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In September 2011, Bangor barley farmer Alan Graham hit headlines | 0:00:03 | 0:00:09 | |
all over the world when he asked the international superstar Rihanna | 0:00:09 | 0:00:13 | |
to leave his field. | 0:00:13 | 0:00:15 | |
What was happening was not appropriate | 0:00:15 | 0:00:17 | |
and I told them it would have to stop. | 0:00:17 | 0:00:20 | |
She was shooting a video - We Found Love - which went on | 0:00:20 | 0:00:23 | |
to become a massive hit across the world. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:26 | |
Some elements of the media tried to make me out | 0:00:27 | 0:00:30 | |
as some grumpy old man who didn't allow people to have a bit of fun, | 0:00:30 | 0:00:33 | |
but I do believe there was a line crossed which was unacceptable. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:36 | |
The video's success online meant that its sexual content, | 0:00:36 | 0:00:40 | |
violence and drug-taking was viewed by millions, including children. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:44 | |
Are these the sort of images we should be showing our kids? | 0:00:44 | 0:00:48 | |
Alan Graham thinks not. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:49 | |
Some of these pop videos are simply porn to music. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:53 | |
Alan has spent the last year talking to people in the music industry, | 0:00:55 | 0:00:59 | |
psychologists and other experts to see if there's anything | 0:00:59 | 0:01:03 | |
can be done to clean up pop... | 0:01:03 | 0:01:05 | |
before it's too late. | 0:01:05 | 0:01:07 | |
Alan Graham is many things - a farmer from a long line of farmers, | 0:01:19 | 0:01:25 | |
a committed Christian, a DUP councillor, | 0:01:25 | 0:01:29 | |
a father and a grandfather. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:31 | |
He has gone about his duties quietly | 0:01:31 | 0:01:33 | |
and diligently for over half a century. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:36 | |
But in late 2011, his world was turned upside down. | 0:01:36 | 0:01:42 | |
She was wearing a bikini and jeans. | 0:01:42 | 0:01:44 | |
I made absolutely no complaint about that whatsoever. | 0:01:44 | 0:01:47 | |
But as the story goes on, the filming moved to a field away | 0:01:47 | 0:01:51 | |
from the road and in that field I realised that Rihanna had taken | 0:01:51 | 0:01:56 | |
the top half of her clothing off and that's the stage that I decided | 0:01:56 | 0:02:00 | |
I couldn't allow it to continue. | 0:02:00 | 0:02:03 | |
On her way out, Rihanna came over to speak to Alan. | 0:02:03 | 0:02:07 | |
She was very sympathetic to the standpoint I had. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:11 | |
She was very gracious, very courteous, very respectful | 0:02:11 | 0:02:14 | |
and we shook hands maybe four or five times | 0:02:14 | 0:02:17 | |
and we parted company on the best of terms. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
It may have been amicable, | 0:02:20 | 0:02:22 | |
but very soon the press got hold of the story. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
Alan became headline news. | 0:02:25 | 0:02:27 | |
Also on the programme, | 0:02:27 | 0:02:28 | |
how Rihanna's beat in the wheat was all too much | 0:02:28 | 0:02:32 | |
for a County Down farmer. | 0:02:32 | 0:02:33 | |
This is the biggest thing to hit town so far - Rihanna. | 0:02:33 | 0:02:38 | |
DUP councillor Alan Graham hit headlines around the world | 0:02:38 | 0:02:41 | |
when he told her off for stripping in his barley field. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:44 | |
Many thought that Alan had overreacted. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:48 | |
I think he's gone a bit too far. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:49 | |
He could have given a bit of leeway with her being a big star. | 0:02:49 | 0:02:52 | |
Just because she took her clothes off! | 0:02:52 | 0:02:54 | |
I don't think so, no. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:55 | |
This day and age, there's a lot worse going on in the streets. | 0:02:55 | 0:02:57 | |
He shouldn't have done it cos now she's not gonna come back here. And I love her. | 0:02:57 | 0:03:01 | |
But after a first wave of hostile news reports, | 0:03:01 | 0:03:05 | |
the tide began to turn. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:07 | |
When I saw that on the front of the Telegraph that Thursday, | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
it gave me a certain amount of encouragement. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:13 | |
Dannii Minogue was one of many celebrities | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
who publicly voiced support for Alan's point of view. | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
Very soon, the press followed suit. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:22 | |
Then as the week went on they seemed to swing round to my point of view. | 0:03:22 | 0:03:26 | |
I think they realised that public opinion was fairly much on my side. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:32 | |
Suddenly, Alan started getting letters out of the blue. | 0:03:32 | 0:03:36 | |
This one here arrived. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:38 | |
"Mr Alan Graham, (Rihanna shoot), Farmer Clandeboye, near Bangor." | 0:03:38 | 0:03:42 | |
"Mr Alan Graham, (Farmer, Rihanna's Field) | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
"near Bangor, Northern Ireland." | 0:03:45 | 0:03:47 | |
The postmen must have had a laugh that week. | 0:03:47 | 0:03:49 | |
"Dear Mr Graham, just a short note to offer our support to you | 0:03:49 | 0:03:52 | |
"for the stand you made when you asked Rihanna to leave your field." | 0:03:52 | 0:03:57 | |
Oh, here's another one. "You are heroic in our eyes. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
"You are a treasure." Hope my wife read this. "Everyone loves you. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
"The world needs you." | 0:04:05 | 0:04:07 | |
That's what's... that's what's so... We had a laugh at that, you know. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:11 | |
It wasn't long before the finished video was released. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
When Alan saw it, he was horrified. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
And he quickly realised that the adult content was far from unique. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
SONG: "Love The Way You Lie" | 0:04:20 | 0:04:22 | |
My wife and I were alarmed by some of the things we were seeing. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:26 | |
Particularly because of the availability of all this material | 0:04:26 | 0:04:32 | |
to very young children. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:33 | |
So Alan's decided to make a more public stand. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:38 | |
The question for me is, "Can anything be done to stop what is happening, | 0:04:38 | 0:04:42 | |
"or to put the breaks on it to some extent?" | 0:04:42 | 0:04:45 | |
It seems to have increased greatly over the last number of years | 0:04:45 | 0:04:49 | |
and can there be a coming together of parents, those in the media | 0:04:49 | 0:04:53 | |
industry, to try and stop it for the sake, at least, of young people? | 0:04:53 | 0:04:58 | |
Alan's first stop is Dublin to meet someone who, like himself, | 0:05:00 | 0:05:04 | |
comes from a farming background, | 0:05:04 | 0:05:06 | |
but one whose career has taken a completely different turn. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:11 | |
Did you hear about the Rihanna incident in September? | 0:05:11 | 0:05:14 | |
I did. I heard about this grumpy farmer | 0:05:14 | 0:05:17 | |
in the north of Ireland that | 0:05:17 | 0:05:19 | |
didn't want this shoot to go ahead. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:21 | |
You know, but now I'm looking at it from a totally different angle. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:25 | |
I think you were right to take a stand. I think you're brave. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:28 | |
Some people criticised me. | 0:05:28 | 0:05:29 | |
Some people called me names that I couldn't repeat. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:32 | |
But the vast majority of the emails, | 0:05:32 | 0:05:36 | |
the letters, were all supporting what I had done. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
Can we do anything about it? | 0:05:39 | 0:05:41 | |
The honest answer, I think, is no, because I think it's driven by | 0:05:41 | 0:05:45 | |
the record company bosses | 0:05:45 | 0:05:47 | |
and they're in control and they... Sex sells. | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
Louis is in little doubt that the most offensive videos | 0:05:54 | 0:05:57 | |
tend to come from the States. | 0:05:57 | 0:05:59 | |
I think that in America, mainly, a lot of the R & B, the hip-hop acts, | 0:05:59 | 0:06:03 | |
all the videos are very, very sexual. | 0:06:03 | 0:06:06 | |
They always have maybe masses of girls around a swimming pool | 0:06:06 | 0:06:10 | |
in bikinis, and it's the way they do things in America. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:13 | |
Everyone wants to have the most controversial video on MTV, | 0:06:13 | 0:06:16 | |
they think this is the way to do it. | 0:06:16 | 0:06:18 | |
"Let's get more and more and more raunchy." | 0:06:18 | 0:06:21 | |
And it's their way of life. | 0:06:21 | 0:06:22 | |
It's the R & B, the hip-hop guys' way of life. | 0:06:22 | 0:06:24 | |
I mean, a lot of these videos you can be talking about three | 0:06:24 | 0:06:28 | |
or four million dollars to make a video like this, | 0:06:28 | 0:06:31 | |
and most of the times I've been involved in videos, the artist | 0:06:31 | 0:06:35 | |
pays 50% and the record company pays 50%. It's a lot of money that they | 0:06:35 | 0:06:40 | |
have to recoup from sales, but then if they make the raunchy video | 0:06:40 | 0:06:43 | |
and it's controversial and it's sexual and it's on TV worldwide, | 0:06:43 | 0:06:48 | |
everyone wins. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:49 | |
But that's the way the business is. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:51 | |
Well, I must say that in my encounter with Rihanna, | 0:06:51 | 0:06:55 | |
she was very, very respectful and very mannerly towards me. | 0:06:55 | 0:06:58 | |
-That's good. -And is it not possible that somebody's pushing her | 0:06:58 | 0:07:02 | |
or exploiting her or encouraging her along a certain line? | 0:07:02 | 0:07:05 | |
As far as I'm concerned, Rihanna calls all the shots on these things | 0:07:05 | 0:07:09 | |
and she wanted to be portrayed like this. The buck stops with Rihanna. | 0:07:09 | 0:07:13 | |
To be really honest with you, | 0:07:15 | 0:07:17 | |
when I heard about this I thought, "Who is this grumpy old man? | 0:07:17 | 0:07:20 | |
"Why didn't he just take the fee and go away?" | 0:07:20 | 0:07:23 | |
But then the more I read about it, I thought, | 0:07:23 | 0:07:25 | |
"This man believes in what he's doing." | 0:07:25 | 0:07:28 | |
He didn't want the money. He's got very old-fashioned strong believes. | 0:07:28 | 0:07:31 | |
They're good beliefs and they're his beliefs, | 0:07:31 | 0:07:34 | |
and I think he's got a really good point. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:36 | |
The only problem is, I don't know how he's going to succeed in this | 0:07:36 | 0:07:40 | |
business today - nothing's going to change this business. | 0:07:40 | 0:07:43 | |
There's too many powerful people involved in it, | 0:07:43 | 0:07:45 | |
too much money being made. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:47 | |
Taking on board Louis' belief that the most offensive videos originate | 0:07:47 | 0:07:51 | |
in the US hip-hop community, Alan has travelled to London. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:55 | |
He's at a sold-out event at the Barbican Centre to try and get | 0:08:00 | 0:08:04 | |
a handle on a scene that he knows little about. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:07 | |
"Hip-Hop On Trial" has attracted | 0:08:07 | 0:08:09 | |
an impressive panel of musicians, | 0:08:09 | 0:08:11 | |
academics and politicians | 0:08:11 | 0:08:13 | |
to debate the question - | 0:08:13 | 0:08:15 | |
is hip-hop a force for good? | 0:08:15 | 0:08:17 | |
I think hip-hop on one level exposes light in dark places... | 0:08:19 | 0:08:23 | |
Most surprising to Alan is the attitude of the veteran black | 0:08:24 | 0:08:27 | |
activist, the Reverend Jesse Jackson. | 0:08:27 | 0:08:30 | |
He firmly believes that after centuries of oppression, | 0:08:30 | 0:08:33 | |
black people are entitled to express themselves any way they like. | 0:08:33 | 0:08:37 | |
What hip-hop says to us is "I am somebody. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:41 | |
"I matter, and nobody can break my spirit." | 0:08:41 | 0:08:44 | |
It is that spirit-breaking dynamic that has captured the world | 0:08:44 | 0:08:48 | |
and so hip-hop is a spirit. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:50 | |
It is an occupying spirit that cannot be stopped. | 0:08:50 | 0:08:53 | |
Alan managed to grab the Reverend Jackson for a few seconds | 0:08:54 | 0:08:58 | |
after the debate. | 0:08:58 | 0:08:59 | |
Do you have any concern of the effects on young people | 0:08:59 | 0:09:04 | |
of quite overt sexual behaviour? | 0:09:04 | 0:09:07 | |
The only reason I don't, quote unquote, | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
is I see women fighting back. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:12 | |
At the end of the day, | 0:09:12 | 0:09:13 | |
when women fight back for their dignity | 0:09:13 | 0:09:15 | |
and blacks fight back for their dignity, and Jews fight back | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
for their dignity, there's a levelling off process taking place. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:23 | |
Somewhat disappointed. | 0:09:23 | 0:09:24 | |
I would have expected some condemnation of it from him. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:28 | |
He is deeply committed to the concept of hip-hop music | 0:09:28 | 0:09:32 | |
to allow those who feel they have been oppressed | 0:09:32 | 0:09:35 | |
to express themselves. | 0:09:35 | 0:09:37 | |
And no doubt that includes women and their right to express themselves | 0:09:37 | 0:09:41 | |
in whatever way, including the use of their body. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:44 | |
Confused, Alan looks for more insight from soul singer Mica Paris. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:52 | |
# It's like I'm born again | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
# Like I can breathe again... # | 0:09:57 | 0:10:00 | |
Mica's been involved with the music industry for over 25 years | 0:10:00 | 0:10:05 | |
and has seen the explosion of hip-hop over that time. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:08 | |
Hip-hop itself has changed as a genre | 0:10:09 | 0:10:12 | |
because when it first came round, it was actually really melodic | 0:10:12 | 0:10:15 | |
and soulful and had meaning and it was positive messages, you know, | 0:10:15 | 0:10:19 | |
you had people like Public Enemy, some really fantastic groups, | 0:10:19 | 0:10:22 | |
who were actually speaking about conscious issues and it was good, | 0:10:22 | 0:10:26 | |
but then it became gangsta and that's when it became more violent | 0:10:26 | 0:10:30 | |
and obviously people listening to it are going to be influenced by that. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:34 | |
# Shut it down, shut it down... # | 0:10:34 | 0:10:37 | |
I'm not even as famous as a lot of these people but I feel | 0:10:37 | 0:10:40 | |
I have a huge responsibility | 0:10:40 | 0:10:41 | |
with what I do, that I have to project an image | 0:10:41 | 0:10:44 | |
that is respectful to women and to women of colour. | 0:10:44 | 0:10:48 | |
What needs to happen, I believe, | 0:10:48 | 0:10:50 | |
is that they need to take away the violence because it starts there. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:54 | |
When they start listening to music that is, you know, promoting | 0:10:54 | 0:10:57 | |
peace and love and... I'm not saying everyone's got to hold hands | 0:10:57 | 0:11:01 | |
and sing Kumbaya, but if they change the message | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
and make it more positive, it can change things. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:07 | |
Alan's farm on the road to Belfast, just outside Bangor, is something | 0:11:09 | 0:11:14 | |
of a landmark, thanks to a very distinctive barn. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:17 | |
The hayshed had the scripture verse painted on around 1936. | 0:11:18 | 0:11:23 | |
Around about 1994 an east wind came and blew the side of the shed in, | 0:11:24 | 0:11:30 | |
so it had to be replaced then, and after that it was repainted. | 0:11:30 | 0:11:34 | |
Someone said that John 3:16 is actually the gospel in a nutshell. | 0:11:36 | 0:11:41 | |
All you need to know is in that one verse. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:44 | |
It also tells you something that God couldn't do | 0:11:44 | 0:11:47 | |
and that is that he couldn't give any more then he gave. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:50 | |
He gave his only begotten son and that's the very best that he had. | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
So it's a very interesting verse. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:56 | |
I know you wouldn't agree with this, Kate, there's a gospel text on it. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:03 | |
Kate Smurthwaite is a stand-up comedian and writer. | 0:12:03 | 0:12:07 | |
Politically she's miles apart from Alan, but he's keen to see | 0:12:07 | 0:12:10 | |
if the issue of child sexualisation crosses the divide. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:14 | |
It's interesting because when you say | 0:12:14 | 0:12:17 | |
I was upset that she took her clothes off from a Christian | 0:12:17 | 0:12:21 | |
"point of view" - I'm not Christian, I'm an atheist - | 0:12:21 | 0:12:23 | |
and I'm not... It's not the nudity that bothers me. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:28 | |
For me, what's worrying about these videos, | 0:12:28 | 0:12:31 | |
it's not that Rihanna's made one like this, it's that they're | 0:12:31 | 0:12:34 | |
all like this, and I think that's a problem because of the way | 0:12:34 | 0:12:37 | |
it stereotypes women, the way it sends out a message to young women | 0:12:37 | 0:12:40 | |
who, let's be honest, these videos are not aimed at people | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
your age or my age - they're aimed at young people, | 0:12:43 | 0:12:45 | |
at teenagers. And it's sending out a message to young women | 0:12:45 | 0:12:49 | |
that this is what's important. | 0:12:49 | 0:12:50 | |
There are some brilliant campaigns out there looking | 0:12:50 | 0:12:53 | |
at role models that young people have, | 0:12:53 | 0:12:55 | |
and they make these brilliant videos where they'll interview a woman | 0:12:55 | 0:12:58 | |
who's a surgeon and a woman who flies for the Red Arrows and women | 0:12:58 | 0:13:01 | |
who have brilliant and amazing and interesting lives and real women. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:04 | |
The only women we see on TV are rolling around half-naked | 0:13:04 | 0:13:08 | |
in your fields, unfortunately. | 0:13:08 | 0:13:09 | |
No-one will ever understand how much it hurts. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:12 | |
I'm getting, Kate, to the issue of, "What can we do about it?" | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
I think we have to look at the way that we talk about sex education | 0:13:15 | 0:13:19 | |
in schools, and this might sound like the opposite | 0:13:19 | 0:13:21 | |
perhaps of what you're thinking because the fact is, | 0:13:21 | 0:13:23 | |
they're getting access to these things and they're getting access | 0:13:23 | 0:13:26 | |
at a young age, so what we have to do is, before kids | 0:13:26 | 0:13:30 | |
are interested in these things, we should talk to them. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:32 | |
Before they're giggly about it, before they're starting to fancy | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
boys or fancy girls and starting to get involved in that thing, | 0:13:35 | 0:13:38 | |
we have to say that we're not being salacious, | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
we're making sure that you've got the facts. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:43 | |
I think kids are smart and once they've been told these things, | 0:13:43 | 0:13:46 | |
they will take a more educated perspective on these things. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:51 | |
Yes, I wouldn't argue with the need for sex education, | 0:13:51 | 0:13:54 | |
although I would take the viewpoint that it should be more in the home. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:57 | |
It should be the responsibility of the parents to teach | 0:13:57 | 0:14:02 | |
the children, and sometimes the school context | 0:14:02 | 0:14:05 | |
is not the best context for that type of education. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:08 | |
I agree with you, actually. | 0:14:08 | 0:14:09 | |
The only difficulty is that we have to accept that some kids have | 0:14:09 | 0:14:12 | |
parents who are not that responsible or not that comfortable doing it. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:16 | |
Alan is keen to find out more about the pressures on young women | 0:14:20 | 0:14:24 | |
in the public eye. | 0:14:24 | 0:14:25 | |
So, he's come to meet with Gail Porter. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:28 | |
A former darling of the lads' mags, her naked body was famously | 0:14:28 | 0:14:32 | |
projected onto the Houses of Parliament as a publicity stunt. | 0:14:32 | 0:14:36 | |
Did you ever feel that you were simply a commodity to help | 0:14:37 | 0:14:41 | |
to sell magazines? | 0:14:41 | 0:14:42 | |
Yeah, I did feel a bit of a commodity but I didn't mind, | 0:14:42 | 0:14:45 | |
to tell you the truth. I wasn't a stupid girl. | 0:14:45 | 0:14:47 | |
I knew what I was doing. I was having a bit of fun. | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
They sold their magazines and I was happy. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:53 | |
Heading to a festival near you, that's Embrace. | 0:14:53 | 0:14:56 | |
Do you feel that your whole involvement with that type | 0:14:56 | 0:15:00 | |
of work has harmed you in any way? | 0:15:00 | 0:15:02 | |
I don't think it has harmed me in any way. | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
I think more losing my hair has harmed my work then me | 0:15:05 | 0:15:08 | |
showing my bottom cos people seemed to have more - seemed to find it | 0:15:08 | 0:15:11 | |
more distressing looking at me being bald than, you know, naked. | 0:15:11 | 0:15:16 | |
Gail, do you believe there's a line that you shouldn't cross | 0:15:16 | 0:15:19 | |
in artistic expression? | 0:15:19 | 0:15:21 | |
I think people should be allowed to express themselves | 0:15:21 | 0:15:23 | |
as much as they want, | 0:15:23 | 0:15:25 | |
but if they're going to do something overtly outrageous there should be | 0:15:25 | 0:15:28 | |
a warning on the video or there should be a warning before you go | 0:15:28 | 0:15:31 | |
to see them live, you know, what to expect | 0:15:31 | 0:15:34 | |
but a lot of them are artists | 0:15:34 | 0:15:35 | |
so, you know, it all gets rolled into a big ball of creativity. | 0:15:35 | 0:15:40 | |
# Under my umbrella Ella, ella, ay, ay... # | 0:15:40 | 0:15:46 | |
I never knew anything about Rihanna until I met her in my field. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:49 | |
She's a beautiful young woman. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
Is it not possible that she could be hugely successful | 0:15:51 | 0:15:54 | |
without taking her clothes off? | 0:15:54 | 0:15:57 | |
Definitely but, you know, she likes to do what she like to do so, | 0:15:57 | 0:16:00 | |
I believe in freedom of speech and, you know, creativity. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:04 | |
Do you not think a performer should be allowed to do whatever | 0:16:04 | 0:16:09 | |
they feel is necessary for the performance? | 0:16:09 | 0:16:11 | |
If they believe in it and they're passionate about it. | 0:16:11 | 0:16:14 | |
I would make the argument that the term "artistic expression" | 0:16:14 | 0:16:19 | |
is sometimes code for a sexual performance. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:21 | |
I feel that we've gone too far. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:24 | |
Today children, young people, have all access to computers. | 0:16:24 | 0:16:28 | |
There'll always be the tendency for children to be very, very curious. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:32 | |
It is possible to make sure | 0:16:32 | 0:16:34 | |
that you don't allow your children to look. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:36 | |
I've got an iPad. My daughter's getting the little mini one | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
but we make sure that she's not able to access things that we don't want | 0:16:39 | 0:16:42 | |
her to access, but I can see it being a problem | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
for a lot parents, having to keep an eye on their children all the time | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
and what they're watching and, you know, you can type in one word | 0:16:47 | 0:16:50 | |
and all sorts of things come up on the internet, so it is quite scary. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:54 | |
Shortly after the Rihanna incident, | 0:16:58 | 0:17:01 | |
Alan got a call from a reporter from The Sun newspaper. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:04 | |
It made him wonder about the cosy relationship between Britain's | 0:17:04 | 0:17:08 | |
tabloid press and the multi-million pound pop industry. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:11 | |
Was there any collusion between Rihanna's publicity people | 0:17:13 | 0:17:16 | |
and The Sun to promote her through this incident in my field? | 0:17:16 | 0:17:20 | |
Absolutely none whatsoever. I can tell you that hand on heart. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:23 | |
The first I knew of it I thought, "That's an absolutely excellent | 0:17:23 | 0:17:26 | |
"story" and I was really frustrated we didn't have it | 0:17:26 | 0:17:28 | |
as an exclusive, because we knew she was going to be filming the video in | 0:17:28 | 0:17:32 | |
Belfast and we'd written a bit about that leading up to it. | 0:17:32 | 0:17:34 | |
And when I found out that this incident had happened | 0:17:34 | 0:17:37 | |
between a local farmer and Rihanna, I thought | 0:17:37 | 0:17:39 | |
"That's a brilliant story. It's great." | 0:17:39 | 0:17:41 | |
I'd love to tell you that it was so cleverly manipulated | 0:17:41 | 0:17:44 | |
that they'd rung up in advance and told me it was going to happen | 0:17:44 | 0:17:46 | |
but that simply wasn't the case. | 0:17:46 | 0:17:48 | |
As showbiz editor at The Sun, Gordon has a very close relationship | 0:17:48 | 0:17:52 | |
with many of the world's biggest stars. | 0:17:52 | 0:17:54 | |
I've known Rihanna from very, very early on in her career. In fact, | 0:17:54 | 0:17:58 | |
we went bowling together when she had her first album out | 0:17:58 | 0:18:00 | |
and before many people knew who she was | 0:18:00 | 0:18:02 | |
and she was a really happy-go-lucky, carefree young spirit. | 0:18:02 | 0:18:05 | |
Very talented, great fun to be with. | 0:18:05 | 0:18:08 | |
# Baby, come tell me your secrets and tell me all your dreams... # | 0:18:08 | 0:18:13 | |
In the early days she was really keen | 0:18:13 | 0:18:15 | |
and very hungry for that fame and now she has it to a level | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
where she spends a lot of time under the media microscope. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:21 | |
She doesn't enjoy it quite as much - I do see that happen a lot. | 0:18:21 | 0:18:24 | |
I've been doing this for a long time. | 0:18:24 | 0:18:26 | |
I'll be brutally honest with you, I'm really tired of it. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:29 | |
I got into this job because I wanted to meet my heroes, | 0:18:29 | 0:18:32 | |
travel the world, see the best gigs, meet talented people, | 0:18:32 | 0:18:35 | |
help promote careers, all of that kind of stuff. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:37 | |
So when you get involved in what I would describe as the darker side | 0:18:37 | 0:18:42 | |
of fame and people being hungry for fame's sake, | 0:18:42 | 0:18:45 | |
not for a reason, that bothers me. Can I ask you a question? | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
-You certainly can. -When you were growing up and you were in your late teens, | 0:18:48 | 0:18:52 | |
early twenties, what were you listening to | 0:18:52 | 0:18:54 | |
and what kind of music did you like? | 0:18:54 | 0:18:56 | |
We never had a television, so therefore I'm very, very illiterate | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
on all this pop music stuff. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:01 | |
I did live through the days of the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, | 0:19:01 | 0:19:04 | |
so on and so forth. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:05 | |
In Northern Ireland the other thing about the late '60s | 0:19:05 | 0:19:08 | |
in Northern Ireland was the, it was the start of the Troubles. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:11 | |
Troubles, yeah. | 0:19:11 | 0:19:13 | |
And I suppose there was a lot of distractions. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:15 | |
So my argument might be that isn't pop music | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
and stuff like Rihanna and Lady Gaga a wonderful distraction | 0:19:18 | 0:19:21 | |
for young people from a lot more serious issues? | 0:19:21 | 0:19:24 | |
Well, that is the case, | 0:19:24 | 0:19:25 | |
but I'm convinced that good singers can be very, very successful | 0:19:25 | 0:19:30 | |
without any sexualisation of their performances and I think | 0:19:30 | 0:19:34 | |
they can become very popular and very wealthy people without that. | 0:19:34 | 0:19:39 | |
Fair point. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:40 | |
Alan has decided to seek advice from some experts. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:46 | |
Linda Papadopoulos has had a successful career | 0:19:46 | 0:19:49 | |
as a clinical psychologist, and authored a report | 0:19:49 | 0:19:52 | |
for the last Labour government about the dangers of child sexualisation. | 0:19:52 | 0:19:57 | |
She's also a big rock fan, with an unexpected specialist subject. | 0:19:57 | 0:20:01 | |
-And your chosen subject? -Nirvana. | 0:20:01 | 0:20:03 | |
Nirvana. Two minutes starting now. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:05 | |
Which independent Seattle record label released Nirvana's | 0:20:05 | 0:20:08 | |
first single, Love Buzz? | 0:20:08 | 0:20:09 | |
-Sub Pop. -Yes. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:10 | |
I think the music industry's always pushed boundaries | 0:20:10 | 0:20:13 | |
and, you know, it's always been | 0:20:13 | 0:20:14 | |
Elvis gyrating and people getting | 0:20:14 | 0:20:16 | |
really upset and then people started gyrating, which was fine. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:19 | |
Gyrating's very different to being walked around naked on leashes | 0:20:19 | 0:20:23 | |
and being called a hoe. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:24 | |
I'm a big Nirvana fan. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:26 | |
I remember, back in the day, Nirvana singing against rape and against, | 0:20:26 | 0:20:30 | |
you know, against homophobia and it was cool and that was cool, | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
you know? And now it seems like we've gotten to the point that, | 0:20:33 | 0:20:37 | |
you know, it's cool to be calling women degrading names | 0:20:37 | 0:20:40 | |
and treating them badly and that's not. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:43 | |
Those three passes, Linda, you have 26 points | 0:20:43 | 0:20:47 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:20:47 | 0:20:49 | |
One of the most telling stats that I always hold onto is the number one | 0:20:49 | 0:20:52 | |
plastic surgery technique for teenagers, for young girls, | 0:20:52 | 0:20:56 | |
used to be rhinoplasty - nose jobs. Now it's breast implants. | 0:20:56 | 0:21:00 | |
That to me says a lot about the shift. | 0:21:00 | 0:21:03 | |
Linda, where do we go from here and what do we do about the problem? | 0:21:03 | 0:21:06 | |
Well, how much time do we have? I think we need to speak to parents | 0:21:06 | 0:21:10 | |
so that they know how to complain. I get so many notes from parents | 0:21:10 | 0:21:14 | |
saying, you know, "I saw this on the High Street, how do I complain?" | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
Or, "I saw this in a music video, where do I go?" | 0:21:17 | 0:21:20 | |
People always say, "You can't change it now," | 0:21:20 | 0:21:23 | |
but I always think that, you know, look at the Civil Rights movement, | 0:21:23 | 0:21:26 | |
it went from Rosa Parks to Barack Obama in, what, five, six, decades. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:30 | |
Surely we can turn this around for young girls and boys. | 0:21:30 | 0:21:34 | |
Reg Bailey spoke to over a thousand parents for a recent report | 0:21:35 | 0:21:40 | |
commissioned by the coalition government. | 0:21:40 | 0:21:42 | |
I was really quite surprised | 0:21:42 | 0:21:44 | |
and a bit shocked, frankly, at some of the material I encountered. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:48 | |
I know you're particular experience was with Rihanna, | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
but actually she's not really amongst many of the really guilty. | 0:21:53 | 0:21:58 | |
# Me, I'm no mobster Me, I'm no gangsta... # | 0:21:58 | 0:22:00 | |
The report's recommendations include age ratings on music videos, | 0:22:00 | 0:22:04 | |
and more efficient parental controls on computers that encourage | 0:22:04 | 0:22:08 | |
a dialogue between children and parents. | 0:22:08 | 0:22:11 | |
I'd never have dreamed of allowing my children to go out | 0:22:13 | 0:22:15 | |
into the street | 0:22:15 | 0:22:16 | |
without talking to them about road safety. | 0:22:16 | 0:22:19 | |
And yet astonishingly we allow, so often, our children to go into | 0:22:19 | 0:22:23 | |
a far more dangerous virtual world without giving them, if | 0:22:23 | 0:22:28 | |
you like, the rules of road safety, without doing that, and sometimes | 0:22:28 | 0:22:31 | |
we hide behind the fact that we say we don't understand the technology. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:35 | |
It's a great opportunity for parents to talk with their children | 0:22:35 | 0:22:38 | |
and to build the confidence of their children. | 0:22:38 | 0:22:41 | |
A key driver for Reg was to help parents express their concerns | 0:22:41 | 0:22:45 | |
more easily. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:47 | |
David Cameron encouraged the setting up of a single website called | 0:22:47 | 0:22:52 | |
www.parentport.org.uk, | 0:22:52 | 0:22:56 | |
which is a single point that parents can go to. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:59 | |
Right in the middle is a thing that says Complain. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:01 | |
Parents then need to hear back from people. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
What's happened to their complaint? | 0:23:04 | 0:23:05 | |
Is there anything I can do to make a difference to this problem? | 0:23:05 | 0:23:08 | |
The best thing you can do, Alan, | 0:23:08 | 0:23:10 | |
it seems to me, is to galvanise parents, galvanise grandparents, | 0:23:10 | 0:23:14 | |
galvanise the young people and the children themselves. | 0:23:14 | 0:23:17 | |
They have an acute awareness of some of the difficulties they face. | 0:23:17 | 0:23:21 | |
It's parent power and grandparent power. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
One group that Alan has yet to hear from is the people | 0:23:24 | 0:23:28 | |
who are affected the most - children. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:32 | |
MUSIC: "We Found Love" by Rihanna | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
Alan has gone to see a rehearsal for Rapture, a hip-hop dance group based | 0:23:39 | 0:23:44 | |
in West Belfast, that has gained an impressive international reputation. | 0:23:44 | 0:23:49 | |
So much so that they were invited to be a part of the infamous | 0:23:49 | 0:23:53 | |
video shoot on Alan's field. | 0:23:53 | 0:23:55 | |
Well, Brona, | 0:23:56 | 0:23:58 | |
you were hoping to get down to take part in the video-shoot at the farm. | 0:23:58 | 0:24:02 | |
Yes, we were, Alan, but by the time we got there you'd already thrown | 0:24:02 | 0:24:05 | |
-everybody off the field! -Yes, yes. | 0:24:05 | 0:24:07 | |
-Well, hello, girls. How are you all? -Good. -Yeah? You look splendid. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:12 | |
So do you. | 0:24:12 | 0:24:13 | |
Oh, thank you very much. Yes. Did yous all watch the Rihanna video? | 0:24:13 | 0:24:17 | |
-Yeah. -What do you think Rihanna's really like as a person? | 0:24:17 | 0:24:20 | |
She's made out to be a certain way for her label, | 0:24:20 | 0:24:22 | |
like, to put across things that are going to sell more for her. | 0:24:22 | 0:24:24 | |
When you watch some of her interviews with Oprah and stuff, | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
she is a genuine, like, lovely woman | 0:24:27 | 0:24:29 | |
and you do feel sorry for her because she is put under | 0:24:29 | 0:24:31 | |
so much pressure to portray something that she isn't really. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:34 | |
So you think that modern-day pop stars are marketed and | 0:24:34 | 0:24:38 | |
they're portrayed in a certain way just really to make money? | 0:24:38 | 0:24:41 | |
Yeah, they're like a brand, just trying to be pushed out. | 0:24:41 | 0:24:43 | |
Like, see one of her CD albums, it's called Good Girl Gone Bad, | 0:24:43 | 0:24:47 | |
like, now she's gone really extreme. | 0:24:47 | 0:24:49 | |
You can see the difference from when, like, she began and now. | 0:24:49 | 0:24:52 | |
-Yeah. -Like, she was innocent, now she's a bad girl image. | 0:24:52 | 0:24:55 | |
That's the character she has now. | 0:24:55 | 0:24:57 | |
But in a way as well, like, most well-known artists | 0:24:57 | 0:25:00 | |
are all like that, it's like what they have to be to sell | 0:25:00 | 0:25:04 | |
and be the best cos that's what people are like interested in. | 0:25:04 | 0:25:07 | |
I was very encouraged. | 0:25:07 | 0:25:10 | |
These young ladies seem to have their feet firmly on the ground. | 0:25:10 | 0:25:15 | |
They have principals. They had standards. | 0:25:15 | 0:25:18 | |
They believed that there was a line that shouldn't be crossed | 0:25:18 | 0:25:22 | |
regarding entertainment and the music industry. | 0:25:22 | 0:25:25 | |
If I started to do that, I'd put yous all out of business! | 0:25:26 | 0:25:29 | |
Alan has tried to see many people on his journey | 0:25:34 | 0:25:37 | |
into the pop video business, with mixed results. | 0:25:37 | 0:25:41 | |
Rihanna's management won't allow him anywhere near her | 0:25:41 | 0:25:45 | |
and requests to the big record company bosses | 0:25:45 | 0:25:47 | |
have fallen on stony ground. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:50 | |
What actually happened? What was your Rihanna encounter? | 0:25:50 | 0:25:53 | |
One person who can provide Alan with some industry insight is Sinitta. | 0:25:53 | 0:25:58 | |
A teenage pop star in the '80s, she's gone on to mentor | 0:25:58 | 0:26:01 | |
young people on the juggernaut that is The X Factor. | 0:26:01 | 0:26:05 | |
I simply asked the film crew to stop filming and that was over. | 0:26:05 | 0:26:08 | |
Oh, you ended the shoot, but you didn't see anything, did you? | 0:26:08 | 0:26:12 | |
You didn't see Rihanna without her top on, did you? | 0:26:12 | 0:26:15 | |
Well, I was, I suppose, a discrete enough distance away | 0:26:15 | 0:26:18 | |
but I did realise she hadn't her top on. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:20 | |
You shouldn't have been looking at it, Alan! | 0:26:20 | 0:26:22 | |
-It was a closed set. -That's right, yes. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:25 | |
But to start us off, here is Sinitta! | 0:26:25 | 0:26:27 | |
SONG: "Right Back Where We Started From" | 0:26:27 | 0:26:30 | |
'I understand exactly where you're coming from | 0:26:30 | 0:26:33 | |
'because I mentor young acts. | 0:26:33 | 0:26:35 | |
'I have acts as young as 11, between 11 and 17.' | 0:26:35 | 0:26:39 | |
I'm also Christian. | 0:26:39 | 0:26:41 | |
I've also been a very provocative pop...young pop performer myself, | 0:26:41 | 0:26:47 | |
so I kind of have a 360 perspective of the whole thing. | 0:26:47 | 0:26:52 | |
I'm also a parent now of two young children. | 0:26:52 | 0:26:55 | |
So I understand completely where you're coming from | 0:26:55 | 0:26:58 | |
and I do think it's important that there is some kind | 0:26:58 | 0:27:01 | |
of censorship. Unfortunately it has to be left to parents, really. | 0:27:01 | 0:27:05 | |
# It's all right and it's coming on | 0:27:05 | 0:27:07 | |
# We got to get right back to where we started from... # | 0:27:07 | 0:27:11 | |
Crucially, Sinitta sees evidence that the tide against explicit, | 0:27:11 | 0:27:16 | |
raunchy videos has already started to turn. | 0:27:16 | 0:27:19 | |
Because you have acts like One Direction or Little Mix, | 0:27:19 | 0:27:23 | |
who I think are quite age appropriate, you know, | 0:27:23 | 0:27:26 | |
with their behaviour, it's not overtly sexual. Justin Bieber, | 0:27:26 | 0:27:31 | |
Taylor Swift. There's a lot of really clean cut, sort of, | 0:27:31 | 0:27:35 | |
young pop acts | 0:27:35 | 0:27:36 | |
out there doing extremely well so I think there's a real desire | 0:27:36 | 0:27:39 | |
for it, and I'm sure for parents it's a relief to be able | 0:27:39 | 0:27:42 | |
to sit back and know that they are the role models | 0:27:42 | 0:27:45 | |
that kids are looking up to now. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:47 | |
Over the last year, Alan has gone from a complete novice | 0:27:50 | 0:27:54 | |
to something of a music industry expert. | 0:27:54 | 0:27:57 | |
He's come to realise that the pop industry is an incredibly | 0:27:57 | 0:28:00 | |
powerful machine, but that ordinary people can make a difference. | 0:28:00 | 0:28:05 | |
I started this journey wondering what could be done. | 0:28:05 | 0:28:08 | |
One person will not do it but if everyone gets their act together | 0:28:08 | 0:28:12 | |
and puts the pressure in the right place and brings it to the attention | 0:28:12 | 0:28:15 | |
of government, I do believe there can be a change for the better. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:19 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:28:36 | 0:28:39 |