03/11/2013 Sunday Politics South

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as

Plebgate, now it is Plodgate. The evidence of three police officers to

MPs is branded a great work of fiction. They tried to intimidate

the Grangemouth bosses, but in the end it was the union that

capitulated. I will ask Len McCluskey about Unite union's strong

arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. They preach women should be

sidelined and confined to the private sphere. They argued they

should be covered up. Putting a credit union in every

church. Is inviting the money authority is investigating --

investing thousands of pounds in a GPS tracking system to keep tabs on

its staff. With me as always, the best and the

brightest political panel, Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt

who will be tweeting their humiliating climb-down is what they

got wrong last week in the programme. If this can happen it to

a Cabinet minister, what hope is there for anyone else? Thus the Home

Affairs Select Committee concluded what many already thought about the

treatment of Andrew Mitchell by three self-styled PC plebs. They met

him to clear the air over what did or did not happen when he was

prevented from ramming his bike through the Downing Street gates.

But the officers gave the media and inaccurate account of that meeting.

Two of them are even accused of misleading the Commons committee.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission will now reopen there

enquiry. This is not a story about Andrew Mitchell, it is about the

police. Keith Vaz is often in high dudgeon and this is the highest dad

and I have seen him in for some time. They could be held for

contempt of Parliament and technically they could be sent to

prison. It has blown up into an enormous story. I do not know what

is worse, the police trying to stitch up a Cabinet member and try

to mislead the media or the incompetence they have done it from

day one. That is quite good. I would sleep more soundly at night if I

knew the pleas were good at this. It is the incompetence that shocks me.

And this is just a sideshow. We are still waiting on the main report as

to what exactly happened outside Downing Street gates. But that not

will be good for the police either. The file has gone from the

Metropolitan police to the CPS, so we are limited about what we can

say. This is about the police Federation. They were set up under

statute in 1990 as a deal in which a police would not go on strike. This

is a political campaign to get a Cabinet minister out and the legacy

of this is the police Federation will have to be reformed. We will

keep an eye on it. They were Ed Miliband's union backers, they swung

the Labour leadership for him in 2010. Now the Unite union looks like

his biggest headache. The Sunday Times has seen extracts of the

report into the alleged vote rigging to select a Labour candidate in

Falkirk. There was evidence of coercion and Gregory as well as

deliberate attempt to frustrate the enquiry. We will be speaking to Len

McCluskey, the Unite union's General Secretary, in a moment. First out

the saga began an almost ended up with the loss of 800 jobs at a

petrochemical plant in Grangemouth. Unite were key players in the

Grangemouth dispute and the union headed by Len McCluskey has come

under fire for its intimidator Tariq tactics. In one instance

demonstrators complete with an inflatable rat picketed the home of

a INEOS director. The police were called. It was part of a strategy

the union called leverage. But turning up at people's houses seems

to represent an escalation. At the centre of the rout was Steve in

deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS launched an investigation into him

as he was suspected of using company time to engineer the selection of

labour's candidate in Falkirk. That candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend

of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans resigned last week and denies any

wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic climb-down by Unite union. Len

McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to the Sunday Times we now know what is

in this labour report on the Falkirk vote rigging. Forgery, coercion

trickery, manipulation. You must be ashamed of how Unite union behaved

in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article is lazy journalism. There is nothing

new in the article. This was all dealt with by the Labour Party in

the summer. We rejected those allegations then and we said we had

done nothing wrong and both the Labour Party and the police in

Scotland indicated there had been no wrongdoing. The report itself says

you were trying to thwart the investigation. First you tried to

fix the selection of a candidate to get your woman in and then you

thwarted the investigation into the dirty deeds. The reality is the

Labour Party report was deeply flawed. The Labour Party then

instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to do an in-depth investigation and

during that investigation they got to the bottom of what had happened

and they decided there was no wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I

was so confident we had done nothing, I called for an independent

enquiry. They were forced to conclude there was no wrongdoing

because the people who originally complained changed their evidence

and we now know they did so because Unite union officials helped them to

rewrite their retraction and Stevie Deans approved it. That is not true.

We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into the public arena and what is that

all about? Who is leaking this? They showed the Unite union was rewriting

the retractions. This interview would go a lot better if you are

allowed me to finish the question that you asked. These e-mails were

put into the public arena by the PR company from INEOS. Why are they

doing this? The truth of the matter is that all of the investigations

that took place demonstrate there was nothing to answer. This idea

that the Unite union has rewritten and the evidence from the families

has been withdrawn, the families are a part of Stevie deems' family. They

clarified the position. Do you deny that union officials were involved

in the retractions? I deny it completely. This is important.

Independent solicitors to witness statements from the family and they

are the ones that were influencing the Labour Party with the position

is clarified and there is no case to answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw

their retractions? It is his family. So you do not deny it? It is his

family. This is an ordinary, decent family who were faced with the full

weight of the pleas, a forensic solicitor. Of course they spoke to

Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a cesspit. Does it not need an

independent investigation? This is a trap being laid by Tory Central

office. They are making all the demands. The media, the Daily Mail,

the Sunday Times, the Conservative mouthpiece, they are laying tracks

for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband should not fall into them. Since

when did it become part of an industrial dispute to send mobs to

the home of company families. This is a legitimate form of protest and

it is a silent protest. We believe if faceless directors are making

decisions that cripple communities, they cannot expect to simply drift

back to their own leafy suburbia and not be countable. This is silent

protest. It is lawful. It may be silent in Grangemouth, but it was

not silent elsewhere. You went with a giant rat, loud-hailers telling

everybody the neighbour was evil. No, we did not. You had

loud-hailers, you even encouraged passing children in Grangemouth to

join in. That is nonsense. Look at the rat. The reality is the

Grangemouth community was going to be decimated, Grangemouth was going

to become a ghost town. I reject totally this idea there were

loud-hailers and children involved. That is a lie perpetrated by the

Daily Mail. But you have used these tactics in other disputes. We have

used the tactics in other disputes, but we have not used loud-hailers at

people's homes. Because the labour laws are so restrictive we have to

look at every available means that we can protest. It is an outrage, an

absolute outrage, that this is happening to British workers in the

21st-century. It could not happen elsewhere. Is not intimidation the

wider hallmark of your union? You were quoted as saying to do whatever

it takes during your attempts to take over the Labour Falkirk

constituency. You were instructing to dig out the nasty stuff on your

opponents. That is not true. Let's see these e-mails? This is a con

trick. Nobody is looking to dig out... This is the words of your

legal services advisor. Unite has tried to instigate a revival of

trade union values within the Labour Party. That is what Ed Miliband

wanted us to do. As soon as we started to be in any way

ineffective, there were screams and howls of derision. When the company

started to investigate Stevie Deans, your friend, your campaign manager,

that he was using company time to moonlight on the job, you called

INEOS and said unless you stop the investigation we will bring

Grangemouth to a standstill. I never said that at all. You brought it to

a standstill. We never brought it to a standstill, the company did. Who

says that I said that we would bring it to a standstill? You have read it

in the newspapers. You should not believe everything. I did not make

that threat to the management. You carried the threat out. You

instigated an overtime ban and a work to rule. And that is what

Grangemouth to a standstill because the company decided to close the

petrochemical site down. Because Stevie Deans was suspended due

introduced industrial action? Our members in Grangemouth felt he was

being unfairly treated. In the end you're grandstanding almost cost

Scotland is most important industrial facility. The day was

saved by your total capitulation. Grandstanding, capitulation and

humiliation are grand phrases. There is nothing about capitulation. Len

McCluskey did not wake up one day and decide to have a dispute with

INEOS. The workers in that factory democratically elect their shop

stewards to represent them and to express to management their concerns

and their views. That is what happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has

condemned your union's handling of Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have

you considered your position? Jack Straw and others in the Labour

Party, you have to ask them what their agenda is. I am not interested

in what he says. The truth of the matter is we responded to the

requirements and needs of our members. At a mass meeting last

Monday 100% supported their shop stewards and their union. We will

continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with our members when they

are faced with difficult situations. You have lost all the union rights.

You have had to agree to a no strike rule, you have lost pension rights.

We have not lost rights at all, we are still working with the company

to implement its survival plan. The Prime Minister is always attacking

unions and just lately he has taken to praising the automotive

industry. Jaguar Land Rover, Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all

Unite union members were the shop stewards are engaged positively to

implement survival plans and to make a success for the company. That is

what we do, but by the same token we stand shoulder to shoulder with our

members who are in struggle and we will always do that and we will not

be cowed by media attacks on us Is your leadership not proving to be as

disastrous for the members as Arthur Scargill was for the NUM? My

membership is growing. I am accountable to my members, two are

executive, and the one thing they will know is that when they want me

standing shoulder to shoulder with them when they have a problem, I

will be there, despite the disgraceful attacks launched on us

by the media. "A country ready to welcome your

investment which values your friendship and will never exclude

anyone because of their race, religion, colour or creed." The

words of the Prime minister at the World Islamic Economic Forum which

was hosted for the first time in London this week. The PM's warm

words are sure to be welcomed by British Muslims who have endured a

spate of negative headlines. There's been the controversy over the

wearing of the veil, attitudes to women, and the radicalisation of

some young British Muslims. In a moment I'll be talking to the

Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad.

First - here's Giles Dilnot. The call to Friday prayers at the east

London Mosque which has strong links with the Muslim Council of Britain,

one of the more vocal groups amongst British Muslims. Despite the fact it

frequently happens, it is neither helpful nor accurate to describe the

British Muslim community. There are so many different sects,

traditions, cultures and nationalities, it is more accurate

to describe the British Muslim communities, but there is one

question being put to them - are they doing enough internally to

address some challenging issues Are they willing to confront

radicalisation, attitudes to non-muslins, two women, and cases of

sexual exploitation in a meaningful way? A number of them say no, not

nearly enough. This former jihad de has spent ten years telling young

Muslim teenagers how they can reject extremist radicalisation, using

Outward Bound courses and community work, but he and others doing this

work thing -- think some elders are failing the youngsters. This has

been going on for decades, one figures -- thing is said in public

to please people but in private something very different is being

said and the messages are being confused. Some of the young people,

it pushes them further into a space where they are vulnerable for

radical recruiters. For many Muslim youngsters, life is about living 1's

faith within an increasingly secular society, a struggle not helped if

rigid interpretations of the Koran are being preached, say some

sectors. Some practices often don't make sense in 21st-century Britain,

and you are perhaps creating obstacles if you stick to those and

it is perhaps better to let go of those cultural problems, especially

when they need to clear injustices like forced marriage, reticence to

talk about grooming for example or discrimination against women. There

is a long list but I am very clear that in fact the bad Muslim is the

one who sticks to unflinching, narrow dogmatic fundamentalist

perception of religion. One issue often focused on is the wearing of

minicab. Polling suggests 80% of Britons would favour a ban in public

places. -- the niqab. Many people don't seem to recognise the legacy

of the niqab. Many people preach that women should be sidelined and

that they are sexual objects that should be covered up and the

preservation of morality falls on their shoulders. The Muslim Council

of Britain recently got praise for holding a conference on combating

sexual exploitation. In the wake of abuse cases that had involved

predominantly Pakistani men. For one man who has followed the story for

some years, the Muslim Council of Britain needs to do much more. We

need to get along together and if things like attitudes towards the

normal slim girl in stark contrast to the expression of honour and

chastity of the Muslim girl, your sister or daughter, are such that

actions that would be an fought off with a slim girl becomes permissible

with a white girl, then we are all in trouble. To some, attitudes to

women are not limited to sexual interactions at the very structures

of life in Muslim communities and indeed the Muslim Council of Britain

itself. I would like to ask the Muslim Council of Britain what they

are doing about the fact that very few mosques give voices to

are doing about the fact that very the fact that someone women are

experiencing female genital mutilation and forced marriages

what about the women who are getting married and their marriages are not

being registered and they are being left homeless and denied maintenance

rights, what about the fact there are sharia rights that have been

found to be discriminating against women, and the fact there are men in

this country who continue to hold misogynistic views about women, what

are you doing? The occasional press release will not solve this problem

of a deeply patriarchal community. That all of these issues can be

exploited to the point of Islam phobia is not doubted, but many

Muslims feel that unless the communities do tackle this openly, a

big cultural gap will exist between the two.

And the Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq

Murad, joins me now. One visible sign that sets muslins aside is the

veils that cover women's faces. Do you think it makes them impossible

to be part of mainstream society? The niqab is not an obligatory

requirement. But do you accept that those who wear it are cutting

themselves off from mainstream society? Some people do, and whilst

wearing niqab, some of them are working in various walks of life

successfully and it is seen as a faith requirement, but it is a red

herring in the sense that it applies to such a small number of Muslim

girls. For many Muslim preachers, isn't separation precisely the point

of the niqab? Certainly not, if you look at the Muslim women in the

public sphere, we have many very successful women. But not the ones

who are veiled. Not in the public arena as such, but the veil is a

practice which is practised by a very small number. Do you favour

it? I personally think it is not a requirement. But do you think women

should wear the veil? I think it is wrong to force women to wear the

veil. I asked if in your opinion women should wear the veil? It is

important not to force women to wear the veil. Should they of their free

choice where the veil? A lot of individuals do things out of their

free choice which I do not approve of, I don't think it is conducive it

helps their cause, but I do not have the right to take their choice away

from them. I am still unsure if you think it is a good thing or a bad

thing. Are not many Muslim women in this country being forced by Muslim

preachers and often their male relations who want to keep Muslim

women their place? As I said, it is wrong for anyone to force Muslim

women. But how would we ever know in a family if a woman was being

forced? Exactly, we don't know what is going on in people 's homes and

what pressure is being applied. I want you to look at this picture,

very popular on Islamic websites, and it shows the women who is

wearing the niqab having a straight route to heaven, and the other

Muslim woman dressed in western gear condemned to hell. Do you consider

that a proper message for Muslim women? Not at all, I don't. So any

Islamic websites in Britain... The Muslim Council of Britain is an

organisation of five affiliates from across the country and this is not

coming from any of them. As I said, those minority views propagated by

individuals should not be used to represent Muslim community. So that

would not have the support of the Muslim Council of Britain? It would

not have the support. What about the Muslim free school that requires

children as young as 11 to wear a black veil outside of school? Do you

agree with that? I am not sure exactly what the policy is... I have

just told you, do you agree that girls as young as 11 should wear a

black burka outside of school? I don't think it should be imposed on

anybody. But this is the desired dress School of the Muslim females.

I am asking for your view. I said it at the beginning that I do not think

it should be imposed. Would you send your daughter to a school that would

wear a black burka at the age of 11? Would you? No. It seems that some

muslins are determined to segregate young Muslim girls right from the

start to very early from society. It is not their segregation as such, I

would say that there are faith schools, if you look at an Islamic

girls school in Blackburn in a traditional setting, it has come the

top of the league table this year in the secondary school league tables.

But it doesn't make 11-year-olds wear black burkas. Many of those

girls go on to have a successful career. Not wearing black burkas. I

am sure there are examples of women who do have successful careers.

There is a very conservative movement from the continent on

Islam, and the issue supposedly based on Islamic law on their

website. Here is one of their recent judgements. The female is encouraged

to remain within the confines of her home as much as possible, she should

not come out of the home without need and necessity. What do you

think of that? We need to say the whole context of that quote. They

are saying they should stay at home as much as possible, do you agree

with that? I see many Muslim women who are walking about... But this is

what the mosque is recommending women should do. The practice is

quite the contrary. Let me show you another one. Another Fatwa. Do you

agree with that? These have been picked out from material dating back

to different cultural settings and in practice they are not applied.

This is advice being given as we speak. This is not being practised.

Do you agree with it? No, not at all. These are from the DL Monday

mosques, how come 72 of these mosques are affiliated to your

counsel? There may be publications from one of their scholars, but they

have been written in countries abroad and translated. This is

advice being given to young women now. They are affiliated to the

Muslim Council of Britain. Do you ever speak to them about that? The

Muslim Council is a very broad organisation. We are working on lots

of common issues to create a community which positively

integrates. Did you ever speak to them to say this is not appropriate

for British Muslims? There may be certain ad buys and publications

available, but people make their choices. So it is OK for your

organisation to issue things like that? Many of these things will fall

under scrutiny and we need to create that. Why do only 26% of British

mosques have facilities for women? If you go back to the requirement of

prayer, it was not obligatory for women to come to the masks to

prayer. When a poorer community began putting up mosques at the very

beginning in terraced houses... Did you have a policy to encourage them?

Is it on your website? It is in our practices that 20% of the council

have to be female. Coming out of this movement there is a conscious

stream of superiority between Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at

this quote. He is a well-known picture in this country.

That is what he wants to stop. I disagree with that. We believe we

live in this society and Muslims in any society of the world, and they

have historically lived as minorities in many countries... You

would this associate yourself from that? Why do you allow people like

that to be affiliated to you? The requirement is for any organisation

to be affiliated is that they are bound by the Charity commission's

rules and regulations. We only accept those who are under the law

of this country. This is a matter of taste. Let me move on to a bigger

issue. In 2009 you signed the Istanbul dash-mac the Istanbul

declaration was signed. Do you still support it? No, we never signed it

or supported it. One of your leading lights signed it. In the media

mainstream he defended his position. You have this associated yourself

from it? What is wrong with that? I am not sure about the declaration

because we disassociated ourselves. Before reading it? We did not sign

it. You have not read it? I do not know all the aspects of the

declaration, but at the time in the national newspapers and media there

was a discussion and a debate and it was highlighted that that was not

was a discussion and a debate and it what was meant by the declaration.

When did you decide so is the yourself from the declaration? From

day one. We never signed it. The East London Mosque which you are

personally closely associated with is the venue for a number of

extremist speakers, who espoused extremist positions. In 2009 the

mosque posted a video and presentation by somebody described

by the UN Security Council as an Al-Qaeda leader supporter. Another

speaker described Christians and Jews as Phil. You have had a jihad

is supporter of the Taliban there. Why do you do nothing to stop

extremists like that at this mask with which you are associated with?

We do not have anything to do with any rhetoric that condones or

supported violence. We issue guidelines and the mosque itself is

a registered charity which has its own rules and regulations, but it is

a very large mosques and lots of organisations book and come and told

their gatherings. We rent out the facilities. You were prepared to

speak alongside a man who saluted suicide bombers, and said 9/11 was a

Zionist conspiracy. Why would you share a platform like that? I did

not share a platform like that. Different organisations come and

have conferences here. Why did you agree? I did not agree with that. I

completely reject that. When you add all this up the attitude to women,

the alliance with the most fundamentalist Islamic mosques, the

toleration of intolerant views, a willingness for you to be counted

among them, why should anybody of goodwill, either a Muslim or a

non-Muslim, regard the MCB as a good force? It is an organisation which

embraces different organisations which are affiliated in the Muslim

community. You have taken snippets of certain individual views which

are not the views of our affiliates. It would be unfair to represent our

view based on those which you have highlighted in this programme. The

work that we do is quite clear and is on our website. They are all

associated with you, but we will have to leave it there. You are

watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up: I will be talking to joke

Welcome to Sunday politics so. On today's show, mixing God and Mammon.

We will be talking to the clergyman who wants to get moneylenders back

into church, with a credit union in every parish. First, let's meet the

politicians who will be with me for the next 20 minutes. A netbook is

the Liberal Democrat MP for Dorset and Liverpool, and Caroline is the

MP for Romsey and Southampton zero. Carolyn, you had a good debate in

Parliament this week. When you read something in Parliament like this,

it gets a big response, doesn't it? It does, and I was reading it on

behalf of one constituent who brought it to my attention some

months ago. I have had e`mails from people around the country who have

sent me e`mails on similar circumstances. You asked the

Minister for next nation and it was a can of worms. The law is not clear

on giving the wrong body away. The law is unclear and I asked the

Minister to clarify. He asked me to bring to his attention any further

cases I was aware of. Is a publicity when you have a debate like that, or

the fact that the Minister must address themselves and civil

servants must find the answer is it is very useful, I had a debate at

the beginning of the term on school starting things. Some children are

starting literally the day after the fourth birthday and it is very

difficult to get the place to third and also premature babies starting

just on four is an enormous step for them and they have not newly

developed sufficiently. There is new guidance available in the Minister

was able to tell others about that but the challenge now is to get it

implemented. When you get started down the throat it is good fun to

keep that going. Now the Royal Charter on regulating press received

the green seal this weekend. This was the politicians version, not the

one reduced by the industry. Most unanimously, the press is not happy

about politicians meddling as they see it in their business. Joining me

now is Ian Murray, the vice president of the Society of editors.

You are pointing out the fact that local newspapers will be caught in

the same net that has been thrown over the tabloids. You think you

should be treated differently? No, the regional press have pointed

out that it is tougher on us because of the financial constraints that

will comment, some of the penalties, actually mean more to us. We do not

have the finances behind is that individual papers do. The company is

that owners are quite large but for individual papers to survive

?100,000 plus legal fees that could come out of these kinds of things,

there has been some acknowledgement about this from the government to

have said that we will make it so that we will put charges on to

anyone who wishes to go to an appeal over this, to go to adjudication

over this. Actually, I don't agree with that. I think putting the

charge there which we depress actually said in our charter and the

independent present standards organisation that we have put

forward, we have said we do not want any charges. Do not put any barriers

in the way of genuine keys is coming forward to believe they have a

complaint against the press. But that one issue is a practical issue.

What I consider to be quite insulting is that it seems the

politicians have thought that they can buy off the regional press by

addressing their financial worries. They are not interested in the

bigger picture as the big boys are, the national press. We are. We are

just as concerned but the press in this country and having a free press

is just as important for the people of Southampton. And argue just as

keen to put mistakes right? There are mistakes in regional press as in

a national press. We are and what you must point out, some politicians

have basically said, we must sort out something so that anyone who is

a victim of the press and have a form of redress. The PC `` the PCC

was not up to it. The industry has not seen, there was nothing wrong so

let's not continue as we are. We have listened to what Lord Justice

Levenson said and we have agreed that we must come up with a beefed

up regular Tory authority that does have an open itself to the public ``

regular Tory authority. That is what this actually does what it has been

brushed to one side. It has gone through the democratic process to

some extent. Saints no, it was all cobbled together late one night any

room, with the leader of the opposition with pizzas and hacked

off. The press were not there. But an organisation that was anti`free

speech was. When Max will you will continue with this? Will you

continue to fight? The public will see, you must continue with what the

politicians have lined up. Why should we agree with politicians? We

read the first nation in the world, 300 years ago, to actually say, free

speech. To win that hard`fought idea and defend it through the centuries.

During that time there have been some atrocious times of the press,

in Queen Victoria's time, the London press were printing stories that

Prince Albert had been arrested at a German spy and was being held in the

tower, and Moscato for that. So it was for ages ago, but we should do

something. A free press, whether it is here or at my daily newspaper in

Southampton or the Herald in Glasgow or the Daily Mail and The Guardian,

a free press as anyone who lives in a society where they do not have a

free press will tell you is the jewel in the Crown. It may be a

diamond in the rough, it might be when you polish it up you can still

see some flaws, but it is pretty precious and you should not throw it

away. You are throwing away something so precious, you

politicians, by imposing this on the local and national press. Everyone

has been concerned with the local press, we do appreciate the fact

that all of this has arisen by the misdeeds of the national press in

one way or another. I am sorry that actually a compromise in terms of

the financial situation and arbitration and the fact that local

newspapers who might face financial hardship... He says it is not about

that. I am accepting that but it is a pity to dismiss economise. I

believe in freedom of the press but I do not think it is unreasonable to

have a totally independent press complaints rebuilt Tory commission.

It is not totally independent. The compromise, the opt out that is

built and there, actually if you read the small print it is not

guaranteed. The new regulator will look at it later on and sometimes

you make sets, etc the thing guaranteed at all. `` you make

except, etc. It is almost a mockery. But if it turns out to be too much

of a hardship for the local press, you can opt out of it completely and

Galway. There was everyone an attempt to say, let's deal with the

national press differently from the regional press. Politicians are

going for the throats of the national press. Carolyn, have you

called the wrong people into this? Why are you so insisted that it must

be independent and then leave MPs in charge? Is a good and valid point

about the regional press who by and large behave brilliantly well. We

are very lucky to have the daily Echo and I enjoyed the description

of Ian Day as a diamond in the rough. There is a problem. I had a

significant mailbag from constituents who are asking for a

live is to be limited info. I am sure and it was the same. There is a

significant number of the public who looked at the excesses and wanted

something that would be `` wanted something that would be effective.

It is very easy to argue that laws were broken their and it is

criminal. Of course, because we have a court case going on. Why resist

having a regulator who can direct apologies and remedies?

We're not. You must put this right. The independent press standards

organisation would come forward the regulator and directly with those

people who see that they want to live permitted, but Levenson said he

called on the press to set up its own self`regulatory body that would

then be totally free of interference from the press, interviews from

politicians, and what we would argue and see is that the one we set up in

the one we are going forward with is free of war. There are no serving

editors on regulatory body. Lets see how it all develops.

You might remember over the summer the Archbishop of Canterbury

announcing that he was going to wage war on payday lenders, taking them

on at their own game by getting the church to offer short`term loans.

There was a hack up when it turns out the church itself invested in

one of the biggest lenders but it is still the plan. The genesis of this

was close to home in our region. The spirit of the Lord is upon me

because he has anointed me to bring good news to the pure.

As a man of God, teaching the Word of God is at the's. . We must let

the press coffee. As an ex`accountant, spreading the message

of saving has also become a passion. Get hold the vast number of people

captive. It is oppressing people and that is why we need to change

culture. Anthony's vision was partly behind the Archbishop of

Canterbury's decision to wage war on payday lenders. We are endeavouring

to help the movement to expand and preach at potential so people will

use an ethical financial provider which will be better for them

because the rates of interest are not high and also they can save for

a rainy day. What I am doing is central to the questions of the

gospel, setting captors free and fully seen people from debt. Geysers

is known for kicking out moneylenders and merchants from the

temples, but the Bible doesn't say that no one should charge interest

on loans to one another. `` Jesus Navas known. The churches than happy

to let moneylenders back in the front door. I think turkeys to do

with religion, not finance. It can be dangerous. There is a danger it

could go wrong. We should give money, and not expect that it of my

back plus the cost of what is to do it. The plan is to open credit

unions in every community with a church. One has been set up here,

and it is manned twice per week in volunteers from the Dorset credit

union. When you get the charge involved, churches in the local

area, they know the local people and it is accessible to people in the

local community. Everyone can trust the church, hopefully. Alex and her

partner went to the Dorset credit union when they needed money to pay

for nursery fees. Everyone has stresses and strains but to have

someone I can go to for help when I need the extra help is a great

relief. There will not be people knocking on my door, demanding money

or my object my home if I have missed a payment or something. Indy

says, more than 1000 people turned to one charity last year for help.

They were all desperate for advice on how to pay back small loans that

have become too big to manage. It is a problem the Vicar of Littlemore

sees almost everyday. This is a lovely area with a high population

of young families and the people who work here amongst the most 5%

earners in the country. If it is a five`week month, week five then it

is a real struggle. Not because they are bad at managing their money but

literally because it is not enough to stretch, particularly in a

five`week month. Maybe not surprisingly she says the real value

to having a credit union in her charge. It is a blessing, it is a

way that people can borrow money without having to pay back lots of

interest. You have support and advice as well, it is very

beneficial and helps people perceived. The ultimate aim is for

the church one day to have a credit union of its own. But there is still

a question over whether it should be in the money lending is this at all.

Lending money responsibly, helping people to lead better lives, is a

good thing to do. The credit union is a mutual society, so what profit

armies are returned by way of dividend. It is society that

benefits. `` what profits are made. Caroline, should the church be

putting out the, setting out to an end to the organisation that does

not like you were of by undercutting? I am aware that he

credit union has been operating out of a church for many years now and

it has worked well and as your BT said it has provided a fantastic

service to people when they need it most without charging. What happens

if the judge decides it's does not like dodgy car dealers. We will sell

things cheaper. Shouldn't they stick to doing what they do best? You'll

match what the church does best is looks after local communities and

this is a brilliant example of how the Church recognises a need and

steps into it. Anette, are you concerned? I am a big fan of credit

unions and I think it is very good that the drug is working with credit

unions. I thought it was great when the Bishop deposited large sums of

money into credit unions because that helps. But this is the church

actually going out into the community and supporting. For me

that is really important. It is undercutting, OK they charge a lot

of interest, but they are the experts. Particularly people who are

very profound need a small bit of money, a credit union can

necessarily do that. The important thing is to undercut the 5000% of

Wonga and the like. So there is no place for that organisation? When we

are talking about thousands of percent of interest lending loan

after loan to vulnerable people who cannot possibly afford to repay,

yes. I have a constituent who has a son with learning difficulties and

he signed up watching the adverts on the television and the parents had

to sort this out. That is appalling. Yet more clashes that prime

ministers questions of energy prices. The government insists the

best thing consumers can do switch suppliers. But as an individual,

hardly going to get the best deal going? Across the country groups of

consumers are getting together to organise communal switching

suppliers. The idea is that hundreds or even thousands of students

together we can negotiate a better deal. The Cabinet never for the

environment has been talking to a county council launching the scheme.

Getting everyone together just get the better price? It is essentially

about bulk buying. The more you buy the better the price you get. What

we have been doing in Hampshire is seeing the energy companies, we have

all of these, thousands of people, this is how many megawatts of energy

and gas and electric we watched device will give us your best price.

You're introducing another middleman. No, because if it is a

middleman the middleman is not getting a penny out of it. We are

getting people together to see we need all this energy. Why shouldn't

they just be forced to do this? Or maybe the places frozen? Instead of

you having to organise this sort of scheme. The real world is that the

more Dubai have something the better the place you can generally

negotiate. It is all about buying power and what we want to do as a

county council is to enable people absolutely without any compunction,

we can say to them if you want and are interested, this is the best

place. We have taken it to an auction in this company has come in.

This is what you can get, this is what you can say. Is this David

Cameron spec society? The market has been completely taken over, we have

county council is sorting out elders of the prices, the church doing with

Wonga, it seems odd. I congratulate shone, that is maize cross`party

work. It is necessary to do something because the big six Arbor

meeting the market. It is very good news. So change the market! That is

what Ed Davey is doing, we have independent suppliers with thousands

of customers and they are welcoming switching of community buying.

Excellent news. We need more competition but whilst it is in you

must give more power to buyers to match the power of the seller. The

Liberal Democrats got there before you, you can switch and we want

major scheme. You can switch in one day but not necessarily to place you

can get by buying lots of energy rather than just one of the people

switching their energy prices. You're seeing this is a better deal?

Yes, the vast majority of people never switch. They don't switch back

into mortgages. Helping them do that. Caroline, the price freeze

suggestion that the fellow band`mate, docking about reforming

of gin and threatening the big six. `` that Ed Miliband made. You can

have a supply a generator and a seller, isn't that more radical to

what we will need? What we had from the analysis of Mr Miliband ideas is

that it will not work. We have had each new entrants to the energy

market since 2010, that must be good news because the more people look at

the alternatives, it will be better and they can put pressure on the big

six. The government is ensuring there is more transparency and what

I want to see is not just you being able to compare whether you are on

the best talent from your supplier, but much as you do with the big

supermarkets, you should be able to see across suppliers. Just to ensure

the market works better than it does at the moment. Know our regular

round`up of the political week in the south in 60 seconds.

Trains planes and automobiles in the news this week. The vote on a chest

to solve Labour MPs back on track but many questions remain over costs

and timetables. Building aircraft wings just got

easier thanks to a Dorset company. The biggest composite machine ever

built by EIC in cruel is being sent to Shanghai and ten bodies.

The prime minister did automobiles on a visit to Oxford's many plans

getting the economic recovery underway.

Tell that to university staff, who held a one`day strike on Thursday

saying that wages are keeping `` are not keeping pace with living costs.

Effectively and members are taking a cut. Around 30% when you count

inflation and everything else. Cash problems of a different game, was

Jean Austin's portrait airbrushed on the banknote?

And a licence to print money according to applications for solar

farms in Oxfordshire, which have trebled in one year.

I must ask you to ladies with Jane Austen. Brushed? Is this tokenism?

Her being presented in such a way? I am part of the all`party group that

is against airbrushing. It is actually on body image but we have a

`` we have a firm line on airbrushing. I would like to see

Jane Austen looking as she actually did rather than a sanitised version.

Sadly this is the reality of the 21st`century. You don't think Darwin

would have been airbrushed in quite the same way? There are pressures on

men and women nowadays to have their photographs retouched and ensure

they are looking as immaculate as they possibly can, with and it be

better if we all would more natural? A good role model, Jane Austen.

Fantastic, I'm a great Jane Austen fan so I'm delighted to have a

funeral on the banknote. Very good. It is all about that sort of thing.

Absolutely and you know it has been a good thing for Hampshire. We have

Jane Austen on the banknote and Florence unseating Gill on the

national curriculum. It back that is decent politics in the South, thanks

to my guests, and it broke the Liberal Democrat MP for Dorset and

Caroline no from Romsey and Southampton. But forgets to keep

up`to`date with Southern politics by reading my blog. That is the address

of the bottom. For now, from us. Back to Andrew.

Thank you for coming, great to see you. Andrew, back to you. Labour 's

relationship with Unite and other issues all to be discussed in the

Week Ahead and we're joined now by the shadow business secretary Chuka

Umunna. First I would like to get your reaction to the interview I did

earlier with the General Secretary of the union Unite - Len McCluskey.

Let's look at what he said. This is a trap being laid by Tory Central

office. They are making all of the demands and the Daily Mail, the

Sunday Times, are you telling me they are not the conservative

mouthpiece in the media? They are laying traps for Ed Miliband and he

should not fall into them. Though it is all a Tory plot. Len McCluskey

denies a lot of the allegations put, but let me be clear in an industrial

dispute, the use of aggressive or intimidatory tactics by either side

is totally unacceptable. Do you think it is wrong for Unite to send

its members to the homes of managers? I don't know what happened

in that particular case, but I think you should keep people 's families

out of these things and if you are doing something that can upset

particularly children, that is a bad thing. I know he denied a number of

things you put to him. We now know some of the content of Labour 's own

report into what happened at Falkirk and they found all sorts of things -

forgery, coercion, trickery and even that their own investigation was

being thwarted by Unite. What should Labour do next? I have not read the

report. We are told that the latest allegations that have been made is

something that the police are looking into so that is not

something I think would be appropriate for me to comment on. We

learned Labour Party members in the Falkirk constituency have complained

to the leader of the Scottish party about a lack of action by the Labour

Party on what happened in Falkirk. I am not part of the Scottish party

and that is news to me. But the police have indicated they are

looking at the new information that has come to light. It is a bit like

the 1980s and there was an electrifying moment when Neil

Kinnock took on the militant tendency in Bournemouth in 1985 Ed

Miliband has sort of tried to take on the Unite union, but it has not

worked. Does then not need to be an electrifying moment for Ed Miliband?

Your own paper has praised him for seeking to address the issues we

have in politics and the disconnection from people. In many

respects the situation in Falkirk categorises the process of further

ongoing change where we are trying to establish a better relationship

with individual trade union members. In parts of my constituency, some of

the most deprived parts, we had people queueing round the block to

vote. I do not think the issue is that people are not political, but

they have never felt so far from party politics as they do now and

that is why Ed Miliband announced this big chains about how we do

things in the Labour Party, so we change structures in the Labour

Party that were set up in the 2 th century. The reform of the way in

which we connect and our relationship with the union puts us

in a good position because we have this relationship between the 3

million working people who ensure our public services function. At

Grangemouth INEOS stood up to unite. At Grangemouth and Falkirk

Labour rolled over to the Unite union. I do not agree with that I'd

just explained the reason. I do not think it is fair to ask people to

give evidence in an enquiry on the basis of the report will be

confidential and then to publish it after. But if somebody is trying to

take over a Labour constituency to send an MP of their choice to our

Parliament, that should not be secret, that should be public. Ed

Miliband acted very decisively. That constituency party is still in

special measures as I understand it. This idea that somehow the Unite

union runs the Labour Party, they do not. The special measures mean

according to Eric Joyce, that an ally of Stevie Deans is chairing the

meeting. I am interested in the Tory suggestion that they would offer

free Tory party membership to union members. I then moving onto your

turf? We do not know exactly all the facts and the truth of the

allegations that have been made On your point I think it is healthy the

Conservatives are looking to recruit trade union members. A lot of their

rhetoric is very negative in respect of trade unions. If you look at

Unison a third of the members vote Conservative. In Unite union some of

their members vote Tory. I think trade unions have a lot to bring to

our country. It is one of the things many up and down the country will

find very frustrating, a lot of the good work that unions do if it gets

tarnished with all the negative stuff you see... Unite are working

in partnership with GM and the senior management in Ellesmere Port

and the government ensured that we kept that plant open. That gets

overlooked by all of this. Do you not think the bolshie behaviour from

unions are motivated not by strength, but by weakness. Unite

know they cannot paralyse the country in the way their forebears

used to be able to do. Their penetration rates in the private

sector is 11%. The union movement is weaker than it was before I was

born. Some of that truck killers and bad behaviour either death spasms of

their movement rather than something that is motivated by the fact they

can't paralyse the country. You have two increase the membership. But

there is an issue about the public perception of trade unions. It is

right they should be a voice of protest and anger and stand up for

their members when it is necessary. But people join unions for their

aspiration. The unions do a lot so that people can move up in their

workplace. That profile needs to come across as strongly as the

protest part. I want to move on to business. The head of the CBI has

said that Labour's pro-enterprise credentials have suffered a setback.

He said that in relation to Ed Miliband's speech. I was on the

radio earlier. If you look at the things in the speech, some of that

was going to be uncomfortable for some of the countries and they tend

to be companies represented by the CBI, like energy companies, like

land developers, a lot of the big business lose out from is not doing

the corporate tax cut. The energy freeze is going to help over 2.

million businesses that have been hit by high energy bills. The

business community has said we had to bring the public sector finances

back into balance. That is why we decided to switch the money being

used to reduce corporation tax and use that to help a much greater

variety of businesses by doing a business rate cut. It is all pro

enterprise. They also seem to be critical of your new idea of a

living wage. They are not critical. It would not be compulsory, but

there would be a tax credit if they paid it. It is good for business

because if people are earning more than they are more productive. It is

good for the employee and good for us as well because it means we are

not having to subsidise people to be paid to the extent we have with tax

credits and benefits. Everybody benefits from this. We all know

after 2009 we need to have bold change. Does Labour paid a living

wage? We have got over 20 of our councils signed up to doing so and

we have made commitments in respect to Whitehall. Does the Labour Party

pay it? I believe so. Would it not be worth checking? Do you get a

living wage? Yes, of course I do. I understand we paid a living wage.

What does it feel like for Tristram Hunt who has taken over your mantle

as Labour's next leader? Is that a relieved or are you angry? He is one

of my best friends and at the end of the day if we got obsessed with this

soap opera stuff we would never get anything done and we are working

together to make sure we have got the right skills in our workforce.

That is all for today. The daily politics is on all week. I will be

here again next weekend at 12:2 pm after the Remembrance Day service at

the Cenotaph. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.

Planet Earth - it's unique. It has life.

To understand why, we're going to build a planet...up there.

There were the objects that were making the Earth.

We're now weightless. That's how our planet started.

Your arms are a little bit long Is that as small as they go?

This is like every shopping trip I've ever been on.