Browse content similar to 13/12/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme. | :00:00. | :00:10. | |
There are no trains on any route in Southern's | :00:11. | :00:18. | |
Rail drivers are on strike in a row over who pushes the button. | :00:19. | :00:31. | |
The buttons on the doors, who should operate them? These drivers say it | :00:32. | :00:38. | |
should not be them, but it has caused chaos for commuters across | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
southern Britain today. We will have all the details in a moment. | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
That us go about your own experiences. | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
After four years of bitter fighting, Syrian government forces | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
are on the brink of retaking Aleppo, the country's largest city. | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
Some residents are warning of atrocities in the city. | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
I don't believe any more in the United Nations, in the international | :01:02. | :01:12. | |
community. Not satisfied with what is going on. | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
We'll talk to people on the ground throughout | :01:16. | :01:16. | |
The winner of the album of the year goes to... The God test that is | :01:17. | :01:25. | |
Adele! Plus, Adele was the big | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
winner at the BBC's She could not turn up to receive | :01:30. | :01:31. | |
those are walled in person. Hello, welcome to the programme, | :01:32. | :01:46. | |
we're live until 11am. Throughout the morning we'll bring | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
you the latest breaking news and developing stories and, | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
as always, really keen to hear Tell us your experience | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
of commuting on Southern Rail. If you text, you will be charged | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
at the standard network rate. The Government says it's prepared | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
to consider banning strikes on the railways as thousands | :02:08. | :02:18. | |
of passengers in the south-east of England find themselves | :02:19. | :02:20. | |
unable to get to work. Train drivers on Southern Rail began | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
a 48-hour strike at midnight, the latest action in | :02:24. | :02:25. | |
the long-running dispute The Transport Secretary Chris | :02:26. | :02:27. | |
Grayling says he will look at changing the law over strike | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
action on the railways It is a long-running dispute that | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
has forced people to change jobs and move houses because they cannot | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
rely on the trains. Now the drivers are joining in, | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
it is about to get much worse. There is nothing at all | :02:40. | :02:46. | |
going from stations I am I pay ?230 a month, I have been late | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
to work or home from work A lot of people are paying | :02:50. | :03:00. | |
for a season ticket, It will wipe out more than 2,000 | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
daily services on some The unions keep saying no, they | :03:05. | :03:25. | |
could solve this morning if they sit down, sort out a deal and call of | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
the strikes. It is not fair on the passengers that they pursue this | :03:31. | :03:31. | |
political agenda. Southern wants its drivers to take | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
over the job of closing the doors. Currently, the on-board | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
guard does it. The company says a third | :03:39. | :03:39. | |
of Britain's services The unions disagree, | :03:40. | :03:41. | |
saying that the guard has a much-better view of the doors | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
than the driver and can see The Government says | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
automated trains are vital The unions fear it is going to lead | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
to getting rid of a second Whatever happens here | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
could be repeated on other Duncan Kennedy is at Horsham | :04:00. | :04:06. | |
station in West Sussex. It looks spectacularly un-busy | :04:07. | :04:24. | |
there. A very deserted train station. We normally get 30,000 | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
people coming through here over the course of a day, 10,000 during | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
rush-hour. Look at the concourse, it is deserted. It has been like that | :04:36. | :04:43. | |
ever since we arrived at 5am. Something like 300,000 journeys are | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
made on Southern Rail during the day, none of those are operating | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
today. We spoke to the station manager at a few moments ago, he | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
looks after 27 other stations, he said the rock solid strike means no | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
trains are moving on Southern Rail white --. The train drivers say they | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
should not open the doors because it is not safe. The idea was brought in | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
in the 1980s when trains were much shorter, four carriages, a couple of | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
hundred people. Now trains have ten carriages, a thousand people, and | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
they should have somebody else on board to open the doors and they say | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
it is not safe to continue driving the trains with that system in | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
place. We have a commuter here, you are one of the thousands who cannot | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
get to work, school, college. What do you make of that? It is | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
ridiculous and annoying, I can't get where I need to go, I missed three | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
weeks of class. Sometimes I buy a ticket and I get halfway and then | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
have to go back to London Victoria to get home. Do your college note | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
you are not turning up? I managed to get a lift in today, so I am waiting | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
for that. It is the same tomorrow, hopefully I can get a lift. Other | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
than that, it is difficult to get in. We have some of the drivers | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
behind you, they say they are doing it for safety purposes. Who do you | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
blame for the problems? I don't know about safety. We don't know. We are | :06:20. | :06:26. | |
standing on the platform a lot of the time, they talk about driver | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
surfaces -- shortages, signal issues. It is a bigger problem than | :06:33. | :06:43. | |
just drivers. It is an entire mess, I don't know what the issue is. Two | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
more strikes, tomorrow and Friday. There are some services running on | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
Thames Link and the Gatwick Express, but they are subject to delays, | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
because there might be an issue about people crossing picket lines | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
at. But as far as Southern Rail are concerned, no trains, same again | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
tomorrow and on Friday. Unless there is a breakthrough. These are some of | :07:07. | :07:13. | |
your messages. Cassius says, it is not about buttons, it is about the | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
Government trying to crush unions. Terry says, safety and care for | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
passengers are paramount, Southern Rail and the Government want to shed | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
jobs. Elizabeth says, what is more inconvenient, a day of disruption or | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
long term compromised safety of workers and passengers? If you are a | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
commuter, let me know your own views. | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
Annita is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary | :07:46. | :07:47. | |
Syrian government forces say they are close to taking full | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
control of Aleppo after a four-year battle for the city. | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
Rebel fighters are now trapped in a small pocket of their former | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
stronghold in the east, along with thousands of civilians, | :07:58. | :07:59. | |
and have come under intense bombardment. | :08:00. | :08:00. | |
The UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has expressed alarm at reports | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
of atrocities against large numbers of civilians. | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
The sound of gunfire, this time in celebration, | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
on the streets of Aleppo, as the news breaks that the Syrian | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
We are all happy at this liberation, and we have finally seen | :08:18. | :08:29. | |
For much of the past four years, this city has been divided. | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
The rebels in control of the east, the government the west. | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
Since September, the Syrian army, supported by its Russian | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
and the Iranian allies, has battled intensely to take | :08:45. | :08:46. | |
Lives have been lost, the city destroyed, people displaced. | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
Now, where the fighting is over, determined to go home, some return, | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
carrying the few belongings they've managed to salvage. | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
But in the last rebel-held areas, many civilians are still | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
As the army closed in further, it's claimed the bombardment | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
The United Nations has expressed its alarm over reports | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
of atrocities against a large number of civilians, including | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
Victory for the regime over the rebels in Aleppo would mark | :09:23. | :09:30. | |
a turning point in the war in Syria, but at what cost? | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
A damning review by the Care Quality Commission has found that the NHS | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
is putting lives at risk by failing to learn from the | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
The regulator concluded there isn't a single trust in England | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
investigating deaths properly, that the health service is often | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
defensive about errors, and families are regularly | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
The NHS has said the "whole system must do better". | :09:54. | :10:01. | |
Her lust for life is helping Rhiannon and Richard | :10:02. | :10:09. | |
Their first child, Kate, died in 2009, just six hours old. | :10:10. | :10:19. | |
Her death was avoidable but repeated failures by the NHS to properly | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
investigate what happened meant it took the family seven years | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
We'll never give up on Kate, we'll never give up on her, | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
and we'll never give up on trying to ensure that no other family goes | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
through what we went through, no other baby suffers like Kate did | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
She should be here, she should have decorated that tree with us. | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
Today's report says the family's experience is far too common. | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
No health trust in England is properly investigating deaths, | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
according to the Care Quality Commission. | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
That means lessons aren't being learned, so other people | :10:54. | :10:55. | |
are dying unnecessarily, and the families of the dead | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
are often ignored or dismissed by the NHS. | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
I was shocked by the extent of the problem across the country. | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
The consequences are first of all that we may miss | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
opportunities to prevent deaths in the future or certainly | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
improve care in the future, and of course at the same time | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
we miss the opportunity to be open with families and carers. | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
The Health Secretary is likely to force the NHS to regularly | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
publish figures from numbers of preventable deaths | :11:27. | :11:28. | |
when he responds to the damning report later. | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
Around 3,500 Post Office workers are to go on strike for five days | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
next week in a dispute over jobs, pensions and branch closures. | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
The Communication Workers Union says the walkout will start next Monday | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
The Post Office says it will be "business as usual" in the vast | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
majority of its branches, despite the industrial action. | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
An extremely rare book handwritten and illustrated by the Harry Potter | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
author JK Rowling goes on sale today. | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
The copy of The Tales Of Beedle The Bard is one of only seven | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
produced by the writer, and is estimated to reach over | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
It contains a personal inscription to her editor, Barry Cunningham, | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
who famously accepted the first Harry Potter book for publication. | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
What's very special about this is it was originally intended | :12:21. | :12:22. | |
as a very personal and perhaps private gift to six people | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
who were instrumental or important in the history of the publication | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
It certainly isn't common to get a manuscript of this length, | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
over 6,000 words, and it's a very special and unique item. | :12:36. | :12:50. | |
Adele has dominated the BBC Music Awards for the second year in a row. | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
She picked up song and album of the year, but was not there in person to | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
pick up the boards. Robbie Williams did the honours. Coldplay accepted | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
their prize for best British artist as they walked on stage in | :13:07. | :13:07. | |
Australia. That's a summary of the latest BBC | :13:08. | :13:09. | |
News, more at 9:30am. We will talk to four or five would | :13:10. | :13:17. | |
be commuters, people who normally catch a train on the Southern Rail | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
network and who have not been able to today because of the strike. If | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
you normally use the network, let us know your views. The strike action | :13:28. | :13:34. | |
today, tomorrow and Friday. After 10am will bring together for people | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
whose livelihoods are being badly affected by the strike and the boss | :13:38. | :13:46. | |
of the union Aslef. If you have personal experiences, do let me know | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
and I can feed them into the conversation. | :13:50. | :13:50. | |
If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
Let's get some sport now and join Olly Foster at the BBC Sport Centre. | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
We're going to focus on football, because it's been award season, | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
with a couple of prestigious honours handed out? | :14:01. | :14:09. | |
You talk about who the best player in the world is, they will talk | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
about Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo. | :14:16. | :14:17. | |
For the last nine years either Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
Ronaldo's turn this year, the fourth time he's won it. | :14:21. | :14:23. | |
Ronaldo helped Real Madrid win their 11th European Cup back in May, | :14:24. | :14:37. | |
he then captained Portugal to their first major trophy, | :14:38. | :14:39. | |
the European Championship, over the summer. | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
48 goals in 52 matches in the calendar year. | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
He got more than twice as many voting points as Messi. | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
Their rivalry has almost become defined by who gets | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
this gong every year, so Ronaldo was very happy, | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
we going to hear from him or not? We'd like to. | :15:04. | :15:28. | |
It is the dream come true again and I never thought in my mind to win | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
four times the golden ball. So I'm so pleased. I'm so happy. I have to | :15:35. | :15:42. | |
thank all my team-mates, the national team, Real Madrid, all the | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
people, all the players who helped to win this individual award. | :15:48. | :15:58. | |
He looked quite emotional there? It is a big deal for him. He won it | :15:59. | :16:05. | |
three times before, but like I say getting one over on Lionel Messi is | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
a big deal for Cristiano Ronaldo. What about British players? How did | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
they fair? Pretty good. Two in the top ten. We had Gareth Bale sixth, | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
Real Madrid and he helped Wales get into the semifinals at the European | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
Championship. Brilliant for him this year as well, but Jamie Vardy, what | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
he did for Leicester. He came eighth in the voting. His goals propelled | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
them to that incredible title last season. It is a weird voting system | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
and he only got ten voting points Vardy to get into the top ten. | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
Cristiano Ronaldo got 700 odd, there were reports that there was one | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
journalist of the 173 who voted who thought that Jamie Vardy was the | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
best player in the world. One of Vardy's Leicester team-mates came | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
seventh and picked up the BBC African Player of the Year yesterday | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
as well. A good individual prize for him as well. Congratulations. | :17:12. | :17:14. | |
Cheers, Olly. More from Olly throughout the morning. | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
What's going on in Aleppo, Syria's second city? | :17:20. | :17:26. | |
For four years it has been a key battleground in the Syrian civil | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
war, a battle between Syrian soldiers fighting on behalf | :17:30. | :17:31. | |
of their president, President Assad and those who oppose the way | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
As a result, Aleppo has ended up divided roughly in half, | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
with opposition supporters and what are called rebel fighters | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
controlling the east and the Syrian government the west. | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
You may possibly be immune to reports of the fighting there. | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
It's been going on for a long time after all, and nothing | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
Apart from more people being killed of course. | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
But reports today say the battle of Aleppo is reaching its bloody | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
conclusion because Syrian government forces say they're close to taking | :18:02. | :18:03. | |
And there are warnings this morning of atrocities in the east. | :18:04. | :18:11. | |
It is feared civilians - dads, brothers, mums, | :18:12. | :18:13. | |
sisters, children - are being slaughtered | :18:14. | :18:14. | |
Syrian state TV shows some people in parts of the city celebrating, | :18:15. | :18:25. | |
after the army swept through more rebel districts. | :18:26. | :18:54. | |
Some posts on social media tell a very different story. | :18:55. | :19:01. | |
Residents have been posting their wills and saying goodbye | :19:02. | :19:03. | |
to their families because they don't expect to survive. | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
Look at this tweet from someone inside Aleppo. | :19:10. | :19:26. | |
Rebel fighters are trapped in a small pocket in the east along with | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
thousands of civilians. We don't know. It is impossible to say how | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
many and they have come under bombardment from the Syrian Army | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
backed up by Russian planes dropping bombs. | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
The UN secretary general has expressed alarm at reports of | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
atrocities against large numbers of civilians. | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
This tweet is from Bana. : This was retweeted 7,700 times. That | :19:52. | :20:24. | |
will not do her any good, though, will it? The White Helmets have | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
tweeted this: We have not been able to verify all | :20:30. | :20:39. | |
of the tweets we've shown. On the programme yesterday we spoke | :20:40. | :21:14. | |
to Abdul Kafi Alhamado an English He told us about the desperate | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
situation people were facing. The situation in Aleppo is the | :21:18. | :21:28. | |
doomsday. Really it is the doomsday. It is the doomsday. Just when I'm | :21:29. | :21:38. | |
coming here to the internet centre I have to take maybe 15 minutes | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
although it is so close to my house because bombs, bombs are everywhere. | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
People are running. They don't know where. Just running. Some people are | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
injured in the streets. No one can dare go to help them. Some of them, | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
some people are under the rubble. No one can help them. They just leave | :21:59. | :22:06. | |
them until they die under the rubble. These houses are their | :22:07. | :22:13. | |
graves. Bombs here are like rain. People don't know what to do. For | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
me, I risked my life. I risked my life to go out because it is so | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
dangerous. No one can move ten meters or 20 without you know having | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
bombs close to them. People, most of them now don't have houses because | :22:31. | :22:37. | |
all those people who moved from areas that were controlled by the | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
regime now are in our areas. It is so dangerous and the bombs are like | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
rain. They make very, very huge numbers of casualties and kill | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
people. That was Abdul talking to us live | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
yesterday. Abdul is now posting his final | :22:56. | :22:56. | |
message on social media Don't believe anymore in the United | :22:57. | :23:16. | |
Nations. Don't believe anymore in the international community. Don't | :23:17. | :23:24. | |
think that they are not satisfied with what's going on. We are being | :23:25. | :23:39. | |
killed. We are facing one of the most difficult or the most serious | :23:40. | :23:47. | |
or the most horrible massacres that is in the new history. Russia | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
doesn't want us to go out alive. They want us dead. Assad is the | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
same. Exactly yesterday there were many celebrations on the other part | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
of Aleppo. They were celebrating on our bodies. It's OK. This is life. | :24:06. | :24:16. | |
At least we know that... We were free people. We wanted freedom. | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
Wow, we wanted freedom. Let's speak to Caroline Anning from | :24:22. | :24:35. | |
Save The Children. Mohamed you say you've lost contact | :24:36. | :24:49. | |
with your friends and relatives in Aleppo. When was the last time you | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
spoke to them? Twonchts days ago actually in the evening. That was | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
the last time I spoke to them and they were saying do anything that | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
you can to help us like try to go to the street or anything, just get out | :25:03. | :25:12. | |
of there. Right. When you hear that last video message saying we don't | :25:13. | :25:15. | |
believe in the United Nations anymore, he's right, isn't he? Yeah, | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
I mean, that's what I actually was hearing from all my friends. They | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
said they lost faith in humanity at all now. They don't believe that the | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
world can see them, see what's happening there and leave them there | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
and like just continue as if nothing is happening. Caroline, it's, I | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
mean, there is absolutely nothing anyone can do, do you think that's | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
fair? Well, I don't think it is fair to say that there is nothing that | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
anybody can do. We have the ability as the international community to | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
solve anything, I think, if people would really put their effort into | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
it and we've failed. I mean what is true is we have utterly failed to | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
protect civilians and children in particular in east Aleppo. Let me | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
interrupt. Nothing is going to change now, the Syrian Government | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
forces, if what they say is true, that they have nearly re-taken the | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
whole of Aleppo, nothing is going to stop that from happening and | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
therefore, nothing is going to stop more civilians potentially being | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
killed? Well, I have to disagree and say I think that we can stop | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
civilians being killed. We still have that opportunity. So you're | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
right the Syrian army has taken 98% of the territory that was opposition | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
held in east Aleppo. That seems like that's now a fact. That area is | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
going to fall, but that doesn't mean that we can't still protect the aid | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
workers and the civilians, the children that are still trapped in | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
that area. Now that the military situation is at an end we see no | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
reason why we can't now have a ceasefire and allow for the safe | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
passage monitored by the Red Cross and the UN to allow people out of | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
those areas, to at least save some lives to, at least make sure that | :27:00. | :27:02. | |
those aid workers and those children are able to leave safely. | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
But if there is to be a ceasefire, if you were President Assad, you | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
would not agree to that until you had re-taken 100% of Aleppo which | :27:12. | :27:14. | |
means more people will be killed in the meantime? Well, that's | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
something, you know, Britain, the UK Parliament is meeting this morning. | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
We sit on the UN Security Council, with the Russians who have been key | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
allies of the Syrian Government and supported them through this. We | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
shouldn't ever say that anything is impossible. Yes, they might want to | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
take the rest of the territory, but does that mean we can't open up safe | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
routes to get civilians out? I don't think so. We have seen it done in | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
other conflicts and it can be done here. We have done it for too long | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
that we have thrown our hands up and said Syria is impossible and Aleppo | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
is impossible this. Is the outcome that people lie and people leave | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
their homes. We will talk to someone who is in the west of Aleppo who is | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
working there for the international committee of the Red Cross. I hope | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
you can hear us OK. Clearly, being in the west is very different from | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
being in the east, the west is run by President Assad and his | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
Government effectively. But what are you hearing from those who are | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
trapped in the east as Syrian soldiers try to re-take what is | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
still held by rebel fighters and opposition activists? | :28:23. | :28:34. | |
From the people who fled from the eastern side to the western side | :28:35. | :28:42. | |
right now are in collective service under the control of the local | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
authorities. There is stories of immense human suffering. The stories | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
that are unbelievable. Stories of really a deep, deep suffering on the | :28:55. | :29:01. | |
individual, of the difficult choices those people have to make every day. | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
Very, very tragic humanitarian situation in the places from where | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
they have to flee or where they currently are. This is our main | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
concern for the time being. The fate of the civilians, whatever they | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
choose to do, whether they stay or they decide to flee, they must be | :29:26. | :29:32. | |
protected and it is in the interests of the fighting sites to protect | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
them. To protect them and let the humanitarian organisations such as | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
the Red Crescent to reach them with their humanitarian aid. Are you | :29:42. | :29:49. | |
getting reports from people in the east about civilians being | :29:50. | :29:56. | |
slaughtered on the streets? We are hearing a lot of reports and social | :29:57. | :30:03. | |
media and the TV programmes are full of the different accounts and stuff. | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
I mean honestly, right now it is very difficult to know what is true | :30:08. | :30:14. | |
what is not true. For us, the main concern is to reach those people and | :30:15. | :30:23. | |
we are offering or service because this is our mandate there, is what | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
we have been doing for over 150 years. We are offering those | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
services to the fighting sides to implement any provision of their | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
mutual agreements for the sake of the civilians that will allow | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
civilians to get humanitarian aid or allow them to be evacuated in safety | :30:44. | :30:51. | |
and we are ready. There must be agreement between the sides. | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
This message from Tony says there is not enough independent reporting | :30:57. | :31:06. | |
from Aleppo, we don't actually know what is going on. For one thing | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
Aleppo has been under siege since the summer Thomason is the start of | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
July, so no international aid agencies have been able to go in, | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
and no journalists are there either. But we have trusted partners there, | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
hundreds of aid workers, people we have worked with for a number of | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
years, and while I can't go into the city, we speak to them every day, we | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
have monitoring mechanisms, and what we do know is that indiscriminate | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
bombing is happening on civilian areas, hospitals and schools have | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
been hit, hundreds of children have been killed, and there is almost no | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
food left. Those are things we can guarantee. We cannot consider every | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
incident or story to be verified, but we know there is immense human | :32:00. | :32:02. | |
suffering, and there has been for months. What do you want the | :32:03. | :32:10. | |
international community to do? It is not an issue of whether we can or | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
can't do something. We have always been able to do something. What has | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
been missing is the lack of political will. Our policymakers | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
have been scapegoating random issues and facts on the ground to make | :32:23. | :32:30. | |
excuses for their in action. We can ensure the safety of civilians if we | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
have the political will to do so. We can ensure a ceasefire if we have | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
the political will to do so. I appeal to everyone watching, we have | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
seen horrible footage, up from Aleppo, we have heard appeals from | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
the residents, and I appeal to everybody watching this to get in | :32:49. | :32:50. | |
touch with your elected officials, to let them know that they must take | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
action, they must call for action by the Government, by the UK Government | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
or other governments. To take action to ensure civilian protection in | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
Aleppo and in Syria as a whole. When you say, get in touch with your | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
elected representatives in Britain to ask them to take action, what is | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
the action you want them to take? In East Aleppo we see massacres of | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
people on the ground, heavy bombardment. We need to ensure | :33:22. | :33:27. | |
safety of civilians, safe passage. In particle terms, that is the | :33:28. | :33:34. | |
international community saying to God Amir Putin and Bashar al-Assad, | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
and various other fighters who have joined, pause for a moment, you have | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
nearly taken Aleppo, but just let the civilians out? They are not | :33:46. | :33:51. | |
going to do that. Even more, stop the bombardment. When we say let the | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
civilians out and keep bombing, the issue is the bombing as well. We | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
need to find a solution for Syria. While policymakers have said they | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
want a political solution, what progress have we seen on this track? | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
We have let Assad and Russia bomb Syria for the last five plus years, | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
and we have not done anything about it. We need to protect the Lee | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
Evans, whether that means allowing those who want to get out safe | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
passage, and also to stop the bombs that are coming from the air. Thank | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
you very much. What drives | :34:33. | :34:51. | |
men and women to join We speak to a man in Germany | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
who went to live with them in Syria And after 10am, the second largest | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
home care provider in the UK, tell us they can't afford to operate | :35:00. | :35:11. | |
on the money they're being paid. Annita is in the BBC Newsroom | :35:12. | :35:19. | |
with a summary of the news. The Government says it's prepared | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
to consider banning strikes on the railways as thousands | :35:25. | :35:26. | |
of passengers in the south-east of England find themselves | :35:27. | :35:29. | |
unable to get to work. Drivers from the Aslef union began | :35:30. | :35:32. | |
a 48-hour walkout at midnight, with a further 24-hour strike | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
set for Friday. There will be no trains on any route | :35:39. | :35:41. | |
and people are warned not to travel. Passengers have already suffered | :35:42. | :35:53. | |
months of disruption in the dispute over the role of conductors. | :35:54. | :35:56. | |
Syrian government forces say they are close to taking full | :35:57. | :35:59. | |
control of Aleppo after a four-year battle for the city. | :36:00. | :36:01. | |
Rebel fighters are now trapped in a small pocket of their former | :36:02. | :36:04. | |
stronghold in the east, along with thousands of civilians, | :36:05. | :36:06. | |
and have come under intense bombardment. | :36:07. | :36:08. | |
The UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has expressed alarm at reports | :36:09. | :36:10. | |
of atrocities against large numbers of civilians. | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
A damning review by the Care Quality Commission has found that the NHS | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
is putting lives at risk by failing to learn from the | :36:17. | :36:19. | |
The regulator concluded there isn't a single trust in England | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
investigating deaths properly, that the health service is often | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
defensive about errors, and families are regularly | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
The NHS has said the "whole system must do better". | :36:30. | :36:36. | |
Around 3,500 Post Office workers are to go on strike | :36:37. | :36:39. | |
for five days next week, in a dispute over jobs, | :36:40. | :36:41. | |
The Communication Workers Union says the walkout at the larger | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
Crown Post Offices will start next Monday and include Christmas Eve. | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
The Post Office says it will be "business as usual" in the vast | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
Adele has dominated the BBC Music Awards | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
She picked up Song Of The Year for Hello and Album Of The Year for 25. | :36:59. | :37:05. | |
She wasn't there in person to receive the awards, | :37:06. | :37:07. | |
leaving Robbie Williams to do the honours. | :37:08. | :37:09. | |
Coldplay were another absent winner, accepting their prize | :37:10. | :37:11. | |
for Best British Artist as they walked | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News, more at 10am. | :37:15. | :37:26. | |
Messages about the Southern Rail strike. Ian says, I agree with the | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
unions are. I think they are right, if something goes wrong, how can one | :37:34. | :37:40. | |
person, the driver, react when he is supposed to drive the train? Guards | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
and conductors perform a valuable and much appreciated service. I | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
would pay more to know I am safe. Southern Rail say that there would | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
not just be only the driver on the train, there would be another member | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
of staff. Samuel says, I am a Southern Rail user, I have never | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
been so does outside with any service in my life. There is no such | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
thing as compromise anymore. Here are the sport headlines | :38:07. | :38:08. | |
now with Olly Foster. Cristiano Ronaldo has won the Ballon | :38:09. | :38:18. | |
d'Or, but the world's Mike Best footballer. He finished a shred of | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
Lionel Messi. He won the European cup with Real Madrid and the | :38:25. | :38:26. | |
European Championships Portugal. Arabs bail and Jamie Vardy came | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
sixth and eighth. Walter Swinburn has died at 55, he | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
won the Derby three times. His most famous victory was on-board Shergar | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
in 1981. History will be made in the Ashes | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
Series next year, the match in Adelaide will be the first day night | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
Test match between England and Australia. | :38:47. | :38:47. | |
I am back after 10am. Sorry, I was going to move over | :38:48. | :39:01. | |
there, then I thought, I am going to stay right where I am! I have the | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
latest inflation figures, it has risen 18 at it. The dish prices | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
index shows it rose by 1.2% in the year to November, compared with a | :39:14. | :39:15. | |
0.9% rise in the year to October. Hundreds of thousands of rail | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
passengers are dealing with travel chaos this morning after a walkout | :39:19. | :39:20. | |
by Southern Rail train drivers. There will be no | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
trains on any route. It all started in a row over | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
who would push the button to activate the train doors, | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
drivers or conductors. # I asked the unions, | :39:32. | :39:39. | |
when will it end? So not really looking forward | :39:40. | :39:54. | |
to probably having to stand Can't get a seat in most | :39:55. | :40:31. | |
trains on normal days, and then when there is a strike, | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
it's just doubly disrupted. And right now I've left a bit later, | :40:39. | :40:39. | |
I'm not sure when I'm I've heard that people are just | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
giving up and driving to Brighton. # I asked the Government, | :40:46. | :40:47. | |
when will it end? I'm just fed up to | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
the back teeth of this. Week after week, and the same | :40:52. | :41:18. | |
thing all the time. It's extremely tiring | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
and inconvenient and I have no idea what time I'll get | :41:22. | :41:23. | |
home this evening. # Clowns to the left of me, | :41:24. | :42:00. | |
jokers to the right. The past couple of weeks I've been | :42:01. | :42:09. | |
coming home 40 minutes later, Maybe they'll run, | :42:10. | :42:12. | |
maybe they won't run. Maybe I'll get to see my kids | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
before they go to bed And that's all down to people | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
who are, at best, incompetent. Regular Southern Rail | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
commuters say they're constantly met with delays, | :42:25. | :42:26. | |
cancellations and Some say they fear losing their jobs | :42:27. | :42:28. | |
because they're constantly late, businesses say it's | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
affecting their trade. Some have given up their jobs | :42:33. | :42:43. | |
because they cannot cope with the commute anymore. | :42:44. | :42:45. | |
We can speak now to some fairly frustrated commuters. | :42:46. | :42:48. | |
Peter Izzard commutes up to London five times a week and spends over | :42:49. | :42:51. | |
Emma Green from Littlehampton has quit her job because the commute to | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
Matt Steel says he gave up his job in London to work locally in Horsham | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
in West Sussex because the commute had become so bad. | :43:03. | :43:04. | |
Lee Lockwood says his work are not happy, he's worried about his boss. | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
I pay over ?4000 per year. What do you think about what is going on? It | :43:09. | :43:20. | |
is an absolute debacle. It is a war of attrition between the unions and | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
the train companies. The service is deteriorating each day. Total and | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
utter uncertainty. When you leave work in the evening, you have got | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
absolutely no idea how atrocious your journey will be, how long it | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
will take, and whether you will get home at all. It is awful. Emma, you | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
have quit your job because the commute to London from Littlehampton | :43:48. | :43:50. | |
lost too much. That is a massive decision to make. Give us an insight | :43:51. | :43:58. | |
into why you were so hacked off. I had started a new job in June. | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
Having previously committed, I thought it would be fine, there | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
would be no problems, but very quickly come up within a week, I was | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
having journeys home of anything up to four and a half hours, and it | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
should take an hour and a half. I could not bear it, I was talking to | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
my son on the train because I could not put him to bed, and crying. Cool | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
because I was letting him down and my family down, and I had enough. | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
Have you been able to get other work? Yes, I now commute to | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
Portsmouth, and our's Drive, so I don't have to step foot on a | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
Southern Rail trainer. Tell us what you did as a result of these | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
journeys. Very similar to Emma. I had previously committed to London. | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
I noticed from the beginning of the year that things were getting worse. | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
That is even before the strikes started. I made the decision that I | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
was no longer going to carry on in the job I was doing and find a job | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
closer to home, because I was not seeing my family, it was incredibly | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
stressful, because you did not know what kind of day you were going to | :45:14. | :45:16. | |
have, often the journeys home were worse than the journeys up, so you | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
ended up not seeing your children and getting home in time, you could | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
not make arrangements with friends, because used to -- you did not know | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
when you are going to be back. I was glad I changed jobs. | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
Lee what about your situation? It is horrific. When it is strike day it | :45:37. | :45:43. | |
is running better for myself. The service is abysmal. You don't know | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
what's happening from one day to the next. It is getting steadily worse. | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
It is chaos, a commute to work should be not too bad, it is the | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
worst part of my day and that includes my eight hour day. I'm | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
lucky if I get home half an hour late. My partner is fed-up of me | :46:04. | :46:11. | |
being miserable. I'm fed-up of it. I pay ?55.20 a week, the reason I | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
don't pay for monthly or yearly tickets, I don't know where I stand | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
one day to the next. Touf judge it by week. I want to ask all of you | :46:20. | :46:26. | |
where you stand on the issue of driver-only trains. Should the | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
driver be the one that closes the doors as opposed a to a conductor. | :46:31. | :46:41. | |
Now Southern say it wouldn't just be a driver, but there would be another | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
member of staff on the train, do you care? Would it be safer? What do you | :46:46. | :46:52. | |
say Peter? Part of the Southern Network is run by Thameslink and | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
Thameslink are driver-only trains. So no one complains about that. It | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
is part of the same franchise. My view is, look, it is as deemed as | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
safe and Southern are saying allegedly there will be another | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
member of the train crew on the train. So I think the issue here is | :47:12. | :47:18. | |
one of job preservation in my opinion. What do you say, Emma? The | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
thing is, you've got so many people affected by this. It really actually | :47:25. | :47:31. | |
doesn't matter now. They need to get around a table and talk about it and | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
put something in place which is going to improve our lives. | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
Lee, what about yourself? No, guards should be on the train. It is safer | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
for many people, you know, it is reassuring to see people on the | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
train like guards just keeping an eye on yourself. You only saw what | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
happened at Forest Hill, a guy running amok with a knife, whether | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
there was a guard, if the driver is in his cab, he doesn't know what's | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
going on inside the carriage, there could be someone taking badly ill, | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
there could be someone with bad inat any time. I have seen a woman try | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
and get a bike off a train, the train doors have shut on the bike, | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
it is crushing the bike, the driver is still trying to slam the door | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
shut not even seeing what is going on, it took three of us to open the | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
doors it get the bike through the doors, the bike was crushed, but the | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
driver didn't care. I heard the boss of the company on the radio this | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
morning saying it wouldn't just be the driver on that train. There | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
would be another member of staff to do, to help with the squashed bike | :48:36. | :48:45. | |
in the doors for example? You You need to see it to believe it. The | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
guards are going to strike for a reason. They don't want to do it. | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
The commuters is on the side, you know. Matt, where are you, the boss | :48:54. | :49:01. | |
said there will be no job losses? I would prefer a guard being | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
responsible for closing the doors. I think that sort of this reliance on | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
the CCTV camera that has a view up the side of the train, I appreciate | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
on the Thameslink trains wruf got long, straight platforms that maybe | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
that would work, the platforms are curved, you can't get a proper view | :49:21. | :49:23. | |
down the back of the train unless you have a member of staff who steps | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
off the train and looks up and down it and gets back on and closes the | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
door when they know it is safe. You can't do that with a CCTV camera. Do | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
you back the strike then? I think I would. Having been a commuter for | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
quite a while on Southern, this is not just about the doors. This is | :49:43. | :49:48. | |
the fact that Southern sort of, you know, lost the confidence of their | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
staff years ago. You would hear the guards talking on the train about | :49:53. | :49:55. | |
little things happening to their shifts, to the way that they are | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
working and they were getting more and more fed-up and the door thing | :50:00. | :50:02. | |
was just a catalyst for the fact that the management and the unions | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
stopped talking a long time ago and entered a trench warfare. Yes yes or | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
no from all four of you if you wouldn't mind. The Transport | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
Secretary says he wouldn't rule out banning strikes on railways. Peter, | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
would you support that, yes or no? Yes. Emma? No. Matt? No. Lee? No. | :50:20. | :50:33. | |
Are you sure? Well... You know, I just want it to end. Chris Grayling, | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
he hasn't got a clue what's going on. If he did see and it is plain to | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
see for everyone this service abysmal. It has got to end. It has | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
to. You know, it is no good. It is people's lives, you know, are being | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
ruined here and it is just not right. It is just not right. Thank | :50:51. | :50:57. | |
you very much. Your frustration is coming through | :50:58. | :51:04. | |
loud and clear. Sandra says, "Southern Trains | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
management should be sacked. They handled the dispute badly causing 21 | :51:09. | :51:14. | |
days strikes. The drivers and the guards aren't striking for more | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
money, but for safety. They lose their pay when they strike. The | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
public are treated disgracefully." Coming up, Adele dominates | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
the BBC Music Awards We'll have the latest | :51:27. | :51:28. | |
on all the winners and losers. Breaking news on the | :51:29. | :51:36. | |
rate of inflation. Our Economics Editor, | :51:37. | :51:38. | |
Kamal Ahmed, is here. What is inflation? Higher prices. | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
OK. What are the figures today? Well, they show a significant | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
increase. We've been warned for a number of months since the | :51:48. | :51:50. | |
referendum to leave the European Union that prices would be or might | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
be going up, that's because the fall in sterling, we import a lot of food | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
and a lot of fuel, if we have a weaker currency prices will be going | :52:03. | :52:05. | |
up. Today, we have seen the first real evidence of that. The inflation | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
number has gone up from 0.9% to 1.2%. So quite a big increase, but | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
of course, that is still quite a small number, but if prices are | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
higher, the pound in people's pocket doesn't go as far and clothing | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
prices have increased. The price of fuel has increased and interestingly | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
a lot of the gadgets that buy have increased. A lot of the computer | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
firms have put up the prices of phones and of iPads and of tablets. | :52:35. | :52:41. | |
But the big issue will be for next year people will be seeing these | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
higher prices feeding through into the economy at the same time as | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
their real n the actual amount they're earning is flat and that | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
becomes the big issue that people's incomes are not keeping up with the | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
price increases and that goes to this whole big debate about the just | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
managing families, finding it tougher and tougher to make the | :53:03. | :53:05. | |
household finances work. Thank you very much. | :53:06. | :53:16. | |
The second largest home care provider group says had to to pull | :53:17. | :53:24. | |
out of contracts with councils because they can't afford to operate | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
on the money they are being paid. They provide care at home to 10,000 | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
elderly people. Alan Long is the Chief Executive of the group. | :53:32. | :53:37. | |
The UK home care association says companies like yours should get | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
?16.70 per hour to allow you to provide decent care for people in | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
their own homes as well as paying your staff a legal wage. What is the | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
lowest amount per hour that you have been offered? Under ?13 an hour. I | :53:52. | :54:01. | |
think, you know, just to say ?16.70 is the minimum and based on somebody | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
earning the minimum Living Wage and I believe actually that home care | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
now, the skills required to deliver the kind of service that elderly | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
people need to stay safe in their own home, it is not a minimum wage | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
job. So the comparison you gave is right. The minimum is ?16.70, but | :54:20. | :54:25. | |
actually there are councils asking for providers to deliver the service | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
for under ?13 in the UK at the moment. What do you think of that? | :54:30. | :54:37. | |
Well, I appreciate councils have had massive cuts it their budgets and | :54:38. | :54:42. | |
that of course, social care is the biggest single spend that councils | :54:43. | :54:45. | |
have, but it can't be right even with that situation that councils | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
are effectively asking providers to, I think, breach Living Wage, minimum | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
wage regulations because certainly based on our calculations you can't | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
deliver that service legally at those really low rates. Well, you | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
could, if you took less in profit, I assume? Well, we don't make any | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
profit at all and we're not alone in that as a provider. You must make | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
some profit. No, we don't. So you run this company and you absolutely | :55:14. | :55:19. | |
break even, you don't make a penny more? No, we're in a fortunate | :55:20. | :55:28. | |
position unlike many care providers, we deliver other services such as | :55:29. | :55:31. | |
housing services. Now, at the moment, we have been open and frank | :55:32. | :55:36. | |
about that, our housing services are effectively subsidising our care | :55:37. | :55:38. | |
services which is why we have been able to keep, you know, services | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
going as long as we have with many councils. If it wasn't for our | :55:43. | :55:49. | |
housing based services and on our care services, you can see we have | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
lost as many providers, a significant amount of money and | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
we've done that because we believe that in the long-term there has to | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
be a solution found to deliver a decent service to elderly people in | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
this country. OK, so how many more contracts are you going to pull out | :56:07. | :56:14. | |
of? Well, I hope none. Obviously recently the Living Wage change for | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
next year has been announced. Living Wage is going up again next year and | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
there is various other cost increases. We don't want to pull out | :56:24. | :56:26. | |
of any contracts because the effect on that for our staff is significant | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
and of course the effect on that for service users is significant. You've | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
already pulled out of three local authority contracts? Yes, but based | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
on what happened in April last year, again we have long discussions with | :56:42. | :56:44. | |
councils as you can imagine, we don't just pull out of contracts | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
overnight. Up to last year we never pulled out of any, when you are | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
being asked to deliver a service at rates which are ?4 below the minimum | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
that's been identified for care, I think, it is the responsible to do. | :56:59. | :57:04. | |
Because if providers do continue to accept these kind of contracts at | :57:05. | :57:08. | |
frankly ridiculous rates, nothing will change. | :57:09. | :57:18. | |
So as I understand it, you have got 90 contracts with councils and | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
commissioning groups. How many of the 90 are offering you below the | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
minimum deemed right by the UK home care association? Increasingly few | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
now. So because we have been much more, you notion we have been much | :57:35. | :57:37. | |
more selective and many of the councils that we work with have, you | :57:38. | :57:45. | |
know, are paying more than the ?16.70. I think the really smart | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
councils are ones who have recognised that, you know, you're | :57:51. | :57:53. | |
asking me questions about the hourly rate at the moment. The real cost is | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
not so much the hourly rate, it is whether the quality of care that's | :57:59. | :58:05. | |
provided by the provider can lead to the recipient actually recovering | :58:06. | :58:08. | |
their independence so they don't get admitted into residential care or | :58:09. | :58:12. | |
into hospitals before they need to be and as well as being a much more | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
expensive setting in residential care and in hospitals, for most | :58:17. | :58:19. | |
people, it is where they don't want to be. | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
Alan Long the Chief Executive of the Mears Group. Latest news and sport | :58:24. | :58:26. | |
before the weather. A big meteor shower coming. Never | :58:27. | :58:35. | |
seen one. Is tonight the night? Not for you, Victoria. Disappointing, | :58:36. | :58:46. | |
no. It is a Geminid meteor shower. It peaks at 2am. It is favoured to | :58:47. | :58:51. | |
see it from the Northern Hemisphere, but you will be able to see it from | :58:52. | :58:55. | |
the Southern Hemisphere as well. You need clear skies to see it at its | :58:56. | :58:58. | |
best and the best viewing areas are Northern Scotland and Wales. But the | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
other thing is tonight, the moon size we've got a super moon, it is | :59:03. | :59:09. | |
99.8% full. It is a big, bright moon which may impact how much of the | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
meteors that you actually see. But having said that, those particular | :59:14. | :59:18. | |
meteors are very bright. So there is a good chance you will. If you don't | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
see them tonight, look out for the next couple of nights. If you are | :59:23. | :59:25. | |
looking for them, they come in spurts. So you will see a blast of | :59:26. | :59:28. | |
them and then there will be a lull and then you may see another blast | :59:29. | :59:32. | |
of them. They sound amazing. I would love to see them. I have never seen | :59:33. | :59:37. | |
one either. Well, get home to Northern Scotland then! What are you | :59:38. | :59:39. | |
saying? Thank you very much, Victoria, on | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
that note! We have got a dull, damp and murky start and really that's | :59:46. | :59:48. | |
the way it is going to continue. We have had clear skies across the far | :59:49. | :59:51. | |
north of Scotland. So here we have got sunshine. It was also a cold | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
start with frost. But as you can see from the yellow plume across the | :59:56. | :59:59. | |
chart, it is going to be a mild day. For the next few days, it will be | :00:00. | :00:03. | |
mild. It is as we head into the weekend we start to see things cool | :00:04. | :00:05. | |
down with night-time frosts. when you are going to be back. I was | :00:06. | :00:10. | |
glad I changed jobs. Through the afternoon we should see | :00:11. | :00:17. | |
some brighter breaks, and we will hang onto them across northern | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
Scotland. For Northern Ireland, a fine afternoon, pleasant for this | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
stage of December. As we come further south, we have the rain | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
moving north, through the Southern uplands, the central lowlands and | :00:32. | :00:37. | |
the Highlands. Move south again, a lot of cloud across northern | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
England. Some spots of rain, nothing too heavy. Across the Midlands, into | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
East Anglia, Essex Kent, Southern counties, a lot of cloud. One or two | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
brighter breaks, but they will be the exception, and that extends into | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
south-west England. That is a high temperature in Plymouth. A lot of | :00:59. | :01:05. | |
cloud around for Wales. The rain moves north as we go through the | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
course of the night, hence a better chance of seeing the media shower in | :01:10. | :01:15. | |
North Wales and North Scotland. Under the weather front introduces | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
heavier rain and strengthening winds. As we go through tomorrow, it | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
is not moving particularly quickly and it is bumping into a ridge of | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
high pressure, so the progress will be slow. I had of the rain, a lot of | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
dry weather, sunshine, and a bit more cloud along the east coast. | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
Behind it, things improve, it will dry out and brighten up. For western | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
Scotland and Northern Ireland we could see quite a lot of rain. The | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
temperatures are above average for December. For Thursday, the weather | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
front tries to get into that area of high pressure, but it loses the | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
battle and comes in as a band of cloud, some patchy rain. Later, | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
another one comes from the West, introducing more wet and windy | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
weather. The temperatures coming down a bit in the north but still | :02:09. | :02:10. | |
pretty high in the South. Hello, it's Tuesday, it's 10am, | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
I'm Victoria Derbyshire. There are no trains on any | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
route on Southern's Drivers are on strike in a row over | :02:18. | :02:26. | |
who pushes the door button. I wish there was another way for | :02:27. | :02:48. | |
them to resolve their dispute. This is the problem, I have university, | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
exams, and there are no trains, so how am I supposed to get there | :02:54. | :02:54. | |
today? A complete meltdown in Aleppo, that | :02:55. | :03:07. | |
is how you when are describing the situation. Residents are warning of | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
atrocities. We are not satisfied that we are | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
being killed, that we are facing one of the most difficult or the most | :03:21. | :03:28. | |
serious or the most horrible massacres in history. | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
Although, at the BBC Music Awards, guess who was the big winner. | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
The winner of the album of the year goes to... The goddess that is | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
Adele! Here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom | :03:45. | :03:51. | |
with a summary of today's news. The Government says it's prepared | :03:52. | :04:00. | |
to consider banning strikes on the railways as thousands | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
of passengers in the south-east of England find themselves | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
unable to get to work. Train drivers on Southern Rail | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
began a 48-hour strike at midnight, the latest action | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
in the long-running dispute The Transport Secretary Chris | :04:13. | :04:14. | |
Grayling says he will look at changing the law over strike | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
action on the railways It is a long-running dispute that | :04:19. | :04:20. | |
has forced people to change jobs and move houses because they cannot | :04:21. | :04:29. | |
rely on the trains. Now the drivers are joining in, | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
it is about to get much worse. There is nothing at all | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
going from stations I am I pay ?230 a month, I have been late | :04:40. | :04:41. | |
to work or home from work A lot of people are paying | :04:42. | :04:53. | |
for a season ticket, It will wipe out more than 2,000 | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
daily services on some They could solve this this | :04:58. | :05:04. | |
morning if they sit down, sort out a deal and call | :05:05. | :05:13. | |
off the strikes. It is not fair on the passengers | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
that they pursue this Southern wants its drivers to take | :05:17. | :05:18. | |
over the job of closing the doors. Currently, the on-board | :05:19. | :05:26. | |
guard does it. The company says a third | :05:27. | :05:28. | |
of Britain's services already work that way and it has | :05:29. | :05:30. | |
been deemed safe. The unions disagree, | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
saying that the guard has a much-better view of the doors | :05:35. | :05:36. | |
than the driver and can see The Government says | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
automated trains are vital The unions fear it is going to lead | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
to getting rid of a second Whatever happens here | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
could be repeated on other UK inflation rose to 1.2% | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
in November, the highest rate Increases in the prices of clothing, | :06:00. | :06:08. | |
fuel and hotel and restaurant charges were behind | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
the slightly But there were falls in air fares | :06:14. | :06:15. | |
and food and non-alcoholic drinks. The United Nations has received | :06:16. | :06:31. | |
reports of pro-government forces entering houses in eastern Aleppo | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
and killing those inside, including women and children. It says it has | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
evidence of 82 civilians being shot on the spot. Have an forces say they | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
are close to taking full control of the city after a four-year battle. | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
Rebel fighters are now trapped in a small pocket of their former | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
stronghold in the east, along with thousands of civilians, | :06:51. | :06:52. | |
and have come under intense bombardment. | :06:53. | :06:54. | |
And speaking from west Aleppo, Pawel Krzysiek | :06:55. | :06:55. | |
from the International Committee Of The Red Cross told us earlier | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
in this programme that those civilians have to be the priority. | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
Very, very tragic humanitarian situation in the places from where | :07:03. | :07:12. | |
they had to flee or where they currently are. This is our main | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
concern for the time being, the fate of the civilians. Whatever they | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
choose to do, where ever they stay or they decide to flee, they must be | :07:25. | :07:33. | |
protected. They must be protected and the humanitarian organisations | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
should be allowed to reach them with their humanitarian aid. | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
Adele has dominated the BBC Music Awards | :07:44. | :07:44. | |
She picked up Song Of The Year for Hello and Album Of The Year for 25. | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
She wasn't there in person to receive the awards, | :07:51. | :07:52. | |
leaving Robbie Williams to do the honours. | :07:53. | :07:54. | |
Coldplay were another absent winner, accepting their prize | :07:55. | :07:56. | |
for Best British Artist as they walked | :07:57. | :07:57. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News. | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
Let's get some more sport now with Olly Foster. | :08:05. | :08:15. | |
For the past nine years, Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi | :08:16. | :08:17. | |
have hoovered up the award for the best footballer | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
It's Ronaldo's turn this year, winning it for a fourth time, | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
finishing ahead of five-time winner Lionel Messi. | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
He won the European Cup with Real Madrid and the European Championship | :08:29. | :08:30. | |
with Portugal and has scored 48 goals in 52 matches in 2016. | :08:31. | :08:38. | |
Gareth Bale and Jamie Vardy came sixth and eighth in the voting. | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
I never thought in my mind to win four times the Golden Ball. | :08:45. | :08:59. | |
So I'm so pleased, I'm so happy I have an opportunity | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
to thank all my team-mates, the national team, Real Madrid, | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
all the people, all the players who helped me to win. | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
Leicester's Riyadh Mahrez was seventh in the voting | :09:15. | :09:16. | |
for the Ballon d'Or, but he came out on top in the BBC | :09:17. | :09:19. | |
The Algerian's goals and assists were key | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
to Leicester's Premier League title last season. | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
Manchester City midfielder Yaya Toure has pleaded guilty | :09:30. | :09:31. | |
to drink driving and been banned from driving for 18 months. | :09:32. | :09:39. | |
He did not contest the charge that he was over the limit, but in a | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
statement he said the judge accepted he had not intentionally consumed | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
alcohol. He is Muslim and says he has always refused alcohol. He was | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
arrested in London last month and has been fined's fined ?54,000. | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
In the last hour, Sale Sharks have announced the signing | :09:58. | :09:59. | |
of the Super League winger Denny Solomona from Castleford. | :10:00. | :10:01. | |
This comes after the player failed to report for preseason training | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
He announced he had retired from the game. | :10:07. | :10:16. | |
He had two years left on his contract and has now signed | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
a three-year deal with Sharks after switching codes. | :10:20. | :10:21. | |
The announcement could now result in legal action, | :10:22. | :10:23. | |
with Castleford threatening to take the issue to the High Court. | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
One of the great jockeys Walter Swinburn has died at 55, he won the | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
Derby three times. His most famous victory came in 1981, on-board the | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
horse Shergar. He was just 19 in that race. He was nicknamed the | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
choir boy and went on to become a successful trainer following his | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
retirement as a jockey. That is all this board for now, I am | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
back with the headlines in half an hour. | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
Let me read a couple of messages to do with Aleppo. Ron says, I see the | :11:00. | :11:08. | |
do something brigade have been on this morning. Call your MP? LOL. Joe | :11:09. | :11:19. | |
Q -- Joe Public does not care about Aleppo, stop droning on. We will | :11:20. | :11:27. | |
continue droning on. It was that there was a complete meltdown of | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
humour T in Aleppo. But they are just words, so we will talk about | :11:34. | :11:40. | |
what the UN can do. -- meltdown of humanity. | :11:41. | :11:42. | |
More than 800 men and women from the UK are believed to have | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
travelled to Syria and Iraq to join the so called Islamic State. | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
According to the British authorities, about half | :11:49. | :11:50. | |
And how should governments deal with those who want to come back? | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
Our reporter James Longman went to Germany to meet one young man | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
who went to live under the Islamic State in Syria | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
He spoke exclusively to this programme about what happened. | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
You may find some of his views offensive, but they are challenged | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
and they're important to hear to understand why people | :12:08. | :12:09. | |
Thousands of men and some women from all over Europe have travelled | :12:10. | :12:31. | |
About 850 have left from the UK, and something | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
But what makes them leave them the first place? | :12:37. | :12:47. | |
I went to Dresden in Germany to meet young one man who went | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
to live in the caliphate, but decided that life | :12:51. | :12:52. | |
We are searching for the purpose of life. | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
My friend came to me and he said, "Yeah, I've read some Islam | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
So I came to the point that Islam is a way of life. | :12:59. | :13:13. | |
And it all happened in quite a quick period? | :13:14. | :13:15. | |
Yes, it was in two or three months, I think. | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
So you went from someone who hadn't really thought about Islam... | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
To being someone who believed in it deeply and started to have very | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
clear ideas about the world and about what was wrong with it? | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
So, at this time, the so-called caliph had made an announcement | :13:34. | :13:41. | |
to get Muslims to go over to the Islamic State. | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
It was that there is, of course, a caliphate, | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
an Islamic caliphate, where you can live as a Muslim. | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
But I think the main fact was that there was war and that, | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
yeah, that someone has to help the families that don't have houses, | :14:03. | :14:12. | |
no food and, yeah, that was my main factor. | :14:13. | :14:14. | |
I think a lot of people watching this will look at you and think, | :14:15. | :14:17. | |
how could you look at IS and think that that was a good place to go? | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
Yeah, I thought, of course, it's a group who spent terror | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
But IS is also a state, an Islamic state, so I... | :14:28. | :14:37. | |
Well, it depends if you believe their propaganda, doesn't it? | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
Because surely their actions then negate their claim | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
The time that you went, already a certain number of Western | :14:46. | :14:53. | |
journalists and aid workers had been beheaded, publicly beheaded. | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
And then the Yazidis, who were infamously raped | :14:59. | :15:06. | |
All of these things had been well publicised. | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
So for you to still believe that this was a truly Islamic place, | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
I think a lot of people might find that, regardless of your own beliefs | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
in Islam, might find that difficult to believe. | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
Of course, difficulty, because, yeah, it's Islamic State who do | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
very dangerous things, who kill people and this is, | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
I mean, you could also live in Germany and be a good Muslim. | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
You could be an aid worker in any country in the world | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
But my opinion was in this time I want to practice Islam | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
in the highest level, and if you're here in Germany, | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
there's girls running with free bodies outside, | :15:57. | :15:57. | |
and if you see this as a Muslim, it's not good. | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
So I want to live in a country where the Islamic rules are the highest, | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
and also the caliphate, it's the only caliphate | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
At the time that you went, a lot of Muslim scholars | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
from around the world, people who have been reading | :16:19. | :16:20. | |
the Koran and studying the Koran a lot longer than you had, | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
were saying don't go, these are not real Muslims. | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
Did you listen, did you hear that advice? | :16:28. | :16:28. | |
And what did you make of it at the time? | :16:29. | :16:35. | |
My opinion, joined there and to only live in the Islamic state and not... | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
TRANSLATION: Samuel was always a calm boy. | :16:41. | :17:07. | |
He played a lot, had friends hung out with as he got older. | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
We raise them all within the Christian faith. | :17:14. | :17:22. | |
Samuel was confirmed, and after that he started searching, | :17:23. | :17:24. | |
You was always looking for the meaning of life, | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
and there's plenty about that to be found on the internet. | :17:29. | :17:30. | |
We never realised and never thought that he would go to Syria. | :17:31. | :17:50. | |
Or you are a fighter on the front line, or a normal fighter. | :17:51. | :17:58. | |
Normal fighter, front-line fighter, suicide bomber? | :17:59. | :18:09. | |
There was no option for humanitarian worker, was there? | :18:10. | :18:12. | |
Why did you think that fighting was wrong? | :18:13. | :18:14. | |
I think killing people for Islam or for any religion | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
But Max very definitely wanted to fight? | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
Because I think he took you to a gun range, you went shooting together | :18:24. | :18:39. | |
So did you practice shooting before you went to Syria? | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
I think people might find it strange that you went to practice | :18:47. | :18:58. | |
shooting before you went to be a humanitarian worker? | :18:59. | :19:00. | |
I think if you go in a place of war, you have to know how | :19:01. | :19:11. | |
Did you see or hear any of the bombardments, the airstrikes? | :19:12. | :19:22. | |
I was making my night prayer and then seconds later the bomb | :19:23. | :19:29. | |
behind the school came on the ground. | :19:30. | :19:31. | |
What were you doing on a daily basis? | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
We're making some groups of Arabic lessons. | :19:38. | :19:52. | |
So where did you start to think that you wanted to leave? | :19:53. | :20:00. | |
I knew when they wanted to have me for a fight. | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
And then I decided for me to leave IS. | :20:04. | :20:20. | |
TRANSLATION: Day and night we prayed the bombs would not hit him. | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
We tried everything to get in contact with him. | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
We were constantly at the computer writing e-mails to him, | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
TRANSLATION: Dear Sammy, please come back. | :20:32. | :20:43. | |
Take this pain and heartbreak away from your parents. | :20:44. | :20:45. | |
Most of all, take this burden of yourself so your little sister | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
Believe me, dear Sammy, war cannot be a way to tackle injustice. | :20:49. | :21:01. | |
Reading these e-mails, there came more feelings up, | :21:02. | :21:03. | |
and childhood came back, and all those feelings came to me. | :21:04. | :21:10. | |
And I realised that, yeah, I need my family, | :21:11. | :21:12. | |
and my friends need me, and the family. | :21:13. | :21:14. | |
So did you think you would die at that point? | :21:15. | :21:40. | |
Yeah, of course I thought about this. | :21:41. | :21:57. | |
Someone watching, again, might find this story | :21:58. | :21:59. | |
Mostly because you're a white European convert to Islam. | :22:00. | :22:09. | |
This was at a time inside the so-called Islamic State | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
where they were using videos to try to recruit other people | :22:15. | :22:21. | |
from Europe, other people from Western countries. | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
You would have been very, very important to IS because you're | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
This is the image they want to show the world. | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
The idea that you could just travel freely anywhere you wanted | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
and go and get your phone, I think it's difficult | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
Yeah, but it was not a problem to give us our phones. | :22:38. | :22:45. | |
I go inside the bus stop and my father is sitting | :22:46. | :23:09. | |
TRANSLATION: There is a story in the Bible, the story | :23:10. | :23:25. | |
It's about a father who gave his son his inheritance. | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
The son went into the world and squandered the inheritance, | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
and then came home in the hope that his father would let him back | :23:36. | :23:38. | |
The father stood, knowing fully that the son would come home. | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
He stood waiting for him the whole time. | :23:44. | :23:45. | |
When the son came home, the two hugged and it was exactly like that | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
Both of us cried and we held each other tight. | :23:50. | :24:24. | |
So what's your feeling towards the so-called Islamic State now? | :24:25. | :24:26. | |
I think they are a group of terrorists who do brutal things, | :24:27. | :24:37. | |
But I think that the Islamic State, only the state, is... | :24:38. | :24:48. | |
Yeah, who try to live in the Islamic way. | :24:49. | :24:56. | |
Even if the Islamic State was started by terrorists, you still | :24:57. | :24:58. | |
I think the concept is OK but what they do is not OK. | :24:59. | :25:09. | |
You obviously love your son very much, it's clear. | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
Do you worry maybe that your love for him maybe blinds you to maybe | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
the reality of what he was thinking before he went to Syria, | :25:18. | :25:20. | |
TRANSLATION: Of course something like that is possible. | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
But, as a parent, you have a feeling for whether your child | :25:27. | :25:33. | |
is telling the truth or not, and you feel in your heart, | :25:34. | :25:36. | |
Is his motive for coming home honest? | :25:37. | :25:39. | |
We are completely convinced that things are exactly | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
All I can say is that we feel it as parents. | :25:46. | :25:53. | |
So if you still have many of the opinions that you had | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
before you went to Syria, why are you not a danger now | :25:57. | :25:58. | |
I think I wasn't a danger if I was also here in Germany. | :25:59. | :26:09. | |
What I don't say is that I will kill some people, | :26:10. | :26:18. | |
Of course they have to check me, what I have done in Syria. | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
But it's impossible for them to know, isn't it? | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
It's very difficult for them to prove anything. | :26:30. | :26:31. | |
But, yeah, they have to wait for other people who came | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
back from IS to Germany, that's the only way, I think. | :26:36. | :26:42. | |
Finding proof that a crime has been committed is the major test every | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
government faces when dealing with people returning from IS. | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
How can the German authorities be sure that Samuel is telling | :26:51. | :26:52. | |
the truth and, more importantly, how can anyone know that the people | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
coming back have completely abandoned the worldviews that drove | :26:58. | :26:59. | |
We can now speak to Laura Zahra McDonald founder of Connect Futures, | :27:00. | :27:12. | |
a social enterprise that specialises in tackling extremism. | :27:13. | :27:14. | |
They featured Samuel Wendt in a series of films | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
And Rupert Sutton, research fellow at the Henry Jackson Society, | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
which is a right-wing foreign policy think-tank. | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
Samuel Wendt clearly still believes in the idea of a so-called Islamic | :27:31. | :27:39. | |
caliphate, but is that OK as long as he's given up any idea of violence? | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
Yes and that's maybe the biggest question of all what we mean by | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
de-radicalisation as opposed to disengagement? When we look at | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
examples around the world about people removing themselves from | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
groups, very often they haven't completely given up their ideas. | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
Ireland is a good example. People who supported the Republican cause | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
and used violence as a means to get to their ideals, but recounted the | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
violence, but still remain Republican. It is a similar | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
situation there. What's your view, Rupert? Well, think when peel are | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
radicalised they are combining an ideology they believe in strongly | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
with the capability or the intent to do harm and that's where people | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
become dangerous. One of the keys for people returning from Syria, | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
particularly those who have either been acquitted of offences, but | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
still maintain their views, is about ensuring that we perhaps bring them | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
back, put them closer to the more protective kind of elements that | :28:45. | :28:51. | |
they might not have had before they travelled and bring them closer to | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
their families and provide support they might need in terms of mental | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
health support, perhaps... When you say bring them closer to their | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
families. You can't, you know the official, authorities, Government, | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
local councils, can't engineer that, can they? They can't fully but | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
Government does have a role to play in that. One thing the Government | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
can do before people travel and become extreme as part of the | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
Prevent programme is seek to provide as wide a range of services as | :29:22. | :29:23. | |
possible that can provide families with the support they need to reach | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
out to somebody who might have more extreme views. So that could be | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
getting them to sit down with a mentor or getting them to sit down | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
with somebody who understands how individuals can find themselves very | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
isolated What do you think? Yeah, I was going to say so preventative | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
approach is really important and that's where we have been making our | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
films which we've crowd funded to try and get the experience of those | :29:47. | :29:49. | |
who have been there and done that out there and have the difficult | :29:50. | :29:51. | |
conversations particularly with young people, but the question of | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
support when people have returned and including those people who have | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
been convicted and are leaving prisons, I think there is 418 so far | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
who have left of which two-thirds have not accepted the support that | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
is currently provided. So the question therefore, is how do we | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
better provide a rewhat bill tative system and a programme that's more | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
holistic in first of all preventing people from the grass-roots of going | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
there in the first place? It really winds people up when we talk about | :30:25. | :30:27. | |
support for those who have been convicted. I understand where you're | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
coming from, but you can see how it works. | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
When people return, the full force of the law is brought to bear. It | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
was in Germany, Samuel was found not guilty. The difficulty of convicting | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
people who have become involved, even if they did not fight, shows we | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
need to consider how we deal with offences around proscribed | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
organisations like Islamic State. Is it enough that you can be convicted | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
of involvement with a prescribed organisation just for fighting or | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
providing support? Is there a way we can develop the laws to understand | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
that if you work as part of that organisation, even if you are not | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
carrying a gun, there is still an offence you can be convicted of? At | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
once people are acquitted, there needs to be that continuation of | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
involvement with the authorities, that can't be the end of the | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
process. We need to make sure the Government has as wide ranging and | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
consistent a policy as possible, so individuals receive the same support | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
regardless of what happened. The situation in Aleppo is described | :31:38. | :31:52. | |
as a complete meltdown of humanity by the UN. Google talk live to a | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
representative from the UN and we will hear from some more civilians | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
in the east of the city who said they are facing an absolutely | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
desperate situation. We are facing one of the most | :32:06. | :32:13. | |
difficult or the most serious or be most horrible massacre that is in | :32:14. | :32:21. | |
the history. Also, much more parochial, we will | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
talk about the BBC Music Awards, where Adele was the big winner for | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
the second year in a row. This is the best night of my life! | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
With the news, here's Annita in the BBC Newsroom. | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
The Government says it's prepared to consider banning strikes | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
on the railways as thousands of passengers in the south-east | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
of England find themselves unable to get to work. | :32:46. | :32:47. | |
Drivers from the Aslef union began a 48-hour walkout | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
on the Southern Rail network at midnight, with a further 24-hour | :32:54. | :32:56. | |
There will be no trains on any route and people are warned not to travel. | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
Passengers have already suffered months of disruption in the dispute | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
The United Nations warns it has received reports of pro-government | :33:04. | :33:12. | |
forces entering houses in east Aleppo and killing those inside, | :33:13. | :33:15. | |
The UN says it has reliable evidence of 82 civilians | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
Syrian government forces say they are close to taking | :33:19. | :33:21. | |
full control of the city after a four-year | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
Rebel fighters are now trapped in a small pocket of their former | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
stronghold in the east, along with thousands of civilians. | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
We'll have more on the situation in Aleppo shortly. | :33:33. | :33:35. | |
UK inflation rose to 1.2% in November, the highest rate | :33:36. | :33:38. | |
Increases in the prices of clothing, fuel and hotel and restaurant | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
charges were behind the slightly | :33:46. | :33:46. | |
But there were falls in air fares and food and non-alcoholic drinks. | :33:47. | :33:55. | |
Join me for BBC Newsroom Live at 11am. | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
Here are the sport headlines now with Olly Foster. | :34:00. | :34:01. | |
These are our headlines this morning. | :34:02. | :34:02. | |
Cristiano Ronaldo has won the Ballon d'Or, | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
the world's best footballer award, for a fourth time. | :34:06. | :34:08. | |
He finished ahead of five-time winner Lionel Messi. | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
He won the European Cup with Real Madrid and the European | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
Gareth Bale and Jamie Vardy came sixth and eighth. | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
Manchester City midfielder Yaya Toure has been banned | :34:20. | :34:20. | |
from driving for 18 months after pleading guilty | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
He has released a statement saying the judge accepted that he had "not | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
Toure, who is Muslim, was arrested in East London | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
Sale Sharks have signed the super league record try scorer from | :34:34. | :34:45. | |
Castleford. He had announced his retirement from the 13 man game | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
despite having two years left on his contract. His former club | :34:50. | :34:52. | |
threatening to take the matter to the High Court. | :34:53. | :34:53. | |
And, one of the great jockeys, Walter Swinburn, has | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
His most-famous victory was on Shergar, when he was | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
Nicknamed the Choirboy, he went on to become a successful | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
trainer following his retirement as a jockey. | :35:05. | :35:13. | |
That is all the sport from me, I am back on BBC News through the rest of | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
the day. The United Nations has expressed | :35:19. | :35:20. | |
alarm at reports of massacres against large numbers of people, | :35:21. | :35:22. | |
including children, in Aleppo as the Syrian army comes close | :35:23. | :35:24. | |
to defeating opposition fighters. The rebels are now trapped in a tiny | :35:25. | :35:31. | |
area under heavy bombardment, Although we have no idea exactly how | :35:32. | :35:38. | |
many. You may possibly be immune | :35:39. | :35:50. | |
to reports of the fighting there. It's been going on for a long time, | :35:51. | :35:52. | |
after all, and nothing Apart from more people | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
being killed, of course. But there are warnings this morning | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
of yet more atrocities in the east. It's feared civilians, dads, | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
brothers, mums, sisters, children, are being slaughtered | :36:02. | :36:03. | |
on the streets. Syrian state TV shows some people | :36:04. | :36:05. | |
in parts of the city celebrating after the army swept | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
through more rebel districts. Some posts on social media tell | :36:11. | :36:42. | |
a very different story. Residents have been posting | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
their wills and saying goodbye to their families because they don't | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
expect to survive. This tweet from someone | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
inside Aleppo. The White helmets are a Syrian | :36:53. | :37:37. | |
volunteer group. We haven't been able to verify | :37:38. | :38:13. | |
all of the tweets we've shown. On the programme yesterday we spoke | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
to Abdul Kafi Alhamado, an English teacher in eastern | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
Aleppo. We can now speak to the UN's | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
humanitarian adviser We heard from one resident who no | :38:25. | :38:33. | |
longer believes in the United Nations, and he is right not to, | :38:34. | :38:40. | |
isn't he? I would not blame him, because the United Nations members | :38:41. | :38:48. | |
have not been able to enable conditions for the humanitarian | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
employees of the organisations, including me as an adviser, to come | :38:53. | :39:00. | |
to the relief of the vulnerable civilians of East Aleppo, nor | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
organise their escape. We have had four major initiatives since East | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
Aleppo became besieged in July. Each of them has failed, because the | :39:11. | :39:17. | |
parties to this conflict and their sponsors have not agreed to enable | :39:18. | :39:27. | |
our access or safety and security of those to escape. That we are trying | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
again today, there are still thousands of people in desperate | :39:32. | :39:38. | |
situations that could get out, so we are trying again today, we are | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
trying every day and night for weeks. We are not giving up as long | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
as there are people in this who need our support. When you say you are | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
trying again today, can you give our audience and insight into what that | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
trying actually involves? You pick up the phone, who do you talk to? We | :39:57. | :40:07. | |
do have contact to those inside. The desperate civilians. We have even | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
more graphic reports that the tweet he referred to. Then we talk to the | :40:13. | :40:20. | |
armed groups inside, to make sure that they are willing to enable | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
escape. Then we go to the Russian diplomat and the Russian military | :40:27. | :40:34. | |
directly. We go to the Syrian Government, both the civilian and | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
the monetary authorities, and we ask for a safe corridor. A pause in the | :40:38. | :40:45. | |
fighting so we can send enough few calls to the front line point to | :40:46. | :40:52. | |
receive those who can come to that point or ask to enter into the | :40:53. | :41:01. | |
battle scene, to get them out. Again and again, day and night, we have | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
tried this, and each time it has halted because one side says, no, we | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
will condition this on something else, or, no, we cannot guarantee to | :41:12. | :41:20. | |
stop the fighting, we were attacked and our ago, so we will not halt our | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
fighting. It has been endless, this lack of humanity, and the lack of | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
willingness, ability, to enable basic humanity. You said you had had | :41:31. | :41:38. | |
more graphic reports that some of the social media messages that we | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
read out. What facts do you have about the situation in the east of | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
Aleppo? What I am concerned with are the reports that some of the | :41:49. | :41:55. | |
victorious militia, if you like, taking over areas, shooting | :41:56. | :42:06. | |
civilians. Men, but also women and children. Health workers and others. | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
These are reports that we cannot independently verify, but these are | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
eyewitness accounts that are sent to us, and it is heartbreaking to be a | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
humanitarian, have colleagues outside, brave colleagues, who have | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
the supplies and the willingness to evacuate, and are being denied | :42:29. | :42:34. | |
access. We will see whether these reports of atrocities are all or | :42:35. | :42:44. | |
some true. There will be an hour of accountability, investigations, I | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
hope. Today, our urgency is to help people out of the rubble, the | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
wounded as well as the vulnerable still inside. | :42:55. | :43:05. | |
Let's get the latest from our correspondent | :43:06. | :43:07. | |
From what we understand from Syrian state TV, the pro-government forces | :43:08. | :43:21. | |
now control around 98 sent of East Aleppo, the rebels have been pushed | :43:22. | :43:28. | |
back into an area in the south-east. Fighting is still going on, the | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
rebels still hold for neighbourhoods. It is an area of | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
around three square kilometres, according to Syrian state military. | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
Tens of thousands still trapped in that area. The fear from rebels and | :43:44. | :43:50. | |
activists in those areas is that a bombardment will inflict further | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
casualties and more loss of life, because they are in such a condensed | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
area at the moment. Even while there is and joy in the West, rumours of | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
the war coming to an end, it has not finished just yet. | :44:09. | :44:19. | |
The Government may consider banning strikes on the railways. Phil is in. | :44:20. | :44:30. | |
Where are we? Two things are going on. The Government say there is | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
nothing they can do about the current dispute at Southern Rail, I | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
had a chat with Chris Grayling, he is adamant he cannot sort it out | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
because he does not have the legal powers to resolve it. It might seem | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
extraordinary, we have 300,000 people who cannot get into work, | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
2000 services cancelled, a rail minister who resigned because of the | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
gift buckle, and yet the Secretary of State says there is the Vicky can | :44:57. | :45:02. | |
do, but he says once the dispute is over he will look at the possibility | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
of new strike laws to make sure this cannot happen again. He is not | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
specific about what he is talking about, it could be a ban on strikes | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
on the railways, which would be a nuclear option, no other European | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
country does that, it would run into all sorts of human rights | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
legislation, so it would be extraordinarily difficult to do, but | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
he says he is prepared to look at tougher strike laws. This is what he | :45:31. | :45:31. | |
said this morning. Eople from the grass-roots of going | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
there in the first place? It really winds people up when we talk about | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
support for those who have been convicted. I understand where you're | :45:41. | :45:42. | |
coming from, but you can see how it works. | :45:43. | :45:44. | |
Raez We are going to have to look at all options when the strike is over, | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
but right now the important thing is to get the trains running again and | :45:48. | :45:50. | |
to get people back to work and to get people back travelling again. | :45:51. | :45:53. | |
The Government only tightened up the law, what about a year or so ago? So | :45:54. | :46:00. | |
whether they could actually do it is another thing altogether. You sense | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
that pretty much commuters are just stuck in the middle here between | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
unions, pretty much determined to stand their ground and the company | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
also prepared to stand their ground and a Secretary of State who is | :46:15. | :46:17. | |
adamant that at the moment there is nothing he can do. | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
That was Norman Smith at Westminster. | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
Andy McDonald is the Labour Shadow Transport Minister. | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
Heather Barrie is a small business owner. | :46:31. | :46:31. | |
Ann Matthews is small business owner. | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
Ann tell us about your business. I have got a small catering vehicle. | :46:36. | :46:44. | |
We sell coffee and porridge and flapjacks to commuters at Brighton | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
train station. How is business going? Not great at all. There is a | :46:48. | :46:54. | |
massive drop, we've noticed over the past eight or ninety months in | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
general foot fall really. Are you going to have to shut up shop? Yeah, | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
that's correct. We've taken the decision to actually finish trading | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
on 23rd December. Wow. How do you feel about that? It is not great. We | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
have been running this for the last two-and-a-half years. It was new. It | :47:15. | :47:23. | |
was exciting. It was something really good to do at that point, but | :47:24. | :47:30. | |
it is not working now. Would you mind Ann just showing us around? Can | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
you move the camera so we can see your mobile tea shop. We have a | :47:36. | :47:43. | |
coffee machine in this little corner here. Lovely cabinet here full of | :47:44. | :47:57. | |
flapjacks. More flapjacks up here. Thank you. Thank you, Ann. Let me | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
bring in Heather then, how much have you lost because of the strikes? It | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
will be about ?3,000 in turnover. That's just gone. I can't make it | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
back once the days have gone, you can't get them back. What is your | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
business? I run a coffee bar similar to Ann's, I am at arrunnedle train | :48:19. | :48:22. | |
station. I have noticed on the days when it is just the RMT out, there | :48:23. | :48:26. | |
are still obviously, there is still commuters and I have to look after | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
them because they have had torrid journeys the day before, but then on | :48:31. | :48:34. | |
the days with ASLEF going out, there is no trains, I have no business and | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
there is nobody there today at all. So I have no income. | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
We were hoping to talk to the General secretary of ASLEF, Mike | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
Whelan, he was due to be here, but he hasn't been able to join us. | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
Let's talk to Andy McDonald who is Labour's transport spokesman. Do you | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
condemn the strikes, Mr McDonald? This is dreadful the impact this is | :49:01. | :49:03. | |
having on small businesses and they have lost jobs as a result. I | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
reserve my condemnation for a Secretary of State who seems to want | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
to absent himself from this situation. This is a complete | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
failure of industrial relations and what a Secretary of State should be | :49:16. | :49:18. | |
doing is getting involved and resolving this and I urge him to | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
call the parties in, to start talks now without any preconditions and | :49:25. | :49:27. | |
let's get this resolved. It is resolvable and the people who have | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
been suffering for all of these weeks and months deserve that | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
attention by the Secretary of State. I hear your condemnation of the | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
Government. Do you condemn strike action? Well, Victoria, the courts | :49:39. | :49:44. | |
have decided that this is a legitimate dispute. The substance of | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
it isn't about money or terms and conditions, it is about passenger | :49:49. | :49:51. | |
safety and for me to condemn a strike that's focussed on that is to | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
effectively say that it is perfectly OK to run these sorts of risks and | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
they are significant and serious risks and I will never get myself | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
into a situation where I'm going to be prepared to compromise on | :50:05. | :50:07. | |
people's safety, that's what this is about. Well, let's talk ton and | :50:08. | :50:12. | |
Heather. Is it about passenger safety? I have to say I see both | :50:13. | :50:19. | |
sides of the argument, but I think they have such, I am a train | :50:20. | :50:22. | |
traveller as well. I want somebody on the train. So I think they have | :50:23. | :50:25. | |
got a legitimate argument. There will be someone on the train. There | :50:26. | :50:28. | |
will be the driver and another member of staff. Which I totally | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
understand. There won't be a guard/conductor? It seems it is | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
petty that it has come down to who opens the doors, but Southern have | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
lots of curved platformses. It feels like these two bull elephants are | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
going at each other and it is everybody, I don't know anybody who | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
hasn't been affected, it is businesses, mums and students, | :50:53. | :50:54. | |
everybody has been affected by this and there doesn't seem to be an end. | :50:55. | :50:57. | |
There is no political will to do anything. | :50:58. | :51:03. | |
Mr McDonald, to come back to you for a moment, Chris Grayling was saying | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
this morning that he wrote last night after the court action last | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
night, he wrote last night to the unions in order to get back around | :51:11. | :51:14. | |
the table and still hasn't had a response? It is with conditions. | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
What I'm saying is different. I'm saying have the talks without any | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
preconditions. That's how you get discussions and negotiations going. | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
I don't know which way he wants to play this, because on the one hand | :51:27. | :51:30. | |
he says he can't do anything and yet he is making this proposal. If he is | :51:31. | :51:35. | |
making the proposal, take the conditions off it and gets the talks | :51:36. | :51:40. | |
going today. The RMT put forward a proposal that would have accepted | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
the transmission to on board supervisors, but retaining the same | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
safety critical competencies whilst new protocols are established in | :51:51. | :51:53. | |
conjunction with the drivers. That would bring this dispute to an end | :51:54. | :52:00. | |
immediately and I urge him to take that opportunity to take that offer | :52:01. | :52:04. | |
and get on with this rather than threatening people with bans on | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
strikes. I mean, where on earth are we going with that? You don't like | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
that idea then? That's a horrendous idea to suggest that people would | :52:14. | :52:20. | |
not have the right to progress their grievances and concerns. This is | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
about passenger safety at the end of the day. We know for a fact that | :52:24. | :52:31. | |
there are significant dangers in asking drivers to supervise the... | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
Well do we know for a fact? A third of the rail network this is exactly | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
what happens? Horses for courses when you have got the circumstances | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
that permit driver-only operation, but when you have a known risk and | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
when the rail safety standards board say whilst there is nothing wrong in | :52:50. | :52:55. | |
the mechanism DOO makes an accident more likely to happen and if it does | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
happen, it will be severe. Now, we have seen people dragged down | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
platforms and sustaining life changing injuries. This is not | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
something we can just ignore and hope will go away. If we ban people | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
bringing this to our attention in the way the unions are, what are we | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
going to do? Allow the whole thing to let rip? We are having a | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
conversation about injuries and perhaps even worse. So let's avoid | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
that. Let's get this sorted out and let's listen to people's proper and | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
legitimate concerns about safety. Go ahead Ann. At Brighton train station | :53:29. | :53:35. | |
there are two different services. One has conductors at the moment, | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
guards and the other one doesn't. They're driver honl operated, what's | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
the difference? They're both leaving the same train station and they have | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
had the same number of commuters and they are both going to London. Why | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
do they operate differently? What's the difference? I don't know | :53:52. | :53:57. | |
the answer to that, Ann, do you Mr McDonald? I don't know about those | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
specific circumstances, but when you have got 12 carriages and curved | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
platforms it is putting responsibility on the driver to view | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
12 and perhaps even more screens that are no bigger than a mobile | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
phone and to make a decision about the safe dispatch of the train and | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
we see the scenes of thousands of people crowding upon these platforms | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
and to put that responsibility upon a driver to say off you g the train | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
can safely dispatch, is asking for trouble. I think we have got to take | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
proper note of their concerns. Thank you very much. | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
Thank you very much, Ann. Thank you for coming on the programme. I wish | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
you all the best, I really do. Heather, thank you for coming into | :54:41. | :54:43. | |
the studio. Good luck with your business. Thank you so much. | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
Adele has dominated the BBC Music Awards for a second year | :54:49. | :54:51. | |
in a row without ever making an appearance. | :54:52. | :54:53. | |
She picked up two of the main prizes - Song of the Year, | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
for Hello, and Album of the Year, for 25. | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
But Robbie Wlliams, John Legend and the 1975 were plus a rather | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
strange Ricky Wilson from Kaiser Chiefs posing | :55:05. | :55:06. | |
A warning, there is flash photography coming up. | :55:07. | :55:15. | |
So the winner of the BBC Radio 2 Album of the Year goes to... | :55:16. | :55:37. | |
We just got told about winning this beautiful BBC | :55:38. | :55:49. | |
We're about to go on stage in Australia. | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
# It goes a little something like this. | :55:54. | :56:14. | |
Bieber at the Beeb, Olly Murs, Tom Odell, Bastille's day. | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
This is the best moment of my whole life. | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
She can't be here but she sent me instead to accept | :56:25. | :56:27. | |
Our music reporter, Mark Savage was there last | :56:28. | :56:44. | |
Does it matter if people who win these awards aren't there? Three | :56:45. | :56:58. | |
awards went to two that weren't there. They are not giving the | :56:59. | :57:01. | |
awards to the people who have turned up which is happens at a lot of | :57:02. | :57:04. | |
these ceremonies. The BBC's argument is we gave it to the right people | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
and it is a shame they couldn't make it, but Adele is on holiday, she is | :57:08. | :57:13. | |
on a break from her World Tour and Coldplay are in Australia play to go | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
millions of people. Who else picked up gongs and what was Ricky Wilson | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
playing at? Ricky Wilson was stood next to me on the red carpet asking | :57:22. | :57:28. | |
strange questions! Did you know it was him? I called over the PA to | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
say, "I think you need to be wary of this guy." They were all in on T | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
some of the questions he was asking, I was thinking, "I wouldn't get away | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
with this." Like what? Well, he was asking people what they had for | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
dinner and whether they were going to burp it up on stage! The 1975 won | :57:49. | :58:03. | |
the Best Live performance of the year. It sounds like an all right | :58:04. | :58:09. | |
night. It was a good night out. I only had three hours sleep! I'm | :58:10. | :58:11. | |
bleary. He gets up at 4. .15am. On the programme tomorrow, | :58:12. | :58:18. | |
British actor Douglas Booth and we meet the women desperate | :58:19. | :58:20. | |
to find their sugar daddy. | :58:21. | :58:24. |