Browse content similar to 09/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello. It's Monday. It's 9.15am. I'm Joanna Gosling. | :00:07. | :00:07. | |
A dark day for athletics, claims that senior officials took bribes | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
I'm more determined than ever to rebuild in the trust in our sport. | :00:13. | :00:28. | |
It won't be a short journey. What's behind an apparent | :00:29. | :00:30. | |
increase in violence by women? And 50 years ago | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
the UK abolished the death penalty, we'll be speaking to the prison | :00:35. | :00:36. | |
officer who guarded one of the last We're on BBC Two and the | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
BBC News Channel until 11am. We'll keep you across | :00:41. | :00:54. | |
the latest breaking and developing A little later we expect to hear | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
from the Prime Minister, David Cameron, | :00:57. | :01:04. | |
on Britain's future in Europe. Do get in touch with is | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
throughout the morning. Texts will be charged | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
at the standard network rate. And, of course, you can watch | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
the programme online wherever you are via the BBC News app or | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
our website: bbc.co.uk/victoria You can also subscribe to all | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
our features on the news app, by going to add topics and | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
searching "Victoria Derbyshire". Doping cover-ups, | :01:22. | :01:29. | |
extortion and money laundering, all allegations rocking the world | :01:30. | :01:31. | |
of athletics this morning. Later today the World Anti-Doping | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
Agency will publish a report into all of this with one of its authors | :01:37. | :01:38. | |
saying it will expose "a whole Allegations already centre | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
on this man Lamine Diack, the former President of world | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
Athletics governing body, the IAAF. He's now at the centre of a French | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
investigation over claims he took bribes from the Russian athletic | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
federation to cover up positive His son and three others have also | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
been charged with various alleged breaches of the IAAF's Code | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
of Ethics. Lord Coe, the current head of world | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
Athletics, has said he's stunned by A great deal of anger and a lot | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
of sadness. These are dark days for our sport, | :02:11. | :02:18. | |
but I'm more determined than ever It's not going to be | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
a short journey. The day after I got elected I | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
started a massive review. Understandably in the light | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
of the allegations that were made at the beginning of the week, that | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
review has been accelerated and I'm determined to rebuild and repair the | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
sport with my council colleagues. But this is | :02:39. | :02:40. | |
a long road to redemption. Jess at | :02:41. | :02:50. | |
our Sports Centre this morning. What are we expected to find out | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
today? We are expect to go find out about | :02:55. | :03:04. | |
alleged systematic cheating on a scale never seen before. Expecting | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
confirmation of widespread doping cover-ups, bribery, money laundering | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
and it really doesn't look goed for the sport of athletics at the | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
moment. We have been warned by the co-author, Richard McLaren that he | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
expects a different scale of corruption, similar, if not worse, | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
to the recent allegations levelled at Fifa, football's world governing | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
body. This began to gather pace in December last year when a German TV | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
documentary allegedly exposed widespread cheating in the sport, | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
primarily in Russia where athletes to pay officials to supply them with | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
banned substances. Allegedly the IAAF knew about this and covered it | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
up. Nothing has been confirmed, but when it is at 2pm, this would be the | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
worst crisis in the history of the sport. | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
Jess, thank you very much. But if you're a young athlete, what | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
impact does these allegations have JJ Jegede is GB Long Jumper | :04:04. | :04:05. | |
and Richard Yates is a GB Hurdler. We're also joined by | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
Michele Verroken who used to be Thank you all for joining us. | :04:11. | :04:21. | |
Michelle, first of all, from what you've heard, are you surprised? Are | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
you shocked? Well, in some respects, I'm not surprised. I'm hugely | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
disappointed. I mean, the system that was put in place to try and | :04:31. | :04:37. | |
protect athletes is in itself apparently being corrupted. It seems | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
to be the officials who are very much part of the profiteering from | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
this, the athletes themselves are the victims of this need for better | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
performances. This desire to be, you nou, number one in the world and | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
also the country's own ambitions to be winning medals. So in some | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
respects I'm not surprised because that's been the whole nature of | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
doping in sport, but I'm it is appointed that des spite years of a | :05:10. | :05:16. | |
world anti-doping code, a new system, a lot of investment of | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
money, time and particularly athletes efforts in the anti-doping | :05:21. | :05:22. | |
system, we are where we are with actually the same problem facing us. | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
Until now, concerns have always centred on whether the drugs testing | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
regimes are tough enough. Where do these latest allegations take that | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
debate? Well, the drug testing regime | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
continues to be tough. It is just not tough enough. But also the | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
checks and balances that are in the system, the pressures that are put | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
on individuals and I know that myself, the pressures that can be | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
put on you, not to publish, you want to present information in a | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
particular way. Really do in the end take their toll on people and you | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
have to say, "Is this right? Are we vieding a good enough system?" I'm | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
describing this to people as the ultimate betrayal of trust where | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
there is the provision of doping substances. There is the hiding of | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
results, and athletes who have tried to compete, drug-free, are saying, | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
"What is the point?" And yet really, these are only a minority of people | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
doing this. Doing untold damage across all sport. | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
doing this. Doing untold damage JJ Michelle was saying ultimate | :06:30. | :06:31. | |
betrayal of trust. How do you feel about this? I was so shocked when I | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
heard it yesterday. As athletes we sort of know that some might be on | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
drugs, you know, we can't believe that everybody has the same moral | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
code as we do. But to hear it, that the IAAF have been brabd to stop | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
people getting caught, that's bigger than most athletes would have | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
thought of. We know maybe an athlete might take it, but our governing | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
body, that's a serious betrayal of trust. We thought they were trying | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
to back us, but if that's not the case, what hope do we have as a | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
sport? They are just allegations at this stage. Are they allegations you | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
had ever heard before? No. I wouldn't have thought it would have | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
an IAAF problem. I thought it would be, maybe we have heard about | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
Russians and their more prone to sometimes be caught for drugs or the | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
Eastern European block, but not everybody, but we do hear that the | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
Eastern Bloc, you know, maybe are more prone it take drugs. In | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
Britain, we have such a thorough doping or thorough testing process. | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
Britain, we have such a thorough It is not the same around the whole | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
world unfortunately. How does that make you feel when you are competing | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
against people and you are not necessarily always confident that it | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
is a level playing field? It is tough. You know, it's, as athletes | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
all we can do unfortunately control what we do, and our training and | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
when you get there and you are beat by a few centimetres by somebody | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
that might be on drugs, that's very demoralalising. It is like what's | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
the point in actually doing this? But most athletes are driven, so | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
they are going to keep going despite what might be happening. Richard, | :08:13. | :08:19. | |
how do you feel about all of this? Yeah, obviously, the reports are | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
worrying. I think that's mixed with a bit of anger as well because you | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
know, you want to have ultimate can have dins in the governing body and | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
these reports that are coming out do make you very concerned. | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
What do you think the penalties should be? Well, it depends on the | :08:36. | :08:43. | |
nature of the doping and what exactly has happened. I know there | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
is voices from within the sport where people want to see lifetime | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
bans and very, very strict penalties and there is suggestions that Russia | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
itself will be expelled from the athletics world temporarily. I don't | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
know whether that will happen. We will have to wait and see what the | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
contents of the report say. But what we need to see is confidence | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
installed within the governing body and I suppose that's down to Seb Coe | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
now to take action and you know, he has spoken out in relation to this, | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
but actions speak louder than words. Where would you say this has left | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
athletics in terms of public perception and also the way other | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
athletes feel about it and the governing body? Yeah, as I say, it | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
is certainly worrying. I think you can compare it somewhat to how | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
cycling was let's say 20 years ago. It is looking as if athletics is | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
going done that route. You know, the athletes are obviously very | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
concerned just looking at Twitter this morning, there is worrying | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
comments. A lot of athletes suffered in this respect having been denied | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
their moment on the podium by someone who has subsequently been | :09:56. | :09:57. | |
caught cheating and they are never going to get that moment back. The | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
athletes themselves can be punished when they are caught, but there are | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
things that can't be undone and you know, you can't turn the clock back | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
to standing on the podium on first or second place in front of | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
thousands of fans and you know, Jamie mentioned this morning that he | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
has been denied being a hero for a day due to someone who was | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
subsequently caught cheating and although, you know, he gets his | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
medal subsequently upgraded, he'll never get that moment unfortunately. | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
Could this be a watershed moment for the sport, Michelle? The report is | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
out later and it's likely to be extremely hard hitting from | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
everything we've heard? Well, I hope so because we've had so | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
many water head moments over the years and what is indicated is there | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
is not just an International Federation, it is possibly a | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
national anti-doping organisation involved, but people have covered up | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
something that we have been working hard to address. We have been trying | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
to discourage, deter, athletes from the use of doping substances and | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
unfortunately, situations like these must make athletes think, "What is | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
the point?" And we don't have severe enough sanctions. We know that in | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
actual fact it doesn't seem to matter if you take one steroid or | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
you take three. You get the same penalty and you can still come back | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
and we know there are residual benefits. So something has to be | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
done and it is really important that people are allowed to do their job | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
in the anti-doping world, but do it fairly. We can't go on persecuting | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
the athletes who are only really responding to that desire to win | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
medals. What do you say to that JJ? What are | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
the pressures on athletes? Athletes, we want to win, yes, but if you have | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
a moral code like I would, like I do, there is no point winning if | :11:55. | :12:01. | |
you've cheated. What we really need is a uniform banning or a violation, | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
if you are banned for drugs, you know, at the moment, it is two years | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
and it is just really too late, you know. I got injured in March, I tore | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
a ligament and I was out for the whole of the season, I'm coming back | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
next month, that would be like a minor drug ban. It has to be a | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
minimum of four years so they feel it is a deterrent that if I take | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
drugs, I might not actually be able to get back, but currently, two | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
years is a little pat on the wrist. We need it to be stronger, four, six | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
years and I think that really would start deterring athletes from taking | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
drugs. Michelle, why hasn't that happened? | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
Well, we understand there have been legal challenges which have | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
previously considered a lengthy ban just unacceptable. But I think now | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
the mood is really changing. We're seeing this as a corruption activity | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
and it is important that sport makes its voice heard on this and the | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
athletes have, in this country certainly, have always said they | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
believed in a life ban. The vast majority were voting for a life ban, | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
but let's sort out the inadvertent doping from those who are | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
deliberately cheating and cheating others and sadly the system that we | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
have gives us a kind of ten year statutory limitation. It may take | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
another ten years to sort out any doping incidents that happened at | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
the 2012 Games. So we're talking about a long time for athletes to | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
then be recognised for their true performances and to be honest, | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
that's far too long. So we need to address that situation right now in | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
order to give confidence to athletes who are training today, tomorrow, | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
that what they are doing, they can do with confidence that the system | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
will protect those who don't cheat. Richard, how much of a shadow does | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
all of this cast over athletes who are clean, but who are performing at | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
the top of their game, who perhaps feel that people might question how | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
they are doing so well? Yeah, I mean, the first thing to say is that | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
as an international athlete you want to have confidence that things are | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
on a level playing field. You want to have confidence in the system. | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
There is a big shad over the sport at the moment and I'm sure it will | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
get worse later on today when the report comes out around 2pm. But you | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
know, I mean, from my point of view within the sport, you do hear | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
stories, you hear suggestions about people who might be doping. You know | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
if they suddenly become very good. People will start talking, but until | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
that's backed up by plaque and white evidence, you know, you can't really | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
suggest that someone is cheating. I think what we want to see is, you | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
know, absolute evidence as to you know who has been cheating and see | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
what this report says later on, but it is concerning that not only is | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
money being taken at the top level, if indeed the allegations are | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
correct, but what they're doing is they are effectively changing | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
results on the track and in the field by taking these supposed | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
bribes which in some ways is more serious than what's recently | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
happened at Fifa, in football. Laurence has texted to say, "Lord | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
Coe means well, but has no chance of cleaning up the doping cover-ups." | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
Derek e-mailed, "Anyone caught taking drugs in athletics should be | :15:34. | :15:36. | |
banned for life and the country banned for life. It seems harsh, but | :15:37. | :15:43. | |
it is the only way to stop it." Michelle picking up with what | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
Richard was saying, do you think this is a bigger scandal than the | :15:47. | :15:47. | |
one at Fifa? Potentially it could be, because | :15:48. | :15:57. | |
this is about corrupting the system itself, and at various levels the | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
sport. We have seen corruption by individuals profiteering, but this | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
is actually changing results for everybody. What happened at Fifa did | :16:07. | :16:07. | |
not really everybody. What happened at Fifa did | :16:08. | :16:13. | |
that what we see in the English everybody. What happened at Fifa did | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
Football League. So, actually, it has affected the lives of individual | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
athletes, and in some respects it is casting a slur over the London 2012 | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
Games after everybody thought it was fantastic. But perhaps the wrong | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
athletes were here, and that is really concerning, because athletes | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
will have worked very hard for that moment. So we have to be realistic | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
about what we can now do, here the report, we know the IAAF has got its | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
ethics commission working on this, and French prosecutors. We are going | :16:48. | :16:48. | |
to go through months of an awful and French prosecutors. We are going | :16:49. | :16:55. | |
of daring of souls and bearing of information, and then we have to | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
really pieced back together a system that is going to give confidence to | :17:00. | :17:00. | |
those athletes to continue to that is going to give confidence to | :17:01. | :17:08. | |
compete. Thank you all. Keep your thoughts | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
50 years after the death penalty was abolished in the UK, | :17:14. | :17:15. | |
we'll be talking live to the neice of Derek Bentley, | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
where David Cameron is due to speak to business leaders about Europe. | :17:21. | :17:30. | |
Spending cuts of 30% over the next four years, | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
George Osborne reaches a deal with some government departments. | :17:35. | :17:43. | |
Transport, local government, environment and the Treasury | :17:44. | :17:45. | |
they will reduce their budgets by an average of 8% a year. | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
An independent report into alleged corruption in athletics | :17:51. | :17:52. | |
The World Anti-Doping Agency set up an inquiry | :17:53. | :18:00. | |
after it was alleged that Russian officials had accepted bribes | :18:01. | :18:02. | |
to cover-up their athletes' positive drug tests. | :18:03. | :18:04. | |
The new head of world athletics, Sebastian Coe, has acknowledged | :18:05. | :18:06. | |
there will be a long road to redemption for the sport. | :18:07. | :18:13. | |
I am more determined than ever to rebuild the trust in our sport. It | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
is not going to be a short journey. Nine prisons are to be built under | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
new government plans to close Victorian jails and sell them | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
for housing. The reforms are part | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
of the Chancellor's Spending Review He says around 10,000 prisoners will | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
be transferred to new institutions, which will save around ?80 million | :18:35. | :18:37. | |
a year. says it's on course to win 70% | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
of the parliamentary seats Although just a few results | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
have been officially announced, the party's leader, | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
Aung San Suu Kyi, Under the constitution, | :18:52. | :18:53. | |
the military is guaranteed a quarter | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
of all parliamentary seats. And take a look at these pictures | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
from Mississippi. It's a hole that opened up | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
in a car park outside a restaurant - diners described | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
how they were eating their meals when the lights suddenly went out | :19:10. | :19:10. | |
and they heard a loud crash. They rushed out to find their cars | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
swallowed by up the 14m hole. Let's catch up with all the sport | :19:15. | :19:29. | |
and join Jess, and as we have been hearing, dark days for athletics. | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
Yes, it looks as though athletics is facing its worst crisis in its | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
history, we are expecting confirmation of widespread doping, | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
cover-ups, bribery and extortion, and as the current president, Lord | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
Coe has said, these are dark days for the sport, and it faces a long | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
road to redemption. We expect the publication of the report at two | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
o'clock this afternoon. Elsewhere in sport, Danny Kent has | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
become Britain's first Grand Prix motorcycling world champion in 38 | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
years. Andy Murray is travelling to the Queen's Club later today. He | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
hopes to prepare for the Davis Cup final against Belgium at the end of | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
the month by practising on clay. And a special guest for you this | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
morning, Joanna, a wrestler will be live with me at ten o'clock. He has | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
been billed as the next superstar of WWE. I admit, I used to watch it as | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
a child, and I have asked the producers for a crash mat. Hopefully | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
we can get a live demo going, turn the BBC Sport Centre into a | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
wrestling ring, I don't know, what you think? | :20:40. | :20:41. | |
50 years ago today, an Act of Parliament abolished | :20:42. | :20:43. | |
It followed a series of high-profile cases in the 1950s. Derek Bentley | :20:44. | :20:58. | |
was just 19 years old when he was hanged for the murder of a policeman | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
during a burglary. In 1998, the Appeal Court quashed his conviction. | :21:05. | :21:06. | |
Our legal correspondent Clive Coleman looks back at some | :21:07. | :21:08. | |
of the cases that led to the end of capital punishment. | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
And he used to laugh, when we used to go in there. | :21:12. | :21:18. | |
He said one day, I don't want to live, my baby's dead now. | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
In 1950, Maureen Westlake's half brother, Timothy Evans, a simple man | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
with learning difficulties, was accused of murdering his wife | :21:29. | :21:30. | |
At his trial at the Old Bailey, he accused the man who lived | :21:31. | :21:37. | |
in the flat below the couple at 10 Rillington Place in Notting Hill, | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
former Special Constable John Christie. | :21:42. | :21:42. | |
Three years after Timothy was convicted and hanged, | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
were discovered in an alcove in Christie's kitchen. | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
He was a serial killer who'd murdered six women, | :21:54. | :21:55. | |
including his own wife, and confessed to killing Beryl. | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
We used to have to see him in the street. | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
Eileen and I used to say we wanted to go up and rip into pieces. | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
But we couldn't do anything or say anything because we couldn't, | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
In 1953, another man with learning difficulties, | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
19-year-old Derek Bentley, was hanged | :22:21. | :22:23. | |
for the murder of a policeman during a bungled burglary. | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
The court was told his accomplice, 16-year-old Christopher Craig, | :22:28. | :22:30. | |
shot the officer, but he was too young to be executed. | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
The case increased public disquiet about the death penalty. | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
Derek Bentley was posthumously pardoned. | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
ARCHIVE: On June the 21st, Ruth Ellis, | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
was found guilty of murder at the Old Bailey... | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
But it was the execution of a glamorous young mother | :22:52. | :22:53. | |
that raised public concern about the death penalty to a new level. | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
Here, still in the walls of this north London pub are | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
bullet holes from the shots fired by Ruth Ellis on Easter Sunday 1955. | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
She'd laid in wait for her lover David Blakely to leave the pub. | :23:06. | :23:08. | |
she fired three more bullets and killed him. | :23:09. | :23:18. | |
Ruth Ellis had extraordinarily powerful personal mitigation. | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
Days before the killing, David Blakely's physical violence towards | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
crowds supporting her massed outside Holloway prison. | :23:25. | :23:32. | |
But what finally led to the abolition of the death penalty? | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
Those notorious cases in the 1950s which created a lot of | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
public disquiet and were regarded as miscarriages of justice. | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
There was a new generation of MPs elected in the '50s who were | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
opposed to capital punishment and there was very active lobbying | :23:48. | :23:49. | |
outside Parliament by campaign groups to end the death penalty. | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
It was those three factors coming together | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
that really led to abolition in 1965. | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
Maureen Westlake understands the emotions | :23:59. | :24:00. | |
of those whose loved ones are murdered, | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
but not putting someone to death by a state executioner. | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
There was a botched attempt to change the law in 1957, | :24:08. | :24:17. | |
but it wasn't until this day in 1965 | :24:18. | :24:19. | |
that capital punishment was itself finally laid to rest. | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
have abolished the death penalty for all crime. | :24:25. | :24:31. | |
In 2014, at least 22 counties around the world carried out executions. | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
And in the same year, 2,466 people were sentenced to death worldwide. | :24:37. | :24:44. | |
Let's speak to Julian Knowles QC and barrister, | :24:45. | :24:46. | |
Maria Bentley-Dingwall is the niece of Derek Bentley and a human rights | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
activist, and Robert Douglas is an ex-prison officer of 15 years. | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
In 1963, he guarded the murderer Russell Pascoe, | :24:55. | :24:56. | |
one of the last men to be hanged in this country in Bristol. | :24:57. | :25:09. | |
Maria, first of all, how much did what happened to Derek shape your | :25:10. | :25:17. | |
life? I got into politics, I became a counsellor, and I thought, if | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
no-one else is going to do it, I will do it myself. It was very much, | :25:23. | :25:29. | |
like, watching my grandparents be' agony, that they could not get the | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
courts to reopen it, I thought, this is the only route, so I started as a | :25:34. | :25:40. | |
councillor and worked my way up. So was it something that was always | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
around you? Oh, yeah, especially the BBC, because they done a | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
documentary, they realised we had all the furniture from when Derek | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
was alive, so one of the wagons turned up outside the house, took | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
most of the furniture, it seems normal! If I was playing in the | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
corner of the room and mum and grandad were doing an interview with | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
camera crews, it was everyday life. You said about the fact that your | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
grandparents could not get the courts to revisit, because obviously | :26:16. | :26:24. | |
of the finality of what happened. It wasn't around to show that Derek did | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
not make that statement, that it was a coerced statement, that he did not | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
say those words, because we found a police officer who said that Derek, | :26:35. | :26:43. | |
luck, he said, I was only feet away, but I wasn't allowed to give | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
evidence, I was not stopped but I was coerced, it wouldn't be for the | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
best. What impact does it have on a family like yours when there has | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
been that finality but you are carrying on fighting for a | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
miscarriage of justice? He was ultimately, his conviction for | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
murder was ultimately quashed in 1998, but that was a very long | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
battle. It was a long, long battle. Sadly, my grandparents did not get | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
to see it, my mother died a year previously, and that is the biggest | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
travesty, that they were not there to see their hard work... I was born | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
into it, but they went through it, they sat in their sitting room on | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
the 28th of January, and at nine o'clock that morning they knew that | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
their son has just been murdered. Can you imagine how that must feel? | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
That you cannot do anything? The night before, Mum wanted to go and | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
see Derek, and there is a glass window up, and she just wanted to | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
get a chair and break through it so she could hug her brother for the | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
last time. But you weren't allowed to touch them, in case you were | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
going to do them any harm. That is what I have had all my life, the | :28:06. | :28:12. | |
feelings, but the love too, the love of an uncle I have never had. But I | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
know he loves me and I love him. And you have dedicated your life to what | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
happened. Yes, and also to make sure that other cases around the world | :28:24. | :28:30. | |
too, that we highlight the injustice of the death penalty, because some | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
countries just use it for, you know, because you have stolen something. | :28:36. | :28:42. | |
It is wrong, death is wrong. For a country to be a humanitarian | :28:43. | :28:49. | |
country, you have got to have a legal system that you can be proud | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
of. I want to bring in Robert Douglas, you were speaking about the | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
agonising final moments of Derek's life for your family. Roberts saw it | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
on the other side, in that you were a former prison officer, actually | :29:03. | :29:12. | |
with Russell Pascoe, one of the last meant to be hanged in this country, | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
as he was heading for his execution. What was your perspective? Well, it | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
was part of the job, when you were a prison officer back then. I sat with | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
Russell Pascoe in December 1963, and if you were a prison officer, you | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
knew there was always a chance you may have to sit with somebody for | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
six weeks, which obviously happened to me. And most of the time, when a | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
prisoner comes into the condemned cell, he has his appeal, then he has | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
an appeal to the Home Secretary for clemency, and then the day before, | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
the last thing is an appeal to the Queen. When they come in, they are | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
quite relaxed, they think they have three chances to get off, and only | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
when it gets towards the end does it become really heavy. How did you | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
feel about the death penalty at the time? Did you question it? Well, at | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
the time it was part of life. I must say, I am not just saying it because | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
she is on the show, but even before I became a prison officer, I thought | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
Derek Bentley should never have been hanged. I think the police were so | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
determined to get somebody, they could not get Christopher Craig, so | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
they twisted what Bentley was supposed to have said, let him have | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
it. He was telling him to give him the gun, so they did not get into | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
further trouble. I have great sympathy for the Bentley family. | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
That is very kind of you, and I know the prison officer that looked after | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
Derek, he, you know, he came to us afterwards and spoke to ask, and he | :30:50. | :30:52. | |
looked after Derek, and he wrote his last letter, and he was a really | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
lovely guy. So it helped Derek's last stage tremendously, so that is | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
really kind of you to say that. It is a huge responsibility for the | :31:02. | :31:10. | |
prison guards involved in these cases? It was a case of sitting with | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
them. There were three officers and you were in three pairs. I went down | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
from Birmingham Prison where I was stationed to Bristol and I teamed up | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
with another officer and it was a case a condemned man was never left | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
alone. His co accused was a nasty piece of work, so the officers told | :31:32. | :31:45. | |
us, but Pascal was led astray. We played cards and Monopoly and sat | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
and talked and told jokes and he had his birthday when he was in and I | :31:51. | :31:57. | |
brought him in a cream cake for his birthday. The remaining ten days I | :31:58. | :32:05. | |
would bring him in a cream cake. We got on very well with Pascal, but he | :32:06. | :32:14. | |
had been led astray. What is the legacy for this country having had | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
the death penalty and having it abolished now? Our abolition | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
experience taught us a number of things, first of all that legal | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
systems can go wrong and it is firm policy goal of the UK Government and | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
it has been a for a number of years to work for abolition and the work | :32:32. | :32:37. | |
is bearing fruit, countries are gradually abolishing the death | :32:38. | :32:39. | |
penalty and that's largely as a result of the UK Government and | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
other governments working through the United Nations which encourages | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
countries to look for alternatives to the death penalty. It resulted in | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
the UK Government having this as a firm policy goal which it does | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
actively pursue. Secondly, it affects the way in which the UK's | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
law enforcement agencies work with other overseas agencies in criminal | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
investigations. We are reluctant to help other countries in cases where | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
there maybe a death sentence imposed. All of that is drawn from | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
the lessons that we learned during abolition as I say namely that | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
systems fail. No matter how many protections you have, no matter how | :33:16. | :33:24. | |
many layers of appeal, the system can fail. The system failed and | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
because we've learned those lessons, we're determined to make sure that | :33:29. | :33:31. | |
similar tragedies don't happen around the world. One of the | :33:32. | :33:40. | |
arguments that people cite for the death centre penalty is it is a | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
deterrent? The best work has been done in the United States where | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
sophisticated models have been built up and the General Awe did Office in | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
the United States had an overview of all studies and there is no | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
deterrent effect that can be shown. I agree with that. The work I've | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
been and the prisons I have been into, they are full of murderers. It | :34:03. | :34:12. | |
isn't a der at theant. Deterrent. Rehabilitation is a thing we have to | :34:13. | :34:14. | |
look forward at in all the countries. It does cost more money | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
and the governments say, you know, we haven't got it, but we have to do | :34:18. | :34:25. | |
it. We have to look forward and it has to be down that route. It just | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
fundamentally has no place in a modern, moral legal system. Exactly. | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
Thank you very much. We have to leave our discuss. | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
-- discussion. We're going to go to David Cameron. He is giving a speech | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
right now about Europe to business leaders and we can listen in. Has | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
always spoken truth to power. Someone who I've worked with very | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
close will, your great leader, John Cridland, John, thank you very much. | :34:52. | :35:02. | |
APPLAUSE Let me welcome Caroline, it is great | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
that the Crib is going to tap into strong female leadership, it is | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
about time and a great welcome to her. I'm sure she will do a | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
brilliant job. Can I welcome what you are saying about global | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
ambition? That's right for Britain. Not least in a week when we welcome | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
the Indian Prime Minister, having recently welcomed the Chinese | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
president and John, can I welcome what you say about a scoring Britain | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
as an Aston Villa fan, this is something close to my heart, scoring | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
would be a very good idea! Thinking about what to speak about today, I | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
went back to what I said to you in 2010 when I stao on a stage just | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
like this and I said I wanted the next five years to be amongst the | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
most dynamic and enterprising in Britain's history. Now, I'm not | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
standing here and claiming we have solved all of Britain's economic | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
problems, but we are in an immensely stronger position today than we were | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
five years ago. You can see that in the 900,000 more businesses there | :36:05. | :36:07. | |
are operating in Britain. You can see it in the fact that we employ | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
two million more people. But I also think these have been years where | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
the entrepreneurial spirit has really got going again in Britain. | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
I'm not going to dazzle you with statistics, but it is notable that | :36:22. | :36:28. | |
we've got unicorns, you might think what the hell are unicorns? A | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
unicorn is a start-up business that's already reached ?1 billion in | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
value. Four out of ten unicorns in Europe are based here in Britain, | :36:38. | :36:44. | |
businesses like Just Eat, like asos, you can see it in the fact when | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
compared with 2010, venture capital is investing ten times more in | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
Britain than it did five years ago. You can see it in the fact that in | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
the last five years, 191 new companies have decided to head | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
quarter here in Britain, far more than any other country in Europe. | :37:04. | :37:09. | |
These have been years of enterprise, go to tech city, it is an | :37:10. | :37:12. | |
extraordinary thing that just five years ago, there were 250 businesses | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
in tech city. There are now over 3,000. It is Europe's tech hub. So I | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
think these have been years of enterprise. They are years of dithat | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
meusm, but we have got so much more to do. I want to briefly say where I | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
think we are. Identify what the next challenges for us to tackle together | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
are and then mention two of the biggest challenges, the deficit and | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
Europe and then I'll happily take your questions. And in terms of | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
where we are, we've got this position of a stronger economy, a | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
deficit down by half, the fastest growth in the G7, we have done it | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
through partnership. You were very clear about what you wanted from | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
Government. You wanted lower taxes and we've cut our corporate taxes to | :37:57. | :38:02. | |
the lowest in the G20 and we are heading for an 18% corporation tax. | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
You said you wanted regulation lifted off business. We've taken ?10 | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
billion of regulation off business and our rules on regulation, if any | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
minister of mine wants to introduce a regulation, they have to cut two | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
regulations that, I think is working well. You said you wanted planning | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
reformed and we produced thousands of planning guidance with 50 key | :38:25. | :38:27. | |
pages so Britain starts building againment you said you wanted | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
infrastructure prioritised, we haven't solved our infrastructure | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
problems by any manner of moons, but we are about to complete the biggest | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
infrastructure project anywhere in Europe, we have given the green | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
light to HS2 and we have set-up, not just an infrastructure plan, but now | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
a cross party, all party, non political infrastructure commission | :38:51. | :38:53. | |
to make sure we build what we need for our future. Now we haven't | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
managed to achieve all of the things I would like to, but under those key | :38:58. | :39:04. | |
issues, taxes, infrastructure, red tape, planning, skills, in the last | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
Parliament we trained two million apprentices so we are beginning to | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
deal with Britain's skills deficit. I think we have come a long way, but | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
we have come a long way businessed on partnership and I hope that this | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
organisation, under its new leadership, will continue to work | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
with us. We want to be the most business friendly, the most | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
enterprise friendly Government anywhere in Europe. That's the goal. | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
So help us to achieve that. One of the ways we can measure progress is | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
through the international definition of the best place in the world to do | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
business and we've just moved to sixth out of the entire globe. This | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
is the sixth best place anywhere in the world to start and to run a | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
business. So first point, keep working with us to drifr that. | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
Second thing, what do we need to do next? The problems that remain we | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
are still not exporting enough, we still don't have a balanced enough | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
economy, and we've got a particular issue with some of our | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
infrastructure including broadband. So let me say some of the things I | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
think I need to focus on and dare I say t some of the things I hope that | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
you will focus on. And in terms of our focus in Government, you're | :40:14. | :40:16. | |
going to see a real drive to help more of you export. We still have a | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
situation in Britain where about 11% of our companies export, we want to | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
drive that up and you can already see the big advertising campaign, | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
the big promotional campaign to encourage exporting. We still need | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
to do better on skills. And you're going to see from us the funding for | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
three million apprentices in this Parliament. And as said, a big focus | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
for us is going to be broadband. If you're a business, or an individual | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
or a household and you're not connected to broadband, it is like | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
not being connected to the road network or not connected to the | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
electricity network and today I can say what we're going to do next. | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
We're taking this country from 2010, about 45% of homes passed to now 83% | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
of homes passed we're on track to get to 95% of homes passed in 2017, | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
but one of the ways we're going to get to that next step and go beyond | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
it is to treat broadband in the same way that we treat tell fondy and in | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
the same way we treat electricity which is to have a Universal Service | :41:20. | :41:21. | |
Obligation. which is to have a Universal Service | :41:22. | :41:28. | |
with Ofcom about how best to deliver it, but the minimum guarantee of 10 | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
with Ofcom about how best to deliver megabits per second that should be | :41:34. | :41:35. | |
with Ofcom about how best to deliver delivered through a universal | :41:36. | :41:36. | |
service guarantee. For us, delivered through a universal | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
on exports, a focus delivered through a universal | :41:40. | :41:49. | |
more balanced than it was, we have seen unemployment fall in every | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
region. We have actually seen exports and manufacturing grow | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
faster outside London and the South East than inside it, but there is | :41:58. | :41:58. | |
much more we can do and I'd really East than inside it, but there is | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
encourage you to work with us with this devolution revolution that's | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
encourage you to work with us with taking place where we where we | :42:07. | :42:08. | |
devolve the uniform business rate to local authorities. This will be one | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
of the biggest changes in the way we run our country in years because in | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
future, the local councils will want to attract your businesses to set-up | :42:17. | :42:18. | |
in their area. Today, to attract your businesses to set-up | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
little interest in doing that. In future f you | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
will keep the money and reconnecting will keep the money and reconnecting | :42:26. | :42:34. | |
very big change. In terms of the things I hope that you | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
very big change. In terms of the and challenges if you like that I've | :42:39. | :42:38. | |
thrown out to are not always easy, let me mention | :42:39. | :42:38. | |
a couple. are not always easy, let me mention | :42:39. | :42:45. | |
the national Living Wage. I know this is a challenge for | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
the national Living Wage. I know it is the right challenge. We have | :42:50. | :42:50. | |
got to move towards an economy where it is the right challenge. We have | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
we have lower taxes, higher pay, it is the right challenge. We have | :42:56. | :42:56. | |
lower welfare. It makes no sense it is the right challenge. We have | :42:57. | :42:59. | |
have an economy where we take money away from people in taxes, give it | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
back to them in ever more complicated benefits. Instead of | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
having an economy where we pay people properly and don't take their | :43:08. | :43:10. | |
money in taxes and encourage enterprise and work. | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
money in taxes and encourage with us on the national Living Wage. | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
Second thing is please work with us on the skills agenda. I know it is | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
going to be a challenge. The apprenticeship levy, but we all know | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
we need a more highly skilled economy. The Government can play its | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
part, not least through school reform and you will hear from Nicky | :43:30. | :43:31. | |
Morgan this afternoon, but we need you to play your part through | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
funding the apprenticeship levy and making sure we are one of the | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
leaders in Europe when it comes to skills and not one of the followers. | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
Let me just mention finally, as I said I would, sorry one more thing | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
I'm asking for you, a bit of a shopping list. One more thing I want | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
to ask you from is to work with us on the agenda of fighting | :43:54. | :43:56. | |
discrimination and promoting equality. Everyone in this room | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
believes in opportunity. Everyone in this room believes you should be | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
able to rise as high as your talents allow you, but we have to admit that | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
for some people that opportunity is blocked because of where they come | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
from or the colour of their skin or the circumstances that they were | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
born into. We need to crack that together. And what I said at the | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
party conference about name blind application which is going to take | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
place in our universities and also take part for instance our Civil | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
Service, please, the more of you that can work with that, I think, | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
the better. We want to build a country where we really access the | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
talent of everybody and no one is held back. Let me finally mention | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
the two, perhaps the two biggest challenges of all that we face in | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
our country in the coming five years. I think we're in a strong | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
position. The economy is growing. Unemployment has been coming dourngs | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
business is thriving, all over the world people can see this is a very | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
enterprising place to come and investment here are the two big | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
challenges we've got to solve. First of all, we haven't finished the work | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
on the deficit. It has come down by half, soon to be down by a third, | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
but we've got to finish the job. Some people, when we look at what | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
we're doing, this say, of course, I understand you've got to live within | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
your means, Ind stand you have to reduce the deficit, but why are you | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
targeting a surplus? Let me tell you briefly why I think it is so | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
important. By 2019, this country would have been growing for nine or | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
ten years and if at the end of nine or ten years growth, you're not | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
putting aside money for a rainy day, you're not paying down your debt to | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
GDP ration yo, then when are you going to do that? To me, one of the | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
most important things that a Government can deliver is long-term | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
economic security and stability. If you wait for a minute, you can | :45:45. | :45:55. | |
have a discussion, rather than interrupting what is a very good | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
conference. , on, guys, if you sit down now, you can ask me a | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
question, rather than making fools of yourselves by standing up and | :46:06. | :46:07. | |
protesting. APPLAUSE | :46:08. | :46:16. | |
Yeah. You have made your point, thank you very much. Well done. Even | :46:17. | :46:29. | |
I can remember that script without any notes! Thanks, guys! Right... | :46:30. | :46:40. | |
The final two points, deficit, on the deficit, it is important we get | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
to a surplus. We need to reduce our debt to GDP ratio so we are strong | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
and secure. Why does it matter so much? I don't stand on a stage like | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
this and tell you I have abolished boom and bust. There may be rainy | :46:55. | :47:00. | |
days and, no-one can tell, and as Prime Minister, as an economy, we | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
should be thinking about how we cope with rainy days, how we give | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
ourselves the capacity to respond with a strong and robust set of | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
public finances. I would say work with us, help us to explain why, in | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
some years, it is important to run a surplus. The final challenge, | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
Europe, and this is going to be a huge question for our country in the | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
year ahead and until we have that referendum. Now, I am not going to | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
lay out all the arguments for you today, not least because I have a | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
very big speech tomorrow, and I don't want to pre-empt myself, as it | :47:34. | :47:39. | |
were. But I just want to say this, first of all, the negotiation I am | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
engaged in, that is really starting with this letter that I am sending | :47:43. | :47:49. | |
Donald Tusk, the council president, tomorrow, I think it is vital for | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
the future of our country. I am not satisfied with the status quo in | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
Europe, and the things I want fixed, whether it is making a more | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
competitive Europe, whether it is making sure we are out of ever | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
closer union, making sure there is proper fan is between those in and | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
out of the eurozone, as John Cridland said. -- fairness. Or | :48:08. | :48:13. | |
whether it is reducing the pressures of immigration, these are big and | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
important changes, and it is vital that we achieve them. Once I have | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
achieved them, if I can achieve them, you will see me campaigning | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
vigorously for Britain to stay in a reformed Europe. If I cannot achieve | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
them, I rule nothing out. Europe needs to change, and I think it is | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
very important we make this argument. And it is a massive | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
challenge for our country, so while I am not starting, not firing the | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
starting gun on the referendum campaign, what I have done in recent | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
weeks is just to debunk some of the daft arguments that people put | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
around. So last week I talked about what I think is a very duff argument | :48:52. | :49:00. | |
put about by the out campaign, which is that it would be easy for Britain | :49:01. | :49:04. | |
to sign up to a deal like Norway. I think that would be a bad idea. If | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
we look at the detail of the deal that Norway has, they pay more per | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
head into the European Union than we do, they take more migration than we | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
do, and yet they don't have a seat at the table to determine what the | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
rules are. So that is a bad deal, so the people who definitely want to | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
leave, they need to come up with a better argument than, let's have a | :49:28. | :49:31. | |
position like Norway. But I also want to debunk an Arquin and that is | :49:32. | :49:37. | |
sometimes but around... We will leave the Prime Minister talking to | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
business leaders at the CBI conference, starting to talk about | :49:42. | :49:45. | |
Europe, saying he is not firing the starting gun on the campaign but | :49:46. | :49:48. | |
starting to flesh out the arguments more. We will be hearing from Norman | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
Smith later, and you can watch the rest of that speech online at the | :49:53. | :50:00. | |
BBC website. Let's get the very latest weather update with Carol | :50:01. | :50:07. | |
Kirkwood, but before that, we want to hear bit more about you, how are | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
you feeling today? Relieved, Strictly was a wonderful | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
experience, such good fun. Let's have a look at some of your best | :50:16. | :50:18. | |
moments, there have been a lot of them! | :50:19. | :50:27. | |
I think Pasha is gorgeous. You are the best. If I could not get the | :50:28. | :50:33. | |
steps, he would say, don't worry, you will get them tomorrow. The | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
judges were mostly encouraging, Joanna. Sometimes they were a bit | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
harsh! It was such good fun, Pasha is patient, a gentleman, he never | :50:46. | :50:51. | |
ever humiliated me in any sense, just lovely, I could not praise | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
highly enough. Such fun. Good for the waistline as well! You were | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
amazing, and the audience loved you. The audience at home were so kind, | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
because it was the audience that kept as in, the scores were not | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
great, but it really was good fun. I guess it is a release of endorphins, | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
all that exercise, good music, just than sing to it, but it is so | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
different. When you are dancing at a party, you just move in time to the | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
music. With this, you think of every single step, get your neck up, chest | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
out, bend one leg, straight in the other, all in one beat, it is harder | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
than it looks. I want to see you at the next BBC party! You and me on | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
that dance floor, it is a date! Lovely to have you back, what can | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
you tell us about the weather? It is a bit unsettled, quite a lot | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
of rain around and also some wind. For the rest of this week, that is | :51:54. | :51:57. | |
roughly what we are looking at, windy conditions at times, rain at | :51:58. | :52:02. | |
times, and it is going to stay mild as well. Now, temperatures have been | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
above average for the time of year, and they will continue to be so, | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
especially tomorrow morning. It is a windy start to the day, and it has | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
been from the word go. Rain across parts of Scotland, Northern Ireland, | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
northern England and Wales, some could lead to localised flooding | :52:22. | :52:24. | |
across West Yorkshire in particular. Gusty winds, gusting up | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
to 50 or 60 mph across central and southern Scotland, the transparent | :52:30. | :52:32. | |
roots, possibly a bit more than that, something to bear in mind if | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
you are travelling, the wind and rain is not a nice one. -- windy | :52:37. | :52:50. | |
along the south coast this afternoon, gusts of up to 40 mph, | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
but for a lot of southern and central and eastern England it is | :52:56. | :53:13. | |
dry. Four. Increasingly the wind will strengthen | :53:14. | :53:15. | |
dry. Four. Increasingly the wind Isles, gusts of up to 60 mph. | :53:16. | :53:17. | |
Through the Isles, gusts of up to 60 mph. | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
strengthen across Northern Ireland, it will bake a little bit, but | :53:22. | :53:29. | |
strengthen across Northern Ireland, night. -- abate. | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
strengthen across Northern Ireland, still high for during the day if we | :53:35. | :53:35. | |
looked still high for during the day if we | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
Tomorrow morning, still windy, for some of us a wet one. | :53:41. | :53:41. | |
Tomorrow morning, still windy, for the rain across Northern Ireland and | :53:42. | :53:44. | |
Scotland. the rain across Northern Ireland and | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
but through the the rain across Northern Ireland and | :53:49. | :53:54. | |
Midlands, in the direction of East Anglia. Look at the temperatures, | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
Midlands, in the direction of East 10-17 Celsius. In fact, parts of | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
south-east Scotland, north-east England and Cheshire could have | :54:04. | :54:07. | |
17-Nadine, way above average. And as we move through Tuesday into | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
Wednesday, the we move through Tuesday into | :54:11. | :54:13. | |
has been producing the rain for the next couple of days will still be | :54:14. | :54:15. | |
with us. You can tell next couple of days will still be | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
squeeze on the isobars that it is also going to be windy, not as windy | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
as today, but nonetheless you will notice it. This is the band of rain, | :54:23. | :54:24. | |
in the north we are notice it. This is the band of rain, | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
showers. South of notice it. This is the band of rain, | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
cloud, temperatures by then Hello, it's Monday, | :54:32. | :54:40. | |
I'm Joanna Gosling, welcome to the programme | :54:41. | :54:42. | |
if you've just joined us. As the world of athletics braces | :54:43. | :54:54. | |
itself for reports of corruption, Richard Yates tells us the claims | :54:55. | :55:03. | |
have shattered his faith in the sport. We thought they were trying | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
to back as, but if that is not the case, then what sort of hope do we | :55:08. | :55:14. | |
have as a sport? All the details and more reaction to the claims. | :55:15. | :55:16. | |
Hundreds of British tourists are still stranded in Sharm el-Sheikh. | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
We'll look at the effort to bring the last of them home. | :55:20. | :55:22. | |
Why are more girls and young women getting involved in violent crime? | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
We'll be joined live by former girl-gang members. | :55:26. | :55:40. | |
The Chancellor has agreed cuts of 30% with four government department | :55:41. | :55:46. | |
as part of the Spending Review aimed at putting the public finances back | :55:47. | :55:52. | |
into surplus by 2020. Transport, local government, environment and | :55:53. | :55:54. | |
the Treasury have told the Chancellor they will reduce their | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
budgets by 8% a year. A report into alleged corruption in athletics is | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
due to be released later today. The World Anti-Doping Agency set up an | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
inquiry after it was alleged that Russian officials had accepted | :56:09. | :56:11. | |
bribes to cover up positive drug tests. The new head of world | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
athletics, Lord Coe, has acknowledged there will be a long | :56:16. | :56:19. | |
road to redemption for the sport. I am more determined than ever to | :56:20. | :56:22. | |
rebuild the trust in our sport. It is not going to be a short journey. | :56:23. | :56:31. | |
Take a look at these incredible pictures from Mississippi. | :56:32. | :56:33. | |
It's a hole that opened up in a car park outside a restaurant. | :56:34. | :56:36. | |
Diners described how they were eating their meals | :56:37. | :56:38. | |
when the lights suddenly went out and they heard a loud crash. | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
They rushed out to find their cars swallowed by up the 14-metre hole. | :56:42. | :56:44. | |
Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Jess. | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
Sport dominated by the doping story today. | :56:49. | :56:52. | |
As you've been discussing this morning, Joanna, the big story today | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
is the report that's to be published later that's expected to confirm | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
allegations of widespread bribery and corruption within athletics. | :57:00. | :57:07. | |
The findings of an independent commission, | :57:08. | :57:13. | |
set up by the World Anti-Doping Agency, | :57:14. | :57:14. | |
are to be published at two o'clock this afternoon. | :57:15. | :57:16. | |
has already said that these are dark days for the sport. | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
Away from that story, the Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp said he felt | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
It was Liverpool's first defeat under their new German manager. | :57:28. | :57:30. | |
Sections of the Anfield support left | :57:31. | :57:32. | |
after Scott Dan's late goal put Palace 2-1 up. | :57:33. | :57:35. | |
Klopp said, I turned around and I felt pretty alone at this moment. | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
in the final of the Paris Masters yesterday by Novak Djokovic. | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
He lost in straight sets to the world number one, | :57:45. | :57:46. | |
but immediately set his sights on this month's Davis Cup final. | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
He'll begin practising on clay today for the match against Belgium | :57:51. | :57:53. | |
And it's Danny, champion of the world. | :57:54. | :58:01. | |
That's Danny Kent, who yesterday became Britain's | :58:02. | :58:03. | |
first Grand Prix motorcycling world champion for 38 years. | :58:04. | :58:05. | |
He won the Moto3 title in Valencia yesterday. | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
The last British world champion was Barry Sheene in 1977. | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
From a British champion to an Irish one. | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
it doesn't get much bigger than the WWE. | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
And British and Irish wrestlers are playing an ever growing part. | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
I'm delighted to say that I'm joined by rising star Finn Balor. | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
You have brought your belt, which is great to see. Title! But you have | :58:32. | :58:39. | |
not brought your costume or make-up, I was expecting to see you dressed | :58:40. | :58:45. | |
up, did you not have time? It is a process, and we really save that for | :58:46. | :58:50. | |
the big show, just as myself today. How does the costume come about? Do | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
you do it yourself? Where does the inspiration come from? The | :58:56. | :58:58. | |
inspiration is that everybody has two sites to their personality, and | :58:59. | :59:03. | |
on one hand my personality is very laid-back and introverted, but I | :59:04. | :59:08. | |
believe everyone can be extroverted, and this costume helps me release | :59:09. | :59:13. | |
that demon. Fantastic to see, you seem quite reserved, but the videos | :59:14. | :59:18. | |
I have seen a view on the internet, anything bad, exuberant, | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
extroverted, how does it take you to get into your persona? Before I go | :59:23. | :59:27. | |
live on TV, I might have green juice, how do you do it? It is | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
something that has been developed over the years, a long time to | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
develop the persona, not something that happens on the spur of the | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
moment. But with regards to preparation on the day, it can take | :59:40. | :59:42. | |
five or six hours to really get warmed up and ready to go. And you | :59:43. | :59:48. | |
are only in the ring for a few minutes? Well, it depends on what | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
show, it could be up to 30 minutes. How did you get started in | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
wrestling? Signing with the WWE must be a big thing for you. Obviously, | :59:57. | :00:06. | |
that was a huge deal, but my wrestling journey started in Kent, | :00:07. | :00:08. | |
England, in a small wrestling gym there. I spent six years training in | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
Kent, somehow found my way to Japan, trained in a Japanese dojo, | :00:12. | :00:20. | |
and then the opportunity to sign with the WWE was an opportunity I | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
could not refuse. You have been billed as the next big superstar. I | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
would be under more pressure if I was not being hailed as the next big | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
superstar. I know it is a lot of responsibility to live up to, but I | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
am ready for the challenge. Thank you so much for joining us, you will | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
be performing in the Manchester Arena tonight. Yes, it is sold out, | :00:42. | :00:53. | |
but still some tickets for tomorrow night, we will be there too. Good | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
luck with that, I hope you bring back another title, good to see you | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
when you have made it in a few years. | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
Thank you for joining us this morning, welcome to the programme. | :01:02. | :01:08. | |
if you've just joined us, we're on BBC Two and the BBC News | :01:09. | :01:14. | |
Doping cover-ups, extortion and money laundering, | :01:15. | :01:24. | |
all allegations rocking the world of athletics this morning. | :01:25. | :01:33. | |
Peter said, "Until athletes are banned, it will never stop." Another | :01:34. | :01:45. | |
viewer says, "Athletes should get the medals on a podium at a later | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
date." Your contributions to this | :01:48. | :01:55. | |
programme and your expertise Texts will be charged | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
at the standard network rate. And of course you can watch | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
the programme online wherever you are via the bbc news app or | :02:01. | :02:02. | |
our website bbc.co.uk/victoria And you can also subscribe to all | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
our features on the news app, by going to add topics | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
and searching Victoria Derbyshire. Doping cover-ups, | :02:09. | :02:10. | |
extortion and money laundering, Later today the World Anti-Doping | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
Agency will publish a report into all of this with one of its authors | :02:16. | :02:17. | |
saying it will expose "a whole Allegations already centre | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
on this man Lamine Diack, the former president of world | :02:22. | :02:23. | |
athletics governing body, the IAAF. He's now at the centre of a French | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
investigation over claims he took bribes from the Russian Athletic | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
Federation to cover up positive His son | :02:31. | :02:32. | |
and three others have been charged with various alleged breaches | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
of the IAAF's code of Ethics. Richard Conway is with me. Richard, | :02:36. | :02:46. | |
how much detail are we expecting in the report later? It will be a | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
substantial report. We heard from the head of the World Anti-Doping | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
Agency. He said it would be a robust report. I think many people will | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
want that. These allegations, are as bad as they can get. These are | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
allegations about the guardians of athletics potentially taking money | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
in order to cover-up doping violations in order that athletes | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
could continue to compete. For fans of the sport, for clean athletes, | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
they will want to see a That a thorough investigation has been | :03:15. | :03:16. | |
done, but then, of course, the question comes to what action will | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
be taken? This report and the people behind it, don't have powers to | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
implement sanctions or to take action, but the IAAF does. The | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
attention will shift to them, to Lord Coe to see how they will get a | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
grip on the crisis and how they are going to tackle the allegations that | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
are essentially a cancer at the heart of the sport. | :03:38. | :03:48. | |
Let's get the thoughts of Roger and Chris. He is laughing, but it is not | :03:49. | :04:00. | |
a laughing matter this. We are awaiting to hear this, in a few | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
hours time, there will be a press conference and this announcement, | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
but if the suspicions are true that the governing body of the sport have | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
been covering up drugs tests and taking money to cover up drugs | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
tests, it changes everything because up until now, you have always | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
thought the governing body is there to not just run the sport, but to | :04:20. | :04:21. | |
protect the innocent athlete. accept that athletes will cheat. We | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
accept that. I have always felt that the | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
accept that. I have always felt that also think you are working | :04:31. | :04:32. | |
accept that. I have always felt that framework and a sport that's | :04:33. | :04:34. | |
protecting the innocent athlete. If it finds out that in the corridors | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
of power, they haven't been doing that, they have been protecting | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
guilty athletes, it is a dark day for athletics. Chris, what are your | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
thoughts? Roger nailed it really. The IAAF and its officers there are | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
to police, protect and promote our sport. It is thought it is a certain | :04:53. | :05:00. | |
bad ap unless certain federations and certain individual athletes that | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
are contravening the law, the right that right at the very top, right at | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
core, you have got people who are cheating and enabling people to | :05:11. | :05:12. | |
cheat and it doesn't bear thinking cheating and enabling people to | :05:13. | :05:14. | |
about. You then ask how cheating and enabling people to | :05:15. | :05:23. | |
go? You will say, if a king is corrupt, the nation perishes, does | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
this percolate? Nobody on his or her own can actually lead the | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
corruption. They need to have people in the right places. That's a really | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
scary thought because as I have said, you thought it was a few loose | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
cannons before, but if it is really this deep and this far, we are all | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
in trouble. Roger, what's the way to tackle | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
this? There is one man who has to tackle that and that's the new | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
president, Sebastian Coe, he is coming in to a sport that's at its | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
lowest point. He has got an opportunity to be very firm and to | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
be very strong. There is the case, is the deterrent strong enough to | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
stop people cheating? It is one thing stopping individuals and | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
another thing stopping federations. If there is a federation that | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
appears to have a lot of drug cheating going on, then you should | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
ban that federation or those and the Lieths from the World Athletic | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
Championships, I don't think he will do that, but it will be on the table | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
for discussion. Do you think he should do that? You need to look at | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
changing the culture, that's a pretty big step to take. Why not? | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
You are penalising everybody for a few. We need to see the details as | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
they come out. Then there is the whole point, a the moment, it is a | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
four year drugs ban and you can come back and have another chance. Seb | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
Coe said he is for life bans, but he can't see it through because the | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
legal profession will challenge that and the sport will lose. You will | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
see Coe taking strong action. He has been vice president of the | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
federation for the last few years and a lot of people are questioning | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
him. That's understandable, but unfair, because he claims he knew | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
nothing about this. I believe him. This has taken him by surprise. | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
Where there allegations swirling around? No, there was allegations | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
and suspicions about drug taking by athletes and maybe federations he is | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
saying and I believe him that no one thought there was corruption going | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
on within the corridors of power and the sport. Chris, what measures do | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
you think would change things going forward? I think, cometh the name, | :07:33. | :07:41. | |
cometh the hour, Lord Coe needs to lead by example. One of the | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
challenges that we have is that sport at this top level is big | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
business. Lots of money. I do think it will be tough, but I think Lord | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
Coe would need to will being at some of the ambassadory position that is | :07:58. | :08:03. | |
he has got with big businesses that are linked to the sport. And you | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
know, and re-think whether it looks good being there to police and | :08:10. | :08:18. | |
protect while, it is a tough one, while being linked to promoting | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
themselves? You can really see how there is this, it is not virtuous, | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
but there is this unhealthy thing where you have got sponsors and | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
athletes and federations federations all trying to promote themselves and | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
get ahead of the sport. Lord Coe needs to be seen to cut himself away | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
from that and really have this, you know, I'm at the top of the sport, | :08:42. | :08:47. | |
I'm going to sort it out. I think he is the right person. I think he is | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
charismatic, but also he has been in politics long enough to know the | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
game. I do think it is sad news if this has been going on and Lord Coe | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
has been the vice president and he had no inkling. That will be a | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
little bit alarming too because you would think that, you know, you | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
would think that if you are that close to the corridors of power, you | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
have an inkling, it doesn't mean you would think it is right or you can't | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
say something unless you have got some proof. If you would think if he | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
was that close he would have an inkling, otherwise, what's going on | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
up there? He is clear. He said he hadn't heard anything until the | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
start of the week and he certainly believes everyone else in the sport | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
is in the same boaten that. He will speak on behalf of a lot of people | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
involved in athletics who have the deep frustration that one of the | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
thereins is all happening is that athletics more than any other sport | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
has invested time and money and effort to drug test as many people. | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
In our way, we were tested, but not like they are now. A lot of sports | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
don't bother because of course, the more athletes the you test, the | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
greater chance of catching the odd one. If you catch one, it is front | :10:00. | :10:06. | |
page news. We have had Mo Farah and Paula Radcliffe dragged into the | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
situation. Is he off? We will carry on without you! | :10:13. | :10:20. | |
Thank you, Chris. Thank you. He a prior engagement. | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
That's what is happening. The sport has invested so much time and money | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
and effort into trying to clean itself up and of course, by doing | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
that, you discover things that are happening and I think that was OK | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
when it was catching athletes cheating, but why this is such a big | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
deal, I don't think anyone really thought that some of those athletes | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
have been helped by the people who run the sport and I think it's, | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
there will be a lot of questions that Seb Coe will ask a lot of | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
people, but he will ask himself now, but as Chris said, maybe we are | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
biassed, but we think he is the right man at the right time and he | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
is someone who won't be scared to make big decisions now and I think | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
we will see him putting through big policies because you have to get the | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
trust of the public for a sport to be accepted again and I think this | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
is an all-time low for athletics. Thanks, Roger. Let us know what you | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
think about that. Hundreds more British tourists are | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
expected to be flown home from Sharm el-Sheikh today, following the | :11:18. | :11:19. | |
Russian plane crash nine days ago. Thomson Airways has confirmed | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
in the past hour it will have four flights departing from the Egyptian | :11:23. | :11:25. | |
resort today. The Foreign Secretary warned that | :11:26. | :11:33. | |
airport security around the world may have to be overhauled as a | :11:34. | :11:34. | |
result. Someone put something in their | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
suitcase to see if they'd actually Yes, there where two or three | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
people on board, apparently no The lady that was sat next to us | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
said well, I've got two lighters and they didn't check that and they | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
didn't go through any of this. So they've stepped up security | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
for 50% but not the other one, so what's the point in doing it | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
for anyone if you're not going to do To get onto our plane, | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
there were two queues. One side was doing bag checks, | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
the other side didn't check Didn't feel particularly safe, | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
did you? We went through security with the | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
bags, obviously lost our luggage, Got through and then we saw one | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
of the cleaners just walk straight through with two massive bottles | :12:18. | :12:23. | |
of water. Completely unchallenged and | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
after that point we were both Lets get the latest with | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
our correspondent Sally Nabil How long are the delays that | :12:30. | :12:46. | |
holiday-makers are facing? It might take a few more day to say | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
repatriate all the British holiday-makers back home. The | :12:53. | :12:54. | |
numbers of flight have been few compared to the number of | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
passengers. The Sharm el-Sheikh Airport is a small one. It can't | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
take all the flights at one go. The hold luggage will be kept at the | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
airport until arrangements are made to deliver them back to the UK. The | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
fact that the repatriation process is going slower than expected has | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
frustrated some of the passengers. We have spoken to people. They told | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
me their plans have been disrupted and others are running out of money | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
and they were hoping to get back home as soon as possible, but | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
according to the airport authorities, arrangements and | :13:30. | :13:31. | |
co-ordination is going on between the Egyptian side and the British | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
one so they can bring all the tourists back home as soon as | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
possible. On the other hand, the fact that many of the British | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
tourists are leaving in addition to the Russians, of course, is a major | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
blow to the tourism industry in Egypt. The Government started a | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
promotional campaign on the local media and on social media addressing | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
Egyptians who are living abroad to come and spend their holidays here | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
in Egypt because the country is in bad need of foreign currency and it | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
mainly depends on tourism for that. What is being done in terms of | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
making sure that security is improved for the Sharm el-Sheikh | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
long-term at? Tighter security measures have been put in place | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
actually since British aviation experts arrived at the airport three | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
or four days ago. We could see long queues of people waiting to check-in | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
because the security checks are taking much longer than before. | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
Tourists are being personally searched. The baggage are being | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
scanned. I have spoken to the tourists and they told me when they | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
first arrived two or three weeks ago, the picture was totally | :14:36. | :14:38. | |
different. They described the security measures at that time as | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
being messy and chaotic and now, despite the fact that they are | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
taking a longer time to check-in, some of them told me this makes them | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
feel safer. Thanks for joining us today, | :14:50. | :14:56. | |
still to come before 11am: Former girl-gang members tell us why | :14:57. | :14:58. | |
more young women seem to be getting involved in violent crime. And David | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
Cameron tells business leaders he And David Cameron tells business | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
leaders he will fight for a better The Chancellor has agreed cuts. | :15:08. | :15:25. | |
Transport, Local Government, environment and the Treasury have | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
told the Chancellor they will reduce their budgets by 8% a year. | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
An independent report into alleged corruption in athletics is due to be | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
released later today. The World Anti-Doping Agency set-up an inquiry | :15:40. | :15:42. | |
after it was alleged that Russian officials accepted bribes to | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
cover-up their athletes positive drug tests. The new head of world | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
athletics Lord Coe, acknowledged that there will be a long road to | :15:49. | :15:55. | |
redemption for the sport. I am more determined than ever to rebuild the | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
trust in our sport. It is not going to be a short journey. | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
The Prime Minister, David Cameron, has been speaking to a conference of | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
UK business leaders, urging them to consider whether Britain would be | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
more successful inside or outside the EU. In a letter to the European | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
Council president Judy be published tomorrow, he will outline his | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
demands for changes to the EU. -- due to be. I am not satisfied with | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
the status quo, and the things I want fixed, whether making sure we | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
are more competitive, out of a closer union, making sure there is | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
proper fairness for people out of the eurozone, as John Cridland said | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
a moment ago, or reducing the pressures we face through | :16:42. | :16:43. | |
immigration, these are big and important changes, and I think it is | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
vital we achieve them. Nine prisons are to be built under new government | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
plans to close Victorian jails and sell them for housing. 10,000 | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
prisoners will be transferred to the new institutions, 3000 new homes | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
will be built on old urban sites. Ministers say the plans will save | :17:03. | :17:04. | |
?80 million a year. The Ministers say the plans will save | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
opposition party in Myanmar, thereby and a sushi, says it is on course to | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
win 70% of Parliamentary seat in the elections. -- led by Aung San Suu | :17:14. | :17:21. | |
Kyi. Under the constitution, the military is guaranteed a quarter of | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
all Parliamentary seats. Some incredible pictures from | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
Mississippi, a whole that opened up in a car park outside a restaurant. | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
Diners were eating their meals in a car park outside a restaurant. | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
they heard a loud crash, they rushed in a car park outside a restaurant. | :17:37. | :17:38. | |
out to find their cars swallowed up by that enormous hole. Luckily | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
no-one was injured. Let's catch up with all | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
the sport now and join Jess. The Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp | :17:47. | :17:48. | |
said he felt all alone as his side lost at home to | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
Crystal Palace yesterday. It was Liverpool's first defeat | :17:52. | :17:53. | |
under their new German manager. Sections of the Anfield support | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
left after Scott Dan's late goal | :17:57. | :17:58. | |
put Palace 2-1 up. in the final of the Paris Masters | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
yesterday by Novak Djokovic. He lost in straight sets to the | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
world number one but immediately set his sights | :18:07. | :18:08. | |
on this month's Davis Cup final. He'll begin practising on clay | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
today for the match against Belgium That's Danny Kent who yesterday | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
became Britain's first Grand Prix motorcycling world champion | :18:15. | :18:21. | |
for 38 years. He won the Moto3 title in Valencia | :18:22. | :18:22. | |
yesterday. The last British world champion | :18:23. | :18:24. | |
was Barry Sheene in 1977 And we await what could be the worst | :18:25. | :18:42. | |
crisis ever to hit athletics, a report into corruption and doping in | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
the sport will be published at two o'clock by Wada. Further details of | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
that across the BBC News Channel as we have them. That is all the sport | :18:52. | :18:52. | |
for now. The Prime Minister has told business | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
leaders that the big argument with Europe isn't whether Britain | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
can survive outside Europe The Prime Minister was heckled | :18:59. | :19:00. | |
by a member of the audience Norman Smith is at the CBI | :19:01. | :19:15. | |
conference for ask, did he come up with much detail, Norman? Well, | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
Joanna, welcome to the press room in the bowels of this hotel where the | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
CBI conferences taking place. I thought it was quite a significant | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
speech, because the language we heard from Mr Cameron, saying he was | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
deadly serious about maybe leaving the EU, I am not bluffing, do not | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
doubt my resolve, I think DC was this - most people in politics | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
think, at the end of day, Mr Cameron will probably say, OK, I have done | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
the best deal I can, we ought to stay in the EU. In other words, they | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
are not entirely sure he is really serious about pulling out of Europe. | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
Today he wanted to knock that on the head, because if you have got that | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
kind of approach, basically, it is difficult to get anything out of EU | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
countries, because difficult to get anything out of EU | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
do not have to give him that much. I think he wants to send a message | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
saying, do not doubt my determination, if you do not give me | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
what I want, yes, I will pull out. There was no compromise on the sort | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
of demand he was seeking, saying, for example, that they would require | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
some sort of treaty change, changes would have to be irreversible, | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
legally binding. Again, he said he wanted to get that four-year ban on | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
EU migrants being able to claim benefits in the UK, and you just got | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
the sense that he was today toughening up his line, and the sort | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
of posture he strikes ahead of that letter he's going to send out to the | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
EU presidents tomorrow, Donald Tusk. Interesting too, there was a protest | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
in the middle of the speech, actually, by a couple of people, a | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
mini protest, a couple of people, I think we can see them here, saying | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
CBI is the voice of Brussels. Now, apparently, that was from some group | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
called Students For Britain, I have not heard of them, but obviously | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
they want us to leave the EU. I guess that is because there is a | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
perception that the CBI, by and large, is in the pro EU camp. A lot | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
of unhappiness about it among the boat stopped leave groups, saying | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
that CBI is representing business opinion. -- the vote to leave | :21:34. | :21:42. | |
groups. Mr Cameron is trying to fire a warning shot across the boughs of | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
leaders who think he is not serious that Britain could leave the EU. | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
For many, it's seen as the gateway to Europe. | :21:53. | :21:54. | |
Every day the Greek island of Lesbos is seeing thousands of migrants | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
and refugees land on its shores as they try to seek a better life. | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
A major international conference is being held in Malta this week | :22:02. | :22:03. | |
to discuss ways of dealing with the problem. | :22:04. | :22:05. | |
Volunteers from around the world have now stepped in | :22:06. | :22:07. | |
to provide much of the basic help the refugees and migrants need. | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
The BBC spent the day filming a volunteer working | :22:11. | :22:12. | |
for a dutch medical charity, the Boat Refugee Foundation. | :22:13. | :22:34. | |
So we are coming close to one of our landmarks, which is a burned-out | :22:35. | :22:41. | |
car. It is a car that burned-out a couple of weeks ago, that is how we | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
operate. When we go on the dirt road, we will contact each other and | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
referred to these landmarks, like the burned-out car, where boats are | :22:52. | :23:00. | |
arriving at those spots. A boat right there. | :23:01. | :23:09. | |
Come on, very good, very good. All right, watch out! I am just checking | :23:10. | :23:29. | |
if, especially the case, if everyone is all right, there are no kids | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
trampled or anything, just to have a first look to see if | :23:34. | :23:35. | |
trampled or anything, just to have a right on the boat. You can | :23:36. | :23:45. | |
translate. OK, you are doing good, you are doing great. This man had an | :23:46. | :23:52. | |
impairment with his legs. That is something pre-existing, I just | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
wanted to know if, other than that, he is OK. Can I do the bandage? I | :23:56. | :24:03. | |
want to take and off and do it again. Can you turn a little bit? | :24:04. | :24:12. | |
The child had been in the water for more than an hour, so we started CPR | :24:13. | :24:19. | |
right away, unfortunately we lost the child on the docks, in the | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
harbour. The second child we were able to get somewhat of a pulse, so | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
that child was being transported in the ambulance but unfortunately | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
died. That must devious guard. Well, yeah, they small children, yes, four | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
or five years old. -- that must leave you scarred. We are heading | :24:40. | :24:46. | |
back to base camp to Eftalou, to the medical post. We are going to see | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
what is going on there, see if there is people that need our help that | :24:52. | :24:59. | |
cannot be covered... A lot of people are now being transported back to | :25:00. | :25:02. | |
the base camp, and we have a medical team which is trying to figure out | :25:03. | :25:11. | |
if we can help them in anyway. This was a woman from Iran who just came | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
off the boat, apparently she was on the bus somewhere with some Afghan | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
men who wanted to throw her off, that is what she told us. There was | :25:21. | :25:27. | |
some distress, which resulted in palpitations and hyperventilation, | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
dizziness. Her blood sugar was somewhat low, so we provided some | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
extra sugar to try and increase that. But these, obviously, are the | :25:36. | :25:43. | |
cases that we get, because of all the trauma that they have gone | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
through with their travels. She has been travelling for two months now. | :25:47. | :25:56. | |
So we need a lot more volunteers, a lot more physicians to cope, | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
nurses, just to cope with the amount of refugees coming here during the | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
winter months, because that is what the estimation is. With the weather | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
changing, it is very important that we are Paul Davies ulcers of people | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
ready to go with that. -- that we have all the resources | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
and people to go with that. From women who beat their | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
boyfriends, to drunken brawlers, to girl gangs, a rising number | :26:24. | :26:25. | |
of women are involved in violence. Last month video posted online | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
showed girls fighting at a brawl in East London with more than 200 | :26:29. | :26:30. | |
teenagers gathered to watch. In Belfast, a fight between two | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
girls was organised on social media and became a spectator event | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
for the city's teenagers. It contradicts the portrayal | :26:37. | :26:38. | |
of girls involved in gang life who, over the years, have often been | :26:39. | :26:40. | |
described as victims, forced to hide weapons | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
and carry drugs. With one in five of all violent | :26:44. | :26:44. | |
crimes and a third of domestic violence incidents | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
reported to the England and Wales Crime Survey involving | :26:48. | :26:49. | |
a female perpetrator, are some young women choosing | :26:50. | :26:51. | |
more violent lifestyles? That's the theme of a BBC Three | :26:52. | :26:53. | |
documentary tonight. They spoke | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
to two former girl gangers Then next year, | :26:58. | :26:59. | |
everybody is on knives, and then next year, | :27:00. | :27:18. | |
everybody is on guns and then the next year, | :27:19. | :27:20. | |
little kids have Tasers. They can electrocute you, | :27:21. | :27:22. | |
and you will be knocked out, and then in that little time you're | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
sleeping you could be slapped. You could be taken away. | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
You don't know. Of course, you're going to | :27:31. | :27:32. | |
have to carry a weapon, like. What everyone needs to understand | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
as well is that everyone has soldiers behind them, | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
so don't ever think when they're having an argument with one person | :27:40. | :27:41. | |
that it's only that one person. You're having an arguement | :27:42. | :27:44. | |
with the whole crew. They describe one fight | :27:45. | :27:46. | |
between rival gangs where people were left | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
with life-changing injuries. Someone getting hammered | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
in the head. I think that was | :27:56. | :27:57. | |
the most serious one. Her head was just moving a lot, | :27:58. | :27:59. | |
and from nowhere, she got hit with the hammer, so I'm | :28:00. | :28:02. | |
assuming she was giving it the mouth and the attitude that didn't need | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
to be brought to the scene, and then she just got hammered. | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
Did they deserve a hammering? They didn't deserve a hammer, | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
but they had weapons. So the way I look at it, | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
if we didn't go with no weapons obviously, we went with a bit of | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
weapons, but right if we didn't go with no weapons or take weapons from | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
them, we would have been the victims No, do you know | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
why I don't think of them? Because obviously I apologise | :28:29. | :28:35. | |
for what happened to them, but why I don't think of them is because | :28:36. | :28:38. | |
I had to go to jail for them... No, you had to go to jail | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
because of what you did. Of what I did, fair enough, | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
but like I don't know yeah, I don't want to sound rude like, | :28:46. | :28:52. | |
but that's this is... why I'm patching my words | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
because they started it. They got hurt and we went to jail. | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
But why did you start it? This is what I mean? | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
It makes us look bad again. who used to be the leader | :29:05. | :29:06. | |
of a girl gang in London. Cherie Johnson turned her back | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
on crime and now runs Shared Intense Support, which helps | :29:12. | :29:13. | |
young women escape gangs. And Nadine Woodley also works | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
with young women Tracey, you described yourself as | :29:21. | :29:34. | |
the baddest girl in Brixton. OK, people took it the wrong way, I | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
didn't mean like I was the most naughty, most of violent person and | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
no-one could mess with me. I used to do a lot of crimes that boys did, | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
no-one could mess with me. I used to and girls were not doing that at the | :29:49. | :29:48. | |
time. Why did you get into and girls were not doing that at the | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
had a really bad childhood, I believe that children are | :29:55. | :29:57. | |
by-products of their environment, and mine was out of sync, my mother | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
was a manic depressive, my father was convicted on a life term for | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
rape, all sorts went on in was convicted on a life term for | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
house. So you had no guidance. Well, even though Mum wasn't well, not | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
mentally well, she tried to keep me in hand. She didn't leave me to just | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
do what I want, I used to get the odd slap and whatnot, she did try. | :30:21. | :30:26. | |
So did you effectively choose this lifestyle? It is still | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
So did you effectively choose this that shocks, in spite of the | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
statistics we were talking about, women and | :30:33. | :30:42. | |
statistics we were talking about, a shock element when women do it, | :30:43. | :30:44. | |
the question of whether they are actively choosing a violent | :30:45. | :30:45. | |
lifestyle. actively choosing a violent | :30:46. | :30:45. | |
you, I did actively choosing a violent | :30:46. | :30:51. | |
from what was happening at home. Me committing crime | :30:52. | :30:53. | |
from what was happening at home. Me that I thrived on, and it may be | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
made me forget that I thrived on, and it may be | :30:57. | :30:58. | |
was 15, I was young, but I loved I had a warped mentality. Where | :30:59. | :31:01. | |
frightened of you? How I had a warped mentality. Where | :31:02. | :31:20. | |
would you have drawn the line in terms of what you would have done? I | :31:21. | :31:28. | |
haven't killed anyone. I am not a murderer, I don't have anyone's | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
blood on my hands, but my mind was warped. What sort of things did | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
blood on my hands, but my mind was do? The stabbed my sister. How old | :31:38. | :31:47. | |
were you? How old was she? She is nine years younger than me. When | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
people ask me in interviews because I have done interviews before, | :31:52. | :31:52. | |
people ask me in interviews because remorseful? I'm like if only you | :31:53. | :32:00. | |
knew. The people closest to me are the people I harmed. I have to live | :32:01. | :32:03. | |
with that every day. It is hard. the people I harmed. I have to live | :32:04. | :32:15. | |
I was a good manipulator. I was fully aware of what I was getting | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
myself involved in and I thrived off the power that came with it. When | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
you say you were a good manipulator, tell us what you mean? I could | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
easily install fear into people, I could coerce people into doing | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
things I wanted them to do. I was good at delegating and generally | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
organising stuff that had to be organised. You sound like a criminal | :32:38. | :32:45. | |
mastermind? Is that how you saw it? Not really. I was just adapt to go | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
my environment. So I have always been raised around a lot of male | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
family members or friends and I noticed they had that trait. They | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
were always good at delegating and leading and manipulating so I | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
learned that quite early and use that had to um power myself as | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
opposed to at the time becoming a victim. So what sort of things did | :33:07. | :33:12. | |
you do? Or did you tell others to do? | :33:13. | :33:18. | |
Some of the things you don't want it speak about because it is so | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
embarrassing. I am a mum now. Some of the things I wish I hadn't done, | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
but it could be stuff as organising big drug deals, making sure cash was | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
delivered. Mabelinging sure that those in the hierarchy weren't in | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
the limelight, having peoplen a lower standard doing the work and | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
making sure that my team and those high up are safe and not in the | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
limelight. When you say it is embarrassing? Well, it is | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
embarrassing when you look back at your behaviour as a teenager and now | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
you have got more understanding, you have gone into the world and you | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
have seen things and you might have children, you might be exposed to | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
education, etcetera, it gives you a different perception on what's right | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
and what's wrong. As well as knowing what's right and what's wrong | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
because your parents install that in you in from I don't think, it is | :34:11. | :34:13. | |
just embarrassing talking about the things you did when you are young | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
because you don't want to be paint with that brush anymore. None of | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
those skills will help me to empower myself now. It is embarrassing. When | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
did your perception of what you were doing change? You always know. No | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
matter what background you're from, your parents always teach you right | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
from wrong irrespective of what they are going through. You are always | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
aware, but for me, the big wake-up call was when I was 18, when I was | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
in a relationship and my daughter had come along, for me, that was | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
just the breaking point. It was no more. It was non negotiatable | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
irrespective of what I would lose, it was non negotiatable. How long | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
had you been doing the sort of things you were involved in? My | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
family were billion known. It has always been there. It is not a | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
matter of making the switch, it is just identifying the correct path at | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
the right timement you come to a point in your life and it is like, | :35:14. | :35:21. | |
"Do I carry on this way or carry on as a normal civilian?" That hit me | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
at 18 and it was time to change. What's your perception of women | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
choosing a violent lifestyle, is it a choice? Well, part of it is a | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
choice in the sense of like these two ladies said, you know, I know | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
what it is that I'm doing when I go out there or when I'm hitting | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
another person. However, I just think that a lot of young people are | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
exposed to a lot of different things out there these days and what we | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
have to remember, what these two ladies said they were young at the | :35:50. | :35:56. | |
time and what you are influenced around at that age, your brain has | :35:57. | :35:59. | |
not matured to a point for you to be making the right decisions. In the | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
line of work we do, we have to have supervision where you understand the | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
work you're actually doing and scientifically our brain is not | :36:07. | :36:09. | |
fully developed until we are about 25 to make the right decisions. | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
While we are expecting 15-year-olds, 14-year-olds to know what they are | :36:15. | :36:16. | |
doing when they are seeing violence on the TV every single day, they are | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
seeing it on their estates, you know, when I was younger, hearing of | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
people dying was more elderly people. You knew someone's grandma | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
died. Now, I work with young people and they tell me their friend has | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
been stabbed and they are coming to school and having to suppress the | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
feelings. Underneath any form of anger is hurt, whether it is a male | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
or a female and it is about understanding what the core issues | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
underneath that are affecting young people. The clip we saw, the young | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
girls, they are living in fear. That's why they went to that | :36:52. | :36:54. | |
situation with weapons because they are living in fear. We have got | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
young people that have never moved outside the area or crossed the | :36:58. | :37:00. | |
street because in their mind, something is going to happen to | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
them. So therefore, what they are trying to do is take the situations | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
in their own hands before they then get attacked. Now, with young | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
female, I'd say, women are like onions, there is lots of layers to | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
us and basically, we are emotional creatures anyway. We have our | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
growing pains. We have our monthly cycle and on top of that, you have | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
got how you're trying to fit in the world, you have got social media and | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
all the other stuff on top and as women, you know, we're fighting to | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
get paid the same, we're fighting to get noticed the same or in terms of | :37:36. | :37:42. | |
image. When you look at young people, that's a lot of stuff on | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
their brain that they're having to deal with at a young age and they | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
are having to grow up a lot quicker and that's causing them to agent | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
outment I didn't go out on to the streets and get involved in crime, | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
but I was an extremely angry teenager and if someone said | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
something to me it wouldn't take me two minute to say punch them in the | :38:02. | :38:08. | |
face. They don't punch. If someone steps into your personal space and | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
as the youngsters call it, they feel violated, if someone puts their hand | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
on you your natural reaction to is to hit back. For some, it is a | :38:19. | :38:25. | |
natural reaction. Some people go home and self-harm, some people | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
bully others, some people lash out at their parents. Self-harm is not | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
an option. I did try self-harm one time, no joy. The amount of girls, | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
young people, at this, sorry, in this age, that are self-harming is | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
massive. Whereas once upon a time you had young girls self-harming and | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
you didn't know, you could go to school and their tops would be like | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
this and you could see it. How can they be going to school and people | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
can see they are self-harming? What happened to that energy? I worked | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
with young girls at 11 they said they might have been sexually abused | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
at home and the school is wondering why at 16 they have turned into a | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
monster, but all we are concerned with they are not following Ofsted | :39:12. | :39:19. | |
or behaving right in school. That gets transferred on to the streets, | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
you get an opportunity to lash out. What might have made things | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
different for either of you, do you think? Where do we start? The first | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
one, I guess, so coming from my organisation's prospective is having | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
the resources to reach out to these women because these women are hidden | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
to the untrained eye, but to our eyes, they stand out from a far. We | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
can identify them from afar. First of all, it is having the resources | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
because it is all good us being here, being able to deliver and | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
lead, but without the correct resources, we can't access the women | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
and deliver the support. What sort of things can you do for a young | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
girl who is fooling the emotion that is we are hearing about and growing | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
up in a tough environment and feeling the need to protect | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
themselves and that seems to be the only way? Can you take someone like, | :40:06. | :40:13. | |
short of taking someone out of the environment, what can be done? You | :40:14. | :40:16. | |
have got to change their perception of themselves and the environment | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
that they are in and you have got to empower them and try and give them | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
options to make educated decisions. So if I talk with a young person, I | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
say to them, you know, I'm not going to say, "No, don't do that." I will | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
say, "This is the consequence of that." This is the outcome of that. | :40:33. | :40:39. | |
Do you want this as your outcome? That's what no one is telling them. | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
Young kids are more likely to take on board what you say if you have | :40:44. | :40:51. | |
had that lifestyle. People like us, they take us in. We speak from the | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
heart. They understand. When you are a teenager, your emotions are | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
heightened. Falling out with your best friend is massive. 24 hours not | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
talking to your friend and with girls in groups, if we were in a | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
group and we went to a girl's school and you weren't speaking to me and | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
you made these two not speak to me, that's a long week. That's silently | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
violent because no one is speaking to me for the whole entire week. | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
Next week, I need to get my friends back. So I'm going to aggress you so | :41:23. | :41:25. | |
these come on back. So I'm going to aggress you so | :41:26. | :41:35. | |
mixing with. How difficult is that? I don't think | :41:36. | :41:35. | |
all. Do you have to have a completely new set of people... | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
all. Do you have to have a have got to fight from within. | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
You're born have got to fight from within. | :41:47. | :41:46. | |
reason. Kids do know what they are have got to fight from within. | :41:47. | :41:52. | |
doing. Did you do it yourself or did someone sort of... You do it | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
yourself. For me, it was doing it yourself. Me personally, it is about | :41:58. | :42:06. | |
resocialising. I resocialised my whole entire friends. The thing | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
resocialising. I resocialised my about reformed, it doesn't just | :42:10. | :42:09. | |
happen, and it stops, it is an about reformed, it doesn't just | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
going process, sometimes it might be a life process, there are trigger | :42:15. | :42:16. | |
factors. There might be a life process, there are trigger | :42:17. | :42:19. | |
we are used to that can set things off. It is about changing | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
we are used to that can set things social network and re-positioning | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
yourself with positive people. If we were to meet a few years | :42:26. | :42:27. | |
yourself with positive people. If we would not abpositive relationship. | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
Now, we can align ourselves and deliver something really powerful. | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
We were from two rival boroughs, but we come with a different purpose and | :42:37. | :42:39. | |
because of our strong leadership qualities we can drive force a big | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
message. When you think about girl gangs and things, do they know what | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
they are really fighting about? Do they know what's behind what they | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
are trying to keep up and carry on? Even boys. Do you understand why the | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
whole postcode rivalry came from? Thank you for coming in. Thank you | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
thoughts with us. The Home Office thoughts with us. The Home Office | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
told us that they are taking action thoughts with us. The Home Office | :43:06. | :43:14. | |
a network of over 80 experts with experience of dealing with gangs and | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
drug dealing and they are providing ?1.6 million of funding for 13 young | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
drug dealing and they are providing support to women and girls. You can | :43:26. | :43:27. | |
watch the special documentary looking at the rise of female | :43:28. | :43:35. | |
9pm. Thank you for your company today and | :43:36. | :43:36. | |
for your messages. Tomorrow, we Thank you for your company today and | :43:37. | :43:38. | |
be hearing from the woman who Thank you for your company today and | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
exposed a bogus landlord by inviting him on a date. | :43:46. | :43:48. | |
We will see you tomorrow. Have a lovely day. Bye-bye. | :43:49. | :44:02. | |
MUSIC: Boombastic by Shaggy | :44:03. | :44:04. |