14/03/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.

"I was naive to support the Taliban, and I regret doing so,"

the words of Babar Ahmad, jailed in the States

In an exclusive interview on this programme,

the former IT worker from London also tells us

so-called Islamic State are alien to his heritage and beliefs.

Think deeply and carefully about what you are doing,

and don't allow yourself to be a pawn.

Don't allow yourself to be used by other people.

Don't let anyone bully you that the only way to paradise

is by bringing misery upon innocent people who have done nothing to you.

Watch that interview throughout the programme this morning.

Turkish war planes have hit Kurdish rebel targets in northern Iraq,

after a car-bombing killed 37 people in the Turkish capital, Ankara.

Turkey's President is vowing to bring terrorism "to its knees".

And Chris Evans has apologised unreservedly

after scenes for his new Top Gear series

were filmed near the Cenotaph in central London.

We're live on BBC Two and the BBC News Channel until 11 this morning.

Throughout the programme we'll bring you the latest breaking news,

and your views are part of the programme too.

If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

And of course you can watch the programme online wherever you are

This morning, in an exclusive interview, a British man jailed over

a website considered to be a key moment in the birth of the internet

jihad tells this programme he had been naive to support the Taliban.

41-year-old Babar Ahmad was convicted of two counts

of providing material support to terrorism

and sentenced to 12 and a half years in prison.

The former IT support worker had fought a record eight-year-long

campaign against extradition for offences committed in the UK.

British authorities never charged him,

but he later pleaded guilty in the States.

Two articles posted on a website he founded, called Azzam,

urged Muslims to send money and equipment to the Taliban,

who at the time were harbouring Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda

In his first interview since his release

from a high-security prison in the States eight months ago,

Babar Ahmad tell us he was wrong to support the Taliban.

He alleges he was hooded by officers in the Met Police,

of the European Convention on Human Rights.

He condemns so-called Islamic State as alien to his heritage and beliefs

and talks about meeting Labour's London mayoral candidate

Sadiq Khan twice since his release from prison.

We'll play you that interview in just a moment,

but first here's everything you need to know about his case.

The LP was very insistent on the needful military experience and

adventure. He thought it was a part of a devout Muslim's upbringing. And

it was a message which resonated with a lot of young people.

He would be viewed in this country and overseas as a terrorist. The

fact that he did not blow himself up, the fact that he did not kill

soldiers or innocence in other parts of the world...

In this first extract of our exclusive interview,

he tells us why he pleaded guilty to terrorism offences

and whether he considers himself a terrorist.

You pleaded guilty in the States to providing material support

for terrorism and conspiring to provide

And what that means is funds, personnel and equipment

and as the judge said, it was not about you planning a terrorist

attack, it was about you giving support via a website

at the time they were protecting Osama Bin Laden,

before he carried out the 9/11 attacks.

It means you are a convicted terrorist.

The judge, one of the most senior judges in America,

who sentenced me, Judge Janet Hall, after seeing all the evidence

in my case, she said, "This man is not a terrorist."

At the time I pleaded guilty, I had been in prison for nine

I'd been in solitary confinement for about just

over a year, and the prosecutors offered me a deal.

and you'll be back in England within a year."

Well, I view myself in the way that the judge described me.

She said, "This is a good person, he is not a risk to anyone,

and more importantly this man is not a terrorist."

So I mean, other people are entitled to their opinion about me,

but people who know me, and the judge who saw the evidence

against me, she came to the right conclusion.

She also said what you did was very serious, it's not the most serious

crime that can be committed, but you can't walk away

from the fact that what you were doing was enabling Osama Bin Laden

to be protected in Afghanistan and to train

the men who actually boarded the flights that drove

into the Pentagon and the World Trade Center.

You were, both by your voice and what you were asking people

to do, encouraging the Taliban to protect

Bin Laden and indeed to fight against the United States,

She also went on... But do you accept that?

She did make that statement, yes. Do you accept that?

She also went on to say that Mr Ahmad never believed

in or supported the views of Al-Qaeda or Osama Bin Laden,

so it was sort of like, by advocating support

for the Taliban, who at that time had,

due to their failure to hand over Bin Laden to the United States,

in effect that is what was happening.

Well, not knowingly, because at that time I didn't really

know what Bin Laden was about, but technically yes,

that is what was happening at the time, that the Taliban,

due to their failure to hand over Bin Laden,

and it wasn't known at the time, and ident know at the time that 9/11

is being planned and what Bin Laden is really up to, so my support,

my advocating support of the Taliban was to help establish an Islamic

society, but I do accept that, with hindsight,

I did it in good faith, but in hindsight

I regret doing that, and it was naive of me to do that.

Because it was a complicated situation.

To be clear, then, you regret supporting the Taliban back then?

Yes, yes. Why did you support them?

I think, during the 1990s, the late 1990s,

after my experiences in Bosnia, after meeting survivors

from the Srebrenica massacre, I think what the United Nations

did at Srebrenica, there was a sense of,

we have to protect ourselves, and if we don't protect

ourselves, no-one is going to protect us.

So your experiences, then, were they crucial in terms

of the motivation for the setting up of the websites?

Because what I saw in Bosnia, and at the end of the war in Bosnia,

then I lost a lot of friends,

who died fighting to protect the Bosnian people.

And I considered them heroes, I still consider them heroes.

And I wanted the world to know about them, and so we made a series

of audio cassettes and books talking about their stories

Just preserving their legacy, just telling the world

about these heroes, these great men, who went and left their own lives

behind in order to help bring life to other people.

In 2001, an article was posted on one of the websites

for the Taliban government in Afghanistan.

You know, "What you can do to help the Taliban" was the headline,

and it talked about how people good, effectively, send $20,000 to them,

You didn't post that article, did you feel a responsibility

for it being on the website, though? Yes, of course.

I was the founder of the website, so even though I didn't post that

article, as the founder of it, I accepted criminal responsibility

and that, together with another article, was the sum total

for which I pleaded guilty, that was my offence.

And did you agree with that article,

what you could do to help the Taliban?

The article called for people to send equipment to the Taliban,

Did you agree with that? Yes.

At the time, there was a risk that there

This is all happening way before 9/11, so the Taliban,

at that time, they are in government with three embassies,

recognised by three countries around the world,

and they are involved in a civil conflict

So at that time, it was said that Russian troops might

launch a chemical invasion of Afghanistan

and so the website published appeals calling for gas masks

to help defend themselves against a chemical attack.

One of the articles was still on the website after 9/11,

when it was clear that Al-Qaeda was responsible for 9/11.

There was 4,000 items of content that went on the websites.

So, obviously, you know, a lot of them,

they stayed on for way after. It's...

It's easy to put everything in the context of 9/11,

whereas, at 4000 items of content on the website,

98% were about Bosnia and Chechnya, and then right at the end

of the life of the website, there were these two articles

supporting the Taliban, which, of course, I mean,

in hindsight that decision to put those articles on the website

and to advocate support for the Taliban,

then I regret that, and it was naive at the time.

With the hindsight of what is actually going on

In late 2001, again, after 9/11, Azzam posted a farewell message.

"We believe the word of Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban

as Muslims when they say they had nothing to do

with this terrorist attack, over and above the word

If they did it, they would proudly say so, because they are not

afraid of the reprisals from anyone."

What did you think of those sentiments at the time?

Here lies the naivety of taking people's words at face value.

And strange and odd as it seems now, at the time I never believed

that Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda were behind 9/11.

They only accepted responsibility for it, I think it was about

four years later, in 2005, where Bin Laden made a statement

saying, "Yes, we accept responsibility for that."

So even though much of the rest of the world

knew it was Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden?

Well, there was assumptions, and me as a Muslim, who am

You know, if I have to take sides, Bush said, "You are either with us

So after that, it wasn't really about

Al-Qaeda, it was about this country, you know, the Taliban,

they are being attacked, and if I'm going to

take sides, then obviously I'm going to take their side.

It doesn't mean that I support Al-Qaeda or Bin

Laden, because of my experience in Bosnia where, you have a Muslim

nation that is attacked by a foreign invading army,

then my sympathy would be with the Muslims,

How would you describe the Taliban now?

Well, I was wrong to advocate support for them,

You have always made it clear that you condemn 9/11.

Do you understand why the American authorities might think otherwise?

I sort of get where the United States is coming from,

they were angry, the case agent who investigated me told me

so during the flight, during my extradition.

And he told me, I lost 14 colleagues in 9/11,

and as he said that, he looked at me in the eye,

and he said, that is what motivated me in my work.

So inside I thought, what, somebody did

When people are angry, they don't make rational

decisions, they don't think rationally.

So one of those irrational decisions was to think

that somehow I had something to do with Al-Qaeda or Bin Laden.

To come after me, and after 11 years the judge declared that

that was all nonsense, she rejected that, that I never

supported Al-Qaeda or Bin Laden or associated with them or advocated

You were sentenced in 2014 to 12 and a half years in jail,

and the US authorities actually wanted a jail sentence of 25 years.

I didn't expect the judge to say the words that she did about me,

that this is a good person who never meant any harm to anyone.

And it was a pleasant surprise, I mean, I knew that in my

heart all along, but it was a surprise.

You have said a number of times that you are not a terrorist,

you have quoted some of the judge's comments.

Yes, she said you are a good person, yes, she believed you posed no

threat to the public, but that what you did was serious.

Some of the things I mentioned earlier.

You pleaded guilty to terrorism offences, two of them.

Therefore, in the eyes of the law, you are a terrorist.

In the eyes of US law, not in the eyes of British law.

As the judge said, pleading guilty to material support

for terrorism does not make you a terrorist.

Well, according to the laws of the United States,

I am a convicted felon, to use legal parlance.

The last time I checked, British law applies in Britain,

so absolutely, to make it clear, according to the laws

of the United States, I am a convicted

felon who pleaded guilty to providing material support

to terrorism and conspiring to provide

But that makes no difference to me, who I am,

The judge made that clear, and I think ultimately the judge's

It is as though you want it both ways, you pleaded guilty,

it was a plea bargain so you could effectively,

you know, come home soon, come back to Britain sooner.

And now you are here it is like that is irrelevant now.

Well, no, I want to make it clear, I have no regrets

Pleading guilty in America, I think that was the best decision

of my life, because it allowed me to come

So I am not now saying that I shouldn't have pleaded guilty.

According to the laws of the United States,

I was guilty, and that is why I have pleaded guilty.

Gary says I think this man is brave to go against the Taliban, come out

and public and show your face is a feat within itself. I agree he was

wrong, putting it lightly, this shows the intelligence of Babar

Ahmed to recognise it, unfortunately too late because it was after he

contributed to terrorist activity. Another said he was wrong to support

Islamist extremists. Another, one soon learns the value of liberty in

free society when liberty is withdrawn for abusing the freedom

bestowed upon you. Ian, hang on, he supported a terrorist organisation

blowing soldiers and citizens up and he is complaining because he had to

wear a blindfold and it breached human rights, have I missed

something here? hour version of this

interview on our YouTube page and after ten we'll get his reaction

to the growth of so-called Islamic State a group who didn't

exist when he was first Babar Ahmad wasn't paid

a fee for his interview, in fact we don't pay

any interviewees. We'll be speaking to the mother

of a 14-year-old boy murdered The police force which handled

the case apologises unreservedly And as the rise in STIs is blamed

in part on oral sex, we'll be asking if the under 30s

know enough about how to protect Turkish war planes hit Kurdish rebel

targets in northern Iraq after a car-bombing killed 37 people

in the Turkish capital, Ankara. The Interior Minister

said the perpetrators, -- the president said they would

bring it to its knees. The government blaming rebels for the

attack. Has any one group claimed responsibility? Not yet, nobody

holds the responsibility of the attack. We can confirm the

investigation is continuing in Ankara. The police arrested 14

people, suspicious, maybe they had links with the explosion. At the

area here, security closed it and earlier security put a barrier in

front of the area where the explosion happened. We cannot see

exactly what happened there but the information we have, from the

security, that the investigation teams are trying to get more

information about the identity of the victims. Some sources are

talking about a lady, maybe she is behind this attack. All the

information now is they ask the family of the lady, they ask for a

test of the blood to test DNA to see if it is exactly the attack's. We

have information that the Turkish Prime Minister will visit the scene

after one hour and we are expecting that... He promised to say today who

is behind this attack and so everybody is waiting for this

information. Thanks. Babar Ahmad, the former IT worker

from London who was jailed in the US for supporting the Taliban online,

tells this programme exclusively he was naive and

regrets his actions. We will bring you more of that

interview throughout the programme. The party of German Chancellor

Angela Merkel has been defeated in two out of three states

in regional elections, in what's being seen as a sharp

rebuke to its policy of welcoming Chris Evans has apologised

"unreservedly" after scenes for the new Top Gear

were filmed near the Cenotaph It was seen as disrespectful to the

Armed Forces. A successful mission to Mars has been -- successful

launch of the mission to Mars has happened in the last few minutes.

It was a packed weekend of sport. Scotland beat France which means

England are Six Nations champions. I will get onto what that means for

them in a second but let me tell you about Scotland, the first time they

have beaten France in a decade. They conceded a try early in the Scottish

and had to put a shift into comeback. A beautiful solo effort by

Duncan Taylor and if you have not seen it, go to the BBC sport website

to see it. An incredible solo effort. For England, their first

title since 2011 and the new coach Eddie Jones has won it at the first

time of asking and what a turnaround from the World Cup shambles a few

months ago. Despite the England victory, it has been overshadowed by

an England player, Joe Marler, who has been accused of using a racially

derogatory term against Welsh player Samson Lee in relation to Samson

Lee's traveller background. We understand officials are

investigating and we will look at that more in-depth when I return. In

tennis, Rafael Nadal, 14 time grand slam champion, said he will suit the

former French minister for saying his time off in 2012 was probably

due to a positive doping test. He said he has heard allegations like

this before and not challenge them in the past, but no more, so we will

hear more on that when I come back just after 10am.

Next - there are warnings that unprotected

oral sex is spreading more sexually transmitted infections

The British Association for Sexual Health and HIV has told

Radio 1's Newsbeat that many under 30s don't know they can get

infections like genital herpes, chlamydia and drug resistant

We're going to talk frankly now about oral sex, STIs and protection

now with Tyler John who's a 20 year old student in Leciester and works

part time for a sexual health organisation.

And Dr Peter Greenhouse, a leading sexual health consultant,

You may not want young children to hear some of this conversation

How can people protect themselves through contracting STIs through

oral sex? Either using condom is all a dental damn. Nowadays, the only

people who meticulously use condom is for oral sex are female sex

workers, which is a problem for everyone else because one reason we

have persistent gonorrhoea is that they do not permeate the throat so

well. You have to know infections can be passed on. It is an important

issue, worth talking about. Do you think people are aware they can use

condom is to protect themselves when it comes to oral sex? Most people if

they thought about it could do but in the heat of the moment they might

be meticulous about using condom is for penetration but very few people

bother to use them for oral sex. Although it would dramatically

reduce the risk of transmission is, a certain number of infections pass

this way. It is not the most important method. But it is on the

increase. What is important about it, if you have got a faster rate of

change partner, you have a greater risk of passing of infections and

you want to that. How where are you off the risk of STIs and also your

university friends? I like to think as a sex educator I am aware because

I have had the opportunity to be exposed to this information. I

cannot speak for everyone at university because there is a

diverse range of people but I have friends that are not using

contraception when they have penetrative sex which is

unfortunate, but as an educator we do not like to blame people for

misconceptions they might have author not using them because we

believe there is something inherently wrong with the sex

education system. I would like to think everybody knows what a condom

is, what is a dental damn? It is a piece of latex this big. It is

placed over the vagina all opening for oral sex and will protect. It

will help against the spread of STIs which can be contracted from oral

sex. Do you agree with the doctor with dating apps, people having more

partners, it can contribute to the rise? People are being exposed to

situations where they will have more sex. That is something, as

educators, we warn against. We always say, for every change of

sexual partner you should go to the GP or local clinic to be tested. You

should be tested once a year. Does anyone do that, every time they

change sexual partner? That is what we encourage. It would be ignorant

of me to say all people engaging in sexual activity will get tested

because with the data released, I am not sure of the statistics, but if

there is an increase in the spread of STIs through oral sex, that is

not happening, it is because people are not aware, people are under the

misconception you cannot catch anything that way. Thanks.

Coming up, the British man jailed for supporting the Taliban,

but he has told this programme he regrets doing so.

We will have more of your reaction to it, Peter says, even if he knew

nothing about 9/11, how could he support the Taliban's attitudes to

citizens, especially to women? Another says, respect the honesty of

Babar Ahmad. No amount of money

will bring my son back, the words of a mother

whose 14-year-old son was murdered by a man

he met online. Breck Bednar was killed in 2014

after going to the home of Lewis Daynes, who was then 18,

whom he'd met online. This was the phone call Daynes

made to police I need police and a forensic team

to my address, please. My friend and I got

into an altercation and... I am the only one

who came out alive. Are you telling me

you've killed somebody? Daynes is now serving life

for Breck's murder Weeks before Breck was killed,

his mother, Lorin LaFave, had called police with concerns

about his relationship with Daynes. They did nothing,

and an investigation later found the force failed to deal

with her properly and that call-centre staff his

mother spoke to lacked knowledge. The force has now

unreservedly apologised, and paid the family an undisclosed

amount of compensation. Thank you very much for coming on

the programme again. Do explain for those were not aware of the details

how Surrey Police failed to protect your son? Well, I felt Breck was

being groomed, and it had been over a matter of months his personality

had changed, his ideology was changing, and I felt he was being

brainwashed. So I did what I thought was the most highest, important

thing I could do, and I told them my concerns about Breck and some of the

stories, like the predator has said he had given $2 million in Bitcoin

trades to the Syrian rebels, and stories that he had worked for the

US Government and at this amazing undercover career, and how I felt he

was grooming boys, Breck in particular. I was told that police

intelligence would be checked, I was told that three times. Five times I

mentioned Breck was being groomed, so I felt a false sense of security

that this person would be checked out, because I did feel that he was

a dangerous predator. Surrey Police, as I said in the introduction,

clearly accept that mistakes have been made, they are unreservedly

apologise. They released that in a statement yesterday. Have they

apologise to you? They did try to make an appointment with me, and it

literally coincided with the release of Daynes's second tweet to me, so I

had to cancel the appointment to deal with police on that issue

instead. I do not know exactly who is supposed to apologise, because it

is such a big entity. You know, it is quite formal, and it is not face

to face at this point. Do you want that? Do you need that? I don't

know, because really it comes down to people who have left and

resigned, weather will be misconduct charges, and their supervisors, the

people running the department. It is a big entity in itself. It is just

nice to have this stepping stone, take it off the list, this horrible

tragedy, and move forward with the Breck Foundation. Why was it

important for you to pursue damages? What we wanted at the beginning was

to find out what really happened, because at the beginning we didn't

know if Essex had failed to put Daynes into the system because you

was known to the police. That is where he lived, your son travelled

to his arm. He was known to the police for prior allegations of rape

against a 15-year-old boy as well as having indecent images of children

on his computer and hacking his school computers. He was known to

police, and we wanted to get to the bottom of where the failing was in

the chain of investigation. The IPCC did investigate both forces.

Unfortunately, we have to fight to have those being dependent

investigations, because the last thing we wanted was for the forces

to investigate themselves and not look thoroughly and off, and that is

why we had to fight to get independent investigations. --

thoroughly enough. Can I ask a much compensation you have received? We

are not allowed to discuss any details of the settlement. It is, of

course, there is nothing that will bring Breck bag, a public apology or

anything. It is just another step to move forward. You mentioned the call

handler resigned, the supervisor resigned. It meant, amongst other

things, that they avoided misconduct charges. We are going to play some

of your initial phone call to Surrey Police, so our audience can hear it.

We do not identify the call handler, and it has been edited.

How can I help? Yes, I have a 14-year-old son, and there is an

18-year-old unknown... Well, he says he is 18, and I feel like he is

being groomed. He has been turned against his family and schooling,

and it has been ongoing for a while, I'm getting really concerned that

this person is not who he says he is. What sort of concerns do you

have? Obviously, there is an age difference... He is trying to turn

them against everything. He is talking about government, he is

anti-government, he said he worked for the US Government, but he is

anti-government, he says he has given ?2 million to Syria because of

their crisis. OK. He is against Christianity, he has told my son he

should not be obligated to go to church, that he should not go. So

there are religious elements, government almonds. And he is

grooming him for something. -- government elements. He is trying to

change is thinking set on everything.

Surrey Police say they "accept mistakes were made in how

Ms LaFave's telephone call to them was handled and responded to

and unreservedly apologises for them."

"As part of the settlement, Surrey Police have agreed

to implement recommended changes to their procedures to ensure

that other children like Breck are protected."

Your call in total lasted for just under 12 minutes. The call handler

said they did not recall having any training specifically on grooming,

and a new procedure has since been put in place to make sure that child

sexual exploitation is recognised at that call handling stage, and then

it will be escalated to an intelligence officer, and of any

duty inspector. Plus, they now have a template for which questions to

ask if someone like you, who might call them with concerns about

grooming, is that enough? I think it is a start. We need to make sure

that this is maintained, and the problem with any sort of position

like this, you know, it is high stress, it is shift work, long hours

- retention is difficult. This training will need to be done on a

regular basis, because that is constantly new people coming in,

people do not understand that boys can be groomed as much as girls. Any

child has a vulnerability, and because there was no sexual

messages, I think that also made the call handler and the call close,

they are both at fault, the call close could have said, where is the

PNC checks? The Police National Computer. Neither of them made an

effort to do this simple check. So it is a lot of training, but it is

not just a one-off, it has to be ongoing, and not just for Surrey,

but forces all over the country. If they had checked the Police National

Computer, they would have found a previous allegation made against

Daynes in 2011. You believed that you had a tweet from Daynes

recently, you believe you have had two online messages from him. The

Prison Service say they have found nothing in his cell that he could

have used to send that. The police are investigating, where are they up

to in that? Why do you believe it is him? I have just heard today that

they have got a lead but they cannot tell me what it is. He is very

techno savvy, so he has got it going to different ISP addresses. Google

and Twitter say he has a right to freedom of speech, which makes me

completely shocked that a admitted murderer is allowed these rights to

harass, slander, libel the mother of the victim. We are waiting for

investigations, but it is very difficult, so we need police trained

so that they can catch up with the criminals and be able to be more

savvy than them, and that is the problem right now. Thank you very

much for coming on the programme, thank you for talking to us.

Still to come in the next hour of the programme,

an apology from Chris Evans over scenes were filmed

for the new Top Gear near the Cenotaph

Plus, we will play you more of the interview with Baba Amr and, the

British man jailed for supporting the Taliban online. -- Babar Ahmad.

Many of you getting in touch about the first part of the interview,

which we played just after 9:15. Pamela and Facebook, I know there

have been things I have believed in passionately only to find out I was

wrong to support them. Richard says, once a traitor, always a traitor.

Another says, Byblos sorry when they get caught, not for what they did.

John says, great to hear the interview, thought provoking. There

are Americans who think he is a terrorist, they should revisit their

own history of funding the IRA for years. Keep those coming in, you can

e-mail us will send a message on Twitter. Time for the latest weather

now with Stav. You do not need me to tell you what

a lovely weekend it was, lots of sunshine around, so many weather

pictures as well, this is a glorious one from Dorset, clear blue skies,

people wearing their jackets on the beach. It did have a bit of a nip in

the air, the temperature, and I... But lots of sunshine around, high

pressure dominating. For the rest of the week, high pressure will be

dominating the scene, lots of dry weather to come, mainly dry, I

should say. A little light rain in the middle part of the week where

cloud is thick enough. The Knights will continue to be chillier. A huge

area of high pressure dominating across the North Sea, and you will

notice tightly packed ice bars in the South, a nagging easterly breeze

across southern areas, that was taking the edge off temperatures,

and we will see that throughout the week. Once the cloud burns away this

morning, nine, maybe 10 Celsius, lots of sunshine around. It is going

to feel fairly pleasant in the sun. The best of the temperatures,

western parts of Northern Ireland, northern and western Scotland,

shelter from the easterly breeze with all that sunshine continuing.

That is how it is looking into the evening, many places having a lovely

end to the day, but further west, with light winds, temperatures

falling away, and a low cloud and mist rolling in off the North Sea

towards eastern areas. Do not be surprised if you see temperatures

dipping below freezing into the Glens of Scotland as well. Closer to

the East Coast, colder. A chilly start to Tuesday, mist in the West

will burn away, a definite east and west split, central and eastern

areas holding onto the cloud. Parts of western Scotland could make 17

Celsius, watch that space, maybe 15 for Northern Ireland. Eastern

Scotland, low cloud, quite chilly and grey. Further west, western

Wales and the south-west of England, again, the best of the sunshine, so

feeling quite warm we have the sunshine. Certainly cooler across

eastern areas, where we hang on to the breeze and cloud. A spot of

light rain or drizzle through central and eastern parts, more

sunshine pushing in towards the south of the country, as well as the

north-west corner of the UK. Into the latter part of the week, high

pressure drifting northwards and westwards, allowing northerly winds

to move in from the north, bringing in slightly cooler air. It looks

like it will turn cooler towards the end of the week. But high pressure

still dominates, set to stay fine and dry. That is your forecast.

It's ten, I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.

In an exclusive interview a British man jailed in the US for supporting

the Taliban online tells us he was naive, and regrets his

My advocating support of the Taliban was to help establish an Islamic

Babar Ahmad also says so-called Islamic State are "alien"

to his heritage and beliefs - and talks for the first time

about his relationship with Labour's London mayoral

Watch the full interview throughout the programme this morning.

Turkish warplanes have hit Kurdish rebel targets in northern Iraq after

a car bomb exploded in the capital Ankara yesterday, killing 37 people.

We will talk to people in the capital this morning.

Chris Evans has apologised "unreservedly" after scenes

for the new Top Gear were filmed near the Cenotaph

tragedy of the Germanwings crash, we speak to the father of one of three

British people killed. He is calling for changes to mental health care

for pilots. Turkish warplanes have hit Kurdish

rebel targets in northern Iraq after a car bomb killed

37 in the capital They are blaming the PKK Kurdish

group for the attack. Babar Ahmad tells this programme he

was naive and regrets his actions. We will bring you more of the

interview through the programme. The party of German Chancellor

Angela Merkel has been defeated in two out of three states

in regional elections, in what's being seen as a sharp

rebuke to its policy of welcoming Chris Evans has apologised

"unreservedly" after scenes for the new Top Gear

were filmed near the Cenotaph It was seen as disrespectful

to the Armed Forces. In the last hour a joint European

and Russian rocket mission has A satellite will try and trace

the source of methane And now the sport. England were

crowned Six Nations champions and would not even on the pitch, the

hard work was done by Scotland to beat France for the first time in a

decade at Murrayfield which means England are Six Nations champions

with a game to spare. They have not won the title since 2011. England

will play France next weekend and victory would give them five out of

five victories. It is nice to win the championship. I think as a team

we feel we have not achieved what we want to achieve and that is the

grand slam. Dylan Hartley bumped into you. We did not know whether to

shake hands, or get on with business, so we shook hands, decided

what we would do tonight and the rest of week. Keeping the same group

of players they can win the tournament for many years because

they have quality and are well organised. Eddie Jones brings his

confidence. The English victory over Wales on Saturday was not without

controversy with England's Joe Marler apologising to Wales player

Samson Lee for allegedly calling him a Gypsy boy. Hey, Gypsy boy! As you

can hear, the words are pretty clear. We can speak to our rugby

reporter Chris Jones. What is the fallout likely to be? The Six

Nations authorities are investigating. It is unprecedented.

They are taking time to collate evidence. Joe Marler apologised to

Samson Lee at half-time and Samson Lee has spoken openly in the past

about his Romany heritage and the England coach Eddie Jones gave Joe

Marler a dressing down and reminded him of his responsibility as an

England player. The WRU said they were disappointed by the comment.

The Six Nations authorities might still act, it falls under a

regulation, verbal abuse of players based on religion, race, colour,

national or ethnic origin, sexual orientation or otherwise. The entry

point for this is four weeks and if Joe Marler is cited, and if he is

found guilty, he could be facing a ban and will miss the England game

against France in Paris. Thanks for joining us. We will give you the

latest when we have it. 14 time grand slam champion Rafael Nadal

said he will sue the former French government then as to who claimed

his absence from tennis in 2012 was probably due to a positive doping

test. Rafael Nadal claims he has let allegations go not challenged in the

past but the once minister for health and sport cannot be ignored.

It hurts, the comments from a person who should be serious because he was

a minister of the big country and great country like France. I will

sue her and I will sue everybody who comment something similar in the

future because I am tired of it. Strong words. It does not affect his

tennis, he is through to the third round at Indian Wells. I will have

the headlines at 10:30am. Now back to our main

story this morning. A British IT support worker jailed

over a website considered to be a key moment in the birth

of the internet jihad claims he was hooded by the

Metropolitan Police - Now back to our main

story this morning. Babar Ahmad pleaded guilty to two

counts of providing material support to terrorism and was sentenced

to twelve and a half The 41-year-old had fought a record

eight-year-long campaign Two articles posted

on a website he founded - urged Muslims to send money

and equipment to the Taliban, who at the time were harbouring

Osama Bin Laden and Although the offences

were committed in the UK - US authorities argued that

because the website was hosted on a US server it made its contents

subject to American law. In his first interview

since his release from a high security American prison eight

months ago Babar Ahmad tell us: He was naive to support the Taliban

and now regrets his actions. He alleges MI5 have tried

to recruit him several times He says he wants to stop young

Muslims being attracted And he calls run apology from the

Met police over his treatment. In the second part of the interview

he tells us about the time he spent time in a high security jail in the

US. I wonder, when you look back

at the websites now, do you acknowledge

that the Azzam websites were effectively the start

of cyber jihadism? The kind of images,

the kind of postings, have now been adopted

and are used in a very different way, perhaps even

in a much more gruesome and sophisticated way by groups

like so-called Islamic I don't think so because the Azzam

websites were predominantly focused on the conflicts happening

in Bosnia and Chechnya. Where foreign invading

armies had invaded a Muslim country and they

were killing civilians. What's happening today

is people are killing civilians and then they are filming

it and putting it on TV. It's like the complete

opposite of what the One of the tapes that your website

hosted and you narrated was called In The Heart Of The Green Birds,

and it had stories as you've just explained of battles in Bosnia

and people who were killed. Years later that tape was found

in possession of some And even now, there are quotes

from that cassette in social media posts from British men

fighting for so-called Islamic I think ultimately

I'll say what David He said the responsibility

of those who murder innocent people lies

with them themselves. I've heard this cassette,

some of the London bombers I've also heard that there

were articles from the BBC News website found on their

computers, for example. We don't know, we can't say exactly

what they reason was, But to say that someone hears a tape

about heroes who gave their lives protecting innocent

people in Bosnia and then they use that as a motivation to kill

innocent people on the streets of London, you need quite a lot

of mental gymnastics to get What would you say to young

British Muslim men and women, who like you did 20 years ago,

felt really angry about the way some Muslims were being treated

in parts of the world? It's not a crime to feel outraged

and injustice at what's happening. But ultimately we are

responsible for our actions. And it's important that before

people decide to take a course of action, before you translate your

outrage into action, think deeply and carefully

about what you are doing and don't Don't allow yourself to be

used by other people. Don't let other people bully

you that the only way to Paradise is by bringing misery

upon innocent people Make your own mind up,

be smart, be intelligent, do your research and

make your own mind up. And what if those young people

make their own mind up and think, actually,

I'm going to go and join Islamic Well, if that is what

they are going to do, as long as they understand the risks

they are taking to their own lives, they could end up in prison,

they could end up disabled, I've been in a war and I've been

on battlefields and no one should be under any illusion that

war is some kind of glorified thing that you see in a video with music

in the background and it's Before you decide to

put yourself into that situation where, OK,

if you are killed you might be lucky, you might lose your

eyesight, you might be disabled, you might be

caught and imprisoned Something might happen

to members of your family. Sometimes in people's eagerness

to want to do something they fail to understand the risks

of what they are actually getting themselves into, and I

think it's important Would you be emphatic

and say, "Don't go and join I would be emphatic in saying that

foreign complex and complicated. Or do not go and join a group

of people for whom there is no I would be really

emphatic in saying that. How would you describe

so-called Islamic From what I've heard,

getting people and journalists and cutting their heads

off on TV, I don't Jihad is something in Islamic

history and heritage and beliefs. It's a noble act that is meant

to protect and defend innocent When terror and misery

is brought to people under the label of jihad,

God knows what it is, but no God tolerates terror

and misery being brought to innocent people on behalf of

some sort of cause. Some people might see

what happened to you, held for eight years in the UK

without trial before being extradited to the States

as a reason to be outraged. The problem is not just outrage

and is not just people in the Muslim community that were outraged over

what happened to me. The problem is, what do

you do with that outrage? Yes, bad things happened to me,

but good things also And there was a balance

in the way that I was And I was mistreated

and I was treated very bad. But ultimately I received some

semblance of justice You spent eight years fighting

extradition to the United States. You argued that you should be

tried in a UK court. If you had been tried in Britain

instead of the States, would you have pleaded not guilty?

Absolutely. If I had been put on trial in this

country, as I was asking for eight years, I would have absolutely

pleaded not guilty, because at most

I was facing a sentence of about two years of which I would

do half if I was found guilty. During the supermax prison

in America for two years I lived through complete hell and those

two years were the darkest Every minute of every day,

from the moment you wake up to the moment you go

to sleep, was a struggle, was a battle, if you

can sleep, that is. I saw one suicide attempt

a week, three suicide Inmates who had gone crazy,

and they were just bang the doors and shout and scream

all day and all night. At that point I'd been in prison

nine and a half years without trial, I'm far away

from home in a foreign country and prosecutors come to me and said,

"Hey, plead guilty So, any person in their right mind

would just sign on the dotted line. I want to make it clear,

I'm not taking that back, it was the best decision of my life

and I'm proud I made that decision. But at that time I didn't care

what anyone thought of me. I just wanted to get

back to my family. And here I am, so I'm glad

I made the right decision. Talk to us about two years'

solitary confinement. Describe what that actually means

in practical terms first of all. It means you are in your cell for

23 to 24 hours a day by yourself. You are let out for an hour

in an underground concrete pit, where you can't see

into the distance. If something is bothering you,

you can't talk to anyone, you can't text anyone,

you can't shout at anyone. You just have to be alone

with your thoughts How I would talk to other inmates

is through the sink. I would get a toilet roll cardboard

insert and blow the water out from the sink and one person

listens and the other person speaks. For me to go to sleep,

it would take me five pairs of socks and an empty

shampoo bottle because of the noise. I would get the pairs of socks,

using the plastic spork, squeeze it in through

the gaps all over the door. And then there was a vent that

would blow air from the bottom, and if you balanced

the shampoo bottle at the right angle with some books,

it would generate a white noise, and your brain can

cut that out and it drowns out the banging

that is all around you. But then, three or four times

in the night you would wake up when shampoo bottle falls,

and the banging would wake you up. For two years I never

got a full night's sleep. I remember there was

an inmate next to me, Going past the cell,

there was so much blood in there, it was like

a butcher's shop. After I got back, I went

to the butcher's shop and straightaway it took me to that

memory of the blood in that cell. Even now when I go into a butcher's

shop, I can smell the blood. Those were very dark

days, I won't lie to you to somehow embellish it,

those were the darkest years of my life and during that

period I would have done absolutely anything to get out

of that place and to get home and I'm glad I made

the right decision and I'm home. What has that kind of experience

done to your mind? I've been getting help,

professional help. For? For trauma, treatment to basically

help me deal with six years in isolation, including two years

in solitary confinement. than I was when

I got home seven months ago. I've calmed down a lot,

I'm able to sleep better, I'm a bit less vigilant

of my surroundings, But I think it's made me

a stronger person. Do you have post-traumatic

stress disorder as a result of those experiences?

Yes. The trauma treatment has helped,

yes. I've been doing it for several

months now, and it has helped. Most of the PTSD was arising from

what the police did to me back in 2003, and being

in isolation for several years, including solitary confinement,

it actually aggravated that. But the treatment

has helped a great deal, yes. What are your thoughts

towards the US authorities now? I'm obviously not happy

about what they did to me. But I'm not angry or bitter

over what they did to me. I remember a line that

Nelson Mandela said when he walked towards the prison

gate when he was released. He said, "I knew that if

I did not leave my bitterness and hatred behind,

then I would still be in prison." but I've also released them,

if that makes sense. When you were extradited

to the States, you were hooded, I understand,

as you were led to the plane. When I got to the Royal Air Force

base, it was actually Metropolitan Police officers that

first applied a blacked-out ski mask and earmuffs to me before

I left the police van. "I'm sorry, mate, but we need

to put these on you." you know you are not allowed

to do this?" "Blindfolding is banned in Europe,

you're not allowed to do this." And he said, "I'm really sorry,

it's the Americans, and that's the way

they want it done The Metropolitan Police officers

were scared. And this was at

a Royal Air Force base So they put these blacked-out

ski mask goggles on me and these earmuffs and led me

with handcuffs to this building. And then thereafter

I was handed over to the Americans. And then the Americans

did the same, they blindfolded me and put earmuffs

on me and put me in full shackles before they led me

to the private jet and I stayed like that

for the first hour of the flight. When I landed, I think an hour

or two when I landed, they put me back in

blindfolds and earmuffs. Why did they do that?

I don't know. But after I complained

to the British Consulate in Boston, they contacted the Foreign Office,

and the Foreign Office contacted the United

States Government, I think the next person

who was extradited after me, Now you're back, I wonder

if you think you are being monitored by MI5?

I hope not. I think MI5 have a lot more things

on their plate than to be following me,

or monitoring me. and asked me if I'm interested

in working for them. I've told them I'm not a rat,

that's not who I am. Since I've been back, a few times.

How many times? They've called me, they haven't

been aggressive, they've been polite and courteous to me,

and they've asked me and they've respected my decision that I do not

wish to work for them, You said you wouldn't do it

because you are not a rat. What do you mean?

That's not who I am. I'm not a spy, an informant

who goes into communities and his things and tells

other people about it. Most people in the world

are not like that. The intelligence services

occupy a dark world, and I think it changes them

as people. Some of them become dark people

because of the work they do. I have no desire to be

part of that world. Many, many people

supported your wish, your desire to be tried

here in the UK. What did you think

of that level of support? I received over 10,000 letters

from members of the public who shared their lives with me

and gave me hope. calling for me to be put on trial

in this country. Because I had no choice

but to try and survive my ordeal. But every single one of them

had a choice. and they went out of their way

to support me - I'm touched by that. I didn't want to do it

as soon as I got back. The last six or seven months,

now I think I'm sort of ready to start talking

about my experience, I feel I have a message

that perhaps some people may want to hear and

some might benefit from. Thank you very much

for talking to us. Peter on Facebook, naive? No,

stupid. How could he not have been aware of the restrictions that the

Taliban is placed on ordinary Afghans. If he means what he is

saying, we all make mistakes, but you cannot blame people for doubting

him. Another tweet, yes, he was naive, but it was before 9/11, how

can he be guilty and of what? He helped the oppressed of Bosnia and

advocated full support in Chechnya. Why hasn't Britain acknowledged

that? Barber Ahmad is a hero, he gave his life to defend the innocent

people of Bosnia. Why give this man more exposure? He should be jailed.

From Paul, so much time devoted to a terrorist, so little time for our

Armed Forces, no bias by the BBC, then, shameful! This voice is much

needed in today's world, he has emerged unbitter, just what is

needed to build bridges between communities at this critical

juncture. And another one on Facebook, the treatment of Babar

Ahmad by British secure the forces is nothing sort of criminal, his

only crime was to be a Muslim during the war on terror, there must be

justice. You can watch the full one-hour class version of the

interview on the BBC News YouTube page.

We asked the Metropolitan Police for comment regarding Babar Ahmad's

allegation of hooding by one of their officers.

They told us, "No complaint regarding Mr Ahmad's treatment

during his extradition has been received by

We approached MI5 about Babar Ahmad's claim

that they tried to recruit him, but they had no comment to add.

Chris Evans has apologised "unreservedly" after scenes

for the new series of Top Gear were filmed near the Cenotaph

He's also said the footage will definitely not be shown

I think the images look terrible, so disrespectful. There are mitigating

circumstances, but absolutely, I unreservedly apologise. I saw the

images this morning, and I felt the same way as everybody else. Not a

good start of our Top Gear? Well, it has already started, but this is not

a good story, no. Will the footage be used on air? I am not responsible

for the film, but I will find out what is going on. That would and

will definitely not go on air, no question. That was a little bit

miffed. I didn't say that, I was away with my family all weekend. I

have seen the tweet this morning, I think it was more light-hearted. So

you would pull the plug? It is not my decision, but if it was, I would

say that particular scene should not be shown. I talked, before I went on

air, I heard about it on radio 4 this morning, then I looked at the

papers, and then I called Alex, the series producer, then Alex called

his superior, and then Matt called me as well. We are all mortified by

it, 100% should not be shown. So the message is an apology? Google

completely, unreservedly. Show host Matt LeBlanc

and a professional driver performed stunts near to the war

memorial in Whitehall, Top Gear says the filming took place

around 40 metres away, Marc Ashdown is here, what were they

doing? They have been filming for a while

and this was Matt LeBlanc, the co-host, by Cenotaph. They shot of

Whitehall. He and a rally driver were driving a 840 horsepower

Mustang. We are told they were performing doughnuts. That is where

you put the car, spinning round fast, loud, screeching tyres and

rubber marks all over the road, and it led to complaints, the most

serious articulated by a former British military commander who

accused them of disrespecting the Cenotaph and Britain's war dead. He

said it was a poor decision to use a war memorial for what he called a

boy racer stunt. Westminster Council gave permission to film, the

programme say, and these pictures do not show how close he was to the

Cenotaph. There were complaints yesterday. Matt LeBlanc filmed at St

Paul's Cathedral and gate-crashed the wedding. The BBC had 20

complaints yesterday before the pictures were on the front pages.

This is, of course, in Downing Street, and George Osborne took to

social media to complain about the noise, asking them to keep it down

because he was trying to work on the budget. The other complaint about

the Cenotaph is more serious and there are calls for an enquiry into

how filming got permission. Sarah treated us. We can talk to her. How

you? I am outraged and disgusted, as are many people. Even with Chris

Evans' apology? Absolutely. Matt LeBlanc should be apologising. He

should not be hiding behind Chris Evans, who in defence of himself, he

was away. Surely he should be able to rely on his co-presenter to do a

professional job and regarding the vicinity of the Cenotaph, the

Cenotaph is there. As I said, the Cenotaph is interwoven into the

fabric of our society and identity. As a United Kingdom and as an

American, one of the Allies, he should be aware. He should not need

to have it pointed out. I march at the Cenotaph, as do many people, in

November. I can tell you every day is Remembrance Day. I had the honour

of marching with the American families who had lost their loved

ones in different campaigns, and the respect they showed and eagerness to

do what is right, because they understood the importance of what

this is. The military, we are a family, and as a family, we are

disgusted. You have lost someone in Iraq. I lost my brother. Which makes

it clear why you are so passionate about this this morning. Yes. One

could argue I am almost too close to the situation to see it clearly. But

taking my brother aside, the Cenotaph, as I said, the very

fabric, the history. One of the things that makes us great about

being British, it is the help we have given other countries and our

belief in supporting and fighting for our country and it says on the

side of the Cenotaph, they died serving their country. Just as a

member of the public eye and disgusted. Thanks for coming on the

programme. More messages -- as a member of the public I am disgusted.

One said he was looking forward to the new Top Gear but if this is an

indication of what is to come I will not be watching. Another says, this

is disrespected to veterans. And another said typical celebrity

enlarged egos, why do we continue to tolerate this? Thanks.

Coming up in the last half hour of the programme.

More of the interview with a man who once

supported the Taliban and was jailed in the US.

And after the tragedy of the Germanwings flight

that was deliberately crashed last year -

we'll be speaking to the father of one of three British people killed.

He's calling for changes to mental health care for pilots.

Turkey's president vows to bring terrorism to its knees after 37

people died in an attack in the capital Ankara. 70 people are being

treated in hospital after the explosion yesterday. A car packed

with explosives targeted people waiting at a bus stop. It is the

third attack in the space of five months. This man saw what happened.

TRANSLATION: It came next to us, a second past and there was a woman

behind us and her seat catapulted. Something hit my forehead. A car

exploded. The car, I think, was black. Five, six people on the bus

died, I saw it. I ran away as fast as I could. Something hit my

forehead and shoulder. I don't remember anything else. Turkish jets

have been bombing rebels in northern Iraq and questions are asked about

Turkey's ability to maintain security at a time when Europe needs

Turkey's help to stem the flow of migrants passing through its

borders. We can speak to a reporter from BBC Turkish. The third attack

in Ankara. Is there a sense the authorities cannot stop this? For

the past five months, three attacks in Ankara only and after each, we

hear the president saying things like you said yesterday, bringing

terror as -- terrorism to its knees. Yesterday's attack was so gruesome,

directed towards the civilian population and it was an area packed

with civilians trying to get back to their homes. It happened in the

capital of the country and powerhouse of the government. It is

creating a sense of insecurity. Thanks.

Babar Ahmad, the former IT worker from London who was jailed in the US

for supporting the Taliban online, tells this programme exclusively

that he was naive and regrets his actions.

We'll bring you the final part of that interview next.

In the last hour a joint European and Russian rocket mission has

A satellite will try and trace the source of methane gas

And now the sport. Good morning. The headlines. Scotland beat France for

the first time in a decade, winning 29-18 at Murrayfield. The Scots came

back from a try against them to secure their first back-to-back Six

Nations wins in three years. England's Joe Marler apologised to

Wales' Samson Lee for calling him a Gypsy boy in the match. Officials

are aware of the incident and are establishing the facts, they say.

Grand slam champion Rafael Nadal said he will sue a former French

minister for claiming his lay-off in 2012 was probably due to a positive

doping test. The Spaniard won through to the third round of Indian

Wells last night. FA Cup holders Arsenal have been knocked out of the

competition by Watford, losing 2-1 at the emirates and what a goal that

was. The first time Watford have beaten Arsenal since 1988.

This morning, we've been bringing you an exclusive interview

with a Babar Ahmad, a 41-year-old British IT support

worker who was jailed in the United States

because a website he founded posted two articles in 2001,

encouraging people to raise cash, recruit fighters

and send equipment to the Taliban - at a time when they were harbouring

Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

Babar Ahmad fought a record eight-year battle

against extradition from the UK to the US.

His campaign was supported by his local MP Sadiq Khan,

who is now Labour's London mayoral candidate.

Sadiq Khan's support of Babar Ahmad has been criticised by some,

and Babar Ahmad has never commented on it before.

At his sister's home, he wanted to show us a mosque

he'd built from 25,000 matches whilst inside Long Lartin Prison

fighting against extradition to the States.

I guess out of those 11 years in prison this is worth one

--where one year and four months of it went.

It was all glued together and sanded by hand.

These grooves here, I got a pencil and put sandpaper around it

How many hours a day would you spend on this?

Sometimes maybe six or seven hours a day, sometimes two hours a day.

I was also busy with fighting my case.

When you look at this now, now you are back home and you're

free, what occurs to you in your mind?

It's memories of something that was, but happily that memory had a good

Tell us what what you claim happened in 2003.

It was early in the morning, the house was raided by about 15,

I stood up with my hands up, didn't offer any resistance.

They grabbed me and put me on the floor.

They put me in handcuffs, and then they just

proceeded to punch me all over my body.

They punched me all over my head, my ears, my back, my kidneys.

One of them put his hands through my legs and grabbed my

Then they took me downstairs to a room where we pray

and they put me in a prostration position and started making comments

about, are we allowed to wear our shoes in here?

Then they took me in the van to the police station

and one of the officers struck me, he punched me on my back

on my kidney area about ten or 12 times.

This officer put me in this chokehold and he just held

So I was down on my front and my hands were in cuffs.

He just held it there and then he let go, and then he did it again,

He held on and held on and held on, and I just felt that

this guy is going to kill me, I can't even say the Islamic

declaration of faith before I die and this situation is serious,

this guy is going to kill me here on the

Ultimately he let go and he said, "You will remember

this day for the rest of your life, you effing B."

You received ?60,000 in compensation from the Met,

and the then met boss Sir Paul Stephenson said

you were subjected to "serious, gratuitous, prolonged,

The jury later cleared four officers.

The police argued that your injuries were self-inflicted,

and ultimately the officers were found not guilty.

Some members of the jury afterwards asked

That was, I have to say, quite disheartening for them to go

I did lose some faith in humanity when that happened.

Do you want an apology from the police

over your alleged treatment, including your claim that

The hooding, I just want an acknowledgement.

The police and security services have an

But when they get things wrong they should have

After my experience, after what I've been

The Metropolitan Police gave us this statement.

"Allegations of mistreatment were investigated and

subsequently in 2011 four officers were found not guilty of assault

When evidence that was not available during the civil

proceedings was produced the officers were also found to have

no case to answer with regards to misconduct allegations.

During the years that you were fighting

extradition, your constituency MP, Labour's Sadiq Khan,

who is running for Mayor of London, called for you to be tried

in the UK, as did many politicians from other parties.

How much support have you had from him?

Sadiq Khan gave the same level of support to me that Zac Goldsmith

and Boris Johnson said, which was basically that

as a British citizen accused of crimes committed in this country

Sadiq Khan visited you in Woodhill prison in Milton Keynes in 2005-06.

The conversations were monitored, bugged, was he visiting

you as a friend or a constituency MP?

He was visiting me as a constituency MP.

My family and lots of people here in Tooting told him to come

and visit me and he just came to visit

In my community anyone who is not your

enemy is a friend, so in that sense he is a friend.

But I've never socialised with him, I've never gone

out to eat with him, or gone tenpin bowling with him.

He's probably an acquaintance more than a friend,

How close were you before your arrest in 2003?

I remember every Saturday he used to be standing at a stall

for the Labour Party on Tooting High Street.

If I would see him I would go to him and shake his hand.

He's just someone that I knew that I would see

In an interview in the last few days Sadiq

Khan said about you, "We weren't close friends

Both of us are well known in Tooting for different

Sadiq Khan, everyone in Tooting knows him.

Have you met him since you arrived back

in Britain in the last few months from jail in the States?

Yes, I was travelling home on the Tube

one night with my lawyer and just bumped into him

Another time there was a funeral of someone in the community.

I didn't really speak to him because he was helping

How did he react when you saw him on the Tube?

Nothing. He was polite and courteous as always.

I was with my lawyer, and he met my lawyer as well.

And then he got off, his stop came, and he got off at the next stop.

Let me read you some comments, I love your programme absolutely, but

I do not understand why you give publicity and valued time to people

like Babar Ahmad. This tweet, eight years without trial or charge, that

is British justice? It makes a mockery of British democracy. From

Mo, incredible interview, nine years in prison, two years in solitary

confinement. A convicted terrorist is pulling the wool over the liberal

media's eyes. You can watch the full

one-hour plus version of this interview

on BBC News' YouTube page. A spokesperson for Mayor of London

candidate Sadiq Khan told us, in his role as chair

of the human-rights group Liberty, Sadiq Khan campaigned

against the unfair UK-US extradition treaty and for Babar Ahmad

to be tried in the UK. This was a campaign supported

by MPs from all parties, including Boris Johnson

and Zac Goldsmith. The Government has unveiled plans

for a new scheme to encourage low-paid workers to save,

after it emerged that almost half of UK adults had less than ?500

set aside for emergencies. Let's get more on this

from our political correspondent Eleanor Garnier, who is in

Westminster for us now. Who is this aimed at? This is how it

works, if you can save up to ?50 a month, then the Government will, in

what is being called a help to save scheme, the Government will give you

a 50% bonus, ?600 cash at the two years. That will mean that other two

years of saving you will get ?600 cash. If you can save for another

two years, you will get another ?600 top-up, so after eight o'clock four

years of saving, you could end up with ?1200 completely tax-free in

this Government scheme. And who is it specifically aimed at? That is

the catch, I think. It is aimed at those on universal credit, but also

those who get their incomes topped up by working tax credits. Some

people are saying it is going to be very difficult for people on low

incomes to save up this kind of money. The other thing to point out

is that the amount of money, the part the Government has saved up for

this, clearly shows the Government acknowledges how difficult it is

going to be for people to save, because they are not expecting a

100% take-up of the scheme. David Cameron's focus on helping those on

low incomes to save is part of what he wants to be remembered for, what

he wants his premiership to be remembered for. Remember, he talked

about that all-out assault on poverty back in his conference

speech last year, and the other thing to point out is that this is a

little bit of voter friendly news, a little bit of good news, if you

like, ahead of what the Chancellor is billing as a very difficult

Budget on Wednesday. He is also pencilling more cuts and savings to

come. Thank you very much. Chris Evans has apologised for using the

Cenotaph as a backdrop in a new series of Top Gear and has promised

the footage will not be shown. He was talking on his radio to

breakfast programme this morning. What is important is what these

images look like, and they look entirely disrespectful. Of course,

that would never be the intention of the Top Gear team or Matt. These

pictures were taken with a long lens camera from Parliament Square, but

the point is that it does not look good. This message from Jeremy, I do

not quite get the Top Gear farce, they are doing stunts and the

Cenotaph is visible in the background. They are hardly urine

aiding on it. A couple more as well, these are tweeds and messages on

Facebook, Raggi says Chris Evans is just pretending to apologise, trying

to push the new programme. So what if they filmed at Whitehall? Big

deal. The NIMBYs should shut up. Bill says it is a storm in a teacup.

We did readouts are messages from people who were offended and a young

woman who lost her brother in Iraq, and she said she was outraged. -- we

did read out. The father of one of three British

people killed when Germanwings Flight 4U9525 was deliberately

crashed into a mountain in the French Alps has

told this programme that unless changes are made to mental

health care for pilots, another Germanwings style

crash could happen. Phil Bramley's son Paul

was 28-years-old Now French investigators have called

for medical confidentiality who also wants regular psychiatric

tests for those flying planes. Mr Bramley, thank you for talking to

us again, have you had time to absorb this report? Yes, we got the

report... We were supposed to get it on Saturday, we did not get it until

Sunday, and the first I heard of it and was able to comment was when the

press were at the door, so I had not seen it at that point. Having read

it yesterday, you have got to understand that everybody has got to

understand that this is the authorities, the French authorities

putting the facts forward. They are not making any accusations, just

presenting people with the facts. It is the judicial review that will

apportion blame all get to the people responsible to be held to

account. So blaming doctors straight off, it is not the doctors who put

the aircraft into the mountain, that was the pilot. I am more concerned

of the way that the pilots are treated and, you know, something is

done more to prevent and check on pilots to make sure that they are

responsible. There is a few things I want to say. It is a bit difficult

to fully explain in this situation, especially after what has happened,

but one of the major points that we want to get across is the pressure

that pilots are under. They go and take these... They are put into a

situation of... To get their licence it can cost up to ?90,000, and they

are loaned this money, and with prohibitive contracts that if they

do not perform or something happens to them, they are not only looking

at losing their job, they will probably be bankrupt, having to pay

it back. I am concerned whether that is being underwritten by any of the

relatives, and I am concerned whether the family of Andreas Tobo

did not want to come forward and assist the French authorities in

getting the facts. -- Andreas Lubitz. Sorry, I am probably going

on a bit. Not at all. What we know from this report now is that Lubitz

was referred for psychiatric hospital treatment due to possible

psychosis by several doctors, and in the weeks leading up to the Cratchit

had been given sick note by four doctors. -- the crash he had been

given. The French authorities are calling for regular screening, is

that enough for you? We test our athletes more than we test pilots,

and I think they should be tested, and they would probably welcome

that. It would assist. It seems strange now that one year after,

because it is the memorial next week, that one year after they were

going to hospitalise him in two weeks, and it is taking the high off

the ball of what has gone on with what happens with pilots. Do you

think there is a balance to be struck between an individual's

private medical care, confidentiality, and the safety of

people, passengers on planes? Or should doctors, if they have

information, passage to the airline? I think they should have to sign a

declaration that they allow their medical at the beginning, so they

are well aware, that they should give that information freely, or the

doctors should give it freely to certain people who are in positions

where it is of importance for public safety. Yeah. I mean, the

investigation does say that that confidentiality has to be

balanced... Surely they can waver that at the beginning, if you are a

doctor or a pilot, that you can waive certain types, if you are on

medication, if something happens, in a particular job, then it should be

passed to the company. I don't quite understand, you know, that the

airline can get behind this and say, well, we did not know about it. I

would like to know why his parents, his friends, relatives around him

were not aware of... You know, this is not, you know, I feel a bit

suicidal, this is 41 times. He had been suspended by the airline back

in 2009, and they were well aware of it when he was taking all his tests

and... To fly. And they have let him back in the cockpit. How can that be

right? To hide behind the doctors, I am more concerned about the airline

and what they should do to prevent this happening. That is... It is...

It is almost a year since you lost your son, how are you doing, Phil?

Not the best. This is a whole new world of pain that we are going

through now. With what has happened with, you know, my stroke, yeah. I

am grateful for your time this morning. Thank you very much for

speaking to us. OK, they give very much, bye-bye.

As you know, Chris Evans has apologised for filming some scenes

in front of the Cenotaph in central London in recent days for the new

Top Gear series. He has apologised and reserve and Lee. He says that

they will not be shown in the new series. This e-mail from Tom, it

appears that people are blowing the Top Gear filming out of all

proportion. The fact that George Osborne and shows that they were

probably just as close to Downing Street as the Cenotaph. I think the

footage should be shown so that people can make up their own minds,

because if we do not see it, Matt LeBlanc and the show will be given a

bad name. This is from Miranda, we can all blame the programme for

doing the stance, but I find it strange that nobody but any blame on

the authorities who gave permission. Keith, come on, guys, this is just

Chris Evans trying to drum up interest by looking edgy, it is

truly desperate. And this e-mail from Edward, Top Gear doing stunts

on public roads? Why? They always had their private test track, no

reason to be on public roads. Thank you very much for your company

today. So many messages today about the interview with Babar Ahmad, you

can watch the full one-hour version on the BBC News YouTube page. You

can watch it on our programme page as well on the BBC website. Plus,

there will be a half hour special of the interview at 9:30 on BBC News

tonight. I am back tomorrow, where we will be looking at how the cost

of childcare for one and two -year-olds could be about to soar.

If that is you, if you have got a one two -year-old, perhaps even

younger, make sure you tune in tomorrow. Your message really help

to inform our programme, you can contact me any time of day or night.

I might not reply in the middle of the night, but I will of Ikan! Thank

you very much for your company today, back tomorrow at 9:15. -- I

will if I can! You and I, we're going to change

this country. You run and, hopefully,

win elected office. Not just for the sake of being

something