12/09/2014 BBC Newsline

Thank you very much. That's it. Goodbye

yesterday. This is today, and tomorrow will be tomorrow.

Ian Paisley - who dominated politics for 50 years - died today.

On BBC Newsline we look at a life of a man who was both colourful

We'll have reaction from friends and foes alike here, in London and in

Dublin and we'll be analysing his huge impact on Northern Ireland.

Ian Paisley - described today as a colossus, a one-off,

He travelled on a political journey that took him from protestor to

statesman, from vowing to smash Sinn Fein to sharing power with them

and befriending the former IRA commander Martin McGuinness.

Our political reporter Stephen Walker looks back

We say never! Never! Never! Never in the history of Northern Ireland has

one man stirred such strong feelings. Loved by some, lowest by

others, everyone had an opinion on Ian Paisley. -- loathed by others.

For decades he became known as Doctor know as he resisted all

efforts to share power with nationalists or Republicans. Over

time he changed. It was a slow conversion, from throwing snowballs

at a visiting to shock in the 60s to a warm embrace with Bertie Ahern in

Antrim. This was not the biggest turnaround in the latter years of

the Paisley career. These were the pictures many thought they would

never see. The leader of hardline unionism sitting at storm on with

the leader of republicanism. The DUP and Sinn Fein together in a

power-sharing executive. But it was a move which unsettled the

grassroots and led to the resignation of Ian Paisley as leader

of the church he founded, the free Presbyterians. His easy relationship

with the Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness, they became known

as the Chuckle Brothers, was a further source of unease within the

party. By 2008 it was time to go. He stood down as DUP leader and First

Minister. At the time he said he was going voluntarily but in a BBC

interview in January 2014, he claimed he was pushed. Nigel Dodds

said to me, we want you to be gone. By Friday. I more or less smirked

and Peter said, no, no, he needs to stay in for another couple of

months. I sort of laughed. One wanted two months and the other, I

don't know what he wanted. Ian Paisley's interview showed how

strange relations had become with the party he helped found, and in

particular highlighted the tensions that existed with Peter Robinson,

who succeeded him as party leader and First Minister. There was a

piece that was prepared to go forward to the destruction of the

party. His claims were rejected by former party colleagues who said Ian

Paisley's collection of events was wrong. Ian Richard Kyle Paisley was

born in 1926. His father was a Baptist minister, his mother was a

preacher. He grew up in Ballymena, a town which was to become his

political power base. At long before the birth of Paisley the politician,

there was Paisley the preacher. He delivered his first sermon at a

mission hall in County Tyrone at the age of 16. It was the 1960s when

politics came to the fore. Nationalism and republicanism were

the enemy and Ian Paisley was ready for battle. He believed the Dublin

government could not be trusted, and when the then Taoiseach was

invited, Doctor Paisley was outraged. He led 1000 loyalists to

storm on, it was proof if proof were needed that he was now a religious

and political leader. We declare our intention from this platform that we

will organise massive demonstrations continually. The arrival of another

tea shock, Jack Lynch, provoked a snowball protest. In 1970 he stood

as a Protestant unionist and he was elected to the Stormont parliament.

It was the start of a remarkable career at the polls. Ian Richard

Kyle Paisley, 7981. Soon he was elected to Westminster, taking the

North Antrim seat. Then he formed the Democratic Unionist Party and

began a long battle with the Ulster Unionists for the trust of the

unionist people. Politics would never be quite the same again. He

opposed the formation of a power-sharing executive at Stormont

in 1973. He was abroad during the early stages of the loyalist workers

strike but was quickly involved on his return. In the first European

election in 1979, he topped the poll. That was to become a habit,

allowing him to claim to be the most popular politician in Northern

Ireland. To his enemies, he was a hate figure, a bigot and a dangerous

presence. They pointed to his involvement with Ulster resistance.

The signing of the Anglo-Irish agreement in 1985 saw him joining

forces with the then Ulster Unionist leader. They filled Belfast city

centre with a protest rally. Return for sanctuary to the Irish Republic,

and yet Mrs Thatcher tells us that that Republic must have some say in

our province. We say never! Never! Never! Never. Together, the two

leaders adopted a policy of noncooperation with the government

and resigned their Westminster seats, forcing by-elections which

they later contested and won, but ultimately the relationship turns

sour. The piece process gave fresh impetus to Ian Paisley, he opposed

it from the beginning. He agreed to go to the multiparty talks at

Stormont but when Sinn Fein were allowed in the following year, the

DUP leader walked out. He came back on the night before Good Friday in

1998 to protest. This subsequent agreement started a battle for the

soul of unionism. In the vote for the assembly elections in November

2003, the DUP finally overtook the Ulster Unionists. As MP, MEP and

assembly member, Ian Paisley had been at the forefront of politics

for over 30 years. He decided not to stand again for Europe in 2004, but

his message remains the same. Never again are we going to have

terrorists in the government of Ulster. As a religious leader, his

defence of Protestant principles was undiminished. He protested at the

presents, for the first time ever, of the Catholic primate at the

Presbyterians General Assembly. Ian Paisley and his wife, Eileen, had

five children. She was never far from his side. Speaking in a BBC

documentary in January 2014, he talked about his life. I have no

major regrets. I am not infallible, I never claimed to be the Pope, I

just was just Ian Paisley, an Ulster man. And I look at, I have regrets,

I have regrets that were not yet out -- we are not yet out of the

difficulties that we have been in. But I have also rejoiced in my heart

that I kept the faith. Ian Paisley was big in stature and big invoice.

He was hated and admired in equal measure. Whilst people will differ

on his contribution, all will agree that over many decades as a preacher

and a politician, he left his mark on Northern Ireland.

This is a specially extended BBC Newsline marking the death of Ian

Paisley this morning at the age of 88. We will hear from across the

article divide and the general public.

The First Minister and DUP leader Peter Robinson joined me earlier.

Ian was a towering figure in politics. A lot of the reporting

will be about his contribution in Northern Ireland but he was of an

international level. His face was known right across the globe. His

voice was certainly known across the globe as well. He made an enormous

contribution to Northern Ireland. I think that at this time, we really

do need to remember, there is a family who have always been very

close. I think in politics very often, when politicians are under

fire, you get a very tight-knit family around them. There will be

people who will need to be consoled, who will be deeply, in a sense, of

-- deeply a sense of loss about their husband, father and

grandfather. In many ways that is where our official thoughts need to

be -- initial thoughts need to be in indicating not just a tribute to Ian

for his life but also remembering his family at this very important

time in their lives. He was a politician for about 50 years, you

journeyed with him on part of that 50 years. What did you left from you

as apolitical leader? -- learn from him as a political leader? He was

quite unique and created a family of a party which is quite unique. The

Democratic Unionist Party, politicians who often wonder why the

press don't understand them. Pressel at that other political parties and

the way they act and behave -- the press look at other better go

parties. Ian created a very different party and he had an

ability to communicate, to influence and inspire, the ability to pick

people up when they were down on issues. The ability to come into a

room, all eyes turning to him, waiting to hear what his take would

be on an issue. And with a sense of humour that I think managed to get

him over many of the difficult sets of circumstances that he was placed

in, where even those who would be most opposed to it, he could still

have had a crack with them and enjoyed their company. He has been

described as a colossus by friends and foes alike. You had political

differences with him, were you able to heal those wounds before he died?

The very last occasion I was with Ian and Eileen was when both Martin

McGuinness and I were receiving, along with Ian, the international

Ellis Island award, an award that is given for the contribution we made

here in Northern Ireland. We had a very happy evening with his family

and with the families of Martin and myself and our friends. It will be

that kind of occasion that I think I will remember more than anything

else. Ian was a peculiar politician in the sense that he didn't behave

and react in a way that many others did. He could take any of the

attacks on the chin, it just washed off him. He was able to laugh at

those who would poke fun at him. But he was still able to give a sense of

direction and certainty. It was a very unstable society in Northern

Ireland and people were looking out for somebody who knew what direction

to go in, who had some certainty about the way to go forward.

Ian Paisley sparked emotions of love and hate.

His political dominance and influence has been a constant

in the life of Northern Ireland for more than 50 years.

Now with his passing BBC Newsline's Mark Simpson has been

asking members of the general public how they will remember him.

News of his death appeared on the big screen at Belfast City Hall at

lunch time. 30 years ago this was the scene of Ian Paisley's most

famous speech. Never, never, never! People reflected on his political

career. He had a long life, 88, was he? You're not going to live much

longer than that. He has good and bad points, I suppose. You always

pick out the bad points of people. If you look at the whole picture, we

wouldn't be here, having a peaceful discussion, if it hadn't been for

the Reverend Ian Paisley. He did so much for the people here. He may

have been controversial and so on, but I think basically, it was a good

man. Quite a shock, actually. I've spent he will go down in the history

books as well, won't he? What is, who knows? He was good at the end.

Repented. In the Ardoyne area of north Belfast, people gave their

views. Paisley above anybody was a man that caused the trouble -- next

Mac He was someone's husband, someone's

father. It is sad when someone dies. Although he was MP for North Antrim

for 40 years, he spent much of his career living in east Belfast, close

to his church, Stormont and his Unionist heartland. How is he

remembered here? Just as Mr Paisley, the Big Man said no. I

remember he was a legend for the Belfast community committee will

never be forgotten. All these people love him. I don't thought that I

don't love him for one second. The man was a maniac. -- I don't. He

will never be forgotten. Never, never, never! It will be sad to lose

him. No matter what happened in the end, he was great for the people and

will be a sad loss. In death as in life, opinions are divided on Ian

Paisley but most people agree that politics here will never quite be

the same. Here at Stormont we will have

reaction to Doctor Paisley's death throughout the programme. Joining me

is a close personal friend, the retired Free Presbyterian minister

the Reverend David McIlveen. Thank you for joining us. You have joined

the family today. Yes, I have shared a little of the family's ree. It is

a close family. They have been a mother and father to many of us. It

is our turn to be helped and strength to the family. A difficult

day for his widow, who was such an enormous part of his life and an

enormous influence on his life. Mrs Paisley was a mother. She was a

great support to Doctor Paisley. Everything he did was encouraged and

strengthened by her. She really has a tremendous testimony, her and her

family, this particular time. They do want to keep private, despite him

being such a major public figure. It is a family decision and we

understand that. It is something they decided themselves and we

respect that. When it comes to his role as a preacher, it was certainly

in his blood. Undoubtedly it was. Whenever he preached so often about

the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and encourage people to be

saved by God's grace so they could be repaired for eternity, the

comfort and strength he gave to many in their time of sorrow is still

very much a legacy to family and friends. We recognise that Doctor

Paisley was a man who has left us a tremendous example. He was a man of

great compassion. He learned what it was too weep with them that wet, to

rejoice with them that rejoiced. He was a great inspiration to all who

were privileged to know him. When did you last speak to him? I was

with him last evening and with the family. It was a special time. We

did not know it was the last time we would be together. Nonetheless,

there was the same strength within the family of faith, of trust, of

believing that when the time came in God's providence, that their loved

one would be with Christ. Doctor Paisley would have preached that

text, to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. Today

is a mixture of sorrow and joy. Sorrow because we have lost a dear

friend, a father figure, an inspiration to all of us in the

church ministry, but also in that expression of joy that he has seen

the Saviour whom he loved and served. Was he very hurt by high

relations were soured at the end when he left the church? It was very

difficult to engage into his thinking. All of us are open to

hurt. It doesn't matter how strong the character, the quality of

leadership would be, we are all prone to being injured and bruised.

In Doctor Paisley's case, that was evident in the documentaries that

came across. That should have made us more sensitive to his needs and

that of Mrs Paisley and for that reason, I felt and still do feel

that both deserve the highest respect. The Free Presbyterian

church would not be known if it was not known for the Ministry of Doctor

Paisley. Who would have known of the Free Presbyterian Church in

Australia or America if it had not been for his ministry? We owe him a

tremendous debt of gratitude. He will be greatly missed. We thank God

for the privilege we have had of living in the same generation of

him. What do you think led to the political conversion? I am not

involved in the political scene, so I am not a judge on that matter, but

I think in comparative terms, most of us would recognise that we live

in a different Northern Ireland to what we were brought up in. In that

sense, if that is a political conversion, I think many of us,

perhaps all of us, have reaped the benefit of it. Doctor Paisley's

leadership, both in church and in state, has been invaluable. It was

important for some of us to make the distinction between his leadership

role in politics and his leadership role in the church. To me, he was

the moderator of the Free Presbyterian Church, the Finder of

it. Many people throughout Northern Ireland were converted through his

ministry. That is the sort of conversion I personally feel is to

be emphasised, the conversion of hundreds of people to the knowledge

of Christ. What will be your overriding memory of him in the

weeks and months ahead? One of great compassion. Just one illustration

minus one day we were driving through Moscow in the back of a taxi

and he said, do not speak to me for half an hour. -- one illustration,

one day we were. He brought out the names of other ministers,

missionaries and students, and he prayed for everyone. Thank you, and

condolences to you and the rest of the family. Back to the studio. We

will be back at Stormont later in the programme.

The Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness of Sinn Fein is

You said today in your message of condolence that Ian Paisley was a

friend and that you had lost a friend. It is a relationship that

baffles many people. What does his loss mean to you? We will always be

cast in history as two people from clearly very diverging pasts who had

the ability to overcome old and the Tees and go into government

together. So that year that he was in the office of First and Deputy

First Minister with myself was a very unique experience for me.

Whenever you sat in a room as I did do, in the initial days with Ian

Paisley he said, Martin, we can rule ourselves, we do not need these

people coming over from England to tell us what to do. That was common

ground we could both stand on. Over the course of that year he treated

me with nothing other than respect. Not only did we develop positive

working relationships, but we also developed a friendship which has

continued to this very day. I say that as someone who had an intense

dislike for Ian Paisley for many decades, as he had for me. It was --

I was 18 or 19 when he came into Derry with an entourage and it was a

difficult time at the beginning of the Troubles. People were very pure

full -- fearful of the power of Ian Paisley. I could never have imagined

at the age of 19 that many years later I would be sexting involvement

with him. But it came to pass the stop -- I would be sitting in

government with him. I am told he visited his home in recent days or

weeks. It has been a couple of months since I have been at his

home. He wanted to see me and I went over and met with him and stayed for

two hours with him himself and Eileen, just the three of us. We

drank coffee and talked about things. We talked about his plans

for his library. We talked about many things. It was obvious to me

that he was considerably weaker from the previous time I had seen him. We

have always kept in touch since he left the office of First and Deputy

First Minister. I have a great regard for his wife, Eileen, who

played a powerful role at the time he took the decision to come into

government. My thoughts are with the Paisley family and particularly with

Eileen at what is a heartbreaking time for her. Ian Paisley will be

remembered by many people in the nationalists and republican families

as someone to hate a, -- summer to hit, a sectarian man. How do you

square that with a man who became your friend? It is true, but I am

honest to say that in the Unionist family people have their own

perceptions of people like myself. The big challenge in any peace

process, and here we are in the 20th year of the are racist nation, is to

try to forge agreements which end conflict, which bring the war to an

end, and which provide the opportunity for politicians to move

on and provide a better life based on equality for all citizens. The

fact that he and I were effectively joint first manner -- First

Ministers of Northern Ireland and linked to a power-sharing Executive,

I think that does represent a remarkable transformation in the

political lives of the people who live here. At the same time,

historic and -- historians will make their own judgements. People have

been critical of Ian Paisley while at the same time being magnanimous

of the Rubicon decision he made, Crossing the Rubicon to be in

decision with Sinn Fein. It was an incredible development. Is there one

thing you can pen point to say, that was Ian Paisley? It was whenever a

few days after we went into government he said to me, we should

tell the NIO and British Ian -- Peter Hain to get out of Stormont

Castle. I laughed, but we asked our advisers to go away. A few minutes

later, he and I both signed a letter and sent it off to Peter Hain.

Within days the NIO and Peter Hain were gone out of the castle. It was

handed over to us. We have a great laugh whenever we heard that they

had taken everything, including the light bulbs. My big regret is that

when he came into government with me he was not 25 or 30 years younger.

Now back to Stormont. With me now, Mike Nesbitt and

Alasdair McDonnell. What is his legacy in terms of unionism, do you

think? That is something we will continue to breed in coming days,

months and years. My primary concern today is to express condolences on

behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party to the family. Politically, nothing

changes. The legacy is there and people will make of it what they

want to. The big change is that Baroness Paisley was married to Ian

Paisley for longer than I have been alive, so I cannot imagine the

challenges she faces today. I know her faith will be very strong. It is

the family for the focus should be, and to make sure that while

journalism does what it has to do, but they leave the space and the

respect for the Paisley family to grieve. What about your relationship

with him? Politically I came on the scene as he was exiting. It was more

as a journalist, doing your job. I have to say, if you had not been at

managed by Ian Paisley, you did not feel as if he were a proper

journalist. -- at Monash. Sometimes I felt like I was a proper, proper,

proper journalist, because he could really have a go. He was also a

human being. When he came into the studio he would ask after my family.

When he went live, he went for it. He was a very challenging customer

to interview. When it was over he was a human being again. One time my

producer thought I had gone too far. He ran out after Ian Paisley.

Afterwards I said, was he upset? He said, no, his shoulders were moving

up and down. I said, are you OK. He said, I called him a fool, I

shouldn't have done that, and then the shoulders were jiggling away

again. He enjoyed himself when he was in the broadcast world. Alasdair

McDonnell, we have heard about the people who loved him but also those

who did not like him. He was a divisive figure. We should deal with

that later. I would want to basically express my condolences,

and I have done so a number of times today already. The Paisley family

are grieving tonight. They have lost a husband, a father, a grandfather

and honestly, we all feel pain and grief and I think our prayers and

thoughts should be with them. History will judge itself. Sadly,

Ian Paisley was divisive between unionism and nationalism and within

unionism. He charted a course for himself and he will, in time, his

role in the Troubles will perhaps define him. I think a lot of people

mellowed in their views because of the work you did in recent times as

he got older to bring about devolution here again in 2007. Were

you personally surprised by the conversion? Yes, I was. But I knew

him both as the roaring politician on the one hand, and the man who was

aggressive and domineering politically, but on the other hand,

I had a good personal relationship with him and I had many

conversations with him. I would endorse what Mike has said, that he

was wary personable. He was central to the journey of unionism and split

it in the end. He had his own party and his own church, and he had his

own Orange order. He was a man who was very focused and determined. I

am just thinking to myself tonight that we are still on that political

journey. We haven't got to where we want to go. Here we have lost

another big player, a big figure over the last number of years. I

suppose if we should do anything politically tonight, it is readable

our efforts to get to the end of that journey as quickly as we can.

-- redouble our efforts. We will be back later in the programme.

We will be on air until 7:30pm this evening to mark the death of Ian

Paisley, Lord Bannside, the founder of the DUP and former First

Minister, who passed away this morning at the age of 88. We will go

to Ian Paisley's political heartland, Ballymena, shortly.

First, Eamon McAllister is in an Londonderry studio. -- even McCann.

How do you describe his political journey from protester to statesman?

I am not sure that people like myself ever said Ian Paisley is the

enemy. We were aware of his relentless hostility towards the

civil rights movement and any element within the civil rights

movement which tried to open up to the Protestant people and disk

related against Protestant working-class people. --

discriminated against. I remember him saying, they all Republicans, no

matter what they say. There is no answer to that. He corralled in his

rhetoric and also in the physical way he operated, he corralled people

into two separate camps and gave Protestant people do understand that

their entire history, identity, sense of themselves was under threat

from the idea of equal citizenship. You can say that Ian Paisley changed

in later years and took a more benign attitude to life and politics

in the North, really we are still living with the legacy of those

years. And the failure to breakthrough sectarianism at that

time. I still believe it would have been possible. Ian Paisley is one of

the people who made it impossible and that is a big part, I think the

main part of the legacy he leaves. Did you have personal encounters

with him? I had an early personal encounter when I was still at

secondary school. I remember he was touring the North in the company of

a Spanish priest, whose role it was to reveal the innermost secrets, the

shameful secrets of... The scarlet woman on the banks of the Tiber, as

used to be said. It was in Derry Guildhall. My friend and I walked

onto the platform and challenged. It was not a Derry thing to do, really.

At that time, Doctor Paisley seemed to be speaking to rather

respectable, elderly, many of them, sort of Protestant people. I

remember having an exchange with him, I would have been 16 or 17, I

was at college at the time for the afterwards I had a few encounters

during the civil rights campaign, encounters which were not friendly

or unfriendly, but would have been across barricades, literally. Thank

you. The place that became Ian Paisley's

political heartland is Ballymena. He was first elected MP for North

Antrim in 1970 and was succeeded Mervyn Jess is there for

BBC Newsline. Mervyn, what have people

in the town been saying? Over my shoulder you can see the

distinctive clocktower of the Ballymena town hall. It is not as

distinctive as the brand of politics which Ian Paisley practised in

this, his political heartland. I was out and about on the streets today,

speaking to people about the news of his death. Not everybody wanted to

speak to me about that. Some people said they had nothing to say, fought

ever reason. Those who did speak were positive in their view of his

legacy -- for whatever reason. It is very sad, my mum was saying it is

very sad, he will be missed in the town. We will miss him for ever, he

is on the television a lot, shouting a lot, getting things done. He is a

good man, I glad he did what he did, for the peace of the country. That

is what he will be remembered for, definitely. He didn't like civil, he

has family of his own and he looked after them, you wanted everybody

else to look after their family. The local paper is the Ballymena

Guardian and it has been covering stories about Ian Paisley over the

past 40 yes plus, in fact for most of his life. I went to speak to its

editor, Jim Flanagan. He is a legendary politician in this area.

He took his title Lord ban side from the area he dominated for 40 years.

He had no equal is commonly top the poll in 19 successive elections. He

was a charismatic politician and basically, Hugh was a spellbinding

orator -- he was. He held a captive audience, even with his detractors,

there is a fondness for the fact that in later years he stepped up to

the plate. A lot of people said there would not have been an

assembly in 2007 without him. While people had their differences with

him, they recognise that in later years he was into the business of

reconciliation and making the Contra misers necessary -- compromises.

This was a man who seem to live on sectarian hatred for such a long

time in his life. Then towards the end, subscribe to the Good Friday

Agreement, became Northern Ireland's first First Minister, and

that whole period with Martin McGuinness, the Chuckle Brothers

says, if you like. That gave a more endearing side to the man -- Chuckle

Brothers says. Unfortunately I'm not sure how he will be remembered but I

think he will be amended more for the early part of his career. A view

from across the board. Joining me in Ballymena is a member of the

Council, one of the longest serving members of the council, Sam Hanna.

Give me your view on the man behind that political mask. What was he

like as a person? Doctor Paisley had a great personality. I have known

him over 60 years as a politician and a personal friend. We were

really close together. He was a man that worked tirelessly, never seemed

to stop, seemed to be a man of iron and was able to go on day and night.

I wanted to speak to Doctor Paisley, the best time to get him was at

1:00am, so it was. He was always there. It didn't matter what the

problem was, he was always keen to help. Thank you very much. Other

people have told me he was a politician who broke not just one

mould, but many moles. -- many moulds. Ballymena will not be the

same with him gone. I'm joined now by our

political editor, Mark Devenport. You had lots of dealings with him.

He was a man of big contrast, you did not know what you are going to

face, going to a news conference all going to interview him. I was on the

receiving end of quite a few high rates if he did not like what I

wrote. He could beat a man with a quick sense of humour -- futile

he said, who are you, Rip Van Winkle, he thought I had been going

to sleep on the job. He was not short on picking you up on your

personal appearance, he always commented on my nose with my

spectacles. There was the other side to him, you could be in a big rally

and he could be making a speech and he would be talking about the evils

of the media and didn't seem to be at all concerned if everybody

started looking at you. There was that complexity in his character and

that came into his political career as well, which was a career of

contrasts. Enigma has been a word used a lot today, what do you think

was the key to his conversion? Longevity. He was in the business a

long time and who knows, if he hadn't lasted so long, he was 88 by

the time he died, maybe he would not have got to that last extraordinary

chapter in his career. For decades he was the no man, the protest

politician. Then seven years ago he did the deal which would have been

unthinkable. Why? Obviously he believed his opponents, Sinn Fein,

the IRA, had changed. He thought he had negotiated a good deal in terms

of IRA disarmament and Sinn Fein backing the police. Also I think it

was important he had vanquished his Unionist rivals and he was the top

man. He wanted to be the one who called the shots politically, and

made the deal. Whilst he was sort of second to the Ulster Unionists, I

think he never really wanted a deal on somebody else's terms. Things are

shaking up at Stormont. Do you think if he had been younger and still

around, things would be different? You would have to say the period

when he was the First Minister was more of a positive period in terms

of imagery, the symbolism, the famous Chuckle Brothers era. At the

same time he was never really a man for the details, he was starting to

lose track of the details by the time he stepped down from the DUP

leadership and the First Minister's office. We are at a stage where the

devil is in the details, these budgetary wrangles and welfare

reform. I don't think he was the man to see us through that but he would

have certainly brought a different style to the proceedings from what

we see now with Peter Robinson, a rather cooler, more businesslike

successor. Thank you very much. The former leader's relationship

with the Republic's government was tempestuous but that changed when he

went into power with Sinn Fein in 2007. The former Taoiseach has been

speaking to our Dublin correspondent. It is a sad day. Ian

is somebody I have grown to be very friendly with and over the last

probably ten, 12, 14 years, we have had a lot of dealings. I have come

to greatly admire him. I would have had the problems with him in the

early years, as I have said many times. We were very different

political backgrounds and philosophies, ideologies. I had zero

time frame in those days. He moved, I moved -- zero time for him. He

became a very important figure in the peace process. The deficiency of

the Good Friday Agreement was we had not let everybody in and I knew we

had to come back and try that. He played an important part in that.

Most people will look at his career, he was against everything,

the no surrender, the tough opposition he took two things. Also

we have to take into account where he left things and he played his

part in the last decade or so in helping to make Northern Ireland

better place. From my point of view, having had no great admiration

for him in the early years, Ghazi took a different view and philosophy

to what I believe, -- because he took a different view, he then

became a person you could trust, he stuck to his word. To his credit, he

was getting older, his health was not as good but he was prepared to

take the moves both of the could have said, not for me, someone else

can do that. He showed leadership and political acumen and I found

him, in the negotiations I was engaged with him, to be a person you

could do business with. Once he was convinced and he believed it, he

went with it. John Cushnahan has criticised some

leaders for what he calls the rewriting of Ian Paisley's critical

contribution. What you mean by rewriting? One should also think of

the family, who was a great family man and I respect it. We are

assessing his political contribution. I welcome the fact

that he did change his mind and did go into power with Sinn Fein. I do

not forget that he wrecked every previous political initiative. We

had one in 74 which was much the same as the Good Friday Agreement.

With loyalist paramilitaries and accompanied by the increased

violence of the IRA, he wrecked that particular initiative. He also did

his best and succeeded in ringing David Trimble down when he tried to

put a power-sharing executive together and create stability -- in

bringing. He had a long record of wrecking every practical initiative

and undermining the leader of modern genius. After Sunningdale, three

decades after, he recognised this but it does not recognise the fact

that thousands of people were injured or died until he and those

who oppose the Sunningdale agreement were sharing power. We have to see

the proof of the legacy, that it leads to reconciliation. There is a

lot of work to be done with the power-sharing executive, it is not

simply about the two extremes being in power, it is about bringing

reconciliation for that I regret to say it on a day like this but the

record of Ian Paisley was against everything that stood for

reconciliation. He opposed reconciliation, he poisoned

community relations. Often his actions, in my view, fuelled

violence and I don't think we should forget that simply because at the

end of the day he did the right thing, the peace process was well

embedded by the time he came to share power with Sinn Fein. Our

dominant memory of him should be that of the younger Paisley, fire,

brimstone and those fiery speeches, those inflammatory speeches, or

should it be that of the statesman? The man who befriended Martin

McGuinness? We have to look at his entire career

and perspective. At the end he did the right thing. When you look at

the political career, you have to look at the overall contribution.

The overall contribution of Ian Paisley was not redeemed by his

agreement on power-sharing in the end. One also has to recognise that

he was responsible for fuelling community division, preventing peace

coming about earlier, and that was not something we should excise out

of the history books. We cannot rewrite history because he did the

right thing at the end. It is an assessment over four or five decades

and unfortunately there were a lot of opportunities presented for

bringing peace earlier. In my view, he was the person, and his political

philosophy, were responsible for fuelling extremism and they played

into increasing support for the IRA undergrowth of Sinn Fein. He had an

opportunity in 1974 to allow a power-sharing Executive with

moderate nationalists. His support for loyalist paramilitaries during

the UWT strike played a huge part in bringing that down. Three decades

passed before and opportunity arose again.

Some other news now and three men and a woman who were in court linked

to a police surveillance operation at a dissident terrorist training

camp in County Tyrone have received jail terms ranging from five years

All four admitted a range of offences including owning a firearm,

attending terrorist training and preparing terrorist acts.

Sharon Rafferty aged 39, Sean Kelly, who is 49 and brothers Gavin

and Aidan Coney who are 37 and 36 respectively were caught taking part

in terrorist training at Formil Wood in County Tyrone in March 2012.

Yesterday two brothers were jailed on similar charges.

The brother of a man murdered in County Londonderry ten years ago

has offered a reward of 50,000 pounds for information

leading to the conviction of anyone involved in his death.

Patrick Devine was found shot dead in his home near Claudy

An inquest into the 51-year-old sheep farmer

and part-time nurse found that he died following at least nine gunshot

Earlier the East Belfast MP Naomi Long of the Alliance Party

gave me her reaction today's news and reflected on how

My first thoughts, Donna, are with Eileen and the family circle. It is

a huge loss to then and I am sure we would want to offer our condolences

and thoughts and prayers are with them at this time, which will be a

difficult time for the family. Ian Paisley was a huge figure in

politics but also a larger than life figure in his home life and I am

sure they will feel his loss this evening. He was a man who provoked

the emotion of love and also the emotion of hate. In your

constituency in East al farce, he did not always have full backing

will stop no, but I think there will be a lot of time in the days to come

where we can analyse his legacy. Today is one for reflection and

sympathy with the family. Undoubtedly, he was a divisive

figure. Many of us in politics end up being divisive. He had strong

views and they were ones I would rarely have shared, however today, I

feel the same loss that others will feel in terms of it being the end of

an era in Northern Ireland politics. I also have great sympathy for those

who were closest to him - as friends, family and colleagues. Is

there anything you think young politicians can learn from Ian

Paisley? The one lesson of Ian Paisley's political career is that

one should never, in politics, say never. It is clear that during his

political career, perhaps his most courageous moment was when he

started to say yes. We have him to thank in many ways for the fact that

the Assembly, that was functioning from 2007, was able to do so. He led

his party through that transition into that Assembly. I do not believe

anyone else could have led the DUP into the Assembly at that time. It

is not incumbent on those who are responsible for his political legacy

to ensure that Assembly is a success. Naomi Long in Westminster,

thank you. Back to Stormont.

Joining me now from Stormont are the commentators

What have you made of reflections from people today, some saying

rewriting history has been going on? Most of the reaction has been

pretty gentle because of the day that is in it. People are holding

back, the one to want to criticise Paisley for what he did in his

career. -- the ones who. There is a lot of rewriting history. People are

trying to say that the last two or three years of his career is what

everyone should concentrate on. In fact the bulk of Paisley's career

was spent holding back any kind of progress, destroying all kinds of

initiatives, undermining other Unionist leaders, spitting unionism.

The question is whether the last two years balance the delays, the

destruction that he incited. What do you think the bulk of nationalists

are thinking this evening? People are reflecting on the fact that

Paisley prolongs the Troubles for a great period of time and settled for

what he could have settled for a 1974, which he helped to destroy.

That was with the moderate SDLP. 25 years later, a couple of thousand

people dead, and he settled for the same thing. You were deeply involved

in the Ulster Unionist Party at a time of a lot of tension. How do you

remember him? I think Bryant was basically right. He was a

destructive force in unionism. That period from 63 to 2003, that is the

bulk of his life and how we will measure him. He was someone who

constantly said no to just about everything. There was a time in

1974, even Assembly, he could have done it. But nothing until the last

moment. In 2007, there was nowhere else for him to go. He was an

accidental statesman. People thought there was a change in him. There was

not. He just reached the point where he had to stay or go. He split

unionism in the" cosmic who split it from day one. He split everything.

He had to be the top dog, political leader, church leader, he had to be

the biggest person in the room. That is what made it extraordinary. And

he did achieve it, briefly. He did. There is no doubt about it. He spent

his whole life undermining unionism. People remember him for

his antennae Catholicism and aunt are republican is and so on, but he

spent his time trying to be top dog in unison. Every Unionist leader was

undermined by him. Back to the studio.

Nigel Dodds is with me. He may have retired sometime ago, but how much

of a loss is Lord Bannside to your party and to you personally? I

worked Doctor Paisley for many, many years as his European assistant and

in wider issues in the party as well. It is very much a personal

loss to me. He was a very close friend of my family and that helped

us through difficult times and family situations, with a brief but

of relatives and so on. I think everyone in Northern Ireland regards

Ian Paisley of someone they knew because -- as someone they knew,

even if they didn't meet him. It is a big loss for the party and for me

personally, and a loss for many of my colleagues. It is a big loss for

Northern Ireland. He was so internationally known and he had

played such an port and role in the politics of Northern Ireland over so

many years. He was a larger-than-life figure. His stature

reflected that in a way. Do you think there was anyone within your

party, other than Ian Paisley, who could have brought unionism to where

it was today, sharing power with effectively your archrivals, Sinn

Fein? He was buried much a larger than life character. There are

politicians and church ministers. Ian Paisley was far more than that.

He was unique. He was the one Ian Paisley. To a large extent, his

clout, his authority, his stature in unionism meant that he was able to

deliver the dealer you refer to. I think that he should be remembered

as someone who said no when it needed to be said, on the conditions

of allowing Sinn Fein into government had not been met. He was

prepared to say no and take the unpopular choice. He was prepared to

say yes at the right time, when Sinn Fein delivered in relation to

decommissioning and support for the court's word of law and the police.

He knew what the Ulster people wanted and he knew what made them

tick. I for joining me. -- thank you.

Let's take a look at the weather for the weekend.

Looking settled for the weekend with high pressure still in charge. Still

some bright sunny spells to come, but areas of cloud as well and

eventually we will see a little bit more breeze. Not much of a breeze as

evening. It is a fine into the day for many. Clear spells through the

night and the chance that you could see the Aurora tonight. Mist and fog

patches at temperatures fall to around 8 degrees. As we head into

tomorrow, it is looking drive. We will see spells of sunshine. The

mist may lift into low cloud before the sun breaks through. Not

wall-to-wall sunshine. Some cloud rushing around. They could feel

fresh on part of the East Coast. A fine day and temperatures inland

getting up towards 20 degrees. If you are heading to the Proms in the

Park tomorrow evening, looking fairly decent. Bring a fleece

because it is on the cool side. Sunday, fresher but still dry. An

extended new summary at 10:25pm, and more details on the news online

page. That is all for now on the day Lord Bannside Ian Paisley died at

the age of 88. Described as a prince of features, a political colossus, a

one-off. From BBC Newsline, good night.

We say never! Never! Never!