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You are watching X-Ray. On tonight's programme: | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
No money, no job. Why Andre is leading an invisible life. | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
Coral - the betting chain refusing to pay out on Nigel and Rob's big | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
win? And is this fraudster up to his old | :00:31. | :00:40. | |
tricks? Hello, we are back. | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
And we are ready to fight your battles. | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
First, we all complain about the tax man, but one family from Neath | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
has more reason than most to feel unhappy with the way HM Revenue and | :00:49. | :00:56. | |
Customs have treated them. Lucy has been investigating. | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
Can you remember what you were up to when you turned 20? | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
Oh, I can't remember that far back. Courting. Drinking, dancing as we | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
do. Sounds like fun to me! Most of us would agree that it is a | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
pretty special time having fun, growing up and finding your way in | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
the world. But one young man has had a dark | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
cloud hanging over him that has deprived of all those experiences. | :01:17. | :01:25. | |
Andre Gysler was born 20 years ago in Neath. He has happy memories of | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
the first 15 years growing up with his mum Helena Peters and his | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
little brother Tarryn. But since then something has been missing in | :01:32. | :01:33. | |
then something has been missing in Andre's life - something so vital | :01:33. | :01:41. | |
that it put his life on hold for years. | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
All his friends were coming back and forth, and saying they had | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
their national insurance numbers so I thought, "Well, where's Andre's?" | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
So when you first discovered that he didn't have his national | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
insurance number, were you worried? Not at all. I phoned HMRC, the | :01:52. | :02:01. | |
national insurance helpline. They said there was an issue with it and | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
they were going to send a form out. That form came. We were asked as | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
well at that time to provide a birth certificate. | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
Helena and Andre sent the forms back and waited for the national | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
insurance number to arrive. This little card may not look very | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
exciting. But without this all- important number it is almost | :02:20. | :02:27. | |
impossible to have a normal life. Most people get sent their number | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
from HMRC just before their 16th birthday. It is how the Government | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
keeps track of you in the social security system. Without your NI | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
number employers will not take you on. You can't claim benefits And | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
when you retire you will not be able to claim your pension. In fact | :02:40. | :02:49. | |
:02:50. | :02:53. | ||
it is so important that without one Andre has watched his future | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
disappear bit by bit. He had hoped to become an electrician but he had | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
to leave college because he could not get financial support. And when | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
he tried to get an apprenticeship or find work, no-one would take him | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
on because he wasn't part of the system. | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
Can't sign on, can't work cos I have no NI number. I managed to get | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
through my first year of the electrics course, but I couldn't | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
keep up with the finance on the second. So I had to drop out of | :03:19. | :03:29. | |
:03:29. | :03:32. | ||
college. The past five years have taken | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
their toll on Andre's health. Severely depressed to the point | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
where he has been self harming and attempted to cut his own wrists and | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
taken pills. It must be devastating for you to | :03:43. | :03:53. | |
see him like that? Andre and Helena have been trying | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
to sort this out for years. They have contacted HM Revenue and | :03:56. | :04:05. | |
Customs again and again, enlisting the help of their local MP and AM. | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
It has been going on since 2007, so that is five years. | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
How do you feel about the way that they have been dealing with it in | :04:12. | :04:14. | |
that time? They haven't been dealing with it | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
and frustration doesn't come close. It does not come close. It Is like | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
knocking your head against a brick wall and every time that wall gets | :04:21. | :04:30. | |
And it is not just Andre's life that has been affected by this | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
missing number. Financially, I am keeping three | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
people instead of keeping myself and my younger son which means my | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
younger son has had to go without. Emotionally devastating for my son | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
because, obviously, as a man of 20 he wants some social life which he | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
can't really have, which means I've got to provide money. Which again, | :04:45. | :04:52. | |
for him, is degrading to have to ask for that money. | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
So why has Andre been left waiting for so long to get his national | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
insurance number? Well, it could all stem back to this his birth | :04:58. | :05:07. | |
Andre was born in 1992, but a paternity dispute meant that a year | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
later his birth was re-registered with some new details. Helena says | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
she has been told that the information on Andre's certificate | :05:12. | :05:22. | |
doesn't match with her child But HMRC haven't just stuck to one | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
excuse for the delay. Helena says she has also been told it could | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
have been caused by a spelling mistake in Andre's name. At one | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
stage they even claimed it was because Andre came from Poland | :05:31. | :05:41. | |
:05:41. | :05:41. | ||
despite him being born in Neath to It is a terrible situation and it | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
has left Andre feeling like life is just passing him by. | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
I've got no life. All I do is sit around the house and look after the | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
dog, basically. Cos I can't do what a normal person my age would do, I | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
can't go out, I can't enjoy myself. A person can only take so much | :05:57. | :06:07. | |
:06:07. | :06:11. | ||
This summer Helena and Andre decided enough was enough, they | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
filed judicial review papers in Cardiff. | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
When we asked HMRC why, after years of waiting, Andre still hasn't been | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
issued with a national insurance number they seemed to have run out | :06:22. | :06:24. | |
of excuses. They said they are sorry for the problems Andre's had | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
and the inconvenience it has caused. But they couldn't comment on his | :06:28. | :06:35. | |
case because of tax-payer confidentiality. | :06:35. | :06:45. | |
:06:45. | :06:47. | ||
To say a man's life for 5 years is Shocking. | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
But there is now some good news. Since we got in touch with them, | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
HMRC have now issued Andre with a National Insurance number. | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
At last. The family are determined that they will still go through | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
with the Judicial Review process, but at least now they can begin to | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
make plans for Andre's future. It is not going to be easy for them, | :07:03. | :07:13. | |
:07:13. | :07:14. | ||
but we wish him all the best. feels like I have something to do | :07:15. | :07:21. | |
now. Yes, get a job. Exactly. And still to come tonight: | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
How low-energy light bulbs are making Mary ill. | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
And why won't Coral betting come clean on their rules? | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
Before that though, Rachel has an update on a rogue we featured | :07:29. | :07:37. | |
Flamboyant businessman Harby Panesar from the Vale of Glamorgan. | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
He ran Motorcar Elite, selling car warranties through garages across | :07:40. | :07:47. | |
Wales. He wasn't afraid to flaunt his | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
wealth, spending a reported �20,000 on his daughter's televised | :07:49. | :07:56. | |
birthday party. But for his customers, it was a | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
different story. When Beverley and Adrian Reynolds from Cwmcarn tried | :08:00. | :08:06. | |
to claim on their �700 policy, they discovered it wasn't valid. And | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
they weren't alone, hundreds of worthless warranties had been sold | :08:08. | :08:18. | |
:08:18. | :08:25. | ||
across the UK. We caught up with Harby back in February. | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
Have you nothing to say? At this point, no will stop you will answer | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
questions at that time? Not right now it is not the right time. | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
It wasn't just his customers he was conning. Back in 2008 he ran a | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
different company called Motorcare Warranties. One of his insurance | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
backers sued for more than �2 million. The judge banned him from | :08:46. | :08:53. | |
taking any money out of the firm but Harby ignored that. | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
In March, Harby Panesar was found in contempt of court for breaching | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
that ban. He should have gone to prison for 9 | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
months, but he appealed the sentence claiming that putting him | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
behind bars would have a devastating effect on his family. | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
At the appeal the judges ruled that suspending Panesar's sentence for | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
two years would be enough to satisfy the public interest and so | :09:11. | :09:21. | |
:09:21. | :09:23. | ||
Andrew Rafferty from Hirwaun was left �800 pounds out of pocket | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
after buying a Motorcare Warranty. He is not satisfied. | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
Obviously you feel let down by the British justice system, what do you | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
have to do to actually go to jail? For us people, we're hundreds of | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
pounds out of pocket. Harby's car warranty business may | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
have closed down in Wales, but X- Ray has discovered that he had set | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
his sights on a much bigger market. We found him listed as the Managing | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
Member of a Florida-based car warranty company Auto Care | :09:50. | :09:59. | |
Guarantees. Sounds familiar, The company is registered to | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
Harby's wife Caroline. The Panasar's have told us they did | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
set up a business, but they've now abandoned it. But according to the | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
Florida State Department the business is still active. | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
Very annoyed to think that he could go out now and start another | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
business off. Not only being let off a jail sentence, but going and | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
starting another business, doing exactly the same over in America. | :10:22. | :10:30. | |
Obviously somebody needs to do something about it. | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
We will be keeping an eye on that situation. Remember if there is | :10:34. | :10:35. | |
situation. Remember if there is anything you would like us to look | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
into, then get in touch. The phone into, then get in touch. The phone | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
lines are open or you can send us an e-mail. It would be great if you | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
could leave us a daytime phone number so that we can contact you | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
straightaway, and remember you can straightaway, and remember you can | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
follow us on twitter too! Now, since September, traditional | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
light bulbs like these are no longer being manufactured. Many of | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
the larger stores are no longer stocking them, but you can still | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
buy them in smaller shops, and stalls like this one in Cardiff | :11:01. | :11:11. | |
:11:11. | :11:19. | ||
market. How keen are people here? Most people. As a blind elderly, | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
some of the young people as well because there are brighter at an | :11:23. | :11:30. | |
energy-saving once. -- energy- saving ones. | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
So which do shoppers here in Cardiff market prefer? | :11:32. | :11:42. | |
:11:42. | :11:47. | ||
Don't like the light from the low- energy bulbs. You can't see to read. | :11:47. | :11:57. | |
:11:57. | :11:58. | ||
They're fantastic because the last and the do not take up much energy. | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
They brighten up later. You wait around half an hour for a full | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
brilliance. Do you use them at home? Yes. A | :12:07. | :12:17. | |
:12:17. | :12:19. | ||
heady you find them? They're all right. | :12:19. | :12:29. | |
:12:29. | :12:35. | ||
For some people they can cause serious problems though. | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
The incandescent bulb has served us well for more than 100 years, | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
lighting every room of our homes. Sadly, the granddad of the lighting | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
world is definitely showing his age. These new boys use up to 80% less | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
electricity to do the same job and last up to ten times longer. | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
They are meaner and leaner on the money front too. Switch all your | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
older style bulbs to low energy ones and you could save up to �55 a | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
year. So going green on lighting is good | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
news for the environment AND our pockets. But there are some people | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
reluctant to switch - and it's about more than nostalgia. | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
Around 30 to 40,000 people in the UK who have light-sensitive | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
conditions could be affected by the light emitted from low-energy bulbs, | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
the main problem is with this one, the compact fluorescent lamp. | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
Mary Hannah, from Treffgarne, near Haverfordwest has the auto-immune | :13:17. | :13:27. | |
:13:27. | :13:38. | ||
Well, I'm affected by the low energy bulbs very badly. They make | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
me rashy and achy all over and throbbing and just feeling | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
exhausted. Over half of lupus sufferers are | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
light sensitive. After being diagnosed in 2007, Mary quickly | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
realised new low energy bulbs in her home were triggering her | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
symptoms. I decided I'd have to change all | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
the bulbs and it made a huge difference. I felt much better. It | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
was a safe place that I could be where I could recover from feeling | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
achy and having palpatations and all the bad symptoms. | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
Mary's sensitive to sunlight, too, so can no longer help husband Tom | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
on the farm. He says seeing her suffer's been tough on the whole | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
family. You see her welling up, almost | :14:17. | :14:24. | |
crying, and you reliase then how much of a struggle it is. If you | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
ask someone to turn off a light they look at you as if you're mad | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
or trying to be awkward but you're just trying to make life a little | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
bit more bearable. And Mary's not alone. People with | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
other complaints, from skin conditions to migraine, have | :14:39. | :14:44. | |
reported feeling unwell after being near low energy bulbs. Several | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
charities have highlighted the issue and some want the UK | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
government to review the ban on manufacture so that old bulbs are | :14:49. | :14:55. | |
available to those affected. With traditional light bulbs | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
getting more difficult to find, Mary's got a back-up plan to ensure | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
she's always has them in her own home. | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
She is so sensitive to any UV light, she needs to wear head-to-toe | :15:06. | :15:08. | |
protection in order to show me where she keeps her precious | :15:08. | :15:14. | |
collection of old-style bulbs. Well, all together, I think I've | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
probably got about 500. Every time they say 100 w are being banned and | :15:19. | :15:27. | |
then 60s, I panic and buy a load before they run out. They are | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
getting more expensive and harder to get so it is a worry. | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
It just seems so unfair. Mary needs them and to be denied them just | :15:35. | :15:41. | |
seems cruel. So why do some low energy bulbs | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
affect people like Mary? Experts have looked into several | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
possibilities but the most significant is something consultant | :15:46. | :15:53. | |
medical physicist Dr Chris Edwards can explain. | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
These two lamps emit light in entirely different ways. The | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
incandescnet lamp uses a glowing filament to generate its light. The | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
compact flourescent tube uses ultra violet light which then excites the | :16:03. | :16:09. | |
white phospher. That means that some of that Ultra Violet light can | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
escape and cause problems to people who have sensitive skin. I've | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
analysed the output of these lamps and the UV output from this bare | :16:16. | :16:25. | |
compact flourescent tube is five times that of the incandescent tube. | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
As more and more homes and public buildings switch over to low energy | :16:29. | :16:35. | |
bulbs, Mary's daily life is becoming more limited. | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
This is a church I come to in our village and they've been very good | :16:38. | :16:48. | |
and put in the old-fashioned bulbs for me. Which means it's a safe | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
place I can come and just enjoy the service and not be badly affected. | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
How do you deal with life socially and going out to places? | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
I have a little bag of bulbs that I take with me to friends' houses and | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
to family so I can sort all their lights out so that I'm safe in | :17:04. | :17:06. | |
their houses. The UK Government insists low | :17:07. | :17:09. | |
energy bulbs aren't dangerous to the public and says there are | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
alternatives that light sensitive people can use. Compact | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
flourescents with an extra cover reduce UV while super-efficient | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
LEDs emit virtually no ultra violet lights. But Mary feels neither work | :17:19. | :17:29. | |
:17:29. | :17:31. | ||
for her. The prospect of running out of old bulbs is a big worry. | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
It'll be very lonely because I'll just be trapped here and life | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
wouldn't hardly be worth living if you can't get out and go see people. | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
I'd be a prisoner in my own home. Well, what are your thoughts? Are | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
you stockpiling bulbs? Or are you all in favour of low energy ones? | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
And did you know that these contain mercury, so it's really important | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
that they're recycled safely. We've put some more about that on our | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
wesite, so have a look if you need to know where to take them. | :17:59. | :18:08. | |
Next, Lucy's on the case. Richard Hicks is a lecturer in | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
plumbing, so when he splashed out hundreds on a new bathroom suite, | :18:12. | :18:20. | |
he expected it to be built to last. Our shower tray's cracked. It moves | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
under foot. Better Bathrooms won't reimburse us with the full cost of | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
replacement. Lucy, can you please help us? | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
I'm on the case The Hicks family spent �1,700 on a | :18:32. | :18:42. | |
:18:42. | :18:44. | ||
new suite from Better Bathrooms. Better Bathrooms? Not from what | :18:44. | :18:51. | |
I've heard. Hi, Richard, how are you? Nice to | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
see you. Hi, Lucy, | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
Richard, let's see what we can do about this shower of yours. Let's | :18:57. | :19:07. | |
:19:07. | :19:09. | ||
go and take a look at this shower. Guessing your bathroom read on was | :19:09. | :19:15. | |
a very important part of preparing your retirement. Yes. Why did you | :19:15. | :19:21. | |
want to go with better bathrooms? It was affordable. Let's take a | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
look at the Shah. I'll follow you up. This is the bathroom. Now, the | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
bathroom is looking lovely. Let's take a look at this crack. I can | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
see it straight away already. Yeah, yeah, it's quite obvious | :19:32. | :19:38. | |
It is. Is it getting worse? Yes, it is. | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
And what's the problem with the sponginess of the shower tray? | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
What you'll find, you can't see it very much now, but once you put | :19:45. | :19:52. | |
warm water on, that will lift up quite considerably. | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
So, the hot water's been running and what is the.. Oh, gosh! I can | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
see a really big difference, actually. That's gone very springy | :19:58. | :20:08. | |
:20:08. | :20:08. | ||
now, hasn't it? Yeah. Quite a big area. | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
It's unnerving. If you're taking a shower you can see it move. It | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
could possibly cause an injury. Richard knows a thing or two about | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
bathrooms because of his job. He knew the problem wasn't caused by | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
anything he'd done in fitting it. Richard, with your job, you're a | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
lecturer in plumbing. How does it make you feel when you see work | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
like this and a product like this? I'm very disappointed. It's not a | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
fault in the installation, it's a fault in manufacture, that's quite | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
apparent. Better Bathrooms agreed there was a | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
problem and told Richard they would replace the shower tray. They asked | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
him to get a quote but when Richard told them that because the bathroom | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
was quite small, the work was harder to do and would cost �375, | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
Better Bathrooms started to haggle. They got back to me to say they | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
were only prepared to pay �175. Unhappy with that, I gave them a | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
sort of account of what needed to be done, the appliances to be | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
removed so that the shower tray could be replaced. They've upped | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
their offer to �250 but it was still �125 short of the full amount | :21:02. | :21:11. | |
of �375 and I'm very concerned that I'm expected to meet that cost. | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
So, Richard, what would you like me to do? | :21:13. | :21:20. | |
I would really like you to recover the full coast of �375. | :21:20. | :21:22. | |
I'm on the case. Well, when we got in touch with | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
Better Bathrooms, incredibly, they were still disputing that the work | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
would cost �375. They told us claims like this are often | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
overstated. That seems a bit rich, given that Richard had offered to | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
get another quote for them and had explained that the size of the | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
bathroom made it more difficult and expensive to refit the shower tray. | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
Well, the good news, after we'd contacted them and having reviewed | :21:44. | :21:50. | |
the case, Better Bathrooms has now agreed to pay up. | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
Hi, Lucy. The plumber is on his way. We're sure to have a new shower | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
tray fitted and it's all down to your hard work. Thank you very much. | :22:00. | :22:07. | |
Job done! Now, Rachel's been looking at the | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
secretive rules that determine whether your bet on the gee gees is | :22:10. | :22:19. | |
valid. The beauty and the thrill of horse | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
racing. Just watching these beautiful creatures even on the | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
training gallops in Ebbw Vale is incredibly exciting. So it's no | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
surprise whatsoever that they are at the centre of a huge spectator | :22:31. | :22:41. | |
:22:41. | :22:48. | ||
But are fans being treated fairly Brothers Rob and Nigel McBurney | :22:48. | :22:55. | |
don't think so. They come from a racing mad family in Bargoed. | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
My father. He used to bet all the time and when he used to do a | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
little flutter and I would have a go and we'd carry on just like that. | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
So, was it a lot of money? No, just small money - fivers, | :23:09. | :23:16. | |
twenty pence bets, pound each way accumulator, that type of thing. | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
Last year, their dad Bob died. A few weeks later, his widow decided | :23:21. | :23:27. | |
to place a bet on four of his favourite horses. Rob took the | :23:27. | :23:33. | |
complex �5 stake to the family bookmaker, Coral in Bargoed. | :23:33. | :23:39. | |
So, how much did you stand to win on this �5 bet? | :23:39. | :23:45. | |
�68,000. �68,000? On �5? | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
Yes, because a lot of the horses were high prices. | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
The key to the bet was 40-1 outsider Bold Ring. It won the | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
first race. In the following two races, they also had winners. Then | :23:57. | :24:03. | |
there was just one more to go. We just sat there all quiet looking | :24:03. | :24:11. | |
at the teletext and it was her horse. She was jumping for joy. | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
Never seen her like that. Rob headed to Coral to pick up his | :24:16. | :24:22. | |
mother's winnings - �68,000. Handed the slip in and said, "Could | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
you tell me what that is?" and the cashier said it is two thousand | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
something. I said, "No, it is a lot more than that". | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
But he was told it wasn't. Because he'd placed the big 40-1 bet on the | :24:36. | :24:43. | |
first race in the accumulator too late and therefore it didn't count. | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
It was devastating news when they said it was void. It was heart | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
sinking for me because I put the bet on and I had to go to the house | :24:51. | :24:59. | |
and break the news. The family had become victims of | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
Coral's late bets rule. The late bets rule is designed to | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
stop cheating. Bookies often allow you to put money on a horse after a | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
race has started but obviously it wouldn't be fair to bet on a | :25:12. | :25:18. | |
winning horse just as it's about to cross the line. | :25:18. | :25:24. | |
We've obtained a copy of the race. And 53 seconds after the start when | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
Robbie placed his bet, Bold Ring is in 8th place, not looking like a | :25:28. | :25:38. | |
:25:38. | :25:44. | ||
winner at all. Until a turn of When they actually did look into it | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
after three or four weeks, they got back and said we couldn't find | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
anything untoward about what you'd done. You were just a little bit | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
too late. Which I think is a bit harsh lately. | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
Rob has appealed to the betting arbitration body IBAS. They've | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
investiagated, but they too say that he broke the late bets rule. | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
But what exactly are the rules? They seems to vary from bookie to | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
bookie. Here at Ladbrokes, the terms and | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
conditions clearly state you can't bet more than 30 seconds after the | :26:17. | :26:24. | |
start of a race. It's a clear and straightforward system. | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
But in other betting shops, the rules aren't so clear. | :26:28. | :26:30. | |
This is the Coral betting shop where the McBuyrney's placed their | :26:30. | :26:37. | |
bet. And their terms and conditions say something quite different. | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
It says a that a "no more bets time will be automatically generated by | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
their electronic EPOS system". But how? There is no clue as to | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
whether that is three seconds into a race or 53 seconds. They just | :26:49. | :26:58. | |
don't say how they work it out. I've come to Welshpool to meet one | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
race-lover who's outraged by this system. Former MP, lawyer and | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
racehorse owner Delwyn Williams has been helping the McBurneys fight | :27:03. | :27:11. | |
their case. He's been looking at the late-bets rule. | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
The Coral's punter doesn't have full knowledge of the contractual | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
terms he is going to face when he makes a bet. | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
So how do you think the system should work then? | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
I think they should clearly state in their rules and in their offices | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
what the time limits for placing bets are. | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
He believes Coral should be paying out to the McBurneys. | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
His father had bet with Corals for most of his life in that betting | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
shop in Bargoed. Now Coral's say no. We were happy to take your money | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
during your lifetime but we are not hapy to pay your widow and son what | :27:45. | :27:52. | |
most people in the public arena would say is owing to them. | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
Sadly for the McBurney family, Coral are sticking to their guns. | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
They still say they'll only pay out the �2,000 won on the later races, | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
rather than the �68,000 the family believe they've won. And they won't | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
tell us how they work out exactly when they stop taking money on a | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
race or why they don't stop taking bets once the deadline's passed. | :28:08. | :28:15. | |
Nigel and Rob are now considering legal action. We'll let you know | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
how they get on. That's just about it for this week. | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
Remember, if you've ever fallen foul of a bookies rules... | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
Or you're struggling to get a company to listen to you... | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
We're here to help. You can give us a call on 03703 334 | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
334. Or email us. | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
Next week, the shocking story of a BMW which just wouldn't stop | :28:34. | :28:37. |