12/05/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


12/05/2016

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Hello it's Thursday, it's nine o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling,

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in for Victoria, welcome to the programme

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Our top story today - The BBC's future should

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become clearer today, when the culture secretary reveals

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The licence fee will continue, and the Trust which governs

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What's it all mean for you, the viewers and listeners?

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We'll hear from lovers and haters of the BBC.

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Also coming up on Thursday's programme, a man who admitted

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uploading pictures of his sister and other women onto porn websites,

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causing them humiliation and distress, got a police caution.

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His victims have told us they don't think that's enough.

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It's not as if they were just put on a porn website, just photos,

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it was what he'd written that was more disturbing

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than anything, I mean, having a person walk free and be

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able to get on with their life, and maybe meet someone one day,

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and them know absolutely nothing about it, that's just scary really.

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They said, you know, it's OK, because he's deleted the pictures

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of you off his phone in front of us, so it's OK, and I was like,

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well, it's not OK, that's not OK that they've just been deleted,

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We will have that full story for you at a quarter to ten.

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And a little later, how much should we worry about

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The Prime Minister thinks we should and is hosting a conference of more

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One of them is Afghanistan, described by David Cameron

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Hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning.

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We already getting lots of comments from you about our top story today,

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the future of the BBC. Matt on Facebook says it is time for the

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licence fee to go. The lavish BBC spending of our money must be

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curbed, but is funny to see that the BBC will be given the power for

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those who watch catch-up TV to pay Manny now. And a man on Twitter says

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the Conservatives seem to hate the two things that the British public

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admirer, the BBC and the NHS. we're talking about this morning -

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use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and If you text,

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you will be charged at the standard How the BBC is governed,

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the length of the licence fee and more information

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about what its top stars earn will all be set out in a government

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announcement on the corporation's But it looks like controversial

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ideas, like restricting when the BBC should show some of its most popular

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programmes, have been shelved. Here's our Media Correspondent,

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David Sillito. The BBC is, for most of us,

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part of daily life, but its charter only lasts for ten years at a time,

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giving the government a chance to look at how it's run,

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how it's funded, and, What I would like to happen is for

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something to be bold and radical, I would like to see the licence fee

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scrapped, I think it has been holding back the BBC,

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it has been overtaken by Sky, and one day the BBC will realise

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it is actually holding them back. Radio, TV and online

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was all under review. The results are the licence fee

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stays for the next 11 years, but the Trust that governs

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the BBC will be replaced. If you want to complain

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about the BBC in future, the final referee will be

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the independent regulator, Stars' salaries will be made public,

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but not the exact amount, all we will know is that it's more

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than ?450,000, and there will be a new board running

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the BBC day-to-day. The debate here is who will be on

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it. At least half will be from the BBC,

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but questions have been raised If we are going to have a Board

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of Directors, which again is a good idea, the real essential is that

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that Board of Directors It should not be appointed

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by the government, it should be appointed by an independent

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commission, and they should That is what would give

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them their authority. However, suggestions

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that the government would intervene over when the BBC could show

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its most popular programmes, or hand licence fee money to other

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broadcasters, have not made it Plenty more on that story at 9.15 -

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but right now, Annita is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary

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of the rest of the day's news. For the first time, foreign

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companies that already have, or want to buy, property in the UK

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will have to reveal That's just one of the measures

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being announced by David Cameron today at an international

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conference to fight global It's billed as the first

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of its kind, and it's already caused controversy before it's started,

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with the Prime Minister describing Nigeria and Afghanistan

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as "fantastically corrupt". David Cameron has already ensured

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his anti-corruption summit has grabbed the headlines, after his

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unguarded remarks about some of those attending.

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Today, he will try to gloss over that embarrassment, starting with a

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new announcement on stopping UK property being bought with dirty

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money. He is expected to announce that no foreign companies will be

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able to purchase property here, unless it's clear who is the overall

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tone of the enterprise. Crucially, though, Mr Cameron hasn't yet been

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able to persuade the UK linked tax havens, such as the Cayman islands

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and the British Virgin Islands, to embrace the same spirit of

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transparency, and campaigners rather wish he would fix that problem

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before he lectures others. There are some countries in the world that are

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fantastically corrupt, there were also places like the overseas

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territories, which have been fantastically obliging to the

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corrupt from those countries. So as long as we are focusing on both

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sides of that coin, then we have a chance of getting a really important

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result from this summit. Last month's release of the Panama Papers

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revealed just how many anonymous shell companies are used by the

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world's elite to hide away wealth from public view, so David Cameron

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may get some credit for calling this summit in the first place, but the

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question remains can he put the UK's own treasure islands in order too?

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And we'll be discussing this issue later in the programme with a legal

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David Cameron will NOT take part in any EU referendum TV debates

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with Boris Johnson or other fellow Conservatives,

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Number 10 say they do not want the campaign to turn into merely

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Meanwhile, Vote Leave - the official out campaign -

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has accused ITV of taking sides in the referendum battle

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after the broadcaster excluded them from a major TV debate and instead

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invited Nigel Farage to represent those who want to leave the EU.

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Norman Smith in Westminster, that late-night e-mail from vote leave

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has provoked quite the row this morning. It has prompted an

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explosive row, not just between the Leave campaign and ITV, but within

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the Brexit campaign. With claims by Nigel Farage, who has been invited

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to take part in that critical ITV debate, but the official leave aside

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her try to stop him going on that show and threatening legal action.

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Never mind the warning that if the official representatives of the

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Leave campaign, Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, were not allowed to

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take part that would be consequences for ITV, unidentified consequences,

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that it has exposed I think two things. One is the real Gulf

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rippling through the Leave side, but secondly, the concerns the official

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campaign have about the sort of impact Nigel Farage would have.

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Their fear that if he is allowed to present himself as the main face of

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the Brexit campaign, it will alienate many voters. Secondly,

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another huge row are erupting over David Cameron's decision not to take

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part or not to debate against Boris Johnson. Mr Johnson's friends saying

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this morning, look, he stands ready to debate against David Cameron. It

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is not up to David Cameron to decide who he will choose to debate

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against. Boris Johnson is one of the leading figures of the official

:09:03.:09:05.

Leave campaign, he should be prepared to debate against him.

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A British man has been arrested on suspicion of killing his

:09:09.:09:11.

wife and mother-in-law, after they were found dead

:09:12.:09:12.

Dave McCann, who's 49, allegedly stabbed his wife

:09:13.:09:15.

and her mother to death, before threatening his sister-in-law.

:09:16.:09:18.

It's believed that he forced his way into the family home on Saturday -

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before going into hiding for four days at a homeless

:09:22.:09:24.

Two pieces of debris found on beaches in Mauritius

:09:25.:09:31.

and South Africa almost certainly came from the Malaysia Airlines

:09:32.:09:34.

flight MH370, according to officials in Malaysia.

:09:35.:09:38.

It's the latest development in efforts to solve the mystery

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of the aircraft, which went missing in March 2014.

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The plane was flying from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing,

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and had 239 people on board, when it vanished.

:09:46.:10:01.

A new report says girls born this year will be 75 per cent more likely

:10:02.:10:04.

to study for a degree than their male classmates -

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unless action is taken to address the growing university gender gap.

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The study - from the Higher Education Policy Institute -

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also says white boys from poorer backgrounds are drastically

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Here's our Education Correspondent Robert Piggott.

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A lower proportion of students entering universities and colleges

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This year, almost 100,000 fewer men than women applied for places,

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and eight out of ten higher education institutions now

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Girls are already 35% more likely to go to university than boys,

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but if the current trend continues unabated, that will rise to 75%.

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A failure to tackle the gap would undermine attempts

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Disadvantaged white boys have the worst record.

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Fewer than nine in a hundred go to university.

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The report said the education system was letting boys down,

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and suggested targeting them with recruitment campaigns, showing

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It is said one reason for the gender difference could be that careers

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traditionally chosen by women, such as nursing and teaching,

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increasingly demand full degrees, but across most of the developed

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world, recent trends in higher education have left male

:11:19.:11:20.

The universities minister, Jo Johnson, said recent guidance

:11:21.:11:29.

to universities called for special help for white boys

:11:30.:11:31.

The Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump appears

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to have softened his stance on his proposal for a temporary ban

:11:43.:11:44.

During his campaign, Mr Trump had said the

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But in an interview with Fox News, Mr Trump claimed it was

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The proposed ban has been widely criticised in the US and abroad.

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A 23-year-old man has been charged with the murder of a soldier in

:12:10.:12:15.

Brecon, in mid Wales. Private Matthew Boyd from the Royal

:12:16.:12:19.

Gibraltar Regiment disappeared after leaving a pub, and was found

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unconscious early on Sunday morning. He died later in hospital. A

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22-year-old man has also been charged with affray.

:12:27.:12:29.

A company that sent a temp home from work for refusing to wear high

:12:30.:12:32.

heels, has changed its policy, making it clear flat

:12:33.:12:35.

Nicola Thorp was told she had to wear heels of between two

:12:36.:12:38.

and four inches for a job as a receptionist in London.

:12:39.:12:41.

More than 60,000 people have signed a petition in protest.

:12:42.:12:44.

A car has fallen into a large hole in South East London.

:12:45.:12:47.

No-one was inside the people carrier when it was discovered by police

:12:48.:12:50.

The road has since been closed and Greenwich

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council says it is urgently investigating the matter.

:12:58.:12:59.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30.

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We are going to be talking about the BBC, how it is run, the licence fee,

:13:04.:13:10.

star pay. That is no what you think about that. We have a discussion

:13:11.:13:13.

coming up after the sport. use the hashtag #victorialive

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and If you text, you will be charged Let's catch up with the sport with

:13:18.:13:20.

Huw. Things have been decided, Sunderland

:13:21.:13:32.

staying up but Newcastle go down. The Sunderland boss Sam Allardyce is

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calling on the club to forget the dark days of their relegation

:13:38.:13:41.

struggles, after guaranteeing their Premiership survival with a 3-0 win

:13:42.:13:47.

last night. When you are fighting survival, this is how you want to

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finish, the Allardyce said his squad had come

:13:50.:14:00.

through the tough times stronger and stronger. For the rest of the lads

:14:01.:14:08.

and the families, it is a terrific effort by us all. It has paid off in

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the end. All of the hard work we have put in, not just me as a

:14:13.:14:17.

manager but all the backroom staff, we have put everything together, it

:14:18.:14:21.

has finally paid off. In the end everything has turned out nice and

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Rosie, as they say. Well, that win for Big Sam's men

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meant Norwich were relegated, despite their win last night -

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as were Newcastle United. Norwich go straight back down

:14:31.:14:32.

but for Newcastle there are much bigger questions -

:14:33.:14:35.

manager Rafael Benitez will now have the option to leave the club,

:14:36.:14:37.

and after they spent ?80 million in the January

:14:38.:14:39.

transfer window alone, Well, Mark Douglas joins us now -

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he's the Newcastle United editor for the Chronicle and Journal

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newspapers in the city. A difficult time, a great result for

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Newcastle but what makes the Newcastle? Yes, I think the problem

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for Newcastle is there are so many unanswered questions. We have said

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all season that this looked likely. The best they have been all season

:15:07.:15:10.

is 11th, they spent most of their season in the bottom three but we

:15:11.:15:13.

have never really had a clear sense that the board really knew the

:15:14.:15:17.

severity of the situation they found themselves in. Just two to three

:15:18.:15:22.

months ago there was a fans forum, in which they said they were still

:15:23.:15:25.

confident of staying up. They still had Steve McClaren as manager. They

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subsequently went out and got Rafa Benitez. There was an improvement,

:15:30.:15:34.

but it was too little, too late. For Newcastle United, the last three

:15:35.:15:37.

years they have been taking the wrong decisions. It would be great

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if Rafa Benitez stayed at Newcastle, especially for their fans. Do you

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think he will, and if not, who is next? The problem with Rafa Benitez

:15:46.:15:51.

staying at Newcastle United is that he will want to turn Newcastle

:15:52.:15:55.

United into a force in the Premier League, which is what we were

:15:56.:15:58.

hearing two to three months ago. The next question he would ask of the

:15:59.:16:02.

board is how do we kick on from here and get into the Champions League?

:16:03.:16:05.

It is not easy to do that when you are in the division below, the

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Division 1 would have thought Rafa Benitez would never have thought of

:16:10.:16:12.

himself managing in. But there is a little bit of hope, in that he has

:16:13.:16:16.

certainly been won over by the easy as towards him by Newcastle fans. I

:16:17.:16:21.

do think there is a glimmer of hope there, but he will want massive

:16:22.:16:25.

assurances of money and being able to turn the club around the way he

:16:26.:16:28.

wants. Because at the moment there is a lot of competing people at

:16:29.:16:30.

Newcastle. How much response ability will Mike

:16:31.:16:44.

Ashley taken this situation? It is on his head. He said we will make

:16:45.:16:48.

our own luck, we are going to sort things out, we have sorted this out

:16:49.:16:54.

financially but now we have to do it on the pitch, he has put people into

:16:55.:17:12.

positions of authority, like Lee Charnley, we were ninth when he was

:17:13.:17:15.

brought in, and we are now relegated. But it comes back to Mike

:17:16.:17:20.

Ashley, he has taken the wrong decisions, he has turned the club

:17:21.:17:24.

into a situation where it feels antagonistic towards its own fans,

:17:25.:17:30.

to the media, to its own players, we have seen the Gutierrez tribunal

:17:31.:17:34.

result as well. It has got to be Mike Ashley who has got to take the

:17:35.:17:39.

blame. Hopefully, if Rafa Benitez can stay, there might be some

:17:40.:17:42.

optimism. But it feels a long way away at the moment. Thanks very much

:17:43.:17:47.

for joining us. That is all the sport for now.

:17:48.:17:53.

What do you want from the BBC and how should it be run?

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Well, later this morning the Government will reveal how

:17:57.:17:59.

it thinks a future BBC should look and be run.

:18:00.:18:01.

One thing that's being suggested is that any stars earning more

:18:02.:18:04.

than 450,000 should be named and their salaries made public.

:18:05.:18:06.

This could include people like Gary Lineker and Graham Norton.

:18:07.:18:09.

The Culture Secretary John Whittingdale is also expected

:18:10.:18:11.

to announce plans to abolish the BBC Trust, the people who govern

:18:12.:18:14.

the BBC, and replace it with a new board.

:18:15.:18:20.

The proposals are also expected to say the licence fee will continue

:18:21.:18:22.

for at least another 11 years, and in future, only those who pay

:18:23.:18:26.

the licence fee will be able to use the BBC iPlayer.

:18:27.:18:31.

Let's talk now to Baroness Tessa Jowell, Labour's Culture Secretary

:18:32.:18:34.

Here in the studio, Peter Bone, Conservative MP, Gail Renard,

:18:35.:18:42.

Chair of the Writers Guild of Great Britain, Roger Laughton,

:18:43.:18:46.

who is a former senior BBC and ITV executive,

:18:47.:18:49.

Pamela Chabba, a retired teacher who feels the BBC

:18:50.:18:57.

We are also joined by Ryan Bourne, who has argued the BBC is not fit

:18:58.:19:02.

for purpose and should be privatised, commercially.

:19:03.:19:09.

David Sillitoe is also here. David, first, outline what we are

:19:10.:19:20.

expecting. There has been so much talk about what might be in it, but

:19:21.:19:23.

a lot of what was anticipated, it looks like it is not going to be

:19:24.:19:28.

correct? I've had phone calls for several nights, saying, is this

:19:29.:19:32.

true, the BBC will be told it cannot run Strictly Come Dancing on a

:19:33.:19:38.

Saturday night, that we will see the pay of every star paid more than

:19:39.:19:43.

?150,000, that there are going to be all sorts of these things, top

:19:44.:19:49.

slicing, will money be handed a way to fund other broadcasters,

:19:50.:19:51.

children's television? None But the things people expected will

:19:52.:20:04.

happen, the Trust will be abolished, if you complain and do not think the

:20:05.:20:09.

BBC is accurate, the final referee will be the government 's

:20:10.:20:12.

independent regulator, Ofcom. A new regulatory board will meet the

:20:13.:20:16.

day-to-day running of the BBC will be run by a new board of directors,

:20:17.:20:20.

headed by the chairman of the BBC, the director-general, the key issue

:20:21.:20:25.

is how many of those directors will be appointed by the government. We

:20:26.:20:31.

have been told in the White Paper that the staff will be BBC

:20:32.:20:36.

appointments, I'm sure that'll be an area of and discussion. White Paper,

:20:37.:20:42.

explained that isn't when this will happen. White Paper is the

:20:43.:20:45.

governments proposals for their final negotiations the charter. It

:20:46.:20:51.

is all signed in the autumn sometime, at the Privy Council. An

:20:52.:20:56.

arcane institution. Not the House of Commons or the House of Lords.

:20:57.:21:00.

Certainly a debate, they don't get a vote on it in Parliament.

:21:01.:21:03.

Essentially a debate between government and the BBC. This is a

:21:04.:21:09.

position document, this is what the government thinks should happen to

:21:10.:21:16.

the BBC. Lets it open to the panel. First to you, Tessa Jowell, you'll

:21:17.:21:19.

have had experience of being involved in these type of

:21:20.:21:23.

discussions, what are you expecting and hoping for, from today and what

:21:24.:21:26.

do you think about what you have heard? David Sillito has outlined

:21:27.:21:37.

well what is likely to be in the paper. When we look at the fine

:21:38.:21:41.

detail, reassurance or apprehension will be in the fine detail. I think

:21:42.:21:46.

there are three tests that these proposals have to meet. One of them

:21:47.:21:53.

is, will the BBC really be independent? I have grave misgivings

:21:54.:21:56.

about the establishment of the unitary board to run the BBC, with a

:21:57.:22:02.

substantial number of people appointed by it government. The

:22:03.:22:08.

difference with the BBC trust was that the trust was established

:22:09.:22:15.

expressly to represent the interests of the licence fee payer. That is

:22:16.:22:21.

the first issue. On that, in terms of numbers, if it was half of the

:22:22.:22:24.

work would that be acceptable, you feel there should be no them and

:22:25.:22:30.

appointments -- if it was half, or fewer. I think it depends less on

:22:31.:22:35.

the numbers and more on the job that the nonexecutive directors intends

:22:36.:22:40.

to do. I hope that it will be made absolutely clear that the

:22:41.:22:44.

nonexecutive directors on this board will be, if you like, guardians of

:22:45.:22:51.

the licence fee payers interests. The risk is that all that happens is

:22:52.:22:57.

that we recreate the BBC governors, which became discredited by the

:22:58.:23:03.

extent to which their principal and primary loyalty was to the BBC

:23:04.:23:08.

rather than to the public will finance the BBC. So safeguarding

:23:09.:23:15.

independence, critical capacity, it is the licence fee payer being well

:23:16.:23:19.

served? That should be the job of the independent directors on this

:23:20.:23:26.

proposed new board. Before you come to the second issue let's talk about

:23:27.:23:31.

the board first with everyone. There are lots of issues to get around.

:23:32.:23:38.

Bill Cash? First, I think these reforms are well overdue. Secondly,

:23:39.:23:43.

the fact is that the BBC has access to and has around ?5.3 billion a

:23:44.:23:49.

year. The whole of the House of Commons and the House of Lords

:23:50.:23:53.

together, the whole of our democracy is only 500 million, to put that

:23:54.:23:58.

into contracts. Fact is that ?3.7 billion of that comes from the

:23:59.:24:02.

taxpayer, and I think that is the beginning of the argument because of

:24:03.:24:06.

that amount of money is paid for either taxpayer, then it is

:24:07.:24:09.

essential that you have complete impartiality. I very much agree that

:24:10.:24:15.

the BBC needs its independence but the question of how you get there is

:24:16.:24:20.

the real issue. As my European select committee has been

:24:21.:24:24.

investigating with its reports. What about the business of government

:24:25.:24:29.

appointees to the board? I think the government is entitled to have a

:24:30.:24:33.

limited number of people. I think the essence of independence will

:24:34.:24:36.

come from the people who are appointed. In other words how do you

:24:37.:24:41.

make the appointments and decide who should be there? I think I am right

:24:42.:24:46.

in saying that Ofcom have recently had quite a lot of BBC people

:24:47.:24:51.

imported into the Ofcom who other people who will take over the

:24:52.:24:56.

regulatory assessment of the BBC as compared to the Trust, which I think

:24:57.:24:59.

by common consent has been a failure. Even Rona Fairhead admitted

:25:00.:25:06.

it was not functioning properly. Anyone else with a strong view on

:25:07.:25:13.

this point? It's a numbers game with appointing a new government body or

:25:14.:25:17.

whatever because if you get that the chair of the BBC is appointed and

:25:18.:25:22.

the government, and then the checkpoints are director-general,

:25:23.:25:26.

what numbers are we talking about, who is appointing what? It will be

:25:27.:25:30.

very difficult, dangerous to have that many government people. They

:25:31.:25:37.

say not feel a numbers of government people are opposed to other

:25:38.:25:42.

appointees -- not fewer numbers but when you factor in one

:25:43.:25:45.

director-general and one chair, are the numbers that clean? Also there

:25:46.:25:50.

is a huge difference between state broadcasting and public broadcasting

:25:51.:25:56.

and this is public broadcasting. What do you think? The devil will be

:25:57.:25:59.

in the detail although we don't know the details yet! I think the correct

:26:00.:26:04.

decision has been made, to get rid of the BBC caption Trust. I see no

:26:05.:26:15.

reason why this should not work, in principle. That is the governance

:26:16.:26:19.

issue. Let's move to a story that has got the headlines, the issue of

:26:20.:26:25.

pay. Anyone want to dive in first? Perhaps someone who has not spoken

:26:26.:26:32.

yet? Victoria, you are a member of the viewing public. First I would

:26:33.:26:35.

like to say that I don't think any of the people on the board should be

:26:36.:26:39.

government appointees. I feel strongly about that. If we are going

:26:40.:26:45.

to have independence we do not need government people getting involved

:26:46.:26:50.

in the BBC. It should be truly independent. One thing that comes up

:26:51.:26:54.

time and again on social media is people fearing that the government

:26:55.:27:00.

is somehow meddling with our BBC, with the TV programming and also

:27:01.:27:05.

with the news and once we lose their faith, that's over. You cannot lose

:27:06.:27:09.

people's faith in the news. They need to know that it is independent.

:27:10.:27:14.

And so I don't think there should be any government appointees. It should

:27:15.:27:19.

be a board of independently appointed people, cross-party, if

:27:20.:27:23.

you like. I don't have a problem with Ofcom being involved. I am cool

:27:24.:27:30.

with that. They are independent, I think that's fine. When it comes to

:27:31.:27:34.

the salaries, what are we trying to achieve? All this will achieve is

:27:35.:27:42.

just to anger the public because honestly, the public have been

:27:43.:27:47.

subject to no wage increases, in fact wage decreases, and then they

:27:48.:27:54.

are going to see these fantastical salaries, we cannot deny, these

:27:55.:27:58.

people on high salaries. Although the thing about these people and the

:27:59.:28:02.

talent involved is, I can tell you, those people could walk out of the

:28:03.:28:06.

BBC tomorrow and they could cross the road to ITV and they would get

:28:07.:28:11.

double or triple that amount. So those people at the BBC because they

:28:12.:28:14.

choose to be there. They believe in what it stands for. We have one

:28:15.:28:20.

former BBC executive and one former ITV executive, is that true, Roger?

:28:21.:28:25.

Movement between the channels is less frequent than one might think.

:28:26.:28:32.

Features to be at the BBC! I take the view that we all pay for the BBC

:28:33.:28:37.

and the degree of scrutiny and openness is quite an important

:28:38.:28:43.

issue. Top civil servant salaries... Do you think that ?150,000 is the

:28:44.:28:50.

right level, there was talk about other salaries. I don't want to get

:28:51.:28:56.

into numbers because I'm not great on salary differentials. All I know

:28:57.:28:58.

is that the BBC is in the public domain and must expect a degree of

:28:59.:29:03.

scrutiny, given a compulsory licence fee that some other organisations

:29:04.:29:06.

might not have, the Public Accounts Committee can do a good job with the

:29:07.:29:11.

National Audit Office, particularly looking at the figures. There's been

:29:12.:29:14.

quite a contest for some years, I've taken part in it myself with some

:29:15.:29:22.

MPs, as you rightly say, tax payers money all licence payers money needs

:29:23.:29:26.

to be accounted for. On the counsel individuals I do not see why people

:29:27.:29:31.

should not see how much people, everyone knows how much earning

:29:32.:29:35.

public companies, and they are not in the public domain. What is so

:29:36.:29:41.

special? I would not set the level, I would not have one. Everyone knows

:29:42.:29:45.

what everyone else earns in almost every other sphere. I don't

:29:46.:29:50.

understand what is so special about the BBC. You were all nodding.

:29:51.:29:56.

Tessa? I agree with that and I think that transparency about this is good

:29:57.:30:00.

otherwise you get endless newspaper headlines which just plump for one

:30:01.:30:04.

figure which is usually millions, and it is much better actually that

:30:05.:30:10.

people know. Therefore I am in favour of publishing what talent is

:30:11.:30:16.

paid but the important thing is that the BBC is not but at a commercial

:30:17.:30:21.

disadvantage, and that by publishing what celebrity David Sillito is paid

:30:22.:30:32.

by contrast it will make it possible for other companies to up at and say

:30:33.:30:35.

we will give you more because we know what the BBC is offering you.

:30:36.:30:39.

This should be incumbent on all broadcasters to create a level

:30:40.:30:43.

playing field but it is right that the licence fee payer should know

:30:44.:30:47.

how much is going on getting highly talented people, celebrities, to

:30:48.:30:53.

take part in BBC programmes but it to be a level playing field. It

:30:54.:31:04.

works two ways because talent also includes writers and it would be

:31:05.:31:07.

good to publicise that, because whereas celebrities are highly paid

:31:08.:31:10.

I can assure you that the writers are not and in some cases they have

:31:11.:31:15.

to work for free within the BBC to do what are called trial scripts and

:31:16.:31:19.

all the rest, which means that they are writing to some of the major BBC

:31:20.:31:23.

shows and spending the time and doing it as professional writers and

:31:24.:31:24.

for all the major BBC shows and they are not being paid. So David why not

:31:25.:31:31.

more transparency on pay? The argument is that the more you

:31:32.:31:35.

reveal, the easier it is to poach top talent. I'm not quite sure

:31:36.:31:44.

whether that is a reality or not. Keeping it at 450 is very high. They

:31:45.:31:50.

were talking about ?150,000 plus, the market is probably very

:31:51.:31:53.

different to the people who bring an audience. There is a view within

:31:54.:31:56.

television that there are certain people who have a certain magic

:31:57.:32:00.

about them, and they are the ones paid exponentially more than anybody

:32:01.:32:05.

else. It is almost like a voodoo economics of deciding who these

:32:06.:32:07.

people are and what these special magic skills are they have. But the

:32:08.:32:12.

execs look at the audience and say that is the magic person.

:32:13.:32:16.

Self-promotion as part of the operation and all that sort of

:32:17.:32:20.

thing. But it is exactly the same with chief executives of big

:32:21.:32:23.

companies, sometimes they acquire some sort of mystique. If you look,

:32:24.:32:28.

the more transparency that has existed in public corporations, Paea

:32:29.:32:32.

carries on going up and up and up. So some people say it may actually

:32:33.:32:36.

increase the amount of salaries, rather than decrease them. Let's

:32:37.:32:42.

move on to the licence fee as a whole, Ryan Bourne has a bitter

:32:43.:32:47.

killer interest in this from the economic board of affairs was that

:32:48.:32:49.

the licence fee is therefore another 11 years at least. You think that is

:32:50.:32:56.

wrong? I think it is bad for the BBC, that is the main point I will

:32:57.:33:00.

try to make. Because we are seeing already in the rest of this

:33:01.:33:04.

discussion, the degree of politicisation and the distortion of

:33:05.:33:08.

the way that the BBC has two serve a purely domestic audience. We are

:33:09.:33:13.

talking about channels and things. Television is going to evolve and

:33:14.:33:17.

has been evolving rapidly over the last decade, and the real

:33:18.:33:20.

competitors to the BBC now, in terms of the production of content going

:33:21.:33:24.

forwards, will be Netflix, Amazon, Google, Time Warner. All of these

:33:25.:33:30.

major, major producers and providers of content. If you have got a

:33:31.:33:36.

licence fee, which in effect is paid by everybody that owns a television,

:33:37.:33:40.

now everybody who watches on iPlayer, that creates a constraint

:33:41.:33:45.

of the BBC to merely serve a domestic audience and try to be all

:33:46.:33:49.

things to all men, where I think the BBC should be raising its horizons,

:33:50.:33:53.

it should be given independence to pursue a real global brand, and a

:33:54.:33:59.

global strategy to grow and become a huge media, international media

:34:00.:34:05.

broadcaster, rather than being constraint of the domestic market.

:34:06.:34:08.

What do you think of that, that question of being all things to all

:34:09.:34:12.

people? If everyone is paying, everyone has to get something from

:34:13.:34:18.

it, is that the best way? BBC worldwide has quite a significant

:34:19.:34:21.

turnover, and the BBC World Service is pretty well watched and listened

:34:22.:34:25.

to, so I'm not sure I agree. Neither do I come of the BBC is a huge part

:34:26.:34:33.

of the nation's economy, shows like Sherlock and Dr Who and the rest

:34:34.:34:39.

bring ?1.3 billion every year. For every pound you spend on the licence

:34:40.:34:43.

fee, it gets another pound back into the coffers of the UK. Did you see

:34:44.:34:49.

it as a revenue raiser? Yes, but for the BBC. The important thing about

:34:50.:34:55.

the licence fee is that it is the public was Mac money, not public

:34:56.:35:01.

money. Yes, of course people who pay the licence fee, most of them will

:35:02.:35:06.

also be tax payers as well, but I see it rather akin to the income

:35:07.:35:20.

that the lottery derives -- it is the public's money, not public

:35:21.:35:25.

money. It should not pay for things which are part of mainstream public

:35:26.:35:31.

expenditure. I am very concerned about the way in which this

:35:32.:35:36.

government has just helped itself to chunks of licence fee payers money,

:35:37.:35:40.

like for instance the decision to say it is for the BBC to run the

:35:41.:35:47.

work and pensions programme, and to pay for free licenses for people

:35:48.:35:54.

over 75. I think that is creating a confusion. The licence fee, ?3.7

:35:55.:36:00.

billion coming to the BBC belongs to the licence fee payer, and that is

:36:01.:36:04.

why this founding point about accountability to the licence fee

:36:05.:36:09.

payer is so important. It is not money that the government should be

:36:10.:36:15.

free to help itself to. Hence the importance of independence. Could I

:36:16.:36:18.

just come back to the question of the use to which the money is made,

:36:19.:36:23.

because educate, inform and entertain. Now as I understand it,

:36:24.:36:27.

and I have pressed very hard for this in papers I have written in

:36:28.:36:32.

consultation exercises, that impartiality should be made one of

:36:33.:36:36.

the main principles of the BBC. Because actually that is where the

:36:37.:36:40.

money, as it were, certainly in terms of the content of information

:36:41.:36:45.

and current affairs really comes home to roost. The real question is

:36:46.:36:50.

do people really a get proper opportunity to hear both sides of

:36:51.:36:54.

the argument in a fair way? And actually, in fairness, I will say

:36:55.:36:59.

the BBC has improved, over this European referendum, I am very glad

:37:00.:37:03.

to see that my European committee was very concerned, we have noticed

:37:04.:37:07.

a very significant change, it may not be perfect, but it is certainly

:37:08.:37:12.

a great improvement, and it is essential to the information,

:37:13.:37:15.

because it goes straight into people's drawing rooms. That is

:37:16.:37:18.

where you influence people. Not just people sitting around like we are

:37:19.:37:22.

chatting, we are going into people's drawing rooms, it is affecting what

:37:23.:37:27.

they think. It is very important it should be impartial. Our viewer,

:37:28.:37:31.

Victoria, I can see you desperate to get in with a final thought. I agree

:37:32.:37:37.

with a lot of what has been said about money coming from elsewhere.

:37:38.:37:43.

Obviously, the BBC is a massive corporation, it sells its programmes

:37:44.:37:46.

around the world, it is respected and recognised across the globe, and

:37:47.:37:51.

it is a huge brand that we should be proud of as British people. But at

:37:52.:37:57.

the same time it is also a public service. It is right that it is

:37:58.:38:04.

partly funded by the licence fee. However, I think perhaps the licence

:38:05.:38:08.

fee itself is a cause of quite a lot of anger for viewers, because they

:38:09.:38:11.

have this bill, this licence fee that they just get angry about,

:38:12.:38:16.

whereas other public services are included in normal taxation, and

:38:17.:38:21.

that is fine. You can choose not to use the NHS or education, you can

:38:22.:38:25.

choose not to do that, but you have got to pay for it anyway because

:38:26.:38:27.

there are people out there who need it. I am going to have two

:38:28.:38:32.

unfortunately, I'm sorry, I know you have so many thoughts, have to stop

:38:33.:38:35.

it there. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on it, and lots of you

:38:36.:38:38.

getting in touch as you are watching our discussion. I will do three pro,

:38:39.:38:47.

three and the comedy the affair as I can. -- three anti. Please Mr

:38:48.:38:52.

Whittingdale leave it be, says this one. George on e-mail, the BBC

:38:53.:38:56.

delivers the truth, all politicians fear the truth. The future of the

:38:57.:39:01.

BBC should not be in the hands of politicians, and particularly the

:39:02.:39:03.

government minister involved. No problem with the BBC board, Tony on

:39:04.:39:08.

Twitter, BBC belongs to the nation not any political party. George on

:39:09.:39:13.

e-mail, the BBC licence fee should be completely scrapped, one of the

:39:14.:39:16.

problems is the high wages for the managers and overpaid stars. Heather

:39:17.:39:21.

on e-mail, the inability to try new talent. Too many presenters are

:39:22.:39:28.

stale and passed their sell by date. Question time for example. Keep

:39:29.:39:31.

producing the great drama at which the BBC is so adept. An anonymous

:39:32.:39:37.

text, the licence fee needs to be stopped, bring back entertaining

:39:38.:39:42.

television. The BBC is out of touch, it cannot continue unless it moves

:39:43.:39:46.

to independent self funding and disconnects from the government.

:39:47.:39:51.

Thank you for your comments. John Whittingdale is expected to speak at

:39:52.:39:55.

around 11am, so there will be full coverage on the BBC of what he says.

:39:56.:39:57.

Still to come: Humiliated and left to feel guilty.

:39:58.:40:00.

Victims of a man who uploaded social media pictures of his sister

:40:01.:40:03.

and other women onto porn websites call for tougher action,

:40:04.:40:09.

after the perpetrator walked off with just a caution.

:40:10.:40:13.

There is not enough knowledge within this kind of area, which is a shame,

:40:14.:40:21.

really, because obviously now cases like this aren't taken seriously

:40:22.:40:24.

enough. And after being left red-faced

:40:25.:40:27.

following those corruption comments, the Prime Minister prepares

:40:28.:40:29.

to welcome Nigeria and Afghanistan to a major conference

:40:30.:40:32.

tackling the issue. We'll be asking just how much

:40:33.:40:33.

damage has been caused. We are running a little late because

:40:34.:40:40.

of our discussion about the BBC. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

:40:41.:40:44.

with a summary of today's news. Plans for a major overhaul

:40:45.:40:48.

in the way the BBC is run are due to be set out by the

:40:49.:40:59.

Government this morning. The Trust, which governs

:41:00.:41:02.

the broadcaster, is expected to be abolished, and the licence fee

:41:03.:41:04.

is expected to continue for at least I have grave misgivings about the

:41:05.:41:10.

establishment of a unitary board to run the BBC with a substantial

:41:11.:41:16.

number of people appointed by the government. The difference with the

:41:17.:41:21.

BBC trust was that the trust was established expressly to represent

:41:22.:41:26.

the interests of the licence fee payer. I do think the essence of

:41:27.:41:33.

independence will come from the people who are appointed, in other

:41:34.:41:36.

words, how do you make the appointments and who do you decide

:41:37.:41:40.

should be there? Ofcom, by the way, I think I'm right in saying have

:41:41.:41:45.

just recently had quite a lot of BBC people imported into Ofcom, who are

:41:46.:41:49.

the people who will take over the regulatory assessment of the BBC, as

:41:50.:42:00.

compared to the trust. For the first time foreign companies who want to

:42:01.:42:03.

buy property in the UK already have it will have announce who owns it.

:42:04.:42:12.

David Cameron will NOT take part in any EU referendum TV debates

:42:13.:42:15.

with Boris Johnson or other Conservatives.

:42:16.:42:16.

Downing Street says they don't want the campaign to turn into a fight

:42:17.:42:19.

Vote Leave - the official out campaign -

:42:20.:42:22.

after the broadcaster excluded them from a major TV debate, and instead

:42:23.:42:27.

invited Nigel Farage to represent those who want to leave the EU.

:42:28.:42:33.

A 23-year-old man has been charged with the murder of a soldier

:42:34.:42:36.

Private Matthew Boyd from the Royal Gibraltar Regiment disappeared after

:42:37.:42:47.

leaving a pub and was found unconscious at early Sunday morning.

:42:48.:42:52.

He died later in hospital. A 22-year-old man has also been

:42:53.:42:55.

charged with affray. That is a summary of the latest news, Moore at

:42:56.:42:57.

ten o'clock. It is all about the permit

:42:58.:43:07.

relegation. If you are a Sunderland fan you will be smiling doubly wide,

:43:08.:43:11.

because not only do you stay up but your 3-0 win over Everton means both

:43:12.:43:16.

Norwich and Newcastle are a ligated. There were celebrations at the

:43:17.:43:19.

Stadium Of Light last night. Sam Allardyce's men remained Tain in the

:43:20.:43:25.

Premier League. That win for Sunderland relegates north-east

:43:26.:43:28.

rivals, Newcastle. They join Norwich and Aston Villa in the Championship

:43:29.:43:31.

necks is on. To cricket, Nottinghamshire fast bowler Jake

:43:32.:43:35.

Ball is one of two uncapped players in the squad for England's first

:43:36.:43:38.

Test match against Sri Lanka next week at Headingley. Hampshire

:43:39.:43:42.

captain James Vince was also called up. Tom Daley and Grace Reid have

:43:43.:43:48.

won Britain's first gold medal at the European Aquatics Championships

:43:49.:43:52.

in London. They won the three metre synchro event, given that they have

:43:53.:43:56.

only been diving together for ten days it is amazing, really. That is

:43:57.:43:58.

all the sport for now. David Cameron is welcoming delegates

:43:59.:44:01.

from countries across the world for At the top of the list -

:44:02.:44:03.

transparency - so, for example, forcing countries and companies

:44:04.:44:07.

to reveal who really owns what, But the event could be overshadowed

:44:08.:44:10.

by the Prime Minister's Earlier this week, he was caught

:44:11.:44:14.

on camera, whilst chatting with the Queen and Archbishop

:44:15.:44:17.

of Canterbury, describing two of the countries sending

:44:18.:44:20.

delegates to London Naomi Grimley is at Lancaster house

:44:21.:44:36.

where the Conference is taking place was as a fence being taken at that?

:44:37.:44:41.

I think originally offence was taken. Though yesterday in public

:44:42.:44:45.

President Bo Hari of Nigeria was actually being rather gracious about

:44:46.:44:50.

the incident, saying he was not going to demand an apology. Instead

:44:51.:44:54.

he would rather like countries like Britain where stolen assets might

:44:55.:44:58.

have been stashed in properties or banks to be returned to countries

:44:59.:45:03.

like Nigeria. Nevertheless the whole episode has rather overshadowed this

:45:04.:45:08.

summit, and David Cameron will be falling over himself this morning to

:45:09.:45:12.

stress many of these countries now do have reforming tendencies. Places

:45:13.:45:18.

like Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Nigeria, have people in charge who

:45:19.:45:24.

want to crackdown on the whole issue of graft and corruption.

:45:25.:45:30.

The moment will speak to some people about what the Commons mean for the

:45:31.:45:40.

summit. Sarah Chaves has written a book called Thieves of State: Why

:45:41.:45:42.

Corruption Threatens Global and has been invited to attend the

:45:43.:45:44.

conference. She will be speaking later. I asked her how she defines

:45:45.:45:52.

corruption. In these days, it is more than just a practice that some

:45:53.:45:56.

venal members, or even many venal members of government engaging. It

:45:57.:46:02.

is actually the practice of very sophisticated and successful

:46:03.:46:10.

networks that control how all aspects of their societies in a lot

:46:11.:46:12.

of countries, meaning government officials are bending the elements

:46:13.:46:18.

of state function. I mean, government agencies are being bent

:46:19.:46:21.

to serve the purposes of personal enrichment. Private sector actors

:46:22.:46:29.

are part of this network, sometimes even criminals come out and out

:46:30.:46:33.

criminals, are part of these networks. You have these integrated

:46:34.:46:40.

networks that have wired closed the whole political economy of

:46:41.:46:42.

countries. Then they have, as we have all been hearing, facilitators

:46:43.:46:50.

that are located outside of these countries. And then they take the

:46:51.:46:53.

money out of the countries and they spend it in places like London, New

:46:54.:46:58.

York and Florida. This is obviously about dirty money, vested interests.

:46:59.:47:07.

You see a clear link to extremism? I do, I see it because when a system

:47:08.:47:12.

is so thoroughly wired the way that I just described it, people have no

:47:13.:47:16.

recourse. Not only is there money being stolen, but something that

:47:17.:47:20.

Westerners often tend to underestimate is that their dignity

:47:21.:47:24.

is being stolen as well. When a police officer on the street stops

:47:25.:47:27.

you and shakes you down for money, it might not be very much that he is

:47:28.:47:31.

taking from you, but he doesn't do it politely, he does not say, please

:47:32.:47:40.

would you mind, my salary is low. He is pushing you around, and very

:47:41.:47:43.

often all you have left is your dignity. Imagine you are a proud,

:47:44.:47:47.

young Afghan man, and I spent a number of years in Afghanistan, and

:47:48.:47:52.

a police officer shoves you, smacks you and demand some money, and you

:47:53.:47:55.

have nothing but that dignity, at some point you wanted to kill the

:47:56.:47:59.

guy. What you have in southern Afghanistan, for example, is the

:48:00.:48:02.

Taliban not only offer you the opportunity to kill the police

:48:03.:48:10.

officer, but they offer you the argument. The argument is, the

:48:11.:48:12.

reason that police officer or that judge is so corrupt is because it is

:48:13.:48:18.

not obey God's law. And if only our government was organised according

:48:19.:48:21.

to God's law, this would never happen like this. It is a spurious

:48:22.:48:26.

argument, but when you are furious and when there is no recourse for

:48:27.:48:33.

you, to be had from the government, because the government has tied up

:48:34.:48:38.

every element, both of the private sector and the public sector, well,

:48:39.:48:43.

you often turn to God for recourse. I have seen it in Afghanistan, I

:48:44.:48:47.

have seen it in Nigeria, I have seen it in Central Asia. I'm not saying

:48:48.:48:51.

it happens all the time that way, because other people have turned to

:48:52.:48:55.

revolution. We have had the Arab Spring, which originally was not an

:48:56.:49:02.

extremist event, it spun in that direction eventually. We have had

:49:03.:49:07.

Ukraine. I am saying this type of system pushes people to extremes.

:49:08.:49:12.

You said about where the laundered money ends up being spent, that

:49:13.:49:18.

brings all sorts of countries into the frame? So, questions for all

:49:19.:49:24.

countries to answer? Absolutely, that is why I find this summit so

:49:25.:49:31.

fascinating. It was guaranteed to be messy, right? Corruption is not a

:49:32.:49:38.

safe topic, that is why so many political leaders just look the

:49:39.:49:43.

other way. It's the experience I've had over the years, trying to get

:49:44.:49:46.

political decision-makers to really take this on, they decide it is

:49:47.:49:53.

boring. In fact, it is not a boring topic at all, as we are discovering.

:49:54.:49:57.

If you're going to have an anti-corruption Summit in London, it

:49:58.:50:00.

is going to blow up in your face, it is guaranteed to blow up in your

:50:01.:50:04.

face. These networks that I am describing, as I say, have

:50:05.:50:09.

international facilitators like the law firm of Panama, but it also goes

:50:10.:50:24.

outside. They want to protect their money, they want to buy luxurious

:50:25.:50:29.

things with their money, they want to achieve visible staters with

:50:30.:50:33.

their money. They can't do that very often in their own countries. They

:50:34.:50:37.

do that also, they build fantastically huge properties. At a

:50:38.:50:43.

city like London and New York, those are cities that carry stature. There

:50:44.:50:51.

is image enhancement to spending your money in London or New York.

:50:52.:50:57.

The embarrassing thing is that our economies in the west are

:50:58.:51:01.

predicated, very often, on corrupt money. We had a former mayor of New

:51:02.:51:07.

York saying I want every billionaire in the world to buy property in New

:51:08.:51:12.

York. Well, is every billionaire in the world getting their money

:51:13.:51:14.

honestly or legally? No. Let's talk now to Kate McMahon,

:51:15.:51:17.

Serious Fraud Lawyer at Edmonds Marshall McMahon,

:51:18.:51:21.

Sir William Patey, former British ambassador to Afghanistan,

:51:22.:51:23.

who has spoken frankly about what he sees as the errors

:51:24.:51:27.

and failings in the country, and Robert Barrington

:51:28.:51:30.

from Transparency International, an organisation which works

:51:31.:51:32.

to combat global corruption. Thank you for joining us. Kate, we

:51:33.:51:47.

were hearing from Sarah Chaves that if you think corruption is about

:51:48.:51:51.

stopping in another country and not affecting us here, you are wrong.

:51:52.:51:55.

Tell us what you encounter and what the scale is? Absolutely, my

:51:56.:52:00.

background is dealing with lots of international frauds, where there is

:52:01.:52:02.

some element of that has occurred in the UK. Very often, as we have

:52:03.:52:07.

already heard this morning, the UK is an incredibly attractive place

:52:08.:52:16.

for money, it is safe, ironically with rules and regulations which

:52:17.:52:21.

meant people feel safe. ?180 billion of unexplained money is set to own

:52:22.:52:26.

various houses and properties in England. Unexplained, through

:52:27.:52:30.

foreign companies and nobody knows who owns them? Absolutely, correct.

:52:31.:52:37.

What we often deal with any fraud and corruption sphere is lots of

:52:38.:52:40.

money and lots of property without any identifiable owner. One of the

:52:41.:52:43.

big issues at the moment is how do we make those owners more

:52:44.:52:47.

identifiable and more accountable? That is something we are expecting

:52:48.:52:51.

to hear from David Cameron later, those companies will have to reveal

:52:52.:52:56.

who is the ultimate owner, but it will not apply to British Overseas

:52:57.:53:00.

Territories? Is that going to be a loophole? To some extent, that will

:53:01.:53:06.

be a loophole. The question is, do we make those companies have to

:53:07.:53:09.

declare a significant interest in any UK company or any UK property?

:53:10.:53:16.

So, irrespective of where you have set up your trust Company, if you

:53:17.:53:19.

want to invest in the UK, you're going to have to declare that

:53:20.:53:23.

investment and that you have a significant control of a company

:53:24.:53:26.

where you may not come on paper, appear as a director. Anybody

:53:27.:53:36.

looking to launder money is going to look for any loophole and go there,

:53:37.:53:40.

rather than complying with what comes in. Do you expect anything

:53:41.:53:44.

that comes in to have much of an impact? Corruption is one of the

:53:45.:53:48.

things we are tackling, but slowly. If it has an effect and 30%, that is

:53:49.:53:53.

wonderful progress. Obviously you cannot stop people from asking

:53:54.:53:57.

friends or people that work for them, or other associates to that

:53:58.:54:01.

interest. What it does show is that there is a link between the person,

:54:02.:54:05.

potentially, purchasing with the beneficial interest, and the person

:54:06.:54:09.

that purchases. At least we will be able to create links. So William

:54:10.:54:18.

Haiti, David Cameron described Afghanistan as fantastically

:54:19.:54:21.

corrupt, do you agree? I think it is a statement of fact. I don't even

:54:22.:54:26.

think the Afghan President would dispute it. He set out his stall as

:54:27.:54:30.

the new President to try to deal with corruption. It is something

:54:31.:54:34.

that can be a very low level, up to very high level. It can be from a

:54:35.:54:39.

policeman, as one of the previous contributor said, taking a bride

:54:40.:54:51.

from an innocent citizen -- bribe, right up to stealing the assets from

:54:52.:54:59.

the biggest bank in Afghanistan. It is extremely complicated and the

:55:00.:55:02.

only way to deal with it is to shine light on it, make a transparent,

:55:03.:55:06.

make it difficult for people to hide money, deal with corruption and the

:55:07.:55:10.

judiciary, and deal with corrupt politicians. There is no easy

:55:11.:55:16.

solution. Robert Barrington, you are from Transparency International, do

:55:17.:55:21.

you think that this summit will achieve transparency? It could do

:55:22.:55:24.

that, it is a different summit to all of the others that there have

:55:25.:55:28.

been. We have heard that the communique has been watered down,

:55:29.:55:34.

which is a bit to Singh. -- a bit disturbing. I think you'll

:55:35.:55:42.

contribute Izzat correct, tackling corruption is chock full of

:55:43.:55:44.

loopholes, and the summit could help close some of them, possibly many of

:55:45.:55:50.

them. It is a question of political will. The political will on display

:55:51.:55:55.

from Britain is quite impressive. Also, the leaders gathering around

:55:56.:55:57.

the world to do this. Cynics will say this is not good enough, and the

:55:58.:56:02.

UK has weaknesses in Crown dependencies. This is likely to be a

:56:03.:56:08.

step forward. We are talking about corruption on lots of different

:56:09.:56:14.

levels. You said it goes to the person on the street who asks for

:56:15.:56:17.

extra money to let somebody through, or whatever. Are those sorts of

:56:18.:56:26.

things just culturally ingrained in a way that they are not going to be

:56:27.:56:33.

eradicated? Can every aspect be tackled? There is a danger of saying

:56:34.:56:37.

it is a cultural problem and thinking that we in Britain are

:56:38.:56:41.

immune. I don't think we are. We have seen changes in Afghanistan.

:56:42.:56:45.

The police issue, there was a drop in corruption when policeman got

:56:46.:56:50.

their salaries on their telephones. Until that point, they hadn't

:56:51.:56:53.

realised how much money they were getting because their commanders

:56:54.:56:56.

were taking half of it. When the police get paid properly, the

:56:57.:57:05.

incentives for hassling, for citizens to steal money, they are

:57:06.:57:08.

reduced. There are systemic things you can do, but you have to tackle

:57:09.:57:14.

it, bit by bit. Intrinsically, I don't think Afghans are more corrupt

:57:15.:57:17.

than anybody else, but there are failings in the system that make it

:57:18.:57:21.

easier for corrupt people to survive, and then others that say

:57:22.:57:24.

they are getting away with it, why won't I? It is very important to

:57:25.:57:32.

have light shone on it. An incorruptible judiciary, politicians

:57:33.:57:36.

who give the right lead. It is not easy, I don't think there is

:57:37.:57:39.

anything intrinsically corrupt about Afghans. Robert Barrington, these

:57:40.:57:46.

are issues that have been around for ever, 2016 and this is being talked

:57:47.:57:50.

about. Do you think politicians have shied away from these issues before?

:57:51.:57:57.

Yes. I mean, it is quite clear that this anti-corruption Summit is

:57:58.:58:00.

talking about corruption, it is saying that the UK Government and

:58:01.:58:04.

others have not been good enough in the past. That is a new approach. In

:58:05.:58:09.

the past, these things having called integrity, governance, these sort of

:58:10.:58:13.

things, and not called it out as corruption, which is what the Prime

:58:14.:58:16.

Minister has done. The UK still has a lot to do, so do other

:58:17.:58:20.

governments. Political will is a key ingredient. I think some of that

:58:21.:58:24.

will be on display today. Thank you for joining us. Let's catch up with

:58:25.:58:26.

the weather. Other places have beautiful

:58:27.:58:44.

temperatures, some have clouds and rain, the cloud and the rain is

:58:45.:58:47.

across the south-west in the channel islands where we have murky

:58:48.:58:51.

conditions, around the coastline of Wales as well, away from that a fair

:58:52.:58:55.

bit of sunshine but still cloud coming down the used coast.

:58:56.:59:02.

Temperatures not too bad for many, if you are under the rain they will

:59:03.:59:07.

be suppressed, the rain moving down Cornwall to the hours of silly. We

:59:08.:59:11.

see a return to sunshine and showers as we do across Wales, the showers

:59:12.:59:16.

will be isolated but if you catch when it could be sharp, in Kendell,

:59:17.:59:22.

220 Celsius. Across to Northern Ireland, warming up with some

:59:23.:59:25.

sunshine and the cloud across the north-east of Scotland burning up

:59:26.:59:30.

towards the coast, and much of Scotland seeing some sunshine and

:59:31.:59:33.

showers and temperatures in the West again apt to around 23. North East

:59:34.:59:39.

England, anywhere from a fumble and towards the Wash prone to the breeze

:59:40.:59:44.

across the sea which will suppress temperatures, four East Anglian

:59:45.:59:48.

around London and into Kent, in the Midlands it is looking fine and dry,

:59:49.:59:52.

pollen levels more or less across the board today are going to be

:59:53.:59:56.

high, something to bear in mind if you have an allergy to tree pollen.

:59:57.:00:08.

And Joanna Gosling, welcome to the programme if you have just joined

:00:09.:00:15.

us. The future of the BBC should become clearer when the Culture

:00:16.:00:18.

Secretary today unveils plans to change the way it is run. The Trust

:00:19.:00:23.

which governs the corporation will be abolished although the licence

:00:24.:00:24.

fee will be abolished. A man who uploaded pictures of his

:00:25.:00:35.

sister and some of her friends onto a pawn site got a caution. His

:00:36.:00:41.

victims believe that is not enough. It was not just because they were

:00:42.:00:47.

uploaded onto this site, it was what he had written that was disturbing

:00:48.:00:51.

that, having someone walk away, get on with his life and maybe meet

:00:52.:00:55.

somebody some day who knows nothing about it, that is just scary. Fake

:00:56.:01:02.

Viagra is flooding the online market and now accounts for 90% of all

:01:03.:01:07.

illegal medicines seized. Those buying it are putting their health

:01:08.:01:13.

at risk, people are warned. We have found some medicines stored in a

:01:14.:01:18.

shed in the back garden, damp, rats and mice crawling all over this

:01:19.:01:19.

stuff. Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom

:01:20.:01:32.

with a summary of today's news. Plans for a "major overhaul"

:01:33.:01:35.

in the way the BBC is run, are being set out by

:01:36.:01:38.

the Government this morning. The Trust - which governs

:01:39.:01:40.

the broadcaster - is expected to be abolished,

:01:41.:01:42.

and the licence fee is expected to continue for at least

:01:43.:01:45.

another eleven years. I have grave misgivings about the

:01:46.:01:51.

establishment of a unitary board to run the BBC with a substantial

:01:52.:01:57.

number of people appointed by the government. The difference with the

:01:58.:02:04.

BBC Trust was that the Trust was established in press late to

:02:05.:02:09.

represent the interests of the licence fee payable asthma

:02:10.:02:09.

expressly. I do think the essence of

:02:10.:02:17.

independence will come from the people appointed. How do you make

:02:18.:02:21.

the appointments and decide who should be there? Ofcom, think I'm

:02:22.:02:25.

right in saying, have recently had quite a lot of BBC people imported

:02:26.:02:30.

into Ofcom, who other people who will take over the regulatory

:02:31.:02:35.

assessment of the BBC as compared to the Trust.

:02:36.:02:37.

For the first time, foreign companies that already have,

:02:38.:02:39.

or want to buy, property in the UK will have to reveal

:02:40.:02:42.

It's one of the measures being announced by David Cameron

:02:43.:02:47.

today at an international conference to fight global corruption

:02:48.:02:50.

David Cameron will not take part in any EU referendum TV debates with

:02:51.:02:59.

Boris Johnson or other Tories. Downing Street says they don't want

:03:00.:03:03.

the campaign to turn into a fight between Tory politicians. Vote

:03:04.:03:09.

Leave, the official Out campaign has accused ITV of taking sides after it

:03:10.:03:13.

excluded them from a TV debate and instead invited Nigel Farage to

:03:14.:03:16.

represent those who want to leave the EU.

:03:17.:03:31.

A man has been charged with the murder of a soldier who disappeared

:03:32.:03:40.

in Brecon. Private Matthew borrowed from the Royal Gibraltar Regiment

:03:41.:03:44.

disappeared after leaving above unconscious early on Sunday morning.

:03:45.:03:48.

He died later in hospital, 22-year-old man has been charged

:03:49.:03:53.

with affray. Donald Trump appears to have soft and his stance on Muslims.

:03:54.:03:59.

The proposed ban has been widely criticised in the USA and the board.

:04:00.:04:04.

The abortion rate in many countries are stocked to an all-time low

:04:05.:04:07.

mainly due to advances in contraception. Research published in

:04:08.:04:19.

the Lancet medical journal suggests that 20 72 nations are carried out

:04:20.:04:23.

per 1000 women each year. In developing countries where

:04:24.:04:26.

contraception is more limited rates have remained stable. The Brazilian

:04:27.:04:31.

president to Marissa looks certain to face impeachment proceedings as

:04:32.:04:34.

members of the country's Senate debate whether she should be put on

:04:35.:04:39.

trial. Please have fired tear gas at protesters outside parliament in the

:04:40.:04:43.

capital as the debate carries on inside. What an half the senators

:04:44.:04:48.

have already said they will vote for impeachment. A company which sent a

:04:49.:04:52.

temp home from work refusing to wear high heels has changed its policy

:04:53.:04:56.

making it clear that flat shoes are acceptable. Nicola Thorpe was told

:04:57.:05:00.

she had to wear heels of between two and four inches for a job as a

:05:01.:05:04.

receptionist in London. More than 60,000 people signed a petition in

:05:05.:05:08.

protest. That's the latest BBC News. Thank you, many people have been

:05:09.:05:13.

getting in touch, Tony says, I believe the BBC has lost its way,

:05:14.:05:16.

it's an old-fashioned corporation that has no respect for the way it

:05:17.:05:21.

is funded primarily by the public and refuses to make changes that the

:05:22.:05:25.

public would welcome. Valerie says by e-mail, I am worried about the

:05:26.:05:29.

vehemence by the government of the BBC. Long-term we might have an even

:05:30.:05:33.

more radical government and of the BBC is muzzled we would not know

:05:34.:05:37.

what was going on. The BBC must stay independent. Ma'afu, in a text,

:05:38.:05:42.

says, the BBC in this country is unique, people need to remember they

:05:43.:05:46.

can get a mixture of TV channels and radio stations for less than pound a

:05:47.:05:51.

day. Keep it independent. Another viewers says get rid of the BBC

:05:52.:05:56.

altogether, it is out of date, Chris says, it is known and loved, may

:05:57.:06:01.

that continue, and another viewers says that it does too much digital

:06:02.:06:05.

and Internet. I could carry on reading for a long time because so

:06:06.:06:09.

many of you have sent your thoughts. Keep on sending them and I will read

:06:10.:06:14.

at as many as I can. Remember the hashtags that we can find your

:06:15.:06:18.

comments when they come in. You will be charged at the standard network

:06:19.:06:22.

rate. Let's catch up with the sports is, it's all about Premier League

:06:23.:06:28.

relegation, over to you, Hugh. Congratulations to Sunderland. They

:06:29.:06:32.

stay up. Commiserations for Newcastle and Norwich will go down.

:06:33.:06:36.

Sunderland boss Sam Allott ice calls upon the club to forget the dark

:06:37.:06:41.

days of relegation struggle after they guaranteed Premier League

:06:42.:06:43.

survival by beating Everton 3-1 last night. Their defender scored two

:06:44.:06:49.

goals. This was his first, finishing like a centre forward, this came

:06:50.:06:55.

after an opener by Patrick van Aanholt. After the match some Allott

:06:56.:06:59.

ice said he wanted his squad to come through the tough times stronger and

:07:00.:07:05.

stronger. For the rest of the lads and their families, well done, a

:07:06.:07:11.

terrific effort by us all. It has paid off for us in the end, all the

:07:12.:07:16.

hard work we have done, not just me as manager but all the backroom

:07:17.:07:21.

staff, we have put all work together, everything has turned out

:07:22.:07:27.

well, as they say. Sunderland fans will be especially vocal at work

:07:28.:07:31.

today in the north-east. This result means they have relegated their

:07:32.:07:35.

north-east rivals Newcastle as well as Norwich although there will be

:07:36.:07:39.

questions for their owner Ashley now, not the least, can hold onto

:07:40.:07:45.

their highly rated manager, Phil Benitez? The problem will be if he

:07:46.:07:51.

stays you want to turn Sunderland into force in the Premier League. We

:07:52.:07:55.

heard months ago that the next question he would ask of the board

:07:56.:07:59.

would be, how do we get into the Champions League. Not easy to do

:08:00.:08:03.

that when you are in the division below, I would imagine that Rafa

:08:04.:08:06.

Benitez would never have imagined himself managing in there. There is

:08:07.:08:10.

some hope because he been won over by the enthusiasm of the Newcastle

:08:11.:08:16.

fans. I think there is a glimmer of hope although he will want massive

:08:17.:08:19.

assurances of money and being able to turn around the club the way that

:08:20.:08:22.

he wants because at the moment there's a lot of competing people at

:08:23.:08:29.

Newcastle. The England cricket squad to play Sri Lanka in the next test

:08:30.:08:34.

is announced, two uncapped players called up, Jake Ball of

:08:35.:08:38.

Nottinghamshire, the seam bowler, makes the squad and so does

:08:39.:08:42.

Hampshire batsman James Vince. Full details on the BBC website. The

:08:43.:08:46.

Headingley Test match begins next Thursday. Great Britain won their

:08:47.:08:51.

first gold of the European aquatic Championships last night next to Tom

:08:52.:08:55.

Daley and Grace Read in the mixed three metres synchronised diving. It

:08:56.:08:58.

was a good birthday present for Grace was 20 on Monday. It is a

:08:59.:09:02.

prising result given that they haven't been together for long. I

:09:03.:09:07.

don't what happened, we got put together ten days ago and we've done

:09:08.:09:11.

about five sessions and we've just come away, the European champions,

:09:12.:09:15.

on a board where I never train. I haven't done a hurdle step for six

:09:16.:09:19.

months. I'm over the moon with the way it went. It was great to have

:09:20.:09:29.

the home crowd and my family and Grace's family in the audience. It

:09:30.:09:31.

has been fun although I was terrified before the competition! I

:09:32.:09:34.

will be back with the headlines later, see you then, Joanna. Thank

:09:35.:09:42.

you. Migrants coming to the UK for a short-term stay has affected

:09:43.:09:47.

statistics to the point that they make have been misunderstood. In a

:09:48.:10:00.

word, basically, national insurance figures out today indicate how many

:10:01.:10:03.

people are here from abroad and working and therefore have a

:10:04.:10:06.

national insurance number. There is a disparity between those with

:10:07.:10:12.

national insurance numbers and those officially recorded as coming to the

:10:13.:10:15.

country. These are very technical figures. You perhaps need an

:10:16.:10:20.

advanced degree statistics to get your head around them. But it comes

:10:21.:10:24.

down to is trying to give an answer to a row that's been developing in

:10:25.:10:29.

the last year or so it in government, some economists, and

:10:30.:10:32.

critically, campaigners against membership of the EU about the true

:10:33.:10:36.

level of European Union migration. In short this is what the picture

:10:37.:10:41.

is. We have an official estimate for long-term immigration to the UK.

:10:42.:10:45.

Within that we know this and estimated quarter of a million EU

:10:46.:10:51.

migrants coming to live in the UK, in the year September 20 15. Coming

:10:52.:10:57.

to settle here. Maybe with families. They've got a long-term job, they

:10:58.:11:00.

are here. Maybe they students as well. But the figure of a national

:11:01.:11:06.

insurance numbers which all of us have is much higher. Almost three

:11:07.:11:10.

times higher than the estimates of immigration. What critics have said

:11:11.:11:18.

is, how can a national insurance number be 665,000 four the Nabokov

:11:19.:11:24.

EU workers or citizens, and the figure for migration be so much

:11:25.:11:29.

lower! The acquisition has been that this has been some kind of cover up.

:11:30.:11:33.

If you reconcile the figures and becomes a smoking gun for the true

:11:34.:11:36.

level of EU migration. It's much more complex than that. The

:11:37.:11:42.

difference according to the Office of National Statistics is about

:11:43.:11:48.

short-term migration. What our official migration statistics count

:11:49.:11:51.

is people coming here for one year or more. Not people coming on short

:11:52.:11:56.

term contracts. An example, in the East of England every summer and

:11:57.:12:00.

autumn tens of thousands of people come from Eastern Europe to pick

:12:01.:12:07.

carrots and potatoes and broccoli. Short-term migrants, the end of that

:12:08.:12:12.

contract they will go home. They need a national insurance number to

:12:13.:12:16.

be paid and claim tax credits were necessary to pay their taxes but

:12:17.:12:20.

they will not show up in the official immigration statistics

:12:21.:12:23.

because they go home. Another example of a difference, some people

:12:24.:12:27.

with national Insurance numbers who are EU citizens leave the country

:12:28.:12:31.

after years but still have an active number. An experienced, my father is

:12:32.:12:36.

Italian, you doesn't live in the UK any more but because he has a

:12:37.:12:40.

British pension and acids in this country he's got a national

:12:41.:12:44.

insurance number. So this is a complex picture -- he doesn't live

:12:45.:12:48.

in the UK but he has assets in this country. So the true level of

:12:49.:12:54.

migration is the quarter of a million figure quoted? That they is

:12:55.:13:01.

an estimate, the ONS says it is 95% confident it's got it right -- that

:13:02.:13:05.

figure is an estimate. That figure has been regularly criticised in the

:13:06.:13:11.

past. At an early stage of migration the oh and as acknowledged it was

:13:12.:13:15.

not doing enough to count people coming from other parts of the

:13:16.:13:20.

country, doing well at counting people coming through Heathrow or

:13:21.:13:25.

Dover but struggling at people coming to other airports. It thinks

:13:26.:13:29.

it has got the figure right but that figure does not include this

:13:30.:13:33.

short-term migration. What we know from other figures including the

:13:34.:13:38.

census is the total of EU migrants in the UK is about 3 million. A lot

:13:39.:13:43.

of them are here. So what it indicates is that there are a lot of

:13:44.:13:47.

people coming from abroad to work here. In migration circles this is

:13:48.:13:53.

called global children. People maximising their right to freedom of

:13:54.:14:03.

movement around the world. -- global churn. They go home, although they

:14:04.:14:04.

might come back later. Let's talk to two Europeans

:14:05.:14:08.

who moved here to work. From Tilbury in Essex,

:14:09.:14:10.

Polish lorry driver Andrew Lipinski who says new migrants

:14:11.:14:13.

are damagng his income and Spanish graphic designer Pablo Lladosa

:14:14.:14:15.

who moved to London Thank you both for joining us.

:14:16.:14:28.

Andrew, you have been working in the UK for 12 years but you are not

:14:29.:14:32.

happy about other people coming here, undermining what you are

:14:33.:14:36.

doing. Talk to us about that. Good morning everyone. I came to England

:14:37.:14:45.

to work, like many people as soon as Poland joined the EU, as an HGV

:14:46.:14:53.

driver. I had been doing this job in Poland for about eight years. And

:14:54.:14:58.

then I started work in England but before England, I worked in Ireland.

:14:59.:15:06.

I can tell you my experience from Ireland, in 2002, I started working

:15:07.:15:13.

in Ireland, I got a permit for work and everything. It was fine. Work is

:15:14.:15:19.

fantastic. I'm Polish but I complain as well at this moment, as soon as

:15:20.:15:27.

Poland joined the EU, might work in Ireland completely changed. -- my

:15:28.:15:33.

work changed. Because so many people came to work with our company that

:15:34.:15:39.

the owner of the company, the boss, tried to force us to break the law

:15:40.:15:44.

and do stuff like this on the road. Mainly working overtime, illegally.

:15:45.:15:52.

He said, look, I have ten people, 50 people in your place, if you don't

:15:53.:15:57.

do this you can go home. That's what happened to me in Ireland. So I had

:15:58.:16:01.

to leave the country so I could find work in England and that is what

:16:02.:16:07.

I've done, so in 2004, I finished work in Ireland, and I started

:16:08.:16:14.

working England. It was good work until the EU started to expand and

:16:15.:16:24.

new countries joined. Again, a similar situation happened to in

:16:25.:16:29.

Ireland, to me. I have to look for somewhere else to work now, because

:16:30.:16:33.

I can't afford to pay my mortgage any more. My wage, my rate of pay,

:16:34.:16:41.

is frozen, 12 years, it hasn't risen at all. Actually it's falling. When

:16:42.:16:47.

you say you need to look for someone else, are you saying that you will

:16:48.:16:52.

leave England? Yes, I'm thinking of going to Australia now. Because

:16:53.:16:59.

Poland is a member of the EU now. It should be fantastic and it is not

:17:00.:17:06.

fantastic at all. Mr Donald Tusk, the president of Europe... I want to

:17:07.:17:11.

bring in Pablo. Thank you, Andrew. Pablo, you have a different

:17:12.:17:16.

perspective. First, it's really hard to find a job. That is something

:17:17.:17:24.

that we know. But I don't think it is about someone else getting your

:17:25.:17:31.

job. In this case, I am not sure, what can I say about this case? I'm

:17:32.:17:36.

pretty sure that the amount of migrants we have in the UK is really

:17:37.:17:42.

good. More opportunities, more jobs, more business. I am not sure how

:17:43.:17:53.

accurate this is, saying someone else is getting my job. Why did you

:17:54.:17:59.

choose to come to England? I was a graphic designer, working in Madrid.

:18:00.:18:04.

I came to London for more opportunities here. What were the

:18:05.:18:09.

pull factors? These issues always get discussed around these

:18:10.:18:13.

conversations, national minimum wage and benefits. Did those come into

:18:14.:18:19.

play for you? Yes, the truth is that in the UK, the national wage is

:18:20.:18:26.

better than in many countries in Europe. So I think this is why loads

:18:27.:18:33.

of people are coming here. I think it's good to have new people, this

:18:34.:18:44.

is attracting very talented people from Europe. So we can create more

:18:45.:18:53.

business, I like it that there are more people here. More migrants.

:18:54.:18:58.

Coming quickly, Andrew, we are almost out of time. Yes, more

:18:59.:19:09.

people, more money, but is not the point. Tesco or Sainsbury's, they

:19:10.:19:17.

are looking for the cheapest Labour possible. Is the national minimum

:19:18.:19:25.

wage which has up wages. ?7 50, I have to pay a mortgage. I'm an HGV

:19:26.:19:32.

driver. I need lots of assessments and tests. You want me to work for

:19:33.:19:44.

?7 50? I'm sorry. How should I pay the English mortgage? I'm talking

:19:45.:19:47.

about an English mortgage, not abolish mortgage or a Spanish

:19:48.:19:50.

mortgage which is on a different level. -- not a Polish mortgage.

:19:51.:19:59.

Today Tesco is applying people for ?7 50, maybe drivers for ?10 an

:20:00.:20:04.

hour. This is before tax. I could afford to work for this money. That

:20:05.:20:11.

was 12 years ago. Not today. It is good to hear your perspective, both

:20:12.:20:14.

of you, Andrew and Pablo, thank you both. The Internet is now home to

:20:15.:20:22.

countless imitations of Viagra, we have learned that the market for

:20:23.:20:27.

fake Viagra is growing. In the last year officers have seized more than

:20:28.:20:30.

in any previous year and it now accounts for 90% of all illegal

:20:31.:20:35.

medicines. Users are putting their health at serious risk. Our reporter

:20:36.:20:39.

Jean MacKenzie went on a raid with officers trying to find the fakes

:20:40.:20:41.

and catch the dealers. Many of these drugs are made in

:20:42.:20:51.

unhygienic non-sophisticated locations. Any heavy metal product

:20:52.:20:57.

that could be toxic, like lead, like arsenic, etc. Open the door!

:20:58.:21:09.

Unlicensed Viagra is big business. More was seized last year in the UK

:21:10.:21:14.

than ever before. Most of it heading for the Internet. Viagra has been an

:21:15.:21:19.

amazing drag in anyways -- many ways, the only drug of its kind in

:21:20.:21:23.

many ways and it has revolutionised the lives of people physically and

:21:24.:21:28.

psychologically. The pills are sold cheap at around ?2 each, they may be

:21:29.:21:34.

imitations of Viagra, or a generic Indian version of the drug. They are

:21:35.:21:40.

shipped to the UK in bulk, packaged and posted on, customers not sure

:21:41.:21:49.

what is inside. There may be many more people than we know about

:21:50.:21:53.

taking it over the Internet and using it in a completely unregulated

:21:54.:21:58.

way. We are in a raid with the agency that regulates medicines in

:21:59.:22:01.

the hope that they can find some fakes. The person we are going to

:22:02.:22:07.

see this morning is involved in the sale and supply of unlicensed

:22:08.:22:12.

medicines. Mostly erectile dysfunctional medicines, what people

:22:13.:22:19.

know as Viagra. We have learned that officers seized more than ?11

:22:20.:22:23.

million worth of these erectile dysfunction drugs last year, many

:22:24.:22:28.

more than in previous years, these drugs made up 90% of all the illegal

:22:29.:22:34.

medicine that they found. It's quite a nerve wracking moment, heading off

:22:35.:22:45.

to a job like this. By way of? Aware of. -- we are off. Open the door.

:22:46.:22:54.

This is the agency's biggest ever operation. It has 24 search warrants

:22:55.:23:02.

and 50 officers across London. Lead us get it under control first. She

:23:03.:23:08.

won't let you in. Please don't record, we are a respectable family.

:23:09.:23:13.

We neither smoke or drink. I beg to differ. When you go onto the website

:23:14.:23:18.

and you have a picture of a pharmacist with a white coat and a

:23:19.:23:22.

stethoscope and it all looks above board, your medicines are not coming

:23:23.:23:26.

from a pharmacy, they coming from a street like this. We have recovered

:23:27.:23:31.

medicines being sold, they've been in a shed in the back garden that.

:23:32.:23:34.

And rotten, rats and mice crawling all over this stuff! -- a shed that

:23:35.:23:42.

was damp and rotten. So how can you spot a fake? We've come to a

:23:43.:23:46.

counterfeit testing lab run by Pfizer, the drug company that makes

:23:47.:23:51.

Viagra. How do you know this isn't real? The first obvious difference

:23:52.:23:56.

is that in a genuine pack writing for the product name is blue and on

:23:57.:24:01.

the counterfeit product it is green. In Pfizer we will test products

:24:02.:24:06.

around the globe and we have found counterfeit products in 111

:24:07.:24:11.

countries. Two they know that they are buying fakes, or is this a

:24:12.:24:15.

choice? If they've no reference against which to match it they may

:24:16.:24:18.

not know it is a counterfeit product. These are the two tablets

:24:19.:24:25.

side-by-side. Which one is the real one? This one is the counterfeit

:24:26.:24:31.

product. You can see immediately that it is a different shade of blue

:24:32.:24:34.

to the original product on the right-hand side. We know that this

:24:35.:24:39.

is not a genuine Pfizer product. Although you do not know what is in

:24:40.:24:48.

it. We don't know what is in it. So we have taken a sample of what we

:24:49.:24:52.

think is the counterfeit product, we've put it on this machine, this

:24:53.:24:56.

machine will do a chemical fingerprint on that sample and then

:24:57.:24:59.

we will look at the chemical fingerprint on the screen. There are

:25:00.:25:04.

clearly differences between the red trace and the purple trays which is

:25:05.:25:08.

indicative that it is not a general product. How much harm is there to

:25:09.:25:13.

the patient if they get something roughly the same? Sometimes the

:25:14.:25:17.

counterfeit can be close enough, the much is reasonably good but other

:25:18.:25:22.

times, maybe because of a lack of medication or too much medication

:25:23.:25:26.

within the product, other agents added that should not be in the

:25:27.:25:29.

product, they are toxic and the patient could come to significant

:25:30.:25:33.

harm. I had a number of people have severe side effects like visual

:25:34.:25:38.

problems, people could potentially faint, you could have dangerous

:25:39.:25:41.

reductions in blood pressure and even potentially heart problems. The

:25:42.:25:49.

woman here is arrested but officers have yet to find any pills. This was

:25:50.:25:55.

a big operation and you were searching a lot of properties. This

:25:56.:26:00.

must be disappointing. It is a bit disappointing not to find any major

:26:01.:26:06.

stock and sources of products, whatever they have been dealing in,

:26:07.:26:09.

the amounts have been small and spread across a number of addresses

:26:10.:26:17.

in order to evade detection. We have a store full of products that

:26:18.:26:21.

testifies to the fact that we do have an impact. This is where we

:26:22.:26:27.

keep all of our seized medicines. There are a lot of them, then! There

:26:28.:26:34.

are ?25 million worth of medicines here which has been collected over

:26:35.:26:39.

the past few years. All the medicines in here were found in the

:26:40.:26:45.

address that started this entire investigation. You see what I mean,

:26:46.:26:52.

they are kept in loose blisters, that could split open, there is no

:26:53.:26:57.

packaging, no boxes, no advice. The patient is taking this blind and

:26:58.:27:04.

placing all of their health trust in what is essentially a drug dealer.

:27:05.:27:07.

You are seizing more than ever before. Where has this market come

:27:08.:27:15.

from? This market, there's a youth market for this, it is used by adult

:27:16.:27:24.

males who don't actually have the medical condition that this could be

:27:25.:27:29.

prescribed for, the use that as sexual enhancement for the weekend.

:27:30.:27:34.

-- they use it as sexual enhancement the weekend. Increasingly younger

:27:35.:27:43.

people seem to be trying to obtain Viagra because they see it as some

:27:44.:27:47.

sort of recreational drug almost and they feel that it enhances and

:27:48.:27:51.

boosts them psychologically which it absolutely doesn't. A drug which

:27:52.:27:57.

only has physical effects, as it were, with respect to erectile

:27:58.:28:02.

dysfunction and that misconception is leading to younger people wanting

:28:03.:28:05.

to try it even if they don't need it. After dozens of searches and

:28:06.:28:11.

three arrests officers find a stash of pills but not as many as they had

:28:12.:28:16.

hoped, keeping up with the dealers has proved tricky. They know the

:28:17.:28:19.

only way to win is to stop people from taking them. That was Jean

:28:20.:28:26.

MacKenzie reporting on the online market for fake Viagra. Still to

:28:27.:28:31.

come. A man who admitted uploading pictures of his sister and other

:28:32.:28:36.

women onto pawn websites, causing them humiliation and distress, got

:28:37.:28:41.

police caution. His victims tell us they do not think that is enough.

:28:42.:28:46.

And on the final day of the Invictus Games in Florida we will be speaking

:28:47.:28:51.

live to one of the stars of team UK, Petty Officer Sean Gaffney on

:28:52.:28:55.

winning four medals, including two gold medals. It's almost 10:30am.

:28:56.:29:06.

Plans for an overhaul of the BBC are being set out by the government

:29:07.:29:11.

today. Here is the rest of the day 's news. Good morning everyone. The

:29:12.:29:17.

Trust which governs the BBC is expected to be abolished and the

:29:18.:29:20.

licence fee is expected to continue for at least another 11 years in

:29:21.:29:25.

plans to be set out by the Culture Secretary, John Whittingdale, this

:29:26.:29:30.

morning. For the first time, foreign companies that already have or want

:29:31.:29:34.

to buy property in the UK will have to reveal who owns it. It's one of

:29:35.:29:38.

the measures being announced by David Cameron on today at an

:29:39.:29:41.

international conference to fight global corruption or

:29:42.:29:44.

money-laundering. He's been explaining why he's been hosting the

:29:45.:29:48.

event. I believe corruption is the cancer at the heart of so many

:29:49.:29:52.

problems we need to tackle in our world if we want to see countries

:29:53.:29:59.

scape property, we need to tackle corruption. We need to tackle

:30:00.:30:08.

corruption. If we want to defeat terrorism and extremism, we need to

:30:09.:30:12.

recognise that corruption and lack of access to justice can often be

:30:13.:30:15.

the way people are driven towards extremism.

:30:16.:30:16.

lack of access to justice can be the way people are driven towards

:30:17.:30:19.

extremism. David Cameron will not take part in any EU referendum TV

:30:20.:30:24.

debates with Boris Johnson or other Conservatives. Downing Street says

:30:25.:30:28.

they don't want the campaign to turn into a fight between Tory

:30:29.:30:32.

politicians. Vote Leave, the official out campaign, accused

:30:33.:30:36.

impolite TV of taking sides after the broadcaster excluded them from a

:30:37.:30:41.

TV debate and invited far Nigel Farage to represent those who want

:30:42.:30:46.

to leave the EU. Migrants coming to Britain for short periods largely

:30:47.:30:51.

account for a gap in statistics which fuels figures are

:30:52.:30:56.

underestimated. The study published by the Office of National Statistics

:30:57.:31:00.

say the estimates and the registration of national insurance

:31:01.:31:12.

numbers to foreign Nashals. Days appeared after leaving a pub and was

:31:13.:31:17.

found unconscious on Sunday morning later in hospital, a 22-year-old

:31:18.:31:22.

man's also been charged with affray. That's the summary of the latest

:31:23.:31:27.

news. Join me for BBC News room live at 11.00. Now back to Joanna. Some

:31:28.:31:36.

breaking news on NHS statistics and the numbers of people admitted to

:31:37.:31:42.

A Hospitals in England saw the worst performance in A units in

:31:43.:31:48.

March since records began in 2004 according to these new statistics.

:31:49.:31:54.

87.3% of patients were treated or assessed in four hours. The target

:31:55.:31:59.

is 95%. They fell short of their target some way. More than two

:32:00.:32:05.

million patients went to A That us an up 7% come paired with March

:32:06.:32:09.

last year. It is the highest number of people attending A since

:32:10.:32:14.

records began on that in 2010. All the key NHS performance targets in

:32:15.:32:19.

England have been missed again, according to these hattest

:32:20.:32:22.

statistics, including ambulance response times, cancer treatment

:32:23.:32:28.

waiting times and waiting times for consultant-led treatment. Those

:32:29.:32:32.

figures coming through on NHS performance. Let's catch up with the

:32:33.:32:35.

store are sport. There were celebrations

:32:36.:32:38.

at the Stadium of Light though as Sam Allardyce's Sunderland

:32:39.:32:40.

maintained their place in the Premier League thanks

:32:41.:32:43.

to a 3-0 win over Everton. That win for Sunderland relegates

:32:44.:32:46.

their North East rivals Newcastle - they will now join Norwich

:32:47.:32:49.

and Aston Villa in the Nottinghamshire fast bowler

:32:50.:32:52.

Jake Ball is one of two uncapped players in the squad for England's

:32:53.:32:57.

first test match against Sri Lanka The Hampshire captain James Vince

:32:58.:33:01.

has also been called up. And British diver Tom Daley's

:33:02.:33:05.

back to winning ways. He and Grace Reid have won Britain's

:33:06.:33:08.

first gold medal at the European The pair won the three metre syncro

:33:09.:33:13.

event amazing given they have only That's all the sport for now. Back

:33:14.:33:33.

to you. Thank you, in around 30 minutes, the culture secretary John

:33:34.:33:37.

whetting dale will outline his vision for the future of the BBC.

:33:38.:33:41.

Loads of you are getting in touch. #50i8' run through some of the

:33:42.:33:44.

emails, texts and tweets coming from you. I'll start with a round-up of

:33:45.:33:50.

some anti-BBC and then some pro-BBC. Some anti-'s first of all. Why can't

:33:51.:33:55.

we buy a television without the BBC's service? Time to give viewers

:33:56.:34:00.

a real option. Why are we forced to pay their fee. Cancel the licence

:34:01.:34:08.

fee and go pay-per-view. Why do peer people have to pay TV license when

:34:09.:34:11.

they are struggling to pay their household bills. The BBC BBC should

:34:12.:34:16.

not employ expensive talent to attract audience. The quality of

:34:17.:34:20.

programmes should do that. The writers would become important and

:34:21.:34:24.

get paid fairly. That goes back to something said in our discussions

:34:25.:34:28.

earlier. Some writers have to write for free. Sue, scrap the TV license

:34:29.:34:34.

put adds after the TV programmes and not during them. All they seem to

:34:35.:34:38.

make is cooking programmes or repeats. Row wean in an on e-mail, I

:34:39.:34:43.

should only pay for the BBC if I want it. I am a customer on Sky and

:34:44.:34:47.

knelt flicks. I am on low income. I can't afford to pay the BBC when I

:34:48.:34:52.

don't want to watch it. Some pros. The BBC in this country is unique.

:34:53.:34:57.

They can get a mixture of TV channels and radio stations for less

:34:58.:35:01.

than ?1 a day. Keep it independent from the Government. It needs to be

:35:02.:35:04.

different from other broad Kisters. Otherwise. What is the point of

:35:05.:35:11.

having it. I grew up in Africa. If it wasn't for the BBC we wouldn't

:35:12.:35:14.

know what was happening. Stop Melsing with it. Margaret the reason

:35:15.:35:20.

e-mail, leave the BBC alone. If you make them state how much they are

:35:21.:35:24.

paying people, all companies should do that. The BBC is the best TV

:35:25.:35:28.

channel in this country. It is admired worldwide. John, if it inti'

:35:29.:35:33.

broke, don't fix it. -- ain't broke. Violated, humiliated

:35:34.:35:39.

and left feeling guilty. These are the words of victims

:35:40.:35:42.

of revenge porn who've spoken to our programme

:35:43.:35:44.

after discovering their photos All three victims knew

:35:45.:35:46.

the perpetrator, Olly Whiting - Olly posted innocent photos

:35:47.:35:49.

from their social media profiles onto a site used

:35:50.:35:53.

for sexual gratification. When he was arrested,

:35:54.:35:56.

Olly admitted his crime but was released with a caution

:35:57.:35:59.

because it was his first offence His victims were frustrated

:36:00.:36:02.

at the police's decision and took to social media

:36:03.:36:06.

to voice their outrage. Their post went viral

:36:07.:36:10.

and Sussex Police has now Our reporter Jean Mackenzie has

:36:11.:36:12.

talked to three of his victims about the effect it's had

:36:13.:36:17.

on their life. Please be warned, the following film

:36:18.:36:19.

contains some graphic Nicky, you were the first to find

:36:20.:36:34.

out what Olly had done with these pictures. What did you find? There

:36:35.:36:39.

was quite a lot I found. There were pictures of myself and the girls

:36:40.:36:44.

here. Basically profile pictures taken from our Facebook, downloaded,

:36:45.:36:49.

uploaded on to another site. They were saying all these terrible

:36:50.:36:52.

things they wanted to do with us. Violent activities. Asking how much

:36:53.:36:56.

they wanted to pay and everything. It was really disgusting. Can you

:36:57.:37:01.

give me some examples? One said, I would love to beat her. Something

:37:02.:37:06.

like slit her throat. So when you saw the photos,

:37:07.:37:31.

what did you think? I could not believe that these

:37:32.:37:34.

things have gone online. And then when I started to realise

:37:35.:37:46.

what it was, I was angry, I was upset, I was confused

:37:47.:37:49.

and I realise my daughter I was scared to tell my partner

:37:50.:37:52.

that his little girl was on there, For some reason, I actually felt

:37:53.:37:56.

ashamed, even though You had the same, it was Nikki that

:37:57.:37:59.

alerted you to it, Charlotte. What did you find of yourself

:38:00.:38:04.

on the site? Just normal pictures of me,

:38:05.:38:06.

just selfies I'd taken in my friend's car,

:38:07.:38:08.

just normal pictures With, you know, captions saying

:38:09.:38:10.

how much would you pay, ?100 to rape her, ?50

:38:11.:38:13.

to make her pregnant, How did it impact you to hear

:38:14.:38:15.

somebody that you knew as a friend, saying those things about you,

:38:16.:38:20.

asking people to do those I kind of was in disbelief,

:38:21.:38:22.

to start off with. I didn't want to believe

:38:23.:38:25.

that he had done that. I was questioning Nikki a lot,

:38:26.:38:28.

to make sure she definitely knew And then, obviously,

:38:29.:38:31.

once he had gone to the police and admitted it, that kind

:38:32.:38:34.

of finalised it for me. And Charley, the same happening

:38:35.:38:36.

to you, an added edge, So it's not something you expect

:38:37.:38:49.

to hear on a quiet evening. To know that your own brother can,

:38:50.:38:58.

one, have those thoughts, but then write that on a website

:38:59.:39:04.

to demoralise you in front And he had written the same sexually

:39:05.:39:07.

violent things under your pictures? He said he wanted to break my nose,

:39:08.:39:14.

throw me onto the bed and rape me, get me pregnant to remind me

:39:15.:39:21.

of the day he raped me, and just And also putting photos of me,

:39:22.:39:24.

in my school uniform, when I was only 16 years old,

:39:25.:39:29.

and writing disgusting Could you believe that was your

:39:30.:39:32.

brother who had done that? I thought, this isn't

:39:33.:39:37.

Olly, I know Olly. But the more it went on,

:39:38.:39:43.

he was named and it kind of settled in then that maybe I didn't know him

:39:44.:39:49.

as well as I thought I did. Did any of you ever think

:39:50.:39:52.

he had this in him? Did you see it coming,

:39:53.:39:55.

or was it a total shock? He was such a likeable person,

:39:56.:39:58.

so bubbly, easy to talk to, that you never would have

:39:59.:40:05.

believed he had this in him. So you were the first

:40:06.:40:10.

to report him to the police. They were, like, "He's not

:40:11.:40:13.

really your friend, is he?" "It doesn't sound

:40:14.:40:21.

like he's your friend." "Maybe you should just block him

:40:22.:40:23.

and report him to Facebook?" And I was, like, well,

:40:24.:40:25.

I don't think Facebook It's not the problem

:40:26.:40:27.

that they are on Facebook, it's the problem that they have been

:40:28.:40:30.

taken from Facebook It just felt like I had been fobbed

:40:31.:40:33.

off and told, like a teacher says to a kid, just

:40:34.:40:38.

ignore him, it'll go away. Didn't know about revenge porn

:40:39.:40:41.

as a crime when you did report it? Yes, that's why I thought,

:40:42.:40:45.

I can definitely report it The girl was, like, "Oh,

:40:46.:40:49.

yeah, we have your report here. But I'll just take more

:40:50.:40:55.

details from you." She gave me a crime reference number

:40:56.:40:57.

and then got back to me ten minutes later, "Actually, it's not

:40:58.:41:01.

really a crime, it's You should be looking

:41:02.:41:03.

to getting a solicitor." I was, like, OK, I'll

:41:04.:41:06.

get a solicitor. Got a solicitor and they said,

:41:07.:41:08.

"It's more of a criminal case, the police should be

:41:09.:41:11.

dealing with it." So I thought, no-one's

:41:12.:41:13.

going to help me. How did you feel, Charley,

:41:14.:41:15.

how did you feel when you heard It's not as if they were just

:41:16.:41:19.

put on a porn website, just photos, it was what he had

:41:20.:41:24.

written that was more Having a person walk free and be

:41:25.:41:27.

able to get on with their life, maybe meet someone one day,

:41:28.:41:32.

and know nothing about it, They, "It's OK, because he deleted

:41:33.:41:35.

the pictures of you off his I said it's not OK, that is not OK

:41:36.:41:44.

that they have been deleted Why do you think that it wasn't

:41:45.:41:50.

taken more seriously? Because he hadn't physically done

:41:51.:41:56.

anything, I think. Is that the issue, do you think,

:41:57.:41:58.

that revenge porn is a new crime, it has only been enforced

:41:59.:42:06.

for a year, police forces don't know Yeah, it's like there's not enough

:42:07.:42:09.

knowledge within this area. Which is a shame, really,

:42:10.:42:18.

because now cases like this are not One of the issues is that none

:42:19.:42:22.

of the pictures of you three were sexually explicit

:42:23.:42:28.

in their nature. You were not naked, they were just

:42:29.:42:30.

social media photos. I know he did upload some naked

:42:31.:42:34.

photos of other girls. Does that make a difference

:42:35.:42:37.

in your eyes, Nikki? I think it makes a difference

:42:38.:42:40.

for us, justice-wise, because we are in that weird

:42:41.:42:45.

catchment, they are not naked, so he can't get done for putting

:42:46.:42:48.

naked photos of us online. They are ones we have

:42:49.:42:51.

uploaded to a public forum, so you want anybody to see them,

:42:52.:42:55.

that the way he has treated them, In a way, it has made it harder

:42:56.:42:58.

to fight our case. At the same time, people

:42:59.:43:04.

just hear revenge porn, and they think we have sent

:43:05.:43:06.

photos of us to him, nude. I'm in a rollneck

:43:07.:43:09.

in one of my photos. Do you feel, Charley,

:43:10.:43:12.

as violated as if somebody had put Because he has made those innocent

:43:13.:43:19.

pictures, now every time I look at them,

:43:20.:43:27.

that is all I can of. Sussex Police said,

:43:28.:43:29.

when I look at this, that a few of the reasons

:43:30.:43:39.

they just gave him a caution was that he had shown remorse and,

:43:40.:43:42.

also, that he had deleted It didn't change my opinion

:43:43.:43:45.

on the whole situation at all. If anything, I just thought

:43:46.:43:55.

it was more of a joke situation that that is how they can just let him

:43:56.:43:59.

get away with it, just It doesn't matter that they are

:44:00.:44:03.

being viewed by thousands of men, Actually in the year that revenge

:44:04.:44:08.

porn has been a crime, the majority of cases have ended

:44:09.:44:25.

in no action being taken. Do you think this is still seen

:44:26.:44:30.

as something people can get away with, and something

:44:31.:44:34.

that girls like you We looked at as if we are just

:44:35.:44:37.

being silly, taking it to the extremes,

:44:38.:44:52.

taking it too personally. Charley, what do you think needs

:44:53.:44:54.

to happen to support girls People need to be aware

:44:55.:44:56.

that there are so many different types of revenge porn, it can go

:44:57.:45:03.

from innocent photos, like us, As we're are not actually naked,

:45:04.:45:05.

nobody takes it seriously. It needs to be discussed

:45:06.:45:10.

and the police need to be more aware It's my brother, I've lost part

:45:11.:45:14.

of my family now. It's just been brushed off

:45:15.:45:18.

as if we are just overreacting. Police have said that they are going

:45:19.:45:26.

to look again at your case. It's good that it's

:45:27.:45:29.

going to get reviewed. But it is just sad that it had

:45:30.:45:34.

to take our own action before I don't think that, if we weren't

:45:35.:45:37.

as confident as we are, if we weren't as headstrong

:45:38.:45:43.

that we were going to do this and go for it, I think we would really

:45:44.:45:46.

struggle to get the justice Sussex police have given us

:45:47.:45:49.

the following response: "We recognise the nature

:45:50.:45:55.

of the captions and comments used We took the decision to issue

:45:56.:45:57.

a caution based on all the factors available to us, including

:45:58.:46:03.

the offender's remorse, the nature of the offences

:46:04.:46:04.

and the likelihood of the caution being effective

:46:05.:46:06.

in preventing reoffending. It's important to note that

:46:07.:46:11.

while two of the images were of a sexual nature,

:46:12.:46:14.

the others were taken from social media and were neither

:46:15.:46:16.

explicit nor indecent. This decision fits

:46:17.:46:18.

the national framework We have contacted the website

:46:19.:46:19.

to request the images be removed." Four days, 500 athletes, a dozen

:46:20.:46:33.

events, a first lady and a Prince - today marks the final day

:46:34.:46:36.

of the Invictus Games. Founded by Prince Harry in 2014,

:46:37.:46:38.

the games are open to all wounded, injured and sick serving

:46:39.:46:41.

personnel and veterans. The competitive spirit has been high

:46:42.:46:44.

from the start with this video of the Queen and her

:46:45.:46:47.

grandson going viral. The American man here, he was

:46:48.:47:10.

incredibly fast. Oh, a message. It's from the shelves. How very amusing.

:47:11.:47:14.

Shall we watch it together? -- it's from Michelle. Remember when you

:47:15.:47:22.

told us to bring it up the Invictus Games? Careful what you wish for!

:47:23.:47:26.

Really? Please! ! Well, Prince Harry got a surprise

:47:27.:47:31.

when he presented the 100 metre freestyle gold swimming medal

:47:32.:47:34.

to an American soldier. After the Prince placed

:47:35.:47:36.

the medal around the neck of Sergeant Elizabeth Marks,

:47:37.:47:38.

she asked him to return it to Papworth Hospital in Cambridge,

:47:39.:47:40.

as a thank you for saving her life. Sergeant Marks was treated

:47:41.:47:43.

there on the eve of the first games in 2014 in London,

:47:44.:47:47.

when she collapsed with She won all four swimming events

:47:48.:47:49.

she entered at this year's games. The UK has sent a team of 110

:47:50.:48:00.

to Orlando, Florida and we can speak now to Petty Officer Sean Gaffney,

:48:01.:48:04.

who has won four medals. You are proudly wearing them,

:48:05.:48:12.

congratulations. Good morning, thank you. That is a great achievement for

:48:13.:48:19.

you. Tell us how important these games are to you? Immeasurably

:48:20.:48:29.

important. It is a huge honour to be here, competing, not only for my

:48:30.:48:33.

country, but with fellow servicemen from around the world who have

:48:34.:48:36.

overcome such huge obstacles to be here. It is not just the games, it

:48:37.:48:42.

is being in the hotel with them, it is relaxing by the pool with them.

:48:43.:48:46.

It is bringing a whole family together. What have you overcome,

:48:47.:48:52.

what were your injuries? I was initially injured in 1999. I was

:48:53.:49:00.

training to be part of a group that were computing at Earls Court.

:49:01.:49:03.

Unfortunately, I have a sporting injury on my foot. After four

:49:04.:49:11.

months, it had to be removed due to septicaemia. Then it was a fight to

:49:12.:49:17.

get fit enough to stay serving with the Royal Navy and continue on

:49:18.:49:20.

operational deployments around the world. The term Invictus means

:49:21.:49:32.

unconquered, you had your foot amputated and had cancer in the same

:49:33.:49:38.

12 months and it didn't beat you? Invictus sums it up perfectly. I

:49:39.:49:45.

know it only came along in 2014, thanks to Prince Harry, but the idea

:49:46.:49:50.

of being unbeaten, not stopping or giving up the fight, it would never

:49:51.:49:57.

occur to me. When I had my accident, being surrounded by the service

:49:58.:50:03.

meant that I had been, the only way was to fight on. What does it mean

:50:04.:50:07.

for you and everybody else that Prince Harry is doing this, that he

:50:08.:50:12.

is getting behind you guys and sending out a very powerful message

:50:13.:50:17.

about what you can do? Sorry, could you say that again? What does it

:50:18.:50:21.

mean to you and everybody else that Prince Harry has done this and is

:50:22.:50:24.

getting behind you all in such a public way, saying, look what these

:50:25.:50:35.

people can do? Again, it is... Without Prince Harry, we would not

:50:36.:50:38.

be sat here, without his drive, ambition and passion for the

:50:39.:50:43.

servicemen, and he is a servicemen, without him, without his background,

:50:44.:50:49.

without his knowledge of who we are and what were capable of, this would

:50:50.:50:54.

not happen. Did have a moment when you lost your foot, when you feared

:50:55.:50:57.

that your career in the military might be over? I was about 28 years

:50:58.:51:14.

of age, full of foolish Corrado. -- foolish bravado. I found out that

:51:15.:51:22.

staying in the Navy with one leg, it is not as romantic as it seems, and

:51:23.:51:26.

it requires some work. Luckily, they gave me the chance to prove that I

:51:27.:51:31.

could do it. They let me stay and I had a full and fantastic career

:51:32.:51:35.

since. Well done to you. Thanks for joining us. Enjoy the rest of the

:51:36.:51:39.

games. Almost over, but a bit more to enjoy. Thank you.

:51:40.:51:45.

Let's talk about the BBC. What do you want from the BBC and how should

:51:46.:51:51.

be run? Later this morning, the government will reveal how it thinks

:51:52.:51:55.

a future BBC should look. One thing being suggested is that any stars

:51:56.:52:00.

earning more than ?450,000 should be named and their salaries made

:52:01.:52:03.

public, which could include people like Gary Lineker and Graham Norton.

:52:04.:52:07.

Culture Secretary John Whittingdale is also expected to announce plans

:52:08.:52:12.

to abolish the BBC Trust, the people that govern the BBC, and replace it

:52:13.:52:16.

with a new board. The proposals are also expected to say the licence fee

:52:17.:52:20.

will continue for at least another 11 years. In future, only those who

:52:21.:52:24.

pay the licence fee will be able to use BBC iPlayer. One of the people

:52:25.:52:30.

whose salaries would be published is Chris Evans. In the last few minutes

:52:31.:52:36.

he was asked how he would feel. I don't have an opinion either way, if

:52:37.:52:40.

it is, it is, if it isn't, it isn't. It is nothing to do with me, I do

:52:41.:52:44.

what I do, I get paid what I get paid, I love my job. My dad was a

:52:45.:52:49.

wages clerk, my mother was a nurse, my sister was a teacher, my brother

:52:50.:52:53.

is a nurse, they work in the real world. We know none of them get paid

:52:54.:52:57.

what they should get paid. Show business is ridiculous. If you are

:52:58.:53:04.

doing a job where the end result is that you make money for another

:53:05.:53:07.

company, then that can be reflected in your wages. But a lot of people,

:53:08.:53:15.

a lot of BBC shows are brilliant because of the way they are

:53:16.:53:19.

produced, the way they are written, the way they are filmed. It is not

:53:20.:53:25.

really about who hosts them. You could get a lot of people to host

:53:26.:53:29.

them and the shows would still be successful because the base product

:53:30.:53:30.

is of such quality. Would you say that salaries like he

:53:31.:53:46.

was not helping the case of the BBC? Again, that is a management thing, a

:53:47.:53:50.

long-term, philosophical thing. I'm being very honest, my thought

:53:51.:53:55.

process, I haven't got there yet, I can only deal with what I think. I

:53:56.:53:59.

have always had an opinion about show business. I've been in

:54:00.:54:03.

negotiations with celebrities about how much they get paid, because I

:54:04.:54:08.

produce programmes. I often say, why are we paying them this much, why

:54:09.:54:13.

can't we get to be else? Are you worried your salary will go down? Do

:54:14.:54:20.

I look worried? No, I am not worried, I love my job and I don't

:54:21.:54:24.

do it for the money, I do it because I love it and I think it makes a

:54:25.:54:27.

little bit of a difference, not much as a difference as some other

:54:28.:54:31.

people's jobs, but I think it helps a little bit. The BBC is worried

:54:32.:54:35.

that people like you will get poached if salaries are disclosed,

:54:36.:54:39.

what you think about that? I do my job here because I think it is the

:54:40.:54:44.

best place to do what I do for a living. Anybody could offer me... It

:54:45.:54:47.

is not a money thing, I don't come to work for it. Lets talk to Chris

:54:48.:54:55.

Curtis, the editor of Broadcast Magazine. Talking there about the

:54:56.:54:58.

fact that his salary is likely to be published, what do you think about

:54:59.:55:03.

the salaries and the fact that the level is ?450,000? Potentially

:55:04.:55:07.

awkward for the BBC, if you think about any normal working

:55:08.:55:10.

environment, salaries are closely guarded. The BBC already reveals how

:55:11.:55:16.

much it pays senior staff, the director general, the controllers of

:55:17.:55:19.

different channels etc. Those figures are out in the public

:55:20.:55:26.

domain. They have always resisted talent salaries being published. It

:55:27.:55:29.

can be awkward, it could lead to people being poached. It could lead

:55:30.:55:34.

to people to drive salaries down. The BBC is nervous about anything

:55:35.:55:37.

that might make it harder for them to secure the right people to front

:55:38.:55:41.

the shows. What you think about the fact it has been pegged at that

:55:42.:55:47.

level, other salaries are published at 150,000? Yes, talent pay in

:55:48.:55:53.

television, entertainment in general, is really high. There are

:55:54.:55:57.

other areas where it is high. Footballers earn more than managers

:55:58.:56:01.

do. Film stars earn more than the directors do. In this case,

:56:02.:56:06.

on-screen talent will earn more than the people that run the BBC. I think

:56:07.:56:14.

that there is no... All of this at the moment is to do with the

:56:15.:56:20.

relation that the BBC has to the commercial sector. Part of it is to

:56:21.:56:24.

try and ensure that the BBC is paying stars and appropriate amount

:56:25.:56:28.

of money, compared to the commercial sector. The public will not have

:56:29.:56:32.

visibility of the commercial sector. Let's talk about governance of the

:56:33.:56:37.

BBC and the BBC trust, the body that oversees the BBC if anybody

:56:38.:56:41.

complains, the BBC trust looks at those issues. A new body which will

:56:42.:56:45.

have some Government appointees on it, we're not sure at the moment

:56:46.:56:48.

what the level would be, possibly 50%. What do you think? That is a

:56:49.:56:53.

very controversial issue. The BBC Trust has been in existence for the

:56:54.:56:59.

existence of this -- duration of this charter. There is not a huge

:57:00.:57:03.

amount of support for it. It's incredibly likely it will be

:57:04.:57:08.

disbanded. Is it something the public care about particularly? I

:57:09.:57:11.

don't think the public care too much about which organisation regulates

:57:12.:57:15.

the BBC, but they wanted to be regulated properly. You were really

:57:16.:57:18.

have comments earlier. There is a vast range of public opinion. By and

:57:19.:57:23.

large, the independent research that is done, independent and by the BBC,

:57:24.:57:31.

there is a lot of latent goodwill, generally, the public likes what the

:57:32.:57:35.

BBC does. But it has to be held accountable, to make sure that it is

:57:36.:57:40.

spending its money wisely. The Trust has fallen between two stools,

:57:41.:57:45.

between cheerleader and regulator. So it wants a unitary board, which

:57:46.:57:51.

has a more hands-on role in holding BBC managers to account, that looks

:57:52.:57:56.

like the route they will go down. But who sits on it? What is their

:57:57.:58:00.

experience, their credentials? Trying to judge programme's'

:58:01.:58:09.

distinctiveness, scheduling, those things require nuance. We are

:58:10.:58:13.

heading fast to the moment when the Culture Secretary starts to speak.

:58:14.:58:16.

We can take a peek inside the Commons. He is not there yet.

:58:17.:58:25.

Coverage is coming up on Bbc Newsroom Live. Have a lovely

:58:26.:58:29.

afternoon. Bye-bye.

:58:30.:58:31.

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