25/11/2012 Sunday Politics South

In the South: should prisoners get the vote? They

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2251 seconds

Welcome to Sunday Politics South, my name's Peter Henley. In the next

20 minutes, more food banks are opening every week, often in pretty

affluent areas and according to one charity, every town in the country

needs one. Let's meet to politicians. One

Liberal Democrat and one Conservative MP. Judith, Ross and

time to try and become an MP, a Liberal Democrat in particular.

think the Liberal Democrats are doing uninspiring job. As a punter,

a vote on the outside, I was hugely impressed when they went into

coalition. I know how hard it is for the party and as I've become

more involved, I've been inspired. I thought why not throw my hat into

the rain? You have had a little bit of a run in. David Rendell did try

for all of those years. Newbury was on the Liberal Democrat Mark Foster

pure experience previously was as a television person. Absolutely. I've

worked in television making science documentaries. I have been

attracting science and industry developments over 20 years. That is

the one of the -- that is one of the reasons I have been attracted

to Newbury, the high-tech, to indications and so on, also the

transport. Right up my street. George, you have got to stay very

much with the Liberal Democrats in his coalition but on the other hand,

you don't have to fight people like Judith in places like Newbury.

have some sympathy because I got involved in 1997, 1998, which is --

which was the same sort of time, politically. The Liberal Democrats

were brave enjoying the coalition. They saw something which needed

fixing and I suspect strongly that Nick Clegg and others knew

perfectly well this was not going to be easy and it hasn't been.

there will have to be a split. is a matter of personal judgment.

don't want to see a split. But you want to see -- win the seat! It is

reasonable to say that we can fight each other in the election at the

same time as being in coalition. We are in coalition, with not joined

her parties at the head. It is worth saying that the one thing

which will be of paramount importance... The estate of its

economy will be the most important thing. We should be able to fight

on a platform on the economy. It's been Parliament week this week,

that time of year when young people in particular get the chance to

find out a bit more about democracy, voting and the mother of

parliaments. So I went over to Portsmouth to see what one group

The bustle of Parliament can seem a world away from most people's daily

lives, especially youngsters. For Parliament weaker, the Admiral Lord

Nelson School in Portsmouth has arranged to bridge that gap with a

special lesson. But these peoples are not being taught by a fusty

academic... What comes to mind when you hear the word politics? This is

a group set up by young people to encourage political engagement. The

session is led by a politics student, Ben Darling. What do we

think the council provides? Youth community activities. The benefits.

Council houses. I think it is really exciting and the fact all of

these lessons are taught by young people, 18-24, shows it can be

interesting and fun. We do teacher made fun way. -- we do teach in a

fun way. Uncapped promises. I think it is confusing because it and

understand how the parties work. -- I don't understand. A lot of young

people are inspired by politics but we need to know more about it.

need more talks like the one we've had today because it benefits all

of us. I've Quine to -- I've found out quite a lot about politics

today. We can inspire other people to get involved and have their say,

because it's about getting everyone involved. We just do it up but it

was a cynic lesson. Because it was taught by him double, they didn't

feel talked down to. Is that a good lesson? Or is it about empowerment?

Getting them engaged, however you do it, is important. During the Avi

campaign, I spent some time in a sixth-form college and a doesn't

know how to vote, they didn't know where to go to vote. They've been

switched off by politicians. Maybe they don't have access to politics

and politicians. They are at teenagers. Let's encourage them in

schools and get them involved a 16 years old. You are watching the

Youth Parliament on Friday. They were talking about transport. They

did that last year as well. Prices have gone up for public transport.

A difficulty for any government is that there are a wealth of

parameters. These are the sorts of discussions which turn young people.

What I do observe is that there are no shortage of appetite so a young

-- among the population. There is a problem when it comes to political

parties. So, it should prisoners get the vote? There is a

substantial issue to get your teeth into. The European Court of Human

Rights says they should. The government's not so keen, with the

Prime Minister saying it made him feel physically ill. Well, this

week the Justice Secretary unveiled the latest proposal, which was a

series of three options ranging from keeping the ban to limited

rights depending on the length of your sentence. There is one place

where prisoners already vote, the Isle of Wight. There are three

prisons on the island and for the last three years inmates have been

involved in their own version of democracy, voting for prison

councils. It started there as a pilot but it's now been rolled out

to 12 other sites across the country. OK, they're only voting

within the prison system, but if they got the same rights to vote in

local and parliamentary elections that the rest of us have, then a

prison population of 1,500 could be a significant block of votes. With

me now is a representative from a prison charity. What was the point

of doing these councils? It is important to include people in

decision-making processes, if we want to cut reoffending rates. It

is vital to include them in those processes. What were the manifestos

of the various candidates? They ranged from a whole lot of things,

from basic things about the prison environment to access to education

and other really important things that they want in order to assist

their own rehabilitation and get back into society. Fend they were

able... Was that put into action as a result of the vote? Exactly, yes.

A council was formed and the representatives are elected by

prisoners and staff, sit with the Governor and report on proposals

for change. One goes for it every month which the Governor tries and

puts into action. Who was attracted by this? What was the turnout?

was around 50 %. That's fairly good. With a angry people or articulate

all loved the sound of their own voices? The people who put

themselves forward as candidates were a whole range of people. There

were people who had previous experience, some as councillors in

local elections, but also people who were frustrated by what they

saw a cent -- around a man wanted to do something about it. They saw

this as a mechanism to get themselves in fault. It has a

positive impact on the committee. What message should we take from

this about allowing prisoners to vote in wider elections? Ultimately,

if we want people to feel a part of their local community, be that

outside or in prison, they need to be included in those decisions.

When people don't feel included, when they feel marginalised and

estranged, that is when people disengaged even further and act out

in other ways. In that case -- in this case, that is committing crime.

Let's put this to buy other two guests. The Governor said it was

phenomenal the X -- successful. Isn't it the same thing if they

were given a vote? This whole issue that is going on in Parliament

right now, two issues are being conflated. One is the influence of

an outside court, in Strasbourg, as telling us what to do about our own

issues. There is also the issue of prisoners voting for stop the two

are getting mixed up. Personally, I think it is a reasonable idea that

we consider allowing prisoners that. There are complications but on

principle, it seems to me if you allow people to be responsible and

think more holistically but the damage they've done, actually, you

make them better people. It seems to be logical. On the European

point, if it wasn't for the court getting involved, you would be in

favour? Yes. I would agree on a prisoner side of things but it is

great Strasbourg are challenging us. They are not prescribing what we

should do. What we are being told is that this blanket ban cannot

stand, find your own way out of it. That is an -- be reasonable ask.

There are many people in Parliament to argue that the European Court

has other issues which it -- which it can address. It is see

responsibility of in national parliament which should decide.

holding law... I agree and fact... There is another factor which is if

we begin to diminish our expectant or acquiescence to a course to

which we are -- court to which we have signed up, we have to

understand that there are potential international consequences which we

may not like. The Chinese and others, who we think have a

difficult human rights records, will say you are not perfect either.

That is another factor. There are all sorts of different issues going

on, at the core of which is voters' rights -- prisoners' rights to vote.

It is a sliding scale, wouldn't you say? Would you give them the right

to vote in every election? Local elections are interesting because

where would they vote? Are they voting for the area in which they

are located? It is difficult to work out. The timing is a lottery

as well. People on remand, they are allowed to vote but what if they

are convicted? It needs sorting out, doesn't it? The timing issue

doesn't worry me. That's life. We don't get timing right a lot of the

time. For years and below, six months and below, it is well worth

talking about. Daniel, to come back to you. We talk about the right to

vote as a privilege but it is not the same as having a driving

licence. In some ways, it is a responsibility. It is. A wider

question is about what we want our Criminal Justice System to do. Do

we wanted to punish people all do we want it to rehabilitate people?

Prison is there to remove people's liberty and freedom of movement.

Once people are in prison, supposedly people should not be

punished further. It is about once they enter the stalls, the

rehabilitation for when they are released. Let's face it, most

people are released into our communities. If we want people to

be active members of society, we need to look at what we do with

them in prison and not punish them further.

130,000 people got emergency food from food banks organised by the

Trussell Trust last year. The charity, which started in Salisbury,

now has more than 250 food banks across the country and is opening

more every week. Often in more affluent areas where you'd least

expect there to be a need. But as our reporter found out, anyone can

be hit by problems putting food on the table.

Up until coming and half in this cup of tea this morning, are not

hard a hot meal or a hot drink in two days. If you're not here now,

where would you be? I would probably be sat at a bus shelter

somewhere, thinking, what am I going to do next? Peter is one of

the 400 people a month walk through the doors of this food bank. Nearly

a quarter of it -- of those it helps, our children, and those

numbers are up. We see a constant growth rate. We are doubling every

12 months just now. That is a constant growth rate that we have

been watching for three years. hand out more than 14 tons of food

here. When I first started three years ago, it was just two.

Everyone gets enough to last them three days and the clients are not

always what you would expect. could be what might be seemingly

well-off but maybe he or she, the husband or wife have just lost

their job. They've been unemployed for three or four months. The

savings may have been emptied out. Now they are ready stuck. They are

expected to pay their mortgage, they have not got any money and

they are crying out for food. They are finding that more and more

people... This is not just an urban problem. In these rural villages,

it may look idyllic the rustic, but they are now setting up their own

smaller food bank. People here may be more reluctant to ask for help.

People who live in the country are more self-reliant Tote -- so to

make the decision to seek help is not the easiest thing for people to

do. It is just a pilot scheme for now but they are expecting to be

around for longer than that. Get to know people, put the word out and

people will respond. They will start to realise we are part of the

normal scene, I think. One month from now, we will all be

celebrating Christmas. If not an easy time morphia if you're

struggling to feed your family. There is always a surge in numbers

with the school holidays because children are normally on free

school meals. All of a sudden, they are at home for two weeks or six

weeks in the summer, and their families cannot afford to feed them.

There is a need in every time for a food bank. Even for most middle-

class areas, where people seem to be well-off, food banks are open.

This food bank is one of more than 280 run by the trust and each week,

they open three more. Good news at least four people like Peter.

that image in my head of a for soup kitchens, stale bread and stuff

like that. By wasn't expecting to come into a warm room with smiles.

-- I wasn't. People have been willing to help me because I am

having trouble help myself. It is a good job they are there.

Not a good reflection on the coalition and the way we are with

the economy, is it? Clearly, you would rather aid situation where

food banks are not rest -- necessary. This is a reflection of

two issues. There is an over indebtedness of the general

population. Across the population, from top to bottom, people have

borrowed more than they can afford, especially when times turned down.

People are paying debt at a much higher rate than they ever have

done before. There are stresses and strains. People end up on the edge

of affordability. And benefits are being cut. They are because there

is not the money to go around that they used to be because we cannot

carry on borrowing from the international markets, if we think

that they are going to start making us pay the sort of numbers that

other countries have to pay. There is a squeeze on government. We

cannot carry on borrowing that many. We have to cut demand this spend on

public services. Is it a price worth paying? That has been said

about unemployment for before. There is no other option because we

will end up somewhere much worse. We have inflation in food prices

going up. We've had a poor harvest here. Any member of farming

families are talking about low heels, dreadful quality. We've had

failures internationally and strange things going on with

climate change. We have a squeeze on both ends. We have lower incomes

because times are worse than they were. With prices going up in food,

the result is something like food banks. Judith, the Liberal

Democrats said they would protect the most formidable in society.

There is this phenomenal increase in the number of people who need to

be given enough to get by. We have improved matters in so far as, for

those who are working at least, everybody is getting �500 more in

their wage bill every month... Every year. People don't have

enough to buy the food they need to eat. Do you want me to start

talking about taxes? We could start talking about taxing other people.

They would be at the top end of the scale. Would that put more money in

the pockets at the other end of the scale? Or should people be more

self-reliant as well? That was based -- a phrase that was used in

the film. Plans say you don't run out. A don't have any problem with

the idea of self-reliance for cooking for yourself instead of

buying ready-made meals. Cooking from scratch is a delight. But also,

do much of the austerity, and I agree we have to keep the austerity

measures going, too much of it is affecting the bottom and not enough

Now our regular round-up of the political week in the South. This

week on the theme of change we can believe in. And all packed in to 60

It is all change down the local as pubs are turned into supermarkets.

250 have been converted in two years. The Campaign for Real Ale

say that is too many full support change for the police and

authorities as the new commissioners took up their duties.

Torsades Independent was throwing open the doors of his new office. -

- Dorset. I have big plans. There is no change for speed limits in

Oxfordshire. The county council say a 20 mph trial has not made enough

difference. There will be little changed from the money the

Government gave out this week to keep up bin collections. Even

though grans varied widely from �500,000 in Reading to �21 million

for Bournemouth. Finally, clear evidence that nothing changes in

politics. An exhibition of political posters in Sussex

revealed kidnappings, bribery and huge amounts of skulduggery. These

are stories about people being too drunk to even photo!

We have just bought a set of medals, some of which were specifically

struck so that they could exchange it for a drink at a local pub! That

was in 1780. If it is a funny world you two are involved in! You are

disappointed about the 20 mph speed limit. I think it is a good idea in

general and I would like to know more about the trial. They say it's

not had enough of a difference. What do they mean? It has worked in

some places. Biff... The theme was changed, if you could change one

thing to get people more involved in politics, what could it be?

run parliaments in schools and try to educate them that there is more

to this than just a bunch of suits talking, they can make a difference

to stuff out there. I would say that is a good idea, get kids

involved but actually get other people who've and other Koreas to

come into Parliament as well. careers. Thank you both of you.