19/10/2016 Look North (East Yorkshire and Lincolnshire)

Good evening and welcome to BBC Look North.

Investigations begin to see if there were clues that

two teenagers would go on to murder a mother and daughter from Spalding.

Local voices add to the pressure to take a knighthood off

Calls for action as the forler head of Hull and East Yorkshire Hospitals

Defends himself. I don't think I was ever part of the

problem. I think I took the organisation to a strong pl`ce.

The council that can't decide on the right name for one

And for a detailed look at the weather over the next few d`ys,

And for a detailed look at the weather over the next few days, join

weather over the next few d`ys, join me in 15 minutes.

An investigation will held to see if any signs were missed th`t

could have prevented the murder of a mother and

Liz and Katie Edwards were killed earlier this year

A 15-year-old girl and a 15-year-old boy who can't be named

for legal reasons - will be sentenced next month.

Today authorities said they would examine the contact

the killers had with teachers, social workers and other

There's no escaping the horror that took place here,

the shocking details revealed for all to see.

Disgusting, to be honest. It is wrong.

It kind of makes you a little bit insecure, you do not know what is

going on in the streets. It's not like it used to be. It is

different. It has changed, so we're wanting to move out Spaulding.

It is a bit disconcerting that something like that could h`ppen,

something like that could happen, especially when it is young

teenagers. You just don't expect that.

The couple were 14 when thex committed the murders, making them

among the youngest child killers in the country.

Perhaps the most famous case was when Jon Venables

and Robert Thompson murdered toddler James Bulger in Liverpool in 19 3.

In 2004, 16-year-old Alan Pdnnell was jailed for a minimum of

12 years for killing 14-year-old Luke Walmsley at the

Birkbeck College in North Lincolnshire.

And three years ago, schoolboy Will Cornick

was 15 when he stabbed and killed his teacher

But despite very high profile examples, murders by childrdn

Violence amongst young people generally is quite rare, and the

extreme crimes such as murddr happen extreme crimes such as murddr happen

very infrequently. I think the background is likely to be very

significant, and what is st`rting to significant, and what is st`rting to

materialise and emerges that their backgrounds were quite

dysfunctional. During the 15-year-old girl's trial

we heard that she had tried to kill herself in the past, and th`t

we heard that she had tried to kill herself in the past, and that she

herself in the past, and th`t she had frequent dealings with the

authorities and health care professionals. Today, Lincolnshire

County Council have announcdd the reviewing her case to see if any

lessons can be learned. Elizabeth and Katie will always be

remembered but the community They were so upset when it happened,

so upset when it happened, and They were so upset when it happened,

so upset when it happened, `nd now, with more graphic details coming out

in the press, people just cannot in the press, people just c`nnot

believe how bad it actually was, in the press, people just cannot

believe how bad it actually was and believe how bad it actually was, and

they are so shocked and devastated. But there is a positivity, they want

to move on. We have got to love But there is a positivity, they want

to move on. We have got to move on. Fresh flowers lay at the scene

where the brutal murders took place. Residents do want closure,

but many questions still remain as to how this could happen

to such a loving family. The two killers cannot be named

because of their age. Andrew Taylor is a criminal

barrister who believes their Peter Dawson is the Director

of the Prison Reform Trust. He thinks they should

remain anonymous. Earlier I spoke to them both

and started by asking Andrew Taylor I think it is in very unusual

circumstances that we do nale I think it is in very unusu`l

circumstances that we do name young circumstances that we do name young

people like this, but the p`rticular people like this, but the p`rticular

facts and circumstances of this case were so horrendous, the planning of

the execution of this murder of two people in their own homes, hs such I

people in their own homes, is such I think that society needs to know

their identities. We need to do that because society needs to protect

itself. While we have duties of care towards young people, we also have

care and duties towards the greater community.

But, many people would agree with But, many people would agred with

that. This is a terrible thing which that. This is a terrible thhng which

has been done. Why should they not be named?

I don't understand what the purpose of naming The Miz. Society rightly

expects that justice is seen to be done, and it has seemed to have been

done. The terrible details of this case have been reported on the front

page of pretty much every ndwspaper. page of pretty much every ndwspaper.

When it comes to protecting the public from future crime, none of

these people is going to be out in the public for many years to come.

They have to have a life until then which allows us to find out more

about them, and to make any risk of reoffending much smaller.

Many people have been in totch reoffending much smaller.

Many people have been in totch with us today, they think they should be

named. Don't the public havd us today, they think they should be

named. Don't the public have a us today, they think they should be

named. Don't the public havd a right to know? For their own safety, if

nothing else. The state has two duties, to catch

them, to put them to trial, and it has met that duty. It has a new set

of duties now, about their welfare and about what happens in the

future. It is a difficult balancing act, and if they are named H do not

act, and if they are named I do not see what is gained by it. Htge

see what is gained by it. Huge amount is lost.

What is gained, Mr Taylor? Xou want What is gained, Mr Taylor? You want

to know their names, but many will say they are still children and

their must be hope of rehabilitation, and leading a normal

life in the future. I sincerely hope they do

rehabilitate themselves, but they certainly did not behave like

children when they went into this home and callously executed two

people, cos that's what it was. This was execution. As a precedent for

this, we named the killers of Jamie Bulger, and this is arguably more

Bulger, and this is arguablx more serious and more heinous a crime

than the killing of that little boy. Society needs to know because these

people may well be out in 20-30 years' time. That might mean they

are still relatively young, and people who commit serious like

are still relatively young, and people who commit serious lhke this,

they go on to commit other offences. Isn't that a very good point, Mr

Dawson? The state has every till it could

possibly need -- two. They will be released on licence for the rest of

their lives, as they could be called back to prison at any moment that

the Probation Service think there may be a risk. The state does not

need any more tools to protect us. The parole board do not havd

need any more tools to protdct us. The parole board do not have a

perfect record for a good rdason. perfect record for a good reason.

Nobody could look inside thd man a Nobody could look inside the man a

woman's mind, and neither c`n the woman's mind, and neither can the

parole board. If these people are released in 20-30 years' tile, I

released in 20-30 years' time, I would like to know if they `re

living next to me in my neighbourhood, or of my children or

grandchildren happen to comd neighbourhood, or of my children or

grandchildren happen to comd into contact with them. These people

committed very serious murddrs. Mr Taylor, if they are named, they

will have to be given false identities. The pair have not been

sentenced yet. The judge will rule on when they should be identified.

What would your message be for him or her?

I do not need to give him a message, he is very learned in the lawful

he is very learned in the l`wful stop but other people have been

named. If you look at the criteria for naming young people, all those

criteria have been met and well in advance of anything that has gone on

another cases. These people do not need necessarily to have anonymity,

we need to know who they ard, need necessarily to have anonymity,

we need to know who they are, so that if and when they are rdleased

that if and when they are released we know about them and we know that

we can prevent them. And Mr Dawson?

It is an unenviable situation, but my message would be that thhs is

It is an unenviable situation, but my message would be that this is the

moment to be dispassionate, to stand back from the emotion of thhs

terrible crime and to make a terrible crime and to make `

decision which will reverberate for the next 20 or 30 years and make a

difference between these people having a future life or not.

Very good to talk to you, thank you very much indeed.

We will certainly be very kden to We will certainly be very kden to

know what you think should these and other children, who commit serious

crimes, teenagers, we named. Mr Taylor argues that they shotld be,

Taylor argues that they should be, whereas Mr Dawson thinks thdre is no

whereas Mr Dawson thinks there is no need to know the names of young

offenders, no matter how serious the Crown. Your views on this one,

should teenagers be named? @nd why? should teenagers be named? And why?

And if they should not be, why as well? We both have a sample of your

thoughts before we finish. Here are the details...

The company's collapse led to thousands of job losses

and marked the end of an era on our high streets.

Now, Grimsby's MP Melanie Onn has added her voice to calls

for the former BHS boss Sir Philip Green to be

A vote is due to take place in parliament.

Many BHS workers, including a former store manager from Lincoln have

campaigned for the billionahre retail boss to lose his title.

More from our Political Editor Tim Iredale.

Back in the summer, BHS shut up shop for the last time.

Stores in Hull, Lincoln, Grimsby and Scunthorpe closdd down,

ending the firm's 88 year presence on the British high street.

In 2015, Sir Philip Green sold the company for just ?1 to a former

The company's collapse meant the loss of 11,000 jobs

and a whacking great hole in its pension scheme.

Lin MacMillan used to be the deputy manager of the BHS Lincoln store.

She's in no doubt who's to blame for the demise of the firm.

Philip Green now has three xachts, one of which cost ?100 million.

In the meantime, 11,000 people have lost their jobs,

and 20,000 pensioners are fdaring for what is going to

Sir Philip Green said this week he was sorry for the hardshhp caused

by the downfall of BHS and said he did everything possible to keep

But number of MPs have backdd a Commons motion calling for him

Giving somebody a knighthood of the realm is one of the highest

He was given that for his services to retail.

Has he really served retail and the people

I think the majority of people who work for the company,

the majority of people who look at the incredible amount of wealth

The plight of BHS still provokes a strong reaction

I used to love BHS, you know, and I was shocked when

We don't want this building to stay like this, how it is, it is closing.

I think when he was in front of the select committee he said

he would sort it out, but he has not done yet.

So if he does, just let him keep his knighthood.

If he does not, strip him of it, wait and see.

MPs can't force the removal of a knighthood.

That's down to a separate committee, but many at Westminster want to send

a clear signal to the man they blame for the downfall of a retail giant.

This is another one you might have a view on, maybe you work that one of

the branches of BHS in East Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. Should

Philip Green lose his knighthood? There is the e-mail address and text

number. Is he to be held responsible for the collapse of the company?

for the collapse of the company Look forward to hearing from you.

Look forward to hearing frol you. There will be more on that story in

our late programme at 10:30pm. The family and friends

of a 50-year-old man from Cleethorpes who died

in the Lake District on Saturday - have said he was an inspiration

who loved sports and found time Kevin Ryan was preparing to spend

the night with a group of eight friends at the Priest's Hold cave,

seen here in a recent BBC documentary, when he fell 500 feet

down the face of Dove Crag. There's been a rise in unemployment

across our area 160,000 people are out of work

in Yorkshire and the Humber - But there's been a smaller increase

in the East Midlands 109,000 people are unemployed -

There's been a rise in unemployment Phil Morley left his job as head

of Hull and East Yorkshire's hospital two years ago

amid allegations of bullying He took up a similar role with

another hospital trust in Essex which has now been rated as

inadequate under his leadership. The Howell MP -- Hull MP Diana Johnson

says there should be more controls to stop people moving from one job

to another. Why is Mr morally such a

controversial figure? Phil Morley first came to public

attention when he started m`king big attention when he started m`king big

cuts to try to tackle the Hull and East Yorkshire's huge deficht

cuts to try to tackle the Htll and East Yorkshire's huge deficit at

cuts to try to tackle the Hull and East Yorkshire's huge deficht at the

time. He then attracted widespread time. He then attracted widdspread

criticism for his Superman staff training video. Less amusing were

reports of a bullying culture which were highlighted by a critical CQC

report, which was published just weeks after he left the trust, which

rated the trust as inadequate. A few months later, it was revealdd he

rated the trust as inadequate. A few months later, it was revealed he had

months later, it was revealdd he had spent around ?50,000 on his NHS

credit card. NHS investigators are still looking at that. He

strenuously denies any wrongdoing. Today, the Hull MP Diana Johnson

expressed her anger that Mr Morley has apparently failed at another

hospital trust. He is still under investigation by

NHS protectors well, that h`s not NHS protectors well, that has not

been concluded. It is almost two years now. I would like to see that

done. I have written to Jeremy Hunt to say, we need to take somd

done. I have written to Jerdmy Hunt to say, we need to take some action.

to say, we need to take somd action. He needs to look at how Phil morally

was allowed to move on to a new post so easy.

Standard that the Harlow trust, where Mr morally is now in charge,

have gone down to being inadequate, and it looks like the trust will be

put into special measures. Despite the criticisms now and during his

time at the Hull trust, Phil Morley insisted today that he has been a

successful manager. I think you find from my history in

the NHS both as a clinician and a senior leader, I have done some

really successful things. I was nominated for inspirational leader

of the year, I was the first person to win an international turnaround

award for turning a hospital around. You can look at my track record and

I can feel really proud of the differences I have made. I don't

think I was ever part of the differences I have made. I don't

think I was ever part of thd problem at Hull, I took that organisation to

a strong place. Some people will never liked the decisions you have

to make. Phil Morley has told the BBC today

that he wants to continue hhs that he wants to continue hhs

current job which carries a 6-figure salary. Diana Johnson, meanwhile,

says she will press on with her recommendations to see that hospital

managers who have failed cannot just hop from job to job.

County Councillors in Lincolnshire have claimed more than ?1.3 million

in allowances and expenses over the last financial year.

This is a slight increase from the previous year.

30 councillors claimed more than ?20,000 -

The Council leader, Martin Hill claimed just over ?35,000.

However, the authority say that s less than he was entitled to claim.

The time is 6:45pm. Thank you for choosing Look North. Still ahead on

choosing Look North. Still `head on the programme: The non-league

the programme: The non-leagte football team celebrating being

the programme: The non-league football team celebrating bding in

the first round of the FA Cup for the first round of the FA Cup for

the first time in their history. And the council confused about what to

cull one of its own tourist attractions -- coal.

Tonight's photograph was taken by Ian, he took this autumn in East

Park in Hull this morning. Thank you very much indeed, very autumnal.

Park in Hull this morning. Thank you very much indeed, very autulnal Who

very much indeed, very autumnal. Who needs the weather forecast, I could

do it myself and we could s`ve a bob or two.

You can point to look at the You can point to look at the

Stevenson screen and make a weather recording. I will let you know if

I've got a spare day. Every day is a spare day, Peter. Let's have a look

spare day, Peter. Let's havd a look at the headlines for the next 24

hours. Not much going on, v`riable cloud, one or two showers around.

Friday's chart shows a ridge of high Friday's chart shows a ridgd of high

pressure. The jet stream will pale back to Spain and Portugal. We may

see the first widespread frost of the season first light Frid`y

morning. But the breeze continues to come in from the North and

north-east, it has been a gusty and north-east, it has been a gtsty and

chilly day along the coast, and the wind will blow in showers from time

to time this evening and overnight. to time this evening and overnight.

It is a night of variable cloud again, with a scattering of showers,

but there will be quite a bit of again, with a scattering of showers,

but there will be quite a bht of dry but there will be quite a bht of dry

weather in between those showers as well. When we get some shelter,

rural areas in the West will have temperatures of around 6-7d

elsewhere. Nine or 10 Celsits, 0 Fahrenheit elsewhere. High water

time... Thursday, variable cloud with some

sunshine. One or two showers drifting in from the North Sea, but

they will be few and far between. Quite a few of us will be dry and

there will be further sunny spells. The wind will slowly ease,

particularly in coastal areas. particularly in coastal areas.

Temperatures close to today's values, 13 Celsius, 55 Fahrdnheit.

values, 13 Celsius, 55 Fahrenheit. Any isolated showers will dhe away

on Thursday night, skies will clear and the wind will fault. A bit of a

touch of frost first light Friday morning. Friday looks dry with

morning. Friday looks dry whth sunshine, Saturday and Sunday the

sunshine, Saturday and Sund`y the breeze picks up, variable cloud,

sunny spells again, and a ftrther sunny spells again, and a further

scattering of showers. That is the forecast.

Things seemed to go with this theme. Things seemed to go with thhs theme.

Please tell Paul Hudson that padded shoulders went out with Joan

Crawford! It was a fashion comment. You related to Michael Crawford?

Give me strength. See you tomorrow. The non-league team Stamford have

made it into the FA Cup first round for the first time

in their history. They won a dramatic match

at Wrexham last night. The manager celebrated by having

a day off from his job as a bricklayer, but one pl`yer had

just two hours sleep before Laundry day after one of thd biggest

games in Stamford AFC's history. It is massive for the club, for the

town. It is just a great achievement.

Last night the team - which includes a postman,

delivery driver, a few builders, teachers and an electrician,

beat National League side Wrexham in a thrilling game to qualify

for the first round proper of the FA Cup for the

But 2-0 up with four minutes to go, it almost went horribly wrong.

Wrexham drew level, taking the game to extra time.

We kept going, and when that free kick went and it was a relief. When

kick went and it was a relidf. When the final whistle went, did not know

where to be! Two minutes to go in extra time, crawling on his hands

and knees, being sick on thd extra time, crawling on his hands

and knees, being sick on the pitch, and knees, being sick on the pitch,

the ball goes next to him on the pitch, he runs after it agahn and

pitch, he runs after it again and then the players are crying on the

pitch at the end of it, wow Wrexham are three leagues above

Stamford FC, who play in thd Stamford FC, who play in the

Northern league Premier League division South. The 80 of English

football. They will face Hartlepool United, but who are Stamford AFC?

after Daniel Lambert, known as the fattest man in England,

The club has won the United Counties League eight times.

But the biggest moment in their history came in 1980

at Wembley when they won the FA Vase.

Today blurry-eyed fans who returned from Wales in the early hours

It was unbelievable, as a fan I think most of us have lost our

voices today. My heart stopped started several

times, there were men in thd times, there were men in the

terraces crying. It was amazing. Put us on the

football map, Stamford is f`mous for football map, Stamford is f`mous for

a few things, hopefully now the football.

Stamford will play hartlepool on November 5th ,

and this Lincolnshire town will have fingers crossed

-- Hartlepool. Great night for Stamford.

And also in the FA Cup last night Lincoln City reached the first

There are some reports circtlating this evening that Hull City has been

sold to a consortium in China for ?130 million. The BBC has contacted

the club, but there has been no official confirmation if there is

official confirmation if thdre is any change, we will let you know,

the next from us will be at 10:30pm the next from us will be at 10: 0pm

tonight. How hard can it be for a cotncil

to write a signpost directing people Very hard, it seems,

in North Lincolnshire. Nestled on the south bank

of the Humber, it must have been easy to name the Waters' Edge

visitor centre but it seems punctuating the signs that `dvertise

it has proven more difficult. Mike Nind from Chesterfield

was visiting North Lincolnshire when he noticed a curious anomaly

between brown signs. We just drove past one sign

and I saw it after the S, We then past another one

and it was before the S. I thought it was strange thdy have

got it two ways. And then we drove past the one

behind us and that didn't Certainly, on an official shgn,

they should get it right. In Winterton, more than nine miles

away from the visitor centrd, on the first of two signs,

the apostrophe is But less than 200 metres away,

on the same stretch of road, a second sign, which uses

the apostrophe in a different way. Back in Barton, do those enjoying

the park now which sinus dramatically correct?

I think that one. Being old-fashioned, I think that

one, because that is how we were taught in school.

Either that one or... Actually, I don't know.

The Plain English Campaign says an apostrophe is required

in Waters' Edge but says there should be consistency

The edge belongs to the water, doesn't it?

It is the edge of the water so it needs the apostrophe of possession.

No apostrophe at all is not really an option.

These marks are not just little blobs which are stuck into writing

They are signs which show pdople how to understand the piece of writing.

How to read it, how to make sense of it. They are there to help.

North Lincolnshire Council says placing the apostrophe after the S

is correct and will now look to change the spelling on shgns

And Mike, who you saw there in the film, got in touch

If you have a story you think we should know about, drop us an e-mail

and also telephone. Let's get a recap of the national

and regional headlines There's a row following the arrival

of child migrants as one Tory MP calls for dental checks to

determine their age. Investigations begin to see

if there were clues that two teenagers would murder a mother

and daughter from Spalding. Tomorrow's weather, mostly dry and

bright with cloud of sunny spells as well. Top temperature, 13 Celsius,

55 Fahrenheit. That's livelx discussion about children who commit

serious crimes, should they be named? We heard both sides, a big

response. Keith said, this hs another example of the do-gooders

excusing the perpetrators of crime and ignoring the rights of the

victims. Samantha says, this was a mindless and calculate the brutal

crime. These children have crossed a line, there is no way back from it,

name them. Kelly says, what is the point of naming them, it will only

cost money to give them a whole new identity if they were ever released.

Paul says, if they are old dnough to commit a crime, they are old enough

to be named and face the consequences. I cannot understand

why they do not name minors. John says they should be named and shamed

whatever their age. Agnes s`ys, says they should be named and shamed

whatever their age. Agnes says, why whatever their age. Agnes s`ys, why

should they have the right to anonymity? We as the public have a

right to know. J says, I think they should be named as part of their

sentence and punishment will stop Andy says, they have committed a

horrendous crime, they will be sentenced accordingly, therd is no

reason to know their names. There we are, opinions on both sides. Thank

you for those, and thank yot for you for those, and thank yot for

watching. We will have more on our late news that have passed ten. Join

us then if you can -- 10:30pm. Have a nice evening, goodbye.