Eastern - Part 2 Flog It: Trade Secrets

It's been well over ten years now since "Flog It!" first set up shop

and, during that time, you've come to trust us to value

and sell your unwanted antiques and collectables.

APPLAUSE £1,100. Put it there.

-Well done...

-Thank you, thank you.

-Oh, my...

-Absolutely wonderful.

-Ah.

And during that time, the variety of things

you've brought in to show us has been absolutely astonishing,

and it's not easy to put a price on them all,

but some things we know are guaranteed to sell

and this is where YOU can find out more.

Welcome to Trade Secrets.

Artefacts from China and Japan

have always held a particular fascination for Europeans.

It's a market that can be a minefield for budding collectors.

But items from those lands regularly turn up at our valuation days,

so today, we're exploring all things Eastern.

Coming up, a Japanese sculpture provokes mixed reactions.

I'm not fond of it at all, to be honest with you.

The thing with something like this,

the auction house will love it.

-Hammer's gone down.

-Wonderful.

-Isn't that good news?

-Yes, lovely.

Big smiles all round.

We learn how to sniff out Chinese fakes.

I have to be honest,

I looked at it and I thought, don't want to look at that, that's a fake.

All the scratches and all the marks are telltale signs of wear.

But...it is a minefield.

And we get a glint of just how lucrative the Oriental market can be.

At 3,600...

Yes, that hammer's gone down. Well done.

'Low-end collectors in China'

are millionaires.

The top-end collectors are billionaires.

Antiques from China are always popular,

but its smaller neighbour is catching up.

Japan came late to the worldwide antiques trade

because it didn't open up its ports to foreigners

until the mid-19th century.

You've brought in this really exquisite item.

What a lovely find.

Karen, you've really made my day today,

bringing this little collection along.

Because of the interest in the Chinese market,

it's pulling the Japanese items up as well.

-Got to be so happy with that.

-I am. Very happy with that.

With the wealth that the Chinese are creating,

they're buying up Japanese works, because they look so similar

and a lot of the symbolism you see in a Japanese...

means something to the Chinese anyway.

£1,100. Put it there.

There's a great dissemination between Japanese and Chinese taste.

The Japanese will copy the Chinese, the Chinese will copy the Japanese,

so you just have to look at the individual items

and sometimes get it right and sometimes get it wrong.

Today, there's a wealth of Japanese treasures to choose from,

like the one Mark discovered in Cardiff in 2012,

brought along by sisters, Ulwyn and Lynne.

Where on earth did you get it from?

Well, my husband inherited it in the year 2000

and it was from an uncle of his.

And his wife, when she was alive, was in the antique business.

-Was she?

-Yes.

-Now, this was made during the Meiji period,

so between 1868 and 1912.

It was so humorous, the little crushed...

figure underneath the barrel and these little Japanese characters.

It just screamed the Meiji period in Japan,

and beautiful quality.

To me, it looks like this tradesman

is being attacked by these little gargoyles.

-Yes.

-I think he's throwing salt or something.

Down here, we've got somebody rubbing their eyes,

-so maybe some of the salt has gone into their eyes.

-Yes.

This one is protecting himself with a sort of bowl of...

-I don't know, eels or something.

-Yes.

-And they're all carved ivory.

The Japanese carvers, of course, used many materials.

They used wood, they used bamboo, they used silver.

Ivory, I think, lent itself to carving these types of figures,

because it was in plentiful supply and they have that lovely,

creamy, soapy feel that age has added to the ivory.

It's wonderful, isn't it? And where does it live at home?

-Have you had it out on display?

-No, I haven't.

It's been wrapped in tissue paper

and then bubble wrap in a box in the bottom of the wardrobe.

-Well, that's not very nice, is it?

-I know, it's not.

I just, you know, I'm not fond of it at all, to be honest with you.

The thing with something like this,

the auction house will love it.

-Yes.

-Because it's fresh to the market, it's quality

and there's a big collectors market for it, I'm sure.

So if we put it in at 500 to 700 with a 500 fixed reserve...

-Yes.

-..I think they'll come out of the woodwork, if you use the pun.

-Yes.

-'This has obviously been in private hands for many years,'

so when it came to the market,

it really excited both the collectors and dealers.

720, 750.

780, 800.

-Great.

-820, 850.

-880, 900...

-It's you. It's very good, isn't it?

-Yes.

'It flew past the top estimate and just kept going.'

And 50, 1,200. And 50. 1,300.

-And 50...

-Is this exciting enough?

-Yes, it is. Very much so.

With me at £1,500.

1,550 on the net.

Are we all out on the telephones and in the room?

And £1,530.

-Thank you.

-Hammer's gone down.

-Wonderful.

-Isn't that good news?

-Yes, lovely...

-Big smiles all round.

There was a lot going on there.

I mean, you had three, four, five, six figures or so.

And the whole humorous nature of it

and to collectors and to dealers, I mean,

that just would've floated their boat.

In fact, it DID float their boat.

There is a huge collecting market for Japanese items,

but you do have to go for quality.

190. 200...

So, how do you spot a quality piece of Japanese carving?

Well, I know just the man to ask.

Auctioneer Nick Hall is a regular on "Flog It!"

and his auction room has been the scene of some high drama

over the years.

He's a man who knows quality when he sees it.

So who better to let you in on some trade secrets?

One of the questions I'm asked an awful lot

is what makes an object valuable?

Is it the rarity, the material it's made from, the quality?

Or the author of the object?

Well, in this instance, and here we're talking about

oriental works of art, it's the quality, the craftsmanship.

Now, on the face of it, they're very similar objects,

they're both Japanese, they both date from the late Meiji period,

1900, 1910.

They're both carved from ivory

and they're both what we call okimono,

which are just freestanding, decorative ornaments

that serve no purpose,

so you'd have thought on the face of it,

they should have very similar values.

But you need to look closely.

The little group of fishermen at the front,

when you get very close, the carving actually is quite bland.

If you look at the features on the hands and the face,

the feet, there's not a lot of detail there.

But you get closer, closer still,

and you look at the fruit picker behind,

you can see the veins in the leaf hanging down at the front here,

you can even see the feathers on the quail perched on the top there

and the features on the elderly chap's face there,

the lines from all that toil and labour,

and it's little touches and detail like that

that collectors of Japanese carvings go wild for.

And that's what pushes the price up.

So what are they worth?

Nice little group at the front, 100 years old, plainly carved,

you could buy that for probably £100,

whereas the fruit picker at the back

with all that fine quality detailing,

that's going to be nearer £1,000.

So look closely and then you will know exactly

the value of the object you're dealing with.

Worth remembering.

The Japanese are world-renowned for their superior carving.

Another area in which they excel is lacquer work,

an intricate and elaborate technique.

Claire Rawle found a typical example in Hertfordshire.

And you've bought such a pretty item in.

A Japanese lacquer, but tell me a bit about it.

How did you come by it?

It was tucked away in one of the boxes at home.

We've got a whole collection of items from my dad,

who was an avid collector for antiques -

Japanese items, especially.

So we've got, on the essence, a sort of lacquer box.

In actual fact, it's a card case, isn't it, to put visiting cards in?

-Correct.

-And it was made

latter part of the 19th century,

for exports to be sold in this country,

used as a European item...

-Very interesting.

-..and they made the most beautiful lacquer work.

Well, it's a varnish, the Chinese discovered it

and used it to really protect items initially,

so it's a varnish that's built up in layers

and then they are very often carved back through the layers

to decorate it, or just build up the decoration and then gild it finely.

It's very intricate art and you've got this wonderful eagle,

very typical Japanese emblem, that. And then on the back,

we have, which is always a giveaway if it's Japanese,

you always have Mount Fuji.

The most traditional emblem you'll see on Japanese works of art

is Mount Fuji.

The summit was always believed to be... Well, still is, to be sacred,

and in fact, ladies were not allowed up on the summit

until the Meiji period, which is the late 19th century.

And then again pagodas. Very, very typical. It's lovely.

You've got a bit of general wear, which you would expect.

The eagle's a bit rubbed. It's been used.

You hold it in your hand, that's fine.

So it's actually in very nice condition.

There are some items that you will accept damage on.

The trouble sometimes with a lacquered item, for instance,

it's very, very difficult to repair because

it's difficult to restore it without making it look brand-new again.

-I think, really, an estimate of 150-200.

-Oh, lovely.

It's just such a pretty item that somebody out there

is going to love it.

What about that Meiji period box?

There it is with the gilt decoration to it.

£150 for a fine little box.

Yes or no, sir? 80, OK. Are you 90 for the box?

100 for the box.

-Oh, come on, a bit more.

-10 in the middle. 120 and 30 and 40 and 50...

-Here we go.

-£150 for the box, then. 150 I have.

At £150 I'm going to sell.

-GAVEL BANGS

-Thank you.

-Great result anyway.

That was good.

'It wasn't a bad price for what it was'

but I think maybe if it had been Chinese,

there would have been quite a different price, yeah.

DRUMMING

On "Flog It!" we're used to seeing Japanese ivories and ceramics,

but you may be surprised by this Japanese export

of a very different kind.

It's taiko drumming, which I tried my hand at in 2011.

The drums used for taiko are traditional instruments in Japan

and they've been heard for centuries.

It's believed they were first used by the military.

THEY CHANT

Modern taiko drumming like this

was developed in the 1950s by Japanese musician Daihachi Oguchi.

Now, many of you may know, at one stage in my life

I was a professional drummer. Many moons ago.

So I'm absolutely delighted to come here today to the Barnfield Theatre

in Exeter to pick up the sticks once again, albeit with a difference.

I'm here to meet Jonathan Kirby,

one of the first people to bring taiko drumming to the UK.

I know a little bit about drumming, but nothing about taiko,

so explain a little bit further.

We talk about four principles when we play taiko.

Attitude, so the way you approach it,

your kata, which is a martial arts term.

That means your stance, the way you stand,

the way you project your performance art.

-Technique is about doing simple things well.

-Yes.

And then we move on to ki, which is the energy,

and that's what makes it so exciting.

-That's what you need to channel.

-Get the breathing right, get focused.

So, how do you go about converting a kit drummer?

We introduce you to one of our group members.

My son, Oliver, is a member of the main performing group.

-Thanks for helping us out today, Oliver.

-No problem.

-Where do we start?

-We can show you the ropes,

introduce you to some of our fundamentals and have a little go.

Come on, then. I'm quite excited about this.

First of all, take your left leg and plant it behind the left corner of the drum,

-and then right leg going behind...

-This is to get your body weight down?

Yeah, and you've got a nice foundation to work off.

OK, then the arms go out in front.

-Space under the armpits...

-Open your diaphragm.

-Yep, open your body out.

-So you can breathe.

And even just this, a group of people doing this,

is a performance in itself.

-It's quite ceremonial, isn't it?

-Absolutely.

It's a very powerful feeling, just standing here knowing that you're

going to hit this in a moment and it's going to be really loud.

-Exactly, and that feeling of tension...

-Suspense.

It goes to the audience as well.

OK, so the first beat that we're going to play is called the dongo.

It's a swung base rhythm and it sounds...

-HE BEATS DRUM

-Dong-o, dong-o, dong-o...

There you go. Exactly.

I wonder if you're up to the challenge of playing a little piece

-with myself and Jonathan.

-OK, come on. Get Dad on. Here he is.

-The master.

-Oh.

What are we doing?

-Is this a traditional song or one of your songs?

-It's one of mine.

We'll pay a piece called Congruenza, an extract from it.

It will feature Oliver playing a couple of melodies,

as we call them, on that side. I'll play a couple this side

and we'll have a little bit at the end,

-and you'll play the same as Oliver or me throughout.

-OK.

Here we go.

MORE SOFTLY

THEY GET LOUDER

Absolutely fabulous. HE LAUGHS

When it comes to Oriental antiques, China is the undisputed emperor.

20 years ago, Japanese pieces were FAR more valuable,

far more saleable than Chinese.

Today, it has reversed so much.

-GAVEL BANGS Brilliant.

-Definitely very happy.

That is a good result, isn't it?

I think mainly because the Chinese themselves are buying them back.

There's great wealth out there

and for a long time, they were denied their culture.

They were denied owning items that showed history.

-GAVEL BANGS

-Sold.

-£980!

-That is wonderful, Paul.

-What a lovely surprise.

-I can't believe...

-I'm tingling.

Chairman Mao put forward a law to say that

if you were caught with items from the imperial past,

you were seen as being disloyal to the Communist doctrine,

so people buried things in their back garden, they destroyed them, they were burnt, they were smashed,

and now, of course, China is the economic superpower.

The hammer's up. We're selling at 3,300.

THEY LAUGH £3,300!

Much of China's surviving artistic heritage is here in Europe,

but it isn't all fine antiques.

There are items that reflect the country's social history too.

Angela, I have never, ever seen shoes like this before

and I think they are absolutely incredible.

These are Chinese women's shoes,

-not dolls' shoes, women's shoes.

-Yes.

I must admit, I don't think I've ever seen Chinese shoes before

coming into a "Flog It!" valuation day.

They are a bit unusual, a bit of a curio,

and something that I don't know if I'd like to handle again.

Young girls, when they were about four years of age,

their mothers used to bind back their toes with cotton...

..so that they had small feet, cos they were considered to be pretty.

And those are minute.

The standard size of foot was considered to be three inches.

Where on earth did you get these from?

Well, my in-laws had lived out East from the mid '30s.

They certainly date from the 20th century.

This idea of binding children's feet was actually outlawed in 1911,

-but it still went on a lot longer than that.

-Yeah.

As objects, aside from that, whether it's right or wrong,

these are absolutely beautiful.

I think they are silk, with this wonderful embroidery.

It's really hard to value something that you've never seen before,

something that you've never had any experience with.

'A lot of it comes down to whether we've seen similar items

'like that sell at auction, and how much they have gone for before.'

I would suggest probably putting a reserve on of £50,

cos I certainly don't think they should go

for anything less than that,

and probably an estimate on of about £80-£120.

When you don't quite know

whether it's going to make into the hundreds

or whether it's going to go for under £100...

So you put £80-£120 on it.

That's my secret.

Right, lot 386 here. Can I say £80 away?

£50 away? £30 I'm bid. At £30 the bid.

I'll take 5 to get on. At £30 the bid.

35. At 35. 40?

-40. At £40. 45...

-This is interesting.

50. At £50 on the phone. At £50, the bid. I'll take 5 now.

-At £50, are we all done? At £50...

-GAVEL BANGS

Yes, they've gone! Only just, though.

-They went right on the reserve.

-Yes.

-Happy?

-Yes, I'm happy.

-It's gone.

It's one of those things that you either like or you don't like,

so I just think the right people weren't there on the day.

But one area that's ever popular and breaking all records

is something the Chinese have been producing for centuries,

and the clue is in the name - china.

Lynette and Caroline, when I was a boy,

I had all my goldfish in the pond.

Some people have them in little bowls,

but if you're in 18th-century China,

this is what you would have used - a fishbowl.

-It's a fishbowl?

-A fishbowl.

-I had no idea that's what it was.

-Really?

I thought it was a bidet.

Well, you can wash your bottom in it if you like,

but I really don't think the fish would approve.

I have to be honest, when I first saw this, I looked at it

and I thought, "Don't want to look at that. That's a fake,"

and I dismissed it completely.

The more valuable a subject area becomes...

..the more attention is spent on trying to fake those items.

The world record for a piece of art other than a painting

was a Chinese porcelain vase selling for £53 million.

Sold!

So when you get something making that,

imagine how many people there are trying to fake it,

and the biggest difficulty we have today

is telling whether it's right or wrong.

So how could you tell that it was...?

The first clue was when you said, "I've had it for 40 years."

Then I thought, "Hm. They've only been making these fakes

"in the last 20 or 30, so let's have another look."

And then there are signs, when you start to look.

The scratching in the glaze, the chips around the edge here

and I think it's right. I think it's right.

All the scratches and all the marks are telltale signs of wear,

but it is a minefield, and the fakers can make things

that we can only dream about.

They will take something and put keys in the bottom of the bowl

and put it on a thing that just shakes keys,

so it makes little scratch marks.

They have these pushers and rubbers to actually wear the piece out.

It lived outside and I took a pottery class,

and they gave me some pottery magazines to just inspire me,

and that's when I saw this bowl and I went,

"Well, Lord, it's got the same pattern around it."

-How extraordinary.

-That's when I brought it inside the house.

-So pottery classes have saved it.

-It saved it, yes.

Estimate, let's put £800-£1,200.

Reserve - £800.

But, you know, if it doesn't sell, you're not having it back.

SHE GASPS

James was confident that the bowl was the genuine article,

but would the bidders agree?

And I've got to start this at 1,200. 1,400, 1,600,

1,800. 2,000, 2,200, 2,400,

2,600, 2,800. 3,000 I am bid on commission.

-At £3,000.

-What?

-3,000.

At 3,200. At 3,200 in the room.

All three bidders are out at 3,200 bid.

-3,200.

-..on the phone now. I have you at 3,200.

Caroline...

At 3,200. All done at 3,200...

3,400. On the telephone at 3,400.

3,400. 3,600. At 3,600 here.

At 3,600 now bid.

At 3,600, the hammer's up. At £3,600 now.

All done? You're out at the back. At 3,600...

-Quick if you do.

-£3,600.

At 3,600...

-Yes! The hammer has gone down. Well done. Well done, you.

-Fantastic.

Gosh!

We always knew it was going to make above what James had suggested

as a printed estimate, but I think he probably had an inkling as well.

I just felt a bit of an idiot, but that's nothing new.

I know that feeling quite readily.

But to be fair to James,

at the time of the sale, it was a fast-moving market.

It was a time when...

In January, it would have made £1,000.

In June, it would have made £3,000.

If we'd sold it six months later, it might have made £6,000. Who knows?

The market has now stabilised.

I think if you're thinking of collecting Japanese or Chinese,

it's quite a dangerous area.

We're all caught out all the time and I think if you're going to

venture into that field, unless you really know your stuff, take advice.

The low-end collectors in China are millionaires.

The top-end collectors are billionaires,

so within that, there's tremendous scope

for all sorts of nonsense and skulduggery to go on.

So, there we go.

It's a minefield,

but it's one that I would be very careful about entering.

One thing that I would not be collecting at the moment

is Chinese porcelain.

So here are a few things to think about

if you're buying antiques from the Far East.

Japan is a safer bet than China right now, as prices are lower.

There are fewer fakes and the quality

and the range of items is extraordinary.

But more than anything, watch out for fakes. Provenance is everything.

It provides proof of age and history.

If Chinese ceramics scare the life out of you,

honest curios like the shoes can be bought at a snip

and are a great starting point for a budding collector.

At our valuation days, we see thousands of people,

many with fascinating stories to tell.

We got to hear Sandra's when she brought along some ivory pieces

she'd inherited from her father, who lived in Hong Kong.

We have two ivory plaques and we have an ivory scent bottle.

And these were made around 1880 to 1900.

What makes them unusual is the colouring.

My father was fascinated by what we called curios.

He would go down the little alleyways in Hong Kong

and he loved finding bargains and buying exquisite craftsmanship.

But in 1941, during the Second World War,

Hong Kong was invaded by the Japanese,

and Sandra's father was taken prisoner.

-TV:

-In this battle, 11,000 British soldiers are taken prisoner.

When Hong Kong fell, my father was in a prisoner of war camp

with the troops, so my mother and father and my sister were separated.

After three years, the Americans liberated the POWs,

but in the ensuing chaos, it was another four months

before the family was reunited.

Sandra's father's journey took him home via Canada,

and Sandra hoped selling the ivory pieces she inherited from him

would enable her to retrace his steps.

400-600 for the pair here.

-The bottle, 1,000-1,500.

-Gosh.

I think you have timed it to perfection

and I think we're going to have a surprise in the auction room.

It was great impetus to do what I've always wanted to do,

which was part of the journey that my father did

after his release, and that was from Vancouver through the Rockies,

because he'd kept a diary and he'd said

when they travelled through the Rockies how beautiful

the snow-capped mountains were, the lovely autumn colours.

It always made me want to go and see it for myself and...

..that was it. I could feel my father saying,

"Yes, go. Go for it. Do it."

Carved and stained ivory...

For the auction, Sandra was joined by her sister

and first under the hammer were the ivory plaques.

And we'll bypass the estimate and start these at...

-1,000. 1,200.

-What?!

-1,400. 1,600...

James had said that it might fly.

At 3,600, the bid's here and selling then at 3,600. All done?

And the hammer's going down. Wow.

I told you to come to "Flog It!"

And you've got the scent bottle now.

1,200. 1,300. 1,400,

1,500. 1,600. 1,700...

I think it became rather unreal.

At 2,400 - it's in the room, then, and selling.

I just remember my heart going bang, bang, bang, bang...

GAVEL BANGS Have you just added that up

-in your head?

-No.

-Well, I have

-and it is a whopping £6,000.

-Wow.

The money was more than enough to enable Sandra and her husband

to make the journey to Canada.

We actually took a boat ride to Vancouver Island

and it was when we were on the boat and actually in the harbour,

I really felt, wow, this is similar to what my father would have felt,

coming in on a big liner.

So that was very special, to be able to go to where my father had been.

Well, I'm so glad the sale of those lovely things meant that Sandra

could retrace some of her father's footsteps.

Now, if you've got anything you want to sell,

bring it along to one of our valuation days.

Well, that's it for today. I hope you have enjoyed the show.

Join us again soon for more trade secrets.