Face to Face: Ken Dodd The Late Show


Face to Face: Ken Dodd

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BBC Four Collections.

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Specially chosen programmes from the BBC archive.

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For this collection, Sir Michael Parkinson has selected

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BBC interviews with influential figures of the 20th century.

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More programmes on this theme and other BBC Four Collections

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are available on BBC iPlayer.

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WOLF HOWLS

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Ken Dodd, you're one of Britain's best-loved comedians.

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Some would insist that you're our greatest stand-up comic.

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What do you feel just before you go on stage?

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Er...very, very excited.

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Very, er... It's very thrilling.

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It's, er, a bit frightening, a little bit, er, little bit scary.

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Depending on the, er, the occasion, but very...

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Looking forward to it - I'm completely stage-struck.

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I just...just want to get on there and, er...

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Is it as terrifying as it used to be?

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Not quite, no.

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At one time I used to be terrified all the time.

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Now I'm just frightened some of the time.

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What's the first thing that you have to do to win over an audience?

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The first... I think the first...

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Ooh, the first 30 seconds is the most important part of the act.

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You, er, you have to get through to the audience right away.

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I think actors call it establishing a rapport.

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Gracie Fields used to say it was a silver thread went from the performer

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to the audience, and I call it building a bridge -

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you build a bridge between yourself and the audience.

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You try to make friends with them, you try to say, "Here I am, folks.

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"I'm harmless. I'm just going to tickle you,

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"tickle your minds and, er, try to make you laugh."

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Does it take longer to warm some audiences up than others?

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Depending on the... It's nothing to do with geography.

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It's nothing to do with where in the country, it's to do with the...

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And it's nothing to do with the...

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Sometimes it's to do with the weather.

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It's quite, er...funny sometimes, when you're playing a big theatre,

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like the Blackpool Opera House,

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and, er...and it's been raining during the day

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and you can actually see steam rising from the audience,

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like a little cloud above them.

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But some audiences, er... Some audiences are harder,

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if you like, than others - sometimes for no reason at all.

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I did two shows in the Southeast just last week -

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Canterbury and Gravesend.

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One was... One was absolutely uproarious,

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and the other just took a little bit more time to work on.

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And so you have to try just a little bit harder and, er,

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remember your timing and remember...

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Just... Just gauge when to, er, go for the laugh.

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A bit like, er... A bit like, er...

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A bit like a bullfighter, actually!

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Is it a wooing process of the audience...

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- Yes. - ..or is it an assault on them?

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Oh, no, no. It's very much a wooing.

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It looks like an assault.

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You start off with the quite... quite loud and...

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as you would, you go in with all guns firing

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and you go in with a lot of, er,

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a lot of facial expression and arm movements.

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Most of this is instinctive.

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It's not, er... You're just trying very, very hard.

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Maybe I'm trying too hard.

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And then you... As you feel the audience...

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An audience... No two audiences are alike.

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I've been 40 years in show business

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and obviously I've never done the same show twice.

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Because every audience is different -

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a different permutation of personalities.

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And you can see where the audience is quiet, where the audience are,

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you know, quite lively, so you have to coax these people

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and just keep this lot... keep them on the boil.

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Are you trying to control them?

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Yes. Yes, very much. It's, er... You're part...

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You're part-comedian, part-actor and part-orator.

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And what are you trying to do by controlling them?

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Try to, er... Try to give them a laugh.

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I always say you can't make anybody laugh, but you can give people...

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Laughter is inside everybody.

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Everybody has this laughter inside them.

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It's just waiting for you to try and just release it.

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So, you just have to coax them and sometimes you have to be,

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er...very, very well-mannered and other times, you can be quite cheeky

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and be a bit, you know, a bit hard-faced

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and, er, chide them a little bit.

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You're only... It's all... It's all done joshing, it's all mock.

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You go on quite a long time, sometimes, don't you?

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I do have a reputation of running a few seconds over, yes.

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This is because I...

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I love it so much and I love... making an audience laugh,

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giving an audience laughter, hearing...hearing laughter.

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Laughter is the most beautiful sound in the world,

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and when you've really got them... you've really got them rolling,

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it's a shame, really, to break up the party, but we don't go on...

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All audiences, they love to feel

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they're getting that little bit extra. It's, er...

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I think in an age when everything is sort of pre-packaged

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and you know exactly what you should be getting, it's nice to...

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It's nice to get a little, er...

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In the old days, you know, when they used to sell a loaf, there used to be

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a little knob on the top, and so,

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up north, they used to call it the jockey on the loaf.

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And it was a little bit extra. A baker's dozen, er...

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I like to give them a little bit extra,

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and they appreciate... the audience appreciate it.

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How long can you go on?

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Oh. Ah. Well, that's...

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I once did a marathon, er, for a charitable...for a charity,

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and I think we went just on about four hours.

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But is it a sort of macho thing, saying, "I can go on and on and on"?

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- No. - No?

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Oh, no. No, no.

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It's not a battle in which you're trying to...?

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Oh, no. No, no. Cos you should've...

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You should've won the battle very early on.

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If you haven't won the battle in the first five minutes...

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But I've heard you say, "I've beaten you," you know, "You're giving in."

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Oh, that's a gag. That's a gag. "Give in" is a gag.

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Give in, it means... It's like little boys say to give in.

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They all shout, "No!"

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I say, "Well, you better had - I'll give you a Chinese burn."

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You know, Chi... You know, with the wrist.

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You sometimes go very quickly.

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Yes, yes.

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I try to get as, er, as many laughs as I can in the time available.

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Er, I do mostly one-liners, mostly patter, er,

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and...one or two - not very many - joke stories.

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And even the joke stories have got one-liners in them.

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We try to work on about...well, if we can get seven laughs a minute,

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we're doing...we're OK. We're motoring.

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I would think so!

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Is a pause the most difficult thing you could try to do?

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Can you ever slow down? Do you ever slow down on stage?

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Oh, yes, sometimes you have to. Sometimes you have to.

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As I say, it's very, er...

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It's very like oratory, very like acting,

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that you have to know when to...

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Before the tag line comes in, you have to know when to pause -

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that is timing. Timing is the bits in between the gags.

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How do you learn timing?

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Mostly instinct, I think,

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and mostly trial and error and practice.

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I've been practising now to be a comedian for 40 years, so, er...

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- You're still practising? - Yes. Still very much so.

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I think one of the most wonderful things in your life

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is to know that you've learnt something new.

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- You were born in Knotty Ash. - That's it.

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- Near Liverpool. - Yes.

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When were you born?

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Now, I've read different dates,

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so I'm going to ask you to tell me when you were born.

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Well, a lot of people say, you know, "How old are you?"

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And I tell everybody, "I think I'm 35."

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Yeah, but you're not!

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I think I'm 35, because I think a man is as old as he thinks he is,

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and my brain is 35, and I feel like I'm 35,

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and when I was 35, I had some marvellous times

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and my...my...my personality and my conscious life was wonderful.

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So I'm 35.

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You're not going to tell me when you were born.

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I was, er...

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If you ask...

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When you ask a comedian a question, you might get two answers -

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you'll get the comedian's answer,

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because he desperately wants to, er, impress you

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and desperately wants to make you laugh, and then you'll get the truth.

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So the comedian's answer - I was born...

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I was born at a very early age, so I should be near to my mother,

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and, er, I was born one day and...

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we were so poor the lady next door had me.

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I was a clever sort of... I was very clever. Clever baby.

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When I was six months old, I could walk.

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The bottom fell out of the pram.

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You said... The implication of that is that there are two people -

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- the comedian and the real you. - Yes, indeed, yes.

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- Is that right? - Yes, that's correct, yes.

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How different is the real you from the comic?

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Er, I think he'd like to be like the comic.

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He'd like to be, er, sort of... the hail-fellow-well-met.

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He'd like to be the laughing chap all the time, you know?

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Full of # Happiness... #, all that.

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But, of course, it isn't, because life has its trials and tribulations,

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and I do like to think seriously about certain things.

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Very seriously.

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Yeah. Now, you're not going to tell me when you were born -

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whether it was '31 or '29 or 1927,

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but you are going to tell me who your father was.

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- Yes. - Who was he?

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Arthur. Arthur Dodd.

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What did he do for a living?

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He was a coal merchant.

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What sort of person was he?

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Wonderful, marvellous.

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You say that about your dad, don't you?

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He was a very, very funny man, a loving man, a warm man.

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I had a marvellous childhood and, er, he was always...

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He would make things for us, he would make...

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He was very, very clever with his hands and making things.

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- I'm useless. - Was he a hard-working man?

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A very, very... I never saw anybody work as hard as that man.

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Well, maybe you work as hard as he did. Was he a driven man?

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He was driven because he had three children and a wife.

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And, er, times were very hard

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and he lived through the coal strike of nineteen-twenty...

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- Six. - ..six. 1926.

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He also, for a time, was a professional musician...

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during that coal strike,

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and, er...he had a wonderful sense of humour.

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He was a great clown. He had a very, very, very, very funny face.

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He could pull faces and, er, he was a lovely man.

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Having said that, I think...

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during your life and in the later part of your life,

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you realise what a complex relationship father and son are,

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and you have to, er...

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You have to...

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You learn that some of the times

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when perhaps you found life difficult -

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the relationship with your father -

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was sometimes due to some of the things

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you're now experiencing yourself.

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Sometimes, er, your health.

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Sometimes the fact you're growing older,

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sometimes that you're in the autumn of your life.

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There are many, many... There are many things you wish you...

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What were the difficulties in your relationship?

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Oh, only... Only that...

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I think every son argues with his father.

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You don't argue with your mother, you argue with your father.

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- Tell me about your mother. - She was lovely, she was wonderful.

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She was a small lady, so I tell everybody I had a mini mum.

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And she was very optimistic.

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My father was more, er...

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He was more... He insisted that you get things right,

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but my mother was very optimistic and always...

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She said to me when I first started

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being an entertainer, as a child, and...

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..whenever I would go, she would help me to pack my things together

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and she'd say...

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I remember she said to me once,

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"I don't care what you do, Kenny, as long as you wear a clean shirt."

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When you were a very small baby -

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18 months old - you were very, very ill.

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- Is that right? - Yes. Yes.

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Did that... Were you aware of that?

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You obviously weren't particularly aware of it at the time.

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Were you aware of it later on, that you'd been so ill?

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Yes, I was quite, er... Quite...quite thin,

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and, er, I've always had this sort of, the wheeze.

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And, er... But...

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But did your parents feel that there was something special about you

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because you'd survived this terrible double pneumonia as an infant?

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I think so, yes. I think so, yes, yes.

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We, the three of us - I've got an older brother, Bill,

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and a younger sister, June -

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and we all got equal shares of love and attention.

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I'm sure we did. Absolutely, we insisted on that.

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You were surrounded by love.

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- Oh, very much so, very much so. - Does a comedian,

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out there on the stage, need to be surrounded by love?

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Yes.

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Is that what wooing an audience is about?

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Yes. Yes. You're really...

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There's part of you that's still a child,

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that's asking for appreciation, asking for...

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Asking for approval, asking for love.

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There's part of you that's really asking for approval all the time,

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and the terrifying thing is the fear of rejection.

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If an audience rejects you, that's terrible, that's awful.

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So, all the time you're trying to say,

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"Please, please, please accept what I'm doing."

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Would other comedians agree with that description of what it's like?

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I don't know. I don't know.

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Er, I think so. I see behind their eyes.

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I watch other comedians.

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I love watching comedians,

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I will go anywhere to watch a comedian,

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cos every comedian has a good night and a bad night,

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and if you get them on a good night,

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it's marvellous - you feel part of them, you know,

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you're sharing their triumph.

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And on a bad night, if a comedian is, well, dying,

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you feel so sympathetic for them, you really want...

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You're willing them to do something that's going to make things right.

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So, yes, I think they are...

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Once again, I think they're asking for appreciation,

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asking for people to like them, asking for friendship,

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asking for love.

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When did you first find out you could make people laugh?

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I started...

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Oh, I was one of these little boys that used to...

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My father used to take us to variety theatres -

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well, all sorts of theatres, but mostly variety.

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He loved variety and he loved comedians

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and he used to take us every week to perhaps one

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or even two variety shows.

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And as a small boy, you know, boys watch railway trains

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and they always want to be the engine driver.

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But it always seemed to me that

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the engine driver in a show was always the comedian.

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He was the top fellow, the top of the bill, so I wanted to be a comedian.

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Well, I couldn't do it right away,

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cos I was only about seven or eight years old,

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and I used to read these books called The Wizard.

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Comics - The Wizard, The Hotspur, The Rover -

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and they were always about heroes, and I wanted to be a hero.

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I wanted to be a hero, I wanted to discover some new land.

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I wanted to be... I wanted to be...

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You wanted to be loved for being... for doing something marvellous.

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I wanted to be a hero as well! I had a lot of ambition.

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And I used to read these advertisements

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at the back of these comics,

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and one day I saw these...

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Always about a firm here in London,

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and they used to sell things like, er,

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itching powder and a Seebackroscope,

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which is thing you put in your eye

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and you can see if an assassin is creeping up behind you,

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which is very essential for a boy of eight.

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- In the playground? - Uh-huh.

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So I saw this advertisement one day and it said, "Fool your teachers,

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"amaze your friends, send 6p in stamps, become a ventriloquist."

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So I did, didn't I? Yes. See?

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And I...

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My father bought me this, er, ventriloquial figure

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and I started doing little concerts.

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My first was at an orphanage just near, er,

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Knotty Ash, where I live.

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My dad wrote the script and that was my first show at about eight,

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and then I did everything - any school concerts...

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oh, Froth-Blowers' hot pots, dockers' soirees.

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I met these people -

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a lady called Hilda Fallon - in Liverpool,

0:15:580:16:00

who ran a concert party and I joined their troupe and I did sort of, er,

0:16:000:16:06

any kind of show we could. Any show, we'd get a show.

0:16:060:16:09

You worked as a salesman for a living at one point in your life.

0:16:090:16:13

I helped my father in his business

0:16:130:16:14

for a while with my brother Bill, and then I...

0:16:140:16:17

Once again, I wanted to be a hero, so I struck out on my own and I had

0:16:170:16:21

this sort of hardware business,

0:16:210:16:22

and I think that's where I learned...

0:16:220:16:25

Pots, polishes and lotions and stuff?

0:16:250:16:27

That sort of thing, yes.

0:16:270:16:28

And that was on the knocker on the door?

0:16:280:16:30

At first, at first, and then I had a shop and I used to...

0:16:300:16:33

That's how I learnt to sell things. Well, really to sell yourself.

0:16:330:16:36

You learn how to look people in the eye and try to sell things to them,

0:16:360:16:41

and I think, er...

0:16:410:16:43

Could you sell me a pot of something if you set your mind to it?

0:16:430:16:46

- Yes. - You could?

0:16:460:16:48

- Yes, I think so, yes. - How did you get your start

0:16:480:16:50

in show business proper?

0:16:500:16:52

I, er... As I say, I was doing all these local shows,

0:16:520:16:56

and then I did one or two shows in theatres.

0:16:560:17:00

Er, I did a show, for instance, in New Brighton,

0:17:000:17:03

an RAF Benevolent Fund show once,

0:17:030:17:06

on a Sunday, and an old chap there saw me -

0:17:060:17:09

a man called Dan Slater, who had been a comic

0:17:090:17:11

and also been a theatre manager.

0:17:110:17:13

And he sort of took over my management for a while

0:17:130:17:16

and got me some theatre shows,

0:17:160:17:19

just within sort of 50 miles of Merseyside.

0:17:190:17:22

Then he introduced me to a marvellous man -

0:17:220:17:25

a wonderful agent called Dave Forrester -

0:17:250:17:28

who took me on and took me from the Wigan Hippodrome,

0:17:280:17:32

where I did one of my very first shows where he saw me...

0:17:320:17:36

I was a guest artist in a show there.

0:17:360:17:39

Actually, it was...

0:17:390:17:40

I didn't know when I signed the contract, it was a nude show,

0:17:400:17:43

and I was put in as a sort of guest artist in the second half.

0:17:430:17:46

And they boasted that they had the only moving nude in the business,

0:17:460:17:50

cos in those days, they weren't allowed to move,

0:17:500:17:52

and a young lady was pushed across the stage on a bicycle.

0:17:520:17:56

So she was a moving nude, and I was on in that show

0:17:560:17:59

and he signed me up then, on a six-month probationary contract.

0:17:590:18:03

And he...

0:18:030:18:05

It lasted until two or three years ago, when he passed away at age 90,

0:18:050:18:10

but I always think he was 100 and kept 10% for himself.

0:18:100:18:13

But he... He...

0:18:130:18:15

Perhaps he was...

0:18:150:18:16

He took me from Wigan to the Palladium.

0:18:160:18:19

And where you had that amazing, successful run.

0:18:190:18:22

But you were fortunate, it seems to me,

0:18:220:18:25

that in those days - however long ago those days were and, again,

0:18:250:18:29

we're getting to the point

0:18:290:18:31

where you ought to be able to identify these dates -

0:18:310:18:33

you were fortunate to be working when the music hall tradition

0:18:330:18:36

in this country - such as at the Wigan Hippodrome...

0:18:360:18:40

- Yes, indeed. - ..was still alive,

0:18:400:18:41

was still happening.

0:18:410:18:43

You could get out there on the boards and work.

0:18:430:18:45

People call them music halls because...

0:18:450:18:47

They were variety theatres,

0:18:470:18:48

and music hall was a bit before that -

0:18:480:18:50

music hall was where people actually sat in the audience...

0:18:500:18:52

- OK, variety theatre. - More like the clubs,

0:18:520:18:54

but the variety theatres

0:18:540:18:55

and the giant... The big ones,

0:18:550:18:57

the big Moss Stoll tours were gradually

0:18:570:19:01

coming to the end of their life,

0:19:010:19:03

and I was very, very lucky and I turned professional in 1954 -

0:19:030:19:06

September 27th 1954 - at the Nottingham Empire,

0:19:060:19:10

and the next week was Leeds

0:19:100:19:11

and the following week was Sunderland,

0:19:110:19:13

and then up to the house of terror -

0:19:130:19:15

Glasgow Empire -

0:19:150:19:17

and down to Birmingham, Brighton.

0:19:170:19:20

And I played all these wonderful, marvellous theatres

0:19:200:19:23

and worked with some great stars, some big, big stars.

0:19:230:19:26

My second week was...

0:19:260:19:27

The first week was with Kenny Baker - the famous trumpeter -

0:19:270:19:31

who is still very much Kenny Baker, the famous trumpeter.

0:19:310:19:35

Then the second week was Suzette Tarry,

0:19:350:19:38

a wonderful lady who taught me how to take bows.

0:19:380:19:40

She said on the second night, on the Tuesday, she said,

0:19:400:19:42

"Young man, you have quite a good act,

0:19:420:19:44

"but you can't take bows for toffee.

0:19:440:19:46

"Would you like me to show you?" "Oh," I said, "Yes, please."

0:19:460:19:49

She said, "I shall be here every night when you come off the stage,

0:19:490:19:52

"and you do exactly what I do, what I tell you to do."

0:19:520:19:54

And so, every night for that week, as I came off, she told me

0:19:540:19:57

when to go on, when to hold back, when to take a long bow,

0:19:570:20:00

and she taught me how to take bows.

0:20:000:20:02

Who else did you learn from?

0:20:020:20:04

I learned from... I had wonderful heroes to look up to.

0:20:040:20:07

I think when you're trying to learn anything,

0:20:070:20:09

when you're trying to study any particular art,

0:20:090:20:11

I think you sort of look to the best,

0:20:110:20:13

and I worked with some of the best and some of the kindest people.

0:20:130:20:18

Jewel and Warriss, who were absolutely wonderful to me.

0:20:180:20:21

Little Arthur Askey, who was my hero!

0:20:210:20:24

So much energy, it was like seeing a firework display go off.

0:20:240:20:27

I worked with Ted Ray, who I think

0:20:270:20:29

was the best stand-up comic of them all.

0:20:290:20:32

I worked with Max Miller in Brighton.

0:20:320:20:34

I met Max and he was a wonderful person.

0:20:340:20:37

He was getting rather old then, but he was still a giant.

0:20:370:20:41

And Tommy Cooper... All the greats.

0:20:410:20:44

Where could you, or where could a successor to you, start now?

0:20:440:20:49

It would be a very different apprenticeship, wouldn't it?

0:20:490:20:51

Very. Even...

0:20:510:20:53

Even allowing for the fact that I believe there are now more theatres

0:20:530:20:57

in this country than there were 40 years ago -

0:20:570:20:59

that's an amazing fact, isn't it?

0:20:590:21:01

A lot of people think the theatres are all gone. No.

0:21:010:21:03

There are more theatres now,

0:21:030:21:04

but they're all smaller theatres - they're all 500-seater, 1,000-seater.

0:21:040:21:08

Every town, every city worthy of its salt - or gritting -

0:21:080:21:12

has its own civic theatre or a theatre run by a trust.

0:21:120:21:16

And there are thousands - hundreds, certainly -

0:21:160:21:19

probably thousands of theatres all over Britain.

0:21:190:21:21

I made a vow that I would play every one,

0:21:210:21:23

and I'm still probably only halfway through.

0:21:230:21:25

- Have you kept count? - Yeah. Well, not count.

0:21:250:21:27

Well, I could, I suppose, if I went through my date sheet,

0:21:270:21:30

but it's a lot. I've played some strange ones.

0:21:300:21:33

Some up in Shetlands, er...

0:21:330:21:35

oh...

0:21:350:21:36

in the Theatre in the Forest in the Lake District.

0:21:360:21:38

But all these theatres.

0:21:380:21:40

I was very lucky I was able to play all the big theatres

0:21:400:21:42

before they closed.

0:21:420:21:44

I, er...

0:21:440:21:46

I've played some very strange ones, too.

0:21:460:21:49

What's your comedy about?

0:21:490:21:52

My comedy is about giving people laughter.

0:21:520:21:54

Yeah, but what's the subject matter of it?

0:21:540:21:56

Happiness.

0:21:560:21:57

No, that's the end effect you're trying...

0:21:570:21:59

You're saying the targets?

0:21:590:22:01

- What are you trying to achieve? - The subject matter?

0:22:010:22:03

No, what do you make jokes about?

0:22:030:22:05

Jokes about, mostly...

0:22:050:22:06

All comedy, all humour, all jokes,

0:22:070:22:10

reflect the lives we live.

0:22:100:22:12

It reflects our lifestyle.

0:22:120:22:14

That is why a lot of jokes, a lot of American humour -

0:22:140:22:17

some American humour, a lot of American - doesn't travel very well

0:22:170:22:21

and a lot of our humour doesn't travel well over there.

0:22:210:22:23

And European humour, but it all reflects that...

0:22:230:22:26

So my jokes are about family life, er...

0:22:260:22:29

I start...

0:22:290:22:30

My act is like a kaleidoscope, if you will.

0:22:300:22:32

I go on first of all and I try to build the bridge

0:22:320:22:35

and I talk about the most important thing in the world - themselves.

0:22:350:22:39

- What's that? - Themselves.

0:22:390:22:41

- Right. - Then I talk about the place.

0:22:410:22:44

I josh the place, I have a little...

0:22:440:22:47

Tease them about the town they live in,

0:22:470:22:50

the city they live in, about the traffic systems and I say,

0:22:500:22:54

"This traffic system,

0:22:540:22:55

"you must be very proud - nobody'll ever find you now."

0:22:550:22:57

And that works in every city in Great Britain, cos every city

0:22:570:23:00

and every town in Great Britain has a traffic problem.

0:23:000:23:03

Then I talk about...

0:23:030:23:05

And gradually, you ingratiate yourself into their confidence,

0:23:050:23:08

so that then they trust you, they trust you with their minds.

0:23:080:23:12

They trust you with their sense of humour,

0:23:120:23:14

cos people are very proud of their sense of humour,

0:23:140:23:17

and they won't just let anybody tickle them.

0:23:170:23:19

Then, through the act,

0:23:190:23:21

you gradually get to the stage

0:23:210:23:23

where you can talk about being very...

0:23:230:23:25

very, er...surrealistic.

0:23:250:23:27

You can talk about men's legs

0:23:270:23:28

getting very lonely in their trousers,

0:23:280:23:30

in the dark all day.

0:23:300:23:33

How important is the fantasy language that you invent, as well?

0:23:330:23:36

I very rarely...

0:23:360:23:38

The fantasy language - the tattyfilariousness

0:23:380:23:40

and the discomknockerating -

0:23:400:23:42

that really is another...is another department.

0:23:420:23:44

That was more for, mmm...

0:23:440:23:47

More for the zany part of it,

0:23:470:23:49

and particularly in the children's humour section - the family audience.

0:23:490:23:53

I'd been professional about, er...

0:23:530:23:56

well, only about six months

0:23:560:23:57

and I discovered a brand-new audience.

0:23:570:23:59

When I started off, I was a front-cloth comic.

0:23:590:24:02

That's a comic that, er, goes on when the...

0:24:020:24:06

you know, the liberty horses are behind.

0:24:060:24:09

And, er, then I discovered a brand-new aud... The family audience.

0:24:090:24:12

The family audience of pantomime, the family audience of summer season,

0:24:120:24:16

where mums and dads took the children,

0:24:160:24:18

and their aunties and the uncles

0:24:180:24:20

and the grannies, and you have to find a completely new approach.

0:24:200:24:23

New subject matter, so I invented...

0:24:230:24:25

That's the language and the Diddymen.

0:24:250:24:27

I invented these little Diddymen for the children,

0:24:270:24:29

and the discomknockerating and the tattyfilariousness.

0:24:290:24:32

It's all trademarks - the hair, the teeth, the fingers, the eyes -

0:24:320:24:35

they're all trademarked to make you different

0:24:350:24:38

than any other humorist, different than any other comic.

0:24:380:24:40

You have to be different.

0:24:400:24:42

Can a comic be good-looking?

0:24:420:24:43

If he is, he has to do something about it.

0:24:440:24:47

And he has to...

0:24:470:24:48

- The teeth are deliberate. - I've always been cursed...

0:24:480:24:50

The teeth are deliberate. You could have had the teeth fixed.

0:24:500:24:52

- Oh, yes, yes, yes. - But it would, er...

0:24:520:24:54

I didn't know that. I didn't know that until about, er...

0:24:540:24:56

about ten years ago.

0:24:560:24:58

I was sitting in a dental surgery here in London, and he said,

0:24:580:25:02

"Well, that's it, Mr Dodd.

0:25:020:25:04

"Anything else we can do?"

0:25:040:25:05

Laughing, I said, "Yes, if you can straighten them."

0:25:050:25:08

"Oh, yes, we can do that for you."

0:25:080:25:10

"What?" And then I was left with this dilemma.

0:25:100:25:13

- My agent nearly had a relapse... - I should think, yeah.

0:25:130:25:15

..when I told her I was going to have my teeth straightened.

0:25:150:25:18

But, er, no, I think... you have to be able to go...

0:25:180:25:21

..and do all this stuff,

0:25:230:25:25

because...part of the psychology of humour is to make an audience

0:25:250:25:29

feel that they're superior to you.

0:25:290:25:31

You have to learn humility, you have to let people laugh at you.

0:25:310:25:34

It's very important that you...

0:25:340:25:36

And I don't mind, I don't mind people laughing at me. It's fine.

0:25:360:25:38

It's part of my job, I'm a jester.

0:25:380:25:41

Setting the family audience aside for another day,

0:25:410:25:44

how rude can you be?

0:25:440:25:46

I had... Once again, I had great heroes to look up to - Robb Wilton,

0:25:480:25:52

er...Tommy Handley and these giants...

0:25:520:25:55

these giant - not just comedians, they were humorists.

0:25:550:25:58

They were very creative people. Jimmy James said to me once, he said,

0:25:580:26:02

"See, Ken, there are people who say funny things,

0:26:020:26:04

"and people who say things funny,"

0:26:040:26:06

meaning the difference between a man who just tells jokes and a man who

0:26:060:26:10

actually sort of creates jokes,

0:26:100:26:12

creates the humour, creates them and acts them.

0:26:120:26:15

And I think... They didn't... They were never obscene.

0:26:150:26:19

They may have been slightly risque.

0:26:190:26:20

No, but you. How sexy is your act, in fact?

0:26:200:26:24

Oh, ah, well, yes.

0:26:240:26:25

Well, I... I like it to be spicy

0:26:250:26:29

and I like people to know that I'm very much a man

0:26:290:26:33

and I tell honeymoon jokes and I tell jokes about, er...

0:26:330:26:37

I say I'm a sex symbol for women who don't care.

0:26:370:26:41

And I do stuff like that, yes.

0:26:420:26:44

But, I mean, the tickling stick.

0:26:440:26:45

- The tickling stick. Well, that... - That's a sex symbol, isn't it?

0:26:450:26:48

Well, people have... but I think that's a phallus-y.

0:26:480:26:51

Yeah, but I know that, but it actually is a phallus, isn't it?

0:26:510:26:54

I mean, that's what it is.

0:26:540:26:55

No, I don't think so. Tickling, I think, can be...

0:26:550:26:58

Tickling can be innuendo.

0:26:580:27:00

Tickling can be sort of, "By Jove, missus, how tickled we are!"

0:27:000:27:03

That, yes, it's the...

0:27:030:27:05

You're talking about something that's getting into the area of,

0:27:050:27:08

er...the enjoyment of sex, but sex is a thing to be celebrated.

0:27:080:27:13

It's a wonderful thing. It's a...

0:27:130:27:15

It is happiness.

0:27:150:27:17

Isn't the essence of that that you're...

0:27:170:27:20

that you're pretending not to go the whole way,

0:27:200:27:23

but they're actually imagining it?

0:27:230:27:25

Well, yes, this is a very...

0:27:250:27:27

I think I learnt that from Max Miller.

0:27:270:27:29

Max Miller never told rude jokes.

0:27:290:27:31

Everybody thought that Max Miller was a blue comedian.

0:27:310:27:33

He was never a blue comedian. He always dared the audience to...

0:27:330:27:36

"Please, lady, lady, don't make me say it, lady, don't make me say it."

0:27:360:27:39

Yeah, but that's because he made them think it.

0:27:390:27:41

- He teased. - He didn't say it,

0:27:410:27:42

but made them think it.

0:27:420:27:44

He teased, he teased the audience. You do, of course.

0:27:440:27:46

I mean, if sex and even vulgarity and bawdiness...

0:27:460:27:50

Bawdiness is a wonderful thing.

0:27:500:27:52

It's a wonderful thing to celebrate being a human being.

0:27:520:27:55

Do you ever take a break?

0:27:550:27:57

Yes. Yes.

0:27:570:27:59

What do you do when you relax?

0:27:590:28:01

We like to travel.

0:28:010:28:03

Er...

0:28:030:28:04

Like to travel to interesting places.

0:28:040:28:07

Took you a long time, I've read somewhere, to go abroad.

0:28:070:28:09

Oh, no. That was a story at one time.

0:28:090:28:11

- That's a story. - I was very busy. I was very busy.

0:28:110:28:14

As I say, I started...

0:28:140:28:16

being a professional comedian in 1954,

0:28:160:28:19

and within ten years, I was starring at the London Palladium,

0:28:190:28:23

which wasn't bad.

0:28:230:28:24

And then, we did 42 weeks then went back the following...1967,

0:28:240:28:30

played another 40 weeks there,

0:28:300:28:32

played Windsor Castle, the Royal Household party.

0:28:320:28:34

- How did that go? - Very well! Very well!

0:28:340:28:37

I can remember singing Happiness - # Happiness, happiness # -

0:28:370:28:41

and...Her Majesty was just where you are now,

0:28:410:28:45

and I looked down and her hands were going on the arms there.

0:28:450:28:49

That was a wonderful...

0:28:520:28:53

I shall treasure that for the rest of my life.

0:28:530:28:55

You sing Happiness, and you obviously make...

0:28:550:28:58

- but can you give people happiness? - Yes.

0:28:580:29:00

Is happiness something everybody can have?

0:29:000:29:01

Yes, it's a attitude of mind, isn't it? It is an attitude of mind.

0:29:010:29:05

And, er, sometimes people,

0:29:050:29:07

when they're very depressed, can go to a show -

0:29:070:29:10

I'm very proud to say, they come to my shows -

0:29:100:29:13

and, feeling quite down, quite depressed sometimes,

0:29:130:29:17

for all sorts of reasons.

0:29:170:29:19

And we get, you know, they tell us afterwards that it was...it was...

0:29:190:29:24

for a few hours, it really gave them a lift.

0:29:240:29:27

Can you perform when you're not happy yourself?

0:29:270:29:30

It's... It's, er... You have to, actually.

0:29:310:29:34

No, you don't have to.

0:29:340:29:35

But you have chosen to, haven't you?

0:29:350:29:37

Yes, there is a...

0:29:370:29:39

Once again, it's like two people again.

0:29:390:29:40

It's, er...the private person,

0:29:400:29:44

before they go on stage,

0:29:440:29:46

might feel quite down or even...

0:29:460:29:49

just not feel like being the comedian at all,

0:29:490:29:53

but once the music starts and you're on, something happens -

0:29:530:29:58

you become another person.

0:29:580:29:59

And can that be true even if someone you love very much is ill?

0:29:590:30:04

It has happened, yes, yes.

0:30:040:30:06

Or someone you love very much has died?

0:30:060:30:08

- Yes. That has happened, yes. - Did you have to perform...

0:30:080:30:11

- Yes. - ..when your father died?

0:30:110:30:13

- Yes, I did, yes. - You didn't choose not to?

0:30:130:30:15

I didn't. I chose... Out of respect for him, I chose to do it.

0:30:150:30:19

Yeah.

0:30:190:30:20

Was that hard?

0:30:200:30:22

That particular night was very hard, yes.

0:30:220:30:25

Yes, that was very hard.

0:30:250:30:27

Is this going out there

0:30:270:30:29

and losing yourself in an audience

0:30:290:30:32

a sort of escape from the difficulties of life?

0:30:320:30:35

Not from the difficulties.

0:30:370:30:38

It's an escape to somewhere very, very happy.

0:30:380:30:40

I enjoy myself, I have the time of my life when I'm on the stage.

0:30:400:30:43

I really do, I enjoy every second of it.

0:30:430:30:45

Is the large part of your audiences women?

0:30:450:30:47

No, no.

0:30:480:30:49

I have a very, very...wonderful sort of...

0:30:490:30:53

wonderful spread of audiences.

0:30:530:30:54

I... I have... We have...

0:30:540:30:56

It seems to me that a lot of your act is addressed to women.

0:30:560:30:59

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Cos women do...

0:30:590:31:03

Ladies do have a better sense of humour - well, a more emotional

0:31:030:31:06

sense of humour - than men, cos women are more emotional than men.

0:31:060:31:09

Oh, yes. Men are much more...

0:31:090:31:11

They hold it and it's a bit more macho, isn't it,

0:31:110:31:14

to sort of keep it to...?

0:31:140:31:17

"Make me laugh!"

0:31:170:31:18

Whereas ladies, they really... They get it.

0:31:180:31:20

They're out for a good time. They enjoy themselves.

0:31:200:31:23

If you've ever been to a hen party...

0:31:230:31:26

Well, why is it that you manage to give them so good a time?

0:31:260:31:30

I enjoy it myself.

0:31:300:31:31

I love doing it and I take good care to try and get good material,

0:31:310:31:36

to try and write good material, to try and, er,

0:31:360:31:38

get other people to write me good material,

0:31:380:31:40

and I know a good joke when I see one,

0:31:400:31:42

and I only do my own - I'll only do my own material.

0:31:420:31:45

I mean, you come on to them as sexy but innocent, would you say?

0:31:450:31:47

Yes. Yes, I think so, yes.

0:31:470:31:49

I mean you wrap your rudeness

0:31:490:31:51

and sexiness in a sort of childlike...

0:31:510:31:53

- Yes, that is true. - ..quality.

0:31:530:31:55

Yes, that is so.

0:31:550:31:56

I mean, let me ask you seriously,

0:31:560:31:59

are you as good with...are you as popular with younger audiences,

0:31:590:32:03

or is there something that's pleasantly familiar

0:32:030:32:07

about your act for older audiences?

0:32:070:32:09

Every... Every ten years - I think every seven years,

0:32:090:32:12

but every ten years, you have to pass an exam again with the public.

0:32:120:32:16

You have to reinvent yourself, and you have to find...

0:32:160:32:19

You come up with something new,

0:32:190:32:21

or do something rather spectacular, and, er...

0:32:210:32:25

this is... Thank goodness I've been able to do this for 40 years.

0:32:250:32:29

I've either had a successful record or I've had a successful,

0:32:290:32:34

er, show in London in the West End that's brought me a lot of publicity,

0:32:340:32:39

or I've done a very successful... Perhaps a successful television show.

0:32:390:32:43

Er, as... Last year, we did a...a mega success - a mega success -

0:32:430:32:49

with a show called An Audience With...

0:32:490:32:51

and this was a big, big success

0:32:510:32:53

and this was... I've reinvented Ken Dodd again,

0:32:530:32:56

and now there's all sorts of teenagers

0:32:560:32:59

and boys and girls coming up

0:32:590:33:01

and saying, "We never realised that this sort of comedy...

0:33:010:33:04

"We thought comedy was all about swearing at the audience.

0:33:040:33:07

"We thought comedy was all about talking about -

0:33:070:33:10

"well, mentioning, er, unmentionable things!

0:33:100:33:14

"Taboos, we never realised you could have a good time

0:33:140:33:16

"just by talking about...

0:33:160:33:19

"Oh, no, no, talking about the doctor's routine or the..."

0:33:190:33:22

What are the best moments of your life? Are they on stage or off it?

0:33:220:33:26

Well, a mixture of both, I think. I've had some... I've, er...

0:33:280:33:31

Whatever success I've had,

0:33:310:33:33

I've some wonderful people helping me,

0:33:330:33:35

and I've got some...

0:33:350:33:37

I've had a lovely family who help me.

0:33:370:33:39

I've got partners - I've got a partner who helps me.

0:33:390:33:43

I've got, er...

0:33:430:33:44

I've got, er, lots and lots of friends and supporters

0:33:440:33:48

and they all help in their own way.

0:33:480:33:50

What have been the worst moments of your life?

0:33:500:33:52

Well, I think the same as most people - bereavements and, er,

0:33:520:33:56

sometimes, when you're up against it.

0:33:560:33:59

Yeah, I think everybody gets their share of tough times,

0:33:590:34:03

but you, er...

0:34:030:34:05

I have a...

0:34:050:34:06

I'm very grateful that I have something in here that...

0:34:060:34:11

I don't... I think you'd call it...

0:34:130:34:16

I think you'd call it courage, I think.

0:34:160:34:19

When I've been down, something gets very, very determined there

0:34:190:34:25

that it's not gonna beat me,

0:34:250:34:26

and I won't let it beat me, and I won't and I won't.

0:34:260:34:30

And I still have the enthusiasm.

0:34:300:34:32

That is the greatest talent anybody can possibly have

0:34:320:34:35

if they're thinking of coming into show business or the theatre -

0:34:350:34:38

you have to have enthusiasm.

0:34:380:34:40

Do you have fears? What do you fear in life?

0:34:400:34:43

I think, like most... Like most people...

0:34:440:34:46

I'm blessed with reasonable health,

0:34:460:34:49

but I'd be frightened of being incapacitated.

0:34:490:34:52

I'd be, er...

0:34:520:34:54

I'd be frightened of somebody telling me I had a terminal illness.

0:34:540:34:58

Er...

0:34:580:35:00

I think I... I think I'm frightened...

0:35:000:35:03

I'm fearful of, er...

0:35:040:35:06

when the end of my life comes,

0:35:060:35:09

that maybe I won't have done all the things

0:35:090:35:12

I would want to have done,

0:35:120:35:14

and maybe, er...maybe I'd want to redress one or two things.

0:35:140:35:19

But, yeah, I think I'm mostly norm...

0:35:190:35:22

Things that most men and women are frightened of, I think.

0:35:220:35:24

- Are you a believing man? - Yes, yes. Yes, I believe in my...

0:35:240:35:28

I believe in my creator, and I don't think it matters whether you call him

0:35:280:35:32

God, Jehovah, Muhammad, Buddha - I think it's the, er...

0:35:320:35:36

They're all different ways of approaching our creator.

0:35:360:35:41

I cannot possibly believe that I'm an accident.

0:35:410:35:45

I... I must have a... I must... There must be...

0:35:450:35:48

And I feel very strongly - very strongly sometimes -

0:35:480:35:50

that I'm being guided, that I'm being helped, yes.

0:35:500:35:54

You're very loyal to your roots.

0:35:540:35:56

Is it... Do you live in the same house you were born in?

0:35:560:36:00

- Yes. Yes. - Have you always lived there?

0:36:000:36:02

Yes.

0:36:020:36:03

You lived there with your father and mother.

0:36:030:36:05

- Yes. - And now you live...

0:36:050:36:06

But I live in other places as well, you know,

0:36:060:36:08

when I played the Palladium for several years, I lived in London.

0:36:080:36:12

Er... I, er, I've lived in other parts of the country,

0:36:120:36:16

and I lived in other parts of the world for a time.

0:36:160:36:18

I live on Merseyside - Liverpool in particular -

0:36:180:36:22

because it's a wonderful city,

0:36:220:36:24

full of people who are very, very full of enthusiasm.

0:36:240:36:28

Once again, this... That's why so many comedians come from Liverpool.

0:36:280:36:31

People used to say, "Why do so many comedians come from Liverpool?"

0:36:310:36:34

Arthur Askey said, "You've got to be a comedian to live in Liverpool."

0:36:340:36:37

They're the sort... They're very, very...

0:36:370:36:39

What do you spend your money on?

0:36:390:36:41

Er...books.

0:36:410:36:43

Books. Er...

0:36:430:36:45

..clothes, you know, some clothes.

0:36:460:36:49

But mostly...mostly books, I think,

0:36:490:36:52

and any...and gadgets.

0:36:520:36:53

I love gadgets! I love things like anything electronic.

0:36:530:36:57

Everything from sort of computers, down to, er...video recorders

0:36:570:37:02

and recording machines.

0:37:020:37:04

Do you have regrets?

0:37:040:37:06

Oh, yes.

0:37:060:37:07

- What are your regrets? - I think everybody has regrets.

0:37:070:37:09

Er...

0:37:090:37:11

I do regret I haven't got children, yes.

0:37:110:37:16

Yes, I do regret that

0:37:160:37:18

and I do regret that perhaps... I think I would have, er...

0:37:180:37:23

I think I would have liked to have started travelling earlier.

0:37:250:37:28

I think I would've, er...

0:37:280:37:31

I would've liked to have gone to university, I think.

0:37:310:37:33

Are you really a loner, a very lonely person?

0:37:330:37:38

No, I don't think so. No, no. I love chatting.

0:37:380:37:41

I'm a terrible...gasbag.

0:37:410:37:45

I love talking and, yes, I talk sometimes when I should be listening,

0:37:450:37:49

but, er, I do talk a lot and I love talking with friends

0:37:490:37:52

and, er, you know,

0:37:520:37:54

people in show business, but I think everyone, deep down inside,

0:37:540:37:58

has moments of...moments of quiet

0:37:580:38:01

and moments of, er, thinking.

0:38:010:38:04

And, yes, think about what it's all about, and I do, er,

0:38:040:38:10

I have...

0:38:100:38:11

I have...I think, like most people,

0:38:110:38:14

feelings of compassion for parts of the world that, er, shouldn't be

0:38:140:38:19

the way they are and for people who shouldn't be in the state they are.

0:38:190:38:24

And I realise that God hasn't made us all equal by any means,

0:38:240:38:29

and perhaps the strong ones are here to look after the weaker people.

0:38:290:38:34

Will you ever retire?

0:38:340:38:36

I don't think so. I don't think so.

0:38:360:38:38

The comedian will say, er...

0:38:380:38:40

When I'm asked this question, "Will you ever retire?",

0:38:400:38:43

say, "No, no, no, missus.

0:38:430:38:45

"But your children will tell their grandchildren

0:38:450:38:47

"I was in the theatre the night he was shot."

0:38:470:38:49

That's the comedian, but the retire...

0:38:490:38:52

No, while I've got my health,

0:38:520:38:53

while I can do it, I can't think of

0:38:530:38:56

anything more wonderful than to go onto a stage,

0:38:560:38:58

or into a television studio,

0:38:580:39:00

or in a radio studio and just to give laughter

0:39:000:39:05

and to hear the sound of laughter

0:39:050:39:07

and know that I had something to do with making them laugh.

0:39:070:39:10

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