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Welcome to The Arts Show. As elections loom on the near horizon, | 0:00:02 | 0:00:04 | |
we'll be looking at the art of politics. | 0:00:04 | 0:00:07 | |
This year is also the 50th year since the launch of BBC Two. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:39 | |
We'll be dusting off some moments from the archives a little later. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:42 | |
Here's what's coming up. | 0:00:42 | 0:00:43 | |
Created for BBC Two Northern Ireland, we look back at Alan Clarke | 0:00:43 | 0:00:47 | |
and Danny Boyle's groundbreaking Troubles drama Elephant. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:50 | |
Renowned political cartoonist Ian Knox invites us to join him in his | 0:00:52 | 0:00:55 | |
studio, where he combines artistic ability and social commentary. | 0:00:55 | 0:01:00 | |
Veteran journalist Eamonn Mallie gives us | 0:01:00 | 0:01:02 | |
his take on the thought-provoking exhibition | 0:01:02 | 0:01:06 | |
Art Of The Troubles in Belfast's Ulster Museum. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
And, Noel Thompson meets a man who has been documenting life here, | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
including our politics, since the '70s - photographer Bobbie Hanvey. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:16 | |
I'm here in the Linen Hall Library in Belfast, | 0:01:33 | 0:01:36 | |
home to the Northern Ireland Political Collection, | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
a huge body of local political literature and artefacts. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:43 | |
John Killen is librarian here, author of The Unkindest Cut: | 0:01:43 | 0:01:47 | |
A Cartoon History Of Ulster in the 20th century. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:51 | |
How far back do cartoons go? | 0:01:51 | 0:01:53 | |
In our context, the cartoon really is | 0:01:53 | 0:01:56 | |
an 18th-century manifestation | 0:01:56 | 0:01:59 | |
of political satire. | 0:01:59 | 0:02:01 | |
It goes back to James Gillray in the 1770s, '80s, '90s. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:06 | |
There are two that he did in June 1798, | 0:02:06 | 0:02:11 | |
during the Rebellion, United Irishmen In Training, | 0:02:11 | 0:02:15 | |
and you can see he's already using the very coarse features | 0:02:15 | 0:02:18 | |
that were very prominent in the 19th century. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:21 | |
It's almost we're monkeys. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:22 | |
-That's right. -Simian. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
The simianisation of the Irish face. | 0:02:25 | 0:02:27 | |
They knew who they were writing for, | 0:02:27 | 0:02:29 | |
and they were writing for a specific audience. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:31 | |
That specific audience was the literate | 0:02:31 | 0:02:35 | |
classes in the United Kingdom. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
With the spread of printing and newspapers and magazines in the 19th | 0:02:37 | 0:02:42 | |
and certainly into the 20th century, it becomes how we view ourselves. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:47 | |
This illustration, it's a little book, printed in Belfast, 1892, | 0:02:47 | 0:02:51 | |
and it's called The Diary Of An Irish Cabinet Minister. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:55 | |
You can see this melee, a sort of free-for-all. | 0:02:55 | 0:02:58 | |
-All hell has broken loose. -This is local. -This is local. | 0:02:58 | 0:03:02 | |
This is where we begin to look at ourselves. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:04 | |
The people change, but the politics don't. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
That seems to be the way. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:08 | |
There's a cartoon by Rowel Friers that appeared in the Irish Times | 0:03:08 | 0:03:13 | |
showing the ballot box in one hand | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
and the Armalite in the other. | 0:03:16 | 0:03:18 | |
-That's 1982. -OK. -60 years earlier, in Punch, we have this cartoon. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:24 | |
There's the ballot box again. | 0:03:24 | 0:03:25 | |
There's the ballot box again, and the pistol. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:28 | |
And the fact that the likes of Rowel Friers, | 0:03:28 | 0:03:30 | |
I grew up on his political cartoons, | 0:03:30 | 0:03:32 | |
and Ian Knox is the current social commentator, | 0:03:32 | 0:03:35 | |
did they have to have a huge knowledge | 0:03:35 | 0:03:38 | |
of previous cartoon history? | 0:03:38 | 0:03:40 | |
Is that almost coming with the job? | 0:03:40 | 0:03:43 | |
The two that you mentioned, | 0:03:43 | 0:03:45 | |
they have their own intellectual view | 0:03:45 | 0:03:48 | |
of not just life, but of art, as well. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:52 | |
And it's a symbiotic combination of that in the cartoonist. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:56 | |
And that's what gives their personal slant on the issues of the day, | 0:03:56 | 0:04:00 | |
but also the way they depict it in art. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:02 | |
-And, of course, they have to be funny. -They do. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:05 | |
The best cartoons would bring a laugh or anger in an instant. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
Cartoons are very much like a joke. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:11 | |
If you have to explain it, it's not worth telling. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
The punchline has to be got immediately, | 0:04:14 | 0:04:16 | |
and the best cartoonists are masters at this. | 0:04:16 | 0:04:20 | |
John Killen, thank you so much. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:22 | |
We're going to bring Ulster cartoons right up-to-date. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:25 | |
You may not know him, but you will most definitely know his work. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:29 | |
Cartoonist Ian Knox has been documenting political life here | 0:04:29 | 0:04:33 | |
through his cartoons for nearly a quarter of a century | 0:04:33 | 0:04:36 | |
for the Irish News, and you will know his work | 0:04:36 | 0:04:38 | |
from BBC Northern Ireland's | 0:04:38 | 0:04:40 | |
former political programme Hearts And Minds. | 0:04:40 | 0:04:42 | |
We went to his Belfast studio to witness his quick wit | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
and his even quicker drawing skills. | 0:04:46 | 0:04:48 | |
Order, order, order! | 0:04:52 | 0:04:54 | |
Order! | 0:04:54 | 0:04:56 | |
It's a matter of pride for me that I draw things the way I want. | 0:04:57 | 0:05:00 | |
It's ideas-driven. It's a high form of activity. But it ain't art. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:07 | |
I always hope my mirror to what the world will be really distorted! | 0:05:10 | 0:05:14 | |
That's what I do. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:17 | |
I'm a distorter of the truth, and a bringer of the truth, | 0:05:17 | 0:05:19 | |
but I do it through distortion. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:21 | |
And the more distorted, the better. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:24 | |
I like surreal worlds, | 0:05:24 | 0:05:25 | |
that the punter sees something bizarre and weird. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:29 | |
People like a fantasy world in a political cartoon. | 0:05:35 | 0:05:38 | |
They like to be taken slightly away from the grim reality | 0:05:38 | 0:05:41 | |
into a slightly different kind of grim reality. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:44 | |
The political cartoonist knows which props to throw into corners | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
and how to light the thing, how to make the composition work. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
Satire's about getting at the truth, it's not necessarily... | 0:05:54 | 0:05:58 | |
Although you may go overboard to caricature it, | 0:05:58 | 0:06:00 | |
you're not actually trying to come up with | 0:06:00 | 0:06:03 | |
something that isn't the truth. | 0:06:03 | 0:06:05 | |
If you were, people would soon get fed up with it. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:07 | |
Edwin certainly was quite statuesque in his individuality. | 0:06:11 | 0:06:15 | |
He doesn't have a short neck. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:17 | |
I construct the character I want to be in my cartoon. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:21 | |
And I give them the personality I think they ought to have. | 0:06:21 | 0:06:25 | |
I don't study them to see what they're actually like. | 0:06:25 | 0:06:28 | |
Nigel Dodds, looking the way he does, he makes my job much easier. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:35 | |
He has something of the night about him, I think. | 0:06:35 | 0:06:38 | |
I definitely think of him as somebody who you would see | 0:06:38 | 0:06:41 | |
as the light's beginning to fade | 0:06:41 | 0:06:43 | |
somewhere in North Belfast, near an old ruined building. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:46 | |
Gerry Adams is one of the very few upper-teeth men. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
And, of course, Ian Paisley is probably the only person | 0:06:51 | 0:06:54 | |
who's caricatured all around the world, as he was, | 0:06:54 | 0:06:56 | |
with his mouth open. | 0:06:56 | 0:06:58 | |
He's never shown with his mouth closed. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:00 | |
That's what caricature's all about, really, | 0:07:03 | 0:07:06 | |
finding that thing which is unique and putting it down, | 0:07:06 | 0:07:10 | |
and not just the way it is - the way it isn't. | 0:07:10 | 0:07:13 | |
I do four of these each week for the Irish News. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:19 | |
Which is as much as I possibly could do, I think. | 0:07:20 | 0:07:25 | |
I'm getting on, you know. | 0:07:25 | 0:07:27 | |
I operate on panic, due to basic laziness. | 0:07:29 | 0:07:32 | |
So, if there wasn't something like a deadline, | 0:07:32 | 0:07:34 | |
I would never, ever do anything at all. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:36 | |
So, there's panic, and then there's insight, then there's genius. | 0:07:36 | 0:07:42 | |
And then there's the drawing, and then you relax until tomorrow. | 0:07:42 | 0:07:47 | |
Political issues are fascinating. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:50 | |
The world is all about political issues. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:52 | |
It's not a job I would ever in a million years want to do. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:56 | |
I wouldn't be any good at it. | 0:07:56 | 0:07:58 | |
I can't organise anything. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:00 | |
I'd be totally useless. I'd only make the problems worse. | 0:08:00 | 0:08:03 | |
But that doesn't stop me | 0:08:03 | 0:08:04 | |
having a go at other people who get it wrong, as well. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:07 | |
I draw for a paper which is predominantly nationalist, | 0:08:13 | 0:08:17 | |
or non-unionist, and yet nearly all the feedback I get, | 0:08:17 | 0:08:20 | |
rightly, from politicians is from unionists. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
They're the ones who want originals, not the nationalists. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:26 | |
There's a kind of discipline about nationalists | 0:08:26 | 0:08:30 | |
which means that the cartoons are not quite as funny. | 0:08:30 | 0:08:33 | |
The whole world of unionism is much wilder and wackier. | 0:08:36 | 0:08:39 | |
Well, we have this extraordinary Keystone Cop-type day | 0:08:42 | 0:08:45 | |
with the UDA driving into Larne and taking it over | 0:08:45 | 0:08:50 | |
and doing pretty much what they wanted. | 0:08:50 | 0:08:52 | |
So, it struck me that all the money that's been pumped into the UDA, | 0:08:52 | 0:08:57 | |
they should really invest in a fleet of their own official cars | 0:08:57 | 0:09:01 | |
so they could go on patrol up front. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:04 | |
I suppose I want people, when they see the cartoon, | 0:09:08 | 0:09:11 | |
to think, "He's got it exactly right." | 0:09:11 | 0:09:13 | |
And, "That's very funny," and to laugh and be entertained by it. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:18 | |
I don't expect to change their point of view. It'd be nice if they did. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:23 | |
The way I do it is I mainly slightly subvert their preconceptions. | 0:09:23 | 0:09:28 | |
That's the most, I think, I could aim for. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:30 | |
But the day I actually think that I'm changing people's minds | 0:09:30 | 0:09:34 | |
is the day that you can send for the guys in the white coats. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:37 | |
Because that'll never happen. | 0:09:37 | 0:09:39 | |
And if I ever think that that's happening, I'm going to jack it in. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:44 | |
Currently running at the Ulster Museum in Belfast | 0:09:55 | 0:09:59 | |
is a major exhibition, Art Of The Troubles. | 0:09:59 | 0:10:02 | |
In partnership with Wolverhampton Art Gallery, it's a challenging | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
and sometimes controversial body of work. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:08 | |
Eamonn Mallie was a reporter here throughout the Troubles. | 0:10:08 | 0:10:11 | |
He gives us his personal reflections from the very unique perspective | 0:10:11 | 0:10:15 | |
of both a chronicler of the era and a 20th-century art lover. | 0:10:15 | 0:10:19 | |
What we see here is a combination | 0:10:31 | 0:10:33 | |
at the hands of FE McWilliam, the Banbridge sculptor, | 0:10:33 | 0:10:37 | |
is a marrying together of the beauty of the female form | 0:10:37 | 0:10:42 | |
and the ugliness of war. | 0:10:42 | 0:10:44 | |
This piece of work is more emblematic, I think, | 0:10:44 | 0:10:48 | |
of our Troubles than anything else | 0:10:48 | 0:10:51 | |
we have in this exhibition here in the Ulster Museum. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:54 | |
This is the equivalent of Pablo Picasso's painting of Guernica, | 0:10:54 | 0:10:59 | |
bombed, in northern Spain. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:01 | |
McWilliam captured the end product, the horror, the ugliness, | 0:11:01 | 0:11:06 | |
the grotesqueness of violence arising from the Abercorn bombing | 0:11:06 | 0:11:10 | |
in this particular piece of work. | 0:11:10 | 0:11:12 | |
Some of the artists who are hanging on the walls, | 0:11:29 | 0:11:32 | |
they're not art as we would readily identify with the Troubles. | 0:11:32 | 0:11:35 | |
For example, Terry Flanagan. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:37 | |
Terry Flanagan was a beautifully lyrical landscape painter, | 0:11:37 | 0:11:41 | |
and here he is portraying a dead figure. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
This was a response, we're advised, to the death of Mr Flanagan's friend. | 0:11:46 | 0:11:52 | |
CROWD CHEERING, DRUMS AND FLUTES PLAYING | 0:11:57 | 0:12:01 | |
The artist Joe McWilliams is a very political painter. | 0:12:08 | 0:12:11 | |
He's done Gerry Adams, he's done Padraig Pearse, | 0:12:11 | 0:12:15 | |
he's done a lot of the Irish figures of history. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
In painting Sammy Wilson, Ian Paisley and Peter Robinson, the artist | 0:12:19 | 0:12:24 | |
is focusing very specifically on his take at a particular | 0:12:24 | 0:12:29 | |
moment in time on the Democratic Unionist Party | 0:12:29 | 0:12:32 | |
and, clearly, it is not a very edifying take. | 0:12:32 | 0:12:35 | |
Clearly, he has very considerable - from what I see here - | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
contempt for these individuals. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:40 | |
Sammy Wilson, the Lord Mayor of Belfast - | 0:12:40 | 0:12:44 | |
he's like the court jester. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:46 | |
There is something menacing about this mirror image, almost, | 0:12:46 | 0:12:51 | |
sitting on Ian Paisley's shoulder. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:53 | |
And yet you get that in contrast to the guffawing, avuncular, | 0:12:54 | 0:12:59 | |
larger-than-life Paisley, | 0:12:59 | 0:13:01 | |
the television image which people would know of Ian Paisley. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:04 | |
I can only conclude that the artist is conveying another message. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:09 | |
If you notice, there's a yellow streak | 0:13:09 | 0:13:12 | |
down the middle of Mr Robinson's face. | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
But who knows? Not a very flattering triptych, I have to say. | 0:13:16 | 0:13:22 | |
This painting by Conrad Atkinson | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
is living proof of how times have changed. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:39 | |
For the better, I should say. | 0:13:39 | 0:13:40 | |
In 1978, there was uproar | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
when Atkinson wanted it hung on a wall here in the museum. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:46 | |
There was an objection by the trustees, there was | 0:13:46 | 0:13:48 | |
an objection by staff, I'm told, et cetera, et cetera. | 0:13:48 | 0:13:51 | |
It's hanging here today. Would anyone notice? I doubt it. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:55 | |
The world is changing. What's happening now? | 0:13:55 | 0:13:58 | |
Martin McGuinness dining with the Queen. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:00 | |
CACOPHONOUS METALLIC BANGING | 0:14:02 | 0:14:05 | |
This exhibit piece of art is called An Bhearna Bhaoil. | 0:14:06 | 0:14:11 | |
Now, An Bhearna Bhaoil means "the gap of danger". | 0:14:11 | 0:14:16 | |
This is a tying of history and reality on the ground together. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:20 | |
The banging of the bin lids was the quickest way to get the word out | 0:14:23 | 0:14:27 | |
to people who might have been wanted by the police, | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
who might have been hiding in a so-called safe house. | 0:14:30 | 0:14:33 | |
So, in a sense, these bin lids were the Facebook | 0:14:33 | 0:14:38 | |
and the Twitter of that era. | 0:14:38 | 0:14:40 | |
It's the genius of the artist, Locky Morris, to see how | 0:14:42 | 0:14:46 | |
this simple bin lid could be seen in a sense of otherness. | 0:14:46 | 0:14:52 | |
That's what distinguishes the ordinary artist | 0:14:52 | 0:14:55 | |
from the extraordinary. | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
EXPLOSION | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
Having come in to see the exhibition for the first time, | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
my visceral response was one of tension. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:11 | |
Tension in my chest. | 0:15:11 | 0:15:13 | |
Maybe it's because I lived through this period. | 0:15:14 | 0:15:17 | |
Maybe it's because I was there in the aftermath of so many | 0:15:17 | 0:15:22 | |
of the killings portrayed here, of the shootings, of the bombing scenes. | 0:15:22 | 0:15:26 | |
So, hence this sense of tension for me | 0:15:28 | 0:15:32 | |
as a living reporter, as somebody who, thank God, | 0:15:32 | 0:15:36 | |
survived the era, the period. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:38 | |
And the Art Of The Troubles exhibition continues | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
until 7th September. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:48 | |
Now, when a politician gets their photographic portrait taken, | 0:15:48 | 0:15:52 | |
it's a rare chance for us to look them squarely in the face. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:55 | |
But they may end up revealing | 0:15:55 | 0:15:57 | |
an awful lot more than they'd bargained for. | 0:15:57 | 0:15:59 | |
Noel Thompson went to Downpatrick to meet a man who has had many | 0:15:59 | 0:16:03 | |
of our local politicians staring down his lens over the years - | 0:16:03 | 0:16:06 | |
Bobbie Hanvey. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:08 | |
We live in an age when we're bombarded with moving images | 0:16:13 | 0:16:17 | |
of politicians 24 hours a day. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:20 | |
But a single moment frozen in time can define for ever | 0:16:20 | 0:16:23 | |
the way we think of a person. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
If you go somewhere like that, look, | 0:16:26 | 0:16:28 | |
-you can do different things, you know? -Yeah. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:31 | |
'Bobbie Hanvey has used the power of the portrait to explore | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
'the torturous political landscape of Northern Ireland, | 0:16:34 | 0:16:37 | |
'as I discovered on a shoot in an old hospital ward in his home town.' | 0:16:37 | 0:16:41 | |
Don't blink. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:43 | |
CAMERA CLICKS | 0:16:43 | 0:16:45 | |
What do you think has helped make you a successful portrait photographer? | 0:16:45 | 0:16:49 | |
The way I look. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:51 | |
I'm not threatening to men, I'm not threatening to women. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:54 | |
I don't look great, | 0:16:54 | 0:16:56 | |
I'm not good-looking, | 0:16:56 | 0:16:58 | |
and no matter how unattractive some of the people that I'm taking are, | 0:16:58 | 0:17:04 | |
they always feel better when they look at me! | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:17:07 | 0:17:08 | |
Isn't that strange? | 0:17:08 | 0:17:09 | |
Are you always trying to get people to reveal something of themselves | 0:17:10 | 0:17:15 | |
that has not been seen before or that has not been seen publicly before? | 0:17:15 | 0:17:19 | |
-I try and get the dark side of people. -Mmm. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:21 | |
You know? I don't know how I do it. | 0:17:21 | 0:17:24 | |
I'm successful a lot of the time. Sometimes, I can't get it. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
Yes. Not everyone has a dark side. Or do you think everyone does? | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
Everybody has a dark side. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:32 | |
But if people knew you wanted to take their dark side, | 0:17:32 | 0:17:34 | |
maybe they wouldn't be so happy about posing for you. | 0:17:34 | 0:17:37 | |
Most hard men and paramilitaries like their dark side to be seen, | 0:17:38 | 0:17:42 | |
because that's how they're known. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:43 | |
And I say to some of the paramilitaries | 0:17:43 | 0:17:45 | |
when I'm taking them, "Look at me as if you were going to kill me." | 0:17:45 | 0:17:49 | |
Close your eyes a wee second, there's dust in your eyes. Duck. | 0:17:52 | 0:17:55 | |
Got him! An old trick I learned in Belfast! | 0:17:55 | 0:17:57 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:17:57 | 0:17:59 | |
Over five decades, Bobbie has worked in many different genres, | 0:18:00 | 0:18:03 | |
from daily news to longer-term projects, | 0:18:03 | 0:18:06 | |
like the last days of the RUC. | 0:18:06 | 0:18:08 | |
Where do you rate your portraits in that body of work? | 0:18:11 | 0:18:15 | |
I'd rate them at the top. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:17 | |
Because that's what I really wanted to do, photograph people close up, | 0:18:17 | 0:18:22 | |
getting into their eyes, even getting into their soul. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:24 | |
Sometimes I managed it, and sometimes I didn't, | 0:18:24 | 0:18:27 | |
-but that's it. -Let's go and look. -OK. | 0:18:27 | 0:18:29 | |
So, there you have Ian Paisley up at the level of Carson at Stormont. | 0:18:33 | 0:18:37 | |
Tell us about the background to this picture! | 0:18:37 | 0:18:39 | |
It was September 1985. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:43 | |
Got his number and phoned him up and I said, | 0:18:43 | 0:18:46 | |
"Dr Paisley, Bobbie Hanvey here. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:47 | |
"Yes, my friend, what can I do for you?" | 0:18:47 | 0:18:50 | |
I said, "I want to put you up in the air, 40 or 50 foot, | 0:18:50 | 0:18:53 | |
"in a cherry picker, beside Lord Carson's statue, | 0:18:53 | 0:18:56 | |
"and I want to go up in a cherry picker, as well, | 0:18:56 | 0:18:58 | |
"and take you like that." | 0:18:58 | 0:19:00 | |
He says, "When are we going up?" | 0:19:00 | 0:19:02 | |
Bobbie has shot portraits of paramilitary leaders on all sides. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:06 | |
This one of Buck Alec Robinson | 0:19:08 | 0:19:10 | |
and Gusty Spence reveals something unexpected. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
So, this is a photograph of two generations of loyalist gunmen. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
What message did you want the picture to get across? | 0:19:18 | 0:19:21 | |
They just look like ordinary people. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:25 | |
You know, they look like us. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:27 | |
-Alex looks like an old man, which he is. -He is. | 0:19:27 | 0:19:30 | |
And Gusty's just happy and pleased to be there | 0:19:30 | 0:19:32 | |
and there's no dark side to Gusty in that shot, you know what I mean? | 0:19:32 | 0:19:36 | |
-They do what they have to do. -They've convinced themselves | 0:19:38 | 0:19:40 | |
that there's a just cause for what they're doing. | 0:19:40 | 0:19:43 | |
'Other portraits reveal something very different.' | 0:19:43 | 0:19:46 | |
Cathal Goulding, chief of staff for the Official IRA. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:49 | |
How about that? When he looked at me, it was like me looking at death. | 0:19:51 | 0:19:56 | |
Death. | 0:19:56 | 0:19:58 | |
And the eyes are the things | 0:19:58 | 0:20:00 | |
in that Cathal Goulding shot that stand out. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
You say they're dead eyes? | 0:20:03 | 0:20:05 | |
It's like looking at death. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:07 | |
Very nice man. | 0:20:07 | 0:20:09 | |
I liked him. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:10 | |
Do you feel that they liked the thought of being recorded | 0:20:10 | 0:20:14 | |
for posterity, that a good photograph of them is something | 0:20:14 | 0:20:18 | |
that will always be a record of them and their ego? | 0:20:18 | 0:20:22 | |
It's not them and their ego, it's them and their tradition. | 0:20:22 | 0:20:26 | |
A lot of people mightn't like them, but they had the support and, | 0:20:26 | 0:20:31 | |
whether we like it or not, they ran Northern Ireland for 30 years. | 0:20:31 | 0:20:34 | |
Nobody could stop it. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:35 | |
I don't want to photograph politicians any more. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:43 | |
Why? | 0:20:45 | 0:20:46 | |
Because I don't believe them any more. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:49 | |
I think people were more honest during the Troubles. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:52 | |
And is that what you think or what you try to capture with your lens, | 0:20:52 | 0:20:56 | |
that honesty, that rawness? | 0:20:56 | 0:20:58 | |
There's an awful honesty about brutality. | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
OK. Let's have a look at me here. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:06 | |
I look like bloody Keith Richards in that one! | 0:21:06 | 0:21:09 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:21:09 | 0:21:10 | |
Originally commissioned by BBC Two Northern Ireland, | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
it's a film with no story | 0:21:25 | 0:21:27 | |
and very little dialogue is spoken for most of its 40 minutes. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:31 | |
But it was produced by a future Oscar winner, Danny Boyle, | 0:21:31 | 0:21:34 | |
and directed by revered film maverick Alan Clarke. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:37 | |
25 years on, Elephant is now at cult status, | 0:21:37 | 0:21:40 | |
considered to be one of the most striking and dramatic portrayals | 0:21:40 | 0:21:44 | |
of the Troubles. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:46 | |
In 1987, Danny Boyle, then head of the drama department | 0:21:52 | 0:21:56 | |
at BBC Northern Ireland, invited director Alan Clarke to Belfast | 0:21:56 | 0:22:01 | |
to discuss a new screenplay for a BBC Two drama about the RUC. | 0:22:01 | 0:22:06 | |
One of the writers, Chris Ryder, took him on a tour of the city. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:11 | |
Here you were, driving along a suburban street. | 0:22:12 | 0:22:14 | |
Then all of a sudden there would be a house and I would have told them, | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
"Well, at three o'clock one morning, somebody hammered the door | 0:22:18 | 0:22:21 | |
"and as soon as the front door was opened | 0:22:21 | 0:22:23 | |
"the person in it was gunned down." | 0:22:23 | 0:22:25 | |
What struck him was the calm brutality of it all. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
Clarke went back to Danny Boyle with an idea for a very different film, | 0:22:30 | 0:22:34 | |
showing a series of sectarian murders | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
with no explanations and no real beginning or end. | 0:22:37 | 0:22:40 | |
It would mirror the deadly stalemate here, | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
the unmentionable elephant in the room. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:45 | |
Elephant was the first time I'd ever stood in front of a camera, | 0:22:45 | 0:22:48 | |
the first part I'd never got in any kind of a film. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:52 | |
So, it made it all the more exciting for me on the day. | 0:22:52 | 0:22:54 | |
I had to walk along here, nice and gently, | 0:22:54 | 0:22:56 | |
without drawing any attention to myself particularly. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:59 | |
I had to ring on that doorbell and then I had to wait | 0:22:59 | 0:23:02 | |
for what felt at the time like an eternity | 0:23:02 | 0:23:04 | |
before somebody actually came to the door and answered it. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:06 | |
GUNSHOTS | 0:23:11 | 0:23:13 | |
But Alan Clarke was fastidious in exactly | 0:23:13 | 0:23:14 | |
how he wanted you to do what he wanted you to do. | 0:23:14 | 0:23:16 | |
I can remember talking at one point, saying to him, | 0:23:16 | 0:23:19 | |
"Do I know this guy? Do I hate this character? | 0:23:19 | 0:23:21 | |
"Is there venom behind what I'm doing here?" | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
He said, "Absolutely not." | 0:23:23 | 0:23:25 | |
He wanted nothing. he said, "No expression at all." | 0:23:25 | 0:23:27 | |
A documentary is people, | 0:23:27 | 0:23:29 | |
is one in which people portray themselves. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:32 | |
A drama is one in which actors are paid to portray other people. | 0:23:32 | 0:23:37 | |
OK. | 0:23:37 | 0:23:38 | |
And the poor guy died about there. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:40 | |
It's kind of a shock to see it. | 0:23:43 | 0:23:45 | |
It is a shock to see it. | 0:23:45 | 0:23:46 | |
And to see how simple the whole thing was. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:51 | |
You really did feel like you were... | 0:23:51 | 0:23:54 | |
It felt like you were looking at something very real. | 0:23:54 | 0:23:56 | |
But when you saw it in the end, it was quite stripped bare. | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
You felt kind of naked about it, I think. | 0:23:59 | 0:24:03 | |
Elephant was largely improvised on location, | 0:24:03 | 0:24:06 | |
a product of the director's imagination. | 0:24:06 | 0:24:08 | |
It was an unusual film, because, A, there was no script, | 0:24:08 | 0:24:13 | |
so we didn't really know what was happening. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:15 | |
Most of the crew didn't know from day-to-day | 0:24:15 | 0:24:17 | |
exactly what we were going to shoot. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:20 | |
GUNSHOT | 0:24:20 | 0:24:21 | |
The content was very unsettling for the crew | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
and I know a lot of crew didn't really want to work on it. | 0:24:27 | 0:24:30 | |
He spent a lot of time on his own, walking up and down | 0:24:31 | 0:24:34 | |
with a big coat on. | 0:24:34 | 0:24:36 | |
I don't think he was very well at the time, either. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:38 | |
Elephant was broadcast in January, 1989. | 0:24:40 | 0:24:43 | |
The following day, there were outraged accusations | 0:24:43 | 0:24:46 | |
that it sensationalised sectarian killing. | 0:24:46 | 0:24:49 | |
We wanted to try and bring to the attention of everybody, really, | 0:24:49 | 0:24:53 | |
who should be concerned about Northern Ireland | 0:24:53 | 0:24:55 | |
that the situation is continuing. | 0:24:55 | 0:24:57 | |
Some days you would have had tit for tats, | 0:24:57 | 0:24:59 | |
two in the morning, two in the afternoon.. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:02 | |
By stripping away all the propaganda, all the explanations, | 0:25:02 | 0:25:05 | |
the justifications, the "what about-tery" | 0:25:05 | 0:25:08 | |
that you had in Belfast, this was just a way to show that, | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
underneath it all, the core of it all was this regular, relentless, | 0:25:11 | 0:25:16 | |
coruscating sheer violence | 0:25:16 | 0:25:19 | |
with no rhyme nor reason in most cases. | 0:25:19 | 0:25:22 | |
It was becoming normal, and he was trying to show | 0:25:22 | 0:25:25 | |
that it wasn't normal, and I think that got a reaction | 0:25:25 | 0:25:29 | |
cos I think it made people think, | 0:25:29 | 0:25:31 | |
"Gosh, really, this isn't normal. This isn't a normal way to live. | 0:25:31 | 0:25:35 | |
"This isn't a normal society we're living in." | 0:25:35 | 0:25:38 | |
Clarke had been suffering from cancer throughout the shoot | 0:25:38 | 0:25:41 | |
and died the following year. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:43 | |
But for a film that was only shown once on television, | 0:25:43 | 0:25:46 | |
Elephant has been incredibly influential. | 0:25:46 | 0:25:49 | |
You talk to any director and they hear that you've worked on Elephant, | 0:25:49 | 0:25:52 | |
they're quite... They ask you questions. | 0:25:52 | 0:25:55 | |
I think a lot of film-makers took to heart | 0:25:55 | 0:25:59 | |
a lot of what Alan did in that movie. | 0:25:59 | 0:26:01 | |
In 2003, director Gus Van Sant | 0:26:03 | 0:26:05 | |
won the Palme d'Or at the Cannes Festival | 0:26:05 | 0:26:08 | |
for a film which borrowed heavily from Alan Clarke. | 0:26:08 | 0:26:11 | |
Depicting shootings at a US high school, his Elephant uses | 0:26:11 | 0:26:14 | |
the same unflinching tracking shots of victims and killers. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:18 | |
The camera just sits there. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:22 | |
It looks and it looks and it looks | 0:26:22 | 0:26:24 | |
and it won't let you tear your eyes away. | 0:26:24 | 0:26:26 | |
He was a very political film-maker. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:28 | |
In this case, he had a very, very precise point that he wanted to make | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
and I don't think you could have made it any better. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
Well, that's almost it from The Arts Show for this month. | 0:26:48 | 0:26:52 | |
You can join me live on Twitter now and you can keep up-to-date | 0:26:52 | 0:26:55 | |
with all arts and culture on BBC Radio Ulster's Arts Extra | 0:26:55 | 0:26:59 | |
weeknights at 6:30pm. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:01 | |
I'm back in May, but we leave you with another moment | 0:27:01 | 0:27:05 | |
from the BBC Two Northern Ireland archive. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
In 1993, a fresh-faced up-and-coming comedian | 0:27:08 | 0:27:12 | |
who knew how to spin the comic art of politics made his appearance | 0:27:12 | 0:27:15 | |
on the arts show The Hungry Eye. Good night. | 0:27:15 | 0:27:19 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:27:19 | 0:27:21 | |
Thanks very much. At the minute, we've got | 0:27:21 | 0:27:23 | |
a new battalion of the Army over here on our streets | 0:27:23 | 0:27:26 | |
and because they've taken their helmets off and put their berets on, | 0:27:26 | 0:27:29 | |
they're now called the Frank Spencer Regiment. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:32 | |
What's actually happening is, instead, at the checkpoints, | 0:27:32 | 0:27:35 | |
of them asking you for ID, they just stand at the window and go... | 0:27:35 | 0:27:38 | |
HE GIGGLES | 0:27:38 | 0:27:40 | |
And all the boys are having great fun with it in Belfast. | 0:27:42 | 0:27:44 | |
The lads are at the checkpoint, they go, "Excuse me. | 0:27:44 | 0:27:47 | |
"You got any means of identification on you?" "No, I haven't, mucker, | 0:27:47 | 0:27:50 | |
"but I'm Betty and she's Jessica. Know what I mean? | 0:27:50 | 0:27:53 | |
"Ah, go on, give us Phantom of the Opera." | 0:27:53 | 0:27:55 | |
"Tell you what, you stick the roller-skates on, | 0:27:55 | 0:27:57 | |
"I'll tow you down the road." | 0:27:57 | 0:27:59 | |
It's true. It's true. And also, I've noticed, culturally, | 0:28:00 | 0:28:03 | |
it's really, really good. Thomas the Tank Engine is actually now | 0:28:03 | 0:28:06 | |
in Irish over here, and I was thinking for Northern Ireland | 0:28:06 | 0:28:09 | |
they shouldn't have it in Irish, they should just abbreviate it. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:12 | |
For Northern Ireland, it should be Thomas the Tank. | 0:28:12 | 0:28:16 | |
Or maybe just Thomas the Saracen. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:19 | |
I think Ringo Starr could have a lot of fun with that. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:21 | |
It was a boring day for Thomas the Saracen | 0:28:21 | 0:28:24 | |
as he escorted the Republic of Ireland team to the ground. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:27 | |
Oh, there's a police checkpoint with the two Land Rovers, | 0:28:27 | 0:28:30 | |
Annie and Clarabell. | 0:28:30 | 0:28:31 | |
"Hello, Annie." "Hello, Thomas. Any means of identification?" | 0:28:31 | 0:28:35 | |
"Didn't you know, Annie? I'm in the Masons?" | 0:28:35 | 0:28:37 | |
"Oh, sorry, Thomas. On you go." | 0:28:37 | 0:28:40 | |
It's true. | 0:28:40 | 0:28:41 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:28:41 | 0:28:43 |