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On the Book Review Show tonight, A Clockwork Orange hits50. Why are we | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
still talking about the book, the film and now the app. | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
100 years of film censorship, sensational stories from inside the | :00:28. | :00:38. | |
:00:38. | :00:38. | ||
BBFC. A new novel from the creator of | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
Reginald Perrin, The Fall And Rise of Gordon Coppinger. Yet another | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
new book from David Foster Wallace, who died four years ago. | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
And a collection in which Oliver Sachs tackles hallucinations, and | :00:52. | :01:02. | |
reveals his own student drug trips. "I want to see indigo now!" | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
Music there by Brubeck, who died on Wednesday. | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
Joining me -- Dave Brubeck, who died on Wednesday. Joing me are | :01:09. | :01:16. | |
Edward Docx, Matthew Sweet, and novelist AL Kennedy. As queer as A | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
Clockwork Orange, that old London expression, meaning completely mad, | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
caught the magpie imagination of Anthony Burgess, and became the | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
title of his most famous novel, of course, that controversial film. To | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
mark the 50th anniversary of the novel, a new edition has been | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
published, alongside an app, which reveals much of Burgess's original | :01:36. | :01:42. | |
thinking. A Clockwork Orange, is, the | :01:42. | :01:48. | |
autobiograical confession of Alex, a juvenile delinquent, whose | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
criminal excesses are dealt with aversion therapy. The book has been | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
adapted for stage and screen, most famously by Stanley Kubrick, in | :01:58. | :02:05. | |
1971. There was me, that is Alex, and my three druids, that is Pete, | :02:05. | :02:12. | |
Georgie and Dim. We sat on the milk bar, trying to decide what to do | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
with the evening. After accusations that the film had inspired several | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
acts of copycat violence, Kubrick himself asked for it to be | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
withdrawn. The fact that the film was unavailable in the UK until | :02:25. | :02:33. | |
after the director's death in 1999, only added to its infamey. | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
My brothers, would you believe your faithful friend and long-suffering | :02:39. | :02:46. | |
narator, pushed out his nazek a mile-and-a-half to lick his puts. | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
The language of the book, a mixture of Russian and Cockney, shows the | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
breath of multilingual Burgess'sal lefpbts. He maintained, despite A | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
Clockwork Orange being his best- known work, it was the one he liked | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
least. Never the less he acknowledged its serious inaccident. | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
I was present concerned with presenting a theme of my background, | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
the theme of a man's free will, the existence of good and evil, and the | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
necessity to choose between the two. If we are creatures of choice, we | :03:18. | :03:26. | |
must have two things to choose between. The app, for the iPad, | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
includes the original musical scores and scripts, plus an | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
interview with the author himself. 50 years on, with A Clockwork | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
Orange having less power to shock, does it give us a different | :03:37. | :03:43. | |
appreciation of Burgess's work, or do the themes of violence and | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
redemption still resonate. With this kind of distance of the | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
decades, a long time now since the stpim came out, do you think it | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
means he -- the film came out, do you think it means we can | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
appreciate it in a different way and context? I hadn't read it for a | :04:00. | :04:07. | |
very long time. I hate to say, work of genius, but it truly stands up. | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
He absolutely is addressing issues that will probably always be | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
relevant. The older generation will always be wondering what the | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
younger generation is getting up to, what young violent men are getting | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
up to. People will always wonder if two wrongs will make a right. He | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
puts that out there. He just gallops across, enormous issues, | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
very beautifully. You know Alex is this ultra violent, dreadful, | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
possibly you would describe him as evil, person, he loves high art, | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
and that is supposed to elevate you. It wouldn't necessarily make you a | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
better person, if you were a sociopath, just listening to | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
Beethoven. But he really is extraordinary. Again, idea of | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
predicting that we would end up speaking partly eastern European. | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
That will probably become true in about 20 years, not for the reasons | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
he thought. But he will be right. But the language he creates is | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
extraordinary. I can remember when I first read the novel, I found it | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
terrifying, and then after a while you begin to immediately understand | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
what all the words are? The great strength of this book is it is so | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
linguistically alive, that quote that we saw there, the next line is | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
something like "it was a filthy dark, winter bastard night, though | :05:25. | :05:32. | |
dry". The language, the cadance of it, the engagment with the language, | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
both the English and Nasdak, that is the Russian for "teen speak", it | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
is just compelling and powerful. Add to that it is so disturbing, | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
both disturbing to read, because you have to encounter these words, | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
but also disturbing in subject matter, and add to that, as Alison | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
says, it is about everything, it is about masculinity, alienation, it | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
is about God, it is about crime and punishment, it is about every | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
single possible important subject, or so it seems. It is bound to have | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
endured. I think also one other small point I would make, it is a | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
novel, I think, that sits in a long tradition, if you go back to Pinkie | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
in Brighton Rock, you can pick up the early part of Alex, and look | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
forward to American Psycho, people say why was there never a British | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
psycho novel, this is it. In American Psycho they kill a | :06:27. | :06:34. | |
homeless person, just as the dDrugs do early on. What shocked me re- | :06:34. | :06:40. | |
reading it, the film was firmly in my eyes, rembering that Alex was a | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
15-year-old, amoral. That is one of the things when you are reading it | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
in this form, reminds you that it is very much a product of the early | :06:50. | :06:58. | |
60s. He has those ant anti-seedents, but he has also characters from 50s | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
films. All that world is present here. | :07:01. | :07:08. | |
That language is a palarie, it alludes to things, the words that | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
sound like other words, you get at their meaning. There is a note of | :07:14. | :07:23. | |
the Catcher in the Rye, he uses the word "old" a lot. It is, what is | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
extraordinary is it is so timeless, I was thinking while reading t I | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
can't think of a more disturbing novel, that I have read, | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
subsequently. American Psycho, as you say, tries to do the same thing, | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
but is some how slightly flatter. This is so powerful. He's doing | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
something so technically difficult, to commit yourself to having a huge | :07:45. | :07:51. | |
person zone that of your vocabulary unknown to the reader, but perfect | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
context so none of it gets lost, and no glossary. It is beautiful | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
and melodic and memorable, he manages to portray evil, truly, | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
truly, truly, without rubbing your face in it, that is so difficult. | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
thought that was interesting from the clip we played there, where he | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
talked about free will, being necessary to choose between good | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
and evil. That is embodied in it absolutely. It is also interesting | :08:17. | :08:24. | |
on the app, to hear Burgess reading the book in his own voice, not just | :08:24. | :08:30. | |
the own voice but the hyperman countryian own voice. The Holloways | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
hole does it in an a whiney estuary voice, with Malcolm McDowell | :08:34. | :08:41. | |
playing the part, it should be done like Stanly Holloway doing Albert | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
and the Lion. It is so cuddly when he talks about it. It is fussy and | :08:47. | :08:56. | |
as if todayous. And charming and funny. Let's not forget the first | :08:56. | :09:03. | |
people the Drugs beat up is a writer, writing the a clock work | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
orange. The attack on Stanley Kubrick written in there itself. I | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
think it also had Burgess's own handwriting on the type script, | :09:12. | :09:19. | |
where he was playing about with some the words he was going to use. | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
The type script brings home how quickly it was written. I'm not | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
dead sure, I think he wrote four books in a year, of which this was | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
one. It came to him in a kind of extended speed dream, almost. It | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
was on the page before he knew it. It also reveal how much he got paid | :09:36. | :09:44. | |
for it, �150, that is about �6,000 in today's money. The reader's | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
report was very worried about it, it was either going to nowhere or | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
do something. They were ambivalent in the publishers. The marketing | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
plan for A Clockwork Orange, it would be a doomed freak of a book, | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
or it could catch on! We can agree it certainly did catch on. When it | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
moved from book to screen, the violent scenes attracted the | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
attention of the censors, who, controversially, allowed the film | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
to be shown. That landmark case for the British board of film censors, | :10:15. | :10:23. | |
what it was called then, that is described in a new book marking its | :10:23. | :10:30. | |
centinary, back then a film could be banned, in 1912 for holding the | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
king's uniform to contempt. Look away if you are squeamish. | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
In the 1930s, faced with a wave of American horror firms, the BBFC | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
created the H-rating, the first adults-only classification, later | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
renamed the X-certificate, it proved so attractive to audiences, | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
that some Companies Actively sought it. Hammer, the company that taste | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
forgot, in the board's review, deliberately tested what was | :10:59. | :11:07. | |
permissible. Their first adventure into horror, the Quatermass | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
Experiment. The BBFC found itself at the centre of national debates | :11:12. | :11:19. | |
about the portrayal of women, the representation of war and the | :11:19. | :11:29. | |
:11:29. | :11:30. | ||
decriminalisation of homosexuality. In Victim gay men fall victim to | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
the fortunes of blackmailer. should I fall victim. You are a | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
fashion, if young people know how you live, might they not follow. | :11:40. | :11:46. | |
Youth must be protected, we agree. As the BBFC's role became more | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
about classification than censorship, it regularly did battle | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
with the film industry, determined to maximise audiences. In order to | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
have a PG rating, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom lost a gory | :12:00. | :12:10. | |
sacrifice, only reinstated in the Blu-ray release. | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
The book also relates how the BBFC found itself under attack over | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
called video nasties, after the murder of James Bulger, some | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
newspapers and politicians claimed it had become too lenient. In 2004, | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
9 Songs, the rudest film ever to hit our cinemas, according to the | :12:30. | :12:39. | |
Mirror, was passed, uncut. But last year's The Human Centipede, was not | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
allowed any classification. Its decisions may be controversial, but | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
this book charts how the board has attempted to reflect Britain's | :12:47. | :12:54. | |
changing attitudes towards sex and violence. | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
We know the story of A Clockwork Orange, controversial but did get | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
shown N this book we have a whole century of people in the past have | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
found to be shocking? I think the main joy in reading this book, is | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
really it is a litmus of a kind of national morality, as you move from | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
100 years ago to now. You see how the board has changed what it | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
passes and what it doesn't. I was very interested in 9 Songs, that | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
was the first time real sex had been in a film. And that was very | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
difficult for them, because they felt if they passed that, it opened | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
the flood gates. But the one thing I took away from reading this, is | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
how sensible and well regulated this group of people were. How they | :13:34. | :13:40. | |
tried, admirably, often, to walk the balance between freedom and | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
censorship. The funnyiest thing is the people hammering them, night | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
and day, the press, who spend the whole time saying free speech, free | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
speech, every time there is a slightly questionable film, they | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
come running after them saying you shouldn't put it on the screen, you | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
are ruining the nation and all children will copy it. That was | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
very amusing. Did you find it amusing how morays had changed over | :14:02. | :14:08. | |
time? Yes and how they hadn't. The status quo always seems to involve | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
the working-classes being equated with children, they are easily led, | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
and many things they shouldn't be exposed to, prostitutes can't be in | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
films, because unintelligent people won't have heard about them, | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
homosexuality, everyone will want to try it if you put it on | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
television. It is sort of funny, but also horribly toxic, this | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
strange reaction against women showing sexual pleasure. That, some | :14:30. | :14:38. | |
how was awful, the idea of women having fun. And lesbianism? Oh my | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
God. Killing of Sister George caused them huge problems? | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
could imagine a little bit of gentlemen back-scuttling, a tiny | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
suggestion, women they couldn't get. These fights between Jimmy Sangster | :14:54. | :15:02. | |
and the Hammer Horror people. You often saw, underneath, a less funny | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
thing, how to hold the status quo, by prevending that political | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
control is about protecting sexual morality, and lately it is about | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
controlling sensitivity to religions, but it is about keeping | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
the status quo. It is about the general liberal organisation trying | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
to manage progress in this department. On the whole it is a | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
good story. What kind of makes me slightly depressed about the | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
situation now is, the debates about censorship happen over such | :15:33. | :15:40. | |
marginal films, The Human Send peed 2, who cares. These debates were | :15:40. | :15:46. | |
played out on screen 1 in the Odeon. We have lost something there. | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
book documents debates about Indiana Jones, and Harry Potter? | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
They are important too. What is really rich about it, is the biways, | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
and I must say -- byways, I found myself dismayed by how many of the | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
films I had seen. I will confess now, I have seen The Wife Swappers, | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
it is absolutely shocking, the wall paper is awful. The chief of the | :16:10. | :16:17. | |
wife swappers is played by the man who was Captain bird's Eye. These | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
things are traumatic, but it is a comic his treatment despite the | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
paralysingly forward that the head of the organisation now has | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
contributed. I slightly wanted, apart from the fact they keep | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
referring to research that they don't have access to, it was | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
strange that they picked so many different people from different | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
backgrounds, they do say they have the decade, here are the key films, | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
here is what happens, here is who is in charge. This is what the | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
press have lied about and beat them over the head with. You don't get, | :16:45. | :16:47. | |
here is what some of the psychological research was based on, | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
and why we don't show this, because we think it is a trigger for | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
violent behaviour. Here is a background in research about | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
whether people actually do copycat crimes. It was a little bit, it is | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
a history, but it was thin on the links between films like Texas | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
Chainsaw Massacre, and Dawn of the Dead, and Vietnam, because people | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
were coming out of that experience, and truly feeling that people | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
walking around alive were the dead walking, because eventually you | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
would be meat. That whole social background wasn't there. It is a | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
collection of essays, not written by one person, it is a lot of | :17:24. | :17:32. | |
different perspectives, it is a dip in and out. I wouldn't enjoy | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
reading the book cover-to-cover, I opened it to the pages to seeing a | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
picture I liked, I recognised it and read the back story. Very | :17:41. | :17:47. | |
interesting about the Harry Potter and the death he witnesses, I read | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
that, A Clockwork Orange I read. That it would be an academic job to | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
read it all the way through. The early stuff is fascinating, the | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
fact that the National Council for Public Morals, an organisation | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
worried about the weakening of the British race. They worried that | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
some how going to the cinema is kind of making people weak and | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
decision apatiented, they are copying things on -- dissipated, | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
they are copying things on the screen. It is a health campaign, to | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
do with hygiene, stopping people doing dirty things in dirty | :18:16. | :18:24. | |
auditoriums. I will definitely look at it again, and find out about the | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
Wife Swappers. David Nobbs didn't get where he is today without | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
knowing a thing or two about writing comedy His latest novel, | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
The Fall And Rise of Gordon Coppinger, is described his | :18:35. | :18:43. | |
business publishers, as the spiritual follow-up to a 1960s | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
trilogy, The Fall And Rise of Reginald Perrin. David Nobbs has | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
been writing for 50 years, he began as a contributor to the hit Siral | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
kal show, That Was The Week That Was, he went on to write sketches | :18:55. | :19:01. | |
for Frankie Howard, Tommy Cooper and The Two Ronies. Good evening, | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
I'm squeaking to you tonight, once again, as the chairman for the | :19:05. | :19:11. | |
loyal society for the prevention of piss-pronunciation. But it was the | :19:11. | :19:20. | |
depressed, middle-aged, middle manager at Sunshine Deserts, who | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
captured millions' imagination. What about sex? It is great fun. | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
What sort of a sex angle are we going for? I don't know, how about | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
something like, just off the top of my head, I like to stroke my nipple | :19:34. | :19:40. | |
with a strawberry ripple. character of the 19th novel is the | :19:40. | :19:48. | |
hugely rich and highly corrupt Gordon Coppinger. His life is | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
punctuated with daily exchanges between him and his butler | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
Faringdon. Faringdon got down to business, with all the newspapers | :19:58. | :20:07. | |
pages that mentioned him, Times business page 2, Sun page 2. | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
Coppinger a fill landering financier, with his own yacht, | :20:13. | :20:19. | |
skyscraper and football club, slowly wakes up his-to-his own | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
inadequacies, he find himself tapping into an all together | :20:24. | :20:31. | |
strange and foreign emotion. "with the regret came, yes, love, not | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
lust, not desire, it was his first experience, he wouldn't have | :20:36. | :20:42. | |
thought of the word, but there was no alternative for it, spiritual | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
love". Nobbs says that Coppinger is the story of a man whom the world | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
slowly drives sane. The opposite of Perrin, whom the world drovelyly | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
mad. -- slowly mad, but has he been wise to invite comparison between | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
the two. Does Coppinger do for the 2010s, what Perrin did for the | :21:01. | :21:10. | |
1970s. So, Matthew, the, The Fall And Rise | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
of Gordon Coppinger, clearly referring back to Reginald Perrin, | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
this is a very contemporary setting? Absolutely, spookily, | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
there are references to the Vujadin Savic says in this. He must have | :21:22. | :21:27. | |
been -- Jimmy Saville case in this, he must have been waiting by the | :21:27. | :21:33. | |
printing press. It is strangely archaic too, it is very much rooted | :21:33. | :21:39. | |
in post-war comic writing. In this tramps drink meths, they don't now, | :21:39. | :21:46. | |
they drink Tennan it's Super. But that world is preserved in the | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
novel. If you look at a cartoon in a newspaper, you might see drunk | :21:51. | :22:00. | |
with crossed eyes, or two men on a desert island with one palm tree. | :22:00. | :22:05. | |
G I found myself thinking this is very much about spending time in a | :22:05. | :22:15. | |
1970s toilet, with a man trying to make a Canary Wharf film of Carry | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
On, it was thin. By page 56 a line went something like, the day had | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
been strangely about urine, I thought why am I reading this. The | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
characters were cardboard and cliched. The football player called | :22:30. | :22:38. | |
Bogoff, the manager called Thickness, the secretary called | :22:38. | :22:45. | |
Grimaldi, more grim than aldi. The description of sex, it was like he | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
raised her rates of interest and then made his deposit. That wasn't | :22:49. | :22:56. | |
the worst of it. The worst of it was when the novel tried to do the | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
intropex and analysis of culture that would have embarrassed Boris | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
Johnson. It was cringey, I'm afraid. I find not much to love. Say what | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
you really think? I thought there was plenty of good gags in this | :23:10. | :23:16. | |
book. I'm amused by the idea of a patriot. Bum gags! A man so | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
patriotic that the company he has manufacturing coffee is called | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
National Espresso, there are things that are delightful in that. I | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
don't think it is the best thing he has ever written. I think some how | :23:29. | :23:35. | |
this novel is in dialogue with the work of Jonathan Coe, the great | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
advocate of David Nobbs. His quote is on the front. If you read it | :23:38. | :23:45. | |
together with the privacy of Maxwell Simm, Co-'s last novel, -- | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
Coe, it is almost like they should get together and write something. | :23:49. | :23:55. | |
It made me panic for Coe, someone else wrote "witty" on the back, I | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
worried for them. Who is it written for? I don't think it is for you. I | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
think it is for gentlemen who wear pink elephant corduroy trousers, | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
and and coming to the conclusion that Tony Blair isn't entirely | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
honest, it explains some of the financial crisis for those who | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
don't understand the market. doesn't explain the financial | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
crisis that hit the market. It is a caricature of a 70s businessman. | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
lot of modern books about the financial crisis, the bankers are | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
all villains, he tries to make us sympathise with the predicament of | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
some of them? The difference is, with Reginald Perrin, he has the | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
perfect character for his gift. The Reginald Perrin character is | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
frustrated, cornered, and able to remark, amusingly, on being | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
underpowered. The problem with Gordon Coppinger is he has the | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
world at his feet. That mode of discourse, of somebody who is | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
finding things a bit bemusing doesn't work with the character who | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
is powerful. Can he really be portrayed as an underdog? I'm not | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
sure. This is rather like Reginald Perrin narrated by CJ. From the man | :25:06. | :25:12. | |
in the position of power. What bothered me about it, the parallels | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
between Reginald Perrin may have been imposed by his publishers, | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
actually, who wanted, he wanted to call it Coppinger, I think, and the | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
title. He makes jokes in the book, when Gordon Coppinger is talking | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
about disappearing, he does say at one point, should he put the | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
clothes on the beach and disapee, somebody says it has been done? | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
title of the description of what happens in the book is not terribly | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
accurate. It is not, he's not an underdog, Reginald Perrin was the | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
underdog who said the unsayable, this man is allowed to say the | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
unsayable all the time. At one point we are being asked to take | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
seriously the familiaral relationship. There were a couple | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
of feens scenes I enjoyed between the father and the daughter, I | :25:58. | :26:06. | |
began to be engaged, and thought it was a book to invest emotional | :26:06. | :26:13. | |
energy into it, then it's back to the Carry On jokes. It is funny, | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
the man burning to death in the pie factory. I think the pie factory | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
apparently led vegetarians all around the country to decide they | :26:21. | :26:28. | |
had to start eating meat again. Over four decades, the neurologist, | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
Oliver Sachs, has attempted to explain the mechanics of the human | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
brain to a general readership. Best known for his books, The Man Who | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
Mistook His Wife For A Hat, and Awakenings, this latest foray into | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
the mind is called Hallucinations. Sachs's books give eloquent and | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
often entertaining accounts of his patient, they have earned him a | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
reputation as the accessible voice of neuroscenes. He was even | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
immortalised in the film version of Awakenings, played by Robin | :26:59. | :27:06. | |
Williams. Where are my glasss? your face. Sachs calls his new book | :27:06. | :27:12. | |
an anthology of hallucinations. He begins with Rosalie, a woman in her | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
90s suffering from Charles Bonnet syndrome. Named after the 18th | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
century Swiss scientist, who suffered hallucinations when his | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
own eyesight failed. "When I arrived and greeted her, I was | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
surprised to see she was completely blind. Though she had not seen | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
anything at all for several years, she was now seeing things right in | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
front of her. "What sort of things?" I asked. "People in | :27:38. | :27:48. | |
eastern dress in drapes, walking up and down stairs" she exclaimed. I | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
observed that while she was hallucinating her eyes were open, | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
and even though she could see nothing, her eyes moved here and | :27:54. | :28:01. | |
there, as if looking at an actual scene." For the very first time, | :28:01. | :28:07. | |
Sachs writes about his own youthful experiments with drugs, which he | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
believes helped him empathise with patients throughout the years. | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
long wanted to see true indigo, and thought drugs might be the way to | :28:14. | :28:23. | |
do this. So, one sunny Saturday in 1964, I developed a farm ma logic | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
launch pad consisting of basic amphetamine for general arousal, | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
and LSD for all Luis nation intensity, and a touch of cannabis | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
for a little added delerium. About 20 minutes after taking this, I | :28:39. | :28:47. | |
faced a white wall and excomplaipld, and said "I want to see ind -- and | :28:47. | :28:55. | |
exclaimed, and said "I want to see indigo now". Has it silenced | :28:55. | :29:03. | |
crickets who baulk at Sachs's anecdotes, and accused him of a man | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
who has mistaken patients for a literary career. What struck me is | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
the range of hallucinations there are, people hearing, seeing, | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
smelling things that aren't there, in many different ways? It is | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
remarkable. In previous times he quotes the experiment where people | :29:21. | :29:27. | |
said they had an auditry perception, and they were immediately diagnosed | :29:27. | :29:35. | |
as skets Frenchic and locked up for long periods of time. An experiment | :29:35. | :29:44. | |
-- skets Frenchic and -- skits sow Frenchic and locked foup for a long | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
time. He does say sometimes when people go blind their mechanisms of | :29:48. | :29:53. | |
themselves produce things to see, and produce things a comforting | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
near-death experience, and it is merciful. On the other hand he was | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
quietly saying, maybe all of the supernatural things we believe in, | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
and maybe heaven and hell and Gods and angels are all based on the | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
fact that we hallucinate a lot more than we think, most people won't | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
admit it, because it tends to make people think you are nuts. I found | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
some of it quite terrifying to read. The fear that the reading of it | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
might make it happen to you? Don't you want it to happen to you while | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
you are reading it. Sachs describes hall Luisating as an essential part | :30:27. | :30:37. | |
:30:37. | :30:38. | ||
of human experience -- hall Luisating as an -- hallucinating as | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
part of the human experience. I had one of these things when I had a | :30:41. | :30:48. | |
job on a potting machine, I had to stare at it all day and I could | :30:48. | :30:54. | |
still see it when I closed my eyes. The idea is experiments done on | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
students weren't allowed to see anything? You are deprived of all | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
stimulation, you begin to find it yourself. It is something I | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
actually have seen in my own relatives. My grandfather, before | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
he died, thought he could see his own life projected on a screen in | :31:09. | :31:18. | |
the room in which he died. It is all very vivid, all this material. | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
I particularly was engaged with the idea of bereavement hallucinations, | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
and how common they were, and a possible explanation for when | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
people think they are seeing ghosts of loved ones? The book was | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
fascinating, for all of the reasons we are saying. He is very good on | :31:35. | :31:43. | |
bereavement, and the moment between sleep and being awake. My one minor | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
gripe with it, if you like. I felt there was a little whiff of the | :31:49. | :31:56. | |
Rushdie, a little kind of, there is a brilliant passage. You might be | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
hallucinating that? There is a brilliant passage where he talks | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
about his own hallucination, he has just finished a book on migraine, | :32:05. | :32:07. | |
there is nobody with the humanity and science to write the book he | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
has been reading. He has the hallucination, and a voice says you | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
are the man why don't you do it. His main hallucination is to remind | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
himself how good he is. One of the criticisms made of him in the past, | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
is he has exploited his patients and their stories. The fact that he | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
is willing to talk about what has happened to him, may take the sting | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
of that away to a certain degree? On the one hand you are thinking, | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
OK, because you are Oliver Sachs, people will give you the material | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
for the next boob. On the other hand, he sits there -- book. And on | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
the other hand, he sits there and gets thousands of e-mails a year | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
and tries to help people, and demonstrates what a proper doctor | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
and diagnosis is, take the story of the person, if you can't cure them, | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
explain what is wrong and give them that comfort. If you can find out | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
what is wrong and get them cured, why not. There is a big story | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
emerging. The inescapability of culture. There is the woman who | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
hallucinates Kermit the frog, and says he means nothing to me. When | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
Sachs has his own hallucination, this is after he has taken LSD, he | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
imagines a spider talking to hill, not in the voice of BertramRussell, | :33:20. | :33:29. | |
but in the voice of Jonathan Miller's impersonation of Bertram | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
Russell. I admired the humanity of the book. | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
If you take it with all of his other books, especially the | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
Musicophilia, which I love, you get this sense of a man trying to | :33:39. | :33:44. | |
understand human beings through the mind. It is such a life project, | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
and such a wonderful body of work. As in so many of his books, the | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
science is beautifully clear, isn't it? It is beautiful and clear, and | :33:54. | :33:59. | |
he's trying to commune kai. He's talking about things that are very | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
-- Communicate. He's talk about things that are difficult to | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
understand. He's very gently, but devastatingly critical of the sort | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
of mental health establishment who don't take time. And who completely, | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
it is horrifying the image of becoming older and losing some of | :34:14. | :34:20. | |
your faculties, and people just assuming that you are barmy. | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
think that game across extremely clearly in Michael Sachs's book, | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
Hallucinations. Both Flesh And Not is the third book by David Foster | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
Wallace, to be published since his death in 2008, though he Best | :34:34. | :34:40. | |
Friends known for Infinite Jest, he was also a prolific -- he is best | :34:40. | :34:49. | |
known for Infinite Jest, he was also a prolific essay writer. | :34:49. | :34:56. | |
This beacon tains those. Federer Both Flesh And Not, the first essay, | :34:56. | :35:06. | |
:35:06. | :35:09. | ||
is a meticulous desection of his style of play at the 2007 season. | :35:09. | :35:16. | |
"genius is not rep cable. Inspiration is contagious and | :35:16. | :35:18. | |
multiform. Seeing it close up, power and aggression made | :35:18. | :35:24. | |
vulnerable to beauty, is to feel inspired, and in a fleet, immortal | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
way, reconciled. Towards the end of the book comes his introduction to | :35:28. | :35:37. | |
the Best American Essays 12007. His comments there -- 2007. His | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
comments give a poignant insight into Wallace's own state of mind. | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
The total noise the sound of our US culture right now, a culture of | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
info, spin, rhetoric and context, that I know I'm not alone in | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
finding too much to absorb, much less to try to make sense of, or | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
organise into any kind of tryage of sail yency or value. David Foster | :36:00. | :36:07. | |
Wallace is an author who inspires tagsate devotion from fans, is this | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
-- devotion from fans. Should its publication be soundtracked by the | :36:11. | :36:21. | |
noise of a barrel being scraped? David Foster Wallace is one of | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
those writers who commands huge cult status almost. Do you think | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
this book of essays is for the fan club, or a wider readership will | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
engage? I am one of those fans. But I think this book is not just for | :36:35. | :36:45. | |
:36:45. | :36:47. | ||
the fans. I'm a reluctant fan, I thought The Pale King is nothing | :36:47. | :36:53. | |
like as good as everyone seems to say it is. This is a wonderful | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
companion with a man totally engaged with the vast culture in | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
which we now live. You watch him developing through the essays, and | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
trying toe get more of a handle on. That I know you will complain about | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
the foot notes, he's like watching a football player doing keepy-ups | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
while there is a game on. I realise that about him. But you have to | :37:13. | :37:20. | |
admire his language and love of language. No you don't! You can't | :37:20. | :37:28. | |
start a sentence "and, but, so" and expect it to end well. You can't | :37:28. | :37:35. | |
talk about consentric because it doesn't mean. I found myself | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
revolving in my grave on his behalf, because I'm sure the essays weren't | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
put out in his life, he wouldn't copy edited them. He wouldn't have | :37:43. | :37:49. | |
had two descriptions of somebody serving in tennis. He wouldn't have | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
repeated triage standing there like a dead horse in a field. The first | :37:54. | :38:00. | |
essay on tennis was outstanding? is extraordinary, it is an essay | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
about Roger Federer, the sermon John Dunne would have given by | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
Roger Federer. It describes what he does in terms that, you know, maybe | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
something that would occur to somebody deeply involved in it. I | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
know anything about t I was enthralled. Most of the rest of it, | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
however, I could have happily lived without. Some of it is absolutely | :38:20. | :38:27. | |
embarrassing. The essay where he thinks age is a good thing. | :38:27. | :38:37. | |
misjudgment of the aids crisis, it will -- AIDS crisis, it will | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
sharpen up our relationships! one of the greatest writers of the | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
last 20 years. Being embarrassed in public after his death. In all of | :38:45. | :38:51. | |
the essays, you don't really always want to go sa see a huge Beethoven | :38:52. | :38:58. | |
sich knee, sometimes you want something small -- sich niece, | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
sometimes -- symphony, sometimes you want something smaller. The | :39:02. | :39:09. | |
piece about how he chose being a deciderer. The piece on writing is | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
beautiful and heart-breaking. is three great pieces. Out of an | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
essay with more than that, it is embarrassing, he would have been | :39:16. | :39:23. | |
mortified, you know's a total pedant, he makes fun of that, it | :39:23. | :39:30. | |
would have made his skin crawl. He talks about the abyss of fiction | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
being emptiness and nothingness. And the abyss of non-fiction. | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
wasn't sure of the decision of the publishers to include the writer's | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
list of words between each chapter? These are things salvaged from his | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
hard drive, aren't they. humiliating him again, you made him | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
spot the word for that month that he hammered into the sentence that | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
shouldn't have been there and is uncommunive. It demonstrates how | :39:57. | :40:07. | |
you can get tired of fine writing. I don't think it is, it is very | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
engaged. When he approaches a subject, he does so with absolute | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
engagment. Be that tennis, or writing, I agree the AIDS essay is | :40:16. | :40:23. | |
one of the worst. Cinema? That is a niave essay, the one on Terminator | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
2, don't give film makers too much money they will squander it. | :40:27. | :40:34. | |
says something interesting about women, it is the only films with | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
women not sexualised but maternal. He has never less than engaging. I | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
have read all of his essays, I would say two or three of the best | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
of them are in this book. Let's move on to something, I hope you | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
will find more agreement. It is that time of year when everybody | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
seems to be choosing the best Book of the Year. We have asked each | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
panellist to choose one book that they thought deserved a bit more | :40:59. | :41:08. | |
attention than it has received so far. The book I enjoyed most was | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
Nicholas Rhodes biography of Keats, it takes us to the medical room | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
when he was a student. And talks about radical Enfield, this hot bed | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
of new ideas and new thinking. Terrific and beautifully written. | :41:23. | :41:29. | |
Vultures' Picnic by Greg Palace, an old school investigative journalist, | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
largely funded by charities now, because no-one can afford it. It | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
beautifully explains so many outrageous things about the power | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
industry. And about the financial skullduggery, if you want to know | :41:42. | :41:47. | |
why Greece is broke, it explains very clearly why Greece is broke, | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
beautiful book f they implemented Leveson at all, there would be | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
enough room for that kind of journalism to exist again, instead | :41:54. | :42:00. | |
of lots of gossip about celebrities who have been out with no knickers. | :42:00. | :42:07. | |
I'm going to say Thomas Penn's Winter King, it is a wonderful | :42:07. | :42:13. | |
biography of Henry VII, it combines fantastic scholarship with great | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
story telling. The best history Book of the Year. The book that got | :42:18. | :42:25. | |
unjustly trashed, Lionel Asbo, I thought it was a return to form for | :42:25. | :42:33. | |
Amis. I injod it very much. were snorting there? That was an | :42:33. | :42:39. | |
advertant. Our panels had different views? They were wrong. | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
I asked on Twitter, what some of the books people suggested, there | :42:43. | :42:50. | |
were a few came up, Hawthorn and Child, Keith Ridgeway. The one I | :42:50. | :42:57. | |
liked best was from Wayne he suggested Fifty Shades of Grey, he | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
said it was a sleeper but with a push could be popular. My thanks to | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
Edward Docx, AL Kennedy and Matthew Sweet. As usual we will find | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
details of everything we have discussed tonight on our website. | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
Now next week Kirsty is going to be back, with a show packed with | :43:15. | :43:20. | |
Christmas treats, Matthew Bourne's new version of Sleeping Beauty, the | :43:20. | :43:26. | |
Spice Girls movie, Viva Forever, and the sequel to the Snowman, he | :43:26. | :43:32. | |
has a snowdog. Had she lived, Beryl Bainbridge would have celebrated | :43:32. | :43:37. |