Browse content similar to 18/05/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning. Welcome to The Sunday Politics. Just four days to go until | :00:39. | :00:45. | |
election day, and be warned, coming to a street near you, a party leader | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
on a charm offensive. They all want your vote in the European elections | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
on Thursday, and in the local elections across England, too. Polls | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
are all over the place this morning. Your vote could make a | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
difference. This man is 11 points ahead in one poll, he has promised | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
an earthquake on Thursday, but what then? Our Adam has braved the | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
The polls open in four days' campaign trail, he has | :01:12. | :01:23. | |
The polls open in four days' this week, a last look at the euro | :01:24. | :01:25. | |
elections, and the 50th anniversary of the first elections to London's | :01:26. | :01:36. | |
32 boroughs. I am in the studio, with those who think they have got | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
all the big answers. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. So, it | :01:42. | :01:48. | |
is the European elections for everybody on Thursday, local | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
elections for England and a bit of Northern Ireland as well. They are | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
the last elections before the big one, the 2015 general election. Some | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
say that these European and local elections will not be much of a | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
pointer to how the big one goes. But that will not stop political | :02:05. | :02:11. | |
commentators and party gurus from examining them closely. So, what is | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
at stake? Thursday May the 22nd is local elections and European | :02:17. | :02:18. | |
Parliament elections. These local results should be known | :02:19. | :02:42. | |
by Friday. In the European elections, all 751 members of the | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
European Parliament will be elected across Europe. 73 MEPs will be let | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
it by people living in the UK. But the results will not be announced | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
until Sunday night, after voting has closed throughout the 28 member | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
states of the EU. Nick Watt, we are in a position where the polls this | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
morning cannot tell us what the outcome is going to be on Thursday, | :03:07. | :03:09. | |
and the general election is still wide open - we really are in | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
uncharted territory? Also it is difficult to know where we are, | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
because there is that ComRes poll which shows an 11 point lead amongst | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
those certain to vote for UKIP, and another poll in the Sunday Times | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
showing that it is a much more slender lead for UKIP. But we know | :03:27. | :03:34. | |
that will they win? We do not know, but clearly they will unsettle the | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
major parties. Fall or five months ago, we assumed that the UKIP | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
success would create panic in the Conservative Party, but that has | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
been factored into David Cameron's share price. The Conservative Party | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
is remarkably relaxed at the moment, and I wonder whether this time next | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
week, when we have the results, whether the two political leaders | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
who will be under pressure will be Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg. Nick | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
Clegg, because they could go down from 12 MEPs to maybe just three or | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
four. And Ed Miliband, because, one year before a general election, he | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
should be showing that he is a significant, potent electoral | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
force. So, they should all be worried about UKIP, but whereas a | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
couple of months ago, we would all have said David Cameron was the one | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
who should be worried, now, we are saying it is Mr Miliband and Mr | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
Clegg? And of the two, I think it is Ed Miliband who should be worried. | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
The Lib Dems are an incredibly resilient party. He described his | :04:37. | :04:44. | |
own party as cockroaches, and incredible resilience! I think the | :04:45. | :04:54. | |
Lib Dems are ready to take this one, but I think Labour are really wobbly | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
at the moment. What UKIP has done, to England, it means that England | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
has caught up with Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, England | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
now has a four party system, which makes it all the more uncertain what | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
the outcome will be? Yes, but whether UKIP finish first or second, | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
it will be the biggest insurgent event since the European elections | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
began in 1979. People talk about the Greens in 1989, but I think they | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
finished third. Were UKIP to win a national election or even finish | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
runner-up, it would be truly historic. It is reflecting on | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
something which is happening across Europe, pianist in Italy, Holland, | :05:36. | :05:42. | |
France and in this country. -- populist parties. And it makes first | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
past the post look absolutely ridiculous. You could be in a | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
situation after the next general election where Labour do not get the | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
largest percentage of the vote but they get the largest number of | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
seats. First past the post works fairly if there are only two | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
parties, but when there are four... We will talk more about that. Let's | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
speak now to Suzanne Evans of UKIP. She is at Westminster. Now, UKIP | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
claims that there is going to be an earthquake in British politics on | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
Thursday. Suppose there is, what does UKIP then need to do to become | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
a more grown-up, proper party? I think UKIP has very much become a | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
grown-up, proper party. We have been around for 20 years. What we are | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
going to be doing after the European elections, if we do cause this | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
earthquake, and the polls are looking like we are going to, is we | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
will be firmly looking towards 2015, getting our general election | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
manifesto out, to keep those votes on board from the euro elections and | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
putting forward common-sense policies which really will bring | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
Britain back to the people. We want to be able to hold the balance of | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
power come the general election. If we can do that then there will be a | :06:59. | :07:09. | |
referendum. That will be our aim. You say you are a more grown-up | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
party, but when you look at the stream of gaffes and controversies | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
created by your candidates and members, I will not go into them | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
this morning, at the very least, I would suggest you are needing a more | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
robust system of selection? You could say the same for the other | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
three parties, who have been around for a lot longer. They have got | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
nothing like the embarrassments you had. I am afraid they had. Just this | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
week, since Monday, we have had 17 Liberal Democrat, labour or | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
Conservative councillors either arrested, charged or convicted on | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
all manner of offences. In addition we have had 13 who have been | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
involved in some kind of racist, sexist or homophobic incident. I am | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
not saying I am proud of any of that. The whole of politics probably | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
needs to be cleaned up, but I certainly do not think we are any | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
worse than the other parties, who have much greater resources than we | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
do. Those other parties are even putting people in power who they | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
know have got criminal convictions or who have previously belonged to | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
far right, fascist parties like the BNP. Can you continue to be a | :08:18. | :08:24. | |
one-man band? The only time any other UKIP petition makes the | :08:25. | :08:26. | |
headlines is when they say something loony or objectionable? We have a | :08:27. | :08:34. | |
huge amount of talent in this party. We have fantastic spokespeople | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
across the patch, the huge amount of expertise in the party. Inevitably | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
the media focuses on Nigel Farage, who is a fantastic, charismatic | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
leader. But believe me, there is a huge amount of talent. When we get | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
our MEPs into power after the European elections, we will see many | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
more of them I think on television and radio and in the newspapers. We | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
are not a one-man band. Who runs your party? The party is run by | :09:05. | :09:11. | |
Nigel Farage, our leader. But he spends all his time running between | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
television studios and in and out of the pub! You would be amazed how | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
much he does, and of course we have a National Executive Committee, like | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
the other parties. So who runs it? The National Executive Committee, in | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
conjunction with Nigel Farage, the MEPs, the spokespeople, it is a | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
joint effort. Your Local Government Minister Stosur is, if you vote | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
UKIP, you go on to pledge that your councillors will not toe the party | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
line, how does that work? -- your local government manifesto says... | :09:46. | :09:53. | |
On the main policies, they will toe the party line, because that is | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
obviously what people will be voting for. It is no good putting forward a | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
manifesto like the Lib Dems did on 2010 and going back on it. We have | :10:02. | :10:09. | |
put forward a lot of positive -- a lot of policies at local government | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
level, and those we will stick to. But when it comes to individual, | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
local issues, say, a particular development or the closure of a | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
school, whatever, UKIP then will vote what they think is in the best | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
interests of the people in the borough, and not according to any | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
party whip system. This plays out really well on the doorstep, I find. | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
People do not want their politicians to be in the pockets of their | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
party, putting party first, ahead of the people. You want people to vote | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
to leave the European Union in a referendum - have you published a | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
road map as to what would then happen? Yes, there will be a road | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
map. The Lisbon Treaty for the first time gave us that exit opportunity. | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
Have you published a road map? I am not the legal expert on this but | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
there are ways in which you can come out of Europe fairly quickly. There | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
is a longer you all as well. But have you published any of that | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
detail? Not that I have read. But certainly there are ways to do it. | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
We are the sixth strongest world economy, I think we are in a strong | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
position having left the EU to be able to negotiate a very good trade | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
deal with the European Union. It is what people voted for in 1975. What | :11:26. | :11:33. | |
would be our exact status? It would be I think what people voted for | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
back in 1975. An independent, sovereign country in a trade | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
agreement, a very positive and valuable trade agreement with the | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
European Union. I voted in that referendum, I remember it well, 1975 | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
involved the free movement of people 's... That is something which I do | :11:51. | :11:59. | |
not think UKIP or the country wants. 70% of people now are deeply | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
concerned about immigration. So it would not be 1975, then? Andrew, it | :12:04. | :12:11. | |
sounds like you are complaining that we might have something which is | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
better than 1975. I am just trying to find out what it is! That sounds | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
like positive to me. We will negotiate a trade deal and all | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
manner of issues, whatever is best for the British people. We want our | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
sovereignty back, we want our country back. Would you be upset if | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
a bunch of Rumanian men moved in next door to you? Where I live, I am | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
surrounded by one and two-bedroom flats. If ten Rumanian men moved in | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
next door to me, I would want to ask questions. That is very different | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
from say a Robinho family moving in next door. I would think, are they | :12:49. | :12:58. | |
being ripped off, are they up to no good or are they perhaps being | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
trafficked by a gang master? So I think it would be of concern, and I | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
do not think there is anything wrong with that, it is a humanitarian | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
approach. That would be different from a family moving in who were | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
learning to speak English, who wanted to contribute to the British | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
economy. Maybe if your boss is watching, he will now have found out | :13:18. | :13:19. | |
how to answer that question. Now, what is more glamorous, 24 | :13:20. | :13:35. | |
hours in the life of a counter-terrorism agent, or 12 hours | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
in the life of Adam Fleming, on the campaign trail? I will let you make | :13:39. | :13:46. | |
up your own mind. So, it is eight o'clock in the morning here in | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
Westminster. Today's challenge is, how much campaigning for the local | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
and European elections can we fit into 12 hours? See you back here at | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
eight o'clock tonight. Wish me luck. With my cameraman and | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
producer, we went to Thurrock in Essex first. I got a very, very warm | :14:05. | :14:12. | |
welcome from Abe buoyant UKIP. They have never had this much attention. | :14:13. | :14:23. | |
One candidate's misdemeanour ends up on the front page. But you have got | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
Lib Dem candidates being convicted of racially aggravated assault, and | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
that was not on the front pages of the newspapers. Houdini is fine but | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
it must be applied evenly. Have you had to sack Thurrock UKIP members | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
for dodgy tweets or anything? Oh, God, no. Next we head to meet a top | :14:42. | :14:50. | |
Tory in a different area. We are heading to Eastbourne. But stuck in | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
traffic. We are going to miss William Hague. We got there, just in | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
time, to ask the really big questions. David Cameron went to | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
Nando De Colo last week, where are you going to go for lunch? I do not | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
even get time for lunch. I think something in the back of the car. We | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
will go down the street and see what people have got to say. Even the | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
Foreign Secretary has depressed the flesh at election time? Even the | :15:21. | :15:22. | |
Foreign Secretary meets real people. The message William Hague impresses | :15:23. | :15:38. | |
upon everyone he meets is that the Tories are the only party offering a | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
referendum on our membership of the EU. He's off for lunch in the limo. | :15:43. | :15:50. | |
I've got five minutes by the beach. This is the best thing about | :15:51. | :15:58. | |
elections, lunch. Do you want one? And chips are weirdly relevant at | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
our next stop - the Green Party battle bus which is parked in | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
Ashford in Kent. What is special about this vehicle? It runs from | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
chip fat oil so it is more friendly to the environment. But boss was | :16:11. | :16:20. | |
boiling. The next stop is Gillingham to see Labour. Labour have just | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
hired Barack Obama's election guru David Axelrod to help them craft | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
their message. What does David Axelrod know about the people who | :16:34. | :16:41. | |
live on the street? I know the local details but you handle those. Ed | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
Miliband and his party have had to handle a few dodgy opinion polls | :16:48. | :16:50. | |
lately, prompting some leadership speculation from one activist. Who | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
is your favourite Labour politician? Ed Balls. Back in the car and we're | :16:55. | :17:06. | |
flagging. Final stop, Southwark in south London. We are in the right | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
place, this is Simon Hughes' Lib Dem taxi. The Lib Dems are campaigning | :17:13. | :17:19. | |
as the party of in. But are they in trouble? Your party president said | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
the party would be wiped out and lose its MEPs. Is that helpful? If | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
he did say that, then no, that's not terribly helpful. And let's not | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
forget, every London council is having elections too. I have 40 | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
minutes to get back to the office in Westminster, which calls for | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
something drastic, like this. After 212 miles, but will be make it home | :17:49. | :17:56. | |
for eight? We have made it, aided, 12 hours of pure politics. Happy | :17:57. | :18:09. | |
elections, everyone. Adam Fleming impersonating Jack | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
Bauer! Natalie Bennett is in our studio, welcome back. The Greens | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
used to be the upcoming party in Britain, now it is UKIP. What went | :18:21. | :18:29. | |
wrong? We are in a very good place, looking towards travelling our MEPs | :18:30. | :18:37. | |
and we could be the fourth largest group in Parliament after these | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
elections. More and more people are recognising we are the only party | :18:42. | :18:44. | |
calling for real change, the only party saying we have two stop making | :18:45. | :18:51. | |
poor, disadvantaged young people over the mistakes bankers. You have | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
made a strong pro-environment stands synonymous with the politics of the | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
left, why have you done that? Why should an equal minded Conservative | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
vote for you? I think one of the reasons why many Conservatives, I | :19:09. | :19:16. | |
met them in Chester where they are stopping coalbed methane | :19:17. | :19:19. | |
exploration, lots of Conservatives are looking to vote for us beyond | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
issues like fracking and the Green belt, and many of them are concerned | :19:26. | :19:28. | |
about the fact we haven't reformed the banks. This morning we had the | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
Bank of England chief coming out and saying we have a huge house price | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
bubble and people recognise that many of the parties offering the | :19:41. | :19:47. | |
same are not working. And yet the polls show that the hardline | :19:48. | :19:57. | |
greenery is not winning. We are looking to travel our number of MEPs | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
and we have people recognising that we have to change the way our | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
economic 's, politics and society works so that everyone has | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
sufficient resources within the limits of the one planet because one | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
planet is all we have got. You want all electricity to be generated by | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
renewables, is that right? So where would the electricity come from on | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
days when the wind is not blowing? Most of the electricity is there. It | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
is mature. We need to be hooked into a European wide grid, we need a | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
smart grid that will allow for demand to be adjusted according to | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
supply. So we would take French nuclear power, would we? We need to | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
work with a partnership across Europe. We are being left behind and | :20:50. | :21:00. | |
we are losing opportunities. 50% of German renewable electricity is | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
owned by communities and it stays within communities, rather than the | :21:05. | :21:14. | |
big six energy companies. So you have still got to take the French | :21:15. | :21:25. | |
nuclear power. What we need to do... Nuclear is a dead technology, | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
going down in the developed world. At the moment the Government | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
proposes the most expensive proposal for Britain and yet the last two | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
plans took 17 years to bring online, way too slow for what we need now. | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
We know what the Green council would be like if you were to win more | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
seats on Thursday because you run Brighton. Your own Green MP joined | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
strikers against the council, the local Greens are at each other's | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
throats, a council ridden with factionalism, attempts to raise | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
council tax to 5%, attempted coups against the local Green leader by | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
other Greens and you have had to bring in mediators. If you look at | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
the life of people in Brighton and Hove, it has seen its visitor | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
numbers go up by 50,000, it has become the top seaside resort in | :22:23. | :22:29. | |
Britain, we have seen GCSE results going up significantly. These are | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
the things affecting people's lives in Brighton and Hove. 60% of | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
Brighton and Hove people think life is better and the Greens. We have a | :22:39. | :22:46. | |
debate to be had from next year's election and perhaps we can have | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
that debate next year. But you hold up Brighton as the way the city | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
should be run? We have made huge progress, we have found money to be | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
brought into the city to improve Green spaces. I was on the big ride | :23:01. | :23:09. | |
in London yesterday, and we need to change our roads so they worked the | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
people as well as cars. Which side of the picket line were you on in | :23:14. | :23:22. | |
Brighton? With Caroline Lucas? I was in London, travelling around as I do | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
most days. From Penzance to Newcastle and many areas in between. | :23:28. | :23:34. | |
Probably a good move. Thank you. I'm joined now by the Conservative MP, | :23:35. | :24:09. | |
the Lib Dem MP Simon Hughes and Sajid Javid. We want to see a | :24:10. | :24:19. | |
European Union resolutely focused on the single market, free trade, and | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
only we can bring about that change. Labour and Lib Dems are happy with | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
the status quo, in fact they would like more integration, and a UKIP | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
party can not deliver the change. Hilary Benn, at this stage positions | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
usually romp home in European elections and no party has gone on | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
to form a government without winning the European elections first. Now it | :24:44. | :24:50. | |
suggests you could become second, you haven't handled UKIP very well | :24:51. | :24:57. | |
either. There is a lot of alienation from politics around, globalisation | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
has left some behind and people are concerned about that but UKIP will | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
not provide the answer. Nigel Farage only talks about Europe. We are to | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
hear it would not be in the interests of British people to come | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
out of Europe. We do want a season change in Europe, for example we | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
want longer periods when new member states come in. We don't think child | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
tax credits should be paid to children not living in the UK, but | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
Nigel Farage is also proposing to charge us when we see the GP, to | :25:32. | :25:38. | |
halve maternity pay, and he wants a flat tax. UKIP is not the answer to | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
the problems we face and we will continue to campaign as we have done | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
to show that we are putting forward policies on energy prices, and in | :25:48. | :25:57. | |
the end that is what people will look for. Simon Hughes, you will be | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
lucky to come forth. The voters decide these things. Really? I never | :26:04. | :26:10. | |
knew that. My response to the UKIP question is that they get support | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
because they have never been in power, they are never likely. A bit | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
like the way you used to never get into power. I accept that, but now | :26:20. | :26:29. | |
we are in government. The reality is that laws made in Brussels, we make | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
together by agreement, and it is the case from the Commons figures that | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
only seven out of 100 laws are made in Brussels. Actually they have been | :26:40. | :26:49. | |
shown not to be the only ones. 14 out of 100. If we were to come out | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
of Europe, we would seriously disadvantage our economics and the | :26:55. | :27:04. | |
jobs... 3 million jobs depend on the European Union. If the Conservatives | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
comes third or even a poor second, it will show that people don't | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
really trust your promise about European referendum. They have been | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
there before, they don't trust you. What we have already shown, despite | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
being in coalition with Liberal Democrats, we have shown progress on | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
Europe, we have vetoed a European treaty when people said we | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
wouldn't, we have cut the European budget which is something Liberal | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
Democrats and Labour MEPs voted against, we cut it by ?8 billion. | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
But overall we are still paying more. We have still cut it. We have | :27:42. | :27:50. | |
taken Britain out of the bailout fund that Labour signed us up to. We | :27:51. | :27:57. | |
are now going to take that same energy to Europe and renegotiate our | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
relationship and let the British people decide in a referendum. Why | :28:02. | :28:11. | |
has Ed Miliband become such a liability for your party? Even your | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
own MPs are speaking out against him. If you look at the polls, we | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
have been in the lead almost consistently. The voters will | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
decide. Ed Miliband is a decent man, but what really marks him out is | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
that he is thinking about the problems the country faces. Simon | :28:31. | :28:39. | |
and Sajid both support the bedroom tax, we will scrap it. Ed Miliband | :28:40. | :28:48. | |
said the energy market doesn't work for consumers, we will freeze energy | :28:49. | :28:57. | |
prices while we change the system. So why are his ratings even lower | :28:58. | :29:06. | |
than Nick Clegg's? They will be voted for next year in the general | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
election, and if I were David Cameron I would ask myself this | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
question - the economy is recovering, why is it that David | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
Cameron and the Conservatives have been behind in the polls? Because in | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
the end the big choice in British politics is between the two parties | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
that say, if we sought the deficit everything is fine, and Labour who | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
say that there are things about this country, the insecurity that has | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
given rise for support for UKIP, and we are the ones talking about doing | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
something about zero hours contracts. The more your leader | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
bangs on about Europe, the worse your poll ratings get. He is out of | :29:50. | :29:59. | |
the kilter with British people. It may not be a majority of people who | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
think that we ought to stay in the European Union, but when you speak | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
to people about it, people understand that we are better in | :30:10. | :30:12. | |
them out. In the elections on Thursday, that is not about who runs | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
Britain, that is for next year. In terms of the local councils, we have | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
battles on the ground, like in my community, where we are trying to | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
take it back from the Labour Party. Affordable housing has just not been | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
delivered. We have delivered that in office and we had admitted to that. | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
-- we are committed to that. Labour have actually demolished homes. So, | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
people want more affordable homes. One issue which is behind people's | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
antipathy towards immigrants is that they cannot get the affordable | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
housing they need. We as a government have delivered more | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
affordable housing in this Parliament -170,000 new properties | :30:56. | :30:58. | |
earning and more, over the next three years. That does not work out | :30:59. | :31:10. | |
that very many per year. Overall housing is a lot less than it was in | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
2006. Let me tell you, under the Labour government, we lost nearly | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
half a million affordable homes. Fewer built than under Mrs Thatcher | :31:20. | :31:26. | |
or under the coalition. What is your last ditch message to the millions | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
of Tory voters thinking of voting UKIP on Thursday? First, what I | :31:31. | :31:38. | |
would say is, Ed Miliband also said that we should not tackle the | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
deficit, it was not a priority. As a result of our resolute focus, we now | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
have the fastest growing economy in the developed world, and more people | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
employed than ever before. I am sure you will have more chance to say | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
that at the general election, what is the answer to my question? We | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
need a Europe which is focused on free trade and the single market. | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
Labour and Lib Dems are happy with the status quo, we are not. We are | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
the only party which can bring about change, UKIP cannot bring about any | :32:09. | :32:15. | |
change. Hilary Benn, why not have a referendum on Europe? If you think | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
like Nigel Farage that you should get out of Europe, I do not agree | :32:22. | :32:24. | |
with him, because Britain's future lies in Europe. My message simply | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
would be, vote for a party which wants to tackle insecurity in the | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
workplace, to give more security to the 9 million people who are now | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
privately renting, build more homes. What Simon has just said about the | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
coalition's housing record, it has been appalling, the lowest level | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
since Stanley Baldwin was Prime Minister. With Labour, you have got | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
a party which will freeze energy prices, more childcare, policies | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
which directly address the problems which people face. I think the | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
public will realise that. UKIP offers absolutely nothing at all for | :33:03. | :33:05. | |
the future of the country. You used to be in favour of a referendum? We | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
are in favour, we voted for one, we have legislated for one. The next | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
time there is a change between Britain and Europe, in the | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
relationship, there will be a referendum. We have supported that. | :33:19. | :33:25. | |
We voted for it. You would obviously want to vote yes in any referendum. | :33:26. | :33:32. | |
We would. But if you had one now, it would be for coming out or staying | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
in, and you are going to wait until there is another step son shall | :33:39. | :33:40. | |
transfer of powers to Brussels, and then say to people, either vote for | :33:41. | :33:50. | |
this substantial transfer or vote to leave! Of course they will vote to | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
leave! Yes, we are not natural partners with the Conservatives, but | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
we do not want to be distracted at the moment by a referendum in the | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
future in relation to Europe. Because what we have done is built | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
our own economy back. That has been the priority. We do not want | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
artificial priorities. The Tories want an artificial date plucked out | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
of the air for their own advantage. We say, let's get on with being | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
positive about being in Europe, and many people on the doorstep | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
absolutely understand that. Yesterday, the Energy Minister said | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
that he thought the party would be willing to campaign for a British | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
withdrawal from the EU if there was not a successful negotiation, a | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
successful repatriation, do you agree with that? First of all, I am | :34:42. | :34:52. | |
very optimistic... I got that I am going into these negotiations with | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
confidence but Michael Fallon is one of your ministerial colleagues, he | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
said that if we cannot get a deal on substantial repatriation, then the | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
party should be willing to campaign for a British withdrawal - do you | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
agree? My view is that I am confident we will get a deal, and | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
then we will put it to the British people. But you will have to take a | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
line. If you do not get substantial repatriations, will you side with | :35:22. | :35:24. | |
Michael Fallon all with the Prime Minister, who seems to want to stay | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
in regardless? I may only have been in politics for four years, but I am | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
not going to ask that kind of hypothetical question. Every | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
question I ask is hypothetical, that is the fascination of the programme! | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
I go into these negotiations with complete confidence. If you look at | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
our track record, it suggests we will be successful. Hilary Benn, | :35:47. | :35:54. | |
what is the difference between your attitude and that of the Lib Dems | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
towards a referendum? We have been very clear that if it is proposed at | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
sometime in the future, further powers would be transferred, then, | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
we would put that to the British people in a referendum. That is the | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
Lib Dem position. This is our position, which I am planing to you. | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
It would be an in-out referendum. We would only agree to a transfer of | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
powers if we thought that it was in the interest of Britain. But we | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
believe that Britain's place remains and should remain in Europe, for | :36:28. | :36:34. | |
economic reasons. But we also want to see some changes in our | :36:35. | :36:41. | |
relationship with Europe, and electing Labour MEPs on Thursday | :36:42. | :36:43. | |
will be a way of boosting that argument. In what way is everything | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
you have just said not entirely sell my must with the Lib Dem position? I | :36:51. | :36:57. | |
am not worried about that. -- entirely synonymous. It is the | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
dividing line between us and UKIP, because they somehow believe that | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
Britain leaving the European Union would be good for our economy. Truth | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
is, it would be really bad, because so many jobs depend on being part of | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
a large market in an increasingly globalised world. I have got one | :37:17. | :37:27. | |
more question for you on the locals. We seem to have lost our connection | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
with Leeds. What is the single most important reason that people should | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
vote for you in the local election? Because taxpayers' money is just | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
that, it does not belong to the politicians, and we can do a lot | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
more and get more for less with taxpayers money. If you look at | :37:45. | :37:47. | |
Conservative councils up and down the country, most of them have not | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
been raising council tax, they have been getting more for less, and that | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
is what people deserve. We will produce the maximum amount possible | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
of affordable housing to meet the housing needs of Britain, instead of | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
the richest minority having flats and houses that nobody can afford. | :38:03. | :38:10. | |
We seem to have lost Hilary Benn. I can answer for him. I will do it - | :38:11. | :38:17. | |
he would certainly say, vote Labour. You are watching The Sunday | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who now leave us for | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
Sunday Politics Scotland. a on Sunday Politics in Wales we | :38:25. | :38:43. | |
rode off our European election coverage the lead candidates from | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
the Conservative and Labour. With nursing in the spotlight, are | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
we training enough nurses in Wales? First, voting in the European | :38:55. | :38:57. | |
election takes place on Thursday. It is five years since Wales last went | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
to the polls to elect its MEPs. When votes were counted at the last | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
European elections Labour had failed to secure the biggest share of the | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
vote in Wales for the first time since 1918. The Conservatives topped | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
the poll, propping a celebratory visit to Cardiff by the then leader | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
of the opposition, David Cameron. Liber won the second seat. Light | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
Cymru took the third, with UKIP taking the fourth seed and getting | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
its first ever elected representative in Wales. The Liberal | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
Democrats again failed to win European seat in Wales. | :39:36. | :39:42. | |
Case when Byrne has been an MEP since 2009. She is the lead | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
Conservative candidate in Wales and joins me now. | :39:47. | :39:53. | |
You have been saying in this election campaign that people should | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
not use this election as a protest vote against the UK government, but | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
it is a protest vote against the last Labour government which give it | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
that success we have just seen in 2009. | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
I think national politics play into people's intentions, but European | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
elections are important in their own right and so national politics to | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
play a part in sentiment, but it is important to understand that this is | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
about four people who will stand up for Wales in Brussels for the next | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
five years, rather than this being about sending a message to | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
Westminster. Given that the elections are only one year apart, | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
hopefully we can differentiate between them, and the five-year | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
period when MEPs will work in Brussels can be the focus. | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
Let's talk about the big European issues. David Cameron has put on the | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
agenda and referendum on the UK's membership of the EU. He wants to | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
renegotiate Britain's's relationship. What does that mean? | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
What the Conservatives want to change? | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
We're running a campaign on reform, renegotiation and a referendum. | :41:08. | :41:15. | |
What does that mean? Reform and renegotiation of things | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
that we have been doing, certainly I have been doing, every single time I | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
have worked on a piece of legislation over the last five | :41:23. | :41:25. | |
years. Reform of the Common Agricultural Policy, reform of the | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
fisheries policy, reform of the budget. We have had an historic | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
negotiation with a budget of the European Union has been cut for the | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
first time ever for the next seven years. Not only that, but the way in | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
which the money is distributed to projects that support jobs and | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
growth has also been reformed. If you are able to reform these | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
things and get your way in Brussels and Strasbourg, then why do we need | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
to renegotiate Britain's's relationship with the EU? | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
There are big things we need to put into a new treaty as and when it | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
comes about. That is about things like social employment legislation. | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
At the moment we have a lot of things coming from Brussels in this | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
area, and for me it is not a case of one size fits all. Or employers need | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
flexibility in workforces. For me it is important that we maintain | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
national control over those issues. Pulling out of what used to be | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
called the social chapter? You want to get rid of that? | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
Tony Blair give a veto on that, by one that reinstated. | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
That provides things like protection for workers and maternity cover. | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
Want to get rid of that? The UK does that already, we already | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
have high standards in the United Kingdom. This is not about having | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
one size across Europe. Been standards across Europe are fine, | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
but having them control the exact level? There is talk of a European | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
minimum wage. That is inappropriate when there is such a disparity | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
between wealth among the member countries. It does not work, and so | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
member states sometimes are better at setting these rules. | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
Unless you can repatriate those policy areas, you think we should | :43:22. | :43:27. | |
pull out of the EU? We're not the only ones saying there | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
should be a renegotiation. Recently at a discussion in Brussels a very | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
senior ambassador in the EU to the Netherlands said to me, you are not | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
leading this as conservatives in the United Kingdom, we are, in the | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
Netherlands. We have already published a list of things we think | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
should be repatriated to the Netherlands. | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
You are looking for allies, aren't you? Does the French presidency has | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
made this clear that this is not a priority. You are up against it. | :43:58. | :44:05. | |
We are. The reality of renegotiating a | :44:06. | :44:08. | |
treaty is a big ask. You have 27 other countries to convince. | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
Absolutely, but we do that every day, and the European Union is about | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
trying to find compromises and solutions that work for everybody. | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
Is that why he has not been very specific, because he knows that the | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
chances of getting what he really wants are so slim? | :44:27. | :44:32. | |
It is the opposite. If you put all your cards on the table you want | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
because you have already shown your hand. | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
It is not poker, is it? It is a hugely important issue. And people | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
want to know, what is the alternative? If it is in, and | :44:47. | :44:55. | |
referendum, what does I won't mean? -- what does coming out mine? | :44:56. | :45:02. | |
Will have growth and competitiveness built into a new treaty. In terms of | :45:03. | :45:12. | |
the timing it will fit with the need for a Euro zone treaty change. We | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
are of the mandate for the saving of the euro during the last few years, | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
and I have had to work on that, so I know the change is coming. But I am | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
not talking about coming out, I am talking about renegotiation being | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
successful. If it is not, and if there is a | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
referendum on things as they are at the moment, would you vote in or | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
out? It is not that simple. | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
It is. David Cameron has said he will renegotiate and then put it to | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
the people. If we negotiation fails, then what? | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
There is a balance of competencies review going on which will gather | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
information in a completely unpolitical way. It will gather | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
information on what is best done nationally and at a European level. | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
That is being done by civil servants in Whitehall. When we have that | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
information we will be able to look carefully at what needs to come | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
back. If there was a referendum tomorrow, | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
you can't tell us what you would vote? | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
Until we know the outcome of the balance of competencies, it is | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
difficult to say. We don't know what the alternative is yet either. That | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
is why we say there will be a referendum for the people of Wales, | :46:33. | :46:35. | |
the people of United Kingdom by the end of 2017. | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
We saw that you topped the poll last time. What will success look like | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
this time? Opinion polls say that you will not repeat that success. | :46:46. | :46:54. | |
Wales only has four MEPs. I really just want to be one of those four | :46:55. | :47:00. | |
MEPs. I do believe I have given a strong voice for Wales in the last | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
five years and I hope that the people of Wales will want to return | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
me so that I have that voice to fight for Welsh issues. | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
How much support are you losing to UKIP? | :47:13. | :47:19. | |
We don't know. The polls are very divergent at the moment. People | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
understand the need for reform of the EU, they also recognise that the | :47:24. | :47:30. | |
European Union has gone in a direction that many people don't | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
want. We believe we can renegotiate. | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
Like you very much for joining us, Kay Swinburne. | :47:38. | :47:44. | |
Polling day is four days away. There are four Welsh seats up for | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
grabs in the European election. Here and across the rest of the UK, | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
voting will take place next Thursday, May 22. But we won't know | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
who has won until next Sunday evening, that's because voting has | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
to be finished across the EU before any results can be declared. In the | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
polling booth, there is one vote for your party of choice. The four Welsh | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
seats will be distributed based on the number of votes cast. The | :48:09. | :48:11. | |
parties have already decided which candidate would be elected if they | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
win one, two or more seats. The MEPs will represent Wales in the | :48:16. | :48:18. | |
Parliament for the next five years. They will help to decide and oversee | :48:19. | :48:26. | |
the EU's annual 135.5bn euro budget. About two thirds of that budget goes | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
on farming subsidies and aid for the EU's poorest regions, including | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
Wales, and our MEPs draw up laws in lots of areas including consumer | :48:34. | :48:36. | |
policy, the environment, culture and public health. Postal voting is | :48:37. | :48:44. | |
already under way. We won't know who has been elected and who has not | :48:45. | :48:47. | |
made it until late next Sunday night or the early hours of Monday | :48:48. | :48:57. | |
morning. My next guest is Labour's lead | :48:58. | :49:05. | |
candidate in the election. A man who I dare say hopes to top the poll | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
next week. I will begin with the question I asked my last guest, is | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
UKIP making life difficult for Labour as well? | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
We are not picking up great support for UKIP on the doorstep. I think | :49:20. | :49:22. | |
some of it may be hidden, some people may be embarrassed to say | :49:23. | :49:29. | |
they are planning to vote for an extreme right-wing party and when we | :49:30. | :49:37. | |
explain to people that some of UKIP's policies involve scrapping | :49:38. | :49:39. | |
workers rights, scrapping pensions, large increases in tax for ordinary | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
people, legalising handguns, many people say they didn't know that. | :49:46. | :49:51. | |
What will success look like for Labour? Will you win a second seed? | :49:52. | :50:01. | |
We can win that second seat, and there is great enthusiasm among | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
party members to campaign for that second seat. Yesterday there were | :50:06. | :50:12. | |
hundreds of Labour Party members out across Wales. We have knocked twice | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
as many doors as in 2009, and delivered twice as many leaflets, so | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
we can win a second seat, but it does depend on the turnout. So we | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
will encourage voters to come out and vote for us. | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
You have been encouraging voters to send a message to the UK | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
government. Do you not worry that they will want to send a message to | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
the Welsh government about schools and hospitals? | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
I think many people recognise that many of the cuts we have in Wales | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
are cuts made on the Welsh budget by the UK government. A cut on money | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
going to the Welsh government by the UK government will have consequences | :50:57. | :50:59. | |
in terms of services. That is what you tell people, it is | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
not Labour's fault? I think most people accept that, and | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
they want to send a message to the UK government that they are fed up | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
with cuts on the one hand and the cost of living prices on the other. | :51:13. | :51:20. | |
I talked about the Conservative stance on a referendum, and it is | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
something that Ed Milibands. About. Do you think it is likely? It seems | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
a bit vague. This is not about a referendum, it | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
is about sending the four best people to Brussels. | :51:35. | :51:41. | |
There will be a referendum before the powers go back, but that is | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
unlikely to happen? Is that really the clarity that voters want? | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
If there is a chance for Paris for member states, we will have a | :51:52. | :51:59. | |
referendum at a later stage. If David Cameron is Prime Minister, | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
there will be a referendum. Your position is, if Ed Miliband is Prime | :52:04. | :52:08. | |
Minister, there may or may not be a referendum. | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
The Conservatives have set an arbitrary date. What they try to | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
renegotiate powers and feel? Will be still have a referendum? It is a | :52:18. | :52:24. | |
mistake to set this arbitrary date. It has been said that a referendum | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
could imperil Wales if Wales board is one way and the rest of the UK | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
votes another way, that could be bad for the United Kingdom. Do you | :52:35. | :52:36. | |
agree? Absolutely. | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
Why is Labour offering a referendum, then? | :52:43. | :52:48. | |
We are also saying that when that referendum comes, we will argue | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
strongly for the UK to maintain its membership of the European Union cos | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
we know there are millions of jobs in the UK that depend on trade with | :52:57. | :53:01. | |
the EU, and many jobs in Wales. There are many big companies who all | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
say it is vital that we retain membership of the European Union | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
otherwise some of those companies will move abroad and will job | :53:10. | :53:17. | |
losses. Wales has received billions of | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
pounds of funding from the EU. It is the Labour Party, the Welsh | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
government, but spent that money. Hasn't been well spent? | :53:27. | :53:32. | |
It is widely recognised that myself and the Welsh governance have | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
negotiated an increase in the funding we will get. | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
I am asking where it has all gone. First we have to get the money, and | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
we have to make sure that money is spent wisely in the future. That is | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
why the Welsh governance has been consulting with business, trade | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
unions, the voluntary sector map about the type of projects we should | :53:54. | :53:56. | |
be funding in the future to make sure they have a big economic impact | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
for Wales. I am asking you about the last ten | :54:01. | :54:06. | |
or 15 years, whereas the money gone? Because the Welsh economy has | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
not climbed up the prosperity table in that time. | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
In the first round we perhaps funded to many projects. Refunded around | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
3000 projects at that stage. This time we funded around 300 much | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
bigger projects and over time we will see the impact of that. | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
Is it too much to ask that people should see the benefits already? | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
I think we are starting to see the benefit. The unemployment rate in | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
Wales is about the same as the UK. Youth unemployment in Wales is lower | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
than the UK, and that has not happened at many times in the | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
history. So projects that have provided opportunities for young | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
people are starting to have an impact, and over time we will see | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
more of an impact because of the projects we have funded with you | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
money. The EU itself measures these things | :55:04. | :55:09. | |
on GDP per head. The most recent figures show that Wales has slipped | :55:10. | :55:16. | |
down the league table despite having billions of pounds of EU money. Why | :55:17. | :55:20. | |
has that happened? These figures are relative figures. | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
Sometimes the type of projects that are funded by the EU will take a | :55:26. | :55:32. | |
long time to show an impact. A very long time. | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
The impact is starting to be seen in terms of unemployment. In terms of | :55:39. | :55:45. | |
infrastructure, training, education, research and development funding, | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
all these things will take time, but we are confident that eventually | :55:50. | :55:51. | |
these will have a big impact in Wales and we will see our GDP rising | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
as well as the better unemployment rates that we already see. | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
Can you be more specific on the kind of changes that will be implemented | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
to make sure money is better spent? Will spend more money on larger | :56:07. | :56:09. | |
infrastructure schemes and that is good because those schemes give | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
people work straightaway but also improve the economic competitiveness | :56:16. | :56:19. | |
of a region in the long-term. But we also need to make sure there is | :56:20. | :56:22. | |
money available for training and education schemes. Still money for | :56:23. | :56:32. | |
universities, for rural areas. Wales' funding is absolutely vital | :56:33. | :56:40. | |
for our future prosperity. Derek Vaughan, thank you very much | :56:41. | :56:44. | |
indeed. You can get more information about the Welsh candidates standing | :56:45. | :56:50. | |
for election from our websites. Welsh hospitals are facing a | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
shortage of nurses which could compromise patient care. There are | :56:55. | :57:00. | |
also concerns that recent reports of poor standards could damage | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
recruitment. The Welsh government's chief nursing officer says enough | :57:06. | :57:11. | |
nurses are being trained. Images of nurses through the | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
decades, caring, compassionate, sometimes called Angels. But recent | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
complaints about poor care maybe denting that image. | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
Nurses are taking the blame very often, they have been put in a | :57:28. | :57:30. | |
position where they are set up to fail. | :57:31. | :57:37. | |
At this organisation they are discussing numbers. They say the | :57:38. | :57:40. | |
Welsh government has underestimated the number of training places over | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
the last few years which means there are not enough qualified nurses to | :57:45. | :57:51. | |
feel vacancies. Bad practice can't be tolerated says the union's | :57:52. | :57:58. | |
director, but staffing pressures can be a factor behind poor care. | :57:59. | :58:08. | |
We are hearing about poor care, and we have to get it right for the | :58:09. | :58:11. | |
profession and for the patients. We cannot continue to have what we | :58:12. | :58:18. | |
would want to be a platinum service of NHS delivery if you did not have | :58:19. | :58:26. | |
the resource to do that. The Welsh government's chief nursing | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
officer denies there is a shortage, and despite some problems, she is | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
keen to emphasise that the outlook overall is good. | :58:35. | :58:42. | |
I feel that the image of nursing might be being tarnished because of | :58:43. | :58:44. | |
some of the stories we have heard. Reality is very different. We do | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
have real excellence in nursing care, not only in Wales but in other | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
parts of the UK, and we need to keep a balanced view on that. We have had | :58:55. | :59:01. | |
reports that show failures, therefore everybody must be feeling, | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
that is not the case. He reports this week about feelings | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
and to Welsh hospitals highlighted examples of poor care on the war. | :59:09. | :59:15. | |
There was not criticism just of nurses, but other staff and | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
management also. But for nurses on the front line, there is concern | :59:20. | :59:23. | |
that this is another blow for morale. There should be a law to set | :59:24. | :59:31. | |
minimum nurse staffing levels, according to the Liberal Democrats. | :59:32. | :59:39. | |
Why do staffing issues need to be looked at, they say. | :59:40. | :59:50. | |
Undoubtably nursing in recent years with the recent report or the | :59:51. | :59:52. | |
Francis Report, they are bound to have a report on people wanting to | :59:53. | :00:02. | |
stay in the service. -- have an effect on people wanting to stay in | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
the service or join the service as a career. It is vital we get the right | :00:07. | :00:14. | |
number of nurses on our awards. Nurses say that one of the most | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
important issues now is to get staffing levels right so that they | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
get the care they need. You can get all the latest news | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
throughout the day with regular bulletins on radio Wales and radio, | :00:28. | :00:39. | |
a, and from our services in Welsh. -- radio Cymru. If you want more | :00:40. | :00:47. | |
Welsh politics, in the week we have First Minister's question Time on | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
BBC Two Wales on Tuesday afternoon, and the Wales report after the 10pm | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
news I'll be back at the same time next | :00:58. | :01:23. | |
week. That's all from me, | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
thank you very much indeed. Back to Andrew. | :01:29. | :01:39. | |
Welcome back. Politicians always insist in public that opinion polls | :01:40. | :01:46. | |
do not matter. Even though their own parties each spend a small fortune | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
on private polling. If they take them seriously, so do we! Let's take | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
a closer look. First up, how the votes might fall for the European | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
Parliament. Back in January, Labour looked set to finish first. By | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
April, UKIP had edged into the lead. According to today's poles, Nigel | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
Farage's party is either down into place, or has soared ahead. Both | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
cannot be right. It is a similar picture for the general election. | :02:17. | :02:29. | |
Labour's lead has been cut back by the Tories. This is the most | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
unpredictable general election in a long time. It keeps us in a job! We | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
are joined now by the managing director of the pollsters, ComRes. | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
Welcome to the programme. While the polls all over the place on the | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
European election? We are trying to do two things, figure out who is | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
going to be voting, and how they are going to be voting. I think a lot of | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
the polls are predicting quite high turnout. They are looking at more | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
than 50% turnout, which is simply not can be the case. So, what we are | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
doing is predicting it based on those who are ten out of ten, | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
certain to vote, and it really benefits UKIP, it benefits them | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
democratically, demographically, with the older age profile, who are | :03:21. | :03:29. | |
going to vote. Another poll gives them only a one-point lead, so, come | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
the results coming out, you are either going to look away ahead of | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
your time or very stupid? Absolutely. That is the job of | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
pollsters. Somebody has to be wrong. Ultimately, we were spot on in 2009, | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
and we are hoping to be spot on on Thursday. So you were spot on on | :03:49. | :04:03. | |
voting intention in 2009? Yes. What does the indications of what is now | :04:04. | :04:11. | |
a four party system mean, does it change the nature of your methods? | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
It changes how we look at the polls, how we look at what is going to | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
happen as a result of the vote. Predicting the number of seats is | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
becoming more and more important and more difficult to do, because | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
distribution is becoming fundamentally important. Because it | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
is for parties? That's right. . Does the polling give us any evidence to | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
try to settle the matter of whether UKIP votes are coming from? Yes. We | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
know that over 50% of the UKIP vote share is coming from the | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
Conservatives come people who did vote Conservative in 2010. But | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
actually, the other 50% is coming from a wide range of different | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
sources. And what we are seeing is that ultimately, every single | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
establishment party should be worried, because the people voting | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
for UKIP are the people that really do not like politics at the moment. | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
They are wanting people to speak on their behalf, so it affects all of | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
them. There is evidence that there is now a move of some working-class | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
Labour votes to UKIP as well? That's right. That is what I mean about the | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
establishment vote, the people that they can really reach out to, who | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
are really interested in things like immigration, in those single issues, | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
where they do not feel the political parties of the mainstream are | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
representing them. I would suggest that for the European elections, | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
where turnout is low, ComRes may be right or wrong, but likely to vote | :05:49. | :05:56. | |
would seem to be the yardstick. I would say that is true in almost any | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
European election apart from this one. Because there has been so much | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
attention on this election, because of UKIP and the probably do that | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
they will win second, I wonder whether it is now such a big topic | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
of conversation, the subject of Nigel Farage, that people who would | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
otherwise talk a good game about voting UKIP but do not show up on | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
the day are this time around likely to show up on the day? I am not | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
entirely convinced by that. We underestimate how many people are | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
completely disengaged by politics. I think it is very easy for us to | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
think, and I agree that by any other standards, this is the most coverage | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
a European election has ever had in Britain, but still, most people | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
don't care. Instinctively, Nick, you would think, if you are a UKIP | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
photo, if you have made that choice, then you would probably be more | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
motivated to go and vote on Thursday? I am sure that is right. | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
Also, the publicity that Nigel Farage has had. And also, as | :07:02. | :07:09. | |
Catherine says, people are attracted to UKIP because they are annoyed | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
with the established parties. If you have made that big decision to do | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
it, then you will probably do it. The really big question which we | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
want to take out of these elections is, how many people who have left | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
the established parties, left the Conservative Party, in these | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
elections on Thursday, how many of them will stick with UKIP and how | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
many of them will go back? Nigel Farage is very confident, he is | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
saying that 60% of those certain to vote UKIP will stick with UKIP. If | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
that happens, it is a real problem for Downing Street. Downing Street | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
are basically saying that many Tories will have a fling with UKIP | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
but they will return to the marital home next year. You do two sorts of | :07:54. | :08:00. | |
polling, for the European elections, and for the general election, which | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
may be more relevant to the local election voters, but what is the | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
answer to his question? We do not know at the moment. We when you ask | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
people how likely they are to vote in the same way, they are thinking | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
that actually, I am going to vote in exactly the same way at the general | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
election, they are not going to say, I am going to split my vote. I think | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
the key point is, what happens in the Euros. We have a fixed term | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
parliament, which means momentum is crucial. What comes out of the Euros | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
will be a statement about how well UKIP can last for the next year, or | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
indeed, if it comes second, it is about momentum and feeling about the | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
parties. I do not think we can tell yet. If UKIP does well, there could | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
be some leadership crises we will have to cover. I want to look at a | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
couple of the headlines on the screen. Now, it seems, as you can | :08:57. | :09:11. | |
see from the Mail, Mr Miliband could be in some trouble. The Labour MP | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
for Rochdale talking about the mantra of misery which is Labour's | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
policy is not going down well. And there are also rumbles about, if Mr | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
Clegg comes fourth or even fifth in the European elections, that there | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
will be a plot to remove him. There are not many names behind that plot | :09:30. | :09:36. | |
yet, but Vince Cable does get an honourable mention! Not that he is | :09:37. | :09:44. | |
plotting, but he could take over! If Labour comes a poor second, and the | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
Tories are third, and Nick Clegg is nowhere, there is a | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
Clevedon-Miliband agenda, isn't there? It will be very different for | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
each man. The worst thing that could happen to Labour is if Nick Clegg | :10:01. | :10:08. | |
loses his job, because he will be replaced by somebody substantially | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
to the left of him, you would have to assume, someone like Tim Farron. | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
I think it is unlikely that David Laws Danny Alexander, the two | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
prominent figures who are to the right of him, would win the | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
leadership. If it is someone who is quite a way to the left of Nick | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
Clegg, then some voters might find the party a more attractive | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
proposition. Which is why the Tories want to hold on to Nick Clegg. | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
Absolutely. But I think you are right, there is a really big bubble | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
for Ed Miliband here. The second big thing, I do not know if you saw the | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
photo opportunity this week, Boris Johnson strolling through a garden | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
with David Cameron, they got off the chew one-stop early just to | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
appreciate the spring sunshine. But where are the shadow cabinet? I hear | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
rumours of a politician called Yvette Cooper, but I do not know | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
what she has been up to recently. And Rachel Reeves and Andy Burnham, | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
all of these big hitters are not lashing themselves to the mast of | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
the Labour election campaign. And some of these big hitters are | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
immensely talented, Rachel Reeves, Chuka Umunna, these guys are really | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
talented. You get the impression that they are watching this as you | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
say and biding their time. Ed Miliband has bet the farm on this | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
calculation that there has been this rupture between the rise in wages | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
and the rise in inflation, although that is now beginning to slow. The | :11:37. | :11:44. | |
calculation he is making is that in the 2012 presidential election, Mitt | :11:45. | :11:46. | |
Romney was ahead on many of the economic indicators, but Barack | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
Obama won because he said, I am on your side. He has bet the farm on | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
that. But there is a big difference between Miliband and Barack Obama, | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
which is that Barack Obama was elected in 2008 after the crash, so | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
everything he did was about rescue. The problem for Ed Miliband and Ed | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
Balls is that they were in power when the crash happened, so it is | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
difficult to make that comparison. Labour is nip and tuck with the | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
Tories, or ahead by a small amount - Mr Miliband's personal ratings are | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
much worse than what David Cameron's were at the same stage in | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
the political cycle, does that matter? I think personal ratings do | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
matter, particularly if things like Ukraine gained more prominence in | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
the media. It is a question of who you want as your statesman. But on | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
the economy specifically, actually, the economic ratings in terms of | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
confidence in the leader has not changed. That has not changed for | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
years now. It is pretty stable. Actually, the narrowing of the polls | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
could be due to the usual narrowing about 12 months out from the | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
election, and Labour really need to use the momentum. Thank you for | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
that. Plenty to talk about after you all go to the polls on Thursday. | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
There will be tonnes of election coverage and results on the BBC, | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
Thursday night, Friday, and of course, Sunday night, when the | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
European results come out. Daily Politics is back on BBC Two tomorrow | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
lunchtime. I will be back here next Sunday at 11 o'clock as usual for | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
The Sunday Politics. Remember, if it is Sunday, it is The Sunday | :13:31. | :13:34. |