09/11/2015 Victoria Derbyshire


09/11/2015

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Hello. It's Monday. It's 9.15am. I'm Joanna Gosling.

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A dark day for athletics, claims that senior officials took bribes

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I'm more determined than ever to rebuild in the trust in our sport.

:00:13.:00:28.

It won't be a short journey. What's behind an apparent

:00:29.:00:30.

increase in violence by women? And 50 years ago

:00:31.:00:34.

the UK abolished the death penalty, we'll be speaking to the prison

:00:35.:00:36.

officer who guarded one of the last We're on BBC Two and the

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BBC News Channel until 11am. We'll keep you across

:00:41.:00:54.

the latest breaking and developing A little later we expect to hear

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from the Prime Minister, David Cameron,

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on Britain's future in Europe. Do get in touch with is

:01:05.:01:07.

throughout the morning. Texts will be charged

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at the standard network rate. And, of course, you can watch

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the programme online wherever you are via the BBC News app or

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our website: bbc.co.uk/victoria You can also subscribe to all

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our features on the news app, by going to add topics and

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searching "Victoria Derbyshire". Doping cover-ups,

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extortion and money laundering, all allegations rocking the world

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of athletics this morning. Later today the World Anti-Doping

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Agency will publish a report into all of this with one of its authors

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saying it will expose "a whole Allegations already centre

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on this man Lamine Diack, the former President of world

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Athletics governing body, the IAAF. He's now at the centre of a French

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investigation over claims he took bribes from the Russian athletic

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federation to cover up positive His son and three others have also

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been charged with various alleged breaches of the IAAF's Code

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of Ethics. Lord Coe, the current head of world

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Athletics, has said he's stunned by A great deal of anger and a lot

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of sadness. These are dark days for our sport,

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but I'm more determined than ever It's not going to be

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a short journey. The day after I got elected I

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started a massive review. Understandably in the light

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of the allegations that were made at the beginning of the week, that

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review has been accelerated and I'm determined to rebuild and repair the

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sport with my council colleagues. But this is

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a long road to redemption. Jess at

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our Sports Centre this morning. What are we expected to find out

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today? We are expect to go find out about

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alleged systematic cheating on a scale never seen before. Expecting

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confirmation of widespread doping cover-ups, bribery, money laundering

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and it really doesn't look goed for the sport of athletics at the

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moment. We have been warned by the co-author, Richard McLaren that he

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expects a different scale of corruption, similar, if not worse,

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to the recent allegations levelled at Fifa, football's world governing

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body. This began to gather pace in December last year when a German TV

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documentary allegedly exposed widespread cheating in the sport,

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primarily in Russia where athletes to pay officials to supply them with

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banned substances. Allegedly the IAAF knew about this and covered it

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up. Nothing has been confirmed, but when it is at 2pm, this would be the

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worst crisis in the history of the sport.

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Jess, thank you very much. But if you're a young athlete, what

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impact does these allegations have JJ Jegede is GB Long Jumper

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and Richard Yates is a GB Hurdler. We're also joined by

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Michele Verroken who used to be Thank you all for joining us.

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Michelle, first of all, from what you've heard, are you surprised? Are

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you shocked? Well, in some respects, I'm not surprised. I'm hugely

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disappointed. I mean, the system that was put in place to try and

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protect athletes is in itself apparently being corrupted. It seems

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to be the officials who are very much part of the profiteering from

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this, the athletes themselves are the victims of this need for better

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performances. This desire to be, you nou, number one in the world and

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also the country's own ambitions to be winning medals. So in some

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respects I'm not surprised because that's been the whole nature of

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doping in sport, but I'm it is appointed that des spite years of a

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world anti-doping code, a new system, a lot of investment of

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money, time and particularly athletes efforts in the anti-doping

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system, we are where we are with actually the same problem facing us.

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Until now, concerns have always centred on whether the drugs testing

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regimes are tough enough. Where do these latest allegations take that

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debate? Well, the drug testing regime

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continues to be tough. It is just not tough enough. But also the

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checks and balances that are in the system, the pressures that are put

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on individuals and I know that myself, the pressures that can be

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put on you, not to publish, you want to present information in a

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particular way. Really do in the end take their toll on people and you

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have to say, "Is this right? Are we vieding a good enough system?" I'm

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describing this to people as the ultimate betrayal of trust where

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there is the provision of doping substances. There is the hiding of

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results, and athletes who have tried to compete, drug-free, are saying,

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"What is the point?" And yet really, these are only a minority of people

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doing this. Doing untold damage across all sport.

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doing this. Doing untold damage JJ Michelle was saying ultimate

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betrayal of trust. How do you feel about this? I was so shocked when I

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heard it yesterday. As athletes we sort of know that some might be on

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drugs, you know, we can't believe that everybody has the same moral

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code as we do. But to hear it, that the IAAF have been brabd to stop

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people getting caught, that's bigger than most athletes would have

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thought of. We know maybe an athlete might take it, but our governing

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body, that's a serious betrayal of trust. We thought they were trying

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to back us, but if that's not the case, what hope do we have as a

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sport? They are just allegations at this stage. Are they allegations you

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had ever heard before? No. I wouldn't have thought it would have

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an IAAF problem. I thought it would be, maybe we have heard about

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Russians and their more prone to sometimes be caught for drugs or the

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Eastern European block, but not everybody, but we do hear that the

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Eastern Bloc, you know, maybe are more prone it take drugs. In

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Britain, we have such a thorough doping or thorough testing process.

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Britain, we have such a thorough It is not the same around the whole

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world unfortunately. How does that make you feel when you are competing

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against people and you are not necessarily always confident that it

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is a level playing field? It is tough. You know, it's, as athletes

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all we can do unfortunately control what we do, and our training and

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when you get there and you are beat by a few centimetres by somebody

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that might be on drugs, that's very demoralalising. It is like what's

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the point in actually doing this? But most athletes are driven, so

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they are going to keep going despite what might be happening. Richard,

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how do you feel about all of this? Yeah, obviously, the reports are

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worrying. I think that's mixed with a bit of anger as well because you

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know, you want to have ultimate can have dins in the governing body and

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these reports that are coming out do make you very concerned.

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What do you think the penalties should be? Well, it depends on the

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nature of the doping and what exactly has happened. I know there

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is voices from within the sport where people want to see lifetime

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bans and very, very strict penalties and there is suggestions that Russia

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itself will be expelled from the athletics world temporarily. I don't

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know whether that will happen. We will have to wait and see what the

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contents of the report say. But what we need to see is confidence

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installed within the governing body and I suppose that's down to Seb Coe

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now to take action and you know, he has spoken out in relation to this,

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but actions speak louder than words. Where would you say this has left

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athletics in terms of public perception and also the way other

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athletes feel about it and the governing body? Yeah, as I say, it

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is certainly worrying. I think you can compare it somewhat to how

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cycling was let's say 20 years ago. It is looking as if athletics is

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going done that route. You know, the athletes are obviously very

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concerned just looking at Twitter this morning, there is worrying

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comments. A lot of athletes suffered in this respect having been denied

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their moment on the podium by someone who has subsequently been

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caught cheating and they are never going to get that moment back. The

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athletes themselves can be punished when they are caught, but there are

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things that can't be undone and you know, you can't turn the clock back

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to standing on the podium on first or second place in front of

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thousands of fans and you know, Jamie mentioned this morning that he

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has been denied being a hero for a day due to someone who was

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subsequently caught cheating and although, you know, he gets his

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medal subsequently upgraded, he'll never get that moment unfortunately.

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Could this be a watershed moment for the sport, Michelle? The report is

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out later and it's likely to be extremely hard hitting from

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everything we've heard? Well, I hope so because we've had so

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many water head moments over the years and what is indicated is there

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is not just an International Federation, it is possibly a

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national anti-doping organisation involved, but people have covered up

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something that we have been working hard to address. We have been trying

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to discourage, deter, athletes from the use of doping substances and

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unfortunately, situations like these must make athletes think, "What is

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the point?" And we don't have severe enough sanctions. We know that in

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actual fact it doesn't seem to matter if you take one steroid or

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you take three. You get the same penalty and you can still come back

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and we know there are residual benefits. So something has to be

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done and it is really important that people are allowed to do their job

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in the anti-doping world, but do it fairly. We can't go on persecuting

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the athletes who are only really responding to that desire to win

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medals. What do you say to that JJ? What are

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the pressures on athletes? Athletes, we want to win, yes, but if you have

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a moral code like I would, like I do, there is no point winning if

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you've cheated. What we really need is a uniform banning or a violation,

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if you are banned for drugs, you know, at the moment, it is two years

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and it is just really too late, you know. I got injured in March, I tore

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a ligament and I was out for the whole of the season, I'm coming back

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next month, that would be like a minor drug ban. It has to be a

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minimum of four years so they feel it is a deterrent that if I take

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drugs, I might not actually be able to get back, but currently, two

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years is a little pat on the wrist. We need it to be stronger, four, six

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years and I think that really would start deterring athletes from taking

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drugs. Michelle, why hasn't that happened?

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Well, we understand there have been legal challenges which have

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previously considered a lengthy ban just unacceptable. But I think now

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the mood is really changing. We're seeing this as a corruption activity

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and it is important that sport makes its voice heard on this and the

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athletes have, in this country certainly, have always said they

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believed in a life ban. The vast majority were voting for a life ban,

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but let's sort out the inadvertent doping from those who are

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deliberately cheating and cheating others and sadly the system that we

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have gives us a kind of ten year statutory limitation. It may take

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another ten years to sort out any doping incidents that happened at

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the 2012 Games. So we're talking about a long time for athletes to

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then be recognised for their true performances and to be honest,

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that's far too long. So we need to address that situation right now in

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order to give confidence to athletes who are training today, tomorrow,

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that what they are doing, they can do with confidence that the system

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will protect those who don't cheat. Richard, how much of a shadow does

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all of this cast over athletes who are clean, but who are performing at

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the top of their game, who perhaps feel that people might question how

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they are doing so well? Yeah, I mean, the first thing to say is that

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as an international athlete you want to have confidence that things are

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on a level playing field. You want to have confidence in the system.

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There is a big shad over the sport at the moment and I'm sure it will

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get worse later on today when the report comes out around 2pm. But you

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know, I mean, from my point of view within the sport, you do hear

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stories, you hear suggestions about people who might be doping. You know

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if they suddenly become very good. People will start talking, but until

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that's backed up by plaque and white evidence, you know, you can't really

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suggest that someone is cheating. I think what we want to see is, you

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know, absolute evidence as to you know who has been cheating and see

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what this report says later on, but it is concerning that not only is

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money being taken at the top level, if indeed the allegations are

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correct, but what they're doing is they are effectively changing

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results on the track and in the field by taking these supposed

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bribes which in some ways is more serious than what's recently

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happened at Fifa, in football. Laurence has texted to say, "Lord

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Coe means well, but has no chance of cleaning up the doping cover-ups."

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Derek e-mailed, "Anyone caught taking drugs in athletics should be

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banned for life and the country banned for life. It seems harsh, but

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it is the only way to stop it." Michelle picking up with what

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Richard was saying, do you think this is a bigger scandal than the

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one at Fifa? Potentially it could be, because

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this is about corrupting the system itself, and at various levels the

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sport. We have seen corruption by individuals profiteering, but this

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is actually changing results for everybody. What happened at Fifa did

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not really everybody. What happened at Fifa did

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that what we see in the English everybody. What happened at Fifa did

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Football League. So, actually, it has affected the lives of individual

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athletes, and in some respects it is casting a slur over the London 2012

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Games after everybody thought it was fantastic. But perhaps the wrong

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athletes were here, and that is really concerning, because athletes

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will have worked very hard for that moment. So we have to be realistic

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about what we can now do, here the report, we know the IAAF has got its

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ethics commission working on this, and French prosecutors. We are going

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to go through months of an awful and French prosecutors. We are going

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of daring of souls and bearing of information, and then we have to

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really pieced back together a system that is going to give confidence to

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those athletes to continue to that is going to give confidence to

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compete. Thank you all. Keep your thoughts

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50 years after the death penalty was abolished in the UK,

:17:14.:17:15.

we'll be talking live to the neice of Derek Bentley,

:17:16.:17:20.

where David Cameron is due to speak to business leaders about Europe.

:17:21.:17:30.

Spending cuts of 30% over the next four years,

:17:31.:17:34.

George Osborne reaches a deal with some government departments.

:17:35.:17:43.

Transport, local government, environment and the Treasury

:17:44.:17:45.

they will reduce their budgets by an average of 8% a year.

:17:46.:17:50.

An independent report into alleged corruption in athletics

:17:51.:17:52.

The World Anti-Doping Agency set up an inquiry

:17:53.:18:00.

after it was alleged that Russian officials had accepted bribes

:18:01.:18:02.

to cover-up their athletes' positive drug tests.

:18:03.:18:04.

The new head of world athletics, Sebastian Coe, has acknowledged

:18:05.:18:06.

there will be a long road to redemption for the sport.

:18:07.:18:13.

I am more determined than ever to rebuild the trust in our sport. It

:18:14.:18:17.

is not going to be a short journey. Nine prisons are to be built under

:18:18.:18:20.

new government plans to close Victorian jails and sell them

:18:21.:18:23.

for housing. The reforms are part

:18:24.:18:27.

of the Chancellor's Spending Review He says around 10,000 prisoners will

:18:28.:18:34.

be transferred to new institutions, which will save around ?80 million

:18:35.:18:37.

a year. says it's on course to win 70%

:18:38.:18:43.

of the parliamentary seats Although just a few results

:18:44.:18:46.

have been officially announced, the party's leader,

:18:47.:18:51.

Aung San Suu Kyi, Under the constitution,

:18:52.:18:53.

the military is guaranteed a quarter

:18:54.:18:59.

of all parliamentary seats. And take a look at these pictures

:19:00.:19:02.

from Mississippi. It's a hole that opened up

:19:03.:19:05.

in a car park outside a restaurant - diners described

:19:06.:19:09.

how they were eating their meals when the lights suddenly went out

:19:10.:19:10.

and they heard a loud crash. They rushed out to find their cars

:19:11.:19:14.

swallowed by up the 14m hole. Let's catch up with all the sport

:19:15.:19:29.

and join Jess, and as we have been hearing, dark days for athletics.

:19:30.:19:34.

Yes, it looks as though athletics is facing its worst crisis in its

:19:35.:19:38.

history, we are expecting confirmation of widespread doping,

:19:39.:19:42.

cover-ups, bribery and extortion, and as the current president, Lord

:19:43.:19:47.

Coe has said, these are dark days for the sport, and it faces a long

:19:48.:19:51.

road to redemption. We expect the publication of the report at two

:19:52.:19:56.

o'clock this afternoon. Elsewhere in sport, Danny Kent has

:19:57.:20:01.

become Britain's first Grand Prix motorcycling world champion in 38

:20:02.:20:06.

years. Andy Murray is travelling to the Queen's Club later today. He

:20:07.:20:12.

hopes to prepare for the Davis Cup final against Belgium at the end of

:20:13.:20:17.

the month by practising on clay. And a special guest for you this

:20:18.:20:21.

morning, Joanna, a wrestler will be live with me at ten o'clock. He has

:20:22.:20:26.

been billed as the next superstar of WWE. I admit, I used to watch it as

:20:27.:20:31.

a child, and I have asked the producers for a crash mat. Hopefully

:20:32.:20:36.

we can get a live demo going, turn the BBC Sport Centre into a

:20:37.:20:39.

wrestling ring, I don't know, what you think?

:20:40.:20:41.

50 years ago today, an Act of Parliament abolished

:20:42.:20:43.

It followed a series of high-profile cases in the 1950s. Derek Bentley

:20:44.:20:58.

was just 19 years old when he was hanged for the murder of a policeman

:20:59.:21:04.

during a burglary. In 1998, the Appeal Court quashed his conviction.

:21:05.:21:06.

Our legal correspondent Clive Coleman looks back at some

:21:07.:21:08.

of the cases that led to the end of capital punishment.

:21:09.:21:11.

And he used to laugh, when we used to go in there.

:21:12.:21:18.

He said one day, I don't want to live, my baby's dead now.

:21:19.:21:25.

In 1950, Maureen Westlake's half brother, Timothy Evans, a simple man

:21:26.:21:28.

with learning difficulties, was accused of murdering his wife

:21:29.:21:30.

At his trial at the Old Bailey, he accused the man who lived

:21:31.:21:37.

in the flat below the couple at 10 Rillington Place in Notting Hill,

:21:38.:21:41.

former Special Constable John Christie.

:21:42.:21:42.

Three years after Timothy was convicted and hanged,

:21:43.:21:47.

were discovered in an alcove in Christie's kitchen.

:21:48.:21:53.

He was a serial killer who'd murdered six women,

:21:54.:21:55.

including his own wife, and confessed to killing Beryl.

:21:56.:21:59.

We used to have to see him in the street.

:22:00.:22:03.

Eileen and I used to say we wanted to go up and rip into pieces.

:22:04.:22:09.

But we couldn't do anything or say anything because we couldn't,

:22:10.:22:16.

In 1953, another man with learning difficulties,

:22:17.:22:20.

19-year-old Derek Bentley, was hanged

:22:21.:22:23.

for the murder of a policeman during a bungled burglary.

:22:24.:22:27.

The court was told his accomplice, 16-year-old Christopher Craig,

:22:28.:22:30.

shot the officer, but he was too young to be executed.

:22:31.:22:34.

The case increased public disquiet about the death penalty.

:22:35.:22:37.

Derek Bentley was posthumously pardoned.

:22:38.:22:43.

ARCHIVE: On June the 21st, Ruth Ellis,

:22:44.:22:48.

was found guilty of murder at the Old Bailey...

:22:49.:22:51.

But it was the execution of a glamorous young mother

:22:52.:22:53.

that raised public concern about the death penalty to a new level.

:22:54.:22:58.

Here, still in the walls of this north London pub are

:22:59.:23:01.

bullet holes from the shots fired by Ruth Ellis on Easter Sunday 1955.

:23:02.:23:05.

She'd laid in wait for her lover David Blakely to leave the pub.

:23:06.:23:08.

she fired three more bullets and killed him.

:23:09.:23:18.

Ruth Ellis had extraordinarily powerful personal mitigation.

:23:19.:23:21.

Days before the killing, David Blakely's physical violence towards

:23:22.:23:24.

crowds supporting her massed outside Holloway prison.

:23:25.:23:32.

But what finally led to the abolition of the death penalty?

:23:33.:23:36.

Those notorious cases in the 1950s which created a lot of

:23:37.:23:39.

public disquiet and were regarded as miscarriages of justice.

:23:40.:23:44.

There was a new generation of MPs elected in the '50s who were

:23:45.:23:47.

opposed to capital punishment and there was very active lobbying

:23:48.:23:49.

outside Parliament by campaign groups to end the death penalty.

:23:50.:23:52.

It was those three factors coming together

:23:53.:23:55.

that really led to abolition in 1965.

:23:56.:23:58.

Maureen Westlake understands the emotions

:23:59.:24:00.

of those whose loved ones are murdered,

:24:01.:24:03.

but not putting someone to death by a state executioner.

:24:04.:24:07.

There was a botched attempt to change the law in 1957,

:24:08.:24:17.

but it wasn't until this day in 1965

:24:18.:24:19.

that capital punishment was itself finally laid to rest.

:24:20.:24:24.

have abolished the death penalty for all crime.

:24:25.:24:31.

In 2014, at least 22 counties around the world carried out executions.

:24:32.:24:36.

And in the same year, 2,466 people were sentenced to death worldwide.

:24:37.:24:44.

Let's speak to Julian Knowles QC and barrister,

:24:45.:24:46.

Maria Bentley-Dingwall is the niece of Derek Bentley and a human rights

:24:47.:24:51.

activist, and Robert Douglas is an ex-prison officer of 15 years.

:24:52.:24:54.

In 1963, he guarded the murderer Russell Pascoe,

:24:55.:24:56.

one of the last men to be hanged in this country in Bristol.

:24:57.:25:09.

Maria, first of all, how much did what happened to Derek shape your

:25:10.:25:17.

life? I got into politics, I became a counsellor, and I thought, if

:25:18.:25:22.

no-one else is going to do it, I will do it myself. It was very much,

:25:23.:25:29.

like, watching my grandparents be' agony, that they could not get the

:25:30.:25:33.

courts to reopen it, I thought, this is the only route, so I started as a

:25:34.:25:40.

councillor and worked my way up. So was it something that was always

:25:41.:25:45.

around you? Oh, yeah, especially the BBC, because they done a

:25:46.:25:51.

documentary, they realised we had all the furniture from when Derek

:25:52.:25:55.

was alive, so one of the wagons turned up outside the house, took

:25:56.:25:58.

most of the furniture, it seems normal! If I was playing in the

:25:59.:26:04.

corner of the room and mum and grandad were doing an interview with

:26:05.:26:09.

camera crews, it was everyday life. You said about the fact that your

:26:10.:26:15.

grandparents could not get the courts to revisit, because obviously

:26:16.:26:24.

of the finality of what happened. It wasn't around to show that Derek did

:26:25.:26:30.

not make that statement, that it was a coerced statement, that he did not

:26:31.:26:34.

say those words, because we found a police officer who said that Derek,

:26:35.:26:43.

luck, he said, I was only feet away, but I wasn't allowed to give

:26:44.:26:48.

evidence, I was not stopped but I was coerced, it wouldn't be for the

:26:49.:26:53.

best. What impact does it have on a family like yours when there has

:26:54.:26:58.

been that finality but you are carrying on fighting for a

:26:59.:27:04.

miscarriage of justice? He was ultimately, his conviction for

:27:05.:27:08.

murder was ultimately quashed in 1998, but that was a very long

:27:09.:27:13.

battle. It was a long, long battle. Sadly, my grandparents did not get

:27:14.:27:18.

to see it, my mother died a year previously, and that is the biggest

:27:19.:27:22.

travesty, that they were not there to see their hard work... I was born

:27:23.:27:28.

into it, but they went through it, they sat in their sitting room on

:27:29.:27:33.

the 28th of January, and at nine o'clock that morning they knew that

:27:34.:27:37.

their son has just been murdered. Can you imagine how that must feel?

:27:38.:27:43.

That you cannot do anything? The night before, Mum wanted to go and

:27:44.:27:49.

see Derek, and there is a glass window up, and she just wanted to

:27:50.:27:54.

get a chair and break through it so she could hug her brother for the

:27:55.:27:59.

last time. But you weren't allowed to touch them, in case you were

:28:00.:28:05.

going to do them any harm. That is what I have had all my life, the

:28:06.:28:12.

feelings, but the love too, the love of an uncle I have never had. But I

:28:13.:28:18.

know he loves me and I love him. And you have dedicated your life to what

:28:19.:28:23.

happened. Yes, and also to make sure that other cases around the world

:28:24.:28:30.

too, that we highlight the injustice of the death penalty, because some

:28:31.:28:35.

countries just use it for, you know, because you have stolen something.

:28:36.:28:42.

It is wrong, death is wrong. For a country to be a humanitarian

:28:43.:28:49.

country, you have got to have a legal system that you can be proud

:28:50.:28:53.

of. I want to bring in Robert Douglas, you were speaking about the

:28:54.:28:57.

agonising final moments of Derek's life for your family. Roberts saw it

:28:58.:29:02.

on the other side, in that you were a former prison officer, actually

:29:03.:29:12.

with Russell Pascoe, one of the last meant to be hanged in this country,

:29:13.:29:17.

as he was heading for his execution. What was your perspective? Well, it

:29:18.:29:23.

was part of the job, when you were a prison officer back then. I sat with

:29:24.:29:29.

Russell Pascoe in December 1963, and if you were a prison officer, you

:29:30.:29:33.

knew there was always a chance you may have to sit with somebody for

:29:34.:29:38.

six weeks, which obviously happened to me. And most of the time, when a

:29:39.:29:44.

prisoner comes into the condemned cell, he has his appeal, then he has

:29:45.:29:49.

an appeal to the Home Secretary for clemency, and then the day before,

:29:50.:29:54.

the last thing is an appeal to the Queen. When they come in, they are

:29:55.:29:58.

quite relaxed, they think they have three chances to get off, and only

:29:59.:30:04.

when it gets towards the end does it become really heavy. How did you

:30:05.:30:08.

feel about the death penalty at the time? Did you question it? Well, at

:30:09.:30:13.

the time it was part of life. I must say, I am not just saying it because

:30:14.:30:17.

she is on the show, but even before I became a prison officer, I thought

:30:18.:30:21.

Derek Bentley should never have been hanged. I think the police were so

:30:22.:30:26.

determined to get somebody, they could not get Christopher Craig, so

:30:27.:30:29.

they twisted what Bentley was supposed to have said, let him have

:30:30.:30:35.

it. He was telling him to give him the gun, so they did not get into

:30:36.:30:40.

further trouble. I have great sympathy for the Bentley family.

:30:41.:30:44.

That is very kind of you, and I know the prison officer that looked after

:30:45.:30:49.

Derek, he, you know, he came to us afterwards and spoke to ask, and he

:30:50.:30:52.

looked after Derek, and he wrote his last letter, and he was a really

:30:53.:30:57.

lovely guy. So it helped Derek's last stage tremendously, so that is

:30:58.:31:01.

really kind of you to say that. It is a huge responsibility for the

:31:02.:31:10.

prison guards involved in these cases? It was a case of sitting with

:31:11.:31:15.

them. There were three officers and you were in three pairs. I went down

:31:16.:31:19.

from Birmingham Prison where I was stationed to Bristol and I teamed up

:31:20.:31:25.

with another officer and it was a case a condemned man was never left

:31:26.:31:31.

alone. His co accused was a nasty piece of work, so the officers told

:31:32.:31:45.

us, but Pascal was led astray. We played cards and Monopoly and sat

:31:46.:31:50.

and talked and told jokes and he had his birthday when he was in and I

:31:51.:31:57.

brought him in a cream cake for his birthday. The remaining ten days I

:31:58.:32:05.

would bring him in a cream cake. We got on very well with Pascal, but he

:32:06.:32:14.

had been led astray. What is the legacy for this country having had

:32:15.:32:18.

the death penalty and having it abolished now? Our abolition

:32:19.:32:22.

experience taught us a number of things, first of all that legal

:32:23.:32:27.

systems can go wrong and it is firm policy goal of the UK Government and

:32:28.:32:31.

it has been a for a number of years to work for abolition and the work

:32:32.:32:37.

is bearing fruit, countries are gradually abolishing the death

:32:38.:32:39.

penalty and that's largely as a result of the UK Government and

:32:40.:32:43.

other governments working through the United Nations which encourages

:32:44.:32:46.

countries to look for alternatives to the death penalty. It resulted in

:32:47.:32:50.

the UK Government having this as a firm policy goal which it does

:32:51.:32:54.

actively pursue. Secondly, it affects the way in which the UK's

:32:55.:32:59.

law enforcement agencies work with other overseas agencies in criminal

:33:00.:33:04.

investigations. We are reluctant to help other countries in cases where

:33:05.:33:07.

there maybe a death sentence imposed. All of that is drawn from

:33:08.:33:11.

the lessons that we learned during abolition as I say namely that

:33:12.:33:15.

systems fail. No matter how many protections you have, no matter how

:33:16.:33:24.

many layers of appeal, the system can fail. The system failed and

:33:25.:33:28.

because we've learned those lessons, we're determined to make sure that

:33:29.:33:31.

similar tragedies don't happen around the world. One of the

:33:32.:33:40.

arguments that people cite for the death centre penalty is it is a

:33:41.:33:43.

deterrent? The best work has been done in the United States where

:33:44.:33:49.

sophisticated models have been built up and the General Awe did Office in

:33:50.:33:54.

the United States had an overview of all studies and there is no

:33:55.:33:57.

deterrent effect that can be shown. I agree with that. The work I've

:33:58.:34:02.

been and the prisons I have been into, they are full of murderers. It

:34:03.:34:12.

isn't a der at theant. Deterrent. Rehabilitation is a thing we have to

:34:13.:34:14.

look forward at in all the countries. It does cost more money

:34:15.:34:17.

and the governments say, you know, we haven't got it, but we have to do

:34:18.:34:25.

it. We have to look forward and it has to be down that route. It just

:34:26.:34:30.

fundamentally has no place in a modern, moral legal system. Exactly.

:34:31.:34:34.

Thank you very much. We have to leave our discuss.

:34:35.:34:39.

-- discussion. We're going to go to David Cameron. He is giving a speech

:34:40.:34:42.

right now about Europe to business leaders and we can listen in. Has

:34:43.:34:47.

always spoken truth to power. Someone who I've worked with very

:34:48.:34:51.

close will, your great leader, John Cridland, John, thank you very much.

:34:52.:35:02.

APPLAUSE Let me welcome Caroline, it is great

:35:03.:35:07.

that the Crib is going to tap into strong female leadership, it is

:35:08.:35:10.

about time and a great welcome to her. I'm sure she will do a

:35:11.:35:13.

brilliant job. Can I welcome what you are saying about global

:35:14.:35:17.

ambition? That's right for Britain. Not least in a week when we welcome

:35:18.:35:22.

the Indian Prime Minister, having recently welcomed the Chinese

:35:23.:35:25.

president and John, can I welcome what you say about a scoring Britain

:35:26.:35:31.

as an Aston Villa fan, this is something close to my heart, scoring

:35:32.:35:36.

would be a very good idea! Thinking about what to speak about today, I

:35:37.:35:42.

went back to what I said to you in 2010 when I stao on a stage just

:35:43.:35:47.

like this and I said I wanted the next five years to be amongst the

:35:48.:35:51.

most dynamic and enterprising in Britain's history. Now, I'm not

:35:52.:35:55.

standing here and claiming we have solved all of Britain's economic

:35:56.:35:59.

problems, but we are in an immensely stronger position today than we were

:36:00.:36:04.

five years ago. You can see that in the 900,000 more businesses there

:36:05.:36:07.

are operating in Britain. You can see it in the fact that we employ

:36:08.:36:12.

two million more people. But I also think these have been years where

:36:13.:36:16.

the entrepreneurial spirit has really got going again in Britain.

:36:17.:36:21.

I'm not going to dazzle you with statistics, but it is notable that

:36:22.:36:28.

we've got unicorns, you might think what the hell are unicorns? A

:36:29.:36:33.

unicorn is a start-up business that's already reached ?1 billion in

:36:34.:36:37.

value. Four out of ten unicorns in Europe are based here in Britain,

:36:38.:36:44.

businesses like Just Eat, like asos, you can see it in the fact when

:36:45.:36:50.

compared with 2010, venture capital is investing ten times more in

:36:51.:36:53.

Britain than it did five years ago. You can see it in the fact that in

:36:54.:36:58.

the last five years, 191 new companies have decided to head

:36:59.:37:03.

quarter here in Britain, far more than any other country in Europe.

:37:04.:37:09.

These have been years of enterprise, go to tech city, it is an

:37:10.:37:12.

extraordinary thing that just five years ago, there were 250 businesses

:37:13.:37:17.

in tech city. There are now over 3,000. It is Europe's tech hub. So I

:37:18.:37:23.

think these have been years of enterprise. They are years of dithat

:37:24.:37:28.

meusm, but we have got so much more to do. I want to briefly say where I

:37:29.:37:33.

think we are. Identify what the next challenges for us to tackle together

:37:34.:37:37.

are and then mention two of the biggest challenges, the deficit and

:37:38.:37:41.

Europe and then I'll happily take your questions. And in terms of

:37:42.:37:45.

where we are, we've got this position of a stronger economy, a

:37:46.:37:48.

deficit down by half, the fastest growth in the G7, we have done it

:37:49.:37:52.

through partnership. You were very clear about what you wanted from

:37:53.:37:56.

Government. You wanted lower taxes and we've cut our corporate taxes to

:37:57.:38:02.

the lowest in the G20 and we are heading for an 18% corporation tax.

:38:03.:38:05.

You said you wanted regulation lifted off business. We've taken ?10

:38:06.:38:10.

billion of regulation off business and our rules on regulation, if any

:38:11.:38:14.

minister of mine wants to introduce a regulation, they have to cut two

:38:15.:38:18.

regulations that, I think is working well. You said you wanted planning

:38:19.:38:24.

reformed and we produced thousands of planning guidance with 50 key

:38:25.:38:27.

pages so Britain starts building againment you said you wanted

:38:28.:38:32.

infrastructure prioritised, we haven't solved our infrastructure

:38:33.:38:36.

problems by any manner of moons, but we are about to complete the biggest

:38:37.:38:40.

infrastructure project anywhere in Europe, we have given the green

:38:41.:38:45.

light to HS2 and we have set-up, not just an infrastructure plan, but now

:38:46.:38:50.

a cross party, all party, non political infrastructure commission

:38:51.:38:53.

to make sure we build what we need for our future. Now we haven't

:38:54.:38:57.

managed to achieve all of the things I would like to, but under those key

:38:58.:39:04.

issues, taxes, infrastructure, red tape, planning, skills, in the last

:39:05.:39:08.

Parliament we trained two million apprentices so we are beginning to

:39:09.:39:12.

deal with Britain's skills deficit. I think we have come a long way, but

:39:13.:39:16.

we have come a long way businessed on partnership and I hope that this

:39:17.:39:19.

organisation, under its new leadership, will continue to work

:39:20.:39:23.

with us. We want to be the most business friendly, the most

:39:24.:39:27.

enterprise friendly Government anywhere in Europe. That's the goal.

:39:28.:39:31.

So help us to achieve that. One of the ways we can measure progress is

:39:32.:39:34.

through the international definition of the best place in the world to do

:39:35.:39:40.

business and we've just moved to sixth out of the entire globe. This

:39:41.:39:44.

is the sixth best place anywhere in the world to start and to run a

:39:45.:39:48.

business. So first point, keep working with us to drifr that.

:39:49.:39:52.

Second thing, what do we need to do next? The problems that remain we

:39:53.:39:57.

are still not exporting enough, we still don't have a balanced enough

:39:58.:40:01.

economy, and we've got a particular issue with some of our

:40:02.:40:04.

infrastructure including broadband. So let me say some of the things I

:40:05.:40:08.

think I need to focus on and dare I say t some of the things I hope that

:40:09.:40:13.

you will focus on. And in terms of our focus in Government, you're

:40:14.:40:16.

going to see a real drive to help more of you export. We still have a

:40:17.:40:20.

situation in Britain where about 11% of our companies export, we want to

:40:21.:40:24.

drive that up and you can already see the big advertising campaign,

:40:25.:40:28.

the big promotional campaign to encourage exporting. We still need

:40:29.:40:32.

to do better on skills. And you're going to see from us the funding for

:40:33.:40:36.

three million apprentices in this Parliament. And as said, a big focus

:40:37.:40:42.

for us is going to be broadband. If you're a business, or an individual

:40:43.:40:45.

or a household and you're not connected to broadband, it is like

:40:46.:40:49.

not being connected to the road network or not connected to the

:40:50.:40:52.

electricity network and today I can say what we're going to do next.

:40:53.:40:58.

We're taking this country from 2010, about 45% of homes passed to now 83%

:40:59.:41:04.

of homes passed we're on track to get to 95% of homes passed in 2017,

:41:05.:41:09.

but one of the ways we're going to get to that next step and go beyond

:41:10.:41:14.

it is to treat broadband in the same way that we treat tell fondy and in

:41:15.:41:19.

the same way we treat electricity which is to have a Universal Service

:41:20.:41:21.

Obligation. which is to have a Universal Service

:41:22.:41:28.

with Ofcom about how best to deliver it, but the minimum guarantee of 10

:41:29.:41:33.

with Ofcom about how best to deliver megabits per second that should be

:41:34.:41:35.

with Ofcom about how best to deliver delivered through a universal

:41:36.:41:36.

service guarantee. For us, delivered through a universal

:41:37.:41:39.

on exports, a focus delivered through a universal

:41:40.:41:49.

more balanced than it was, we have seen unemployment fall in every

:41:50.:41:53.

region. We have actually seen exports and manufacturing grow

:41:54.:41:57.

faster outside London and the South East than inside it, but there is

:41:58.:41:58.

much more we can do and I'd really East than inside it, but there is

:41:59.:42:02.

encourage you to work with us with this devolution revolution that's

:42:03.:42:06.

encourage you to work with us with taking place where we where we

:42:07.:42:08.

devolve the uniform business rate to local authorities. This will be one

:42:09.:42:11.

of the biggest changes in the way we run our country in years because in

:42:12.:42:16.

future, the local councils will want to attract your businesses to set-up

:42:17.:42:18.

in their area. Today, to attract your businesses to set-up

:42:19.:42:22.

little interest in doing that. In future f you

:42:23.:42:25.

will keep the money and reconnecting will keep the money and reconnecting

:42:26.:42:34.

very big change. In terms of the things I hope that you

:42:35.:42:38.

very big change. In terms of the and challenges if you like that I've

:42:39.:42:38.

thrown out to are not always easy, let me mention

:42:39.:42:38.

a couple. are not always easy, let me mention

:42:39.:42:45.

the national Living Wage. I know this is a challenge for

:42:46.:42:49.

the national Living Wage. I know it is the right challenge. We have

:42:50.:42:50.

got to move towards an economy where it is the right challenge. We have

:42:51.:42:55.

we have lower taxes, higher pay, it is the right challenge. We have

:42:56.:42:56.

lower welfare. It makes no sense it is the right challenge. We have

:42:57.:42:59.

have an economy where we take money away from people in taxes, give it

:43:00.:43:03.

back to them in ever more complicated benefits. Instead of

:43:04.:43:07.

having an economy where we pay people properly and don't take their

:43:08.:43:10.

money in taxes and encourage enterprise and work.

:43:11.:43:13.

money in taxes and encourage with us on the national Living Wage.

:43:14.:43:17.

Second thing is please work with us on the skills agenda. I know it is

:43:18.:43:21.

going to be a challenge. The apprenticeship levy, but we all know

:43:22.:43:24.

we need a more highly skilled economy. The Government can play its

:43:25.:43:29.

part, not least through school reform and you will hear from Nicky

:43:30.:43:31.

Morgan this afternoon, but we need you to play your part through

:43:32.:43:35.

funding the apprenticeship levy and making sure we are one of the

:43:36.:43:38.

leaders in Europe when it comes to skills and not one of the followers.

:43:39.:43:43.

Let me just mention finally, as I said I would, sorry one more thing

:43:44.:43:49.

I'm asking for you, a bit of a shopping list. One more thing I want

:43:50.:43:53.

to ask you from is to work with us on the agenda of fighting

:43:54.:43:56.

discrimination and promoting equality. Everyone in this room

:43:57.:43:59.

believes in opportunity. Everyone in this room believes you should be

:44:00.:44:04.

able to rise as high as your talents allow you, but we have to admit that

:44:05.:44:09.

for some people that opportunity is blocked because of where they come

:44:10.:44:13.

from or the colour of their skin or the circumstances that they were

:44:14.:44:16.

born into. We need to crack that together. And what I said at the

:44:17.:44:21.

party conference about name blind application which is going to take

:44:22.:44:25.

place in our universities and also take part for instance our Civil

:44:26.:44:28.

Service, please, the more of you that can work with that, I think,

:44:29.:44:33.

the better. We want to build a country where we really access the

:44:34.:44:36.

talent of everybody and no one is held back. Let me finally mention

:44:37.:44:41.

the two, perhaps the two biggest challenges of all that we face in

:44:42.:44:44.

our country in the coming five years. I think we're in a strong

:44:45.:44:48.

position. The economy is growing. Unemployment has been coming dourngs

:44:49.:44:51.

business is thriving, all over the world people can see this is a very

:44:52.:44:55.

enterprising place to come and investment here are the two big

:44:56.:44:58.

challenges we've got to solve. First of all, we haven't finished the work

:44:59.:45:03.

on the deficit. It has come down by half, soon to be down by a third,

:45:04.:45:07.

but we've got to finish the job. Some people, when we look at what

:45:08.:45:11.

we're doing, this say, of course, I understand you've got to live within

:45:12.:45:14.

your means, Ind stand you have to reduce the deficit, but why are you

:45:15.:45:18.

targeting a surplus? Let me tell you briefly why I think it is so

:45:19.:45:23.

important. By 2019, this country would have been growing for nine or

:45:24.:45:27.

ten years and if at the end of nine or ten years growth, you're not

:45:28.:45:32.

putting aside money for a rainy day, you're not paying down your debt to

:45:33.:45:37.

GDP ration yo, then when are you going to do that? To me, one of the

:45:38.:45:40.

most important things that a Government can deliver is long-term

:45:41.:45:44.

economic security and stability. If you wait for a minute, you can

:45:45.:45:55.

have a discussion, rather than interrupting what is a very good

:45:56.:46:00.

conference. , on, guys, if you sit down now, you can ask me a

:46:01.:46:05.

question, rather than making fools of yourselves by standing up and

:46:06.:46:07.

protesting. APPLAUSE

:46:08.:46:16.

Yeah. You have made your point, thank you very much. Well done. Even

:46:17.:46:29.

I can remember that script without any notes! Thanks, guys! Right...

:46:30.:46:40.

The final two points, deficit, on the deficit, it is important we get

:46:41.:46:46.

to a surplus. We need to reduce our debt to GDP ratio so we are strong

:46:47.:46:50.

and secure. Why does it matter so much? I don't stand on a stage like

:46:51.:46:54.

this and tell you I have abolished boom and bust. There may be rainy

:46:55.:47:00.

days and, no-one can tell, and as Prime Minister, as an economy, we

:47:01.:47:04.

should be thinking about how we cope with rainy days, how we give

:47:05.:47:08.

ourselves the capacity to respond with a strong and robust set of

:47:09.:47:12.

public finances. I would say work with us, help us to explain why, in

:47:13.:47:17.

some years, it is important to run a surplus. The final challenge,

:47:18.:47:21.

Europe, and this is going to be a huge question for our country in the

:47:22.:47:25.

year ahead and until we have that referendum. Now, I am not going to

:47:26.:47:29.

lay out all the arguments for you today, not least because I have a

:47:30.:47:33.

very big speech tomorrow, and I don't want to pre-empt myself, as it

:47:34.:47:39.

were. But I just want to say this, first of all, the negotiation I am

:47:40.:47:42.

engaged in, that is really starting with this letter that I am sending

:47:43.:47:49.

Donald Tusk, the council president, tomorrow, I think it is vital for

:47:50.:47:53.

the future of our country. I am not satisfied with the status quo in

:47:54.:47:56.

Europe, and the things I want fixed, whether it is making a more

:47:57.:48:00.

competitive Europe, whether it is making sure we are out of ever

:48:01.:48:04.

closer union, making sure there is proper fan is between those in and

:48:05.:48:07.

out of the eurozone, as John Cridland said. -- fairness. Or

:48:08.:48:13.

whether it is reducing the pressures of immigration, these are big and

:48:14.:48:17.

important changes, and it is vital that we achieve them. Once I have

:48:18.:48:21.

achieved them, if I can achieve them, you will see me campaigning

:48:22.:48:25.

vigorously for Britain to stay in a reformed Europe. If I cannot achieve

:48:26.:48:29.

them, I rule nothing out. Europe needs to change, and I think it is

:48:30.:48:33.

very important we make this argument. And it is a massive

:48:34.:48:38.

challenge for our country, so while I am not starting, not firing the

:48:39.:48:42.

starting gun on the referendum campaign, what I have done in recent

:48:43.:48:47.

weeks is just to debunk some of the daft arguments that people put

:48:48.:48:51.

around. So last week I talked about what I think is a very duff argument

:48:52.:49:00.

put about by the out campaign, which is that it would be easy for Britain

:49:01.:49:04.

to sign up to a deal like Norway. I think that would be a bad idea. If

:49:05.:49:09.

we look at the detail of the deal that Norway has, they pay more per

:49:10.:49:14.

head into the European Union than we do, they take more migration than we

:49:15.:49:18.

do, and yet they don't have a seat at the table to determine what the

:49:19.:49:23.

rules are. So that is a bad deal, so the people who definitely want to

:49:24.:49:27.

leave, they need to come up with a better argument than, let's have a

:49:28.:49:31.

position like Norway. But I also want to debunk an Arquin and that is

:49:32.:49:37.

sometimes but around... We will leave the Prime Minister talking to

:49:38.:49:41.

business leaders at the CBI conference, starting to talk about

:49:42.:49:45.

Europe, saying he is not firing the starting gun on the campaign but

:49:46.:49:48.

starting to flesh out the arguments more. We will be hearing from Norman

:49:49.:49:52.

Smith later, and you can watch the rest of that speech online at the

:49:53.:50:00.

BBC website. Let's get the very latest weather update with Carol

:50:01.:50:07.

Kirkwood, but before that, we want to hear bit more about you, how are

:50:08.:50:11.

you feeling today? Relieved, Strictly was a wonderful

:50:12.:50:15.

experience, such good fun. Let's have a look at some of your best

:50:16.:50:18.

moments, there have been a lot of them!

:50:19.:50:27.

I think Pasha is gorgeous. You are the best. If I could not get the

:50:28.:50:33.

steps, he would say, don't worry, you will get them tomorrow. The

:50:34.:50:39.

judges were mostly encouraging, Joanna. Sometimes they were a bit

:50:40.:50:45.

harsh! It was such good fun, Pasha is patient, a gentleman, he never

:50:46.:50:51.

ever humiliated me in any sense, just lovely, I could not praise

:50:52.:50:57.

highly enough. Such fun. Good for the waistline as well! You were

:50:58.:51:02.

amazing, and the audience loved you. The audience at home were so kind,

:51:03.:51:07.

because it was the audience that kept as in, the scores were not

:51:08.:51:12.

great, but it really was good fun. I guess it is a release of endorphins,

:51:13.:51:17.

all that exercise, good music, just than sing to it, but it is so

:51:18.:51:22.

different. When you are dancing at a party, you just move in time to the

:51:23.:51:27.

music. With this, you think of every single step, get your neck up, chest

:51:28.:51:31.

out, bend one leg, straight in the other, all in one beat, it is harder

:51:32.:51:36.

than it looks. I want to see you at the next BBC party! You and me on

:51:37.:51:42.

that dance floor, it is a date! Lovely to have you back, what can

:51:43.:51:48.

you tell us about the weather? It is a bit unsettled, quite a lot

:51:49.:51:53.

of rain around and also some wind. For the rest of this week, that is

:51:54.:51:57.

roughly what we are looking at, windy conditions at times, rain at

:51:58.:52:02.

times, and it is going to stay mild as well. Now, temperatures have been

:52:03.:52:06.

above average for the time of year, and they will continue to be so,

:52:07.:52:11.

especially tomorrow morning. It is a windy start to the day, and it has

:52:12.:52:16.

been from the word go. Rain across parts of Scotland, Northern Ireland,

:52:17.:52:21.

northern England and Wales, some could lead to localised flooding

:52:22.:52:24.

across West Yorkshire in particular. Gusty winds, gusting up

:52:25.:52:29.

to 50 or 60 mph across central and southern Scotland, the transparent

:52:30.:52:32.

roots, possibly a bit more than that, something to bear in mind if

:52:33.:52:36.

you are travelling, the wind and rain is not a nice one. -- windy

:52:37.:52:50.

along the south coast this afternoon, gusts of up to 40 mph,

:52:51.:52:55.

but for a lot of southern and central and eastern England it is

:52:56.:53:13.

dry. Four. Increasingly the wind will strengthen

:53:14.:53:15.

dry. Four. Increasingly the wind Isles, gusts of up to 60 mph.

:53:16.:53:17.

Through the Isles, gusts of up to 60 mph.

:53:18.:53:21.

strengthen across Northern Ireland, it will bake a little bit, but

:53:22.:53:29.

strengthen across Northern Ireland, night. -- abate.

:53:30.:53:34.

strengthen across Northern Ireland, still high for during the day if we

:53:35.:53:35.

looked still high for during the day if we

:53:36.:53:40.

Tomorrow morning, still windy, for some of us a wet one.

:53:41.:53:41.

Tomorrow morning, still windy, for the rain across Northern Ireland and

:53:42.:53:44.

Scotland. the rain across Northern Ireland and

:53:45.:53:48.

but through the the rain across Northern Ireland and

:53:49.:53:54.

Midlands, in the direction of East Anglia. Look at the temperatures,

:53:55.:53:58.

Midlands, in the direction of East 10-17 Celsius. In fact, parts of

:53:59.:54:03.

south-east Scotland, north-east England and Cheshire could have

:54:04.:54:07.

17-Nadine, way above average. And as we move through Tuesday into

:54:08.:54:10.

Wednesday, the we move through Tuesday into

:54:11.:54:13.

has been producing the rain for the next couple of days will still be

:54:14.:54:15.

with us. You can tell next couple of days will still be

:54:16.:54:18.

squeeze on the isobars that it is also going to be windy, not as windy

:54:19.:54:22.

as today, but nonetheless you will notice it. This is the band of rain,

:54:23.:54:24.

in the north we are notice it. This is the band of rain,

:54:25.:54:27.

showers. South of notice it. This is the band of rain,

:54:28.:54:31.

cloud, temperatures by then Hello, it's Monday,

:54:32.:54:40.

I'm Joanna Gosling, welcome to the programme

:54:41.:54:42.

if you've just joined us. As the world of athletics braces

:54:43.:54:54.

itself for reports of corruption, Richard Yates tells us the claims

:54:55.:55:03.

have shattered his faith in the sport. We thought they were trying

:55:04.:55:07.

to back as, but if that is not the case, then what sort of hope do we

:55:08.:55:14.

have as a sport? All the details and more reaction to the claims.

:55:15.:55:16.

Hundreds of British tourists are still stranded in Sharm el-Sheikh.

:55:17.:55:19.

We'll look at the effort to bring the last of them home.

:55:20.:55:22.

Why are more girls and young women getting involved in violent crime?

:55:23.:55:25.

We'll be joined live by former girl-gang members.

:55:26.:55:40.

The Chancellor has agreed cuts of 30% with four government department

:55:41.:55:46.

as part of the Spending Review aimed at putting the public finances back

:55:47.:55:52.

into surplus by 2020. Transport, local government, environment and

:55:53.:55:54.

the Treasury have told the Chancellor they will reduce their

:55:55.:56:00.

budgets by 8% a year. A report into alleged corruption in athletics is

:56:01.:56:04.

due to be released later today. The World Anti-Doping Agency set up an

:56:05.:56:08.

inquiry after it was alleged that Russian officials had accepted

:56:09.:56:11.

bribes to cover up positive drug tests. The new head of world

:56:12.:56:15.

athletics, Lord Coe, has acknowledged there will be a long

:56:16.:56:19.

road to redemption for the sport. I am more determined than ever to

:56:20.:56:22.

rebuild the trust in our sport. It is not going to be a short journey.

:56:23.:56:31.

Take a look at these incredible pictures from Mississippi.

:56:32.:56:33.

It's a hole that opened up in a car park outside a restaurant.

:56:34.:56:36.

Diners described how they were eating their meals

:56:37.:56:38.

when the lights suddenly went out and they heard a loud crash.

:56:39.:56:41.

They rushed out to find their cars swallowed by up the 14-metre hole.

:56:42.:56:44.

Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Jess.

:56:45.:56:48.

Sport dominated by the doping story today.

:56:49.:56:52.

As you've been discussing this morning, Joanna, the big story today

:56:53.:56:55.

is the report that's to be published later that's expected to confirm

:56:56.:56:59.

allegations of widespread bribery and corruption within athletics.

:57:00.:57:07.

The findings of an independent commission,

:57:08.:57:13.

set up by the World Anti-Doping Agency,

:57:14.:57:14.

are to be published at two o'clock this afternoon.

:57:15.:57:16.

has already said that these are dark days for the sport.

:57:17.:57:21.

Away from that story, the Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp said he felt

:57:22.:57:27.

It was Liverpool's first defeat under their new German manager.

:57:28.:57:30.

Sections of the Anfield support left

:57:31.:57:32.

after Scott Dan's late goal put Palace 2-1 up.

:57:33.:57:35.

Klopp said, I turned around and I felt pretty alone at this moment.

:57:36.:57:39.

in the final of the Paris Masters yesterday by Novak Djokovic.

:57:40.:57:44.

He lost in straight sets to the world number one,

:57:45.:57:46.

but immediately set his sights on this month's Davis Cup final.

:57:47.:57:50.

He'll begin practising on clay today for the match against Belgium

:57:51.:57:53.

And it's Danny, champion of the world.

:57:54.:58:01.

That's Danny Kent, who yesterday became Britain's

:58:02.:58:03.

first Grand Prix motorcycling world champion for 38 years.

:58:04.:58:05.

He won the Moto3 title in Valencia yesterday.

:58:06.:58:09.

The last British world champion was Barry Sheene in 1977.

:58:10.:58:14.

From a British champion to an Irish one.

:58:15.:58:17.

it doesn't get much bigger than the WWE.

:58:18.:58:22.

And British and Irish wrestlers are playing an ever growing part.

:58:23.:58:26.

I'm delighted to say that I'm joined by rising star Finn Balor.

:58:27.:58:31.

You have brought your belt, which is great to see. Title! But you have

:58:32.:58:39.

not brought your costume or make-up, I was expecting to see you dressed

:58:40.:58:45.

up, did you not have time? It is a process, and we really save that for

:58:46.:58:50.

the big show, just as myself today. How does the costume come about? Do

:58:51.:58:55.

you do it yourself? Where does the inspiration come from? The

:58:56.:58:58.

inspiration is that everybody has two sites to their personality, and

:58:59.:59:03.

on one hand my personality is very laid-back and introverted, but I

:59:04.:59:08.

believe everyone can be extroverted, and this costume helps me release

:59:09.:59:13.

that demon. Fantastic to see, you seem quite reserved, but the videos

:59:14.:59:18.

I have seen a view on the internet, anything bad, exuberant,

:59:19.:59:22.

extroverted, how does it take you to get into your persona? Before I go

:59:23.:59:27.

live on TV, I might have green juice, how do you do it? It is

:59:28.:59:31.

something that has been developed over the years, a long time to

:59:32.:59:35.

develop the persona, not something that happens on the spur of the

:59:36.:59:39.

moment. But with regards to preparation on the day, it can take

:59:40.:59:42.

five or six hours to really get warmed up and ready to go. And you

:59:43.:59:48.

are only in the ring for a few minutes? Well, it depends on what

:59:49.:59:52.

show, it could be up to 30 minutes. How did you get started in

:59:53.:59:56.

wrestling? Signing with the WWE must be a big thing for you. Obviously,

:59:57.:00:06.

that was a huge deal, but my wrestling journey started in Kent,

:00:07.:00:08.

England, in a small wrestling gym there. I spent six years training in

:00:09.:00:11.

Kent, somehow found my way to Japan, trained in a Japanese dojo,

:00:12.:00:20.

and then the opportunity to sign with the WWE was an opportunity I

:00:21.:00:23.

could not refuse. You have been billed as the next big superstar. I

:00:24.:00:28.

would be under more pressure if I was not being hailed as the next big

:00:29.:00:33.

superstar. I know it is a lot of responsibility to live up to, but I

:00:34.:00:36.

am ready for the challenge. Thank you so much for joining us, you will

:00:37.:00:41.

be performing in the Manchester Arena tonight. Yes, it is sold out,

:00:42.:00:53.

but still some tickets for tomorrow night, we will be there too. Good

:00:54.:00:56.

luck with that, I hope you bring back another title, good to see you

:00:57.:00:59.

when you have made it in a few years.

:01:00.:01:01.

Thank you for joining us this morning, welcome to the programme.

:01:02.:01:08.

if you've just joined us, we're on BBC Two and the BBC News

:01:09.:01:14.

Doping cover-ups, extortion and money laundering,

:01:15.:01:24.

all allegations rocking the world of athletics this morning.

:01:25.:01:33.

Peter said, "Until athletes are banned, it will never stop." Another

:01:34.:01:45.

viewer says, "Athletes should get the medals on a podium at a later

:01:46.:01:47.

date." Your contributions to this

:01:48.:01:55.

programme and your expertise Texts will be charged

:01:56.:01:57.

at the standard network rate. And of course you can watch

:01:58.:02:00.

the programme online wherever you are via the bbc news app or

:02:01.:02:02.

our website bbc.co.uk/victoria And you can also subscribe to all

:02:03.:02:05.

our features on the news app, by going to add topics

:02:06.:02:08.

and searching Victoria Derbyshire. Doping cover-ups,

:02:09.:02:10.

extortion and money laundering, Later today the World Anti-Doping

:02:11.:02:15.

Agency will publish a report into all of this with one of its authors

:02:16.:02:17.

saying it will expose "a whole Allegations already centre

:02:18.:02:21.

on this man Lamine Diack, the former president of world

:02:22.:02:23.

athletics governing body, the IAAF. He's now at the centre of a French

:02:24.:02:26.

investigation over claims he took bribes from the Russian Athletic

:02:27.:02:30.

Federation to cover up positive His son

:02:31.:02:32.

and three others have been charged with various alleged breaches

:02:33.:02:35.

of the IAAF's code of Ethics. Richard Conway is with me. Richard,

:02:36.:02:46.

how much detail are we expecting in the report later? It will be a

:02:47.:02:49.

substantial report. We heard from the head of the World Anti-Doping

:02:50.:02:53.

Agency. He said it would be a robust report. I think many people will

:02:54.:02:58.

want that. These allegations, are as bad as they can get. These are

:02:59.:03:03.

allegations about the guardians of athletics potentially taking money

:03:04.:03:06.

in order to cover-up doping violations in order that athletes

:03:07.:03:10.

could continue to compete. For fans of the sport, for clean athletes,

:03:11.:03:14.

they will want to see a That a thorough investigation has been

:03:15.:03:16.

done, but then, of course, the question comes to what action will

:03:17.:03:20.

be taken? This report and the people behind it, don't have powers to

:03:21.:03:26.

implement sanctions or to take action, but the IAAF does. The

:03:27.:03:30.

attention will shift to them, to Lord Coe to see how they will get a

:03:31.:03:33.

grip on the crisis and how they are going to tackle the allegations that

:03:34.:03:37.

are essentially a cancer at the heart of the sport.

:03:38.:03:48.

Let's get the thoughts of Roger and Chris. He is laughing, but it is not

:03:49.:04:00.

a laughing matter this. We are awaiting to hear this, in a few

:04:01.:04:05.

hours time, there will be a press conference and this announcement,

:04:06.:04:09.

but if the suspicions are true that the governing body of the sport have

:04:10.:04:12.

been covering up drugs tests and taking money to cover up drugs

:04:13.:04:16.

tests, it changes everything because up until now, you have always

:04:17.:04:19.

thought the governing body is there to not just run the sport, but to

:04:20.:04:21.

protect the innocent athlete. accept that athletes will cheat. We

:04:22.:04:27.

accept that. I have always felt that the

:04:28.:04:30.

accept that. I have always felt that also think you are working

:04:31.:04:32.

accept that. I have always felt that framework and a sport that's

:04:33.:04:34.

protecting the innocent athlete. If it finds out that in the corridors

:04:35.:04:38.

of power, they haven't been doing that, they have been protecting

:04:39.:04:41.

guilty athletes, it is a dark day for athletics. Chris, what are your

:04:42.:04:48.

thoughts? Roger nailed it really. The IAAF and its officers there are

:04:49.:04:52.

to police, protect and promote our sport. It is thought it is a certain

:04:53.:05:00.

bad ap unless certain federations and certain individual athletes that

:05:01.:05:06.

are contravening the law, the right that right at the very top, right at

:05:07.:05:10.

core, you have got people who are cheating and enabling people to

:05:11.:05:12.

cheat and it doesn't bear thinking cheating and enabling people to

:05:13.:05:14.

about. You then ask how cheating and enabling people to

:05:15.:05:23.

go? You will say, if a king is corrupt, the nation perishes, does

:05:24.:05:28.

this percolate? Nobody on his or her own can actually lead the

:05:29.:05:32.

corruption. They need to have people in the right places. That's a really

:05:33.:05:37.

scary thought because as I have said, you thought it was a few loose

:05:38.:05:41.

cannons before, but if it is really this deep and this far, we are all

:05:42.:05:44.

in trouble. Roger, what's the way to tackle

:05:45.:05:49.

this? There is one man who has to tackle that and that's the new

:05:50.:05:55.

president, Sebastian Coe, he is coming in to a sport that's at its

:05:56.:05:59.

lowest point. He has got an opportunity to be very firm and to

:06:00.:06:04.

be very strong. There is the case, is the deterrent strong enough to

:06:05.:06:08.

stop people cheating? It is one thing stopping individuals and

:06:09.:06:11.

another thing stopping federations. If there is a federation that

:06:12.:06:14.

appears to have a lot of drug cheating going on, then you should

:06:15.:06:19.

ban that federation or those and the Lieths from the World Athletic

:06:20.:06:22.

Championships, I don't think he will do that, but it will be on the table

:06:23.:06:25.

for discussion. Do you think he should do that? You need to look at

:06:26.:06:29.

changing the culture, that's a pretty big step to take. Why not?

:06:30.:06:33.

You are penalising everybody for a few. We need to see the details as

:06:34.:06:37.

they come out. Then there is the whole point, a the moment, it is a

:06:38.:06:40.

four year drugs ban and you can come back and have another chance. Seb

:06:41.:06:46.

Coe said he is for life bans, but he can't see it through because the

:06:47.:06:49.

legal profession will challenge that and the sport will lose. You will

:06:50.:06:56.

see Coe taking strong action. He has been vice president of the

:06:57.:06:59.

federation for the last few years and a lot of people are questioning

:07:00.:07:04.

him. That's understandable, but unfair, because he claims he knew

:07:05.:07:08.

nothing about this. I believe him. This has taken him by surprise.

:07:09.:07:11.

Where there allegations swirling around? No, there was allegations

:07:12.:07:17.

and suspicions about drug taking by athletes and maybe federations he is

:07:18.:07:23.

saying and I believe him that no one thought there was corruption going

:07:24.:07:27.

on within the corridors of power and the sport. Chris, what measures do

:07:28.:07:32.

you think would change things going forward? I think, cometh the name,

:07:33.:07:41.

cometh the hour, Lord Coe needs to lead by example. One of the

:07:42.:07:45.

challenges that we have is that sport at this top level is big

:07:46.:07:51.

business. Lots of money. I do think it will be tough, but I think Lord

:07:52.:07:57.

Coe would need to will being at some of the ambassadory position that is

:07:58.:08:03.

he has got with big businesses that are linked to the sport. And you

:08:04.:08:09.

know, and re-think whether it looks good being there to police and

:08:10.:08:18.

protect while, it is a tough one, while being linked to promoting

:08:19.:08:22.

themselves? You can really see how there is this, it is not virtuous,

:08:23.:08:27.

but there is this unhealthy thing where you have got sponsors and

:08:28.:08:32.

athletes and federations federations all trying to promote themselves and

:08:33.:08:36.

get ahead of the sport. Lord Coe needs to be seen to cut himself away

:08:37.:08:41.

from that and really have this, you know, I'm at the top of the sport,

:08:42.:08:47.

I'm going to sort it out. I think he is the right person. I think he is

:08:48.:08:52.

charismatic, but also he has been in politics long enough to know the

:08:53.:08:57.

game. I do think it is sad news if this has been going on and Lord Coe

:08:58.:09:01.

has been the vice president and he had no inkling. That will be a

:09:02.:09:05.

little bit alarming too because you would think that, you know, you

:09:06.:09:09.

would think that if you are that close to the corridors of power, you

:09:10.:09:13.

have an inkling, it doesn't mean you would think it is right or you can't

:09:14.:09:19.

say something unless you have got some proof. If you would think if he

:09:20.:09:25.

was that close he would have an inkling, otherwise, what's going on

:09:26.:09:30.

up there? He is clear. He said he hadn't heard anything until the

:09:31.:09:33.

start of the week and he certainly believes everyone else in the sport

:09:34.:09:38.

is in the same boaten that. He will speak on behalf of a lot of people

:09:39.:09:42.

involved in athletics who have the deep frustration that one of the

:09:43.:09:45.

thereins is all happening is that athletics more than any other sport

:09:46.:09:48.

has invested time and money and effort to drug test as many people.

:09:49.:09:52.

In our way, we were tested, but not like they are now. A lot of sports

:09:53.:09:56.

don't bother because of course, the more athletes the you test, the

:09:57.:09:59.

greater chance of catching the odd one. If you catch one, it is front

:10:00.:10:06.

page news. We have had Mo Farah and Paula Radcliffe dragged into the

:10:07.:10:12.

situation. Is he off? We will carry on without you!

:10:13.:10:20.

Thank you, Chris. Thank you. He a prior engagement.

:10:21.:10:24.

That's what is happening. The sport has invested so much time and money

:10:25.:10:27.

and effort into trying to clean itself up and of course, by doing

:10:28.:10:31.

that, you discover things that are happening and I think that was OK

:10:32.:10:35.

when it was catching athletes cheating, but why this is such a big

:10:36.:10:39.

deal, I don't think anyone really thought that some of those athletes

:10:40.:10:43.

have been helped by the people who run the sport and I think it's,

:10:44.:10:46.

there will be a lot of questions that Seb Coe will ask a lot of

:10:47.:10:51.

people, but he will ask himself now, but as Chris said, maybe we are

:10:52.:10:55.

biassed, but we think he is the right man at the right time and he

:10:56.:10:58.

is someone who won't be scared to make big decisions now and I think

:10:59.:11:03.

we will see him putting through big policies because you have to get the

:11:04.:11:06.

trust of the public for a sport to be accepted again and I think this

:11:07.:11:09.

is an all-time low for athletics. Thanks, Roger. Let us know what you

:11:10.:11:12.

think about that. Hundreds more British tourists are

:11:13.:11:17.

expected to be flown home from Sharm el-Sheikh today, following the

:11:18.:11:19.

Russian plane crash nine days ago. Thomson Airways has confirmed

:11:20.:11:22.

in the past hour it will have four flights departing from the Egyptian

:11:23.:11:25.

resort today. The Foreign Secretary warned that

:11:26.:11:33.

airport security around the world may have to be overhauled as a

:11:34.:11:34.

result. Someone put something in their

:11:35.:11:38.

suitcase to see if they'd actually Yes, there where two or three

:11:39.:11:41.

people on board, apparently no The lady that was sat next to us

:11:42.:11:45.

said well, I've got two lighters and they didn't check that and they

:11:46.:11:50.

didn't go through any of this. So they've stepped up security

:11:51.:11:53.

for 50% but not the other one, so what's the point in doing it

:11:54.:11:56.

for anyone if you're not going to do To get onto our plane,

:11:57.:11:59.

there were two queues. One side was doing bag checks,

:12:00.:12:03.

the other side didn't check Didn't feel particularly safe,

:12:04.:12:06.

did you? We went through security with the

:12:07.:12:12.

bags, obviously lost our luggage, Got through and then we saw one

:12:13.:12:17.

of the cleaners just walk straight through with two massive bottles

:12:18.:12:23.

of water. Completely unchallenged and

:12:24.:12:26.

after that point we were both Lets get the latest with

:12:27.:12:29.

our correspondent Sally Nabil How long are the delays that

:12:30.:12:46.

holiday-makers are facing? It might take a few more day to say

:12:47.:12:52.

repatriate all the British holiday-makers back home. The

:12:53.:12:54.

numbers of flight have been few compared to the number of

:12:55.:13:00.

passengers. The Sharm el-Sheikh Airport is a small one. It can't

:13:01.:13:05.

take all the flights at one go. The hold luggage will be kept at the

:13:06.:13:08.

airport until arrangements are made to deliver them back to the UK. The

:13:09.:13:12.

fact that the repatriation process is going slower than expected has

:13:13.:13:16.

frustrated some of the passengers. We have spoken to people. They told

:13:17.:13:20.

me their plans have been disrupted and others are running out of money

:13:21.:13:24.

and they were hoping to get back home as soon as possible, but

:13:25.:13:29.

according to the airport authorities, arrangements and

:13:30.:13:31.

co-ordination is going on between the Egyptian side and the British

:13:32.:13:34.

one so they can bring all the tourists back home as soon as

:13:35.:13:37.

possible. On the other hand, the fact that many of the British

:13:38.:13:40.

tourists are leaving in addition to the Russians, of course, is a major

:13:41.:13:44.

blow to the tourism industry in Egypt. The Government started a

:13:45.:13:49.

promotional campaign on the local media and on social media addressing

:13:50.:13:52.

Egyptians who are living abroad to come and spend their holidays here

:13:53.:13:57.

in Egypt because the country is in bad need of foreign currency and it

:13:58.:14:01.

mainly depends on tourism for that. What is being done in terms of

:14:02.:14:06.

making sure that security is improved for the Sharm el-Sheikh

:14:07.:14:10.

long-term at? Tighter security measures have been put in place

:14:11.:14:15.

actually since British aviation experts arrived at the airport three

:14:16.:14:19.

or four days ago. We could see long queues of people waiting to check-in

:14:20.:14:23.

because the security checks are taking much longer than before.

:14:24.:14:28.

Tourists are being personally searched. The baggage are being

:14:29.:14:31.

scanned. I have spoken to the tourists and they told me when they

:14:32.:14:35.

first arrived two or three weeks ago, the picture was totally

:14:36.:14:38.

different. They described the security measures at that time as

:14:39.:14:42.

being messy and chaotic and now, despite the fact that they are

:14:43.:14:46.

taking a longer time to check-in, some of them told me this makes them

:14:47.:14:49.

feel safer. Thanks for joining us today,

:14:50.:14:56.

still to come before 11am: Former girl-gang members tell us why

:14:57.:14:58.

more young women seem to be getting involved in violent crime. And David

:14:59.:15:01.

Cameron tells business leaders he And David Cameron tells business

:15:02.:15:07.

leaders he will fight for a better The Chancellor has agreed cuts.

:15:08.:15:25.

Transport, Local Government, environment and the Treasury have

:15:26.:15:30.

told the Chancellor they will reduce their budgets by 8% a year.

:15:31.:15:34.

An independent report into alleged corruption in athletics is due to be

:15:35.:15:39.

released later today. The World Anti-Doping Agency set-up an inquiry

:15:40.:15:42.

after it was alleged that Russian officials accepted bribes to

:15:43.:15:45.

cover-up their athletes positive drug tests. The new head of world

:15:46.:15:48.

athletics Lord Coe, acknowledged that there will be a long road to

:15:49.:15:55.

redemption for the sport. I am more determined than ever to rebuild the

:15:56.:15:59.

trust in our sport. It is not going to be a short journey.

:16:00.:16:04.

The Prime Minister, David Cameron, has been speaking to a conference of

:16:05.:16:08.

UK business leaders, urging them to consider whether Britain would be

:16:09.:16:13.

more successful inside or outside the EU. In a letter to the European

:16:14.:16:17.

Council president Judy be published tomorrow, he will outline his

:16:18.:16:22.

demands for changes to the EU. -- due to be. I am not satisfied with

:16:23.:16:27.

the status quo, and the things I want fixed, whether making sure we

:16:28.:16:32.

are more competitive, out of a closer union, making sure there is

:16:33.:16:36.

proper fairness for people out of the eurozone, as John Cridland said

:16:37.:16:41.

a moment ago, or reducing the pressures we face through

:16:42.:16:43.

immigration, these are big and important changes, and I think it is

:16:44.:16:48.

vital we achieve them. Nine prisons are to be built under new government

:16:49.:16:53.

plans to close Victorian jails and sell them for housing. 10,000

:16:54.:16:57.

prisoners will be transferred to the new institutions, 3000 new homes

:16:58.:17:02.

will be built on old urban sites. Ministers say the plans will save

:17:03.:17:04.

?80 million a year. The Ministers say the plans will save

:17:05.:17:08.

opposition party in Myanmar, thereby and a sushi, says it is on course to

:17:09.:17:13.

win 70% of Parliamentary seat in the elections. -- led by Aung San Suu

:17:14.:17:21.

Kyi. Under the constitution, the military is guaranteed a quarter of

:17:22.:17:25.

all Parliamentary seats. Some incredible pictures from

:17:26.:17:29.

Mississippi, a whole that opened up in a car park outside a restaurant.

:17:30.:17:33.

Diners were eating their meals in a car park outside a restaurant.

:17:34.:17:36.

they heard a loud crash, they rushed in a car park outside a restaurant.

:17:37.:17:38.

out to find their cars swallowed up by that enormous hole. Luckily

:17:39.:17:43.

no-one was injured. Let's catch up with all

:17:44.:17:46.

the sport now and join Jess. The Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp

:17:47.:17:48.

said he felt all alone as his side lost at home to

:17:49.:17:51.

Crystal Palace yesterday. It was Liverpool's first defeat

:17:52.:17:53.

under their new German manager. Sections of the Anfield support

:17:54.:17:56.

left after Scott Dan's late goal

:17:57.:17:58.

put Palace 2-1 up. in the final of the Paris Masters

:17:59.:18:02.

yesterday by Novak Djokovic. He lost in straight sets to the

:18:03.:18:06.

world number one but immediately set his sights

:18:07.:18:08.

on this month's Davis Cup final. He'll begin practising on clay

:18:09.:18:11.

today for the match against Belgium That's Danny Kent who yesterday

:18:12.:18:14.

became Britain's first Grand Prix motorcycling world champion

:18:15.:18:21.

for 38 years. He won the Moto3 title in Valencia

:18:22.:18:22.

yesterday. The last British world champion

:18:23.:18:24.

was Barry Sheene in 1977 And we await what could be the worst

:18:25.:18:42.

crisis ever to hit athletics, a report into corruption and doping in

:18:43.:18:47.

the sport will be published at two o'clock by Wada. Further details of

:18:48.:18:51.

that across the BBC News Channel as we have them. That is all the sport

:18:52.:18:52.

for now. The Prime Minister has told business

:18:53.:18:55.

leaders that the big argument with Europe isn't whether Britain

:18:56.:18:58.

can survive outside Europe The Prime Minister was heckled

:18:59.:19:00.

by a member of the audience Norman Smith is at the CBI

:19:01.:19:15.

conference for ask, did he come up with much detail, Norman? Well,

:19:16.:19:20.

Joanna, welcome to the press room in the bowels of this hotel where the

:19:21.:19:24.

CBI conferences taking place. I thought it was quite a significant

:19:25.:19:28.

speech, because the language we heard from Mr Cameron, saying he was

:19:29.:19:32.

deadly serious about maybe leaving the EU, I am not bluffing, do not

:19:33.:19:38.

doubt my resolve, I think DC was this - most people in politics

:19:39.:19:42.

think, at the end of day, Mr Cameron will probably say, OK, I have done

:19:43.:19:47.

the best deal I can, we ought to stay in the EU. In other words, they

:19:48.:19:52.

are not entirely sure he is really serious about pulling out of Europe.

:19:53.:19:56.

Today he wanted to knock that on the head, because if you have got that

:19:57.:20:00.

kind of approach, basically, it is difficult to get anything out of EU

:20:01.:20:04.

countries, because difficult to get anything out of EU

:20:05.:20:10.

do not have to give him that much. I think he wants to send a message

:20:11.:20:15.

saying, do not doubt my determination, if you do not give me

:20:16.:20:19.

what I want, yes, I will pull out. There was no compromise on the sort

:20:20.:20:23.

of demand he was seeking, saying, for example, that they would require

:20:24.:20:28.

some sort of treaty change, changes would have to be irreversible,

:20:29.:20:33.

legally binding. Again, he said he wanted to get that four-year ban on

:20:34.:20:38.

EU migrants being able to claim benefits in the UK, and you just got

:20:39.:20:42.

the sense that he was today toughening up his line, and the sort

:20:43.:20:46.

of posture he strikes ahead of that letter he's going to send out to the

:20:47.:20:52.

EU presidents tomorrow, Donald Tusk. Interesting too, there was a protest

:20:53.:20:57.

in the middle of the speech, actually, by a couple of people, a

:20:58.:21:03.

mini protest, a couple of people, I think we can see them here, saying

:21:04.:21:09.

CBI is the voice of Brussels. Now, apparently, that was from some group

:21:10.:21:15.

called Students For Britain, I have not heard of them, but obviously

:21:16.:21:20.

they want us to leave the EU. I guess that is because there is a

:21:21.:21:24.

perception that the CBI, by and large, is in the pro EU camp. A lot

:21:25.:21:30.

of unhappiness about it among the boat stopped leave groups, saying

:21:31.:21:33.

that CBI is representing business opinion. -- the vote to leave

:21:34.:21:42.

groups. Mr Cameron is trying to fire a warning shot across the boughs of

:21:43.:21:47.

leaders who think he is not serious that Britain could leave the EU.

:21:48.:21:52.

For many, it's seen as the gateway to Europe.

:21:53.:21:54.

Every day the Greek island of Lesbos is seeing thousands of migrants

:21:55.:21:57.

and refugees land on its shores as they try to seek a better life.

:21:58.:22:01.

A major international conference is being held in Malta this week

:22:02.:22:03.

to discuss ways of dealing with the problem.

:22:04.:22:05.

Volunteers from around the world have now stepped in

:22:06.:22:07.

to provide much of the basic help the refugees and migrants need.

:22:08.:22:10.

The BBC spent the day filming a volunteer working

:22:11.:22:12.

for a dutch medical charity, the Boat Refugee Foundation.

:22:13.:22:34.

So we are coming close to one of our landmarks, which is a burned-out

:22:35.:22:41.

car. It is a car that burned-out a couple of weeks ago, that is how we

:22:42.:22:45.

operate. When we go on the dirt road, we will contact each other and

:22:46.:22:51.

referred to these landmarks, like the burned-out car, where boats are

:22:52.:23:00.

arriving at those spots. A boat right there.

:23:01.:23:09.

Come on, very good, very good. All right, watch out! I am just checking

:23:10.:23:29.

if, especially the case, if everyone is all right, there are no kids

:23:30.:23:33.

trampled or anything, just to have a first look to see if

:23:34.:23:35.

trampled or anything, just to have a right on the boat. You can

:23:36.:23:45.

translate. OK, you are doing good, you are doing great. This man had an

:23:46.:23:52.

impairment with his legs. That is something pre-existing, I just

:23:53.:23:55.

wanted to know if, other than that, he is OK. Can I do the bandage? I

:23:56.:24:03.

want to take and off and do it again. Can you turn a little bit?

:24:04.:24:12.

The child had been in the water for more than an hour, so we started CPR

:24:13.:24:19.

right away, unfortunately we lost the child on the docks, in the

:24:20.:24:23.

harbour. The second child we were able to get somewhat of a pulse, so

:24:24.:24:28.

that child was being transported in the ambulance but unfortunately

:24:29.:24:33.

died. That must devious guard. Well, yeah, they small children, yes, four

:24:34.:24:39.

or five years old. -- that must leave you scarred. We are heading

:24:40.:24:46.

back to base camp to Eftalou, to the medical post. We are going to see

:24:47.:24:51.

what is going on there, see if there is people that need our help that

:24:52.:24:59.

cannot be covered... A lot of people are now being transported back to

:25:00.:25:02.

the base camp, and we have a medical team which is trying to figure out

:25:03.:25:11.

if we can help them in anyway. This was a woman from Iran who just came

:25:12.:25:16.

off the boat, apparently she was on the bus somewhere with some Afghan

:25:17.:25:20.

men who wanted to throw her off, that is what she told us. There was

:25:21.:25:27.

some distress, which resulted in palpitations and hyperventilation,

:25:28.:25:31.

dizziness. Her blood sugar was somewhat low, so we provided some

:25:32.:25:35.

extra sugar to try and increase that. But these, obviously, are the

:25:36.:25:43.

cases that we get, because of all the trauma that they have gone

:25:44.:25:46.

through with their travels. She has been travelling for two months now.

:25:47.:25:56.

So we need a lot more volunteers, a lot more physicians to cope,

:25:57.:26:02.

nurses, just to cope with the amount of refugees coming here during the

:26:03.:26:06.

winter months, because that is what the estimation is. With the weather

:26:07.:26:10.

changing, it is very important that we are Paul Davies ulcers of people

:26:11.:26:16.

ready to go with that. -- that we have all the resources

:26:17.:26:20.

and people to go with that. From women who beat their

:26:21.:26:23.

boyfriends, to drunken brawlers, to girl gangs, a rising number

:26:24.:26:25.

of women are involved in violence. Last month video posted online

:26:26.:26:28.

showed girls fighting at a brawl in East London with more than 200

:26:29.:26:30.

teenagers gathered to watch. In Belfast, a fight between two

:26:31.:26:33.

girls was organised on social media and became a spectator event

:26:34.:26:36.

for the city's teenagers. It contradicts the portrayal

:26:37.:26:38.

of girls involved in gang life who, over the years, have often been

:26:39.:26:40.

described as victims, forced to hide weapons

:26:41.:26:43.

and carry drugs. With one in five of all violent

:26:44.:26:44.

crimes and a third of domestic violence incidents

:26:45.:26:47.

reported to the England and Wales Crime Survey involving

:26:48.:26:49.

a female perpetrator, are some young women choosing

:26:50.:26:51.

more violent lifestyles? That's the theme of a BBC Three

:26:52.:26:53.

documentary tonight. They spoke

:26:54.:26:57.

to two former girl gangers Then next year,

:26:58.:26:59.

everybody is on knives, and then next year,

:27:00.:27:18.

everybody is on guns and then the next year,

:27:19.:27:20.

little kids have Tasers. They can electrocute you,

:27:21.:27:22.

and you will be knocked out, and then in that little time you're

:27:23.:27:27.

sleeping you could be slapped. You could be taken away.

:27:28.:27:30.

You don't know. Of course, you're going to

:27:31.:27:32.

have to carry a weapon, like. What everyone needs to understand

:27:33.:27:36.

as well is that everyone has soldiers behind them,

:27:37.:27:39.

so don't ever think when they're having an argument with one person

:27:40.:27:41.

that it's only that one person. You're having an arguement

:27:42.:27:44.

with the whole crew. They describe one fight

:27:45.:27:46.

between rival gangs where people were left

:27:47.:27:51.

with life-changing injuries. Someone getting hammered

:27:52.:27:55.

in the head. I think that was

:27:56.:27:57.

the most serious one. Her head was just moving a lot,

:27:58.:27:59.

and from nowhere, she got hit with the hammer, so I'm

:28:00.:28:02.

assuming she was giving it the mouth and the attitude that didn't need

:28:03.:28:05.

to be brought to the scene, and then she just got hammered.

:28:06.:28:10.

Did they deserve a hammering? They didn't deserve a hammer,

:28:11.:28:13.

but they had weapons. So the way I look at it,

:28:14.:28:18.

if we didn't go with no weapons obviously, we went with a bit of

:28:19.:28:22.

weapons, but right if we didn't go with no weapons or take weapons from

:28:23.:28:25.

them, we would have been the victims No, do you know

:28:26.:28:28.

why I don't think of them? Because obviously I apologise

:28:29.:28:35.

for what happened to them, but why I don't think of them is because

:28:36.:28:38.

I had to go to jail for them... No, you had to go to jail

:28:39.:28:42.

because of what you did. Of what I did, fair enough,

:28:43.:28:45.

but like I don't know yeah, I don't want to sound rude like,

:28:46.:28:52.

but that's this is... why I'm patching my words

:28:53.:28:55.

because they started it. They got hurt and we went to jail.

:28:56.:29:00.

But why did you start it? This is what I mean?

:29:01.:29:04.

It makes us look bad again. who used to be the leader

:29:05.:29:06.

of a girl gang in London. Cherie Johnson turned her back

:29:07.:29:11.

on crime and now runs Shared Intense Support, which helps

:29:12.:29:13.

young women escape gangs. And Nadine Woodley also works

:29:14.:29:20.

with young women Tracey, you described yourself as

:29:21.:29:34.

the baddest girl in Brixton. OK, people took it the wrong way, I

:29:35.:29:39.

didn't mean like I was the most naughty, most of violent person and

:29:40.:29:43.

no-one could mess with me. I used to do a lot of crimes that boys did,

:29:44.:29:48.

no-one could mess with me. I used to and girls were not doing that at the

:29:49.:29:48.

time. Why did you get into and girls were not doing that at the

:29:49.:29:54.

had a really bad childhood, I believe that children are

:29:55.:29:57.

by-products of their environment, and mine was out of sync, my mother

:29:58.:30:01.

was a manic depressive, my father was convicted on a life term for

:30:02.:30:05.

rape, all sorts went on in was convicted on a life term for

:30:06.:30:12.

house. So you had no guidance. Well, even though Mum wasn't well, not

:30:13.:30:16.

mentally well, she tried to keep me in hand. She didn't leave me to just

:30:17.:30:20.

do what I want, I used to get the odd slap and whatnot, she did try.

:30:21.:30:26.

So did you effectively choose this lifestyle? It is still

:30:27.:30:29.

So did you effectively choose this that shocks, in spite of the

:30:30.:30:32.

statistics we were talking about, women and

:30:33.:30:42.

statistics we were talking about, a shock element when women do it,

:30:43.:30:44.

the question of whether they are actively choosing a violent

:30:45.:30:45.

lifestyle. actively choosing a violent

:30:46.:30:45.

you, I did actively choosing a violent

:30:46.:30:51.

from what was happening at home. Me committing crime

:30:52.:30:53.

from what was happening at home. Me that I thrived on, and it may be

:30:54.:30:56.

made me forget that I thrived on, and it may be

:30:57.:30:58.

was 15, I was young, but I loved I had a warped mentality. Where

:30:59.:31:01.

frightened of you? How I had a warped mentality. Where

:31:02.:31:20.

would you have drawn the line in terms of what you would have done? I

:31:21.:31:28.

haven't killed anyone. I am not a murderer, I don't have anyone's

:31:29.:31:33.

blood on my hands, but my mind was warped. What sort of things did

:31:34.:31:37.

blood on my hands, but my mind was do? The stabbed my sister. How old

:31:38.:31:47.

were you? How old was she? She is nine years younger than me. When

:31:48.:31:51.

people ask me in interviews because I have done interviews before,

:31:52.:31:52.

people ask me in interviews because remorseful? I'm like if only you

:31:53.:32:00.

knew. The people closest to me are the people I harmed. I have to live

:32:01.:32:03.

with that every day. It is hard. the people I harmed. I have to live

:32:04.:32:15.

I was a good manipulator. I was fully aware of what I was getting

:32:16.:32:20.

myself involved in and I thrived off the power that came with it. When

:32:21.:32:24.

you say you were a good manipulator, tell us what you mean? I could

:32:25.:32:30.

easily install fear into people, I could coerce people into doing

:32:31.:32:34.

things I wanted them to do. I was good at delegating and generally

:32:35.:32:37.

organising stuff that had to be organised. You sound like a criminal

:32:38.:32:45.

mastermind? Is that how you saw it? Not really. I was just adapt to go

:32:46.:32:50.

my environment. So I have always been raised around a lot of male

:32:51.:32:56.

family members or friends and I noticed they had that trait. They

:32:57.:32:59.

were always good at delegating and leading and manipulating so I

:33:00.:33:02.

learned that quite early and use that had to um power myself as

:33:03.:33:06.

opposed to at the time becoming a victim. So what sort of things did

:33:07.:33:12.

you do? Or did you tell others to do?

:33:13.:33:18.

Some of the things you don't want it speak about because it is so

:33:19.:33:22.

embarrassing. I am a mum now. Some of the things I wish I hadn't done,

:33:23.:33:28.

but it could be stuff as organising big drug deals, making sure cash was

:33:29.:33:34.

delivered. Mabelinging sure that those in the hierarchy weren't in

:33:35.:33:37.

the limelight, having peoplen a lower standard doing the work and

:33:38.:33:43.

making sure that my team and those high up are safe and not in the

:33:44.:33:47.

limelight. When you say it is embarrassing? Well, it is

:33:48.:33:51.

embarrassing when you look back at your behaviour as a teenager and now

:33:52.:33:54.

you have got more understanding, you have gone into the world and you

:33:55.:33:57.

have seen things and you might have children, you might be exposed to

:33:58.:34:01.

education, etcetera, it gives you a different perception on what's right

:34:02.:34:04.

and what's wrong. As well as knowing what's right and what's wrong

:34:05.:34:10.

because your parents install that in you in from I don't think, it is

:34:11.:34:13.

just embarrassing talking about the things you did when you are young

:34:14.:34:17.

because you don't want to be paint with that brush anymore. None of

:34:18.:34:23.

those skills will help me to empower myself now. It is embarrassing. When

:34:24.:34:27.

did your perception of what you were doing change? You always know. No

:34:28.:34:31.

matter what background you're from, your parents always teach you right

:34:32.:34:36.

from wrong irrespective of what they are going through. You are always

:34:37.:34:40.

aware, but for me, the big wake-up call was when I was 18, when I was

:34:41.:34:44.

in a relationship and my daughter had come along, for me, that was

:34:45.:34:48.

just the breaking point. It was no more. It was non negotiatable

:34:49.:34:54.

irrespective of what I would lose, it was non negotiatable. How long

:34:55.:34:59.

had you been doing the sort of things you were involved in? My

:35:00.:35:04.

family were billion known. It has always been there. It is not a

:35:05.:35:09.

matter of making the switch, it is just identifying the correct path at

:35:10.:35:13.

the right timement you come to a point in your life and it is like,

:35:14.:35:21.

"Do I carry on this way or carry on as a normal civilian?" That hit me

:35:22.:35:26.

at 18 and it was time to change. What's your perception of women

:35:27.:35:30.

choosing a violent lifestyle, is it a choice? Well, part of it is a

:35:31.:35:35.

choice in the sense of like these two ladies said, you know, I know

:35:36.:35:39.

what it is that I'm doing when I go out there or when I'm hitting

:35:40.:35:42.

another person. However, I just think that a lot of young people are

:35:43.:35:46.

exposed to a lot of different things out there these days and what we

:35:47.:35:49.

have to remember, what these two ladies said they were young at the

:35:50.:35:56.

time and what you are influenced around at that age, your brain has

:35:57.:35:59.

not matured to a point for you to be making the right decisions. In the

:36:00.:36:03.

line of work we do, we have to have supervision where you understand the

:36:04.:36:06.

work you're actually doing and scientifically our brain is not

:36:07.:36:09.

fully developed until we are about 25 to make the right decisions.

:36:10.:36:14.

While we are expecting 15-year-olds, 14-year-olds to know what they are

:36:15.:36:16.

doing when they are seeing violence on the TV every single day, they are

:36:17.:36:20.

seeing it on their estates, you know, when I was younger, hearing of

:36:21.:36:25.

people dying was more elderly people. You knew someone's grandma

:36:26.:36:32.

died. Now, I work with young people and they tell me their friend has

:36:33.:36:35.

been stabbed and they are coming to school and having to suppress the

:36:36.:36:40.

feelings. Underneath any form of anger is hurt, whether it is a male

:36:41.:36:44.

or a female and it is about understanding what the core issues

:36:45.:36:47.

underneath that are affecting young people. The clip we saw, the young

:36:48.:36:51.

girls, they are living in fear. That's why they went to that

:36:52.:36:54.

situation with weapons because they are living in fear. We have got

:36:55.:36:57.

young people that have never moved outside the area or crossed the

:36:58.:37:00.

street because in their mind, something is going to happen to

:37:01.:37:03.

them. So therefore, what they are trying to do is take the situations

:37:04.:37:07.

in their own hands before they then get attacked. Now, with young

:37:08.:37:13.

female, I'd say, women are like onions, there is lots of layers to

:37:14.:37:19.

us and basically, we are emotional creatures anyway. We have our

:37:20.:37:23.

growing pains. We have our monthly cycle and on top of that, you have

:37:24.:37:27.

got how you're trying to fit in the world, you have got social media and

:37:28.:37:30.

all the other stuff on top and as women, you know, we're fighting to

:37:31.:37:35.

get paid the same, we're fighting to get noticed the same or in terms of

:37:36.:37:42.

image. When you look at young people, that's a lot of stuff on

:37:43.:37:45.

their brain that they're having to deal with at a young age and they

:37:46.:37:49.

are having to grow up a lot quicker and that's causing them to agent

:37:50.:37:52.

outment I didn't go out on to the streets and get involved in crime,

:37:53.:37:56.

but I was an extremely angry teenager and if someone said

:37:57.:38:01.

something to me it wouldn't take me two minute to say punch them in the

:38:02.:38:08.

face. They don't punch. If someone steps into your personal space and

:38:09.:38:13.

as the youngsters call it, they feel violated, if someone puts their hand

:38:14.:38:18.

on you your natural reaction to is to hit back. For some, it is a

:38:19.:38:25.

natural reaction. Some people go home and self-harm, some people

:38:26.:38:30.

bully others, some people lash out at their parents. Self-harm is not

:38:31.:38:35.

an option. I did try self-harm one time, no joy. The amount of girls,

:38:36.:38:41.

young people, at this, sorry, in this age, that are self-harming is

:38:42.:38:47.

massive. Whereas once upon a time you had young girls self-harming and

:38:48.:38:51.

you didn't know, you could go to school and their tops would be like

:38:52.:38:54.

this and you could see it. How can they be going to school and people

:38:55.:38:59.

can see they are self-harming? What happened to that energy? I worked

:39:00.:39:03.

with young girls at 11 they said they might have been sexually abused

:39:04.:39:07.

at home and the school is wondering why at 16 they have turned into a

:39:08.:39:11.

monster, but all we are concerned with they are not following Ofsted

:39:12.:39:19.

or behaving right in school. That gets transferred on to the streets,

:39:20.:39:23.

you get an opportunity to lash out. What might have made things

:39:24.:39:26.

different for either of you, do you think? Where do we start? The first

:39:27.:39:32.

one, I guess, so coming from my organisation's prospective is having

:39:33.:39:36.

the resources to reach out to these women because these women are hidden

:39:37.:39:40.

to the untrained eye, but to our eyes, they stand out from a far. We

:39:41.:39:44.

can identify them from afar. First of all, it is having the resources

:39:45.:39:47.

because it is all good us being here, being able to deliver and

:39:48.:39:51.

lead, but without the correct resources, we can't access the women

:39:52.:39:55.

and deliver the support. What sort of things can you do for a young

:39:56.:39:59.

girl who is fooling the emotion that is we are hearing about and growing

:40:00.:40:02.

up in a tough environment and feeling the need to protect

:40:03.:40:05.

themselves and that seems to be the only way? Can you take someone like,

:40:06.:40:13.

short of taking someone out of the environment, what can be done? You

:40:14.:40:16.

have got to change their perception of themselves and the environment

:40:17.:40:19.

that they are in and you have got to empower them and try and give them

:40:20.:40:24.

options to make educated decisions. So if I talk with a young person, I

:40:25.:40:28.

say to them, you know, I'm not going to say, "No, don't do that." I will

:40:29.:40:32.

say, "This is the consequence of that." This is the outcome of that.

:40:33.:40:39.

Do you want this as your outcome? That's what no one is telling them.

:40:40.:40:43.

Young kids are more likely to take on board what you say if you have

:40:44.:40:51.

had that lifestyle. People like us, they take us in. We speak from the

:40:52.:40:55.

heart. They understand. When you are a teenager, your emotions are

:40:56.:40:59.

heightened. Falling out with your best friend is massive. 24 hours not

:41:00.:41:04.

talking to your friend and with girls in groups, if we were in a

:41:05.:41:09.

group and we went to a girl's school and you weren't speaking to me and

:41:10.:41:13.

you made these two not speak to me, that's a long week. That's silently

:41:14.:41:17.

violent because no one is speaking to me for the whole entire week.

:41:18.:41:22.

Next week, I need to get my friends back. So I'm going to aggress you so

:41:23.:41:25.

these come on back. So I'm going to aggress you so

:41:26.:41:35.

mixing with. How difficult is that? I don't think

:41:36.:41:35.

all. Do you have to have a completely new set of people...

:41:36.:41:40.

all. Do you have to have a have got to fight from within.

:41:41.:41:46.

You're born have got to fight from within.

:41:47.:41:46.

reason. Kids do know what they are have got to fight from within.

:41:47.:41:52.

doing. Did you do it yourself or did someone sort of... You do it

:41:53.:41:57.

yourself. For me, it was doing it yourself. Me personally, it is about

:41:58.:42:06.

resocialising. I resocialised my whole entire friends. The thing

:42:07.:42:09.

resocialising. I resocialised my about reformed, it doesn't just

:42:10.:42:09.

happen, and it stops, it is an about reformed, it doesn't just

:42:10.:42:14.

going process, sometimes it might be a life process, there are trigger

:42:15.:42:16.

factors. There might be a life process, there are trigger

:42:17.:42:19.

we are used to that can set things off. It is about changing

:42:20.:42:22.

we are used to that can set things social network and re-positioning

:42:23.:42:25.

yourself with positive people. If we were to meet a few years

:42:26.:42:27.

yourself with positive people. If we would not abpositive relationship.

:42:28.:42:30.

Now, we can align ourselves and deliver something really powerful.

:42:31.:42:36.

We were from two rival boroughs, but we come with a different purpose and

:42:37.:42:39.

because of our strong leadership qualities we can drive force a big

:42:40.:42:45.

message. When you think about girl gangs and things, do they know what

:42:46.:42:49.

they are really fighting about? Do they know what's behind what they

:42:50.:42:53.

are trying to keep up and carry on? Even boys. Do you understand why the

:42:54.:42:58.

whole postcode rivalry came from? Thank you for coming in. Thank you

:42:59.:43:01.

thoughts with us. The Home Office thoughts with us. The Home Office

:43:02.:43:05.

told us that they are taking action thoughts with us. The Home Office

:43:06.:43:14.

a network of over 80 experts with experience of dealing with gangs and

:43:15.:43:19.

drug dealing and they are providing ?1.6 million of funding for 13 young

:43:20.:43:25.

drug dealing and they are providing support to women and girls. You can

:43:26.:43:27.

watch the special documentary looking at the rise of female

:43:28.:43:35.

9pm. Thank you for your company today and

:43:36.:43:36.

for your messages. Tomorrow, we Thank you for your company today and

:43:37.:43:38.

be hearing from the woman who Thank you for your company today and

:43:39.:43:45.

exposed a bogus landlord by inviting him on a date.

:43:46.:43:48.

We will see you tomorrow. Have a lovely day. Bye-bye.

:43:49.:44:02.

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