01/06/2012 The Review Show


01/06/2012

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This programme has some strong Tonight on the review show, Ridley

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Scott's first sci-fi movie since Blade Runner, is the director back

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where he belongs. As Olympic fever rises, a new book from Chris Cleave

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spins a story of elite athletes. Turner Contemporary celebrates

:00:36.:00:41.

Tracey Emin, the artist who once called herself Mad Tracey from

:00:41.:00:49.

Margate, is she now more mellow than mad. Punk, as charted by its

:00:49.:00:59.
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finders, including Souness -- Graeme Souness and lined lined line.

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An arky might be expect the from Natalie Haynes fresh from judging

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the Orange price. The presenter of British Masters,

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journalist and former rock manager, Paul Morley, who wrote for NME in

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punk's hey day. We would like to hear your comments, so tweet away.

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It is 30 years since Ridley Scott's last sci-fi movie, there could

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scarsly be more anticipation for Prometheus. It hits cinemas today

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like a spaceship blasting into distant galaxies. Blade Runner had

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the style, Thelma and Louis, the sass. And Alien "that" scene.

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Ridley Scott's career is as diverse as it is long. Despite the success

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of the Alien franchise, it has taken three decades, and a script

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by the co-creator of Lost, to lure him back to the genre.

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It is 2093 and a team of scientists, recruited by a mysterious

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corporation, heads off to a distant planet, after an archaeological

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discovery on earth suggests that the secret of human creation lies

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in a planet half a billion miles away. As they prepare to meet their

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makers, the expedition runs into dangerous territory. What the hell

:02:29.:02:39.
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is that? Prometheus, come in. Inevitably, when Ridley Scott call,

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the stars fall into alignment. Noomi Rapace covers her Dragon

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Tattoo, as a space scientist. Charlize Theron plays the ice Queen

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chief of the large corporation. And Michael Fassbender plays David, an

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android, not entirely impressed with his creators. Why do you think

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kwhrur people made me? Because -- Why do you think your people made

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me? Because they could. Imagine what it would mean to you to hear

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the same thing from your creator. Anticipated for light years by sci-

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fi fans, is the story with all the bells and whistles of cinema

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production as powerful as the gods themselves.

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Natalie, this film has supposedly been incubating for 20 years. He

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wouldn't go to the Alien series, he has gone way back, should he have

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done it? I think so. It is a good fun action movie. There are lovely

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nods, if you are an Alien nerd, right at the very beginning, I will

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not give anything away, or I will get death threats and I will

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deserve it. Right at the beginning when we see Michael Fassbender's

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android character, he's a rubbish android, but the time they are an

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android they are like normal people, he's slightly stiff. It is 2089?

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are miles back in android. Killing time in stasis, he cycles around

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and throws hoops in the basketball, what a nod to Alien, where Sig

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ourney Weaver makes the shot, and there are nerd nods. The ship is

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called Prometheus, that is supposed to do with the Titus taking it.

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has nobody told us yet how daft the film is. Utterly daft. And not

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necessarily in a bad way. But it is just a really daft film. Everything

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about it is wrong. What was interesting about his great science

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fiction pieces, Alien and Blade Runner, is there is an be a strax

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about it, without the actors taking over. In this one they take over a

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bit, they act like they are in a 1990s police drama, Idris Elba if

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he had said "God dam" I would have knocked him over. Give it to me.

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this idea that it continues the myth of Alien, enough it enough.

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Alien was a horror movie, is this a horror movie? I don't think it is

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as tense or Spenceful as Alien, the reason is, the really scary parts

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of Alien were the silent sequences in which nothing happened. There

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none of that year. Ridley Scott doesn't seem to have the confidence

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to let the film breathe and ratchet the tension out with silence. The

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tag line for that original Alien film was "in space no-one can hear

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you scream". In this film no-one can hear you scream, because the

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music is too loud. I thought it was nowhere near as scary. That is what

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everyone's dad says! What about the nod to the Ridly, there is Charlize

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Theron, that whole kind of female thing going on that he always does?

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Ripley is kind of split in two. There is rough and tough Ripley,

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ass-kicking with Charlize Theron, and then tragic Ridley. Good and

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evil? They have split her into two halves. I sort of started to mind

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after a while. I missed the idea you could be vulnerable and ass-

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kicky. She is by the end, but not with the same gusto. We won't give

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away the ending at all? Ridley Scott watches a lot of television

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and films, he has a lot of favourites he likes toest ka, and

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he has cast them, things he -- to cast, and he has cast them, things

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he likes to watch. It takes an hour to get going, so it is dreary.

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There is the best use ever of Stephen Stills, that I believe is

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impro-advised, and Ridley Scott has no idea what is going on, when

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suddenly Idris Elba is quoting "love the one you are with", and

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step vein Stills is holding a squeeze box and playing it. What

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about the idea that this was the big theme of Darwinism, and

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religion, you know, they are set up and are they explored? I felt

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really short-changed. I thought the film would deal with these big

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issues, Ridley Scott was talking about it delivering on the future

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of faith and the environment. And viral videos came out and said it

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would about corporation. It might have been a better film? Those

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people understood what the audience would like better. Elizabeth Shaw

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is a Christian woman, she wears a cross around her neck, and it

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becomes more important as the film goes on, she's liking for

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Aliens/Gods as she goes on. I'm not religious, but if you believe in a

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Christian God you don't believe in Aliens/gods. There was the nod to

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the corporate world, that the big corporate world gets an escape

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capsule? Let's not overbuild some of the minor themes by the guy who

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wrote it and used to write for Lost, when I saw it, it looks like it is

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going backwards, it looks like a bad episode of Thunderbirds. There

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is no reason why he's doing what he's doing in 3-D. I'm sure there

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will be lots of reasons why Michael Fassbender agreed to do the film,

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not least working with Ridley Scott. Do you watch The Big Bang Theory,

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he's like Sheldon. He may be a droid but he's the only one with

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character? There is so little humanity, that the great character

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you cling to is the robot. I felt if you compare it to Alien, the

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opening sequence when they are having this very domestic breakfast,

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and you really feel you want these people to get through what is

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happening to them. With this film I couldn't care less if the crew of

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Prometheus died or not. With Alien and other sequels, they are ahead

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of their time and critque of corporate awfulness, this one feels

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like it is behind the curve. We knew the corporation were a bad

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thing, because they have pursued Ripley through four films. Suddenly

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we go through it and say corporations are bad. We were doing

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it 30 years ago and it was more exciting then. If you look at the

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canon of Ridley Scott, you have Thelma and Louis, all sorts of

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films, he is going to maybe return to those, but Blade Runner first,

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do we need to return to that, what a film? Not if he does anything

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like that. We do not, I don't think I can face it. He has said he would

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like to cast Harrison Ford in it, he will have to have old Harrison

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Ford, to do that I will have to accept that he's a replicate, I

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won't accept that. This was a little bit like the celebration of

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the demise of progressive rock, it had that ethic monumental quality

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of a bad triple album by Genesis. Don't let us put you off,

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Prometheus is in cinema, go and see it for yourself. Still to mum,

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Tracey Emin is back home in Margate. And a look at Jubilee fever in 1977.

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As the Olympic torch travels the country, the latest novel from

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best-selling author, Chris Cleave, takes us behind the scenes at the

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international velodrome and into the heads of top athletes. At first

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glance the covers of Chris Cleave's previous novels suggests light

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reading. But his emotional and compelling narratives, and subjects

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of immigration, have earned the respect of readers keen to go

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beyond the headlines. As a writer I have always wanted to inhabit this

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contested space between the point at which newspapers stop having

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space to cover a story. And the point about five years later at

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which historians begin to examine it. Gold is in that same tradition.

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Gold tells the story of Kate and Zoe, best friends and rival

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competitive cyclists. On the track there is almost nothing to separate

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them. But their private lives are in turmoil. Zoe is concealing a

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secret from her past, and Kate's daughter, Sophie, has leukaemia.

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This intensity, a single second seemed unendureable, and 20,

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unimaginable. By an effort of will, she called the image of Sophie into

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our mind. She thought, if I win this race, Sophie will get better.

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I like to take my characters to these extreme edges of human

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experience, where we ask them these great questions that we all ask

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ourselves. Gold is about what do you put first, your ambition or the

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love you have for your friends and family. If the novel is about

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personal and professional sacrifices, it is also about the

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focus and dedication it takes to make an Olympic athlete. How do we

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get people on to the start line of this extraordinary event, the

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Olympic ideal, swifter, harder, stronger. It is easy to watch, but

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very complicated and hard to get there, like everything that is

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worth something in life. "There was no pain, the air whistled past her

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ears, she listened intently, that silent music was all there was. It

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was the sound of the universe showing her mercy. Finally she was

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no-one". The publishers's blush promises a novel that will make you

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cry, and make you glad to be alive. But is this Olympic hopeful really

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publishing gold? James, as Chris said, as the book

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jacket says, this is the book that takes you into the mind of Olympic

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athletes, did you feel you were in there with all the traumas, flights

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and worries? I was a sucker for it, really. I realised it had some flaw,

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it was slightly mellow dramatic at times. It tried very hard to put

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you in that scene. Olympic, cancer, promiscuity, everything? That was

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the one false note. I really did enjoy this book, I thought it was a

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very well crafted piece of work. It did draw you in, almost against my

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will. But at the same time, the one thing I felt was just a step too

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far was the girl with leukaemia. That seems to be a cast iron way to

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move people. It seemed like a slightly cheap shot to do that.

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When you look at the hundreds of quotes inside there, and the fact

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it has won the Somerset Maug hen prize, it is the literary novel,

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that we are willing to respect this book? I find that quite strange. I

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thought it was a very well paced book, it didn't feel at all like a

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literary novel for me. The second page somebody's smile is like a new

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born foal and its legs buckle underneath it, you think, honestly,

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and the dialogue says "I'm like a nuclear submarine". Nobody has ever

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said that, not unless they were mad. So, I kind of felt somebody was

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pushing me towards something that didn't really exist. I felt bad for

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not liking it. I think Incendiary is a vastly better written book. I

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felt this had been rushed out in times for the Olympic. Wish the

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publishers didn't do 15 pages of telling us he's really stunning and

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he's a Zola, once you get through the book and you realise he's a

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minor Nick Hornby, you wouldn't have bothered so much. It is a

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hybrid of a Mills and Boon book, and a terrible attempt to get a

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book out for an Olympics. Is it easy or hard to write a book

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about sport? There was a cultural divide, you talked about loving

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sport and art. That is not a British thing in novelists, it is

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more an American thing? To right a piece of fiction about sport is

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particularly difficult. I'm thinking about the Manchester City

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game where we made history. It was like Norman Mahler saying when you

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are watching the fight of Muhammed Ali, you have to get all of it into

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a few pages. You have to be a tremendous writer to do that. I

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don't think Chris Cleave is. It isth reminds me of the Great

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British Menu, when they are told to break boundaries,'s trying to do

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that and not doing it. I think of Neverland, it is not

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really about that, the whole book? British literature it is very rare

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to see sport being dealt W I wonder whether that is because in Britain

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there are sporty people, and arty people, and sporty people don't

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read novels and sporty people aren't arts fan. In the US there is

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a huge canon of literature, back to Moby Dick, and the boxing, and bull

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fights, and Richard Ford, the great opening sequence with the baseball

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scenes in Underworld. I wonder whether it is maybe because the

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great American writers and artists, they are thought of in terms of

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masculinity, these great macho figure, Jackson Pollock, the great

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frontiers man. It is interesting in this country, some of the better

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books about sport are biographies, and stories of fans writing about

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things. They are writing about characters and a different sort of

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thing. Chris Cleave trying to get inside the head of a cyclist. And

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it also slightly underwomens you it is a cyclist, suddenly psyche --

:17:21.:17:31.
:17:31.:17:33.

underwomens you, as it is a cyclist, there are the books by Eamonn

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Dumphy, great books about sport, but not getting into the head of

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the person. That kind of concentration and six and seven

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things firing off at the same time. You don't need to write about sport

:17:44.:17:54.
:17:54.:17:54.

to do that. Certainly in film and television, in the last couple of

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years we have had the film Moneyball, which is brilliant. And

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then five years of Friday Night Lights, an American football team

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in a high school in the middle of Texas. And it is the most

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compelling thing. I watched all five seasons, weeping throughout.

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By the last episode of the last series, still when someone did a

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thing with an American football, I had to look at the faces in the

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audience of the characters to see if it was good ored bad. I didn't

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know. I could have lived without Kyra Knightly playing football.

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They are invented sports, and they need the great writer to complete

:18:36.:18:40.

them. At the end of it, Paul, the score is different at the beginning.

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Unlike in football. Where that is there. Gold is out now. Over the

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past 25 years, Tracey Emin has had an often painful dialogue with her

:18:56.:19:01.

town Margate, scenes of her rape and sexual abuse. Now she has come

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home with a brand new work, showing a brand new state of mind. I went

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to meet her. You have called this show, She Lay Down Deep Beneath the

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Sea. What does that refer to? refers to feeling like an immense

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amount of weight on top of you. Just before my dad died I was in

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France, and I have got an olive grove there, I had a gardener that

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had cut the olive trees back to absolute nubs, I wanted the trees

:19:32.:19:37.

and shade. When I saw what they had done to the olive groves I threw

:19:37.:19:41.

myself on the floor and cried. What I knew I was upset about was the

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fact that my dad was dying. There is a mattress from Heels, on it

:19:45.:19:51.

just a branch, no leaves, nothing. Is that a repost to the other bed?

:19:51.:19:55.

Definitely, in my old studio, I had this big branch, just hanging

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around. And I just threw it on the mattress one day, not intentionally,

:19:59.:20:04.

just to get rid of it, put it somewhere, then I thought, wow,

:20:04.:20:07.

that looks brilliant. There is a conversation between the mattress

:20:07.:20:13.

and the dead branch. That is what I felt like. You only used 566, tell

:20:13.:20:18.

me about using the colour 566? was in Italy, and while I was there,

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I just had this whole energy to make some work, we went to the

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local art shop, I bought a watercolour pad and one tube of

:20:26.:20:30.

paint. And made these best water colours that I have made in so long,

:20:30.:20:35.

that for me are more like a memory or a picture or something. There is

:20:35.:20:40.

a group of blue paintings, you in bedside by side with somebody,

:20:40.:20:43.

together but separate. And is this about the way that you think about

:20:43.:20:47.

a relationship now? Yeah, definitely. I don't think you have

:20:47.:20:50.

to sleep together every night to have a relationship. What is

:20:50.:20:54.

essentially important is you must love each other. That is what I'm

:20:54.:21:04.
:21:04.:21:04.

looking for now, is love. You include Turner and Rohdan

:21:04.:21:09.

draurgs, why have you included those? Most of it is incredibly

:21:09.:21:14.

erotic, I wanted it to be more porn know graphic rather than erotic, I

:21:14.:21:24.
:21:24.:21:24.

wanted people to see that -- porn know graphic rather than --

:21:24.:21:27.

pornographic, rather than erotic, I wanted people to see men have been

:21:27.:21:33.

doing this for many years, and my work isn't that shocking. A royal

:21:33.:21:38.

commendation, does that mean a lot to you, what does it mean to you

:21:38.:21:48.
:21:48.:21:52.

now? It means I stay alive for a little bit longer. People say I'm

:21:52.:21:57.

becoming part of the establishment, I say no, it is like saying

:21:57.:22:00.

policemen are getting younger. I have been doing this for a long

:22:00.:22:02.

time, but people in the establishment are younger than me,

:22:02.:22:06.

they appreciate what I have done and the effort I have made. I think

:22:06.:22:10.

being a female artist now, at the moment, is a really good, good time.

:22:10.:22:15.

As I always keep saying, men, one big giant ejaculation, but women

:22:15.:22:22.

keep coming and coming, that is how I feel at the moment. Thank you.

:22:22.:22:27.

Paul, just a year after the retrospective, she goes to Margate

:22:27.:22:31.

and creates a brand new show, it is a different sensation? It is very

:22:31.:22:36.

much rooted in the idea of Margate, and what has happened to Margate,

:22:36.:22:41.

the idea it is a very be priefd place, it is falling to bits, it is

:22:41.:22:45.

a terrible -- deprived place, it is falling to bits, and a terrible

:22:45.:22:49.

metaphor for what is happening in Britain. There is this gallery

:22:49.:22:56.

perched on the edge of depravation, and she, from Margate is in there.

:22:56.:23:01.

It wouldn't been there? It is the actor of imagination who can make

:23:01.:23:07.

this happening that is not about Mary Portas coming in and people

:23:07.:23:11.

being involved in it, but a city being revitalised by the

:23:12.:23:14.

imagination. I love this exhibition because it is implanted in this

:23:14.:23:19.

gallery, inside Margate, and it is an act of will. Within it is great

:23:19.:23:22.

compression. I have always thought of Tracey as being a kind of poet

:23:22.:23:27.

in a way. She is giving us a series of image. She compresses them in a

:23:27.:23:30.

different way, a visual way, they are the same sort of thing, how she

:23:30.:23:35.

feels, her memories. In her sense, the loneliness, the fear about the

:23:35.:23:39.

future, she's tipping into 50, what will happen. In that sense it is a

:23:39.:23:43.

really beautiful exhibition, for two reasons. One we get the sense

:23:43.:23:48.

of the poetic impressions of her experience, and very poignantly,

:23:48.:23:52.

within her home town. People have talked about this as being a

:23:52.:23:57.

resolution, as Paul is saying, Tracey is only 48, it is at a stage,

:23:57.:24:02.

but she will go on presumably changing ever more? I disagree with

:24:02.:24:05.

Paul. Because I think the only good thing about the exhibition is it is

:24:06.:24:11.

in Margate. I think Tracey Emin did produce some great work back in the

:24:11.:24:14.

1990s her childhood and her youth and all those kinds of things. It

:24:14.:24:21.

is 20 years later, she is a very wealthy 48-year-old, pillar of the

:24:21.:24:29.

establishment, I don't blie that thing she says, that is teenage

:24:29.:24:33.

stuff. She's not doing teenage stuff now? I think there is,

:24:33.:24:36.

drawings of women clutching their crotches and talking about how much

:24:36.:24:41.

things hurt. I just think that I don't buy it. She talks in your vt

:24:41.:24:46.

section about how this whole idea of an eggs Biggs was spawned from

:24:47.:24:51.

this unpleasant experience she had when her gardener cut her olive

:24:51.:24:55.

grove too aggressively. How are we supposed to have sympathy for this.

:24:55.:25:03.

Is she laying bare the universal truths of the human condition, with

:25:03.:25:09.

her olive grove. It was what happened when this happened to the

:25:09.:25:12.

olive grove, her father was Mediterranean and could have

:25:12.:25:15.

understood what was happening, and could have returned, but didn't, he

:25:15.:25:19.

was dying. It was a story that she couldn't tell? I would have had

:25:19.:25:23.

more sympathy for the exhibition if the work insigned it was better. I

:25:23.:25:27.

liked the embroid rees based on her drawings were beautiful. The

:25:28.:25:32.

drawings that dominate the exhibition are scratchy, formless,

:25:33.:25:42.
:25:43.:25:44.

repetitive, and covered in these descriptions, they are faux niave

:25:44.:25:48.

inscriptions. She owes us more than? That is a big thing to say,

:25:48.:25:58.

she owes us? She does. When I went to this exhibition, I thought, she

:25:58.:26:02.

embraces sculpture, she embraces embroidery, tapestry, you know,

:26:03.:26:12.
:26:13.:26:14.

wood building. She is a Rennaissance woman? She tell ago

:26:14.:26:20.

story that doesn't show what is happening, losing one kind of

:26:20.:26:24.

fertility and replacing it with another. As Plato says artistic

:26:24.:26:27.

children are better than human children. It is a big moment, she

:26:27.:26:33.

has chosen not to have children, but she has made an exhibition, in

:26:33.:26:37.

essence, about her well running drive. There is a piece called The

:26:37.:26:40.

Vanishing Lake, it is about a lake that vanishs in France in the

:26:40.:26:45.

summer and comes back in the winder. It is also about her fertility, we

:26:45.:26:49.

have had old artists before, they tend to be men, losing their fare

:26:49.:26:54.

till doesn't tend to come up. You can have a child in your 80s. This

:26:54.:27:01.

isn't a story told in an art gallery at all.

:27:01.:27:08.

She places herself with Turner and Rodan and she doesn't disappear, it

:27:08.:27:12.

could be a gimmick and she could end up being drowned. I love the

:27:12.:27:15.

idea that some of her drawings that are quick, have been turned into

:27:15.:27:20.

the patience and stillness of tapestry, given the tension between

:27:20.:27:23.

the speed of thought and the permanence of something else. That

:27:23.:27:28.

works really successfully. About the question of the tapestry,

:27:28.:27:32.

it is a very female way of working. She talks about the idea when the

:27:32.:27:37.

women get together to do the embroidery tapestry, that is art

:27:37.:27:41.

itself. You may make something quite quickly, but you transform it

:27:41.:27:46.

with the endeavour of many artists? It is clearly an exhibition that is

:27:46.:27:50.

aware of its art historical context. I don't think, like Paul, that

:27:50.:27:54.

context flatters her work. I think the rod Dan drawings and water

:27:54.:27:58.

colours are in a different league to her work, the Turner sketch,

:27:58.:28:03.

while more interesting than impressive, at least show he had

:28:03.:28:07.

the modesty to keep his scrawls to himself. Some would say because it

:28:07.:28:12.

is the time in which he lived, meant that people like Ruskin would

:28:12.:28:15.

be down his neck saying you can't have these? It works in the context

:28:15.:28:20.

of the exhibition, the windows open up to the sea, the colours. The

:28:20.:28:29.

framing of it is an imaginative leap. The buelful girl, the idea of

:28:29.:28:35.

Marie Therese Waters, she says she made herpes with pick kas he sow,

:28:35.:28:44.

who was incredibly missoingist, -- Picasso who was incredibly

:28:44.:28:47.

missoingnis, she comes to terms with it. What has always been true

:28:47.:28:52.

throughout her career, is she works like an ois ter, the thing --

:28:52.:28:56.

oyster, the thing that scratches is what she makes beautiful things out

:28:56.:29:01.

of. She is making more beautiful things than before. Make your way

:29:01.:29:06.

to Margate, tracey's exhibition is at the Turner Contemporary in

:29:06.:29:12.

Margate. Emin and her fellow British artists

:29:12.:29:17.

must owe something to the debt of the punk movement. A new three-part

:29:17.:29:23.

series on BBC Four shows the clashes of this culture that shook

:29:23.:29:33.
:29:33.:29:39.

up a boring Britain. There were two TV channel, no jobs,

:29:39.:29:46.

no future. There was a sense of boredom. What set punk apart was a

:29:46.:29:54.

voice, it was a vision of Britain and how it smelt to the youth.

:29:54.:29:58.

wanted to do something, look at me now, I'm nothing. The situation in

:29:58.:30:02.

Britain sort of produced us, it gave us a place, in a way. Because

:30:02.:30:06.

that lack of things meant that you had to do something for yourself.

:30:06.:30:12.

For me that was music. As well as tracing punk's political

:30:12.:30:17.

and cultural roots, the series features classic moments from the

:30:17.:30:22.

archives, such as the sex pistol's scandalous appearance on the Today

:30:22.:30:26.

Show. You dirty fucker. What a fucking rotter. That's it for

:30:26.:30:32.

tonight. Punk Britannia charts the protest of the punk movement, as it

:30:33.:30:38.

grew apace in the 1970, with candid interviews from its creators.

:30:38.:30:42.

would be no punk without glam. I remember watching Top Of The Pops

:30:42.:30:47.

and Boland was on doing hot love, I never saw anything like it, these

:30:47.:30:53.

girls were like whacking off. I thought, that's what I want to get

:30:53.:31:01.

stuck into. So was there really Anarchy In The UK in the 1970, or

:31:02.:31:06.

is this series nothing more than rose-tinted remembering by some

:31:06.:31:09.

ageing punk rockers? I saw you in the crowd, Paul

:31:09.:31:15.

Morley? My legs were there many times. Do you think there is a fair

:31:15.:31:18.

reflection of both the music, the culture and the politics? It is a

:31:18.:31:21.

good story, it is really well told. Some unusual voices, some

:31:22.:31:26.

unexpected vois in there, that I really liked -- voices in there.

:31:26.:31:36.
:31:36.:31:38.

You have Mark Stuart, and Wilko Johnson, the Raincoats, Viv out of

:31:38.:31:43.

The Shrilt, it is going beyond a musical story but an important

:31:43.:31:47.

moment in his treatment when you look at the sex pistols and Johnny

:31:47.:31:56.

Rotten, you are still looking into the future. It is something that

:31:57.:32:00.

happened 35 years ago and why the hell isn't it happening now. This

:32:00.:32:03.

programme tells you how that happened in a post-war situation,

:32:03.:32:07.

young people trying to find their voice, finding it in this way, that

:32:07.:32:12.

was about pop music, because it was important, but it was an artistic

:32:12.:32:14.

and political and cultural statement. This series does it

:32:14.:32:18.

really well to explain that. It is actually what is quite shocking

:32:18.:32:22.

about it, you think it was 35 years ago, and why is there nothing like

:32:22.:32:26.

it happening now, or not another counter culture movement happening

:32:26.:32:29.

exactly at the moment in Britain. We will talk about that in a moment.

:32:29.:32:33.

Some of the characters. Natalie, you are too young? What a treat to

:32:33.:32:39.

see John Cooper Clarke, and Johhn Lydon is amazingly good company. He

:32:39.:32:45.

still has John Lydon is still amazingly good company, he still

:32:45.:32:51.

has that impish glint in his eyes. I thought amazing, I watched the

:32:51.:32:55.

first two parts, I would have watched the rest of it if I could.

:32:55.:32:58.

I found it so interesting, I was not alive for the beginning of it,

:32:58.:33:02.

I will be alive for the last programme. I really loved hearing

:33:02.:33:06.

that story. I feel like punk was always the thing we weren't allowed

:33:06.:33:12.

to participate in as kids. There were spitting and things like that.

:33:13.:33:15.

Malcolm McCollateralen is explaining the whole thing about

:33:15.:33:19.

punk, saying there hasn't been a generation gap for five years,

:33:19.:33:25.

there hasn't been one for 25 years, five years! Did it seem like an old

:33:25.:33:30.

movie to you, that you didn't get your head around? I wasn't born

:33:30.:33:34.

when punk started, it was new to me. I found it a fascinating

:33:34.:33:38.

documentary. The contributors I found most interesting. How middle-

:33:38.:33:43.

class they all seemed. Rat Scabies? No? They were in well-appointed

:33:43.:33:53.
:33:53.:33:54.

homes, they were smart, they were clean, one of them was a royal axe

:33:54.:33:58.

cadacadimician, this is the curse of all avant garde movements, they

:33:58.:34:04.

always become mainstream. Some of them were very damaged, they were

:34:04.:34:11.

being damaged because, Johhn Lydon said earlier on, was how -- John

:34:11.:34:19.

Lydon said early in the programme that how mainstream the country was.

:34:19.:34:26.

A lot of them are very damaged because they didn't get a chance.

:34:26.:34:31.

Didn't John Lydon make a Countrylife Butter advert. Some

:34:31.:34:38.

punks do like butter. John Lydon could do anything he dam well wants,

:34:39.:34:42.

he inspired -- damn well wants, anything that happens in a cultural

:34:42.:34:48.

sense now is because of John Lydon, I don't care what he does, even if

:34:48.:34:54.

he accepts a Knighthood. Is it happening because people are too

:34:54.:34:58.

fragmented, the Internet, though it bliings people together, people

:34:59.:35:05.

don't -- brings people together, doesn't gather people together?

:35:05.:35:10.

Save The Queen was number two in the charts, and now they are all

:35:10.:35:14.

queuing up to play the Jubilee concert. You think what happened,

:35:14.:35:18.

when did musicians become so successful. Because the

:35:18.:35:21.

establishment appropriated popular culture quickly after punk because

:35:22.:35:24.

they realised it was a genuine danger. That is why it is difficult

:35:24.:35:28.

to be maverick in this world. As soon as you are that, it is

:35:28.:35:31.

appropriated by the mainstream. Isn't it also a financial question,

:35:31.:35:35.

that you have to be rich to have a career as a musician because you

:35:35.:35:39.

can't make much money from selling records. The parallels between then

:35:39.:35:43.

and now were one of the most fascinating bit. There were clips

:35:43.:35:46.

of young people on the street saying we have no future and we

:35:46.:35:50.

have no jobs. At least then they could vent their anger and anxiety

:35:50.:35:54.

into this extraordinary exuberant and powerful and political movement.

:35:54.:35:59.

You know the events of last year prove there hasn't been a cultural

:35:59.:36:04.

revolution. What it is is violent shopping. The media has a part to

:36:04.:36:09.

play, it is not enabling an alternative voice. As soon as you

:36:09.:36:12.

have that maverick voice now it is deemed you are spoiling the party.

:36:12.:36:16.

The whole separation between the silver and this Jubilee is

:36:16.:36:20.

extraordinary in that sense. What has got lost is the ability to have

:36:20.:36:24.

a, to use language that is protest without people saying you are

:36:24.:36:28.

whingeing and being grumpy and saying it is not as good as it used

:36:28.:36:33.

to be. Let's go back to 1977, it does seem a long time ago. This is

:36:33.:36:38.

what it all looked like then. Away from the cermonial streets

:36:38.:36:42.

throughout the land, those who stayed at home were making ready to

:36:43.:36:50.

celebrate their way. During the day at countless parties,

:36:50.:36:55.

there has been much drinking of orange squash, much eating of jelly,

:36:55.:37:00.

and at Cricklewood, much cutting of Jubilee lake. Releasing balloons on

:37:00.:37:04.

a blustery afternoon was a difficult operation, and quite a

:37:04.:37:07.

few balloons found their ways into parties and neighbouring streets.

:37:07.:37:11.

It was all watched over by older and wiser subjects, who,

:37:11.:37:14.

nevertheless, hoped that party tradition will be maintained when

:37:14.:37:18.

the children of today grow up. There is, afterall, something

:37:18.:37:23.

happily British about it all. Three cheers for the Queen! That

:37:23.:37:27.

was then, and this is now. And so how are you going to commemorate a

:37:27.:37:31.

Jubilee weekend? I have to work. I have to work tomorrow and Sunday.

:37:31.:37:38.

So, yeah, on Radio Two, is the answer on Sunday. But is there a

:37:38.:37:42.

sense this is some incredibly momentous weekend? Not remotely.

:37:42.:37:48.

I'm not even a tiny bit hurray the Queen, even on my best day. If

:37:48.:37:53.

there is anything that will make me like that, the fact that the entire

:37:53.:37:58.

vicinity of London looks like V for Vendetta, and any suggestion thaw

:37:58.:38:02.

don't agree with hurray the Queen and the Olympics, you are sort of

:38:02.:38:09.

on a par with the most kill joy earn, you might as well be

:38:09.:38:12.

guillotineed. Is that a pervading attitude if you don't take part in

:38:12.:38:17.

it? There is a lot of going along with it, and not having an outside

:38:17.:38:20.

point of view because it is not allowed. It has come down to

:38:21.:38:25.

bunting, baking and boat tox. There is no opposition. When d Botox,

:38:25.:38:29.

there is no opposition. People saying they are just having fun and

:38:29.:38:33.

having a street part, what about those who want to create an

:38:33.:38:36.

opposition, without it Britain would be where it is. Not what you

:38:36.:38:39.

are celebrating, but the psycadelic radical spirit of the country that

:38:39.:38:42.

really creates the opportunity for you to think this is a great

:38:42.:38:48.

country. It has all turned on its head slightly. I'm distressed about

:38:48.:38:54.

the meekness and obedience. Come round to mine and we will have

:38:54.:38:58.

subversive money. I will be marking exam scripts. Live the dream.

:38:58.:39:01.

don't have a particular interest in the Royal Family. I remember the

:39:01.:39:05.

royal wedding last year, I went to the library, and the only person

:39:05.:39:09.

working away. I went to the circumstance cuss. When I came out

:39:09.:39:16.

people said I was a Circumstance cuss. When I came out people said I

:39:16.:39:26.
:39:26.:39:28.

was a scrooge. I will be marking exam papers. Thank you to my guests,

:39:28.:39:33.

James, Natalie and Paul. Everything we have been discussing is on the

:39:33.:39:36.

website. We are braced for your tweets as we head towards the Green

:39:36.:39:41.

Room. Matter that is here with the book review special, locking at

:39:41.:39:48.

four literary giants. Dk looking at four literary giants.

:39:48.:39:53.

A new incarnation of Dexys, striped down just for us, from their first

:39:53.:40:00.

album in 20 years, this is I'm Thinking Of You. Good night.

:40:00.:40:04.

# From the darkest part # Of the loneliness

:40:04.:40:12.

# Of a torn and troubled man # Comes a desperate need to owe you

:40:13.:40:19.

# In every way that I can # For while you were gently growing

:40:19.:40:26.

# In this green and pleasant land # I'd already

:40:26.:40:29.

# By then # Forsaken myself

:40:29.:40:36.

# I was setting up my sham # I describe myself as a wander

:40:36.:40:44.

# We both know that's not what I am # And if you stand beside me

:40:44.:40:48.

# We'll go lower # Than I planned

:40:48.:40:58.
:40:58.:41:01.

# Because all night long # I'm thinking of you

:41:01.:41:11.
:41:11.:41:13.

# All the time # I'm thinking of you

:41:14.:41:23.

# When I go out # I'm thinking of you

:41:23.:41:32.

# When I'm home I'm thinking of you # Without your clothes

:41:32.:41:41.

# I'm thinking of you # When you're dressed up

:41:41.:41:50.

# I'm thinking of you # With your legs crossed

:41:50.:41:58.

# I'm thinking of you # And with them lots

:41:58.:42:06.

# I think of you too # I'm thinking of you

:42:06.:42:16.
:42:16.:42:16.

# Always thinking of you # Woo

:42:16.:42:24.

# Oh M # Woo

:42:24.:42:31.

# Oh # So open your heart

:42:31.:42:40.

# Let me come through # With all of my life

:42:40.:42:48.

# I'll be thinking of you # So open your heart

:42:48.:42:55.

# Just let me come through # If all of my life

:42:55.:43:05.
:43:05.:43:07.

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