16/02/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

This morning: Gang violence and the searing impact of growing

Beere went by that someone didn't die, and that was a good year

because I didn't lose someone. That was Lucy Martindale who grew up

surrounded by gangs in Brixton This is what happened as she talked

to current gang members I know who you are now, and that is

cool. I don't want to be incriminated. If I was doing

something incriminating, my people don't live round there, such and

such. That is different. Also on the programme: From today,

BBC Three no longer exists Is this the future or a failing

of youth audiences? We'll ask the new

controller of BBC Three. And scientists say a potentially

revolutionary technique for the treatment of blood cancer

has produced extraordinary results We're on BBC Two and the BBC

News Channel until 11 this morning. Throughout the programme we will

bring you the latest developing and breaking news.

Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

And of course you can watch the programme online wherever

you are via the bbc news app or our website, bbc.co.uk/victoria.

This morning: A rare insight into life in gang

Lucy Martindale is 26 years old and grew up in Brixton

or friends have been killed as a result of gang violence.

She experiences post-traumatic stress disorder and wanted

to investigate the impact those kind of brutal,

senseless deaths have on people's mental health.

This is her take on it - she's been to meet long-standing

The year went by that someone didn't die, that was a good year,

Now, some people are sadder than others for much longer.

When I do sleep, I would have dreams about that same night,

that same day when my friend was killed.

"We are labelling you with this disease, you are diagnosed

with this, take this tablet," and now you're taking these tablets,

Then you wake up and the sad reality hits you, and it hits you hard.

I've had sleep problems ever since, for the past five years,

to the point I've needed to take medication.

It was quiet, a nice estate until I got to about ten years old,

and that's when gangs first started to...

It was Sunday afternoon, playing out in the park,

loads of other people around, and three or four gang members came

along and there was a fight that broke out and then,

I saw my cousin on the floor with a screwdriver in his head.

Suddenly that's when I learned about this life I didn't know existed.

Always getting a call, just hearing, months later,

or sometimes immediately, depending, that someone else has been killed

that I know, and it just made me more and more sad.

That's when I started to get depression.

A lot of deaths that have happened is people I grew up with.

Not all of them I was with all the time or spoke to,

but they were my friends growing up, in the same neighbourhood.

Then every year went by that someone didn't die,

that was a good year cos you haven't lost someone.

The one that sticks in my mind was a young boy, he was 15 years

I got a ping on my Blackberry at the time to say he'd been killed.

I was just so upset, depressed, couldn't sleep.

Something could trigger off a memory, even going past the area,

someone saying something just brings flashbacks,

and I've had sleep problems ever since, for the past five years,

to the point I've needed to take medication.

The first time with the mental health services I was roughly

I was given tablets, one counselling session,

then another death happened, then you feel worse,

and then the killings just keep going on.

In the end, I just felt like I was going to have a breakdown.

I'm 26 now, and each year since I was 12 a friend or relative

In London, this type of violence is more likely to affect my

community, the young black inner-city community.

So I wanted to speak to gang members to ask them how they think this

level of violence impacts on their mental health.

It was difficult to get them to talk to us, but we found

Remember, people are not depressed, you know?

We go through highs, we go through lows,

we go through money, then we go through being broke,

Now, some people are sadder than others for much longer.

Maybe I'm stronger in mindframe than he is, so he'll be sadder

But what it is now, you'll go to the doctors and they'll just say,

"Yes, we are labelling you with this disease,

you are diagnosed with this, take this tablet."

And now you're taking these tablets, it has messed up completely.

And then you want to label him a madman?!

You adapt to your surroundings, so it does affect people.

Some cases, a minority, it's been wrong place,

wrong time, or it hasn't been premeditated.

Maybe the fight had broken out and then a bottle was broken

Don't get me wrong, some people do go out there and they want to go

and kill people, like, "This is my motive,

But what I'm saying to you is now, in other circumstances,

HEATED CHAT OFF-CAMERA: We'll be pretty quick.

Saying, "Why man filming him and looking at...?"

You saying move from the block... You get me, son?

I know who you are now, it's cool. It's over.

I'm not even answering that question, I'm answering the question

There could have been a situation now, but I'm not that stupid.

But obviously I felt like I was being disturbed.

If I was doing something incriminating and a man told me,

"You're doing something incriminating round here,

my people that live around here, such and such," that's

I'm not doing nothing incriminating, so, if anything,

The altercation showed us how quickly a situation could escalate

into violence, which is something that often leads to a death

I came to meet Junior, who had personal experience

I was never in a gang, but at the same time I was,

to some extent, influenced by gangs because of some of the situations

Could you tell me what happened when you were at school?

It was the last day of our GCSEs, and we were being kids

on the last day, you know, writing on each other's tops,

water balloons, eggs, being silly, whatnot.

Then, like, a fight broke out between two of my friends.

Next thing I knew, one of my friends just collapsed and fell

on the floor, and we were like, "Huh?"

He's gasping, holding onto his neck, gasping, trying to breathe,

Then we saw the holes and stuff like that, "Oh my God,

So we're all surrounding him, trying to keep him alive,

mouth-to-mouth, holding his hand, telling him, "Bruv, just breathe

with us, don't go, bruv, just stay with us, stay with us,"

What is it like to witness something like that?

It's like, one minute you're just being a kid and thinking,

"The world is my oyster, I'm never gonna die,

I love life, life is fun, fun and games."

Next thing, it's like, "Hold on, this only happens

This isn't meant to happen to us."

It's really traumatic, and it puts a lot of

I'd have sleepless nights, and when I do sleep I'd have dreams

about that same night, that same day when my friend was killed.

But my nightmares would be like, rather than him dying,

he survived it, or somehow I was able to prevent it,

then we laughed about it afterwards, then I managed to make

Then you wake up and the sad reality hits you, and it hits you hard.

For me, personally, it made me less afraid to die,

I was a lot more hot tempered, a lot more hot tempered.

I reacted violently to a lot of situations that could have been

resolved with just a good talking to, telling them about themselves,

but I realised that I kind of lost control of my emotions.

We got into a lot of altercations and into a lot of trouble,

because we were finding it hard to deal with the aftermath of losing

Even though some might say, "Hold on, what's your friend dying

got to do with you robbing people with guns and stuff like that?"

It's because we're angry, we were hurting.

At the time, it was just like, "Life is short and somebody can take

it, and before I let you take me out, I'm going to take you out,"

because I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.

When you went to prison, did the police, prison officers

or probation offer you any help for your medical needs?

I wouldn't say I was offered any help, no.

What about your friends, did you all talk about the way

Yeah, we more or less counselled each other.

Although, in terms of my flashbacks and the dreams I had,

things like that, I never did speak to them about that.

When I was younger, I would have liked to have had opportunities

where I could channel my feelings, whether it's through music,

So I think there needs to be more in place to actually support these

youngsters with their dreams, because if no-one's there

to actually stimulate these youngsters, the streets

Anything could happen to you. These young men need help, but they are

too ashamed to ask for this help. We'll speak to Lucy Martindale

about the issues raised by her film If you have witnessed gang violence

tell me what you have seen and the impact on you and those

around you and I'll read out Comments from people already. John

on Facebook says, are you wanting us to feel sorry for them? What about

the ex-military, they suffer from PTSD because they have served their

country, where as these Muppets just want to look tough to their mates.

James on Twitter says absolutely horrendous. I saw the same when I

lived in the USA. Brenda on Twitter says, gangs are sometimes helped by

certain laws, making life difficult for poorer people helps banks earn

money. We need a big rethink. Keep them coming in.

From today if you want to watch BBC Three you'll have

to find your favourite programmes online -

the channel reached a quarter of 16-24 year olds, so are younger

A commuter, accused of sexually assaulting a well-known actress

as he brushed past her at Waterloo station,

says his prosecution was "preposterous".

CCTV footage showed they passed each other in just half a second,

yet Mark Pearson was arrested and put on trial.

The jury found him innocent in just 90 minutes.

He'll be with me in the studio shortly.

David Cameron has arrived in Brussels, where he's hoping

to secure more support for his plans to change Britain's relationship

All 28 European leaders meet on Thursday to try to meet a deal. One

EU leader has described the talks as being at a critical stage.

Scientists believe they may have made a breakthrough

with what they're describing as a potentially revolutionary

Researchers say they've had an unprecedented success rate

of more than 90% in achieving complete remission,

in terminally-ill patients with advanced blood cancers.

The results are really quite remarkable.

So we are treating patients who failed all other therapies.

They failed chemotherapy, bone marrow transplants often

and really they don't have many treatment options left.

The United Nations special envoy to Syria, will meet th country's

The United Nations special envoy to Syria, will meet the country's

The UN says the bombing of two schools and four hospitals

yesterday, thought to have been carried out by Russia,

The British singer, Ed Sheeran, has won the Song of the Year

and Best Pop Solo performance at the Grammy Awards in Los Angeles.

Taylor Swift wins Best album, the first female artist to win it twice.

And Lady Gaga performed a medley of hits to her hero, David Bowie, who

died in January. A leopard has escaped from a zoo.

Wildlife is experts are trying to recapture the animal before it does

any Let's catch up with all

the sport now and join Hugh. Ronnie O'Sullivan has divided the

nation? Yes, imagine if somebody said here is a scratchcard or a

raffle, you have the chance of winning ?10,000, completely free.

You take it? Not if you are Ronnie O'Sullivan, he has decided to turn

his nose up at the prize of 147 break and made a 146 instead. He

said that prize money wasn't enough. He has been labelled this

respectful. We will be talking about that just after ten a.m.. We will be

looking ahead to the Champions League, Chelsea have a difficult tie

against Paris Saint-Germain and they will have to do it without their

captain, John Terry. This heading things he has huge confidence in

those who will be playing. He will be a big mess. While we're talking

about PSG, their owners are in talk with David Beckham's proposed team

in Miami over buying a stake in the club. He ended his career with the

French club PSG. We will be talking about sale sharks and their fans

won't be happy to see Danny Cipriani moved back to the wasps. Fly who

resurrected his career in the north of England, now going to return home

to his first professional club at the end of the season. At deal

reportedly worth ?300,000 a week. We will have more later. Let me know

what you think about what Ronnie O'Sullivan did.

The latest inflation figures which measure the rate of increase

in prices for goods and services have just been released.

Our business correspondent Andy Verity can tell us more.

We have got inflation, which is higher than it has been for more

than a year at what it is still only no .3%. If you can remember the

1970s, which I can only just. What you were you born? I remember mars

bars going up, 1969. It has been wobbling around between -.1 for the

whole of the last year. Now it is .3%. It reflects an average for

goods and services. Goods have been falling in price, where as services

have been going up. The main goods that have been falling, petrol and

food, are not falling as fast, so they are not weighing down the

average as much. Part of the reason is, until now we have been looking

back at the oil price fall which started petrol prices falling last

January. Now this is January compared with the previous January

compared with December to December, we have less of that effect. So we

are starting to see inflation going up will stop at it is still too low

for the Bank of England's targets. Too low to make any incursion on

reducing the value of our debts and still problematic because it is so

low. Why is it problematic? To a lot of consumers, it seems great that

prices are low because wages are not rising by very much. But it is

thought to be healthy to have a bit of inflation in an economy. Think

about going back to the 70s, if you took a mortgage out of ?5,000, it

was a huge amount of money. By 1980, you had inflation is of wages, your

mortgage hadn't inflated. But if you don't have inflation, your debts

hang around and they become less manageable. Thank you, reckons he

can remember the 1970s. Scientists believe they may

have made a breakthrough with what they're describing

as a potentially revolutionary You may have heard that headline

before, but listen to the details. It's being reported that 94 per cent

of terminal leukaemia patients taking part in a trial went

into complete remission after testing a therapy that uses

the body's own immune cells That's an unprecedented rate -

but it is important to point out that so far that their work hasn't

been peer reviewed - thoroughly checked by a group

of experts in the same field. So although the work is in it's very

early stages, it's hoped the same technique could eventually be used

against a wide variety The lead scientist

involved in the research, Professor Stanley Riddell

of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer research Centre in Seattle,

explains how the technique works. Treating patients with acute

lymphoblastic leukaemia, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and chronic

lymphacidic leukaemia so that is an important point,

these are all blood cancers. We are targeting

a molecule on the cell's The results are really

quite remarkable. We are treating

patients who failed all So they failed

chemotherapy, bone marrow Really, they don't have

very many treatment In the acute lymphoblastic

leukaemia cohort, we are seeing complete

remission rates of 93%. In the non-Hodgkin's lymphoma,

when we have optimised the dose and the regiment we are using,

we're now getting complete remissions in about 64%

of those patients. These are really remarkable results

for an early case study, so they are obviously

very encouraging We still recognise

we have a long way to go to make this even better,

but certainly the initial results And we'll be talking

to Cancer Research UK later in our programme to find out if this

is as revolutionary as it sounds. That's Mark Pearson's view

of the criminal case brought against him for walking

through Waterloo Underground station in London on his usual commute home,

passing and possibly brushing against a woman who turned out to be

a well-known actress. She accused him of a serious sexual

assault and of landing Despite there being no witnesses,

even in this crowded station, and CCTV footage showing they passed

each other in just half a second, It took the jury 90

minutes to acquit him. As it is half term and we can go

into some detail, some of you may not want your young children to hear

this interview. We will be talking for about six minutes or so, just to

let you know. Welcome to the programme. What happened on this

commute? I have no memory of it, it was just another boring day going

home from work. When the police knocked on your door a couple of

months later, what did they say? What did you think? They said, we

are arresting you for a sexual assault. I said, what are we talking

about rape? They said we cannot tell you any more, we will take you to

the station and you will be interviewed. The impact was what?

Total shock, I couldn't stop shaking all the way to the police station.

Then they explained a little bit more, what did they tell you at that

point? They showed you a blurry CCTV image which they said was me, but I

couldn't be sure. I just assumed I was being mistaken for somebody

else. I presumed they would look at the footage and realise it wasn't

me. Let's have a look at this CCTV footage. Are you able to explain for

our audience what is going on? I didn't see this footage until six

months after I was arrested, so I wasn't sure if I was being mistaken

for somebody else. It is definitely me and walking to the concourse

towards the Jubilee line, about 20 metres or so from the barriers. I

take about half a second to walk past this woman, who I have never

met before, I have no recall. Half a second? Yes, we had it analysed by

NX bird. There it is again. He worked out that I couldn't have

taken more than half a second. You have a newspaper in your right hand,

a rucksack over your shoulder, you are holding the strap. The hand I am

supposed to have sexually assaulted her with was the hand I was carrying

the newspaper in. What did the police say she had said you were

actually accused of doing? A sexual assault. I don't know if I am

allowed to say penetration with fingers through clothing. I am

supposed to have pushed her clothing through and into her. How did you

react to that when the police told you that? I would never do anything

like that, people that know me, when I told them they laughed because

they know it is not my character. I would never do anything to hurt

anybody. When you saw this CCTV properly and finally, where you're

relieved? Did you think, thank God it will be chucked out and it is

ridiculous. I knew it was me on there, so I assumed they must have

looked at it and assumed it wasn't me that did this thing because I am

walking consistently, I don't go anywhere near her, really, I just

passed her. So when you charge, then what? A Moly rubble, it was the

worst day of my life because I was being charged for something I hadn't

done. I couldn't understand why they couldn't see I hadn't done it. It is

pretty obvious I hadn't done anything by those images. Did you

get a feeling from police officers they were slightly bewildered by

this case? When I was interviewed, they were bemused as I was.

Obviously, they didn't know. Who do you hold responsible for taking the

case to trial? The CPS. They should have looked at the evidence and

concluded, as everyone else has, I couldn't have done it. But for some

reason, they brought it to trial. The CPS only bring a case when they

believe there is a realistic chance of conviction? They are supposed to

think they will get more than 50% of conviction. They say in a statement

there was sufficient evidence for this case to proceed to court and

progress to trial. We respect the decision of the jury. I still don't

know what that evidence was. I haven't been told. I haven't been

given an apology. No explanation! When the charge is brought and you

know you are going to face a trial and be there in front of a jury, are

the moments you think, although you have already said he felt it was

bizarre, bewildering and preposterous, do you think you might

actually be found guilty? That would have been a realistic prospect had

we not had a brilliant barrister, Mark Bagshaw and the CCTV expert. If

it wasn't for that, I might have gone to prison and been on a sex

offender's register. You must think you cannot trust the system?

Exactly, you don't know where it will end. New Year about cases where

people have been wrongly convicted and you think, this could happen to

me. When the jury came back would not guilty, how did you respond?

Relief, but I was numb because I couldn't understand why I went

through that process to start with. The jury smiled at me and I was

thankful for that. But I still had no idea why it happened at all. What

impact would you say it has had on you and also your partner?

Traumatic, I have had therapy, anxiety, sleepless night. Night

sweats. Nightmares, everything. Does it feel like it is over now, can you

draw a line under it? No, because I still haven't found out why it

happened. You may never? We have written to the CPS, Alison Saunders,

asking for an interview. We have still got to get a reply. So, until,

if and until you get that, you are waiting for that explanation? I am

expected to just get on with my life, but I feel I can't.

We know that in sexual assault cases, the complainant is allowed to

be anonymous, that is the law. But your name is out there, you go

through a case, you are found not guilty, thank goodness, you would

say. Do you believe, as others do, that somebody like you should be

able to remain anonymous? My case was slightly different in that

nobody knew who I was, and it was my choice to tell the media about this

case because I didn't want it to happen to other people, and for all

I know it could be happening right now to other people, but I was

determined to try to stop that. So it is not quite the same situation

with me. I'd back what about the principal? Generally I agree that I

should have remained anonymous. And do you think that is just sexual

assault cases, or all cases? All cases. Thank you very much for

talking to us. Lucy Martindale is 26

and from South London - already she's lost 10 family members

and friends to gang-related violence - she talks to us about

the devastating impact of growing up That's a little late on in the

programme. David Cameron is in Belgium today, just about to begin

another meeting with European leaders in Brussels hoping to

convince them to back his renegotiation of Britain's

relationship with the EU. For many of you, what you are looking for

from the deal Mr Cameron is trying to hammer out on the in-out

referendum in the summer is awaited bring down the number of people

moving to Britain, the number of immigrants. Norman Smith has been

sorting out what is fact and what is fiction on immigration and the EU.

For many, immigration is the key issue in this referendum. Put

simply, many fear there are too many EU migrants coming here. So is the

European Union part of the problem, or part of the solution? Here is my

take on the euro facts and euro fiction. Let's start with the EU

rule book. Freedom of movement,

it's one of the basic Well, it means, if you're an EU

citizen, you can live and work It means there's nothing -

zilch, rien - the Government can do to bar EU citizens from coming here,

and that's a Euro fact. Here's my Euro calculator,

so let's do the figures. Last year, net immigration reached

a record high of 336,000. Of these, more than half came

from the EU, that's 180,000. So, immigration from the rest

of the EU is significant, and is rising fast, and that's

another Euro fact. But should we be concerned that

they're coming here The Government paid ?30 million

in child benefit in 2014 to families with children living abroad, and,

of these, two-thirds But more than 90% say they've come

to Britain to find work or study, and only around 2% -

just 2% - end up unemployed. That would suggest it's a Euro

fiction to say most come to live on benefits, even though tax credits

may boost their wages in Britain. Are EU migrants putting too great

a strain on our public services? Let's take two for an example -

schools and hospitals. There are over 1 million children

in schools in England who have This has more than doubled

since 1997, but these figures are for all pupils,

not just EU migrants. Here, the Government estimate

the total cost of the use of the NHS But these figures include

anyone who isn't British, so students, workers on visas,

tourists, immigrants, expats popping back

to see their old GP. So the bill for EU migrants,

who tend to be younger and healthier, is likely

to be a fraction of that. There may not be a Euro fiction,

but there aren't many Euro facts to prove EU migrants are a costly

burden on public services. And we will talk to Norman live

later in the programme. We also have another two films from him later in

the week looking at fact or fiction when it comes to the cost of

Britain's EU membership on and looking at red tape in the EU, those

will be tomorrow and Thursday. The Metropolitan Police

Commissioner, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, is due to meet the widow

of Lord Brittan today to discuss Scotland Yard's

investigations into the late Police interviewed Lord Brittan

about a historical allegation of rape,

but the former Home Secretary died last year, without knowing

the outcome of the case. Jenny Jones is the Deputy Chair

of the London Assembly's Police and Crime Committee and joins

us from Dorchester. What do you think about this meeting

that is scheduled for today, and what do you think Sir Bernard

Hogan-Howe should he saying to Lord Britain's widow? I think this is

dangerous territory. The Met is very limited in its apologies normally,

and I am concerned that he is feeling pressure from people like

the Home Secretary and MPs to apologise for the investigation, and

I hope he doesn't do that. There was an investigation into the

investigation, and the report says the network fully justified in

investigating the claims, and had ample reasonable grounds for

interviewing Lord Brittan. I'm assuming the commission might

apologise for just not having told Lord Brittan that they were not

continuing with it, but I very much hope it doesn't go any further than

that. So you believe you should have told, all the Metropolitan Police

should have told Lord Brittan before he died at the inquiry was not going

to be taken further? It is difficult to know, because I don't have a

clear idea of the timeline yet, and I'm not sure anybody has really laid

it all out. But if the net is going to start apologising for whatever,

then there are all sorts of other people they should be apologising

to, for example there were innocent women who had their lives ruined by

undercover police officers making relationships with them and having

children with them. I would have thought they were very good

candidates for apologies, but once the Met goes down the line, it is

very dangerous for them, and I hope the commission is very careful about

what he says to Lord Brittan's widow. Can I ask you about the

comments that Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe made last week, perhaps they should

be a shift towards complainants when it comes in particular to historical

sexual abuse allegations, sexual offence allegations, involving

high-profile figures. That his officers should not immediately

believe them, that there should be a shift in the way officers deal with

such complainants? To me, that sounds like quite a backward step

because it is hard enough, it has been hard enough the past, to get

the Met to take rape allegations seriously, and a lot of women have

suffered from that because they are not believed. So I think they have

got it about right at the moment, because one of the things we noticed

with other high-profile offenders in this way was that once it is known

that they are being examined by the police, then other people come

forward with their stories, and it makes a much more creditable case.

So I would advise the commission and against making any move to change

things from the way they are at the moment.

Thank you for coming on the programme, Baroness Jenny Jones,

David Beattie chair of the London assembly police and it evil.

Still to come today: Ronnie o'Sullivan passes up the chance

of a ?10,000 maximum break prize - why?

Well, in his words, it was "too cheap".

He's been called disrespectful - so what do you think?

Lots of you have got in touch. Ronnie O'Sullivan is disgusting, he

could have donated ten grams to help the heroes of any cancer charity. He

is an attention seeker. Dave on tweeter says, Ronnie is a legend, I

love watching him. It is coming up to ten o'clock, so it is time for

the weather, time for this walk that I do when Carol is here. It is cold,

and I have had enough! Do something about it!

You are always complaining about my weather! As you say, it is still in

negative figures in Cardiff, Exeter, Birmingham, but Edinburgh and

Belfast much milder. The reason for that is there is more cloud around,

and we also have some rain, so the climax acting like a blanket, and

you can see the clear skies across England and Wales which has allowed

the temperatures to tumble overnight. We have some of our

viewer s' pictures to show. I was up earlier than that!

Also a beautiful sunrise in Wales, in Conwy, look at those gorgeous

colours. And in Anglesey, a little more cloud coming in from the west,

and as we moved inland, we had clearer skies. And in

Worcestershire, frost, temperatures -4, even -7 in parts of England, so

hardly surprising that we saw a frost. That seems like this are not

really unfamiliar at this time of year in Scotland, and there is snow

lying and more snow in the forecast. And not necessarily just for

Scotland. So it is coming south?

Yes, it is. See you later. Today we do have some rain as well

as some Hilssner, and the whole lot is continuing to drift steadily

southwards. The rain coming in across the north and west

accompanied by gusty winds, gust of 60 mph across the Outer Hebrides

this morning. You can see showers developing ahead of the band of

rain, so that rain and wind will very slowly moved south-east through

the course of the day, eventually getting into the far north-west of

England, but generally speaking from most of England and Wales it will be

a gorgeous day with crisp winter sunshine. Even into the afternoon,

we will have that combination of windy and wet weather, and also the

Hilssner across Scotland. For Northern Ireland, we will see it

fairly persistent, but move away from the West, backing to sunnier

skies, and that Fairweather cloud, it will feel nippy with light

breezes, but temperatures are roughly where they should be, and we

are looking at temperatures of between five and eight as we head

through the South. This same band of rain is very slowly heading

south-east, depositing some sleet and snow on the Pennines, and we

will see some snow even at lower levels across parts of Scotland and

Northern Ireland. In the far south-east, where we remain under

clearer skies, we are looking at a touch of frost, but it is not going

to be as cold and night as the one that has just gone. We start the

forecast with all of this tomorrow, the rain continuing to edge

southwards, and of the day, increasingly we will see some of the

snow at lower levels, even across the Southern uplands and parts of

northern England, Wales and even in towards the Midlands. It is a risk,

but I would rather tell you about it than not. But find this weather

front, and mixture of sunshine and showers, and some of the showers

will have a wintry feel. By the time we get to Wednesday evening and

overnight, the band of rain continues to age down towards the

south-east, still snow embedded in it as well, largely on the hills,

but don't be surprised if you wake up on Thursday morning to a little

covering of snow. Again it will be cold and frosty, and eventually that

pulls away, it turns a little milder.

Hello, I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.

If you've just joined us, coming up before 11:00am...

This morning: a rare insight to gang violence and impact it has to those

If a year went by that someone didn't die, that was a good year

That was Lucy Martindale, who grew up surrounded by gangs

This is what happened as she talked to current gang members

Could have been a situation, but obviously I'm not that stupid.

If I was doing something incriminating

round here, my people don't live around here,

Scientists say a new therapy being developed for the treatment

of cancer could provide a long-lasting vaccine-like response

And Taylor Swift makes a big impact at the Grammys -

But it was Adele who stole the show despite having technical

difficulties. It's time for the main

news this morning. David Cameron is holding a series

of meetings in Brussels, where he's trying to secure support

for his plans to change Britain's All 28 European Union leaders meet

on Thursday to try to reach a deal. One EU leader has described

the talks as being Scientists say a new therapy

being developed for the treatment of cancer could provide

a long-lasting vaccine-like response Studies presented in the US have

suggested extraordinary results using genetically engineered immune

cells known as T-cells. The results are really quite

remarkable, so we're treating patients who've failed

all other therapies, so they've failed chemotherapy,

bone marrow transplants, so often, and really they don't have

many other treatment options left. The United Nations special envoy

to Syria, will meet the country's The UN says the bombing of two

schools and four hospitals yesterday - thought to have been

carried out by Russia - The construction of thousands

of sheltered housing properties has been delayed or cancelled ahead

of proposed benefit cuts. The Government says it's trying

to ensure that the policy works A male leopard which ended five

people in southern India earlier this month has escaped from a zoo.

Its disappearance has sparked a frantic search. Wildlife officials

are trying to recapture the animal before it does any more harm.

So Ronnie O'Sullivan's been criticised for failing to push

He couldn't be bothered because the ?10,000

Hugh will bring you all the sports news in a moment,

but here's what you've been saying about Ronnie.

Margaret has text to say it is time Ronnie O'Sullivan was kicked out of

snooker. He has such a high opinion of himself, he is rude and spoils

snooker for the other competitors. Someone else says, that is

disgusting. Another e-mail says, what a shame he did that. He could

have donated the ?10,000 to charity, knowing he has experienced

depression. Some organisations could have put that money to some good

use, especially as funding in that area is so low, as highlighted

recently on your programme. He wasn't completely emphatic it was

to do with the 10,000, but when he was interviewed afterwards, it was

more jokey? Yes, some branding him selfish and others making it clear

his last 147 at the World Championships, he made over

?160,000. He has been labelled one of the most eccentric characters. He

has caused outrage. He turned down an opportunity to take a ?10,000

prize for a maximum rake up the Welsh open. He did say the reward

wasn't big enough. As he reached 80, Ronnie O'Sullivan was told the

amount he could win, which disappointed him, as he opted to

take the pink rather than the black. He felt it wasn't enough money. It

is amazing, isn't it! There was a little smile from him there. But

afterwards he was branded Discus back full but instead he made a 146

in his win over Barry Pinches. I could have got the black and

possibly made a 147, you never know. I knew it was ten grand and I

thought, it was too cheap. Sometimes you think, to make a maximum is a

massive achievement. If they are going to pay you ten grand, it is

worth more than that. Once the prizes above it, I will go for the

147. Chelsea are without John Terry for their Champions League match at

PSG. He picked up by hamstring injury against Newcastle. He did

train yesterday but he has been ruled out of the first leg in

France. Chelsea are likely to play Gary K Hill and Branislav Ivanovic

shut centre back. It is a bit of a setback. But I am not the type of

coach that starts moaning, and moaning. We have to go on. The

players who will replace him, I have full confidence in them. The BBC has

learned that PSG are in talks to invest in David Beckham's Major

league soccer franchise in Miami. The proposed deal is through the

shareholder, Qatar Sports Club is in. David Beckham finished his

playing career with the Paris club. He and his partners in the proposed

franchise are understood to be in talks, but they are just one of a

number of interested parties. Aberdeen missed out to go level on

points with Celtic after they were beaten 3-1 at Inverness Caledonian

Thistle. They took the lead, but came unstuck. This goal sealing the

points for the Highland side. The England player, Danny Cipriani

has agreed a deal to move to wasps next season. He's going back to his

first professional club after four seasons at sale. He has won 14

international caps but missed out on the squad for the six Nations this

year. Hoping it will give him a lecture platform to get back into

the England fold. I will be back with the headlines at around 10:30

a.m.. We're on BBC and the BBC

News Channel until 11 this morning. Texts will be charged

at the standard network rate. Earlier we spoke to mark Pearson,

was cleared of sexually assaulting an award-winning actress at Waterloo

Station. We have some e-mails about this case. The poor man, he is

marked for life even though he was found not guilty. Martin says, that

poor man will be stigmatised life, despite being clear he is totally

innocent. This text is saying the law needs to protect the accused

until proven guilty, then should name false accusers. Thank you for

those, if you are text link there will be charged at the standard

network rate. This morning we've bought you a rare

insight into life in gang Lucy Martindale is 26 years

old and grew up in Brixton or friends have been killed

as a result of gang violence. She experiences post traumatic

stress disorder and wanted to investigate the impact those kind

of brutal, senseless deaths have Here's a short extract

from her full film - It was quiet, a nice estate

until I got to about ten years old, and that's when gangs

first started to... I saw my cousin on the floor

with a screwdriver in his head. That's when I learned about this

life I didn't know existed. Always getting a call,

just hearing, months later, or sometimes immediately, depending,

that someone else has been killed that I know, and it just

made me more and more sad. So I wanted to speak to gang members

to ask them how they think this level of violence impacts

on their mental health. We go through highs,

we go through lows. Now, some people are sadder

than others for much longer. But what it is now, you'll go

to the doctors and they'll just say, "Yes, we are labelling

you with this disease, you are diagnosed with this,

take this tablet." And now you're taking these tablets,

it has messed up completely. In London, this type

of violence is more likely to affect my community, the young

black inner-city community. I came to meet Junior,

who had personal experience of this A fight broke out

between two of my friends. Then we saw the holes

and stuff like that, "Oh my God, he's been

stabbed," sort of thing. What about your friends,

did you all talk about the way Yeah, we more or less

counselled each other. Although, when I was younger,

I would have liked to have had opportunities where I could

channel my feelings, whether it's through music,

through art, through mathematics. Because if no-one's there

to actually stimulate these youngsters, the streets

will stimulate you. The treatment I would have liked

to receive more than anything, I suppose, is having someone to talk

to, often counselling. Someone giving you the time

and showing that they're there to listen and care

what you have to say. But when people feel that no-one

cares, that's when people get angry You can watch the full film on our

programme page. Lucy Martindale who made that

film for us is here. Let me read you some comments

because some people watched your longer film earlier in the

programme. Laurie says, it is time to listen to the young. Somebody

says these gang members think they are tough, but they are weak. They

abuse like chances and they blame everyone but themselves. Is that

fair? It isn't fair because a lot of

people don't take the time to listen to the young people. They just

straightaway have a negative perception on them. When in fact, a

lot of people who are killed from gun violence, some of them are not

even in a gang. This text says my daughter's partner was fatally

stabbed through the heart by a gang. My daughter got no help and neither

did our eight-year-old granddaughter. Our daughter still

suffers with nightmares and flashbacks and also our grandchild

told her father was dead, taken by a gang in a heartbeat. It is tragic

and wrong and it is about time it was dealt with. You can relate to

the flashbacks and the nightmares? Definitely, when someone in your

family is killed, there is no offer of counselling, any help. You are

just left to deal with it. That is where a lot of these mental health

issues happen and there is just no help and support. It is really

frustrating. Also, trauma breeds trauma. When you have lost someone,

it makes young people angry at the world and then they go out and

commit crime. But you didn't and you have lost family members. You were

ten when you saw your cousin being stabbed in a park with a

screwdriver. You have lost friends. You didn't turn to crime? Because

people who lose family due to murder, I am not in a gang, my

family are not in a gang. It happens to ordinary people every day.

Richard says, when I taught in school in new Malden, we had to

watch out for the effects of gang attacks on our own boys. I know

there was one teenage boy who was killed on his way to school and you

are told... He was a friend of my family. You find out he was stabbed

on his way to school? It was outside the school gates. How does that

impact on you? Terrible, you are not even safe going to school. I am not

blaming the school, but children are not safe going to school. There

should be more protection for these young children as well. What effect

has been around this level of violence had a new? Traumatic. Some

people, it wouldn't affect them like it affects me because of what I have

gone through. Just being very anxious... So when you are out, you

hear some thing, you worry it is going to escalate into a fight, that

kind of thing? Yes, like in a nightclub if there is an argument or

a fight breaks out, you think somebody is going to be killed, and

that isn't a normal reaction. But for me it is, and for a lot of

people from my community, that is a normal reaction. People have sent in

messages saying, if people go around carrying knives or guns, they

deserve all they get. A lot of people that do carry a knife, it

isn't because they want to go and kill somebody, they are in fear of

being attacked, so they carry it for protection. There are some people

that go out and do that, but not everybody, so I would say don't

label all these young men the same. And the research shows that those

who are carrying a knife to protect themselves, often that weapon will

end up being used on them. Yes, I have seen it happen. What is it that

you want now? I would like more help for young people, when people are

killed in your family, more support from the Government, police,

doctors, I was offered counselling but I had to wait for months, and in

that time, things get worse and worse and it is out of control.

I know certainly when your cousin was killed, the police family

liaison officer, they are incredibly helpful, but that is for a period of

time, and... Once the court cases over with, they go away and you

don't hear from the many more. Then the family are left to deal with it,

and it is a long-term impact it has on the family. It has been nearly 20

years since my cousin was killed, and I still think about it every

day, and it still has a huge impact on my family. Some more messages

from our viewers. Derek has e-mailed to say, what were the police doing,

was this area treated as a no-go area? What would you say about that

when you were growing up in South London? It wasn't an issue for me.

When I got to about 14, that is one a lot of the postcode wars began,

and some people are not allowed to go to a certain area occurs they

will be killed. It is out of hand, and more needs to be done. Thank you

for coming in, and for making the film as well. Let's talk more about

the scientists in the States who say that a new therapy being developed

for the treatment of cancer could provide a long-lasting vaccine like

response to prevent the disease returning.

Studies presented at a conference in Washington reported a success

rate of 90% in terminally-ill patients

The lead scientist, Professor Stanley Riddell,

says the results are promising.

These are all blood cancers and we are targeting a molecule

The results are really quite remarkable, so we

are treating people who have failed all other therapies.

So they failed chemotherapy, bone marrow

Really, they don't have very many treatment

In the acute lymphoblastic leukaemia cohorts, we are seeing remission

And in the non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, when we have optimised the dose

and the regimen we are using, we're now

getting complete remissions in about 64% of those patients.

With me now to talk about this research and what it means

is Dr Emma Smith from Cancer Research UK.

Tell our audience a little more about what they have done here. It

was a clinical trial, taking out some of the patients' white blood

cells and genetically engineering them to find and destroy cancer

cells. These were patients who had white cell cancers like leukaemia

and lymphoma, and they had run out of other treatment options,

everything else had failed, so this treatment offered them a lifeline.

And why might this leads to some kind of vaccine type therapy? Lots

of scientists around the world are looking at genetically engineering T

cells like this group, but also creating vaccines and

cells like this group, but also drugs that takes the brakes off the

immune system or boost it, it is about re-educating the immune system

that cancer is a threat. Were their side-effects? For some,

unfortunately there were. The immune system is a very powerful weapon,

but with great power comes an element of caution, and that is why

with these clinical trials it is important to take a softer approach

and make sure that safety ultimately is tested first and foremost, that

is paramount. And this research at this point in time, it hasn't been

peer-reviewed, so other experts in this area haven't looked at the

results of these trials and put forward their own views on it.

That's correct. It is being put in for publication, so hope only we

will see results soon. Code this mean, could it mean some kind of

vaccine type treatment in the future? Could that mean the end of

chemotherapy? I don't think we will ever see the end of chemotherapy, it

plays an important role in the treatment of cancer patients. 90% of

men with testicular cancer are cured with chemotherapy, so we won't chuck

it out. But immunotherapy will play a part. We are seeing it coming

through in the clinic and curing some people with examples can

cancer. This particular type of immunotherapy is uncertain, they are

still testing it. But immunotherapy as a whole is still an exciting

field and showing great promise for patients.

Thank you very much for coming on the programme. S

In its 13-year S history, BBC Three has given birth to hit

and Stacey, Little Britain and Don't Tell the Bride.

But from today the youth channel will only be available online -

on their website, iPlayer or YouTube channel.

The move is a cost-cutting measure that will save the BBC ?30 million.

But will it alienate younger viewers from the corporation?

There's a new look, and it all starts on the home page."

# Or it will be a major catastrophe #.

Younger audiences increasingly are moving online, on demand,

looking at content on screens, wherever they happen to be

at whatever time of day they want to consume content,

and the challenge now is for us to take BBC Three and the brilliance

Let's talk now to Damian Kavanagh, Controller at BBC Three.

there is a slight delay on the line, even though he is only about five

miles from here. How will you measure success? We have a range of

measures. We are looking at things like Reach, quality, engagement with

our audiences. Today is the first day, and we will keep an eye on the

numbers and I guess from my point of view what I want to see is that it

will build day by day. I worked on BBC Three in the early days, and all

of the slots that now rate zero, get them to write something, was my

remit. What does API stand for, and what would be a good figure? Key

performance indicator, and we are looking at reach, all of the long

form shows will be on BBC One and BBC Two, but I look back at the kind

of figures that Josh our comedy on BBC One, those shows were doing 1.5

million, that makes them some of the biggest comedy is in the UK at the

time they go right. That was because they want BBC One. Your most popular

programme last Friday night reached just over 300,000. Do you want to

replicate that kind of figure, or get more? What we are doing now is

we are on a range of platforms, not just on TV, so we are looking across

iPlayer, social media networks, and that is where the audiences are, and

the reason we are doing this is because a lot of audiences are not

coming to BBC television are in that demographic, 16 to 24, and we want

to put our content onto the social media networks where they are. So

this is an attempt to fish where the fish are. But the BBC Trust to

approve the plan say this: The closure of the broadcast channel and

a reduction in programme budget is being half to ?30 million will make

it more difficult for the BBC to reach those aged 16 to 34, so you

have to accept that some young people will be lost. Viewing

behaviour of young people is changing massively. We were already

losing audiences by remaining on television. What we're trying to do,

and the plan behind BBC Three and the rationale is to try produce

content in different ways and put them in different places to reach

those audiences. There is a real danger for an organisation like the

BBC to stay standing still. We have always been pioneering. When BBC

online launched, people were saying, why are you taking money away from

TV and radio? And putting it into some thing knew that nobody knows

how it will go. And that is what we are doing with BBC Three. Imagine

BBC Three today without an online provision, and that is what we're to

do. We might drop off in the early days, but I have a brilliant team

behind me, brilliant programme makers producing brilliant content,

and I totally believe that the world is changing and we can't stand

still. You will be preaching to the converted, to a lot of people

watching this who watch our films and interviews online, on Facebook,

on Twitter and all the rest of it. But broadband is a key issue, and

some parts of the country still do not have good enough quality

broadband, so how much are you worried about that? That's why we've

made a provision that all our long form shows will play on BBC One and

BBC Two. We need to make sure all of our content can be consumed by

audiences on those channels. Will people need to pay via licence fee

to watch BBC Three programmes online? People will pay for a

licence fee to watch programmes. A lot of BBC activity happens online,

and they pay for a licence fee for the production of that content at

its source. There is a lot of conversations happening at the

moment, you will be across all the conversations about iPlayer and

tightening the loophole of the licence fee on that. What people pay

their licence fee for is for us to produce purposeful content. If you

are a 21-year-old and you are just go to watch BBC Three

are a 21-year-old and you are just catch up, do you need a licence fee?

That is a question for the regulator. I am IS down trying to

make the best content that we can and deliver to our audience. -- IS

it is becoming an ever more complex world, and we have to look at that.

There are talks of the services being merged into a youth channel

with one use control. Will you have to reapply fewer job? I am busy

running BBC Three at the moment, and there is a lot of talk and

speculation about what is happening across the BBC. In my mind, we do

something quite different to what BBC Radio 1 does, they do a

fantastic job, and we committing to investing money in drama and talent

led entertainment, they do what they don't we do we do. There is a lot of

collaboration across the BBC doing a project today, we are working really

closely with news and sport and BBC training, and lots of other areas

across the BBC. I will collaborate with anybody who has content that we

feel will serve our younger audience.

Give us an idea of the actual programmes we will see online? The

night, and I urge everybody to watch it, and a incredibly powerful

documentary. Three episodes and it won't an award. We have done

something special with episode for where we have done a retrospective

story, telling it over eight to ten minute episodes with lots of

supporting content. Coco, comedy and going forward we have a whole range

of documentaries, range of comedies and one thing I would save the

people to look out for is a drama we have, called 13, very compelling

written by a brilliant young writer. Thank you the talking to us.

On the BBC News Channel at 11.30, your questions on the BBC Three

switchover will be put to media expert, Steve Hewlett.

Thanks for joining us today - still to come before 11.

We'll speak to norman for the latest on David Cameron's his negotiations

in Brussels this morning, and we'll try to explain how

Are we really going to try to do that! That might take more than half

an hour. David Cameron, is in Brussels

for talks with leaders of the European Parliament hoping

to secure a deal to help keep The European parliament's speaker,

Martin Schulz, said he could not give any guarantee

that the institution would back the reforms put forward

by the Prime Minister. Scientists believe they may have

discovered a potentially It's claimed 94 per cent of terminal

leukaemia patients taking part in a trial went into complete

remission, after testing a therapy that uses the body's own immune

cells to attack tumours. The results are really

quite remarkable. So we are treating patients

who failed all other therapies. They've failed chemotherapy,

bone marrow transplants often and really they don't have many

treatment options left. The United Nations special envoy

to Syria, will meet the country's The UN says the bombing of two

schools and four hospitals yesterday, thought to have been

carried out by Russia, The construction of thousands

of sheltered housing properties has been delayed or cancelled ahead

of proposed benefit cuts. The Government says it's trying

to ensure that the policy works Ed Sheron has won Song of the year

at the Grammys. Lady Gaga performed a medley of hits in tribute to David

Bowie. A male leopard which injured five

people in southern India earlier this month has

escaped from a zoo. His disappearance has

sparked a frantic search. Wildlife officials are trying

to recapture the animal before it Now the sport. Ronnie O'Sullivan in

controversy again. He turned down the opportunity of ?10,000 for a 147

maximum at the Welsh open. Instead he made a 146 and has been branded

disrespectful. Chelsea will be without their

captain John Terry for tonight's Champions League match

at Paris Saint Germain. The boss said losing his leader will

be a setback. PSG are in talks to invest in David Beckham's

major-league soccer franchise in Miami. The England and sale

fly-half, Danny Cipriani, has agreed a deal to move back to wasps from

the start of next season. That is all the sport for now, but I will be

back with more across BBC News later.

Prime Minister David Cameron is in Belgium today -

he's just about to begin another meeting with European leaders

in Brussels hoping to convince them to back his renegotiation

of Britain's relationship with the EU.

But how does the European Union actually work?

We'll start with the European Commission.

Its the powerful civil service of the EU -

It's run by 28 commissioners, one from each member country.

It administers much of the money that the EU spends.

But this is also where new laws are born.

The Commission is based in Brussels, in this glass-and-steel building

It's based in Brussels, in this glass-and-steel building,

but sometimes everyone goes to this glass-and-steel building

Parliament started as an underpowered talking shop but has

become a serious player, voting on nearly all the laws

There's more - the Council of the European Union.

It's where the governments of the 28 member countries have their say.

Representatives of said governments meet in this building in Brussels.

Sometimes all the leaders meet here to give political

Generally, there a deal at the end - it's usually a compromise.

One more thing, there's the European Court of Justice.

It's there to make sure everyone sticks to rules

It also sorts out squabbles between the Commission,

It's in Luxembourg, and it looks like this.

And, in a nutshell, that's how the EU works.

Norman is here. What is going on in Brussels? We are getting to the

poker moment where they are eyeballing each other and then they

will show their hands. David Cameron might have to fold on the key issue,

child benefit. At the start of this process, he said the idea EU

migrants in Britain could claim child benefit for children living in

Poland and the Czech Republic, was nonsense and it had to stop. As

negotiations went on, he couldn't secure that concession. Instead he

got an agreement that said they would get the child agreement but it

would be indexed links to the cost of living in those countries. So in

Poland they would get the proportion in terms of the cost of living. But

now it seems he may not get that in fall, because the signs are that

will only apply to newcomers to the UK, so new Eastern European migrants

arriving. Which means, all 34,000 who currently claim child benefit

will still get it. It is only the newcomers which have it indexed

links. His critics are just waiting to pounce on this deal and say it is

a wash-out and you haven't got anything. If that does happen and he

doesn't get what he wants, how will he sell that to the British

electorate ahead of this referendum? There is an upside of sorts to this

in that David Cameron wants to have a fight and emerge on Friday morning

all bleary eyed and unshaven, he doesn't want to look all pristine as

if he has had dinner with the European leaders. He wants a tussle.

So if he has a bust up ahead of the summit, it is not a problem for

David Cameron, provided he gets a result. The danger is he has a bust

up and he loses and then he is in trouble. It is coming in from Nigel

Farage. David Cameron was supposed to meet certain group leaders... Do

you know this already? Kind of, go on. He was supposed to meet various

party group members were supposed to meet Ukip and Nigel Farage. He said

this is a total insult. Mr Cameron changed his entire scheduled just to

avoid seeing me. Several of the group leaders in Parliament have

problems with his proposed deal and he continues to run scared of the

news getting out Parliament will run this news down if it comes here

after the referendum. What happened, and Nigel Farage has a point in this

sense, originally David Cameron said, what I am proposing will have

to get the OK from the European Parliament. I'm going to see all the

leaders of the main groupings in the European Parliament. One of those

leaders is Nigel Farage. Downing Street is saying, hanged on he has

got to be here, there and everywhere, he has got to see Martin

Schultz, Jean-Claude Juncker and he doesn't have time to see Nigel

Farage. You can imagine Downing Street doesn't want the choreography

of David Cameron getting a hard time from Nigel Farage. I imagine they

conveniently thought, sorry, Nigel, we cannot make it. Thursday and

Friday, this European summit. Why Friday night, where will we be? We

will be in Go Mode, I think. On Thursday, maybe after the dinner

deal will pretty much be done. Then I expect David Cameron all come out

around Friday lunchtime, big press moments, victory in our time. I have

got the deal. Then, he rushes back to London, where he has to hold this

cabinet meeting because his Cabinet critics are saying, we want a

Cabinet meeting as soon as we have done the deal so we can be allowed

off the lead to criticise what you have done. Then about six o'clock I

would expect David Cameron to emerge from Number Ten and there will be a

podium moment when he says, here is the historic referendum I have told

you. Then my expectation, all sorts of things can go wrong, my

expectation is on Friday night, we will be in Go Mode for the

referendum. There is a big rally planned by those who want to lead

the European Union on Friday, then it will be all systems go. We will

look forward to it. Taylor Swift won the top prize

at the Grammys last night, making her the first woman to win

the album of the year award twice. And Ed Sheeran got his

first two Grammys, Apart from Adele, who was hit by

technical problems. Plans to build new specially

designed flats for the elderly, people with learning disabilities,

teen parents or those who've experienced domestic violence

are being delayed or scrapped due Our social affairs correspondent

Michael Buchanan can Fill us in on this. This is the

consequence of a benefit change. The Chancellor basically said, we are

going to cut the amount of housing benefit tenants in social housing

can get, equalise it to the amount of money that tenants in the private

rented sector can get. The government are saying it will save

money, ?225 million. They are saying the housing benefit bill was 24

billion at the moment, we need to cut that and save money. It will

only affect people who move into new houses from this April and the money

will not be cut until 2018. But this is having real consequences on the

ground now. Because several housing associations we have spoken to have

said they have cancelled or delayed once to build sheltered housing. The

National Housing Federation have said something in the region of 2500

units have been delayed or cancelled because of this. Even though the

government say this will not begin until 2018, these housing

associations are making decisions now on 20, 30, 40 year investments.

They say income being cut going forward, the schemes are not viable.

So the impact of the delaying of the building work? The impact, I was in

Harrowgate in an existing estate, it is independent living, but the

people, because of the nature of their illnesses, they need care. One

of the lips broke down and it was chaos. Some of these buildings are

not fit for purpose. The associations have spent years

planning these buildings, but they cannot hold them. They cannot make

them financially viable. The government is saying we are

reviewing the policy at the moment. But while the government refused the

policy, these houses are not being built. -- reviews. But the

Government are standing by that principle that it has got to be the

same as in the private sector? Yes, they say it is an issue of fairness,

but what the Housing Federation asking for is simply an exemption

for sheltered housing. Let's bring in Charlie Norman, who runs Saint

Vincent housing association in Manchester. And Ruth Preston lived

in sheltered housing for 18 months after experiencing domestic abuse.

Welcome to the programme. Could you start by telling our audience how

vital sheltered housing was for you, because of what you had been

experiencing? I had nowhere to go, nowhere to live? What else do you

do? Do you go and live on the streets? It isn't just the sheltered

housing that happens, it is also what comes with that as well, the

support from people, the support worker who helps you get over what

you have been experiencing through your life as well. So it is the

change of your life as well so that you have a roof over your head and

you can build your con audience back up and go and do something else. And

give us a little more of an insight into living into that kind of

accommodation. Tell us more about the support. The support comes in,

everybody who comes to the shelter that I went to, people come from all

sorts of different walks of life are different reasons, they might be

young, they might be old, whatever has happened to them in their past,

which is all kept confidential between their own support worker.

Each person gets their own support plan to support them if it is to do

with taking alcohol or drugs or anything like that, to support them

what they want to do for their career, whether they need educated,

learning, skills for life courses, all sorts of things to help people.

And it is also geared forgetting people ready to take up their own

tenancy afterwards. And the point you is it was safe. I know you have

described it as a life-saver. Tell us what you mean by that? Because of

where I went, there was 24-hour coverage on the reception desk, and

people around me all the time, and nobody could get through the gate

unless I wanted them to. So my front door could be knocked on unless I

wanted somebody to come and visit me. That was essential to me.

Charlie Norman, tell us about the supported housing schemes you run.

We run a range of different types of schemes like most Housing

associations, so it could be teen parents, people fleeing domestic

violence, people with learning disabilities, autism, and extra care

schemes for elderly people. So how might your association be affected

by these changes? We are very concerned about this policy.

Sheltered and supported housing saves money to the Government,

roughly ?640 million of savings, so the saving on the LH editor Michael

mentioned of 240 million,, the saving on the LH editor Michael

of housing saves money for the public purse, so what we are scared

of is we have for example a scheme in Bolton which is for people with

learning disabilities, and those six individuals who live there, I won't

mention the name of the scheme, have moved their from care whether care

costs ?2500 a week, and living in the supported accommodation costs

?800 a week, but it is 24-hour support, and those individuals are

out in the community, volunteering. Some level of independence. What we

do is about promoting independence. It links to the health agenda. And

when you say you will be very effective? It is not so much concern

about us, it impacts on our business plan that we are concerned about the

individuals. We have a scheme for young people for 16 to 25-year-olds,

and some of the young people who have gone through that have

genuinely chaotic lives, and have had no parental support, have had

very damaging lives beforehand, and most of them go off, 98%, go on to

more positive lives having stayed there. We had 15 people leave to go

to university this year, one with an offer of Oxford or Cambridge, which

is brilliant. And we are concerned about not being able to provide that

support. In terms of the money, the Government says it is providing

councils with ?870 million to help ease the transition. It is not a

transition, a fundamental issue about the long-term stability of

this type of housing, because there is no alternative summary who lives

in an extra care scheme for older people or somebody who has learning

disabilities, it is not a transitional phase, it is permanent

homes that people need. The discretionary housing payment is in

the name, so it is about the individual applying for DHP, and the

vagaries of local authorities and their systems and how they apply it

at whether the money will be available. And it is not something

that some individuals will find easy to do. So when you hear Michael say

the Government will review this, does that give you any confidence?

Michael, you might not know how long the review is lasting. It will be

out by the end of March. What we are asking for is some clarity and

certainty for these schemes. We believe it gets to the heart of what

we do, and offers a lot of support to individuals. We are talking about

the most vulnerable people in society, and there are 440,000 of

them. Rather than waiting for the outcomes of this review and then

that going into a period of looking at the outcomes, we need something

now, because we can't wait until April 2018 because we are making

decisions now about commissioning and building new homes, and as

Michael said earlier, 2400 new schemes have been shelved because of

this because there is so much uncertainty. And they are needed.

Thank you all. "We've

always been clear that we value the work the supported accommodation

sector does to protect the most Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran won

at the Grammys last night, but yet again, it was Adele

who stole the show - this time after technical problems

during her performance. I feel sorry for her. Here are some

of the other highlights from last night's show.

# You make me a killer # As we proceed

# To give you what you need # Leave my heart at the door

# I will see you # No one here before

This is ground control to Major Tom # You really made the grade...

What happened? Unfortunately, a technical problem. There is a

clanging sound you can hear on the piano, and apparently what happened

was a microphone dropped onto the strings of the piano, and they just

carried on anyway, and then her microphone dropped, but she tweeted

about it afterwards saying, things happen, there isn't much they can

do. Lady Gaga, that amazing tribute to David Bowie. Yes, visually

incredible. Some kind of computer-generated mapping on her

face. She had a spider crawling across her face which wasn't really

a spider. Yes, and they managed to create lots of different characters

from his career on her face before she launched into a medley of nine

songs with Nile Rodgers who collaborated with him. And the

winners, the losers? As you mentioned, Ed Sheeran got a Grammy,

he got two in fact. He has been nominated before, and this is the

first time he has won. A Grammy is a big award, and he says his parents

have come with him every year, and whenever he has lost, they are like,

don't worry. So he was delighted. But the big winner and the person

whose night it was was US rapper Kendrick Lamar. He won five Grammys,

and his performance was incredible. It was described as politically

charged, because he was using this platform to voice his opinion on

racial equality in the States, the prison system, black identity, and

following on from the Oscars and Beyonce at the Super Bowl, this is

another huge performance that talked all about that. So that is the

performance a lot of people are talking about.

Separately, people will have been following Kanye West's tweets over

recent days and weeks. Let's not go too far back, but what is going on

with him? He is a clever man, and he is... Is he? How'd you know? He is

releasing an album at the moment, The Life Of Pablo, and he doesn't

have to do any interviews, he can simply sit on Twitter, some people

think he is having a meltdown and others think it is very clever.

Yesterday we wrote up some of his tweets, and it was the most read on

the BBC News website for a lot of the morning. The most recent one

that has been retweeting tens of thousands of times was one saying, I

am so rich, I buy furs and houses for my family. He tweets a lot of

stuff that we could laugh at and all the rest of it, but there is a

campaign going on there. At the moment he is saying that his album

will not be released on anything other than Tidal to get people to to

that. His music is very popular, and Tidal isn't doing as well as spot if

I or Apple. So is this him helping out his mate Jay Z? I have been

awake since have passed one this morning, so I was looking over the

tweets, and he has 19 million followers? And he only follows one

person, do you know who that is? His wife.

Thank you. And thank you very much for your company today and for all

your messages. We are back tomorrow at 9.15, so have a good day, and

join us tomorrow if you can.