Episode 6 Rip Off Britain


Episode 6

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Transcript


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We asked YOU to tell us who has left you feeling ripped off,

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and you contacted us in your thousands by post,

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e-mail, even stopping us on the streets.

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The message could not be clearer.

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I think there's a lot of hidden information about your bills

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that should be made a lot more clear.

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I don't feel I get treated how I should be.

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You've told us with money tighter than ever,

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you need to be sure every pound you spend is worth it.

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How do I get me money back? I just think I'm entitled to it.

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So whether it's a deliberate rip-off,

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a simple mistake or a catch in the small print,

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we'll find out why you're out of pocket and what you can do about it.

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Keep asking the questions, keep... Go to the top if you have to.

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We do get results, I mean, that's the interesting thing.

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Your stories. Your money.

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This is Rip-Off Britain.

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Hello, and welcome once again to Rip-Off Britain,

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the programme that gets to the bottom of why you haven't ended up

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with what you thought you would for your money or indeed your time,

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which of course is the reason the people we'll be meeting in today's programme

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got in touch with us in the first place.

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Because one way or another, they all feel rather let down,

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as indeed we often do when we end up

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with something that just did not live up to the hype

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or even to our own expectations.

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And of course we'll also have plenty of advice,

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so that before you hand over your money, you've done

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everything you can to protect it in case something does go wrong.

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Coming up, the cash voucher system being exploited by scamsters.

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They're actually picking on people that need the money

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and that are vulnerable anyway.

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Very nasty people.

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And as yet more companies fail to deliver on promises of getting

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back your mis-sold PPI, we'll reveal the best way to find out

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if you really are owed thousands of pounds.

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They're not a help to anybody. You don't need them.

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You just can do everything yourself.

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Now, if you're someone who thinks that you're just too savvy

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to be taken in by a scam, well, don't be so sure,

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because here's one that's not only fiendishly clever

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but is very much on the rise.

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So pay attention to how they do it, because remember,

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the next person they target could very well be you.

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It's a scam that always starts the same way, with a simple phone call,

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as cake-maker Fiona Keen discovered in January last year.

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'I was phoned on a Sunday night about nine o'clock'

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by someone called Alex from a 24-hour fraud team

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who seemed to know all my details - my name, my phone number, my address -

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and he said I'd been a victim of a Section 24 fraud,

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my Barclaycard had been, um, cloned, and all my cards had been cloned.

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Claiming to be from Barclaycard, Alex told Fiona

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that her details were already being used

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to buy things like petrol and mobile phone credit,

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and to prove that it wasn't her racking up the cash,

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he needed to send a courier round to collect her cards.

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I immediately said, "I'm not handing my cards over to you,"

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and he said that if they put the cards through a machine,

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it could be proved that I hadn't used the cards,

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then I would definitely get the money back.

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But she refused to hand over her cards.

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And that is when things got really sneaky,

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because Alex asked her to put the phone down

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and call the customer care number on the back of her Barclaycard.

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I put the phone down to Alex

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and picked up the phone and I didn't listen for a dial tone

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and then I phoned the customer care line on the back of Barclaycard

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and I got through to a person and, you know, explained what happened.

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He said, "I'm just going to put you through to the fraud team,"

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and immediately I got through to this Alex.

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But Fiona wasn't speaking to Barclaycard at all.

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In fact, there's no such thing as Section 24 fraud.

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Unbeknown to her, when she'd hung up the phone,

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Alex hadn't disconnected his end of the call

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and was still on the line, which is exactly where he kept Fiona.

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And 30 minutes into the call, a man arrived,

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supposedly a courier from the credit card company,

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ready to collect all six of her cards.

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When I was handing over the cards, I was shaking,

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because I was giving away my personal things,

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and it's just not something that I would normally do.

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So the courier left, claiming to be

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safely taking the cards across London

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so that they could be checked and a block put on them.

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Alex told Fiona she needed to stay on the line until he made it back

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and was through police security.

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He eventually got through,

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and that's when he asked me to read out the PIN numbers

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so he could block them.

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Now eating out of the fraudsters' hands,

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Fiona proceeded to give them the PIN codes for five of her cards

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and she was relieved when Alex said

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they could prove that she hadn't used them

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and she'd be getting all her money back - if she unplugged her phone.

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He said to me, "We need your line in order to wire the money back to you,"

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and that he would tell me when to put the line back.

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Fiona followed his instructions and disconnected her landline.

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I do realise now it was so people couldn't contact me.

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So as arranged, the fraudster rang Fiona again the next day

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on her mobile, to update her

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on the progress supposedly being made with her case.

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He said that they had the CCTV,

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they had the pictures of the people who had been frauding my cards.

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And even though I had doubts at the back of my mind,

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I just kept saying to myself,

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"Oh, you're being silly, because they're sorting it out for you."

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And he did say to me, "You won't need to contact your bank,

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"I'm dealing with that for you as well."

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The reassuring calls to Fiona's mobile continued.

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But when they stopped, she reconnected her landline,

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and that is when she was horrified to realise she'd been scammed.

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I found all the messages on the phone

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that people had been trying to contact me, and the banks, M&S,

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to tell me... I actually felt sick.

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Fiona discovered that the fraudsters

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had quickly made full use of her cards,

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spending a total of £15,000.

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Now, luckily she could prove that she'd been a victim of fraud

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and she got her money back within a week.

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Barclaycard told us that they are aware of this scam

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and would never, ever call asking for personal details

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or requiring cards to be returned,

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and anyone who receives a request like this

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should end the call immediately.

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But this is a very effective scam.

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In the first eight months of last year, thieves managed to snaffle

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ten times the amount of money from it as they did in the whole of 2011,

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a cool £7.5 million.

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So to avoid being caught out, remember, no bank will ever, ever

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ask you for your PIN number over the telephone.

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Meanwhile, although Fiona has her money back,

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she's now on a security register

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and will have to go through enhanced checks

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when trying to get credit in the future.

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This experience has really shaken me up,

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but I'm very relieved to have all my money back.

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It is an extremely sophisticated scam.

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Next, three letters that have become a real financial hot potato

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over the last couple of years, PPI.

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I'm sure you know by now that stands for Payment Protection Insurance,

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a policy that turned out to be mis-sold to million of people

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right across the UK.

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And as a result,

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what seems like no end of companies have sprung up offering to help you

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claim back money that you should never have paid in the first place.

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Well, we've investigated some of those companies before,

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but I'm afraid they show no sign of going away,

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despite the fact that most people don't even need their help anyway.

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You'd be much better ignoring the middle man

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and claiming your money back yourself,

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something this next couple wishes they'd known BEFORE they signed up.

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Like many people, grandparents Ann and Michael Costello

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had no idea that they might be entitled to money

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that they were owed in mis-sold Payment Protection Insurance,

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until, that is, two years ago, when Ann received a call out of the blue.

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A company called Tucan Claims called me,

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saying they could get me PPI back from any credit cards

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or any loans that I've had over so many years,

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and they said they'd already refunded

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lots of money for a lot of customers.

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So she signed up, agreeing to pay Tucan Claims 10% of whatever

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they recovered on her behalf plus an upfront fee of £250,

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although she did wonder why that was necessary.

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I thought that if they did the job right,

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if they were charging the 10% fee, that's their way of being paid.

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Tucan Claims told Ann that seven different companies

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could owe her money,

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but in order to access her records, she needed to pay each of them £10,

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which she did.

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But it took over a year before Tucan sent her a confirmation letter

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to say that they'd been successful with a claim.

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They stated that they'd negotiated a refund of £802 from a credit card.

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Of course, I was really pleased, because this was the first time

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any money looked as though it was coming back to me.

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Well, it may have looked like cash was on its way,

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but sadly, it never materialised.

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So Ann rang the credit card company that was making the refund

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to check why they hadn't sent the money on to Tucan.

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And what she was told next came as quite a shock.

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They'd already sent the money to Tucan Claims, so that was it.

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My money had gone into Tucan Claims's bank.

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I've not seen it since.

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Although they'd certainly received her money,

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Tucan Claims had not sent one penny of it on to Ann.

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So what HAD they done with it?

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I was calling two or three times a week

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to try and chase up where this money was.

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Excuse after excuse.

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I never got an answer to when the money was coming at all.

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Ann and her husband decided to do their own research

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into reclaiming Payment Protection Insurance,

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and they soon discovered a website

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that they wished they'd known about in the first place.

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It just said "Download this information

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"and you can send off and find out yourself

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"if you've got PPI on any loans or any credit cards," which he did.

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And within five weeks, he got a cheque back into the bank.

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So while her husband Michael had got his PPI payment back

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without paying a middle man,

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Ann was left bitterly regretting that she'd ever agreed

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to let Tucan Claims reclaim money on her behalf.

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I just feel totally disgusted with Tucan Claims.

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They're just not a help to anybody. You don't need them.

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You can do everything yourself, and I'm absolutely...

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fed up.

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In February of last year,

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three months after Tucan Claims had cashed the cheque,

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Ann got in touch with them once again.

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On the advice of the Citizens Advice Bureau,

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she threatened them with court action if they didn't pay up within 28 days.

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I've not heard a single word from them. They're just not interested.

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Ann isn't the only one unhappy with Tucan Claims.

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In April of last year, the Ministry of Justice,

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which regulates companies like these,

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prohibited them from providing any further claims-management activities.

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And that line of action happens regularly.

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In the last year,

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the Ministry of Justice has banned or warned 252 PPI claims companies.

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That about a quarter of the industry.

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As for Tucan Claims, the company has now gone into liquidation,

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which perhaps explains why no-one from the company responded

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to our calls, e-mails or letters.

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They were ordered to repay all refunds to customers by last May,

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but Ann still hasn't got her money back.

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She can try to claim it back through Tucan's administrators,

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but so far, she's had no luck. However, there is some light on the horizon.

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From later this year,

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Ann and anyone else who has lost money through claims

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management companies will be able to take their case to the legal

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ombudsman, who will be able to make sure compensation is given

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where appropriate.

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But for the time being, Ann has learnt the hard way that

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if you want to reclaim your PPI, the best way is to do it yourself.

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For more information on how to do that, you can

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always log on to our website.

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It's bbc.co.uk/ripoffbritain.

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Rip-Off Britain has opened up a pop-up shop.

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Inside, our team of experts is ready

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and waiting to help consumers with their problems.

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You know you're in the right

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and almost certainly your case will be upheld.

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And one of the first to see Trading Standards expert Sylvia Rook

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was Aisha. She needs steering in the right direction after being

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ripped off by her driving school.

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I paid for 10 block-book lessons and I only got seven of those lessons,

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and then the driving school closed down, and I didn't get my money back.

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-How much did you pay?

-£180.

-What is the situation with that, then, Sylvia?

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Unfortunately,

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the problem that you face, that the company that has been bought

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out by a different company, and as soon as a company takes over

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another one, the liabilities of the previous company go, so,

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unfortunately, the existing company are under no obligation at all

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to give you a refund.

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You didn't pay only credit card or anything, did you?

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If you'd paid by credit card,

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there might have been some way of getting your money back.

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Are you saying she has got to write that off to experience?

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She is never going to get the money back?

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I'm afraid that's the only thing I can say. Yes, I'm afraid so.

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Not the answer Aisha was hoping for.

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But the good news is she has now passed her test.

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Now, we are told paying bills by direct debit will save us money,

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but personal finance expert Sarah Pennells' next case Anera

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is being penalised because she would rather not pay that way.

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All the other companies that I have my regular bills with,

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one in particular, I get charged £5 every month

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if I don't pay by direct debit.

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Companies absolutely love direct debits.

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They say they like direct debits

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because they are much cheaper to process.

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The real reason they like direct debits is that once you pay

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by direct debit, you are much less likely to check your bill,

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you are much less likely to switch away.

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I think you've got a couple of choices.

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Firstly, you could try and escalate it with this company and say,

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"Is there a way that I can pay regularly?" Some other way

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that is low-cost for them to process without getting penalised.

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Secondly, the other choice is to vote with your feet

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and switch to another company.

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-Thank you for your help.

-You're very welcome.

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Now, unfortunately, there is always someone out there who is

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prepared to do absolutely anything to part you from your hard-earned cash.

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And they're always on the lookout for new ways in which they can do it,

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so you can bet that whenever some bright spark comes up

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with an idea that is supposed to make our lives easier, someone else is

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immediately going to find a way to turn that to their advantage.

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And judging from the e-mails and letters you have sent us,

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that is exactly what seems to be happening with Ukash vouchers -

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a very simple but increasingly popular way to make payments -

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but scamsters are using them to rip you off.

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And here is how they're doing it.

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In May last year,

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Karen McCracken from Nottinghamshire was thrilled

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when she received a call from a withheld number claiming

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she had won £10,000 from Royal Mail.

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'They phoned up at half past ten 10 the morning, saying that'

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I had won this £10,000, and it was from Royal Mail.

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'It was quite exciting, to be fair, I must admit.'

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But to claim it, they asked her for a £50 admin fee, which she

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would have to pay using a Ukash voucher.

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Well, I said that I would have to speak to my husband about it,

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and they turned around and said,

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"You don't need your husband's permission for this.

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I says, "Well, I think I do,

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"cos I haven't got that kind of money to give you anyway."

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And he says, "Oh," he says, "I'll phone you back on Monday."

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He did call back on Monday morning,

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still falsely claiming to be from Royal Mail,

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but when Karen declined the offer, he became aggressive, insisting

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they must have that admin fee whether she wanted her prize or not.

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'They just kept saying that I would need a solicitor, and he went,'

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"I'm going to send the police round to your door

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"to get this money, because you're breaking the law not giving me it."

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'And it got me really scared, to be honest.'

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Then, when I come off the phone, I cried.

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Karen didn't fall for what the man was saying but only

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because the previous year, she had been targeted in a similar way.

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She had again been told that to claim a £10,000 cash prize,

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she would have to pay an admin fee, and that time, she had done it.

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They told me I needed a Ukash voucher and they then told me

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where the shop was, what street it was on and stuff like...

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And I had never heard of them before.

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Ukash vouchers are prepaid shopping vouchers that can be

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purchased at shops across the country.

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You buy a voucher for the amount you want

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and then use the unique number printed on it to spend the money.

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The woman on the phone to Karen said that she would call back

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to get the code, once she bought the voucher.

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So, I went and got the £50 voucher,

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and then they said that that would be it, I would get the cheque.

0:17:580:18:02

Karen had just unwittingly handed over £50 she would never see again.

0:18:020:18:07

The woman who called her

0:18:070:18:09

was using the simplicity of Ukash vouchers to scam her.

0:18:090:18:13

Karen only realised that when her winnings failed to arrive.

0:18:130:18:18

'The cheque never come after Christmas, cos we thought,'

0:18:180:18:20

"Oh, Christmas time, it'll be lovely.

0:18:200:18:23

"We'll get the kids something nice." But it never come.

0:18:230:18:26

Ukash is a convenient way of paying online at websites

0:18:260:18:30

if you don't have a bank account or debit or credit cards,

0:18:300:18:33

but once you have handed over the serial number,

0:18:330:18:36

the payment is completely untraceable.

0:18:360:18:38

It is as if you had used cash, and, unlike using a credit or debit card,

0:18:380:18:43

you have absolutely no protection...

0:18:430:18:46

..as Karen learned the hard way.

0:18:460:18:49

Then I went, "Oh, we've lost 50 quid."

0:18:500:18:52

And it was my last 50 quid out of my bank, to be fair.

0:18:520:18:56

Cos we didn't get paid till the week after.

0:18:560:18:58

After the second incident, she reported the calls to the police

0:19:010:19:05

and to Nottinghamshire Trading Standards,

0:19:050:19:08

who issued a warning about the scam.

0:19:080:19:10

These particular kind of cold calls are particularly difficult

0:19:100:19:15

because of the aggression that is used.

0:19:150:19:16

'They are possibly targeting people who haven't got the facility

0:19:160:19:20

'to use credit cards and debit cards so readily.'

0:19:200:19:22

Ukash vouchers are a brilliant idea.

0:19:220:19:25

They work in a lot of circumstances, but you do need to remember that

0:19:250:19:28

when you give that number over, it is effectively handing the cash over.

0:19:280:19:32

Across the UK, whether it is on the phone or online,

0:19:320:19:35

Ukash vouchers are being exploited by crooks in all sorts of ways.

0:19:350:19:39

In London, conmen have claimed to be police,

0:19:400:19:43

needing a fee paid with Ukash to remove illegal content from PCs.

0:19:430:19:48

In Dunbartonshire, targets have been told

0:19:480:19:51

they are entitled to money from unclaimed insurance policies.

0:19:510:19:54

And in Gloucestershire, a recent scam was more elaborate still.

0:19:540:19:59

A woman reported handing £600 worth of Ukash vouchers to a man

0:19:590:20:04

who had first rung to say she was entitled

0:20:040:20:06

to £4,000 worth of mis-sold PPI, then turned up at her house

0:20:060:20:11

with very convincing forms for her to sign.

0:20:110:20:14

So, are Ukash doing enough to keep consumers safe?

0:20:160:20:19

'Let's see what the company's chief executive David Hunter has to say

0:20:190:20:22

'about the way that the system is being abused.'

0:20:220:20:26

These criminals are exploiting the fact that people can be

0:20:260:20:30

convinced to use the product in a way it's not designed to be used,

0:20:300:20:33

against our strict terms of use, against the alerts we have

0:20:330:20:38

put on the vouchers saying, "Please do not give details away to anybody.

0:20:380:20:42

"Only use at participating Ukash websites." This has been exploited.

0:20:420:20:47

So, David, what it is the key advice you would give people to make sure

0:20:470:20:50

they don't get taken for a ride and don't have their money taken?

0:20:500:20:54

I think it is really important that people recognise this is like cash.

0:20:540:20:57

That number, that is the security of their value.

0:20:570:21:01

Please don't give that to anybody, over the phone or by e-mail,

0:21:010:21:04

unless you want them to have the value.

0:21:040:21:07

Following our last programme featuring this issue,

0:21:070:21:09

Ukash says it has seen

0:21:090:21:11

a 45% reduction in new victims

0:21:110:21:14

of this kind of scam coming to them,

0:21:140:21:16

and in January, a criminal gang

0:21:160:21:18

with a similar operation was arrested abroad.

0:21:180:21:20

They're actually picking on people that need the money,

0:21:230:21:26

and they're vulnerable anyway, so they're going to take the money.

0:21:260:21:30

Very nasty people. Very nasty people.

0:21:300:21:33

We all make mistakes, and big companies are no exception.

0:21:360:21:39

It is what they do to put those mistakes right that can leave you

0:21:390:21:43

feeling ripped off, so you need to know what your rights are

0:21:430:21:47

and where to go when you don't think you have been treated fairly.

0:21:470:21:50

So we have put together a booklet of tips and advice.

0:21:500:21:54

You can find a link to the free guide on our website.

0:21:540:21:57

It is at bbc.co.uk/ripoffbritain.

0:21:570:22:01

Or to receive a copy in the post, send a stamped, self-addressed

0:22:010:22:05

A5 envelope to the address that we'll give you at the end of the programme.

0:22:050:22:08

Now, if you're really being honest, which one of us hasn't at some

0:22:120:22:15

stage dreamt of what we could do if we won that small fortune in cash?

0:22:150:22:19

So, imagine how you would feel if you suddenly received

0:22:190:22:22

a letter in the post saying that you had won thousands of pounds.

0:22:220:22:26

Not that you stood a chance of winning it,

0:22:260:22:28

but that already the money was definitely yours.

0:22:280:22:30

On average, every household receives 377 pieces of junk mail

0:22:330:22:38

through its letterbox each year, and it can be very hard to decide

0:22:380:22:41

what is junk and what is a genuine offer or promise.

0:22:410:22:45

A dilemma faced by Alan Downing last year when he started getting

0:22:480:22:51

letters saying that he had won huge cash prizes.

0:22:510:22:55

"We hereby confirm that the amount of this cheque is £15,500."

0:22:550:23:00

15,500, 15,500, 15,500,

0:23:000:23:07

15,500 and 20,500.

0:23:070:23:13

If all this did come to me,

0:23:130:23:15

I would be one of the richest men in Manchester.

0:23:150:23:18

The letters came from a mail order company called Star Shopping,

0:23:190:23:23

which has a post office address in Dublin.

0:23:230:23:26

They said they guaranteed a cash prize.

0:23:260:23:29

And with such a clear promise,

0:23:290:23:30

72-year-old Alan just couldn't resist replying.

0:23:300:23:34

When I saw the documents, I thought,

0:23:340:23:36

"Well, we can all do with 20 and a half grand for doing nothing."

0:23:360:23:40

I was quite wary it was going to be a scam,

0:23:400:23:43

but I thought, "I will continue, because it only costs me a stamp."

0:23:430:23:47

Star Shopping quickly wrote back.

0:23:470:23:50

Not with a cheque, but with an assurance that

0:23:500:23:52

if Alan ordered something from the catalogue they had sent,

0:23:520:23:55

the money would be dispatched right away.

0:23:550:23:58

Their catalogue said I didn't have to buy anything,

0:23:580:24:01

but, if I did, it would speed it up.

0:24:010:24:04

So, Alan placed an order.

0:24:040:24:07

I got the goods.

0:24:070:24:09

I got this plastic squeegee thing on a piece of plastic but no cheque.

0:24:090:24:14

And, funnily enough, there are still hasn't been.

0:24:140:24:17

Although over the next six months Alan received a further 25 letters

0:24:170:24:21

insisting that the money was still waiting for him

0:24:210:24:25

at Star Shopping's headquarters,

0:24:250:24:27

and all he had to do to get it was order more.

0:24:270:24:31

20,500, this one.

0:24:310:24:32

"Mr Downing, this is the best day of your life."

0:24:320:24:36

I thought that was my wedding day.

0:24:360:24:39

"You are the one and only

0:24:390:24:42

"lucky winning beneficiary of the Big Bank cheque for 20,500."

0:24:420:24:48

They don't give up with this.

0:24:480:24:49

But I'm afraid Alan has given up on ever receiving his prize.

0:24:520:24:55

Still, at least he didn't waste too much money.

0:24:550:24:59

Unlike John Cooper from Bournemouth.

0:24:590:25:01

He received the same letters from Star Shopping and indeed from

0:25:010:25:04

other mail order companies, some of which appear to be connected.

0:25:040:25:07

He was also told that as soon as he ordered from the catalogues,

0:25:070:25:11

his five-figure prize would be on its way.

0:25:110:25:14

I probably placed about 16 to 18 orders with Star,

0:25:140:25:20

and with their other mail order firms, probably about another 10.

0:25:200:25:24

Generally speaking,

0:25:240:25:26

I suppose the orders would come to about £15-20 each time.

0:25:260:25:30

When John contacted Star Shopping to see where his winner's cheque was,

0:25:320:25:35

three of the company directors assured him

0:25:350:25:38

in writing that it would be sent to him shortly.

0:25:380:25:42

Believing that his winnings were on their way,

0:25:420:25:44

John spent £350 on Star Shopping products alone.

0:25:440:25:48

He also spent almost £200 on goods from the other catalogues,

0:25:480:25:52

because they too promised that he had won big cash prizes.

0:25:520:25:57

There's probably about 300 different pamphlets,

0:25:570:26:00

envelopes and letters, all of which are clearly pointing out that

0:26:000:26:06

a massive prize has been won by myself.

0:26:060:26:10

When something makes a statement like that in business,

0:26:100:26:13

on a contract, and firms make that contract, then they must stand by it.

0:26:130:26:18

And if it is lies or deceit, it is fraud.

0:26:180:26:22

Now, you may also have received catalogues like these.

0:26:250:26:27

Many of them have addresses in either the Netherlands or Belgium,

0:26:270:26:30

and several of them

0:26:300:26:32

have links to a Belgian mail order company, a business

0:26:320:26:37

that the Office Of Fair Trading has taken action against in the past,

0:26:370:26:41

all as part of an ongoing battle about these kinds of prize draws.

0:26:410:26:45

But I'm afraid that hasn't stopped the same sort

0:26:450:26:47

of misleading letters being sent to countless households across the UK.

0:26:470:26:52

We contacted all the companies who had written to John to ask

0:26:520:26:56

why neither he nor anyone else we have heard from has ever

0:26:560:26:59

received the prize they were supposedly guaranteed.

0:26:590:27:03

Not one of them replied.

0:27:030:27:04

So, Alan has some words of wisdom for anyone who receives

0:27:050:27:09

a letter like this, suggesting they have won a cash prize.

0:27:090:27:13

My advice to anyone who gets these is don't even look at.

0:27:130:27:16

Just stick it in the bin. Or return to sender.

0:27:160:27:19

Cos you're not going to get it.

0:27:190:27:20

Here at Rip-Off Britain, we are

0:27:250:27:26

always ready to investigate more of your stories.

0:27:260:27:29

You can write to us at...

0:27:310:27:32

Or send us an e-mail to...

0:27:420:27:44

So, as we have heard today, sometimes we need to manage our own

0:27:490:27:52

expectations before getting too excited about an offer

0:27:520:27:56

or a promise that may not be quite as good as the website

0:27:560:27:59

or the ads would have us believe.

0:27:590:28:00

But even so, when you are forking out good money,

0:28:000:28:03

you really should expect to get what you pay for

0:28:030:28:06

and if you don't, then you need to make sure that you know your rights

0:28:060:28:09

so that you know the most effective way of getting your money back.

0:28:090:28:13

And do think about the way you pay for things.

0:28:130:28:16

Remember that paying by credit card will usually give you protection

0:28:160:28:19

if something does go wrong.

0:28:190:28:21

Well, that's all we've got time for today, but we hope you can

0:28:210:28:24

join us next time when we will be looking into more of your stories.

0:28:240:28:27

-Till then, from all of us, bye-bye.

-Bye.

-Bye.

0:28:270:28:29

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