Browse content similar to 12/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello it's Thursday, it's nine o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling, | :00:08. | :00:09. | |
in for Victoria, welcome to the programme | :00:10. | :00:11. | |
Our top story today - The BBC's future should | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
become clearer today, when the culture secretary reveals | :00:16. | :00:16. | |
The licence fee will continue, and the Trust which governs | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
What's it all mean for you, the viewers and listeners? | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
We'll hear from lovers and haters of the BBC. | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
Also coming up on Thursday's programme, a man who admitted | :00:33. | :00:34. | |
uploading pictures of his sister and other women onto porn websites, | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
causing them humiliation and distress, got a police caution. | :00:38. | :00:39. | |
His victims have told us they don't think that's enough. | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
It's not as if they were just put on a porn website, just photos, | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
it was what he'd written that was more disturbing | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
than anything, I mean, having a person walk free and be | :00:52. | :00:53. | |
able to get on with their life, and maybe meet someone one day, | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
and them know absolutely nothing about it, that's just scary really. | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
They said, you know, it's OK, because he's deleted the pictures | :01:03. | :01:09. | |
of you off his phone in front of us, so it's OK, and I was like, | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
well, it's not OK, that's not OK that they've just been deleted, | :01:14. | :01:15. | |
We will have that full story for you at a quarter to ten. | :01:16. | :01:24. | |
And a little later, how much should we worry about | :01:25. | :01:26. | |
The Prime Minister thinks we should and is hosting a conference of more | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
One of them is Afghanistan, described by David Cameron | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
Hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning. | :01:37. | :01:50. | |
We already getting lots of comments from you about our top story today, | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
the future of the BBC. Matt on Facebook says it is time for the | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
licence fee to go. The lavish BBC spending of our money must be | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
curbed, but is funny to see that the BBC will be given the power for | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
those who watch catch-up TV to pay Manny now. And a man on Twitter says | :02:10. | :02:16. | |
the Conservatives seem to hate the two things that the British public | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
admirer, the BBC and the NHS. we're talking about this morning - | :02:20. | :02:21. | |
use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and If you text, | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
you will be charged at the standard How the BBC is governed, | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
the length of the licence fee and more information | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
about what its top stars earn will all be set out in a government | :02:35. | :02:36. | |
announcement on the corporation's But it looks like controversial | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
ideas, like restricting when the BBC should show some of its most popular | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
programmes, have been shelved. Here's our Media Correspondent, | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
David Sillito. The BBC is, for most of us, | :02:48. | :02:49. | |
part of daily life, but its charter only lasts for ten years at a time, | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
giving the government a chance to look at how it's run, | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
how it's funded, and, What I would like to happen is for | :02:57. | :02:58. | |
something to be bold and radical, I would like to see the licence fee | :02:59. | :03:08. | |
scrapped, I think it has been holding back the BBC, | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
it has been overtaken by Sky, and one day the BBC will realise | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
it is actually holding them back. Radio, TV and online | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
was all under review. The results are the licence fee | :03:22. | :03:23. | |
stays for the next 11 years, but the Trust that governs | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
the BBC will be replaced. If you want to complain | :03:31. | :03:32. | |
about the BBC in future, the final referee will be | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
the independent regulator, Stars' salaries will be made public, | :03:36. | :03:37. | |
but not the exact amount, all we will know is that it's more | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
than ?450,000, and there will be a new board running | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
the BBC day-to-day. The debate here is who will be on | :03:46. | :03:54. | |
it. At least half will be from the BBC, | :03:55. | :03:57. | |
but questions have been raised If we are going to have a Board | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
of Directors, which again is a good idea, the real essential is that | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
that Board of Directors It should not be appointed | :04:06. | :04:07. | |
by the government, it should be appointed by an independent | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
commission, and they should That is what would give | :04:12. | :04:13. | |
them their authority. However, suggestions | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
that the government would intervene over when the BBC could show | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
its most popular programmes, or hand licence fee money to other | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
broadcasters, have not made it Plenty more on that story at 9.15 - | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
but right now, Annita is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary | :04:27. | :04:37. | |
of the rest of the day's news. For the first time, foreign | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
companies that already have, or want to buy, property in the UK | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
will have to reveal That's just one of the measures | :04:44. | :04:45. | |
being announced by David Cameron today at an international | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
conference to fight global It's billed as the first | :04:52. | :04:52. | |
of its kind, and it's already caused controversy before it's started, | :04:53. | :05:00. | |
with the Prime Minister describing Nigeria and Afghanistan | :05:01. | :05:02. | |
as "fantastically corrupt". David Cameron has already ensured | :05:03. | :05:18. | |
his anti-corruption summit has grabbed the headlines, after his | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
unguarded remarks about some of those attending. | :05:23. | :05:31. | |
Today, he will try to gloss over that embarrassment, starting with a | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
new announcement on stopping UK property being bought with dirty | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
money. He is expected to announce that no foreign companies will be | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
able to purchase property here, unless it's clear who is the overall | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
tone of the enterprise. Crucially, though, Mr Cameron hasn't yet been | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
able to persuade the UK linked tax havens, such as the Cayman islands | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
and the British Virgin Islands, to embrace the same spirit of | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
transparency, and campaigners rather wish he would fix that problem | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
before he lectures others. There are some countries in the world that are | :06:11. | :06:12. | |
fantastically corrupt, there were also places like the overseas | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
territories, which have been fantastically obliging to the | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
corrupt from those countries. So as long as we are focusing on both | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
sides of that coin, then we have a chance of getting a really important | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
result from this summit. Last month's release of the Panama Papers | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
revealed just how many anonymous shell companies are used by the | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
world's elite to hide away wealth from public view, so David Cameron | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
may get some credit for calling this summit in the first place, but the | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
question remains can he put the UK's own treasure islands in order too? | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
And we'll be discussing this issue later in the programme with a legal | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
David Cameron will NOT take part in any EU referendum TV debates | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
with Boris Johnson or other fellow Conservatives, | :07:00. | :07:00. | |
Number 10 say they do not want the campaign to turn into merely | :07:01. | :07:09. | |
Meanwhile, Vote Leave - the official out campaign - | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
has accused ITV of taking sides in the referendum battle | :07:13. | :07:15. | |
after the broadcaster excluded them from a major TV debate and instead | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
invited Nigel Farage to represent those who want to leave the EU. | :07:19. | :07:28. | |
Norman Smith in Westminster, that late-night e-mail from vote leave | :07:29. | :07:35. | |
has provoked quite the row this morning. It has prompted an | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
explosive row, not just between the Leave campaign and ITV, but within | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
the Brexit campaign. With claims by Nigel Farage, who has been invited | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
to take part in that critical ITV debate, but the official leave aside | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
her try to stop him going on that show and threatening legal action. | :07:57. | :08:09. | |
Never mind the warning that if the official representatives of the | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
Leave campaign, Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, were not allowed to | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
take part that would be consequences for ITV, unidentified consequences, | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
that it has exposed I think two things. One is the real Gulf | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
rippling through the Leave side, but secondly, the concerns the official | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
campaign have about the sort of impact Nigel Farage would have. | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
Their fear that if he is allowed to present himself as the main face of | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
the Brexit campaign, it will alienate many voters. Secondly, | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
another huge row are erupting over David Cameron's decision not to take | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
part or not to debate against Boris Johnson. Mr Johnson's friends saying | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
this morning, look, he stands ready to debate against David Cameron. It | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
is not up to David Cameron to decide who he will choose to debate | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
against. Boris Johnson is one of the leading figures of the official | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
Leave campaign, he should be prepared to debate against him. | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
A British man has been arrested on suspicion of killing his | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
wife and mother-in-law, after they were found dead | :09:12. | :09:12. | |
Dave McCann, who's 49, allegedly stabbed his wife | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
and her mother to death, before threatening his sister-in-law. | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
It's believed that he forced his way into the family home on Saturday - | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
before going into hiding for four days at a homeless | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
Two pieces of debris found on beaches in Mauritius | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
and South Africa almost certainly came from the Malaysia Airlines | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
flight MH370, according to officials in Malaysia. | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
It's the latest development in efforts to solve the mystery | :09:39. | :09:40. | |
of the aircraft, which went missing in March 2014. | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
The plane was flying from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, | :09:44. | :09:45. | |
and had 239 people on board, when it vanished. | :09:46. | :10:01. | |
A new report says girls born this year will be 75 per cent more likely | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
to study for a degree than their male classmates - | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
unless action is taken to address the growing university gender gap. | :10:08. | :10:09. | |
The study - from the Higher Education Policy Institute - | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
also says white boys from poorer backgrounds are drastically | :10:13. | :10:14. | |
Here's our Education Correspondent Robert Piggott. | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
A lower proportion of students entering universities and colleges | :10:18. | :10:19. | |
This year, almost 100,000 fewer men than women applied for places, | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
and eight out of ten higher education institutions now | :10:26. | :10:27. | |
Girls are already 35% more likely to go to university than boys, | :10:28. | :10:36. | |
but if the current trend continues unabated, that will rise to 75%. | :10:37. | :10:56. | |
A failure to tackle the gap would undermine attempts | :10:57. | :10:58. | |
Disadvantaged white boys have the worst record. | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
Fewer than nine in a hundred go to university. | :11:02. | :11:03. | |
The report said the education system was letting boys down, | :11:04. | :11:05. | |
and suggested targeting them with recruitment campaigns, showing | :11:06. | :11:07. | |
It is said one reason for the gender difference could be that careers | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
traditionally chosen by women, such as nursing and teaching, | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
increasingly demand full degrees, but across most of the developed | :11:17. | :11:18. | |
world, recent trends in higher education have left male | :11:19. | :11:20. | |
The universities minister, Jo Johnson, said recent guidance | :11:21. | :11:29. | |
to universities called for special help for white boys | :11:30. | :11:31. | |
The Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump appears | :11:32. | :11:42. | |
to have softened his stance on his proposal for a temporary ban | :11:43. | :11:44. | |
During his campaign, Mr Trump had said the | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
But in an interview with Fox News, Mr Trump claimed it was | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
The proposed ban has been widely criticised in the US and abroad. | :11:55. | :12:09. | |
A 23-year-old man has been charged with the murder of a soldier in | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
Brecon, in mid Wales. Private Matthew Boyd from the Royal | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
Gibraltar Regiment disappeared after leaving a pub, and was found | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
unconscious early on Sunday morning. He died later in hospital. A | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
22-year-old man has also been charged with affray. | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
A company that sent a temp home from work for refusing to wear high | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
heels, has changed its policy, making it clear flat | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
Nicola Thorp was told she had to wear heels of between two | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
and four inches for a job as a receptionist in London. | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
More than 60,000 people have signed a petition in protest. | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
A car has fallen into a large hole in South East London. | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
No-one was inside the people carrier when it was discovered by police | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
The road has since been closed and Greenwich | :12:51. | :12:57. | |
council says it is urgently investigating the matter. | :12:58. | :12:59. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30. | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
We are going to be talking about the BBC, how it is run, the licence fee, | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
star pay. That is no what you think about that. We have a discussion | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
coming up after the sport. use the hashtag #victorialive | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
and If you text, you will be charged Let's catch up with the sport with | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
Huw. Things have been decided, Sunderland | :13:21. | :13:32. | |
staying up but Newcastle go down. The Sunderland boss Sam Allardyce is | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
calling on the club to forget the dark days of their relegation | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
struggles, after guaranteeing their Premiership survival with a 3-0 win | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
last night. When you are fighting survival, this is how you want to | :13:48. | :13:49. | |
finish, the Allardyce said his squad had come | :13:50. | :14:00. | |
through the tough times stronger and stronger. For the rest of the lads | :14:01. | :14:08. | |
and the families, it is a terrific effort by us all. It has paid off in | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
the end. All of the hard work we have put in, not just me as a | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
manager but all the backroom staff, we have put everything together, it | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
has finally paid off. In the end everything has turned out nice and | :14:22. | :14:22. | |
Rosie, as they say. Well, that win for Big Sam's men | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
meant Norwich were relegated, despite their win last night - | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
as were Newcastle United. Norwich go straight back down | :14:31. | :14:32. | |
but for Newcastle there are much bigger questions - | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
manager Rafael Benitez will now have the option to leave the club, | :14:36. | :14:37. | |
and after they spent ?80 million in the January | :14:38. | :14:39. | |
transfer window alone, Well, Mark Douglas joins us now - | :14:40. | :14:41. | |
he's the Newcastle United editor for the Chronicle and Journal | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
newspapers in the city. A difficult time, a great result for | :14:46. | :14:56. | |
Newcastle but what makes the Newcastle? Yes, I think the problem | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
for Newcastle is there are so many unanswered questions. We have said | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
all season that this looked likely. The best they have been all season | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
is 11th, they spent most of their season in the bottom three but we | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
have never really had a clear sense that the board really knew the | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
severity of the situation they found themselves in. Just two to three | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
months ago there was a fans forum, in which they said they were still | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
confident of staying up. They still had Steve McClaren as manager. They | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
subsequently went out and got Rafa Benitez. There was an improvement, | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
but it was too little, too late. For Newcastle United, the last three | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
years they have been taking the wrong decisions. It would be great | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
if Rafa Benitez stayed at Newcastle, especially for their fans. Do you | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
think he will, and if not, who is next? The problem with Rafa Benitez | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
staying at Newcastle United is that he will want to turn Newcastle | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
United into a force in the Premier League, which is what we were | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
hearing two to three months ago. The next question he would ask of the | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
board is how do we kick on from here and get into the Champions League? | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
It is not easy to do that when you are in the division below, the | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
Division 1 would have thought Rafa Benitez would never have thought of | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
himself managing in. But there is a little bit of hope, in that he has | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
certainly been won over by the easy as towards him by Newcastle fans. I | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
do think there is a glimmer of hope there, but he will want massive | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
assurances of money and being able to turn the club around the way he | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
wants. Because at the moment there is a lot of competing people at | :16:29. | :16:30. | |
Newcastle. How much response ability will Mike | :16:31. | :16:44. | |
Ashley taken this situation? It is on his head. He said we will make | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
our own luck, we are going to sort things out, we have sorted this out | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
financially but now we have to do it on the pitch, he has put people into | :16:55. | :17:12. | |
positions of authority, like Lee Charnley, we were ninth when he was | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
brought in, and we are now relegated. But it comes back to Mike | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
Ashley, he has taken the wrong decisions, he has turned the club | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
into a situation where it feels antagonistic towards its own fans, | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
to the media, to its own players, we have seen the Gutierrez tribunal | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
result as well. It has got to be Mike Ashley who has got to take the | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
blame. Hopefully, if Rafa Benitez can stay, there might be some | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
optimism. But it feels a long way away at the moment. Thanks very much | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
for joining us. That is all the sport for now. | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
What do you want from the BBC and how should it be run? | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
Well, later this morning the Government will reveal how | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
it thinks a future BBC should look and be run. | :18:00. | :18:01. | |
One thing that's being suggested is that any stars earning more | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
than 450,000 should be named and their salaries made public. | :18:05. | :18:06. | |
This could include people like Gary Lineker and Graham Norton. | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
The Culture Secretary John Whittingdale is also expected | :18:10. | :18:11. | |
to announce plans to abolish the BBC Trust, the people who govern | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
the BBC, and replace it with a new board. | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
The proposals are also expected to say the licence fee will continue | :18:21. | :18:22. | |
for at least another 11 years, and in future, only those who pay | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
the licence fee will be able to use the BBC iPlayer. | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
Let's talk now to Baroness Tessa Jowell, Labour's Culture Secretary | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
Here in the studio, Peter Bone, Conservative MP, Gail Renard, | :18:35. | :18:42. | |
Chair of the Writers Guild of Great Britain, Roger Laughton, | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
who is a former senior BBC and ITV executive, | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
Pamela Chabba, a retired teacher who feels the BBC | :18:50. | :18:57. | |
We are also joined by Ryan Bourne, who has argued the BBC is not fit | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
for purpose and should be privatised, commercially. | :19:03. | :19:09. | |
David Sillitoe is also here. David, first, outline what we are | :19:10. | :19:20. | |
expecting. There has been so much talk about what might be in it, but | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
a lot of what was anticipated, it looks like it is not going to be | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
correct? I've had phone calls for several nights, saying, is this | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
true, the BBC will be told it cannot run Strictly Come Dancing on a | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
Saturday night, that we will see the pay of every star paid more than | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
?150,000, that there are going to be all sorts of these things, top | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
slicing, will money be handed a way to fund other broadcasters, | :19:50. | :19:51. | |
children's television? None But the things people expected will | :19:52. | :20:04. | |
happen, the Trust will be abolished, if you complain and do not think the | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
BBC is accurate, the final referee will be the government 's | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
independent regulator, Ofcom. A new regulatory board will meet the | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
day-to-day running of the BBC will be run by a new board of directors, | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
headed by the chairman of the BBC, the director-general, the key issue | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
is how many of those directors will be appointed by the government. We | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
have been told in the White Paper that the staff will be BBC | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
appointments, I'm sure that'll be an area of and discussion. White Paper, | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
explained that isn't when this will happen. White Paper is the | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
governments proposals for their final negotiations the charter. It | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
is all signed in the autumn sometime, at the Privy Council. An | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
arcane institution. Not the House of Commons or the House of Lords. | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
Certainly a debate, they don't get a vote on it in Parliament. | :21:01. | :21:03. | |
Essentially a debate between government and the BBC. This is a | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
position document, this is what the government thinks should happen to | :21:10. | :21:16. | |
the BBC. Lets it open to the panel. First to you, Tessa Jowell, you'll | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
have had experience of being involved in these type of | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
discussions, what are you expecting and hoping for, from today and what | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
do you think about what you have heard? David Sillito has outlined | :21:27. | :21:37. | |
well what is likely to be in the paper. When we look at the fine | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
detail, reassurance or apprehension will be in the fine detail. I think | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
there are three tests that these proposals have to meet. One of them | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
is, will the BBC really be independent? I have grave misgivings | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
about the establishment of the unitary board to run the BBC, with a | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
substantial number of people appointed by it government. The | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
difference with the BBC trust was that the trust was established | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
expressly to represent the interests of the licence fee payer. That is | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
the first issue. On that, in terms of numbers, if it was half of the | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
work would that be acceptable, you feel there should be no them and | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
appointments -- if it was half, or fewer. I think it depends less on | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
the numbers and more on the job that the nonexecutive directors intends | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
to do. I hope that it will be made absolutely clear that the | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
nonexecutive directors on this board will be, if you like, guardians of | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
the licence fee payers interests. The risk is that all that happens is | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
that we recreate the BBC governors, which became discredited by the | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
extent to which their principal and primary loyalty was to the BBC | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
rather than to the public will finance the BBC. So safeguarding | :23:09. | :23:15. | |
independence, critical capacity, it is the licence fee payer being well | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
served? That should be the job of the independent directors on this | :23:20. | :23:26. | |
proposed new board. Before you come to the second issue let's talk about | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
the board first with everyone. There are lots of issues to get around. | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
Bill Cash? First, I think these reforms are well overdue. Secondly, | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
the fact is that the BBC has access to and has around ?5.3 billion a | :23:44. | :23:49. | |
year. The whole of the House of Commons and the House of Lords | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
together, the whole of our democracy is only 500 million, to put that | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
into contracts. Fact is that ?3.7 billion of that comes from the | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
taxpayer, and I think that is the beginning of the argument because of | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
that amount of money is paid for either taxpayer, then it is | :24:07. | :24:09. | |
essential that you have complete impartiality. I very much agree that | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
the BBC needs its independence but the question of how you get there is | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
the real issue. As my European select committee has been | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
investigating with its reports. What about the business of government | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
appointees to the board? I think the government is entitled to have a | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
limited number of people. I think the essence of independence will | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
come from the people who are appointed. In other words how do you | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
make the appointments and decide who should be there? I think I am right | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
in saying that Ofcom have recently had quite a lot of BBC people | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
imported into the Ofcom who other people who will take over the | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
regulatory assessment of the BBC as compared to the Trust, which I think | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
by common consent has been a failure. Even Rona Fairhead admitted | :25:00. | :25:06. | |
it was not functioning properly. Anyone else with a strong view on | :25:07. | :25:13. | |
this point? It's a numbers game with appointing a new government body or | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
whatever because if you get that the chair of the BBC is appointed and | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
the government, and then the checkpoints are director-general, | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
what numbers are we talking about, who is appointing what? It will be | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
very difficult, dangerous to have that many government people. They | :25:31. | :25:37. | |
say not feel a numbers of government people are opposed to other | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
appointees -- not fewer numbers but when you factor in one | :25:43. | :25:45. | |
director-general and one chair, are the numbers that clean? Also there | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
is a huge difference between state broadcasting and public broadcasting | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
and this is public broadcasting. What do you think? The devil will be | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
in the detail although we don't know the details yet! I think the correct | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
decision has been made, to get rid of the BBC caption Trust. I see no | :26:05. | :26:15. | |
reason why this should not work, in principle. That is the governance | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
issue. Let's move to a story that has got the headlines, the issue of | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
pay. Anyone want to dive in first? Perhaps someone who has not spoken | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
yet? Victoria, you are a member of the viewing public. First I would | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
like to say that I don't think any of the people on the board should be | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
government appointees. I feel strongly about that. If we are going | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
to have independence we do not need government people getting involved | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
in the BBC. It should be truly independent. One thing that comes up | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
time and again on social media is people fearing that the government | :26:55. | :27:00. | |
is somehow meddling with our BBC, with the TV programming and also | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
with the news and once we lose their faith, that's over. You cannot lose | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
people's faith in the news. They need to know that it is independent. | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
And so I don't think there should be any government appointees. It should | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
be a board of independently appointed people, cross-party, if | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
you like. I don't have a problem with Ofcom being involved. I am cool | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
with that. They are independent, I think that's fine. When it comes to | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
the salaries, what are we trying to achieve? All this will achieve is | :27:35. | :27:42. | |
just to anger the public because honestly, the public have been | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
subject to no wage increases, in fact wage decreases, and then they | :27:48. | :27:54. | |
are going to see these fantastical salaries, we cannot deny, these | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
people on high salaries. Although the thing about these people and the | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
talent involved is, I can tell you, those people could walk out of the | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
BBC tomorrow and they could cross the road to ITV and they would get | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
double or triple that amount. So those people at the BBC because they | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
choose to be there. They believe in what it stands for. We have one | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
former BBC executive and one former ITV executive, is that true, Roger? | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
Movement between the channels is less frequent than one might think. | :28:26. | :28:32. | |
Features to be at the BBC! I take the view that we all pay for the BBC | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
and the degree of scrutiny and openness is quite an important | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
issue. Top civil servant salaries... Do you think that ?150,000 is the | :28:44. | :28:50. | |
right level, there was talk about other salaries. I don't want to get | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
into numbers because I'm not great on salary differentials. All I know | :28:57. | :28:58. | |
is that the BBC is in the public domain and must expect a degree of | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
scrutiny, given a compulsory licence fee that some other organisations | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
might not have, the Public Accounts Committee can do a good job with the | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
National Audit Office, particularly looking at the figures. There's been | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
quite a contest for some years, I've taken part in it myself with some | :29:15. | :29:22. | |
MPs, as you rightly say, tax payers money all licence payers money needs | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
to be accounted for. On the counsel individuals I do not see why people | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
should not see how much people, everyone knows how much earning | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
public companies, and they are not in the public domain. What is so | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
special? I would not set the level, I would not have one. Everyone knows | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
what everyone else earns in almost every other sphere. I don't | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
understand what is so special about the BBC. You were all nodding. | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
Tessa? I agree with that and I think that transparency about this is good | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
otherwise you get endless newspaper headlines which just plump for one | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
figure which is usually millions, and it is much better actually that | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
people know. Therefore I am in favour of publishing what talent is | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
paid but the important thing is that the BBC is not but at a commercial | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
disadvantage, and that by publishing what celebrity David Sillito is paid | :30:22. | :30:32. | |
by contrast it will make it possible for other companies to up at and say | :30:33. | :30:35. | |
we will give you more because we know what the BBC is offering you. | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
This should be incumbent on all broadcasters to create a level | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
playing field but it is right that the licence fee payer should know | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
how much is going on getting highly talented people, celebrities, to | :30:48. | :30:53. | |
take part in BBC programmes but it to be a level playing field. It | :30:54. | :31:04. | |
works two ways because talent also includes writers and it would be | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
good to publicise that, because whereas celebrities are highly paid | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
I can assure you that the writers are not and in some cases they have | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
to work for free within the BBC to do what are called trial scripts and | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
all the rest, which means that they are writing to some of the major BBC | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
shows and spending the time and doing it as professional writers and | :31:24. | :31:24. | |
for all the major BBC shows and they are not being paid. So David why not | :31:25. | :31:31. | |
more transparency on pay? The argument is that the more you | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
reveal, the easier it is to poach top talent. I'm not quite sure | :31:36. | :31:44. | |
whether that is a reality or not. Keeping it at 450 is very high. They | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
were talking about ?150,000 plus, the market is probably very | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
different to the people who bring an audience. There is a view within | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
television that there are certain people who have a certain magic | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
about them, and they are the ones paid exponentially more than anybody | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
else. It is almost like a voodoo economics of deciding who these | :32:06. | :32:07. | |
people are and what these special magic skills are they have. But the | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
execs look at the audience and say that is the magic person. | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
Self-promotion as part of the operation and all that sort of | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
thing. But it is exactly the same with chief executives of big | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
companies, sometimes they acquire some sort of mystique. If you look, | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
the more transparency that has existed in public corporations, Paea | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
carries on going up and up and up. So some people say it may actually | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
increase the amount of salaries, rather than decrease them. Let's | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
move on to the licence fee as a whole, Ryan Bourne has a bitter | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
killer interest in this from the economic board of affairs was that | :32:48. | :32:49. | |
the licence fee is therefore another 11 years at least. You think that is | :32:50. | :32:56. | |
wrong? I think it is bad for the BBC, that is the main point I will | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
try to make. Because we are seeing already in the rest of this | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
discussion, the degree of politicisation and the distortion of | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
the way that the BBC has two serve a purely domestic audience. We are | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
talking about channels and things. Television is going to evolve and | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
has been evolving rapidly over the last decade, and the real | :33:18. | :33:20. | |
competitors to the BBC now, in terms of the production of content going | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
forwards, will be Netflix, Amazon, Google, Time Warner. All of these | :33:25. | :33:30. | |
major, major producers and providers of content. If you have got a | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
licence fee, which in effect is paid by everybody that owns a television, | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
now everybody who watches on iPlayer, that creates a constraint | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
of the BBC to merely serve a domestic audience and try to be all | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
things to all men, where I think the BBC should be raising its horizons, | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
it should be given independence to pursue a real global brand, and a | :33:54. | :33:59. | |
global strategy to grow and become a huge media, international media | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
broadcaster, rather than being constraint of the domestic market. | :34:06. | :34:08. | |
What do you think of that, that question of being all things to all | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
people? If everyone is paying, everyone has to get something from | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
it, is that the best way? BBC worldwide has quite a significant | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
turnover, and the BBC World Service is pretty well watched and listened | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
to, so I'm not sure I agree. Neither do I come of the BBC is a huge part | :34:26. | :34:33. | |
of the nation's economy, shows like Sherlock and Dr Who and the rest | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
bring ?1.3 billion every year. For every pound you spend on the licence | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
fee, it gets another pound back into the coffers of the UK. Did you see | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
it as a revenue raiser? Yes, but for the BBC. The important thing about | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
the licence fee is that it is the public was Mac money, not public | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
money. Yes, of course people who pay the licence fee, most of them will | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
also be tax payers as well, but I see it rather akin to the income | :35:07. | :35:20. | |
that the lottery derives -- it is the public's money, not public | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
money. It should not pay for things which are part of mainstream public | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
expenditure. I am very concerned about the way in which this | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
government has just helped itself to chunks of licence fee payers money, | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
like for instance the decision to say it is for the BBC to run the | :35:41. | :35:47. | |
work and pensions programme, and to pay for free licenses for people | :35:48. | :35:54. | |
over 75. I think that is creating a confusion. The licence fee, ?3.7 | :35:55. | :36:00. | |
billion coming to the BBC belongs to the licence fee payer, and that is | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
why this founding point about accountability to the licence fee | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
payer is so important. It is not money that the government should be | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
free to help itself to. Hence the importance of independence. Could I | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
just come back to the question of the use to which the money is made, | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
because educate, inform and entertain. Now as I understand it, | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
and I have pressed very hard for this in papers I have written in | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
consultation exercises, that impartiality should be made one of | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
the main principles of the BBC. Because actually that is where the | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
money, as it were, certainly in terms of the content of information | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
and current affairs really comes home to roost. The real question is | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
do people really a get proper opportunity to hear both sides of | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
the argument in a fair way? And actually, in fairness, I will say | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
the BBC has improved, over this European referendum, I am very glad | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
to see that my European committee was very concerned, we have noticed | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
a very significant change, it may not be perfect, but it is certainly | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
a great improvement, and it is essential to the information, | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
because it goes straight into people's drawing rooms. That is | :37:16. | :37:18. | |
where you influence people. Not just people sitting around like we are | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
chatting, we are going into people's drawing rooms, it is affecting what | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
they think. It is very important it should be impartial. Our viewer, | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
Victoria, I can see you desperate to get in with a final thought. I agree | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
with a lot of what has been said about money coming from elsewhere. | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
Obviously, the BBC is a massive corporation, it sells its programmes | :37:44. | :37:46. | |
around the world, it is respected and recognised across the globe, and | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
it is a huge brand that we should be proud of as British people. But at | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
the same time it is also a public service. It is right that it is | :37:58. | :38:04. | |
partly funded by the licence fee. However, I think perhaps the licence | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
fee itself is a cause of quite a lot of anger for viewers, because they | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
have this bill, this licence fee that they just get angry about, | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
whereas other public services are included in normal taxation, and | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
that is fine. You can choose not to use the NHS or education, you can | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
choose not to do that, but you have got to pay for it anyway because | :38:26. | :38:27. | |
there are people out there who need it. I am going to have two | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
unfortunately, I'm sorry, I know you have so many thoughts, have to stop | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
it there. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on it, and lots of you | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
getting in touch as you are watching our discussion. I will do three pro, | :38:39. | :38:47. | |
three and the comedy the affair as I can. -- three anti. Please Mr | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
Whittingdale leave it be, says this one. George on e-mail, the BBC | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
delivers the truth, all politicians fear the truth. The future of the | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
BBC should not be in the hands of politicians, and particularly the | :39:02. | :39:03. | |
government minister involved. No problem with the BBC board, Tony on | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
Twitter, BBC belongs to the nation not any political party. George on | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
e-mail, the BBC licence fee should be completely scrapped, one of the | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
problems is the high wages for the managers and overpaid stars. Heather | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
on e-mail, the inability to try new talent. Too many presenters are | :39:22. | :39:28. | |
stale and passed their sell by date. Question time for example. Keep | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
producing the great drama at which the BBC is so adept. An anonymous | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
text, the licence fee needs to be stopped, bring back entertaining | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
television. The BBC is out of touch, it cannot continue unless it moves | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
to independent self funding and disconnects from the government. | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
Thank you for your comments. John Whittingdale is expected to speak at | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
around 11am, so there will be full coverage on the BBC of what he says. | :39:56. | :39:57. | |
Still to come: Humiliated and left to feel guilty. | :39:58. | :40:00. | |
Victims of a man who uploaded social media pictures of his sister | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
and other women onto porn websites call for tougher action, | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
after the perpetrator walked off with just a caution. | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
There is not enough knowledge within this kind of area, which is a shame, | :40:14. | :40:21. | |
really, because obviously now cases like this aren't taken seriously | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
enough. And after being left red-faced | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
following those corruption comments, the Prime Minister prepares | :40:28. | :40:29. | |
to welcome Nigeria and Afghanistan to a major conference | :40:30. | :40:32. | |
tackling the issue. We'll be asking just how much | :40:33. | :40:33. | |
damage has been caused. We are running a little late because | :40:34. | :40:40. | |
of our discussion about the BBC. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
with a summary of today's news. Plans for a major overhaul | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
in the way the BBC is run are due to be set out by the | :40:49. | :40:59. | |
Government this morning. The Trust, which governs | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
the broadcaster, is expected to be abolished, and the licence fee | :41:03. | :41:04. | |
is expected to continue for at least I have grave misgivings about the | :41:05. | :41:10. | |
establishment of a unitary board to run the BBC with a substantial | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
number of people appointed by the government. The difference with the | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
BBC trust was that the trust was established expressly to represent | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
the interests of the licence fee payer. I do think the essence of | :41:27. | :41:33. | |
independence will come from the people who are appointed, in other | :41:34. | :41:36. | |
words, how do you make the appointments and who do you decide | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
should be there? Ofcom, by the way, I think I'm right in saying have | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
just recently had quite a lot of BBC people imported into Ofcom, who are | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
the people who will take over the regulatory assessment of the BBC, as | :41:50. | :42:00. | |
compared to the trust. For the first time foreign companies who want to | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
buy property in the UK already have it will have announce who owns it. | :42:04. | :42:12. | |
David Cameron will NOT take part in any EU referendum TV debates | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
with Boris Johnson or other Conservatives. | :42:16. | :42:16. | |
Downing Street says they don't want the campaign to turn into a fight | :42:17. | :42:19. | |
Vote Leave - the official out campaign - | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
after the broadcaster excluded them from a major TV debate, and instead | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
invited Nigel Farage to represent those who want to leave the EU. | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
A 23-year-old man has been charged with the murder of a soldier | :42:34. | :42:36. | |
Private Matthew Boyd from the Royal Gibraltar Regiment disappeared after | :42:37. | :42:47. | |
leaving a pub and was found unconscious at early Sunday morning. | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
He died later in hospital. A 22-year-old man has also been | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
charged with affray. That is a summary of the latest news, Moore at | :42:56. | :42:57. | |
ten o'clock. It is all about the permit | :42:58. | :43:07. | |
relegation. If you are a Sunderland fan you will be smiling doubly wide, | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
because not only do you stay up but your 3-0 win over Everton means both | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
Norwich and Newcastle are a ligated. There were celebrations at the | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
Stadium Of Light last night. Sam Allardyce's men remained Tain in the | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
Premier League. That win for Sunderland relegates north-east | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
rivals, Newcastle. They join Norwich and Aston Villa in the Championship | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
necks is on. To cricket, Nottinghamshire fast bowler Jake | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
Ball is one of two uncapped players in the squad for England's first | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
Test match against Sri Lanka next week at Headingley. Hampshire | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
captain James Vince was also called up. Tom Daley and Grace Reid have | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
won Britain's first gold medal at the European Aquatics Championships | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
in London. They won the three metre synchro event, given that they have | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
only been diving together for ten days it is amazing, really. That is | :43:57. | :43:58. | |
all the sport for now. David Cameron is welcoming delegates | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
from countries across the world for At the top of the list - | :44:02. | :44:03. | |
transparency - so, for example, forcing countries and companies | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
to reveal who really owns what, But the event could be overshadowed | :44:08. | :44:10. | |
by the Prime Minister's Earlier this week, he was caught | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
on camera, whilst chatting with the Queen and Archbishop | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
of Canterbury, describing two of the countries sending | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
delegates to London Naomi Grimley is at Lancaster house | :44:21. | :44:36. | |
where the Conference is taking place was as a fence being taken at that? | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
I think originally offence was taken. Though yesterday in public | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
President Bo Hari of Nigeria was actually being rather gracious about | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
the incident, saying he was not going to demand an apology. Instead | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
he would rather like countries like Britain where stolen assets might | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
have been stashed in properties or banks to be returned to countries | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
like Nigeria. Nevertheless the whole episode has rather overshadowed this | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
summit, and David Cameron will be falling over himself this morning to | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
stress many of these countries now do have reforming tendencies. Places | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
like Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Nigeria, have people in charge who | :45:19. | :45:24. | |
want to crackdown on the whole issue of graft and corruption. | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
The moment will speak to some people about what the Commons mean for the | :45:31. | :45:40. | |
summit. Sarah Chaves has written a book called Thieves of State: Why | :45:41. | :45:42. | |
Corruption Threatens Global and has been invited to attend the | :45:43. | :45:44. | |
conference. She will be speaking later. I asked her how she defines | :45:45. | :45:52. | |
corruption. In these days, it is more than just a practice that some | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
venal members, or even many venal members of government engaging. It | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
is actually the practice of very sophisticated and successful | :46:03. | :46:10. | |
networks that control how all aspects of their societies in a lot | :46:11. | :46:12. | |
of countries, meaning government officials are bending the elements | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
of state function. I mean, government agencies are being bent | :46:19. | :46:21. | |
to serve the purposes of personal enrichment. Private sector actors | :46:22. | :46:29. | |
are part of this network, sometimes even criminals come out and out | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
criminals, are part of these networks. You have these integrated | :46:34. | :46:40. | |
networks that have wired closed the whole political economy of | :46:41. | :46:42. | |
countries. Then they have, as we have all been hearing, facilitators | :46:43. | :46:50. | |
that are located outside of these countries. And then they take the | :46:51. | :46:53. | |
money out of the countries and they spend it in places like London, New | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
York and Florida. This is obviously about dirty money, vested interests. | :46:59. | :47:07. | |
You see a clear link to extremism? I do, I see it because when a system | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
is so thoroughly wired the way that I just described it, people have no | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
recourse. Not only is there money being stolen, but something that | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
Westerners often tend to underestimate is that their dignity | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
is being stolen as well. When a police officer on the street stops | :47:25. | :47:27. | |
you and shakes you down for money, it might not be very much that he is | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
taking from you, but he doesn't do it politely, he does not say, please | :47:32. | :47:40. | |
would you mind, my salary is low. He is pushing you around, and very | :47:41. | :47:43. | |
often all you have left is your dignity. Imagine you are a proud, | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
young Afghan man, and I spent a number of years in Afghanistan, and | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
a police officer shoves you, smacks you and demand some money, and you | :47:53. | :47:55. | |
have nothing but that dignity, at some point you wanted to kill the | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
guy. What you have in southern Afghanistan, for example, is the | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
Taliban not only offer you the opportunity to kill the police | :48:03. | :48:10. | |
officer, but they offer you the argument. The argument is, the | :48:11. | :48:12. | |
reason that police officer or that judge is so corrupt is because it is | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
not obey God's law. And if only our government was organised according | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
to God's law, this would never happen like this. It is a spurious | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
argument, but when you are furious and when there is no recourse for | :48:27. | :48:33. | |
you, to be had from the government, because the government has tied up | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
every element, both of the private sector and the public sector, well, | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
you often turn to God for recourse. I have seen it in Afghanistan, I | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
have seen it in Nigeria, I have seen it in Central Asia. I'm not saying | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
it happens all the time that way, because other people have turned to | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
revolution. We have had the Arab Spring, which originally was not an | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
extremist event, it spun in that direction eventually. We have had | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
Ukraine. I am saying this type of system pushes people to extremes. | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
You said about where the laundered money ends up being spent, that | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
brings all sorts of countries into the frame? So, questions for all | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
countries to answer? Absolutely, that is why I find this summit so | :49:25. | :49:31. | |
fascinating. It was guaranteed to be messy, right? Corruption is not a | :49:32. | :49:38. | |
safe topic, that is why so many political leaders just look the | :49:39. | :49:43. | |
other way. It's the experience I've had over the years, trying to get | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
political decision-makers to really take this on, they decide it is | :49:47. | :49:53. | |
boring. In fact, it is not a boring topic at all, as we are discovering. | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
If you're going to have an anti-corruption Summit in London, it | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
is going to blow up in your face, it is guaranteed to blow up in your | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
face. These networks that I am describing, as I say, have | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
international facilitators like the law firm of Panama, but it also goes | :50:10. | :50:24. | |
outside. They want to protect their money, they want to buy luxurious | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
things with their money, they want to achieve visible staters with | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
their money. They can't do that very often in their own countries. They | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
do that also, they build fantastically huge properties. At a | :50:38. | :50:43. | |
city like London and New York, those are cities that carry stature. There | :50:44. | :50:51. | |
is image enhancement to spending your money in London or New York. | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
The embarrassing thing is that our economies in the west are | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
predicated, very often, on corrupt money. We had a former mayor of New | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
York saying I want every billionaire in the world to buy property in New | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
York. Well, is every billionaire in the world getting their money | :51:13. | :51:14. | |
honestly or legally? No. Let's talk now to Kate McMahon, | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
Serious Fraud Lawyer at Edmonds Marshall McMahon, | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
Sir William Patey, former British ambassador to Afghanistan, | :51:22. | :51:23. | |
who has spoken frankly about what he sees as the errors | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
and failings in the country, and Robert Barrington | :51:28. | :51:30. | |
from Transparency International, an organisation which works | :51:31. | :51:32. | |
to combat global corruption. Thank you for joining us. Kate, we | :51:33. | :51:47. | |
were hearing from Sarah Chaves that if you think corruption is about | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
stopping in another country and not affecting us here, you are wrong. | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
Tell us what you encounter and what the scale is? Absolutely, my | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
background is dealing with lots of international frauds, where there is | :52:01. | :52:02. | |
some element of that has occurred in the UK. Very often, as we have | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
already heard this morning, the UK is an incredibly attractive place | :52:08. | :52:16. | |
for money, it is safe, ironically with rules and regulations which | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
meant people feel safe. ?180 billion of unexplained money is set to own | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
various houses and properties in England. Unexplained, through | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
foreign companies and nobody knows who owns them? Absolutely, correct. | :52:31. | :52:37. | |
What we often deal with any fraud and corruption sphere is lots of | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
money and lots of property without any identifiable owner. One of the | :52:41. | :52:43. | |
big issues at the moment is how do we make those owners more | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
identifiable and more accountable? That is something we are expecting | :52:48. | :52:51. | |
to hear from David Cameron later, those companies will have to reveal | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
who is the ultimate owner, but it will not apply to British Overseas | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
Territories? Is that going to be a loophole? To some extent, that will | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
be a loophole. The question is, do we make those companies have to | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
declare a significant interest in any UK company or any UK property? | :53:10. | :53:16. | |
So, irrespective of where you have set up your trust Company, if you | :53:17. | :53:19. | |
want to invest in the UK, you're going to have to declare that | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
investment and that you have a significant control of a company | :53:24. | :53:26. | |
where you may not come on paper, appear as a director. Anybody | :53:27. | :53:36. | |
looking to launder money is going to look for any loophole and go there, | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
rather than complying with what comes in. Do you expect anything | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
that comes in to have much of an impact? Corruption is one of the | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
things we are tackling, but slowly. If it has an effect and 30%, that is | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
wonderful progress. Obviously you cannot stop people from asking | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
friends or people that work for them, or other associates to that | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
interest. What it does show is that there is a link between the person, | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
potentially, purchasing with the beneficial interest, and the person | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
that purchases. At least we will be able to create links. So William | :54:10. | :54:18. | |
Haiti, David Cameron described Afghanistan as fantastically | :54:19. | :54:21. | |
corrupt, do you agree? I think it is a statement of fact. I don't even | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
think the Afghan President would dispute it. He set out his stall as | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
the new President to try to deal with corruption. It is something | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
that can be a very low level, up to very high level. It can be from a | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
policeman, as one of the previous contributor said, taking a bride | :54:40. | :54:51. | |
from an innocent citizen -- bribe, right up to stealing the assets from | :54:52. | :54:59. | |
the biggest bank in Afghanistan. It is extremely complicated and the | :55:00. | :55:02. | |
only way to deal with it is to shine light on it, make a transparent, | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
make it difficult for people to hide money, deal with corruption and the | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
judiciary, and deal with corrupt politicians. There is no easy | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
solution. Robert Barrington, you are from Transparency International, do | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
you think that this summit will achieve transparency? It could do | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
that, it is a different summit to all of the others that there have | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
been. We have heard that the communique has been watered down, | :55:29. | :55:34. | |
which is a bit to Singh. -- a bit disturbing. I think you'll | :55:35. | :55:42. | |
contribute Izzat correct, tackling corruption is chock full of | :55:43. | :55:44. | |
loopholes, and the summit could help close some of them, possibly many of | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
them. It is a question of political will. The political will on display | :55:51. | :55:55. | |
from Britain is quite impressive. Also, the leaders gathering around | :55:56. | :55:57. | |
the world to do this. Cynics will say this is not good enough, and the | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
UK has weaknesses in Crown dependencies. This is likely to be a | :56:03. | :56:08. | |
step forward. We are talking about corruption on lots of different | :56:09. | :56:14. | |
levels. You said it goes to the person on the street who asks for | :56:15. | :56:17. | |
extra money to let somebody through, or whatever. Are those sorts of | :56:18. | :56:26. | |
things just culturally ingrained in a way that they are not going to be | :56:27. | :56:33. | |
eradicated? Can every aspect be tackled? There is a danger of saying | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
it is a cultural problem and thinking that we in Britain are | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
immune. I don't think we are. We have seen changes in Afghanistan. | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
The police issue, there was a drop in corruption when policeman got | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
their salaries on their telephones. Until that point, they hadn't | :56:51. | :56:53. | |
realised how much money they were getting because their commanders | :56:54. | :56:56. | |
were taking half of it. When the police get paid properly, the | :56:57. | :57:05. | |
incentives for hassling, for citizens to steal money, they are | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
reduced. There are systemic things you can do, but you have to tackle | :57:09. | :57:14. | |
it, bit by bit. Intrinsically, I don't think Afghans are more corrupt | :57:15. | :57:17. | |
than anybody else, but there are failings in the system that make it | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
easier for corrupt people to survive, and then others that say | :57:22. | :57:24. | |
they are getting away with it, why won't I? It is very important to | :57:25. | :57:32. | |
have light shone on it. An incorruptible judiciary, politicians | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
who give the right lead. It is not easy, I don't think there is | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
anything intrinsically corrupt about Afghans. Robert Barrington, these | :57:40. | :57:46. | |
are issues that have been around for ever, 2016 and this is being talked | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
about. Do you think politicians have shied away from these issues before? | :57:51. | :57:57. | |
Yes. I mean, it is quite clear that this anti-corruption Summit is | :57:58. | :58:00. | |
talking about corruption, it is saying that the UK Government and | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
others have not been good enough in the past. That is a new approach. In | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
the past, these things having called integrity, governance, these sort of | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
things, and not called it out as corruption, which is what the Prime | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
Minister has done. The UK still has a lot to do, so do other | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
governments. Political will is a key ingredient. I think some of that | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
will be on display today. Thank you for joining us. Let's catch up with | :58:25. | :58:26. | |
the weather. Other places have beautiful | :58:27. | :58:44. | |
temperatures, some have clouds and rain, the cloud and the rain is | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
across the south-west in the channel islands where we have murky | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
conditions, around the coastline of Wales as well, away from that a fair | :58:52. | :58:55. | |
bit of sunshine but still cloud coming down the used coast. | :58:56. | :59:02. | |
Temperatures not too bad for many, if you are under the rain they will | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
be suppressed, the rain moving down Cornwall to the hours of silly. We | :59:08. | :59:11. | |
see a return to sunshine and showers as we do across Wales, the showers | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
will be isolated but if you catch when it could be sharp, in Kendell, | :59:17. | :59:22. | |
220 Celsius. Across to Northern Ireland, warming up with some | :59:23. | :59:25. | |
sunshine and the cloud across the north-east of Scotland burning up | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
towards the coast, and much of Scotland seeing some sunshine and | :59:31. | :59:33. | |
showers and temperatures in the West again apt to around 23. North East | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
England, anywhere from a fumble and towards the Wash prone to the breeze | :59:40. | :59:44. | |
across the sea which will suppress temperatures, four East Anglian | :59:45. | :59:48. | |
around London and into Kent, in the Midlands it is looking fine and dry, | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
pollen levels more or less across the board today are going to be | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
high, something to bear in mind if you have an allergy to tree pollen. | :59:57. | :00:08. | |
And Joanna Gosling, welcome to the programme if you have just joined | :00:09. | :00:15. | |
us. The future of the BBC should become clearer when the Culture | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
Secretary today unveils plans to change the way it is run. The Trust | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
which governs the corporation will be abolished although the licence | :00:24. | :00:24. | |
fee will be abolished. A man who uploaded pictures of his | :00:25. | :00:35. | |
sister and some of her friends onto a pawn site got a caution. His | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
victims believe that is not enough. It was not just because they were | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
uploaded onto this site, it was what he had written that was disturbing | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
that, having someone walk away, get on with his life and maybe meet | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
somebody some day who knows nothing about it, that is just scary. Fake | :00:56. | :01:02. | |
Viagra is flooding the online market and now accounts for 90% of all | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
illegal medicines seized. Those buying it are putting their health | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
at risk, people are warned. We have found some medicines stored in a | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
shed in the back garden, damp, rats and mice crawling all over this | :01:19. | :01:19. | |
stuff. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom | :01:20. | :01:32. | |
with a summary of today's news. Plans for a "major overhaul" | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
in the way the BBC is run, are being set out by | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
the Government this morning. The Trust - which governs | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
the broadcaster - is expected to be abolished, | :01:41. | :01:42. | |
and the licence fee is expected to continue for at least | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
another eleven years. I have grave misgivings about the | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
establishment of a unitary board to run the BBC with a substantial | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
number of people appointed by the government. The difference with the | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
BBC Trust was that the Trust was established in press late to | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
represent the interests of the licence fee payable asthma | :02:10. | :02:09. | |
expressly. I do think the essence of | :02:10. | :02:17. | |
independence will come from the people appointed. How do you make | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
the appointments and decide who should be there? Ofcom, think I'm | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
right in saying, have recently had quite a lot of BBC people imported | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
into Ofcom, who other people who will take over the regulatory | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
assessment of the BBC as compared to the Trust. | :02:36. | :02:37. | |
For the first time, foreign companies that already have, | :02:38. | :02:39. | |
or want to buy, property in the UK will have to reveal | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
It's one of the measures being announced by David Cameron | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
today at an international conference to fight global corruption | :02:48. | :02:50. | |
David Cameron will not take part in any EU referendum TV debates with | :02:51. | :02:59. | |
Boris Johnson or other Tories. Downing Street says they don't want | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
the campaign to turn into a fight between Tory politicians. Vote | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
Leave, the official Out campaign has accused ITV of taking sides after it | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
excluded them from a TV debate and instead invited Nigel Farage to | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
represent those who want to leave the EU. | :03:17. | :03:31. | |
A man has been charged with the murder of a soldier who disappeared | :03:32. | :03:40. | |
in Brecon. Private Matthew borrowed from the Royal Gibraltar Regiment | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
disappeared after leaving above unconscious early on Sunday morning. | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
He died later in hospital, 22-year-old man has been charged | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
with affray. Donald Trump appears to have soft and his stance on Muslims. | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
The proposed ban has been widely criticised in the USA and the board. | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
The abortion rate in many countries are stocked to an all-time low | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
mainly due to advances in contraception. Research published in | :04:08. | :04:19. | |
the Lancet medical journal suggests that 20 72 nations are carried out | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
per 1000 women each year. In developing countries where | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
contraception is more limited rates have remained stable. The Brazilian | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
president to Marissa looks certain to face impeachment proceedings as | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
members of the country's Senate debate whether she should be put on | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
trial. Please have fired tear gas at protesters outside parliament in the | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
capital as the debate carries on inside. What an half the senators | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
have already said they will vote for impeachment. A company which sent a | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
temp home from work refusing to wear high heels has changed its policy | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
making it clear that flat shoes are acceptable. Nicola Thorpe was told | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
she had to wear heels of between two and four inches for a job as a | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
receptionist in London. More than 60,000 people signed a petition in | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
protest. That's the latest BBC News. Thank you, many people have been | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
getting in touch, Tony says, I believe the BBC has lost its way, | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
it's an old-fashioned corporation that has no respect for the way it | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
is funded primarily by the public and refuses to make changes that the | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
public would welcome. Valerie says by e-mail, I am worried about the | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
vehemence by the government of the BBC. Long-term we might have an even | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
more radical government and of the BBC is muzzled we would not know | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
what was going on. The BBC must stay independent. Ma'afu, in a text, | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
says, the BBC in this country is unique, people need to remember they | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
can get a mixture of TV channels and radio stations for less than pound a | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
day. Keep it independent. Another viewers says get rid of the BBC | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
altogether, it is out of date, Chris says, it is known and loved, may | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
that continue, and another viewers says that it does too much digital | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
and Internet. I could carry on reading for a long time because so | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
many of you have sent your thoughts. Keep on sending them and I will read | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
at as many as I can. Remember the hashtags that we can find your | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
comments when they come in. You will be charged at the standard network | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
rate. Let's catch up with the sports is, it's all about Premier League | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
relegation, over to you, Hugh. Congratulations to Sunderland. They | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
stay up. Commiserations for Newcastle and Norwich will go down. | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
Sunderland boss Sam Allott ice calls upon the club to forget the dark | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
days of relegation struggle after they guaranteed Premier League | :06:42. | :06:43. | |
survival by beating Everton 3-1 last night. Their defender scored two | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
goals. This was his first, finishing like a centre forward, this came | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
after an opener by Patrick van Aanholt. After the match some Allott | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
ice said he wanted his squad to come through the tough times stronger and | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
stronger. For the rest of the lads and their families, well done, a | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
terrific effort by us all. It has paid off for us in the end, all the | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
hard work we have done, not just me as manager but all the backroom | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
staff, we have put all work together, everything has turned out | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
well, as they say. Sunderland fans will be especially vocal at work | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
today in the north-east. This result means they have relegated their | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
north-east rivals Newcastle as well as Norwich although there will be | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
questions for their owner Ashley now, not the least, can hold onto | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
their highly rated manager, Phil Benitez? The problem will be if he | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
stays you want to turn Sunderland into force in the Premier League. We | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
heard months ago that the next question he would ask of the board | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
would be, how do we get into the Champions League. Not easy to do | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
that when you are in the division below, I would imagine that Rafa | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
Benitez would never have imagined himself managing in there. There is | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
some hope because he been won over by the enthusiasm of the Newcastle | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
fans. I think there is a glimmer of hope although he will want massive | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
assurances of money and being able to turn around the club the way that | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
he wants because at the moment there's a lot of competing people at | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
Newcastle. The England cricket squad to play Sri Lanka in the next test | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
is announced, two uncapped players called up, Jake Ball of | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
Nottinghamshire, the seam bowler, makes the squad and so does | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
Hampshire batsman James Vince. Full details on the BBC website. The | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
Headingley Test match begins next Thursday. Great Britain won their | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
first gold of the European aquatic Championships last night next to Tom | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
Daley and Grace Read in the mixed three metres synchronised diving. It | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
was a good birthday present for Grace was 20 on Monday. It is a | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
prising result given that they haven't been together for long. I | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
don't what happened, we got put together ten days ago and we've done | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
about five sessions and we've just come away, the European champions, | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
on a board where I never train. I haven't done a hurdle step for six | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
months. I'm over the moon with the way it went. It was great to have | :09:20. | :09:29. | |
the home crowd and my family and Grace's family in the audience. It | :09:30. | :09:31. | |
has been fun although I was terrified before the competition! I | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
will be back with the headlines later, see you then, Joanna. Thank | :09:35. | :09:42. | |
you. Migrants coming to the UK for a short-term stay has affected | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
statistics to the point that they make have been misunderstood. In a | :09:48. | :10:00. | |
word, basically, national insurance figures out today indicate how many | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
people are here from abroad and working and therefore have a | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
national insurance number. There is a disparity between those with | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
national insurance numbers and those officially recorded as coming to the | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
country. These are very technical figures. You perhaps need an | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
advanced degree statistics to get your head around them. But it comes | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
down to is trying to give an answer to a row that's been developing in | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
the last year or so it in government, some economists, and | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
critically, campaigners against membership of the EU about the true | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
level of European Union migration. In short this is what the picture | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
is. We have an official estimate for long-term immigration to the UK. | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
Within that we know this and estimated quarter of a million EU | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
migrants coming to live in the UK, in the year September 20 15. Coming | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
to settle here. Maybe with families. They've got a long-term job, they | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
are here. Maybe they students as well. But the figure of a national | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
insurance numbers which all of us have is much higher. Almost three | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
times higher than the estimates of immigration. What critics have said | :11:11. | :11:18. | |
is, how can a national insurance number be 665,000 four the Nabokov | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
EU workers or citizens, and the figure for migration be so much | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
lower! The acquisition has been that this has been some kind of cover up. | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
If you reconcile the figures and becomes a smoking gun for the true | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
level of EU migration. It's much more complex than that. The | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
difference according to the Office of National Statistics is about | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
short-term migration. What our official migration statistics count | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
is people coming here for one year or more. Not people coming on short | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
term contracts. An example, in the East of England every summer and | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
autumn tens of thousands of people come from Eastern Europe to pick | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
carrots and potatoes and broccoli. Short-term migrants, the end of that | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
contract they will go home. They need a national insurance number to | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
be paid and claim tax credits were necessary to pay their taxes but | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
they will not show up in the official immigration statistics | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
because they go home. Another example of a difference, some people | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
with national Insurance numbers who are EU citizens leave the country | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
after years but still have an active number. An experienced, my father is | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
Italian, you doesn't live in the UK any more but because he has a | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
British pension and acids in this country he's got a national | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
insurance number. So this is a complex picture -- he doesn't live | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
in the UK but he has assets in this country. So the true level of | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
migration is the quarter of a million figure quoted? That they is | :12:55. | :13:01. | |
an estimate, the ONS says it is 95% confident it's got it right -- that | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
figure is an estimate. That figure has been regularly criticised in the | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
past. At an early stage of migration the oh and as acknowledged it was | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
not doing enough to count people coming from other parts of the | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
country, doing well at counting people coming through Heathrow or | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
Dover but struggling at people coming to other airports. It thinks | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
it has got the figure right but that figure does not include this | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
short-term migration. What we know from other figures including the | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
census is the total of EU migrants in the UK is about 3 million. A lot | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
of them are here. So what it indicates is that there are a lot of | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
people coming from abroad to work here. In migration circles this is | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
called global children. People maximising their right to freedom of | :13:54. | :14:03. | |
movement around the world. -- global churn. They go home, although they | :14:04. | :14:04. | |
might come back later. Let's talk to two Europeans | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
who moved here to work. From Tilbury in Essex, | :14:09. | :14:10. | |
Polish lorry driver Andrew Lipinski who says new migrants | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
are damagng his income and Spanish graphic designer Pablo Lladosa | :14:14. | :14:15. | |
who moved to London Thank you both for joining us. | :14:16. | :14:28. | |
Andrew, you have been working in the UK for 12 years but you are not | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
happy about other people coming here, undermining what you are | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
doing. Talk to us about that. Good morning everyone. I came to England | :14:37. | :14:45. | |
to work, like many people as soon as Poland joined the EU, as an HGV | :14:46. | :14:53. | |
driver. I had been doing this job in Poland for about eight years. And | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
then I started work in England but before England, I worked in Ireland. | :14:59. | :15:06. | |
I can tell you my experience from Ireland, in 2002, I started working | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
in Ireland, I got a permit for work and everything. It was fine. Work is | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
fantastic. I'm Polish but I complain as well at this moment, as soon as | :15:20. | :15:27. | |
Poland joined the EU, might work in Ireland completely changed. -- my | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
work changed. Because so many people came to work with our company that | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
the owner of the company, the boss, tried to force us to break the law | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
and do stuff like this on the road. Mainly working overtime, illegally. | :15:45. | :15:52. | |
He said, look, I have ten people, 50 people in your place, if you don't | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
do this you can go home. That's what happened to me in Ireland. So I had | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
to leave the country so I could find work in England and that is what | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
I've done, so in 2004, I finished work in Ireland, and I started | :16:08. | :16:14. | |
working England. It was good work until the EU started to expand and | :16:15. | :16:24. | |
new countries joined. Again, a similar situation happened to in | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
Ireland, to me. I have to look for somewhere else to work now, because | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
I can't afford to pay my mortgage any more. My wage, my rate of pay, | :16:34. | :16:41. | |
is frozen, 12 years, it hasn't risen at all. Actually it's falling. When | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
you say you need to look for someone else, are you saying that you will | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
leave England? Yes, I'm thinking of going to Australia now. Because | :16:53. | :16:59. | |
Poland is a member of the EU now. It should be fantastic and it is not | :17:00. | :17:06. | |
fantastic at all. Mr Donald Tusk, the president of Europe... I want to | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
bring in Pablo. Thank you, Andrew. Pablo, you have a different | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
perspective. First, it's really hard to find a job. That is something | :17:17. | :17:24. | |
that we know. But I don't think it is about someone else getting your | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
job. In this case, I am not sure, what can I say about this case? I'm | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
pretty sure that the amount of migrants we have in the UK is really | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
good. More opportunities, more jobs, more business. I am not sure how | :17:43. | :17:53. | |
accurate this is, saying someone else is getting my job. Why did you | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
choose to come to England? I was a graphic designer, working in Madrid. | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
I came to London for more opportunities here. What were the | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
pull factors? These issues always get discussed around these | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
conversations, national minimum wage and benefits. Did those come into | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
play for you? Yes, the truth is that in the UK, the national wage is | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
better than in many countries in Europe. So I think this is why loads | :18:27. | :18:33. | |
of people are coming here. I think it's good to have new people, this | :18:34. | :18:44. | |
is attracting very talented people from Europe. So we can create more | :18:45. | :18:53. | |
business, I like it that there are more people here. More migrants. | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
Coming quickly, Andrew, we are almost out of time. Yes, more | :18:59. | :19:09. | |
people, more money, but is not the point. Tesco or Sainsbury's, they | :19:10. | :19:17. | |
are looking for the cheapest Labour possible. Is the national minimum | :19:18. | :19:25. | |
wage which has up wages. ?7 50, I have to pay a mortgage. I'm an HGV | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
driver. I need lots of assessments and tests. You want me to work for | :19:33. | :19:44. | |
?7 50? I'm sorry. How should I pay the English mortgage? I'm talking | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
about an English mortgage, not abolish mortgage or a Spanish | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
mortgage which is on a different level. -- not a Polish mortgage. | :19:51. | :19:59. | |
Today Tesco is applying people for ?7 50, maybe drivers for ?10 an | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
hour. This is before tax. I could afford to work for this money. That | :20:05. | :20:11. | |
was 12 years ago. Not today. It is good to hear your perspective, both | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
of you, Andrew and Pablo, thank you both. The Internet is now home to | :20:15. | :20:22. | |
countless imitations of Viagra, we have learned that the market for | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
fake Viagra is growing. In the last year officers have seized more than | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
in any previous year and it now accounts for 90% of all illegal | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
medicines. Users are putting their health at serious risk. Our reporter | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
Jean MacKenzie went on a raid with officers trying to find the fakes | :20:40. | :20:41. | |
and catch the dealers. Many of these drugs are made in | :20:42. | :20:51. | |
unhygienic non-sophisticated locations. Any heavy metal product | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
that could be toxic, like lead, like arsenic, etc. Open the door! | :20:58. | :21:09. | |
Unlicensed Viagra is big business. More was seized last year in the UK | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
than ever before. Most of it heading for the Internet. Viagra has been an | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
amazing drag in anyways -- many ways, the only drug of its kind in | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
many ways and it has revolutionised the lives of people physically and | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
psychologically. The pills are sold cheap at around ?2 each, they may be | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
imitations of Viagra, or a generic Indian version of the drug. They are | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
shipped to the UK in bulk, packaged and posted on, customers not sure | :21:41. | :21:49. | |
what is inside. There may be many more people than we know about | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
taking it over the Internet and using it in a completely unregulated | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
way. We are in a raid with the agency that regulates medicines in | :21:59. | :22:01. | |
the hope that they can find some fakes. The person we are going to | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
see this morning is involved in the sale and supply of unlicensed | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
medicines. Mostly erectile dysfunctional medicines, what people | :22:13. | :22:19. | |
know as Viagra. We have learned that officers seized more than ?11 | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
million worth of these erectile dysfunction drugs last year, many | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
more than in previous years, these drugs made up 90% of all the illegal | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
medicine that they found. It's quite a nerve wracking moment, heading off | :22:35. | :22:45. | |
to a job like this. By way of? Aware of. -- we are off. Open the door. | :22:46. | :22:54. | |
This is the agency's biggest ever operation. It has 24 search warrants | :22:55. | :23:02. | |
and 50 officers across London. Lead us get it under control first. She | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
won't let you in. Please don't record, we are a respectable family. | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
We neither smoke or drink. I beg to differ. When you go onto the website | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
and you have a picture of a pharmacist with a white coat and a | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
stethoscope and it all looks above board, your medicines are not coming | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
from a pharmacy, they coming from a street like this. We have recovered | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
medicines being sold, they've been in a shed in the back garden that. | :23:32. | :23:34. | |
And rotten, rats and mice crawling all over this stuff! -- a shed that | :23:35. | :23:42. | |
was damp and rotten. So how can you spot a fake? We've come to a | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
counterfeit testing lab run by Pfizer, the drug company that makes | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
Viagra. How do you know this isn't real? The first obvious difference | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
is that in a genuine pack writing for the product name is blue and on | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
the counterfeit product it is green. In Pfizer we will test products | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
around the globe and we have found counterfeit products in 111 | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
countries. Two they know that they are buying fakes, or is this a | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
choice? If they've no reference against which to match it they may | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
not know it is a counterfeit product. These are the two tablets | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
side-by-side. Which one is the real one? This one is the counterfeit | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
product. You can see immediately that it is a different shade of blue | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
to the original product on the right-hand side. We know that this | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
is not a genuine Pfizer product. Although you do not know what is in | :24:40. | :24:48. | |
it. We don't know what is in it. So we have taken a sample of what we | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
think is the counterfeit product, we've put it on this machine, this | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
machine will do a chemical fingerprint on that sample and then | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
we will look at the chemical fingerprint on the screen. There are | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
clearly differences between the red trace and the purple trays which is | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
indicative that it is not a general product. How much harm is there to | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
the patient if they get something roughly the same? Sometimes the | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
counterfeit can be close enough, the much is reasonably good but other | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
times, maybe because of a lack of medication or too much medication | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
within the product, other agents added that should not be in the | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
product, they are toxic and the patient could come to significant | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
harm. I had a number of people have severe side effects like visual | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
problems, people could potentially faint, you could have dangerous | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
reductions in blood pressure and even potentially heart problems. The | :25:42. | :25:49. | |
woman here is arrested but officers have yet to find any pills. This was | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
a big operation and you were searching a lot of properties. This | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
must be disappointing. It is a bit disappointing not to find any major | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
stock and sources of products, whatever they have been dealing in, | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
the amounts have been small and spread across a number of addresses | :26:10. | :26:17. | |
in order to evade detection. We have a store full of products that | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
testifies to the fact that we do have an impact. This is where we | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
keep all of our seized medicines. There are a lot of them, then! There | :26:28. | :26:34. | |
are ?25 million worth of medicines here which has been collected over | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
the past few years. All the medicines in here were found in the | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
address that started this entire investigation. You see what I mean, | :26:46. | :26:52. | |
they are kept in loose blisters, that could split open, there is no | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
packaging, no boxes, no advice. The patient is taking this blind and | :26:58. | :27:04. | |
placing all of their health trust in what is essentially a drug dealer. | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
You are seizing more than ever before. Where has this market come | :27:08. | :27:15. | |
from? This market, there's a youth market for this, it is used by adult | :27:16. | :27:24. | |
males who don't actually have the medical condition that this could be | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
prescribed for, the use that as sexual enhancement for the weekend. | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
-- they use it as sexual enhancement the weekend. Increasingly younger | :27:35. | :27:43. | |
people seem to be trying to obtain Viagra because they see it as some | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
sort of recreational drug almost and they feel that it enhances and | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
boosts them psychologically which it absolutely doesn't. A drug which | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
only has physical effects, as it were, with respect to erectile | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
dysfunction and that misconception is leading to younger people wanting | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
to try it even if they don't need it. After dozens of searches and | :28:06. | :28:11. | |
three arrests officers find a stash of pills but not as many as they had | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
hoped, keeping up with the dealers has proved tricky. They know the | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
only way to win is to stop people from taking them. That was Jean | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
MacKenzie reporting on the online market for fake Viagra. Still to | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
come. A man who admitted uploading pictures of his sister and other | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
women onto pawn websites, causing them humiliation and distress, got | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
police caution. His victims tell us they do not think that is enough. | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
And on the final day of the Invictus Games in Florida we will be speaking | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
live to one of the stars of team UK, Petty Officer Sean Gaffney on | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
winning four medals, including two gold medals. It's almost 10:30am. | :28:56. | :29:06. | |
Plans for an overhaul of the BBC are being set out by the government | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
today. Here is the rest of the day 's news. Good morning everyone. The | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
Trust which governs the BBC is expected to be abolished and the | :29:18. | :29:20. | |
licence fee is expected to continue for at least another 11 years in | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
plans to be set out by the Culture Secretary, John Whittingdale, this | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
morning. For the first time, foreign companies that already have or want | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
to buy property in the UK will have to reveal who owns it. It's one of | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
the measures being announced by David Cameron on today at an | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
international conference to fight global corruption or | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
money-laundering. He's been explaining why he's been hosting the | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
event. I believe corruption is the cancer at the heart of so many | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
problems we need to tackle in our world if we want to see countries | :29:53. | :29:59. | |
scape property, we need to tackle corruption. We need to tackle | :30:00. | :30:08. | |
corruption. If we want to defeat terrorism and extremism, we need to | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
recognise that corruption and lack of access to justice can often be | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
the way people are driven towards extremism. | :30:16. | :30:16. | |
lack of access to justice can be the way people are driven towards | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
extremism. David Cameron will not take part in any EU referendum TV | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
debates with Boris Johnson or other Conservatives. Downing Street says | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
they don't want the campaign to turn into a fight between Tory | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
politicians. Vote Leave, the official out campaign, accused | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
impolite TV of taking sides after the broadcaster excluded them from a | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
TV debate and invited far Nigel Farage to represent those who want | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
to leave the EU. Migrants coming to Britain for short periods largely | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
account for a gap in statistics which fuels figures are | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
underestimated. The study published by the Office of National Statistics | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
say the estimates and the registration of national insurance | :31:01. | :31:12. | |
numbers to foreign Nashals. Days appeared after leaving a pub and was | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
found unconscious on Sunday morning later in hospital, a 22-year-old | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
man's also been charged with affray. That's the summary of the latest | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
news. Join me for BBC News room live at 11.00. Now back to Joanna. Some | :31:28. | :31:36. | |
breaking news on NHS statistics and the numbers of people admitted to | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
A Hospitals in England saw the worst performance in A units in | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
March since records began in 2004 according to these new statistics. | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
87.3% of patients were treated or assessed in four hours. The target | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
is 95%. They fell short of their target some way. More than two | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
million patients went to A That us an up 7% come paired with March | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
last year. It is the highest number of people attending A since | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
records began on that in 2010. All the key NHS performance targets in | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
England have been missed again, according to these hattest | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
statistics, including ambulance response times, cancer treatment | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
waiting times and waiting times for consultant-led treatment. Those | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
figures coming through on NHS performance. Let's catch up with the | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
store are sport. There were celebrations | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
at the Stadium of Light though as Sam Allardyce's Sunderland | :32:39. | :32:40. | |
maintained their place in the Premier League thanks | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
to a 3-0 win over Everton. That win for Sunderland relegates | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
their North East rivals Newcastle - they will now join Norwich | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
and Aston Villa in the Nottinghamshire fast bowler | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
Jake Ball is one of two uncapped players in the squad for England's | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
first test match against Sri Lanka The Hampshire captain James Vince | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
has also been called up. And British diver Tom Daley's | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
back to winning ways. He and Grace Reid have won Britain's | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
first gold medal at the European The pair won the three metre syncro | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
event amazing given they have only That's all the sport for now. Back | :33:14. | :33:33. | |
to you. Thank you, in around 30 minutes, the culture secretary John | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
whetting dale will outline his vision for the future of the BBC. | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
Loads of you are getting in touch. #50i8' run through some of the | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
emails, texts and tweets coming from you. I'll start with a round-up of | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
some anti-BBC and then some pro-BBC. Some anti-'s first of all. Why can't | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
we buy a television without the BBC's service? Time to give viewers | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
a real option. Why are we forced to pay their fee. Cancel the licence | :34:01. | :34:08. | |
fee and go pay-per-view. Why do peer people have to pay TV license when | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
they are struggling to pay their household bills. The BBC BBC should | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
not employ expensive talent to attract audience. The quality of | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
programmes should do that. The writers would become important and | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
get paid fairly. That goes back to something said in our discussions | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
earlier. Some writers have to write for free. Sue, scrap the TV license | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
put adds after the TV programmes and not during them. All they seem to | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
make is cooking programmes or repeats. Row wean in an on e-mail, I | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
should only pay for the BBC if I want it. I am a customer on Sky and | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
knelt flicks. I am on low income. I can't afford to pay the BBC when I | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
don't want to watch it. Some pros. The BBC in this country is unique. | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
They can get a mixture of TV channels and radio stations for less | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
than ?1 a day. Keep it independent from the Government. It needs to be | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
different from other broad Kisters. Otherwise. What is the point of | :35:05. | :35:11. | |
having it. I grew up in Africa. If it wasn't for the BBC we wouldn't | :35:12. | :35:14. | |
know what was happening. Stop Melsing with it. Margaret the reason | :35:15. | :35:20. | |
e-mail, leave the BBC alone. If you make them state how much they are | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
paying people, all companies should do that. The BBC is the best TV | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
channel in this country. It is admired worldwide. John, if it inti' | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
broke, don't fix it. -- ain't broke. Violated, humiliated | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
and left feeling guilty. These are the words of victims | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
of revenge porn who've spoken to our programme | :35:43. | :35:44. | |
after discovering their photos All three victims knew | :35:45. | :35:46. | |
the perpetrator, Olly Whiting - Olly posted innocent photos | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
from their social media profiles onto a site used | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
for sexual gratification. When he was arrested, | :35:54. | :35:56. | |
Olly admitted his crime but was released with a caution | :35:57. | :35:59. | |
because it was his first offence His victims were frustrated | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
at the police's decision and took to social media | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
to voice their outrage. Their post went viral | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
and Sussex Police has now Our reporter Jean Mackenzie has | :36:11. | :36:12. | |
talked to three of his victims about the effect it's had | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
on their life. Please be warned, the following film | :36:18. | :36:19. | |
contains some graphic Nicky, you were the first to find | :36:20. | :36:34. | |
out what Olly had done with these pictures. What did you find? There | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
was quite a lot I found. There were pictures of myself and the girls | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
here. Basically profile pictures taken from our Facebook, downloaded, | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
uploaded on to another site. They were saying all these terrible | :36:50. | :36:52. | |
things they wanted to do with us. Violent activities. Asking how much | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
they wanted to pay and everything. It was really disgusting. Can you | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
give me some examples? One said, I would love to beat her. Something | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
like slit her throat. So when you saw the photos, | :37:07. | :37:31. | |
what did you think? I could not believe that these | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
things have gone online. And then when I started to realise | :37:35. | :37:46. | |
what it was, I was angry, I was upset, I was confused | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
and I realise my daughter I was scared to tell my partner | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
that his little girl was on there, For some reason, I actually felt | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
ashamed, even though You had the same, it was Nikki that | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
alerted you to it, Charlotte. What did you find of yourself | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
on the site? Just normal pictures of me, | :38:05. | :38:06. | |
just selfies I'd taken in my friend's car, | :38:07. | :38:08. | |
just normal pictures With, you know, captions saying | :38:09. | :38:10. | |
how much would you pay, ?100 to rape her, ?50 | :38:11. | :38:13. | |
to make her pregnant, How did it impact you to hear | :38:14. | :38:15. | |
somebody that you knew as a friend, saying those things about you, | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
asking people to do those I kind of was in disbelief, | :38:21. | :38:22. | |
to start off with. I didn't want to believe | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
that he had done that. I was questioning Nikki a lot, | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
to make sure she definitely knew And then, obviously, | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
once he had gone to the police and admitted it, that kind | :38:32. | :38:34. | |
of finalised it for me. And Charley, the same happening | :38:35. | :38:36. | |
to you, an added edge, So it's not something you expect | :38:37. | :38:49. | |
to hear on a quiet evening. To know that your own brother can, | :38:50. | :38:58. | |
one, have those thoughts, but then write that on a website | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
to demoralise you in front And he had written the same sexually | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
violent things under your pictures? He said he wanted to break my nose, | :39:08. | :39:14. | |
throw me onto the bed and rape me, get me pregnant to remind me | :39:15. | :39:21. | |
of the day he raped me, and just And also putting photos of me, | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
in my school uniform, when I was only 16 years old, | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
and writing disgusting Could you believe that was your | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
brother who had done that? I thought, this isn't | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
Olly, I know Olly. But the more it went on, | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
he was named and it kind of settled in then that maybe I didn't know him | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
as well as I thought I did. Did any of you ever think | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
he had this in him? Did you see it coming, | :39:53. | :39:55. | |
or was it a total shock? He was such a likeable person, | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
so bubbly, easy to talk to, that you never would have | :39:59. | :40:05. | |
believed he had this in him. So you were the first | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
to report him to the police. They were, like, "He's not | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
really your friend, is he?" "It doesn't sound | :40:14. | :40:21. | |
like he's your friend." "Maybe you should just block him | :40:22. | :40:23. | |
and report him to Facebook?" And I was, like, well, | :40:24. | :40:25. | |
I don't think Facebook It's not the problem | :40:26. | :40:27. | |
that they are on Facebook, it's the problem that they have been | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
taken from Facebook It just felt like I had been fobbed | :40:31. | :40:33. | |
off and told, like a teacher says to a kid, just | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
ignore him, it'll go away. Didn't know about revenge porn | :40:39. | :40:41. | |
as a crime when you did report it? Yes, that's why I thought, | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
I can definitely report it The girl was, like, "Oh, | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
yeah, we have your report here. But I'll just take more | :40:50. | :40:55. | |
details from you." She gave me a crime reference number | :40:56. | :40:57. | |
and then got back to me ten minutes later, "Actually, it's not | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
really a crime, it's You should be looking | :41:02. | :41:03. | |
to getting a solicitor." I was, like, OK, I'll | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
get a solicitor. Got a solicitor and they said, | :41:07. | :41:08. | |
"It's more of a criminal case, the police should be | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
dealing with it." So I thought, no-one's | :41:12. | :41:13. | |
going to help me. How did you feel, Charley, | :41:14. | :41:15. | |
how did you feel when you heard It's not as if they were just | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
put on a porn website, just photos, it was what he had | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
written that was more Having a person walk free and be | :41:25. | :41:27. | |
able to get on with their life, maybe meet someone one day, | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
and know nothing about it, They, "It's OK, because he deleted | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
the pictures of you off his I said it's not OK, that is not OK | :41:36. | :41:44. | |
that they have been deleted Why do you think that it wasn't | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
taken more seriously? Because he hadn't physically done | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
anything, I think. Is that the issue, do you think, | :41:57. | :41:58. | |
that revenge porn is a new crime, it has only been enforced | :41:59. | :42:06. | |
for a year, police forces don't know Yeah, it's like there's not enough | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
knowledge within this area. Which is a shame, really, | :42:10. | :42:18. | |
because now cases like this are not One of the issues is that none | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
of the pictures of you three were sexually explicit | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
in their nature. You were not naked, they were just | :42:29. | :42:30. | |
social media photos. I know he did upload some naked | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
photos of other girls. Does that make a difference | :42:35. | :42:37. | |
in your eyes, Nikki? I think it makes a difference | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
for us, justice-wise, because we are in that weird | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
catchment, they are not naked, so he can't get done for putting | :42:46. | :42:48. | |
naked photos of us online. They are ones we have | :42:49. | :42:51. | |
uploaded to a public forum, so you want anybody to see them, | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
that the way he has treated them, In a way, it has made it harder | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
to fight our case. At the same time, people | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
just hear revenge porn, and they think we have sent | :43:05. | :43:06. | |
photos of us to him, nude. I'm in a rollneck | :43:07. | :43:09. | |
in one of my photos. Do you feel, Charley, | :43:10. | :43:12. | |
as violated as if somebody had put Because he has made those innocent | :43:13. | :43:19. | |
pictures, now every time I look at them, | :43:20. | :43:27. | |
that is all I can of. Sussex Police said, | :43:28. | :43:29. | |
when I look at this, that a few of the reasons | :43:30. | :43:39. | |
they just gave him a caution was that he had shown remorse and, | :43:40. | :43:42. | |
also, that he had deleted It didn't change my opinion | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
on the whole situation at all. If anything, I just thought | :43:46. | :43:55. | |
it was more of a joke situation that that is how they can just let him | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
get away with it, just It doesn't matter that they are | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
being viewed by thousands of men, Actually in the year that revenge | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
porn has been a crime, the majority of cases have ended | :44:09. | :44:25. | |
in no action being taken. Do you think this is still seen | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
as something people can get away with, and something | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
that girls like you We looked at as if we are just | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
being silly, taking it to the extremes, | :44:38. | :44:52. | |
taking it too personally. Charley, what do you think needs | :44:53. | :44:54. | |
to happen to support girls People need to be aware | :44:55. | :44:56. | |
that there are so many different types of revenge porn, it can go | :44:57. | :45:03. | |
from innocent photos, like us, As we're are not actually naked, | :45:04. | :45:05. | |
nobody takes it seriously. It needs to be discussed | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
and the police need to be more aware It's my brother, I've lost part | :45:11. | :45:14. | |
of my family now. It's just been brushed off | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
as if we are just overreacting. Police have said that they are going | :45:19. | :45:26. | |
to look again at your case. It's good that it's | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
going to get reviewed. But it is just sad that it had | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
to take our own action before I don't think that, if we weren't | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
as confident as we are, if we weren't as headstrong | :45:38. | :45:43. | |
that we were going to do this and go for it, I think we would really | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
struggle to get the justice Sussex police have given us | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
the following response: "We recognise the nature | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
of the captions and comments used We took the decision to issue | :45:56. | :45:57. | |
a caution based on all the factors available to us, including | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
the offender's remorse, the nature of the offences | :46:04. | :46:04. | |
and the likelihood of the caution being effective | :46:05. | :46:06. | |
in preventing reoffending. It's important to note that | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
while two of the images were of a sexual nature, | :46:12. | :46:14. | |
the others were taken from social media and were neither | :46:15. | :46:16. | |
explicit nor indecent. This decision fits | :46:17. | :46:18. | |
the national framework We have contacted the website | :46:19. | :46:19. | |
to request the images be removed." Four days, 500 athletes, a dozen | :46:20. | :46:33. | |
events, a first lady and a Prince - today marks the final day | :46:34. | :46:36. | |
of the Invictus Games. Founded by Prince Harry in 2014, | :46:37. | :46:38. | |
the games are open to all wounded, injured and sick serving | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
personnel and veterans. The competitive spirit has been high | :46:42. | :46:44. | |
from the start with this video of the Queen and her | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
grandson going viral. The American man here, he was | :46:48. | :47:10. | |
incredibly fast. Oh, a message. It's from the shelves. How very amusing. | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
Shall we watch it together? -- it's from Michelle. Remember when you | :47:15. | :47:22. | |
told us to bring it up the Invictus Games? Careful what you wish for! | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
Really? Please! ! Well, Prince Harry got a surprise | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
when he presented the 100 metre freestyle gold swimming medal | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
to an American soldier. After the Prince placed | :47:35. | :47:36. | |
the medal around the neck of Sergeant Elizabeth Marks, | :47:37. | :47:38. | |
she asked him to return it to Papworth Hospital in Cambridge, | :47:39. | :47:40. | |
as a thank you for saving her life. Sergeant Marks was treated | :47:41. | :47:43. | |
there on the eve of the first games in 2014 in London, | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
when she collapsed with She won all four swimming events | :47:48. | :47:49. | |
she entered at this year's games. The UK has sent a team of 110 | :47:50. | :48:00. | |
to Orlando, Florida and we can speak now to Petty Officer Sean Gaffney, | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
who has won four medals. You are proudly wearing them, | :48:05. | :48:12. | |
congratulations. Good morning, thank you. That is a great achievement for | :48:13. | :48:19. | |
you. Tell us how important these games are to you? Immeasurably | :48:20. | :48:29. | |
important. It is a huge honour to be here, competing, not only for my | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
country, but with fellow servicemen from around the world who have | :48:34. | :48:36. | |
overcome such huge obstacles to be here. It is not just the games, it | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
is being in the hotel with them, it is relaxing by the pool with them. | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
It is bringing a whole family together. What have you overcome, | :48:47. | :48:52. | |
what were your injuries? I was initially injured in 1999. I was | :48:53. | :49:00. | |
training to be part of a group that were computing at Earls Court. | :49:01. | :49:03. | |
Unfortunately, I have a sporting injury on my foot. After four | :49:04. | :49:11. | |
months, it had to be removed due to septicaemia. Then it was a fight to | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
get fit enough to stay serving with the Royal Navy and continue on | :49:18. | :49:20. | |
operational deployments around the world. The term Invictus means | :49:21. | :49:32. | |
unconquered, you had your foot amputated and had cancer in the same | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
12 months and it didn't beat you? Invictus sums it up perfectly. I | :49:39. | :49:45. | |
know it only came along in 2014, thanks to Prince Harry, but the idea | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
of being unbeaten, not stopping or giving up the fight, it would never | :49:51. | :49:57. | |
occur to me. When I had my accident, being surrounded by the service | :49:58. | :50:03. | |
meant that I had been, the only way was to fight on. What does it mean | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
for you and everybody else that Prince Harry is doing this, that he | :50:08. | :50:12. | |
is getting behind you guys and sending out a very powerful message | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
about what you can do? Sorry, could you say that again? What does it | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
mean to you and everybody else that Prince Harry has done this and is | :50:22. | :50:24. | |
getting behind you all in such a public way, saying, look what these | :50:25. | :50:35. | |
people can do? Again, it is... Without Prince Harry, we would not | :50:36. | :50:38. | |
be sat here, without his drive, ambition and passion for the | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
servicemen, and he is a servicemen, without him, without his background, | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
without his knowledge of who we are and what were capable of, this would | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
not happen. Did have a moment when you lost your foot, when you feared | :50:55. | :50:57. | |
that your career in the military might be over? I was about 28 years | :50:58. | :51:14. | |
of age, full of foolish Corrado. -- foolish bravado. I found out that | :51:15. | :51:22. | |
staying in the Navy with one leg, it is not as romantic as it seems, and | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
it requires some work. Luckily, they gave me the chance to prove that I | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
could do it. They let me stay and I had a full and fantastic career | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
since. Well done to you. Thanks for joining us. Enjoy the rest of the | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
games. Almost over, but a bit more to enjoy. Thank you. | :51:40. | :51:45. | |
Let's talk about the BBC. What do you want from the BBC and how should | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
be run? Later this morning, the government will reveal how it thinks | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
a future BBC should look. One thing being suggested is that any stars | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
earning more than ?450,000 should be named and their salaries made | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
public, which could include people like Gary Lineker and Graham Norton. | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
Culture Secretary John Whittingdale is also expected to announce plans | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
to abolish the BBC Trust, the people that govern the BBC, and replace it | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
with a new board. The proposals are also expected to say the licence fee | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
will continue for at least another 11 years. In future, only those who | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
pay the licence fee will be able to use BBC iPlayer. One of the people | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
whose salaries would be published is Chris Evans. In the last few minutes | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
he was asked how he would feel. I don't have an opinion either way, if | :52:37. | :52:40. | |
it is, it is, if it isn't, it isn't. It is nothing to do with me, I do | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
what I do, I get paid what I get paid, I love my job. My dad was a | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
wages clerk, my mother was a nurse, my sister was a teacher, my brother | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
is a nurse, they work in the real world. We know none of them get paid | :52:54. | :52:57. | |
what they should get paid. Show business is ridiculous. If you are | :52:58. | :53:04. | |
doing a job where the end result is that you make money for another | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
company, then that can be reflected in your wages. But a lot of people, | :53:08. | :53:15. | |
a lot of BBC shows are brilliant because of the way they are | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
produced, the way they are written, the way they are filmed. It is not | :53:20. | :53:25. | |
really about who hosts them. You could get a lot of people to host | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
them and the shows would still be successful because the base product | :53:30. | :53:30. | |
is of such quality. Would you say that salaries like he | :53:31. | :53:46. | |
was not helping the case of the BBC? Again, that is a management thing, a | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
long-term, philosophical thing. I'm being very honest, my thought | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
process, I haven't got there yet, I can only deal with what I think. I | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
have always had an opinion about show business. I've been in | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
negotiations with celebrities about how much they get paid, because I | :54:04. | :54:08. | |
produce programmes. I often say, why are we paying them this much, why | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
can't we get to be else? Are you worried your salary will go down? Do | :54:14. | :54:20. | |
I look worried? No, I am not worried, I love my job and I don't | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
do it for the money, I do it because I love it and I think it makes a | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
little bit of a difference, not much as a difference as some other | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
people's jobs, but I think it helps a little bit. The BBC is worried | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
that people like you will get poached if salaries are disclosed, | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
what you think about that? I do my job here because I think it is the | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
best place to do what I do for a living. Anybody could offer me... It | :54:45. | :54:47. | |
is not a money thing, I don't come to work for it. Lets talk to Chris | :54:48. | :54:55. | |
Curtis, the editor of Broadcast Magazine. Talking there about the | :54:56. | :54:58. | |
fact that his salary is likely to be published, what do you think about | :54:59. | :55:03. | |
the salaries and the fact that the level is ?450,000? Potentially | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
awkward for the BBC, if you think about any normal working | :55:08. | :55:10. | |
environment, salaries are closely guarded. The BBC already reveals how | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
much it pays senior staff, the director general, the controllers of | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
different channels etc. Those figures are out in the public | :55:20. | :55:26. | |
domain. They have always resisted talent salaries being published. It | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
can be awkward, it could lead to people being poached. It could lead | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
to people to drive salaries down. The BBC is nervous about anything | :55:35. | :55:37. | |
that might make it harder for them to secure the right people to front | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
the shows. What you think about the fact it has been pegged at that | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
level, other salaries are published at 150,000? Yes, talent pay in | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
television, entertainment in general, is really high. There are | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
other areas where it is high. Footballers earn more than managers | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
do. Film stars earn more than the directors do. In this case, | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
on-screen talent will earn more than the people that run the BBC. I think | :56:07. | :56:14. | |
that there is no... All of this at the moment is to do with the | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
relation that the BBC has to the commercial sector. Part of it is to | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
try and ensure that the BBC is paying stars and appropriate amount | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
of money, compared to the commercial sector. The public will not have | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
visibility of the commercial sector. Let's talk about governance of the | :56:33. | :56:37. | |
BBC and the BBC trust, the body that oversees the BBC if anybody | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
complains, the BBC trust looks at those issues. A new body which will | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
have some Government appointees on it, we're not sure at the moment | :56:46. | :56:48. | |
what the level would be, possibly 50%. What do you think? That is a | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
very controversial issue. The BBC Trust has been in existence for the | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
existence of this -- duration of this charter. There is not a huge | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
amount of support for it. It's incredibly likely it will be | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
disbanded. Is it something the public care about particularly? I | :57:09. | :57:11. | |
don't think the public care too much about which organisation regulates | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
the BBC, but they wanted to be regulated properly. You were really | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
have comments earlier. There is a vast range of public opinion. By and | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
large, the independent research that is done, independent and by the BBC, | :57:24. | :57:31. | |
there is a lot of latent goodwill, generally, the public likes what the | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
BBC does. But it has to be held accountable, to make sure that it is | :57:36. | :57:40. | |
spending its money wisely. The Trust has fallen between two stools, | :57:41. | :57:45. | |
between cheerleader and regulator. So it wants a unitary board, which | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
has a more hands-on role in holding BBC managers to account, that looks | :57:52. | :57:56. | |
like the route they will go down. But who sits on it? What is their | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
experience, their credentials? Trying to judge programme's' | :58:01. | :58:09. | |
distinctiveness, scheduling, those things require nuance. We are | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
heading fast to the moment when the Culture Secretary starts to speak. | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
We can take a peek inside the Commons. He is not there yet. | :58:17. | :58:25. | |
Coverage is coming up on Bbc Newsroom Live. Have a lovely | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
afternoon. Bye-bye. | :58:30. | :58:31. |