08/07/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Friday, it's 9 o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling,

Five police officers are killed when snipers open fire at a protest

in Dallas against the shooting dead of two black men.

Several more police are critically wounded.

I was walking, and the sniper just started shooting,

and all of the cops are getting shot.

I just saw the cops bending over, there were five or six cops,

Three suspects are in custody, but police are exchanging fire

and negotiating with a fourth suspect who has threatened

There are unconfirmed reports that a fourth suspect has shot himself. We

are continuing to ask for the support of the public. I can tell

you I have never been more proud of being a police officer and being a

part of this great and noble profession. This is the scene from

downtown Dallas, Texas. We'll bring you the very latest

on this fast-moving story. And we'll be speaking to a Polish

family living in fear after their garden shed was set

alight, and this death threat Do get in touch on all the stories

we're talking about this morning - use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE,

and if you text, you will be charged "They planned to kill as many

officers as they could" - the words of the chief of police

of Dallas in Texas after five of his officers were shot dead

when snipers opened fire during a protest

against police violence. Six others were injured,

some critically. Somebody is really are armed to the

teeth. This is not... This is not one person.

That was the moment shots rang out as the snipers fired

You can see one of the snipers in these pictures firing shots,

and the sound of police sirens wailing in the distance.

Later on in this video, you see the sniper shoot someone

who appears to be a police officer at point blank range -

we aren't showing you those images because they are so graphic.

It happened at a Black Lives Matter protest following the fatal shooting

of two black men by white police officers in Louisiana and Minnesota.

Before the shots rang out, the protests were peaceful.

These people described what they saw.

I was walking, and the sniper just started shooting,

and all of the cops are getting shot.

I just saw the cops bending over, there were five or six cops,

It was right after the rally, we were just walking to the car.

All the cops... How many?

We were running, they just kept shooting, we don't know

But I didn't see anybody else get shot, it was just the cops.

I didn't see nobody else get shot but the cops.

I am in downtown Dallas, and it appears the Police Department is

ending this five-hour stand-off, with the snipers in the building

here. We understand that the individual actually shot himself.

About 45 minutes ago, police set of flash grenades inside the building

behind me, which actually a local community college. They set those

flash grenades of in the hope of disorientating this individual. When

it happened, apparently there were were effective, and police have got

inside and apparently the individual is deceased from a self-inflicted

gunshot. Talk us through what it was like as this unfolded and how people

were reacting? This was one of quite a few protest marches which were

happening all across the country. Dallas has had several of these in

the last few years, as these high-profile police shootings have

happened across the country. Fortunately none have happened here.

As the protest march has happened, the police officers are out here to

protect the marchers, so they can walk through the streets and go

through the intersections and make sure they are not hit by any traffic

or anything. So these officers, protecting the protest is, were

ambushed when at least one, perhaps more, snipers, opened fire on them.

-- the protesters. It is horrific, nothing like this has happened in

the 26 years I have been in journalism, where you have 11

officers shot, five dead. It is something the city is trying to get

its head around right now. Even the mayors 90 minutes ago, telling

people, don't come to work tomorrow in downtown Dallas, because much of

downtown remains a crime scene. It will be ours, perhaps through

Friday, until they get the area cleared and collect the evidence.

Jason were you actually there covering the story anyway when the

shots were first fired warning I am wondering what reaction there was in

the crowd and amongst police when the first shots were fired? Yes, I

was not physically here when the first shots were fired. I have

talked to quite a few people, I have seen the video, I have talked to

quite a few journalists who were here rolling when this happened.

Everyone tells me the march was winding down, they were almost

finished with it and they were walking back to where it began, and

that's when the shots rang out. It was uncertain where the threat was

coming from, but there was a volley of shots every few minutes.

Obviously, this has been unfolding in the last few hours, so very much

the focus has been on what has been happening there. Perhaps more than

why. Is there a sense that this is certainly anti-police, or is it the

possibility of this being a terrorist action? Not as far as we

know right now. The White House has reached out to the mayor of this

city. This is clearly anti-police. It changes the entire paradigms of

this conversation in this country. Never before in this situation,

nationwide, in the United States, have we had an attack on police like

this. So this will clearly change what is being done, response, and

I'm curious to know whether we will have many other protests like this,

whether the police will even allow this. And obviously, we are seeing

police behind you dealing with this - very difficult now doubtful police

to be killing with an incident in which were that they have been the

target? It is. I was walking up to the scene here in the minutes after

it happened - several police were angry, upset and yelling,

understandably, realising their colleagues had been shot. I have

seen officers hugging out here. This is something the city of Dallas has

purposely tried to avoid. The city Police Department has made it a

point not to pull over people, say, with broken tail-lights, not to

engage people, they have seen what has happened in the country, and

this city has hoped to avoid that. But clearly it did not happen

tonight. This city will be waking up in five or six hours to a tragedy.

As you say, this has been going on through the night. Have you been

able to gauge much of a sense of the reaction that there has been in the

city? I have talked to a handful of protesters who were out here. Many

of them are still out here, they can't go home yet. Even the

protesters were denouncing this. They said they were out here trying

to stand up for black lives, specifically, but they respect all

lives. They don't want to see anybody get hurt. We have heard from

the Attorney-General of the state, from the mayor, local politicians,

even the White House. Whether this country is ready to address this

issue, when and how the politicians addressed this, that is something a

lot of people will be watching and curious to see how it unfolds. I

spoke to Jason about ten minutes ago. We have been unable to confirm

those reports which he mentioned that a fourth suspect has shot

himself. The latest officially that we have comes from Dallas police

chief David Brown, who has said that three suspects are in custody and

negotiations have been taking place with a fourth at a garage.

Currently we are in negotiations with the suspect involved in these

shootings at the garage of El Centro in downtown Dallas.

This suspect we are negotiating with the last 45 minutes has been

exchanging gunfire with us and not being very cooperative

Before I came here, I asked for plans to end this stand-off,

and as soon as I am done here, I will be presented

In addition to this second-floor garage, as we recap the previous

press release, we have in custody a female who was in the same area

of the El Centro garage, and we followed a Mercedes with two

suspects who had camouflage bags, who officers ended up stopping

on traffic in the Oak Cliff area near Polk and 67,

and they are in custody and being interviewed.

The suspect that we are negotiating with that has exchanged gunfire

with us over the last 45 minutes has told our negotiators that the end

is coming, and he's going to hurt and kill more of us,

meaning law enforcement, and that there are bombs

all over the place in this garage and in downtown,

so we are being very careful in our tactics so that we don't

injure or put any of our officers in harm's way, including

the citizens of Dallas, as we negotiate further.

We still don't have a complete comfort level that we have all

the suspects, so we will continue a very, very rigorous investigation

We are likely to be working throughout the early morning hours

of Friday until we are satisfied that all suspects have been captured

and have had the opportunity to be interviewed so that we can fully

understand what has motivated this attack on our officers.

As I mentioned in the press release before we came out,

one of our officers who was in surgery who we had hopes

would survive passed, bringing the total count

of officers passed away to four - three Dallas police officers and one

We are continuing to ask for the public's prayers

of support and encouragement, but I can just tell you,

I have never been more proud of a police officer and being a part

of this great, noble profession, seeing the courage,

the professionalism and just their grit to stay on the scene

in an area, looking for suspects, knowing that we are vulnerable.

We don't know where they are, and our downtown is very large,

with a lot of high buildings, and some of the stories I have heard

from officers talking about what happened, running

toward gunfire to help the injured officers,

to get them transported to the hospital by patrol car,

not having the time to wait for an ambulance, and just so many

And since he spoke, there has been confirmation that a fifth police

officer was killed in the snipers shooting. And we are still unable to

confirm those reports that a fourth suspect has shot himself dead at the

scene. David Brown there saying that they were still in an unfolded

situation. There are reports that he has shot himself dead. But we are

unable to confirm that at the moment. There has now been news that

one of the police officers killed has been identified. He is

43-year-old Brent Thompson. He joined the Dallas Area Rapid Transit

Force in 2009. His department has issued a statement, which says... As

you can imagine, our hearts are broken. This touches every part of

our organisation. We have received countless extra shows of support and

sympathy from around the world through the evening. We are grateful

for every message. Thank you. That is the first of the police officers

who has been formally identified. The police chief has spoken of two

snipers. He was giving an please call the Dallas Police

Department. Call 911 and give us that

information so that we can bring We also believe that these suspects

have threatened to plant a bomb We have reached out to our federal

law enforcement partners, both the FBI and the ATF,

to help us search for both these suspects, or maybe it is more,

and to do a very thorough search of this area where we believe

there might be a bomb planted. And again, I will quickly take some

questions, but I would like to mind you, we have got one

of the suspects cornered, and I need to get back and take

care of the business Let me finish, and then

we will take the questions. I ask everybody to focus on one

thing right now, and that is the Dallas police officers,

their families, those that are deceased, those that

are in the hospital Let's all come together

and support our police officers. I believe we have got one

of the best forces in the nation, and we've done things with civil

rights in the right way, and we've done it for

the safety of our citizens. So, please, let's come together

right now as a city. There's been huge anger

in the United States after the fatal shootings of two black men

by white police officers. Philando Castile was shot dead

at a traffic stop in Minnesota, on Wednesday, while Alton Sterling

was killed by police a day Both incidents were caught

on camera, reigniting what has become a national debate

about police violence. The incidents prompted US

President Barack Obama to make an emotional appeal

for urgent police reform. When incidents like this occur

there's a big chunk of our fellow citizens that feels as if, because

of the colour of their skin, they are not being treated the same. And

that hurts. And that should trouble all of us. This is not just a black

issue. It's not just an Hispanic issue. This is an American issue

that we should all care about, all fair-minded people should be

concerned. Let me just say, we have extraordinary appreciation and

respect for the vast majority of police officers who put their lives

on the line to protect us every single day. They've got a dangerous

job. It is a tough job. And reacting to today's events,

Texas Senator and former presidential candidate Ted Cruz

who says in a tweet - "May God protect our fallen

heroes and bring peace Our correspondent Peter Bowes

joins me now from Los Angeles. The latest are is there are a number

of reports from local media that the fourth suspect, the person who had

been in a garage for several hours, the police had been trying to

negotiate with this person. He had made various threats saying things

like the end is coming, threatening to go and hurt and kill more police

officers saying that there were bombs all over the place. Local

reports say this person has now killed himself. This is not

confirmed by the Dallas police department. In fact, the last word

that we heard from the police was, I will quote you what they were saying

on the Twitter feed, it's been a devastating night. We are sad to

report a fifth officer has died. That was about an hour ago. We are

still waiting for, if indeed this has happened, still waiting for

confirmation. That would probably bring to an end this tragic night.

The police a few hours ago were saying that the area of downtown

Dallas was still a crime scene and it will probably remain that way for

a number of hours as the investigation continues. People are

being told if you work there don't turn up for work in the morning,

it's still a very sensitive area. We were hearing from the police chief

saying they'll be looking into exactly why this has happened. This

is all very recently unfolding. Is there any sense from police whether

they are certain this was specifically antipolice in the wake

of events that have been happening in the United States or are they

looking at a potential terrorist element? Well, I am sure they're

looking at all likelihoods. They haven't specifically addressed it in

those terms, that it could be linked to the shootings over the last

couple of days. People are putting two and two together saying this was

a protest, a demonstration of people coming out on the streets to express

feelings about what has happened in two separate cities in America

earlier this week and this seems to be targeting local police officers.

Clearly police officers in Dallas who had nothing to do with the

incidents in the other cities. Whether this is a terrorist attack

that's unrelated to other events around America, we don't know. The

police haven't specifically addressed it in those terms. What

reaction has there been more widely to this? Well, this has been

unfolding extremely late at night and a lot of Americans will be

waking up to this news. People who have been talking about it, you

mentioned Senator Ted Cruz tweeted about it, people have been talking

in terms of thoughts for the families and the loved ones of those

police officers who have died. People are not particularly

addressing the potential politics and the debates that are clearly

going to happen over the next few weeks. The time isn't quite right

for that. The focus in Dallas has been on bringing the situation, a

terrifying situation for people involved in this protest, the focus

has simply been on bringing that situation under control and making

the city safe again. This was a protest against the most recent

shootings dead of two black men by white police officers. How sensitive

are race relations in the United States right now? I don't think they

could be more sensitive. It's an acutely difficult situation. I think

people are very much aware of what's happened and this isn't the first

time that incidents like this have happened. There's been a litany of

cases in recent years, very similar circumstances of black men losing

their lives, being shot by police officers and it is a continuing

debate as to why this is happening and we just heard from President

Obama addressing the issue again that there is a large section of

people who live in this country who feel because of the colour of their

skin they're discriminated against, they're not treated the same to use

his words. He said all fire-minded people should be concerned about

this situation. -- all fair-minded people should be concerned about

this situation. It isn't an issue focussed on one particular group,

it's something everyone in this country should be concerned about.

It is palpable living here. The people are concerned. People are

worried, I think. People are fearful when we see things like this

unfolding in major cities like Dallas, fearful of what could happen

next. I think people are acutely aware that there is a major, major

problem here to be resolved. In terms of security going forward,

this has been an attack on police, obviously police are now having to

deal with presumably forces across the nation will be looking at what

they need to do about security potentially? Yes, and there are a

number of demonstrations planned over the next few days during the

weekend in cities around the country. Clearly, in the light of

what's happened in Dallas local police forces will be looking at

those planned gatherings, looking at security issues and perhaps trying

to see what they can learn from what's happened in Dallas. It's an

extremely difficult situation for those police forces. They are

already acutely aware of security considerations and you think about

it and you are almost at a loss to think what more could they do to try

to protect huge crowds of people descending into a city centre to

exercise their democratic right to protest and to make a point and to

express their feelings about a situation. There is only so much

that the authorities can do. Yes, I am sure they will be acutely aware

of it going forward over the next few days especially. For viewers

just joining us, bring us up to date with the latest that you have on

what has unfolded there in Dallas. Well, yes, this unfolded in Dallas

during the evening. It was an otherwise peaceful protest to allow

people, and they were freely doing this, to express feelings about the

shooting dead of two men in two other cities, Minnesota and

Louisiana. This was a peaceful demonstration up until mid-evening

when people started hearing shots that were fired and the police chief

later said he believed that there were a couple of snipers at an

elevated position above the crowd as he described it, who were focussing

particularly on the police officers that they could see below him. In

fact, he used the expression that the individuals involved had

triangulated in different positions aiming their rifles at the crowd on

the ground, in other words, suggesting this had been planned in

some way. That they had some knowledge of the direction of the

protest and the march true the -- and the march through the city

centre. Peter, thank you very much.

That's the latest live from Los Angeles.

John Matthews is a former Dallas police officer and is now executive

director of an organisation which looks at public safety. He has been

giving me his reaction to the shootings. Well, it's absolutely

horrifying what's been unfolding. Well, it is absolutely horrifying,

what's been unfolding. Seeing fellow officers gunned down,

fellow officers targeted in a mass shooting ambush-style attack

like this, it is absolutely unprecedented, and it's a horrific

day for law enforcement I know that you have spoken

to police officers in Dallas. There was chaos when the shooting

was going on, there was panic, there was concern for their fellow

officers, and above all, concern for the safety

of the citizens, and our hearts go out to the family members of those

officers that have lost their lives, and of the officers that were

injured in the line of duty tonight. As you say, obviously police

here are dealing with an incident in which they were targeted,

officers were killed. As a former officer, how difficult

would a situation like that be? It is extremely difficult,

because you are out there trying to do your job,

protecting the public. They were out there guarding

at protecting the demonstrators so that they could have a peaceful

demonstration, and now the protectors of society

have the targets on their back. They are the ones that

are being victimised. These snipers intentionally fired

upon the police, and wanted officers and victims,

and as a mass shooting expert, I can tell you, this is the first

time in the US in the mass shootings that we've had that we have had law

enforcement officers actually targeted in one

of these mass shootings. How concerned are you about

what this says about the faith that some have in the police

in the United States right now? Well, I think we've been working

on police and community relations for a number of years,

I think in law enforcement we have been very proactive in reaching out

to the faith-based community and the very diverse communities

that we have in our cities. I think there is a tremendous amount

of anxiety out there right now, and I think it's being manifested

in ways beyond public discourse, and manifested in ways

like we see tonight, where officers, the protectors

of society, are now becoming targets Officers all across this nation,

not just in Dallas, but everywhere, have got to be on high alert now

at all times in all situations. These protests have come,

not just the protest there, there have been many protests

in the United States, after two fatal shootings

of black men in one week. If you look at the statistics,

they show that if you are black, you are more likely to be

shot dead by the police. Do some police have an issue

with black people? I think the media doesn't report

the entire situation, but we have over 57,000 assaults

on law enforcement officers We average 144 law enforcement

officers killed in the line of duty every single year for the past ten

years, and so I think you need to look at the totality

of the circumstances out there, and in law enforcement,

it is a very, very dangerous profession, and we have officers

that are assaulted and killed almost each and every day,

and yet it doesn't make the national In the specific cases, though,

that are highlighted, and obviously the one particularly

in the spotlight right now is Philando Castile,

because he was shot dead in Minnesota, and his girlfriend

live streamed the aftermath with a police officer holding a gun

through the window of the car as she is saying to the officer,

he was just telling you he was going to produce his ID,

and he did inform you he had a gun Let me tell you, law enforcement is

a very, very stressful job. You are out there trying to protect the

citizens, and yet you are trying to make sure that at the end of every

day, you get to go home each night. Officers coming across suspects with

guns, or individuals who might have guns, yes, with the 900,000 officers

we have out on the street, there might be some missteps. But overall,

the vast majority of law enforcement, they are out there

protecting society and making sure that they get to go home at night.

To those concerns and tensions which you describe make some police

trigger-happy? I think it makes police more aware, if anything, that

may be there's community concerns. I think it makes us aware of the

situation is that we are in and that we have got our guard up.

So in law enforcement I see the entire spectrum of officers that

might be nervous going for a call for service, but I can tell

you I see officers that are reticent about taking their gun out

of their holster, officers that maybe should be

in a deadly force situation, and don't even draw a Taser,

so I think you see the entire spectrum out there.

Again, you have got a small percentage of the population,

about 900,000 of us, protecting 330 million people

You are executive director of the Community Safety Institute.

How does this lack of trust now get dealt with going forward?

I think we need to do a better job in law enforcement.

We have got to be as proactive as possible in reaching out

to our community members and building those bridges

and saying that we are there to protect and serve.

We want to make sure there is trust on both sides of the table.

I think the key message is that we can't do it alone,

that we've got to have community participation if we want to have

safe and secure communities in this country.

Thank you very much, John Matthews, thank you.

And John is a former Dallas police officer as well. Let's remind you of

what we know so far. Five officers have been killed. Six others are

wounded. Three suspects are in custody. And there are unconfirmed

reports that a fourth suspect has shot himself dead.

Gunfire broke out at around 8.45pm local time, when hundreds of people

were gathered to protest against the shooting of two black men this week

by police officers in Louisiana and Minnesota.

Bob Wieland is a former policeman and now a journalist based in Dallas

We have federal officers going through a place where a bomb would

be hoodoo. But they have not found anything yet, we don't think. If

they did, they would either be imploding it on-site or they would

try and remove it. But so far we have not heard of any bombs being

found. But they are being very cautious because one of the suspects

did allude to many bombs being placed. You are a former police

officer, now journalist, based in Dallas. What are your thoughts,

giving your experience and knowledge of where you are, when you see this

sort of incident unfolding, police being targeted by snipers? It's a

tragedy. My heart goes out to both sides in this. The police who, in

many cases, were doing their jobs to the best of their ability, and

somehow lost all of the situation to the point where they had to

discharge their weapon, I feel so sorry for them, because that's not

what they intended to do at the beginning of that engagement, I am

sure. As for the victims and their families, I can only say that the

entire nation is mourning for them, because of the perceived injustice

of it, in that it does seem to have racial overtones. However, most of

the police officers, if you questioned them, they would say,

well, they did not see the colour of the person's skin, they were just

responding to a call. In Dallas, for example, our police chief is black

and we have had several black police chiefs in the past. And many of the

places where these shootings take place are not only black police

officers, lack chiefs had no large percentage of black legislators and

other leaders in the community. But it is an undeniable fact that if you

are black you are more likely to be shot dead by a police officer than

if you are white. And that is giving rise to the kind of tensions we are

seeing now. In your experience, are some police officers racist, is

there an issue? There shouldn't be. And I have associated with police

officers for many years, not tonight, I haven't questioned any of

the officers directly who have been involved in this, because obviously

some of them are still on scene, and it's very hard to get down there. I

have learned that the fifth officer, one of the officers who was wounded,

has died, so the death toll now stands at five. The officers are not

setting out to do anything. They are not what you would think of, with

the Ku Klux Klan in the deep South, with lynchings or fiery crosses.

They are doing a job. Unfortunately they do have recourse to lethal

force. And sometimes, where they use non-lethal force, such as a Taser,

that can cause a suspect to die. And unfortunately, they all carry

weapons, and many of the suspects now, with new, loose and carry laws,

not only in taxes but nationwide, it is more likely that your suspect

will be carrying a weapon. So police have to take that extra caution of

being aware of that. -- in taxes. When you look at the video of the

latest incident, Philando Castile, his girlfriend live streaming it, it

would seem to be the fact that Philando Castile had revealed to the

officer that he had a weapon on his person, there was heightened tension

by the officer that it may be used on him. Do you think if it was a

white person saying that they had a weapon but at the same time they

were getting out their documents, that things would have unfolded in

the same way? That's a really interesting question. And it is one

that that officer himself would have to answer. In a traffic stop, most

of the time, the officers do a little profiling just simply in

order to match up facts, depending on the type of car that the license

plate, whether it is out-of-state, how many people in the car, how beat

up the car is, whether the car reeks of alcohol or marijuana smoke. All

of these things are taken into account. Race is not usually one of

them and should not be one of the things that they take into account.

But if that traffic stop were done properly, the license plate would

have been run, it would have flagged the car as being registered to a

person with a handgun license. If it were her car and she was driving, it

would not come back with a flag. In that case he should have immediately

identified himself as a handgun carrier. Instead of just saying, I

have a gun, and she is screaming, he has a licence to carry, that he

should have been the one, immediately, as soon as the police

walk up, to show his hands, and he should say, put your hands on the

steering wheel and let the police officer Noel as soon as possible

that you are armed and you are legal to carry a gun. The fact that this

was all live streamed obviously puts a window on a situation which would

not be there without social media. How do you think social media might

change the reaction to events, and also the way police officers might

handle themselves in situations? Social media has opened up the

dealings in many fields, not just police work, but made civilians

aware of many of the things going on in hospitals, operating rooms,

factories, working conditions, a lot of protesters using hidden cameras

and social media to get the message out, whether it is animal rights or

working conditions for migrant workers or whatever. The key here is

for the police to get ahead of the curve and implementing the use of

bodycams so that they can show their side of the story just as quickly as

a victim or perceived victim is able to stream a live stream and make

people aware of what has gone down. That way the police story is out

there. Unfortunately a lot of times the Police Department

administration, or their union representatives or attorneys

Kulasekara let's keep that video until we can sort out the charges

and the rest of it. But by that time the public has already formed an

opinion. That was a former journalist and police officer in

Dallas. Let's bring you some of the reaction that we have had on social

media. This picture of police standing in a line outside the

hospital, saluting their fellow officers who died. One dramatic

image of the night. Elsewhere, Dallas police have treated... It has

been a devastating nice. Night just Matthew Pearce has treated - the

week from hell. Someone else... Oh, dear lord, what have I woken up to?

Someone else - the words of Martin Luther King - violence only

multiplies violence. Someone else has treated - this is now war.

Texas Senator Ted Cruz has just tweeted...

heroes and bring peace upon the City of Dallas."

We will have lots more reaction to that. From ten o'clock we will be

keeping you up-to-date throughout the programme. Any more

developments, we will bring them to you straightaway. Just a reminder of

what we know so far. Five police officers have been killed in Dallas,

Texas, after Snipe -- after snipers opened fire at a protest about the

killing of two black people by police officers. There are

unconfirmed media reports that a suspect in the attacks was involved

in a stand-off with police and is now dead. Three other suspects are

in custody. You can also follow the live page on the BBC News website.

We will keep you up-to-date. A Polish family living in Plymouth

say they fear for their safety after being threatened

and having their shed set alight. As fire raged in their back garden,

they found this note on their doorstep telling them to go

back to Poland and warning, Adam and Gabriela Abamowicz,

who both work in retail, have lived in the house for six

years with their four children and have been

subjected to abuse before, but this is the worst

incident they've suffered. It comes as police across the UK

are reporting a surge in race crimes following Britain's

vote to leave the EU. With me now from her parents' home

is 22-year-old Ewa Banaszak and her parents, Adam

and Gabriela Abalmowicz, who were at home with their four

younger children when the fire Thank you very much for joining us.

Ewa Banaszak, tell us what happened when the house was targeted?

Basically what happened was that around quarter to 12 on Wednesday

night, my sisters which were in the bathroom, which has the overlooking

window to the garden, noticed there was a fire in the garden. They

alerted my parents, who were downstairs in the living room.

Straight dad reacted and ran out to the garden, took a hose and started

to put the fire down. He was trying very hard, but doing it over the top

of the roof did not really help. He opened the doors of the shed and

started to put it down inside the shed. He managed to take it down a

little bit before it did much more damage. As you can see this image

here. It did have consequences on the window, and on some pipes which

are on the house. My younger sister, just 14, when she noticed that the

fire brigade were coming over, she ran out to the streets to see if

there was anyone coming down. When she was coming back, she found that

letter on the doorstep. She opened it and she didn't know what to say.

She was petrified. She was very scared. When she showed it to my

mum, everyone was shocked of how something like this could happen to

the poll that has been living here for such a long time.

You have all been shocked by the letter and the contents of it saying

next time it will be your family, presumably meaning next time the

house will be burned down, not just the shed. Seeing the shed now having

been burned out by fire clearly it was a serious fire there. How

vulnerable are you all feeling right now? The feelings that we go through

are a mix of emotions. Sadness, we are scared. We do know this was a

serious threat. There is something telling us that it might happen

again. We don't know. So there is a mix of emotions especially with

having children in the house, with them crying, it's not obviously

something that we have on everyday basis which is why it's hard to

understand why this happened. Do they feel safe in the house right

now? Because there is so many services helping us out, the police

are involved, the fire investigators are involved, the schools are very

good with providing us with all the help we need. We feel a bit more

secure in the house. We have got alarms. We are reassured by the

police that this will continue for the future, for the future that we

can be reassured that everything will be fine. Obviously, we are

still shocked and in a way scared that this might happen again but I

know everyone is doing what they can to put our minds at ease that this

is being dealt with and that we are safe where we are at the moment. Why

do you think this may have happened? Well, taking it from the note, it

obviously happened because we are from a different country. We are

originally from Poland and we are very proud to be. We have been

living here for such a long time. We consider this our home. People

around us, which are showing so much support now, are proving that to us.

We do think it happened because we are Polish, this is what the note

was indicating. Whether there was any other reason I won't be able to

tell you, there might have been so many other reasons this happened,

but there is nothing that will explain this to us completely,

obviously. Your family has experienced issues

before. Tell us what you have experienced before. It was mostly

verbal. Verbal, it was talking to the children, talking to us to go

back to our country, to get lost, that we don't belong here. We

shouldn't be here. We shouldn't be working or living here. Hence, it is

a surprise that they took action to their words but it's nothing new

that we get abused verbally and that has been going on for a couple of

years. Obviously we have reported that to the police and they have

been acting very well on all the occasions that we have reported it.

Obviously, if sometimes the report is a small matter we won't be

phoning the police on every occasion as there was a couple of things that

we resolved between ourselves and the community. Sometimes it was just

misunderstanding and apart from that, yeah, that's basically it. The

number of hate crimes being investigated by police has gone up

significantly since the referendum result and in some incidents the

referendum has been specifically mentioned. Do you feel things have

changed since the referendum result? Yes, we do. Unfortunately, by

looking at what we are looking at at the moment we feel obviously it's

our own opinion, but we do feel things have got worse since the

referendum. We get a lot more verbal abuse from other people and I know I

have many friends, many Polish friends that live here for a long

time and they've been working here incredibly hard to stay here and to

be the best they can be and to live where they are and unfortunately

this has been going on, not only in Plymouth, but in the UK. We have

Polish communities in almost every city in this country and we do know

this has been going on due to the fact that the referendum and the

vote to leave. Thank you very much for talking to us.

Their home was targeted and the shed set on fire and a hate letter left

behind. . Coming up: Terror on the streets of Dallas as five police

officers are shot dead by snipers. It's a rapidly unfolding situation.

We will bring you the latest live from the city. We are expecting to

hear from President Obama shortly. If he starts to speak about those

events in Dallas overnight we will bring you that as soon as it

happens. We will keep you updated with all the latest developments. We

are still unable to confirm the latest reports that it is over with

the last suspect having shot himself dead. But we are checking those

reports and will keep you updated. More than 2,300 people have signed

a petition calling for homeopathy An open letter being sent today

to the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons asks

for the treatment, which is based on the use of highly diluted

substances claimed to help the body to heal itself, to be blacklisted

from what vets are allowed to offer In a moment we'll speak to Geoff

Johnson a homeopathy vet and member of the British Association

of Homeopathic Veterinary Surgeons and Charlotte Boize whose horse

Geoff treated homeopathically, but first let's chat

to Danny Chambers, who is the vet Thank you for coming in. Why do you

want it banned? All the good quality scientific evidence, this is many

clinical trials over many years and many different conditions, have

failed to show that it has any effect whatsoever. So, the science

tells us that homeopathy does nothing. When it comes to trying to

treat animals that maybe have a condition, for instance has a

disease, they can be treated very successfully with a proven product

that's been licensed to treat that specific condition and you would

expect these animals to live many years of a healthy life and instead

of giving the proven product you then give homeopathy that may lead

to animals being put to sleep unnecessary, it's bad to charge

clients for something that doesn't work. The fact that it is offered

means there is a demand for it. It is being used. In in itself it

doesn't cause any harm and many people believe it works, and there

are people obviously talking to one in a moment who say it has worked

effectively, why should it be banned? I think like I just said, it

is harmful if you are using it in place of proven treatments. You are

effectively withholding treatment if you are giving homeopathy. What it's

used as a last resort which is often when reading case studies that I

have read, it's often described as being a last resort where other

things haven't worked, in that case is it OK? It depends on why you are

giving it. If you are giving it as a last resort because the pet has

unfortunately got some terminal illness, that animal may well be

suffering and if it can't be treated and you are trying to get advice

from a vet, sometimes the kindness thing to do maybe euthanasia or

painkillers. You are giving false hope and charging for something that

will not affect the outcome at the end. When people go to a vet, it's

the same as when you go to a doctor, they're getting advice from someone

who has an accredited degree from an accredited university, they're

wanting advice that's consistent with 21st century medical knowledge.

It seems to me unfair that if you turn up to a vet you might be given

the vet's personal beliefs and therapies that have no basis in

science. As you say, they're well-trained, they've got the

qualifications, intelligent people. So, they've thought it through. What

do you think about the vets who are offering these services that you

disagree with? Well, it's one reason I have targeted this petition to the

Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, because I fully accept all

the h vets really care about animal welfare and doing what they believe

is best. If they won't accept the science it must fall to a third

party to set a minimum standard for veterinary practice which is what

the Royal College aims to do. But I certainly understand their

intentions are very honourable. Stay with us. I want to talk to

Charlotte. You treated your horse with homeopathy medicine. Why did

you do that? I had been to the vet and I had tried traditional routes

and wasn't getting anywhere. I wouldn't say my first port of call

would be homeopathy but I desperately needed to have

additional help and input. I had tried everything else and that's

what I did. What were the problems and tell us what happened once the

homeopathy was used? So It was a home-bred foal, I have had her from

birth, I thought it would be exciting - once she started her work

life, which is gentle to start with, she got a really bad cough which I

allowed her time to get over. It was described as exercise intolerant.

She felt as soon as I started riding her she had no energy and absolutely

listless and was unhappy in herself. I did the traditional things, spoke

to specialists and spoke to the vet. The vet checked her for ulcers. He

did a test on her airways to check she was fine. They checked her heart

rate. Everything about the horse was showing she's absolutely fine and

everything about the horse was telling me she wasn't. To the point

we agreed she wasn't but we didn't know what the problem was. Geoff was

recommended by someone I know who is a very intelligent professional who

works with horses and people as a physio. Geoff obviously is a

qualified vet. So sorry to interrupt you. We are running out of time. We

are going to speak to Geoff now. In a nutshell, you believed that the

homeopathy worked for your horse? By the third pill my horse was looking

pretty well. Let's talk to Geoff. People feel strongly that homeopathy

absolutely does not work. What do you say to Danny who says it should

be banned? The first thing I have to say to Danny, he was saying it

wasn't scientific. Science is where you observe phenomenon occurring and

I have observed over 21 years that many animals respond very well. A

lot of the cases I have is animals that come to me as a last resort

with serious chronic diseases that the conventional vets haven't been

able to help, including specialist centres and a significant proportion

of those I can help or save them. Therefore, to say that it doesn't

work goes against all the experience I have every single day of treating

animals with serious problems day in, day out. There are also good

veterinary trials demonstrating that homeopathy works. One was in piglets

which was statistically significant stopping them having diarrhoea.

There's been two papers published demonstrating that homeopathy can be

effective. Danny, respond to that. Veterinary

trials saying it can be effective? Anecdotal evidence, no matter how

many years you have been using it for doesn't equate to studies that

take into account thousands of animals where you are looking at

objective outcomes. You may feel that the dog is feeling better,

maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Maybe it is because of the homeopathy,

maybe not. That's different to - for instance, the British Association of

Homeopathy Surgeons have case reports of dog cured by cancer, do

you treat cancer and can you cure cancer of with homeopathy in your

practice? I do, that case on the website is one of mine. Three cases

of mine up there and I have several cases going on at the moment. That

is one reason people come to me. If you can get the recommend tee right

and understand the situation and understand the animal well enough,

homeopathy gives it the ability to be able to heal itself. I have

several cases of cancer, well more than several, many cases. So sorry,

we have to stop this discussion right now. I know it's obviously a

subject that excites strong feelings on both sides. You have the petition

going, Danny. Keep us updated. Thank you all very much.

The Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons say they emphasise the

importance of evidence-based veterinary evidence and urge a

cautious approach when it comes to homeopathy for animals. They say

these treatments should be considered as complementary rather

than an alternative to conventional treatments but stop short of

supporting a ban on homeopathy for animals saying they recognise there

is a demand and there is no reason to fear that the treatments cause

harm to animals. We will bring you up to date with the latest from

Dallas. First, let's catch up with the weather.

A drab start to Friday. But skies are now brightening and we will see

sunny spells in most places for today. Already some here in East

Lothian. Most places will brighten up and see blue sky through today.

It will feel warm, as well. Temperatures could get up to 24.

Still some damp weather to get rid of across parts of East Anglia

heading to the North Sea and parts of southern England will take a

while before we brighten up. It's not completely dry across Scotland

and northern England. Most places will avoid the showers and feel warm

as the winds ease down and temperatures maybe 24. The weekend

is rather complicated. More details on that online.

That's all for now. Hello it's Friday, it's 10 o'clock,

I'm Joanna Gosling - welcome to the programme if you've

just joined us. Five police officers

are killed when snipers open fire at a protest in Dallas

against the shooting Several more police

are critically wounded. I was walking and the sniper

just started shooting. Like all of the cops

were getting shot man. There had to have been like five

or six cops they was In the deadliest day for law

enforcement officers since 9/11. You can see one of the gunmen here -

he later shot a policeman, but those images are

too graphic to show. Three suspects are now in custody,

while a fourth has shot himself. The police chief has paid tribute

to his officers. Seeing the courage, the

professionalism and just the grit to stay on scene in an area, looking

for suspects, knowing that we are vulnerable. We will speak to one of

the eyewitnesses shortly who saw the policeman being shot. These two

women, one of them will be our next Prime Minister. We will speak to

some of the Conservative Party members who will choose whether it

is Theresa May or Andrea Leadsom who gets to No 10.

We can bring you up to date with all of the latest developments in

Dallas, where five police officers have died after snipers opened fire

at a protest about the fatal shootings of two black men by police

this week. Terror on the streets of Dallas.

Hundreds of people flee for cover after hearing gunshots. They don't

know where the danger is, so they hide where they can. The police move

into what sounds like a war zone. They think there are at least two

and mental with high-calibre rifles. Witnesses say the police themselves

were the targets. I just saw cops bending over, man. It looks like

five or six cops, shot down. This person was filmed by a bystander. He

appears focused as he fires back towards police. It is not clear who

he is or what happened to him next. Two suspects were quickly arrested

after a police chase on this overpass. One of them was seen

throwing a bag back into the car before speeding off. But it was not

over. The shooting continued, as police tried to keep people back.

For several hours there was a stand-off at this car park, where

one of the gunman was keeping police at bay. The city was shaken by the

attacks. The suspect told our negotiators that the end is coming,

and he's going to hurt and kill more of us, meaning law-enforcement, and

that there are bombs all over the place in this garage and downtown.

That suspect was later reported to have been killed. At least one

suspicious package was found, but no bombs appear to have gone off. It

has been a terrible night of carnage for the Dallas police. I ask

everybody to focus on one thing right now - and that is the Dallas

police officers, their families, those that are deceased, those that

are in the hospital fighting for their lives. Let's all come together

and support our police officers. Five officers killed, another six

injured. Once again, America is left asking whether this problem of gun

violence will ever be solved. We can now speak to Brendan has to, a

21-year-old photographer. He witnessed a policeman being shot and

he joins us live from Dallas. Thank you very much for joining us. Tell

us what you saw. On, basically, I heard a man. And after that I looked

to my left and I saw the police officer go down. I was pretty much

just shocked, and then I just ran. And this reporter guy he grabbed me

and we went underneath the parking garage. We were kind of on the side

of it. That side of the garage, we were not entirely underneath the

parking garage. All the police cars started showing up, and all you hear

is a bunch of shots ringing from right above me. The police just tell

us to get down and stay close to the wall, get down. The shots just

started ringing right above my head and everything. The cop just... He

came over and told all of us to get behind. And when we did... He told

us to just go, hurry up and run. And we ran. And after that, a bunch more

gunshots rang off. We were there for at least two or three minutes before

we could even run. During those two or three minutes, you heard people,

you heard the officer screaming, that's number two! Like, officer

number two is down! You could literally hear him screaming.

Brendan, it must have been petrifying. You were there when all

of this started to unfold. You say that you couldn't even run for two

or three minutes - what was going through your mind? I really couldn't

believe it at the time. I come to downtown Dallas every

other day. I take pictures in downtown Dallas almost every other

day. I have been in a few protests down here. Nothing like this has

ever happened. Yet it would even be imaginable. Was it clear to you from

early on that it was the police officers who were being picked out

by snipers? ? No. Just heard gunshots. There was a lot of people

out there. You couldn't tell, like, it was... You couldn't tell who was

getting shot. How did people protect themselves? Was it clear where the

shots were even coming from? That's the thing. If you were on that side,

you kind of like saw where the shots were coming from. If you didn't, you

didn't really know. With everything going around, everybody running

every which way, a lot of people couldn't tell. A lot of people were

just running every which way, getting down, in fear for their

lives, basically. Everyone just ducking, and the police just telling

everybody, just, like, basically taking charge and telling everybody,

yet to the other side of the building. It happened right on the

street, that's where the biggest police station in Dallas is. You

described how you heard the police around you, the officers counting,

effectively, as they went down. How close were you to the officers who

were actually shot? Did you actually see that happening? I saw one. The

second one I just heard, but I was pretty close. I was dug down. So I

really could not see at that point. I just saw officers dug down. I just

heard a lot of shots full stop a whole lot of shots. Like right above

me. When he said, officer number two is down, I'm sorry, I am kind of...

But after he said that, that's when the officer told us to get behind

him. And that's when he told us to just run. It is completely

understandable obviously that you are in quite a state of trauma right

now, because you have experienced these events happening right before

your eyes. How did you manage to get away in the end, what happened?

Basically, when it kind of just settled down. I guessed whatever, or

whoever was in that parking garage, kind of, stopped firing for a while.

I do not know for sure. But they just told us to move out. At one

point they told us to move like further down, but then it was

reported that... As soon as everyone started walking, it was reported

that shots were coming from there as well. So everybody just had to stay

in the middle between there and the parking garage. So I just kind of

weighted a couple of hours. And I just walked all the way out of the

city, literally, all the way around the city. Just to walk back into

downtown on the other side to get my car. And obviously, with any

situation as it is happening, nobody knows where it is going to go, how

many people were involved in it. There was also a threat that there

were bombs around the city. Did you feel safe anywhere at that stage? I

mean, the fact that I was so close to it in the first place, and the

fact that I got that close to it, like, not really. Because we had to

kind of stay in between. Everybody watching the news, just saying, the

gunman is still at large. Nobody could really feel safe. It was

just... I really didn't, even when I was walking away, like a couple of

hours later. All the way around the city to my car. At that point, you

just don't know what could happen. This all happened as people were out

protesting about the shooting dead of a black man by police officers -

had you gone along to join that protest? What was your perspective

on all of those events? No, actually, to be honest, I was out

there, we were already working on a short film. And it was related to

the shootings. And we just wanted to catch... We weren't actually going

to protest. We were in the protest to kind of get video footage, as

will support. But we were not just going to protest the entire time. We

just wanted to document it, basically. And we went out there to

do that. So from your perspective, as a documentary maker, on events,

as they happen, and on race relations more broadly, what is your

take on everything, on the mood in the United States right now? After

tonight, it's scary. Because it's just like briefed people got killed

by cops. You've got a lot of these people saying, because of the people

that dies by the hands of a cop, you've got these people saying, they

don't care about the cops they lost tonight. You got people saying they

deserve it and stuff like that. So, honestly, it's scary just to be

around all that. You heard people saying that to you, people saying

they don't care about the cops, they deserve it? Yes. People saying they

don't give, that about the police. Saying, that does not have anything

to do with me, we can go home. Just a lot of people think... That's not

good, that's scary. What are your feelings about where

this goes? Are you worried? I suppose. I'm only 21. Just kidding

along for a minute, but this could go on for a while -- kicking. You

can see that innocent people are getting her already. -- hurt. This

happens when people get fed up and start doing what they want. Like

tonight, resulting in more shootings. It is scary. I'm worried.

We are expecting to hear from President Obama very shortly with

his first reaction to the shootings. What would you like to hear from

him? What can people say to try and reduce the tensions? He could...

At this point, I don't know. I'm sorry. I really don't know what to

say at this point. I mean, everyone would like to hear that the

shootings would stop. It has happened before. It has happened in

numerous amount of times, these are not the first times. It has got to

stop. If it keeps happening, tensions are obviously going to keep

rising, stuff like this is going to happen over and over again. Nothing

is really safe any more. Brendan, thanks for joining us. I know it has

not been easy, you have witnessed horrific events in Dallas overnight.

We appreciate you talking to us. We are expecting to hear from President

Obama. He is in Warsaw at a Nato conference and we are expecting him

to talk to the media with his first comments on the shootings. He was

speaking prior to those events, talking about the killings of two

black men by police officers which were the events which triggered the

protest in Dallas and elsewhere in the United States. It was at one of

those protests against those shootings that these sniper attacks

happened. We will bring you that as soon as he speaks.

As we know 11 officers have been shot - 5 have been killed.

One of the police officers killed has been identified as 43-year-old

Brent Thompson. He joined the Dallas Area Rapid

Transit force in 2009. His department has issued

a statement, it reads, "As you can "This is something that touches

every part of our organization. "We have received countless

expressions of support and sympathy "from around the world

through the evening. "We are grateful for every message.

Thank you." And now we can hear from the

American president. With your understanding I want to begin with a

few words about the situation back in the United States. Specifically

the situation in Dallas, Texas. My team has been keeping me updated

through the morning. Regarding the evening in Dallas. I spoke with

Mayor Rawlings of Dallas to convey the deepest condolences of the

American people. I told him that the federal government will provide

whatever assistance Dallas might need as it deals with this

tremendous tragedy. We still don't know the facts. What we do know,

there has been a vicious, calculated and despicable attack on

law-enforcement. Police in Dallas were on duty, doing their jobs,

keeping people safe during peaceful protests. These law-enforcement

officers were targeted. Nearly a dozen officers were shot. Five were

killed. Other officers and at least one civilian were wounded. Some are

in serious condition and we are praying for their recovery. As I

told Mayor Rawlings, I believe I speak for every single American when

I say we are horrified over these events and that we stand united with

the people and the police department in Dallas. According to police there

are multiple suspects and we will learn more undoubtably about their

twisted motivations, but let's be clear, there is no possible

justification for these kind of attacks. Or any kind of violence

against law enforcement. The FBI is in touch with the Dallas police, and

anyone involved in these senseless murders will be held fully

accountable, justice will be done. I will have more to say about this as

the facts become clear. For now, let me just say, even as yesterday, I

spoke about our need to be concerned as all Americans about racial

disparity in our criminal justice system, but I also said yesterday

that our police have an extraordinarily difficult job and

the vast majority of them do their job in outstanding fashion. I also

indicated the degree to which we need to be supportive of those

officers who do their job each and every day. Protecting us and our

communities. Today is a wrenching reminder of the sacrifices that they

make for us. We also know that when people are armed with powerful

weapons, unfortunately it makes attacks like these more deadly and

more tragic. And in the days ahead we will have to consider those

realities, as well. In the meantime, today, our focus is on the victims

and their families. They are heartbroken. The entire city of

Dallas is grieving. Police across America, which is a tight-knit

family, feels this loss to their core. We are grieving with them. I

ask all Americans to say a prayer for these officers and their

families, to keep them in their thoughts. As a nation, we must

remember to express our profound gratitude to our men and women in

blue, not just today, but every day. With that, I want to thank Donald

Tusk engine claw junker for the work here in Warsaw, I've worked with

Donald in his previous capacity here in Poland -- Donald Tusk and

Jean-Claude Juncker. STUDIO: We will leave the American president. That

was his first reaction to the shootings in Dallas which have seen

five police officers killed on the streets of Dallas while they were

out policing a protest which was in response to the killings of two

black men are by police officers. The police were covering that

protest when snipers opened fire on them. Five police officers killed

and another six injured. These pictures showing one of the gunmen.

President Obama talking about senseless murders, he said "We are

horrified and we stand united over this". He said he would have more to

say when the facts become clear, but his message was one of unity and he

said the police have an extraordinarily difficult job and

the vast majority do their job in an outstanding fashion, he said. He

said today is a wrenching reminder the sacrifices police make for us.

Our correspondent joins us live from Los Angeles. Peter, the president

talking about his horror at what has happened. He said he would have more

to say when the facts become clear. Yes, it is clear from what the

police have been saying in Dallas, it could be some time before all of

those facts are clear. It has been a very confusing situation as we have

been watching this terrible tragedy unfold over the last few hours. The

words of the president will resonate with so many Americans, talking

about this as a tremendous tragedy, vicious, captivated and despicable

attack on law-enforcement. Referring to the twisted motivation of those

people involved. Being here you get a sense of people's frustrations at

this time, with what has happened in other cities, the shooting of black

men by the police and then this protest in Dallas and other cities

around America. People exercising their right to express their

feelings and protest about whatever it is, frustration or anger at the

current situation in America. There are more protests planned in the

coming days and clearly in the light of what has happened in Dallas,

police forces will be looking very carefully at security matters across

the country as people inevitably take to the streets again. The

president also spoke about the fact that when the weapons that we use...

-- that were used in this attack, he said we will have to consider the

realities of that, as well. Every time there's a mass shooting the

president is clear on where he stands regarding gun control in the

United States but nothing has changed his presidency. That is

correct. He has been clear where he stands and his sense of frustration

that nothing seems to change. There might be small changes in the law

but nothing substantial seems to change in terms of legislation with

politicians in Washington at loggerheads as to what the future

course of action should be in terms of gun control in America. He has

made it very clear that he finds that situation frustrating and he

has said a number of times that he considers it to be one of his

failings, that he hasn't managed to achieve more during his terms in

office. That clearly is a debate which will continue. We are in the

middle of a very acrimonious presidential candidate debate with

Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump addressing these issues. No doubt we

will hear more as they debate over the coming months. It is a debate

which won't go away. The question is, will anything substantially

change? What is the latest on the ground in Dallas, is everything

over? We don't know categorically that everything is over, but we

understand from the media reports that the final person, the person

that was holed up in a stand-off in a Garrard building with the police,

that person has killed himself -- in a garage building. That has been

reported in local media, and if that is the case it would seem to bring

the situation to a close. The police said this was still a crime scene

and they weren't absolutely certain that there aren't other suspects to

be caught in the Dallas area, and the police have not elaborated on

that. Until the police say they are certain that everyone involved in

this is either dead or in custody, the situation can't be considered to

be over. People that work in Dallas and the downtown area, they have

been told to stay away for the coming hours and not to turn up for

work in the morning. It will be some time before there is any semblance

of normality in downtown Dallas. Thank you, Peter. Many reports of

the incidents on social media. Sydney says, guns, racism and

ignorance, he said this was likely to happen after the police had

essentially been filmed executing people on the streets. Another

person says the police need training reform. Katz says, when will

Americans learn, because situation was written when they were still

fighting the Indians across the prairies. And that the open sales of

guns lead to unnecessary deaths and that slavery no longer exists,

contrary to the beliefs of many Americans in southern states.

Destiny has tweeted, my heart goes out to those in Dallas and affected

by the awful shooting, e-mail from day, any police force must be

accountable for any killing of people and they can't get away with

murder. Textron Peter, it is time the US and people owning guns

stashed text from. Tweet from Derek, the American police are like the

South African police back in the days of the apartheid system. And

one final message, citing the ridiculous gun laws.

We can now speak to Sima Yasmin. I'm not sure if we still have Sima

Yasmin on the line. It seems that unfortunately we cannot speak to

Sima Yasmin right now. We will go back to her if we can re-establish

communication. She is outside one of the hospitals where the injured

police officers are being treated. You may have seen a picture from

earlier, on social media, from outside the hospital, with police

officers are saluting their fallen fellow officers. The latest reports

are that the situation is under control, with reports that the

fourth gunman, who was holding out against police, shot himself dead.

We have not yet had official confirmation that that is in fact

the case, but it has been widely reported. Three suspects in custody

and five police officers killed and six injured. We heard from President

Obama, getting his reaction to what has unfolded. He said, these are

senseless murders, we stand united against them. He said, today is a

wrenching reminder of the sacrifices the police make for us.

A vicious, cultivated and despicable attack on law enforcement. Those

were the words of President Obama. Somebody is really aren't to the

teeth. This is not one person. The snipers fired on the police

officers, causing panic and confusion. In these images, you can

see one of the snipers firing shots, and the sound of police sirens

wailing in the distance. Later on in this video,

you see the sniper shoot someone who appears to be a police officer

at point blank range - we aren't showing you those images

because they are so graphic. It happened at a Black Lives Matter

protest following the fatal shooting of two black men by white police

officers in Louisiana and Minnesota. Before the shots rang out,

the protests were peaceful. I was walking, and the sniper

just started shooting, and all of the cops

are getting shot. I just saw the cops bending over,

there were five or six cops, It was right after the rally,

we were just walking to the car. All the cops...

How many? We were running, they just kept

shooting, we don't know But I didn't see anybody else get

shot, it was just the cops. I didn't see nobody else

get shot but the cops. In the past few moments, President

Obama has given his reaction. He said - I speak for every single

American when I say we are horrified Beard these events. We still do not

know all the facts. What we do know is that there has been a vicious,

calculated and despicable attack on law enforcement.

Police in Dallas were on duty, doing their jobs,

keeping people safe during peaceful protests.

These law-enforcement officers were targeted.

The mayor of Dallas urged the city to come together. I asked everybody

to focus on one thing right now - the families, those that are

deceased, those that are in hospital fighting for their lives. Let's all

come together and support our police officers. I've never been as proud,

and I believe we've got one of the best forces in the nation. And we've

done things with civil rights in the right way, and we've done it for the

safety of our citizens. So please, let's come together right now as a

city. A short time ago, Brendan Hester told me how he witnessed a

policeman being shot. The shots were just winning right above my head and

everything. He came over and told

all of us to get behind. He told us to just go,

hurry up and run. And after that, a bunch

more gunshots rang off. We were there for at least two

or three minutes before During those two or three

minutes, you heard people, you heard the officer screaming,

that's number two! You could literally

hear him screaming. Let take a look at some of the

reaction on social media. This particularly striking image - police

standing in a line outside the hospital, saluting their fellow

officers who died. Just one of many dramatic images of the night.

Elsewhere, Dallas police have simply tweeted - it has been a devastating

nice. Prominent figures in Dallas have expressed solidarity with

police and fellow citizens. A black US ComRes woman said, so much

tragedy and pain throughout the country. We must remember, violence

is not the answer. We must have peace and end gun violence. Texas

Governor Greg Abbott has released a statement, saying - in times like

this, we must remember the importance of uniting as Americans.

Texas Senator Ted Cruz has said - may God protect our fallen heroes

and bring peace upon the city of Dallas. The Dallas arts district has

tweeted - darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only like can do that.

Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that. Mark has said -

Dallas, we mourn those who lost their lives protect stand together

united to cherish those we live and work next. Earlier I spoke to John

Matthews, a former Dallas police John Matthews is a for

offered the mer Dallas director of an the organisation

Community Safety Institute, He's been giving me his

reaction to the shootings. Well, it's absolutely horrifying

what's been unfolding. shooting ambush-style attack

like this, it is absolutely unprecedented, and it's a horrific

day for law enforcement I know that you have spoken

to police officers in Dallas. There was chaos when the shooting

was going on, there was panic, there was concern for their fellow

officers, and above all, concern for the safety

of the citizens, and our hearts go out to the family members of those

officers that have lost their lives, and of the officers that were

injured in the line of duty tonight. As you say, obviously police

here are dealing with an incident in which they were targeted,

officers were killed. As a former officer, how difficult

would a situation like that be? It is extremely difficult,

because you are out there trying to do your job,

protecting the public. They were out there guarding

and protecting the demonstrators so that they could have a peaceful

demonstration, and now the protectors of society

have the targets on their back. They are the ones that

are being victimised. These snipers intentionally fired

upon the police, and wanted officers and victims,

and as a mass shooting expert, I can tell you, this is the first

time in the US in the mass shootings that we've had that we have had law

enforcement officers actually targeted in one

of these mass shootings. How concerned are you about

what this says about the faith that some have in the police

in the United States right now? Well, I think we've been working

on police and community relations been very proactive in reaching out

to the faith-based community and the very diverse communities

that we have in our cities. I think there is a tremendous amount

of anxiety out there right now, and I think it's being manifested

in ways beyond public discourse, and manifested in ways

like we see tonight, where officers, the protectors

of society, are now becoming targets Officers all across this nation,

not just in Dallas, but everywhere, have got to be on high alert now

at all times in all situations. These protests have come,

not just the protest there, there have been many protests

in the United States, after two fatal shootings

of black men in one week. If you look at the statistics,

they show that if you are black, you are more likely to be

shot dead by the police. Do some police have an issue

with black people? I think the media doesn't report

the entire situation, but we have over 57,000 assaults

on law enforcement officers We average 144 law enforcement

officers killed in the line of duty every single year for the past ten

years, and so I think you need to look at the totality

of the circumstances out there, and in law enforcement,

it is a very, very dangerous profession, and we have officers

that are assaulted and killed almost each and every day,

and yet it doesn't make the national In the specific cases, though,

that are highlighted, and obviously the one particularly

in the spotlight right now is Philando Castile,

because he was shot dead in Minnesota, and his girlfriend

live-streamed the aftermath with a police officer holding a gun

through the window of the car as she is saying to the officer,

"He was just telling you he was going to produce his ID,

and he did inform you he had a gun Let me tell you - law enforcement

is a very, very stressful job. You are out there trying

to protect the citizens, yet you are trying to make sure that

at the end of every day, you get to go home each night,

and in the cases that we have seen recently, officers fighting suspects

with guns or individuals that might have guns,

yes, with the 900,000 officers we have out there on the street,

there might be some missteps, we have out there on the street,

there might be some missteps. But overall, the vast

majority of law enforcement, they are out there protecting

society, and making sure before we leave this, a final

reminder of what we know. Snipers have shot dead five police officers

in Dallas during a rally against the shootings of two black men in the

country by police this week. Six others are in hospital, some of them

in a critical condition. A woman was also wounded. Unconfirmed media

reports say a suspect who had been firing at officers from a car park

has killed himself. We will have lots more reaction to that from 11

o'clock. You can also follow events online. If anything happens, we will

update you. One of these women is about to

become our next Prime Minister - we'll ask some of the Conservative

party members who get to vote whether they're swinging

towards Theresa May or Andrea Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom

will battle it out to become the Prime Minister

after Michael Gove was Theresa May has been one

of the longest-serving Home Secretaries in modern history,

a job that is notoriously difficult. She was for Remain in

the referendum, but was decidedly quiet about it and as such is being

pitched as the unity candidate. Before politics she was

a financial consultant. She wants to be judged

according to her considerable Andrea Leadsom by contrast

holds the more junior She was a vocal campaigner

for the winning side Before joining parliament in 2010

she worked as a City fund manager. In her campaign speech she talks

of a desire to create We now talk to Conservative members

who will be allowed to vote for their next party leader and this

country's prime minister. If you can just introduce sure

cells. -- introduce yourselves. My name is Matt and I my decided about

who I will support. Have you been before? No, I haven't, things have

moved on quite quickly, now we have a couple of candidates to choose

from, I will withhold judgment until I have done more research. My name

is Adam and I'm also on but I would say that if I were to choose I would

possibly be more towards Theresa May, but I see the positives of both

candidates. We have a lot to discuss. My name is Jack and my

sense is that sector in macro is by a country mile the strongest

candidate -- my sense is that Theresa May. But it is slightly

disturbing, that this candidate, either candidate, will have a

mandate to run the country for four years. I think Theresa May will

unify the country, even though I voted Leave. I'm backing Theresa

May, I think in a turbulent time we need an experienced pair of

Handscomb song on who can negotiate a Brexit and someone who has a

proven track record in national security -- experienced pair of

hands who can. I will probably vote for Andrea Leadsom, she has good

personal qualities, and during the debates, in Brexit, she looked like

a leader. It is notable that the majority of you have said Theresa

May, even though a few are undecided and one of you said Andrea Leadsom.

You represent the votes the MPs have made on this, but it is yet to be

seen what the wider constituency will feel. Simon, you are the early

one supporting Andrea Leadsom here, wider you think she is better than

Theresa May? -- why do you think. You need to be able to reach out to

people and foreshore personality in the media, and I think there was a

warmth and earthiness and world experience about her, she has spent

over 20 years outside politics, and at Simon people are worried about

the Westminster bubble and politicians who do not get the

outside world, I think she is probably the answer -- at a time

when people are worried. You are not talking policy, but your sense of

her. Is that what it comes down to? I think so. It has been a very

turbulent time, many people have been working 24-7 and there has not

always been the opportunity to lay out your policies in detail and what

you will do. That sounds as if you have no agenda, but I think the

agenda will build and policies will become clear. I'm looking at the

personality and the basic tools and values. Pile in everyone, what is

the factor for you? We need someone with experience, we are about to go

in to post Brexit negotiations with very tough leaders in Europe and we

need someone who has dealt with leaders in Europe, who has

experience and a track record. Who will fight for the United Kingdom. I

think Theresa May is best placed to do that. As someone who voted

Remain, I have got sympathy for the idea that it should be a Brexiteer

who takes us forward, and even though I voted Remain in the

referendum, I have sympathy for those who say, if someone is going

to argue for Brexit and represent us, it should be someone who led

that campaign. That would be Andrea Leadsom. But you are undecided? Yes,

I am. Why are you not swinging behind her question mark I'm yet to

understand if she has de experience to fulfil such a role. And if she

hasn't, is that what it boils down to? She doesn't have the political

experience as Theresa May. It will be interesting how she performs in

front of the media, how some of her policies play out and some of the

things... Some of the things she is passionate about. She's the unknown

quantity, people are more aware of Theresa May, she has been more

around and has a higher public profile. Andrea Leadsom does not

have that, but you have got to give her the chance to say what she is

about. Jack, you said Theresa May by a country mile. You look at the

experience and her insight and her dealings at a national level, she is

a much better candidate, but it is interesting, both of these

candidates have six weeks to convince half the Conservative Party

members that they are the right person, not just to lead the party,

but to set the agenda and new fiscal policy and new immigration policy

and take being -- the entire country forward. One of them will have to

realise that all they have to do is get 75,001 party members to endorse

their campaign. It is extraordinary risky situation for the country,

whichever candidate prevails, they have got to go back to the country

within a year after becoming Prime Minister. Theresa May has said there

should not be an election. No, both of them have said that. What you

think about a general election? I don't invest should be at the

moment, but we need to focus on the agenda post Brexit -- I don't think

they should be at the moment. We need to focus on making Britain have

the best deal they can outside of Europe and going on from there. That

is extremely important, when it comes to having a general election,

we first focus on what is best for the people, the people voted to

leave the European Union. We should focus on that, and then have a

general election after that. There will have to be an election if

Andrea Leadsom is elected Prime Minister, she was a junior minister,

someone who is not in the Cabinet. Her views are not known. You have

got to have an election. But not if Theresa May wins? That she has been

at the top of the tree and in the Cabinet. Both of them have got to

sketch out their policies, and maybe people will see Andrea Leadsom has

sufficient policies, and they don't need to go to an election, but we

have not seen them so far. We have a big negotiation coming up, there's

no on-the-job training, you are thrown in and you have got to know

what you are doing, and it will be very difficult for people looking at

that choice to choose anyone but Theresa May. Theresa May was word --

Remain, even though she was not very prominent, how would you like to see

her handle that? The decision has been made and the people that were

loyal to the government, my perception is that she's a

trustworthy person and she will take the mandate and take it forward, and

I've no doubt that she would an excellent job in taking the Brexit

mandate forward. Is that fair to say for all of you? You said that you

were Remain, but you accept the Brexit way forward. I was very

staunchly Remain. What I accept, the country has said we are leaving the

EU, but what I also is a huge spectrum as to what that could mean.

-- what I also acknowledge is that is a huge victim.

Both candidates have got to express what that means to them and the

country has got to have a say on the negotiations. Simon, the Tory party

has been through a period of very public division. What do you think

about the prospects going forward? On a note of optimism, both

candidates could and would unite the party, the word unity has got to be

salient in this campaign. There are many people who want to have a

second referendum or want to get out of the decision the majority of the

British people have make-up but I don't think that is healthy. General

elections are often won by a small margin, that is democracy and that

is the best we have got. We need a Prime Minister to go through with

the mandate of Brexit, but also try to bring as many people along with

them as we can. Was it the right thing for David Cameron to call this

referendum? It was all is going to be a lose situation, if we had won,

they would be division in the party, but with the result that has

happened, it would also cause this, everything has gone completely

messy, we don't know who will be the next leader. We are stuck in a

leadership debate, David Cameron has resigned. It has caused a massive

controversial issue. I feel it was going to be a lose lose situation,

whether that was a division or coming up for a Tory leadership

campaign. We are not with the EU in the situation we are in when we last

had a referendum, so the ever closer union is not what we voted on last

time, so I think was right to go to the country. The referendum was in

the manifesto on which we were elected at the last general

election, but it is also worth noting, whoever wins the leadership

race will be presiding over a wafer thin majority and a party where

discipline, loyalty, the tight ship David Cameron ran, that has gone out

the window. We need a buckle ourselves into but we are heading to

fairly choppy waters. It was not wrong to hold the referendum, but I

regret entirely how both sides conducted the referendum campaign. I

do think we had a proper debate on the issue, we had scare stories on