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with Matt Baker and Alex Jones. 40 years ago, to my's guest is met in | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
New York. It was the start of a relationship that would reduce some | :00:27. | :00:34. | |
of the most memorable music of the 70s and 80s. 40 million record sales | :00:34. | :00:44. | |
:00:44. | :00:51. | ||
and six number ones later, Blondie are still going strong. | :00:51. | :00:59. | |
# Soon turned out, had a heart of Glass | :00:59. | :01:09. | |
:01:09. | :01:25. | ||
Please welcome Debbie Harry and The interesting thing is that you | :01:25. | :01:31. | |
were holding your head in your hands. What was that about? I don't | :01:31. | :01:39. | |
know. What was I thinking? What was I doing? Your fashion is still | :01:39. | :01:47. | |
relevant today. You made some very good choices. Thank you. Let's go | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
back to the start when you first set eyes on each other, because you said | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
there was a psychic connection. can't explain. How can you explain a | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
psychic connection? It's impossible. It was an affinity, | :02:01. | :02:11. | |
:02:11. | :02:11. | ||
perhaps. It was very easy. It was wonderfully easy to relate to this | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
complete stranger in the audience. You said like a silhouette at the | :02:16. | :02:26. | |
:02:26. | :02:27. | ||
time. He was back lit. Like all of you. Was it anything to do with his | :02:28. | :02:34. | |
eyebrows. He has great eyebrows. does have very nice eyes. That is | :02:34. | :02:41. | |
why I wear these! Blondie was formed and the rest is history and you are | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
on tour this summer. We will talk more later. Ike macro if a child in | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
your family behaves badly at school and faces permanent exclusion, do | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
you think they should be put in a more disciplined classroom, or a | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
more easy-going one? Tony Livesey has visited one place where they | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
hope a softer approach can help avoid consigning children to the | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
education scrapheap. This might look like an ordinary classroom but it is | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
far from it. Most of these kids are on the verge of thing permanently | :03:13. | :03:19. | |
excluded from school. One of them is 16-year-old Katie. How bad did it | :03:19. | :03:27. | |
get? Everybody used to wind me up. What did your mum make of it first | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
remark she was fed up, she was in school more than I was. It was | :03:32. | :03:39. | |
causing my mum more hassle than it was me. Rathbone 's is one of | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
several schemes offering another kind of schooling for 11 to | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
16-year-olds who are not getting on in mainstream education. The | :03:46. | :03:52. | |
difference is that the teaching style is less formal. And you might | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
say it is a bit more relaxed. forward to coming here most of the | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
time, more than school, because you can wear your own clothes and do | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
what you want. Not what you want, but they will let you go out to the | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
shop at dinner. At school, you cannot go out and you have to wear | :04:11. | :04:18. | |
the uniform. It was not the right place for me. Last year, over 5000 | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
children were permanently excluded from state schools in England. | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
Furthermore, only 1.4% of excluded kids get five good GCSEs including | :04:27. | :04:37. | |
:04:37. | :04:38. | ||
maths and English. Right, let's have a bit of time out. So, teaching here | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
certainly has challengers. I will never forget my first day of working | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
here. I walked into a zoo. That is the only way I can describe it, | :04:46. | :04:52. | |
really. But I saw something in every one of those young people. Who have | :04:52. | :05:02. | |
:05:02. | :05:03. | ||
you chosen? Because she is caring. That is a good trait. They have | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
opted out of school, so how do you make them opt back in again? I give | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
them belief that whatever they want to achieve in life, they can do | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
that. Two of the puppies open their eyes last night. It macro are you a | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
sorrow that mother? They call me mother hen, mother Goose, probably | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
some other names. I am not a family member and I am not their friend. I | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
am fully aware that I am their Chuter, but it is my style of | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
teaching. A teacher once said to me, you cannot do this job for the money | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
or the holidays, you have to love the children. And I do love those | :05:39. | :05:49. | |
kids. My mum came to school and said, can you do anything for him? | :05:49. | :05:56. | |
They said here. And I came here and enjoy it a lot better. Katie is the | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
fourth member of her family to go here. Her sister splits her time | :06:00. | :06:06. | |
there with her local high school. school, I would sit in class and I | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
would not work because I would feel ill. Everyone is quieter here and we | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
do not argue as much. It has helped us to grow up and see what is | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
happening around us. It has brought you back into society. Are you | :06:22. | :06:29. | |
helping around at home? Sometimes. It is not a miracle worker. It will | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
not make you do the washing up. have a dishwasher for that. They | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
like it, but can such a relaxed environment actually benefit them? | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
What about those who say it is a copout because the kids come here | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
and they can have toast when they get here and play football in the | :06:48. | :06:54. | |
afternoon and go home early. answer is, whatever works. And trust | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
me, this thing works. We have a class that has just passed out and | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
everyone has gone on to something positive that college, further | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
training, or even into work. Amongst that group are people with the worst | :07:06. | :07:12. | |
attendance record at high school. When I was told I was coming here, I | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
expected mayhem. But having spent time with the kids in the classroom, | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
I have come to understand that they want to have a go at life, but | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
perhaps on theirs to -- on their terms. If places like this can teach | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
them how to do it but keep within the rules, is there anything wrong | :07:27. | :07:34. | |
with that? New kind of summed it up there. But | :07:34. | :07:42. | |
do you think in your experience that the more lenient approach works? | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
is a strange word, lenient. You can have a cup of -- what works for | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
those kids would not necessarily work for others who might want a | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
more structured approach. Essentially, it is what works in the | :07:54. | :08:00. | |
first place. How can we save these kids? So, our permanent exclusions | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
increasing or decreasing in the UK? They are decreasing because | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
headteachers do not want it on the school record. And they are also | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
aware of how much it can affect a child going forward. If a child is | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
excluded, it affects their future career. Halfway house seem to be the | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
way ahead, where kids are taken on board and they try to turn their | :08:23. | :08:30. | |
lives around. Chris, you were thrown out of school. I was thrown out | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
having long hair in the 60s. I was probably acting up a little. It was | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
in the middle of my junior year in high school and the dean of the | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
school was severe. He got a couple of us in his office and he said, you | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
are going to be crossing the street and your hair will flow in front of | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
your face and you will get it by a car. That was his excuse. There were | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
a lot of test cases for Civil Liberties and people were suing | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
schools that they were thrown out of for having long hair. So within a | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
week or two the school called me up and said, if you come back you will | :09:06. | :09:16. | |
:09:16. | :09:16. | ||
not have to take Jim. That enticed you back. I was happy to be out. I | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
was not happy in the school public system and my mum found a cheap | :09:19. | :09:26. | |
arrive at school. Thank you, Tony. We are going to talk about the | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
blonde eat or shortly. As you have had so many hits, we thought | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
everybody out there will be able to do a karaoke version. One way or | :09:35. | :09:45. | |
:09:45. | :10:00. | ||
# I know a girl from a lonely Street # Cold as ice cream but still as | :10:00. | :10:09. | |
sweet. # # Soon turned out, had a Heart Of | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
Glass # Seemed like the real thing, only | :10:11. | :10:21. | |
:10:21. | :10:38. | ||
to find. # # Beautiful to night. # | :10:38. | :10:48. | |
:10:48. | :10:55. | ||
# Maria, you've got to see her. # # The tide is high, but I'm holding | :10:55. | :11:02. | |
# I'm going to be your number one # Number one | :11:02. | :11:12. | |
:11:12. | :11:22. | ||
# Number one. # # Call me | :11:22. | :11:32. | |
:11:32. | :11:40. | ||
I did not think we would get the Caterpillar. I liked the | :11:40. | :11:50. | |
:11:50. | :11:55. | ||
glassmakers. I am definitely calling him. I am speechless.The man at the | :11:55. | :12:01. | |
glass factory had a pretty voice. have to thank the British public for | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
their support over the years. they can come and see you on tour. | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
You are starting in Nottingham and then it goes on to London. Will you | :12:11. | :12:18. | |
be playing old stuff and new stuff? Yes. It is very exciting. It is a | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
nice show and it is so much fun to have new material. We are still | :12:24. | :12:32. | |
working it up. Some of the new tunes are more dance tunes. Do you think | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
there might be an album of the back of the tour? It is dance oriented, | :12:37. | :12:43. | |
if you want to call it that. Mick Jagger was saying it is strange when | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
you play the old ones because everyone is singing along and then | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
you introduce new stuff and it is tough to get through because people | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
do not know the words. They love the music all the same. They sort of | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
stop. I often wonder what it would be like to play satisfaction for 50 | :13:02. | :13:10. | |
years! You are saying thank you to the British public for their | :13:10. | :13:19. | |
support. I mean it sincerely.In 1978 when you came over, you were | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
completely mobbed. We have some amazing footage. How did it feel to | :13:24. | :13:31. | |
get to the British Isles and realise how much the fans were into Blondie? | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
Completely wonderful and surprisingly. I honestly had no way | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
of knowing how to handle something like that. It was absolutely | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
thrilling. It is what anybody who goes into the music business, or | :13:45. | :13:52. | |
show business, wants to have happen. A dream come true. The lads in the | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
glass factory did a wonderful condition of Heart Of Glass, but | :13:55. | :14:01. | |
that tunes started in a different way. It was like rock the boat, | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
baby, if you remember that song. It went through a feud transformations. | :14:07. | :14:15. | |
It was a bit of reggae in there. thought we sounded like Kraftwerk. | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
We were watching your fascinating documentary earlier, and lots has | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
happened within the band. There have been rifts, drugs, problems, but you | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
have remained friends, strong friends throughout the whole thing. | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
What is the secret to your relationship? I don't know. I am an | :14:34. | :14:42. | |
idiot. I didn't finish. I am an idiot and he is full. How often do | :14:42. | :14:52. | |
:14:52. | :14:53. | ||
you fight? We are very much on the same page. And you are godmother. | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
What kind of a godmother she make vesture Mark she is OK. You would | :14:58. | :15:08. | |
:15:08. | :15:15. | ||
have to ask them. What did you think about One Direction's version of | :15:15. | :15:21. | |
your song? I thought they did a good job, and it was all for a good cause | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
as well. It had a good spirit about it, and it had humour. It was great. | :15:25. | :15:33. | |
Are you going to do sarin on your tour? Yes, we are.What is your | :15:33. | :15:41. | |
favourite, of all the ones that you do? Well, it would be the new stuff. | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
I get more enthused about the new stuff. I guess the one which stands | :15:46. | :15:56. | |
:15:56. | :15:58. | ||
out for me, on many levels, is Rapture. Why is that? Well, we broke | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
through, it was a real breakthrough for us musically, and in the world | :16:02. | :16:08. | |
of music, so i think that was the one. I am very proud of that. And | :16:08. | :16:15. | |
also, it is the first rap song that has its own music. At that time, it | :16:15. | :16:24. | |
was all scratchy samples. . So, you are including that one in the tour? | :16:24. | :16:31. | |
You do not know yet? Anyway... Ahead of Father's Day this Sunday, we want | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
to know where you would find a perfect dad, one that does all of | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
the housework, looks after the kids, and is a bit of a funky dancer | :16:39. | :16:49. | |
as well. Mike Dilger has found him, and he lives in a stream near you. | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
Right across the country, there is a new raft of fathers celebrating | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
Father's Day. For the very first time, this year, i have become a dad | :16:54. | :17:04. | |
myself. This is Zachary Ted, the apple of his parents live. But one | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
thing i never realised was how much work it was being a dad. In the rest | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
of the animal world, there are many hard-working fathers who protect | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
their young, provide food and even carry the eggs around. But there is | :17:16. | :17:22. | |
one on song animal does that, and much more. When i was a kid, i used | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
to catch these tiddlers all of the time. Back in the day, i always knew | :17:27. | :17:34. | |
their proper name, but what i did not know was that the males make | :17:34. | :17:40. | |
absolutely brilliant fathers! They start with herring for fatherhood in | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
the spring breeding season, when they turn from a muddy brown colour | :17:43. | :17:49. | |
to a bright, vivid red, to warn off other males. Then, they start | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
defending their bit stream. And i have just got a territorial male | :17:52. | :18:00. | |
just down here, and we have got a special, underwater camera. We have | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
put a splash of red tape, and hopefully, he might think it is a | :18:04. | :18:11. | |
male trying to take over his patch. He should come over to investigate. | :18:11. | :18:21. | |
:18:21. | :18:22. | ||
He is coming! There we go. That's great! He is really territorial. | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
They are particularly defensive because, within their home patch, | :18:25. | :18:31. | |
these potential dads also build their own nests. Along a stream like | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
this, there will be dozens, maybe even hundreds of territories, packed | :18:34. | :18:43. | |
together, each containing a nest built by a father, which is really | :18:43. | :18:50. | |
difficult to spot. At the University of Leicester, Dr Ian Brown has spent | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
seven years studying sticklebacks and there are considerable skills. | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
We are surrounded by them - what is it about this fish which fascinates | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
you Anna Hann people think of nestbuilding animals, they think of | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
birds and mammals, but in this case it is the male who does everything, | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
and he started off by building a nest. It is the female swimming past | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
which prompts the males into starting to build a nest. So, | :19:16. | :19:23. | |
introducing a female, even in a jar, should trigger some nest action. | :19:23. | :19:29. | |
There is definite interest. And here's heading down to finishes | :19:29. | :19:39. | |
:19:39. | :19:40. | ||
nest! They build from whatever is to hand, and stick the nest together | :19:40. | :19:50. | |
:19:50. | :19:50. | ||
with a trail of glue. Here, he has got a mixture of cotton thread and | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
water weed. Absolutely amazing behaviour. In the wild, sticklebacks | :19:53. | :19:59. | |
females have a lot of nest is to choose from, so, not only do the | :19:59. | :20:06. | |
males need to be good builders, they also do an elaborate dance to show | :20:06. | :20:12. | |
how fit and strong they are. A couple of tanks along, there is a | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
dance about to happen. Oh, he is zigzagging like crazy! That is a | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
classic courtship dance. This female is ready to lay, but there is no | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
guarantee she will. Now, he is dancing and swimming back to the | :20:23. | :20:29. | |
nest to show her where it is. is ready, she will go into the nest. | :20:29. | :20:35. | |
She is pushing her way in. The idea here is that the male is stimulating | :20:35. | :20:43. | |
the muscles in the female's body to release the eggs. And now, he should | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
swim through and fertilise them. There he goes. We have just seen the | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
whole cycle! That is brilliant. For the next ten days, the father will | :20:55. | :21:01. | |
fan water over the eggs to keep them oxygenated, and defend the baby fish | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
when they hatch. But that is not all. After those babies have | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
hatched, he will build another nest and try and attract more females, | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
and then, towards the end of the season, he has expended so much | :21:13. | :21:20. | |
energy, he has not had time to feed, typically, he will die. And they are | :21:20. | :21:27. | |
the supreme dads. And Mike, the new dad, is here. Because we have got | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
Blondie on the show, you went in search of the most long animals you | :21:32. | :21:38. | |
could find. Yes, we scoured the natural world in honour of these | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
guest 's. We came up with these beautiful Peruvian long-haired | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
beautiful Peruvian long-haired guinea pigs, belonging Aren't they | :21:46. | :21:54. | |
amazing? They look like they are wearing to pays. We are going to | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
find out which would be the perfect pet for the members of Blondie here. | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
These ones are silky hands, so called because their plumage is | :22:02. | :22:10. | |
thus. Chris told me beforehand, the most amazing thing about them is | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
that if you part the feathers, they have blue skin underneath. They are | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
the only breed of chicken which has five toes. I think they are rather | :22:20. | :22:27. | |
like ours. I really wanted to touch him, but... ! Uncle how you feeling | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
about these? These are really nice chickens. Actually, I think chickens | :22:33. | :22:41. | |
are wonderful. You show these, don't you? Yes, he has got to have a | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
really good image, and a nice, rounded body. The Crest has not got | :22:47. | :22:56. | |
to be too big. Who have I got here, Harriet? That is Alaska. Guinea pig | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
is a bizarre name, because they are not from Guinea, and they are not | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
pigs. It was thought that they came from Diana, and it was a | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
mispronunciation, but the other thought was that it was brought back | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
from the Spanish from South America. They were wild rodents, if it | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
really, and they were brought back via Guinea, in West Africa, which | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
was the last port of call. So that is where the name came from. They | :23:22. | :23:32. | |
:23:32. | :23:37. | ||
were wrong on both counts. Next, Gyles Brandreth has the story of a | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
Hollywood screenwriter who had to flee the United States and make his | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
home in the UK. When it came to films like Bridge On The River Kwai | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
and the guns of Neverland, their loss was definitely our game. In | :23:49. | :23:55. | |
1973, filmmaker Carl Foreman was nominated for an Oscar for his | :23:55. | :24:01. | |
screenplay of Young Winston, the story of Winston Churchill. It | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
crystallised his status as part of the British film aristocracy. But | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
Foreman's own story was as dramatic as his films. He was lauded as one | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
of the greats of British cinema. But few knew that 20 years before, he | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
had been exile from Hollywood and had his American passport revoked. | :24:20. | :24:26. | |
During the 1940s and 1950s, America was in the grip of an anti-Communist | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
witchhunt, led by Senator McCarthy. Suspected Communists faced the | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
committee for un-American at energies, including leading names in | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
Hollywood, like Carl Foreman. He had been a member of the Communist Party | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
in his use, but he left in 1941. The committee wanted him to name other | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
party members, but he refused, meaning that he was blacklisted in | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
Hollywood, and his film career was over. At the time he was working on | :24:53. | :25:02. | |
:25:03. | :25:35. | ||
high noon, the powerful 1952 Western about a town marshal forced to face | :25:35. | :25:45. | |
:25:45. | :25:59. | ||
a gallon of killers alone. In a way, it was a portrayal of the turmoil in | :25:59. | :26:09. | |
:26:09. | :26:14. | ||
Carl Foreman's life at that moment. Terry Cooper is the marshal, going | :26:14. | :26:24. | |
:26:24. | :26:29. | ||
around the town trying to recruit deputies, and he goes to the church | :26:29. | :26:38. | |
and discovers that the townspeople, whom he has been protecting, do not | :26:38. | :26:48. | |
:26:48. | :26:51. | ||
want to help him. It is a film about your friend is not standing by you. | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
He saw it as a symbolic rejection of American values, throwing this thing | :26:54. | :27:04. | |
:27:04. | :27:05. | ||
in America, and Churchill basically said, my dear boy, do not worry | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
about that. All I care about is whether he can do the job. Churchill | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
expected to see the finished film in a matter of months. As Carl Foreman | :27:14. | :27:24. | |
:27:24. | :27:26. | ||
later revealed... I said, no, sir, I think it will be two or three | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
years, not months. He said, nonsense, when we decided on opening | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
a second front in Normandy, it did not take is that long. I said, yes, | :27:36. | :27:43. | |
you had more money. From my father 's point of view, I think the film | :27:43. | :27:49. | |
was a kind of love letter to England. His services to British | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
cinema and him a CBE, rare for un-American. By the early 1960s, he | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
was preparing to go home to Hollywood, where a chance encounter | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
with John Wayne presented an opportunity for reconciliation. | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
father took my sister and I and walked us over to his table, and | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
John Wayne stood up and they shook hands. It was a sign that things | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
were over. Should we be proud of giving a home to this exile | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
American? I think we should, because if he had stayed in America, he | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
would have been condemned to silence. Carl Foreman ended his days | :28:20. | :28:27. | |
back in Hollywood. You died in 1964, aged 69. He was a unique American, | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
who made some remarkably British films. What a quote that was from | :28:31. | :28:39. | |
Churchill. And staying on the movie theme, they are making a film about | :28:39. | :28:45. | |
your life, called CBGB, and Malin Ackerman, a young actress, is | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
playing you. There she is. Have you spoken to her at all? Did they | :28:50. | :28:57. | |
consult you? Oh, no. But I knew who she was, and I thought, she is | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
great, she is to refit. She looks brilliant. I have seen her in other | :29:02. | :29:08. |