Reproductions - Part 1 Flog It: Trade Secrets

You've been coming to our "Flog It!" valuation days for well over

a decade now, and you haven't disappointed.

And with around 950 shows under our belt,

and thousands of your antiques and collectables valued,

you've certainly put our experts through their paces.

-What's in there?

-I brought it along for someone to tell me what it was.

I have seen these in books before, but never in real life.

-Commission bid is £500.

-What?!

-Oh!

And now we want to share some of the knowledge we've

learned from the items you've shown us.

Welcome to Trade Secrets.

A report that was published in September 2013 alleges that

a significant amount of antiques that are bought in the UK are fakes.

Now, whether that is true or not, it does pay to be on your guard.

So, on today's programme, we'll be looking at collectables that

caused controversy.

Fake or not, that's the question for Anita.

I just got a feeling that it wasn't right.

You could turn a £60 replica

into a £600 antique.

We find out how to avoid being taken in.

If you spend £120 on something like this, you've lost your money.

And we see when reproductions can still be the real deal.

£550.

-Thanks, Mum.

-"Thanks, Mum."

You didn't think it was worth that, did you?

Well, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery,

and that's certainly the case of makers of all fine things.

They attract copycats, but when is a copy a fake made to deceive,

and when is it an homage to a master of their art?

Very often you can use the word "reproduction" or you can use

the word "fake". The fake is an intention to deceive someone into thinking that it is

an original.

If something is particularly rare,

it could well be a fake.

If something is in wonderful condition,

it could be a fake.

Caution, I think, is important. Don't act with your heart

if you're going to regret it with your head later, particularly

if it is involving laying out quite a lot of money initially.

It is exciting when a reproduction or fake crosses our tables.

It adds intrigue, sparks debate,

and let's face it, our experts love a bit of detective work.

And these skills can be very useful

when it comes to antique wood furniture.

You can often find recent pieces purporting to be much older.

I've seen many, and Philip Serrell

came across a perfect example in 2005.

In my eyes, the joint stool was a reproduction

because it was intended to be a copy of the original.

-Where did this come from?

-It came from my mother-in-law's house.

They were quite surprised to find it there

because she wasn't the kind of lady who liked anything that looked old.

How old do you think this is?

Well, that's what I was dubious about

-because...

-How old do you think it should be?

-I think it should be 1600 and something.

-1600 and something.

So this is a 17th-century stool.

-Yeah?

-Yeah.

-And what type of stool do we call it?

-A joint stool.

-A joint stool. And what's it made of?

-Oak?

Oak. Do you want to stand here and have my job? No.

If this has been around for the thick end of 300 years,

wouldn't there be some wear here? More wear.

'You can't fake age.'

You don't get to look like this if you're only 20.

And if you look at a stool that's perhaps only 100 years old,

you can see that it's not 200 or 300 years old,

because it hasn't been around for long enough.

People would have sat on this and perhaps put feet on here,

and there would be more wear here.

Can you just see that this dark

-patina here?

-Yeah.

It almost suddenly stops there, like it's been painted on.

-Yeah.

-So this is oak. It is almost a joint stool.

But I think it is 19th-century rather than 17th-century.

In terms of value...

..if this was 17th-century...

I think it would have been £600-£900.

So...I'm afraid we're going to have to take a nought off.

-All right?

-Well...

I think we need to put £60-£90 on this,

and we'll reserve it for you at £50.

That will ensure that it will sell.

And I actually think that represents cracking value for money for someone.

-So let's keep our fingers crossed.

-OK.

So, Philip confirmed Helen's suspicions.

But did the bidders agree with our expert's estimate?

45 with me. And 50, sir.

50. I'll go five and 60.

60 and it's there. And it's there at £60.

And five, anywhere else?

-Are we all done at £60?

-Yeah, the hammer has gone down.

60 quid, spot on.

Whoo, that was touch and go, wasn't it, for a second?

Starting at £30.

Philip was right on the mark.

If you're going to go buy from a dealer or an auction room

a piece of 17th century furniture, the first thing you should do is

make sure that the receipt you get says, "17th century."

Not "17th century style" or "17th-century manner,"

but it says, "17th century."

And if your catalogue description, or the label in the shop,

doesn't say, "This is 17th-century, circa 16, whatever,"

take a step back.

And don't be afraid to ask.

Because if you don't, you could come unstuck.

Now, our experts don't always agree

when assessing your items at valuation days.

But there's one particular area of collecting that's had more

than its fair share of tense standoffs.

The Colt revolver is the archetypal

symbol of the American West.

What are they doing here in the centre of Glasgow?

Well, I used to collect them many years ago, about 20 years ago,

but I just decided I've got too many now and want to get rid of some of them.

I love the Wild West.

I love Wild Bill Hickok and Wyatt Earp and all that

so, for me, there was an interesting history there.

This one is the Colt army pattern.

This one is the Colt Navy pattern.

Both of them 1850s, 1870s

or so in date. Classic six-shot cylinder.

And both of them have ivory slab-sided grips.

And here, there's a wonderful verse,

"Be not afraid of any man no matter what his size.

"Call on me in your need, and I will equalise."

The verse that was on that handle...

is one that is very, very famous,

The Equaliser...

for the Colt was the verse that made them almost iconic.

The wonderful early colour on this one indicates it has never

been changed. On this one...

I don't know.

'When it came to those two pieces,'

the ivory isn't actually the biggest telltale sign because,

especially with a weapon,

you can damage the grips and they can be replaced.

So the fact that they were

a paler colour just indicated that they could

have been replaced, but again, they could quite simply have been

put away.

Values, do you have anything in mind for them? Obviously you know a lot about them.

-Well, I know what they cost me.

-That is a good starting place.

-What did they cost?

-Well, I think this one was about 600 and something.

-OK.

-This one, I think, was about 400 and something.

-Yeah.

-Are you happy to put a 600 and a 400 reserve on them?

-Yes.

And put four to five on that and six to eight on that, gives us

-a fighting chance.

-Right.

But at Anita Manning's saleroom,

research suggested there might be more

to one of the guns than first appeared.

When these two guns came into auction,

er, we look at them very carefully.

The first one...everything seemed fine.

When I looked at the second one...

I just got a feeling that it wasn't right.

The handle was too fresh,

the surface of the barrel just

wasn't consistent with it being 150 years old.

Guns can be a difficult area.

You have firearms laws,

which you must comply with.

So we looked at that gun

more carefully.

In the 1960s, they started making replicas in Italy.

-Right, OK.

-Now, these weren't meant to be fakes.

They were meant to be replicas of the item. But the marks,

the Italian serial marks, could quite easily be taken off...

-And then re-stamped.

-..and fake marks put on,

so you could turn a £60 replica

into a £600 antique.

So, to be on the safe side,

the second gun was withdrawn from the sale.

I'm still not 100% sure that it was as wrong as...

it was said.

But, with guns, you have to be so careful.

And I agree 100% with what Anita did

by withdrawing it.

Because if you have an element of doubt,

then you must withdraw it.

-We have one in the sale. We're looking at £400-£500.

-Right.

-Are you happy with that?

-Yes, reasonably happy.

OK, hopefully we get the top end.

That's what we want, we are going to hit the target right now.

-£300.

-Oh, I thought it was going to be more.

300 with me.

320. 350.

380. 400.

420. 450.

480. 500.

The bid is with me, the bid's on the books at £500.

520, fresh bidder.

550 on the books.

580.

I'm out.

It's on the floor at

£580.

Could have belonged to Wild Bill Hickok.

LAUGHTER

-Or Jesse James.

-580.

Any advance on 580? All done at 580.

-580.

-Sold.

-£580. We're happy. You're happy, aren't you?

-Yes, of course.

-Smiles all around.

-That's good.

Do you know, I sell about

2,000 lots a week.

Between us we try and get most things right.

But have we ever been fooled by

a fake? Yeah, of course.

It happens to the best of us, James.

High-value items are often copied.

Most copies aren't done to deceive

but to fill a legitimate market.

And these turn up at our valuation days in all shapes and sizes,

as Mark Stacey discovered.

It was my first "Flog it!".

I had no idea what to expect, but I

wasn't expecting such a large clock.

This is a very decorative clock that you have brought in with you.

-You know, of course, it is a reproduction clock.

-Yes.

It is modelled in the style of Louis XVI.

French, 18th-century.

-But probably made around the time you bought it.

-Oh.

And I think we'd be looking at an estimate of something like

-£400-£600.

-Yes.

And let's hope it makes a striking success at the sale.

If you're a modest collector and you can't afford £200,000

for a Louis XVI clock, to pick one up for

300 or 400, 500 or 600 is in your budget.

And it was a very visual clock, very decorative.

What should we say to start me? I have two commissions.

-I start the bidding at 300.

-Bid's left.

-Oh, right.

-Straight in.

At 350. Do we have 360?

At £350...I order.

That was so short and sweet, but it was over with very quickly.

-Yeah, but it's gone.

-It's gone.

-I'm pleased.

You cannot fake 200 years of age.

Now we've all heard of the violin maker Antonio Stradivari,

whose incredible craftsmanship in Cremona, Italy,

in the 17th and 18th centuries, brought him wealth and fame.

And since then, hundreds of violin makers have striven

to emulate his work.

Some more successfully than others.

Fortunately, "Flog It's!" musical expert, Adam Partridge, knows

the difference.

Well, it belonged to my mother.

-Right.

-It was bought for her when she was about 11, 12 years old.

-Did she play then?

-I'm not sure. I've never heard her play it.

-Really?

-So you've never heard this violin played.

-No.

Now, I think this is...

Well, we've got a label inside it first of all.

And the label reads,

"Carlo Storioni... registered.

"Cremonensis Faciebat, 1912,"

which basically means Carlo Storioni made this in Cremona,

which is in Italy, of course, in 1912.

And I'm not sure that's exactly the truth.

I'm automatically suspicious any time

I come across any violin with a label,

until I've had a good look at it and assessed

whether I think it is actually by the label or not, because there is

so much jiggery-pokery going on in the...

in the violin trade over the centuries.

Storioni was a family of violin makers, dating back from the 18th century,

and they were Cremonese violin makers.

And it is generally accepted that the Cremonese,

or Cremona-based violin makers, is the home of violin making.

And they were the best violins.

So lots of violins pretend to be from Cremona.

And we've sold a few of these Storioni violins that have, in fact,

been German.

There was an eminent maker by the name of Lorenzo Storioni,

who died in 1799.

So I think what they are trying to imply with this Carlo Storioni that

we had here was that perhaps he was some connection with the great

master, one of the great makers of the 18th century,

where in fact there's no connection at all.

They are almost good enough to be taken as Italian, and sometimes

people think they are Italian, and they make quite a good price.

But I think this is a German example.

'If my name is Thomas Muller, something typically German,'

it doesn't sound that glamorous.

But if it says "Carlo Storioni",

well, you think your violin is made by one of the Italian masters

whereas, in reality, it is just a really decent quality German

workshop violin.

We've got the table here, the front, which is made from pine.

Very good condition.

No cracks, which is vital because that affects the sound quality.

And on the back there we have a two piece back, down the middle there,

which is made from maple.

The date we know because that is correct.

The date of the label, there's nothing wrong with that.

Have you got any idea what an instrument like this might be worth?

-None whatsoever.

-None whatsoever? Not even a guess?

-Not even a guess.

Normally we'd expect this sort of violin to

realise £200-£400 at auction.

And a reserve of £200, so it doesn't go for less than that.

Because I'm convinced it's worth that,

and then it will find its value in the sale.

-What do you think of that?

-SHE EXHALES

-Well, it's beyond my expectations.

-Is it beyond...

-I thought you were disappointed for a minute.

-No, no. No.

Georgina was a lovely lady, and she was visibly moved, I think,

by the valuation and the hammer price, and that's a real joy.

I mean, that's what makes a job worthwhile.

120. 140. 160.

180. 200.

220.

240.

260.

260. 280.

300. 320.

Yeah, this is good.

340. 360.

380. 400.

420. 450.

480. 500.

550.

At 550, are we all done?

On Tom's phone, at £550.

-Bang! Yes, 550 quid.

-Thanks, Mum!

-"Thanks, Mum."

-You didn't think it was worth that, did you?

No, I didn't think we would get anywhere near that.

A wonderful result for Georgina.

So here are a few things to bear in mind.

If the Wild West appeals, my first suggestion wouldn't be firearms.

Not only are there strict licensing laws,

but the fakes on the market can be difficult to spot.

And as we've seen in the past, there are plenty of other

fascinating pieces of Americana to collect.

Reproductions are worth considering.

They're a good way of owning something in the style

of a piece that would normally be out of your price bracket.

And if it's a well-made, quality reproduction,

it can still make a pretty penny at auction,

as Georgina discovered.

100 years ago, Kilburn, in North Yorkshire, was home to a man

whose work regular "Flog It!" viewers will recognise.

Original pieces by Robert Thompson, the Mouseman, are very distinctive,

highly collectable and command huge prices in the saleroom.

But perhaps less well known is the work of his apprentices,

the so-called Yorkshire Critters.

"Flog It!" expert Caroline Hawley had the pleasure of returning

to her home county to find out more.

The Yorkshire Critters are a bunch of craftsmen who make solid oak

pieces of furniture, all with their own individual critters on them.

There's the "Lizardman", the "Rabbitman", the "Gnomeman",

the "Wrenman", to name but a few.

But they all hark back to the originator, which was

Robert "Mouseman" Thompson, based in Kilburn.

And I'm here today to see some of his furniture.

I'm so thrilled to see it as a Yorkshire lass, born and bred.

There isn't a Yorkshireman worth his salt that hasn't heard of Mouseman.

Robert "Mouseman" Thompson was born in 1876

and dedicated his life to the art of making English oak furniture.

Using traditional tools,

he made furniture in the style of the 17th century.

And it's his great-grandson, Ian Thompson Cartwright,

who is showing Caroline around today.

-This is where it all starts with the raw material.

-Yes, it is, Caroline.

These are our oak logs that have been purchased in the British Isles.

-Gosh.

-And...

-You call that a log?

-That is a log, yes.

And that particular one is about 300 years old.

I'm going to take you up into the workshop

so we can see what actually happens next.

-After, you know, we get our hands on...

-Great.

-..the tree. OK.

-Thank you.

-Come along.

So, Ian, how do you spot a genuine piece of Mouseman?

-Are there signs that I can look for?

-Yes, there are.

I mean, we've been using certain

designs for over 100 years.

One of them is the octagonal leg.

That shape has been used for literally over 100 years here.

It was one of Great-grandfather's early designs.

It is timeless, isn't it, really?

The methods they use and... It is very Arts and Crafts.

The most obvious way to tell any of our pieces of furniture

is by the mouse trademark.

Great-grandfather was working on a piece of furniture

with his fellow craftsman, and a fellow craftsman happened to mention

he thought they were both as poor as church mice.

He thought how alike he was. You know, the church mouse is working away

with its chisel-like teeth, and nobody knows what it's up to.

And here was he working away on the edge of the Hambleton Hills.

And really not making a song and dance about it.

So consequently a mouse has appeared on every piece of furniture ever since then.

Adam is actually creating a mouse in the inside

of a fruit bowl here

and he is busy carving the ear at the moment.

I thought Caroline would maybe like to put the...

the indentation into the earlobe there.

Really? Once it has been taken out,

you can't put it back in, can you?

Oh, gosh, something is coming off. Oh!

Oh, no.

This one's going to have big ears. SHE LAUGHS

Yes, very big ears.

-We have an ear, OK.

-Oh, wow.

As you can see, we've got a

rather nice fireplace which was Great-grandfather's,

but this particular mantelpiece he carved himself.

Interesting to note the mice on here,

which have got front legs with raised heads.

Very early mice, these are from the early '20s.

Because they were streamlined, we lost the legs in the later '20s,

so it's a good way of dating early pieces of furniture.

And the patination on this oak is just gorgeous.

Yeah, it's amazing.

Everybody that wants to come in wants to rub it.

I've been thinking about the Yorkshire Critters,

who actually imitate your great-grandfather's work.

Do you ever have people that deliberately out-and-out try and

fake or imitate or copy?

Yes, we have in the past.

We had a case not too long ago

where we had 250 of our cow stools that were made in China

brought back into the UK and then were distributed quite quickly

and ended up being offered for sale on the internet

and through auction houses the length and breadth of the UK.

-Oh, gosh!

-We've got an example here that I'd like to show you.

-This is the genuine item.

-Yeah.

This is a milking stool, our cow stool we sell, with three legs,

we never make a milking stool with a jointed top, and...

It's out of one solid piece?

One solid piece, and obviously,

-the mouse is carved out of the solid as well.

-Mmm.

But the ones that were coming in from China were made out of

three and four pieces and the mice weren't carved by hand,

they were actually carved on a CNC router.

So without knowing what the original is like, seeing and handling

the original, I presume the machine-made copy, at first glance,

to an untrained eye, would have looked roughly all right?

Well, we're in a fortunate position, because we can verify our own work.

People can always send images into us, here at Kilburn

and we'll verify the authenticity of the piece.

-That's worth doing.

-Yeah.

Ian, thank you SO much for today, I have enjoyed myself enormously

and I really have learnt an awful lot about Mouseman!

-I could stop here all night.

-HE LAUGHS

The prices are really fascinating, with it just dependent on

what type of critter is on your piece of furniture.

There was a Mouseman dresser that made 3,500, but a dresser in

a very same style, almost identical, but with a rabbit on, made £1,400.

I mean, that's a huge difference in price,

but it all harks back to the originator, Robert "Mousey" Thompson.

That is the one to look for if you want the best

and the most expensive.

But they're all fascinating, a wonderful field to collect.

A clever forger or faker will always manage to convince

someone that he's looking at the real McCoy.

So we asked the "Flog It!" team to offer some sage words

of advice on how to avoid being taken in.

I think this is a lovely painting, actually, and it's signed, LS Lowry,

the signature looks good, the subject looks quite good, too.

It's very much in his style with thick layers of paint etc,

but I'm not convinced it's a genuine one, I'm afraid.

One of the things with Lowry is that you'll never really fully

know 100% whether it's absolutely genuine

unless you've got a cast-iron provenance linking it to Lowry himself.

So, at the moment, it's "Style of LS Lowry", £500-£700,

but if it was the real thing, and we can prove it to be the real thing,

I would have thought it would be £30,000-£50,000.

Is this really a milk jug or might it have been something else?

It is, in fact, a christening mug that has been converted.

And it's been converted by the addition of this spout.

What's particularly worrying is that the spout is not hallmarked,

which means it's an illegal, conversion.

And as an illegal conversion, we can't sell it.

It's as simple as that. So, it's valueless.

If you spent £120 on something like this, you'd lost your money.

These two items are both Staffordshire Flatback figures.

They look fairly similar at first glance.

One is real and one is a fake.

But can YOU tell which one?

This one is the fake.

It has actually been deliberately made to look old.

If you look closely at this, you will see it is crazed all over.

And that's done to make it look old,

so it's got far more crazing than the original piece.

This original one could be top hundreds, I would say.

Whereas this can be bought in the UK now for £10 or less.

This is ostensibly a little Georgian dessert spoon that dates to

London, 1790, by the Partnership of George Smith,

and I bought it at an auction because I felt there was

something just slightly awry with the hallmark.

When it came, I was delighted to find out that it's not actually

a genuine Georgian spoon, but it's a fake.

But it's not a modern fake.

It was made by famous forgers at the late Victorian period,

Lyon and Twinam.

And consequently, this, as a Victorian forgery of a

Georgian spoon, is actually rarer than the Georgian spoon itself.

I wouldn't legally be able to sell this.

I can own it, that's fine.

But if I wanted to sell it, I would have to submit it to

the Goldsmith's Hall, to the Antique Plate Committee.

They'd consider it, they'd come to the conclusion it's an 1890s

forgery and they'd erase the marks here and they'd either offer me

the value of the silver on the day, or return it to me

hallmarked with modern marks.

The sad thing then is, you've lost the history of it.

Some final words of advice from the "Flog It!" team.

I hope today's show has given you some pointers to help sort

the real contenders from the great pretenders.

Join us again soon for more Trade Secrets.