05/11/2015 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Thursday, it's 9.15, I'm Joanna Gosling,

Security fears leave thousands of British tourists stranded

We are meant to fly back with easyJet to Gatwick.

The Government suspends all flights between Britain and the resort

in Egypt following the Russian plane crash last weekend.

As the Egyptian president arrives in the UK for talks; we'll bring you

Also ahead; a mum whose son was groomed

on the internet and then murdered tells this programme all parents

should be aware of the dangers their children face on the internet.

After four thousand deaths Sierra Leone will be declared Ebola free at

the end of this week; we hear from families re-building their lives.

My mother is feeling well but every night she cry. She lost the whole

family. Hello, welcome to our programme,

we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News We're going to keep you right

across all the developments following the government's decision

to suspend all flights between The Prime Minister will chair

another emergency meeting later we're expecting the Transport

Secretary Patrick McLoughlin We'll bring that to you

when it happens. DO get in touch with us

throughout the programme. Texts will be charged

at the standard network rate. And of course you can watch

the programme online wherever you are via the bbc news app or

our website bbc.co.uk/Victoria; you can also subscribe to all

our features on the news app, by going to add topics

and searching Victoria Derbyshire. It is now mid-morning

in Sharm el Sheikh and thousands of British holiday-makers hoping to

leave the Egyptian resort are stuck after all flights to and from the UK

last night were suspended over The British Government has said

there's a 'significant possibility' that so called Islamic State

militants were behind a suspected bomb attack on a Russian airliner

that killed all 224 people on board. There are about 20,000 British

nationals in Sharm el Sheikh, about The Red Sea resort is visited

by hundreds of thousands of Britons And Egypt says the suspension

of flights will have 'huge consequences' for the country's

troubled tourism industry. Here's what holidaymakers waiting

at the airport have been saying. Our flight has been grounded because

of security concerns. We were stood in the queue waiting to get on the

plane when they told us to all two and sit down because we weren't

going anywhere. This new footage was filmed just

moments after the Russian plane crashed into the Sinai desert

killing all 224 people on board. Rescue teams rushed to the scene

but there were no survivors. Military experts are with the

security team sent from the UK to review safety and procedures at

Sharm El-Sheikh Airport. They'll be working with Foreign Office and

Department of Transport officials. The Foreign Secretary says he does

expect that British tourists can begin to be flown home from Sharm

El-Sheikh tomorrow. There were a significant number of British

flights due out today, 19 in total I think scheduled for today, and they

would have been bringing holiday-makers back. The flights

will now not happen today, but the airlines are telling us that they

expect by tomorrow that they will be in a position to start flying those

British visitors back to the UK, so we are spending today with the

airlines, the Egyptian authorities, putting in place short-term

emergency measures that will allow us to screen everything going on to

the planes, double check those planes, so that we can be confident

that they can fly back safely to the UK and then we'll keep those

short-term special measures in place for as long as it takes to bring

holiday-makers who're in Sharm back to the UK on their original schedule

departure dates, if that's what they want to do. Then, as a second phase,

we'll be looking with the Egyptians at how to tighten up routine

security at Sharm so we can rezuem normal operations as soon as

possible and that's very much what we an and the Egyptians want to

achieve. The decision to suspend flights came

as the Egyptian President, Abdel Fatah al-Sisi, arrived in the UK to

hold talks with David Cameron. Before he set off to London,

he spoke to our correspondent Lyse Doucet just days before

the Russian plane crashed in Sinai: He wanted to stop fears that

the reach of so called Islamic TRANSLATION: We are talking about an

area that equals less than 1% of Sinai. We have dealt with large

numbers of militants with weapons and explosives. We have achieved a

great deal but of course it's incomplete. We'll carry on the

fight. So you don't have it under control yet? No, no, we have the

area under full control. You have it? Of course. We will never accept

that we are not in control of our country. It is the army's job to

stop these killers who terrify and murder Egyptians.

The first funeral of one of the 224 victims of the crash will take

Olga lost her son and daughter-in-law.

They'd been on a two week break in Egypt to celebrate

We can speak now to two British tourists currently in Sharm.

We can speak to Leon Clo. You were one of those stranded, what is your

situation? I was due to leave today after my flight was delayed. Then I

got a message last night from easyJet saying all flights were

suspended until further notice. I'm still waiting to hear back. I just

received a message around a minute ago telling me there was no new

information, no new news from easyJet as to when the flights will

go ahead again so we are pretty much just waiting here. Are you happy

that you are getting as much information as you can? I mean,

there is quite a disparity in the information we are getting between

the Egyptian sources here and between the British sources as well.

So the Foreign Office have been telling us that there is a threat

and that's why they have suspended flights, but Egyptian sources are

telling us this is mostly propaganda and even the hotel staff have told

us that there are coaches coming to pick us up and take us to the

airport because our flights are due to leave. So everyone is slightly

confused. Although I'm happy with the information we have received

from the Foreign Office, it's quite conclusive. Do you think it was the

right decision? How do you feel about this? I believe it was the

right decision. I believe security should be paramount due to the fact

that the region itself is quite a hot bed of terrorism. It's essential

that we take as many precautionary measures as possible. So I'm happy

to stay here for another day if it means that security will be ensured.

It will never be ensured but as close to it as possible, before I

make my flight. Will you be out-of-pocket by staying? My father

is here and so luckily I do have a person that I can stay with,

although easyJet have offered us accommodation to stay in over the

next couple of days in the event that flights aren't reinstated.

What does it all mean to you? Had you been worried at all about any

security issues? So, I read the Foreign Office advice and they were

advising against all but essential travel to any region.

PROBLEM WITH SOUND Unfortunately, we seem to have

lost our communications with Leon. We are hoping to speak to some other

holiday-makers who're also stranded in Sharm El-Sheikh a little later. I

think we may be able to go back to Leon. We lost you there, sorry, tell

us what you were saying about the concerns, urn aware that travel

alerts were in place? Yes, so I was worried. When I first came here, I

read the advice saying that advice to all none-essential advice was not

advised but Sharm El-Sheikh, it's quite secure. I mean, you do go

around the streets and see a lot of security checkpoints and you see a

lot of security everywhere in Sharm El-Sheikh and so I think the threat

itself is isolated towards the airports and I think, as we have

been hearing from a lot of people earlier, the security at the airport

is not as stringent as it should be. Security within Sharm El-Sheikh

itself hasn't been an issue for me, it's getting to and from Sharm

El-Sheikh which is the main concern for me and a lot of the

holiday-makers I've been speaking to.

Thank you very much. Let's bring Lesley Anne Evans, what is the

situation for you, you are in Sharm El-Sheikh? We are not due to fly

home until Saturday. We have made the decision ourselves today. We

were due to fly to Cairo this morning, we have decided that's not

such a good idea because the flights are being looked at. We have been

speaking with some other British tourists in the same hotel and they

have been advised to check out as normal and if our flight is still

not going ahead, the Government have said they'll put us in a hotel until

the flights start back again. How do you feel about the situation, are

you worried? We are worried, yes, but we are glad that the Government

are doing something about it. We just hope that in time we'll be able

to fly home, on Saturday security we hope will be at its highest. We were

talking to another holiday-maker saying security in Sharm El-Sheikh

itself in the resort is high but it's quite a different situation at

the airport. What is your perspective on security? When we

arrived at the airport, security wasn't brilliant. It's a lot

different to what we have experienced in other airports

travelling before. They haven't got the level of security that we are

used to. We are travelling around the resort and have been on a couple

of trips and have gone outside. There are security checkpoints and

measures in place to check vehicles and things. But the airport itself

is very open, it's got a small fence surrounding the airport which means

really easy access. So you feel quite safe being in Sharm El-Sheikh

itself? The Government says there is no reason to be at all concerned in

the resort? Yes, we feel quite safe in the hotel. That's not an issue.

It's just more about flying. We were due to fly out this morning to

Cairo, we have made the decision not to go because the Government have

suggested that only emergency flights leaving Sharm should be

taken, not for just tourist trips. And you have said that you will fly

out of Cairo, is that right, rather than Sharm El-Sheikh? No, no, it was

just going to be a day trip, we were due to come back and then fly out of

Sharm on Saturday. Thank you very much Lesley Anne,

good luck with getting home on Saturday, as you're planning to.

Let's bring you some of your comments. Debra says the plane

crashed a few days ago now, if terrorists wanted to blow up another

plane they would have done it by now. It's serious but no coincidence

the UK are putting the ban on now because of the Sisi visit, the

President of Egypt in London today. Another Twitter person says, it

seems premature, the investigating authorities haven't come to any

conclusions yet. Rick on e-mail says the talk is about Sharm El-Sheikh.

What is the advice flying to other Red Sea resorts. We'll speak to an

ABTA representative later so we can put that question to her. Nanny

state Government says another texter, the British Government

inconveniencing everyone while they are in defile of the footage shown

with the downing of the aircraft. Thank you very much for joining us

today. How much do you know about what your children are doing online?

The mother who lost her son after he was groomed over the internet

and then murdered joins us to warn parents be more vigilant about

We meet a man who has suffered brain damage after he was Tasered twice by

police. Work begins to return

an estimated 20,000 British tourists from Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt

after the UK suspends all flights to Airlines are telling us that they

expect that by tomorrow they will be in a position to start flying

British visitors back to the UK, so we are spending today with the

airlines, Egyptian authorities, putting in place short-term

emergency measures that will allow us to screen everything going on to

those lanes, double-check those planes, so we are confident that

they can fly back safely to the UK. The government's emergency committee

Cobra meets again this morning as intelligence reports suggest

a bomb may have caused the Russian Ministry of Defence experts have

joined a team going to Sharm el Sheikh to look at security.

New figures show big differences in the way police and prosecutors

deal with allegations of rape across England and Wales.

The Inspectorate of Constabulary says the proportion

of suspects charged with rape fell in the last year and is as low

MI5 has secretly been collecting vast amounts of data

about UK phone calls to search for terrorist connections.

According to the government's terror watchdog, the 10-year programme has

been allowed to happen because of 'vague' laws.

This comes as Home Secretary Theresa May introduces a new tougher law

that would require UK internet service providers to store every

customer's browsing history for a year. The social network giant

Facebook has reported a big jump in profits thanks to an increase

The social media company said income was up 11% to ?579 million

for the period between July and September.

It also said there had been a big increase in users from new markets.

Sir Elton John says his charitable foundation is to

donate ?3 million to improve access to HIV treatments

for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in Africa.

His contribution will be matched by the US government,

as part of a joint initiative to focus on vulnerable groups

Hugh has all the sport now, and a disappointing day

Calamity for English cricketers in the final and deciding test against

Pakistan. Four wickets fell in the first half an hour of the final day,

including three in the final balls. England have lost the match by 127

runs and dropped to number six in the world rankings with the number

one side South Africa lying in wait next month. They lose the series 2-0

in the UAE. A positive outlook for years a Marini and the Chelsea team.

He thanked the club's amazing fans after the 2-1 win over Dean emerged

yet. -- pose a Marini. Arsene Wenger lost 5-1 in Germany to buy in many

-- to die in Munich. -- chose a new Ennio. Some golf action from China.

Rory McIlroy has recovered from food poisoning poisoning. All of that to

come at 10am. A mum whose son was groomed online

and then murdered has told this programme all parents should be much

more aware of the dangers their The warning, from Lorin Lavafe who's

son Breck Bednar was killed in 2014, comes as a report suggests kids

aren't telling their parents what But first lets take a look at that

research commissioned by Almost half the children asked

admitted that their parents only know some of what they do online.

One in nine said their parents nothing about their online

activity. And, a third of young said they find it easier to show

their real personality on the internet than with people

face-to-face. The report also found that professionals and parents lack

the technical expertise to check Our reporter Nicola Beckford has

been out to meet some kids and their parents to find out

their experiences online. Once there was a person who tried to

contact me and they said, I know that you took my dad's money, and I

text of them saying, if you text me again, I will call the police, and I

went to my mum and dad and showed them the image. It is always on your

mind, particularly with the location, particularly casual

children can allow people to know where they are, and people often

have specific details about your children that you cannot understand

how they would have that. BB does not have Facebook. -- Phoebe. Still,

the specific information and nature of the way they are fishing, it is

very frightening stop I do know that people try and find out details

about you. They did not tell us what they do with that but they try and

find your name, and address, e-mail address. Telephone number, that kind

of thing. I think every parent in the world who has any awareness has

to be concerned about those kinds of things. Whilst you don't need to go

overboard, the instances of of things happening are extremely

rare. Of course, the extremely rare does happen and you need to be

cautious. This advert came up and it's did not have the skip in three

second thing, you had to watch it, there was a short scene of

paranormal activity, and I was really young and did not want to see

it, and it was stuck in my brain for a long time. She was really upset.

Yes. It takes a little while for them to come and tell you they are

upset but she finally came up and told me. It then takes a long time

to talk her down and that would not have happened when we were young. My

favourite singer released a new song and I typed in the first two letters

of it and it came up so I tap on it on my phone, and I accidentally

tapped on something underneath it, and it was quite disturbing. It was

a picture of... This person... And they were pretty much naked.

Let's talk now to Lorin Lafave who's 14 year old son Breck was killed

last year by a teenager who groomed him

online - and Mum of two Claire Kelly and Mum of three Gillian Parker.

Breck was doing online gaming, how much did you know of what he was

doing? He was in year nine and had some friends from year for who

invited them into his gaming group and I felt comfortable with that

because I knew some of the boys on working at school with them, and

nice set of young men. He spent more and more time on the Internet, not

just gaming, you were socialising, he had three screens with one game,

one had texting, another screen had images that would pop up on a site

they would use that is similar to Skype. I could see why they would

interact socially in this way because it was quite exciting. A lot

of the kids you knew because he had known them for years but it became

clear that summary else was in the group, how did you become aware? --

someone else. I noticed fairly soon that there was a voice that was more

mature, and when I asked Breck, he said he was running the server, and

when I ask what he looked like, he showed me a picture of a very

attractive boy with a tie. It may me wonder why somebody would have that

as a gaming icon because he looked too dressed up and too pretty. I

asked Breck and he said it was for a laugh. As time went on, I found out

it was not his picture and when pressing Breck to finance who this

person was, we could never be shown his picture because he did not want

to be seen which is a huge time something was not right. Breck was

open with you about what he was doing, and this person was as well,

wasn't he? You spoke to him? Breck spoke to me about this person, he

was very open, and I think I knew a lot more than any other parents and

that is why I became aware because there were very tall tales of him

offering Breck opportunities to be a Microsoft apprentice, getting him

jobs, FBI careers, major opportunities that did not seem

possible, but to Breck, Agassi was interested in commuting, it was

something he wanted to be involved with. Alarm bells rang, how did you

handle your concerns? I spoke to Breck more and more, I spoke to

teachers at school, nobody passed on any of the agencies that I know

about now. Barndado's, NSPCC, there were so many I did not know about,

so I kept talking to people and they said he will grow out of it, but I

felt that Breck was being groomed. His ideology and personality was

being changed, and he was pulling away from his usual social scene, he

wanted to pull away from the air cadets, family activities. I thought

it was a teenage phase but part of it I could feel was this person

pulling Breck away from me. You could see this happening, did you

feel you could do anything to stop it? I got so frustrated that I

eventually called the police because I knew this person was not who he

said he was and I felt there was a huge danger, and I spent 30 minutes

on the phone explaining my concerns to the police, that I felt Breck was

being groomed. The predator was even telling me what to do and how to

parent my son. The evening I phoned the police, I took away Breck's

technology for a week. I had long conversations about doing it because

I love him. He had a -- he was a clever boy and had a lot of friends

at school and I felt taking away the technology would get him back on

track. I met some other parents. This person would not show his face,

why, what is the reason? He was offering Breck all these career

opportunities and he was just dangling a carrot in front of my

son. I forbade Breck from gaming, speaking or socialising with this

predator. But he ended up going to his house and being murdered?

Unfortunately, at the point I forbade Breck, everything went

underground. He then knew that he was known by the parents and to be

unsafe and unsavoury. He was gifting the boys an 18-year-old game through

the computer, through the Internet, each week, which parents could not

be aware of because it was arriving over the Internet was PZ Breck a

secret phone and made arrangements and offered to pay for him to go to

his flat and give him a career in a software company which did not

exist. He said he was sick. As clever as Breck was, he was still

only 14 years old and he believed it. He wanted to make something of

himself and not as was the opportunity of a lifetime. Groomers

will do anything to manipulate and control children to get what they

want, and ultimately what they want is not good. Any parent listening

will be listening and thinking -- any parent listening will be

thinking that you did everything right, there was open to medication

with Breck, you took action and went to the police, is there anything you

feel you could have done differently? A million things go

through my head about how I could have changed my life but what I

learnt is that I definitely should have contacted CEOP and some of the

other agencies because they are trained on grooming and understood

the danger signs that the police did not believe Breck was being groomed

even though he was. A charity that is involved in exportation such as

Barnardos. Predators can use anything to get through to

children, whether it is a dance career, a football team, anything. I

would definitely use CEOP, Barnardos, and any other charity

that offers advice. I went to the highest in the land by going to the

police but do not stop at one source. Speak to the school, other

parents who they game with. I did try to get through to other parents

but if this can happen to Breck, who had friends, he did not realise he

was being groomed, and he had no idea that anything was untoward, he

just felt like he was learning. He was learning to encrypt, take apart

his computer and put it back together, make it more speedy and

efficient, he had no idea that when there was evil behind this false

friendship. When you talk about going to CEOP, what could they have

done that would have been different? Everything you have done is what you

did. Breck went on a safety course for the inter-0, didn't he? --

Internet. I asked how the assembly was and he said, yes, fine, mum,

boring. The work of the foundation is to try and reach children that is

not sound like a parent or teacher nagging them. I want to use Breck

Astory to get through to other young children that this could happen to

anyone. -- Breck's. We live in a nice neighbourhood, it can happen to

anyone. Tell us more about the foundation. We set it up out of the

tragedy because something good had to come out of it. It is painful to

work with but gives me some sort of relief that I am trying to save

others. I am very passionate about it. Every parent I talked to is

worried about it. We can't keep up technologically without children

nowadays because they are so savvy, and Breck had all sorts of ways of

re-routing his signal, he was really savvy on the computer, but we also

get busy as parents and don't have time to understand it. I tried to

talk to my 14-year-old triplets about it but even then I am worried.

Two out of three of the triplets said their parents only know some of

what they do online. They admitted that only some of what they do

online. As parents, we have a huge job to try and keep our children

safe and we have to continue to talk to them, but don't stop at one

source. Speak to the school, speak to as many agencies, go online, I

did not use those resources as I could have and that is a huge regret

that I have. Let's bring in Clare Kelly, the mother of a 15-year-old,

and Gillian, who has three children. Thank you for joining us. You have

been listening to Lauren. Tell us your thoughts on how you view what

your kids are up to online. Claire? With Beth and 15, she pretty much

pleases herself. Charlie has more input. Charlie, we have more input.

What I do for work, we go into schools and teach about sexual

relationships, and we are talking about appropriate images and how

they can be shared in primary school. Where the images go, what

can happen to them, is it appropriate for people to show you

images? Basically, Internet safety in line with what primary schools

are doing. Less so at comprehensive schools, we are finding more and

more young people are disclosing to us issues of sexting which we have

not seen over the last few years which is becoming more evident as an

issue. Gillian, what is your perspective on

how to handle kids online and what is potentially out there? I don't

think the problem is just about protecting them online. I think this

problem of children being targeted has always existed. Unfortunately,

the Internet adds another further dimension. Unfortunately, for the

lady whose son died, she tried everything and she still couldn't

prevent the tragedy that ended his life. I think it's about being

achoir of all the dangers but not getting them out of proportion. I

think people are blaming the Internet for things that are

happening when it's perhaps more about the people behind it, the

actors, the behaviour, they'll find a way, unfortunately. It's difficult

isn't it for parents, obviously wanting to trust their kids, wanting

to give them freedom, wanting to let them do what everyone else is up to

but protecting them. A texter said this is Tim, saying I'm worried

about my 12-year-old, I've always trusted her because that's important

in a family but lately she's become withdrawn. I don't want to snoop in

her browsing history but the current climate makes me think I must. What

do you think about how much parents should monitor and look whether the

kids are aware of it or not? I wouldn't. I personally don't monitor

my daughter online. We have had a conversation about privacy and we

have had conversations that started a long time ago about what happens

on the Internet and questioning, why would people get in touch with me,

and to be aware of, that stranger danger really. Also to be aware of

how images are misused and how things that they see on the Internet

aren't always true, it's a constructed image.

So I perhaps naively trust my daughter and we have a conversation.

In fact we had a conversation again last night following my chat with

your researcher about Facebook settings and we went back on to my

daughter's Facebook settings and changed them and actually changed

the settings on my Facebook account as well. So I think one of the

issues is about how much information we give to Internet providers and

services like Facebook or Twitter. We give away a lot of information

that allows people to build a picture of us and makes us

vulnerable and it's about making sure that we consider very carefully

before we put anything on a digital media format. Claire, what are your

thoughts? I guess everyone's feeling their way through it and learning as

they go? Yes, my daughter doesn't have her picture on Facebook. She is

very careful what she puts on. She's only friends with people that she

knows. She has a quite mature attitude towards the Internet in

that she did a piece for the WMCA about how young people can use the

Internet to their advantage -- YMCA. I'm not naive enough to think that's

OK. We have talked a lot about the Internet, but she's very Internet

savvy that it can be a good vehicle and she would argue that young

people should be able to use the Internet as they wish, but we do

have settings in place, we do talk about the Internet, she doesn't

share personal information, she's very aware. Going back to what was

said about e safety in school, she did come home and say, another one

of those e safety lectures and I don't think the message is getting

across to young people how important it is. What are your thoughts,

Lauren? I think the difficulty is when we have friends on Facebook,

friends of friends or other friends that are bought into gaming groups

is where the danger comes because I consider my friends safe and Brett

considered all of his school friends safe but somewhere along the line

they had invited this predator right into their own group, into our own

homes. We did create the tag line, we have it on our wrist bands, play

virtual, live real, we are not saying get off the Internet, that's

not the evil bit, you know, we are saying enjoy, socialise, learn, have

a good time on the net but keep it safe, so play virtual but stay alive

by living real. So maybe be much more circumspect

about who your kids' followers are because they all want as many as

possible? They all want to be popular and be loved but it's very

difficult these days, girls especial hi want to post pictures and pose

and it's happening with my children's friends, they are posing

and showing too much cleavage at a young age, it's trying to be too

popular too soon for the wrong reasons. What is the best way for a

parent to get that message through a child? You said often it's better

for them to hear it from someone else, but obviously the parents want

to do whatever they can? Make sure you are speaking to your children. I

think speak to them and speak to them again, you know, tell them why

you care and use stories of real life people that lost their lives or

have been injured or bullied online because it can really hurt your

self-confidence and self-esteem even by being bully and there were

several boys being bullied in this gaming group as well if they didn't

agree with this predator's point of view. It's very harming in the long

run. We need to look after each other. A person being groomed may

not realise they are being groomed, so someone else needs to report that

and the person being bullied may be too embarrassed to put their hand

up, they may be afraid they'll get bullied more, so we need others to

look after each other, make reports and find out if there's more to know

behind the Internet scene. Also one thing, just seeing Facebook profits

today, if the Government doesn't have enough money to put funding in,

can we ask social media, you know, they are making money, I think it's

a social responsibility to put money into funding and safety to help to

keep our children safe online because, no matter what we do, as

Gillian said, there'll always be evil out there and the Internet is a

just another method to get through to our children. Thank you very much

for coming in and talking to us and Claire and Gillian as well. Thank

you very much. We'll bring you some more comments later.

Coming up; we'll hear why government cuts to social housing rents may not

The government is working with airlines to bring thousands

of Britons home from the Egyptian resort Sharm el-Sheikh after it

All flights were grounded after US and UK intelligence suggested

a bomb may have caused a Russian jet from Sharm to crash

UK Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said security would be tightened

and it is hoped flights will resume on Friday.

The UK government's emergency committee Cobra is to meet later.

Anon text - Hearing plenty of reports about UK

I am due to fly out of Hurghada Egypt and back to the UK tomorrow

and have heard nothing about this airport regarding increased

Considering it is not that far from Sharm I can't understand why!

Jake on text - I fly for a living and I'd

like to stress to the British public that British airlines take all

Air travel is safe and believe me the British

government demand the highest training for all airline personnel.

I do hope this disruption will be kept to a minimum but I do have

Jacqui on email - I think the government has responded perfectly.

Those who think it's an over reaction wouldn't say that

Better to be inconvenienced than suffer an attack.

Daniel on text - I have recently come back

from sharm and the security at the airport is absolutely horrendous!

when we went through security the guy that scans your bags was

the pat down searches they do - well, they just pat your chest then

let you through - its absolutely shocking. Nagwa on email - I don't

understand why flights from the UK to Sharm have also been halted.

So why not let these people carry on with their holiday plans?

What is the advice? The advice hasn't changed. It's very important

that if you are out there in resort, stay in resort, things will be

functioning as normal and keep in contact with your travel provider.

What about if you are here and have a trip planned? Contact your travel

provider. Programmes have been cancelled for the next seven days,

so if you haven't had contact from your travel agent, contact them.

It's an evolving situation beyond that so keep an eye on what is going

on. Should any holiday-maker be out-of-pocket because obviously this

is something that's out of their hands? No. In a nutshell, they

shouldn't be. Effectively, if you are in resort at the moment, you

will be on holiday so you are continuing that as normal and the

operators will arrange for you to be brought back safely or continue your

holiday as planned. The key thing in the next 24-48-hours is to see what

is happening in terms of the return flight arrangements actually from

Sharm El-Sheikh Airport itself. And Sharm is a very popular destination

for British tourists, a rare destination in Egypt to continue to

thrive in the way that it has, I mean obviously it's difficult to

know the impact of this, but this will be causing concern for anybody

who is potentially thinking about going there? Sharm is very popular.

Other parts of Egypt we know there are travel warnings in place for

some other parts of Egypt at the moment. I think in terms of

specifically Sharm itself, the key thing is to follow the advice, but

actually the resort itself is functioning as normal and there's

been no impact. We have heard a lot from holiday-makers there today

who're stranded, saying that the security in Sharm is very visible

and has been? Yes. The Egyptian authorities put in security measures

after the Arab Spring so a map of Egypt shows it's on a peninsula in a

bubble so from a security perspective, the Foreign Office if

it had concerns, they would change their advice but haven't done so

which is obviously a signal that it's continuing as normal. How

unusual is a situation like this? It's unusual to see a situation

where the airport alone is isolated in terms of the Foreign Office

changing its advice. That is certainly unusual. You wouldn't

typically see a particular region for example if the Foreign Office

were to change its travel advice now, that in itself is unusual but

just to focus specifically on the airports which clearly the Foreign

Office has got concerns about security measures at the airport

itself and is on the ground now, working with the authorities at the

airport, working with the carriers as well to ensure that security

situations in the airport itself is improving. We did have Rick on

e-mail asking all the talk is about Sharm El-Sheikh, what is the advice

for people flying to other Egyptian Red Sea resorts, it's all available

online? Yes, Hurghada is if other resort that hasn't been impacted on

this, this is specifically relating to Sharm El-Sheikh. It's a popular

destination. That is continuing as normal.

Unless there is any different guidance coming out on this, people

in resorts like Hurghada which is very close shouldn't worry? Quite,

exactly. Thank you very much. Victoria Bacon, thank you. Let's

catch up with the latest weather. Sarah is here with the details for

us. Love fireworks night! A good clear night for them? Not

many of us seeing a clear night. We are going to see a lot of cloud

around and it will be a mild night. A night for packing the wellies and

wet weather gear. We have rain around, certainly this evening, and

fireworks displays over the next few days, Friday is set to be a better

evening so drying up through Friday. A bit of rain on Saturday and

staying windy, so a bit mixed. Your best bet of patching some clear

skies is in Wales, Northern Ireland. -- patching. With all the smoke in

the air, there could be some mist and fog. It has been so misty in

London lately. Absolutely, Misty and murky. It is looking a bit mixed.

Quite autumnal. Across the country over the next few days, things are

unsettled. Keeping a mild theme to the weather but there will be rain

moving across the country. Things turning windy and autumnal leaves

being blown off the trees. This is the weather front on the satellite

picked. The cloud is heading toward the UK. The first in a series of

weather fronts over the next few days. Rain across Northern Ireland,

Wales and the South West of England, moving eastwards across the rest of

the country. The north-east of Scotland gets away with dry

weather. By 3pm, most of the rain clears away from the Isles of Scilly

and Cornwall. Brightening up here. Up towards Gloucestershire, Somerset

and Wales, low cloud, rainy and breezy. For Northern Ireland, things

will dry up. In Scotland, the rain pals in, heavy at times on the

hills. Fairly lottery. The North East of Scotland gets away with dry

weather. Spells of heavy rain from northern England, right down towards

the Midlands. East Anglia stays dry. In the South, we could have

gale force gusts with that rain. It does look quite damp for many

places. It will clear up later on in the night. A spell of quieter

weather and as we head through tonight and through the early hours

of Friday, another weather front. A repeat performance of today, a band

of rain working west to east. Look at the temperatures, 18 or possibly

19 degrees in the afternoon. The weather front moved out the way and

Friday evening looks drier. Uncertainty about the detail on

Saturday but we will see where it and windy weather moving across the

country moving quickly. Once that area of low pressure gets out the

way, that they will end on a quiet note. Through Remembrance Sunday, a

local system brings weather front into the Atlantic. It could start

dry and bright for central and eastern areas but in the West, rain

sweeps in. It is above average for the time of year, up to 16 degrees

or so on Sunday. Remembrance Sunday, there will be rain moving eastwards

through the day. It will stay mild but it will be breezy as well. That

is how it is looking. Hello, it's Thursday,

it's ten o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling, welcome to the

programme if you've just joined us. With thousands of tourists stranded

in Sharm el Sheikh, we'll get the latest - and we''ll be live

in Downing Street where ministers are holding emergency talks on the

security situation affecting I'm still waiting to hear back but I

received a message saying there is no new information or no new news.

As to when the flights will go ahead again.

A woman whose son was murdered by an online predator tells other

parents to do all they can to keep their children safe.

I went to the highest in the land by going to the police but do not stop

at one source, speak to the school, speak to other parents that they

gain weight, I did try but it is difficult.

You can see the full interview on our programme page

And a man who suffered a heart attack and brain damage

after he was tasered TWICE by police tells us about his battle to win

Work begins to return an estimated thousands of British tourists

from Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt after the UK suspends all flights to

and from the resort. The government emergency committee Cobra meets

again this morning - as intelligence reports suggest

a bomb may have brought down the Russian passenger jet in Sinai.

We had British aircraft on the ground about to fly back to the UK

and we had to take an immediate decision about what was in the best

interests of the people aboard, what was going to ensure their safety and

security. Ministry of Defence experts have

joined a UK team that's gone to There are big differences in how

police and prosecutors deal with allegations of rape across England

and Wales - new figures show. The Inspectorate of Constabulary

says the proportion of suspects charged with rape fell

in the last year and is as low Research by Barnardos say for

parents do not know what their children get up to online. As

parents, we have a huge job to try and keep our children safe and we

have to continue to talk to them, but do not stop at one source, been

to the school, speak to as many agencies, go online.

It's emerged that MI5 has been secretly collecting vast amounts

of data about UK phone calls, to search for terrorist

The BBC understands that the spy programme has been allowed

The social network giant Facebook has reported a big jump

in profits thanks to an increase in advertising sales.

It also said there had been a big increase in users from new markets.

England's morning started badly and got steadily worse.

Samit Patels wicket was the fourth to go down before lunch.

Captain Alastair Cook was the only batsmen to offer any real

resistance but when he was stumped on 63, any faint hope was gone.

Pakistan winning by 127 runs to take the series 2-nil.

So whilst England struggled in the UAE,

Kevin Pietersen scored a fantastic 115 not-out for the Sunfoil Dolphins

He hit a total of TEN sixes as his side went

on to win the match against the Highveld Lions by a single run.

This will have pleased KP too as a big Chelsea fan.

The pressure has eased slightly on Jose Mourinho, that's after they

beat Dynamo Kiev 2-1 at Stamford Bridge to go second in their

were fortunate with their first goal, Willian's cross

turned into his own net by Dynamo defender Aleksander Dragovic.

The same player though made amends in the second half, a nervy Chelsea

defence allowed Dragovic to score at the right end this time.

But a little bit of Willian magic calmed the home

Chelsea's first win since the middle of last month and support

This is my moment. It was amazing. We are proud of our fans, I do not

have another way to thank them than to give everything I have which I

will do always. Jose Mourinho WILL turn

around Chelsea's fortunes according Jorge Mendes, who also represents

Cristiano Ronaldo, has told the BBC there is "nobody better" to solve

the club's current problems. He does not need to prove anything.

He is special, he's the best, so I think even the reaction from the

supporters, they can tell you everything. You will not find anyone

to solve this problem and he was so weird for sure. -- solve it.

So a good night for Chelsea at last but one to forget for Arsenal.

They equalled their worst defeat in European football

Arsene Wenger's side are now bottom of Group F.

They must win their next two matches AND hope other results go

their way if they're to stand a chance of qualifying

went behind after just ten minutes in the Allianz Arena thanks to

By the time the Gunners decided to pose any threat they were four-nil

down - Olivier Giroud with the consolation goal.

But the five-time European champions weren't done yet -

in the 89th minute. Thomas Muller completed the thrashing with

Finally Rory McIlroy has been suffering from a bout of food

Believe it or not he took a bad turn after eating a club

But he made it to the tee for the opening round of the

McIlroy, the world number three, finished the day 4-under par

Thank you for joining us this morning, welcome to our programme

if you've just joined us, we're on BBC2 and the BBC News

We're keeping you across all the developments

following the government's decision to suspend all flights between

The Prime Minister will chair another emergency meeting later

we're expecting the Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin

We'll bring that to you when it happens.

Steve on e-mail has been saying that he was in Sharm el-Sheikh four

months ago and when going through airport security, I forgot to take

water out of my luggage but going through screening, it was not

detected, how poor, screening needs to be improved. Mark says security

needs tightening, we travel to the area frequently, and the resort is

safe, I have no hesitation and would fly back as soon as I can and would

not be deterred by the events of this tragic incident.

Texts are charged at the standard network rate.

of British tourists are stranded in Egypt with no news of how they'll

get home - after the UK government halted all flights

There are about 20,000 British nationals in Sharm - about half

The British government has said there's a significant possibility

that the group known as Islamic State brought down

a Russian airliner on Saturday, killing all 224 people on board.

It's understood the Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin will be

making a Commons statement on the security situation at Sharm

The Prime Minister is also expected to chair another meeting of Cobra.

Our Correspondent Mark Lowen gave us this update from Sharm el Sheikh.

I got here this morning and there is no sign of British consulate staff.

The British aviation security staff, presumably working behind the

scenes, but there is no sign of them. I am in terminal one where the

easyJet flight to the UK should be departing. I spoke to one chap who

should be flying to Manchester on the easyJet flight that he said the

only information he got was from the easyJet website which said the

flight would not be flying. There are also flights going from the

other terminal which should go to Manchester, two leads, to London as

well, on charter airlines. They have been grounded as well. This morning,

on the departure boards, flights are coming from Russia, Ukraine, Jordan

as well, but no UK flights. It is thought that 20,000 British tourists

are here. This is the main destination for Rajesh tourists

coming to easyJet and it is pretty embarrassing for Egyptian

authorities. Written feels the need to send a security team here to vet

security procedures rather than trusting local authorities. -- Great

Britain. We are hearing that Patrick MacLachlan's statement on the

situation is now going to be at 12:30pm so there will be cabbage of

that later. -- coverage. was confused.

el-Sheik, said the situation there I got a message from easyJet saying

all flights were suspended and is I am waiting to hear back from them

but I received a message saying there is no new information, no new

news as to whether the flights will go ahead again so we're pretty much

just waiting. Are you happy that you are getting as much information as

you can? There is quite a disparity in the information we are getting

between Egyptian sources and British sources. The Foreign Office have

told us that there is a threat and that is why they suspended flights

but Egyptian sources are saying it is mostly propaganda and even at the

Hotel staff have said there are coaches to pick it up and take as

their because the flight is about to leave so everybody is confused. I am

happy with the information we receive from the Foreign Office, it

is conclusive. Richard Lister is at Stansted

Airport for us this morning and our assistant Political Editor Norman

Smith is live in Downing Street. Richard, tell us what the situation

is there? It's pretty calm, Joanna, it seems

like the travel advice has got through to people. I spoke to people

at the easyJet check-in, they just had one flight this morning due to

go at 9. 40 to Sharm El-Sheikh, cancelled of course. They said not

many people tried to check in and it was a very quiet morning so clearly

the advice that went out last night and this morning have had an impact

and people have stayed away from the airport. Everyone's in a holding

pattern really, nobody quite knows how and when they'll be able to get

out to Sharm El-Sheikh or back from Sharm El-Sheikh. We are hearing

encouraging noises that perhaps from tomorrow things might get moving

again, but people are still waiting for advice from their travel company

and that is the advice really, just check in if you have arrangements

with your travel company, check in, don't come to the airport, find out

what is likely to happen. ABTA, the Association of British Travel Agents

says if you have plans beyond the next 48-hours, just hang on because

probably your company won't know exactly what to recommend so

everybody is waiting for clearer instructions about what to do next.

The situation here is calm and if that is any guide, we can probably

hope 2 t situation's been more or less the same at other airports.

Let's go to Norman at Downing Street. An extraordinary

announcement by the Government and I guess it's complicated

diplomatically in that the Egyptian President is in London at the

moment? The Egyptian President will be here to see Mr Cameron at lunch

time and yes, it's profoundly awkward, but ahead of that, the

Prime Minister's going to have to chair an emergency meeting of COBRA

which they'll be trying to put together, some sort of plan, some

sort of thinking and time scale, to get the British tourists home. I

think that could be quite a difficult ask because Philip Hammond

this morning suggested that he hoped that process could begin tomorrow,

but I note he also said that the British Government would do whatever

it takes regardless of how long, regardless of how inconvenient,

regardless of the sort of delays that might be involved which suggest

to me that getting people home actually that could be quite a

protracted process. On top of that, he also suggested that other

countries might follow Britain's example. Now, if other countries do

the same and they choose to put in their security people at Sharm

Airport, then you sense it's going to be a pretty chaotic and difficult

situation there which suggestings to me that getting people home could

actually take time. There has been some suggestions about using RAF

Hercules transporters, but, you know, Joanna, they only take about

100 people each, so the idea you could use them on bulk to get

thousands home, that seems pretty difficult too. The second area they

are going to be looking at at this COBRA meeting is the intelligence.

There does seem to be a growing public acceptance almost that this

was an IS attack because I note when Philip Hammond was asked about it

this morning, he was asked very directly was this an IS attack and

his reply was, that supposition is a possibility. Now, I translate that

to mean that they think it probably was IS, albeit there are all sorts

of afilliated groups. Lastly, as you mentioned, there is the diplomatic

element. President Sisi was here on an official visit anyway, a lot of

controversy about that visit anyway because of his human rights records.

You probably can't hear, but there is a demonstration going on outside

and this morning there were protesters. They are actually still

lying down in front of the entrance to Downing Street in white

Guantanamo-style suits blocking the entrance into Downing Street. It was

a smaller demonstration earlier, actually it's quite a bit bigger and

noisier now. So President Sisi will have to come through that, then

he'll have to have the conversation with David Cameron and that will be

awkward, because Mr Cameron is going to have to explain to him why

British Government does not believe that security at Sharm El-Sheikh

Airport is adequate. In looking at what the security

changes might be, Philip Hammond has said emergency short-term measures

will be put in place. Could it be things like British people getting

involved in security there, armed marshals on flights, I mean how

broadly are they looking at this? I don't think anything is off the

table frankly. I think it's a real possibility that British personnel

in some form may well be staffing the security positions at Sharm

El-Sheikh Airport to supplement the existing routine Egyptian security

checks. Now, that is quite a big ask for the Egyptians to allow that, to

allow another country, as it were, to have their people alongside. But

unless the security officials, British security officials are

absolutely convinced that the Egyptians are completely on top of

this, those planes are not going to return. So for those passengers,

British tourists to get home, the British Government has to be

absolutely 100% convinced that the security is watertight. If that

means in the short-term putting in British personnel to stand

alongside, to advise, to be a presence at the departure gates, I

suspect that is probably what the British Government will ask for.

Still to come: It's been described as one of the worst performing

prisons in the UK. Later this morning a report will be published

into conditions inside a County Antrim prison in Northern Ireland.

We'll have the details and speak to a former prison. -- former prisoner.

When the Government announced it was going to cut rents for people living

in council houses and housing association properties it sounded

The Government says four million will be better off.

But this morning, a report from the Institute for Fiscal Studies

says that two thirds of social tenants, those on housing benefit,

And councils and housing associations have warned that the

reduction will cost them millions, meaning they'll have to cut back

Norfolk Park, a council estate, home to Kim and Liz

Both social housing tenants, both receiving housing benefit to

If you watch a lot of the stuff that is on the telly,

And that is not what most council estates are like.

It does not matter where you live, there is always going to be

What do you think about some of the changes the Government is making?

I'm not convinced that some of it is going to work.

The latest change is a rent reduction for council and

housing association tenants, down 1% a year over the next four years.

Whether it will stay good depends on what the Government do with

Well, the intention is to reduce that.

The Government said it wants to lower the burden on the taxpayer

So the only people that are going to win here are the Government.

If our government money can be spent on other things...?

But you only need to watch anything on the news just recently,

and they do not seem to be spending a lot of money on anything.

They seem to be slashing everybody's budgets.

The central claim here is that although cutting rents will give

people in places like this more money in their pocket, most of them

will not actually be better off at the end of the day, because the

Government also intends to then cut housing benefit. At the same time,

councils will be worse off because they will not get

So, in a city like Sheffield, where the council manages more than

40,000 houses, making it one of the biggest social

landlords, they think this change is going to cost them quite a lot.

Over the next four years, that will be ?27 million out

Over the period of the business plan, which is 30

There is no way that services are not going to be affected with

I have lived in this house just over 20 years now.

Liz is one of the tenants the council says

They are likely to extend things like bathroom refurbishment

The Government is saying they will cut your rent by 1% a year,

but they will probably also cut your housing benefit.

I suppose if it balances out, it is not too bad,

but I suppose it depends on whether it equals itself out or not.

Will it make you any more likely to go out and get a job?

Not at the moment, no, but in the future I will start

looking for work and I would like to get back into work and start

Would you be happy to carry on paying a bit more rent?

I would not mind paying a little bit more.

You do not think the reduction is actually necessary?

The Government says this reduction will benefit 4 million social

housing tenants who pay their own rent without housing benefit.

It says it is determined to deliver higher wages, lower taxes

You would say this, though, you are a Labour councillor,

it is a Conservative government, you do not like what they are doing.

This has been unprecedented, the amount of people that are

We had a tenants' conference in Sheffield two weeks ago

and we discussed the impact of this summer budget.

And they were absolutely clear, they knew this was a bit of a con,

If you live in social housing, this government just do not seem to

David Mackintosh is a former council leader and you are on the Select

Committee that looks at these issues. What about the point there

that it's a contrary to suggest that people in social housing will be

better off? This is about trying to help and support those in social

housing. At the same time as reduce the benefit bill, we are spending

far too much on welfare. We heard the lady saying she's happy not to

have a job and to have her house and benefit paid. That's clearly wrong

and we need to do something about it. Councils are worried. They say

they'll have less cash to spend because of this. The Office for

Budget Responsibility says 14,000 fewer social sector properties will

be built between now and 2021 as a result of reducing the rental income

of social landlords by the amount that is being reduced. Are you

concerned that that impact could outweigh any potential impact to

people, to the individuals who may benefit from the reduction? We want

to see more houses being built and there are ways we can do that. In

Parliament this week we were talking about the Housing Bill which also

includes ways in which we can change the planning process to introduce

the building projects. Housing Associations have huge surpluses

that can be used to offset some of what is being reduced. Housing

Associations receive ?13 billion worth of funding from the taxpayer

every year, most coming through Housing Benefits. Year on year since

20 #10e we have seen a 20% increase in those rents going up. So clearly,

as the rents have gone up, so has the Housing Benefit bill and we need

to reduce that -- 2010. The elements announced by the Chancellor in the

summer shows this request saver ?1. Billion so it has to be done and

housing associations and the councils need to look at ways to use

their surpluses and different ways of doing things -- ?1.4 billion.

Some are saying they won't have the money to spend on maintenance at the

properties, so things like that will have to change, so people could find

themselves in much worse quality housing as a result of this? I think

with Housing Associations in particular, I was a council leader

when the last spending round was announced and it was very difficult

for the sector to understand what the impact would be and clearly

there was a lot of scaremongering at the time. Having led an authority

through that, there are many ways in which you can save millions of

pounds of taxpayers' money by doing things different. Like what? And

also protecting the frontline services you have. So that could be

that some Housing Associations have to work closer together and that's

no bad thing. Many local authorities have been sharing their back office.

So things about their staff, their payroll, HR, IT for example, that

could be looked at and that protects the frontline services that tenants

will see, so there isn't really a need to change some of those and

many have great services to offset this. So you are saying reduce staff

by working more closely together? I would say reduce back office staff.

The frontline is very important. Some people do very important jobs

to help people in difficult circumstances but I think the sector

is getting used to new proposals that they haven't had to face up to

in the Le cent past and they need to look at things differently --

recent. They can learn a lot from councils who've done these things

over the years and there's still more that can be done. Thank you

very much indeed. Thank you for joining us today. Still to come:

We meet the man who suffered a heart attack

and brain damage after being tasered TWICE by police as he tells us about

And the surge in Israeli-Palestinian violence is now entering its second

month - we meet young people living amid the violence in Jerusalem.

Work begins to return thousands of British tourists

from Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt - after the UK suspended flights.

And many would-be holidaymakers due to fly OUT -

The Foreign Secretary has defended decisions to ground flights. We had

British aircraft on the ground about to fly back to the UK and we had to

take an immediate decision about what was in the best interests of

the people aboard, what was going to their safety and security. Cobra is

meeting again this morning as intelligence reports suggest a bomb

may have brought down a Russian passenger jets. -- jet.

There are big differences in how police and prosecutors deal with

allegations of rape across England and Wales - new figures show.

The proportion of suspects charged with rape fell

in the last year - and is as low as six per cent in one area.

New warnings about kids and teens activity online - research

by the charity Barnardo's found that around half of children admitted

their parents don't always know what they get up to on the web.

Lorin Lafave, whose son was murdered by an online

predator told this programme people should make more use of the

resources available to protect and educate them and their children.

As parents, we have a huge job, to try and keep our children safe, and

we have do continue to talk to them but do not stop at one source, speak

to the school, speak to as many agencies, go online.

It's emerged that MI5 has been secretly collecting oceans

of data about UK phone calls to search for terrorist connections,

The BBC has been told that the spy programme has been allowed

The social network giant Facebook has reported a big jump in profits.

It's because it's selling more adverts.

There's also been a big increase in users from new markets.

Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh.

Hello, the main sporting headlines this morning.

England's cricketers lost final Test to Pakistan by 127 runs

after a poor batting performance on the final day in Shar-ger.

They lost their last 7 wickets for just 99 runs, captain

The pressure has eased slightly on Jose Mourinho.

A wonderful free-kicks from Willian earned Chelsea a 2-1 win over Dynamo

Kiev to move them up to second in their Champions League Group.

They equalled their worst defeat in European football

They are now bottom of their group, with manager Arsene Wenger saying

they have only a "small chance" of reaching the knockout stages.

And Rory McIlroy has recovered from the effects

of a dodgy club sandwich to made it to the tee for the opening round

McIlroy, the world number three, finished the day 4-under par

OK, that's all the sport for now but I'll have more on BBC News

Check out the BBC Sport website too for all

It's been described as one of the worst performing jails in the UK.

Within the next hour a report will be published into conditions inside

Maghaberry Prison, which is just outside Lisburn in County Antrim in

Northern Ireland. The prison has had its fair share of problems.

Every week on average four prisoners attempt to take their own lives.

murdered on his way to work. In 2012, a prison officer was

And in 2013 there was a 400% increase in the amount of drugs

seized from inmates compared to the year before

seized from inmates compared to the The Victoria Derbyshire programme

understands that the report will be highly critical of the prison

management and of the healthcare arrangements in place for prisoners.

But what is life like in Maghaberry particularly if you have a medical

Neil Nabney is a former prisoner, he was jailed for riotious assembly but

We are also joined by Professor Phil scraped and from Queen's University,

Belfast. Neil, you have experienced life behind bars, what was it like?

As soon as I went in, it felt like you had been abandoned. Your

punishment is being taken out of society but once you are in jail,

you feel like you are being punished further every day. There were not

enough staff to deal with everything and from a medical point of view, it

was negligence. No matter how many complaints bulletin, they went

unanswered. Every prisoner was looked at as a prisoner, we do not

care. That was the attitude. Obviously you are making a specific

allegation of medical negligence but we do not know the background to

your treatment or the situation but tell us more about the health

conditions that you had. You went in having had an operation and

therefore had specific requirements once you are there, presumably? I

was born with a condition where one of the symptoms is lack of jaw, and

if that is not grow, it can restrict your airways. The operation went

wrong and there is some nerve damage and bone degradation which can make

eating difficult and cause chronic pain, and I cannot function without

medicine on a daily basis, and they were the requirements I needed in

prison. They did not seem to know how to deal with me and made through

drugs at it or put me on copious amounts of drugs to the point that I

was sleeping 17, 18 hours a day. Plus, it is hard to say whether they

couldn't or wouldn't write me with sustenance but I had to do it with

my own money from the tuck shop. Milk chocolate, fizzy drinks. The

only people who were taken on to help me were the prison orderlies

and stop they were getting me food and if they had not helped me, I

would have had no help at all. More generally, about prison behaviour

and the way it is managed inside the jail, tell me what you saw and heard

of all of that. Throughout my time, I noticed that there were many

attacks on staff. Whether they were warranted or not, that is a

different story. Because the staff levels were increasingly dropping

and there were no staff, sometimes we were on 24 hour lockdown. The

prisoners would get up tight and agitated. It was like a powder keg

ready to go. The more fights, the more attacks on staff, and then

staff would go off on the sick. It would spiral. Professor, you have

looked at what happens inside Maghaberry and other prisons, it is

extraordinary to hear that for prisoners attempt to take their

lives every week inside Maghaberry, what is your view of the situation

inside that jail? The situation is dire, and Neil's very clear and

lucid explanation of his own experience is, they are so typical

of prisoners I have spoken to inside Maghaberry especially. It is a

long-standing issue of institutionalised malaise. When we

produced our report for the human rights commission in Northern

Ireland, we found the prison estate was not fit for purpose, the

management and staff were not trained, there was a culture of

non-engagement with prisoners, and Neil has acknowledged that there has

been some engagement with orderly staff, but we found a culture of

impunity and denial, one in which people reacted to rather than

proactive treatments. This really comes to the core of people

attempting to take their own lives. There was inadequate mental health

care, minimal out of cell time, lack of constructive activities. We

worked with families where we found inadequate visit, and poor family

contact. There were continued barriers to oversight and

monitoring. All of this has to be put in the context of a report that

came out as long ago as 2004, when the Northern Ireland affairs

committee stated that this was the most complex and difficult prison in

Europe. They went through the range of prisoners held in that prison,

ordinary remand prisoners, sex offenders, asylum seekers, members

of different loyalist organisations, members of different

Republican organisations, that is the small group of people who are

politically affiliated prisoners. Short-term prisoners, long-term

prisoners, remand prisoners, where you are having a different culture

of engagement. Remand prisoners are more like a revolving door.

Long-term prisoners are having to spend the next ten years in that

prison. That complexity is not only been recognised in terms of our own

inspections here, and there have been successive inspections, this is

the fifth by my reckoning since that period. Every single one of those

reports as stated that this is a failing prison. White does nothing

change? -- why. You hit the nail on the head. Just as an pleasing was

the role to be government here in 2010. A prison review team was set

up that reported in 2011, and in that they made 40 detailed

recommendations. They recommended that Maghaberry should operate three

smaller discrete units, one for remand is, one for long sentences

and life, and one for those of high risk. -- Raman. In that, what you

do, by breaking down a prison into component parts, you then treat

individuals according to their needs, and we have two, as Neal so

clearly said, prison is the punishment, not what happens to you

when you go to prison. What we should be putting in place if we

want to help people with their mental health conditions or physical

health conditions, and we want to return people to society better able

to cope with their lives and when they went in, we have to respond to

their needs, and we cannot do that in a highly complex and by a tile

environment where the staff are not train. -- volatile. -- trained. When

you say why that does not happen, it takes political will and appropriate

form of the system that has carried institutionalised malaise at its

core for over 20 years. Thank you both very much. Some breaking news

to bring you. A 56-year-old woman has been arrested by officers from

the Metropolitan police counterterrorist command on

suspicion of disseminating terrorist publication. We will bring you more

if we get any more on that. Imagine going on a night out

and waking up not remembering Well, that is exactly what happened

to James McCarthy, three years ago when he was tasered by police twice

in Liverpool and suffered Earlier this week, James won

a case against Merseyside Police for "excessive use of force" and

negligence after use of a Taser. It's the first civil court ruling

of this kind in the country. After the incident

in 2012 the Independent Police Complaints Commissions said

the Taser use had been appropriate. Merseyside Police say they

may appeal the ruling. Here with me now is James McCarthy

and his dad Dominic. Thank you for coming in. James, I

know that you did not remember anything after this attack. Tell us

how your life has changed and what your life has been like? -- it has

been difficult since it happened. I lost work, I lost my business, I

could not afford to live in my own home any more, and I had to rebuild

relations with my family and friends, my memory of who they were

had gone. You were tasered for 11 seconds, and it was that in

particular that has been criticised in this judgment, not the use of the

Taser in itself. It caused you brain damage. Tell us what level of brain

damage you suffered. It was minor brain damage, there was cardiac

arrest which stop oxidant going to the brain. I'm not sure how long but

for six or seven minutes I had no oxidant going to the brain. --

oxygen. That obviously wiped out my memory after the brain damage. You

are now looked after by your dad Dominic, and your mum at home.

Dominic, what state was James in when you first saw him after this?

He was in an induced coma and after the claiming he a 3 second memory

and then it has got better and better. He knew who his parents

were, his sisters and brothers, but did not know how he was with them so

it was a proper start from day one. It must have been a terrible shock

for you and your wife to find yourself caring for your son in that

way. How had he changed, what was he like before? He enjoyed life, and

then from that day, it went downhill. We had the judgment from

the County Court judge saying that the use of the Taser in your case,

James, was excessive and disproportionate to the threat posed

by you. What impact would you like the judgment you have? I do not

think Taser should be used by police. It is proved they do kill

people survey should not use them, they should be banned.

Previous rulings have said the use of Tasers is acceptable, it was the

specific duration when it was used on you for 11 seconds that was the

particular issue? That's left in the hands of the police officer how long

they are going to use it for so, you know, in my opinion they should be

banned completely. Obviously, your dad was saying your memory has

improved since... The function of my memory has improved. A the moment

it's functioning correctly but the memories I've lost my whole life

that have been wiped out will not come back now. So now the way has

been paved for you to get compensation? Yes. What will happen

with that, are discussions ongoing? In what way? The level of

compensation and what it might be and how long it might take to be

agreed? I think it's going to be some time next year when they agree

on the level of compensation but we'll have to go through that with

the solicitor and have another hearing next year to decide on how

much and what type that I should get. Obviously, there's no amount of

compensation or money that it's worth, losing effectively your whole

life, it means starting again and obviously the relationship with my

family and friends, losing all that, that's more important, I would

rather take that back than have some money. There should be some

substantial compensation for what they done to me. How would you

describe what you have lost, Dominic, and what James has lost?

It's been the worst three years of the whole family's life. Even

talking about it is horrible what's gone on, so, there's in way back, we

have got to go forward. We thought he wasn't going to come out of his

coma so it's a bonus now that he's here, that's how we go forward with

it. How hard has it been having to nurse him through this? It's been

horrible day-by-day. The first few days, he had a three second memory,

he was saying the same thing every three seconds for hours, we

shouldn't go through it, no-one should go through it. It's a

lottery, they fire a Taser and don't know what is wrong with the people.

Going back to that night, James doesn't have memories of it, what

were you told had happened? The police never told us. James's

friends came and told us. So he was in hospital? Yes. You didn't know

why? His friends thought he was dead on the floor so we were going to

hospital thinking he was dead. We got to the hospital and the police

said that he was alive, in an induced coma, only two people to the

bed at the time. Me and my wife went to the bed and three police officers

sat around the bed with us and I was asking them to go out. They were

saying we need to arrest him and I said go out and it took us two days

to get rid of them. That was horrendous as well. After that, did

you feel you were treated sympathetically, what happened? Not

at all. The CID came to see us on the first day and said, their words

were "we were justified in what we done" she told us, when he was in a

coma. Now you have got this court judgment, how important is that to

you? Very important that we won this case. The money, does the money

matter? No, winning the case was the main thing to prove that they

shouldn't be allowed to do what they done or leaving him on the floor,

you know, with no pulse. There should be better after-care once

someone's been Tasered, there should be a process they go through to make

sure they are OK. Clearly they didn't go through any process. They

left him on the floor flat. They should have checked his vitals. He

was left for six minutes, from what we saw on CCTV. Obviously, you have

strong thoughts about Tasers now and feel that they shouldn't be used?

Yes. But in terms of how you two move on, do you kind of park that

now, sort out the compensation and move on or will you campaign, what

will you do? I think obviously I'm still in the process of getting

myself fully fit, so once this court case is out the way and once I've

had compensation, I can move on from that, then yes I think that will be

something that I'll look into getting Tasers off the streets.

People can have underlying health issues after being Tasered, so the

police shouldn't be using them. No matter how long they use it for, the

Taser killed me so... You feel like the old you has gone when you say it

killed you? Yes, I'm a completely different person from before the

Taser, yes, 100%. I've had to rebuild my whole life as a new

person and the amount of conversation, I was running my own

business, had my own home and that's all been taken away from me. That

compensation will allow me to get myself back to work, retrain and go

from there. Thank you both very much. Yes, thank you.

Some break news to bring you. We are hearing that the Dutch Ministry of

Foreign Affairs is now advising against travel to or from Sharm

El-Sheikh airport, that announcement following the flight ban by the UK.

Dutch people in Egypt are being advised to contact their travel

agents and the suspension of flights is down to airlines, but it's the

first country to follow on from the UK Government's announcement that

British passengers should not fly out of Sharm El-Sheikh. We'll keep

you up-to-date. A surge in dead Lynn Palestinian violence has had more

stabbings reported this week. So far 11 Israelis have been killed and

more injured. 69 Palestinians, including attackers, have been

killed. There are also attacks where a vehicle is rammed into a crowd or

a queue. It's all creating a climate of great fear and trepidation on the

streets. Ben Allen has travelled to Jerusalem where much of the violence

has taken place to talk to young people living through the latest

crisis. TRANSLATION: Jerusalem is my home -

where I was born. It is the place where we live

and learn. I hate to say this, but everybody

just seems suspicious to me. And it is horrid to live

in a world where you always have to look over your shoulder to make sure

that you are OK. It has been more scary, and it

has changed my daily routine. It has been more scary, and it

has changed my daily routine. I guess just

the things that I used to do - take the bus to work, take the bus

back, go out with my friends. And I don't think I am

the only one who feels that way, because I can see the streets and I

can see that people do not go out You can see it in their eyes,

really. Today was the first time in a

while that I took the bus. I was so aware of everything

around me, and you look to see who is, I don't know, who looks

suspicious or who has a look. And I guess this is what we

live right now in the city. We have here the Jewish districts,

and on the other side, it is the Palestinian

neighbourhoods, where Arabs live. In the last three weeks,

when events have unfolded, they put And it is the first time

I have ever felt that. I feel they don't care

about my life or my safety. But you are in fact just an ordinary

person going about your business. It makes you sad,

but mostly just angry, the way they keep a distance from you makes you

feel like you are disgusting. These are two neighbourhoods,

Sur Baher and Jabal Mukabbir, which are Arab neighbourhoods, and

as you can see, they are bordering exactly with a Jewish neighbourhood,

which is Arnona, where I work. And even despite the soldiers,

that is just for security reasons, I can go in and they can come out

as much as they want. But over the past few weeks,

we have had terrorists come in a lot from these two neighbourhoods

into the Jewish neighbourhood Even though I work here

and everything is very close, I do not feel safe walking

into these neighbourhoods In the past, it has been just

way more easy to move around. I think that the government has

realised that it is impossible to allow people to move in and out

as much as they want if there can be a danger in any way to people who

are living in old Jerusalem. And so I know that they have built,

or intend to build a fence, or bigger fence, between

the neighbourhoods, and restrict And I think that is

a really good idea - for me. The main clashes

in Jerusalem happen in Issawiya. You can see the checkpoint that the

Israeli army put on the entrance. So you can see people are

walking out on foot. Go out from Issawiya to go through

the bus to go to work or university They are checked by their identities

and their bags and everything they And they are just waiting for

a long time because it is crowded. You can see, many people are

going out at the same time. But Israel is controlling,

the occupation is controlling There needs to be a firmer hand

on terror, absolutely. I do not see any justification to

murder, to stabbing people, to throwing rocks or any type

of other terror attacks. And I do not want to get to

the point where I have to do this. I do not understand much

about security, but I think that if there are more actions to be done,

my government needs to take them and my government needs to keep me

safe and keep everybody else safe. TRANSLATION: Three weeks ago, I felt

I could live in an occupied land. But after I have seen the way they

deal with Arabs, I do not feel I can Previously, I used to believe

in safety and peace. But now I feel as long

as there is an occupation, Every cycle of violence gets more

people desperate That's why I think that violence is

not going to bring any revolution. Coexistence -

this is the real revolutionary act, because this is what here in Israel

and in general in the Middle East, We'll have continuing coverage on

BBC News of what is going on in Sharm El-Sheikh. We are expecting to

hear more from the Government about efforts to bring back stranded

holiday-makers from Sharm El-Sheikh after flights were grounded due to

security concerns. Dennis on e-mail says why would you go to these

rezorses and put your children at risk. No-one can tell where the

terrorists will strike, stay at home. Jamie on Facebook says the

Government's made the right decision for one simple reason, to preserve

and protect lives, to say it's an inconvenience is absolutely

ridiculous, terrorism and attacks don't have a timeline, they are

sporadic. Thank you very much for your company today and for all of

your messages, have a great day, see you tomorrow. Bye-bye.

MUSIC: Boombastic by Shaggy