Reproductions - Part 2 Flog It: Trade Secrets

You've been coming to our "Flog It!" valuation days

for well over a decade now and you haven't disappointed.

With around 950 shows under our belt and thousands of your antiques

and collectables valued, you've certainly put our experts

through their paces.

-Absolutely beautiful. Happy to flog it?

-Yes.

-Let's flog it.

-Flog it.

120....

-That's a good result. Top end.

-Great.

-Happy, very happy with that.

Very happy.

And now we want to share some of the knowledge

we've learnt from the items you've shown us.

Welcome to Trade Secrets.

To restore or not to restore?

Now, that's the quandary that presents itself

to lovers of all antiques and collectables.

Damage can detract from an item's appeal,

yet it's true to say collectors prefer authenticity.

So on today's show, we'll be treading the fine line of restoration

and confronting issues head-on.

Got a bit of bad news for you.

And we find out how to become restoration savvy.

The best way of learning the lesson is to buy a piece

that you think is perfect and you subsequently discover it's restored,

cos you'll never forget that one.

And discover what the bidders make of a recently restored heirloom.

£1,400. We're on the phone, you're out.

The hammer's gone down. Your husband had a good eye, didn't he?

At our valuation days,

the restoration we see is usually so good you can barely spot it.

But, back in 2010, I took a trip to the foothills of Snowdonia

to find out about a monumental restoration job

that everybody can see,

at Gwydyr Castle, one of the finest Tudor houses in Wales.

A house like this just echoes of the past -

the walls permeate history.

You can't help yourself. You want to touch them and soak it all up.

It was once a fortified house.

The castle was the ancestral home of the powerful Wynn baronets,

a significant family in North Wales throughout the Tudor

and Stuart period.

Today, as you can see, the house has evolved over the centuries

but inside it's full of character and charm and atmosphere.

All the perfect ingredients for a fairytale.

This modern-day fairytale started in 1994 when a young couple,

Judy Corbett and Peter Welford, followed their dreams.

Throwing caution to the wind, they bought Gwydyr with the money

they raised in the sale of an inherited cottage and a bank loan.

It was totally dilapidated at the time -

a crumbling ruin with a wild, overgrown garden.

With the help of the Welsh Historic Monuments Agency,

they started what will probably end up being their lifetime's work -

its restoration.

A restoration project of this size is a huge undertaking.

In fact, I'm going to rephrase that -

it's a MAMMOTH undertaking,

but Peter and Judy are totally focused and committed.

They love architecture, they love history

and, with that combination, they've succeeded so far.

It's a beautiful, beautiful castle.

I'm going inside to catch up with Judy to find out all about it.

What was it like when you first came here?

Um, it was pretty derelict, yeah.

-Roofless in part, horses and chickens living in here.

-Really?

-In this particular room?

-Yes.

Yeah, so it was really quite bad

and obviously no plumbing or wiring to speak of.

I had a walk around the grounds before I came in

and they're beautifully landscaped now.

Lots of formal plantings, lots of clipped yew and box

and, gradually, it's all coming back together again.

There's one particular tale I know you haven't mentioned yet and

that's how you managed to do a bit of detective work on your dining room.

Yes, a neighbour turned up with the sale catalogue.

-Of the contents of the castle.

-Of the contents of the castle from 1921.

Basically, to cut a very long story short,

it transpired that William Randolph Hearst,

who you'll know as Citizen Kane in the famous film,

had bought two rooms at the sale here in 1921.

The rooms had been destined for San Simeon in California,

the castle he was building for himself there.

We'd started doing some detective work and gradually traced the room

to the Metropolitan Museum in New York

and that is where we found it.

Was it on display? Or was it just in storage?

No, it was actually still in its packing crates from 1921.

-They'd never done anything with it?

-Never done anything with it.

So were they pleased to sell it back to you, then?

Well, it took us two years to negotiate with them

and we went over to New York to see the room, in fact...

How fascinating!

..and went to this extraordinary warehouse in the Bronx.

-This whole new world was opening up for you.

-Yes.

There, in the middle of it, was our panelled room,

and they literally just give us a hammer and a chisel and said,

"Go ahead and open the crates."

And the most astonishing thing was, when we started opening the crates

and saw this amazing room, it still smelled of Gwydyr,

after all those years, 75 years.

-Only you know what that smell is, really.

-Well, it moved us enormously.

-Just to have that piece of...

-Did you have a tear in your eye?

-I did, I'm afraid, yes.

-Can I have a look?

Absolutely, yes.

Of course, all the furniture, all the contents were sold as well.

Why was there a big house sale?

Hard to say. 1921, just after the war.

Money was tight, same old story, it was happening all over Britain.

And was that the start, really, of the decline?

Yes, in Sir John Wynn's day, the estate was huge.

You know, the deer park alone was 36,000 acres.

So it was a massive estate.

So this is lot 88, the remarkably fine 17th-century panelling.

How much did it sell for back then, do you know?

Ah, well, quite a lot of money, actually.

I think it was something like 1,000 guineas, which is a lot of money.

But it attracted a lot of attention.

Hearst obviously was introduced to it by his friend, Lord Duveen,

who owned the house then and started to asset strip, basically.

After two years of negotiation

it got packed away back in that box again and shipped back over here.

It came back, yes, yes, after 75 years of exile,

it came back to Gwydyr and...

Was it a puzzle, putting it back together?

Or was it all carefully marked, joint-to-joint?

Well, unfortunately not,

so that's why it made our job that much more difficult.

It was very hard because they came in great big sheets of panelling

and they had very loose markings on the back,

but we were really working from just the sale catalogue,

these sepia photographs.

Whilst we were working on the room,

we hardly left the place for two years, it was that intense,

really, just making sure that everything went back together again.

-You really are living and breathing this, aren't you?

-Yes.

We're very passionate about it and love it very much.

Gosh, here we are.

Wow, I love the carvings, I love the trailing ivy with the grapes.

Yeah, they're very intricate and very elaborate and...

When was that carved? When was this made?

Well, the panelling was made for this space

in about 1640 for Sir Richard Wynn

and then it's been embellished

and played with a little bit over the centuries

but really, yeah, 1640.

And this echoes what's going on around the doorway, doesn't it?

Yes, these twisty columns, they're called Solomonic columns.

Lovely, deep relief on the carving.

And then in the middle we've got the coat of arms of the Wynn family.

OK, this is what we've got to look out for now

-if we find anything like this we know where to bring it.

-Yes, exactly.

The three eagles of Owain Gwynedd and the three lions of King Cynan.

Was the leather panelling part of the package out of the crate as well?

Yes, everything came back except the movable furniture.

So even the window shutters came back.

This leather frieze up here is actually quite important.

When it came back from America, it was completely black.

We took advice from the V&A

and they said the best thing to clean it with is spit.

So we spent six months, I'm afraid, and a lot of spit later,

it now shines but we both ended up with very bad sore throats

-at the end of it.

-What a wonderful tale.

It's a great detective story, isn't it?

Another little piece is that

if William Randolph Hearst hadn't bought this room,

it would have burnt in a fire the following year,

so we're very grateful to him also.

For Judy and Peter, restoring this magnificent Tudor house,

it was essential to preserve its heritage

but for everyday antiques it isn't always a clear-cut decision.

Clearly, there are arguments for and against,

so if you haven't quite made your mind up, maybe we can help.

If you have a teapot and the spout's broken, I wouldn't necessarily

have the spout restored just so you can sell the teapot

because you might find there is an imbalance

between outlay and suitable income.

Restoration is always acceptable.

But you have to mention that it's been done.

The best way of learning the lesson

is to buy a piece that you think is perfect

and you subsequently discover it's restored,

cos you'll never forget that one.

We see all types of restored items on "Flog It!".

For some, the restoration comes as an unwelcome surprise.

In other cases, the objects have been lovingly restored

by the people we meet.

Claire Rawle had the pleasure of the latter

at a valuation day in Hertfordshire.

My husband bought it... We reckon about 20 years ago,

not quite sure about that.

..for scrap at an antique fair for £15.

Then he took it to a local watchmaker man and he said,

"Oh, it's worth repairing,"

so we spent about £350, which seemed an awful lot of money then.

I would be interested in knowing a bit more about it.

It's a lovely thing.

This watch had been very, very sympathetically done.

Basically, the restorer had restored the movement and made it work -

which is what you expect them to do -

but hadn't gone in for lots of polishing and cleaning

and tidying up of the dial and the hands and things,

which spoils it completely.

If you open it up, nice set of hallmarks inside,

which give you the date, 1838.

The thing I really love is when you get into the back

and you open this last cover

and there we have just the back of the movement.

It's beautifully made.

Quite understated, in a way, but you've got this nice,

what they call this "engraved cog" here,

which covers the escapement inside.

Most people that buy watches don't expect them to be working.

They'll either do it themselves or they get it done professionally.

There are very few people that will ask, "Does it work?"

The one thing they will ask is whether it ticks

because that means that the main spring is still working.

So, as long as that still goes, it's got more value.

I think anybody who knows anything about chronometers

will look at that and think, "Wow, yeah, that's really nice.

"That's an interesting piece." £500 to £600.

-Oh, really?

-Yeah.

-Yes. That's wonderful.

The more I look at it, the more I think that it will do very well.

-I think if you put a £500 reserve on it...

-Right, right.

-Fix it.

-Right, right.

-Is that OK?

-Yes, that's fine.

-Estimate 5 to 6.

-Right.

-And, yeah, I think it should go well.

It was lovely that it was in working order.

I think it probably put a little bit on but not a tremendous amount.

It was a good watch anyway.

This is where it gets interesting. This is the beauty of an auction.

-Because anything can happen. We could have a big surprise.

-Hopefully.

There we are, lot 216.

It ought to be close to 500 for this one. 300 bid, thank you, sir.

300 I'm bid, 20... 400 he says.

400 I'm bid. 500 we're bid for it.

At 500. You're going well.

Are you going to finish?

At 500, then, I'm going to have to sell it.

£500.

Thank you very much.

-I'm happy with that £500.

-Yes, it's wonderful.

From £15, it's not bad, is it?

Yes, yes, and you got the money back from the repairs as well

and you had all those years of enjoying it and use.

Absolutely.

I think you need to be very careful

if you're thinking of restoring a pocket watch.

An awful lot of them actually are not worth restoring

because the cost of restoring is totally going to outweigh its value.

Where you've got a nice one, then, yes, obviously,

you want to think about having it restored.

Less called-on for pocket watches,

an area where restoration is more commonly seen

is with Royal Worcester China, which was established in 1751.

Because of the pottery's vast output and the popularity with collectors

of this fragile porcelain, restored pieces often crop up.

Some even have replacement parts.

The trick is, as our own

Worcester-born boy Philip Serrell knows, is spotting it.

I just wanted to know if it was genuine, actually.

-Why do you want to know if it's genuine?

-I don't know.

We bought it from a national exhibition centre and I liked it

because of all the roses. I'm a roses person, a pink person.

And I really fell in love with it

and after I bought it I just wondered if it was genuine.

This is shape number 1286,

and it's called a crown-topped potpourri.

It's got this dot system which started in 1891

and there are 16 dots there,

so we can date this quite precisely to 1907.

It just strikes me as being a little bit odd.

Can you see this is like an ivory

and what we call shot-silk decoration

in those intervals there? And yet there it's totally different.

I have thought that myself, I did notice that.

I just wonder whether it may have been that...

this cover has been a replacement at some point in time.

I think Pat was spot on, really,

and it goes back to this thing about trusting your eyes.

If you look at that, you can see that the rim around the bottom

of the top didn't quite match the rim around the base of the vase.

That should tell you that something perhaps doesn't quite marry up.

So I think she was spot on with her instincts

that top and bottom didn't quite match.

So how much did you pay for it?

We think about 180.

I think it will show you a profit on that,

providing there's no restoration and it's all A-OK, as I said.

I think that my estimate for it would probably be £200 to £400

and put a reserve on it of £200 on the basis that it's not restored.

You know, it looks very crisp around here.

I've had a look and it looks OK, but it's difficult in these lights.

If you're buying a perfect piece for a perfect price, that's fine.

If you're buying a restored piece for a restored price, that's fine.

What you don't want to be doing

is buying a restored piece for a perfect price.

And restoration can be that good that, you know,

a dealer or an auctioneer just might not spot it.

As you can imagine,

we were all intrigued to see what the saleroom made of Pat's vase.

-I've been all over this, top to toe. It's absolutely sound.

-Right.

-There is not a problem at all.

-Is the cover right for the pot?

-That's where we fall down.

-OK.

No, it is what we've termed in the catalogue an "associated cover".

-It has a marginal effect on the price.

-OK.

But not phenomenal because, at the end of the day,

these things are rare, these are very expensive.

And, also, for anyone out there,

if you've got a smashed pot and got the cover,

don't sling it out, because people are desperate to buy the covers.

-These are often the first things that get broken.

-Yeah.

-We're going to sell.

-Going to sell it.

-Oh, yeah.

It's just that cover that's just going to hold it back.

But did the Royal Worcester collectors agree?

I open at £450.

-Yes!

-£450 on a maiden bid clears everybody else.

I've got 450 on my right. Do I hear 460 in the room?

It's on a commission bid, then. Opening and closing at £450.

All sure, all done?

-Bang, hammer's gone down.

-Short and sweet.

-Short and sweet, yeah. £450.

Great result. Top end of Philip's estimate.

Although the lid wasn't a perfect match,

the fragile nature of Royal Worcester

means associated covers are more accepted by collectors.

However, if you want to avoid a restored piece,

Philip has a top tip.

If you go to an antique fair or you go to an auction room

and you see people picking up a piece of porcelain and biting it,

they're checking for restoration.

Now, if a pot has been restored and you bite into it,

it's just like biting into soap

and you almost feel like it's going to come away in your mouth.

If you bite onto a piece that's not been restored,

it's like biting on a piece of glass, it's really quite hard.

That's a way of looking for restoration.

But, of course, in the world of ceramics,

other big names, like Moorcroft,

also have a low threshold for bumps and scrapes.

The joy of Moorcroft is it's fairly easy to restore,

because a lot of the ground colours are very plain.

So, you can get a big chunk out and it's just blue.

So, to restore a lot of Moorcroft is very easy

and the financial benefits are really good.

Easily disguised restoration, though, can come as a bit of a shock,

as Jim and Betty found out in 2010 with their Moorcroft trinket dish.

Thank you so much for bringing this little trinket dish along.

Now, you must know a little bit about it if you watched Flog It!

-I think it might be 1930s.

-Absolutely spot-on.

And do you know the name of the pattern?

-Not really.

-Testing!

-Is it Mushroom, or...?

-No, that's Claremont. Mushroom is Claremont.

-Right.

-This is Hazeldene.

-Oh, Hazeldene, yes.

-It's very similar.

If we turn it over, there we've got the "Made In England",

which tells you it's made after 1925.

"Potter to HM the Queen".

That would have been Queen Mary.

And the W Moorcroft facsimile signature there.

So a little dish that is very sought-after at auction.

I love this Hazeldene pattern,

especially with the sunset red ground to it.

Ooh.

I've got a bit of bad news for you.

-It's been restored at some stage.

-Oh.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it has been done.

It looks like sort of 15-, 20-year-old restoration.

It's starting to show through.

When restoration's done, when it's brand-new,

it's very difficult to tell.

The restoration fades and it doesn't last,

so you might think you've restored something

and spent £100 restoring it for ever.

It's not the case.

The restoration will come back and it will change in time.

So, you'll have to do it again.

-Is it a family piece?

-No.

-Where did you find that?

-Well, where did we pick that up, Jim?

-A car-boot sale.

-How much did you pay for it?

£2. £2.

Well, for £2, you know, it's still a great buy at £2.

If it had been perfect,

I think your £2 would have transformed into £200.

With the restoration, you've still made a really good investment,

because I still think it's going to make 60-100.

-Brilliant, isn't it?

-That still all right, isn't it?

-That more than I thought.

-It's great.

I just thought it's just a wee dish.

Well, it is a wee dish, but it's a great wee dish.

If you've got a rare piece of Moorcroft

and you can't afford 5,000 for the perfect one,

you can still afford 2,000 and get one that's damaged.

But because Moorcroft is so easy to restore, it will look fabulous.

And the potential to make restored Moorcroft look as good as new

might explain what unfolded in the saleroom.

A very nice Moorcroft flambe design circular pin tray.

And I've two very close bids.

And I'm started at £210.

210. 210. 210.

210.

220.

240.

260. 280.

300.

320.

20 against you.

340.

360.

-360.

-380.

400.

420.

440.

-440. Anyone else want in at £440?

-£440, Betty!

Selling on the telephone at £440.

-Well, who'd have believed that?

-Well done, James.

-£440.

Hey, we keep saying it's a roller-coaster ride of emotions

here in the auction room, don't we?

You don't know what's going to happen.

We keep saying it's not an exact science.

Damaged - yes, it was.

But did the bidders on the phone care? Clearly not.

When two people really want something,

you can't predict the result.

Now, in 2012, an elderly woman in Spain took the art world by storm

when she popped into her local church

and tried to restore a century-old fresco.

That was an obvious case of what not to do.

But botched job aside,

even professional restoration of artwork can be controversial.

In Brian and Maria's case, the jury's still out.

-It was passed to my father from his uncle.

-Right.

So it's been in the family quite a few years.

Father passed away in October.

Before that, it was always his wish to take the family abroad.

So it's kind of passing the legacy down, really,

to try and probably use it as our leverage to, hopefully, get abroad.

Oh, that's a lovely thing to do.

-I'm sure he'd have approved of that.

-Yes, he would have done.

-Yeah.

Just up until recently, you couldn't really see much of the picture

and we had it restored around Christmas time

so you can actually see the detail.

You can even virtually see the people at the front of the boat.

My first thought was, if they have so recently

spent good money on having it restored,

is there a hope, therefore,

that they can reclaim that

over and above what the value of the picture is?

And, sometimes, people are caught out

by believing that every time they spend

on some restoration or conservation,

it will automatically add value to the hammer price

in the case of the auction - that isn't always the case.

I would say, as a general rule, I'd normally advise against that.

If you're going to sell something, what people do like to see generally

is something that looks as though

-it's been hanging on a fireplace for 20 years.

-Right.

I started on a negative, but just that would be the general advice.

Having said that, it does, as you say,

reveal what a strong image that is.

And walking towards it, as I did, and seeing it on the easel,

it really stands out as being a lovely composition.

It was a good image, lots of interest, well placed on the canvas.

So it was a lovely painting in its own right.

Now, the signature is not an easy one to read.

You don't know anything about the artist at all?

-Nothing at all.

-Nothing at all.

I think it's by one of the Grebes, one of the Grebe family.

And, certainly, stylistically,

it looks very much late 19th-, early 20th-century Dutch School.

It is very much of that ilk.

Standing where I'm standing now, I can see the restoration.

-I can see this patch, particularly, here.

-Right.

I'm not meaning to be too negative about it,

-just realistic about it.

-Yeah.

It was quite a textured finish to the artwork.

But the restoration interrupted that.

It looked wrong, it looked thicker and it looked wrong,

and it had a sort of sheen to it

which was different to the rest of the painting.

I think we have to be realistic.

I think we've got to look at it as being 200-400, 300-500.

It may well be that I'm being too pessimistic about it.

But if you're happy to kind of bracket it somewhere in that region,

and I think then you've got sort of your holiday almost booked.

-And then anything else is a bonus.

-On top of that, yeah, sure.

-Does that make sense?

-Yeah.

-Yes, yes, yes.

Having already spent £300 on restoration,

they needed the painting to make at least the top of that estimate.

So did Brian and Maria get the holiday they wanted?

At 320 on the net. 340.

360, do I see now?

I've got 340 on the net. At 340 in the UK. At 340.

360 in Holland. 380. At 380. At 380 bid.

-It could be going back to Holland.

-At 380.

Keep clicking away. 400. £400 bid. At £400.

At 400. 420 now.

At £400. Net has it at £400.

We'll go to the telephones next, then.

420. 440. 460?

460, anyone, now?

460. At 460. 480.

500? £500, anyone?

500 on the telephone there.

At 500. 550 on the net.

Incredible. There's a battle between the telephone and the internet.

6 on the telephones. At 600 bid.

At 600. 650 now. 650.

700 now, may I say? £700, surely. 700 on the phone.

-Maria! £700.

-750.

800, now, do I see from anyone?

Who's coming in first? At 800.

I have 750, commission bid has it.

800 on the telephones. At 800 bid. At 800.

-And 50 now. Telephone bid coming in...

-Wow!

No? At 850 on the net, then.

1,000, now, do I see?

950 bid. 1,000, surely.

-Colin's working this very well.

-Yes, it's brilliant.

1,000 on the telephone. Any more bids now? 1,100. 12?

Do I see 1,200? I do. 1,200 bid. 13 now.

It's not unlucky, you know...

-Someone's going home with a lot of money.

-Yes.

..unless you don't bid.

1,300 bid. Thank you. 1,300. 1,400 now.

14, do I see? 1,400. 15 now, surely. 15?

1,500, may I say now? You know you need it.

At 1,400, then. At £1,400. We're on the phone.

You're out on the net, you're out in the room. Last call, then.

-£1,400.

-Selling at £1,400.

-The hammer's gone down. Yes!

-Brilliant.

Your husband had a good eye, didn't he? He liked that.

-He saw the value in that.

-He did like it.

-That is marvellous.

-Thank you.

-Your first auction, £1,400.

I was so excited when there was so much interest about that painting,

because I did like that painting.

It was a very strong, dynamic picture.

I was delighted.

It obviously went to a good home and I'm really pleased.

Well, that exceptional result was due in no small part

to some excellent marketing by the auction room.

The painting of the Grebe

even attracted bidders from its homeland, the Netherlands.

Now, the question is, would Brian and Maria's painting

have fetched even more money if it hadn't been restored?

Well, we'll never know.

Now, here are a few things to consider

if you are thinking about restoration.

The decision on whether to restore often comes down to taste.

If you're keeping a piece, it needs to be aesthetically pleasing to you.

And, sometimes, that means conservation is necessary.

But bear in mind, restoration is not a cheap job.

It's an investment in its own right.

And if you're planning to sell, think carefully.

Because that outlay won't necessarily be returned at the auction.

Fortunately, the Grebe painting hit the market at the right time

and attracted international interest...

..which meant Brian and Maria got that long-planned holiday.

They took the whole family to Ibiza and had a fantastic time.

And that's what I call a result.

Well, that's it for today's show. I hope you've enjoyed it.

So, go on, get out there, get buying and have some fun with antiques,

and join us again soon for more Trade Secrets.