Episode 3 The Legalizer

I've had an interesting life -

coalminer, forklift truck driver,

bricklayer, factory production line worker,

fireman...

I've lived rough on the streets of London and Paris.

But now I've got a new job.

As a Queen's Counsel barrister, I know the law inside-out.

I've prosecuted and defended some of the UK's most serious criminals,

but the life I've led means I know that the world can be a tough place.

At some points, we've all felt ripped off, cheated or conned.

It's frustrating, costly and stressful.

But I know consumers can fight back and get justice.

I'm not here to represent anyone,

but what I want is to empower you

to use the law to get what you're owed.

Today, I'll be helping a homeowner in Wales

deal with a dispute over some specially-made kitchen worktops.

It's just so, so below standard that I'd be ashamed to fit it.

But first, I'm in Leicestershire with a mother and daughter

who are trying to find out what happened to their horse.

She basically gave her away.

I'm going to help these people work out how they've been cheated

and show them how they can use the law to get back what they're owed.

Over three and half million people regularly ride horses in the UK,

and Mandy Everley's daughters are two of them.

My name is Mandy. I have two children, Rosie and Holly.

Rosie is 23 in a couple of weeks

and Holly is 20.

Both of Mandy's daughters loved horse-riding from an early age.

Come on! Good girl!

At the moment, we've got one pony, called Penny.

I've had a lot of fun with them.

They've been part of my life for a long time.

What are they doing?

Come on. Good girl.

Rosie's favourite pony was called Libby

and the two were inseparable.

We bought Libby when I was 14. She was a real character.

We won quite a few trophies in our local shows

and genuinely had quite a lot of fun together.

When Rosie went away to university,

they decided it would be better for the horse

if they could find a more active rider who could take her on loan.

She was still a very active horse

and I do think that she missed being ridden.

Horse-loaning is very common.

An owner finds a new home for their horse, without actually selling it.

Sometimes, horses are loaned out for years.

Generally no money changes hands, unless there are vets bills to pay.

Mandy found someone who wanted to take the horse.

Both parties signed the agreement, which said that the horse would always be Mandy's property

and would be returned to her whenever she asked for it.

Libby was very happy in her new home,

but as she got older, it became clear she needed to retire and live as a companion horse,

where there was no pressure for her to be ridden.

We'd actually found someone who was looking for a companion horse at the time.

This was a lady in Telford.

Another loan agreement was made with the new keeper, Denise from Telford.

Mandy and Rosie went to visit their horse in her new home

and were delighted to see she was happy and well looked-after.

Everything was fine for the next few months,

until Mandy received a phone call.

I had a call from Denise saying that she was pregnant

and she couldn't keep Libby any longer while she was pregnant,

but that she had found Libby another home

with a lady called Rachel, from Chester.

Mandy asked Denise for the contact details of the woman from Chester

so she could draw up a new loan agreement.

I tried and tried and tried ringing the mobile number that I was given.

To start with, there was no answer, it just rang and rang,

and then after a while it was just discontinued.

I started to get a little bit worried at this point!

Mandy was now so worried

that she went back to ask what had happened to her horse.

The answer Denise gave her was a shock.

She didn't think we were that bothered with Libby

and basically gave her away.

Both mother and daughter were now frantic.

Their horse had disappeared.

They chased every lead and even placed "missing" posters on horse websites,

desperately hoping that someone might be able to help.

We didn't know where she was,

we didn't know, you know, what state she was,

we didn't know who'd got her,

we didn't know what she was being used for. We hadn't got a clue.

For a year, the two women tried everything to find their horse,

and while searching the National Equine Database

they received the worse news possible.

We discovered that she'd been registered as deceased.

They continued to investigate

and were shocked to discover that Libby had been slaughtered at an abattoir

only a few days after the date Denise had told them she'd given the horse away.

Someone had sold her to a horse dealer

and the horse dealer had taken her for meat, basically. I think that's what happened.

It's torn us apart, really.

Me and Libby spent a lot of time together.

I grew up, you know, through my teenage years with her.

There is an enormous amount of guilt, erm, on my shoulders

because I was the person who actually said,

"I think it's time to find Libby another home now."

If Denise had stuck to the agreement

and she genuinely couldn't keep her any more,

we would've had her back.

Mandy and Rosie now want to know why Denise ignored the terms of the loan agreement

and let the horse leave her care.

There is absolutely no reason to think that Denise is responsible for the horse being slaughtered,

but she did sign a contract with Mandy,

and when she let the horse out of her care, she breached that contract.

Mandy and Rosie have tried everything to try and find out what happened to their horse.

They even contacted the police, but they said it was a civil matter.

Well, they may not want to help but I do,

and I'll be meeting up with Mandy and her daughter later.

Situated at the farthest corner of South West Wales,

and exposed to everything that the Atlantic has to throw at it, is the town of Fishguard.

Someone who's quite at home in the outdoors is all-round handyman,

and, when it's not raining, tree surgeon Jim Scott.

Jim moved into this house with his wife and her four children

with the idea of turning it into a dream home,

finished exactly as they wanted.

We bought this house because it was an unfinished new-build

and it showed potential for a family home for us.

Jim is an experienced and skilled craftsman,

so he wanted to install his own dream kitchen.

First he chose the units, then the worktops.

I designed the kitchen myself.

I looked into a lot of different worktops

and eventually decided that Welsh slate would be a nice finish.

It's quite a contemporary look.

Welsh slate is a natural product with a smooth and waterproof surface,

usually quarried in the mountains of North Wales.

Large, unblemished slabs can be expensive and difficult to extract.

One of the major factors was how quickly we could get it,

because we had to get the house finished and we had to get moved into the house.

Jim found a company called Welsh Slate Products.

The pictures on their website were perfect and matched exactly what he was looking for.

The owner, Ben Edge,

promised to deliver within Jim's budget and, more importantly, on time.

Ben was very enthusiastic

about the fact that he could probably get it done in two weeks

and if not, definitely three to five weeks.

I was really pleased that someone could do it that quickly.

The order was for four worktops,

each carefully cut by Welsh Slate Products

to match Jim's designs.

Jim transferred £2,700, which included the cost of delivery,

but the slate failed to arrive.

Months and months later after initial payment,

finally, two of the pieces of slate were ready.

He sent me a photograph of those to show that they were ready.

Jim and his wife drove five hours to North Wales,

but when they got there Ben Edge told them the slate still wasn't finished.

They paid to spend two nights in a hotel,

and even then, they only left with half of their order.

More and more months went by.

I decided to give Ben a deadline, which was me and Jill getting married,

in the hope that it would spur him on.

He even said on the phone at one point,

"Let's get all this delivered within a year!"

More than 12 months since he placed the original order,

Jim returned to North Wales, spending the night in the back of his van this time.

He collected the rest of the slate,

but when he fitted it to his kitchen

he discovered it had been cut to different thicknesses and not to his specifications.

He's actually finished them to different thicknesses.

They don't actually match.

Ben Edge of Welsh Slate Products

did offer to give Jim some of his money back,

but it never materialised.

Ben actually rang and said, "I'm going to send £200,"

and that was the last I heard of him.

We obviously haven't received any money.

Jim now wants Ben Edge to give him a refund

and cover all of the extra costs involved in collecting the slate.

The key word here is bespoke.

Jim's order wasn't off the shelf, it had to be especially made for him

and if what he ordered isn't what he got,

he's got a good case to ask for his money back.

I'll be seeing him later to work out how much he should ask for.

Now back to Leicestershire,

where Mandy Everley is trying to find out what happened to her horse that went missing while on loan.

Mandy and her daughter have since discovered the horse was slaughtered in an abattoir

just days after it went missing.

This really is a sad story. Mandy signed an agreement

which said her horse could not be given to someone else without her consent.

Unfortunately, that appears to be exactly what has happened.

The trouble is, no-one seems to be able to explain how or why.

I'm not here to take sides,

but Mandy and Rosie are entitled to know what happened to their horse,

and I'm hoping that with my help, they can get some answers

and then put this sad affair behind them.

-Hello!

-Hi, Mandy. Gary Bell.

-BOTH: Nice to meet you.

-Come in!

I also want to clear up any confusion that they have about contract law.

One thing that has confused us a little bit in this has been that,

when I contacted the police, they did say that the loan agreement counted for nothing

because it wasn't overseen by a solicitor when it was signed.

Is that a necessary step that people should take?

I find it very odd that the police feel they're now experts in contract law.

No, it's absolute rubbish.

Apart from real property, all contracts are contracts,

whether they're written or verbal. Mandy's certainly was.

This was an agreement between you and Denise, signed by Denise,

-and it sets out all the terms of the loan.

-BOTH: Yes.

It says, "Under no circumstances are you permitted to lease or sell the horse to any third parties

-"without consent from the owner." That would be you?

-BOTH: Yes.

Do you know whether or not Denise sold this horse?

We don't know.

When was it that Denise called up

to say that she'd found somebody that could look after Libby,

called Rachel, in Chester?

It was early in February.

But on the 7th of February,

-you know that Libby was killed on that day.

-Yes.

-Do you know where and how?

-We know that the abattoir got her from a dealer,

but we haven't made a direct connection between the dealer and where he got Libby from.

-Right.

-We've got a little piece of the jigsaw missing.

-Yes.

Until we can find out who the dealer bought Libby from, no...

The dealer shouldn't have bought the horse

without checking that the person that bought it from

was the one who was registered as the owner on the passport,

and the abattoir shouldn't have taken the horse unless they'd made the same checks.

Mm. That's true.

This poor horse was let down three times.

The dealer didn't check who really owned her,

the abattoir did not check her passport

and Denise gave her away, in breach of the loan agreement.

Looking at the contract that Denise signed for the loan of Libby,

it's perfectly clear that she's breached the terms of that contract in a number of ways.

Whether she gave her away or whether she sold her

doesn't really matter.

She breached the terms of that contract

that Libby should've either gone to somebody on loan, with your permission,

or come back to you so you could look after her.

Libby was not her pony

and she didn't have the authority to do that with her.

So the action is against Denise for breach of contract.

How much would Libby have been worth, as a 24-year-old horse?

If I'd have sold her on - £300? Not much it all.

-And probably 100 for all of the kit.

-Yeah, there was tack and kit that went with her.

So for the breach of contract that resulted in the death of their horse,

Rosie and Mandy will be claiming £300 for the value of the horse

and £100 for her bridle, reins and tack.

That's a total of £400.

This isn't about money.

This is about a devastating experience that you've suffered

as a result of Denise's actions.

Whatever she thinks about the loan agreement,

it's signed by her, it's witnessed

and it shows quite clearly that you're the owner.

The next thing we need to do is to write a Letter Before Action to Denise.

A Letter Before Action is the first step you must take when you're making a claim.

We need Denise to understand that there was a contract between them and it was binding.

It clearly stated that the horse was not hers to sell or give away.

She must now pay for the loss because she let the horse go without permission.

We should also set a time limit of 14 days,

giving Denise every opportunity to resolve the issue.

Let's hope that when Denise receives this letter,

she'll begin to realise the enormity of what she's done

and she'll have to pay a small amount of money,

but at least that will show that what she did was very wrong.

Hopefully, it will stop other people from doing the same in the future.

Hopefully, that will be the case.

What do you think now, when you think back to Libby and how she ended up?

I don't think she deserved what she got. She'd, erm...

She'd done a lot in her life. She, erm...

She used to jump professionally before we had her

and, erm...

I just... I don't think she deserved it.

This case isn't really about compensation

but, sadly, going to court may be the only way Mandy can get Denise to respond

and help her fill in the final piece of the mystery

of what happened to her daughter's horse.

Jim Scott thought that he was ordering some finely-crafted Welsh slate worktops

for his newly-built kitchen.

After waiting more than a year for them to be delivered,

he got fed up and collected them,

only to discover that they didn't match the order he'd agreed to pay for.

Jim's worktops are a bespoke product,

made-to-measure for his kitchen.

Consumer law around distance selling and bespoke products

is slightly different than buying things off the shelf,

but the basic principle is the same - you should get what you pay for.

As long as both buyer and seller are clear about what is expected,

that is what should be delivered.

So far, Jim has had no luck getting any of his money back.

Hopefully, I can help him work out what he should claim and how to get it.

-Jim.

-Hi.

-Gary Bell.

-Pleased to meet you.

-Shall we go and look at that kitchen?

-Please come in.

These two worktop surfaces are completely different thicknesses.

This piece actually was five mil too long.

This piece was delivered months before that one.

This has a pencil-edge finish, whereas this has a bevel edge.

They just don't match at all.

-Had you given precise measurements and thickness requirements?

-Absolutely.

I gave exact measurements and details, completely and utterly precise measurements.

There's a cut in the middle of that piece of slate for the sink.

That came as it was.

-Is that satisfactory?

-Er, no.

-Is it supposed to have these big white stripes in it?

-No.

-I notice this edge, as well, is very sharp. Did you do that?

-No.

Then you've got upstands, as well, which were part of the price,

-they're the pieces at the back.

-That's right.

-Were they OK?

They're actually a different height, roughly 100 mil,

so they didn't match up either.

It's just so, you know, below standard

that any kitchen fitter would be ashamed to fit it.

-They do say that the cobbler's kids are always the worst clod.

-Yeah.

So all in all, are you happy with your four slate surfaces?

No, not at all, no!

I don't see any reason why you shouldn't get the kitchen that you paid for

and as you haven't, get it from somebody else

who will do it to the right specifications and within the right timeframe

and get your money back from Mr Edge.

Well, that would certainly be something, yeah.

And when you get the new kitchen, you can fit it and send this slate back,

or you can make him come and collect it, maybe sleep in his van.

HE CHUCKLES Yeah! Yeah.

Well, let's see if we can go and get your money back.

Because Jim's worktops are not what he ordered or paid for,

he has a good case for a refund.

I'm going to help him work out what he can ask for

so we can set it out in a Letter Before Action.

-Petrol money?

-The first time we drove up,

it cost about £80 in petrol money and we had to stay in a hotel.

£80. Hotel... How much did you pay for the hotel?

The hotel was another £150.

Two nights in a hotel, petrol money.

We won't worry about you having to eat out and subsistence costs. We'll leave that, shall we?

That might be a bit remote.

-And then the second trip?

-The second time I had to drive up, I was in the van

so it cost a bit more, about £100 in diesel.

-No hotel bill because you slept in the van, which you can't get compensation for.

-No.

-But it's a pain.

-Yes.

I think that Jim can ask for any costs that can he directly attribute to Ben Edge,

but I always think it's best to add only the larger, basic costs.

And of course, you've ended up with kitchen work surfaces which are not fit for purpose

and you'd like your money back for those of £2,700.

And then, obviously time off work, how many days off work?

It was three in total, yeah.

And what would that cost?

In reality, I would've been earning about £120 a day, so...

We'll put £360 down.

-That's reflected in your accounts, we can see that that's what you earn a day?

-Yeah.

£180 for the petrol,

150 for the hotel,

a grand total of...

Well, there's my maths.

What Jim is actually claiming from Welsh Slate Products is...

..and a total of £531 for the other expenses he's had to pay

in order to collect the slate that was supposed to be delivered.

That's a total of £3,265.

Jim needs to set all this out in his Letter Before Action

and send it off to Ben Edge.

-Let's post it, then. This should be the first step in you getting your money back.

-Yes.

My name is Gary Bell

and as QC, I spend most of my working life dealing with major court cases.

But I haven't always been a barrister,

I've known some tough times,

and now I want to use my knowledge of the law to help others.

I want to show you how you can use the courts to recover your money.

Mandy Everley is trying to recover the value of her daughter's horse, Libby,

which went missing whilst out on loan.

The new keeper breached the loan agreement by passing her on without permission

and, sadly, the horse was later slaughtered in an abattoir.

Poor old Libby. The loan agreement Mandy signed

was there to make sure that this sort of thing didn't happen.

Contract law is a specialist area but, in essence, it's very simple -

if you make an agreement, you should stick to it.

Even without a written contract,

a verbal agreement can still be legally binding.

This is Anabel Jay.

She loaned out her horse on the strength of a verbal contract

and had to use the threat of legal action to get it back.

Anabel is part of a program

that maintains the bloodline of a rare variety of Spanish horse.

When things got busy at home, she decided to take a break from horse breeding

and loaned out her prize-breeding mare Chimene to a couple she knew.

It was a temporary loan and all went well at first.

But when Anabel decided it was time to go back to horse breeding,

she asked for her horse to be returned.

I didn't get her back.

They started not responding or hanging up.

When I did get hold of his wife,

she came out with some comment that it was her horse

and she was keeping her and I couldn't have her back.

Anabel contacted the police. Initially, they were helpful.

We went with the horsebox to get my horse back.

The police, at the last minute, pulled out

and decided that it wasn't their business, I'd got to deal with it through the courts.

Anabel now had to prove the horse was hers.

She asked a solicitor who specialised in horse ownership to help,

and simply the threat of legal action got results.

They hadn't reckoned I would seriously go to a lawyer.

As it was, for some reason, they suddenly agreed.

Their lawyer, I think, had made it quite clear to them

that the horse was not for sale, they'd got to give it back.

Chimene came home

and last year gave birth to a young colt,

who can carry on the bloodline.

This is Valiente!

Anabel got her horse back because she was able to show that she still owned it.

A written loan agreement would've set this out from the start and made things more clear.

But even if you sign an agreement,

it's important to make sure that the person you sign it with is who they say they are.

-This is Emma Hitchcox.

-I absolutely love horses. I've done it since I was,

well, as long as I can remember, I've loved animals and horses.

Emma has owned lots of horses

and two of her favourites are Lady and Gwendolyn.

In 2008, Emma needed to find a temporary home for both horses.

She was contacted by a woman who said she needed some companion horses

for her own pony.

When the lady first came to see Gwendolyn and Lady, she was absolutely lovely.

She couldn't have been kinder.

But Emma had no idea

that the woman eyeing her horses had other plans.

Emma was so convinced by her that she signed a loan agreement on the spot

and allowed her to take her horses away.

For two weeks, she received texts and picture messages from the woman

showing her horses happy in their new home.

Emma decided to pay them a visit.

When we got to the address,

the lady answered and there didn't appear to be any horses in the field.

I asked her where the horses were and she said she'd never heard of the lady,

there'd never been any horses at this address and she'd lived here her whole life.

Emma was frantic

and started to search for answers.

I was filled with absolute dread at the time.

I felt sick to my stomach.

When I typed her mobile number into Google,

I was shocked to find lots of adverts on horse-for-sale websites,

with pony and horses listed for sale,

and I then panicked.

Emma now realised that she'd been conned.

The name on the loan agreement was a fake.

She had no idea where her horses were

and she started to fear the worst.

My mother called round all the abattoirs in the UK

and, after much persuasion...

..one of the abattoirs said, "We believe your horse came through."

The abattoir had slaughtered both Lady and Gwendolyn.

I cried myself to sleep for months and months.

I was absolutely distraught. I didn't know what to do with myself.

I couldn't believe anyone could take something that someone loved so dearly,

take that animal and send it to a slaughterhouse.

Emma now realised that this wasn't the first time

the woman who signed the agreement had used this fake name.

We've discovered that she's done it to numerous people,

before and after us.

I never got over it. And to this day now,

I still haven't got over what happened to my girls.

There are clearly some people who take horses on a regular basis

and are then making money by selling them to an abattoir.

There is absolutely no suggestion that the case of Mandy's horse

is anything other than a one-off, tragic occurrence,

but as these other cases show,

it's important not only to have a written agreement

but to check out thoroughly the person that is taking your horse.

A contract is only as good as the person who signs it.

I'll be visiting Mandy later to see if she's had a reply to her Letter Before Action.

Jim Scott paid for natural slate worktops from North Wales

but after a year of waiting for them to be delivered, he collected them himself.

He then discovered that not only was the slate not cut to his specifications,

it wasn't at the high quality he'd paid for.

Jim has now written to the company asking for a refund

and he's waiting for a reply.

Jim ordered a bespoke product made from natural materials.

If the case goes all the way to court,

the supplier may well argue that there are going to be blemishes and imperfections,

it's natural stone!

I want to be absolutely certain that Jim's argument is watertight.

I've sent photos of his slate to be looked at

by cut-stone expert Barry Hunt.

Here is the photograph of the kitchen sink.

There are lots of problems with this

where they've cut out a section of the stone really...

..to fit the sink into.

What we've got in the top corner here is a very incorrect circular cut,

which just doesn't match the sink at all.

That's one of the worst cuts I've seen in quite a while.

The next photograph I'm looking at is actually of...

..the sides of the two of the panels that we received by Jim

and on the left side, we have one that's three or four millimetres thicker

than the one on the right-hand side.

This third photograph is of two pieces of stone,

which apparently arrived separately.

The fact is, both edges are quite different and it shows up very dramatically.

It's something very basic that just shouldn't be allowed with any natural stone product.

It certainly looked like...

..there were three, four, five major things not right.

It's as simple as that.

It looks like Jim has a strong case.

And he's not alone in having problems with Ben Edge and Welsh Slate Products.

Steven Cooper from Sandbach in Cheshire

wanted to landscape his garden with a lawn and a large pond, surrounded by walls and paving.

The search for stone led Steven to Ben Edge

and his company Welsh Slate Products.

He had quite a good internet site. He seemed to have all the pictures.

He showed us some samples he'd got of the slate walling and paving.

He seemed very keen to do business

so we were quite happy to go ahead with that.

Steven ordered 37 square metres of slate paving and walling

and paid upfront for the materials and transport.

But months passed before any slate arrived...

..and when it did, it was neither the amount nor the quality that had been paid for.

We paid £2,035,

plus a little bit extra for the delivery.

We ordered 37 square metres

and he's delivered 14 of those.

Just over half the slate Steven paid for was delivered

and he made a court claim against Ben Edge and won his case.

In the meantime, he's finished his project with stone from another supplier.

Eventually, once we'd saved up some money again, we went to another slate supplier.

We went with the same specification,

and everything they supplied was just better quality, it was delivered on time.

It was just a better experience all round.

For whatever reason, Ben Edge seems to have had difficulty delivering on time, if at all.

He has, however, replied to Jim's Letter Before Action

saying if Jim returns the slate, he'll return the money.

But Jim made it clear that the money must be returned first,

which, so far, it hasn't.

The 14-day-deadline is up and Ben Edge hasn't paid.

Jim really has no other choice but to take him to court.

Right, Jim, he's had his two weeks. Has he paid up?

Er, no, he hasn't.

And you said to him, "14 days,

-"and if you don't pay the money, I'll take you to court."

-Yes.

So now the only option you've got is to take him to court.

As with all court forms, it's a good idea to keep things as simple as possible.

The claimant is you, Jim Scott.

-Is it Jim or James?

-Er, James.

-James Scott.

Then it's the defendant, Ben Edge, in person because he's not a limited company.

Next are the brief details of the claim.

Here is where Jim can explain what problems there are with the goods that have been supplied.

We've got the edging, the upstands being different heights,

we've got the poor finish on the corners...

-The white stripes.

-The white stripes running throughout them...

It's like the Generation Game, isn't it? Cuddly toy...

Once we'd managed to remember all the problems,

Jim also needs to show how he's worked out what he's owed,

proving that he spent money on fuel, accommodation and extra materials.

And you put your full name in here, and signed by you. Just sign that.

-Are you happy to do this, Jim?

-Absolutely.

You appreciate the cost involved in taking somebody to court?

I do, but if we can get some compensation

from such a nightmare, financially,

and all the stress he's caused, then it'll be a good thing.

Right, just sign there.

Because Ben failed to pay up,

Jim's done what he said he would and taken him to court.

If he's supplied Jim with the slate he'd ordered in the first place, Ben could've avoided all this.

Now he can explain himself to the judge.

Back now to the case of Mandy,

who is trying to recover the value of her daughter's horse that went missing while on loan.

Unfortunately, the woman who was looking after the horse, Denise,

broke the contract and gave the horse away.

Mandy sent a Letter Before Action and Denise hasn't replied.

The only option she has now is to take her to court.

We haven't heard back from Denise.

-No.

-So the only option available now is to take her to court.

-Yes.

-Are you prepared to do that?

-Yes, I am.

I want some form of redress for what happened to Libby.

I do feel that wrongdoing has been done here,

erm, to Libby and my daughter and myself.

I do want to find out the truth

and I want someone to have to pay for what's happened to Libby, really.

What we have to do is set out our argument in the claim form.

-Right.

-It's a small claim.

We need to start Mandy's claim by filling in a form.

You can find them online at your local court or a Citizens Advice Bureau.

What we need to do in the Brief Details of Claim

is to let the judge see immediately what the problem is.

Mandy must say that she loaned her horse to Denise with a written agreement

and that Denise gave the horse away without first asking for permission.

The horse was then slaughtered in an abattoir.

The value of the horse will be estimated at £300

and £100 for bridle, saddle and reins.

There's a court fee of £50 which can be added.

The total claim is therefore £450.

This is a very unusual type of case because it's not about money,

-it's not about making people pay for what they've taken or destroyed.

-Yes.

It's about trying to get Denise to face up to the enormity of what she's done.

-Well, here's the letter for the court.

-Thank you.

So in the postbox and that'll be that.

I have no idea how it is that Libby moved from the field that she was living in with Denise,

only Denise knows that,

but, hopefully, in court she can explain herself

and the court can make her pay for what she's done.

In Pembrokeshire, Jim Scott has been waiting to hear

if Ben Edge of Welsh Slate Products has filed a defence.

Jim is claiming a refund for the cost of his slate worktops

and the expenses he incurred in collecting them.

In total, his claim is £3,265.

Jim's heard from the court.

I rang the, erm, the money claim online people

to find out what the status of the claim was

and they informed me that I'd won be default.

It seems Ben Edge failed to deliver a defence to the court,

and in doing so, he effectively admitted the claim.

Now he has to pay Jim in full and cover his court fees

and if he doesn't, Jim can pass the claim on for enforcement.

Because Mr Edge didn't come up with the money,

any costs that I now incur by pursuing him

obviously get added onto his debt,

so I'm not going to lose any more money.

I remember even saying to him, "I'm going to go with you

"because you sound like a nice bloke and someone I can trust."

I just like, you know, rue the day I ever said that to him.

It's been really satisfying to actually stand up to Ben.

It's been an absolute ordeal.

We wrote to Ben Edge and he was apologetic about both Steve and Jim

but did point out that he had many happy customers.

He was starting up a new business as a sole trader

and a large commercial customer failed to pay an invoice, which created the problems.

He now intends to pay all his outstanding bills.

There have been developments in the case of Libby,

the horse that went missing while on loan.

Her owner, Mandy Everley, is trying to recover the value of the horse from Denise,

who she says broke their loan agreement

by giving the horse away.

Mandy's been in touch. Denise has filed the defence.

In it, she accepts that she signed a loan agreement,

but she denies that she gave the horse away without permission.

She also denies having the horse put to sleep.

The case will now go to trial.

I'm going to meet them beforehand to give them some last-minute words of advice.

-Right, well, the day's come and you're due in court.

-Yes.

-How do you feel about that?

-We've waited a long time for this now

and we just want to get it over and done with and, hopefully, get the right result.

-You've submitted all your evidence.

-I have.

-You've done everything you were supposed to do.

-Yes.

-And you've not received anything from the other side.

-No, I haven't.

They may find they're in some difficulty

if they've not served their evidence in time.

Mandy sent all the paperwork that she'll rely on in the hearing

to both Denise and the court,

but Denise hasn't sent Mandy or the court anything to support her defence,

meaning she can't now produce something new in the hearing.

They're claiming £300 for the value of the horse

and £100 for her bridle, reins and tack.

That's a total of £400.

Both Rosie and Mandy have waited a long time

for the chance to ask Denise what happened to their horse.

This is their case so I'm not going into court with them,

but after the hearing, I meet up to find out how it went.

Right, Mandy, what happened? How did you get on?

We won. We're really, really pleased.

It's took a long time, but we're really pleased.

-You are pleased about the outcome.

-Yes.

The judge awarded damages totalling £485.

The judge said that it was clear that, erm,

Denise had given the pony away when she wasn't hers to give away.

He didn't attribute malice to her particularly,

-he said that she'd been duped or conned...

-I see.

..but that she'd breached the agreement and given the pony away

when she wasn't hers to give.

We wrote to Denise after the case but she declined to make any comment.

-Are you glad that you pursued it?

-Yes, we are now.

We're just really pleased with the outcome.

We can draw a line under it now and we feel we've done a little bit of justice for Libby.

Getting justice is what this is about.

For Mandy and Rosie, I don't think money was ever the issue,

but by going to court and having their case heard in front of a judge,

they feel they've got justice for their horse.

And Jim Scott feels he's got justice by standing up and making his claim.

They both won their cases and now they can move on.

It isn't easy going to court and there's no guarantee of success,

but the courts are there for us all, to give everyone the chance of justice,

just like Rosie, Mandy and Jim.

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