10/11/2015 Victoria Derbyshire


10/11/2015

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Hello it's Tuesday, it's 9.15, I'm Joanna Gosling,

:00:13.:00:16.

The mum of a boy who died in hospital after

:00:17.:00:23.

a catastrophic failure tells us how she can never trust a doctor again.

:00:24.:00:27.

We'll speak to Nicola Adcock in her first BBC interview after a doctor

:00:28.:00:30.

was found guilty of the manslaughter by gross negligence of her son Jack.

:00:31.:00:34.

David Cameron says EU reform is not an impossible task.

:00:35.:00:36.

The Prime Minister is setting out his plans to renegotiate

:00:37.:00:38.

And could Russian athletes really be banned from next year's

:00:39.:00:46.

Hello and welcome to the programme - we're on BBC Two and the BBC News

:00:47.:01:06.

As we go on air this morning, the Prime Minister is talking

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about why he thinks the European Union should be reformed.

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He started talking a few minutes ago and we will

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David Cameron says he is committed to negotiating a "better deal" with

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the EU before a referendum in 2017 which will allow us to decide

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if we should stay or leave the union.

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Mr Cameron has said he wants the UK to stay in a reformed EU, but he has

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not ruled out leaving if he cannot secure the change he wants.

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So this morning he is revealing a number of key points he wants to

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Protection of the single market for Britain

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Exempting Britain from "ever-closer union" and bolstering

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Restricting EU migrants' access to in-work benefits.

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We'll get some reaction from our political guru Norman Smith.

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But let's just see what else David Cameron has to say.

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We know that the bedrock of our Security is a strong economy.

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Something any nation must have to succeed in the 21st century. It is

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also why, despite all the pressures on the public finances, we have

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guaranteed to spend 2% on defence and 0.7% of our gross national

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income on overseas aid. With that money we are able to equip our Armed

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Forces with two brand-new aircraft carriers, double our fleet of

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drones, buy new fighter aircraft and submarines as well as investing in

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our special forces. We are doing all of these things to protect our

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economic and national interests. That is the prism through which I

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approach our membership of the European Union. Taking the tough

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decisions, making the difficult arguments, addressing the issues

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that no-one wants to talk about and protecting and advancing our

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economic and national security. Like most British people, I come to this

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question with a frame of mind which is practical not emotional, had not

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hard. I know that some of our European partners may find that

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disappointing about Britain, at that is who we are, that is how we have

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always been as a nation. Rigorously practical, obstinately

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down-to-earth, we are natural debunkers. We see the European Union

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as a means to an end, not an end in itself. Europe where necessary,

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national where possible, as our Dutch friends put it. Away to

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amplify our national prosperity, like Nato or the IMF. We understand

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that there is a close relationship between the security and prosperity

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of the continent to which our island is tied geographically and our own

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security and prosperity. In the week when we commemorate the end of the

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Great War, and in the year when we have marked the 70th anniversary of

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the liberation of Europe, how can we not? Britain has contributed in full

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measure to the freedom that Europe's nations enjoy today. Across

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the continent, in stone cold cemeteries, lie the remains of

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British servicemen who crossed the Channel to help subjugated nations

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throw off the tyrant's yoke and return liberty to her rightful place

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on what Churchill called this noble continent. We continue to play our

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full role in security, globally, fighting Ebola in West Africa,

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flying policing missions over the fighting Ebola in West Africa,

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Nato operations in Europe, saving lives

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Nato operations in Europe, saving smuggling rings in the

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Mediterranean, spending ?1.1 billion smuggling rings in the

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on aid to Syria, Lebanon and Jordan - more than any other European

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nation. Britain has always been an engaged nation, because we know that

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engagement is the best way to protect and advance our economic and

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national security. So today, as we confront fresh threats

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national security. So today, as we to our country, I am in no doubt

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that for to our country, I am in no doubt

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question is not just a matter of economic security, but of national

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security, too. Not just a matter of jobs and trade, but of the safety

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and security of our nation. Equally, when Europe and the European Union

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accounts for almost half of our trade, it matters for our economic

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security that the European Union is competitive and succeeds in

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promoting prosperity for its members. Just as it

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promoting prosperity for its that while we are not part

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promoting prosperity for its euro, and in my view never will be,

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the Eurozone is able to deal with its problems and to succeed. If it

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fails to do so, we will certainly not be immune from the

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side-effects. That is why almost three years ago I set out the case

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for reform, reform which will benefit Britain and in my view the

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entire EU. I was clear that Britain gains advantages

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entire EU. I was clear that Britain of the EU. But I was also clear that

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there are some of the EU. But I was also clear that

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need to be addressed. Lytic of the EU. But I was also clear that

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leadership team confronting these problems, not wishing them away. If

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we ignore them, history teaches us they will only

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we ignore them, history teaches us explain what I mean. In my Bloomberg

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speech, almost three years ago, I said the European Union faced three

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major challenges. First heard all the problems in the Eurozone which

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need to be fixed, requiring fundamental changes. Second, a

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crisis of European competitiveness, as other nations across the world

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race ahead and Europe risks being left behind. Third, the gap between

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the EU and its citizens, which has grown dramatically in recent years,

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and which represents a lack of democratic accountability and

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consent which is felt acutely in Britain. These three challenges are

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as critical now as when I first set them out. Today I would add a

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fourth. As we have seen spectacularly across Europe with the

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questions posed by the migration crisis, countries need greater

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controls to manage the pressures of people coming in. While in Britain

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we are not part of the Schengen no borders agreement and so we have

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been able to set out our own approach and take refugees by Ripley

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from the camps, we do need some additional measures to address wider

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abuses of the right to free movement within Europe and to reduce the very

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high flow of people coming to Britain from across all of Europe.

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So the changes we are arguing for our substantial, but they have a

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very clear purpose - to address the four key challenges which are vital

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to his access of the European Union and to maintain and advance the

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UK's economic and national security within it. Let me explain each of

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them in turn. First, it is in all of our interests for the Eurozone to

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have the right governance and struck choose to secure successful currency

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for the long-term. -- structures. Written understands that and we will

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not stand in the way of those developments as long as we can be

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sure that there are mechanisms in place to make sure that our candy

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interests are fully protected. There are today two sorts of members of

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the European Union. Euro members and non-euro members. The changes which

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the Eurozone will need to implement will have profound implications for

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both types of member. Non-euro members like Britain which are

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outside the Eurozone need certain safeguards in order to protect the

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single market and our ability to decide its rules and to make sure

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that we face neither discrimination nor additional costs from the

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integration of the Eurozone. Because the European Union and the Eurozone

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are not the same thing. Those of us brought in the EU but outside the

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Eurozone need that accepted. We need a model which works for Britain and

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for any other non-euro members. This should be perfectly possible. The

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European Union is a family of democratic nations whose original

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foundation was and remains the common market. There is no reason

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why the single currency and the single market should share the same

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boundary any more than the single market and Schengen. So the EU needs

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flexibility to accommodate both of those inside and outside the

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Eurozone. Both those who are contemplating much closer economic

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and political integration and those countries like Britain which will

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never embrace that goal. This is a matter of cardinal importance for

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the United Kingdom. Because if the European Union were to evolve into a

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single currency club, where those outside the single currency are

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pushed aside and overruled, then it would no longer be a club for us. We

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need this issue fixed so that the UK is not obliged to fight a series of

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running battles which would only corrode trust amongst member states.

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We have to make sure that there is appointed to being in the EU but in

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the Eurozone and that that position does not turn a country into a brawl

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taker instead of a rule maker. And now is the time to do that. As part

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of our negotiation, I am asking European leaders to meet clear and

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binding principles which protect Britain and other non-euro countries

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and a safeguard mechanism to make sure those principles are respected

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and enforce. Those principles should include the following. Recognition

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that the EU is a union with more than one currency, that there should

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be no discrimination and disadvantage for any business on the

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basis of the currency of their country. That the integrity of the

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single market must be protected. That as the Eurozone moves ahead,

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any changes it decides to make, the creation of a banking union for

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instance, must be voluntary for non-Europeans is, never compulsory.

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That taxpayers in non-euro countries should never bear the cost for

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operations to support the euro as a currency. And that just as financial

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stability and supervision has become a key area of competence for the

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Eurozone, institutions like the ECB, so, financial stability and

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supervision is also a key area of competence for national institutions

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like the Bank of England for non-euro members. And of course,

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that any issues which affect all member states must be discussed and

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decided by all member states. Second, we want a European Union

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which adds to our competitiveness, not detracts from it. We have

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already made good progress here since my speech at Bloomberg.

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Agility of proposals under the new commission have fallen by 18%, with

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more regulation set to be repealed this year than in the whole of the

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previous commission. We have proposals for a M its union which

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will help get finance into the hands of entrepreneurs and growing

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businesses. The new pounds to deepen the single market in digital will

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mean new opportunities for millions of British businesses to operate

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more easily anywhere in Europe. Changes we secured just last month

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will mean that British tourists will no longer incur roaming charges when

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using mobile phones or have to pay extortionate credit card fees. Just

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last month the European Commission published a new trade strategy which

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reflects the agenda which Britain has been championing for years,

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including pursuing massive trade deals with America, China, Japan and

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RCM. We know the benefits free trade can bring. Recent deals including

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one with career are already saving UK consumers ?5 billion every year.

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They have helped UK car exports for instance to Korea increase fivefold.

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There is much more we can do. For all that we have achieved in

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stemming the flow of new regulations, the burden from

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existing regulation is still too high. Two years ago we secured the

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first ever real terms cut in the EU budget. It is now time to do the

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same with EU regulation. So we need a target to cut the total burden on

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business. At the same time we need to bring together all the different

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proposals, promises and agreements on the single market, on trade, on

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cutting regulation, all together into one clear commitment which

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rights competitiveness into the DNA of the whole European Union. Third,

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we need to deal with the disillusionment which many of

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Europe's citizens feel towards the European Union as an institution.

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These concerns are not just in Britain but Stross and perhaps

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greater here than anywhere else in the European Union today. We have

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already passed a law to guarantee that no powers can transfer from

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Britain to Brussels ever again without the explicit consent of the

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British people in a referendum. But if Britain is to remain in the EU,

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we need to do more. It boil stand to this. We are a proud, independent

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nation. We intend to stay that way. So we need to be honest about this.

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Commit and in the treaty to an ever closer union is not a commitment

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which should apply any longer to Britain. We do not believe in it, we

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do not subscribe to it. We have a different vision for Europe. We

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believe in a flexible union of free member states who share treaties and

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institutions, working together in a spirit of co-operation to advance

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our shared prosperity and protect our people from threats to security

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weather from home or abroad. And of course continuing in time and only

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with unanimous agreement to welcome new countries into the EU. This

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vision of flexibility and co-operation is not the same as

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those who want to build an ever closer political union, but it is

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just as valid. If we can't persuade our European partners to share this

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vision for all, we certainly need to find a way to allow this vision to

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shape Britain selling the Bishop. I can tell you today that as part of

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our renegotiation I am asking European leaders for a clear,

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legally binding and irreversible agreement to end Britain's

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obligation to work towards an ever closer union. It will mean Britain

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can never be entangled in a political union against our will all

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be drawn into any kind of United States of Europe.

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We need to ensure that while the European Parliament plays an

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important role, there is a more significant role for national

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parliaments including our own Parliament right here in

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Westminster. It is national parliaments which are and will

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remain the main source of real democratically jit Massey and

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accountability inside the EU. It is to the British Parliament that I

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must account on the EU budget negotiations or on safeguarding our

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place in the single market. Those are the parliaments which instil

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respect, even fear, into national leaders. So it is time to give these

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national parliaments a greater say over EU law making. Now, we're not

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suggesting a veto for every single national Parliament. We acknowledge

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that in a Europe of 28 that would mean gridlock, but we want to see a

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new arrangement where groups of national parliaments can come

:16:55.:16:57.

together and reject European laws which are not in their national

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interest. We need to address the issue of sub sidarty. We believe if

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powers don't need to reside in Brussels, they should be

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automatically returned to Westminster. We want to see the EU's

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commitment to this fully implemented with clear proposals to achieve

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that. In addition the UK will need confirmation that the EU

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institutions will fully respect the purpose behind the justice and home

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affairs protocols in any future proposals dealing with justice and

:17:28.:17:31.

home affairs matters. In particular, to preserve the UK's ability to

:17:32.:17:38.

choose to participate. In addition, national security is and must remain

:17:39.:17:44.

the sole responsibility of member States while recognising the

:17:45.:17:46.

benefits of working together on issues that affect the security of

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us all. Finally, in this area, people are also frustrated by some

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legal judgements made in Europe that impact on life in Britain. Now, of

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course, this relates as much to the European Convention on Human Rights

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as the European Union which is why we need to act on both fronts. So we

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will reform our relationship with the ECHR by scrapping Labour's Human

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Rights Act and introducing a new British Bill of Rights. We will, of

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course, consult on how to make this big constitutional change. The

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consultation we will publish will set out our plan to remain

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consistent with the founding principles of the convention, while

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restoring the proper role of UK courts and our Parliament. And as we

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reform the relationship between our courts and Strasbourg, it is also

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right we consider the role of the European Court of Justice and the

:18:38.:18:41.

Charter of Fundamental Rights. So as was agreed at the time of the Lisbon

:18:42.:18:45.

Treaty, we will enshrine in our domestic law that the EU Charter of

:18:46.:18:49.

Fundamental Rights does not create any new rights. We will make it our

:18:50.:18:53.

explicit to our courts that they cannot use the EU charter as the

:18:54.:18:59.

basis for any new legal challenge citing spurious hue Human Rights

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grounds. We will examine whether we can go one step further. We need to

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examine the way that Germany and other EU nations uphold their

:19:08.:19:12.

constitution and sovereignty. For example, the constitutional court in

:19:13.:19:17.

Germany retains the right to review whether essential constitutional

:19:18.:19:20.

freedoms are respected when powers are transferred to Europe and it

:19:21.:19:23.

reserves the right to review legal acts by the European institutions

:19:24.:19:27.

and the courts to check that they remain within the scope of the EU's

:19:28.:19:31.

powers. Or whether they have overstepped the mark. Now, we will

:19:32.:19:35.

consider how this could be done in the United Kingdom. Now, fourth, we

:19:36.:19:41.

believe in an open economy. But we've got to be able to cope with

:19:42.:19:45.

all the pressures that free movement can bring on our schools, our

:19:46.:19:51.

hospitals, and our public services. Right now, the pressures are too

:19:52.:19:55.

great. Now, I appreciate that at a time when other European countries

:19:56.:20:00.

are facing huge pressure from migration, outside the EU, this

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maybe hard for some other EU countries to understand. But in a

:20:03.:20:07.

way, these pressures are an example of exactly the point that the UK has

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been making in recent years. For us, it is not a question of race or

:20:13.:20:17.

background or ethnicity, Britain is one of the most open and

:20:18.:20:20.

cosmopolitan countries on the face of the earth. People from all over

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the world can find a community of their own right here in Britain. The

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issue is one of scale and speed and the pressures on communities that

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brings and at a time when public finances are already under severe

:20:35.:20:37.

strain as a consequence of the financial crisis. Now, this was a

:20:38.:20:41.

matter of enormous concern in our recent general election campaign.

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And it remains so today. And unlike some other member states, Britain's

:20:47.:20:50.

population is already expanding. Our population is set to reach over 70

:20:51.:20:55.

million in the next decades and we're forecast to become the most

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pop ulis country in the EU by 2050. At the same time, our next migration

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is running at over 300,000 a year. That is not sustainable. We've taken

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lots of steps to control immigration from outside the EU, but we need to

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be able to exert greater control on arrivals from inside the EU too. The

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principle of free movement of labour is a basic treaty right and a key

:21:20.:21:24.

part of the single market. Over one million Brits benefit from their

:21:25.:21:27.

right to live and work anywhere in the EU. We don't want to destroy

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that principle which indeed many Brits take for granted, but freedom

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of movement has never been an unqualified right and we need to

:21:37.:21:40.

allow to operate on a more sustainable basis in the light of

:21:41.:21:43.

the experience of recent years. Britain has always been an open,

:21:44.:21:47.

trading nation. We don't want to change that, but we do want to find

:21:48.:21:52.

arrangements to allow a member state like the UK to restore a sense of

:21:53.:21:56.

fairness to our immigration system and to reduce the currently very

:21:57.:22:00.

high level of migration from within the EU into the UK. Now, that means

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first of all, correcting the mistakes of the past by making sure

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that we are when new countries are admit to the EU, free movement will

:22:13.:22:17.

not apply to those countries until their economies have converged more

:22:18.:22:20.

closely with existing member states. We need to cre at the toughest

:22:21.:22:23.

possible system for dealing with the abuse of free movement. That

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includes tougher and longer re-entry bans for from youedsters and people

:22:28.:22:34.

who collude in sham marriages, it is easier for an EU citizen to bring a

:22:35.:22:38.

non-EU spouse to Britain than it is for a British citizen to do the same

:22:39.:22:43.

thing. It means stronger powers to deport criminals and stop them

:22:44.:22:46.

coming back, as well as preventing entry in the first place, it means

:22:47.:22:50.

addressing judgements that widened the scope of free movement if a way

:22:51.:22:53.

that made it much more difficult to tackle this sort of abuse. But

:22:54.:22:57.

ultimately, if we're going to reduce the numbers coming here, we need

:22:58.:23:02.

action that gives greater control of migration from the EU. As I have

:23:03.:23:07.

said previously, we can do this by reducing the draw that our welfare

:23:08.:23:12.

system can exert across Europe. To those who say this won't make a

:23:13.:23:16.

difference, I say, look at the figures. We know that at any one

:23:17.:23:22.

time, around 40% of all recent European Economic Area migrants are

:23:23.:23:26.

supported by the UK benefit system. With each family claiming on average

:23:27.:23:32.

around ?6,000 a year of ininn work benefits alone and over 10,000

:23:33.:23:36.

recently arrived families claiming over ?10,000 a year. We need to

:23:37.:23:43.

restore a sense of fairness and reduce this pull pack for subsidised

:23:44.:23:47.

by the taxpayer. I promised four actions at the general election. Two

:23:48.:23:51.

of them have already been achieved. EU migrants will not be able to

:23:52.:23:54.

claim Universal Credit while looking for work and if those coming from

:23:55.:23:59.

the EU haven't found work within six months, they can be required to

:24:00.:24:04.

leave. But we need to go further to reduce the numbers coming here. So

:24:05.:24:08.

we've proposed that people coming to Britain from the EU, must live here

:24:09.:24:12.

and contribute for four years before they qualify for in work benefits or

:24:13.:24:16.

social housing. And that we should end the practise of sending child

:24:17.:24:21.

benefit overseas. Now, I understand how difficult some of these welfare

:24:22.:24:25.

issues are more other member states and I'm open to different ways of

:24:26.:24:30.

dealing with this issue. But we do need to secure arrangements that

:24:31.:24:34.

deliver on the objectives set out in the Conservative Party manifesto to

:24:35.:24:38.

control migration from the European Union. So these are the four

:24:39.:24:42.

objectives at the heart of our renegotiation. Objective one,

:24:43.:24:47.

protect the single market for Britain and others outside the

:24:48.:24:51.

eurozone. What I mean by that is a set of binding principles that

:24:52.:24:56.

guarantee fairness between euro and non euro countries. Objective two,

:24:57.:25:03.

write competitiveness in into the DNA of the whole European Union,

:25:04.:25:08.

this includes cutting a total burneden on business. Objective

:25:09.:25:13.

three, exempt Britain from an ever closer union and bolster our

:25:14.:25:17.

national parliaments, not through warm words, but through irreversible

:25:18.:25:22.

changes. Objective four, tackle abuses of the right to free movement

:25:23.:25:26.

and enable us to control migration from the European Union in line with

:25:27.:25:32.

our manifesto. The precise... STUDIO: That's the Prime Minister

:25:33.:25:38.

outlining his four key objectives for the European Union ahead of the

:25:39.:25:44.

in-out referendum promised ahead of 2016. He says the decision is the

:25:45.:25:50.

most important for Britain. You can continue to watch that

:25:51.:25:58.

speech from David Cameron online: We will have analysis from Norman

:25:59.:26:00.

Smith later. Should Russia be banned from

:26:01.:26:07.

competing in next summer's Olympics? An independent report commissioned

:26:08.:26:09.

by the World Anti-Doping Agency has recommended that the country's track

:26:10.:26:11.

and field athletes should be barred from world athletics competitions,

:26:12.:26:14.

after their report found evidence of cheating, drug abuse,

:26:15.:26:17.

cover-ups and extortion throughout It also said London 2012 was

:26:18.:26:19.

"sabotaged" by "widespread inaction" against athletes with suspicious

:26:20.:26:26.

doping profiles. The man who led the staging

:26:27.:26:27.

of that event, Lord Sebstian Coe, He says Russia must now

:26:28.:26:30.

respond to the allegations. I have asked the Russian Athletics

:26:31.:26:39.

Federation to answer those I have asked my council

:26:40.:26:41.

colleagues to convene on Friday. Depending upon what we hear

:26:42.:26:47.

in response to those allegations, we will looked at a range

:26:48.:26:50.

of options which include sanctions. When you say "can include

:26:51.:26:56.

sanctions", one of those sanctions It could be the suspension

:26:57.:26:59.

of Russia. If there are frailties

:27:00.:27:02.

in our anti-doping systems, If there are corporate governances

:27:03.:27:04.

that should have been in place, particularly

:27:05.:27:10.

around the criminal allegations that were made at the beginning of the

:27:11.:27:13.

week, we will fix those as well. Dick Pound has called on Russia

:27:14.:27:17.

to voluntarily suspend itself. What is your message to Russia

:27:18.:27:19.

about what it should do now? That may well be the case

:27:20.:27:24.

when our council reviews what it has been told by the Russian athletics

:27:25.:27:28.

Federation at the end of the week. Can you clarify,

:27:29.:27:36.

that they may well voluntarily...? Britain's Paula Radcliffe said she

:27:37.:27:51.

is surprised at the scale of the doping.

:27:52.:27:54.

I was devastated, shocked at the level and the depth and the audacity

:27:55.:28:00.

have got away with it for so long and angry on behalf of my sport at

:28:01.:28:04.

the damage that has been done to athletics by this.

:28:05.:28:09.

I really do think that action has to be taken.

:28:10.:28:21.

out and discovering the scale and the depth of it.

:28:22.:28:24.

Also I think, we need to stress that it is really bad,

:28:25.:28:26.

We have managed to discover it and it now needs to be taken forward

:28:27.:28:32.

in such a way that we can start restoring that faith in athletics.

:28:33.:28:43.

are competing on a level playing field and that fingers aren't going

:28:44.:28:49.

Here with me is former world champ ston Steve scam cram. Paula

:28:50.:29:04.

Radcliffe said she was shocked. How did you feel about it? I was shocked

:29:05.:29:08.

at the kind of depth of the involvement of all aspects of

:29:09.:29:12.

Russian sport, not just involvement of all aspects of

:29:13.:29:17.

Government level. I think the independent commission have done a

:29:18.:29:18.

fantastic job of independent commission have done a

:29:19.:29:23.

really been able to in the past and getting people to talk to them in a

:29:24.:29:26.

way, which des spite, I am getting people to talk to them in a

:29:27.:29:32.

amount of fear around the environment there, they have

:29:33.:29:34.

uncovered, at all levels there is athletes who were cheating

:29:35.:29:40.

and coaches who are asking them and helping

:29:41.:29:41.

and coaches who are asking them and administrators who are turning a

:29:42.:29:46.

blind eye to that and then a an accredited lab which has not been

:29:47.:29:52.

conducting the proper tests or when the proper tests and not making them

:29:53.:29:55.

public and that's been the proper tests and not making them

:29:56.:29:58.

within their sporting system and the proper tests and not making them

:29:59.:30:01.

seems as though there have been a certain

:30:02.:30:05.

seems as though there have been a the athletes who have positive tests

:30:06.:30:08.

seems as though there have been a leading back to the

:30:09.:30:10.

seems as though there have been a will make sure if you pay us, we

:30:11.:30:15.

will speak to the IAAF and see if you can get you off

:30:16.:30:18.

will speak to the IAAF and see if sanctions. It is the depth of that

:30:19.:30:21.

that's been the shock. No shock that people in Russia are cheating back

:30:22.:30:26.

inn athletics. You can go back to my day in the 70s and 80, I don't think

:30:27.:30:29.

anyone would be shocked to find that out, but it is the depth of it that

:30:30.:30:35.

I think the ultimate sanction of not leave Russian athletics now?

:30:36.:30:44.

I think the ultimate sanction of not letting them compete is one which

:30:45.:30:47.

has to be looked at. Sebastian Coe I think has given them an ultimatum to

:30:48.:30:51.

either voluntarily come up with their own period of suspension, if

:30:52.:30:56.

you like, away from the world of athletics, until they can do

:30:57.:30:59.

something at least to look as if they are putting their house in

:31:00.:31:02.

order - but that will not be done overnight. As in wider issues. This

:31:03.:31:05.

is just overnight. As in wider issues. This

:31:06.:31:07.

some wider issues within world sport. That laboratory does not just

:31:08.:31:13.

test able in athletics. This commission was only looking at

:31:14.:31:20.

athletics, but that lab will also test footballers, cyclists,

:31:21.:31:25.

swimmers, other people who will compete in the Olympic Games. Even

:31:26.:31:28.

Wada said its own laboratory was not fit for purpose, either. So I think

:31:29.:31:33.

there is a lot of things which need to happen before we can be remotely

:31:34.:31:37.

confident about people representing Russia at whatever sport, but they

:31:38.:31:45.

are doing it in a fair way. It is up to the IOC, rather than the IAAF,

:31:46.:31:52.

but alongside them, they should say at this moment, you cannot come to

:31:53.:31:55.

deal in big games until you change your practices. Do you feel sympathy

:31:56.:32:03.

for Russian athletes? No. If you have been cheating, you have been

:32:04.:32:11.

cheating. It is against them much bigger picture? Well, it is and I

:32:12.:32:17.

think there is a cultural issue as well. There are some clean Russian

:32:18.:32:20.

athletes as well. They are not all cheating. There is always a choice,

:32:21.:32:28.

I think. Some would argue that they are pressured into doing this, but

:32:29.:32:32.

there is a choice. I think obviously once those athletes have been

:32:33.:32:37.

cheating, to then have somebody come back and say, if you want to get off

:32:38.:32:41.

with it, you have got to come up with a couple of hundred thousand

:32:42.:32:45.

dollars, then it is not right at either end. I still do not have

:32:46.:32:48.

sympathy for people who have been cheating in the first place. They

:32:49.:32:52.

have got themselves into that mess. It is always the athletes who end up

:32:53.:32:57.

with the ultimate punishment. The issue for me is, would we be denying

:32:58.:33:06.

people in Russia, let's say, young 16-year-olds who has an ambition to

:33:07.:33:09.

be a great swimmer or cyclist, would we be denying them the chance to

:33:10.:33:13.

become a great athlete in the future? Hopefully not. It has to

:33:14.:33:17.

come from the country they live in. There has to be pressure from within

:33:18.:33:21.

Russia to change practices. I'm not sure that will happen overnight. How

:33:22.:33:27.

much does this taint athletics? For me it is less what has been going on

:33:28.:33:32.

in Russia per se, it is the fact that people within the Russian setup

:33:33.:33:38.

have been able on the face of it to get right into the highest levels of

:33:39.:33:45.

the IAAF. If the allegations are proven to be correct, they have been

:33:46.:33:49.

able to affect the processes. Thankfully I don't think they have

:33:50.:33:54.

been able to affect them in the long-term, but certainly the

:33:55.:33:56.

prevarication around pursuing positive tests in Russia was

:33:57.:34:00.

something which the IAAF cannot allow ever to happen again. I don't

:34:01.:34:07.

think that is necessarily still happening now, but it is a really

:34:08.:34:10.

difficult time for athletics and for the Federation. Seb is in charge, he

:34:11.:34:17.

has got a difficult task. He has got to act really quickly and strongly.

:34:18.:34:20.

He has to take the opportunity which this gives him. There have to be

:34:21.:34:25.

special measures here. In the past, the IAAF is a family of 200-odd

:34:26.:34:33.

athletic nations with voting processes and commissions and

:34:34.:34:36.

committees. I think he has got to bypass a lot of that, given the

:34:37.:34:40.

situation, and make some really tough decisions very, very quickly.

:34:41.:34:47.

Coming up, we have a special report into the antimalarial drug Lariam,

:34:48.:34:50.

which hundreds of service personnel say can cause mental health problems

:34:51.:34:52.

and even suicides. More than one billion pounds could

:34:53.:34:56.

be cut from social care services for older and disabled people in England

:34:57.:34:59.

over the next year, according to council care bosses, leaving tens of

:35:00.:35:02.

thousands facing getting less help with basic tasks like washing,

:35:03.:35:05.

dressing and eating. More than half

:35:06.:35:07.

of disabled people asked by the charity Scope say they don't get

:35:08.:35:09.

enough care to live independently. The charity spoke to over 500 people

:35:10.:35:13.

with disabilities and the work was carried out as part of a grant given

:35:14.:35:17.

to them by the Department of Health. Scope want

:35:18.:35:20.

the Chancellor to promise to spend more money on social services in the

:35:21.:35:23.

Autumn Statement - his mini-budget - We went to meet Susan,

:35:24.:35:26.

who says she's not getting I have a number

:35:27.:35:32.

of health issues which have resulted I have been confined to

:35:33.:35:41.

a wheelchair. I do not feel that

:35:42.:35:47.

the care package that has been offered to me by my local authority

:35:48.:35:51.

is sufficient enough for me to have This is my bedroom, where I spend

:35:52.:35:54.

the majority of my time, especially on bad days, which can last

:35:55.:36:03.

anything from one day to a week. The incontinence problem I have is

:36:04.:36:10.

double incontinence, and that has been the hardest

:36:11.:36:12.

for me to adjust to. My carer's last visit is

:36:13.:36:16.

at ten o'clock at night. After ten o'clock the house is shut

:36:17.:36:19.

up and I do not see the carer until If I have had an accident

:36:20.:36:23.

in the night and I am not able to get out to the bathroom,

:36:24.:36:30.

I'm left lying in a dirty nappy. It is horrible, it is a really

:36:31.:36:35.

horrible and degrading feeling. You feel so helpless

:36:36.:36:42.

because you want to do things for yourself, but unfortunately you

:36:43.:36:46.

are not able to do it. I get four hours care a day

:36:47.:36:49.

and it is not sufficient. I have been told

:36:50.:36:53.

by the local authority my care If my hours need to be increased,

:36:54.:36:56.

I will have to go into a care home. On my bad days,

:36:57.:37:02.

when my bowel plays up, that affects I could sit here and look at these

:37:03.:37:19.

pictures and cry and think, why me? You can't dwell on it because

:37:20.:37:28.

if you start to dwell on it it will I do get very sad

:37:29.:37:33.

when I look back on my life and I think, how can someone who is

:37:34.:37:40.

healthy and fit end up like this? I could have quite honestly taken

:37:41.:37:46.

my own life a couple of years ago. It was getting that bad.

:37:47.:37:50.

I couldn't see any way out. The medication cupboard,

:37:51.:37:52.

call it what you like, but it is It is a bit

:37:53.:37:59.

like a bereavement because you are saying goodbye to the old you,

:38:00.:38:07.

and you become a new you. I would like to go out more,

:38:08.:38:10.

I would like to socialise more, I would like to spend more time

:38:11.:38:18.

in the library perhaps reading books or just reading up things, but

:38:19.:38:21.

again I would need someone with me If something happened and I am out,

:38:22.:38:24.

I am not going to be able to clean I am very concerned

:38:25.:38:31.

about my future with all the changes that are being made to things that

:38:32.:38:44.

are impounded on disabled people. Benefits, care packages,

:38:45.:38:51.

all sorts of different things. I am scared because I don't know

:38:52.:38:53.

what next year is going to bring for me, what is going to be taken

:38:54.:38:57.

away from me this year? We can speak now via webcam to

:38:58.:39:02.

Jo Allen, who suffers She says she is in debt

:39:03.:39:05.

because she doesn't receive enough money from social services to pay

:39:06.:39:15.

for the care she needs each week. Joining us here

:39:16.:39:18.

in the studio is Mark Atkinson, who is the CEO of Scope,

:39:19.:39:20.

and Ray James, who is president of the Association of Directors

:39:21.:39:23.

of Adult Social Services and runs First of all Jo, tell us what care

:39:24.:39:39.

you need? I need care with washing, showering, getting out of bed,

:39:40.:39:44.

toilet, helping preparing food and help with eating. So, lots of care,

:39:45.:39:49.

basically. Have you cut back to the minimum? Absolutely. Mike Carey

:39:50.:39:58.

money, or my hours, have not increased in the last 15 years. --

:39:59.:40:05.

my care money. From January we will have to be paying pension

:40:06.:40:09.

contributions as well. It all has to come from somewhere. So I have had

:40:10.:40:14.

to take out loans to cover those costs, which absolutely terrifies me

:40:15.:40:17.

because there will be a point when I cannot afford to do that any more.

:40:18.:40:21.

Could you reduce the number of hours you have? You have 28 hours a week

:40:22.:40:27.

at the moment. I do, but that is for the very basics. It just gets me out

:40:28.:40:32.

of bed in the morning. Feeding once a day and then back to bed at night.

:40:33.:40:38.

I do not even have a lunchtime call. Mark Atkinson, is this a typical

:40:39.:40:44.

story? I think it is, unfortunately. The stories we have heard from Susan

:40:45.:40:49.

and Jo are representative for many disabled people. The system is in

:40:50.:40:54.

crisis. Social care is crumbling. We are calling on the government to

:40:55.:40:57.

invest the money which is needed for disabled and older people. How

:40:58.:41:01.

important is social care? Critically important. You have heard from Jo,

:41:02.:41:07.

this is every day, practical support to get up in the morning, to get

:41:08.:41:14.

dressed, washed, to live an independent life. This is absolutely

:41:15.:41:18.

critical port which thousands and thousands of disabled people rely on

:41:19.:41:24.

everyday. Not a luxury? Absolutely not. It is absolutely critical if

:41:25.:41:28.

disabled people are going to live the same lives as is anybody else.

:41:29.:41:35.

We are hearing stories of disabled people having to sleep in their

:41:36.:41:39.

wheelchairs overnight, not being able to get to the toilet, not

:41:40.:41:44.

getting a nutritious meal. This is not a luxury, this is people living

:41:45.:41:48.

on the edge. How difficult is it for councils to balance the needs of

:41:49.:41:52.

people like Jo with the money they have available to give them that

:41:53.:41:58.

care? First of all, this is a really depressing read, this report from

:41:59.:42:00.

Scope. You cannot depressing read, this report from

:42:01.:42:06.

the individual stories in there. But there are more and more people

:42:07.:42:08.

needing care and support. Very there are more and more people

:42:09.:42:13.

well. And yet the government is reducing the funding available.

:42:14.:42:16.

Councils are between a rock and a hard place. People need more compact

:42:17.:42:20.

scare, and the Government hard place. People need more compact

:42:21.:42:23.

to provide less money, so it is inevitable that we will be in danger

:42:24.:42:27.

of not being able to provide safe and appropriate care

:42:28.:42:29.

of not being able to provide safe really need it. So what is the

:42:30.:42:33.

answer? The Chancellor has his spending review in a couple of

:42:34.:42:36.

weeks, together with everybody across the sector. People receiving

:42:37.:42:42.

and providing support. We are calling on the Chancellor to make

:42:43.:42:44.

and providing support. We are sure he provides a fair and

:42:45.:42:47.

sustainable funding settlement for social care, so

:42:48.:42:50.

sustainable funding settlement for and train staff, so that people can

:42:51.:42:52.

receive that care and train staff, so that people can

:42:53.:42:55.

that we do not end up with undue consequences for the NHS and for

:42:56.:42:59.

individuals. What would vote consequences be? Probably four main

:43:00.:43:07.

things. Firstly, the way in which people experience care and support

:43:08.:43:09.

depends on the skills and behaviours people experience care and support

:43:10.:43:12.

of the front-line staff who go in. We need to be able to recruit and

:43:13.:43:16.

pay appropriately and train those staff. Secondly, people will

:43:17.:43:24.

inevitably end up receiving poorer quality care. The Care Quality

:43:25.:43:28.

Commission already says that 40% of the services they regulate require

:43:29.:43:33.

improvement. Thirdly, the NHS saying there will be an impact at A with

:43:34.:43:41.

more people presenting. Fourthly and most importantly, people who rely on

:43:42.:43:45.

social care not being able to get the care and support they need when

:43:46.:43:50.

and where they need it. Jo, you say the money you get does not cover

:43:51.:43:56.

your needs - are you worried? Absolutely, it terrifies me. I have

:43:57.:43:59.

got huge debts and I do not know what is going to happen this time

:44:00.:44:05.

next year. Where is that payment going to come from? I cannot carry

:44:06.:44:09.

on the way I am going. What will you do? I really do not know. My concern

:44:10.:44:16.

is that I will end up like Susan in a care home. Because that will be

:44:17.:44:20.

the easy option for social services. But I really do not know. In terms

:44:21.:44:27.

of strategy, Mark, there is a policy shift away from care homes towards

:44:28.:44:34.

the kind of care which Jo has, and obviously many others. Half of the

:44:35.:44:37.

number of places in care homes are being closed - is it a sustainable

:44:38.:44:45.

situation? I don't think so. Scope feels that people should be able to

:44:46.:44:49.

live an independent life, in their own homes. That is what we should be

:44:50.:44:55.

aiming for. But one consequence of having taken ?4.6 billion out of

:44:56.:44:59.

social care in the last five years is that more disabled people will

:45:00.:45:02.

have little choice but to move out of their home, give up on that

:45:03.:45:07.

independent life and to live in a residential care home. A Department

:45:08.:45:13.

of Health spokesperson has said nobody should have to wait for hours

:45:14.:45:14.

for the care they need. Still to come... The mother of a

:45:15.:45:46.

little boy who died as a result of medical negligence speaks to us

:45:47.:45:49.

about her ordeal and tells us why she will never trust the Health

:45:50.:46:05.

Service again. Time time for the weather, with Carol. In Northern

:46:06.:46:09.

Ireland last night, we broke the minimum temperature record

:46:10.:46:16.

overnight. Temperature did not fall lower than 16.1 last night.

:46:17.:46:20.

Edinburgh today we are expect in 17 etc. You can see, right next to

:46:21.:46:25.

them, where the temperatures should be. We have a wet and windy day in

:46:26.:46:35.

prospect today. This weather front moving out of Scotland, heading down

:46:36.:46:43.

towards southern England, bringing some rain with it. That rain has

:46:44.:46:44.

been heavy. We continue with a lot of cloud

:46:45.:47:00.

around. A lot of cloud coming in across the south-west and it will be

:47:01.:47:03.

accompanied by showers and drizzle and some light rain at times.

:47:04.:47:08.

It is not going to feel cold though. The temperature in Barnstable 14

:47:09.:47:14.

Celsius. For Wales, we are also looking at a

:47:15.:47:19.

lot of rain. There will be drizzle along the coasts as well. For

:47:20.:47:22.

Northern Ireland, the rain will continue to sweep south-east wards

:47:23.:47:25.

as we go through the rest of the day. For Northern Scotland, we have

:47:26.:47:29.

got showers and there will be gusty winds particularly in the Northern

:47:30.:47:36.

Isles for a time. Gusting to 55mph. But at times across the north-east

:47:37.:47:39.

through the day, we will see brighter breaks. For the South East,

:47:40.:47:44.

there are some showers around. Some of those are going to be heavy and

:47:45.:47:50.

possibly thundery and if it is not where you are, you will find there

:47:51.:47:55.

is a lot of cloud. The weather front continues to migrate getting across

:47:56.:47:58.

northern England and in through Wales. On either side of it, a lot

:47:59.:48:01.

of cloud and the showers continuing across the north and the west.

:48:02.:48:05.

Temperatures, again, we are in good shape for this stage in November. It

:48:06.:48:09.

is not going to be a cold night. For Armistice Day, our weather front is

:48:10.:48:13.

ensconced across northern England and Wales. Some heavy bursts too.

:48:14.:48:21.

Some will fringe in across Devon and Cornwall and Somerset. Behind it,

:48:22.:48:27.

some sunny breaks across northern and Eastern Scotland. You will

:48:28.:48:29.

notice the next weather front showing its hand coming in from the

:48:30.:48:33.

west and that's going to introduce more rain. Having said that, as we

:48:34.:48:37.

head into Thursday, we will have a transient ridge of high pressure

:48:38.:48:40.

across us. There will be a lot of settled weather around. The further

:48:41.:48:44.

east that you are, the more likely you are to see sunshine, but the

:48:45.:48:47.

next area of low pressure is coming in from the west and that will usurp

:48:48.:48:52.

the high pressure. It will introduce wet and windy conditions and on its

:48:53.:48:58.

southern flank the wind could be strong enough to touch gusts to gale

:48:59.:49:02.

force. Temperatures by Thursday, 10 Celsius to 14 Celsius or 15 Celsius.

:49:03.:49:08.

Then as we head on through Friday, well, Friday, we still have got our

:49:09.:49:12.

weather front across us. Still introducing rain. But it will be

:49:13.:49:15.

colder on Friday. A political party. We have been used to temperatures

:49:16.:49:18.

above average for the last wee while. For some of us, they could

:49:19.:49:23.

fall below average on Friday. We will see snow on the Scottish hills,

:49:24.:49:26.

but there will be a lot of dry weather around too and sunshine. But

:49:27.:49:31.

if you're thinking you're going to miss the mild weather, you won't

:49:32.:49:35.

miss it for long, for Saturday and Sunday, the mild weather returns

:49:36.:49:38.

once again, but that doesn't mean it will be bone dry!

:49:39.:49:49.

Hello. It's Tuesday. It's 10.04am. I'm Joanna Gosling.

:49:50.:49:50.

Welcome to the programme if you've just joined us.

:49:51.:49:53.

The Prime Minister has set out his plans to change Britain's

:49:54.:49:56.

relationship with the European Union saying more flexibility is

:49:57.:49:58.

Let's acknowledge that the answer to every problem is not always more

:49:59.:50:05.

uranium. Sometimes it is less Europe. Let's accept that one size

:50:06.:50:11.

does not fit all. That flexibility is what I believe is best for

:50:12.:50:15.

Britain and as it happens, best for Europe too.

:50:16.:50:16.

The mother of a little boy who died as a result of medical negligence

:50:17.:50:23.

speaks to us about how the Health Service failed her son and why she

:50:24.:50:26.

And the killer whale displays that could soon be a thing of the past.

:50:27.:50:38.

The Prime Minister is writing to the President of the European Council,

:50:39.:50:44.

to set out the "better deal" he says the UK wants from its EU membership.

:50:45.:50:48.

In a speech this morning, David Cameron said that reaching agreement

:50:49.:50:52.

with the 27 other leaders was a big, but not impossible task and that

:50:53.:50:56.

the European Union needs to be more flexible if it is to persuade

:50:57.:51:03.

The commitment to an ever closer union is not a commitment that

:51:04.:51:16.

should apply to Britain. We do not believe in it. We don't subscribe to

:51:17.:51:19.

T we have a different vision for Europe.

:51:20.:51:24.

Russia's Sports Minister says the country will co-operate with

:51:25.:51:26.

anti-doping authorities following a report which accused the

:51:27.:51:28.

country of presiding over widespread doping and corruption in athletics.

:51:29.:51:30.

The report called for Russia to be suspended

:51:31.:51:34.

from world athletics including next year's Olympic Games in Rio.

:51:35.:51:40.

The Chief Executive of EasyJet has warned travellers they face

:51:41.:51:42.

increased security checks both at Sharm el-Sheikh Airport and around

:51:43.:51:45.

the world after a Russian airliner was brought down in a possible

:51:46.:51:47.

EasyJet is one of four airlines which have cancelled all flights to

:51:48.:51:51.

the Egyptian resort for at least another two weeks.

:51:52.:51:54.

Plans to relax Sunday trading laws in England and Wales could be

:51:55.:51:57.

thrown out by MPs after the SNP said it would vote against them.

:51:58.:52:02.

The Government proposals would see opening hours

:52:03.:52:04.

The Sunday Trading Act doesn't apply in Scotland, but the SNP says it's

:52:05.:52:10.

worried that wages for workers across the UK would be driven down.

:52:11.:52:17.

Myanmar's opposition leader Aung San Suu Chi says she's certain

:52:18.:52:19.

the military won't sabotage the results of Sunday's elections,

:52:20.:52:21.

which her party is expected to win by a landslide.

:52:22.:52:25.

Although only a small number of seats have been declared so far,

:52:26.:52:28.

her NLD party has won nearly all of them.

:52:29.:52:31.

In her first BBC interview after the vote, she said the will of

:52:32.:52:34.

Let's catch up with all the sport now.

:52:35.:52:45.

There has been so much fall-out from yesterdays WADA report

:52:46.:53:04.

revealing systematic state sponsored doping in Russian athletics and the

:53:05.:53:06.

recommendation that they be thrown out of next year's Olympics in Rio.

:53:07.:53:09.

I know you've been covering the story in depth.

:53:10.:53:11.

Georgina Hermitage, you came back with two golds and a silver,

:53:12.:53:21.

There is a lot of shock. More to the reaction is to yesterday's report

:53:22.:53:29.

There is a lot of shock. More to the depth of it really.

:53:30.:53:33.

There is a lot of shock. More to the have much of an opinion on it. I

:53:34.:53:37.

have full faith in the system and full faith in Wada to

:53:38.:53:41.

have full faith in the system and and see the outcome of

:53:42.:53:43.

have full faith in the system and have faith in the system. You talked

:53:44.:53:44.

about the system and the regulations about the system and the regulations

:53:45.:53:48.

in place. You were tested yourself, obviously? Yeah, in Doha, I was

:53:49.:53:53.

in place. You were tested yourself, tested after my 400 world record. I

:53:54.:53:55.

was tested also after the anniversary games. I can't see how

:53:56.:54:02.

people sort of break the system. I think

:54:03.:54:04.

An incredible year for you, 2015, An incredible year for you, 2015,

:54:05.:54:09.

bettering your own 400 world record. A fantastic year? Yeah, completely,

:54:10.:54:12.

really unexpected, you know, after A fantastic year? Yeah, completely,

:54:13.:54:18.

weeks, to come out and break another world

:54:19.:54:22.

weeks, to come out and break another true. We were just looking at the,

:54:23.:54:26.

how you qualify for the Paralympic Games. We think you have or you've

:54:27.:54:29.

secured a spot at least and that should be your spot next year? Yeah,

:54:30.:54:34.

fingers crossed and anything can happen in those times and especially

:54:35.:54:38.

abouts susceptible to injury, but I'm going to keep my head done and

:54:39.:54:46.

plod on and hopefully Rio will be a dream come true. No plodding, you

:54:47.:54:48.

move very quickly! Amber Hill could make the shooting

:54:49.:55:10.

team. 18-year-old Hill is in there. Nick Hope has been to meet her.

:55:11.:55:21.

Amber Hill would say she is a normal teenager. I am very girlie.

:55:22.:55:25.

Amber Hill would say she is a normal doing a beauty course. I think it's

:55:26.:55:29.

nice to be able to do people's nails and have a chat and it is just

:55:30.:55:32.

something that I'm really passionate about. But she also has a gun! When

:55:33.:55:38.

you go along and tell people what I do, I get

:55:39.:55:40.

you go along and tell people what I but that's the really nice thing

:55:41.:55:43.

about it. I can have the balance of both. It is not like you're just

:55:44.:55:47.

given a gun. I had to go through a lot of training. I was never left

:55:48.:55:55.

unsupervised and you have to wear the protective gear, glasses, hats

:55:56.:55:58.

and earphones. I have never heard of an accident happening. Tell me how

:55:59.:56:02.

much of an influence your grandad had on your career? My grandad has

:56:03.:56:07.

been a massive influence. I started when I was at school, I was doing

:56:08.:56:10.

the girlie sports, but there was something about shooting that was a

:56:11.:56:14.

bit different and my grandad used to do it She was a very, very good

:56:15.:56:20.

talent at a very young age. She listened which was very good. She

:56:21.:56:25.

did very well with it. Amber has been winning world medal and setting

:56:26.:56:29.

world record since she was just 15 years old and now she made the Team

:56:30.:56:35.

GB squad for Rio, she wants to make history by becoming the first UK

:56:36.:56:42.

woman to win gold. Representing my country has been a dream of mine and

:56:43.:56:47.

my grandad's and my family for the last four years. Hopefully I can

:56:48.:56:51.

inspire other youngsters to get into a sport of some sort. It makes you

:56:52.:56:55.

determined and focus on what you want to do it life.

:56:56.:57:03.

Sad racing news today. Pat Eddery has died at the age of 63. He was

:57:04.:57:08.

champion jockey 11 times and won every major race including three

:57:09.:57:12.

derb Chris and rode over 4500 winners before retiring in 2003.

:57:13.:57:18.

I will be S back with the headlines at

:57:19.:57:19.

10.30am. Thank you

:57:20.:57:24.

for joining us this morning. Welcome to the programme

:57:25.:57:25.

if you've just joined us. We're on BBC Two and the

:57:26.:57:28.

BBC News Channel until 11am. We're going to bring you the latest

:57:29.:57:30.

reaction to David Cameron's speech this morning in which he set out

:57:31.:57:33.

his terms to renegotiate Britain's Our political guru is standing

:57:34.:57:36.

by and we'll bring you reaction from Brussels at the home

:57:37.:57:41.

of the European Parliament. Do get

:57:42.:57:43.

in touch throughout the programme. Texts will be charged

:57:44.:57:45.

at the standard network rate. You can watch the programme online

:57:46.:57:52.

wherever you are via the BBC News app or

:57:53.:57:55.

our website bbc.co.uk/victoria You can also subscribe to all

:57:56.:57:56.

our features on the news app, by going to add topics and

:57:57.:57:59.

searching "Victoria Derbyshire". The mother of a six-year-old boy who

:58:00.:58:01.

died in hospital, after a doctor was found guilty of causing

:58:02.:58:04.

his death by gross negligence has told this programme she will never

:58:05.:58:07.

trust the health service again. Jack Adcock, who had Down's

:58:08.:58:10.

syndrome, died from complications from a chest infection at

:58:11.:58:12.

Leicester Royal Infirmary in 2011. Last week, Doctor Hadiza Bower-Garba

:58:13.:58:16.

was found guilty of manslaughter.Ms Last week, Doctor Hadiza Bower-Garba

:58:17.:58:20.

was found guilty of manslaughter. Ms Adcock paid an emotional tribute

:58:21.:58:23.

to her son on the steps of the court, saying he was one in a

:58:24.:58:31.

million. We'll be talking to her

:58:32.:58:33.

and her husband in a moment, Jack was born with Down's syndrome

:58:34.:58:35.

and spent a lot of time in hospital. He had his first operation when he

:58:36.:58:40.

was just six days old and had also In February 2011,

:58:41.:58:44.

Jack fell ill with diarrhoea, sickness and breathlessness

:58:45.:58:46.

and was admitted to hospital. Medical staff failed to recognise

:58:47.:58:48.

the seriousness of his condition. 11 hours

:58:49.:58:52.

after being admitted to the hospital His doctor Hadiza Bawa-Garba

:58:53.:58:55.

failed to treat him properly. As he suffered a heart attack the

:58:56.:59:01.

doctor told staff not to revive him A junior doctor realised the mistake

:59:02.:59:05.

but it was too late to save him. Doctor Bawa-Garba was convicted of

:59:06.:59:14.

manslaughter by gross negligence. Agency nurse Isabel Amaro was

:59:15.:59:19.

found guilty of the same charge. Let's to talk to Nicola

:59:20.:59:26.

along with her husband Vic. Thank you very much for coming in.

:59:27.:59:35.

Tell us about Jack first of all, what sort of a boy was he? What sort

:59:36.:59:39.

of a boy was he? Yes. He was brilliant. He was full of life. He

:59:40.:59:46.

loved dancing. He loved seeing shows, he loved the Wiggles, he

:59:47.:59:50.

loved books. He just loved life in general. He loved football. You used

:59:51.:59:54.

to take him to the football, didn't you? Yes. He was in hospital a lot

:59:55.:00:00.

of times. It didn't ruin his spirit? Not at all. You would never have

:00:01.:00:07.

known. Had you met Jack, you would not have known he major heart

:00:08.:00:11.

surgery. We used to have to chase him across the playground to get

:00:12.:00:16.

into school and when he came out of school, he you would have to chase

:00:17.:00:19.

him as well. He was full of life. Nothing kept him back. Nothing held

:00:20.:00:23.

him backment he just gave everything a go. So in February 2011, when he

:00:24.:00:29.

got poorly, what were the symptom? What was wrong and were you worried

:00:30.:00:35.

initially? OK. He started with sickness and diarrhoea. At 10pm, he

:00:36.:00:39.

started with sickness on the Thursday evening. Jack had sickness

:00:40.:00:43.

and diarrhoea many times before, just like other children do. It

:00:44.:00:48.

wasn't the sickness and diarrhoea that worried me. It was the

:00:49.:00:52.

following morning we got up, I noticed he was lee that are jibbing,

:00:53.:00:56.

but I put that down to him being awake all night with having the

:00:57.:00:59.

sickness or the runs, but his breathing was quite rapid. I noticed

:01:00.:01:04.

his fingernails had like a hint, of not blue, but a tinge. Something

:01:05.:01:08.

worried me. I phoned the doctors and got him in straightaway, booked an

:01:09.:01:11.

appointment, but I phoned back and said can you get me in now? I took

:01:12.:01:16.

him straight to our local GP who was brilliant and he examined him. I

:01:17.:01:20.

thought has he got a chest infection again? Jack used to suffer with

:01:21.:01:25.

chest infections. He assessed him. And just said I'd like you to take

:01:26.:01:28.

him to the hospital to get a second opinion. I wish I had never took him

:01:29.:01:32.

that day. What happened once you got to the hospital?

:01:33.:01:40.

We went to Ward nine, the assessment unit. We went to reception, there

:01:41.:01:47.

was no urgency. Eventually the sister came to look at Jack and she

:01:48.:01:50.

examine him. He was then taken to a bed where, now I know that she asked

:01:51.:01:56.

for the doctor to come and see him straightaway, and obviously, she

:01:57.:01:58.

assessed him and said he was very dry, which meant he was dehydrated.

:01:59.:02:04.

Obviously, asking me things about Jack, and I told her that he had had

:02:05.:02:08.

major heart surgery, he was on heart medication, just giving her the

:02:09.:02:12.

background history. Giving her the letter which I was given from the

:02:13.:02:16.

GP. And that day, it was not really, we did not really find out anything

:02:17.:02:21.

until after the event. It was not... On that day, we just took him to

:02:22.:02:25.

hospital thinking that he was in the hands of the professionals that were

:02:26.:02:31.

going to make him better. It was not until after we had lost Jack that

:02:32.:02:35.

things started to unravel and we found out more and more and more -

:02:36.:02:40.

we just could not believe it. On that day, though, you really

:02:41.:02:43.

believed he would be looked after as best as possible. Yes, even after

:02:44.:02:51.

the end of the evening, when Jack fell asleep on me, even then when we

:02:52.:02:56.

left, I went up to the doctor and thanked the, for looking after my

:02:57.:02:59.

little boy. I wish I could take those words back. I never knew a

:03:00.:03:04.

thing. We just got told that he died of pneumonia and an internal bleed.

:03:05.:03:10.

That is all we were told. We went back into see Jack and obviously,

:03:11.:03:15.

when we left, the doctor was crying, I was crying, everybody was crying

:03:16.:03:19.

because nobody expected it. The doctor said to me, I am really

:03:20.:03:23.

sorry, I wish the outcome had been different. Now we know what we know,

:03:24.:03:28.

I am not surprised she said that. But at that point I thanked her for

:03:29.:03:33.

looking after him. Because you take your children to hospital... I wish

:03:34.:03:37.

I had kept him at home that day. I wish I had never taken him to

:03:38.:03:41.

hospital. But then I would have been in trouble for duty of care. We did

:03:42.:03:47.

not actually know until the coroners report. What was the moment when it

:03:48.:03:51.

became clear to you that there were issues? We got a phone call on

:03:52.:03:54.

Saturday morning from the hospital. We lost him on the Friday evening.

:03:55.:04:00.

To say, we want to invite you into discuss what happened yesterday. So

:04:01.:04:05.

we went in, there was myself, thick, my mum, my friend who took minutes

:04:06.:04:10.

of the meeting, thankfully. And I remembered lots of things and I

:04:11.:04:14.

remember asking one question, which was, I remember someone coming in

:04:15.:04:15.

the room saying no, was, I remember someone coming in

:04:16.:04:19.

everything. What did you mean by that? That is when things

:04:20.:04:23.

everything. What did you mean by unravel. It was, for a split-second,

:04:24.:04:28.

we got him mixed with another child. Another child who specifically had,

:04:29.:04:32.

do not resuscitate on their records. And that little boy was discharged

:04:33.:04:36.

that afternoon. He was not even in the hospital. But that was applied

:04:37.:04:43.

to your sun? Yes. So he was not resuscitate it. That's correct. So

:04:44.:04:48.

they started resuscitate him, which we now know. The doctor came into

:04:49.:04:55.

the rule -- into the room and told them to stop. She admitted in court

:04:56.:05:00.

that she did not actually look at Jack's face, she did not identify

:05:01.:05:04.

Jack. She saw me and got me mixed up with the other little boy's parent.

:05:05.:05:09.

Then somebody questioned her actions and went over the notes. What they

:05:10.:05:13.

had done in that time is to take me back into the room and said, Jack

:05:14.:05:17.

needs his mummy. He just looked fast asleep. I did not know anything. I

:05:18.:05:23.

just thought he was sleeping. That is when everything started to

:05:24.:05:27.

unravel really. When you heard that, how did you

:05:28.:05:29.

unravel really. When you heard that, believe what I was hearing. What do

:05:30.:05:33.

you mean you got him mixed up with another child? I don't think it

:05:34.:05:36.

really sank in. And then obviously, we spoke to him for a few hours. And

:05:37.:05:41.

then obviously, the police were called, which we were, why are the

:05:42.:05:45.

police here? We have not done anything wrong. We were advised, any

:05:46.:05:50.

sudden death and obviously, of a child, the police would be called

:05:51.:05:53.

within 24 hours. So we gave our statements to the police. The police

:05:54.:05:59.

then spoke to the coroner. And basically from there on, things

:06:00.:06:03.

started to unravel. I just want to say, everybody has been amazing. The

:06:04.:06:08.

coroner was fantastic, the police have been amazing. The prosecution

:06:09.:06:11.

team - without them, we would not be where we are today and have got the

:06:12.:06:17.

verdict we have got. At the time, when the coroner says to us, we had

:06:18.:06:20.

planned his funeral and everything. when the coroner says to us, we had

:06:21.:06:24.

found out that he passed away when the coroner says to us, we had

:06:25.:06:33.

cockle septicaemia to pneumonia, and we went ahead and planned his

:06:34.:06:39.

funeral. We got called back in to be told, I am sorry, we

:06:40.:06:43.

funeral. We got called back in to be that boy. We thought, oh, my

:06:44.:06:45.

funeral. We got called back in to be somebody to blame for this? Looking

:06:46.:06:47.

back now, somebody to blame for this? Looking

:06:48.:06:51.

could not release Jack. And thank God she didn't. As much as it ripped

:06:52.:06:55.

us apart, because we would never have got the verdict that we got. It

:06:56.:07:00.

was 11 weeks after when you could have the funeral? Yes. 11 weeks

:07:01.:07:07.

after. We then laid Jack to rest and we carried on fighting and we have

:07:08.:07:12.

been fighting ever since. You had to go from

:07:13.:07:14.

been fighting ever since. You had to experience for any parent, grieving

:07:15.:07:20.

the loss of your sun, and in an instant, everything changed, and as

:07:21.:07:24.

you put it, you were fighting. How did you cope with that? I don't

:07:25.:07:28.

know. I cannot tell you. People say, how have you got where you are? I

:07:29.:07:34.

don't know. Our daughter, without, I would not be here. Probably the

:07:35.:07:38.

same. She keeps us going. Ruby. How old she? Eight now. She was three

:07:39.:07:49.

when we lost Jack. You said, Howell various people in authority got you

:07:50.:07:53.

through it, the support you had. It has been amazing. Where there are

:07:54.:07:57.

other moments where you felt you were being blocked or was it all

:07:58.:08:04.

done pretty smoothly? I would, when we did not get Jack back 411 weeks,

:08:05.:08:09.

we did not understand why. We are normal people, we do not understand

:08:10.:08:15.

the law, the medical side. Obviously, we wanted our sun back

:08:16.:08:18.

and we needed him back to lay him to rest. -- for 11 weeks. Everybody

:08:19.:08:24.

kept us informed as much as they could. Lots was going on behind the

:08:25.:08:28.

scenes which we did not know, which was very frustrating. But everybody

:08:29.:08:33.

has been amazing. If the coroner had not done what she did, we would not

:08:34.:08:37.

be where we are. We had the inquest should be years three months ago. If

:08:38.:08:41.

the coroner had not question the people as she did and ask the expert

:08:42.:08:45.

what she needed to ask him, and him say, if Jack had been given

:08:46.:08:52.

antibiotics, consultants treatment, intensive care treatment, they would

:08:53.:08:55.

have looked at his blood results, the outcome would have been very

:08:56.:08:58.

different. From that inquest, it then went criminal. Without

:08:59.:09:02.

everybody, support we would not have got that. Everyone has just been

:09:03.:09:07.

amazing. And now, the doctor involved in one of the nurses have

:09:08.:09:10.

both been convicted of manslaughter by gross negligence - how do you

:09:11.:09:15.

feel about the verdict and towards them? We have been fighting for that

:09:16.:09:22.

for so long. When things started to unravel, which we found out a lot at

:09:23.:09:25.

the inquest, we just could not believe what we were hearing. We

:09:26.:09:29.

were just like, oh, my god. If they had done this, this, this and this,

:09:30.:09:36.

he would have still been here. Due to the doctor not getting a

:09:37.:09:39.

consultant, not putting him in intensive care, not looking at his

:09:40.:09:45.

blood tests, holding his antibiotics back for five, nearly six hours, the

:09:46.:09:48.

outcome would have been different. She would have put no other nurses

:09:49.:09:53.

in jeopardy at all. Because of the actions she did or didn't do that

:09:54.:10:03.

day, we have lost our sun. I have always said, I know this situation

:10:04.:10:11.

is very serious, and I have always said, if he had been given the

:10:12.:10:15.

correct treatment on that day, and God forbid we had lost him, we could

:10:16.:10:19.

have said, they were absolutely amazing. We could not say that. They

:10:20.:10:25.

did nothing. How do you feel now about the prospect of having to take

:10:26.:10:29.

a child in for medical care again? I dread the day I have to take Ruby

:10:30.:10:34.

into A When we lost Jack we took out private medical insurance, which

:10:35.:10:39.

only covers you for certain things. If anything happened, we would have

:10:40.:10:42.

to take her to A I dread the day I have to do that. How do you get

:10:43.:10:48.

through it now, al are you coping after the court verdict? Struggling.

:10:49.:10:53.

We were on cloud nine on Wednesday because we wanted that verdict, it

:10:54.:10:58.

is all we have ever wanted, for that doctor to be accountable for what

:10:59.:11:03.

she did or lack of did that day. We were on cloud nine on that day. And

:11:04.:11:08.

then the reality hits and you think, that is so serious. Jack

:11:09.:11:13.

would have still been here. They were simple things, not complicated

:11:14.:11:17.

things, had she done her job right. You just think of the neglect he was

:11:18.:11:22.

given that day and it just... I have gone from being on cloud nine when

:11:23.:11:26.

getting the verdict to writes down but again. We are running on

:11:27.:11:35.

adrenaline, I think. Yes. You are there for each other. But it must be

:11:36.:11:39.

hard? It is hard because we grieve differently. I like to talk. Vic is

:11:40.:11:47.

very quiet. It is very difficult, isn't it? Yes. A lot of people talk

:11:48.:11:53.

about forgiveness. Do you think you will ever be able to for giving this

:11:54.:11:57.

situation? Absolutely not, no chance. I will never get my little

:11:58.:12:02.

boy back. Due to that doctor not doing what she should have done that

:12:03.:12:08.

day. She killed my sun. I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you for

:12:09.:12:10.

coming in. We speak to a woman who set up

:12:11.:12:17.

at date to catch a bogus landlord Let's go back to our top story -

:12:18.:12:29.

David Cameron's demand for the reforms he wants for the UK

:12:30.:12:33.

in the European Union. It's important to the polls

:12:34.:12:37.

on this by 2017 - and it will decide if the UK will stay in or out

:12:38.:12:40.

of the European Union. In the last hour,

:12:41.:12:43.

the Prime Minister has given a speech explaining why the

:12:44.:12:45.

European Union should be reformed. He has also written a letter to the

:12:46.:12:48.

president of the European Council with his demands for changes, which

:12:49.:12:51.

include changes to benefits some migrants can claim and taking steps

:12:52.:12:53.

to protect the UK from giving money to bail out struggling countries,

:12:54.:12:56.

as happened with Greece. Now let's speak to our political

:12:57.:12:59.

guru Norman Smith for the details. How much detail? Well, we got the

:13:00.:13:06.

gist of Mr Cameron's letter. People are piling out now after that

:13:07.:13:12.

speech. He has just left. He said the reforms were substantial

:13:13.:13:15.

reforms, he wanted all of them to addressed, he did not want some sort

:13:16.:13:18.

of pig and Mitch approach from other EU leaders. -- pick and mix. But my

:13:19.:13:27.

feeling was that he was saying to Europe, we are not the bad boys of

:13:28.:13:31.

Europe, actually. We have been in the EU for long time. We are the

:13:32.:13:35.

second biggest economy, we are the main defence force in Europe. We are

:13:36.:13:41.

engaged in Europe, but we have a problem at the moment. We are not

:13:42.:13:45.

signed up to your idea of some ever closer union. And I was struck as

:13:46.:13:53.

all that he again reiterated the very clear warning that if we do not

:13:54.:13:59.

get these sort of reforms, thing yes, we absolutely will leave. He

:14:00.:14:02.

was very clear that this is a decisive moment, a

:14:03.:14:07.

once-in-a-lifetime decision. This is it. Listen to what he said. The

:14:08.:14:13.

renegotiation is now entering its formal phase following several

:14:14.:14:16.

rounds of tech nickel discussions. Today I am writing to the president

:14:17.:14:21.

of the European Council setting out how I want to address the concerns

:14:22.:14:25.

of the British people and why I believe that the changes Britain is

:14:26.:14:30.

seeking will benefit not just Britain but the European Union as a

:14:31.:14:36.

whole. That would of course be for the negotiation itself to conclude

:14:37.:14:39.

the precise legal changes needed to bring about the reforms that Britain

:14:40.:14:42.

needs. But today I want to explain in more detail why we want to make

:14:43.:14:48.

the changes we have set out and how they will make a difference. This is

:14:49.:14:52.

perhaps the most important decision that the British people will have to

:14:53.:14:55.

take at the ballot box in our lifetimes. So I want to set out for

:14:56.:15:02.

the British people why this referendum matters and some of the

:15:03.:15:04.

issues we should weigh up very carefully as the arguments ebb and

:15:05.:15:09.

flow as we approach the referendum. I want to explain to our European

:15:10.:15:16.

partners while we are holding this referendum, what we are asking for

:15:17.:15:23.

and why. That letter is now winging its way over to the president of the

:15:24.:15:28.

European Council, Donald task, for him to consider. So what might Mr

:15:29.:15:34.

Cameron be writing in this letter he has been thinking about for so long?

:15:35.:15:39.

Number one, protecting the pound, making sure the countries which are

:15:40.:15:45.

not in the single currency do not get pushed around by those which

:15:46.:15:51.

are. Number two, helpful business, is ripping back a lot of the EU red

:15:52.:15:55.

tape and regulation, making it easier to do business, making Europe

:15:56.:16:03.

more competitive. Number three, powers for Parliament, making sure

:16:04.:16:05.

that Westminster and other parliaments can club together when

:16:06.:16:10.

necessary to push back against EU legislation. And number four, the

:16:11.:16:18.

most fraught, is benefit curbs. That is plans to restrict the ability of

:16:19.:16:28.

EU migrants to get in work benefits. That would stop them claiming for up

:16:29.:16:30.

to four years. How will the EU respond? We have a

:16:31.:16:38.

critical Christmas summit where the EU will sit down to ponders Mr

:16:39.:16:43.

Cameron's plans. I'm guessing they will be thinking problem number one,

:16:44.:16:49.

is the refugee crisis. Britain hasn't been hugely helpful to the

:16:50.:16:51.

rest of Europe when they have tried to put together a plan to deal with

:16:52.:16:56.

all the Syrian refugees coming to Britain. Problem number two, is that

:16:57.:17:02.

a UK problem, we are always banging on about Europe, John Major was

:17:03.:17:07.

unhappy, Mrs Thatcher was unhappy, we had our referendum back in the

:17:08.:17:12.

70s, is this just other euro winge by Britain? But problem three, which

:17:13.:17:17.

I think will cause them most concern, is benefit bias. And that's

:17:18.:17:22.

because under Mr Cameron's plans to say to EU migrants, looks you can't

:17:23.:17:27.

have tax credits. To many EU leaders, that looks like

:17:28.:17:29.

discrimination because their argument is hang on a sec, you could

:17:30.:17:34.

have a British worker and a Polish worker both doing the same job and

:17:35.:17:39.

yet the British worker would get paid more because they would get tax

:17:40.:17:43.

credits whereas the Polish worker wouldn't. Many EU leaders say that

:17:44.:17:48.

simply is not fair and that flouts one of the founding principles of

:17:49.:17:52.

the EU that there should be free movement of labour. No restrictions

:17:53.:17:58.

or disincentives for people to work in other countries. Now, as I say,

:17:59.:18:04.

that's what's going to be critical a the Christmas summit, but just one

:18:05.:18:09.

thing, I think, worth noting on. On that very difficult benefit demand

:18:10.:18:13.

Mr Cameron did say in his speech he was open to looking at different

:18:14.:18:19.

ways of dealing with this which suggests to me, Joanna, although he

:18:20.:18:25.

is trying to drive a hard bar gape, there is room for negotiation, he is

:18:26.:18:29.

looking for a deal. Thank you, Norman.

:18:30.:18:33.

Thanks for joining us today. Still to come before 11am:

:18:34.:18:37.

hundreds of service personnel say caused mental

:18:38.:18:46.

The Prime Minister is writing to the President of the European Council,

:18:47.:18:51.

to set out the "better deal" he says the UK wants from its EU membership.

:18:52.:18:55.

In a speech this morning, David Cameron said that reaching

:18:56.:18:57.

agreement with the 27 other leaders was a big, but not impossible task,

:18:58.:19:00.

but that the UK has concerns about deeper European integration

:19:01.:19:04.

The commitment in the treaty to an ever closer union is not a

:19:05.:19:18.

commitment that should apply any longer to Britainmed we don't

:19:19.:19:22.

believe in it. We don't subscribe to it. We have a different vision for

:19:23.:19:23.

Europe. The Kremlin has called

:19:24.:19:25.

the accusations that Russia presided over widespread doping

:19:26.:19:27.

and corruption But the country's sports

:19:28.:19:28.

minister says it will co-operate A report yesterday called for Russia

:19:29.:19:31.

to be suspended from world athletics including next

:19:32.:19:37.

year's Olympic Games in Rio. The mother of a six-year-old boy who

:19:38.:19:41.

died in hospital after a You can go back to my day in the 70s

:19:42.:19:54.

and the 80, I don't think anyone would be shocked to find that out.

:19:55.:19:58.

But it is the depth of that which has been amazing.

:19:59.:20:00.

The mother of a six-year-old boy who died in hospital after a

:20:01.:20:03.

catastrophic failure in his care has told this programme she will never

:20:04.:20:06.

Jack Adcock, who had Down's syndrome, died from complications

:20:07.:20:10.

from a chest infection at Leicester Royal Infirmary in 2011.

:20:11.:20:18.

On that day we just took him to hospital thinking he was in the

:20:19.:20:23.

hands of the professionals that were going to make him better. It wasn't

:20:24.:20:29.

until after we lost Jack that then things started unravelling and we

:20:30.:20:31.

found out more and more and more that it was just, we just couldn't

:20:32.:20:33.

believe it. The Chief Executive of Easyjet has

:20:34.:20:35.

warned travellers they face increased security checks both at

:20:36.:20:37.

Sharm el-Sheikh Airport and around the world after a Russian airliner

:20:38.:20:40.

was brought down in a possible EasyJet is one of four airlines

:20:41.:20:42.

which have cancelled all flights to the Egyptian resort for

:20:43.:20:47.

at least another two weeks. Let's catch up with all

:20:48.:20:53.

the sport now and join Olly Foster. Team GB has named

:20:54.:21:02.

a six strong shooting squad 18-year-old European Games gold

:21:03.:21:04.

medallist Amber Hill and World record holder Tim Kneale will be

:21:05.:21:07.

making their Olympic debuts. Sam Burgess says

:21:08.:21:10.

his heart just wasn't in Rugby Union which was one of the reasons

:21:11.:21:13.

why he is returning to Rugby League just a few weeks after playing

:21:14.:21:16.

for England at the World Cup. He's told the Daily Mail that Union

:21:17.:21:19.

didn't give him as much enjoyment and accused certain ex players,

:21:20.:21:22.

coaches and the media The second round draw has been made

:21:23.:21:24.

in the FA Cup, 15 non-league sides they lost to Chesterfield

:21:25.:21:32.

4-1 last night. The former 11 times flat racing

:21:33.:21:39.

champion Pat Eddery has died. Eddery won the Derby three times

:21:40.:21:41.

and won over 4,600 races Those are your sports headlines this

:21:42.:21:59.

morning. See you later, thanks, Obamay.

:22:00.:22:04.

-- Olly. MPs will begin hearing evidence

:22:05.:22:06.

later this morning about the safety of a drug that's

:22:07.:22:08.

widely prescribed to servicemen and The drug is called Lariam,

:22:09.:22:11.

the trade name for mefloquine. Hundreds of ex-service personnel

:22:12.:22:17.

and travellers have complained the drug caused mental health

:22:18.:22:22.

problems, even suicides. One MP who was in the army has told

:22:23.:22:24.

us he knew soldiers who threw their pills away because of fears

:22:25.:22:28.

about the possible side effects. The manufacturers Roche say

:22:29.:22:30.

the benefits outweigh the potential risks but some people

:22:31.:22:33.

say Lariam should be banned. Dan Johnson's report begins with

:22:34.:22:36.

Adam and Andrew who've suffered long-term after effects

:22:37.:22:38.

since taking the drug. My sleep started to become

:22:39.:22:40.

significantly disturbed. It started

:22:41.:22:42.

off with extreme insomnia really. Dizziness, loss of balance,

:22:43.:22:44.

irrational behaviour, Visual disturbances,

:22:45.:22:46.

very extreme nightmares and just I could feel rage boiling

:22:47.:22:51.

inside me physically, it was almost as if blood was

:22:52.:23:00.

heating and pumping through. I remember a man on fire in

:23:01.:23:03.

the corner of my room and smelling him burning and I remember seeing

:23:04.:23:14.

black cats and fragments of things It's the persistent nightmare

:23:15.:23:21.

disorder that is so debilitating, and the dreadful nights that I have

:23:22.:23:29.

every night when you are wondering why did I have those dreadful dreams

:23:30.:23:36.

and thoughts? Andrew's problems with Lariam

:23:37.:23:41.

started when he was posted to He says the Army didn't give him

:23:42.:23:47.

any choice about which drug to take to protect him from malaria, but he

:23:48.:23:53.

soon wished he hadn't taken Lariam. It has left him with

:23:54.:23:56.

a sleep disorder I will only ever sleep for

:23:57.:23:58.

about one hour at a time and the conclusion of that hour of sleep

:23:59.:24:08.

is a very vivid dream and probably between one in ten and one in 20

:24:09.:24:15.

of those dreams is a nightmare. For example,

:24:16.:24:20.

dreaming that you are in a burning Another nightmare very often

:24:21.:24:22.

involves snakes, and I don't know if this relates to experiences I

:24:23.:24:30.

have had with snakes in west Africa, but those are the sort of dreams

:24:31.:24:34.

that I am prepared to talk about. But there are others that are

:24:35.:24:42.

on a scale way beyond that. I have never discussed

:24:43.:24:46.

the content of those with anyone, Adam has never been in the Army

:24:47.:24:48.

but he did take four Lariam tablets They have had a huge

:24:49.:25:00.

and lasting effect on his life. I still experience extreme

:25:01.:25:10.

nightmares, predominately Depression is quite

:25:11.:25:14.

a significant part of my life now. I went abroad for a two-week holiday

:25:15.:25:22.

and it very much changed Johnny Mercer is a new MP and is

:25:23.:25:34.

on the Defence Committee, Everybody knows there have been

:25:35.:25:42.

rumours about this drug for a long time and the impact that it

:25:43.:25:49.

has on different groups of people. I know people who have just

:25:50.:25:53.

thrown it in the bin. That opens people up to malaria

:25:54.:25:55.

which is a really deadly disease. Back in August when I started this

:25:56.:26:04.

all I wanted to do was to clear up the position on this so our guys

:26:05.:26:08.

and girls can take it safely knowing it will protect them from this

:26:09.:26:11.

deadly disease, but at the same time It is all

:26:12.:26:18.

about clearing up that message really and making sure we are doing

:26:19.:26:22.

right by our service men and women. As we are talking a fellow new MP

:26:23.:26:28.

who shares the same office reveals he once took

:26:29.:26:31.

Larium on a visit to Africa. I went on my trip for a couple

:26:32.:26:35.

of weeks or so and came back and I remember very clearly feeling

:26:36.:26:40.

depressed and my wife saying I was I was reacting quite angrily

:26:41.:26:42.

to situations and I did not Then I read about some

:26:43.:26:49.

of the side-effects that can come with Lariam and kind of put two

:26:50.:26:54.

and two together and realised this It was actually given to me without

:26:55.:26:58.

my proper consent and it was also given to me in the knowledge that I

:26:59.:27:15.

and other people were experiencing dreadful side-effects,

:27:16.:27:22.

but we were denied an alternative. The alternative existed they knew,

:27:23.:27:24.

we didn't. The Ministry of Defence

:27:25.:27:28.

and the Veterans' Agency have been quite resolute in

:27:29.:27:31.

their determination not to address It is an awful indictment on the way

:27:32.:27:37.

that we do things and the way that we are supposed to care about people

:27:38.:27:43.

who have been damaged and making The Ministry

:27:44.:27:46.

of Defence told us it is still backing the use of Lariam and it is

:27:47.:27:53.

only prescribed in accordance with It did introduce risk assessments a

:27:54.:27:56.

couple of years ago for everyone who takes the drug and it is no longer

:27:57.:28:01.

the first choice antimalarial. The MOD does say it has confidence

:28:02.:28:14.

in this drug and I understand that, but I think there are still

:28:15.:28:17.

questions to be asked and that is why the Defence Select

:28:18.:28:20.

Committee is looking into this. There are a number of questions

:28:21.:28:23.

that surround this issue. It is not

:28:24.:28:25.

about me asking the questions, it is not issues that I might have

:28:26.:28:27.

personally, it is families who feel their lives have genuinely changed

:28:28.:28:30.

as a result of using this drug that It is about the families

:28:31.:28:33.

and getting answers for them. If you were heading to one

:28:34.:28:39.

of the areas that was applicable, I would speak to my doctor long

:28:40.:28:42.

and hard about whether or not it was But ultimately malaria is worse

:28:43.:28:46.

because you are going to die Adam sunk so low at one point

:28:47.:28:50.

he thought about suicide. He is now the director

:28:51.:28:55.

of a creative agency and is writing a book about the side-effects he

:28:56.:28:58.

and others have experienced. He is

:28:59.:29:00.

in touch with Andrew who retired Both men have strong feelings

:29:01.:29:02.

about the future for Lariam. This is a problem drug, so why is it

:29:03.:29:13.

still being prescribed on a massive I cannot say it should be banned

:29:14.:29:17.

because I am not medically qualified to say so, but if this was a piece

:29:18.:29:24.

of ammunition and it came with that level of risk - it either failed to

:29:25.:29:28.

work or it blew up in your face, or it presented all sorts of problems -

:29:29.:29:34.

we would have got rid You do not tolerate that level of

:29:35.:29:39.

risk in your equipment and weapons. It is a dangerous drug that is not

:29:40.:29:46.

properly understood and it should only be used

:29:47.:29:48.

in exceptional circumstances. From my perspective because

:29:49.:29:57.

of the extreme nature of what it can effect and do, it should be made

:29:58.:30:15.

illegal, it should be outlawed. The manufacturers say the benefits of

:30:16.:30:20.

the drug outweigh the risks, and they advise health care

:30:21.:30:22.

professionals to follow its own advice.

:30:23.:30:25.

Still to come - Seaworld in California waves goodbye to some of

:30:26.:30:28.

its controversial killer whale displays - we'll find out why.

:30:29.:30:30.

Finding somewhere to live can be a real struggle - but imagine

:30:31.:30:33.

the frustration if the place you've fallen in love was all a con.

:30:34.:30:40.

That's what happened to Otilija Baublyte,

:30:41.:30:43.

who handed over ?1,000 to secure a flat to a man she later discovered

:30:44.:30:46.

was a bogus landlord who didn't own the property he was offering her.

:30:47.:30:51.

She decided to take the matter in her own hands and devised

:30:52.:30:54.

In court he admitted two charges of false representation

:30:55.:31:00.

But this is when she finally caught up with him.

:31:01.:31:07.

Otilija Baublyte is here with us now.

:31:08.:31:33.

That man has finally been sentenced. Just talk us through that moment.

:31:34.:31:42.

Actually I was waiting to Atiqul Islam to meet me for a date but he

:31:43.:31:46.

was always late. And my brother he was waiting in one of the coffee

:31:47.:31:50.

shops, and my brother, he was waiting in the pub. That is how we

:31:51.:31:54.

just caught him. My boyfriend he came from the left and my brother

:31:55.:31:57.

from the right. And we just caught him. Take us back to the beginning,

:31:58.:32:04.

how you got in touch with him in the first place, because you were

:32:05.:32:06.

looking for somewhere to rent and you thought you had found a great

:32:07.:32:14.

place? Exactly. Actually I put an advertisement on Gumtree that I was

:32:15.:32:20.

looking for a flat or a room. After maybe one week that's why he found

:32:21.:32:24.

me. He contacted me by my mobile phone. He said there was a flat with

:32:25.:32:27.

three bedrooms and I said OK that would be nice to have a look. And we

:32:28.:32:33.

met another day. And the flat looked really nice. There was three small

:32:34.:32:39.

bedrooms but I thought, for ?1000 it is a really good price in London

:32:40.:32:45.

because everywhere else was really expensive. I was waiting for the

:32:46.:32:48.

keys but I had already given the money to him and I had already

:32:49.:32:52.

signed the contract and given him a copy of my passport. And I thought

:32:53.:32:56.

this looks OK. And my boyfriend, he was also with me. And after that, we

:32:57.:33:04.

were just keeping waiting for the keys and he did not show up. So I

:33:05.:33:08.

just kept calling to him but he was ignoring my calls. And after that,

:33:09.:33:15.

one day after I finish work, I just tried to call him and he answered my

:33:16.:33:19.

phone. But I did not mention about money or something, I just said, how

:33:20.:33:24.

are you, nice to speak to you, something like that. And I just

:33:25.:33:29.

said, I broke up with my boyfriend, thought you were really lies man,

:33:30.:33:35.

blah, blah, blah. It is the moment when you decided you were going to

:33:36.:33:40.

trap him? Exactly. Going back to how he managed to con you, he obviously

:33:41.:33:45.

had access to this flat, so was there no sign at all? There was

:33:46.:33:49.

actually one lady, and she opened the door for us. And it looked like,

:33:50.:33:55.

I don't know what she was thinking but she just showed the flat to us

:33:56.:33:59.

and I thought it was OK. But after a few days I checked the flat and she

:34:00.:34:04.

opened the door, and I said, I have been there last week and I would

:34:05.:34:08.

like to move here like, I don't know, next week. And she said, I am

:34:09.:34:16.

not moving anywhere. It is my house. It is a council house. And I was

:34:17.:34:21.

just, OK. So he did not own it and he had no way of letting it to you

:34:22.:34:24.

and he had taken ?1000 from you? Exactly. And then he said, don't

:34:25.:34:31.

worry, if you don't want this flat I can give it to other people. I said,

:34:32.:34:37.

it is OK, I can pay you the deposit. So you totally trusted him. You knew

:34:38.:34:42.

something was going on. Why didn't you go to the police? Actually I did

:34:43.:34:47.

not expect... I don't know I thought maybe I should try by myself first.

:34:48.:34:51.

I did not expect the police would take it seriously because maybe it

:34:52.:34:57.

was a little my fault. And I thought, let's try to catch him in

:34:58.:35:04.

this way, so that is why. And it was all quite straightforward in the

:35:05.:35:09.

end. He was ignoring your calls and he got back in touch when he thought

:35:10.:35:13.

he could go out on a date with you? Yes, I don't know why. Sometimes his

:35:14.:35:18.

phone was off but as I said, 1 o'clock in the evening when I finish

:35:19.:35:23.

my work, I just called him, I don't know, just for luck, and he

:35:24.:35:27.

answered. I was so happy. And then he was just chatting around four

:35:28.:35:31.

o'clock in the morning. And then I asked him to go with me. What made

:35:32.:35:36.

you think of doing that? Actually I just... It was risky, wasn't it?

:35:37.:35:44.

Were you not worried about arranging to meet him? I was a bit scared, and

:35:45.:35:50.

the same evening he offered for me that he can bring some pizza for us

:35:51.:35:56.

and we can have dinner. I said, no, let's meet the same day but like

:35:57.:36:00.

three o'clock. And then he accepted. And I thought, OK, let's try. So, do

:36:01.:36:07.

you think this is a scam which could happen to anybody? To anyone, yes.

:36:08.:36:12.

You give your advertisement first and then anyone can contact you,

:36:13.:36:18.

anyone. So you have had a big lesson. What advice would you give

:36:19.:36:22.

to other people? In the same second you need to give money but you need

:36:23.:36:26.

to get the keys as well. Otherwise you will just be waiting for

:36:27.:36:31.

unlimited time and you will not get them. You are sorted now with

:36:32.:36:34.

somewhere to live. Yes! We spoke to Gumtree -

:36:35.:36:37.

they told us... The American wildlife park Sea World

:36:38.:36:58.

is planning to phase out some of its more controversial shows

:36:59.:37:02.

involving killer whales, or Orcas. It follows mounting criticism from

:37:03.:37:04.

activists who say keeping orcas in The company says it will replace

:37:05.:37:08.

its shows with an exhibition Robb Lott is

:37:09.:37:14.

from the organisation Whale and Dolphin Conservation - he's part

:37:15.:37:19.

of the anti-captivity team. What is your reaction to this news?

:37:20.:37:31.

Good morning. A little cynical. I think it may be a public relations

:37:32.:37:39.

exercise. Sea World is trying to reverse its decline in attendance

:37:40.:37:41.

and repair its tarnished image. The fact remains that the orcas will

:37:42.:37:47.

still be in a concrete tank. These are incredible teachers and they are

:37:48.:37:54.

too big, smart, powerful and mobile over to thrive in such a lot of

:37:55.:37:59.

visual environment. -- creatures. What impact would you say that

:38:00.:38:04.

environment has on them? Well, it is proven to cause physical and

:38:05.:38:08.

psychological damage to the orcas. The animal mortality rate for

:38:09.:38:13.

captive orcas is nearly 2.5 times that of wild orcas. We know that in

:38:14.:38:20.

the wild, there is one orca off the coast of the Pacific Northwest which

:38:21.:38:25.

researchers believe to be more than 100 years old. Sadly in captivity,

:38:26.:38:29.

they rarely survive beyond their early twenties. Sea World would say

:38:30.:38:36.

that it is looking after these whales, protecting them, letting

:38:37.:38:41.

people know about the animals and seeing them in action? Yes, they do.

:38:42.:38:49.

And going back to the mortality rate, they talk about the

:38:50.:38:52.

world-class veterinary care which they provide. They talk about the

:38:53.:38:56.

restaurant quality fish which they provide. The fact remains, they do

:38:57.:39:01.

live these shorter, impoverished lives. And the conservation angle,

:39:02.:39:05.

we did some work at Whale and Dolphin Conservation a few years ago

:39:06.:39:14.

and we've found that just 5 cents out of an $80 ticket actually goes

:39:15.:39:20.

towards conservation. And this applies only to California, not

:39:21.:39:25.

Texas or Florida. If the company really wants to project this more

:39:26.:39:29.

natural environment and have a strong conservation message, then

:39:30.:39:31.

why not roll it out to the other parks in the United States? Could

:39:32.:39:36.

these animals ever be released into the wild? Well, Sea World has five

:39:37.:39:42.

orcas which were captured from the wild and most of them came from

:39:43.:39:46.

Iceland in the late 1970s and early 1980s. There is one individual

:39:47.:39:52.

called Corky who came from the waters of the Pacific Northwest off

:39:53.:39:58.

the course -- off the coast of British Columbia. She was captured

:39:59.:40:03.

in 1969. Incredibly she has survived such a long time. She will be

:40:04.:40:07.

probably 50 years old this year. We know a lot about her family in the

:40:08.:40:12.

wild. Just last summer we were out in Vancouver Island and we saw her

:40:13.:40:18.

brother and sister who is still swimming wild and free. It could be

:40:19.:40:23.

a retirement project for Corky to reintroduce her to her ancestral

:40:24.:40:29.

waters. This would take the form of an Ocean Sanctuary to monitor her

:40:30.:40:33.

behaviour from that point on. But in the wild she would be in the prime

:40:34.:40:37.

of her life now. We have got lots of people getting in touch on this one.

:40:38.:40:42.

Jacqueline says on Facebook, if you have ever seen them in the wild, you

:40:43.:40:45.

would know how cruel Sea World and others are. This one says, we do not

:40:46.:40:52.

need aquariums, either. Always return them to the wild. This one

:40:53.:40:59.

says, any animals kept in captivity should not be used to boost people

:41:00.:41:04.

selling income. They should not be used to entertain people. Are there

:41:05.:41:08.

many other places which have got killer whales like this? Yes, there

:41:09.:41:13.

is two facilities in Europe, one in the south of France and one in

:41:14.:41:21.

Tenerife. The orcas in the second one actually belong to Sea World as

:41:22.:41:26.

part of a breeding loan. Around the world there are 58 orcas in

:41:27.:41:29.

captivity at the moment. The worrying thing is what is happening

:41:30.:41:38.

with the Chinese market. They are opening these huge facilities and

:41:39.:41:41.

they have got ambitious plans to bring in wild orcas and wild beluga

:41:42.:41:46.

whales from Russia. Russia is the only place in the world today where

:41:47.:41:54.

you can legally capture wild orcas. This is an absolutely barbaric

:41:55.:41:59.

operation. A lot of animals get injured in the process or die in

:42:00.:42:02.

transportation and then go onto impoverished life in captivity. In

:42:03.:42:09.

the end, people do pay to go along to see killer whales in the kinds of

:42:10.:42:13.

shows which Sea World has been putting on? They do, but

:42:14.:42:17.

shows which Sea World has been at the UK for example, we closed our

:42:18.:42:23.

doors on the last orca nearly 20 years ago. And today there remains

:42:24.:42:26.

no public desire or political will ever for them to reopen it

:42:27.:42:35.

no public desire or political will UK. I think this is a PR exercise

:42:36.:42:38.

following UK. I think this is a PR exercise

:42:39.:42:42.

Sea World. It was very scant on the detail as to what

:42:43.:42:45.

Sea World. It was very scant on the experience would be. And I have to

:42:46.:42:49.

question the fact that these orcas, highly mobile, I can swim 100 miles

:42:50.:42:55.

in a day, are still confined to these concrete tanks. So just what

:42:56.:43:00.

naturalistic environment they could offer just defeats me, really, I do

:43:01.:43:03.

not understand how that could be possible. Thank you very much for

:43:04.:43:10.

joining us. A lot of you have been getting in touch after our

:43:11.:43:15.

conversation with Nicola Adcock, whose son died in hospital after

:43:16.:43:18.

catastrophic failure in his care in hospital. This one says, so sorry to

:43:19.:43:23.

hear about Jack. Hope the NHS learn their lessons. This one says, you

:43:24.:43:28.

cannot tarnish the whole of the NHS with this. This one says, private

:43:29.:43:34.

medics make terrible mistakes, too. But the NHS will carry on saving

:43:35.:43:39.

lives. You can watch the interview again on most run programme page.

:43:40.:43:44.

Join us again tomorrow. Continuing reaction to David Cameron's speech

:43:45.:43:55.

on Europe will be on BBC News throughout the day. Bye-bye.

:43:56.:44:02.

MUSIC: Boombastic by Shaggy

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