08/12/2015 Tuesday in Parliament

Hello and welcome to Tuesdax in Parliament,

our look at the best of the day in the Commons and the Lords.

MPs weigh up whether 16- and 17-year-olds

We have made as a society, L explicit comment that we do not

think 16 and 17-year-olds are fully formed. How long before young people

start to rise up? The last thing we need is more young people bdcoming

militant. A warning of collisions between war

planes in the skies above Sxria There might be a serious risk of

coalition. Daschle collision. And reaction in the Commons to

the dropping of the controvdrsial And what about the 15 million

already wasted on privatisation of court fines collection and secure

colleges? But first, another clash

between the Commons and the Lords, Since 1970,

the age at which people can vote But just over a year ago,

17-year-olds and 16-year-olds were allowed to vote in the Scottish

independence referendum. And bringing the voting age down by

two years is a policy now stpported Last month, members of the House of

Lords voted to lower the voting age to 16 for the referendum on

Britain's continued EU membdrship. But when the issue came back to

the Commons, the Government wasn't minded to

accept the decision of the Lords. With the understandable sensitivity

surrounding the EU referendtm, making such a fundamental change to

the franchise for this vote alone, but not for others, would inevitably

and perhaps justifiably lead to accusations of trying to fix

the franchise in favour of the remain or the leave

campaign. That's why we have chosen to stick

with the tried and tested, If it is good enough for choosing

the government of this country, then surely it is good

enough for the referendum, too. And we should not jiggle

around with it for a one-off I... Once more, and then I...

I'm very grateful. But on that specific point,

as far as I know, nobody has made any such complaint about thd result

of the Scottish referendum `nd I don't understand why he feels that

if it was done in this case, Well, I am sure the honourable

gentleman has people in his own party who are

concerned and maybe on one side when it comes to the referendum

itself and that campaign. Equally, my party has peopld

on both sides and I think that there are huge sensitivities,

even if they are not being voiced The Scottish Parliament has lowered

the voting age, so how does he justify it to one of my constituents

who turned 16 in the next month who will be able to vote in Scottish

Parliament elections in 2016, council elections in 2017 btt will

be denied a vote in this referendum? Well, Mr Speaker,

as the honourable gentleman is aware, the franchise for Scottish

Parliamentary elections is, rightly, But this is a decision

which is to be taken in this place It is not a devolved matter,

it is a reserved topic. It is 40 years since this issue

was voted on in this countrx. Major constitutional referenda are

a once-in-a-generation choice, about the country's future

direction. it is that the young people of this

country deserve a say in the decision which will chart

our country's future. This, actually, is a constitutional

outrage, that the superannu`ted unelected, unaccountable panjandrums

in the House of Lords have told us what the elected house should be

doing when we have a set vidw on it. They must be subservient to

the elected house and it is high time

we had House of Lords reforl. We have made, as a society,

an explicit comment that we don t feel 16- and 17-year-olds are fully

formed because if we did, we would not suggest they h`ve to

stay in education. We would not suggest that they

can't book their own sunbed. We would not suggest that they are

not even allowed to buy thehr own What we have found in Scotl`nd,

and the evidence backs it up, is that by giving the franchise to

16- and 17-year-olds, they remain engaged in the political process

beyond the age of 16 and 17. And whilst the rest of the TK may

have had low numbers in Westminster elections, wd had a

much higher number, And what worries me about this is

an adult will be an adult at 16 The implications of that have never

been seriously looked at by my own party, never had

any investigation of impact on children or childhood of brhnging

down the vote to the age of 16. This Opposition, the SNP as well,

have never done a proper ev`luation of the impact on children

and the protection of children that A young lad called Malachy told

me that he felt unrepresentdd. He explained that there are 1.5

million 16- and 17-year-olds He went on to explain that

though the turnout for 18- to 24-year-olds was just above 40%

he told me that we needed the voices of 16- and 17-year-olds to be added

to this figure to make sure that I checked the stats with thd House

of Commons library How long will it be before

young people atart to rise tp? And the last thing we need hs more

young people becoming milit`nt. But many of my colleagues h`ve

called for more momentum they have opinions they want to be

heard. Many of us believe,

and I include myself in this, that for young people it is

a step too far to expect th`t we will extend the franchise to 16

and 17-year-olds and at the same time exempt them

from other things. So I have not heard a Scotthsh

member of the SNP arguing for 16-year-olds to be membdrs

of Parliament, for example. To me, that is

the logical extension of extending the voting franchise across

the House to having 18-year,old And at the end of that debate,

MPs voted 303-253 to throw out the decision of the Lords, so rdjecting

giving 16- and 17-year-olds As RAF air strikes continue to be

mounted against the militant group Islamic State in Syria, a former

head of the diplomatic servhce has sounded a warning in the Hotse

of Lords about the risk of ` midair collision in the skies abovd the

war-torn country. The independent peer Lord Wright was

concerned about RAF Tornados "without adequate

co-ordination and consultathon" First, a defence minister s`id all

UK and coalition missions wdre co-ordinated by the US-led combined

air operating centre in Qat`r. We are also providing intelligence,

reconnaissance and surveill`nce to support coalition operathons

in both Syria and Iraq. UK military personnel are providing

specialist training for Irapi security forces, including

Kurdish Peshmerga. Since the war has lasted already

five years, I wonder will my noble friend recognhse that

whilst bombing is important, it will never defeat Isis unless thdre's

a strong army on the ground. So will my noble friend rerdad

the speeches of last Wednesday of Lords Richmond, Ashdown, Owen

and Dannatt, and possibly mxself... ..and recognise that the only way

of defeating Isis is to find a way to deploy the army of Assad

and his allies, otherwise Isis will survive and cause mayhem

in the rest of the world. I would like my noble friend to know

that I have reread the debate of last wdek and

I fully agree with him that Daesh The most likely way to defe`t Daesh

on the ground is to bring about the end to the Syrian civil war which

would allow those keen to stpport a unified, inclusive and pe`ceful

Syria to unite against Daesh. That could include Syrian moderate

opposition forces, it could include Syrian Kurds, it could incltde an

army of internationally supported Syrian government, but we bdlieve

that such unity will only come about once Bashar al Assad leaves the

scene. My Lords, when the noble Lord

the minister reread the deb`te of last Wednesday, he may have noted

that I suggested that unless... if our Tornadoes and Typhoons are

sent into action without addquate co-ordination and consultathon,

there might be a serious risk of collision

with the Russian and Syrian forces. Can the Minister tell

the House what clearance has to be sought from what I understand is the

joint flights clearance centre in Damascus and how much co-ordination

is there with the Syrian authorities The coalition has implementdd safe

separation measures for aircraft operating in Sxria

which reflect the provisions of the United States-Russia melorandum

of understanding to prevent flight Those measures are kept unddr

constant review, including in the light of the

Russian jet incident with Ttrkey. But our own aircraft operatd

over Syria as part of the coalition calpaign

and are covered by those me`sures. The noble Earl the Minister will be

aware that in 2008, the onlx way we stopped the uprising in Irap

and destroyed Al-Qaeda in Iraq was when Petraeus got the Sunni tribes

fully onside to turn against them. Are we doing that now to

ensure they turn against IS? And we did that by bribing them And

persuading them. Because up until now, they have felt

that IS is better for them My lord, there is no doubt that

the Kurds will need to be p`rt They must play an important role,

I believe, As part of that, however,

they must recognise the importance of Syria's territorial integrity

and the parameters set out The government is moving

as "expeditiously" as possible to scrap the criminal courts charge,

Michael Gove has told Mps. The Justice Secretary announced

earlier this month that the fee - which saw convicted criminals in

England and Wales pay a charge of between ?150 and ?1,200 tow`rds the

cost of their case - will not be It reverses the decision made

by his predecessor in the job, Chris Grayling, and came after

strong criticism from magistrates. In the Commons, Mr Gove facdd

questions about the decision. Labour's Shadow Justice Minhster

said he welcomed what he called Individuals have incurred hhgh

levels of personal debt bec`use of this cost which they are unlikely

to be able to pay back. Bearing that in mind, will the

Secretary of State review and waive the outstanding payments whhch do

nothing but blight our finances and our justice system and place an

administrative cost on the taxpayer? It is the case that people will have

paid penalties under the criminal courts charge, that was

the law at the time and it will be After that, people will not be

paying the criminal courts charge. Until the 24th of December,

magistrates will be forced to impose what is now

a discredited charge which has What advice would the Secretary

of State give to those people It is my responsibility to

uphold the rule of law. We sought to take steps as puickly

as possible, after a proper review of the criminal courts charge and

after the spending review, to suspend

the operation of the charge. 21 days after

the requisite statutory instrument was laid, there will be no

further imposition of the charge. Labour's Shadow Justice Minhster

said he welcomed what he called Mr Speaker, I also welcome the

Lord Chancellor's fifth U-ttrn. Will he clear up the mess

his government has caused r`ther When will the charge be repdaled

by primary legislation? Why is it still being

imposed up to Christmas? Will the charges already imposed be

remitted and will the magistrates who

resigned in protest be reinstated? And will he tell us the cost

of the debacle and how much it adds to the ?15 million he has already

wasted on privatisation of fines That was something

of a multifaceted question but I think we can rely upon the Secretary

of State to respond with You're quite right,

there were more questions in that particular sally thdn in

a multiple-choice maths GCSD paper. All I will say is that we moved

as expeditiously as possibld in order to suspend the charge and the

best legal advice available to the department suggested that this was

the most effective way of rdlieving magistrates

of the obligation to impose it. Secure colleges, criminal court

charges, court fine enforcelent Could the Justice Secretary lay

before the House the full costs And which minister is responsible

for the waste of public mondy? The point about each

of the policies that she mentioned is that we took the decision both

in the national interest and Many magistrates resigned over

the fees which the Secretarx Partly because they felt people were

pleading guilty when they were innocent bec`use the

fees otherwise would be excdssive. What estimate did the Secretary

of State make in taking this decision of how many innocent people

pleaded guilty during that time I take account of

the honourable gentleman's point. I think, in the circumstancds,

I think we have to let But every single magistrate who

felt, for whatever reason, that they couldn't sit on the bench

because of that policy, I would like to invite to rdconsider

and revisit their decision. You're watching our round-up of the

day in the Commons and the Lords. To be Northern?

Or not to be Northern? Should Shakespeare be

brought to Merseyside? David Cameron is trying to get

a new deal for Britain in Etrope, as the clocks ticks

down to that in/out referendum. A main aim of the Prime Minhster's

is to secure a new arrangement where EU ligrants

would have their access to benefits But a senior economist has told MPs

that curbing welfare for migrants will in fact do little to stop the

flow of people coming to thd UK Sir Stephen Nickell was

before the Treasury Committde. In part of the negotiations of EU

membership would be to restrict migrants to in EU benefits. The

thing on a practical level, that will make any difference? Wdlcome in

my opinion, not much. OK. You want to expand on that?

You mean, make a precise quantification? Because the answer

is, I have no idea, because I have not investigated it. Is there any

evidence that people will bd less enthusiastic about coming to the UK

if this is dropped as a restlt of tax credits being removed?

Is there any evidence to support that?

Well, the answer is, in gendral there is evidence which suggests

that migration flows are influenced by the difference between what you

are able to get in the country of origin and what you are abld to get

in the country you migrate to. Yes, there is quite a lot of evidence

that the differential in job opportunities and pay is a

significant factor in deterlining migration flows.

The session looked at the Chancellor's apparent ?2

billion windfall he revealed in his Autumn Statement.

So, I don't expect the Chancellor will thank me, but it seems to me

that you have given the Chancellor a windfall by adjusting your forecast,

which has been spent in adv`nce We know that there is a great degree of

uncertainty around the government's ability to continue financing

through the Guild markets, `nd interest rates are lower for longer,

and yet you do not judge... I think we have reached the point where we

accept you do not judge the consequences of those interdst rates

advice you would like to offer the advice you would like to offer the

Chancellor on the fiscal responsibility side about what he

should be doing in the contdxt of this uncertainty?

I'm sure that what he will have done, one would hope, would be to

recognise the uncertainties and not merely the part of the central

forecast in making the spending and other policy decisions that he did

in the Autumn Statement. Thdre has been a windfall that he has spent.

You only have to look at evdry previous Autumn Statement to see

what has been done, to see that sometimes those forecasts go in your

favour and sometimes against. They often move by larger amounts than

this one has. I am sure in his mind, and those who advise him, they will

wish to way that considerathon. One of the biggest news events over

the last 12 months has been the mass movement of refugeds

across the European continent, escaping conflicts in the

Middle East and North Afric`. The United Nations called it

the biggest refugee and migration The images of young children caught

up in the crisis have played a particularly strong role

in influencing pubic attitudes. In the Commons, the Liberal Democrat

leader Tim Farron called for Britain to give asylum seeker status to up

to 3,000 unaccompanied children from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and Eritrea

who've reached the European Union. Children in this situation become

separated from their relatives for a number of reasons. Some havd lost

family members in their countries of origin, or those closest to them

have been victims of violence, leading them with little choice but

to flee and to flee a loan. Others have lost their family membdrs en

route, through illness or drowning. In their desperation, these children

put themselves in the hands of people smugglers, and criminal

gangs, to facilitate their journeys. Save The Children in Greece and

Italy have spoken to many children about the abuse, exploitation,

physical and sexual violencd they have experienced during the long

travel to Europe. This is not a far-off problem, to be dealt with by

distant governments. It is here in Europe on our own shores. It is our

responsibility to protect all refugees, and not more so than

orphaned children with no other hope. It is shameful that this

government has so far ignordd these children, and it is time thdy did

the right thing and help thdm. 000 children is just a small part of the

overall number, certainly slall enough for our local authorhties to

handle, given the appropriate resources and support, but ht will

make all the difference to the lives of every one of these desperate

youngsters who deserve our help Now, say the word

"Shakespeare" and we don't immediately think of Merseyside

nor indeed do we associate the playwright particularly with

the North of England. The Government says it supports

plans for a Shakespeare The`tre In fact,

the Shakespeare North Trust wants to re-build a theatre in Knowsley, in

Merseyside, where plays werd first The project's got the support of

Sir Paul McCartney, Dame Helen In Westminster Hall,

one of the area's MPs said ht would have economic benefits not just

for the locality but This project has the capacity to

create a Shakespearean triangle with Stratford and London. As such, the

Playhouse in Prescott will be a unique -- will be unique as the only

replica of this indoor Jacobean court theatre in the world. It will

be the site of the only actor training programme in Shakespearean

performance practice in the UK. It would be a leading public theatre,

with a student programme at its core, and a purpose to realhse one

of the UK's premier cultural assets. Perhaps I can conclude, Sir Edward,

with some words from Hamlet. By way of a request to the Linister.

Speak the speech, I pray yot, as I have pronounced it to you, tripping

Lee, on the tongue. But if xou mouth it, as many of our players do, I had

as leith the town crier spoke my lines. Nor do not Saudi air too much

with your hands us, but use all gently. -- saw the air. We look

forward to the Minister's gdntle response. I would urge the Linister

to empty his pockets and his purses, and whatever you can find should go

forward. There are many local

philanthropists, I understand, who would help to make this happen, and

a little from the government would go a long way. Thank you.

Well, I hear what the honourable lady says, and I commend her for

making those remarks, given the sore throat which she clearly has, and I

would obviously add the namds that she read out, the supporters of the

project, alongside, for exalple Sir Paul McCartney, Cherie Blair, David

Alton, Clive Owen, Trudie Styler, among many others. I should say of

course, to be, or not to be, that is the question. But we hope it will be

that this important project the ground. It is a great pleastre to

speak about it, about the proposal for this theatre. The Shakespeare

North project in Knowsley h`s been prepared by the Shakespeare North

Trust, and it has been a project that has been long in gestation A

quote from A Midsummer's Night's Dream, the course of true love never

did run smooth, and this project cannot simply be wished into

existence overnight. But I do think it is an exciting project, `nd I

hope to stay close to it, now and in the future, because a lot of hard

work has gone into it, and ht deserves to succeed.

The newest Member of Parliament has taken his seat

Following the death of Mich`el Meacher, the subsequent by-dlection

in Oldham West last week resulted in victory for Jim McMahon.

As he entered the chamber, Jim McMahon was flanked by two

of his fellow Labour MPs from Greater Manchester,

Mr McMahon, a university technician, has been a councillor in Oldham

for 12 years, the leader of the council for the last four.

At the by-election, he had ` 10,000-vote majority over the UKIP

And that's it for this programme. Do join me for our next round-up.

Until then, from me, Keith Macdougall, goodbye.