PPI Claims Don't Get Done Get Dom

I've been fighting your consumer battles for years now,

but the same old problems just keep flooding in.

And it's all the usual suspects - poor customer service, faulty goods

and hidden small print.

No wonder some of you are fed up with the way you're being treated.

The most frustrating thing about being a customer in the UK

is the lack of customer service.

Do you know what really grinds my gears?

When I place an order and the company get it wrong

and I have to call them back

and I have to tell them they've got it wrong.

It's just...

I couldn't agree more. Things need to change

and we're on a mission to get companies to treat us better.

I'll be taking on your cases

and fighting your fight with the big companies.

Once he realises exactly what I'm fighting here,

I'll be very surprised if he wants to argue with me.

And I'll be showing you how to shop smart and stay one step ahead.

There have been cases where those people have been very naughty

and said, "We never received it."

So, remember...

-Don't Get Done...

-Get Dom.

Coming up on today's show -

one woman's battle against a claims management company

who want their cut of a payment protection insurance refund.

At what point did you realise how serious this was getting?

When we received a debt recovery letter.

We've got some inside knowledge for you on dodgy damp-proof specialists...

It's not usually a surveyor that comes round,

it's a salesman with a moisture meter

trying to convince you that you've got a damp problem,

even though you probably weren't aware of it

before you took the cold call.

..and Rani Price hits the streets

to find out if you, the Great British public,

are in the wrong about your consumer rights.

Who's in the right - you or them?

Well, I would hope it would be me, but it very rarely goes that way.

Wouldn't we all love it if we suddenly found out

that we were owed some money?

Well, that's exactly what's been happening to the thousands of people

who were mis-sold payment protection insurance, or PPI,

over the last couple of years.

But it seems claiming back mis-sold PPI

isn't as straightforward as it could be.

Just ask Shirley Sproule,

whose attempts to claim back PPI have caused her no end of hassle.

It began in November 2011,

when she employed the services

of claims management specialists Elsworth Associates

to help her reclaim mis-sold PPI on several loans from Lloyds TSB.

I was just sat at home just watching the TV

and the telephone rang

and it was a guy offering PPI claims, and did I know about it?

I said yes.

Payment protection insurance, or PPI,

is sold by lenders alongside credit cards and loans

to cover repayments should a borrower be unable to work

due to sickness or redundancy.

Many policies were mis-sold because customers didn't need it,

or were not aware it had been included

in their loan repayments at all.

Shirley had taken out several loans with her bank, Lloyds TSB,

and Elsworth Associates told her they could help claim a refund.

He said, "You've nothing to worry about."

He said it wouldn't affect my credit rating or anything.

And I said, "OK, right, I'll go for it, then."

And he said that he would arrange for someone to come and speak to us,

so that's what happened.

The Elsworth representative came to Shirley's home

to formalise the agreement,

and she signed a contract

agreeing to pay the company 25% of any mis-sold PPI

they helped her win from Lloyds TSB.

Elsworth then wrote to Lloyds

informing them they were taking on the claim.

We hadn't heard from Elsworth for nearly two months

and we thought, "We're not going to get anything."

And then a few days later we got the letter from Lloyds TSB.

The letter was an offer for £984.98

as a PPI refund for two loans held with the bank.

We sent the cheque off to Elsworth for their 25% fee

and we thought, well, that was fair enough,

that wasn't too big an amount to pay somebody.

I sent a thank-you letter on March 1st,

thanking them for their service

and saying that I would recommend them to friends.

I sent that letter off

and thought that would be the last I would hear from Elsworth.

The thank-you letter also terminated the contract with Elsworth.

But two months later,

Shirley and her husband came across more eligible loans with Lloyds TSB,

so started the claims process again

and their hard work paid off big time.

We eventually got £13,088.90, which we were over the moon with,

because that's a lot of money to us.

But their joy wasn't to last.

Just a week after receiving the letter from Lloyds,

the Sproules received an invoice from Elsworth

for 25% of this new figure, to the sum of £3,926.68.

How did Elsworth know about this if Shirley had made the claim herself?

Well, it appears the bank

had kept the claims management company in the loop.

When we received the letter from Elsworth we were both angry

and we phoned them up and said, "No, you're not entitled to this money.

"You didn't do anything for it."

So Shirley and husband Martin are left with the bill

of nearly £4,000 from Elsworth,

and both parties think the money is rightfully theirs.

I'm about to meet up with Shirley,

who's come all the way down from bonnie Scotland

to tell me about her woes.

I'm quite looking forward to this, because I love a Scottish accent.

'Now, with the PPI scandal,

'claims management companies have been in the spotlight

'and I'm interested initially in Shirley's first impressions

'of Elsworth Associates.'

So, let's talk about Elsworth.

As far as you were concerned, how happy were you with their service?

To begin with, I was really happy with their service.

We managed to get just under £1,000 back,

that wasn't as much as what I was expecting,

but it was £1,000 that I didn't have before

so I was fairly happy.

So what happened after then?

Because it said in the letter

that that was the final response from Lloyds TSB, I thought,

"Well, that's it, that's what we're going to get."

So, because I had read through the terms and conditions of Elsworth,

I was free to terminate the contract,

which, after I had paid Elsworth their 25%,

that's what I did.

You sent the letter in?

-I sent the letter in.

-Was it an email?

-No, it was a written letter.

-Did you record-delivery that letter?

-No, I didnae.

-Give me your hand, give me your hand.

-You're a naughty girl, aren't you?

-I know!

-Naughty girl!

You've got to record-delivery anything that's official like that,

or have some sort of paper trace of it.

An email's great because you can trace it back through your sent box

and they can obviously find it in their inbox.

But the old postal service, although it probably was delivered,

-you have no proof of that.

-No.

-Right, mistake number one.

But at least she did take a photocopy of the letter.

Now, I need to find out every last detail of what has gone on,

starting with these other loans Elsworth seem to have missed.

Shirley found out about these

from bank staff at her local Lloyds branch when she popped in.

He said, "Had you heard of PPI?"

And I said, "Of course I've heard of PPI, I've claimed."

He says, "What did you claim on?"

I said, "Well, a company got us a claim back on two loans."

And he says, "Oh, no, you've got far more than two loans."

I says, "Oh, right."

So he very generously gave me a list of loans and credit cards,

gave me the phone number that I was to phone Lloyds TSB on.

And it was after being given this list

that the couple went ahead

and made a claim for the rest of the mis-sold PPI

directly with Lloyds TSB.

And although they didn't seem to have any involvement

in these additional claims,

Elsworth still believe they are entitled to their 25% fee.

So how much are they trying to claim back from you now?

-It's roughly about £4,000.

-Wow.

I mean, big wow.

'But it gets worse.'

At what point did you realise how serious this was getting?

When we received a debt recovery letter. Because that's really scary.

They are.

Not a great fan of them.

'It was nearly two months after terminating the Elsworth contract

'that Shirley discovered other loans.

'But I'm interested in exactly why

'she thinks their invoice for this second claim is unfair.'

How much effort have you put in yourself

trying to get this money back?

We were phoning every week to two weeks

just to keep on top of them,

because they kept saying, no, they weren't going to pay out,

they weren't going to pay out.

Now, that was from April 21st

and we never got the loan offer until July 5th.

So, to me, that was a lot of our time.

Now tell me what you'd like me to do for you.

I'd like you to contact Elsworth and put the case to them,

because I've written numerous letters to them,

they answer them, but they don't answer every question

that I've put in the letter.

So we just thought that if anybody can get to them, you can.

There's three people here - you, Elsworth and Lloyds.

And I just need to get to the bottom of it

and tidy it all up and see what we get.

-Yep, no problem.

-Lovely.

I'll be catching up with you soon.

Shirley has definitely got a bit of a sticky situation on her hands,

that's for certain.

It's also her first time ever in London,

so let's hope this visit is a very memorable one,

but for the right reasons.

Getting to the bottom of this case

is going to mean speaking to not one, but two companies.

First is Elsworth Associates, they're based in Blackburn

and regulated by the Ministry of Justice

to provide services and claims management.

They say they run an efficient and quality service to their clients

on a "no win, no fee" basis

and promise to keep in touch throughout the claims process.

Then there's banking giant Lloyds TSB,

part of the Lloyds Banking Group,

which is 43% government-owned.

According to consumer group Which?,

they had more PPI complaints than any other bank.

And having done my background research on the companies,

one of the main questions is

whether or not the original claim was closed.

Elsworth say it wasn't, but Shirley thought it was

and she says Lloyds confirmed this to her.

Time for my first call.

The thing is about Shirley's claim here is, who do I go to first?

Elsworth or Lloyds? It's a flip of a coin, so I'll go with Lloyds.

'I get through to the PPI Reclaims Helpline

'and I'm told to send a letter of authority

'in order for me to act on behalf of the Sproules.

'That's standard procedure.

'In addition, Shirley's convinced

'Lloyds will have recordings of phone calls she made to them

'to open a new PPI refund claim

'unconnected to the claim started by Elsworth.

'I'm hoping Lloyds can provide these recordings.'

I'll get the letter of authority over to you

and then I shall give you a call back.

Thanks very much. Bye-bye.

'Next up, Elsworth Associates.'

'I get through to the General Manager,

'who doesn't want her voice used.

'I explain that Shirley Sproule was initially happy

'with the service Elsworth provided.'

She wrote you a letter congratulating your service

on March 1st, 2012.

In that letter, she also asked you

to cancel her contract with yourselves.

I'm really hoping they have evidence of this,

but I'm told they don't have the specifics to hand just yet.

She also mentions that they operate a catch-all policy,

so they don't miss any loans.

When you put a claim in with one particular lender -

let's say, hypothetically, Lloyds - on behalf of a customer,

how long will it be before they give you all the relevant information

about various different loans? I'm not asking for an exact date,

just the approximate amount of time it would take.

'I'm informed that lenders should normally respond within five days,

'but that sometimes things take longer

'and something definitely went wrong in this case,

'because it was over half a year

'before the other loans came to light.'

After she disengaged your services

and confirmed with Lloyds that you were no longer involved,

she put a claim in in May this year.

You're talking about seven months later.

Obviously until Lloyds had told you about this claim,

I can probably safely assume you didn't know about it.

You probably didn't have any involvement in it,

so we are talking about a subsequent claim seven months later.

Shirley and her husband are adamant they did all the legwork

and Elsworth say if that was the case

they wouldn't expect the money.

But if the company were directly involved

they would expect to be paid their fee, which is fair enough.

I can't wait to see what both companies come back with,

but I've got a funny feeling this case is far from clear cut.

It would seem pretty obvious that it's...

it's almost certainly something that you're not entitled to.

I'm Rani Price and there's nothing I like better

than helping you, the buying public,

through the minefield of regulations to make sure you stay savvy shoppers.

'Now, consumer law can be very confusing.

'You've got your Sale Of Goods Act, Distance Selling, Right To Return,

'and it doesn't stop there, but knowing just a few of these laws

'can save you not only money, but a lot of hassle as well.'

Would you mind chatting to us for a couple of minutes?

'Today, I'm out on the streets, armed with questions to put to you,

'the buying public, to find out if you know

'your consumer rights from your consumer wrongs.'

When we think of utilities, we think of the main three -

gas, electricity and water - but what about the internet?

After all, we rely on it more and more,

so do you know your rights when it comes to your internet connection?

Internet service providers often try to attract

customers by advertising certain speeds

and we all want the fastest connection for the best price,

but what if your surfing isn't as swift as you'd hoped?

Say, for example, you went to your internet provider and said,

"I want you to guarantee that I'll get 8Mb per second,"

and they said, "Actually, we're not going to guarantee it,

"we'll say up to 8Mb," would you take on the deal?

Yes, I did, unfortunately.

THEY LAUGH

Did they say "up to" or did they guarantee it?

No, no, they didn't guarantee it at all.

Let's say you want 9Mb and they say,

"Well, it's up to 9Mb, we can't guarantee it," what do you do?

Er, to be honest, I would probably look somewhere else,

but I've been checking companies in the beginning

and this company that I have right now,

they did guarantee between 9 and 16.

So that's what it is -

they can guarantee between a certain amount,

but they can't guarantee you will definitely have 9Mb every day

or you will definitely have 16Mb every day.

'So it seems we're all looking for a guarantee,

'but let's see what our Trading Standards expert has to say

'about guaranteed connection speeds.'

Everybody should expect the speed that's advertised,

BUT you need to look at what really is being advertised.

When they say, for example, 8Mb or whatever,

they're saying "up to" and the "up to" is the key information.

How many people in your house are using the internet at the same time,

how far your house is from the main point of

broadband connection for that service provider,

how many people are sharing that line, for example?

These things will really affect the speed of the broadband.

But what if your connection was consistently lower than

the advertised megabyte speed? Can you escape your contract?

Let's say, for example, you went for the 8Mb

and after a while of using it, you realised it was just slow,

in fact you were more likely getting 5Mb per second, OK?

So now you're annoyed and you phone up the company and go,

-"I'm not happy!"

-I'd go for another company.

Well, you're still in your contract.

-I'm in that position right now.

-Oh!

Yeah, I won't mention the company,

but I did buy and they did say 8Mb and it's very, very slow

and the TV package that I have is very bad,

so I want to go back to them and change it,

but I know in the contract it says that

I cannot get out of it until my contract is up.

You complain and you say, "I'm sorry, it's not fast enough.

"Can I change contracts, cos it's not really working out?

"Either bring the price down or go to 8Mb,"

and they say to you, "No, you can't

"because you signed a contract for a year." Can they do that?

-Er, small print, they can, I guess.

-But who's in the right - you or them?

I would hope it would be me, but it very rarely goes that way.

'So none of these guys think they could get out of a contract

'if their internet connection was constantly slower than promised,

'but are they right?'

If you agreed on 8Mb, then you can actually get out of your contract

and they need to provide you with a different contract,

so you could maybe say, "Well, I'll do 5Mb per second,

-"but I'll be paying at a cheaper rate."

-OK.

So you can change your contract.

Ofcom now says, you know, that's what you should be allowed to do

because you're not getting what you signed up for.

'Great. So new regulations mean consumers do have a leg to stand on

'if constantly let down, but where do we stand with downloading?'

Your internet has slowed down.

You call the internet company

and they say, "Actually, we slowed it down

"because you have gone over your download limit."

Can they do this?

I really don't know.

If they're saying you can only have so much a month,

then perhaps they're right, but I don't know.

They shouldn't be able to.

They're giving you a little, you know, tap on the back of your hand.

I think they should have told me up front.

Do you think they can penalise you

by making your internet connection slower?

They can stop your internet

until you've got a new limit for a new month, or I don't know...

I'm not quite sure, to be honest.

'You can be penalised in various ways

'for exceeding what you've agreed to, but to what extent?'

If you go over your download limit, your internet service provider

cannot charge you a random penalty amount.

What they can do is charge you a reasonable amount

that reflects the cost of this extra service they have provided you.

So the next time you choose your internet package,

you know where you stand.

I'm on the case to help Shirley Sproule from Dumfries

who, in November 2011

asked claims management company, Elsworth Associates,

to help her reclaim mis-sold PPI on several loans with Lloyds TSB.

After receiving some money back from Lloyds on two of the loans,

she paid Elsworth their 25% fee

and says she wrote them a letter to cancel the contract,

but then Lloyds TSB told her she had more loans with them

and Shirley and her husband then fought for four months

to finally claim a refund on more PPI to the value of £13,088.

But Elsworth want a cut of the money.

There was quite a number of letters went back and fore with me

trying to explain to them that I'd cancelled the agreement,

it was a separate claim.

'I've decided a good place to start would be to find out

'what both Elsworth and Lloyds have to say.

'I've already put calls into both companies to get the ball rolling.

'I've also requested recordings of phone calls between Lloyds TSB

'and Shirley because she says she was told by them

'the original claim was closed, hence opening up a new one.

'So it's time to call Lloyds again to follow up.'

Is it possible to actually speak to the line manager?

Thank you.

'After being put on hold for nine minutes,

'I finally get through to the line manager within PPI reclaims.'

There was three conversations made and I have the dates and times,

so if I could give you those, if I could request a recording,

I'd appreciate it.

I've already sent you the letter of authority.

I've been unable to get what I would class as

a decent conversation with Lloyds' PPI helpline.

However, they've told me to call their press department.

Perhaps they'll be able to help.

I'll get that to you this afternoon, shall I?

And you. Bye-bye.

The world of PPI claims has been a pretty hot topic

over the past couple of years with scores of companies emerging

to try and help us claim our money back.

Of course, the benefit of choosing one of these firms is that,

in theory, you don't need to lift a finger

and one day a cheque will come through the post

with your PPI refund,

but what do we consumers need to know about signing up

with a PPI claim firm?

Well, one organisation who can tell us is the Ministry Of Justice,

as PPI claims firms are regulated by them.

When a consumer is contracting with a claims management company

to bring a claim against a bank,

it's important the consumers read the detail of what service

they'll be providing and when the fee for that service is due,

because if a consumer decides to stop using

the service of the company before the resolution of the claim,

then that company can still take money off you for the fee

because you've started a process with them,

are contracted with them, so consumers must read

the details of the contract before they sign up for that company.

But Shirley did read the terms and conditions,

which is why she sent a letter to cancel her contract.

If a consumer wants to withdraw

from a contract with a claims management company,

or at the end of a claim to make sure they have

no further fees due, they should write to the company

under recorded delivery to make sure the company knows that fully.

Yep, as I told Shirley, this was her one massive mistake,

but surely Elsworth have obligations too?

After Elsworth received the cut of the first payout to the Sproules,

they sent no indication they were pursuing the case further,

so it's understandable that Shirley thought her cancellation letter

had been received and she continued to make her own claim,

as any of us are perfectly entitled to do.

Consumers who are thinking of making a claim

for mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance

can easily do it themselves if they want to.

Although the length of the claim's process

is in the hands of the banks,

the banks don't respond more quickly to companies,

solicitors than they do consumers.

But banks do have a big responsibility.

Banks, when they receive a claim from a consumer

or a claims management company, are duty-bound to ensure

they investigate what products that consumer was sold at what time.

And Shirley's bank certainly did that.

I need to get to the bottom of the contract

with Elsworth being terminated,

and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they received Shirley's letter.

Time for my next phone call to their general manager,

who chooses not to have her voice used.

RINGING TONE

Oh, hi.

'The first thing I'm told comes as a massive blow.

'They say they found no documentation

'to indicate the Sproules cancelled their contract,

'so Elsworth believes they are still entitled to charge their fee.

'They found out about the subsequent claims

'because Lloyds had kept them informed.'

I've got a copy of the letter she sent you.

Now, obviously I don't have proof that you've received it,

that's something I'm just going to have to take her word on.

'I can understand where Elsworth are coming from,

'but on their company website,

'they promise to keep in regular contact with customers,

'so why didn't that happen if they thought the case was still open?'

When you look at the actual facts, with what she's telling me,

then subsequently this claim you're now putting in

is as a result of what she's discovered seven months later,

it would seem pretty obvious that it's...

it's almost certainly something that you're not entitled to.

'The Elsworth representative disagrees on the grounds that

'Lloyds are the biggest PPI-issuing bank,

'so their systems don't always work and things take time.

'They believe that all the money the Sproules have had back

'from Lloyds was instigated by them.'

I'll tell you what I find interesting there.

Obviously, the original claim you were paid for

and there's no dispute there at all,

that's the £900, that's gone, that's paid.

When you're telling me now that this second claim,

part of that was made by you in November 2011,

I'll be interested if you could prove that to me

and show me the documentation to back that up.

'Elsworth say they also have recordings of calls

'they made to Lloyds TSB, within which the bank confirmed

'categorically it was a claim by Elsworth as opposed to the Sproules.

'They agree to send me through all of this documentation,

'but I can't help thinking that Elsworth have also broken

'their agreement to keep in touch with a client

'throughout their claim.' If it's seven months later,

surely you've already switched off from this one.

You put your original paperwork in in November,

you've had your percentage of commission - fair enough,

you've earned that - and then subsequently,

they have basically cancelled the contracts with yourselves,

put another claim in with Lloyds.

Surely you should have chased this 13 grand right from November's date?

'Again, Elsworth Associates say this is down to how slow

'lenders are in communicating due to a backlog of claims.

'Sadly, it doesn't look like they're budging at all.'

At the moment, things aren't looking good.

She's saying, "No, we think we're entitled to this money

"and we're going to chase her for it."

'Wow! I've got my work cut out on this case!'

Wouldn't life be easier if we had a little insider knowledge,

if we knew exactly how industries operate, so, for once,

we, as consumers, could be ahead of the game?

Well, I'm about to meet somebody who is fed up of keeping quiet

and they're about to let you in on the tricks of the trade.

'All of us take great pride in our bricks and mortar

'and if we suspect there's something wrong with our homes,

'we're often prepared to spend thousands of pounds

'to put the problems right.

'Well, we've found an industry insider who wants to warn you

'about dodgy dealings in the world of damp-proofing.

'To protect him from any backlash, we've concealed his identity.'

Tell us a little bit about yourself. What's your experience?

I've been in the damp-proofing timber-treatment industry

for over 30 years,

erm, mostly working as a surveyor,

but also running a damp-proofing company.

People don't know about it, so is that why it's easy

for companies to take advantage of people?

The damp-proofing industry attracts its share of disreputable companies

and I don't think that's necessarily a problem

that's created by the industry,

it's just that the industry itself is vulnerable to it

because of this mysterious element of what the work is all about

and that attracts companies that want to take advantage of that.

And one common tactic for the smooth operators of the damp-proofing world

is to cold call you with a fake story about new regulations.

"Under new government legislation, you're entitled to a free

"damp survey and we'd like to come and arrange to do that for you."

That's fantastic - so you can get a free damp survey? No.

Well, you do get a free survey,

but it's not usually a surveyor that comes round,

it's a salesman with a moisture meter,

trying to convince you that you've got a damp problem,

even though you probably weren't aware of it

before you took the cold call.

'So it's all just a company ploy to try and get work.'

So this is what you use to check if you have damp - a moisture meter?

For a salesman, it's a very good tool for selling damp-proof courses.

For a surveyor, it's just part of a toolkit that they would use

to build a bigger picture up of a damp problem.

Because, once they light up red,

then they convince people they've got a damp problem.

So if you're holding that against a wall,

there must be some damp if it's firing up to red?

Well, not necessarily,

because although it's called a moisture meter,

that can be quite misleading.

What it's actually measuring is the conductivity

on the surface of the wall.

So, as you put the prongs of the meter against the wall,

if there's a...

if there's conductivity in the wall, for whatever reason,

then you will get a high reading back.

So if I put my finger across the prongs there,

-I can get a high reading.

-Do you have damp?

So it looks like I need a new damp-proof!

SHE LAUGHS

So that's what they're going to be doing, then?

This is a tool, so what you basically do

is you're going around the walls, testing the walls,

to see if you obtain high readings. If you do obtain high readings,

then you should really be pursuing that

and mapping out the wall by taking further readings

and then looking for the cause of it based on the readings

but for someone who's mis-selling a damp-proof course,

the first sign of a high reading is all they're really looking for.

Because then, you know, as long as their customer's seen that,

then you would use that as a selling point.

What should you really be aware of? When should alarm bells be ringing?

I think if you're taking a free assessment of any type,

you should always get more than one opinion anyway.

And you may well find that the opinions about the damp problem

are quite varied anyway and, if that's the case,

then you should really look for a professional surveyor

to do a survey.

If you've got a surveyor who is suggesting that the wall is damp,

but it's purely on a moisture meter test,

and he cannot point to any other evidence,

then I would be very sceptical as to whether there is a damp problem.

'And it seems you could even be sceptical

'of whether there is a real surveyor in your house.'

If somebody comes round and you're expecting them

to look at your walls and see if you have damp, and they said,

"I'm a salesperson,"

wouldn't you just say, "No, I need a specialist to look at this"?

They don't call themselves salesmen. They will call themselves...

technicians or...

They can use the term surveyor,

there's no sort of legal definition of what a surveyor is, of course.

-Mm-hm.

-I think what you have to look for is a qualified surveyor

and that would be someone that's qualifications

that are recognised in the industry for that kind of survey work.

'So remember our expert's advice - one damp-proof meter reading

'doesn't necessarily mean you have rising damp.

'Get a second opinion if you've had a free survey.

'And always check your surveyor's qualifications.'

I'm answering a cry for help from Shirley Sproule,

whose PPI claim has left her with an unexpected bill.

Her and her husband used claims management company

Elsworth Associates

to claim mis-sold PPI from Lloyds TSB.

Elsworth have already been paid £295 as a fee for one claim

but now they're demanding a fee on a separate claim the Sproules say

THEY raised with Lloyds TSB

AFTER cancelling their contract with Elsworth Associates.

I've been sent documentation by Elsworth,

supporting the fact that they originally asked Lloyds

to look into all loans

and confirming that the bank had Elsworth down

as handling the whole of the Sproules' case.

But Shirley is convinced she was told the case was closed

when she got back in touch with Lloyds TSB

to start the claims process again.

I phoned Lloyds TSB on 21st September,

to see if I could get some kind of confirmation

that they had closed the original account.

So I spoke to someone on that day and, eventually,

I did get him to say that it had been closed on 18th January.

So I asked them, I says,

"Could you actually sent me that out in writing?"

And they said, no, they can't do that, they can't send out paperwork.

I felt as if I was going to have to end up

giving this money to Elsworth

because nobody was giving me paperwork

to prove that we had done the work and not Elsworth.

As Elsworth Associates have asked for the best part of four grand

from Shirley in fees for her additional PPI claims,

I've asked them to provide evidence of the work they did

towards this claim and there's been a development.

They have emailed me to say they are reducing

the amount Shirley owes them from £3,926 to £1,304.

It is a step in the right direction and I can't wait to find out

if they're now starting to see my point.

I had an email from Elsworth.

I've got to say, it's pretty good,

because it's moving in the right direction.

They have now made Shirley an offer of settlement

which is a lot, lot lower than what they first wanted,

but you know me, I'm not going to be happy with that

and I'm going to try and better it.

Right.

RINGING TONE

Voicemail.

Good afternoon to you, it's Dominic Littlewood from the BBC.

I just wanted to have a chat with you

about the last email you sent in

and would appreciate it if you could try and do it

sooner rather than later, if it doesn't inconvenience you.

I look forward to speaking to you. Thanks, Joanne. Bye-bye.

I'm always polite, because that always helps.

But I do hate voicemails!

Oh, well. Looks like I'll just have to wait

for an explanation for the mystery reduced figure.

Shirley and her husband have found themselves caught up

between their bank, Lloyds, and Elsworth, their PPI reclaim company,

which is a pretty awkward position to be in.

So what can you do if you find yourself in a similar situation?

David Cresswell is director of communications

at the Financial Ombudsman Service and he is about to explain all.

The Financial Ombudsman is the organisation that you come to

if you've fallen out with your bank or insurance company

or you've complained to them

and you don't think they're taking you seriously -

you can come to the ombudsman and we're independent.

We'll listen to what you say,

we'll listen to what the bank or the insurance company says

and then we'll make up our mind about what should happen.

So what has the ombudsman's experience been

of payment protection insurance being mis-sold?

People are now saying that PPI is the biggest mis-selling scandal ever

and the banks have got to make sure they've put enough money aside

for everyone who might rightly claim compensation.

At the moment, people are talking about that sum of money

put to one side by the banks as being around 12 to 15 billion

but some people are saying that will easily become

20 billion or 25 billion.

For the record, at the ombudsman,

we're now getting over 10,000 new PPI complaints every week,

which means the banks have, together,

received well over two million complaints.

What do these big numbers about PPI mean for consumers?

The most important thing is that it means, inevitably,

there are going to be lots of people in the queue ahead of you,

so you will have to wait.

Right, so it is clear that the banks

have definitely messed up in the first place

and they are now struggling to cope with demand from unhappy customers.

So, when it comes to Shirley's case, Elsworth might be right

when they say they're not the only ones to blame.

But do you have to use a PPI company to get your money back?

Now hundreds of thousands of people are very successfully

doing it themselves, putting in their claim and winning.

You are just as likely to win by complaining yourself

as you are paying a claims manager to do it for you.

'Wise words indeed, but this doesn't help Shirley,

'who believes she did the second claim herself.

'Elsworth say otherwise, and I've had an email back from Lloyds TSB.

'In the email, they say that they upheld the original claim

'by Elsworth Associates on 18th January 2012, and that

'if no further contact is made, it's usual for them to close a complaint.

'They admit that at the time of the original claim,

'other loans were noted as linked to the Sproules,

'but due to a "clerical oversight",

'they weren't investigated at the time,

'and that when Shirley got back in touch

'they simply reopened the old case under the same reference number.

'Hence, Elsworth Associates being copied into the new offer.

'So Lloyds have put their hands up and admitted

'they should have investigated all other loans at the start,

'and if that had happened, Elsworth would've handled the full claim.

'But they didn't. Now, although they wanted

'the best part of four grand in fees from Shirley and her husband

'for the second batch of claims,

'Elsworth had just reduced their bill to a little over £1,300.

'But I'm keen to know why.'

Good afternoon, it's Dominic Littlewood from the BBC.

Now, I appreciate here you've come back with an offer

and you've reduced the amount that you're now seeking from them

from just under four grand to just over £1,300,

so basically you're asking for a third of what there was.

Can I ask you, where did that figure come from?

'Elsworth say this reduced amount is their share of the PPI refund

'from just one loan forming part of Shirley's £13,000 claim.

'Elsworth Associates say they are entitled to their 25% share

'because this specific loan was named

'in the original contract with Shirley,

'and there had just been a delay in getting it processed.'

Let's make a gesture of goodwill, not an admission of guilt.

Just say to Mrs Sproule,

"D'you know what? On this occasion we are going to wipe this one."

How d'you feel about that?

'Elsworth maintain they think it's reasonable

'to ask for the extra money,

'as it was due to a disjointed payment by Lloyds,

'and that it was THEIR activity

'that got Shirley and her husband all the money back.

'But I disagree.'

At the end of the day, I think there's an air of

both companies probably could have done better.

'The Elsworth representative says they sometimes have huge problems

'with the banks during the PPI claims process, and that they

'have contacted the Financial Services Authority for some advice.'

I've got to say, it's touch and go

as to whether I've got the result I want.

I hate touch and gos.

'Following on from Lloyds' email about "a clerical oversight"

'which delayed their payment of PPI refunds,

'I want to know what they're going to do about this.

'It's not fair on Shirley, who has had months of stress

'and debt collection letters.

'Time for a call, I think.'

I'm meeting Shirley Sproule this afternoon, the idea being that

I'm going to tell her how the case has progressed and what's happened.

When you say there was a clerical oversight, what exactly was that?

'He says they were sent no evidence before July 2013

'that Shirley cancelled her contract with Elsworth.

'He also says that although some loans were missed initially,

'they would have been picked up by an audit at a later date,

'but clearly the bank should have investigated

'all loans in the first place.

'So, I suggest they offer a goodwill gesture to Shirley

'for all the hassle.'

I suppose £1 million is out of the question, isn't it?

'Unsurprisingly, it's a no to the seven figure sum,

'but he does tell me he'll see what he can do.'

Sometimes I just think, "You know what?

"I ain't half good at my job."

'Shortly after getting off the phone, Lloyds have sent me an email

'suggesting they recognise their hand in this stress, and guess what?

'An email has come through from Elsworth Associates as well

'with some interesting information.

'It's time to deliver some news.'

I've arranged to hook up again with Shirley

to let her know how I've been getting on.

-Good to see you again, Shirley.

-Good to see you too, Dom.

Right, Elsworth. Let's start with them.

They believe that they were entitled to their money as a result

of them taking on the first case for you.

The amount of £4,000, give or take a penny or two,

as far as they were concerned, was owing to them by you.

-Mm-hm.

-How would you feel now if I told you

that I'd got your £4,000 debt down to £1,300?

-Reasonably happy.

-Why reasonably?

Cos I still think they want a bit much for what they've done.

How would you feel if I told you that Elsworth did offer that

and I said no?

And subsequently went back to them and they've now come back

and said they're going to scrub your debt totally?

-You're joking.

-No.

SHE LAUGHS

-Really?

-100%.

In their statement to us, they said...

That's unbelievable.

I honestly thought they would want their money.

Is my job done? Am I happy?

I hope so. Cos I'm ecstatic.

It doesn't end there.

Because there was also Lloyds, and there were some errors there

which they made, so I've been on their case as well.

I've got a statement from them.

"Hi, Dominic. Good to speak to you earlier.

"I am pleased to confirm

"that we have agreed to pay Mr and Mrs Sproule £250 compensation

"for the stress and inconvenience caused

"as a result of the clerical oversight that meant all loans

"were not refunded at the time of the original complaint

"received via Elsworth Associates.

"We will also send a bunch of flowers by way of apology.

"We strive to deliver an excellent service for our customers

"and we apologise that we did not meet

"our usual high standards on this occasion."

You've got four grand in your bank, I'm starting to see tears.

We're just ordinary people. And we did the work.

-Why should somebody else get paid for the work we did?

-Yeah.

I can't thank you enough.

My pleasure.

I'll tell you what was nice about giving Shirley that good news.

You could tell by her reaction just how much this had been worrying her,

just how stressed out she was. I've got to say,

as far as Elsworth are concerned, and Lloyds bank,

you've both done yourselves proud and Shirley is a very happy lady.

Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd