When Clare Grogan Met John Gordon Sinclair ArtWorks Scotland

Back in the '80s,

one film changed the landscape of film production in Scotland.

It introduced a curious, gangly, endearingly teenage boy

to a smart, sassy, determined young girl.

Hello, Gregory. What you up to?

When John Gordon Sinclair and Clare Grogan

were plucked from obscurity to star in Gregory's Girl,

cinematic history was made.

I want a date.

Since then, they've embraced pop careers,

appeared on stage and screen,

and launched themselves as authors.

It's been a busy 30 years since they spent a heady summer

filming iconic scenes in Cumbernauld in 1980.

We took them back to the school where it all began.

Will they still have anything to say to each other?

How you doing?

-You were brilliant!

-I was.

This is what happened when Clare Grogan

met John Gordon Sinclair.

John Gordon Sinclair's portrayal of the innocent, captivating Gregory

charmed the nation.

He's back in Glasgow, the city he grew up in.

Gordon, as his family know him,

joined Glasgow Youth Theatre as a teenager,

so he could hang out with his mates.

Here, he caught the eye of director Bill Forsyth.

I'll be on the telly. Ma maw'll see me! Hi, Mum!

Within the Youth Theatre, I don't think anyone...

really had any great ambitions of being an actor.

It was more about having your own wee gang of people,

and they all went to the pub afterwards for a drink.

And I thought, "If this is what acting's all about,

"make mine a double. I'm in."

The character of Gregory began to emerge in Youth Theatre sketches

and eventually, Bill Forsyth made Gordon the offer of a lifetime.

It was one kind of, like, rainy Monday night,

he showed up at my door,

and I think I kept him standing there for about ten minutes,

asking him questions. "What are you doing here? What's going on?"

He said, "I've been to London and I've got the money now to do Gregory's Girl,

"and I wondered if you would play Gregory."

And I was working as an apprentice electrician at the time,

so my first thought was, you know,

"I'm going to have to take time off work, you'll need to pay me."

Good afternoon...

So, the lead role was in the bag,

but who would play the elusive Gregory's Girl?

I was working as a waitress, not in a cocktail bar,

but in the Spaghetti Factory on Gibson Street, Glasgow.

Bill was quite a regular customer and he said,

"I'd really like to talk to you about a film."

And I said, "Oh, really? Well, interesting, what...?

"What kind of film exactly are we talking about?"

I mean, I had no intention of giving him my phone number at all,

and then, about six months later,

the manageress of the Spaghetti Factory said to me one day,

"Oh, listen, Bill Forsyth's been in touch,

and it's all happening and he really does want you to be in his film."

Of course, none of us had any idea what we were getting ourselves into.

Gordon and Clare first met at Pollock House in Glasgow,

when Bill introduced them for an early production meeting.

We got together just to read one of the scenes from the film,

and Bill sat watching us

and then Clare was a kind of exotic creature to me, you know.

She was sort of a West End trendy.

And then I turned up and I saw Gordon

and he seemed like the tallest person in the whole world to me,

AND he was wearing flares!

She was sort of outwith my realm of experience.

All I could think was,

"What am I going to do about this boy's sense of style?"

I know where all the skeletons are buried.

I had no idea, though, on that day,

that I was going to make a lifelong friend.

Now, the pair are going back to school,

heading to Abronhill High School, the everyday Cumbernauld high

that formed the backdrop to Gregory's Girl.

-Well, hello!

-Hello.

-How you doing?

-I'm good, thanks.

I thought you were getting your hair done?

At least I've got some!

-Do you know where you're going?

-No.

When Clare and Gordon first walked these corridors,

Scotland had little indigenous film industry to speak of.

Gregory's Girl was a low budget, but hugely successful,

attempt to change that.

Bill Forsyth cast unknown, amateur actors

and locals in leading roles.

First of all, he didn't want to...

He didn't want to use a real actors,

which is why...how Gregory's Girl came around in the first place,

because he wanted to get to know a bunch of kids that were interested in acting

and then kind of base something loosely around them.

Hey, watch the jacket!

I have to wet, wash and polish 84 windows for this.

He didn't know how to work with real actors.

You know, so he wanted to get some experience of that.

You had a sort of established relationship with Bill

before you even got to the first day filming.

I mean, how well did you know him at that point?

Cos I always felt like you already were pals.

-Well, we all knew him from the Youth Theatre...

-Yeah.

..because he came on tour with us and drove the van for us

and we all used to shout at him across the street,

"Look, there's that internationally famous film director!"

But kidding on, you know.

We didn't realise that that was, you know,

a kind of portent of what was going to happen.

But his style of observation and stuff like that...

Bill can take something that's really ordinary and make it funny

and make it kind of exceptional.

Off you go, you small boys.

Gregory's Girl put an authentic version of Scotland on the big screen,

nailing the accent and the banter beautifully.

Just keep the doughnuts coming, Steve.

We're on the gravy train, but what the public says is,

"He's off on the marzipans."

Its naturalistic acting, tales of first love, football

and the acutely observed pains of teenage angst

resonated the world over.

-Just kick at it in future, it'll be much quicker.

-Good idea!

Great idea! Do that the next time, eh?

The thing about it...

The way it shows Scotland, I think, was very much of its time.

Because I think kids nowadays, of that age,

are much more sophisticated, really.

You know, I disagree a wee bit,

because I think the absolute cleverness of Gregory's Girl

was the massive role reversal thing that went on in it.

There's a girl in the football team.

Well, yes and no.

-Yes and no?

-Yes.

What do you mean?

Well, we could have a girl in the football team, if we wanted one.

Do we want one?

People talk about it as a sort of benchmark of, like,

of tone of how they want their film to be.

And actually, it's only Bill Forsyth that can do that.

I think so too.

-If you want your film to be like that, get Bill...

-Get Bill to do it.

The film's fledgling stars had no idea

what they were letting themselves in for,

and soon found themselves on a transatlantic promotional tour.

We were just so naive, really. We did a tour of...

It was the whole of America, really, wasn't it?

We started on the East Coast and kind of zigzagged the whole way across.

Yeah, it was a massive tour, and we were interviewed breakfast...

That's right.

..elevenses... We just...

-It was back-to-back interviews, the whole time.

-It was just relentless.

-I don't think we were aware of what was going on.

-No.

-Limos everywhere...

-Yeah, that's right.

"The young stars of Gregory's Girl..."

We were always like this... "Oh, us?!"

"Oh, we're the young stars?!"

And then we got invited to go along to the Golden Globes,

to meet the committee of the Golden Globes, and we said no.

We said, "Do you know what? We're exhausted...

"..being fabulous.

"We're having our day off."

I don't think I knew what the Golden Globes were.

-I don't think I did either.

-I hadn't a clue.

Was it not your mum that was in New York

and she tried to get into a restaurant and they said,

-"Oh, I'm sorry, it's full."

-Was this in Martin Scorsese...?

Martin Scorsese's place. And she said, "Oh, my daughter's in films,

and she did this film Gregory's Girl," and he went,

"Hey, that's Marty's favourite film." You know?

My mum, my Aunt Emma and my Aunt Betty.

I was actually with them at the time, and they were going,

"Clare's in films."

And I was like, "Shut up! Stop!"

But we got our table.

The pressure was on after such a runaway hit,

and the big question was what to do next.

Really?

-SHE SNEEZES

-Just like that.

I can remember feeling a bit bereft when the film finished,

because I didn't know what was next,

I didn't quite know how I was going to keep it going

and it had a wee taste of it and I knew I wanted it to keep going.

The hard part of it was, there was no-one to talk to about it. You know?

It was really weird not having someone you could phone up and say,

"Listen, I've just done a movie, right? It's just finished,

"I'm feeling a bit upset, what is it you do again?"

-That was pretty... That was quite tough.

-Yeah.

Gregory's Girl changed lives, and suddenly,

making films in and about Scotland was cutting-edge.

In 1983, Gordon zipped around on his motorbike

for Bill Forsyth's award-winning Local Hero,

which explored the tension between big business and small communities.

And in 1984,

Clare starred in Forsyth's tale of Glasgow ice cream wars,

Comfort and Joy.

My thought at the time was that it gave people the confidence to say,

"Yeah, we can make films and do movies."

It simply just made people think it was possible.

Did you ever, ever expect, 32 years later,

that you and I would be sitting in this room talking about it?

No. No.

# Happy birthday, happy birthday...

# Happy birthday, happy birthday... #

Clare had been developing a parallel career in music.

Since her schooldays, she'd been in a band with some classmates.

Altered Images had already attracted the attention

of Siouxsie And The Banshees and DJ John Peel.

# Happy, happy birthday in a hot bath

# To those nice, nice nights... #

Their first album, Happy Birthday, came out in September 1981,

and its title track spent three weeks at number two.

Actress and now pop star,

Clare was living every girl's dream.

# If they were me, if they were me

# And I was you, and I was you... #

-Can you remember what you recorded?

-I can't remember...

Clare and Gordon are returning to the studio

where Altered Images made their early recordings.

In the 1980s, Cava Sound was at the heart of the Glasgow music scene,

hosting artist such as Hue And Cry, Simple Minds and Deacon Blue.

Were you signed at the time when we did the film?

Yeah, the summer...

Literally the summer I left school, I got signed to Epic

and made the film.

You know, I didn't tell the record company I was making the film

and I didn't tell Bill that... uh-huh.

Because I didn't actually think

it was particularly relevant to any of them.

I remember the label phoning me up when Gregory's Girl came out

and said, "We've read this press thing..."

-"You've just done a film?"

-Uh-huh.

"Why didn't you tell us?" And I was like,

"Well, I didn't really think you'd be interested."

I think, when you think about it, nowadays,

-you'd probably have a manager...

-..figuring out a strategy.

But no, we were just muddling our way through.

Cos I remember coming to see you at the Bungalow Bar and...

and Kathleen, your sister, was up doing the lights.

But it wasn't like...

It wasn't like a lighting board, it was, like, the light switches.

She was flicking them...

-She was flicking the light switches on and off.

-Yeah.

# See those eyes... #

Altered Images scooped Best New Group at the NME Awards.

Clare was a fashion icon and cover girl.

The band's second album, Pinky Blue, released in 1982,

included the hits I Could Be Happy and See Those Eyes.

# Forget those eyes... #

Their third and final album, Bite,

reunited Gordon and Clare in the music video

for the single Bring Me Closer.

REPORTER: 'The peace is broken,

'as Altered Images fly in with their latest idea for a video.

'James Bond in just three minutes.'

What were we thinking?

'It stars the band and guest actor, John Gordon Sinclair.'

Look at the state of me!

# ..fills me with unease

# Something that you do to me

# Do to me... #

Your manager at the time phoned...

and said, "Do you want to come down and do this?"

"We're looking for a James Bond type character,

"and you seemed the obvious choice?"

Yeah, "and we couldn't find anyone, so we got you."

# Again, and again, I lose myself again... #

And, of course, then, everybody's videos

were getting more and more sort of outrageous and, it was the '80s,

and it was just like you couldn't be over-the-top...

-..enough.

-You couldn't have a daft idea.

There was a big scene going on at that time,

it was kind of around the new romantic thing, but...

We were hanging out with the Spandau boys quite a lot...

Spandau Ballet and, yeah, and Wham, and stuff.

Yeah, yeah, I've been on the dance floor

with George and Andrew and the girls.

I suppose we just took it all a bit for granted at that time, really.

-Yeah.

-I think everyone did, though, you know.

-It didn't seem that unusual, really, did it?

-No, no.

I think, looking back on it, we didn't quite realise how...

what a lucky position we were in.

-It became a bit like that was what life was.

-Yeah.

So, we just expected it to kind of keep going like that.

I think we were quite blase about a lot of it, and it was almost...

It's the naivete of youth, and the arrogance of youth as well.

And we just didn't really question it.

And the danger is, when you start questioning it...

When you start questioning it, and when you take time out.

Because I think when my kids and stuff like that came along,

I didn't really want to...

I wanted to be with them.

I kept reading things about parents that weren't around

when their kids were young and how hard it was to get that back

and I thought, "I don't want to be one of these people,

I want to be one that they say,

"It was great, my dad was around all the time when I was a kid."

-Oh, I know, it's very hard.

-You know?

So, that, in combination with being a bit more selective,

because, there was jobs to do, but you think,

"No, I don't want to be away for six months..."

So, that reflection thing happened a bit later for you, I think,

than it did for me.

I mean, I've often said this to people,

that it is...the being away from home thing

eventually really got to me.

Just being constantly on the move.

It was me and the boys,

and I just got so weary of being in that sort of...

environment,

and meeting people that had a certain expectation of you.

And actually, all you really felt like,

was that wee person from Glasgow.

From the moment I left school, my life was just extraordinary.

I just wanted to come back and be less extraordinary.

You did well.

It's an ongoing dilemma for me.

Oh, I tell you, I struggle with that every day.

I'm starting to run...

to run like hell...

Gordon also had a small taste of the pop world.

He narrated the Scottish football team's 1982 World Cup song,

optimistically entitled We Have A Dream.

# I have a dream...

# We have a dream... #

Gordon, I have got absolutely no idea

how you got involved in that World Cup song.

What happened? How did that come about?

You know, I don't know either. I don't...

I remember getting a call...

..from my agent saying they were doing one for the World Cup.

I met up with BA Robertson and he played it to me and I thought,

"Oh, that sounds great, actually."

I know he hasn't paid me. That's the only thing I remember.

-BA Robertson still owes me for it!

-That wasn't unusual.

No-one got paid back then.

# Then bonny Scotland

# We'll score the winning goal for you... #

How high did you get in the charts? What was the highest you ever got?

In which continent?

Oh, touche.

No, over here. Did you ever get to number one?

Number two.

-You got to number two? I thought it was number five.

-No, number two.

-Oh, it's the same as me, then.

-Ah!

I got to number two as well.

Even if the World Cup didn't make Gordon a singing star,

the 1994 stage musical She Loves Me certainly did.

# She loves me

# True, she doesn't show it

# How could she?

# When she doesn't know it?

Standing up in front of people and singing is an amazing thing to do.

There's definitely something that just makes you feel good.

It makes you happy, yeah, it really does.

I can remember being quite nervous for you

on your opening night of that show, cos I was a bit like,

"Gordon, are you sure about this?"

-I know. You're singing.

-"You're going to have to sing in front of lots of people."

And you're like, "No, it's fine," and then...

you were brilliant!

Well...you know...

I was.

THEY LAUGH

And the winner is...

-John Gordon Sinclair.

-APPLAUSE

Gordon won an Olivier Award for his performance,

Best Actor in a Musical.

That recognition stood him in good stead in 2005,

when he auditioned for the part of the Leo Bloom

in the West End hit musical The Producers.

The Producers was the happiest year I've ever had in my life.

It's like a...a train that leaves the station and it doesn't stop.

It's like a rollercoaster, and right until the end,

and it's just full of fun and Mel Brooks nonsense.

And I can remember me asking you if you were nervous about it,

just in the build-up to it, and you went,

-"I'm actually not nervous, Clare, I just can't wait to do it."

-Yeah.

Meanwhile, Clare was proving her comedy credentials

in cult hits like Red Dwarf and Father Ted.

If there's one thing I hate, it's hypocrisy.

I mean, the sexism...

LAUGHTER

Then she played a private detective

in one of the UK's best-loved soaps, Eastenders.

We really could do with sussing this bloke out.

I suppose we know he's not even in the country.

See where she goes, who she meets. I want to know more about him.

I need to know what I'm up against.

And recently, she carved out a new niche,

as a presenter on prime-time television.

-Christine?

-Yeah.

-Alicia? It's Clare.

-Can I come in?

-Yeah.

-Cup of tea?

-No problem.

Are you OK?

And Gordon, one minute he's making us laugh...

-Great.

-I have nothing to hide.

..the next, he's cast in meaty dramas.

You're under arrest for murder.

Over the years, versatility has been one of their most precious assets.

If someone says, you know, "Do you want to have a go at this?"

and I haven't done it before, I think, "Yeah, that'll be an experience."

But once you've done it...as well, if someone says,

"Do you want to do that again?" You think, "No, not really."

No matter what, to be 30 plus years down the line with all of this,

we're the exception as opposed to the rule, really.

A lot of people would have just given up. They'd have seen sense.

I think a lot of people out there are thinking, "I wish you had."

Their shared desire for new experiences

has led both Clare and Gordon to develop another talent,

a passion that has consumed them both - writing.

In 2011, Gordon completed a crime thriller

set in Northern Ireland and America.

The manuscript was the subject of a bidding war,

before being snapped up by Faber, for publication in 2012.

It's called Seventy Times Seven and...

..it's about a guy in Northern Ireland whose brother is murdered,

and he kind of spends most of his...

..young adult life trying to find out who did it

and exact revenge on him and stuff like that.

And where did the idea come from? What was the spark?

I've always been fascinated with Northern Ireland.

We lived in London in the '80s,

when there was bombing campaigns going on and stuff like that.

-I don't know about you...

-A bomb at the end of my street!

And I used to sit and watch the news, thinking,

"I have got no idea why this is happening."

I would think that that would make a lot of people quite...

want to shy away from the subject, because it's kind of...

-There's a contention to it, almost.

-There's definitely...

Did you think about that?

I think it is a bit contentious, but, by the same...

I'm still kind of fascinated by it.

So, are you going to read me a little bit?

-I've got a wee bit of it.

-I won't laugh out loud.

So, the guy that's hiding out in America, Finn O'Hanlon...

There's a couple of guys go into a bar and try and kill him.

And so, he suddenly realises that his past's kind of catching up with him.

So, he's standing at the end of this alleyway and it goes,

"Finn O'Hanlon had always known the day would come.

"What surprised him most was the overwhelming sense of relief that he felt.

"Something was finally happening.

"They wouldn't stop until he was dead,

"but at least it would all be over.

"Finn stared up at the cloudless blue sky.

"Over the years, he'd come to realise that running to save your life

"was only worthwhile if you had a life worth saving."

And do you think the reaction to it,

in terms of the industry and people that you've spoken to

and your publishers, were they all quite surprised at your subject

-when you first told them what you'd written about?

-I think, yeah...

They were thinking it was going to be, like, a comedy or...

So, I said, "No, have a read at it first."

And everyone said, "That's just not what we were expecting."

And I thought, "That's good," because I didn't want you to.

-And you're already on book two?

-I've just started book two, yeah.

So, it's kind of like a long-term prospect for you now?

Well, I'll hope so.

# I would like to climb high in a tree

# I could be happy, I could be happy... #

Clare put pen to paper for a very different audience.

Her novel, Tallulah And The Teen Stars was written for,

and inspired by, her daughter, Ellie.

In the case of art imitating life, it's about a little girl

who realises her dreams of forming a pop band.

I think I had thought about the idea for so long,

because it was all completely formed in my head.

All I had to do was physically sit down and do it,

and that was the bit that I actually found quite hard.

I did quite a lot of procrastinating, you know.

-Chocolate biscuits and going swimming...?

-Mm-hmm.

-Shopping?

Anything would do, I even hoovered once. Just once.

Yeah, so, I have so much respect for writers and what they do

and their discipline...

and I could never really describe myself as a writer.

Did you do it so that you could hang out with...

to be at home, and stuff like that?

I needed to create a happy ending in my life.

Right, OK.

And also, I wanted to find a way to explain to Ellie...

-..what Mummy does.

-Does.

I hate being preachy with young people,

but I get so depressed about...

meeting young people who want to be famous

and then you set them, "What for?"

And then they can't tell you.

Everyone says, "Write about what you know."

So, the only thing that I sort of knew about was being...

-Being famous?

-Yeah, in a sort of weird way.

But I wanted to explain to Ellie, in a way,

that it's all right to have fantastic dreams and aim for them,

as long as you were...

..realistic about it?

Recognising that there was some work involved in that.

I think that's what I...

that's why I enjoyed writing the book so much, is...

It's not having anyone say to me,

"You can't do that," or, "You can't..." you know?

So, I got to direct the shots, you know,

as well as being every actor in the piece.

-You give yourself a lead role...

-And the lead role...

I was all the female parts,

I was the whole thing.

I liked that, actually, not having someone saying,

"Oh, no, I don't think you can do that."

And you think, "No, you can. I can do whatever I like."

I mean, I don't really think that I'm that ambitious

or that bolshie or that...

I'm not going to shove anyone out of the road to get there...

-Now, come on, I've known you...

-But, do you know what?

I can't hear the word "no".

When somebody says, "No, I don't think that's going to happen,"

that just makes me go, "I think you'll find..." You know?

-I've got a bit of that too.

-And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

I just can't help myself.

You know, this is really good.

-I'm really enjoying myself.

-Good.

I'm glad we bumped into each other.

30 years after the release of the iconic Gregory's Girl,

its two leads are still securing big-screen roles.

It's really good. You just lie flat down...and dance.

This year, Clare's playing

the mother of a notorious Glasgow gangster, in The Wee Man...

..and Gordon is a Navy SEAL

in the Brad Pitt thriller, World War Z,

the film which temporarily transformed Glasgow's George Square

into the city of Philadelphia.

For these friends, 2012 is a special year,

not just for work, but in their personal lives too.

Born in 1962, they are both now celebrating turning 50.

# Happy birthday, happy birthday

# Ooh-ooh-ooh

# Happy birthday, happy birthday

# Ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh. #

That was amazing!

Hey, excuse me, that's my job!

How could you not sing it like that?

-That was amazing.

-That was lovely, guys.

Gonnae just do that once more. That was brilliant.

The harmonies were brilliant. Go on, one more time. Please.

One, two, three, four...

# Happy birthday, happy birthday

# Ooh-ooh-ooh

# Happy birthday, happy birthday

# Ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh. #

Wow! That was knock-out!

# Happy birthday, happy birthday

# Day, day, day... #

So, raise a glass to Gregory and his girl.

-Cheers.

-Here's to being 25...twice.

I'll drink to that.

Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd