Browse content similar to 30/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
Theresa May says she wants to help people who are | :00:40. | :00:41. | |
"just about managing" - so should she reverse | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
George Osborne's cuts to benefits that are supposed to help people | :00:45. | :00:46. | |
Prominent London Imam Shakeel Begg is an extremist speaker, | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
says the High Court, after claims made on this programme. | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
So why is Mr Begg still being allowed to advise the Police? | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
Hillary Clinton fights back over the FBI's renewed investigation | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
into her use of a private email server - is this the boost | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
Donald Trump needed to reignite his chances of winning the White House? | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
The Jungle has gone but now there's a new problem. | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
Kent and Medway said they are full, so what next for the child | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
Now it is just a question of building that runway with the | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
political problems that lie ahead. And haunting the studio | :01:25. | :01:31. | |
on this Halloween weekend, the most terrifying political | :01:32. | :01:33. | |
panel in the business - Tim 'Ghost' Shipman, | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
'Eerie' Isabel Oakeshott and First this morning, two | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
new models of car to be built, securing 7,000 jobs at the car plant | :01:40. | :01:47. | |
in Sunderland and a further 28, 00 The news from Nissan on Thursday | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
was seized on by Leave campaigners as evidence that the British | :01:51. | :01:57. | |
economy is in rude health This morning, the Business | :01:58. | :01:59. | |
Secretary, Greg Clark, was asked what assurances were given | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
to the Japanese firm's bosses Well, it's in no-one's the interest | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
for there to be tariff barriers to the continent | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
and vice versa. So, what I said is that our | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
objective would be to ensure that we have continued access to the markets | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
in Europe and vice versa, without tariffs and without | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
bureaucratic impediments. That is how we will approach | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
those negotiations. We're joined now from Newcastle | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
by the Shadow Business Welcome to the programme. Labour has | :02:36. | :02:48. | |
been a bit sceptical about this Nissan decision. Can we begin by | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
making it clear just what a great achievement this is, above all for | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
the workers of Sunderland who have some of the highest productivity in | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
the world, have never been on strike for 30 years, and produce cars of | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
incredible quality. This is their victory, isn't it? Andrew, you are | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
absolutely right. The Nissan plant in Sunderland is among the most | :03:14. | :03:15. | |
productive in the world. The workers of Nissan are amongst the most | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
productive as well. And it's really a victory for them and for the trade | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
unions and the business organisations, and everybody who | :03:28. | :03:29. | |
campaigned to make sure that the government couldn't ignore their | :03:30. | :03:36. | |
future. It's our future. I'm the MP for Newcastle. It makes a huge | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
difference to the region. We are a region that still likes to make | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
things that work. It is a huge part of our advanced manufacturing | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
sector. So it's really something we welcome as well as the job security. | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
I'm glad we have got that on the record from the Labour shadow | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
business secretary. But your Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, claims | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
the government is ignoring manufacturers and cares only about a | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
small banking elite. In what way is safeguarding 30,000 industrial jobs | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
in the North safeguarding a financial elite? As I said, we're | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
really pleased that the campaigning by trade unions and the workforce, | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
and business organisations, meant the government felt they couldn t | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
ignore Nissan workers. Let's also be clear that we want that kind of job | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
security for all of those working in manufacturing and in other sectors | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
as well. And sweetheart deals for one company, no matter how important | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
they are, that does not an industrial strategy make. Why'd you | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
say it is a sweetheart deal? Greg Clark told the BBC this morning that | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
what was assured to Nissan is an assurance he gives to the whole | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
industrial sector? I was really pleased to see Greg Clark felt he | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
had to say something, even though it's sad that we having our | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
industrial strategy, you like, or our approach to Brexit delivered | :05:05. | :05:07. | |
piecemeal to the media rather than to the British people and Nissan, | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
actually. But he want published the letter. He said he has told us what | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
is in the letter and that reassurances given on training, on | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
science and on supporting the supply chain for the automated sector. You | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
must be in favour all -- of all of that? We are in favour of an | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
industrial strategy. Greg Clark unlike Sajid Javid, cannot say | :05:31. | :05:39. | |
industrial strategy. I'm still puzzling to find out what it is you | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
disagree with. Let me put the question. You said the assurances he | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
has given to Nissan are available to the car manufacturing sector in | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
general and indeed to industry in general. What is your problem with | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
that? Two things. Let him publish the letter so we can see that, let | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
him have the transparency he's pretending to offer. But also, we | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
need an industrial strategy that values -- that is values based and | :06:10. | :06:17. | |
joined. He talked about electric cars and supporting green cars. That | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
was in regard to Nissan. At the same time the government has slashed | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
support for other areas of green technology. So what is it? That is | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
not to do with the Nissan deal. Labour implied at some stage there | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
was some financial inducement, some secret bribes, that doesn't seem to | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
be the case. You are not claiming that any more -- any more. Then you | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
claimed it was a sweetheart deal for one company. That turns out not to | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
be the case. What criticism are you left with on this Nissan deal? I | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
would be really surprised if all that Nissan got was the reassurances | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
that Greg Clark is shared with us. He didn't answer the question of | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
what happens if we can't get continued tariff free access to the | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
single market, if we are not within the single market or the Customs | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
Union. Do you really think a negotiator like Nissan, who are very | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
good at negotiating, they would have excepted making this significant | :07:23. | :07:24. | |
investment without some further reassurances? Do you think there is | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
some kind of financial bride and if so what is the evidence? I would | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
like to see the letter published and I would also like to understand what | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
would happen... There are 27 countries which need to agree with | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
the deal we have from Brexit. What will Nissan, how will Nissan remain | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
competitive? How will the automotive industry remain competitive? Greg | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
Clark says he reassured them on that. But how will that be so if we | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
do not get access? We haven't heard anything about that. He talks about | :08:00. | :08:08. | |
reassurances given to Nissan. We need to make -- to know where we're | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
going to make sure Brexit is in the interest of all workers, not only | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
those who work for a Nissan and not only those who can get the attention | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
of Greg Clark. He assured Nissan that Britain would remain a | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
competitive place to do business. That was the main assurance he gave | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
them. He would help with skills and infrastructure and all the rest | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
Since you are -- intend to repeal the trade union laws that have made | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
strikes in Britain largely a thing of the past, and you plan to raise | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
corporation tax, you couldn't give Nissan the same assurance, could | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
you? We could absolutely give Nissan the assurance that we will be, our | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
vision of the future of the UK, is based on having a strong | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
manufacturing sector. Repealing trade union laws? As we have seen at | :08:57. | :09:07. | |
Nissan, the industrial sector is dependent on having highly trained, | :09:08. | :09:15. | |
well skilled workers. -- highly skilled, well-trained. You don't | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
have that by getting -- having an aggressive policy and trade union | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
laws or by slashing corporation tax and not supporting manufacturing | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
investment. Remember, the last government took away the | :09:29. | :09:30. | |
Manufacturing allowances which supported Manufacturing and slashed | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
corporation tax. That is their solution. It is a low tax, low skill | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
economy they want. Thank you. Sorry I had to rush you. | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
I'm grateful for you joining us I'm still struggling to see what is | :09:45. | :09:54. | |
left of Labour's criticism? Yeah, except for this. This was a valid | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
point she just made. What we know for sure is that Greg Clark could | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
say to Nissan, my aim is to get tariff free deal. There is no way he | :10:03. | :10:09. | |
could guarantee that. None of us know that. I don't think that was | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
enough. I think clearly there was a more detailed package involving | :10:14. | :10:20. | |
training and other things. He has acknowledged this, albeit we do not | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
know the precise mechanism. What I think is interesting about this is | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
if you reverse what happened this week, at a time when the government | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
says Britain is open for business and it is going to have an | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
industrial strategy, so far it is a bit vaguely defined. Nissan hadn't | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
made this commitment. Imagine what would have happened? It is an | :10:40. | :10:42. | |
impossible scenario. The government seems to me was obliged to make sure | :10:43. | :10:49. | |
this didn't happen. Let's not forget Nissan has invested hundreds of | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
millions in the north-east. It has been a huge success story. When I | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
spoke to workers from Nissan, they were so proud because they went to | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
Japan to teach the Japanese had to be more productive. The idea that | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
Nissan was just going to walk away from this given its track record, | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
its importance, wasn't really credible. The government had some | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
bargaining chips. Absolutely, of course they weren't going to walk | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
away. The majority of people in the area in which Nissan is braced - | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
based, voted for Brexit. Nissan knows it is in a powerful position | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
because it is an emotive sector Clearly the government didn't want | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
to have some big showdown. I honestly don't think this is a | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
smoking gun. The Labour Shadow minister really struggled to | :11:39. | :11:40. | |
articulate what exactly she thinks the government is hiding. I think | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
the reassurances were given were pretty anodyne, really. They were | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
anodyne and general. And what Greg Clark was setting out was an | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
objective and he made the right noises, and Nissan exercised its | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
right to sabre rattle. It does have a history of doing that. The one | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
thing that would now be clear given Greg Clark's performance this | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
morning on the BBC, is that if we were to discover some kind of | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
financial incentive directly linked to this investment, not more for | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
skills or infrastructure, that is fine, but some direct financial | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
investment, compensation for tariffs, which would be illegal | :12:19. | :12:20. | |
under World Trade Organisation rules, what you might call a | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
financial bride, the sect -- the business Secretary's position would | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
be untenable? He would be in a very difficult position indeed. Just | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
released the letter. There is nothing to hide. Put it out there. | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
The most revealing thing is that people are getting wildly excited | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
about the fact Greg Clark announced Britain's negotiating position would | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
be that we would like tariff free trade with Europe. This is regarded | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
as an insight into what this comment is doing and it says a great deal | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
about how little we have been told in Parliament and the media about | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
what they are up. Do you think it is exciting we are going for tariff | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
free trade? We're easily excited these days. We don't know. This is | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
where these things are at such a tentative phase. We don't know how | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
the rest of the European Union is going to respond to Britain's | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
negotiating hand. We know Britain once the best of everything, please. | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
It is a starting point. But that is not how it is going to end up. We | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
are getting wider than that. We have will have to see. | :13:31. | :13:32. | |
Now, Universal Credit, a single payment made to welfare | :13:33. | :13:34. | |
claimants that would roll together a plethora of benefits whilst | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
encouraging people into work by making work pay. | :13:38. | :13:39. | |
But have cuts to the flagship welfare scheme reduced work | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
incentives and hit the incomes of the least well-off? | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
Well, some of the government's own MPs think so, and, | :13:48. | :13:49. | |
as Mark Lobel reports, want the cuts reversed. | :13:50. | :13:56. | |
Theresa May says she wants a country that works | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
for everyone, that's on the side of ordinary, working people. | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
It means never writing off people who can work and consigning them | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
to a life on benefits, but giving them the chance to go out | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
and earn a living and to enjoy the dignity that comes | :14:10. | :14:12. | |
But now some in her party are worried that the low earners | :14:13. | :14:19. | |
will be hit by changes to Universal Credit benefit system | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
originally set up to encourage more people into work. | :14:24. | :14:25. | |
We also need to focus tax credits and Universal Credit | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
Concern centred on the Government's decision in the July 2015 budget | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
to find ?3 billion worth of savings from the Universal Credit bill. | :14:36. | :14:44. | |
Conservative MP Heidi Allen is working on a campaign to get MPs | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
in her party to urge the Prime Minister to think again. | :14:48. | :14:54. | |
I want her to understand for herself what the outcomes might | :14:55. | :14:57. | |
be if we press ahead with the Universal Credit, | :14:58. | :14:59. | |
Do you think Theresa May, right now, understands what you understand | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
To be fair, unless you really get into the detail, | :15:04. | :15:06. | |
and I have through my work on the Work and Pensions | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
Select Committee, I don't think anybody does. | :15:10. | :15:11. | |
Independent economic analysts at the IFS agree with Heidi Alan | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
that cuts to Universal Credit weaken incentives to work. | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
One of the key parts of the Universal Credit system | :15:22. | :15:23. | |
That is how much you can earn before your credit | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
As the Government has sought to save money, | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
both under the Coalition and now they Conservative Government, | :15:31. | :15:32. | |
both under the Coalition and now the Conservative Government, | :15:33. | :15:34. | |
that work allowance has been cut, time and time again. | :15:35. | :15:36. | |
The biggest cuts happened in the summer budget of 2015. | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
That basically reduces the amount of earnings you get to keep | :15:40. | :15:42. | |
It weakens the incentive people have to move into work. | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
What do changes to the Universal Credit system mean? | :15:46. | :15:47. | |
The Resolution Foundation think tank has crunched the numbers. | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
If you compare what would have happened before the July 2015 summer | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
budget to what will happen by 2 20, even if you take into account gains | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
in the National Living Wage and income tax cuts, | :15:59. | :15:59. | |
recipients will be hit by annual deductions. | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
Couples and parents would receive, on average, ?1000 less. | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
A dual-earning couple with two children under four, | :16:09. | :16:10. | |
with one partner working full-time on ?10.50 an hour and the other | :16:11. | :16:13. | |
working part-time on the minimum wage for around 20 | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
hours a week, they would receive ?1800 less. | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
Hit most by the changes would be a single parent | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
with a child under four, working full-time | :16:27. | :16:27. | |
I think, if I'm honest, it is unrealistic, given | :16:28. | :16:41. | |
the economic climate, to expect everything to be reversed. | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
What I would like to see is an increase in the work | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
allowances to those people who will be hardest hit. | :16:51. | :16:53. | |
That is single parents and second earners hoping to return to work, | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
because they are the people we need to absolutely make | :16:57. | :16:58. | |
The Sunday Politics understands that about 15 to 20 Conservative MPs | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
are pushing for changes ahead of the Autumn Statement. | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
A former cabinet minister told us that they believed further impact | :17:08. | :17:10. | |
analysis should be done to find out if any mitigation measures | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
Former Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith, an architect | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
of the system, now says the cuts should be reversed. | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
But his former department has told us that it has no plans to revisit | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
the work allowance changes announced in the budget last year. | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
What I would say to Heidi Allen and IDS, they got it right the first | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
time and they should stick to the vote they cast last year | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
because these reforms actually do make sense. | :17:41. | :17:41. | |
What interests me is the fact we are trying to move people | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
off welfare into work, we are raising the wages people | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
earn by massively increasing the minimum wage and this | :17:48. | :17:49. | |
People are coming off welfare and into work. | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
Campaigners are pushing for savings to come from other areas to relieve | :17:54. | :17:55. | |
The other thing we have to start looking at is the triple | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
Financially it has been a great policy, and it was absolutely right | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
that we lifted pensioners who were significantly behind, | :18:06. | :18:07. | |
for many years, in terms of income levels, but they have | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
I think it is time for us to look at that policy again, | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
because is costing us an awful lot of money. | :18:16. | :18:17. | |
With just over three weeks to wait until the Conservative leadership's | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
new economic plan is unveiled in the Autumn Statement, | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
its top team is under pressure from within its own ranks to use it | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
And I'm joined now by former Work and Pensions Secretary, | :18:28. | :18:36. | |
Welcome back to the programme. Theresa May said she is on the side | :18:37. | :18:44. | |
of the just managing, the working poor. But they are about to be hit | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
from all sides. Their modest living standards are going to be squeezed | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
as inflation overtakes pay rises, they will be further squeezed | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
because top-up benefits in work are frozen. Incentives to work are going | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
to be reduced by the cuts in universal benefits. So much for | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
being on the side of those just managing? Theresa was right to focus | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
on this group. The definition has to be the bottom half, in economic | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
terms, of the social structure. It doesn't look good for them? This is | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
the point I am making, it is an opportunity to put some of this | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
right. One of the reasons I resigned in March is because I felt the | :19:26. | :19:27. | |
direction of travel we had been going in had been to take far too | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
much money out of that group of people when there are other areas | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
which, if you need to make some of those savings, you can. The key bit | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
is that the group needs to be helped through into work and encouraged to | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
stay in work. There was a report done with the IFS, when we were | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
there, at Universal Credit. It said Universal Credit rolled out, as it | :19:47. | :19:53. | |
should have been before the cuts, people would be much more likely to | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
stay in work longer and earn more money. It is a net positive, but | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
that is now called into question. Let's unpick some of the detail but | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
first, do you accept the words of David Willets? It says on the basis | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
of the things I read out to you that the just managing face a significant | :20:09. | :20:15. | |
and painful cut in real terms if we continue on the way we are going. I | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
do, in essence. That is the reason why I resigned. I felt Heidi raised | :20:21. | :20:29. | |
that issue as well, that we got the balance wrong. It is right that | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
pensioners get to a certain point, when they are on a level par, doing | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
the right thing over five years Staying with that process has cost | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
us ?18 billion extra this year, in total. It will go on costing another | :20:42. | :20:50. | |
5 billion. Then there is the issue of tax allowances. I want to remind | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
you and viewers what David Cameron told the Conservative conference in | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
2009. If you are a single mother with two children, earning ?150 a | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
week, the withdrawal of your benefits and the additional taxes | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
that you pay me on that for every extra you earn, you keep just 4p. | :21:11. | :21:18. | |
What kind of incentive is that? 30 years ago, this party won and | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
election fighting against 98% tax rates for the Rex richest. I want us | :21:25. | :21:33. | |
today to show even more anger about 96% tax rates for the very poorest | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
in our country. Real anger, and effective rate of over 90%. | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
Universal Credit reduces that. Some will still face, as they lose | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
benefits and pay tax, a marginal rate of over 75%. That is still too | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
high? Yes, it is the collision between those going into work at the | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
moment they start paying tax. A racial Universal Credit is set at | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
65%. You can call that the base marginal tax rate. 1.2 million will | :22:03. | :22:09. | |
face 75%? That is the point about why the allowances are so important. | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
The point about the allowances which viewers might not fully understand | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
is that it was set, as part of Universal Credit, to allow you to | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
get certain people, with certain difficulties, as they cross into | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
work, to retain more benefit before it is tapered away as they go up in | :22:24. | :22:30. | |
hours. A lone parent, who might have various issues, you want her to have | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
a bigger incentive than a single person that does not have the same | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
commitments. It is structured so that somebody who has difficulty | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
going to work, they all have slightly different rates. What | :22:42. | :22:44. | |
happened is that last year a decision was taken to reduce tax | :22:45. | :22:47. | |
credits, and, on the back of that, to reduce allowances. I believe | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
given everything that happened now, we need to restore that to the point | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
where it helps those people crossing over. You say a decision was taken, | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
it was a decision by the former Chancellor George Osborne in the | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
summer budget. Other decisions were taken in successive Budgets to raise | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
the Universal Credit budget, which resulted in the disincentive being | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
higher than many people wanted. Do you accept that has been the | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
consequence of his decisions? I was in the Government, we take | :23:19. | :23:20. | |
collective responsibility. I argued this was not the right way to go, | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
but when you are in you have to stay with it if you lose that argument. | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
There was another attempt before the spending review last year to | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
increase the taper, so the marginal rate would have gone up. I managed | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
to stop that. I'm Sibley saying what we made as a decision last | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
year, given the circumstances and given that the net effect of all of | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
that, I think it is time for the Government to ask the question, if | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
we are in this to help that group of people, Universal Credit is | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
singularly the most powerful tool. One of the Argentine aid in the | :23:54. | :23:55. | |
paper published on Thursday, we are set going on doing two more races of | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
the tax threshold, taking more people out of tax. That has a | :24:02. | :24:08. | |
diminishing effect on the bottom section. Only 25p in that tax rate | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
will help any of those. Most of it goes to middle income? You and I | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
will benefit more from that. With Universal Credit, every pound you | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
put into that will go to the bottom five tenths. That is why I designed | :24:23. | :24:25. | |
it like that. He pressed the button and immediately start to changed | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
circumstances. Should the cuts in Universal Credit that Mr Osborne | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
introduced, against your argument, should they be reversed? I believe | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
so. I believe you can do it even if there is concern about spending I | :24:40. | :24:42. | |
don't believe you need to go through with the continuing raise the tax | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
threshold. Cost is dependent on inflation, but give or take. It is | :24:47. | :24:54. | |
in the Tory manifesto? Has more than doubled. What is in the manifesto, | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
and Lasse Prime Minister made this clear in conference, we want to | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
improve the life chances of people. Today's announcement on the Green | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
paper is what I wrote over the last two and a half years. Big changes | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
necessary to how we deal with sickness benefit. That can now be | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
done because of Universal Credit, because people can go back to work | :25:17. | :25:19. | |
and it tapers away their benefits. It is the most powerful tool to sort | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
our people that live in poverty Universal Credit. We need to make | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
sure it lands positively. If Mr Osborne's cuts were reversed, what | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
you and some of your backbench Tory colleagues want to do, how would | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
that improve the incentives of the working poor, as they try to get on | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
in life? They have to pay more tax, they lose some benefits. How would | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
it improve it? Would many still face a 75% rate? The key question is | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
first and foremost, as people move through income to the point where | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
they are getting taxed, that group will be enormously benefited by the | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
re-emergence of these allowances at the right level. That is what the | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
IFS have said, that is what the Resolution Foundation are saying, | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
and the Centre For Social Justice is saying. You have to get that group, | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
because they are most likely to be drifting into poverty and less | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
incomes are right. Would it help those who face a 75% margin? We | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
don't face that. Exactly right. People much poorer than us do. I | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
would love to get the marginal rate down to testify percent, and lower,. | :26:29. | :26:37. | |
-- down to 65%. It is a balance of how you spend the money. I would | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
prefer to do that rather than necessarily go ahead with threshold | :26:41. | :26:48. | |
razors. I think the coronation of the marginal reduction of 65%, | :26:49. | :26:54. | |
getting it down to 60%, plus more allowances, will allow Universal | :26:55. | :26:56. | |
Credit to get to the group that is going to be, and the report written | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
by the IFS and ourselves, it shows it is going to be the most dynamic | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
and direct ability of a Government to be able to influence the way that | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
people improve their incomes in the bottom five deciles. Would you take | :27:09. | :27:15. | |
on extra work if you knew you were going to lose 75% of it? Even 6 %? | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
This has been my argument all along. Universal Credit can help that | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
enormously. One point that goes missing, 70% of the bottom five | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
deciles will be on Universal Credit. Whatever change you make to | :27:32. | :27:33. | |
Universal Credit has a dramatic and immediate effect I am arguing, | :27:34. | :27:40. | |
genuinely, it is time to rethink this. The Prime Minister wants to | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
make this a priority. I am completely with her on this. I think | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
she made a really good start. To deliver this, we need to... You have | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
a lot of work to do to deliver it. Because it is a manifesto | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
commitment, or because they want to do it, stopping increasing the | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
personal allowances are not acceptable, what about bringing to | :28:03. | :28:04. | |
an end, by the end of the parliament, the pension triple lock | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
that pensioners enjoy to improve and put more money to the working poor? | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
What about that? Well, you are absolutely right that there is now | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
the danger, I think, of a mess balance between the generations | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
Quite rightly at the beginning, when we came in, we have a commitment as | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
a Conservative Party in a manifesto to get pensions back onto earnings. | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
It was moved to a triple lock that guaranteed a minimum. What about | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
ending up now? I understand it is a promise through the Parliament, but | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
after 2020? I am in favour of getting it back to innings and | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
allowing it to rise at reasonable levels. Moving from earnings to the | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
triple lock has cost ?18 billion this year. Here was a high, under | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
pressure, as the Government was scratching around to pay more money | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
out of working age areas, when the budget was almost out of control on | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
the pension side. I'm in favour of helping pensioners, but now they are | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
up to a reasonable level, at a steady rate, that can be afforded by | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
Government, which takes the pressure off, working age people have to pay | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
for that. In years to come, time to end the triple lock | :29:16. | :29:26. | |
and use the savings to help these people we have been talking about? | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
As part of a load of packages, yes. It would also help with the | :29:32. | :29:32. | |
intergenerational fairness argument. Thank you for being with us. | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
Now, a prominent London Imam called Shakeel Begg - | :29:37. | :29:38. | |
who is Chief Imam the Lewisham Islamic Centre - is an extremist. | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
That was the verdict of the judge in a libel action that Mr Begg took | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
against the BBC, after we described him as an Islamic extremist | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
Mr Begg had complained about a short segment in an interview in November | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
2013 with Farooq Murad, the then head of the Muslim Council | :29:52. | :29:54. | |
of Britain, an organisation which claims to represent British | :29:55. | :29:56. | |
In that interview, we described Mr Begg as an extremist speaker | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
who had hailed jihad is the greatest of deeds. | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
From his base of the Lewisham Islamic Centre, Mr Begg has been | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
involved in a number of community organisations, including | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
the Police Independent Advisory Group in Lewisham, | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
Lewisham Council's Advisory Council on Religious Education | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
and as a volunteer chaplain at Lewisham Hospital. | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
But in his judgment, Mr Justice Haddon-Cave called | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
Mr Begg a Jekyll and Hyde character - a trusted figure in his local | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
community, but when talking to predominantly Muslim audiences | :30:32. | :30:34. | |
he shed the cloak of respectability and revealed the horns of extremism. | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
The judge cited one speech made by Mr Begg at a rally | :30:40. | :30:42. | |
outside Belmarsh Prisonm- the high security prison that houses | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
terrorists - as particularly sinister. | :30:46. | :30:48. | |
The judge said the imam was expressing admiration and praise | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
Following Friday's judgment, the hospital trust have told us that | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
Mr Begg's status as a voluntary chaplain has been terminated. | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
We have been told by Lewisham Council he is no longer | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
on their Religious Education Committee. | :31:06. | :31:06. | |
The Metropolitan Police have confirmed that | :31:07. | :31:08. | |
Mr Begg remains a member of their Independent Advisory Group | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
in Lewisham, as well as the borough's faith group. | :31:14. | :31:23. | |
I am joined by Haras Rafiq, chief executive of the Quilliam | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
Foundation. Welcome to the programme. I have here in my hand a | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
statement from the trustees of the Lewisham Islamic Centre. They reject | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
the judge's ruling as fanciful and say they are unequivocal and | :31:41. | :31:42. | |
unwavering in their support of Shakeel Begg as their head imam | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
What do you make of that? To be honest, it doesn't surprise me. At | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
the end of the day he is only the imam of that mosque because he | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
belongs to the same theological fundamentalist views that the mosque | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
would portray. If they were to say he was an extremist, they would be | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
saying in fact that they have allowed extremist preaching and | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
extremist theology within their walls. I think this is a very | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
important decision and a very important judgment by the judge | :32:17. | :32:23. | |
First of all, these people like to operate in a linear, under a veneer | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
of respectability. When that veneer is taken away, there are a number of | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
things that can happen. First of all, the BBC did very well to stand | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
by their guns and say, we're not going to be intimidated by somebody | :32:37. | :32:43. | |
who is threatening to taking -- to take us to court for potential | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
libel. Many other media companies have done that in the past and | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
people have capitulated. Also, this has exposed him. Legally now, here's | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
some deal can be classified as an extremist preacher, somebody who | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
promotes religious violence. I think the mosque really needs to take a | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
step back and say, how we part of the problem that we are facing | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
within society? Or are we going to be part of the solution? It really | :33:10. | :33:18. | |
concerns me. The High Court judge says that Mr Begg's speeches were | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
consistent with an extremist Salafist is the most worldview. What | :33:24. | :33:30. | |
is Salafist is and how widespread is it in UK mosques? -- mosque. It | :33:31. | :33:40. | |
comes from the Middle East. It is from Saudi Arabia. The enemy for | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
them was the old colonial Ottoman Empire. There is the quiet Salafist | :33:44. | :33:52. | |
to get some with their lives, lives outside society. There is a | :33:53. | :33:54. | |
revolutionary who tries to convert other people to their worldview And | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
then there is the Salafist jihad ease. People like Islamic State etc. | :33:59. | :34:06. | |
We have seen of increased in recent decades because of money that has, | :34:07. | :34:08. | |
growing from the Middle East. When that is mixed with a political | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
ideology, it becomes potent. Do we have a political -- particular | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
problem in Britain with this in our mosques? Absolutely. Without the | :34:19. | :34:24. | |
theology that says hate the other, hate other Muslims, that | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
excommunicate other people, that says it is OK to fight and is good | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
to fight when you have got an enemy, we wouldn't really have a jihadi | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
problem. Really that is something we have to tackle. The number of | :34:37. | :34:44. | |
mosques and institutions supporting Salafist and Islam is has been on | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
the increase. Do we have a problem with what the judge called Jekyll | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
and Hyde characters who hide their extremism except when they are | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
speaking to specific groups? Absolutely. One of the things we | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
have focused on in the past, a number of hate preachers now in | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
prison, people like Anjem Choudary, and everybody focused on them. But | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
there is a range of people operating under that level. People who will | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
show one face to the community because they actually need that for | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
a respectability. They need that for a legitimacy. They need that to | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
operate. When they are behind closed doors and talking to their | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
constitution, that is when you will see the real face of what these | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
people believe. It is an increasing phenomenon. We are seeing it more. | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
And we're going to carry on seeing it. Not just has the Lewisham mosque | :35:39. | :35:45. | |
stuck by him, but given the clarity of the judge's ruling, are you | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
surprised that the Metropolitan police would wish to continue with | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
Mr Begg as an adviser? I'm absolutely shocked that that | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
decision. What Uzzy going to do Advise them on how to deal with | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
extremist preachers and promote religiously motivated violence? I | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
don't know what he's going to advise them on. Because we now have a judge | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
that has ruled against him and actually classified him as an | :36:13. | :36:14. | |
extremist and somebody who promotes religious violence, we actually have | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
a possibility for the CPS to actually prosecute him. There is a | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
law that has been in place since 2005 called religiously motivated | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
violence. If he has been classified as somebody who promotes this, there | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
is a potential for the CPS to prosecute. I want to called into | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
question other organisations, interfaith organisations, other | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
Muslims groups, who say they want to fight extremism, I call on them to | :36:41. | :36:47. | |
say, this guy is an extremist preacher, we should cut our ties | :36:48. | :36:56. | |
from him. This was a very high risk strategy by the BBC. The exposure | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
could have been over ?1.5 million of licence payers money. Will this make | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
it more difficult for Jekyll and Hyde characters to behave as Mr Begg | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
has behaved? Absolutely. It will do. One of the things they will now have | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
to make sure is that they are a lot more careful. Careful with what they | :37:17. | :37:23. | |
say to their own constituency. It won't solve the theological problem. | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
But it will actually stop other people from operating in this manner | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
and allow other media organisations to have the confidence to expose | :37:33. | :37:35. | |
them when they do. Haras Rafiq, thank you for joining us. | :37:36. | :37:38. | |
It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :37:39. | :37:40. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
Hello, I'm Julia George. the Week Ahead. | :37:44. | :37:56. | |
This is the Sunday Politics in the south-east. | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
Coming up later: Our farmers get ?3 billion | :38:01. | :38:08. | |
After 2020, no cash is guar`nteed, so will Brexit mean the end | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
Joining us in the studio to talk about that and our other stories | :38:13. | :38:23. | |
are Caroline Lucas, the Green MP for Brighton P`vilion, | :38:24. | :38:25. | |
and also the co-leader of the party Maria Caulfield, | :38:26. | :38:27. | |
Now, we've all seen the images of fires burning as the French | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
authorities demolished the refugee camp known as the Jungle. | :38:34. | :38:35. | |
The fate of hundreds of unaccompanied children | :38:36. | :38:37. | |
Now the chaos of Calais seels to have crossed the Channel, | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
with some local councils saxing they won't be able to cope with | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
As the camp is cleared in C`lais on this side of the channel, | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
there are concerns in Kent about the council's ability | :38:52. | :38:53. | |
to support any more young, unaccompanied children. | :38:54. | :38:55. | |
The council leader said resources are already at breaking point. | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
The impact of carrying some 140 young, unaccompanied minors | :39:01. | :39:02. | |
Not just on KCC's services, but on health services, | :39:03. | :39:09. | |
I think it's unreasonable for the Home Office to expect | :39:10. | :39:16. | |
Kent County Council and the ratepayers of Kent to go | :39:17. | :39:18. | |
on supporting that number of young people. | :39:19. | :39:21. | |
The national transfer schemd for unaccompanied child migrants | :39:22. | :39:23. | |
was introduced by Government in July to ease the pressure | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
It is estimated that up to 76 councils out of 152 across Dngland | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
Here in the south-east, Brighton and Hove City Council | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
is currently caring for 41 children, including some under | :39:37. | :39:38. | |
East Sussex is looking after 17 children and has | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
West Sussex has 81 children and has also opted into the national scheme. | :39:44. | :39:51. | |
Medway Council is caring for just three children, | :39:52. | :39:53. | |
it has chosen not to take p`rt in the national transfer scheme | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
The Local Government Associ`tion said more needs to be done to help | :39:58. | :39:59. | |
fund the cost to councils and to encourage local | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
The Home Secretary was pressed on the scheme in the Commons. | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
We are fortunate that sufficient local authorities have come | :40:07. | :40:08. | |
We will still need more over the next few weeks. | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
So, if any members of Parli`ment would like to volunteer thehr local | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
authorities or urge them to do so, they would be most welcome. | :40:20. | :40:22. | |
Most authorities are aware of the cost and the rate | :40:23. | :40:24. | |
the Government pays, and I hope they will considdr that | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
adequate compensation in order to volunteer to take the chhldren. | :40:28. | :40:29. | |
So, with local councils alrdady under financial pressures, | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
will others step forward to take in children yet to arrive? | :40:36. | :40:37. | |
Joining us now from Chatham is Alan Jarrett. | :40:38. | :40:39. | |
Alan is the Conservative leader of Medway Council. | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
Alan Jarrett, you are only looking after three unaccompanied asylum | :40:44. | :40:45. | |
seeker children in the Medw`y towns at the moment. | :40:46. | :40:47. | |
You are not signed up to the voluntary | :40:48. | :40:49. | |
Well, we are not actually looking after three, | :40:50. | :40:57. | |
We have actually got 110 of Kent's allocation here in Medway. | :40:58. | :41:05. | |
We have actually got 113 whhch, with the exception of Kent, | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
is significantly more than `ny of the others on your clip. | :41:09. | :41:21. | |
Yes, but Kent is entirely responsible for funding those | :41:22. | :41:23. | |
children and three was the figure at your authority gave us | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
I'm telling you what the situation is. | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
We have 113 unaccompanied asylum seeker children there | :41:31. | :41:32. | |
in Medway and it's not just a question of cost, | :41:33. | :41:34. | |
What that does is use up our capacity here in Medway, | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
so we have to place our own looked after children outside of Mddway | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
How many children have you had to place outside of Medway | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
As of today, 179 at a cost of anything up to ?1700 | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
They have been in various counties and various areas around Medway | :41:52. | :42:09. | |
Wherever we can find placement for them. | :42:10. | :42:11. | |
Kent, we are talking about venturing out of county and, naturallx, | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
they were quoting you, which really isn't that far | :42:17. | :42:18. | |
Some are actually in Kent, outside of Medway. | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
Medway is a unitary, as you would know. | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
It's wherever we can find a location for them. | :42:31. | :42:32. | |
As close as possible, quite obviously. | :42:33. | :42:33. | |
Let's talk about the cost, because this, clearly, | :42:34. | :42:35. | |
has been one of the arguments that you, personally, have | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
made about looking after asylum seeking children. | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
You are only currently funding three. | :42:42. | :42:42. | |
To be clear, you have more but you are funding the care of thrde. | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
What are your concerns about the cost, if you | :42:47. | :42:48. | |
Quite simply, the impact it has on the wider budget. | :42:49. | :42:56. | |
We have 275,000 people here in Medway, we have large | :42:57. | :42:58. | |
numbers of looked after children, over 400. | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
We have the out of area placements that I spoke to you about. | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
In common with all upper tidr authorities, we have | :43:11. | :43:12. | |
You make it sound as though the Government isn't making any | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
contribution to the care of the children. | :43:18. | :43:18. | |
In fact, they have just increased it by 20%. | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
The money that is given to local authorities, | :43:23. | :43:24. | |
like yours, and it does seel striking that you are the only | :43:25. | :43:27. | |
council in the south-east that isn't prepared to take national transfer | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
transfer children and you, by contrast to a council | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
like Brighton and Hove, which is a similar sized | :43:37. | :43:39. | |
at the moment and are taking more and you have three. | :43:40. | :43:42. | |
Talk me through the exact costs that you are worried about. | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
What is the cost of foster care, for instance? | :43:46. | :43:47. | |
Because that one of the big costs, isn't it? | :43:48. | :43:49. | |
Well, it's anything up to ?465 per child in Medway. | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
You have to bear in mind, you use Brighton as a comparison | :43:54. | :43:56. | |
but you have to bear in mind that Brighton receives substanti`lly more | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
than Medway in terms of revenue support grant. | :44:00. | :44:01. | |
The fact that we have lost ?40 million in Government grants. | :44:02. | :44:09. | |
While the Government is offdring a small amount with one hand, | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
it's taking away huge quanthties with the other. | :44:13. | :44:14. | |
Well, you talk about offering a small amount of money. | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
I have done the sums, based on the most expensive foster | :44:19. | :44:20. | |
care package you offer to pdople in the Medway towns, | :44:21. | :44:23. | |
which comes to a total of ?22,600 per year. | :44:24. | :44:25. | |
The Government is offering you ?41,600 per year. | :44:26. | :44:33. | |
Where is the problem here, in terms of the sums? | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
You're not listening to me, are you, Julie? | :44:37. | :44:38. | |
We have 113 unaccompanied asylum seekers here in Medway, | :44:39. | :44:48. | |
you have talked about areas you talked about in your clhp, | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
and that is counties, large counties who are taking | :44:52. | :44:53. | |
It's not entirely cost, its internal capacity within Medway. | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
You were the one who was telling me there was a problem with costs. | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
Let's bring in the guests in the studio, Alan, do stay whth us. | :45:03. | :45:10. | |
Alan Jarrett has a point, he has a limited amount of loney | :45:11. | :45:16. | |
and his chief priority, Caroline Lucas, is to | :45:17. | :45:18. | |
of the Medway towns, includhng looked after children there. | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
So he is telling us he can't, at the moment, take in any | :45:24. | :45:26. | |
Well, I don't know the situ`tion in Medway very well. | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
What I can say is that I agree that we need more finances overall. | :45:30. | :45:32. | |
We do need more finances from Government but, | :45:33. | :45:38. | |
when you compare what Medwax is doing, and that is just with | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
say, the county next door, you've got over 700 looked | :45:43. | :45:44. | |
We need more councils stepping up to the plate. | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
60 years ago, when it was thme of the Second World War, | :45:50. | :45:52. | |
our grandparents, together with the British Government, | :45:53. | :45:53. | |
were responsible for taking 10, 00 children then from the Nazis. | :45:54. | :45:56. | |
They stepped up to the platd because there was a crisis. | :45:57. | :45:58. | |
Although I have sympathy with the issue around the ftnding, | :45:59. | :46:12. | |
we do need to press the Govdrnment around the funding, it seems | :46:13. | :46:14. | |
to me that there has to be more ambition, | :46:15. | :46:21. | |
more courage, really, from councils right across this | :46:22. | :46:23. | |
country to make sure that we are stepping up to the plate | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
to help people who are absolutely desperate right now. | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
Maria Caulfield, within the immigration act that was voted | :46:30. | :46:32. | |
on this year, there is the capacity to make it mandatory. | :46:33. | :46:34. | |
So, people like Alan Jarrett would not be given a choice, | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
he would be forced to take ` number of unaccompanied asylum | :46:38. | :46:39. | |
Should it be made that way, to make it fair, not just | :46:40. | :46:55. | |
for unaccompanied children but also for communities around the country? | :46:56. | :46:58. | |
I think it's something we do need to look at but, if you take may | :46:59. | :47:01. | |
county, for example, East Sussex, a few weeks ago, | :47:02. | :47:03. | |
they didn't have any childrdn and now they are rapidly taking | :47:04. | :47:06. | |
children and their figures are actually a bit like Alan's | :47:07. | :47:08. | |
in that they don't reflect the true number because they are takhng | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
They are taking on a lot more children than the figures stggest. | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
It isn't fair on councils in counties like Kent, | :47:17. | :47:18. | |
It's not fair that Kent takd a quarter of all the childrdn. | :47:19. | :47:25. | |
That's not fair on the county, but it's also not fair | :47:26. | :47:27. | |
on the children because thex need quite a lot of input, | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
in terms of counselling, hotsing, schooling and that needs to be | :47:31. | :47:32. | |
spread out so they get the best welcome possible. | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
You seem to have had a change of heart on the unaccompanidd | :47:36. | :47:44. | |
Back in the spring, in justifying your vote surrounding | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
unaccompanied refugee children being brought to this country | :47:48. | :47:49. | |
from Europe, from Calais and from the rest of Europe, | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
you said, "Although I fully understand the situation in Europe | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
are refugees and that it's far from ideal, it should be relembered | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
Hang on, let me just make the point that, on the template to thd, | :48:03. | :48:09. | |
you tweeted, "Very pleased to be any chamber as David Burrows MP asks | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
the Home Secretary to fast-track child refugees | :48:13. | :48:14. | |
The reason for that is, although I voted against the original Dubs | :48:15. | :48:20. | |
Amendment, that was just about the Calais children. | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
The Dubs Amendment that we finally voted for, which was on the 9th | :48:26. | :48:28. | |
of May this year, included taking children from other camps, | :48:29. | :48:30. | |
I met with Yazidi children who didn't make it to Calais | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
murdered, they were tortured and raped themselves. | :48:37. | :48:38. | |
It should be that we take both, not just children from Calahs. | :48:39. | :48:56. | |
When that was in the Dubs alendment, I was very happy to support it. | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
Let's go back to Alan Jarrett for a moment. | :49:01. | :49:03. | |
You heard Paul Carter in our report that the beginning, Alan Jarrett. | :49:04. | :49:06. | |
He's conservative leader of the local authority | :49:07. | :49:08. | |
They are currently looking `fter 746 unaccompanied asylum | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
You must have conversations with Paul. | :49:12. | :49:13. | |
What does he say to you when he points out that you are not | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
there to take any of those children find yourself? | :49:18. | :49:19. | |
The conversations I have a poor very positive. | :49:20. | :49:22. | |
He understands the situation here in Medway, just as much as we do. | :49:23. | :49:34. | |
You have to bear in mind, when you look at the numbers, | :49:35. | :49:37. | |
113 versus 700, Kent is six times larger than Medway. | :49:38. | :49:39. | |
But they are paying for that as well. | :49:40. | :49:41. | |
Sorry to tell over you, but they are paying for that 11 | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
That is right and, because we've got those 113, they are using up | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
our capacity in Medway, which is why we have got 178 out | :49:49. | :49:51. | |
The maths are quite obvious, Julia, aren't they? | :49:52. | :49:54. | |
With the best will in the world we can't do what we can't do. | :49:55. | :49:57. | |
He can't do what he can't do, Caroline. | :49:58. | :49:59. | |
You've been talking about it, particularly the children | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
My point is that while we'rd quibbling hair now, those children | :50:04. | :50:06. | |
are in a desperate situation and I raised it in Parliament just | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
now because we had 40 children last night sleeping under a bridge | :50:11. | :50:12. | |
because there was nowhere else for them to go. | :50:13. | :50:14. | |
We know that when the camps are cleared, many of these | :50:15. | :50:17. | |
They get taken up by traffickers and we don't know | :50:18. | :50:20. | |
This is a real crisis and not the particular financial | :50:21. | :50:32. | |
situation of individual councils, if it is the case that Alan cannot | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
then please be asking the Home Secretary for more help. | :50:36. | :50:46. | |
Ultimately, we have all got to be doing more and I think, | :50:47. | :50:49. | |
certainly, as you say, when you hear a council that | :50:50. | :50:51. | |
has three next door to some that have 746, it has got to be clear | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
that something more has to be done to make it more fair | :50:57. | :50:58. | |
Thank you to Alan Jarrett, thank you very much joining us | :50:59. | :51:02. | |
Now, we all know that agrictlture in the south-east is big business. | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
Nearly ?400 million in 2014, but when we leave the EU, | :51:07. | :51:09. | |
if farming takes a hit, as it currently gets three billion | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
pounds of subsidies, Brexit could mean an end to both. | :51:13. | :51:14. | |
Will we still be able to bux British and preserve the delicate b`lance | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
between farming and nature here in the south-east? | :51:18. | :51:19. | |
Elmlee National Nature Reserve on the Isle of Sheppey | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
is one of England's few surviving wildernesses. | :51:26. | :51:32. | |
Swathes of protected mash l`nd dealing with birds and wildlife | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
Here, conservation and farmhng go hand-in-hand, thanks | :51:37. | :51:39. | |
The only farmers in the UK to run this kind of reserve. | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
It used to be wheat 35 years ago, wall to wall wheat. | :51:44. | :51:55. | |
We changed that from wheat to extensive livestock grazhng. | :51:56. | :51:57. | |
In the referendum, Phil votdd to remain but now he thinks Brexit | :51:58. | :52:00. | |
could be a defining moment for agriculture and the envhronment. | :52:01. | :52:02. | |
I think Brexit is a tremendous opportunity, regardless | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
Let's turn this into a real opportunity to integrate | :52:07. | :52:09. | |
I think it's a once in a lifetime opportunity | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
Farming shapes the landscapd of the south-east. | :52:13. | :52:15. | |
Employing more than 50,000 people and bringing more than ?383 million | :52:16. | :52:18. | |
Critical for food production, it's also linked | :52:19. | :52:27. | |
to nature and farmers receive generous EU subsidies | :52:28. | :52:29. | |
But with a wholesale rethink of farm funding | :52:30. | :52:41. | |
could there be a shift to work large-scale agribushness? | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
What they're going to see, what we will need to see more | :52:47. | :52:49. | |
of is smaller, more mixed f`rms farms that are using a high | :52:50. | :52:52. | |
diversity of crops, mixed rotations, farms that are mixing crops | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
and animals, and all of those things, we have been seen ldss | :52:56. | :52:58. | |
It would be an utter disastdr if, when we go down the free tr`de | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
route, we begin to look at farming subsidies in that context, we finish | :53:03. | :53:05. | |
Nothing would be worse for our environment unfortunately. | :53:06. | :53:08. | |
The Government said it is committed to maintaining current levels | :53:09. | :53:10. | |
With wildlife in steep declhne, it has pledged to restore UK's | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
But with 70% of our environlental laws emanating from the EU, | :53:15. | :53:22. | |
The mood music has not been good around this. | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
When you listen to the Brexht rhetoric about doing away | :53:26. | :53:34. | |
with Brussels "red tape" and you look at how much of that | :53:35. | :53:40. | |
so-called "red tape" is acttally about environmental standards, | :53:41. | :53:42. | |
then we have every good reason to be worried. | :53:43. | :53:44. | |
Away from the farm gate, consumers want fresh, | :53:45. | :53:46. | |
Access to the single market and free movement of labour are front | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
But should food production be more of a priority? | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
We are likely to all be imp`cted by food prices and a varietx | :53:57. | :54:05. | |
There is an essence of, although agriculture and food policy | :54:06. | :54:19. | |
is likely to be left quite late in the discussions, it prob`bly | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
a little bit further forward into the fore. | :54:23. | :54:31. | |
Elmlee feels like worlds aw`y from Westminster and the unwielding | :54:32. | :54:34. | |
Will farming families and precious landscape like this survive | :54:35. | :54:37. | |
without the financial support of Europe and the protection | :54:38. | :54:39. | |
Caroline Lucas, our farmer in the film there, Phil Merrick | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
A once in a lifetime opporttnity, in fact, he said, to integr`te | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
Is there any chance you could share his optimisl? | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
Not overall but I do agree that the common agricultural policy | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
was not a great policy when it came to the environment. | :54:56. | :54:57. | |
And so, it is true that, in theory at least, | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
there is the potential now to be able to get away from some | :55:04. | :55:06. | |
of the industrialised agrictlture that was at the heart of thd common | :55:07. | :55:09. | |
agricultural policy and, in theory, there is a potential | :55:10. | :55:11. | |
to be paying farmers so-called public money for public goods. | :55:12. | :55:13. | |
In other words, paying them for environmental goods | :55:14. | :55:15. | |
I say "in theory" because I agree that, in coming discussions, | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
when it comes to ensuring enough money goes to farmers | :55:20. | :55:22. | |
and that those environmental goods are actually delivered, | :55:23. | :55:24. | |
that could be a real challenge because there are so many other | :55:25. | :55:27. | |
people who want a part of that money as well. | :55:28. | :55:37. | |
Interesting that Andrea Leadsom has said just this week that shd wants | :55:38. | :55:40. | |
to make this the generation that hands over the countryside | :55:41. | :55:47. | |
in a better state to their children than has happened in | :55:48. | :55:49. | |
Rest your voice for a moment, let's go to Maria Caulfield. | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
President of the Wildlife Trust Tony Juniper's point | :55:55. | :55:56. | |
is that he is concerned that we will end up relying less | :55:57. | :56:06. | |
-- more, not less on the production of domestic food and | :56:07. | :56:09. | |
agribusiness and that will lean damage to the rural environlent | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
Do you think your government can prevent that from happening? | :56:13. | :56:15. | |
We do absolutely need to help farmers. | :56:16. | :56:17. | |
I've got a large farming community in my constituencx | :56:18. | :56:19. | |
and they are the gatekeepers of the environment. | :56:20. | :56:22. | |
If we don't have farmers, we don't have farms, | :56:23. | :56:24. | |
What I'm seeing at the moment and why I'm so enthusiastic | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
that we have an opportunity to make life better for farmers | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
is that we see nearly 20 dahry farmers a month leaving the industry | :56:34. | :56:36. | |
In my constituency, I've was farms in Polgate... | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
They are being concreted ovdr. Its developers buying the land, not | :56:41. | :56:47. | |
other farmers. If we do not fix it, we will lose those farmers. But if | :56:48. | :56:54. | |
we go for a hard Brexit, we will be subject to different rules `nd the | :56:55. | :56:57. | |
kind of imports coming in whll be undercutting precisely the kind of | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
food economy that we want to have in this country. I care deeply about | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
our farmers, too. I wanted be able to make a living doing good, | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
sustainable farming, which hs what they want to do. If you produce is | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
coming in from outside the TK, that'll undercut them and it will | :57:14. | :57:18. | |
get worse every go very hard Brexit. Maria, what you be the priority If | :57:19. | :57:25. | |
we can reinvent farming, wh`t is the most important thing? The most | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
important thing is to look the various types of farming and help | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
farmers diversify so they are able to keep their farms Goering. At the | :57:35. | :57:41. | |
moment, if you to farmers about land prices, they have been decilated, | :57:42. | :57:44. | |
either by cheaper imports from places like New Zealand and with the | :57:45. | :57:49. | |
pound when it aside, it was very expensive for them to explore. We | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
need to be able to support farmers when times are tough so thex can | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
keep going. A very quick thought, Caroline Lewis, Google just about | :57:59. | :58:05. | |
the Government funding. Thex have pledged to keep it up for the | :58:06. | :58:11. | |
foreseeable future. Yes, but this is another area of uncertainty that has | :58:12. | :58:14. | |
been caught by Brexit. I fe`r that it is precisely those cheap imports | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
that we talked about that wd will see more of it we get a hard Brexit | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
and that means it'll be harder to maintain environment protection that | :58:23. | :58:24. | |
we want in our countryside `nd that the farmers want as well. Thank you. | :58:25. | :58:30. | |
Kindly other news you may h`ve missed, 60 seconds with Katd Ford. A | :58:31. | :58:40. | |
Sussex clinical commissioning group has installed a special advhser to | :58:41. | :58:43. | |
transport service to perforler. The transport service to perforler. The | :58:44. | :58:49. | |
health Minister Phil Garner on the issue in the Commons. The overseeing | :58:50. | :58:59. | |
of plans in terms of contintity of service will be changed in terms of | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
looking into contract. The chief executive Gatwick Airport s`ys we | :59:04. | :59:07. | |
will look at expanding Gatwhck if the time comes. It follows ` | :59:08. | :59:11. | |
Government and Alison to back a third runway at Heathrow. Wd think | :59:12. | :59:15. | |
we put forward a very strong case for Gatwick expansion that was the | :59:16. | :59:18. | |
best case but one thing is that certain, what we will do is maintain | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
our offer to Government bad Gatwick and a very credible scheme. And | :59:23. | :59:27. | |
gambling Minister Tracey Crouch has launched a review into fixed odds | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
betting machines amid concerns that they could than people. The | :59:32. | :59:32. | |
announcement was welcomed bx the announcement was welcomed bx the | :59:33. | :59:43. | |
leader of the Medway Labour group. The Government has had years to | :59:44. | :59:46. | |
decide on airport expansion. We have 50 seconds to talk about it. Maria, | :59:47. | :59:54. | |
was on the right call? Yes, I am pleased we have made the right | :59:55. | :59:58. | |
decision and I think the expansion will be successful. We have not had | :59:59. | :00:02. | |
an expansion since the Second World War at Heathrow and with passenger | :00:03. | :00:07. | |
percentage is increasing by 5% per year, it is a good decision. | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
Caroline, you did not want `ny, did you? No. I did not want any. They | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
should not have been a question of Heathrow or Gatwick, aged the - it | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
should have been a question should be expand anywhere? The ads should | :00:24. | :00:25. | |
have been no. Look at the P`ris have been no. Look at the P`ris | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
climate talks last year. Maria talks about the expansion of aviation but | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
that is because of leisure, not business. Thank you. And th`nk you | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
from battling a very sore throat. Thank you, Caroline Lucas. Thank | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
you, rear Caulfield. We will be back next week. Season. | :00:43. | :00:56. | |
Barely more than a week now until polling day, | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
and a new revelation rocks the US Presidential election campaign. | :01:02. | :01:11. | |
If it wasn't bizarre enough, it just got more bizarre. | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
The FBI have reopened their investigation into Hillary Clinton's | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
use of private email servers whilst she was Secretary | :01:17. | :01:18. | |
of State, after the discovery of further emails. | :01:19. | :01:26. | |
Though not on her laptop or even the State Department. | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
Donald Trump is saying that it's bigger than Watergate - | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
so could it swing the election in his favour? | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
We spoke to top US pollster, Frank Luntz. | :01:37. | :01:38. | |
The FBI investigation is happening so late in the election process | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
that it would be very difficult to derail a Clinton victory. | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
That said, if there is one thing that could keep Hillary Clinton | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
from the presidency, it's an FBI investigation. | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
But there's still only four states that really matter, Florida, Ohio, | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
Right now, Clinton has beyond the margin of error leads | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
This would have to have a truly significant impact for the election | :02:03. | :02:09. | |
There is a point about a week ago when I was prepared to say that | :02:10. | :02:16. | |
Clinton had a 95% chance of winning this election. | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
Based on what has happened in the last 48 hours, | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
It is still very likely, but I wouldn't bet on it. | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
I thought the 2000 election would be the best election of my lifetime, | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
And then I thought 2008 would be amazing, because we had two | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
challenger candidates and the first African-American President. | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
It is ugly, it's painful, it is as negative as anything | :02:45. | :02:53. | |
The public is angry, the country, overall, is frustrated. | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
But for entertainment value, these candidates probably should | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
have charged us money, because it's better than any movie | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
at ever seen, it's better than any TV show. | :03:10. | :03:11. | |
That was Frank Luntz. He may be right or wrong about Mrs Clinton | :03:12. | :03:23. | |
still having an 80% chance of winning. I would bet on an 80% | :03:24. | :03:32. | |
chance? Yes, absolutely. I spoke to a high-profile American pollster and | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
strategist last night and he took a rather different view to Frank | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
Luntz. He thought, and I think some other high-profile commentators | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
agree, that this is actually much more serious than some people | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
realise. There are an awful lot of undecided voters out there looking | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
for an excuse to vote Trump. They do not like what they see in either | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
candidate. But because this FBI probe is not going to conclude | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
before the election, the question, the doubt over Hillary Clinton, | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
gives them an excuse to back Trump. The thing that will play on the | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
minds of the voters is, could the 100 day honeymoon turning to the 100 | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
day divorce? Which even be impeached? It may give some people | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
an excuse not to vote for Mrs Clinton. It could provide a problem | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
in terms of energising her base The battle ground almost matters more | :04:28. | :04:35. | |
than the polls. Florida and Pennsylvania have been trending to | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
Mrs Clinton. Mr Trump needs to win both. He does not get in without | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
both. He needs both. Just coming up in the latest BBC News, the | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
Washington Post tracking poll, Mrs Clinton is now only one point ahead | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
in the national poll. One point Even given my caveat that the state | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
battles are most important. That is incredibly close? It is. Polls | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
yesterday showed Trump nationally closing of. -- up. There is a clear | :05:10. | :05:17. | |
trend and movement. This has reinforced everything that people | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
who have a problem with Hillary Clinton know about Hillary Clinton. | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
Trump is running this insurgent campaign. We have seen at here with | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
Brexit. If you are running an insurgent campaign, you want to be | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
against the ultimate establishment insider and that is what Hillary | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
Clinton is. I suggested it was bizarre. Fathoming the behaviour of | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
the FBI is interesting as well. This is a separate investigation into a | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
former congressman, Anthony Wiener, who had done all sorts of things. He | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
seemed to be sex text thing a minor. A 15-year-old girl. The FBI | :05:53. | :06:00. | |
investigate. They get his laptop to see what else he has been too. In | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
the course of that, his wife, now separated, the closest adviser to | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
Hillary Clinton, they find on the laptop e-mails involving the Clinton | :06:12. | :06:21. | |
server to her. And yet the FBI cannot, it needs now a separate | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
warrant to access these e-mails It hasn't got that yet. It has got a | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
warrant to do the congressman e-mails. On the basis of not knowing | :06:31. | :06:37. | |
the content, this has happened. Yeah. Who knows? He is a Republican, | :06:38. | :06:45. | |
this guy. Earlier this year he was being praised to the hilt by | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
Democrats. Absolutely. The timing is a nightmare for her. You described | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
the whole sequence. There is nothing definitive to doubt in this | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
sequence. All he is saying is he has discovered more e-mails in effect. | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
They are from the congressman's former wife. On Anthony Wiener's | :07:07. | :07:13. | |
laptop, which apparently she used sometimes. But what that shows is | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
that for all the scrutiny of modern politicians, they cannot escape | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
caricature. And as Tim was just saying, her weakness is perceived to | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
be secretive, elitism and complacency about that elitism. And | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
so just the announcement of a reopening of the investigation so | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
fuels that caricature, you have just revealed a poll giving her a 1% | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
lead. That must be related to what has happened. It is without a shred | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
of evidence that she has done anything wrong. You can see how | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
because people only see things encourage kids, that is deadly | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
serious. -- in caricature. An American friend of mine said we have | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
got our October surprise but we don't know what it is. The FBI must | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
surely come under massive pressure. It did its -- it did this against | :08:13. | :08:19. | |
the Justice Department. The difficulty the FBI had was that this | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
information, for what it's worth, it came to them. Were they not to have | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
said something and it worked to have come out later, they would have been | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
accused of a massive cover-up. They are dammed if they do, dammed if | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
they don't. There is still time for another surprise. And early November | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
surprise. Who knows if there might still be something that comes out on | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
Donald Trump? This is the first election where I can remember we | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
have had two October surprises already. There are is stuff about | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
tapes knocking around about Donald Trump saying racist things. The | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
Clintons have got a lot of friends. It would be a big surprise if we did | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
not see anything else in the next few days. | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
Just when you think it could not get more interesting, it has. There has | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
been plenty in the papers lately about the Ukip leadership saying | :09:12. | :09:12. | |
unpleasant things about each other. But what about Mr Farage himself? | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
What's he up to? Well, on BBC Two tonight we may | :09:17. | :09:18. | |
find out the answer. Well, I'm led to believe | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
she's very experienced. But I don't think Strictly Come | :09:22. | :09:28. | |
Dancing is for me. That is, unless, of course, | :09:29. | :09:30. | |
you fancy popping a cheeky zero No, I don't think Strictly | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
Come Dancing is for me. Well, you tell Mr Balls he has just | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
lost your programme one viewer. I might have nothing to do these | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
days but, realistically, Well, that wasn't Nigel Farage. It | :09:47. | :10:08. | |
is a BBC comedy on tonight. Nigel Farage gets his life back. A number | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
of runners and riders. Let's come straight down to it. Who would be | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
the next leader of Ukip? Probably Paul Nuttall. He is the favourite. | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
The one who has the backing, not very enthusiastic backing, is Rahim | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
Cassandra. And also Aaron Banks a big donor. The best of a rather weak | :10:30. | :10:40. | |
lot. I think Paul Nuttall should squeak through. I interviewed all | :10:41. | :10:51. | |
three of them this week. Mr Cassandra is a lively character and | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
he knows how to make a few headlines. With a bit of money | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
behind him, anything is possible. This is a guy who has been to the | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
States, who has literally studied what Trump has done. Pees on | :11:02. | :11:13. | |
secondment for the time being. The guy who is his line manager is one | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
of Donald Trump's campaign stop He is extraordinarily right-wing. I am | :11:21. | :11:22. | |
told he kept a picture of Enoch Powell by his bed. Barry Goldwater | :11:23. | :11:31. | |
is one of his heroes, for example. There are other candidates. I would | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
suggest, put out as a hypothesis, Paul Nuttall is Labour's worst | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
nightmare. They are more vulnerable in the North. Paul Nuttall is from | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
Merseyside, a working-class background, performs well on | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
television. He is a really good interviewee. He is one of the best | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
around in politics at the moment. However, I think whoever gets it has | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
a massive task. The clip of this Nigel Farage satire partly shows | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
why. His dominance was overwhelming. He, in many ways, did a brilliant | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
job at keeping the show on the road. The trouble for all new political | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
parties is keeping it going is tough. A very different party, the | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
SDP, with all those glamorous figures in it, lasted eight years, | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
something like that. I think they are in real trouble at the moment | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
because of the implosion we have been seeing in front of our eyes and | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
the ideal -- ideological splits Whoever gets it will face a tough | :12:38. | :12:46. | |
tussle. All three of the main contenders want to put Nigel Farage | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
in the House of Lords. They were falling over themselves to soak up | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
two farads. That is how you win this election. | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
Mr Aaron Banks, who is he putting his money on? He said he supports | :12:58. | :13:04. | |
Rahim. I know Mr Banks is utterly fed with the shenanigans in Ukip. He | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
thinks it is terribly disorganised, dysfunctional and doesn't want a | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
great deal to do with it for the foreseeable future. | :13:14. | :13:15. | |
It is not quite Trump the Clinton but it is interesting. That is it. | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
The Daily Politics is back tomorrow. And all of next week. Jo Coburn will | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
be your next Sunday because I am off to the United States to begin to | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
rehearse presenting the BBC's US election night coverage on the th | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
of November. It will be here on BBC One, BBC | :13:38. | :13:38. | |
world, BBC News Channel and BBC online. | :13:39. | :13:40. | |
Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:41. | :14:11. | |
A stone stained with blood and beset with a curse. | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
The Moonstone is of inestimable value in India. | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
Its appointed guardians would move heaven and earth to reclaim it | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
Let us not let the past haunt all of our actions. | :14:23. | :14:30. | |
You've got to do something! It's only you that can! | :14:31. | :14:31. | |
He's a scientist, brilliant apparently. | :14:32. | :14:32. | |
But you may be bringing people over here who did things during the war. | :14:33. | :14:41. | |
I will not work for you. I will not work for the British Government | :14:42. | :14:47. |