Episode 13 See Hear

how it is meant to help the economy. The Bank of England electronically

creates new money and passes that to commercial banks and other

institutions. In return, they had over financial assets to the bank.

The institutions spend the money on things like shares, property and

funding companies, which helps to create jobs. That in theory helps

to stimulate growth. We have seen a seismic shift in the Bank of

England today from the minutes. One month ago it looked like they would

not do any more quantitative easing, putting more money into the economy

to kick-start it. But today, it looks like they are more willing.

Whatever they do, the only alternative is for the government

to open its cheque book. The Chancellor is under pressure to

come up with new policies. One idea is borrowing more money short-term

to boost the economy. That argument is heard around Westminster. But

the problem is that may not go down well in the city and other

financial markets. The Chancellor may be diluting the deficit

reduction plan and that will cause concern and make it more expensive

for the government to borrow. So it is a dilemma for the Chancellor as

he decides how to use the nation's credit-card with the long-term aim

of bringing down debt. Two Americans who were held for

more than two years in Iran and accused of spying have been freed.

Shame -- Shane Bauer and Josh Fattal were freed. They insist they

were hikers who acts suddenly crossed the border.

Significant new reserves of Shell Gas have been found near Lancashire.

-- shale gas. But the technique for extracting the gas is controversial.

Environment groups say the process causes chemical pollution. But the

company involved a says it will pose no threat.

A British couple have been rescued from the depths of the Amazon

rainforest, thanks to the help of coastguards who found them 6,000

miles away. Several hours after the campervan fell into a ravine, they

managed to contact relatives at home. The couple were travelling

around Latin America for five years and tonight they spoke to the BBC.

We are both OK. We are quite healthy, not injured, we went to

the hospital and had X-rays. They were so kind. They picked us up by

helicopter. A wonderful service. it possible for you to describe

what the last 48 hours have been like? We passed overnight in the

jungle. One or two areas look dicey. We came across this one bridge that

looked perfect. As we started to cross it, it just crushed and went

down into the ravine. It must have been terrifying? It was. But nobody

was hurt. A couple of bruises, that's all. We then phoned Lesley's

sister. They contacted the coastguards of England. I do not

know what happened. But we got picked up by a military helicopter.

A Marine helicopter. We are now honorary Marines. And Lesley, how

are you? OK. We climbed out of a window and climbed up a ravine. We

slept on the road. That was underneath a tarpaulin last night.

But we are in a hotel now. We are relaxed and feel better. What has

it been like, the last day or two? It has been very unpleasant. We

have been living in the same clothes, we were not able to wash,

we had drinks down in the trucks and we had to climb down the ravine

to get them. That was exhausting. Sleeping last night was not present

under the tarpaulin. We did not have much space and lots of weird

noises. There are insects and things around. Your imagination

tends to run riot if you are not careful. So we did not sleep very

well. It is a hot city. We are both very sad about the vehicle. Are you

feeling OK? Pardon? Are you feeling OK in yourself and physically, are

you OK? Physically, to be perfectly honest, when we went off the bridge

I thought that was it. And I was on the side that actually slid down.

My window was open. But it is a very solid truck. I do not know how

we managed to not sustain any injuries. There we are, they can

still laugh about it. Now for a look at tomorrow's

newspapers. This is inside the Times. The same story. They will

delighted we have used this photograph of them. -- they will be

delighted. This story is inevitably throughout the newspapers.

Hospitals crippled by Private Finance Initiative schemes. An

attack on Labour's funding. The Health Secretary suggesting many of

the trusts that are paying the private companies for the buildings

they built a close to being crippled. And on a similar theme,

New Labour spending. There will perhaps be formally scrapping that

scheme but we all thought it was scrapped already.

New nurses not having the right skills.

Nick Clegg's wife on some of the front pages.

Murdoch executives told of hacking evidence in 2006, years before they

originally said. And Julian Assange releasing an

unauthorised autobiography. It may sound like a contradiction. He

spoke to a ghost writer and had a contract. He decided he did not

want the men was published but the publisher has gone away at -- gone

ahead with it. A Freedom of Information story. The

Financial Times is running with that for a couple of days.

And finally, a story on two young boys participating in Kate fighting.

Adults were then watching them. -- cage fighting. That is the

morning's front pages. And now for morning's front pages. And now for

The weather is warming up for the start of the weekend. Today is

looking mainly dry with bright or sunny spells. Still heavy showers

in the far west of Scotland. They will ease queueing today as will

the winds. Shelter in eastern Scotland. -- he's doing it the day.

Elsewhere, mainly dry with bright and sunny spells. It will cloud in

Northern Ireland. Temperatures 16- 19 degrees. Possibly 20 degrees.

Through Thursday evening, it will stay fine but through the north-

west it will cloud over and there will be outbreaks of rain. The rain

that will ease in Northern Ireland by the afternoon. But for many

across England and Wales, in other dry day. Fairly sunny and

temperatures up to the high teens and low 20s. Becoming even warm-up

by Saturday. More details on our President Obama warns there will be

no shortcut to peace. He says Palestinian demands must be heard.

Dramatic activity is intensifying ahead of a Palestinian bid for full

UN membership. Nicol and -- Nicolas Sarkozy called

for a compromise. He warned a US veto will prompt a new cycle of

violence. The Deputy Prime Minister Nick

Clegg has given a sober assessment of the UK economy, ending the Lib

Dem conference in Birmingham. He said being in government is not

easy and described the party's U- turn on university fees as heart-

wrenching. There has been a sharp rise in

government borrowing. Almost �16 billion was borrowed last month, �2

billion more than the year before. But the Treasury says overall

borrowing is down. A convicted killer in the US, Troy

Davis, was due to be executed half an hour ago. It is thought there

has been a delay but no stay of execution despite several last

Now it is time for HARDtalk. Should the British police be

learning lessons from the crime fighting methods used on the mean

streets of Los Angeles and New York City? British Prime Minister David

Cameron evidently thinks so. For advice on fighting gang crime he's

turned to Bill Bratton, the so- called supercop who dramatically

cut crime in America's biggest cities. Bill Bratton was even

mooted as a possible candidate to run London's metropolitan force.

Can US-style policing work in the Bill Bratton, welcome to HARDtalk.

You have 40 years of experience in policing. Are you firmly convinced

that the ideas you have to offer have universal application? That

they are as relevant in London as they are in New York City?

certainly do. I have seen first- hand how some of those ideas have

worked in other places around the world. How many ideas which were

formulated in Britain have worked in my country. Picking up on that

notion that they are applicable - what has David Cameron asked you to

do? Very specifically to participate in a conference that is

now being formed for the 12th of October and the 13th, to be held in

London with several dozen experts from Great Britain, the United

States and other places, to talk about gang violence, how to reduce

it, and how to prevent it from happening. Your role has been

characterised as an adviser. Would that be fair? Not so much an

adviser to the Prime Minister himself, but to the Home Office.

The Home Office, as you know in your country, is responsible for

public safety. As people around the world are well aware - we have had

a serious public order issue in recent weeks in the UK. In early

August we saw dramatic and shocking scenes of violence on our streets.

Have you spoken to Mr Cameron personally since those riots?

briefly, at which time he extended the invitation to join the

conference which is now on the calendar. Do you have any concern

that the idea that you will come - you will participate in this

conference, you will put your ideas into the mix - that has attracted

some suspicion, indeed, irritation, from senior police officers in the

United Kingdom? That is unfortunate. My relationship with my

counterparts in the British police service is exemplary. I received my

CBE from the British Queen for furthering relationships between my

police service and British police services. I think that is

unfortunate. We have been working closely together for many decades

now. That relationship will move forward in a very co-operative

manner. In a sense, that is my point. Relationships have been

forged over many years, but one of those top cops, Sir Hugh Orde, said

that the idea of reaching across the Atlantic for policing ideas was,

to use his words, stupid. He told me on the programme the other day

that the British model of policing is fundamentally different from the

American one. He has his opinion and I have mine - I don't think

there are significant differences. The goal of both police services is

to reduce crime. I think in the United States, unfortunately,

because of our history of gun- related violence, the violence we

experience is, unfortunately for us, more significant than that which

you experience in the British Isles. That is our failing. The majority

of your police officers voluntarily and willingly go about their duties

unarmed. A circumstance that could not be, unfortunately, tolerated in

my country. I think we have more similarities than differences. I

think we have a lot to learn from each other's experiences. In

particular the issue of gangs. The issue which I have been asked to

speak to. My successor in the LAPD has received an invitation as well.

The idea is to share what we know in terms of what has worked and

what has not worked. I think our experience with gangs is a much

longer experience in terms of their history that we have. Isn't the

point really about what has not worked? There are about 400 gangs

in Los Angeles - many of them very heavily armed. The profound problem

you have with that culture - you presenting a representative

analysis in the UK - that is a bit of a stretch. Let's look at it in

medical terms. Could you say that doctors in the British Isles would

not want to talk to their colleagues about diseases that have

similarities and understand how we are beginning to effectively deal

with our disease which is more serious but has many similarities?

Would you not want to talk with somebody who had 400 patients to

work on? In my case, 400 gangs - rather than speaking with someone

who has had no patients at all. I think you want to go where problems

are more serious before they become more serious in your own domain to

see how you might prevent those problems from becoming more serious.

I think there is a lot to be shared. It just strikes me that your

mindset might be rather different from those people at the top of

policing in the UK. You were quoted - you watched the riots unfold on

your television and you were quoted afterwards as saying of the English

riots... "young people have been emboldened by cautious police

tactics and lenient sentencing". Are you suggesting British police

have got it wrong - that they are too soft? That is a decision you

will have to make. In terms of the United States and the unfortunate

experience we have had with our riots, in Los Angeles in the early

1990s - that took in excess of 50 lives - a lot of gun-related

violence. The circumstances I was commenting on was that there had

been a delayed police response. No response to some of what was

occurring in the early stages. That was a mistake there was made in Los

Angeles in the 1990s that contributed significantly to that

riot getting out of control. In policing you do not give up

territory - as quickly as possible you begin with appropriate levels

of force. You have talked about needing to apply "a doctrine of

escalating force". You have also said that you would like the

criminal element to fear the police. These are comments which Hugh Orde

said... Successful policing is when the public do not fear the police.

It is when the public trust the cops, not fear them.... The new

head of the Metropolitan Police is using exactly my language - that

the criminal element among the public need to be in fear, while

the vast majority of the law abiding public need to respect and

be respected by the police. We can mince words, if you want, but again,

I would look to the leadership of the Metropolitan Police and his

opening comments at the time of his appointment - he basically said the

same thing I said. Criminals need to fear the police, not fear

brutality or being abused but fear that if they violate a law, if they

violate an ordnance that the police will, within their powers, do

something to control that behaviour and change that behaviour. They

will. Lawfully, compassionately and consistently. In rich

neighbourhoods and poor neighbourhoods. But when you talk

about having more arrows in the quiver, as you did - it points to

your belief that the British police, who traditionally have not armed

themselves, should use different kinds of weapons - whether that be

rubber bullets, water cannon, tasers, or routinely arming

themselves with guns. What do you think? I made no comment to that. I

am very admiring of the British police services, particularly their

rank and file who have consistently voted to not arm themselves,

believing that in doing so they would escalate acts of criminality

directed against them. They are to be very admired in that they choose

to limit the weaponry that they carry and are equipped with.

Decisions as to weaponry and non- lethal weapons - they are up to

each individual police force, the same as in the United States. In my

country, some police forces do not carry tasers, some will not used

rubber bullets or water cannons. I have not advocated any type of

weapon, nor would I. That is ultimately up to the British

services themselves. They do have an obligation to protect the

members of the force who put themselves in harm's way and to

equip them appropriately to respond to forces directed against them. We

do not expect a police officer who is confronted with a knife to not

have a superior weapon to address that. That is why, unfortunately

for you over the years, more and more of your police have been

equipped with weaponry. I would like to discuss your record in New

York and Los Angeles in a little bit. Your success in bringing down

the crime rate has won you a lot of admirers around the world. I have

mentioned the role you will play in this upcoming conference at the

request of David Cameron. It is reported that David Cameron and

those at Number Ten Downing Street wanted your name in the frame for

the Metropolitan Chief Constable - the top policing job in the UK -

running London's police service. Did they ask you to apply? He did

not. I think there has been a lot of speculation, all stemming from a

comment he made while addressing the Murdoch scandal. He said that

now it might be an appropriate time to look beyond our shores in terms

of expertise in police issues. I don't think he ever used my name.

He and I have never had a conversation about the issue of

leadership of the Metropolitan Would you have liked the job?

have made it quite clear that if the position were open and

available to outsiders such as myself that it would certainly be a

position I would certainly entertain applying for. It is the

most prestigious police position in the world of democratic policing

because of the duality of its responsibilities - not only does it

have local, City of London policing responsibilities, it has

significant responsibility for national security, particularly

against terrorism. I wonder what you made of it, when it was being

discussed that you were a candidate. The Home Secretary seemed to think

it was not a good idea and then said any candidate has to be a

British resident. It was disappointing in that I would have

liked the opportunity, certainly. I have spent most of my career in

policing. Recent years, in the private sector and enjoying that

but the temptation of London, a city that I love, a country that I

love, a police service that I respect and is respected around the

world, I would be lying, deceiving you if I were to profess that I

would not have been interested. The decision, restricting it to British

citizens, that is her responsibility. There was some

discussion as to whether that was a requirement that it be a British

citizen. It was never clarified in any of the news accounts I saw. In

terms of the decision... I don't question that. It seems it takes an

enormous amount of self confidence to think you could come into the

city and learn the culture, the political environment. Clearly you

are not short of self-confidence. am not short of self-confidence at

all. Coming in to New York from Boston, to Los Angeles from New

York - three very different cities, sets of issues, departments.

idea of a challenge is something I respond to, I think I have

responded to well. If I may But it's not likely to happen.

know you still observe things closely. It strikes me that right

now there is a challenge facing the British police force, England and

Wales particularly - 20% cuts in funding for the police. 16,000

police officers will lose their jobs. Surveys suggest that 86% of

the police think it will have a damaging effect on levels of crime.

From your experience in big city policing in the United States, if

you cut the numbers you have a problem, don't you? You have a

problem. We are experiencing that in the United States. In New Jersey

they are going to lay off one-third of the police department, it was

reported. In the city of New York the police force has been cut by

7,000 police officers in the last seven, eight years. Crime continues

to down in this city. In the city I just left two years ago, Los

Angeles - we were able to increase the police force from 9,000 to

10,000, as a result of cuts and budget assessment it is down

another 10%. In 2002 there was a larger force and crime rate. There

are fewer police officers on the street now because they are taking

time off rather than overtime. The issues you are about to face in

many instances are being phased in the United States. We are still

benefiting from the residual impact of all that was led in the 1990s

and the investment that was made in the 1990s. -- learned in the 1990s.

We will wait to see if the cuts do have an impact. The country is much

safer than the 1990s and in your country, if the cuts do occur - and

cuts are always regrettable - you're going to have to face up to

it. Face a crisis and the challenges. It is not just about

cuts. The focus is on the government's determination to bring