TalkTalk Don't Get Done Get Dom


TalkTalk

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Transcript


LineFromTo

I've been fighting your consumer battles for years.

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But there are still many companies trying to get one over on you.

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They don't care. As long as the cash register is going ching, ching, ching, that is all they care about.

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Thousands of you are still subject to an array of unfair treatment.

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From poor customer service to hidden small print and faulty products.

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What can we do? Make a complaint, maybe,

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that will get lost in the telecommunications abyss?

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These companies simply don't seem to care and are causing you,

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the consumer, a lot of unnecessary stress.

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But never fear.

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I'll take on your consumer battles to make sure you don't get done.

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And coming up on today's show:

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one man's insistence he DIDN'T TalkTalk.

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The bill looked so ridiculous. It had dozens and dozens of calls to Jamaica,

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to mobile numbers I don't recognise.

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We find out some shocking truths about those

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protecting your home from damp.

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He had taken over £3 million from homeowners

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and hard-working individuals for work that was either completely unnecessary,

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or was done to an extremely poor standard.

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And we hit the streets to see

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if you know your sales of goods from your sold as seens.

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-Wow!

-That is very interesting.

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There's some great things have come out of Bristol city - Ribena, plimsolls...

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It is where Concorde was designed

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and it is also where the Queen made the first long-distance direct dial phone call -

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from here, Telephone Avenue.

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Good morning, your Majesty, if you are watching.

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So, it was a royal digit that revolutionised the telephone industry.

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But sadly, not everyone in Bristol

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is as happy about their long-distance phone calls.

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And one such man is Alan Polden

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who moved into his flat in February 2009

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and decided to stay with his existing telephone provider, TalkTalk.

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TalkTalk sent a BT Openreach engineer to connect me,

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and then the line was activated on 30 April.

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But things went badly from the start.

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While TalkTalk attempted to get Alan up and running in his new home,

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a catalogue of errors ensued.

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After being connected for a week, I was cut off for a week.

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Then I was cut off for bills I had paid in full.

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But these troubles were nothing compared to what was about to land on Alan's doormat.

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The next big problem with TalkTalk was the 6th August bill.

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The bill looked so ridiculous. It had dozens and dozens of calls to Jamaica,

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to mobile numbers I don't recognise.

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I never phone mobile numbers from a landline, because it's expensive.

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I just phone from pay-as-you-go.

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His bill was for £77.34,

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which was nearly four times as much as Alan's bills normally were.

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I phoned up TalkTalk, fully assuming

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they would be able to sort this out reasonably easily.

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After being passed around lots of different departments,

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they eventually agreed to strike the bill of 6th August in full and add £50 credit.

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Good on you, Alan, a right little consumer champion.

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But unfortunately, that was only the first battle over.

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My next bill is the 6th September bill

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for which not only does the previous stricken bill of 6 August reappear,

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but dozens and dozens more calls

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to numbers I don't recognise in Jamaica and some mobile numbers.

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Mystery calls to mobiles and Jamaica?

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Alan was livid and did not feel that TalkTalk were doing enough.

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Their response was that they conducted an examination of raw data

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and sent out a telephone engineer to check the integrity of my line.

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They then said that there was no possibility of fraud and I was liable.

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I can't say how these numbers have occurred

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but I know that I didn't make them. They were not made from inside my flat,

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no-one else made them.

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So we have to look at other possibilities

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of how this could have occurred, one of which is billing error.

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The other one is fraud.

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Alan says he didn't make the calls and TalkTalk say that he did.

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With no-one backing down, the bills just kept going up.

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The last letter from a debt recovery agency that I received,

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was for £614.

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There would be absolutely no way I could pay that at all.

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That is one battle with one very large phone operator

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about one very large phone bill,

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itemising dozens of calls Alan is adamant he didn't make.

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One call Alan did make, however, was to me.

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So I have come to Bristol to see if I can get to the bottom of his problems.

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-Alan, good morning.

-Hello.

-How are you?

-Fine, thank you.

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Step out here, young man. Let's make the most of the sunshine while it's here.

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'Firstly, I always like to give all parties the benefit of the doubt.

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'So I need to clear a few things up.'

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It's the obvious thing for me to ask here,

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do you know anybody who lives in Jamaica?

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-No.

-Have you ever been there?

-No, never had a passport.

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-None of your friends Jamaican?

-No.

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-So there's absolutely no connection at all?

-No.

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So what did TalkTalk say about that?

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They said that they have conducted an internal investigation

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and looked at the raw data and I am liable.

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-Are you happy with that as a response?

-No.

-Why not?

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Because I know that I did not make those calls

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and nobody else has had access to the phone over the period.

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I have got my own front door,

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only I have got the keys. It is a small flat.

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If anyone was making phone calls, I'd know about it.

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Now, I know TalkTalk sent an engineer out.

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But I am intrigued as to what extent they investigated.

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I asked the telephone engineer, what are you checking?

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He checked from my phone socket to the local telephone exchange.

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-So we are talking about from upstairs...

-Yes.

-In your flat, to the local exchange here,

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which normally has a distance of about half a mile maximum-ish.

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With no evidence of tampering or untoward activity found,

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and TalkTalk saying Alan had to pay for the calls,

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he sought help from numerous different sources, even before me!

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I went to my local police station with my bills

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and suggested that there could be fraud.

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They admitted that the distribution

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and number of calls was suspicious, but they couldn't investigate the matter

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unless the phone company or the ombudsman asked them to.

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In October 2009, Alan wrote to Otelo,

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the ombudsman for the communications industry.

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They accepted on face value any statements by TalkTalk.

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It was beyond their remit to investigate fraud.

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So, based on TalkTalk's report,

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Otelo concluded that Alan was liable for the calls.

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I tried to contact the media, I contacted my MP,

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various solicitors, National Debtline, Consumer Direct,

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none of these people could investigate it. Then who?

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It sounds like I might be Alan's last chance to try to settle

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this final debt collection bill of £614.34.

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-Could you afford to pay that, if push came to shove?

-No.

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OK. Hence the reason you are disputing it.

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-It is not yours, and you don't have the money.

-No.

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But you are happy to pay calls that you made,

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but not in relation to this particular bill.

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Yes, for the period that TalkTalk was actually providing me with a phone service, yes.

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Right. Now, that sounds interesting. Expand on that, tell me what has happened?

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As soon as Otelo gave the final judgement,

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they cut me off on the 24th March 2010,

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but they were still billing me for a call package, about 23 quid a month,

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between 24th of March 2010 and 8th of November 2010.

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-You are talking about at least eight months, at £25, £23 a month?

-Yes.

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-Which is nearly 200 quid on top?

-Yes.

-But you were disconnected?

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I could get incoming calls, but I had no internet and I could make no outgoing calls.

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And in your £23 a month package, you should have had internet and outgoing calls as well?

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-And free evening and weekends.

-What do you think of TalkTalk and the way they have handled this?

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They have gone out of their way to make things as difficult as possible.

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This is quite a simple issue where

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there was a very unusual call pattern to numbers that are not itemised

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in my bills before or after these periods, which looked suspicious. Very odd.

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Calls at all times of the day or night, to Jamaica,

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and they should have looked at that bill and gone, this is not my normal call pattern. It looks suspicious.

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I'm a bit worried that it is been going on for two years, and it is still going on.

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-I'll see what I can do.

-Thank you.

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I'm particularly concerned about Alan's case and this is the reason why.

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He is adamant that he has not made those phone calls

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and he has tried absolutely everything to resolve the situation himself.

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He spoke to TalkTalk, he has been to the ombudsman,

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he has been to the police, he has even involved his local MP.

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Now he is trying me and I am his last chance.

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I really don't want to let him down.

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Now, regarding the disappointing customer service Alan experienced,

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other consumers have felt the same.

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According to telecoms regulator Ofcom, for two years straight,

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TalkTalk have been the most complained about telecoms provider

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and lost 43,000 customers

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in three months last year as a result of bad service.

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I hope I am one of the lucky ones, as it is time to get cracking on Alan's case.

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Right, time to make my first call to TalkTalk.

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One of the first things I do,

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whenever I see a company has got 0870 numbers, profit-sharing numbers, I don't use them.

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So let's get an alternative number from the internet, which you can do.

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Non-geographic numbers are much more expensive than standard calls,

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so I avoid them at all costs. Here we go.

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A whole list of numbers.

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DIALLING

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'We are currently experiencing high call volumes

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'which may result in a delay in answering your call.'

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This is what gets me about these communication companies.

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You wait ages for a call to be answered. There's very little communication.

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It happens time and time again.

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I might have found a cheaper number, but it is nearly 10 minutes till I finally get through

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to what I have been told is the right department.

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Good afternoon, you are through to TalkTalk customer service. How can I help?

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Hi there, good afternoon.

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My name is Dominic Littlewood and I'm calling from the BBC.

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I'm phoning on behalf of one of your customers who has a query with his bill

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and I wondered if you could tell me if I'm speaking to the right department,

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or point me in the right direction, please.

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No, you are through to the right department. You are through to customer service.

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I explained that I'm taking on Alan's case

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and although I have his written permission, they tell me Alan has to call himself first,

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and they won't give out company e-mail addresses.

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What is your surname please, could you spell it for me?

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Er, we can't give the surname.

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Right, so do you give an extension number, or any way of identifying you?

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There is only one phone line for this call to India.

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Do you have a direct dial number to come through to you?

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No, we don't have. The call can land anywhere.

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So, if I phone up this call centre my call could land on at least 100 different desks?

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The call can land anywhere - to India, to Philippines, to South Africa. Anywhere.

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So it could go to the Philippines, South Africa, or India?

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So how do I get to speak to somebody a second time?

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No, the call can land anywhere.

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How can I speak to somebody once, and then call them back? Can you tell me that?

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No, there is no possibility that I will be taking up your call again.

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-OK. So it can't be done? OK.

-No, it can't be done.

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So every single time I phone, I have to speak to somebody,

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and they could be hundreds of different people,

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I have to explain the whole situation again, is that correct?

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Yes, you are correct.

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-OK, you can't help me any more. Thank you for your time.

-Thank you for calling TalkTalk.

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What a pathetic situation!

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That is a communication company who say that if you want to speak to me again, you'd have to ring.

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It could go to Philippines, South Africa, or India.

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There are hundreds of people who might pick the phone up

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but I can't give you my surname and you can't come through to me.

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It's a game of luck.

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It's just the beginning of my TalkTalk journey

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and my luck is in short supply when it comes to this case.

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HE SOBS

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TalkTalk, they won't talk talk.

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Oh, no.

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Birmingham, the second most populated city in the UK.

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But how much do you, the residents of this wonderful city, know about consumer law?

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What kind of knowledge do you have about right, refunds and regulations?

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My researchers are in Birmingham city centre to find out

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how much the average consumer knows about their entitlement when it comes to buying goods and services.

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First question:

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"You had your house decorated three weeks ago by a professional

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"but the wallpaper is already starting to peel away.

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"You complain to the decorators but they explain that the wallpaper was done by another company

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"that they employed and you should complain to them. What do you do?"

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Surely if you get them to do it,

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aren't they responsible for the whole package?

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I'd go to the company I originally took out the contract with.

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I believe if I took it out with them,

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they are responsible at the end of the day.

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It may be the first company's fault.

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Good stuff, with three right answers there.

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If a trader uses subcontractors, they are responsible

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for the subcontractors' actions and workmanship.

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The trader you contracted must arrange to have the problems fixed.

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Any claim you have will be against them, not the subbies.

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Next up:

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"You have new windows fitted and the joiner says you can pay him in instalments.

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"You inform him that next month you will be making a late payment

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"and he sends you an invoice adding interest to your bill. Can he do this?"

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I don't think you can do that without it having been in the contract.

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I don't know, if you are making a late payment,

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that happens with your mortgage, doesn't it, so probably yes.

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Not sure, I'm going to say yes.

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Since April 2002, businesses have been able to charge 8% above the base rate

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on the day a debt becomes overdue.

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They are not obliged to tell you in advance of their intention to charge a late payment.

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And they do not have to mention it in their contract.

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Cool. Well, not cool, actually, but...

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Yup. Be careful of that one.

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Next up:

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"You cancel a holiday two days before you fly

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"because your mother goes into hospital for an illness she has been suffering from.

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"Can you claim a refund on your holiday from your insurers?"

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Yes. You can, can you? I say yes.

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-I think that's quite a valid reason, personally.

-Yes.

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Because it's an existing illness and it's two days before, you probably can't claim.

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She is correct. But the only one!

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You have to inform your insurance company if the holiday may be affected

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by the illness or death of someone close to you.

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As the person has an underlying condition which you haven't disclosed,

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the insurer would be unlikely to pay out.

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-You wouldn't think of that!

-What if you didn't know.

-Yeah. Wow, that's very interesting.

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Interesting, indeed.

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To stop being burned while not on holiday,

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always read insurance terms and conditions.

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So that's another successful day out educating you consumers so you don't get done.

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Earlier on, I met Alan Polden from Bristol

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who has had trouble with telephone provider TalkTalk

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in the form of numerous calls abroad and to mobiles which Alan is adamant he didn't make.

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I've never been abroad, never had a passport, why would I call Jamaica?

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Following a technical check, TalkTalk and Otelo,

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the ombudsman, concluded that Alan must have made the calls

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and TalkTalk have cut off his outgoing service,

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yet continued to charge him for it.

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My first call to TalkTalk demonstrated that

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their customer service department are a nightmare to deal with.

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Every single time I phone, I have to speak to somebody,

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and they could be hundreds of different people I have to explain the whole situation to again,

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-is that correct?

-Yes, you are correct.

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So I have certainly got my work cut out.

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And Alan is stuck with a huge bill of £614.34.

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One of the most disturbing things about Alan's case is the fact

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that so many people have tried to help him and failed.

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But you know what? That's just the sort of challenge I thrive on.

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Now, you have got to remember that ridiculous phone conversation I had

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with that person when I was banging my head against a wall.

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I have done some homework now and managed to get somebody in the UK!

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Ooh! Just that is what I needed. And now I'm going to make a first phone call to him.

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DIALLING

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PHONE RINGS

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'Hello. Cisco Unity Connection messaging system.

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'Sorry, the operator is not available.'

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HE SOBS

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TalkTalk don't want to talk talk. Oh, no. I'm going to try again.

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DIALLING

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PHONE RINGS

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'This time, someone picks up.' Oh, hi. It's Dominic Littlewood calling from the BBC.

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There is a couple of things I need to request at the moment.

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'Almost immediately, I hit another roadblock.'

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It seems ludicrous that you don't want to give me your contact details

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so that I can send you details of what I'm investigating.

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TalkTalk is a communications company. You don't seem to want to communicate.

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'So just like during my first call to TalkTalk,

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'the person refuses to give me his contact details. What is this, company policy?'

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I want to use some language now which...

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I'm not allowed to on telly. TalkTalk, communications company?

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Absolutely, total different ends of the spectrum.

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That guy wouldn't even give me an e-mail address.

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He said I need to have consent from Alan Polden saying that you can deal with this problem.

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I said, fine, I've got it. I will e-mail it through.

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He wouldn't even give me an e-mail address.

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But I got the name of the CEO of TalkTalk

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and now I'm going to send it directly through to her. That'll put a cat amongst the pigeons.

0:19:270:19:32

After at least being given the CEO's details by the person at TalkTalk,

0:19:320:19:37

I send a strongly worded e-mail to her, asking many questions.

0:19:370:19:42

But the main one is why, when Alan reported these Jamaican calls

0:19:420:19:46

were fraudulent, did they allow them to carry on happening?

0:19:460:19:50

Well, the e-mail seems to have had the right effect because within hours,

0:19:500:19:54

I am sent the number of a senior member of the CEO's office, Mark Schmid,

0:19:540:19:59

and I'm able to put forward some questions.

0:19:590:20:01

My first relates to the engineer's investigation TalkTalk commissioned.

0:20:010:20:05

That report, obviously Mr Polden hasn't seen it,

0:20:050:20:08

we have not seen it, could we have a copy?

0:20:080:20:12

I haven't seen that, either. But I will go away and ask that question.

0:20:120:20:17

Next question, their handling of Alan's case.

0:20:170:20:21

You have a duty of care, as far as I'm concerned,

0:20:210:20:23

to say, "We will block these calls, are you happy for us to do so?"

0:20:230:20:27

He says, "Yes, I'm not making them, please do so."

0:20:270:20:29

Then you're investigating a matter which is £77-odd.

0:20:290:20:32

Not, now, £614, because it has spiralled out of control.

0:20:320:20:37

And nearly a third of Alan's total bill is for a call package

0:20:370:20:41

when he didn't even have an outgoing service.

0:20:410:20:43

I don't believe TalkTalk have done a particularly good job there.

0:20:430:20:47

Bye-bye.

0:20:470:20:48

Both barrels. TalkTalk. Ooh, I just want to say so much!

0:20:520:20:56

Anyhow, what I have said is right. Mr Polden reported it as fraud.

0:20:560:21:01

Stop the calls, end of problem. Right, now let's investigate.

0:21:010:21:04

Not let's investigate, let his bill go really high and then bill him for it, and disconnect him!

0:21:040:21:09

It's no wonder Alan is so upset with TalkTalk.

0:21:120:21:16

In the three years since this dispute,

0:21:160:21:18

they have given him absolutely nothing.

0:21:180:21:20

So it's no wonder that Ofcom have named TalkTalk as the most

0:21:200:21:23

complained about telecoms company in the whole of the UK.

0:21:230:21:28

My research reveals that the TalkTalk group, founded in 2003,

0:21:280:21:32

provide telephone, TV and broadband services to the UK.

0:21:320:21:37

But unfortunately, of late,

0:21:370:21:39

consumers are talk talking about them for all the wrong reasons.

0:21:390:21:43

Telecoms regulator Ofcom have fined them

0:21:430:21:45

£1.5 million for incorrectly billing

0:21:450:21:48

tens of thousands of consumers for services they had not received.

0:21:480:21:53

With a track record like this, I'm even more worried about Alan's case.

0:21:540:21:58

It's been over a week since I put my questions to TalkTalk.

0:22:040:22:08

One of my queries is why they didn't stop the suspected fraudulent calls

0:22:080:22:11

from being made as soon as Alan reported them.

0:22:110:22:15

Oh, hi, is that Mark?

0:22:150:22:16

And finally, it seems Mark from the CEO's office has got some answers for me.

0:22:160:22:21

We can't apply a bar to stop a customer calling a specific country

0:22:220:22:28

or indeed a specific number.

0:22:280:22:31

If somebody phones you up with a suspected fraud on their line,

0:22:310:22:34

and Alan Polden is adamant that this is fraud,

0:22:340:22:37

would you automatically offer somebody the option of having

0:22:370:22:40

that line disconnected and reissuing them with a new number?

0:22:400:22:43

Just so that it would nip the problem in the bud?

0:22:430:22:45

-Is that something you'd automatically do?

-We don't, no.

0:22:450:22:48

Do you not think it would be a good idea to have that as an option

0:22:480:22:51

and see what people would like to do about that?

0:22:510:22:54

Well, I'm certainly happy to say that that is something that

0:22:540:22:58

I will feed back to our billing team.

0:22:580:23:01

It goes back to that same old thing, Mark. About the duty of care.

0:23:010:23:05

Although Mark is willing to consider my point,

0:23:050:23:08

TalkTalk are convinced their engineer's report is correct and this isn't fraud.

0:23:080:23:13

They also say that they have acted in line with the industry guidelines

0:23:130:23:17

so we have arranged an interview with Ofcom, the communications regulator,

0:23:170:23:21

to see if they can shed any light on the situation.

0:23:210:23:24

Now, let's make sure that Alan has done everything the right way.

0:23:240:23:28

If a customer feels they have been charged for calls they haven't made,

0:23:280:23:31

then first of all, they should complain

0:23:310:23:33

to their communications provider.

0:23:330:23:35

Because there are rules which say that providers can only send bills

0:23:350:23:38

for calls that have been made.

0:23:380:23:40

OK. So Alan has done things by the book.

0:23:400:23:44

But whether his bills are accurate

0:23:440:23:46

is questionable, because as we know,

0:23:460:23:48

TalkTalk have been fined by Ofcom for incorrectly billing their customers.

0:23:480:23:52

I mean, just how safe are these phone systems?

0:23:520:23:55

The networks generally are secure

0:23:550:23:57

and there are rules that providers have to take reasonable steps

0:23:570:24:01

to make sure that their networks are secure and resilient.

0:24:010:24:04

Clearly it is in their own interest to make sure that their networks are secure.

0:24:040:24:08

It might be in their interest to maintain a safe system,

0:24:080:24:11

but on the other hand, I can't see providers wanting to tell

0:24:110:24:14

customers their phone lines can be hacked or intercepted, either.

0:24:140:24:18

People would be worried out of their mind.

0:24:180:24:21

We have had complaints in the past, but only very few and of those,

0:24:210:24:25

only one has ever really been substantiated.

0:24:250:24:28

So it is not an area that we are aware of as a particular problem.

0:24:280:24:32

OK. So it might be a small problem.

0:24:320:24:34

But if, like Alan, you are convinced there has been fraud on your line,

0:24:340:24:37

it doesn't mean telecoms providers or the industry regulators

0:24:370:24:41

should ignore the complaints.

0:24:410:24:43

Ofcom and Otelo say it is out of their remit to investigate fraud,

0:24:430:24:47

but I think it would help if they would at least acknowledge the possibility of fraud

0:24:470:24:52

to encourage providers to do more checks.

0:24:520:24:54

Now TalkTalk are telling me

0:24:550:24:57

that they got BT Openreach to check the line and make sure that no-one had tampered with it.

0:24:570:25:02

I'd like to think that BT and TalkTalk have done this properly.

0:25:020:25:05

I mean, after all, surely all their little boxes are nice and safe and locked up?

0:25:050:25:10

A bit like this one.

0:25:100:25:11

Just walking down the street, I've seen evidence that checking

0:25:130:25:17

a line might not be as straightforward as TalkTalk led Alan to believe.

0:25:170:25:21

Let's face it, I'm not an expert, so I need to speak to someone who is.

0:25:210:25:25

Terry Lockwood is a consultant whose job it is to help businesses

0:25:250:25:30

with problems in the telecoms field.

0:25:300:25:32

How reliable can TalkTalk's investigation really be?

0:25:320:25:36

There are many, many access points between the point at which

0:25:380:25:42

a consumer or a company

0:25:420:25:43

makes a call, and the ultimate destination.

0:25:430:25:48

So when we are looking at the potential for access,

0:25:480:25:53

there are so many points where a line can be broken into

0:25:530:25:57

or a circuit can be accessed.

0:25:570:25:59

If we are looking to an engineer to tell us

0:25:590:26:02

whether something has happened in the past,

0:26:020:26:05

extremely difficult to do that,

0:26:050:26:08

because somebody could potentially break a circuit

0:26:080:26:14

and then when he has finished that operation, he simply packs

0:26:140:26:16

everything up, reconnects the line as it was, and no-one could ever tell.

0:26:160:26:22

It seems hacking or interception are definite possibilities

0:26:230:26:27

but not the only thing that suggests something dodgy might have happened to Alan's phone line.

0:26:270:26:32

When we are looking at fraud

0:26:340:26:36

and we're looking at the bill for a particular account,

0:26:360:26:40

we may see particular blocks of activity.

0:26:400:26:44

Repeated calls to the same overseas numbers, for instance.

0:26:440:26:49

Repeated calls to a specific type of number.

0:26:490:26:53

These are the kind of things which indicate,

0:26:530:26:56

especially, of course, as in this case,

0:26:560:26:59

where there is no previous history of these destinations being called.

0:26:590:27:04

We would always look at that and think there was something unusual going on.

0:27:040:27:08

OK. But it surprises me that if fraud is possible,

0:27:080:27:12

TalkTalk haven't done a more detailed investigation.

0:27:120:27:16

The reason that telephone companies would be reluctant to admit

0:27:160:27:21

telecom fraud is because we are all interested in retaining the credibility of our industry.

0:27:210:27:27

TalkTalk might not want to admit their network may be insecure

0:27:270:27:32

which isn't very fair to the consumer.

0:27:320:27:34

So I'm really interested in what the legal line might be on this,

0:27:340:27:37

as, in my book, Alan should be innocent until proven guilty.

0:27:370:27:41

When it comes to the legal standpoint it's very, very difficult

0:27:430:27:47

to actually say who is right and who is wrong.

0:27:470:27:51

Um... There are people who will make calls

0:27:510:27:55

and who will try to avoid paying for them.

0:27:550:27:58

There are carriers who will make errors

0:27:580:28:04

and try and apply those errors to billing in the normal way

0:28:040:28:07

or try to deny that the errors have been made.

0:28:070:28:12

So when it comes down to legal right and wrong,

0:28:120:28:16

it will always depend on what happens on the day in court,

0:28:160:28:20

if it ever comes to court.

0:28:200:28:22

Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

0:28:230:28:25

And, as I suspected, Terry confirms there are a multitude of different ways

0:28:250:28:29

Alan's phone line could have been hacked or intercepted

0:28:290:28:32

and it's unlikely TalkTalk will admit to weaknesses in their system.

0:28:320:28:36

TalkTalk's report might be inconclusive,

0:28:370:28:40

but I want to see with my own eyes how thorough they have been

0:28:400:28:43

and that is what I'm about to tell them.

0:28:430:28:46

Something I wanted to double check with you.

0:28:480:28:50

When you said that your industry got BT Openreach to check these lines,

0:28:500:28:55

they only go as far as the exchange boxes, am I correct in saying that?

0:28:550:29:00

'I am told TalkTalk only request a check from the premises

0:29:000:29:03

'to the telephone exchange.

0:29:030:29:04

'And they still can't produce the report,

0:29:040:29:07

'so I don't even know how detailed the check was.'

0:29:070:29:10

You see, there are certainly a lot of unanswered questions here.

0:29:100:29:13

The main one for Alan as far as he is concerned is

0:29:130:29:15

who has made these calls and why is he getting the blame, when it wasn't him?

0:29:150:29:18

As it stands at the moment, I might be stating the obvious here,

0:29:180:29:22

but let me just put it plainly, are you going to cancel his bill,

0:29:220:29:26

-as far as he's concerned?

-No.

-No.

0:29:260:29:28

I am disappointed they won't budge.

0:29:280:29:31

But I still think their duty of care has been lacking. As we discovered earlier from our telecoms expert,

0:29:310:29:36

TalkTalk can't rely on their engineer's report as proof that fraud hasn't happened.

0:29:360:29:42

Plus, Alan had no outgoing service for eight months

0:29:420:29:46

that he is still being billed for.

0:29:460:29:48

And other problems when he first joined.

0:29:480:29:50

What I would say is, don't forget that you did accuse this guy

0:29:500:29:53

of not paying his bills on time.

0:29:530:29:55

He had his phone line disconnected and he did pay them,

0:29:550:29:58

so TalkTalk have let him down on that side of things, haven't they?

0:29:580:30:01

They recognise they could have acted in a better way at times

0:30:010:30:05

and I get an apology.

0:30:050:30:06

But it's Alan they should be apologising to.

0:30:060:30:09

Bye-bye.

0:30:090:30:11

Well, TalkTalk have said no no.

0:30:120:30:16

But I did say at that point, what about just giving him half the money back?

0:30:160:30:19

Because, after all, you did disconnect him when you shouldn't have done

0:30:190:30:22

and he has paid his bills on time, so there was an error on your behalf.

0:30:220:30:26

And he said, OK, we will chew it over.

0:30:260:30:29

I haven't got a clue. It's a flip of a coin.

0:30:300:30:33

Wouldn't we all like to know what goes on inside the mind of dodgy traders?

0:30:380:30:43

You know, get a little insight into how they all work?

0:30:430:30:47

Well, step forward today's whistleblower.

0:30:470:30:50

Watch this, because it's going to be very interesting.

0:30:500:30:53

Today, we are looking at what can go wrong

0:30:580:31:01

when you get a tradesperson in to protect your home from damp.

0:31:010:31:04

To prevent moisture from rotting your walls,

0:31:040:31:07

you get a specialist in to protect your interior spaces.

0:31:070:31:11

But unfortunately, some of these contractors are more likely to make your stress levels rise,

0:31:110:31:15

than sort out your rising damp.

0:31:150:31:17

And they will take your money in the meantime.

0:31:170:31:20

My insider has worked in the damp proofing industry for 26 years.

0:31:260:31:31

And he has seen shocking evidence of consumers being taken

0:31:310:31:34

for a ride by dodgy workers set to make a mess of your mould.

0:31:340:31:37

We have protected his identity to provide a safe environment for his expose.

0:31:390:31:44

DISTORTED VOICE: This is an industry that is very close to my heart,

0:31:460:31:49

something that has supported me for all my working life

0:31:490:31:52

and it makes me very cross to think that there are people

0:31:520:31:55

operating without scruples, ripping off members of the public.

0:31:550:31:59

And my insider knows immediately how to tell the good from the ugly.

0:31:590:32:04

A good damp proofing contractor should come out and look at the property

0:32:040:32:08

and do a thorough investigation and inspection.

0:32:080:32:10

That should lead to the generation of a report that makes sense,

0:32:100:32:15

that's clear, that's concise.

0:32:150:32:17

And, of course, the last element is that he should also send out

0:32:170:32:21

people to do the work that are skilled and know what they are doing

0:32:210:32:24

and have the equipment to do the job correctly.

0:32:240:32:26

All too often, there are people out there that fail on one or all of those counts.

0:32:260:32:32

And bad practice starts right on your front porch.

0:32:320:32:37

One thing that people should be aware of is anybody who knocks on the door,

0:32:370:32:41

reporting to be doing surveys in the area, or drops leaflets through the door,

0:32:410:32:46

saying that they are doing free damp surveys -

0:32:460:32:48

they generally have no great concern for actually finding problems.

0:32:480:32:52

What they are looking for is work.

0:32:520:32:54

Anybody that approaches you in that sort of direct and aggressive way

0:32:540:32:59

has probably not got the consumer's best interest at heart.

0:32:590:33:02

They may use unskilled labour.

0:33:020:33:04

That means the guys on site don't know really what they are doing.

0:33:040:33:07

So the job doesn't get done well.

0:33:070:33:09

He has come across some pretty horrific cases in his time.

0:33:090:33:13

One recently was a lady who had fallen victim to a doorstep seller.

0:33:150:33:21

She had spent £3,500 of her hard-earned money

0:33:210:33:24

and her savings on a series of holes around the bottom of the house.

0:33:240:33:28

There is no evidence to suggest she had a problem.

0:33:280:33:31

There was no evidence to suggest anything had been even put into the walls.

0:33:310:33:35

They did all the work from the outside and were in and out of the house in less than two hours.

0:33:350:33:39

The other thing that can happen is that good materials cost money.

0:33:390:33:44

So it is tempting for some to cut their costs by using inferior materials.

0:33:440:33:49

That can lead to additional moisture transfers, salt damage, and damp problems coming back.

0:33:490:33:54

You also get people that use electronic moisture meters incorrectly

0:33:540:33:58

and try and show clients that they have damp problems which really don't exist.

0:33:580:34:04

In fact, they trick the meters, or use them in a gas in an unscrupulous way

0:34:040:34:07

to try and show that there is a problem when there isn't.

0:34:070:34:10

The biggest profile case was a chap that had been operating a company up in the north-west of England.

0:34:130:34:19

The investigation and the subsequent court case found that he had taken

0:34:190:34:24

over £3 million from homeowners

0:34:240:34:27

and hard-working individuals for work that was either completely unnecessary

0:34:270:34:31

or was done to an extremely poor standard.

0:34:310:34:34

So here's my insider's tips to prevent being

0:34:340:34:37

deceived by your damp proof contractor.

0:34:370:34:40

Research their details thoroughly.

0:34:410:34:45

First of all, has this company got any sort of trading record?

0:34:450:34:49

Do they have a landline? Do they have a trading address? Get a reference.

0:34:490:34:53

Ask him where he has been and ask to speak to some of his previous clients

0:34:530:34:56

and learn from their experiences.

0:34:560:34:58

They should be a member of the PCA, the Property Care Association.

0:34:580:35:04

That's an organisation that writes the standard for the industry.

0:35:040:35:07

Be happy that what you are paying is the right amount.

0:35:070:35:11

Simply getting a number of quotations,

0:35:110:35:13

a number of different prices and opinions on the job

0:35:130:35:16

certainly will improve your chances of getting good work at good rates.

0:35:160:35:21

Educate yourself a bit on the topic.

0:35:210:35:23

Understand what you are buying.

0:35:250:35:27

It's very important that the contractor that's doing the work

0:35:270:35:30

or that you choose can explain to you exactly what they are doing

0:35:300:35:33

and why they are doing it.

0:35:330:35:34

It's straightforward stuff.

0:35:340:35:36

If you don't understand it, they probably won't.

0:35:360:35:39

And good contractors will have the time and the patience

0:35:390:35:42

and the skill to be able to make you understand what they are doing and why they are doing it.

0:35:420:35:47

So there you have it.

0:35:470:35:49

My industry insider's advice to stop your damp problem being

0:35:490:35:52

rotten in more ways than one.

0:35:520:35:55

This expert knowledge should mean next time, you don't get done.

0:35:550:35:58

For weeks, I have been investigating the case of Alan Polden,

0:36:040:36:08

a TalkTalk customer who has dozens of international calls on his landline bill

0:36:080:36:12

which he is 100% sure he hasn't made.

0:36:120:36:16

TalkTalk have checked the phone line and say there was no evidence of fraud.

0:36:160:36:20

But my telecoms expert explained

0:36:200:36:23

that although the provider might not want to admit it, it is definitely possible

0:36:230:36:26

that Alan's phone line may have been compromised.

0:36:260:36:29

There have been cases I know where

0:36:290:36:31

local BT junction boxes have been broken into.

0:36:310:36:36

As it stands, Alan has to pay £614.34

0:36:360:36:40

and a large chunk of that bill is for a call package

0:36:400:36:45

when Alan didn't even have an outgoing service.

0:36:450:36:48

Last time I spoke to TalkTalk, I expressed my concern

0:36:480:36:51

and suggested compensation might be due.

0:36:510:36:53

And I'm about to find out the response from Mark in the CEO's office.

0:36:530:36:57

Right, Mark. You know the reason I was calling, just to see if there was any news...

0:36:570:37:01

'Mark tells me that within Alan's bills are undisputed calls that Alan has made.

0:37:010:37:07

'And if he pays for them, they will offer a goodwill gesture.'

0:37:070:37:11

Isn't that saying if he pays you the bill, the outstanding bill,

0:37:110:37:15

for all the calls he is not disputing,

0:37:150:37:17

you are going to wipe the ones that he is disputing?

0:37:170:37:20

Is that the same thing you are saying?

0:37:200:37:23

'It's looking like I might be onto a winner here.

0:37:230:37:25

'But the line rental charges on Alan's bill

0:37:250:37:28

'for the eight months he couldn't dial out are still up for grabs.

0:37:280:37:31

'One battle at a time, I think.'

0:37:310:37:34

I'm fairly certain I can get Alan to pay the undisputed amounts without any problems,

0:37:340:37:39

on the understanding that you are prepared to offer,

0:37:390:37:42

as a gesture of goodwill, that the disputed amounts be wiped.

0:37:420:37:45

Now, what will Alan think when I deliver the news I have got for him at this stage of the dispute?

0:37:450:37:51

Right, I'm back in Bristol to meet Alan.

0:37:540:37:56

I've got some news for him, but unfortunately, it is not as good as I'd like it to be.

0:37:560:38:00

Alan, good to see you again. How are you doing, you all right?

0:38:000:38:03

-OK.

-OK, TalkTalk.

0:38:030:38:05

This is what I've managed to negotiate for you.

0:38:050:38:08

At the moment, your bill stands at £614.34 and a large chunk of that

0:38:080:38:12

-are these disputed calls to Jamaica and mobile numbers.

-Yes.

0:38:120:38:16

How would you feel now, if I said to you that I've got TalkTalk

0:38:160:38:19

to agree to scrub the bills that are disputed?

0:38:190:38:24

Would you be happy?

0:38:240:38:26

Yes, apart from the bill where I have been charged for eight months when I didn't get a phone service.

0:38:260:38:33

-OK.

-I'm glad that you have got so far,

0:38:330:38:38

when nobody has got anywhere with them at all.

0:38:380:38:40

I'm quite impressed with that.

0:38:400:38:42

But in the end, it is TalkTalk, after over two years,

0:38:420:38:45

they have moved a tiny bit.

0:38:450:38:47

And they are still insisting on trying to charge for eight months

0:38:470:38:51

when I could only get incoming calls.

0:38:510:38:53

They really haven't moved enough.

0:38:530:38:56

Um... So I can't come to a snap judgement.

0:38:560:38:59

I will have to go away and take advice on

0:38:590:39:01

whether to go to court or whether to pay the undisputed amount.

0:39:010:39:06

-I am still battling with them.

-Sure.

-It's not over yet.

-Sure.

0:39:060:39:10

If I can get that eight months wiped, would you be happy?

0:39:100:39:14

-Yes, I think so.

-You would put it to bed?

-Yes.

-OK. I'll have another go.

0:39:140:39:19

I needed to hear that from you, so I knew where I stood.

0:39:190:39:21

I will try again and make some more phone calls

0:39:210:39:23

and I will have a last-ditch attempt.

0:39:230:39:25

And I'll let you know how I get on with that.

0:39:250:39:27

-Thank you.

-If I fail, the ball is in your court.

-Yes.

0:39:270:39:30

-So you have got some movement, but not quite enough.

-Yes. Thank you.

0:39:300:39:34

Keep smiling, because it's not over yet, Alan.

0:39:340:39:37

Alan is not backing down on this one,

0:39:380:39:40

and is even willing to take this to court if he has to.

0:39:400:39:43

But he shouldn't have to as I think it boils down to the fact

0:39:430:39:47

that TalkTalk should have stopped this fiasco back in August 2009 before it escalated.

0:39:470:39:52

It's time for one last call to TalkTalk.

0:39:520:39:56

I told him the news about these disputed bills,

0:39:560:39:58

he is over the moon with that and he hasn't got a question in the world about paying bills

0:39:580:40:02

which he thinks he is responsible for.

0:40:020:40:04

But, and this is the big but, while this dispute was going on,

0:40:040:40:08

for eight months, he didn't get his broadband

0:40:080:40:11

and he wasn't able to make any outgoing calls.

0:40:110:40:14

He had a landline which would only receive incoming calls.

0:40:140:40:18

But I can totally understand why he doesn't feel

0:40:180:40:20

he should be paying for this, the landline charges.

0:40:200:40:22

It was £23 a month for eight months, according to him.

0:40:220:40:25

So, for the last time, Mark Schmid goes away to ponder over our final proposal.

0:40:250:40:31

And I wait on tenterhooks, in the hope that I will get good news for Alan.

0:40:310:40:36

Finally, four days later, the news arrives.

0:40:390:40:42

Been going on for three years, it's about time we put this case to bed.

0:40:420:40:46

-Alan, hello again. How are you, buddy, all right?

-Yes, thank you. Cheers, yeah.

0:40:510:40:56

'It's the moment of truth in this long-running battle.'

0:40:560:40:59

-I negotiate more and more on your behalf. Now listen. This is the outcome.

-Sure.

0:40:590:41:03

TalkTalk have said that they are not going to charge you

0:41:030:41:06

for the disputed calls. You know about that from our last visit.

0:41:060:41:09

-They are also not going to charge you for those months line rental.

-Right.

-That means

0:41:090:41:12

the only bill that is left is the undisputed amount, the calls that you have made.

0:41:120:41:16

They have dropped the bill down now, just that amount. £158.36.

0:41:160:41:22

I'm impressed. Nobody has got anywhere - police, MP, everywhere.

0:41:220:41:27

Nobody has got them to move at all.

0:41:270:41:30

So there is a slight chance now that after three years and a month,

0:41:300:41:34

-this might be coming to a conclusion?

-Yes.

-Really?

0:41:340:41:37

Possibly. If they send me a revised bill directly to me from them,

0:41:370:41:42

I will consider it, after taking advice.

0:41:420:41:45

Well, I'll be very interested in what does happen. I will send the bill on to you.

0:41:450:41:49

-Good luck with your battle, or your acceptance, whichever you choose.

-Cheers. Thanks.

0:41:490:41:53

-Cheers, Alan.

-OK.

0:41:530:41:55

We asked TalkTalk for a statement on Alan's case.

0:41:550:41:57

They told us:

0:41:570:42:00

Because of the time it has taken to get to this point,

0:42:120:42:15

Alan holds a lot of resentment against TalkTalk.

0:42:150:42:18

And even though they have now offered a result that I think is acceptable,

0:42:180:42:21

Alan wants to see it in black and white to believe it.

0:42:210:42:24

Well, since my final meeting with Alan, TalkTalk have put their offer in writing to him.

0:42:260:42:30

In the letter, they restate they are dropping all the disputed charges on his bill,

0:42:300:42:36

but say:

0:42:360:42:39

But Alan, against my advice, has decided not to accept this offer,

0:42:490:42:53

and to carry on battling.

0:42:530:42:54

I am very impressed that Dom has managed to get anywhere with TalkTalk.

0:42:540:42:58

They could have come to this agreement two and a half years ago.

0:43:000:43:03

They have done everything to obstruct.

0:43:040:43:07

I partly admire Alan, but sometimes you have to ask yourself,

0:43:070:43:11

is the stress worth the reward?

0:43:110:43:13

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