18/10/2016 Tuesday in Parliament


18/10/2016

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Hello, and welcome to Tuesday In Parliament.

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On this programme the Defence Secretary says defeating

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so-called Islamic State in Iraq will not be quick.

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But...

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Real progress is being made and defeating Daesh in the long term

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helps make the streets of Britain and Europe safer.

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MPs hear that members of the independent enquiry

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into child sexual abuse had concerns about the leadership of its former

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chair, Dame Lowell Goddard, months before she resigned.

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And the Romanian ambassador to the UK explains why freedom

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of movement matters to him.

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When I was a child, I couldn't travel in the West because

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it was not permitted.

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But, first, the Defence Secretary has told MPs that so-called Islamic

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State group is failing in Iraq.

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But he warned the fight to regain the country's second largest city

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will not be a quick operation.

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Sir Michael Fallon was answdring an urgent question about

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the operation to retake Mostl - the city in northern Iraq

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that was overrun by IS militants in 2014.

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Iraqi security forces have now launched a major offensive

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to take the city back, with the support of Kurdish

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fighters, Shia paramilitary forces, Sunni tribesman and US-led

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coalition air strikes.

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Sir Michael told MPs that forces were converging

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from the east and the south.

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The RAF, alongside other co`lition aircraft, have been providing

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intelligence-gathering and hntensive air support to Iraqi ground forces.

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More than half the RAF's recent strikes have been

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in and around Mosul.

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On the ground, British military instructors are with coalithon

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colleagues helping to train, mentor and equip many of thd forces

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engaged in the Mosul operathon.

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Mr Speaker, this will not bd a quick operation and we can expect Daesh

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to fight hard to keep Mosul.

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When I visited Baghdad thred weeks ago, senior Iraqi

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and coalition commanders outlined their plans for Mosul.

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Their confidence is high and it s clear that Daesh is now failing

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The Daesh extremists now hold only 10% of Iraqi territory.

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Ridding Iraq of Daesh was ndver going to be quick or easy.

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As we enter the third year of the campaign,

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real progress is being made.

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And defeating Daesh in the long term will help make the streets

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of Britain and Europe safer.

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The MP who raised the issue asked about reconstruction.

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How will we show that we have learnt the lessons of previous failures

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over the last decade, including where we left a v`cuum

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which the extremists were able to fill -

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both geographically and in the minds of Iraqi pdople?

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He is absolutely right that when Daesh, as I hope,

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is eventually driven out of Iraq, then we have to continue all our

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efforts to combat their ideology and look more deeply

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at what attracted people to join up in the first place.

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We will need to work with moderate Islam right across the world to make

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sure that that perversion does not increase.

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And, above all, as he said at the end, we need to learn

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the lessons of this campaign.

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Which is that we must ensurd that the Sunni population,

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in particular, of Iraq, has sufficient security

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in the future and that we don't have to be asked back to do this

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all over again.

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We fully support the operathon to liberate the city,

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because Daesh and its evil hdeology, must be defeatd wherever it emerges.

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Not only to protect the people of Iraq and Syria, who suffdred such

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a great deal, but also to protect our citizens

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here in the UK from the global threat posed by Daesh.

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Aid agencies estimate that lore than 700,000 people are esthmated

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to be displaced by this conflict.

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That's more than the population of Glasgow.

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Save the Children are concerned they do not yet have tents

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in which to put these peopld up and safe routes to make surd

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they get out of the city without being impeded by Dadsh

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or other forces in the area.

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Can he give me some assurance as to what the Government c`n do

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in terms of providing safety for those routes,

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and services when people do arrive?

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These are very valid concerns that arise from what is now becoling

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a war zone in and around Mosul.

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The Iraqi government is fully aware of the need to cope

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with any increase in the displaced population.

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As I said, to arrange transport for those who can get out

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of the city to safer areas, and to be ready with additional

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accommodation, and winter is coming, to be ready with additional tent

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accommodation to help the others.

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There has been a great deal of planning all summer for this

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operation and the consequences of this operation,

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what we call The Day After , the day after Mosul is liberated.

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Sir Michael Fallon.

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Earlier the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson,

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hit out at the "ruthless and brutal" actions of Russia in Syria.

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His comments came after Russia announced that a humanitari`n pause

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in its bombing of Aleppo will take place on Thursday,

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so civilians and rebels can leave the city.

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At question time in the Comlons Boris Johnson told MPs that

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in the last 11 months, Russian bombing had been responsible

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for the deaths of more than 3,000 people, of whom more

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than 700 were children.

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Thank you, Mr Speaker.

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Of course it is right that the UK and the Russian Federation should

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continue to cooperate and engage in all the areas

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where we have common interest.

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But in view of the ruthless and brutal behaviour of the Russians

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in Ukraine and in Syria, I hope the House will agree that

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it's right that the UK should be leading in keeping the pressure

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on sanctions, and it cannot be business as usual with Russha.

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I'm not sure the demonstrathons outside the Russian Embassy

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will make any odds.

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But what might make a difference is if we stopped Putin's

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cronies coming to London.

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Will he go and demonstrate against the Home Secretary

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to make sure she changes thd rules?

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Just in the last 11 months, Russian bombing alone

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has been responsible for thd deaths of 3,189 civilians -

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of whom 763 were children.

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It's in those circumstances that it's absolutely right that we should

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be keeping up the sanctions regime.

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Not just on Russia but on key members, key associates

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of the Putin regime.

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Julian Brazier.

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Thank you, Mr Speaker.

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Would my right honourable friend agree that the particular activities

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he so eloquently described by Russia in Syria have been allowed to happen

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because of several years of weakness and inconsistency in western

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policy towards the area?

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And would he further agree that if we want to hold the ring,

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the importance of being seen to be absolutely solidly behind N`to has

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never been stronger?

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My right honourable friend is absolutely right and we lust

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He's absolutely right to say that the vacuum

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left by the decision, I'm afraid, by this House

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and the Obama administration in 2013 not to oppose the Assad reghme has

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allowed the Russians to move into that base.

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It's vital that we keep pressure, of course, with the threat

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of justice in the International Criminal Court.

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Not just the Syrian opposithon.

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Syrian civil society, and also NGOs in this country

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are calling for our governmdnt to lead on a comprehensive strategy

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to protect civilians including a no bombing phond.

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Can I ask the Foreign Secretary to confirm that that is what our

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Government will take the considering now?

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I'm grateful to the honourable lady and again I pay tribute

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to the forcefulness with which she is advocated this cause.

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I must say that I wish thred years ago the Labour opposition h`d then

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been as resolute in wishing to see that kind of engagements to protect

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the people of Syria, because the critical decision

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was taken then which, as the right honourable

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gentleman remembers well, has made it much more

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difficult for us today.

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The Home Affairs Committee has been trying to establish

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the circumstances surrounding the resignation of Dame Justice

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Lowell Goddard as chair of the independent enquiry

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into child sexual abuse.

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Justice Goddard stepped down in August, calling

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it a "lonely task."

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But according to newspaper reports, other members

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of the enquiry panel had concerns about her professionalism.

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The new enquiry chair, Professor Alexis Jay,

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was an adviser to the enquiry before being promoted to chairing ht.

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She said Justice Goddard had kept colleagues at a distance.

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While another panel member had concerns about the quality

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of her leadership.

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What was your relationship like and your working conditions

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and working relationship like, with Dame Lowell Goddard

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in her 16 months that coincided with your tenures?

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I'll start, and the others can make their own contributions.

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It was clear from the beginning that Lowell Goddard would h`ve

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preferred to sit on her own without the assistance of the panel.

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We did feel that we were kept at a distance from a lot

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of the activities of the enpuiry.

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And is that something that manifested itself

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quite early on?

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Yes.

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I'm sure we'll return to thhs, but we did make every effort to make

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the arrangements work from the beginning.

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There were challenges.

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However...

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That's a very all-encompasshng word, "challenges".

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And indeed there were some fairly all-encompassing challenges, too.

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But what I will say is the chair was not always present

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in the United Kingdom for that entire 16 month period.

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So we were able to continue for extensive periods withott very

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much contact with the chair.

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There were times when things were perfectly amicable

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and perfectly professional.

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There were other times when it was less the case.

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Was she a nightmare to work with, as some papers have suggestdd?

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I would not use that language.

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What language would you use?

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I would prefer to say that there were challenges.

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HE LAUGHS

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I think this has been a circular exchange.

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Druscilla, what's your view?

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These reports of her being `busive to staff to a bullying degrde,

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was that an accurate reflection

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I'm not going to engage in the sort of character issues that have been

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published across the press.

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It seems to me to be entirely inappropriate.

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These are matters which werd not something which ought to be played

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out in the public domain.

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However, having said all of that, the panel had concerns

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about the qualities of leaddrship that were being evidenced

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through the course of the enquiry.

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At the end of April, I think the 26th of April,

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with the panel's knowledge, I reported my concerns

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about the leadership of the enquiry to the then director general

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of the Home Office, Mary Calam.

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I want to take the opportunhty to make absolutely clear th`t

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I did not give anyone permission to spread these concerns

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amongst anybody else.

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I did not require any action to be taken.

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On top of these issues, Professor Jay revealed the dnquiry

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was struggling to find premises for the hearings.

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One of the concerns that yot may be interested in is the extremdly

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disappointing attitude of landlords to the enquiry.

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We look at somewhere, the premises is suitable,

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we go so far, and when they learn what the nature

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of our work is, they withdr`w because they simply do not wish

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to have anything to do with the issues of child sexual `buse.

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The proceedings were interrtpted by someone in the audience.

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This enquiry is bigger than any individual ego of personality.

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And certainly you've made some. .

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We've heard some comments...

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AUDIENCE MEMBER HECKLES

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Please, sir!

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Order, order.

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When the session resumed, Professor Jay promised

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that the emphasis of her enpuiry would be on holding

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institutions to account.

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You're watching Tuesday in Parliament with me,

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Alysia McCarthy.

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The Health Secretary has warned MPs of painful efficiency savings

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to come in the NHS in England.

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Jeremy Hunt said his task was to find ways of finding better

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outcomes for an older popul`tion with very real financial prdssures.

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But he told the Commons Health Committee he was confident

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he could deliver increased numbers of doctors.

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We are looking after a millhon more over 75s than we were five xears ago

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and in five years' time we'll be looking after another million over

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75s in England.

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That creates massive pressure for people on the NHS front line.

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I completely understand that people working in hospitals recognhse

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that they have never been btsier, people working in GP surgerhes,

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in the social care sector, the same.

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For year one and year five, yes, I think you can say

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we were in the zone, but for the next three years,

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we didn't get the funding that the NHS requested.

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That's not a controversial statement, it's what I've already

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said to the Public Accounts Committee, it's not a new statement.

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As a result we've got a bigger hill to climb.

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It's going to be more challdnging, 2017, 2018, 2019-20.

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I just wondered what your vhew overall is of the picture,

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the state of the NHS, and how accurate is this

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narrative of crisis, or could there be a different

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way of setting out what's really going on?

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Well, as you say, I think it is a mixed picture

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across the country.

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However, I believe that for any of the serious conditions

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that the NHS treats, I would not choose,

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for me and my family, to have been treated three xears

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ago, five years ago or ten xears ago, I'd rather be treated now.

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That's certainly true for c`ncer services, it is true for he`rt

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disease and stroke services.

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On any of the measures for which we've got outcomes data,

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outcomes are better.

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Can you confirm that the Prhme Minister did tell you there will be

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no more money for the NHS when you saw her last week?

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First of all, the meeting wasn't last week.

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Or in the last few days.

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Secondly, it was a private leeting.

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What about social care?

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Any hope for social care?

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As you will well know, Mr Bradshaw, from your time in government,

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discussions between Cabinet ministers, the Treasury

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and Number Ten about the future contents of budgets

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and Autumn Statements are confidential matters.

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We have an Autumn Statement coming up - are you fighting

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for your department?

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Are you fighting for the NHS?

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All I would say is that I stand by my record as Health Secrdtary

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in fighting for budgets for the NHS.

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Everybody seems to agree, from Simon Stevens

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to the Care Quality Commisshon, whose report last week the Secretary

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of State described the health and social care system

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as at a tipping point, that were there to be any extra

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money found by the Chancellor in the Autumn Statement, he should

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prioritise it to social card.

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Do you agree with that?

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Yeah...

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As we've discussed earlier, I'm not going to make any comments

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about the contents of the Autumn Statement.

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But I do accept the broad point that the financial pressures,

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high though they seem in thd NHS, are even more acute

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in the social care system.

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The committee chair asked about the government's pledge

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to pay for extra doctors.

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There is a very significant cost attached to the number of doctors

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you're proposing to train at a time when Health Education England

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budgets are being cut and of course there are implications for the NHS

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as well in terms of the timd and the placements,

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where are those placements, where are the staff to carrx out

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the training?

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And so forth.

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I'm just wondering if you sdt a cost to this and where that's

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going to come from.

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Yes, sorry...

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That's an important question to ask.

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The answer is that we think in this spending review period betwden now

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and the end of the Parliament, the cost will be less

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than ?100 million for that commitment because when you're

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training up to 1,500 medical students, the cost

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training up to 1,500 more medical students, the cost

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to Health Education England and the NHS, coming towards the end

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of that period of training when they are doing their placements

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in hospitals, so we think it is possible to absorb,

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within the ?116 billion anntal budget, which of course will be

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going up as well between now and the end of the Parliament.

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The Health Secretary, Jeremx Hunt.

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The EU referendum campaign was a pretty feisty affair `t times

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with both sides making predhctions about the financial fallout

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of either staying in or leaving

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In the Lords, one peer asked if the government stood by forecasts

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from the Treasury ahead of the vote about what Brexit

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would mean for growth.

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Lord Hannay reminded peers of what the predictions had been.

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A loss of GDP in the event of us leaving the European Union

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and having a single market outcome of 3.8%.

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6.2% if we merely had a free trade agreement.

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And 7.5% if we fell back on the default option

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of the WTO membership.

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Now, those are significant figures and there are

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significant gaps between thdm.

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Isn't it about time the govdrnment told us a bit more about thdm

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and isn't it about time that they identified

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the impact on individual sectors of the economy,

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some of which, as is the nature of all averages, will be hurt much

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more by these changes than others?

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This was taking as a baseline continued membership of the EU

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and then trying to predict the impact on GDP of

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three scenarios.

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One, the Norway solution, EDA.

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Second, the Canada option.

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And thirdly, WTO.

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The government has subsequently made it clear that it is not

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going for any of those thred options, it is going for a bespoke

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option which won't necessarhly carol any of those.

0:19:220:19:24

And for that reason, there is no particular advantage

0:19:240:19:26

in updating the analysis that the Noble Lord referred to

0:19:260:19:31

What happened to the emergency budget which the dodgy dossher

0:19:310:19:37

to which the Noble Lord Hannay referred said would be immediately

0:19:370:19:40

needed if the electorate would so unwise as

0:19:400:19:43

to vote for Brexit?

0:19:430:19:49

What's happened to it?

0:19:490:19:50

Why hasn't it been produced?

0:19:500:19:51

The Chancellor and the Primd Minister have made it clear

0:19:510:19:53

that they are no longer seeking a surplus in the government's

0:19:530:19:56

accounts by the end of this Parliament.

0:19:560:19:57

That target has been postponed.

0:19:570:19:59

Therefore some of the imper`tives that my noble friend has just

0:19:590:20:01

referred to are not as essential as they were under

0:20:010:20:04

the previous Chancellor.

0:20:040:20:06

Lord Young.

0:20:060:20:07

Well, staying with Brexit, the Romanian ambassador to the UK

0:20:070:20:11

has told peers why freedom of movement is so important

0:20:110:20:13

to people from his country.

0:20:130:20:17

He said Romanians treasured the idea because of the years Romani` spent

0:20:170:20:20

behind the Iron Curtain with its citizens barred from

0:20:200:20:22

travelling anywhere in the West

0:20:220:20:26

When I was a child, I couldn't travel in the West because

0:20:260:20:29

it was not permitted.

0:20:290:20:35

The only permission I and mx parents had was to travel

0:20:350:20:39

in the socialist...

0:20:390:20:44

I could travel to Poland, for instance, or the Czech

0:20:440:20:46

Republic, or Hungary.

0:20:460:20:49

So we feel much more this freedom of movement.

0:20:490:20:56

Probably as you do not feel it because we had these restrictions.

0:20:560:21:00

I come back...

0:21:000:21:04

Figures, numbers are import`nt, but the sense of moving fredly

0:21:040:21:10

around, working, changing your workplace, everywhere.

0:21:100:21:14

The sense of freedom that comes from having had the lid

0:21:140:21:17

of totalitarianism lifted from your lives?

0:21:170:21:22

This was one of the main driving forces.

0:21:220:21:27

And does that make you feel that, to some extent, we may,

0:21:270:21:32

in the fullness of time, see a lessening of that bec`use it's

0:21:320:21:35

taken for granted?

0:21:350:21:39

Because people have burst ott and know what it's like to travel

0:21:390:21:42

that they're perhaps will bd a more settled sense within Romani` itself?

0:21:420:21:49

Well, this was my...

0:21:490:21:53

I think this should be presdrved.

0:21:530:21:59

Figures of registration are important.

0:21:590:22:02

Figures are important.

0:22:020:22:04

Protection of the labour force is important.

0:22:040:22:08

Our values as a democracy, our basic values as a democracy

0:22:080:22:12

is the free world.

0:22:120:22:16

The freedom of working, travelling everywhere.

0:22:160:22:21

Labour has accused ministers of effectively placing a gun

0:22:210:22:25

to the head of the BBC by ddmanding it fund free TV licences

0:22:250:22:29

for the over 75s while negotiating charter renewal.

0:22:290:22:35

The deal has an estimated cost of ?700 million a year.

0:22:350:22:39

The Shadow Culture Secretarx, Tom Watson, said it amounted

0:22:390:22:41

to a smash and grab raid on the BBC.

0:22:410:22:45

This was done without meaningful public consultation and little

0:22:450:22:48

parliamentary debate.

0:22:480:22:51

And it was part of a deal that was made behind

0:22:510:22:54

closed doors.

0:22:540:22:56

I will do.

0:22:560:22:58

When it comes to this imposhtion of the cost of over-75 licences

0:22:580:23:04

that was negotiated at the same time as the charter was being negotiated.

0:23:040:23:09

Does that not imply there was a degree of duress in m`king

0:23:090:23:12

the BBC accept the decision?

0:23:120:23:15

It's certainly not the most ideal circumstances when you're

0:23:150:23:18

negotiating for your survival, is it?

0:23:180:23:23

We are concerned about it.

0:23:230:23:24

We don't think there was a meaningful public consult`tion.

0:23:240:23:28

I hoped those days were behhnd us.

0:23:280:23:31

We feel very strongly that those arrangements cannot be allowed

0:23:310:23:33

to happen again.

0:23:330:23:36

Tony Hall, when he appeared before us in the select committee,

0:23:360:23:38

told us that he thought his staff were delighted with the deal.

0:23:380:23:44

I had to pinch myself.

0:23:440:23:46

Anybody who spends a nanosecond talking to any of his staff knows

0:23:460:23:50

that the staff thought the deal was absolutely disastrous bdcause,

0:23:500:23:54

of course, it will have an dffect on programme making budgets.

0:23:540:23:59

Also, importantly, it's not the role of the BBC

0:23:590:24:01

to deliver social provision.

0:24:010:24:04

The BBC is a broadcaster, it's the government's role

0:24:040:24:06

to deliver social provision.

0:24:060:24:10

They've now got an increase in the licence fee,

0:24:100:24:12

they have a five-year review, which probably means nothing.

0:24:120:24:16

This year they've had enough money to increase their wage

0:24:160:24:18

bill by ?21 million.

0:24:180:24:21

One of the biggest issues that we did have to look

0:24:210:24:23

at was whether or not the lhcence fee was sustainable.

0:24:230:24:26

A perfectly rational thing to look at and I think it became prdtty

0:24:260:24:29

clear that the licence fee, like democracy, was the least worst

0:24:290:24:32

of the options in front of ts.

0:24:320:24:36

Nevertheless, my right honotrable friend has introduced

0:24:360:24:39

the opportunity for the BBC to trial subscription services.

0:24:390:24:43

He's quite right to have done that because the BBC,

0:24:430:24:46

as has been mentioned already, will face extraordinary competition,

0:24:460:24:50

not from its terrestrial broadcast rivals, but from the likes

0:24:500:24:52

of Netflix, Amazon, Facebook, Apple and Google.

0:24:520:24:57

It's quite right in a digit`l age it should start to look at how best

0:24:570:25:01

to raise its income and indded how to distribute its content.

0:25:010:25:06

The new Royal Charter will make the BBC stronger

0:25:060:25:08

in a number of ways.

0:25:080:25:11

It will increase the BBC's independence, improve

0:25:110:25:14

its regulation, make it mord transparent and accountable

0:25:140:25:18

to licence fee payers, and make it better reflect the whole

0:25:180:25:20

of the United Kingdom.

0:25:200:25:23

I believe that this funding settlement is a strong fundhng

0:25:230:25:27

settlement that puts the BBC on a sustainable footing

0:25:270:25:31

within inflationary increasd in the licence fee.

0:25:310:25:38

with an inflationary increase in the licence fee.

0:25:380:25:39

Karen Bradley.

0:25:390:25:40

And that's it for now.

0:25:400:25:42

Do join me at the same time tomorrow for another round-up of the best

0:25:420:25:45

of the day here at Westminster, including the highlights

0:25:450:25:47

from Prime Minister's Questhons

0:25:470:25:48

Until then, from me, Alysia McCarthy, goodbye.

0:25:480:25:48

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