Parsons and Merton BBC at the Edinburgh Festivals

MUSIC: "Minute Waltz" by Chopin (theme tune to Just A Minute)

APPLAUSE

Thank you very much, thank you.

First of all, thank you all for coming here.

"My name is Paul Merton,"

it says on this piece of card, so I'm going to read that out.

This is an Edinburgh Exclusive in honour of a radio, show business,

living legend phenomenon.

Two years ago, we celebrated 45 years of Just A Minute

and expert mathematicians tell me this is the 47th year.

We've also recently recorded the 900th episode of Just A Minute

and the man who has been throughout the chairman,

throughout that entire run,

has never missed a single programme, is here tonight.

Will you please welcome to the stage,

the living legend that is Nicholas Parsons!

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

So, Nicholas, do you want to... Are you OK to check those?

We should at this point out that Nicholas has written a book...

- Mm. - ..um,

which is coincidentally about Just A Minute, which is very good,

but we'll be talking about that later.

When is it published, Nicholas?

It's being published at the BookFest

- on 19th August. - 19th August.

It is the history of Just A Minute, telling you all the background,

how it started, all the things that have happened, all the fun,

the stories, the personalities, the gossip

and the genius of people like Paul Merton.

We've mentioned at the beginning a couple of statistics.

47 years it's been running now, 900 episodes.

When it first started, was it greeted with great enthusiasm by the BBC?

No, it was disaster!

Absolute... I mean, I wasn't supposed to be chairman.

It was going to be Jimmy Edwards.

He was a good choice, actually, cos he'd just done a programme

on Radio 4 called Does The Team Think?

And they thought this sort of thing with people talking would be good

and I was going to be on the panel.

And...I wanted to improvise comedy.

We had a wonderful young director called David Hatch, to whom I've

dedicated the book, without whom this would never have got on the air.

And he said, "We're never going to get Jimmy on a Sunday to record

"the pilot, will you do it for me?" I said, "No, David. I'm wrong.

"I don't want to do it. Please, please!"

"Yeah, I'll do a deal with you.

"You do the pilot for me

"and if we get the series, you can go on the panel."

Well, the panel... It was a disastrous pilot.

- Was it? - No, nobody wanted it.

I mean, we had Clement Freud and Derek Nimmo who were good,

two others who weren't...

LAUGHTER

..and...

You'll have to buy the book to find out who THEY were!

And I wasn't very good because I hadn't done any hosting before.

I was a bit pompous and arch.

I tried to do it as I thought they wanted it, the BBC then,

very formal, so forth.

And David fought for it, it really wasn't good. And then he came to me

and said, "I managed to get a series." And he said,

"There's only one thing they quite enjoyed in the pilot

"and that was your chairmanship.

"So you're stuck with it!"

And in show business, you don't turn down a good job,

so I said, "All right, I'll do it."

I must have done something right,

cos I'm still doing the same job after 47 years!

Fantastic. Isn't that the world record?! I believe it's, er...

APPLAUSE

Now, before we start talking more about the sort of history

of the show, we did...

We've got a few clips that we're going to play -

audio clips from various parts of the show.

900 shows, you could choose 1,000 different ways of doing it -

well, 900 different ways of doing it, probably -

but the first one features somebody

who's only ever played the game once...

- Yes, because, if I can interrupt... - Yes, go on.

..the way the show's evolved,

we had traditional talkers, and raconteurs, and comedians,

and now they're bringing guests in, but they surround them

with very talented people like you.

And they had this gimmick of having a cricket commentator,

- Henry Blofeld... - Yes.

..who was up here doing a show. And Henry is a lovely chap

and he's a talker, but sometimes, they think if he can talk,

he'll be good on Just A Minute, but they don't realise,

but you can explain, the incredible discipline of mind you require.

Well, I suppose, obviously those cricket fans will know him,

he's a supreme live broadcaster, but in live broadcasting, you don't

have to worry about repetition, hesitation or deviation.

As a natural talker, you might use All of those aspects as rhetoric.

So when he came to do the show, He had...he had problems, didn't he?

Absolute problems, yes. He was all over the place.

And that show was actually recorded here last year in this very space.

And you, actually, when he was struggling at some particular point,

you, with your great comic skill, introduced an idea

which you'll hear in the recording which I thought was comic genius,

which helped to save that particular round.

Yes, it was true. that it did sort of like...

it became unlike any other Just A Minute round we've ever had.

- That's right. - Perhaps at this point

we should have a listen to Henry Blofeld from last year.

AUDIO CLIP PLAYS

NICHOLAS: 'And Henry, we're back with you to begin

'and the subject is "Being a James Bond Baddie".

'60 seconds, starting now.'

HENRY: 'I first became a James Bond baddie in 1961,

'with the publication by Ian Fleming of Thunderball.

'Ian and my father had been friends of a sort at school - my father

'was three years older than him -

'and although Fleming always liked to take the names of people

'he didn't get on with at school for his baddies, that hint suggests

'that my father in fact wasn't as great a friend as all that.'

BUZZER 'Oh...'

NICHOLAS: 'Sue challenged.'

APPLAUSE AND LAUGHTER

RUSSELL KANE: 'I was going to buzz on Fleming, Sue,

'and you stopped me with your hand - foul play!'

- PAUL: 'I think that's very sad.' - SUE: 'My hand slipped...'

'Oh, right.'

'..and I withdraw my challenge,

'because I would like to hear about Ian Fleming.'

APPLAUSE

'Henry, she's withdrawn her challenge.

'You've got time to take another breath

'and carry on with "Being a James Bond Baddie".

'36 seconds, starting now.'

HENRY: 'My father and Ian Fleming may not have been...'

LAUGHTER

NICHOLAS: 'Keep going!'

'My father and Ian Fleming may not have been the greatest...'

BUZZER

PAUL: 'I've got a suggestion.

'Can we call this round "My Father and Ian Fleming"?'

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 'Let's do that.'

SUE AND HENRY SPEAK OVER EACH OTHER

NICHOLAS: 'So give Paul a bonus point for his suggestion.

'Right - the subject has now become "My Father and Ian Fleming".'

LAUGHTER

'So "My Father and Ian Fleming",

'32 seconds, Henry, starting now.'

HENRY: 'They knew each other, and...

'fairly well.

'And Ian took my father's name as the name of the baddie.

'Um...

'Thunderball was the book.

'When I... When I... Oh, no, I...'

BUZZER

'I'm getting...'

LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

SUE: 'Now, hang on - I'm confused - did your dad know Ian Fleming?'

HENRY: 'I'm getting it terribly wrong, I'm sorry.'

PAUL: 'No, it's an incredibly hard game.'

NICHOLAS: 'Henry. Henry, this is a comedy show

'and you're contributing tremendously.'

LAUGHTER

SUE: 'Without you, Henry, this would frankly be

'an infomercial about grave-diggers from the 19th century.'

NICHOLAS: 'Right - 22 seconds. Who was it? Paul, did you challenge?

PAUL: 'I'm not sure!'

HENRY: 'I think everyone challenged me, they did it in unison!'

NICHOLAS: 'In that case,

'we'll give it back to you, Henry, if everybody challenged.'

CHEERING

'And say that you have 22 seconds still - if you can -

'to keep going...

'What did we change the subject to?'

PAUL: 'My Father and Ian Fleming.'

NICHOLAS: 'My Father and Ian Fleming, starting now.

HENRY: 'When Ian Fleming started to write Thunderball one evening after

'dinner in his flat on the Chelsea embankment, he wanted to think of

'the name of a baddie and he couldn't and he went to bed scratching

'his head, which is not always the best way of getting to sleep.

'He woke up scratching his head, and the next morning...

'went to his...

'Went to his club in London

'and he looked through the membership list...'

WHISTLE BLOWS

CHEERING

END OF AUDIO CLIP

I think one of the things that really amuses me about that as well,

as he's kept repeating the phrase "my father and Ian Fleming",

once we changed it to that, he didn't say it

when he could have done.

When he could have done. No, but the thing is,

he kept committing all the crimes of Just A Minute all the time.

This is where people like Paul, who are experienced,

are very generous.

Get someone like that who's never done it before, they let him go.

We have a lot of fun doing it. But it's a bit of a challenge, actually.

It's better when they can play.

Yes, you know, imagine four different Henry Blofelds all on the same show,

it would be...absolute chaos.

We make it funny and we make it entertaining,

but it's quite a challenge to do that.

Yes, it's a one-off, I think, when you have someone like that.

But he plays it like no-one else has ever played it.

But we talked about the early days then of Just A Minute,

and you being given the chairmanship of it.

Now, how soon was it that we,

for those who are fans of the show from way back would

remember the sort of quartet of Peter Jones, Clement Freud,

Derek Nimmo and Kenneth Williams?

Some number of people to begin with, including Geraldine Jones and others.

David Hatch experimented sometimes with three people.

He even experimented by putting me on the panel a couple of times,

and so forth, and made Clement Freud chairman, which was a disaster

because he wanted to try and always embarrass me.

But the thing was, eventually it evolved into four regulars,

which was Kenneth Williams, who was wonderful.

To begin with, he was completely lost -

it was genius of David Hatch to cast him -

but once he found his feet,

- it became his favourite job... - Yes.

..cos he'd show off his erudition and knowledge,

because he was completely self-taught.

We had Kenneth Williams, Clement Freud, Peter Jones and Derek Nimmo.

They were the four regulars for many years.

When they first started, those four, you're right,

they became, as we saw, the regular people who played it.

Was it played in a different way in those early days?

To begin with, yes.

I mean, to begin with, I think, um, hesitation

was more hesitation from thought

and deviation from thought

and repetition was of the idea and so forth.

In other words... This is where Clement got a bit cross with me,

because he wanted to keep it in a situation where there were

four intelligent, erudite people talking interestingly,

but not necessarily committing the verbal rules that we have now.

- Yes. Yeah, yeah. - And slowly it evolved.

But I take some credit for having refined the rules

so they became more distinctive.

Clement wanted to keep it in a sort of old-fashioned, cultural way.

There were two programmes on at the time

- called My Word and My Music... - Yes.

..which were of their time and very indicative.

Four intelligent people and a chairman who was very autocratic

and just made rules and comments

- and they just faded away. - Mm.

And Just A Minute would have faded the same if we hadn't increased

the sharpness of the rules, brought in people like you, who picked up

the baton and went with it

and made it much funnier and cleverer and wittier.

I think it was very much in the tradition,

when it was the early, sorry, late '60s, through to early '70s,

you still had this tradition of the radio talk.

"Professor so-and-so will now talk about

"the rainforests of Basingstoke."

And you would have a serious talk.

So the comedy often came about through the challenges rather than

- the actual subject matter itself. - That's right, yes.

Yes. How soon did you realise

that this was going to become a popular show

that became listened to throughout the world, in fact?

That's a very interesting question which I haven't put in the book.

Um, I don't think in show business you realise that.

It's more of a gradual...

You do a show and if it goes well, you think, "Oh, well,

"we might be doing it again." And it slowly evolved.

I think, "Now it's established,

"we are fairly confident they will ask us to do some more."

But at that time...

But at that time, no -

it just plodded along and we...we all got together.

And we went down to the Paris Studios,

and it was nearly always midday,

because Derek Nimmo was in a play and he couldn't do it.

And we had much the same audience.

Kenneth Williams' mother always sat in the front row -

a sweet old woman called Lou -

and kept her eyes riveted on her talented son,

and never took them off,

and never laughed, but just watched her wonderful little boy!

And Derek Nimmo using his knowledge of travel to keep going.

Peter Jones being very witty and acerbic

and Clement Freud being very intellectual and, um...

- Competitive, certainly. - ..and very competitive, yes.

I mentioned the thing about it becoming a programme that soon was

- picked up by the World Service... - Yes.

..and started being played all around the world.

One of my first times somebody came up to me and said they'd

enjoyed me on Just A Minute was about 20-odd years ago now.

A man passed me during the Edinburgh Festival in the street

and said, "Oh, I was listening to you in the summer doing Just A Minute."

And I sort of just nodded, you now, thinking, "Well, that's nice."

And he said, "No, I was crossing the Nairobi Desert in a Jeep".

LAUGHTER

He had it tuned to the World Service.

The strange thing is, you know, the World Service took it up

and it became their most popular programme.

And then they made a decision a number of years ago

to drop all comedy shows from the World Service

and wanted to only send out factual programmes and things which emphasise

the culture and background and history of the British, um, nation.

And...and India, where they love language and words,

it became incredibly popular

and I used to get the most amazing fan letters from India.

And, you know, the Indians are very effusive in their praise

and I used to get wonderful things, overwhelming with compliments.

- But this producer... - Did you put them in the book?

No, because I never kept them!

- Oh, you should have done! - The funniest fan letter I ever got,

or most delightful one, was from an American.

And he is George Adams, he IS mentioned in the book.

He wrote to me and said, "Why is Just A Minute not on the World Service?

"We love it."

I wrote back and said, "The World Service in their lack of wisdom

"have decided that they're only going to put on programmes which

"emphasise the culture and background and so forth of the British nation."

And he wrote back and sent a lovely letter.

He said, "Nothing emphasises the whole nature and background

"and history of Great Britain than Just A Minute.

"It is the epitome of what is Great Britain!"

And he said, "I feel so strongly about this, I'm going

"to send a copy of my letter to your Prime Minister!"

LAUGHTER

And then he put a PS in - "On second thoughts,

"I'm also going to send a copy to your Queen."

LAUGHTER

So I don't know whether she ever got the copy.

I'd love to ask her if she ever did.

We have... You mentioned India there as being one of the places that was,

IS very enthusiastic about Just A Minute.

It's often played over there as a kind of game

to refine your use of English language,

to be able, you know, to express yourself in different ways.

For the 50th, sorry, the 45th anniversary of Just A Minute,

the BBC did a rather unusual thing -

they flew us out to India for a few days where we...

with myself and Nicholas - to Mumbai, in fact

where we were out there. We've got a clip from this,

this features myself, Marcus Brigstocke, Anuvab Pal

and Cyrus Broacha, and with Nicholas, of course, always in the chair.

This is from March 2012.

NICHOLAS: 'And Anuvab, it's your turn to begin

'and the subject is "Colonial India"

'and your time starts now.'

ANUVAB: 'Wajid Ali Shah in colonial India was thrown out of Lucknow

'and he didn't want to travel with any possessions or any money

'as long as he had access to 100 royal cooks

'to make him a perfect biryani...'

AUDIENCE MEMBER: 'Whoo! BUZZER

NICHOLAS: 'Marcus challenged.'

- 'Hesitation.' - 'Yes.'

PAUL: 'It's not often that biryani gets a whoop

'from a member of the audience.' LAUGHTER

CYRUS: 'I think he should be allowed to hesitate, we're all hungry.

- 'Biryani...pause.' - 'Exactly.'

'Right. Marcus, correct challenge.'

'46 seconds, "Colonial India", starting now.'

'The subject is "Colonial India",

'so now seems like a perfectly reasonable time for me to say sorry.'

LAUGHTER

BUZZER

ANUVAB: 'I just have one thing to say to Marcus - hesitation.'

LAUGHTER

- So, it is astonishing really... - Yeah.

..that it has this international appeal.

It is. But, you see, what has happened in India

is they've taken Just A Minute

and adapted it and use their own version of it

because I went out to do a programme

called The Quiz Exchange which I'd written

for Radio 4 and I went to schools

and so forth and we talked about it and I discovered -

it was in Bangalore - there were things called JAM clubs,

which is the initials of Just A Minute.

And I went to one of these JAM clubs, and there

they were all playing Just A Minute for fun in a quite bizarre

and aggressive way and they asked me to join in.

And I came back and I said to my producer, Tilusha Ghelani,

who originally hails from that continent,

I said, "It's wonderful. Could we not go there

"and do a recording of Just A Minute, because they love it still

"and they play it their own individual way at these JAM clubs."

And so we went to Bangalore first,

cos the only way they could afford to do it

was to make a radio documentary...

- Yes. - ..about the trip to India.

- Yes. - We went to the JAM clubs,

watched them playing it in their own individual way.

I went to one or two schools and things and then you flew out with

Marcus Brigstocke, and at the Comedy Store in Mumbai,

we did that recording, which you heard.

Yes, and it went extremely well. We mentioned,

we talked earlier about the early people that used to play the show -

Kenneth Williams, particularly. And we have here...

Our next clip is one that does feature Kenneth.

- Oh, right. - This is from...

I haven't got a year, but I imagine it's about 1980.

Sheila Hancock is also in this. So it's Kenneth Williams,

Sheila Hancock, Alfred Marks and Peter Jones.

The subject is "Curry".

And there's a particular reason why we picked this clip, as well,

so this is clip number three.

NICHOLAS: 'Sheila Hancock, your turn to begin the subject, "Curry".'

- 'Oh...' - 'Tell us something about

'that hot subject in just a minute,

- 'starting now.' - 'The hotter, the better.

'It does in fact make me very...

'ill the next day.' BUZZER

'Kenneth Williams.'

- 'Hesitation, I'm afraid.' - 'I agree, Kenneth.'

'I was going to say something...'

ALFRED: 'She had a mouthful of curry. It's not easy.'

'I was going to be indelicate, so I stopped myself.'

NICHOLAS: 'Yes. Well, it's in the Bible, so...'

- PETER: 'I wouldn't worry.' - NICHOLAS: 'What, curry?'

SHEILA: 'No! The way it makes you the day after.'

PETER: 'Oh, really?'

ALFRED: '"And a great wind came upon Jerusalem."'

LAUGHTER

NICHOLAS: 'So words of wisdom and...'

KENNETH: 'Yeah, and it gets me nowhere,

'I don't get any marks anyway. What's the point?'

KENNETH WHININGLY: 'What's the point, I ask myself?'

NICHOLAS AS KENNETH: 'You can a-a-ask yourself as often as you like!'

KENNETH: 'They're clapping your performance, it's a disgrace,

'shut up!'

NICHOLAS: 'It was the imperson-ay-tion!'

LAUGHTER

KENNETH: 'Is that what I look like?'

NICHOLAS: 'I'm in the lead! Oh, I'm in the lead!'

'Yeah, go on, tell me, I'm in the lead. Ooh!'

KENNETH: 'Hmm, if that's what I look like, well, one of us is terrible!'

END OF AUDIO CLIP

So, Nicholas, there, we heard...

Because when you first started in show business,

a lot of people wouldn't know that you did impressions.

Yes, I was. I started as an impersonator.

So, which? Can you remember which impersonations you did?

Yes, it was... I know what you're going to ask me now!

A man called Carroll Levis and he had his Discoveries.

He used to go around the music hall and in those days...

Nowadays, people find this difficult because

nowadays with Britain's Got Talent and things like that,

people come on and thousands think they've got talent.

And then one or two get their jobs,

but they're just overnight sensations and maybe they succeed

and survive, but in those days, you became a discovery,

you were sort of not quite at the top rank,

but you survived and you worked continuously like that.

And I was then working, trying to be an engineer

because the war was on, but I could get off and do a broadcast.

And he had a programme called Carroll Levis Carries On

and I was doing amateur concert parties up in Glasgow

and I used to impersonate them, the film stars, James Stewart

- and Charles Boyer and people. - Mm. Mm.

- Well, do you want me to do it now? - Well, um...

I mean, I don't think the world has ever been more ready

for a Charles Boyer impersonation!

It was a film from All This, And Heaven Too with Bette Davis.

- Oh, yes. - AS BOYER: Oh, no, no, my darling.

As you stand there with the light on your hair

and your image in the mirror behind.

This is how I want to remember you.

Oh, please, don't move. No, please.

AS SELF: You know, and James Stewart.

APPLAUSE

PAUL LAUGHS

DRAWLS: J-James Stewart used to talk like that.

Mr Smith Goes To Washington - yeah.

I have to say, it's very difficult being on the stage

here at this moment here at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe.

I-I've done many shows in my time,

but I've never worked with Paul Merton before.

So Nicholas, where did your ambition come fr...?

APPLAUSE

Where did your ambition to get into show business come from,

- are you from a showbiz family? - No.

From the earliest age, my parents were HORRIFIED.

Cos in those days, when I was young,

you know, people just followed the line of the family tradition.

If you came from a professional family, you went into a profession.

You took a degree. If you were in business, you went into business.

If you were the labouring class, you became a labourer.

And I showed talent to become an impersonator,

I was always fooling around and making my school chums laugh

and my parents indulged this.

So when I got a bit older and I said I wanted to be an actor,

my father was horrified.

He said, "My dear chap, you don't do things like that!

"I mean, unless you want to be an amateur and have fun doing it,

"but it's not a proper job.

"You've got to get... You've got to get a proper job."

And my mother was horrified,

she thought everybody in the entertainment industry was

either debased or debauched or something and someone like me

would finish as an alcoholic pervert in the gutter.

PAUL CHUCKLES

- I remember saying... - There's still time!

LAUGHTER

It's only half past eight!

Can I tell you a funny story about what my mother said?

- Yes. Yes. - Because I said to her

one time a bit later, I said, "Mother,

"I don't understand you - you love going to the theatre."

She said, "Oh, yes, I do. I love it."

I said, "You admire people like Laurence Olivier, and Leslie Howard,

"and Peggy Ashcroft and others like that." She said, "Yes."

I said, "Do you think they're like all those people you describe?"

She said, "No,

"but isn't it a pity they have to work with those sort of people?"

LAUGHTER

So I knew I was... So, um,

I became an engineer because I was always capable of making

and repairing things and I went on to Clydebank.

SCOTTISH ACCENT: I did five year on Clydebank, you know.

I was over there on Clydebank

working with other fellas who talked like that.

I was known as that big English...

"hey, you, come here with your wah-wah accent,

"we'll teach you how to get your effin' hands dirty.

"This is life here and you'll grow to love it..."

LAUGHTER

And somehow I survived,

but all the time, I was getting away to do little bits of show business.

Carroll Levis' Discoveries, and concert parties,

slowly I got some raw experience. And after the war,

I just chanced my arm and decided to become an actor.

I'd imagine one of the first things you would have done

would have been radio,

because television wasn't really very strong then, was it?

- Radio would have been the thing. - Radio was the big thing then,

oh, yes. Television hadn't started.

And it was the Home Service, the Light Programme

and then Radio 3 was only just beginning.

And I had a great compliment.

Actually, I put it in the book that the BBC decided...

My wife said to me...

I'd just celebrated my 90th birthday, Paul was there.

He made a FABULOUS speech about me, absolutely WICKED, sent me up rotten.

LAUGHTER

- Go on, tell them what you said. - Oh, well, we've set it up now!

Now, let me think. Um... Um...

Yes, Nicholas Parsons is the only current member of show business

who was first mentioned in the Bible.

He was doing the cabaret during the Last Supper...

..and later complained about it being a tough crowd.

I think the other thing was his first publicity photo is actually

a cave painting in southern France which was discovered...

That sort of thing.

But anyway, he set it all up, we did this thing

and then my wife said to me, "They want to give you a surprise party."

I said, "Well, I don't like surprise parties. Please, I don't want it."

And I thought it was some charity was going to honour me and so forth,

but in the end I went along with it. And the taxi arrived

and they were in on the secret. They drove to the Broadcasting House.

I thought, "This isn't a charity, the Broadcasting House."

And I arrived there and Trudi Stevens, our whistle-blower,

greeted me and took me up to what is called the "Council Chamber",

where all the top brass of the BBC meet for their council meetings.

And I walked in there and there were about 100 members of show business,

including you, and they all greeted me, including the Director-General.

And they gave me a party to honour my 70 years of broadcasting.

It was fantastic.

Well, you've introduced longevity there, which is very pertinent,

because our next clip here from Just a Minute, the subject on this

particular clip is why Just A Minute has lasted so long.

Mind you, this was from 2003,

so that's already - what? - 11 years ago.

The panellists on this are myself, I think,

Graham Norton, Sheila Hancock and Clement Freud.

NICHOLAS: '44 seconds, you tell us something about

'"Why Just A Minute has Lasted so Long".'

GRAHAM: 'The main reason Just A Minute lasts so long is because

'people keep INTERRUPTING!

'They...continually...'

BELL RINGS

- NICHOLAS: 'Paul?' - 'Hesitation.'

'Yes, because you interrupted!

'Right, "Why Just A Minute has Lasted so Long",

'and 37 seconds available, Paul - starting now.'

PAUL: 'It's extraordinary, I think

'because the actual way of playing it is capable of infinite variety,

'it's a bit like a game of draughts -

'it seems very simple first of all, the rules aren't many,

'but because of the personalities

'that play the game, they each bring...'

BELL RINGS

- 'Er...Clement Freud challenge.' - 'Repetition of "game".'

NICHOLAS: 'Yes, you did repeat the word "game" before.'

'So Clement, a correct challenge, you tell us something about why you

'think Just A Minute has lasted so long, 22 seconds starting now.'

CLEMENT: 'I think it just SEEMS long.'

LAUGHTER AND BELL RINGS

- 'Sheila has challenged!' - 'Hesitation.'

'Yes, it was hesitation, but let's be fair to Clement - he paused

'for comic effect and Sheila, you get a point for a correct challenge

'and you have 19 seconds on "Why Just A Minute has Lasted so Long",

'starting now.'

'Without a doubt, it's because of the participants -

'excluding myself, of course -

'Kenny and Derek and Peter Jones

'and now the younger generation - it's a wonderful game for...'

BELL RINGS

- 'Clement Freud, challenge.' - 'She missed ME.'

LAUGHTER

And she missed me!

PAUL: There's no easy way of saying this...

So there we had a flavour of, sort of, Clement there, as well.

He was a very competitive player of the game.

- Oh, yes. - As indeed was Derek.

Oh, yes - they were very competitive.

I mean, we've got Gyles Brandreth who's very competitive now,

but again, nowadays, you are in your own way competitive,

but you're very professional.

You know that the success of the show is more important than your own

individual success. I've noticed sometimes that you,

Paul, and this is a great compliment,

you, if you think you've been talking too much,

will hold back and let others have a chance.

Well, yes, it's important to do that I think.

But the... But you see, the others didn't and Clement would...

Clement would never give an inch!

And he criticised me in his autobiography because he actually...

And I put it all in the book, by the way!

LAUGHTER

He didn't like the way... I was... The play...

..the show evolved.

He wanted to keep it as the rather old-fashioned,

staid show where four interesting

and intelligent people showed off their knowledge and erudition.

And he criticised me for playing for laughs,

which all helps the show,

and said I should just have been like a, um, severe schoolmaster,

saying, "Correct challenge. A point to you, carry on. Take the subject.

"No, incorrect challenge, a point to you. Carry on."

And...and it would have been so predictable,

it would have been so boring. But that's what he wanted.

- Yes. - He'd rather have it boring.

I think he was happier with that version of the show.

Absolutely.

But you said some very kind words to me,

but, Nicholas, one of the things

that really has been important is your introduction of the...

Although it seems like a simple thing...

The introduction of bonus points for amusing challenges,

even though they're wrong -

well, wrong within the context of, you know, the rules -

means that you can still get points and be funny without

necessarily competing over every repetition of "the" or "I"

- or whatever. - Yes.

What I did was, originally, the rules were hesitation,

repetition or deviation from the subject.

And when... I stopped that and went just for deviation,

on the basis that someone could challenge,

like Paul would sometimes do, and come up with some bizarre

idea of deviation which is incredibly funny and then I would say, well,

"Paul, that was very funny, I think you deserve a bonus point for that.

"YOU get a bonus point. HE was interrupted, HE gets a point."

So we had more fun.

So the person who's been interrupted, although it was a funny challenge,

it wasn't a correct challenge, doesn't lose the subject.

- They don't feel aggrieved. - And he gets a point.

So it's all right.

To me, people have said to me, what do you think is the essence

of the success of Just A Minute and I think it's about having fun.

I think there should be more fun in life anyway.

We should all laugh more about silly little things.

What I try to do is to generate fun.

Do you find yourself laughing over silly little things these days?

LAUGHTER

Yeah, I do... Sometimes...

Sometimes my wife says to me, "Why did you say that?"

And I say, "Well, I just thought it was quite funny."

She says, "I thought it was stupid."

LAUGHTER

I say, "Well, I was just having a bit of fun, that's all, darling."

And I do. I mean, it is... We should laugh more.

It's the only thing in these difficult, tough times,

when there's so much stress around where you should ease

the relationships between people and nations as well, oh, my God.

It's very sad.

I think... I mention about you coming in because...

I mean, you coming in was an amazing situation.

I first met Paul... It's all in the book, by the way.

LAUGHTER

- I first met Paul... - Have you written a book, Nicholas?

I first met...

The BBC have cooperated and given me pictures and things.

I first met you when we were doing the Simon Mayo show, Scruples.

- That's right, Scruples. - That's right.

I remember you said a wonderful line.

I was talking and chatting and you suddenly said to me,

cos he's got this wonderful ability to be funny - and he said to me...

I suppose it's to your timing and the situation.

You suddenly said, "You were never like this on Sale Of The Century."

But it was a thrill to meet you - that was 1988, I think.

And I'd listen... Just A Minute, by that point, had been going

for 21 years already.

I'd listened to it as a boy of ten onwards, used to listen to it

when it used to be broadcast with the four regulars.

Then, in the early 1980s when I was living in a bedsit

and I didn't have any money, but I did have a little cassette radio,

so although I didn't have a television, I would tape episodes

from Just A Minute off the radio and play them over and over again.

So much so that I heard one episode of Just A Minute

on Radio 4 Extra about two months ago which was one of the tapes

I used to have and I knew it word for word!

I must have listened to it so many times.

But in a strange way, that kind of gave me...

Well, not strange, I suppose in a perfectly understandable way,

that gave me a knowledge and understanding of how to come

into the show initially without ruffling too many feathers.

Because you came to me,

you said, "I love that programme you do on Radio 4."

And I suddenly thought, "My God, you'd be bloody good in that!"

I'd never made any suggestions to our producers before for participants,

but I did, I said to Ted Taylor, who was then our director,

"There's a man called Paul Merton who is very funny

"and I think he'd be brilliant in our show."

He'd never heard of you, he said, "Is he an alternative comedian?"

LAUGHTER

I said, "He's a comedian, I don't know what alternative means.

"He's just a bit different."

LAUGHTER

And I didn't...

I discovered later that you actually had written to ask.

Yes, I had.

The only time I wrote...

I think on the basis of meeting Nicholas, and I was up here in 1988,

and I just wrote a letter to Ted Taylor at the BBC and he got this

letter and checked with his secretary and she'd heard of me from somewhere.

Nicholas had met me the year before, I think it was.

He phoned me up, Ted Taylor phoned me up, very sort of...

Very good, traditional BBC producer

and he wanted to know what I'd be wearing...

I don't know what... He thought Sid Vicious was going to turn up

or something. He reminded me that we didn't swear on Just A Minute.

But I was able to say, "I understand how the programme works."

And, um...

I was able to, in the first case come in

and just find a sort of place within the group of people of the regulars

that wasn't too upsetting, but also could move it on a bit, perhaps.

I remember Ted telephoning me and saying...

He was completely traditionalist, of the old school, Auntie BBC.

He said, "Well, we've had someone drop out

"and I've cast this chap you suggested, Paul Merton.

"I hope he's going to be good, because I can tell you this -

"if he isn't, it's not my fault, it's yours."

So I was under pressure when you came on, but...

For the first time on, you were amazing.

Well, I think it was just the knowledge,

also being able to listen to it.

We have... That leads us neatly into another clip here, Nicholas.

This is Kenny Everett. Now, those of you who remember Kenny Everett...

He only ever appeared on the show once...

Um...

This clip might explain why!

He's talking on the subject...

He's meant to be talking on the subject of marbles.

This is from 5 February, 1980.

The other panellists are Clement Freud, Peter Jones

and Kenneth Williams.

But I think it's Kenny Everett that you hear mainly in this.

NICHOLAS: 'And the subject is marbles. Kenny, would you tell us

'something of those in 60 seconds, starting now.

KENNY: 'Marbles is a game that I last played

'when I was at St Bede's secondary modern school for aspiring twits.

'I always used to wonder

'as I got my thumb into the marbleising position,

'about to flick and ruin all the others in the circle,

'I used to wonder how the heck they got those little coloured

'squirly bits to go through the glass, you know, the...

'The... Aaargh!'

LAUGHTER

NICHOLAS: 'Keep going!

'And anyway... Um...

'I used to wonder whether they put them in

'after with a hypodermic or whether they built the glass

'around the coloured squirly and how they got the colours all to

'intertwangle with each other, all sort of mangling and tumbling

'in a gay abandon throughout the glass, that's what I used to wonder.

'And then I'd flick them and in the middle of the circle they'd go

'scattering all the other marbles in all various directions from east

'to west and north and probably south, as well.

'All the other kids would rush around

'saying, "What a wonderful holly player the old geezer is,"

'cos they used to call them hollies as well, you know and they used to

'call them other things, but I've forgotten what the other things were

'that they used to call them, because I was very young at the time.

'I'm 34 now, it's been absolutely ages since I was at school

'and so I've forgotten the whole thing and anyway,

'it was the coloured squirlies that caught my eye, really,

'because I had a great eye for coloured squirlies

'and I think I've done much more than a minute!'

WHISTLE BLOWS

NICHOLAS: 'Well, I'm afraid we were very wicked, we let Kenny Everett

'go on talking for 90 seconds on the subject of marbles!

'During that time, he continually repeated himself, deviated

'and also hesitated.

KENNETH WILLIAMS: 'But didn't lose his marbles.'

There's a lovely word he invented there, "intertwangle".

I think that's a beautiful word.

That's an example of where you were seasoned professionals.

If you realise something is funny - you weren't in the show,

but it happens other times - you let the person go,

so we can have entertainment.

Clement Freud wouldn't, but he was much more precise about it.

But that was a perfect example.

Have you, sort of... Over the years, you've watched it develop.

Have you ever sort of felt like you'd like to have another go

- at being a competitor? - No, no! No, no. No, no!

Really?

No, when I was, I mean, it was on a hiding to nothing,

because we did... Four specials they put in at one time.

We had the four regulars whom I mentioned.

And they decided, as a gimmick...

It was way back in the early days of David Hatch,

that I should go on the panel and each of them,

Clement Freud, Peter Jones, Derek Nimmo

and Kenneth Williams should all go in the chair for these four specials.

Of course, Clement was the first to go on and he was determined

I shouldn't get any points. But actually, I did manage to win and...

And then Peter Jones was quite good, Derek Nimmo was all over the place.

Kenneth Williams didn't know whether it was Sunday or Monday,

it was ridiculous!

Ian Messiter, who used to blow the whistle, he kept saying to him,

"What do I do? Was that hesitation? Oh, yes! Oh, lovely.

"Shall I give him a point? Yeah, do you want a point for that? No!

"What do we do next? Was it hesitation?"

Ian Messiter was really running it, he just didn't know where he was.

You mentioned there, which is very good

that you did mention Ian Messiter, because he was the one person who is

vital to the whole thing of Just A Minute. We haven't mentioned him yet.

Tell us who Ian Messiter was.

Ian Messiter was a very creative... Well, he was an inventor, to my mind.

He invented a number of radio shows like Petticoat Line and...

PAUL: Many A Slip, I think.

Many A Slip and many other ones.

How did Ian Messiter come up with the idea of Just A Minute?

Well, according to what he said, it was when he was at school,

his master called him up

cos he thought he hadn't been paying attention

and said, "Messiter, I want you to repeat what I've just been saying

"and you mustn't hesitate or repeat anything."

It stuck in his mind, so he had this idea and then he had the idea

of deviation and so he had this programme,

which he did with Many A Slip.

Many A Slip was a sort of forerunner of Just A Minute,

because I went to Ian, I knew him very well.

I said, "Ian, I've just had a success on radio with Listen To This Space,

"which I won an award for.

"I want to do some improvised comedy, have you got any ideas?"

He said, "Well, I've got this programme here which I've adapted

"and I'm going to call it Just A Minute."

So I actually took it up to Roy Rich,

who was then Head of Light Entertainment,

and I put the idea to him and he said, "Yes,

"I think that's a good idea, let's go with a pilot."

And, um, I was going to be on the panel...

And as I say, Jimmy Edwards, as I said before.

Yes. Well, our last trip here features me, sadly.

This is me doing a whole minute on flying saucers.

Until I got sent this clip the other day I'd completely forgotten this,

because it is from February 1995.

The other panellists are Derek Nimmo, Peter Jones and Steve Frost,

although I don't know how much you hear of those. Um, but this is me,

from 20 years ago. AUDIO CLIP FOLLOWS

- STEVE FROST: 'Blimey. - NICHOLAS: 'Flying saucers.

'60 seconds, starting now.'

PAUL: 'Well, a flying saucer landed in my back garden about 19 years ago

'and I got on it and went to the planet Venus, and it's true

'because I've got photographs here of me

'standing on the surface of that particular planet.

'And anybody who says this is false can come outside and I'll give them

'a damn good fight because I was trapped on that particular orb

'in space for YEARS.

'I tried speaking to the Venusians, I said, "Look,

'"it's not my fault I'm here, I was kidnapped by one of your people."

'They said, "It's got nothing to do with us, it could have been

'"anybody they picked up. We had Winston Churchill about 30 years ago.

'"Before that, Sir Stanley Matthews,

'"the wizard of the wings spent a fortnight on this very surface."

'"I thought, "Well, I'm very proud to be in such august company."

'They said, "So you should be and all.

'"What do you want for your dinner?" I said, "Well, what have you got?"

'They said, We can offer you fishcakes,

'"if that's not too fantastic for you?"

'I thought it was quite an extraordinary concept,

'the idea of eating that particular meal out here,

'this far away from the Earth, where I originally came from.

'They said, "Look, do you want it or not?" I said, "It'll be fine."

'So at that point, they produced a doner kebab,

'which, to all intents and purposes, was completely cold.

'I said, "Why is this not served up hot?"

'They said, "We got it from a shop in Highgate

'"and it's a long way away to bring it all the way from

'"that particular part of north London to where we're standing now."

'I said, "OK, I'd go along with that. What have you got to drink?"

'They said, "Well, we've got Watneys Red Barrel."

'I said, "That is just too fantastic because nobody outside of the..."'

WHISTLE BLOWS

CHEERING

It is, um...

Paul, I must come in there because,

you see, this is where I think you illustrate your comic genius.

I mean, others... I mean, he didn't hesitate, repeat or deviate...

I did planet a couple of times!

No! I mean, The thing is, he went into the world of fantasy -

which you can do -

and anybody could have challenged for deviation,

but that's where they're sporting - kept back.

You did not repeat anything and it's an incredible discipline of mind

that keeps you going like that.

And it's your contribution to the show

which has helped to make it so successful.

Well, you're very kind, Nicholas, you are.

But I mean...

I think we should give him a round of applause, don't you, for that?

APPLAUSE

I think it's one of those things, I do a lot of improvisation,

so there's an example of you've no idea where you're starting,

but you just keep going and suddenly,

you're being offered fishcakes on the planet and stuff like that.

But there must be a thing that, as you're talking

and you're coming to a word which you know you've used before,

you have to quickly find another one without hesitating.

Yes, although sometimes I sort of developed a little...

You can trick people who haven't played it much.

You say, um, "As I walked up the steps, I trod stair by..."

And they come in, and you haven't said the next word "stair".

They think you're going to repeat "stair"

but you say something else. so you can, sort of, sometimes

- lure people in I think. - I know.

I know. - We're coming to the end,

sadly, Nicholas, of this 45-minute show.

Um, is there, um...

What do you... How do you think the show will go on from here?

I mean, it goes from strength to strength, really, doesn't it?

Well, I don't know. I mean, it keeps up its strength.

It keeps up its standard.

And you and I agree on this idea

that some people who've won their spurs

have proved they can play the game,

I think they should go...

they are on the producer's wish list and they're not always free

because radio doesn't pay vast sums of money.

I mean, it doesn't.

Actually, this is why we're so grateful to Paul Merton,

because what he gets for Just A Minute

doesn't really increase his lifestyle very much.

LAUGHTER

But he does it because he loves the show.

And we have a whole queue of people who want to come on

because they love the show. It is a fun show to do.

And, um...

so the producer now has a nucleus of regular performers

who have proved themselves in it

and, occasionally, we bring in someone new,

but you always make sure you surround them with three regulars

otherwise they can, um, struggle.

Well, I think it's good, it's useful because it shows that

if you have three regulars, there's an etiquette, I suppose.

It's what we've been saying all the way through.

If somebody is being amusing, then you let them go.

If you have two new people on the show, they don't know that

and they pick up on "the" and "I" and things like that.

But I think it's... You know, Nicholas,

you've said some very kind words to me

but, after all, this is really about you here.

It is extraordinary that you've done 900 shows

and there seems to be no way of getting rid of you,

it's absolutely...

LAUGHTER

It's an absolutely phenomenal achievement.

Ladies and gentlemen, the magnificent man.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE Thank you

Thank you.

COMMENTS DROWNED OUT BY APPLAUSE