15/02/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Monday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

Is football's world governing body Fifa beyond saving?

It's been mired in scandal after scandal and allegations

This really is the World Cup of fraud, and today we are issuing

Elections take place next week to find a new President to succeed

Sepp Blatter after he was banned him for eight years

Mr Blatter's leadership style was to let people who were loyal

and supportive, you know, near the trough.

They were able to reap the rewards, and not to push the analogy too far,

but that is pretty Mafiosi in strategy.

Our line-up of guests including former international,

David Ginola and chair of the FA, Greg Dyke,

tell us whether they think Fifa can ever regain credibility and trust.

Do get in touch with your views throughout the morning.

Coming up later - claims the NHS is failing many mental health

patients in England to such an extent that "lives

We'll get reaction from people receiving psychiatric care.

This morning, we're going to spend the next hour or so debating one

of the biggest, richest and most important sporting bodies

It was founded in 1904 and is effectively in charge

of world football and in particular the World Cup.

Their motto is "for the game, for the world".

But following allegation after allegation of bribery,

corruption or just simply a five-star, all expenses paid

luxurious lifestyle for its top bosses -

you'd be forgiven for thinking their objective was more

about lining their own pockets - for some of them at least.

So today we wanted to dedicate a chunk of the programme to asking

what the future of Fifa is, if it's fit for purpose and if any

football supporter will ever trust it again after so many scandals

As always your contributions are very welcome,

Elections take place on February 26th to find a new man,

and it will be a man, to become the new President of Fifa,

attracting a reported salary of around ?6 million.

We were due to host a debate today with five candidates who want to be

Sepp Blatter's successor, but we cancelled it after some

of them tried to move the goalposts and issue demands

about what we could and couldn't ask them.

That has definitely not happened with the guests who are here today.

David Ginola, who played for France and Spurs. He campaigned to host the

World Cup in 2018 and attempted to run the Fifa president. Also, a

former England goalkeeper who retired last year and played for

Liverpool ladies and Everton ladies. Greg Dyke is the chairman of

England's FA. We have the head of Sierra Leone's FA and has been a

supporter of Sep Blatter. Damian Collins, a Conservative MP, founding

member of the campaign group, New Fifa Now, calling for reforms. Also

we have two supporters who say they feel massively let down by Fifa. We

have a sport's writer with a Daily Telegraph and Richard Conway, our

very own sports correspondent. This is the last five years of Fifa

history condensed into five minutes. The vote for the Fifa World Cup is

Qatar. In 2010, Russia and Qatar staged the rights to secure the 2018

and 2022 World Cup 's. The recriminations and scandal the Fifa

since then has been relentless. 11 of the men who made those decisions

have been fined, banned, suspended or are under investigation for some

way for a variety of different reasons. That has led many to

question the integrity of the vote for the kata and Russia World Cups.

2018 Fifa World Cup will be organised in Russia. Both countries

deny any wrongdoing and said they always acted within the rules. But

Fifa's troubles were only just getting started. Our top News story

reports six officials from Fifa, including the vice president have

been arrested at a hotel in Switzerland. In the last hour news

has emerged from the police about raids in S. Last year, was acute as

led to a series of raids that led to the arrest of individuals. Those

arrested included high-ranking Fifa officials, including one of its vice

presidents, Geoffrey Webb. The scale and audacity of the alleged fraud is

staggering. The 47 count indictment includes charges of racketeering,

wire fraud and money-laundering conspiracy spanning two decades.

This really is the World Cup of fraud and today we are issuing Fifa

a red card. Jack Warner is accused of asking and receiving $10 million

from South Africa. They both deny the allegation. A BBC investigation

last month shows how he is supposed to have moved the cash around his

business empire in support of South Africa's bid. The US authorities are

continuing their investigations. There are accusations $750,000

intended to help survivors of an earthquake in Haiti was siphoned off

white officials. Geoffrey Webb, seen as Sep Blatter's Sepp is thought to

have received a swimming Poole as a bribe. The Attorney General said it

is far from over. Two people remaining in the shadows hoping to

evade this ongoing investigation, you will not wait us out and you

will not escape of focus. A Swiss investigation into how the Qatar and

Russia World Cups were awarded is underway. But enquiry has widened.

They denounced Sep Blatter was under criminal investigation involving a

World Cup contract involving Jack Warner. The TV rights to the 2010

and 2014 World Cup 's or bought the $600,000. Jack Warner's company sold

them on for $18 million. Sep Blatter is also under investigation for

payment of ?1.3 million to the then head of European football, Michel

Platini. Money has always been the Achilles heel for Fifa. There have

been previous scandals but the sheer size and scale of football and the

money it attracts, has led many officials to be tempted into

wrongdoing. The World Cup is everything to Fifa, it is how it

makes most of its cash. It is the most lucrative sporting event in the

world, eclipsing even the Olympics. The 2014 qualifying rounds and final

tournament brought in 4.8 billion dollars over four years and Fifa

made a profit of over 2.5 billion dollars. It added to Fifa's overall

profits and reserves of over 1.5 billion dollars. But the money is

starting to dwindle. This investigation is costing them and

many sponsors have not renewed their contracts. Fifa gives up cash to

countries around the world to help develop the game. There are six

global confederations. Each one looks after the football

associations in its continent. In total there are 209 across the

world. During the four-year period of the last World Cup, each

confederation received $17.5 million. Bondage National

Association received $2 million. It doesn't matter what size the

National Association is. Germany, who have won the World Cup four

times and have a population of over 80 million, receive the same amount

as tiny links to and Steyn, who have never made it to the World Cup and

his population is a mere 30,000. By now, Fifa is at a crossroads. There

is a new President-elect and he will face the threat of further

investigation and the rest. There is two controversial World Cups to

organise and a reform agenda. The story and Fifa's troubles is far

from over. Your contributions to this are welcome, get in touch in

the usual ways. Let's talk about the recent Fifa

pass before looking ahead to see if Fifa can change. Presidents of

Sierra Leone's Football Association, knowing what you know now, do you

support Sep Blatter? Good morning. It is incredible, whenever I get

introduced, especially on the BBC, it is as a supporter of Sep Blatter.

Is that not true? Indeed, I did support him at the time. I am a

newcomer to this business. At that time, of course Sep Blatter, what I

knew of him and how he embraced our FA and tried to raise it from the

ashes, and we are still trying to do that, he was the man to vote for. I

was not privy to these allegations or even rumours that are going on.

And now rush to mark I was just about to say to you, I remember

saying they were simply allegations and I wasn't prepared to comment on

allegations. But now the allegations seem to have some substance, then

obviously he has got to go down and his credibility has been lost.

Although he denies them and is appealing tomorrow to Fifa against

his eight-year ban. Did Sep Blatter ever try to bribe you or your

Association directly or indirectly? Like I said, I am new, I am two and

a half years old so with all of this Qatar, Brazil, South Africa, I

wasn't... I owned a Premier League football club and I was just running

my football club. But in the last couple of years? All of these

incidents, I wasn't really too, I wasn't in the FA. Whether he did

that with my former FA president, I am not aware of that. They claim to

have no knowledge of that. David Ginola, what shocked you most in

terms of the allegations over the last year or so? Nothing, really.

You are serious? It didn't come as a surprise to me. Somehow I knew that

something was going on. How did you know that? Because so many things, I

work in different things, I was obviously playing football, but I

could see Fifa was not making the right decisions. Every time we were

talking about Fifa, I was looking towards something suspicious. When

you have two hide things behind closed doors, it is because you have

something to hide. I work with the FA when we tried to promote, if you

have to promote English football around the world, Mr Greg Dyke, nose

everywhere you go in the world know when you talk about English football

is probably something amazing. This is when you wear the ambassador for

wanting to host the 2018 World Cup? Yes, it was interesting to travel

around the world and see it was actually other issues than just

making the promotion of English football and the transportation and

why England should host the World Cup in 2018. Other issues? Like

what? For those people, it was other issues. Like what? I will not go

into details around this table. We are all adults, he cannot shock us.

Victoria, in London, we had two vote per England, I wasn't surprised,

that is all. Are you saying effectively you felt... Just to be

clear to the audience, it was not about the merits of England's said

it was about the potential of what you could do for other people.

Obviously, I am French. I was playing in the English Premier

League. Somehow, English football was seen as a little bit arrogant

around the world because you have the best football, the best league

in the world and when you talk too much about that and you are English,

it sounds too English. But when the Frenchman steps into the deal and

says, I have played in England and I can tell you English football is

fantastic and they deserve, after 1966, the last World Cup, on their

merits of the last 20 years, because English football has improved the

entire football in the last 20 years. So they deserve in 2018, to

host the World Cup. Like an anniversary, 50 years later. But

they weren't interested in that? When I met those people, I found

out, it was other issues than just the quality of the bid. Can you give

us a clue of the other... OK, Greg Dyke, can you give us some insight

because you said the National football associations around the

world were culpable in corruption, what did you see, what did you hear?

I wasn't there at the time. David is right, if you hear the journalism

and the books, particularly from the British over 20 years, they have

shown Fifa is a corrupt organisation. What was surprising

about last year, finally somebody did something about it. It wasn't

Fifa, it was the Americans, the Attorney General in America who has

blown this whole thing sky-high. Rampant, systemic and deeply rooted

is the American's Attorney General opinion. $200 million. Andrew

Jennings has said that Fifa has got characteristics of an organised

crime syndicate and in places it clearly does. As Greg said,

salvation has come through journalism and the US authority, the

FBI and the Attorney General taking an interest. When you said all the

football associations around the world are also culpable, what did

you mean, you are including your own FAA? -- FA. A lot of people looked

at Sierra Leone. Sepp Blatter went to small countries that needed money

for football and gave them money. Is that bribery or is that legitimate

expenditure? Put it this way, when I introduced my candidacy last

January... You were briefly a candidate for presidency Fifa? I

could not reach the final nomination because out of the 209 FAs around

the world, I was not in the system where every time I was trying to be

introduced to a new essay, the door was locked -- new FA. Because you

were an outsider? I travelled to New York to meet Mr Michel Platini

because I wanted to introduce my candidacy to him as president of

Uefa. He was French, he was a former player, he gave me my first cap when

he was the manager of the national team. We sat with a beautiful view

of the lake, his office at the FA is fantastic. He honestly said... He is

a candidate this time, Michel Platini's right-hand man. He said,

"Look where I am working, I will not go into the Fifa election". I said I

am here to tell you that I will be. Do you give me your support? He

said, "Clearly, honestly not, David". I asked why. He said "You

are not legitimate". I asked why. He said, you are not from fever, you

are independent, too many wrong candidates -- from Fifa. You also

backed with a major bookmaker and you were asking the public to source

the money from your campaign, didn't that not undermine your candidacy

from the start? It was a sponsor, clear right from the beginning.

People took the whole thing wrong, right from the beginning. Betting

companies are everywhere. Newspapers, football clubs... I was

trying to get support for Prince Ali last time. He lost to Sepp Blatter

last time. He was the only person left. I was going to lots of nations

and they were saying Sepp Blatter has been so good to us. That is

true. Let me finish what I said about Michel Platini. When I came

out from the office I had appointments with different members

of the FAs around Europe. Every single meeting was postponed or

cancelled. Even a meeting with view? How dare they? Right after that. --

with you. I was a football player, I was a spokesman for the silent

minority. Fans, everyone who loves football, who are not from Fifa,

within Fifa, the whole package. I was independent. When you are

independent, you can't be controlled. No will stop Rosie,

Aaron, as football supporters, you follow clubs and your national side,

do you genuinely feel that down by Fifa? Or when the World Cup comes

around, you get into the games. People feel let down by Fifa. You

do? As a fan, the real difficulty, you speak to different fans in the

pub, the difficulty they have is that people don't know who on earth

these people are. Does it matter? It matters because they are making the

rules of the game. It is very important. The only time you really

hear of the names of people like Jack Warner, etc, they have been

embroiled in these situations, whenever it comes out in the media,

they have been arrested or investigated. I am not sure... It is

a difficult question. But I am not even sure whether we should just

have a new organisation instead of Fifa. We will definitely talk about

that. Rosie, do you genuinely feel personally less down by what has

happened that Fifa? A bit. Fifa is supposed to be the people in charge,

they are supposed to set an example of how other organisations should be

run. For them to do things like match fixing, things like that, kind

of, you know, just doesn't sound right. It is very corrupt. I feel

like it should all just be changed. Rachel you have been patiently

waiting to contribute from Salford. In terms of the last year, what

shocked you the most? The scale of the corruption. It is not just the

allegations from Sepp Blatter. Literally his right-hand man, people

further down the pyramid at Fifa, who... Once the investigations have

been done, it doesn't seem... It seemed rotten to the call, Fifa. For

all of the great work they have done in women's football and the progress

they have made, the opportunities they've given to smaller countries

who have previously not necessarily been on the map from a football

perspective, I do think they have made great strides. But when that

veneer of professionalism has, kind of, been an -- under and we see what

Fifa is and we see the decision-making, it leaves a bitter

taste in the mouth. -- been undone. When we see the showcase of the

World Cup. It changes the way you watch a World Cup game? When you are

in the World Cup and you are watching it, it is still a World Cup

and it is still the showcase event. Everyone wants to be there, everyone

wants to watch it. But certainly, the allocation of Qatar and Russia

and the unscrupulous dealings that have gone on for those to be awarded

is now seemingly seems, that certainly casts a bit of a shadow

over what is normally a glamour and glitzy event. For me, it has cost a

bit of doubt and a bit of a sour taste in my mouth as a fan watching

the men's World Cup. Reform, certainly, totally, stripped

back Fifa. -- strip. Change how things are implemented in the

future. Why has it been so easy to corrupt people working for Fifa? It

is not one or two rogue individuals, this is systemic. Not just

confederations around the world, but people in Fifa. Jerome Valcke, the

general secretary of Fifa has been banned for football for 12 years --

from football. People taking a slice out of every area with money,

broadcasting rights, hospitality, ticketing rights. This has been

going on for decades. Lots of people have to be in on it for it to

happen. Maybe they did not know the totality of the corruption but they

were aware of bits of it and they kept quiet because they felt

implicated. It is not over yet. There is a lot more to come, the

Americans have made clear they will make more arrests. The Swiss

Attorney General has made his own investigation. We will probably find

within zero, the data there, we will find evidence -- within zero in

Sweden. How can we go into a new election without the end of the

investigation? Because it will take years. To reform it. Everyone who

has been charged and then saying I am guilty is naming another five

people, this will go on and on, this is not the end by any means. Should

we just change the top of the pyramid? One man at the top, the

president and the rest of the pyramid, the people underneath,

working in the dark. It will make no difference at all to change the

names at the top. If this is in the culture, the whole organisation

needs either abolishing or reforming to is very root. It will not be

abolished. But without oversight from law enforcement, governments

and Attorney General is, Fifa can't be trusted to reform itself. The

governing bodies are all in trouble, not just Fifa. The IAAF as well. Is

that why it has been so easy to corrupt so many officials allegedly?

Most denied the allegations. There is no independent external

governance, they are independent. Absolutely. It operates like a

failed state in a tax haven, no external scrutiny. Now we have the

Swiss prosecutors and American authorities. Plenty more time to

chat but we need to bring our view was the news headlines and comments.

Sam says even if Fifa change, it will eventually become corrupt

because where there is money there is greed. Robert says, sadly the new

president of Fifa probably won't or can't change anything, Fifa is

corrupt to the corps and should be disbanded. It, the only thing to do

with Fifa is to scrap it and to be sure it is gone back any current

employee from any involvement in football for ten years. That might

be a bit harsh. We will talk more about Fifa and particularly the

future in the next half an hour. First, the main news. Mental health

care in England is to get a ?1 billion funding boost.

The promise of extra cash comes after a review says poor care

is 'ruining lives', with problems such as long waiting times,

inadequate resources, and poor outcomes for patients.

HSBC has announced it's to keep its headquarters in London,

despite concerns about reforms in the banking sector.

The banking giant launched a review last April about whether it should

move, with Hong Kong seen as the most likely contender.

But HSBC decided that London "offered the best outcome

We took ten months to make this decision.

It was a decision based on hopefully what will be a generational view.

It was not based on short-term dynamics, market dynamics,

It was based on a very thoughtful perspective on how economics

will play out over the next 20, 25 years.

At the end of that review, we ended up believing

that the combination of a headquarters in London

and the pivot to Asia, where our major operating activities

Michel Platini's appeal against his eight-year ban

from all football-related activity will be heard by Fifa's

The suspended Uefa president was banned in December over

a "disloyal payment" of ?1.3 million made to him in 2011,

which had been signed off by Sepp Blatter, the

Blatter will have his appeal against his own ban heard tomorrow.

More on that with our debate featuring David Ginola and Greg Dyke

in the next few minutes. A passenger plane travelling

to New York is forced to turn back to London Heathrow after a laser

was shone at the cockpit. The pilot's union is now calling for

more to be done to tackle the growing use of lasers against

aircraft. Police in Devon say

the search is continuing Rose Polge, 25, was last

seen on Friday night and her disappearance

is being described as "completely Her car was found in a car

park near Ansteys Cove, The Revenant triumphed at the BAFTA

film awards last night, The wilderness survival film claimed

three of the biggest prizes including best film

with its star Leonardo Di Caprio coming away with the award

for Best Actor. Those are the news headlines, time

for the sport. Sheikh Salman will win the Fifa

presidency is the view of many pundits and perhaps more

importantly, the bookmakers. He is clear favourite ahead of Gianni

Infantino to win the race with the other three candidates nothing but

also rans. The run to the Premier League title is now anything but,

two points separate the top three after Arsenal's last-minute winner

against Leicester on Sunday and Christian Eriksen's late goal

against Tottenham. What does it mean? Leicester are still top but

their lead over Tottenham in second at Arsenal in third is now two

points. Tight at the top but seven points adrift at the bottom Aston

Villa. They conceded six at home

to Liverpool, it's the first time that's happened at Villa Park

since Culture Club were number one on Top of the Pops

with Karma Chameleon. Everyone around this table remembers

that fondly. Thank you. Sepp Blatter ran Fifa

with a "mafioso" type strategy based That's what a leading expert

on corporate anti-corruption who quit Fifa's own Independent

Governance Committee in 2013 has Alexandra Wragge blamed "blatant

sexism" and frustration that world football's governing body had

proved resistant to change Sepp Blatter's 17-year reign

as President of Fifa ended in disgrace in December

after the world body's ethics committee banned him for eight years

over corruption allegations. Claims he denies, his appeal

against his ban is due New presidential elections

take place next week. Alexandra Wragge has been talking

to our sports news correspondent Richard Conway about

Blatter's leadershiip. The surprising thing

about the culture at Fifa was that it was the worst

corporate culture I had ever come across, in the sense

of reluctance to speak out, in the sense that change had to be

approved, at the highest level. The very strong sense

that this was Sepp He had a strong sense he was in a

unique position in the world and frankly, he was. The world's

football fans opened a lot of doors. He talked about the football family,

a phrase that constantly came up. What did you

There was a strong sense that Mr Blatter's leadership

style was to let people who were loyal and supportive in.

And, I'm not suggesting necessarily illegally,

goody bags with the expensive watches we've heard about.

All of it was permitted to keep people happy

and for those who are loyal and those who were not the record

shows that they were excised, banned from the family pretty quickly.

And not to push the analogy too far, around

Secret agreements that we are continuing to hear about,

and we think about the reform happening now, or we hope

is happening there, a lot of the infrastructure

is still the same, the lawyers who were there then are still there,

It's hard to imagine how we are going to move

from unbelievable scandals that we have seen to

something better than that with the whole family structures

You seem to be suggesting perhaps that there has

not been a cultural change, is that the problem here?

That despite the arrests and indictments, it has not

culturally shifted enough to where it is a functioning

Absolutely, I don't think there's a question that there

has not been a cultural change, there has not really been

I don't think we have seen the end to the

And you have to reach the bottom of that before you can

start rebuilding if, in fact, you have the right

There's been a lot of talk about this election coming up,

Is that an opportunity for change or do you

think looking at the candidates it will be more of the same?

I think it's going to be more of the same.

With the rules written the way that they are,

to ensure that only an insider can take over, we start

We begin with the sense that whoever is there already

understands the audience that they had to play too,

their expectations, what they have become accustomed to.

We won't see any one leap up and demand sweeping reform

because they will not get elected with that

They are having to be very gentle and conciliatory,

we aren't getting a lot of transparency around

funding, and the platforms we are seeing are pretty vague.

So, I think we are completely on track for more

So who are the candidates hoping to replace Sepp Blatter

as football's most powerful man, with a reported salary of around

It's only an estimate because FIFA have always refused

In total 5 men are running on a platform of reform,

transparency and democracy - and all of them from within

Our sports news correspondent Richard Conway has been taking

Voters have a choice of five contenders.

The frontrunner is Sheikh Salman, he's from Bahrain and the head

He's been a member of Fifa's executive ruling

He's the one the bookmakers think will win.

To split Fifa into, the business side would deal with commercial

The football side will deal with well, the football side.

Organising the World Cup and promoting development

Well, it's to stop executives making self-interest decisions and,

as has been seen recently, putting their hand in

But, Sheikh Salman is not without his issues.

He is accused of human rights abuses connected to pro-democracy

demonstrations in Bahrain four years ago.

The uprising was part of the Arab Spring.

Specifically, he is accused of heading a group of footballers

He said that the committee was never formally constituted,

These are false, you know, nasty lies that have been repeated

People are talking about a committee,

Do you think that people would be able to identify

It's like asking the FA or the chair of the FA to say OK,

can you identify David Beckham or Steven Gerrard?

So, he may be out in front, but this man, Gianni Infantino,

In fact, he has big momentum and believes he can win.

He's one of the leading figures at Uefa, the European Confederation,

and is positioning himself as someone the world can trust.

First of all, if someone has stolen money, he has to go to jail.

I applaud those investigations by public authorities who are acting

When it comes to the running of football and our business,

our job, we have to show that we can deserve it.

He only looks to stand in this election after his boss,

Michel Platini, was charged by Fifa's ethics committee

for taking ?1.3 million from Sepp Blatter.

Platini says he earned the money and it is legitimate,

but they've both now been banned for eight years.

Infantino has support from Europe and South America, a big part

of his pitch is to expand the World Cup to 40 teams,

ensuring more smaller nations can participate and ultimately he thinks

But critics say that he is Platini's man and point to his plans

to massively expand Fifa's development programme.

They question where the money comes from and whether the sums add up.

Next - Prince Ali bin al-Hussein is the brother of the King

of Jordan, a former Fifa executive, and he thinks the election

is the organisation's last chance to get it right.

He knows all about fighting Fifa elections.

He stood against Sepp Blatter last May but lost despite getting

This time, he thinks it is different and he can win.

I think it's the last chance to save the organisation,

To get it back in the right shape and focus on what my real goal

is, which is total development of football around the world.

This time, Europe are backing Infantino's candidacy.

Ali insists that he can still win, but many point to the fact that

Salman has the support of Ali's home continent.

A more realistic role may see him play kingmaker.

If the vote is close between Salman and Infantino after the first

On policy, he wants to quadruple the amount that member associations

receive, believing it will increase their sustainability.

He also wants the money properly accounted for.

He is a former political prisoner who spent time in jail

with Nelson Mandela during South Africa's apartheid.

He is a big mate of Blatter, and is currently an envoy

He wants to make a difference but has failed to get the support

of Africa's football leaders, and he's been criticised for running

That has led many to question whether he will even make

The final candidate is Jerome Champagne.

The Frenchman believes he can do better than many people expect.

He's a former adviser to Sepp Blatter but was forced out

of Fifa by executives after a series of disagreements.

His knowledge of world football and it's power is beyond doubt,

but turning that into votes could be the tricky part.

He's defended Sepp Blatter's record in the past, leading many

to question how close he is to the deposed Fifa president.

But, Champagne says that Sepp Blatter did many good things,

such as making sure that smaller nations were well-financed,

and protected, especially given the huge wealth and power

Large sections of the vote have already been divided along national

and regional lines, so the swing states of the Caribbean

It is no wonder candidates have spent so much time

With the vote just over ten days away, candidates are now

going all-out to secure backing, as they attempt to be crowned

a lot to take in, Greg Dyke, would Salman be a good president of Fifa?

I think it doesn't matter, what matters is the reform programme and

restructuring the whole organisation. Of course it matters

who the president of Fifa is. We want to avoid having the Sep Blatter

style again having this one person who is all powerful. So you don't

mind if there are these torture allegations around him? There are

issues about him and human rights, yes. Specifically about him or the

fact he represents Bahrain? It is Bahrain, no one denies there were

violations of human rights involving sportsman and footballers that went

on four years ago. No one denies that, it is whether he is involved.

Does it matter whether he was involved, or can you have someone

from Bahrain running world football, in charge of world football, given

what happened there four years ago? What do you think? I personally have

my doubts. So we would be a mistake if he became the next president of

Fifa? What will happen, it will come down to two, no one will win on the

first ballot. There is a sense he wasn't straight with what he knew,

when the committee that, what Salman's involvement was, he did

nothing to stand up and protect the sports people and will not discuss

it. He didn't want to be asked questions about human rights,

refused to take part in a debate I organised with Fifa and the European

Parliament. He's going around the world with the other candidates in

secret, trying to get votes. Is it linked to the election? What was

promised is done behind closed doors. It is reminiscent of the way

Fifa has been run in the past. The point has been made, if you are

going to run for president and argue the transparency, it is probably

best the regime you serve at home is transparent as well. David Ginola,

who do you fancy out of those five? I have doubts, if you look at the

five candidates, you will have different issues on the five. They

are all very close to Fifa, or Uefa, or whatever. If you look at

everyone, we saw the footage on each one. I am very doubtful. If you want

to reform, you need to reform the whole thing, not just one person. I

agree with Greg Dyke, to vote for someone is a very big deal. With

what happened in the recent past, what still happened with the

allegations, we are still in the process of doubting on everything.

We have suspicion on everything. This shouldn't be the case. You said

something interesting, Fifa should be set as an example around the

world. We are talking about politics now, no sport. Where is sport?

Nowhere. We are talking about politics. The president of Fifa is

treated like a president of a country everywhere he goes, because

he has the power of changing or making people richer or poorer. He

has his hands on something like a massive power, and that shouldn't be

the case. I want to ask our guest in Sierra Leone, the president of the

Sierra Leone football Association, who will you be voting for out of

those five? It is supposed to be a secret ballot vote, so maybe I'd

best not answer that. Prince Ali says if he becomes president he will

quadruple the amount member associations like yours get, might

you vote for him? We need to clarify something. Too often we get the

feeling people regard African member associations as all about the money.

To some extent, that might be true but some, but for my association,

that isn't the case. Too much money brings about a lot of corruption and

mayhem and you get absolutely nothing done. Development is what

we're looking at. We're looking at the candidate that will bring about

developing football in Africa. What I have been reading about their

declarations, listening to their interviews, the general trend going

towards the government, transparency, accountability, it is

all good and that is what hopefully will go a long way. But this thing

about change, if the culture does not change, all these stories we are

hearing about Fifa, if it doesn't change, there is no hope.

How can we know if any of the men standing is clean?

Let's get the latest weather update with Carole Kirkwood.

Still pretty cold at the moment, these are the temperature values

greeting you if you are stepping outside. Some snow flurries and

sleet and rain. All morning across the north and East. Increasingly,

they will wane from the North. Lots of sunshine for most. A keen breeze

on the East Coast accent awaiting the cold feel but temperatures

roughly where they should be in February at this stage. Tonight the

temperatures will tumble quickly, -12 in some parts. Wet and windy

weather from the north-west. Temperatures will rise. For England

and Wales, it will remain cold. We could look at the coldest night of

the year so far. Wives bred frost and ice on a untreated surfaces --

widespread frost. Wet and windy weather in the North sinking South.

Thank you, good morning. Welcome to our programme if you have just

joined us. Is football's world governing

body Fifa beyond saving? It's been mired in scandal

after scandal and allegations Every time we were talking about

Fifa it was toward something really suspicious. When you have two hide

things behind closed doors it is because you have something to hide.

Fifa's problems are not over yet. Everyone who has been charged and

saying he is guilty is naming another five people, this will be

going on and on former France international David Ginola and chair

of injured's FAA, Greg Dyke. Get in touch with your views throughout the

morning. Claims the NHS is failing mental health patients in England to

such an extent that lives are being ruined, we get reaction from people

receiving psychiatric care. Violet beach, there car plunged 80 feet

into a canal in Sweden killing all four members of the band and their

manager, we pay tribute. Good morning.

Mental health care in England is to get a ?1 billion funding boost.

The promise of extra cash comes after a review says poor care

is "ruining lives", with problems such as long waiting times,

inadequate resources, and poor outcomes for patients.

HSBC has announced it's to keep its headquarters in London,

rejecting a possible move to Hong Kong.

Europe's biggest bank launched a review on its location last April

in the face of tighter banking regulation.

But HSBC decided that London "offered the best outcome

Michel Platini's appeal against his eight-year ban

from all football-related activity will be heard by Fifa's

The suspended Uefa president was banned in December over

a "disloyal payment" of ?1.3 million made to him in 2011,

which had been signed off by Sepp Blatter, the

He has his appeal heard tomorrow. The medical charity known as doctors

without Borders says a makeshift clinic it supports in northern Syria

has been destroyed in an air strike. It says there is no information

about whether there have been any casualties at one of their bases in

a particular province. A plane travelling to New York

was forced to turn back to Heathrow last night after a laser

was shone at the cockpit. The pilots' union, Balpa,

is now calling for more to be done to tackle the growing use

of lasers against aircraft. Police are continuing to search

an area of the Devon coast Rose Polge, 25, was last

seen on Friday night and her disappearance

is being described as "completely Her car was found in a car

park near Ansteys Cove, The trial of England footballer

Adam Johnson continues today. The former Sunderland player

is charged with two counts of sexual The Revenant Was the big winner at

last night's BAFTAs. Alejandro Inaritu Was best director.

Fascinating chat. Sheikh Salman, the favourite to be the next president

has, in the past, been a supporter of Sepp Blatter. Once this was all

done at the end of the month, will we see change? -- this is done. Greg

Dyke suggested the problems at Fifa run really deep and a change at the

top is perhaps not the only one required. If you read the journalism

and the books are tickly from the British over 20 years, they have

shown that Fifa is a corrupt organisation. Surprisingly last

year, finally somebody did something about it. It was not Fifa, it was

the Americans, the Attorney General in America has blown this whole

thing sky-high. More wonderful twists and turns in the English

Premier League title race, snobby leaders Leicester 2-1 thanks to a

late goal at Tottenham two off the leaders in second after a 2-1 win. A

late winner at fourth place city. They lost to title rivals for the

second time in a week. Spurs' fifth league win in a row. After wins for

France and Wales on Saturday, England moved to the top of the six

Nations win with a 40-9 win over Italy in Rome. Attritional first

half but England accelerated away in the second. Jonathan Joseph scored a

hat-trick to give them they win and maintain coach Eddie Jones' unbeaten

start in charge. Alan Morgan's side was dominant that

an unbeaten century from AB de Villiers guided them to a five

wicket victory in Cape Town. England's women won 2-1. Outrageous

cheek on Barcelona in their 6-1 win over Celta Vigo. If you tried this

on a Sunday afternoon you might not get anyone buying you a pint in the

bar afterwards. Messi flicking the ball to Luis Suarez who gets his

hat-trick by tucking it in. How cheeky is that? This is the kind of

football story we like but back to you with more on Fifa. We have

debated the future of Fifa. The Chairman of Fifa has expressed

criticism about shakes Sound man because of allegations of human

rights abuses in his home country, Bahrain.

How do you know if any of the five candidates are clean? Presumably you

have questions some of them? I have talked to all of them on behalf of

the FA. I will report back this week on who we think we should vote for

but you can't know. That is why you supported Michel Platini last year?

We thought he did quite a good job at you Uefa until we discover nobody

knew about the ?1.5 million. Is this due diligence? How can you do that?

I don't know. They say no. That's it, the level of June diligence?

Nobody knew that Sepp Blatter was suspect four-year is. We didn't vote

for him. Nobody knew but they should. FA backed Michel Platini

before they knew the other candidates, and the criticism said

it looked like it was a blog decision to back their man. The big

problem with this election, no one was independent. Every single one

has a background from somewhere close to Fifa. It is unthinkable but

you would not back Gianni Infantino given that he is the head of Uefa,

how close the FA have got to Uefa. We will discuss this at the FA board

this week and we will decide this week. I went to the meeting in Uefa

and refused. We said we would not tell you and we came under a lot of

pressure. There were half a dozen nations that said we will not

deciding. Pressure from whom? From Uefa. Not from the candidates? Yet,

pressure from Uefa to support Gianni Infantino. We will talk more in a

moment. We have plenty of time to talk more.

One of only three women at the very top of Fifa's leadership has told

this programme that the corruption scandal has caused "huge damage"

and "shocked many in the football world" but that a reform package

which includes more positions for women will be a "breath of fresh

Former Australia player Moya Dodd sits on Fifa's Executive Committee

and is also a Vice President of the Asian Football Federation

She told me how she reacted when her old boss Sepp Blatter

was arrested on allegations of corruption.

I think the events shocked many in the football world,

But, I think when we are realistic about it, it's a tragedy for certain

individuals, it's an opportunity for reform, and to set itself

on a path in which the future is very different to the past.

I'm going to ask about you own views on how

When Sepp Blatter says he's never cheated with money,

It's not about individuals, I think it is about institutional reform.

With respect, it is about individuals, Sepp Blatter has been

the boss of Fifa since 1998, and has reigned supreme for that

And under his governance of your institution,

we have seen dozens and dozens of people arrested by various

And of the 22 men who voted in the awarding

of the 2018 and 2022 World Cups in Russia and Qatar,

half are now facing corruption charges.

You are reciting some facts and things that are opinions,

I would say it is not my institution.

It is everyone's institution, and it is now up to all of us

to make sure it is better in the future than it has been

That is what the reforms are all about and what the Congress

You know that some people have said that Fifa should be scrapped

There are a lot of questions in that, how can Fifa be reformed?

I think the package of reforms on the table is a good first step,

and it is a step where there is enough consensus around

what is in the package to ensure that it is a step

that the organisation should be able to take on February 26th.

The key features are the separation of the political and management

functions within Fifa, the executive committee will become

a council and step back from operational issues.

And decision-making that is of an administrative nature,

and will focus more in a corporate board type structure on strategy.

And, in line with more traditional corporate notions of governance,

I suppose, there will be more independent members on key

subcommittees like finance, and development.

There will be a fully independent audit committee,

there will be term limits on the president and executive

committee members, there will be compensation disclosure.

there will be many of the, I think, sensible corporate hygiene measures

that people have been calling for introduced in this package

of reforms that will go before Congress on February 26th.

There will also be, I'm happy to say, moves towards greater gender

equality in Fifa, there will be six places held for women at the top

And there will be new statutory objectives introduced in Fifa's

The founding documents, that will place the development

of women's football and the inclusion of women

in football governance as one of the first level objectives

So, they are some pretty big steps that I think will make a positive

difference to both the culture and operations of the institution

Will Fifa be less corrupt then if there are more women

That's a matter of academic research, the only women

who are at the top table at Fifa right now, including myself,

got to that table because they were part of a quota mechanism.

Because I'm part of a quota, by definition I'm not someone who's

If you make the effort to include women, you are going to change

the air in the room because you get people who are not part of those

You get people who are, by definition,

I think that kind of cultural shift is something that Fifa badly needs.

I'm glad you mentioned cultural shift, I just want to play you this.

It is a short clip of Sepp Blatter back in 2013, when he was talking

about the quota system you just mentioned.

We shall have not only a culture of a lady,

but a lady elected for four years, and to other ladies,

You have a candidate, a good candidate, and a good-looking

I cannot say more, because I shall observe some neutrality.

Sepp Blatter was referring to you as a good candidate,

Is that the kind of thing that you are suggesting absolutely

Well, in defence of his position on this, he was the one

who pioneered the appearance of women at the executive committee

I think they would not have come through the usual

If he was talking about a male colleague he would not have

I suspect that many women around the world in corporate contexts feel

that they too have been the subject of comments

It feels that you are doing all you can not to criticise Sepp

We could go through reams of names and comments on things from past

contact in the football world but to be honest,

the task in front of us now to reform Fifa to make

the institution better is such a large one is that I don't

have the energy to waste on picking apart the past.

A lot of people are doing that and it is their role to do

That may be fairer enough, but I'm just thinking about people

They play it, they watch it, they follow it, they have a football

team, they adore the World Cup, and they are seeing you on that

executive committee, you are at Fifa's top table and...

How can they trust you to change Fifa if you won't even acknowledge

that there is horrendous damage that has been caused in the last few

I think we all acknowledge that there has been huge damage

caused in the last few months and years.

What I'm trying to do is call out some of the things that have

to change, in that, and gender inequality is definitely

And set about trying to persuade the decision-makers

I cannot do much about the past but only help to change the future.

Let's talk to a former English goalkeeper, if there were more women

at the top of Fifa, will there be less corruption? What she talks

about corporate hygiene might go towards cleaning up Fifa. That is

the same for any logical prise Asian, but Fifa, the old ideals, the

sexism and the antiquated beliefs and behaviour that Sep Blatter

clearly showed in some of his comments. I remember a comment years

ago about female footballers if they wore short shorts, the game would be

more attractive. It was an old way of thinking and I do believe the

quota system will help the change in Fifa, but it it needs more than

that, in needs a radical overhaul, not just to address the inequalities

of Fifa in its infrastructure, but the close circle of trust that has

been the rotten elements of Fifa for so long. All the candidates who are

implicated by the Association of Sep Blatter, I don't believe should, or

certainly cast a shadow over their integrity when it comes to someone

going in as the new candidate for president of Fifa. There is such a

whole range and vast scope of problems at Fifa, it genuinely

should be blown out of the water and almost started again. You say start

again, but this is an unscientific survey, but would you say scrap it

and start again? Of course not. I will come back to, I want to see

what everyone says around the room, Aaron, football supporter? It seems

like the only option. I don't think it is realistic because they will

not scrap themselves. Greg Dyke? There is no way of doing it. I

suspect if we were given the opportunity, we would all say start

again, but I don't think there is a way of doing it, it is very

difficult. I don't think you can start again, it is a tournament

formats and people sell the rights to watch it. That is the way it is.

Football will continue as a sport around the world being loved by

millions of people and it doesn't need Fifa, we could start again. If

you scrapped the tournaments, Fifa is just a talking shop. I wouldn't

say start again, I would come back a bit, select new people, keep the

name, keep the whole idea of the organisation, but change things in

it. That is kind of what they are going to do, what about you, David

Ginola? No respect for the people and the fans with what happened in

the recent months, saying that we want to change it, but there is no

way we can do it. I interrupted you, do carry on with your point.

Scrapping it, no. Let's be clear about this. It is about a leader in

this association and around the world. The media who have come down

so heavily, and rightly so, on Fifa, have more women on board in the

executive committee... I am sorry to jump in, but it is such a poor line,

we will try to get you on the phone. We know that will work. The point

Molly Dodd made, it is more important to reform the institution,

the changing personnel is important, Fifa is bigger than the individuals,

what do we think? It is, it has been going since 1904, an institution

that has delivered World Cups. We need to separate what has happened

with some of the individuals and the governing body who do good work in

Zurich on a daily basis. What we have seen in Fifa over the past

several years is that slowly eroding of its moral authority to lead the

game. What it is at right now is a crossroads, which we will see what

way it will go. The selection is important because it will set the

tone for World Cup ball for the next ten, even 20 years. Non-Arbor

candidates have talked about the 2018 2022 World Cups in Qatar and

Russia. Very sensitive subject. None of them have mentioned that, is it

an issue? They seem to be going ahead despite the fact of the people

who voted for those two World Cups are being questioned on allegations

of corruption? The 24 years that have been identified, the people who

are posing as reformers of Fifa, why were they silent? Where they

complicit, did they ignore it and pretend it wasn't happening? They

have the answer for the silence, how can you take people seriously if

they didn't speak at the time. Once all the various cases that are

open against the individuals named in that report, it will be released.

But it has moved on since the Garcia report. There is a criminal

investigation into the bidding process, so they can bring charges

against people. The Russia World Cup will still go ahead in Russia. It

Qatar World Cup... If what comes out of that report demonstrates there

was corruption involved in the Qatar World Cup, I think it might change.

Really? Yes. You mean it won't be in Qatar? If they show evidence there

was corrupt practices used to get the World Cup in Qatar, there is an

opportunity to move it. If you want to restore trust in something or

someone, you need to release all evidence, that is obvious. When you

hide half or three quarters of something, is there something you

want to add, the truth to be away from the reality. Twenty20 two is a

very sensitive subject, as I said. We need to have on the table, a full

Garcia report to restore entire trust to say that Fifa didn't do

anything wrong in that. You will not be chairman for England FA McClung,

but can you see the possibility this World Cup being in England? That is

not what we are about. All I am saying is... Come on, please! If

they come up with clear evidence this was run by corruption, I don't

see how Fifa has any other choice? For the World Cup to be taken away

from Qatar in there has to be a political will, I don't think that

is there. When we see the closeness of the British government to Bahrain

and Qatar and the middle Eastern region, there is no political

appetite here when John Whittingdale raised the question of England

hosting the 2022 World Cup, Philip had to go to the Qataris and

apologise for raising it. -- Philip Hammond. They are conflicted on

this. It wouldn't come to Europe, it will probably go to to Australia or

America or somewhere else. But if there are charges brought against

individuals for buying votes, it will be moved. But the response we

talked about earlier, you set up something new in parallel, we will

have a new summer World Cup, it will be in the United States, we have

sponsors, broadcasters and commercial partners to make it

happen, all we need are the players. If the major clubs around the world

said they want to play in this new, clean tournament, the debate is

irrelevant with what it happens to Fifa, because it has moved on. Lord

treason, who was head of the FA some years ago suggested the Qatar bid

spent ?117 million and legitimately asked, where did the money go? It

went on high-profile people to promote the bid. They say it is

legitimate and in Qatar you have to look up the fact the rules were so

opaque back in that bidding process, anything went, in many regards. It

was a failure of the system. England's bid, they are not clean on

this either in terms of signing blank cheques to Jack Warner? Nobody

came out of this with any credit. England were prepared to go along

with it when it suited them. The person from Qatar who tried to be

president, they said England had no chance because we wouldn't play the

game. We know what the game was, it was money. It looks like almost

every World Cup in recent years has been corrupt and there has been

money being passed about. The scandal going on in Germany is

amazing because Germany is more like written because it is not

acceptable. The technical committee, Fifa's own technical committee

advised against putting the World Cup in Qatar on the grounds you

couldn't play it in the summer in the heat. They were completely

ignored and you have to ask why? Is there not a difficulty surrounding

government involvement when we go back to the issue of reform. Until

Fifa is reformed to amend Article 17 so governments can actually... I

don't know what Article 17 is. You cannot a political interference. It

is political parliament having a view on corruption at Fifa, but

elliptical interference is what we saw in Bahrain where the government

took human rights violations against sportspeople. That is what political

interference looks like. They use that to their advantage. When they

don't like political interference they threatened to ban nations from

World Cups. Hopefully now we can hear our guest on the phone. If

there is evidence and it is proven those who voted the Qatar in

Twenty20 to did it on a corrupt basis, there is a legitimate reason

to take that World Cup away from Qatar and have it elsewhere, but you

have it that way, the Sierra Leone Football Association? It is the

first step in gaining the trust. It is all about proving somebody guilty

of wrongdoing. Like I said, so much is claimed to have happened or still

going on in Fifa and within the member associations. We're talking

about reforms and all these other things, if it can be proven there

was wrongdoing to the extent that it should be taken away from them.

There is no reason we shouldn't start from there.

Can I ask you to wrap up? What will happen? How did you know? I want to

say something because you said it is not about individuals. Fifa is a

massive institution for tens of years. It is just amazing. But we

are talking about leading people, we are talking about the leaders who

vote. Who make reforms. If you are great people, good people working at

the top of Fifa, they will be followed, they will be understood.

It is all about that, good people at the top is about individuals. Let's

bring good people amongst Fifa, to be trusted. Fifa needs to be

trusted. For our kids, for the future. They need to look at Fifa in

a better way without doubt, without suspicion. Rosie, do you think you

will trust Fifa again? No. Simple. What will unfold over the next

coming weeks and months? We can have a new president and weeks later they

could be arrested by the FBI. An awful lot will unfold, we haven't

mentioned in Russia. Qatar is taking all the flak but there was

corruption possibly in both areas. They are good at hiding. When the

groom and investigation under falls, they will be new evidence --

criminal investigation unfolds. We are holding a presidential election

where we are at the start of a process and the election should not

be taking place. I think there has to be a proper outside, independent

reform commission that scrutinises what goes on. Lots of talk about the

reform that people want to see but we are trusting people who are Fifa

insiders, implementing those reforms, can we have confidence that

will change? There needs to be external validation of that reform.

What will happen? Not a lot will change. Over the years, it will be

adjusting to discuss whether Fifa will still be here in two or three

years -- it will be interesting. It depends what happens in the legal

investigations in America and Switzerland. Ayew suggesting it

might not be there in three years? We can't be certain. -- are you all

stop from a fan's perspective it is very sad that we are talking about

the head of football. We are picking the best of a bad

bunch. Whoever comes in, everyone, from the fans pressurising their own

associations, the media scrutiny, everybody has to make -- work hard

to make sure whoever is introduced reforms and is forced to. What do

you see coming up? The two most important people in this election

and Fifa's future are Michael Laudrup and the US Attorney General,

these candidates will have a say but what they decide will ultimately

have the biggest say in the next few months and ten years. Knew what

those two individuals on your side -- you would want. What about

yourself, do you have a view about what we might see over the next

weeks and months? Fifa has to be started pretty much again. Under the

same name, but a single person, successful candidate brought in, and

the Qatar allegations are proven to be correct, the first thing the

successful candidate needs to do is take the World Cup off Qatar. That

will make a huge stand to other associations that that sort of

behaviour from this day forward in their candidacy... In their turn

won't be accepted. You would need to be a strong man to do that. I

suspect, but I hope not but a few more scandals will emerge in the

next coming weeks. There seems like a big move by the Americans to clean

up the associations much as they can. It is with the leadership.

Whoever comes in has really got to do the best they can to get the

trust back. The people, the world, the associations, the media. It is

the media that is following this through thick and thin, inch by

inch. They have a lot of work to do. Not only them but we have got to

help that new leader in changing this. Good luck to all of them, we

wish them the best. Jay is watching this morning. Representative of most

messages from our audience. Fifa is corrupt to the call and people are

questioning about whether it is continuing? This is sickening. Thank

you for your time. What is it like being the Gary Lineker of France,

presenting your own Match of the Day? Great. It is in French. I say

Bonjour. We understand that. Do you have the same dreadful gags and

puns? I have my own. Do you write your own script? Let's bring back

football to the fans because it belongs to them. No one will

disagree with that. It is very important.

Mental health patients give us their reaction to a new report

which claims psychiatric care in England is so poor that "lives

Plus, we'll pay tribute to the British indie band

Viola Beach, their car plunged 80 feet into a canal in Sweden killing

all four band members and their manager.

Mental health care in England is to get a ?1 billion

The promise of extra cash comes after a review says poor care

is "ruining lives", with problems such as long waiting times,

inadequate resources, and poor outcomes for patients.

HSBC has announced it's to keep its headquarters in London,

rejecting a possible move to Hong Kong.

Europe's biggest bank launched a review of its location last April

in the face of tighter banking regulation.

But HSBC decided that London "offered the best outcome

Greg Dyke has told us the 2022 World Cup could be taken away from Qatar

is clear evidence of corruption is found. He expressed scepticism about

whether one of the presidential candidates, Sheikh Salman, is right

for the top job of Fifa over allegations of human rights abuses.

Damian Collins says the way this presidential Fifa presidential

election is being conducted shows nothing is changing. Here the other

candidates are meeting in secret and in private with associations trying

to get this vote. He did a deal with the African Confederation before

they endorsed him. Is that linked to the election? What was promised? It

is behind closed doors. This is reminiscent of the way Fifa has been

run in the past. Time for the sport. Once this Fifa vote is done, what

real change will we will Fifa exist in a few years' time? Greg Dyke FHM

and suggested the problems of Fifa run really deep and that in time it

might disappear completely -- FA chairman. More twists and turns in

the Premier League title race, Arsenal beat league leaders

Leicester at Tottenham, thanks to Christian Eriksen, beat Manchester

City 2-1. They second, two points behind Leicester in the table. Six

Nations, England moved to the top of the table yesterday with a 40-9 win

over Italy in Rome with a attritional first half. Great moves

in the second. England accelerating with Jonathan Joseph scoring a

hat-trick of tries to give them a win and maintain Eddie Jones'

unbeaten start. England's cricketers lead against South Africa but they

lost it, Eoin Morgan's side beaten by AB de Villiers who got an

unbeaten century guiding the hosts to a five wicket victory in Cape

Town. I will be back on the news town shortly -- news channel.

A New York-bound passenger plane was forced to turn back to Heathrow

last night after a laser was shone at the cockpit.

A crew member is recorded saying to Irish air traffic control that they

had "A medical issue with one of the pilots".

This flight took off at 8am from Heathrow last night -- 8pm. It was

headed to New York, JFK airport. 252 passengers and 15 crew on board. It

was about 8000 feet in the air about six miles west of here. There was a

laser attack in the cockpit. The passengers have been speaking to us

this morning. They told us it was about one hour into the flight when

the co-pilot told them over the tannoy what had happened. He said

they had to turn back because he was suffering and he needed to go back.

It was very calm on board. They came back and they have been put up in

hotels overnight. They are hoping to go back again today. The pilots

union... I am sorry to interrupts... They want the law changed to make it

an offensive act. Apologies for interrupting, I think we can hear

some of that recording with the pilot right now.

A review of mental health services in England has found that the NHS

is failing most psychiatric patients.

The report, published by a taskforce set up by NHS England,

reveals the number of patients killing themselves has soared,

three quarters of those with mental conditions are not being helped

and sick children are being sent "almost anywhere

The report sets out a number of recommendations, including

improving access to crisis care and talking therapies.

Ministers and health bosses immediately accepted the findings,

promising ?1 billion extra funding by 2020 to tackle the problems.

Meanwhile, the Royal College of Psychiatrists is warning that

there's been a big increase in the number of teenage girls

deliberately poisoning themselves with tablets or chemicals as a form

A Radio 1 Newsbeat investigation has found that the actual number might

be much higher than official figures as many girls don't

"Lily" is 15 and has been self poisoning herself.

She's been speaking to Radio 1 Newsbeat.

I think the first overdose that I took was the biggest down.

I remember going downstairs and taking the whole packet with me.

Being sick on the way to school, and obviously I got worried that

And so I told the teacher and the ambulance was called.

It was my mum's birthday coming up, I thought that the best birthday

present I could give for her was for me not to be here.

I felt like a burden, and that I could just go away

It gets in your mind, and then you fixate on it,

and then you do it, and then you come out and think why

Some of the times I take it and I think I'm going to get liver

The other times it's just self harming, I should punish myself.

I feel like I can talk more, I feel that helps.

When I was 12, I wouldn't be talking to you now.

I was embarrassed of it, and I still have little episodes

but I know when I'm on a down that it will come up.

I hope that other people learn that it's OK to talk about it.

It's not something to be embarrassed or ashamed of.

What do people who've experienced mental health problems

Dave Chawner is 27 and is a recovering anorexic,

Kathryn Grant is 35 and had postpartum psychosis after the birth

of her son James in 2012 and is bipolar.

You may remember, we spoke to her last summer during a special

programme looking at mental health issues.

My hallucinations were so acute, I thought I was dying, I thought

perhaps I caused the end of the world in some way. At 1.I thought I

was the last person alive in the world. -- one point I thought. I was

having solutions around death and dying and I had fixations on panic

buttons. I was hospitalised -- having hallucinations are around. I

lived in the part of the country where I had access to a mother and

baby unit at my beautiful baby boy came with me to the hospital. We

ended up being there for three months. I was acutely psychotic for

the first four weeks but after that, it got better.

She's here along with her 3-year-old son James.

Peter Warwick is 49, he has been diagnosed as bipolar.

He has tried to take his own life twice in the last eight years.

Peter, I would like to start with you. About those incidences, what

got you to that point in your life? It was just feeling worthless.

And having no one to turn to, no one you thought you could turn to. In

fact, there was another one in November, I was hospitalised

recently. Three, now. There doesn't have to be a certain trigger, but

there can be. And once that trigger hits, it is a downward spiral. A lot

of people may perhaps think it is a selfish act, but at that point, you

don't think about that. Of course. You just want to end it as quickly

as possible. How would you describe the kind of care you have received

on those occasions? The care that I received last November was the best

I have ever received. I remember, I was... On here before. I actually

said I didn't feel I was believed. This time, I was. And it makes such

a huge amount of difference. The first two, no, I still maintain

that, there is still this lack of disbelief when someone says they are

suicidal. Are they attention seeking? From the medical

profession? Absolutely. Not from the medical professionals in my

experience, I can't speak for everybody. There is still this

misnomer that, are you attention seeking? Are you really going to

kill yourself, do you one attention or are you going to do it? A lot of,

particularly men, I feel, will go down this route. The problem that we

now have, if we don't get an injection of cash, what will happen

to the treatment? In the report that is out today, talks about the number

of suicides rising. He is right, it is fine, he is fine, we welcome him.

It talks about the number of suicides rising and in particular

female patients and it also talks about psychiatric care for new

mothers. That is very criticised. One fifth of new mothers have mental

health problems during pregnancy or after. We saw the clip of you from

our programme last July, how are you?

We are really well at the moment, James and I are doing great. How

would you receive the describe decay received? I know how patchy the

provision of a new mums and pregnant women are in this country. I was one

of the few women who were lucky to get a bed in a specialised mother

and baby unit. James Caan is with me. We had the services there, a

fantastic consultant psychiatrist. Nursery nurses and specialist mental

health nurses and a child psychologist who helped me bond with

my baby. Why was bonding with your newborn and issue? For the first

four weeks of his life I was psychotic, I was hallucinating, had

terrible delusions about death and the end of the world. I had no idea

who I was, let alone who James is. When I wasn't psychotic I was

anxious and worried about what I had done and the impact it had on him.

The psychologist in the unit worked with me to show me that James was

fine. He is bright and ugly. We need some more mini Chedjou. -- Boboli.

Not all new mums get that. In a wheeled way I was lucky my illness

was acute, I was so psychotic I had to be treated as an impatient. A lot

of people with a milder form of the illness struggle at home. A lot of

GPs don't have the training they need. Dave, told the audience about

your own experience in terms of anorexia and the care you receive? I

slipped into anorexia went I was 17, so ten years ago. A lot of the

things resonate, it was a downward spiral, but I never felt ill enough

to get formal therapy. A lot of the stories I had seen about people who

were down and out. I never felt qualified enough to go after it. Did

you say qualified enough to go and get treatment? You didn't feel you

were a legitimate cause for concern? Absolutely. Whenever you see

anorexia, you see people who are a bag of bones, the lowest rate and

the amount of calories. Anorexia is a competitive thing and I felt like

a fraud. It is the kind of thing if you are starving yourself all day

and you read someone has gone down to a certain weight and you are

above that, you think that maybe you are not anorexic. What about the

care you receive, what you decided to take up and what you turned down?

I turned down treatment for times because I didn't want to get rid of

it will stop I thought it was helping me. It was an addiction. I

loved it. Nobody talks about loving anorexia. Even though it was

potentially killing you? I knew it was killing me, I wanted it to kill

me. It was a short lived enjoyment and I couldn't see how much it was

destroying me. What changed things, when did you accept treatment? It

was great, I refuse treatment for times and it was the depression that

got me. But the mental health nurse said we can treated for depression,

but it won't help unless you get rid of the anorexia. Thank God for her.

I fill sorry the GPs because they get a lot of bad reports, but the GP

said I want to refer you but I don't know if you are ill enough. Back

came from a medical professional. Someone who found a lump on their

chest, the doctor would not say, let's wait until it is the size of a

melon. Like saying you should lose more weight before you qualify for

treatment. The serious criticism in this report from the boss of Mind,

Paul Farmer Hummet children having to travel miles from home to get

psychiatric treatment, new mothers not getting care, the rise in

suicides, the government is accepting all of the recommendations

and they are putting more money into the services, how do you welcome

mat? I am thrilled it is getting discussed, but until we get the

money on the ground in services we need, there are still families out

there and people struggling. It is all to do with the thresholds, you

literally have to be at death's door to get any treatment, at least the

right level of treatment. In physical health care, we don't see

that. People want to treat cancer early, heart attacks as soon as they

happen, strokes. It is interesting you raise the comparison between

mental health care and physical care, because for a number of years

politicians have been saying, this is what we're doing, they be

equivalent. But anecdotally, from people like yourself, it is not

happening? It is a point we need to make, as far as we are concerned it

is not the same. The longer you leave something, the worse it gets.

We have been in the situation where we have been dragged into the

hospital and perhaps it needn't have got to that stage, had it been

treated before. The report is great where it says about the 20 47 care

that is offered, that is fantastic. Talking about counsellors and

therapists within GP surgeries as well? It is very much needed. It is

a fantastic opportunity, because the less the stigma will be attached to

it. Thank you so much. James, you did... He is not bothered what I

think. Want to wave to the camera. Thank you, James. Thank you for

having us. And we'll be taking a closer look

at mental health provision and services throughout the week,

in a season of programmes All the details are on our website

at bbc dot co dot uk slash in the mind, and you can follow us

on social media at hashtag You can follow us on social media as

well. Police in Sweden are trying to work

out why a car plunged off a bridge, killing all four members of British

indie band Viola Beach, Vocalist, Kris Leonard, was 20,

guitarist River Reeves and drummer Jack Dakin were 19

and bass player Tomas Lowe was 27. They all died in the crash along

with their manager Craig Tarry. This is thought to be the last photo

taken of the band before they played They were killed in

an accident in Sodertalje, 18 miles from the capital Stockholm,

in the early hours of Saturday. Police say the car they were in

passed queuing traffic and didn't stop at a barrier which had come

down, while part of the bridge opened to let a boat pass

underneath. So you can see here that the middle

part of the bridge lifts without tilting, leaving a big gap

and the vehicle dropped 25 metres Viola Beach were being championed

by BBC Introducing, which supports undiscovered

and unsigned music - this is them performing Swings

and Waterslides in session # But we've not,

and all I wanna know You met the band a couple of times.

A lot of people won't have heard of the band, but they were up and

coming? The BBC has discovered some huge talent, Florence And The

Machine 's except. This band quickly had supported on Radio 1, they

played Reading and Leeds Festival. The BBC were taking them to South by

South West in March. The music industry were excited, Young lads

back came out of Warrington and there was such a big buzz about

them. This was their first gig? Their first gig outside the UK. They

had been touring the UK and this was their first gig in Sweden outside of

the UK. They were coming back on Friday for a show in Guildford. The

plan was to build things up over the next 12 months, so it is incredibly

tragic. We have heard reaction from some family members, who were

absolutely shocked, understandably. In terms of their fans, they will be

feeling the same thing? Yes, we are seeing new fans over the last 24

hours with the news and they have been looking at the band. Even

within the BBC, music presenters I spoke to yesterday were very upset

by it all. It is a real tragedy. But hopefully we will see the song you

have just seen go right up to the top of the charts and be a fantastic

legacy for the band. Thank you, Jason. Jason Carter from Bbc

Introducing. Thank you for your contributions on

the debate about Fifa. I didn't read as many as I want to do because we

had such prominent guests. But you can watch it back on the programme

page. On the programme tomorrow, a rare

insight into gang culture in this country. Enjoy the rest of your day.

He was taken from me and I've been looking for him ever since.