30/06/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

Mr Corbyn for the top job. At a rally last night, Mr Colburn was

adamant he was staying on, and he was heckled.

CROWD MEMBER: What about Europe? Where were you when we needed you?

It wasn't my wish, and it wasn't the wish, I suspect,

It is mobilising people, free thinking and ideas

in order to concentrate those into policies that can actually

improve the lives of everybody in our society.

That is why we contested the leadership of this party a year ago

and why I am very proud to be carrying on with that work.

general secretary of the Public and Commercial Services Union.

And Ayesha Hazarika, she's a former Labour spin doctor

who worked with Ed Miliband during last year's general election.

She wants to see Mr Corbyn step down.

James Schneider is from Momentum, the Labour grassroots network group,

which supports Jeremy Corbyn. And Ann Coffey is one of the two Labour

MPs who tabled the motion of no-confidence in Jeremy Corbyn.

According to the Times, Jeremy Corbyn wants to go, but those close

to him stopping that - do you believe that? No, and I've spoken to

his office and to Jeremy in the last couple of days, and I think that is

just a rumour that is being spread around to add to the

destabilisation. Jeremy is determined to stand in an election,

he believes he knows that to the hundreds of thousands of people who

have voted for him. For anyone who says he is not a leader, I would

suggest that the courage he has shown in this last few weeks really

does mark him out, that he is an exceptional leader, and he wants to

be able to lead the Labour Party, to challenge the Tories in these very

uncertain times. You will know that Ed Miliband, the formerly do, is

calling for Mr Corbyn to stand down, reluctantly, he says. The issues

that he stands for will be better served if he goes and Labour can get

on acting with a proper opposition party. The problem is that Labour

were not an effective opposition party under Ed Miliband, or indeed

not that effective in the days of the Gordon Brown government. And

they are effective now? They did not have the right policies then... They

are effective now? They would be if the MPs in Parliament got behind

their leader and allowed him to articulate what the British people

have not yet heard, an alternative to austerity, building billions of

council houses, giving kids an opportunity to have an education.

But you need to be a leader of the Parliamentary party and the members,

and Mr Corbyn is only the leader of one half of the party, isn't he? In

the long run, it would be unsustainable, but I would hope that

the MPs, 172 of them, standing as Labour candidates, not standing with

a mandate to try to destabilise their leader, who has a more

individual votes than any of its predecessors, and I think that now

that there will be an election, I have to say I welcome the fact that

we can get away from an unDemocratic coup by 172 MPs, we can allow party

members to decide what they want, and I think Jeremy will win that

election, and I believe those MPs must now knuckle down and support

their leader, or ask themselves what their position is. As a former

Labour spin doctor, Jeremy Corbyn could win this election - should he

stand down in case he wins it for a second time? I think there is a

chance, a good chance that Jeremy could still win, although I have to

say that there is anecdotal evidence that some of that support is

softening, and a lot of members are upset about the EU referendum

campaign, expressing a sense of buyers Morse. But he could win, but

at what cost? What cost would a pyrrhic victory be? Why would it be

a pyrrhic victory? What would happen is you cannot demand the respect of

MPs, you have to earn it. But if he gets a second mandate from the

members... It would be a victory, it would be a victory, but if you

cannot command the respect of your MPs, that is tough. My worry for the

future of the Labour Party, because I think there will be an election

sooner than people think, and at the moment I think we are losing support

in core working-class areas. I think that we stand the risk of losing up

to about 100 seats. I think mark is right, the policies that Jeremy

stands for quite acceptable, I do not think there is an ideological

divide in the country. Lots of MPs want to fight for what you sing, the

album and you make, but they want somebody who is really good at

making those are given scholar who can really connect with the

working-class people in the north. I do not think Jeremy is the right

man. -- those arguments. There has been some polling showing that

Labour is just neck and neck, head of the Tories. We don't really

believe them now, do we? Apparently we only believe them when we see

that Labour are losing votes. We have been told for ten months that

he cannot be elected, that we are going to lose old until you give,

for backwards in other by-elections, blues hundreds of council seats. --

lose instead of trashing our party, they should have come up with a

programme, done it through the open route, do not try to have a coup,

respect the members, and we will see what they want. The way it has

happened in the last five days, yes, many members are really upset about

the EU referendum, I am really upset about the EU referendum, but the

level of absurd, disappointment and anger over the last five days cannot

be underestimated. -- the level of upset. What it Jeremy Corbyn beats

Angela Eagle in this next contest? I have had a lot of e-mails about this

issue, as you can imagine, and I have had very interesting comments

from people who say to me, I voted for Jeremy, reluctantly I cannot

vote for him again... But what if he wins? I don't think he will win. And

if he does? If he wins, he wins, and then we have to look where we are to

there, but I don't think he will win win. If he does, he will be even

stronger, arguably, it would be the second mandate within a year, two

leadership contests to be the top man of the Labour Party. But as

Members of Parliament, we have a mandate from the electorate. We have

the mandate of the 9 million voters who voted for us, and when I have

been knocking on people's doors, both for Gordon Brown, Ed Miliband

and Jeremy, for Gordon, they expressed dislike, we lost the

election. For Ed, it was more hostile and we lost that election to

a majority government. And on the doorsteps, people say to me, Labour

voters say to me, if you have Jeremy as your leader at the next election,

we will not... For you. It is completely irresponsible to put the

Labour Party in a position of facing electoral oblivion. All right, Mark

Serwotka, Alec will oblivion if Jeremy Corbyn continues as Labour

leader. -- electoral oblivion. He can win the next general election.

Any evidence you will get an approach from Scotland or the North

of England, which Labour needs to win the general lecture? There have

been four by-elections and Jeremy, or have been one, three with

increased majorities. -- all have been won. The Tories are trashing

the country, Jeremy has an alternative politics... Is he in

touch with people on the issues of immigration? Is he in touch with

people on the issues of the defence of our nation? I think absolutely he

is, and you know why? Because he is prepared to do what most politicians

do not seem to do, they gave positive case for immigration. But

he has not acknowledged that Labour voters and ex Labour voters have

anxieties about the freedom of movement. Yes, there are anxieties,

and Labour has lost voters to Ukip, he wants to invest in public

services... But he has not acknowledged that Labour voters are

anxious about the free movement of people. Labour voters are worried

about a lack of spending, public services... Net migration is the

question I'm asking you. Asking about migration, when we have had

deprivation in communities is one thing. Asking questions about, for

example, when I had heart surgery, I am waiting for a transplant, by

Chinese cardiologist with an Indian surgeon, with an Eastern European

junior doctor we all know they do sterling work. My dad is a doctor,

my brother is a doctor. Politicians are not making the positive case for

immigration, Jeremy will make that positive case. Then he's not

listening to Labour voters, that would seem to be a dereliction of

duty. The reason I disagree with that... You not listening either?

What I hear from members, 11 years of pay restraint, kids cannot afford

houses because they cannot get onto the housing ladder and there are no

council houses, it is easy to blame immigration when we are starved of

public spending. If we invest in our communities, public services, a lot

of that adamant will recede. The problem we have got at the moment, I

think, is that Jeremy wants to make a positive case, but he has been

prevented from doing so by the coup. Now that we're going to have an

election, I welcome that, I think Jeremy will win. When he goes to the

country is able to set out an anti-austerity, pro-public services,

pro-investment agenda, do you know what? I think it will be so

incredibly positive that the Tories will have to worry about the mess

they have made. Former Labour spin doctor, do you

buy that? No. The Labour Party was very united in terms of leadership.

Jeremy went on holiday a couple of weeks before the vote, that is not

leadership. If Jeremy stays, there will be a general election, we will

lose about 100 seats, we will have a Tory majority and we will herald a

large number of Ukip MPs coming in. I don't want to see that happen. I

think we are fighting for the survival of the Labour Party. I know

that different people have different views. One thing, to make weeks ago,

we were praising the work that MPs didn't talking after the death of Jo

Cox about how important MPs are, and now there views are being dismissed

as if they are bad, rotten people. They work hard for the labour

movement. Secondly, I know there are lots of new people coming into the

party, and that is fine, what I don't want the Labour Party not to

exist. I don't want a Tory- run state. I am begging everybody, the

Labour Party cannot be allowed to fall apart. A final point, if Jeremy

Corbyn wins, can you see the Labour Party splitting? Would you consider

leaving? PHONE RINGS

If Jeremy Corbyn wins his election as leader, we will go into the next

-- would you consider leaving? If Jeremy Corbyn wins the election as

leader we will go into the next election with him as leader. Thank

you for joining us. Back to the Conservatives, and

Michael Gove has announced that he wants to be the next leader of the

Conservative Party, and also Prime Minister, which was the shock news

about two hours ago. They used to say a week was a long time in

politics, now it is about a minute. We are waiting for the official

announcement from the full ormer Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, who

had been expecting Michael Gove's support. Boris Johnson is expected

to announce that he is standing. We were told it would be at about

quarter to 11. There are two prominent Leave campaigners up

against each other. Theresa May has put her hat in the ring, having

campaigned to stay in the EU. Let's speak to Baroness Parsee. -- Warsi.

How do you react to Theresa May's leadership bid? Yellow might she

gave a brilliant speech. All the points about her experience, her

humour, the way she engages with members of Parliament, provision for

the party. A few days ago, I put out about 13 questions that I said all

future leadership contenders should answer, and I think she answered

about 80% of them. The most powerful point she made was that those of us

in Westminster need to look beyond Westminster and realise this is not

a game. It is time for politicians to layout very clearly what their

view is. In terms of the negotiations and no sector end and,

a very good lunch. What about the news that Michael

Gove also wants to be the next leader of your party and the next

Prime Minister? I am quite surprised. I thought he was in

this... Once David resigned, I thought it was the end of the

matter. I was quite surprised that he announced his candidature. I am

also surprised at what he said. He talks about healing and speaking for

all and bringing the country together, and really, from my

experience of Michael and his approach towards teachers and the

legal profession, and certain minorities, that is not the Michael

I recognise. What about the fact that in his statement is he really

undermined the character and credibility of his very close Leave

campaigner, Boris Johnson? Quote, I have come reluctantly to the

conclusion that Boris Johnson cannot provide the leadership or build the

team for the task ahead. I don't know how he came to that conclusion.

For me, I want to the back to what I have been saying. This is about the

issues, the politics of politics, which is what this EU referendum

started to become. It is what upset and concerned me about the Leave

campaign. Politicians make these statements, Victoria. We ratchet up

the rhetoric about immigration, and then real people feel the

consequences on the streets. One of the biggest thing that I have asked

leadership contenders to do is to run positive campaigns, to set out a

vision for the party and the country, and to pledge that, going

forward, they will not run the type of divisive, xenophobic campaign is

that we saw the party sadly run during the May oral election and

during the EU referendum. We have seen increased hate crime on the

streets which you and the media have been reporting consistently since

the Brexit result. Let's bring in Michael fabricant, who voted to

leave and is backing... Did you know he was going to throw his hat in the

ring? I did not know he was going to. I knew was a possibility. I and

many others were persuading him hard to do just that. Why? I think his

purpose and his logical mind, clarity of thought, are precisely

what we need in a Prime Minister, particularly in this difficult

period where we negotiate our Brexit. Let me bring in Conservative

MP Damian Green. You are supporting Theresa May - why? I think she is

the best person for the job. She has shown in office that she is tough

and can take decisions, can implement difficult negotiations.

And the vision she has set out, which is of a conservatism that

helps people who are not privilege, if you like, at the bottom of the

economic heap. I have always believed in that. Do you think she

was vague on net migration when she was asked about free movement of

people? No, because immigration is clearly a huge issue, and it is

difficult to bring it down while at the same time making sure that we

get the people we want in this country who can contribute to our

economy and society. I think we now have the added element of what kind

of relationship we will have in terms of movement from other EU

countries. I can't think of anyone better to do that job than Theresa

May. She is already a master the details and is well ahead of the

candidates in that regard. Michael, what about the fact that Michael

Gove will be accused of some -- by some of stabbing Boris Johnson in

the back? I don't know who will accuse him of that, apart from

possibly Boris Johnson. People watching the programme as we broke

the news have done that. At the end of the day, I supported Boris

Johnson originally, but only because I thought it was important that he

have a steady rock behind him in the shape of Michael Gove. Quite

clearly, Michael Gove has been unable to have confidence in Boris's

ability to form an effective team. I always wanted Michael to stand on

his own anyway. He has a steeliness of purpose and clarity of mind,

which we really need in the next two three years. Showmanship alone is

not going to be enough. I welcome this move. Even though he has always

said he had absolutely no ambitions for the top job, do you trust a man

that changes his mind at the last minute? I don't want to draw

comparisons because it might not work well for Michael Gove, but I

remember Margaret Thatcher said more or less the same thing. Many people

would say that she was an amazing Prime Minister. Thank you very much,

all of you. It is one week since that historic Brexit vote. So much

has happened since then. How do voters feel one week on? Kate

Fanning is in Manchester. In the studio, Bupinder and Fahad. They

voted to leave. 'S in Salford, John Murphy regrets voting Remain and

thinks that Leave is the best outcome. You are a retired

businessman. Why do you think we should have voted leave? I voted

because of my wallet, my heart said that I should Vote Leave. I was a

subject of project fear, to be honest. But I regret it now. Leaving

is the best we can do. You don't need to regret it because it was

Leave in the end, so it is fine for you? Yes, fine. Very happy.

Bupinder, you are in your 30s. You're from East London. Are you

still dancing on an hour because of the result? Not dancing. Tell me

why. I think it is people power, autonomy, a bit of freedom. Cameron

went to Europe, the Europeans didn't take him seriously, and now they

have to take everybody seriously. You don't look that happy, if you

don't mind me saying, in the fact that you one. -- that you won. I am

a quiet optimist. That is better than being jubilant. Everything has

started to go to plan, the markets have stabilised. If you look at

Jaguar Land Rover and the success of that, the foreign markets, the

Commonwealth. I am quietly optimistic. Katie, Bupinder is

quietly optimistic, what about you? I am ecstatic as I have we -- I

think we have a great future with more control over trade and borders.

More important league, we have our freedom and democracy and

sovereignty back. -- most importantly. Fahad, what about you?

I am happy. Thank you for your company. We are back tomorrow.

MUSIC: Jupiter, from The Planets, by Gustav Holst

MUSIC: West Side Story, by Leonard Bernstein

MUSIC: Romeo And Juliet, by Tchaikovsky