20/01/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Wednesday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

This is Poppi Worthington from cumbria.

Her case will shock and upset you and today politicians

This morning we'll bring you her full story.

The Police Federation in England and Wales tell this programme that

British lives are being put at risk because police officers are not

routinely armed with tasers. Plus it's been likened

to an apartheid policy. Asylum seekers in Middlesborough

being housed in homes He just wants a peaceful

life with no war. He's like a son to me

and I don't want...to lose him. That was Karen, a foster carer who's

been looking after a 14-year-old asylum seeker from

Afghanistan who turned up We'll find out what it's

like to open your home to a child We are on BBC Two and the BBC

News Channel until 11 this morning. We will bring you the latest

employment figures that are due out at how past nine this morning and

reaction from the Employment Minister Priti Patel just after ten

Minister Priti Patel just after ten o'clock.

Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

And of course you can watch the programme online wherever

you are via the BBC News app or our Website.

British people's lives are being put at risk because officers are not

being routinely armed with taser guns.

That is what the Police Federation in England and Wales

At the moment there is no consistency about how many officers

carry tasers, but right now most do not.

The Home Office says tasers were used 10,062 times in 2014,

but were only actually fired in around 2000 cases.

Get down! Stay exactly where you are and I will not have to use the taser

Let's introduce you to Ivan Martin who was tasered by police

in Birmingham AND Steve White, who's the chairman of

the Police Federation in England and Wales.

Good morning. Thank you both for coming in. Why do you want a wider

roll-out of tasers? This is what police officers up and down the

country have been saying to us. They are feeling vulnerable. Over many

years we have seen the value that a taser can bring and I think the

public recognise the value that they bring because it is a less than

lethal option. At the moment police officers carry weapons that can

cause serious injury and in some cases death. A taser fills that gap.

It means you can gain control, you can deal with people effectively and

quickly without causing injury and without resorting to even more

violence. You say police officers are feeling vulnerable, more

vulnerable than usual? Absolutely, the risks are greater than probably

at any time certainly in my service. We have seen intelligence

assessments that have been suggesting that. The terror threat

in Britain has been severe, the second-highest, for 18 months, since

August 2014, despite Charlie Hebdo and despite what we saw in Paris in

November and the Russian airliner being shot down. That is just one

aspect of it. The day-to-day deployment of police officers,

16,000 fewer cops on the streets, so you have got vulnerability in terms

of single crew in and getting to an incident. In Thames Valley and

Leytonstone in the real value of having officers equipped and ready

to respond quickly to deploy and use the device effectively has been of

huge value. Rather than calling in firearms officers and that may take

ten or 15 minutes or longer? Exactly, or dealing with the threat

in a different way which might involve potentially lethal force or

force that might cause injury to the officer, the suspect or the public.

Which is why use a British lives are at risk because of this delay in

rolling them out. The Police Federation unanimously voted for

this to happen a year ago. It is not a government decision, it is down to

chief constables. We understand they are meeting today to discuss this

issue. Are they listening to you? Some chief constables are very

sympathetic and they have to demonstrate to their officers that

they are concerned for their safety. It is a balancing act. They have got

to ensure the level of police response is appropriate. We listen

to the Prime Minister before Christmas, clearly showing an

indication that politically now is the right time to make this move. It

is a highly effective tool and the public are onside and they

understand its use. Community relations will not be damaged by its

roll-out. We are asking for police officers to volunteer, who undertake

their rigorous training to be allowed to do it. It is not being

allowed to give every single police officer taser. It will be needed to

keep people safe. You were tasered. What was it like? It was like when

they actually taser you your body goes to jelly and you fall on the

floor with no control whatsoever. Was painful? It is even painful if

you fall awkwardly because you have got no natural putting your hand

down to break your fall wherever you are. The fall caused me more damage

than the taser itself. What were the circumstances? They came to my house

looking for my son who is 23 years old and I was unable to tell them or

persuade them that I was not the guy there were looking for. In the end

they decided to come into the House and as they came at me I moved out

of the way so they would not pour over me and the next minute I know I

felt like two Bullets go into my back and the next minute I got an

electric shock and my body went to jelly and I felt on the floor and

caused myself an injury. In the end it was a mistake and they should not

have done that and you were paid compensation. Despite your

experience, do you understand Steve White's call on behalf of his

members of the Police Federation to routinely are more officers with

taser 's if they wanted volunteer to use them? I understand where they

are coming from and I understand the risks they take when they are

outside. Yes, it is far better to taser somebody and somebody having a

firearm and shooting them. I have no problem about it. But it is the

accountability. In my case why could they not talk to me? Why did they

have to pull the taser out first? It is like back in the old days where

they shoot first and answer questions later. I know you cannot

comment on his case, but the point about accountability, if a mistake

is made and there is mistaken identity, what happens from the

taxpayer's point of view when it comes to accountability? The police

officer is accountable to the law and the public. If a mistake has

been made the Independent Police Complaints Commission investigated

rigorously to make sure lessons are learned and in Ivan's case to

apologise. But what is important is the training for this device is

significant. I want to pick up the point that Ivan was talking about in

terms of communication. It is not about giving a police officer taser

and saying, you can use that, so you do not talk to people. A lot of the

training is about its use. To point it and use it is straightforward.

Officers are trained to understand it should not replace their skills.

Their ability to have that conversation and assess the level of

risk has to happen very quickly. Quite often it will be obvious if

you are facing a serious risk. If you are facing a big machete, you

have to deal with that risk, but it does not mean you do not continue to

talk to people. It should be on the basis of officers volunteering to

take that additional responsibility. You have been an officer for how

long? 27 years. Things have changed since you went out with a truncheon

and a cake! That is right. When you go out to you as an officer feel

different in terms of the threat you face? It is about awareness, it is

about expecting the unexpected wherever the threat might come from

and this is part of the problem. We are now policing an environment

which is difficult to predict. The threat can come from anywhere. No

longer do we just deal with the city centre violence, violence can happen

anyway as we saw recently in the Thames Valley. We have got to make

sure we have the resources to deal with it in order to keep the public

safe. You are messages from the public. This tweet says British

lives are being put at risk because trigger-happy police are being armed

with taser guns. There have been some taser related deaths. Yes,

nothing is perfect and there have been deaths from people being

restrained, deaths from people having other devices. We are saying

this is a much safer option and the evidence is clear and any death

involving please contact is regrettable. We are never going to

be perfect all of the time, but if you look at the statistics, and

sadly they are lacking in the way we measure this in terms of its

usefulness, overwhelmingly it is useful. You quoted figures earlier

in your report and the vast majority of times when people see that police

have taser, they backed down and start to behave and the use of it is

negated. The idea you have got a taser tends to be escalate the

situation and you gain control. This tweet says tasers are death and

heavy regulation will be needed if they become commonplace. They are

dangerous. Craik said it please carry tasers they should also wear

video recording equipment. There is too much mistrust to simply roll

them out. And on relation to video recorders, we are rolling out body

worn videos too many places in the country. As soon as the taser is

taken out, the camera starts recording. I have met members

recently who say they will no longer go out and patrol unless they have

got a video camera because they understand it. In the vast majority

of cases where a taser has been deployed it has been to the benefit

of the public and the suspect. A quick question about another story

in the news, the idea of volunteers being given police powers in peace

forces, what do you think? We have been talking about accountability

for fully trained police officers. We have got significant concerns.

Will we see volunteers being given tasers as well? It raises all sorts

of questions. The public of this country deserve up properly trained

police service and that is what should remain. Thank you very much.

Many thanks for your time. On Ivan's case, a spokesperson from West

Midlands police said the civil action relating to the wrongful

arrest of him in 2014 resulted in the force paying him damages. We

have accepted making a mistake and an investigation upheld his case.

The government said it is committed. A hell of a subcontractor is being

accused of an apartheid policy because asylum seekers are being put

up in homes with front doors that are painted bright red. Some

residents have said they have stones and eggs thrown at their windows in

Middlesbrough because their doors make them easy to identify. The

Times newspaper visited 168 homes in the owned by a subcontractor to G

for S. G4S says they will be repainted. But one resident claimed

when he painted his door wide it was repainted red two days later and the

Home Office has ordered an urgent review. Suzanne Fletcher is a

retired councillor in the area. I think you raised this very issue

with the Home Affairs Select Committee in 2013. Is that right?

Yes, it is. But it goes further. When I first heard about this in

2011, meeting with the local community organising the regional

refugee Forum, there were a lot of housing issues.

What is the name issue -- main issue for you? They were feeling very

insecure, feeling nervous, worried about reporting to police because

they felt very vulnerable, they do not want to do anything to

jeopardise their case. They want to stay here in safety, obviously they

have fled. The police have done everything they can when they know

about it, but it is the worry that they could not report it but there

have been ex-thrown and stones thrown. Racist graffiti. -- eggs

thrown. But I must stress that it is a naughty of people. In general,

Teesside is a welcoming place and we are happy to have asylum seekers. It

is just a view, and it has been easy for them, because the red doors told

them which houses it was, so that they could throw, they could run

away. So easy for them. Do you accept the subcontractor saying,

there is no deliberate policy to paint these red in order to identify

the fact that asylum seekers live in these homes? I think that when it

was first done, I think there was not any intention to do anything at

all that was bad, I don't think that was the original intention, what is

annoying is the way that they have not responded to calls to do

something about it. Nor has G4S and we had a meeting with them and they

said they would not take the issue forward, there would not ask them to

change the doors. -- they would. It has been through a whole variety of

House of Commons select committees, and they have been told that they

will look into it. They will repaint them now, is that enough for you? On

the doors issue, that is what is needed, but they need to be more

responsive on other issues, like the sharing of bedrooms, for instance,

people with a different language and different cultures and different

faith are sharing a bedroom, and they cannot even talk to each other

properly because they do not have a shared language. We need to be able

to sort that out, so that people are sharing with someone who they have

something in common with and so that they can communicate, you do need

that, if you are sharing a bedroom. G4S: " our subcontractor has no

policy to has asylum seekers behind red doors... And it

-- behind red doors..." And it goes on:

breaking news, unemployment has fallen by 99,000 between September

and November, 1.68 million, official figures out in the last minute or so

have shown. More reaction on that to come. Defence ministers from several

countries including Britain meeting in Paris today to talk about

intensifying the military campaign against so-called Islamic State, in

Syria and Iraq. Michael Fallon says that he would like the Allies quote

" -- would like the Allies to quote " strike harder". Coming up:

Police and prosecutors are urged to look again at the distressing death

of Poppi Worthington who died suddenly at the age of 13 months,

we'll be talking to a former judge. And we meet a foster mother from

Yorkshire who's looking after a teenager from war-torn Afghanistan.

At least 19 people are reported to have been killed -- after militants

storm a university in northwestern Pakistan. The Defence Secretary,

Michael Fallon, will urge his counterparts in Paris today to hit

harder at what he calls the "head of the snake" in the fight against the

so-called Islamic State in Syria. Brussels considers changes to the

rules that require refugees to claim asylum in the first country in which

they arrive. E.On is to reduce its standard gas price from next month

-- following mounting criticism of the big energy companies for failing

to pass on falling wholesale prices to consumers.

A 10-year-old Muslim boy who mistakenly wrote that he lived in a

"terrorist house" when he meant to say "terraced house" during an

English lesson at school has been investigated by police. And Donald

Trump gets the backing of Sarah Palin, the populist ex-governor of

Alaska and former Republican vice-presidential candidate.

Last non-league side are out, Eastleigh, not without a fight, we

will have some of the goals, including a penalty shoot out coming

up at 10am, football in Scotland as well, all of the goals at Celtic

Park, leaders Celtic beating Hamilton 8-1, the fallout from these

tennis match fixing investigations continues, a former player who is

now a coach has claimed that it is a secret that everybody knows on tour,

that the tennis authorities know who is doing it and it affects major

tournaments as well. The tennis integrity units asked the former

player to share his information with them. No shocks so far on the third

day of fierce trailing open, first grand slam of the year, all of the

top seeds are through including Roger Federer and Serena Williams.

Coming up in the next half-hour we will have some of the action.

The former justice minister Simon Hughes has told the BBC

that the Crown Prosecution Service should re-open the case

into the death of thirteen-month-old Poppi Worthington.

Yesterday a judge ruled that Poppi was sexually assaulted by her father

shortly before she suddenly died, after being found with serious

injuries at her home in Barrow-in Furness.

Poppi's father, Paul Worthington, was questioned by police

on suspicion of sexual assault but was not charged

He's always denied any wrongdoing and has said he does not accept

The family judge Mr Justice Peter Jackson was using a different

standard of proof to that used in the criminal law to make his claims

The local MP for Barrow, John Woodcock says the government must do

more to ensure justice is done. We feel sick and angry about the

failures of the social services and the police, showing that Poppi

Worthington has not had justice for her death and her killer is still

free to roam the streets of Barrow. I want the Home Secretary to step in

now, and give this case to another force, to try to salvage some hope

that there could be a criminal investigation after all of the

failings which have resulted in this.

Joining me now is Sir Mark Potter who's a former judge of the court

of Appeal, President of the High Court Family Division

and President of the Court of Protection.

Your response to the fact that this particular family court judge has

released these details publicly? My response is that he in turn is

responding to the constant demand over the last ten years or so for

the family division, particularly in matters of high importance to make

its proceedings public, and to lead to increased identification of

persons involved. Pertaining to the proper protection of children. That

is something which so far as I can see the judge has done in this case,

but we may have questions to ask. The call from some that the CPS

should look again at whether criminal proceedings should take

place, what do you say to that? There is no objection to that

happening. A note of warning, the judgment today, I have not yet read

it, but it was on the 13th of last year that the CPS made a statement

that it was not going to prosecute in this case. That acts as a

releasing feature, so that the judge who hitherto has to be careful about

what he publicises, because they may prejudice the criminal proceedings,

he will then proceed on the basis of what police have said. So far as

this judge was concerned, he was obliged for the purposes of the care

proceedings, the authorities were seeking to take away the children

from the parents, to make findings on whether or not the father had

committed the offence of assault with which he was charged, and the

burden of proof is the balance of probabilities. That is not to say

that in any case where the judge decides on the balance of

probability that you may not be quite satisfied, even on the

criminal burden that has been made out, but he does not have to go on

and say so, I'm not in the mind of the judge, I have seen the evidence,

which is extremely strong, and this particular judge is highly thought

of, as being a very able but also progressive judge, in a matter of

operating as so far as is possible with the press so long as it does

not at first the of litigants involved. The father of Poppi

Worthington has denied any wrongdoing, he says he did not

sexually assaulted his 13-month-old daughter shortly before she died.

The conclusion that the family judge has come to... Justice Peter

Jackson... On the balance of probabilities, her father had

sexually assaulted this baby before she died. How does it help to say

that publicly, when the CPS has already said there will be no

criminal proceedings against this man? Abbasid helped to say publicly?

It brings out into The Open what the circumstances are, question always

is, should the judgment be published, the question is whether

it should be referred to as a comedy throughout, or any or all of them

should be identified. -- should be referred to as A, B and C

throughout. The reaction from the press is kind of ironic, for years

they have been pressing, when I was president of the family division, I

sought to take steps to meet the complaint, that there should be much

further publicity and fresh air of public scrutiny should be allowed to

blow over family proceedings, now, when it has reached this particular

case, and that procedure is being followed, and the present president

of the family division is in favour of open justice, suddenly how it is

in just, that the press have identified to them somebody whose

identity they have sought. And frequently seek in other situations.

Perhaps it leaves this father in some kind of legal limbo, the CPS,

the police, said there was not enough evidence to bring a charge,

the CPS say there is no chance of realistic conviction. But the judge

concludes that this man sexually assaulted his daughter. That is the

judge's task in the face of the evidence in front of him, which I

may say, having seen it, is the strongest possible kind. It is not

disputed but within one hour, during which he was simply in the care of

the father, this child suffered injury. Signs of injury, bleeding

from the nose, and from the behind, and there is very little surprise

that the judge held as he did. I am merely commenting upon what seems to

be the strength of the case as the judge found it was indeed a strong

case. Will we see more opening up of this particular division of the

legal system? The trend is to be as open as possible, and under the

present president, it is moving towards that. I would say we are

getting to a situation, and Babs this case is a symptom of it, people

are questioning whether it may go too far, whether there should be a

rowing back. -- and perhaps this case is a symptom. Steps have been

taken so far, they have been taken not only with the approval of but

with the urging of the press, and it has been treated as a matter of open

justice as to whether family proceedings should take place in

private as they used to do in the past, or should be publicised. Thank

you very much for speaking with us. There has been an inquest, there

will be a fresh inquest, ordered by the Attorney General, ordered into

the death of Poppi Worthington, that is expected later this year,

Independent Police Complaints Commission is investigating Cumbria

police for the investigations they carried out in the months after

Poppi Worthington's death. And a little later in the programme

we'll hear how children's lives could be being put at risk by family

courts when they order young people to remain in contact with abusive

parents - that's according to Women's Aid. We'll have the details.

Unemployment in the UK has fallen again. Our business correspondent

Andy Verity can tell us more. 5.1%, lowest rate in a long time, partly

because the number of people that are working, the population in work

has grown. The workforce grew by 580,000 people, most of them were

migrant workers from the rest of the European Union, the swell the

workforce, the interesting thing, earnings are not growing as they

were, the average pay rise is slowing down, excluding bonuses, up

by just 1.9%. This is looking at the three months from September to

November and comparing them to the year before. A few months ago we

would doing better than that, chunky pay rises, inflation on the floor.

Inflation is ticking up and pay rises are ticking down.

Is that 5.1% figure in a decade? The best or lowest since figure, yes,

the lowest since before the crisis. Since 2008. Anything else? These

figures are showing the slowdown in action. This is not is what is

supposed to happen. Without boring you with too much theory, the

Phillips curve means if unemployment gets low enough, pay rises are

supposed to take off, but that keeps on not happening. The Bank of

England's theory is saying when unemployment gets low enough, you

reach a critical point. Mark Carney said he would not think of raising

interest rates unless it got below 7%. Now it is 5.1 and they are not

interest rates unless it got below raising interest rates, so that

theory is in question. Firstly, there is less union bargaining

power, so they cannot push wages up like they used to. Employers are

saying, inflation is on the floor, why should I pay you 3% because you

are still getting a real terms pay rise. But that real terms pay rise

unfortunately looks like it is shrinking.

And we'll be speaking about these figures to the Minister of State

for Employment, Priti Patel, a little later at 10 o'clock.

At the height of the refugee crisis last year lots of you told us that

you'd be prepared to open up your home to take in migrants

Next we'll meet someone who actually did that.

Karen is a foster carer in Yorkshire who decided to offer a home

to Javed, a 14-year-old who fled Afghanistan on his own to escape

Javad isn't his real name, but he's one of thousands

of unaccompanied minors who arrive in Europe on their own

Save the Children want the Government to take

But first our reporter Nicola Beckford met Karen,

her 7-year-old son Blake and Javed, who speaks little English.

His identity is protected because his asylum application

Can you just chop the onion for me, please?

But mind your fingers, won't you? Just be careful.

How was football, Javed? Football?

Football, was it good? Very good.

Did you score any goals? Three.

Were you playing outside or inside? Outside.

This is yummy. OK, thank you.

Sit on the step and watch if you want.

I got a phone call to see if I wanted to look after a refugee,

13-year-old boy, which at the beginning of my fostering

journey I never thought I would end up looking after a teenage boy.

But without hesitation I would foster a refugee again,

and foster a teenage boy, because it's been nothing

but positive, the impact on the family.

The way he's just fitted in, he's a lovely, happy boy.

He's brought nothing but happiness, really.

Sit down properly. Is this mushroom?

TRANSLATION: I came from France to UK not like a normal passenger,

Because I had no documents to the show to the driver

and I had no money or travel tickets.

Every day we went to train station looking for a chance of how to get

I was nervous, the things you think...

I was worried about having a 13-year-old boy in the house,

how will I manage if there is any challenging behaviour?

Knowing he's grown up in war, will that affect his behaviour?

So I was very nervous, because there's just myself

and my seven-year-old son in the house.

But I spoke to the previous foster carer where he'd been for a few

weeks and she reassured me what a lovely boy he was.

And we met him first, he came for tea and we had

I knew from the minute I met him that it was a perfect fit.

What's the difference between living in Afghanistan and living here?

TRANSLATION: Life is totally different.

But I want to say something about the people of the UK.

Their behaviour is very good with us.

They are very ethical and they respect us,

our religion and culture, and I really like that.

In Afghanistan, our life is very basic and simple.

There is a dishwasher, washing machine, cooking appliances.

Each and every thing surprises me. Everything is different and amazing.

Just him getting used to our ways and us getting used to his ways.

He has a halal diet, so it's sorting food for him and just finding out

He's so polite that I could tell sometimes he wasn't enjoying

Does he have good English? If he doesn't, how is that working?

His English is getting better every day.

He works really hard at school and really wants to learn English.

We spend time going through books and playing word games

He's just surrounded by it, so he does pick it up very quickly.

Do you want cereal? Do you want toast?

Show him what cereal was. Sometimes we've made mistakes.

Do you want pizza or pasta? He said pizza but he meant pasta.

So there's been a few mistakes along the way.

TRANSLATION: Karen is treating me like a son.

She has given me a place in her own family.

Not only in her family but also in her heart.

She provides me with all the opportunities so I will be

a good person in the future and a good young boy.

We have a Home Office interview coming up,

He doesn't yet feel secure because he has no idea what's

I don't feel secure because I don't know what's going to happen.

I'm worried about the interview, I'm worried what's going

to happen, if he can stay after this interview,

He just wants a peaceful life with no war.

He's like a son to me and I don't want...to lose him.

I've got two sons now. My son loves him and I love him.

I want him to be safe and secure, and to stay with us as a family.

TRANSLATION: I'm quite happy here. It's a different country.

Here, you are put into foster care and become

If it was possible to adopt him, I would adopt him.

To give him the support and security.

He said he has nightmares, he said the journey here

was horrendous but he said it would all be worth it if he knew

Just to take that stress away from him, because

the insecurity of not knowing what your future holds...

He's happy here, doing really well at school.

He's got friends. He's playing football.

He's got a nice, good, happy life here.

I feel like he could contribute a lot.

TRANSLATION: I'm quite optimistic about my future.

It will be very bright and I'm very keen to become a footballer.

Some people might think, well, there's loads of kids in this

country who need families, foster families.

I just think every child needs looking after.

They need help just as much as children in this country.

Yeah, sometimes I worry that I've only got four years

left with him and it is a big fear that I have.

I'm not sure how aware he is that that's a possibility.

Yes, it does bother me. It worries me.

It would just be like losing a son, really -

I've got two sons now and I couldn't bear to think...

He's got a home for life here and I want

And you can watch that film again on our programme

After half past ten we will hear more from the Save the Children call

for the government to take in 3000 extra child refugees. Now it is time

for the weather. Freezing cold this morning, I could see Orion as I

walked out of the House. Yes, we have got a thermometer and the

temperature has been going up and down in a short space of time in the

car. When I set off this morning at the top of the hill it was close to

freezing and at the bottom it was -7 or minus eight. Cold air is dense

and dense air tends to fall to the bottom of valleys like this. This is

where we saw those temperatures in the morning of -7 degrees. At the

top of the hill we have higher temperatures by night, the opposite

of what you see. My car had a bit of a shock when it got to the bottom of

the valley. But at the weekend warm air sweeps in and it is almost a

teacher were there. A short cold spell, but we are not there yet.

It got down to -11 degrees in the north of Scotland. A fair bit of

cloud in Scotland this afternoon. Some brightness, but not a lot. More

chance of sunshine in Northern Ireland. For most of England and

Wales it is another chilly day with highs of two or three degrees. Where

you have got freezing fog patches it will not get much above zero. The

frost returns with a vengeance tonight. The lowest temperatures in

Central and eastern areas. This is where we will see some fog patches

forming as well. In the rural areas we will get down to -6 or minus

seven. Further west it is not so cold because of that cloud and

patchy rain. The weather front is beginning to gear up and we are

going to see an Atlantic influence which sweeps in at the weekend. The

first sign of that will be on Thursday. It will be pushing into

the western fringes. There will be high snow on the high ground of

Scotland. As we go through Thursday night and into Friday it is all

change because proper wet and windy weather will sweep in from the west.

For most of us it is the wind and the rain which we will notice. That

clears through and then you will notice that the temperatures will

bounce back. This weekend we will see further frontal systems coming

in off the Atlantic and it is business as usual if you like with

further spells of rain. We will see milder weather. We have lost the

blue colour and we gain the yellow and the orange at the weekend. It is

a short cold snap because at the weekend it will be a lot milder. It

will be breezy at times with some rain and some sunshine. We are not

there yet. A couple of cold days to come.

Hello it's Wednesday, its 10 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme if you've just joined us.

investigation into the horrific death

of 13 month old Poppi Worthingon.

A family court judge ruled she'd been sexually assaulted

by her father shortly before her death.

It is not disputed that this child suffered injury during the one-hour

that it was in the care of the father.

Also today, a mistake which led to a 10 year-old Muslim boy

being quizzed by police

after he wrote that his family lived

in a 'terrorist house' we hear from the boy's family.

at risk by family courts when they order young people

to remain in contact with abusive parents?

We'll hear one woman's heartbreaking story.

Oscar winning actor Jamie Foxx has starred in a real-life drama -

after rescuing a man from his burning vehicle.

I do not look on it as heroic, I just had to do something. It all

worked out. Unemployment stands at an eight year

low as the jobless total fell

by 99,000 But official figures show

average earnings are down, At least 19 people are reported

to have been killed after militants storm a university

in northwestern Pakistan. The Defence Secretary,

Michael Fallon, will urge his harder at what he calls the "head

of the snake" in the fight against the so-called

Islamic State in Syria. Brussels considers changes

to the rules that require refugees to claim asylum

in the first country E.On is to reduce its standard gas

price from next month of the big energy companies

for failing to pass on falling and Wales have told this programme

that British people's lives are being put at risk

because officers aren't being routinely armed

with taser guns. It's thought the National Police

Chiefs Council is meeting in Surrey A 10-year-old Muslim boy

who mistakenly wrote that he lived in a "terrorist house" when he meant

to say "terraced house" during an English lesson

at school has been And Donald Trump gets

the backing of Sarah Palin, the populist ex-governor

of Alaska and former Republican vice-presidential

candidate. The last of the non-league sides

have been knocked out of the FA Cup, Eastleigh were the last one

standing, they gave it a real go at Bolton Wanderers, going down 3-2,

taking the lead through Joe Partington, the two sides went into

the break locked at 2-2, but the side 53 places above them through

the leagues eventually went through, Darren Pratley urged the replay in

the first match with an equaliser, this time it was the winner, leaving

Eastleigh to wonder what might have been. We have been outstanding, the

cup run we have been on. The two performances against the

championship outfit have been incredible.

We were very unlucky, the boys have dug in deep, they showed great

commitment and character, the words go on. They really have done it

tonight. Here is commitment for you, over 200 Carlisle fans made the 700

mile round trip to fellow to league side -- fellow League 2 side Yeovil,

it was worth it, I got a home tie against Everton next, in a penalty

shoot out, that spot kick from Mark Ellis worth a quarter of ?1 million

to Carlisle, it will be the live match on television, all of the

goals from last night's games are on the BBC Sport website. In Scotland,

fans at Celtic Park got their money 's worth, Hamilton fans may have

asked for their money back, it finished 8-1, champions moved six

points clear at the top of the premiership, 5-0 up inside 34

minutes, Leigh Griffiths scored a hat-trick. Former tennis player who

is now coaching says that match fixing is a secret that everyone

knows on tour, and the authorities know who is doing it. Following a

BBC and Buzzfeed investigation into the allegations of illegal betting

and fixing in the sport. The tennis integrity unit has already denied

that it has suppressed evidence of fixing and corruption and has asked

the player to come forward with information. The man who wishes to

remain anonymous, told the BBC that the problem isn't just at the lower

levels of the game. When I the problem isn't just at the lower

to believe it was a few years ago, the guy told me the next result of

the next two tournaments, he told me exactly who was going to win and how

it was going to be. I thought that he was bragging about it... To make

me fall for his game... Then I was laughing when every match that he

was telling me about, it was the way that he had told me. I'm talking

about Master series! Some big names there. Against this backdrop, the

first grand slam of the year, the Australian open, continues. It's the

third day in Melbourne. World number one Serena Williams is looking to

equal Steffi Graf's Open-era record of 22 Grand Slam titles And the

defending champion is into the third round easily, after seeing off her

Taiwanese opponent. World number three Roger Federer needed barely

more than an hour and a half to beat practice partner Alexandr

Dolgopolov, Novak Djokovic is on court now, against Quentin Alyce

from France. Thank you for your messages,

particularly on Taser is, we were speaking with Steve white, chairman

of the Police Federation, for England and Wales, is calling for

police officers to be routinely armed with Tasers if they volunteer

for training because of the terror threat, because he says police

officers feel more vulnerable now, and effectively British lives will

be at risk unless that happens. " police should not have Tasers, I do

not trust them to use them safely and responsibly". " I agree, all

police should carry Tasers, these are dangerous days, they must be

able to protect themselves and Laura biding people". " we do not want

Tasers to be more widely available to police, the public will be safer

if police do not have them, they have already been misused in a

number of cases." " black and majority people are bound to have

Tasers used on them disproportionately. " You can get in

touch in the usual ways. Unemployment is at an eight year

low, as the latest figures show that the jobless total fell

by 99,000 in the three

months to November 2015. And though the number of people

claiming benefits is down, Let's talk now with Employment

Minister Priti Patel MP, who is in Westminster

for us this morning. Quite an astonishing figure, how do

you respond to that? An implant is at pre-recession lows, we have the

highest rate of employment, 74%, this is the result of the economic

decisions, the economic plan, that this government has had, the fact we

have focused and concentrated on rebuilding our economy and making

the economy one of the strongest in the G-7. We have one of the highest

rates of employment on record but we are now also seeing that wages are

growing, 2.1%, and of course, wages are now higher than prerecession

level as well. Average earnings are slowing down. We are seeing average

earnings outstripping inflation... As I have said, we have real wage

growth, we have wages growing at 2.1%, which is a good rate of

growth, and that has exceeded prerecession levels in terms of wage

growth, that means more money in people's pockets and more economic

security. Why are average earnings slowing down? We would not say

that... Less than the last set of figures. We will not comment on

trends, we have had sustained and in continuous increases in wages over

successive periods of time, the point is, wages are now at a higher

level than they were before the recession. We have more people in

work than before the recession, unemployment levels are lower than

they were, now, compared to eight years ago, and we are seeing more

jobs being created. 75% of the jobs that have now been created our

full-time jobs, more women in work, more young people in work, and this

is a reflection of a growing economy and the fact we have the right

economic conditions for businesses to grow and expand and for the more

people being implied. Can I ask you about the number of European workers

in this country, just after the coalition came to power, the

Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats in 2010, there was 1.2

million European workers in the UK, for July to September last year,

more than 2 million European workers in this country. Is that too many?

We have always been very clear that when it comes to employment in this

country, we have one of the highest rates of British people in

employment, and when it comes to people from other parts of the

world, Europe in particular, coming to work in the United Kingdom, they

work here, they are contributing to the economy, that is absolutely

important, it really is, the fact they are an employment, and paying

taxes and contributing to the economy, that is a reflection of the

growing economy that we have and the strength of the economy. The

strength of the labour market. -- the fact they are in employment. Any

one day of the week we have in excess of three quarters of a

million vacancies in job centres, so we have a record number of

employment vacancies, bringing you back to the point, that is a

reflection of a strong and healthy and growing economy, and with a

strong economy, we have more employment being created. Of course

we will have more people in work and as we have seen, you have

highlighted yourself, people from Europe in the United Kingdom are in

employment, they are working and contributing to the economy. Can I

ask you about the European referendum. Are you going to

campaign to leave? I have been clear, not just this morning, but I

have repeatedly said, our manifesto is to have a referendum by the end

of 2017 but also renegotiate our relationship with the European Union

is the status quo is not an option, the Prime Minister is focused on

renegotiating our relationship, fundamentally, it is not for me to

decide whether or not we stay in or leave, it is for the British people

to decide, that is right and what we said at the time of the general

election, those are the manifesto commitments, that we will give a

referendum and ultimately they will decide whether or not we should stay

in Europe or leave the European Union. The go-ahead has been given

for ministers to make their own decision about whether they campaign

and which side they will be campaigning for, I will ask you if

you are campaigning to leave Europe? I want a renegotiation, I am

supporting that, I will be clear about that and I will continue to

say that... There is four areas... I will not give a running commentary

and speculate... I'm asking about your own thought process. The Prime

Minister is leading on the renegotiation, the reforms we all

want to see in terms of the UK relationship with the European

Union, and of course, he will declare, he will announce that when

he comes back from a future European Council, and people will make up

their own minds and ultimately, the British public will decide whether

or not we stay in Europe or leave the European Union. Thank you very

much for speaking with us. Actor Jamie Frost has pulled a man

from a burning car. He helped to drag the man out of his car, the

latest boat with police and the father of the man that he helped. I

do not look at it as heroic. I had to do something. Now Oscar-winning

actor Jamie Foxx often plays super villains and antiheroes on screen in

films like Spiderman or Django unchained - but now he's played the

role of a hero after he pulled a man from aburning truck moments before

it became engulfed in flames near his Southern California home. I told

him, as we were talking, I said, listen, as I am getting him out, I

said, you have got to help me, I do not want to leave you. I said, you

have got angels around you full top Police said the vehicle went off the

road then went into a ditch, rolling over multiple times and becoming

engulfed in flames with a male driver trapped inside. The actor

said he heard the crash from his house, called the emergency

services, and ran to the scene. He then helped drag the man out of his

car. He later spoke to police and the father of the man he helped. I

was just thinking, my goodness, my God, he did not have to do a thing.

We all hope that we could do something when the time is there,

but the question is, do we act? Do we fear for our own lives? He did

not fear for his own life, he did act. We have some pictures of the

rescue. Jamie Foxx ran from his home, to that accident, and managed

to help get the man out who was trapped inside, before the vehicle

became engulfed in flames. Coming up: we hear from the family

of a 10-year old Muslim boy who was questioned by police after he

mistakenly wrote that he lived in a terraced house instead of a terraced

house(!) Children's lives are being put

at risk by family courts when they order young people

to remain in contact That's according to Women's Aid

who're launching a new campaign aimed at putting what they call

"the safety of children back" at the heart

of the family court. They say that 19 children have been

intentionally killed by a parent who was also a known perpetrator

of domestic abuse between 2005 and 2015 and that unsafe child

contact arrangements could have Hilary Fisher is director

of policy for Women's Aid. Jane Wilson is domestic

abuse lead at Resolution, an organisation of more than 6,000

family lawyers in England and Wales. But first let's speak

to Claire Throssell. She joins us from our

studio in Salford. were killed by her former partner

Darren Sykes in October 2014. I'm grateful for your time. You were

married to this man for 15 years, I think I'm right in saying that he

became controlling and emotionally abusive after your children were

born, can you give us an insight into his behaviour?

He had a really bad tempered that he could not control and he had had

management of anger sessions that helped him a little bit, but after

the boys were born in the controlling behaviour happened again

and it got worse and worse. He was emotionally abusive to the boys and

quite physical. By 2014, the marriage was over.

You took the decision to leave, what was his behaviour after that? It got

worse and he tried to use the children as possessions. But the

bond was not there and the boys were very frightened of him. He said the

year before that in a tragic incident a father had shot his

children and then himself and he said he understood how the father

had felt. What did you do about that when he said that? As soon as I went

to my solicitor I raised it straightaway and it was the same

with social services and I continually said that I was worried

for the boys' well-being and safety. You went to the organisation that is

the voice of children in the family courts who represent the child in

any process like that. Yes. What was the action of social services when

you said you were worried about his state and possibly fearful? They

came out and did an assessment and Paul had made the disclosure at

school about an incident that had happened with his dad and contact

was completely stopped. I took him through the family Court in July

because he still had parental rights, he was their father. There

were taking it as more of a custody battle rather than the children

being really at risk. They were still well fed, they were attending

school, they were achieving at school, I looked after them, and

they did not take it as seriously as they should have done. Can I ask you

about the day your boys went to see their father and the day they lost

their lives? Yes. Can you tell our audience about what happened? I know

it is incredibly difficult and I know you can talk about this, which

is why we invited you onto the programme, but I appreciate it is

very difficult. Yes. The Wednesday morning of the 22nd of October

started out like any other day. I dropped the boys off at school and I

said, I love you, just like every day and they replied like they

always did and they were going on and access visit at two hours that

night. Paul did not want to go, but I persuaded him and encouraged him

to go because there was a court order in place. I was at work and I

got a call from the organisation and they said, keep an eye on the boys.

The interview with my ex-husband had not gone very well with them and he

had been aggressive and he had kept the officer from leaving the room. I

got home, I had missed the boys by about five minutes. Then the

doorbell rang and I had just finished my tea and my mum said,

that is the boys back early. I said no, it cannot be, they would have

run in and they would have run into my arms and it always did when they

came back from a visit because they were nervous and frightened. I

opened the door and there was a local police officer at the door and

he had a serious look on his face and his lights were flashing and he

said, there has been an incident at your former home involving the boys,

there has been a fire. I said, he has done it. The police would not

give any details, obviously, at that time. I got through to the

Children's Hospital and when to the resuscitation room and I saw Paul

having CPR on him. The consultant said, we are withdrawing treatment

now, there is nothing more we can do for him. I held him in my arms and

he looked at me and smiled. Then the light went out of his eyes and he

fell asleep in my arms. So, I did not get to see how they were from

the visit. The last time I saw them I was holding them as they died.

Jack had tried to save his brother, tried to get him out of the attic,

and he had come through the hatch of the attic and he was still conscious

when the firemen finally entered the property because the House had been

barricaded. His last words, were, he did it on purpose. It turned out to

be his dying testament. I had to leave Paul in Sheffield Children's

Hospital and go with Jack to the critical burns unit in Manchester.

But five days later Jack had a cardiac arrest and he also died in

my arms. It is unimaginable what you have experienced and utterly,

utterly heartbreaking. I know a serious case review was carried out

and it said your former husband's actions could not have been

predicted and the evidence was not sufficient to make agencies believe

he posed a threat to himself, to his children, to anybody. What did you

make of that? Well, my answer to that, from the serious case review,

is if the officer had not felt scared in his presence, how did they

think my children would feel on their own with him when they were

just 12 and nine, just little boys. I want to bring in Hilary Fisher,

also Jane Wilson from Resolution, an organisation of success and family

lawyers in England and Wales. This case is just unimaginable for most

people watching. Tell us about the campaign that you are launching

which will mean perhaps cases like that will not happen. Absolutely. I

want to thank Claire so much for being able to tell us her horrific

story. Unfortunately, she is not alone. We have lodged a report today

and most of them are avoidable deaths. The direction which requires

courts to look into whether or not there has been domestic violence and

if it has put the safety of the children and the usually non-abusing

mother, has to be put at the height of this. It needs to happen

everywhere. We need a national, independent oversight to ensure that

this happens because these deaths should not be happening. In terms of

the family court system, it is adversarial, it can be adversarial.

Sometimes allegations of domestic abuse are levelled at one parent or

the other in order to stop that parents seeing the children.

Sometimes those allegations are not true, that happens. How is the

family court judge supposed to work out what is the truth? They have got

to make a decision as to whether what has been alleged has happened.

If the alleged perpetrator admits it, then that issue is resolved at

that point as to whether there has been the abuse. Otherwise there has

to be a hearing and in effect a trial in which the judge listens to

the evidence of the sufferer and the evidence of the alleged perpetrator

and make a decision. What is concerning now that legal aid has

been reduced if there is the risk that domestic abuse sufferers will

be in court without representation and the alleged perpetrators will be

there without representation and the way evidence is tested is by

cross-examination by one of the other. I domestic abuse sufferer has

reduced confidence levels because of years of abuse. It will be very

difficult for them to carry cross-examination themselves.

Sometimes we do not even get to a hearing like that. Clare reported

her concerns to shelter workers and others and there was no hearing. How

could action had been taken at the time when Claire had reported her

fears? You have to think about what is happening when somebody talks

about domestic abuse and ensure that people hearing is understand what

the person is talking about. There is a new offence of course of

control would get at the heart of domestic abuse and it is ongoing,

incidents can be psychological and physical over a period of time.

Women are suffering post-traumatic stress disorder as a result of this

violence and they are expected to stand up in court and respond to

that. We are saying look immediately and identify what is happening. We

have a case in the criminal courts and in the family courts it is not

being recognised or reduced. This idea that a violent man can still be

a good father, this does seems to be lack of clarity in some courts. The

view is they can still be a good dad if they are removed from the

ex-partner? Yes, 12 of the perpetrators in our report continued

the abuse after the separation. We know from organisations who work

with families that perpetrators use the family courts to continue the

abuse because it is about power and control. You have the judge saying

this is an issue of custody and not recognising what is happening. There

needs to be proper training. I have interviewed a number of family court

judges who have recently left their position. They are not lofty people

who are out of touch. They absolutely care most about the

child. The child is at the forefront of their minds. They listen to what

the children say. It is not happening in every case. The reason

we are launching this group is that that is what the members of our

group has said is the most important thing for survivors. There are 220

organisations that run domestic violence services across England and

this is what we hear about from survivors. There will be women

listening to this who will be concerned about what is happening to

them and I would ask them to call the helpline that we run in

partnership with Refuge. There is help out there and we can help them.

Jack never got his voice heard and the date Jack was supposed to be

having his interview was the day he passed away in my arms. I did not

know that. Clare, thank you for telling us that. I have messages for

you from people watching you around the UK. This tweet says, I hope this

woman gets justice for being so let down.

I want to hug her. Tony says, is a loving parent that is the hardest

story I have ever had to listen to, so tragic.

Another tweet, I cannot believe what has happened to this woman. My heart

is breaking for her, she is so brave.

Kennedy says, this story shows what warm, generous people we are and

when you give a child a chance, they grasp it.

I cannot put into words the admiration for Claire's strength and

resilience. Thank you for coming on to our programme. Thank you. Hilary

Fisher, thank you, Jane Wilson, domestic abuse lead at Resolution.

The independent chair of the safeguarding children board say they

had carried out a review which said the death of the children was an

unlawful killing and there was no knowledge of it being an

identifiable risk. We hear from the family of a

10-year-old Muslim boy who was quizzed by police after he

mistakenly wrote that he lived in a "terrorist house"

instead of a "terraced house." Unemployment stands at an eight year

low, as the jobless total fell by 99,000 between September and

November. But official figures show average earnings are down, compared

to this time last year. At least 19 people are reported to have been

killed after militants stormed a university in northwestern Pakistan.

The army says four gunmen have been shot dead during the attack near

Peshawar. Our correspondent Shahzeb Jillani is in Karachi - what's the

latest? In the last hour, the Pakistani army

chief, has arrived at the campus to see for himself the aftermath of the

gun battle between four militants and security guards. At least 50

people were wounded, 20 were killed. Among those killed, students, staff

members, a university professor, and the army is now saying they have

cleared the area, they have conducted a search and rescue

operation, the commandos fought the gunmen. They have cleared the area

and they hope they will get more details of what really happened. Is

there any idea at this early stage of who the militants, who the

gunmen, were? Early in the day we heard a claim by Pakistan Taliban

which has later been denied, we know that the Taliban have previously

attacked schools in similar fashion, if you remember last December, a

horrific attack, at a school in Peshawar province, 50 people were

killed, most of them were children. This is a similar kind of attack.

Again, a soft target for these Islamist militants, which the

Pakistani army has been battling for more than a year and a half.

The Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, will urge his

counterparts in Paris today to hit harder at what he calls the "head

of the snake" in the fight against the so-called

E.On is to reduce its standard gas price from next month

following mounting criticism of the big energy companies

for failing to pass on falling wholesale prices to consumers.

The Police Federation in England and Wales have told this programme

that British people's lives are being put at risk

because officers aren't being routinely armed

It's thought the National Police Chiefs Council is meeting in Surrey

A 10-year-old Muslim boy who mistakenly wrote that he lived

when he meant to say "terraced house"

during a lesson at school has been investigated by police.

Donald Trump gets the backing of Sarah Palin,

the populist ex-governor of Alaska and former

Republican vice-presidential candidate.

The last non-league side was knocked out of the FA Cup last night,

Eastleigh went down fighting, in the third round replay, taking the lead

against Bolton of the championship, losing 3-2 in the end. 210 Carlisle

fans in made the 700 mile round-trip to Theo Viltz were well rewarded,

winning on penalties to earn a fourth-round tie against Everton,

because the game will be televised, it will be worth a quarter of ?1

million to the club. Two more replays tonight, the last of them,

Liverpool against Exeter, and Leicester City against Tottenham

Hotspur, which is live on the BBC. Celtic are six points clear again in

the Scottish Premiership, after an 8-1 thrashing of Hamilton, including

a hat-trick from Leigh Griffiths. In the Scottish Cup, Inverness

Caledonian Thistle won their fourth round replay over part-timers

Stirling Albion - two nil. They'll travel to Motherwell next. -- 2-1.

-- 2-0. And the World Number One and defending champion Serena Williams

is into the third round at the Australian Open, she beat Taiwan's

Shay Sue-way in straight sets. Roger Federer was also through overnight.

are thought to have arrived in Europe last year unaccompanied

and on their own most fleeing war torn countries.

Save the Children are calling on the govt in this country to offer

a home for 3000 of those vulnerable and unaccompanied children.

We've been to meet one of them, Javed, who's now 14 and has been

living with a foster carer in Yorkshire

Can you just chop the onion for me, please?

But mind your fingers, won't you? Just be careful.

How was football, Javed? Football?

Football, was it good? Very good.

Did you score any goals? Three.

Were you playing outside or inside? Outside.

This is yummy. OK, thank you.

Sit on the step and watch if you want.

I got a phone call to see if I wanted to look after a refugee,

13-year-old boy, which at the beginning of my fostering

journey I never thought I would end up looking after a teenage boy.

But without hesitation I would foster a refugee again,

and foster a teenage boy, because it's been nothing

but positive, the impact on the family.

The way he's just fitted in, he's a lovely, happy boy.

He's brought nothing but happiness, really.

Sit down properly. Is this mushroom?

No, it's chicken. Yay, chicken!

TRANSLATION: I came from France to UK not like a normal passenger,

Because I had no documents to the show to the driver

and I had no money or travel tickets.

Every day we went to train station looking for a chance of how to get

I was nervous, the things you think...

I was worried about having a 13-year-old boy in the house,

how will I manage if there is any challenging behaviour?

Knowing he's grown up in war, will that affect his behaviour?

So I was very nervous, because there's just myself

and my seven-year-old son in the house.

But I spoke to the previous foster carer where he'd been for a few

weeks and she reassured me what a lovely boy he was.

And we met him first, he came for tea and we had

I knew from the minute I met him that it was a perfect fit.

So many of you have been getting in touch with us. " inspiring

conversation with the foster mother of the refugee proving refugees are

people, not numbers". You can watch and share the full

film on our programme So many of you getting in touch

with us about Karen and Javed. Save The Children estimate at least

26,000 children arrived in Europe in 2015 without their mums or dads,

that's double the number in 2014. In the UK, the most recent official

figures show that there were 2,564 asylum applications

from unaccompanied Asylum-Seeking Children in the year ending

September 2015 an increase of 50% from the year before

to just over 1,700. We can speak with Kirsty Mackay

meal, from Save the children, who is calling for the British government

are taking 3000 unaccompanied children, Lord dubs, who believes

Britain should do more commonly arrive in Britain from Prague at the

age of six after the beginning of the Second World War and was one of

660 Jewish children to be rescued by Sir Nicholas Winton, often called

the British Schindler. And we can also speak with someone who fled the

country of Afghanistan to this country. People have had a terrible

time all over this world, and we have an obligation as part of Europe

to take out share of the responsibility and be a great asset.

We can do it. It is a small number, of course we can do it, the British

people have responded very well. It is win-win. You said farewell to

your own mother in Prague to come to Britain in the rescue efforts

organised by Sir Nicholas Winton, some people will not be aware of

your efforts, I know that you say this is not about you, but tell us

your story. At the age of six I was in Prague, I was put on the

Kindertransport, the father had escaped the country immediately when

the Nazis occupied and my mother put me on the Kindertransport, and I

arrived in London. I was very lucky. This country gave me a fantastic

welcome, gave me tremendous opportunities, I believe that other

children should be given the same opportunities as I was given.

Stephen, thank you for speaking with us, from Strasbourg. Does this

debate change for you when you talk about unaccompanied children from

across Europe trying to flee war-torn countries? If you are

asking if we have a responsibility as a country, signatories to the

United Nations Convention on the rights for children, also signing up

rights for looking after asylum seekers and an active policy that

issue we will take around 50,000 asylum seekers, then I think you are

quite right, we have that responsibility. When we are looking

at the policy and the people coming in, do we have to make choices in

terms of the numbers of who should come here? Once again, we are in

agreement in relation to children coming first. What we know about the

children is it cost ?50,000 per year, that is a budget of 150

million to 200 million, that is the range, to take in the 3000

suggested. Arrogant tension is that if we are going to take in children

we do not have finite resources in this country, we also have children

of our own that need to be looked after. -- our suggestion. -- our

contention. We have got to look at who else can come into this country

because we cannot take everybody that is here. If I make one final

point, we are not just talking about 24,000 in Europe, United Nations

estimates that 19.5 million refugees are currently around the world, 51%,

nearly 10 million of them, our children. We have a responsibility

not only to people here but to those children. We should recognise we

have finite resources in which we can deal with this. I want to... I

want to press you on... I understand what you are saying about choices,

but on the number 3000, is that too much, for you? I'm not sure, we can

say whether it is too much or too little, we are expected to take

20,000 from the camps, that is the right policy to be taking those

young people in, but if you are taking 20,000, you have got to ask

yourself, should the first 3000 be children, you want to take 4000, but

then the numbers of those others that can come, we have got to ensure

that we are analysing who comes over, perhaps it should not be young

men of working age, we should be taking young women, children, the

sick, the elderly, that is the consideration we have to make, with

Cologne in mind. Take it in a global context of how many we will take in,

we cannot take everybody, therefore, we should choose what number we

have, and in which criteria. The government have said they will

take 20,000 vulnerable Syrian refugees, over five years, and we

are looking at children who are among the most vulnerable, and I

think we have an obligation, a humanitarian obligation, to do that.

I think we should. Other countries, the Germans, they are taking many

more, and the Germans have virtually become the conscience of Europe,

setting a standard. We can do better than we are doing without damaging

our own people, without belittling. We can put children the foster care,

it will work well. You are partly in support, I welcome your partial

support. What I am saying, I can finish with that, we are in

agreement, but it is not just 20,000 that we are going to take, that

maybe the government in relation to Syria, but take the whole asylum

context, it will still be 50,000 this year, and that is an increase

over the last five years. The 4000 new talk about made well be part of

that but we are still taking in a lot more than we have done over the

past few years. You cannot devolve this away from the overall numbers

of immigration coming into the country, which is where costs are

involved. -- the 4000 you talk about. -- may well be part of that.

You were smuggled into this country at the age of 13 by human

traffickers, why? I left Afghanistan like many Afghanis and Syrians

because of war, and it took me a year to get to Britain. Arrested in

prison, at the age of 12, here I am. The point about taking refugees, it

is a moral obligation, not only legal, it is moral, but those people

need hope, they come to Europe with hope. Because they have been

oppressed, they are running away from wars and conflict, we are not

showing compassion. We should do more. We should see them not as a

burden but as an investment. It would cost ?50,000 per child per

year. This would be only 3000 children in total and Britain has

done this before. During the kindred transport we took 10,000 Jewish

children to save them from Nazi persecution. In the past this

country could take 10,000. The person is only a part of that and it

is manageable. No one is saying Britain should do the whole of the

refugee crisis on their own, but if we all do a little, to get that we

can do a lot. Written can afford it in terms of the financial side of

things? We believe so and compared to other countries Britain needs to

do more for people already in Europe. We welcome the Prime

Minister's announcement to take women and children from that camps

in Syria, but it does not do any thing from the people your viewers

are seeing on their TV screens, people already in Europe. It is

minus five degrees this morning and there are children who are cold and

hungry and alone and afraid and they are right to be afraid. It is

terrifying to sleep rough or sleep in a park or train station on your

own without parents to look after you. This has a great tradition,

this country to protect people who need it and we believe 3000 children

could get a safe home in Britain. What could happen to some of those

children if they do not get some kind of sanctuary in Britain or in

Europe? I have been through what she is describing. I was there on my own

and I show gratitude and I am in debt to Britain for taking me in. It

has taken me five years to get refugee status and five years to get

citizenship and I am grateful. If you do not take them, they will die.

4000 children died last year. People are faced with extraordinary

circumstances. Parents would not send their children away and it is a

huge sacrifice they are making. We need to show compassion and

humanitarian willingness to take these children in. We have wars in

Libya, Iraq and Syria and we have this responsibility. Britain could

do more. They could pressure other countries, the Arab world countries,

to do more. They have the money and the re-sources. Bahrain is not doing

anything because Britain is not doing enough to persuade them to do

more. If we do not take them, we are letting our future generation down.

I am thinking about what I was doing when I was 12. I cannot imagine

making the journey you made aged 12 and I cannot imagine saying goodbye

to my mother aged six. You had to do that to preserve your life. That is

extraordinary. Let's think about that for a moment. Precisely. I have

written a book about my journey and my story to share with people that

they could be better educated about the circumstances in the first

place. Why do children risk their lives and come 12,000 miles for

safety Westerman what should we do when they come here? That is not the

end. I went through so much hardship. There are children who are

young, the immigration does not have to give you status. There are about

2000 people in the UK who are struggling because local authorities

will not take them and there is no centralised system for the

government to force these people to go into local authorities. It is

manageable, but there is no political will. We are forgetting

what this amazing country stands for. Diversity and multiculturalism.

When I came from central Europe Britain was the only country that

would take unaccompanied children and Britain set a fantastic example

at that time and I think we can do the same now. Thank you all very

much for your time. I am going to leave it there, thank you very much

for your contribution. Stephen Wolf is from Ukip and Kirsty McNeill is

from Save the Children. is from Ukip and Kirsty McNeill is

Your comments are all about Karen the foster mother in Yorkshire.

Jones says, as I watch this foster mother I feel so selfish.

Another says people are complaining about children needing fostering,

why don't they apply? Diane says there are children in

this country but they did not cross continents to be safe. Please have a

heart, people. A 10-year-old Muslim boy

who mistakenly wrote that he lived in a "terrorist house"

during an English lesson at school The boy, who goes to a primary

school in Lancashire, meant to say he lived

in a "terraced house". He and his family were visited

by Lancashire Police at their home in December and the family

laptop was examined. No further action was taken,

but the boy's family said they were left shocked and now want

both the school and police The only views he had

from the family are sympathies toward Syria, which is appalling

and what happened in Paris We are more appalled

by what is happening in the name of Islam and by people who call

themselves Muslims and my uncle and aunty are bringing up

the children to see the goodness in Islam and not see

these extremist views. With me now is our

correspondent Lisa Hampele. How did this happen? You heard from

the boy's cousin. We are not naming them, but she went on to say to

start with the family thought this was a joke. The boy had written in

school, in his primary school, he is ten, that he lived in a terrorist

house. It was a spelling mistake and they thought he had meant to say a

terraced house. They thought it was to do with terrorism and it was the

very next day when the police went to his house and they interviewed

him and they looked at the family laptop. The cousin you have just

heard from said they thought it was a joke to start with. But he stopped

eating, he became isolated and he hid under a blanket and they were

all really worried for him. The school contacted the police and the

school have a legal duty to do that. That is right, that is the 2015

Counterterrorism and Security Act which came in in July 20 15.

Teachers and schools are obliged, just like the NHS and universities,

anywhere where there are young people, they are obliged to tell if

they feel there is a problem with terrorism. This is part of the

Prevent programme. But the family want an apology. They say it is not

good enough and they should have realised it was a spelling mistake

and they should have asked him. Thank you very much.

The Police Federation in England and Wales are saying that people's lives

are put at risk because police officers are not armed with tasers.

They say all officers should be given the chance to have a stun gun.

Here is a reminder of how they work. Get down. This is an electrical

device and when it is deployed it releases two wires with barbs on the

end. It releases a charge of 50,000 faults and that temporarily

incapacitates a person. It is important to stress that the

electrical current is less than the typical Christmas tree light.

The National police chief counsel has told us that the number of

tasered trained officers is being discussed by Chief constables today.

But the roll-out of tasers to all officers is not being recommended as

an all-out option. Here is what the representative of the Police

Federation said earlier. These are the people who run towards a danger

when others are running away. They feel but honourable. Over many years

we have seen the value that taser gun can bring. The public see the

value. It is less than lethal option. At the moment officers carry

weapons that can cause serious injury and death. Taser gun filled

that gap. It means you can gain control and deal with people

effectively and quickly without causing injury, without resorting to

even more violence. You say police officers are feeling vulnerable.

More vulnerable than usual? Absolutely. The risks police

officers are facing now are greater than at any time, certainly in my

service. We have seen intelligence assessments that suggest that. The

terror threat in Britain has been severe, the second-highest, for 18

months now. That is despite Charlie Hebdo and what we saw in Paris in

November and despite the Russian airliner being shot down. That is

one aspect of it. The day-to-day deployment of police officers, with

16,000 fewer cops on the street is now, you have got vulnerability in

terms of' ruin and getting to an incident. We have seen cases in

Thames Valley and Leytonstone where the real value of having officers

equipped and able to respond to incidents and use the device

effectively is of huge valley. Rather than calling in firearms

officers which may take 15 minutes or longer? Exactly, or dealing with

the threat in a different way which might involve potentially lethal

force or force that would cause injury to the officer, the suspect

or the public. Steve White, the chairman of the Police Federation.

Breaking News from West Midlands police. They say a 28-year-old woman

from Coventry has been arrested on suspicion of Syria related terrorism

offences. She was detained at an address in the city but officers

from the force's counterterrorism unit.

On taser guns, many comments from you. Most are not into the idea of

police officers being routinely armed with them.

Scott says they are a great tool to help police in a country with no

respect for the law. Ryan says it adds news.

Someone says a large number of the public have undiagnosed heart

conditions. With the please accept liability for these deaths after the

use of taser guns? We will see you tomorrow, have a

very