Episode 12 Film 2011 with Claudia Winkleman

Hello, and welcome to Film 2011. We Hello, and welcome to Film 2011. We

are live, and if you want to get in touch, the details are on the screen

now. Coming up tonight: George Clooney gets all powerful and

political in The Ides of March. Today marks the beginning of a fight

between two sets of ideals. It doesn't matter what you thought, it

matters what you did and what yo do. Was Shakespeare the real deal?

was the question in Anonymous. 10,000 listen to go the ideas of one

man. That's power, Robert. Will Shakespeare, fraud, charlatan.

And we take your breath away as Top And we take your breath away as Top

Gun turns 25. I feel the need, the need for speed. Ow!

Plus Paul Greengrass talks about the Plus Paul Greengrass talks about the

making of his film, United 93. First The Ides of March, which stars my

future husband Ryan Gosling and is directed by George Clooney. You OK?

We are going to be fine. It's the right thing to do and if nothing

happens we will be doing the right thing. Is this your personal

theory? I can shoot holes in it. There's exceptions to every rule.

The movie takes him on a classic The movie takes him on a classic

story, you start out in something very big and bit by bit you start to

take things away by people who are better at it than he is and he

becomes the master of it and gives away only his soul to win.

That to us was exciting. Got a That to us was exciting. Got a

couple of minutes? I can't be talking to you. You are. You are

Is it worth doing this wrong thing, Is it worth doing this wrong thing,

leaving the campaign while the ropes, to work for

candidate, but if he works for that candidate then he can potentially

get into the White House and affect policy and effect change. You are

a sinking ship. Tell her what she wants to know and jump. Come

our side. We can control this thing. Steve? I got to go.

I would say the movie is not I would say the movie is not

actually about politics. It takes place in a political world. What

it's about is universal themes like ambition, hubris, betrayal, lust. It

just so happens it takes place political backdrop and the stakes

are high. If he loses, you are back at a consulting firm. The themes

are universal. I thought I was being smooth and subtle. No, you are

being forward. You have no idea how to tie a tie, do you? No, not a

clue. George is one of the few actors on the planet you really

believe could be a President of United States. You look at him and

say there's a guy who presidential by nature. What do you

want? Cabinet post. I said I wasn't going to make those deals.

I love working with a director I love working with a director

that's also an actor. They know to talk to you, how to take care of

you and what it's like to be in your shoes so they are really sensitive

to that. He knows exactly what he wants so you can really relax.

not telling you what to do but he is so strong in being able to -

you are offering him, he is saying yes, that works, lose that,

that, and it's a letter vision he does it with such - it's a

vision but he does it with such finesse, as you might imagine.

LAUGHTER. You really want this story getting out? Dignity matters.

You are off the campaign but thought it was important to "fix

things"? Integrity matters. future depends on it. Don't do

this! I will do or say anything if I believe in it but I have to

believe in the cause. Danny Leigh. Claudia Winkleman. Good, I'm

pleased we've done that. Let's roll. So this is a story about

American politics. As a West Wing obsessive, this is always going to

be a disappointment, before you have even bought your ticket for the

film. However, that's probably unfair on anybody who wants to write

a political drama. You've got to put that to one side. I really found

this enjoyable. It's taut, which I like. Sort of springy, sort of

tight. It's solid. The actors really good. My only gripe

to say this early on, is that the basic premise, which is some

politicians are naughty, or they can betray people, is no biggie, because

I feel like I think 12 years after Primary Colours you are sort of

going - ee - however, recommend it. What do you think?

don't think you talk to the story - I've lost my train of thought

completely. Take me. I will. George Clooney I think directs

really, really well. Ryan Gosling is brilliant. My train of thought has

returned. It's like a very built lovingly crafted box. I think

the question is whether that's enough. You've got it

with great performances. Yeah. you say. The main problem is this

film is saying something which it thinks is revelatory, which is

as you say the American system does strange things

they can be corrupted. I don't know if that's enough to carry the movie.

As a Friday night film it's fine and it is piled high with great

performances. It's an actor's movie essentially. Yes. Clooney is a

master really, even when he is in the shot himself. Getting out of

shot and letting people of the character of Philip Seymour Hoffman

do their stuff, on that scale it works perfectly. Like you I have

reservations about the message. The cherry is Ryan Gosling and it's

brilliantly cast. Here is the thing. When you get 20 minutes

you are going to sort of know what's going to happen. If you are

expecting a twist, that's not the way it works. Yes, the thing is,

the way the film is sold as a political thriller, it's doing

itself a disservice there because people will be expecting something

to happen whereas if people are sitting there on the weekend

they can pause the screen 20 in, if you took a straw poll after

that and ask to take a wild guess about what will happen to each of

the characters here, pretty much everyone will be spot on. I have a

lot of respect for the job George Clooney has done here. What he has

done is on one level he has got of the way of the actors; on

level he is also aware that making a film about men in shirt

talking to each other sort of visual energy and

imagination. He does just enough. He doesn't do what Roland Emmerich,

we will be talking about later on - he manages to make these scenes of

men in rooms work. It's just that you keep coming round to that same

problem which is that in will be next year, 2011 at the

moment, talk being the 2012 elections, I don't know if what this

film is saying is cute or enough because America has bigger

problems actually than the fact that individual politicians have strange

proclivities. Yes, but I would recommend it. Would you? I would

a Friday night movie. What's interesting is that it has its

shameless Oscar bait and it has pretensions - a cruel word - but

pretensions to being more than that. As a Friday night movie it's fine.

Next up is Anonymous. The film the question: was Shakespeare

We all know Shakespeare, the most We all know Shakespeare, the most

famous author of all time. Writer of 37 plays, and why we are here today.

But what if I told you Shakespeare never wrote a single word?

This film is a political thriller, This film is a political thriller,

set on a backdrop of Elizabethan England, and it also begs the

question whether William Shakespeare of Stratford was the author of the

complete works of Shakespeare or whether it was Edward de Vere,

Earl of Oxford, who I play in the film.

All art is political otherwise it would be just decoration and artists

have something to say otherwise they would make shoes, and you are not

cobbler, are you? My God, the Earl of Oxford does not write plays.

this is to be done, it must be carefully. Skillfully. It was a

period in England where society and information was in flux. The Church

was no longer a mouthpiece for the masses. The theatres were.

10,000 all listening to the ideas one man. That's power. When I

out I had been asked to audition for Shakespeare, I was excited. It

not be performed until I tell you what you will only have a day's

notice. That will be expensive, having everything ready and keeping

props made cheaply. We wanted him to look like

to look like William Shakespeare, to have the same hair and everything,

everyone has an idea, but then to confound that by being quite

You've had a poem published today. You've had a poem published today.

Published, what, do you mean, like, in a book?

I think Will told a lie and there I think Will told a lie and there

are a lot of famous people that say the same thing and I think

should be made aware that the man from Stratford is only one of the

candidates. Ben, I'm an actor. Every inch of me, down to my very

toes, I want the - crave, to act. So bloody well act like a writer. And

for God's sake keep off the stage, will you? Writers do not have time

to act. What appealed to me about the film, the whole subject matter,

Shakespeare, Elizabethan will have, politics.

What thought of you of our young Lord's play, William, if plays are

indeed such a sin I pray that I will not find my salivation until very

late in life. On the one were extremely refined people, the

Renaissance, on the other hand were quite blood lusty and used

anything, you know, to keep their power. The theme was: is the pen

mightier than the sword? He is not an intellectual or worthy or sphere

I do not remember film; it's a cracking story. This will put

spanner in the complete works. of your plays will ever carry

What did you think of this one? What did you think of this one?

think the first time that you hear about Anonymous, you think: hang on,

this is absurd. Roland Emmerich, the director of Godzilla and 2012 and

the Day After Tomorrow is going to put away his effects and make an

Elizabethan costume drama about the disputed authorship of Shakespeare's

place. Maybe you think this is a lifetime's passion but no, Roland

Emmerich didn't like Shakespeare a kid. He has admitted that in a few

interviews and it was only as adult that he saw some adaptations,

and I have written this down, and he said: wow, this guy can tell a

story. Then you see the thing and it's so full of

it's so full of melodrama and it's just flagrant nonsense. How

could take this seriously is beyond me. It reaches a pitch of absurdity

and ludicrousness that actually it pains me to admit it, but it becomes

weirdly gripping. It's like gripped round the back of the neck,

not what I'm necessarily comfortable with, but gripped,

Claudia, I was. I totally agree with you. I haven't been to a

pantomime but I am sure I will It reminded me of one, if you like,

where he is going to shout: no, is behind you. The whole thing is

absurd. If you go into this thinking you will find out the truth

about Shakespeare you will be (a) lived and (b) disappointed. My

father is a massive fan of Shakespeare and I imagine he

be standing up shouting: no, people will get into trouble for this!

However, it is a rollicking good ride, I think over 120 minutes, but

I would say that Rhys Ifans is brilliant, Joely Richardson as well,

wonderful her mother plays the older Queen Elizabeth. I enjoyed it. I

think Rhys Ifans holds it together because his character make it is

believable. Rhys Ifans' career is interesting. He is clearly very

talented but at the same time if you look back, it's less a filmography

and more a charge sheet read out a trial but here he gives the film

heart. There are other great performances. Vanessa Redgrave

fantastic. I think it's worth mentioning that someone else

brought in to direct the stage element of the film which is

interesting because as a director I am not sure Roland Emmerich has such

a wonderful touch with actors so here you have a film where every

actor is playing at a slightly different pitch. They seem to be

acting in a in fact to other characters and

there's a moment also where the CGI suddenly comes out and you can

Roland Emmerich exhaling with relief: finally I can blow

up. Would you tell people to see this film? With reservations.

What's interesting is it has inspired this real life controversy.

I can see why Shakespearean dons are angry because they will be spending

the next 20 years now dealing with people who think that this is

somehow the truth but at the same time it's Roland Emmerich. The guy

clearly had to be restrained from recreating Elizabethan England and

flying pterodactyls over the top of it. Anyone who is taking this as

historical - Fact. - is sorely misguided. OK, on that topic it's

Cinema always treated history as Cinema always treated history as

nothing more than one enormous room and here are my top 5

historically inaccuracies. At number 5: The Patriot. May I sit with you?

It's a free country. Or will be. Not only does it suggest

that slavery itself was abolished by the American war of independence, it

also allows Heath Ledger to get married on a beach amongst

slaves in what looks like a Caribbean utopia more suitable for

the cover of a 1980s Sandals brochure. Will you have this

to be your wife, to live together the covenant of marriage, will you

love, comfort and honour her for so long as you both shall live?

At number 4, Titanic. Famously At number 4, Titanic. Famously

riddled with howlers, there are whole websites devoted to it but I

particularly rememberrish the moment - cherish where Rose sighs over a

number of paintings which didn't go down with the ship since

they currently hang in the Modern Art. They are fascinating,

like being inside a dream or something. There's truth but no

logic. What's the artist's name? Something Picasso. He won't

to a thing, he won't, trust me. At least they were cheap. At number 3,

No, the Americans did not capture No, the Americans did not capture

the first naval Enigma machine leading to the cracking of vital

German codes; it was in fact our very own HMS Bulldog and not even

the presence of the Bon Jovi is going to change that.

Great movie though. At number 2, Where Eagles Dare and

specifically Clint Eastwood's hair style, an anachronistic style if

ever I saw one. This is be

be the Secret Service in Bavaria. What were you

about? I told him I was Himmler's brother. I can see why that would

shake him up a little. More than a little I would think. Keep an eye on

things, I will be back. At number 1,

1, in the 1971 adaptation, most of mankind was to be wiped out by 1975,

leaving behind little but the entirely humourless Charlton Heston

which thankfully didn't happen. In 2001 a Space Odyssey they predicted

a nonstick frying pan on the moon. Which of those

pass? Brilliant. Thank you so much for

your tweets. One says: every time I hear someone in a Shakespeare movie

call him Will, I feel a tiny sick. Another one: he likes to

fast and loose with history, the little tinker. Another one

to Schindler's list and passive smoking which was only discovered in

the 1970s. Up next, a young woman is murdered

by a notorious gang member, sister wants revenge and joins

rival girl gang to get it. .

Just want to come up and take what's Just want to come up and take what's

mine. I will sort it. Leave it. What are you talking about? Leave

her alone. Stupid bitch. He is the one that killed my sister.

to kill you. /! Come on!

We are not getting involved. We are not getting involved.

happened to protecting each over? We are protecting ourselves. She

What happens? The only way you What happens? The only way you

# Break, break your neck # # Break, break your neck #

All right, bruv? Yes, exactly. What All right, bruv? Yes, exactly. What

# Break, break I liked about this film is I really

cared about the characters. There is menace in the air. There is a murder

scene - I don't think I am giving anything away because they show a

part of it and it happens the scene, it's really, really quite

terrifying, really scary. There is a girl in it called Lily Loveless

is brilliant - hello - who absolutely brilliant, and you can't

take your eyes off her and I it's just an amazing performance

because you are always drawn to her. I think what's wrong with it is it

can be quite disjointed. know if you agree? It is incredibly

disjointed, rough and would be easy to sit here and

the boot in. Let's accentuate the positive. If you look at British

crime movies, certainly in the post-Guy Richie era, so much of it

doesn't exist in reality. Girl gangs, I think anyone who lives in

London and any major city, will do exist. I spent a lot of time

the top deck of the A7 bus so I'm often around girl gangs and at

that's rooted in authenticity. Lily as you say is the real ace up

sleeve of this film. That's not to disrespect any of the other cast

members. Although not the biggest part, she is probably the best known

person in the film and she is class act. She elevates things. I

would almost be tempted to leave it there but in fairness we do have

point out that the film, as I rough and ready is the least of it.

It almost feels like it's built out of a kit of 101 other movies, and

there's a sort of sense of kidulthood and Byker Grove. So not a

winning combination. It's not great, there are good things about it.

years ago saw the release of that I love. Danny, you may look

away. As if my night weren't enough already. It may not be

considered a classic - is - it may not be high up but it

contains a volleyball sequence voted best scene in a film by Suck

magazine three years in a row. What more do you want?

It's easy to see why Top Gun struck It's easy to see why Top Gun struck

such a chord back in the 1980s. It has everything, fast planes, big

guns, hot guys, cool shades and tache. It's a movie about hot young

guys flying planes. This gives me a hard on. It's vacuous, empty, loud.

Don't tease me. Incredibly This is what I call a target-rich

environment. It matches the drug of the decade. This is a cocaine movie.

You are the top 1% of all naval Aveiators. The elite. Best of the

best. We will make you better. OK, we all know that it is no Citizen

Kane but the story of iceman and colleagues has become the stuff of

legend. I feel the need, the need for speed, it's one of my favourite

lines, quoted all the time. I they would send me a buck every time

the line is quoted. Jester's dead. Yehaw. I can't have the rest of my

life without someone shouting that at me from across the airport. You

are. You are all Top Guns. It is deftly deconstructed by Tarantino

himself. It is a story about a struggling with his own

homosexuality. The director is beavering away on a conversion but

he told us why it's still flying high after 25 years. It's a rare

mixture of everything: character, of action, of a very simplistic

but a great story. Tony Scott and famously Ridley Scott, London ad men

went over in the 1980s and brought this wonderfully glossy airbrushed

take to Hollywood. If you look commercial directors even today they

are all doing bad imitations of Tony Scott's look. Sunrises, saucy light,

motorbikes roaring through the desert. All of that is Tony

and he invented it with Top Gun. Real fighter pilots and

were used to create extraordinary sequences. But working

with the US Navy wasn't always easy, particularly when it came to getting

this crucial shot. CHEERING. Got the shot all ready to go and then they

turned the aircraft carrier so the light went flat and horrible,

and I got the admiral on the bridge and said what does it cost

minute to run in a particular direction, and I think in the end I

paid $25,000, I got them to send my chequebook up on a rope to the

Admiral, he then turned around and I got my shot. You! You

are still dangerous. You can be my wing man any time. Bull, you can be

sadly not all problems could be sadly not all problems could be

sadly not all problems could be solved quite so easily. They

solved quite so easily. They solved quite so easily. They

sadly not all discovered in the editing room

these incredibly expensive, incredibly complicated and

choreographed air sequences didn't actually make any sense and were not

communicating to the audience the drama, the nearness of the

the tension that they needed it to so they had to sort of start over.

Scott and the film's producers spent days and nights re-working the

aerial footage. Adding new lines of dialogue under the character's

masks. Watch out, there's an Mig your right, he is firing. I am hit,

I'm hit! There were first complaints that there wasn't

action on the ground, in the bedroom, so at the last minute

Scott pulled together a love scene. Tom was off then shooting Colour of

Money and we shot the elevator scene. Hair had been changed since

the first takes, hence the cap and an unlit set. The best song by

Berlin was also added at the minute and Top Gun was complete.

Right now, the sequel is being worked on. I ask only one thing for

that, that they somehow bring back Anthony Edwards from the dead, him

and his magnificent tache. Now, if you will excuse me, I feel the need,

the need for speed. God damn it, son after bitch! Yeeha! I love Chris

Hewitt. We've had so many tweets. Does it really upset you? It does

rather. You have a far away your eye. I apologise. Has been

sent in: I will never watch it. I'm 42. The other one: I grew to love

it. Worked in cinema when first released, it played for 26 weeks.

Not a lot else going on in Portsmouth. That's unfair, I love

Portsmouth, but that's a long time to sit in the cinema watching that

film. Next the story of a Mexican girl who dreams of becoming

queen but is forced into a life of drug running after she become as

eyewitness to a terrible crime. . Judge.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 60 seconds

. GUNFIRE . Judicious.

I think technically, as a piece of I think technically, as a piece of

capital F Film, it's face-slappingly good, breathtaking. It's all about

camerawork and that's extraordinary here. What I do need to say to

people, particularly having seen that clip and they may be slightly

misled, although it's a bullet-strewn story, this isn't City

of God. It's something much arm's length and more distinctive

because of that. You are following the camera into strange

and unlikely places. There's a virtuoso gun battle that we saw in

that clip. You are following it all from ground level so it's

disorientating. City of God was a fantastic movie, but it was

Scorsese's Brazil. I love that this never seems like an audition for

Hollywood, it is made completely on its own account. I know, I thought

it was brilliant as well, and I keep on expecting her to be saved, just

because you mentioned Hollywood. are just thinking: please, can it go

differently? It's incredibly tense because everything you think is

going to happen you have to wait for so it's almost worse - you will know

hopefully when you go and see it, but you are just waiting for the

horror and of course it comes. is brilliant, this girl in it. She

is fantastic because it's such unusual character. You are not

dealing with a plucky underdog she is also not a villainous and her

character is in shock for most of the film. She has to play that.

doesn't have a big back story, a big emotional set piece, and yet all the

same it's a fantastic performance. What's your film of the week?

Miss Barlow in fact. And The Ides of March. Neither of us

have said Anonymous which is a heartbreaker. You can log onto our

website to find details. Next, director's cut and this week

we hear about the filming of 93.

Not that long after 9/11, I started Not that long after 9/11, I started

thinking about how I could make film that would explore it.

United 93 Cleveland, verify your United 93 Cleveland, verify your

altitude. Tom, I'm getting no response out of an United 93.

response at all. I remember absolutely drawn to United 93. And

the struggle on the plane. So it was a question of situating that

struggle in its correct context, which was all these systems. The

thin tissue of rationality by which we live our lives and how easy it is

to tear it, and what happens when we do and how swiftly the systems

All the people were all air traffic All the people were all air traffic

controllers who had been there on controllers who had been there on

All the people the day. We had brought over to play

that part. The idea was that you would sort of have a few actors in

amongst professionals, and, if you get that balance right and

are very, very lucky, the sort of actors stop acting and the

non-actors start acting and you get this beautiful sense of reality.

Ben, New York centre called, they were tracking the primary target and

they've lost it. Where? Somewhere over the city. Over the city?

down over the city? All in touch with the Metro tower,

if they have a visual. Jesus! my - And there was this incredible

emotional electricity on the you could see it in other moments. I

remember, there's a shot in that film, one of my

the film actually, where you are inside that military command centre.

Did you see that, sir? One of the Did you see that, sir? One of the

planes has gone off course and they are trying to work out what's

on. Jesus Christ. And the second plane, I think, has just hit

tower. And you see this woman and one of the officers is pushing the

room for information and you can see on her face shock and emotion. What

have you got, Shona? Passengers said they have another hijacked aircraft,

United 175. And that's not acting. You know, she had re-lived events

that she had gone through. What is happening?

h happen. We are going back to the airport, everything is going to

fine. The rule that I set was that we weren't going to shoot

from outside the aeroplane. In other words, we weren't going to use it as

a set with floating walls, which you could have done. We could have cut

the thing on half. They are on the ground, outside the cockpit. They

are on the floor. I wanted the situation that we were on the plane

and as constricted. She saw two bodies in front of the

the floor. You know, the way Barry Ackroyd and Clements shot it, they

were inhabiting this world so they were responding to events

were occurring, and it gave it that heightened sense of reality.

I think that scene that begins with I think that scene that begins with

the counterattack, if you like, from the passengers - go, go, go! Then

it always felt to me, watching that, that there was something of what was

going on in our world. That was the post-9/11 world. You know. A

desperate sort of struggle for the control of modernity, you know.

So fascinating, that's my film of So fascinating, that's my film of

the week. Mine too. Just stay in, get that. You can see more on the

Film 2011 website and over following weeks you will he we will have more

directors including Mike Leigh and Stephen Frears. Next week we will be

reviewing Straw Dogs and back to our regular Wednesday night spot.

Playing us out tonight a clip from In Time starring Justin Timberlake

in cinemas from 1st you very much for watching.

MUSIC. You are going to kill us. MUSIC. You are going to kill us.

MUSIC. You are going to kill us. What are you doing? Do you even know

What are you doing? Do you even know What are you doing? Do you even know