Building Burma's Death Railway: Moving Half the Mountain


Building Burma's Death Railway: Moving Half the Mountain

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October 1943.

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Japanese forces in Thailand

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celebrate the completion of what would become known

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as the Death Railway.

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TRANSLATION:

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TRANSLATION:

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They used to say, you know, fancy you buying a Japanese car

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or buying a Japanese television or something like that.

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I thought that was a load of nonsense

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because that didn't make any difference.

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I had my worst...

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erm, nightmare...

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ten days ago.

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Now that's...

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70-odd years after.

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TRANSLATION:

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A third of a million men were forced to work on the railway.

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Over 100,000 died.

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My original group was 1,700-strong.

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By the time that the railway was finished,

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erm, there were only 400 left.

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DRAMATIC MUSIC

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By 1941, the Second World War had been raging across Europe

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for several years and was not going the Allies' way.

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Setback followed setback.

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In the Far East, Germany's ally Japan

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attacked US forces at Pearl Harbour,

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invaded territories across the Pacific and rapidly advanced

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towards Malaya and the impregnable British fortress of Singapore.

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Thousands of British and Australian troops

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were sent to defend the colony.

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For many, this was to be the defining moment of their lives.

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People ask me, how is it that you reached the age of 100?

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I've said so many times, I have just missed death.

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This has happened to me so often

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and I've said it's so much of my life that's been luck.

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I don't feel old. I don't want to feel old.

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I think it's preposterous when I suddenly have a 93rd birthday.

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This is crazy.

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But...you know...

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it's just that life is full and rich and interesting and I love it.

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I have never spoken about it

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apart a bit with my family, but never really.

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There's a certain point where...

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you don't, erm...

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..want to talk about it.

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TRANSLATION:

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LOUD AEROPLANE ENGINE

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EXPLOSION

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EXPLOSION

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The Japanese were, I suppose, only about 100k up the Malay Peninsula

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from Singapore when we got there.

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They were dropping bombs on the docks

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and killed a lot of people in the ships that came in

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and the docks were full of people trying to get away.

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It was absolutely tragic.

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We were the last ship in the convoy.

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It was about 11 o'clock in the morning

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when we were going in there

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and a flight of bombers come over...

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..peeled off one at a time, come in, bomb us.

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EXPLOSIONS

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We had got hit several times.

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She started to burn, like,

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and there was thick columns of black smoke coming along the deck.

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I said to my mate, Pat, "I'm going over the side."

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So I leave him now...

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we're crouched down by the cabins and I get up on the rail,

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stand up on the rail, I said to him, "Come on, Pat, I'm going."

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It's the last I seen of him.

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-REPORTER:

-"In the same dark, steaming, tropical jungle,

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"men of the British and Imperial forces go through

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"an intensive training course to fulfil the need

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"for officers of the Malayan Defence Force. Using collapsible boats,

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"they perfect themselves in the methods of jungle warfare."

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It was terribly British stuff really, you know.

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Tremendously British.

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For a time when you should have been training, we didn't,

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and so we went really into war not well trained at all.

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I mean, we hardly trained. It was crazy.

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-REPORTER:

-"The jungle holds many a secret to counter any move

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"directed against Singapore or Australia."

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Absolutely no preparation whatsoever had been done,

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even to clear a field of fire so you could see what you were doing.

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We just faced mangrove swamps.

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The Japanese, they had tanks.

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They had armoured cars.

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But they also had bicycles

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and those bicycles won their war.

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They came down Malaya like a wire through cheese.

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36,000 Japanese soldiers closed in on Singapore.

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Facing them were almost 85,000 British and Allied troops.

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But the Japanese were motivated, experienced

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and expert at jungle warfare.

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The Allies found themselves constantly outflanked

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and outfought.

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So we had this brief spell of fighting,

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and a certain amount of fairly close-contact fighting,

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which is horrific.

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We were actually under mortar fire

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and my colonel literally lost his head.

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There's no question I was always scared stiff...

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when one had shells landing near one.

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Despite fierce and stubborn fighting,

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the Japanese advance continued to close in on Singapore.

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Winston Churchill warned his generals

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that surrender was out of the question.

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We had heard rumours that the Japanese didn't take prisoners,

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so we didn't know what was going to happen, like,

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but it was a terrible, terrible reflection

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of the, erm... the powers-that-be of ours

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that were running that show out there.

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It should never have happened.

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February 15th 1942,

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and the unthinkable did happen.

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The British commander General Percival surrendered Singapore

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to the Japanese.

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The white flag went up at about four o'clock on the Sunday.

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Churchill would later describe this as the worst moment of the war.

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The extraordinary thing is that the Japs, of course,

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were completely amazed at having captured so many prisoners.

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In all, 130,000 men were captured during this short campaign.

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To add to the humiliation of defeat,

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they were forced to watch the victorious Japanese generals

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drive by.

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The Allied prisoners were marched up to the northern tip of Singapore

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to the military base Changi.

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We learnt that the...

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that everyone was going out to this Changi area

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and they marched us 18 miles.

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People say, what's it like being taken a prisoner of war?

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Chaos.

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The fall of Singapore and every way in. No law or anything.

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When things began to break down, which they did very quickly,

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malaria started and then people got dysentery.

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The Japs, as part of this,

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they literally brought out lorry-loads of barbed wire

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which they then told us to put up around a certain perimeter

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and that was the first time you could say we were in a prison camp.

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You learnt Japanese,

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or pseudo-Japanese.

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I can still swear in Japanese, but I've forgotten all my Japanese.

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They would point to your shoes

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-and say...

-HE SPEAKS JAPANESE

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..meaning, what is the name of it?

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And so you would say, "shit", you see?

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And so they would go around pointing at other people's good boots,

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pointing and saying, "You number one shit",

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meaning that you had a very good pair of boots, and it was hilarious.

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We had a lot of fun for about two weeks

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and then they suddenly got the message through an interpreter

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and then we had to learn Japanese orders.

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The Imperial Army had a very tight grip on Japanese society.

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They had been fighting a war in the Far East since the mid-1930s

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and were the driving force behind Japan's territorial ambitions.

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All young men were conscripted at 21

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into a tough and brutal training programme.

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THEY ROAR

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By June 1942, the Japanese advance had continued across the Pacific

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and up into Burma, towards India.

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With an urgent need to move supplies,

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the solution was to dust off an old British plan to build a railway.

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The railway itself was only about 415km long.

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That's not an enormous distance

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at all to link it up with Rangoon,

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So they could bring people to Saigon,

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across to Bangkok and then take them on the railway

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right up to the Burmese frontier.

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So, really, the railway was not a long railway in those terms,

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but it was through the most hellish conditions to make it.

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The Japanese realised they had a vast pool of potential labour

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in their prisoners at Changi.

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Things always changed in these camps,

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and some months later I was called to

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the orderly office and told I was put on a draft

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to go to a holiday camp.

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There was about 600 of us that were selected

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and we were taken down to Singapore and loaded onto trucks.

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And then we had a train journey to Thailand from Singapore.

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There were 32 in my own particular truck and that meant that only

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a certain small percentage could actually sit down at any one time.

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And you had all your kit was stuck in the centre, like, you know.

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There was no sanitary conditions and all, like, you know.

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Absolutely appalling.

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This is where... the real degradation starts.

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And that journey lasted five days.

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We went up to the first place we stopped in Thailand,

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was a place called Ban Pong.

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That was

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an ex-Japanese camp there.

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The Japs had been stationed in there

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but the camp was under about a foot of water.

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I had a large box of Winsor & Newton watercolours

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and I had to throw the box away cos it'd have been too obvious

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but I kept about six to eight or ten little palettes

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and, of all things,

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those little paints lasted me for as long as I wanted them.

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And we were taken up the river.

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We were going to start up the transit camps

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and they dropped us off then at 20-mile intervals

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to go into the jungle and start clearing the jungle,

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because there would be the main body of men coming from Singapore

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and they would be marching up the jungle track

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that followed the River Kwai.

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And then we were told,

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"All men march."

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150km.

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I mean, the question of escaping

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was something on occasion you thought about

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but very quickly dismissed

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cos you had at least 1,200 miles of sea,

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with lots of islands in between, admittedly, but 1,200 miles before

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you'd get to safety or 1,200 miles up-country onto the Burma front.

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If you fell by the wayside

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and couldn't go any further and nobody could help you,

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you were left to die, or they made sure you died.

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It's called the death march.

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The POWs, already weak and ill,

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were forced to build a railway track for the Japanese

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through the mountainous jungle terrain.

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Then we had to climb up about 1,000 feet in this June monsoon,

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of course, and it was just appalling.

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You took two steps and slid back two in the thick jungle there.

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And we started clearing the jungle for where the railway trace was

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going to go through. So that was the first introduction to the actual job.

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And so it gradually got worse from then on.

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EXPLOSION

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They had so much cheap labour.

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Like, apart from us, they had the native populations of these places

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that they took over, like, you know.

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They had brought up something like

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about a couple of hundred thousand natives from down in Malaya

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and that, like, you know, with promises of, oh, a great life,

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but lots of them died in the jungle. Yeah, yeah.

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I forget how long, but two or three months it was monsoon.

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For the first quite a few weeks at this camp that had no rooms,

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we just ate, worked, slept under the rain.

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It was really a problem of supply.

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The only communication was the river.

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And, being a time of the monsoon, the rivers tended to flood

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and this rendered it almost impossible for supplies to get up.

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All we got was supposed to be 250g of rice.

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That usually came in the form of rice full of weevils and so forth,

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so we ate any vegetation that we could.

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Snakes were very good to eat if you could get them.

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The first one I killed was by accident and I just banged...

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It takes a lot to kill a snake because they thrash, you know,

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a tremendous amount. I said, "We've got something to eat," you see.

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He said, "Do you know what you've just killed?"

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And I said, "No." He said, "That's a king cobra."

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And I haven't the faintest idea what this thing was.

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But it didn't matter, really.

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The lizards were quite nice.

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They were quite big. They were maybe up to about 18 inches long.

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Quite big, like, you know, and we'd just kill them, skin them

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and cook them.

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Either grill them or put them in some water and cook them in a pot.

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The men were now starving,

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but the Japanese had refused to sign the Geneva Convention,

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which protected the rights of prisoners of war.

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If our men misbehaved, if the Japanese said they did -

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the misbehaviour was nearly always stealing food -

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then we were all, as officers, lined up and had what's called bintos.

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That is an officer, a Japanese officer, comes up

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and gives you a really hard bang on your face and so on, in front

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of all the men, to try and teach them that they shouldn't steal, you see.

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There's nothing wrong with the ordinary Japanese people.

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No, it was the Japanese army was the problem, like.

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Especially the army, like. They were taught to be brutal.

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That was part of their life.

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You know, it was no...

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It was something that you have a job to understand

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but right from the top of their headquarters,

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right the way down through the army, they were...

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They were even brutal to one another.

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If somebody tried to escape and they were caught,

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they wasn't pleased with just shooting them.

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No, no. They had to torture.

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If you weren't working hard enough, one thing they would make you do

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was you'd have to stand and hold a stone above your head. Once you...

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I mean, when you're weak anyway, if you put both arms up,

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you start to feel faint really quickly.

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And so you would drop the stone.

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So we learnt you dropped the stone fairly quickly and picked it up,

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which was better than collapsing,

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because once you collapsed on the ground they knocked you about

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and kicked you all over the place.

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So you'd probably get more damage through fainting than...

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So, you had to play the game, really.

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I was coming back from the latrine one night

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and one of these Korean guards started to be homosexual with me

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and I...

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Without thinking, I just kicked him in the spot where no man wants

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to be kicked, and he fell to the ground screaming and hollering.

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I got beaten up for a night and a day

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and the following night.

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Until I...

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I no longer remember much, other than the pain and so on.

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And then I was put in the black hole.

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That, really, was probably the one time when I felt this was the end.

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Sweat boxes, they used to put them in. Put people in.

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Made of bamboo, standing about that high off the ground,

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and they were made of small, thin bamboos.

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Constructed... They were made

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so they weren't long enough for a man to stretch right out in

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and they were so low, you know, that you couldn't sit up properly

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so that you were cooped up in there like, you know, and you could get,

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perhaps, you'd be sentenced to, perhaps, for sentence things,

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you'd get a fortnight's punishment in there.

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By mid-1943, the Japanese were still fighting in the north of Burma.

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But, short of supplies and troops,

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the war was no longer going their way.

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We saw Japanese going up to the Burma front.

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We watched the Japanese troops

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and they were unbelievable in what they put up with.

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There were times where the treatment and even the food they got,

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perhaps it was generally better than ours but not much.

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It was such an urgent project to get a line through

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so they could feed them all at the front, the troops.

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This is what the railway was about.

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So there was this urgency about the whole thing.

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It was called the speedo movement. It got worse and worse and worse.

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We had to work harder and harder and so on.

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As anxiety to get the railway finished grew within

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the Japanese ranks, the death rate amongst the POWs

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and native workers increased dramatically.

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If my sick parade got too large, a Japanese private...

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Cos they wanted... Everyone had to work for the Japanese.

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A Japanese private would come along - a non-medical private -

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take my sick parade and, as long as a man was fit enough to stand,

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then they were fit enough to work and off he would go.

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One of the most difficult sections of the construction

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was an area called Hintok,

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better known as Hellfire Pass.

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When they were making these big cuttings,

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which were done largely with hammer and tap,

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they used a certain number of charges to blow the rock

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and one of their games was occasionally

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they would fire a charge without telling anybody.

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So some people got very badly injured with flying sharp rock.

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I mean, why? You thought, "What's the sense of all this?"

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We went out in the morning with all the tools that had been issued

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and, after work, when we returned,

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there had to be a roll call of everybody,

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all the tools had to be handed in

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and if one was short - there were usually a few short -

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then we had to parade.

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Incidentally, with practically every day,

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the odd one or two dead who died out there,

0:31:380:31:42

they had to be put down at the end, at the side, in order to prove

0:31:420:31:46

that the same number had returned as went out in the morning.

0:31:460:31:52

Every morning, I psyched myself up to survive that day.

0:31:550:32:01

That day only.

0:32:010:32:03

Because every day was never as good as the last one.

0:32:040:32:11

It was never good.

0:32:110:32:12

There was never any hope.

0:32:130:32:16

Never any hope.

0:32:160:32:17

In Konyu camps, I think, every disease imaginable was there,

0:33:080:33:14

but the worst one, with the most lives lost, was cholera.

0:33:140:33:20

And the Japanese themselves were scared...

0:33:210:33:24

..and we had to burn these bodies.

0:33:260:33:29

That was, I think, perhaps the low point of my experience up there.

0:33:300:33:38

I mean, looking back now,

0:33:380:33:39

I can hardly believe I experienced all this.

0:33:390:33:42

The medical officers,

0:34:480:34:50

in my opinion,

0:34:500:34:52

were absolute angels.

0:34:520:34:57

They had no drugs to work with, not even an aspirin.

0:34:570:35:02

A colonel in the hospital camp at Changi,

0:35:040:35:08

Colonel Weary Dunlop,

0:35:080:35:11

an Australian,

0:35:110:35:14

did fantastic work.

0:35:140:35:16

Weary Dunlop, this most wonderful Australian surgeon.

0:35:180:35:23

A man I can't praise enough.

0:35:230:35:25

I had something on my forehead. He was going to take it off.

0:35:260:35:29

There wasn't any anaesthesia for it,

0:35:290:35:31

but I think it was melanoma or something he was worried about.

0:35:310:35:34

And beside us was another table

0:35:340:35:38

and there was an Australian who was

0:35:380:35:41

really almost a skeleton, really,

0:35:410:35:43

kneeling on it with his bum in the air because Dunlop wanted to use

0:35:430:35:47

a proctoscope, which was made in the camps, actually.

0:35:470:35:50

And I remember him looking into this man's bottom, you see,

0:35:500:35:54

and he had this lovely Australian voice and he said,

0:35:540:35:58

"Oh, yes," he said, "I think I've seen you before."

0:35:580:36:01

And I nearly fell off the table.

0:36:010:36:04

We were rolling about. What a lovely way to greet your friend, you know.

0:36:040:36:07

At one camp alone,

0:36:110:36:13

over 120 legs were amputated in a single year.

0:36:130:36:16

Operations, mostly amputations,

0:36:170:36:21

as a result of these jungle ulcers...

0:36:210:36:25

..were done with a saw borrowed from the Japanese, which they said

0:36:260:36:33

they wanted back cleaned after the operation or operations.

0:36:330:36:38

They did occasionally produce a bit of sake

0:36:390:36:43

so that people could be put out to some extent.

0:36:430:36:47

I said to him, "I've got this ulcer. What can I do?"

0:36:520:36:58

He said, "Well, I'm sorry. I've nothing to give you.

0:36:580:37:02

"I don't have any drugs.

0:37:020:37:03

"But if you go down to the latrine,

0:37:040:37:09

"pick up maggots,

0:37:090:37:12

"count them,

0:37:120:37:14

"put them on top of your ulcer

0:37:140:37:17

"and let the maggots do their work."

0:37:170:37:20

I said, "Well, what will they do?"

0:37:200:37:22

"They'll eat all the rotten flesh."

0:37:220:37:26

And he said, "There's a good chance you'll get a clean wound."

0:37:260:37:31

I'd been badly... They'd kicked my nose in.

0:37:310:37:35

I had a bad fractured nose and a hole between my eyes

0:37:350:37:38

and I couldn't see anything.

0:37:380:37:40

I was next to an Aussie who'd had his leg cut off that morning.

0:37:400:37:45

A big Aussie.

0:37:450:37:47

And, I mean, it was routine stuff under the most crude circumstances.

0:37:470:37:52

We were lying on bamboo.

0:37:520:37:54

And, anyway, in the middle of the hut was another man

0:37:540:37:58

who was in my own regiment and he had an ulcer that was getting...

0:37:580:38:01

It was granulating quite well.

0:38:010:38:03

It was in a far better condition to hundreds of the others round him.

0:38:030:38:07

And he was kneeling up and hugging his knees

0:38:070:38:10

and rocking like so many of the ulcer patients did out of sheer agony

0:38:100:38:14

and pain and he kept on saying,

0:38:140:38:16

"I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die."

0:38:160:38:20

And this Aussie said, "Look, mate,"

0:38:200:38:23

he said, "If you're going to die, hurry up and bloody do it.

0:38:230:38:25

"I want some sleep," in this lovely Australian voice.

0:38:250:38:29

And we were falling about. It was hilarious.

0:38:290:38:32

But in two hours, he was dead.

0:38:320:38:34

And I remember the Aussie in the morning, he said,

0:38:340:38:36

"Oh, Christ!" He said, "The last thing anybody ever said to him."

0:38:360:38:40

The railway was finally completed in October 1943,

0:39:000:39:04

on schedule, but at the cost of over 120,000 lives.

0:39:060:39:11

The POWs and local workers who died building the railway

0:39:470:39:50

were buried where they fell.

0:39:500:39:53

One life lost for every sleeper laid.

0:39:530:39:56

The jungle was full of British dead.

0:39:570:40:01

You know, we buried them, a lot of them, where they fell.

0:40:010:40:03

You know, we left 12,000 dead up there,

0:40:030:40:07

quite apart from the wreckage that survived, you know.

0:40:070:40:10

But it had all been for no purpose.

0:40:110:40:14

Within months, the war had turned against the Japanese

0:40:140:40:17

and the Allies started to regain lost territories.

0:40:170:40:21

NEWSREEL: These converted Hurricanes, now called Hurribombers,

0:40:210:40:24

carry two 500lb bombs tucked beneath the wings.

0:40:240:40:28

Down there, somewhere in that tangled wilderness, lies their target -

0:40:280:40:31

or rather that's where their target lay.

0:40:310:40:33

After this heavy pounding,

0:40:330:40:34

there'll not be much hospitality left in it for the Japanese invader.

0:40:340:40:37

I think some of the officers... I think Weary Dunlop had had some

0:41:440:41:48

intimation from somewhere that things were getting pretty sticky.

0:41:480:41:53

We had this huge camp with huge pits around it

0:41:530:41:56

and a big band at one side

0:41:560:41:58

and they'd put a machine gun into the wall at one end,

0:41:580:42:03

which really told us

0:42:030:42:05

quite a lot about what they were intending to do, anyway.

0:42:050:42:08

But, still, we didn't know.

0:42:080:42:10

And then, of course, within about nine or ten days,

0:42:100:42:14

they had Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and that finished it.

0:42:140:42:19

It was just saved by the bell, really.

0:42:190:42:21

The Japanese had ceased to fight

0:42:360:42:41

from that time onwards.

0:42:410:42:44

We knew then that we were officially free.

0:42:440:42:46

Japan surrendered to the Allied forces

0:42:510:42:54

on the second of September 1945.

0:42:540:42:56

The POWs were at last free men.

0:42:580:43:01

The Allies had retaken Singapore and, a couple of days

0:43:150:43:19

after that, they were beginning

0:43:190:43:20

to march the Japanese - by then, prisoners.

0:43:200:43:23

And one of our divisional people, soldiers, was, you know,

0:43:250:43:28

like people do, sort of just watching what was going on

0:43:280:43:32

and at one point he turned to his pal and said,

0:43:320:43:36

"Look at those poor buggers. Now it's their turn."

0:43:360:43:39

And that, to me, sums up the attitude of the ordinary soldier.

0:43:390:43:45

We had a sergeant major, a British sergeant major,

0:43:450:43:49

that was in our camp. We didn't have any officers with us.

0:43:490:43:52

And what he said was... He gave us a bit of good advice.

0:43:520:43:58

He said...

0:43:580:44:00

He advised us

0:44:000:44:01

not to take any action against the Japanese.

0:44:010:44:08

He said, "You've survived three and a half years of being prisoners."

0:44:080:44:14

He said, "Now think of your families.

0:44:140:44:17

"Don't do anything stupid that might get you killed," like, you know.

0:44:170:44:21

NEWSREEL: Japanese guards were made to carry the sick and wounded

0:45:350:45:38

to the quayside, where landing craft will take them

0:45:380:45:41

to the hospital ship near the bay.

0:45:410:45:43

Other prisoners who are able to walk make their way to the landing

0:45:480:45:51

craft which will carry them on the first stage of a happy journey.

0:45:510:45:55

From the Far Eastern shores, many have already started a longer voyage,

0:46:090:46:13

taking them back to the land they have served so bravely.

0:46:130:46:16

We... There was no-one there to meet us, you know, it was...

0:46:170:46:22

There was no bands there to meet us or anything like that.

0:46:220:46:26

But we were just taken off the boat

0:46:260:46:30

and taken to a transit camp there in Southampton.

0:46:300:46:36

And we were there for, oh, about a couple of days, like, you know.

0:46:360:46:42

And then we were just stuck on a train and sent home.

0:46:420:46:47

I used to go out in the morning

0:46:480:46:52

and I'd walk the streets of Aberdeen for hours and hours on end...

0:46:520:46:57

..looking...

0:46:590:47:00

..looking for somebody that I knew.

0:47:030:47:06

I was forgetting I had been away six and a half years.

0:47:070:47:10

When I got back, I decided I'd forget everything.

0:47:100:47:14

"I'm going to start a new life."

0:47:140:47:16

I didn't join any ex-prisoner of war outfits or anything.

0:47:160:47:20

I wouldn't have anything...

0:47:200:47:22

As far as I was concerned, although I'm talking about it now,

0:47:220:47:25

I just wouldn't talk about any of my prisoner of war experiences

0:47:250:47:31

or anything. No, I'm going to start a new life and something quite new

0:47:310:47:34

and I'd have nothing to do with what's happened to me.

0:47:340:47:36

That's just happened. It's finished.

0:47:360:47:39

It was...

0:47:390:47:41

a bit overwhelming with having so many people coming to you

0:47:410:47:46

and wanting to know everything about you and all that, like, you know.

0:47:460:47:51

They had no understanding of what horrors we had lived through,

0:47:510:47:55

like, you know, and how the comparison between people's kindness

0:47:550:48:02

and the brutality that we had been experiencing.

0:48:020:48:05

It's been very difficult with the family

0:48:220:48:27

because I never spoke about it.

0:48:270:48:29

My wife died without knowing.

0:48:290:48:32

Mind you, she must have seen and felt...the swinging of moods.

0:48:340:48:40

She must have done.

0:48:400:48:41

And one night, when I had a nightmare,

0:48:430:48:48

I finished up with my hands around her throat.

0:48:480:48:51

So at that stage, I went into the spare bedroom,

0:48:530:48:57

where there was a chair, and I used to sleep in that for weeks.

0:48:570:49:02

I couldn't sleep properly for about ten years. That sounds a long time.

0:49:030:49:07

I could only just sleep under the surface.

0:49:070:49:10

In the camps, you just slept under the surface.

0:49:100:49:14

You were ready to move off because

0:49:140:49:16

they might come in and start beating people up

0:49:160:49:18

or turn everybody out for a working party.

0:49:180:49:20

You didn't know what was going to happen by day or night, very often,

0:49:200:49:24

so you slept like that.

0:49:240:49:25

I knew exactly where everything of mine was

0:49:250:49:29

so that I could put my hands on it.

0:49:290:49:31

Especially my little few drawing things.

0:49:310:49:34

So you were always ready to move.

0:49:340:49:37

And when I came home, it was much the same.

0:49:370:49:40

I would fold my clothes up, and I still do it that way now,

0:49:400:49:43

and I know just where they are.

0:49:430:49:45

Well, compensation. I think I'm right in saying that I got £30,

0:49:530:50:01

we all did, several years after the war.

0:50:010:50:05

We were certainly the worst country of the lot of doing

0:50:070:50:11

anything at all to get compensation from the Japs.

0:50:110:50:15

I blame it most, well, on politicians

0:50:160:50:19

and, above all, the Treasury because we finally got, I think

0:50:190:50:24

the figure was £10,000, about,

0:50:240:50:29

I'm guessing, 15 years ago. Not much more.

0:50:290:50:33

And...

0:50:330:50:34

..there weren't many left,

0:50:370:50:39

so the Treasury obviously saved a lot of money.

0:50:390:50:41

When they talked of trying to get some financial benefit out of it,

0:50:410:50:46

that might have done a bit of good for to help to have healed

0:50:460:50:50

some of the things for the blokes

0:50:500:50:51

but, you know, for me, the...

0:50:510:50:55

I have no, as I said, no ill feeling against the Japanese at all.

0:50:560:51:02

I mean, I meet Japanese here now - no trouble.

0:51:020:51:05

I mean, the Germans, for all what they did,

0:53:320:53:36

they have repented and the generation know what happened.

0:53:360:53:43

But in Japan, they don't.

0:53:450:53:47

No, let the Emperor come and apologise to me.

0:54:220:54:26

That might be the answer.

0:54:260:54:30

And I will decide whether he's sincere or not.

0:54:310:54:34

And, actually, there are two reasons why I don't hate the Japanese.

0:54:380:54:42

One reason is it would do them no harm,

0:54:420:54:45

but if I hate anyone, it does me harm.

0:54:450:54:47

And I've said that the other reason, I'm a Christian

0:54:470:54:49

and Christians are taught to love, not to hate.

0:54:490:54:52

I can't stand this... The way we all, I suppose - I do it sometimes -

0:54:520:54:57

we generalise about people, nations or groups or...

0:54:570:55:02

..bankers or industrialists or whatever.

0:55:040:55:07

Cos there are some good, bad and indifferent anywhere.

0:55:070:55:11

In all, I think I've just been terribly lucky.

0:55:110:55:16

I'm very happy doing what I'm doing and I've no regrets, really.

0:55:160:55:22

It doesn't matter.

0:55:220:55:24

I've been there and I've done it.

0:55:240:55:26

All the things I've ever wanted to do. And I have no regrets.

0:55:260:55:34

I mean, the fact that I was a prisoner of war

0:55:340:55:37

was just a blip in my life, like, you know.

0:55:370:55:40

I am determined to live and beat the Japanese,

0:55:410:55:47

because I'll outlive them all, I hope.

0:55:470:55:50

All those who were involved.

0:55:520:55:54

One of the most interesting parts of this was the sheer ingenuity.

0:55:560:55:59

You put a lot of people together - there are tent smiths,

0:55:590:56:02

there are pharmacists, chemists, all sorts of people.

0:56:020:56:05

So you put all these people together and you can begin to start moving

0:56:050:56:10

half the mountain and I think that was the sort of corporate magic

0:56:100:56:13

of the whole thing, which was so important.

0:56:130:56:16

Thank you to them!

0:56:290:56:31

MUSIC: "The River Kwai March - Colonel Bogey March" by Mitch Miller

0:56:370:56:41

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