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|---|---|---|---|
America. | 0:00:08 | 0:00:09 | |
Land of the free, home of the brave. | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
For much more than fourscore and seven years now, | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
this country has been a leading light of the world, | 0:00:15 | 0:00:18 | |
the source of some of the greatest achievements | 0:00:18 | 0:00:20 | |
in arts and science for generations. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:24 | |
But something has changed in recent months. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:27 | |
Something rather...tangible. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:29 | |
Oh, yes. | 0:00:32 | 0:00:33 | |
That. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:34 | |
Over the past 18 months, | 0:00:34 | 0:00:36 | |
Donald Trump has erupted | 0:00:36 | 0:00:37 | |
onto America's political and cultural landscape | 0:00:37 | 0:00:40 | |
with unprecedented force. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:42 | |
His braggadocious personality was already familiar to Americans | 0:00:42 | 0:00:47 | |
from his years as a reality TV star. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:49 | |
For a long time, though, few seriously thought | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
that he'd succeed in his bid for the White House. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:55 | |
But as he gathered momentum in the closing months of the election, | 0:00:55 | 0:00:58 | |
reactions to Trump were about as subtle as the man himself. | 0:00:58 | 0:01:02 | |
Much of the creative community across the worlds of cinema, | 0:01:04 | 0:01:08 | |
television, music and art seem united in their opposition to him. | 0:01:08 | 0:01:12 | |
But what's his real impact upon culture going to be? | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
Mr Trump. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:17 | |
Quiet, quiet. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:18 | |
Brash. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:19 | |
No, not you. | 0:01:19 | 0:01:20 | |
Got a fast mouth, unpredictable. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
Don't be rude. | 0:01:22 | 0:01:23 | |
I like his cut. | 0:01:23 | 0:01:24 | |
I've travelled across America | 0:01:24 | 0:01:26 | |
meeting those who love | 0:01:26 | 0:01:28 | |
and loathe the man in equal measure... | 0:01:28 | 0:01:30 | |
We need a strong...a father figure. | 0:01:30 | 0:01:33 | |
A masculine figure, finally, in the White House. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:35 | |
-CHEERING -Thank you. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:36 | |
I don't think that Trump really cares about anybody. | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
God bless America. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:42 | |
I feel a storm brewing. | 0:01:42 | 0:01:43 | |
..to find out what his own tastes can tell us about the man, | 0:01:44 | 0:01:48 | |
how the arts and entertainment industries have responded | 0:01:48 | 0:01:50 | |
to his first hundred days, | 0:01:50 | 0:01:52 | |
and what the broader implications might be in the age of Trump. | 0:01:52 | 0:01:58 | |
So hold on, because I think we may be in for a bumpy ride. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:03 | |
So how on earth did we get here? | 0:02:15 | 0:02:17 | |
The ascent of Trump to the White House was an event | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
that next to nobody in the world of culture saw coming. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:23 | |
Artists were blindsided when he took pole position | 0:02:23 | 0:02:27 | |
in the electoral college last November. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:30 | |
The pure divide between one half of the country and the other half, | 0:02:30 | 0:02:36 | |
the inability for the two sides to talk, | 0:02:36 | 0:02:38 | |
it feels very much like the pro- and anti-Vietnam War camps | 0:02:38 | 0:02:43 | |
in the '60s in the United States - | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
that we are so diametrically opposed in our thinking | 0:02:46 | 0:02:50 | |
that there's no common ground on which to have any kind of discourse. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:54 | |
I don't believe he has any real convictions. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:56 | |
And therefore, he's capable of anything. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:58 | |
I think that's what makes people so nervous. | 0:02:58 | 0:03:00 | |
When someone has an ideology, then you can more or less predict | 0:03:00 | 0:03:04 | |
what they're going to do in any given situation. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
With Trump, all bets are off. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:09 | |
I think it is very much a pop culture sensibility. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:14 | |
He watches television, he watches shows that he likes, | 0:03:14 | 0:03:20 | |
he's concerned about ratings, | 0:03:20 | 0:03:22 | |
so we have a pop culture president, | 0:03:22 | 0:03:27 | |
in a way I think we've never had before. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:30 | |
So far, a lot of the outrage about Trump | 0:03:30 | 0:03:32 | |
has stemmed from this one big idea - | 0:03:32 | 0:03:35 | |
that he's this gauche and brash vulgarian, a buffoon, | 0:03:35 | 0:03:39 | |
this philistine who has zero feeling for and understanding of the arts. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:43 | |
But I'm not sure it's quite so simple, | 0:03:43 | 0:03:45 | |
and to understand a little more about the man, | 0:03:45 | 0:03:47 | |
I've been reading this, his 1987 bestseller, | 0:03:47 | 0:03:51 | |
The Art Of The Deal. | 0:03:51 | 0:03:53 | |
Admittedly, not a word of it was written by the Donald himself - | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
the entire thing was ghosted by the journalist Tony Schwartz, | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
but nevertheless, it still contains plenty of insights | 0:04:01 | 0:04:04 | |
into Trump's feelings for and attitude towards the arts. | 0:04:04 | 0:04:09 | |
For one thing, he has a fanatical obsession with architecture, | 0:04:12 | 0:04:16 | |
taking enormous pride in the skyscrapers | 0:04:16 | 0:04:18 | |
he has scattered around Manhattan. | 0:04:18 | 0:04:20 | |
Then there's the early desire to be an actor, | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
an ambition that arguably came to fruition | 0:04:26 | 0:04:28 | |
in his many, many film and television cameos. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:32 | |
Look, without Derek Zoolander, | 0:04:33 | 0:04:35 | |
male modelling wouldn't be what it is today. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:37 | |
Or the bit where he gives his second grade teacher a black eye, | 0:04:38 | 0:04:43 | |
because the young Donald didn't think the teacher | 0:04:43 | 0:04:45 | |
knew enough about...music. | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
Now, this may not be enormously popular, but actually, | 0:04:52 | 0:04:54 | |
it is a little misleading to say that Trump | 0:04:54 | 0:04:57 | |
is wholly uninterested in the world of culture. | 0:04:57 | 0:04:59 | |
Take his towers. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:01 | |
For the young property tycoon, | 0:05:01 | 0:05:03 | |
his greatest achievement was the construction | 0:05:03 | 0:05:05 | |
of his eponymous stronghold on Fifth Avenue. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:09 | |
To make way for Trump Tower, | 0:05:09 | 0:05:10 | |
another building that was on the same site, | 0:05:10 | 0:05:12 | |
occupied by this department store called Bonwit Teller, | 0:05:12 | 0:05:15 | |
had to be demolished, not without controversy. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
After agreeing to donate two historic Art Deco friezes | 0:05:18 | 0:05:23 | |
to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, | 0:05:23 | 0:05:24 | |
Trump baulked at the cost of saving them, | 0:05:24 | 0:05:28 | |
and reneged completely on his promise, | 0:05:28 | 0:05:30 | |
and he wrote in The Art Of The Deal | 0:05:30 | 0:05:32 | |
that he ordered his guys to rip them down. | 0:05:32 | 0:05:35 | |
The Bonwit Teller building had further significance in art history. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:41 | |
In 1961, it was the site of an important display | 0:05:41 | 0:05:44 | |
of Andy Warhol's breakthrough pop paintings. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:48 | |
Two decades later, Andy was to come into the orbit of Trump, | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
who was then midway through construction | 0:05:51 | 0:05:53 | |
of his Fifth Avenue skyscraper. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:55 | |
Encouraged by Trump, | 0:05:56 | 0:05:58 | |
Warhol worked on this series of portraits of Trump Tower | 0:05:58 | 0:06:00 | |
that he hoped one day would hang in the skyscraper's lobby, | 0:06:00 | 0:06:04 | |
but unfortunately for him, | 0:06:04 | 0:06:05 | |
the viewing of the eight finished paintings | 0:06:05 | 0:06:07 | |
didn't really go very well. | 0:06:07 | 0:06:09 | |
He recorded in his diary that, | 0:06:09 | 0:06:10 | |
"Mr Trump was very upset, | 0:06:10 | 0:06:13 | |
"because he didn't feel | 0:06:13 | 0:06:14 | |
"that they were sufficiently colour-coordinated." | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
So, much to Warhol's irritation, | 0:06:16 | 0:06:18 | |
his paintings, sadly, remained unsold. | 0:06:18 | 0:06:22 | |
# Ain't there one damn song that can make me | 0:06:22 | 0:06:25 | |
# Break down and cry? # | 0:06:25 | 0:06:28 | |
His own aesthetic is recognisable the world over | 0:06:30 | 0:06:33 | |
for its gaudy, glittering bling. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:35 | |
This house is an incredible piece of fantasy architecture | 0:06:37 | 0:06:41 | |
in tropical South Florida. | 0:06:41 | 0:06:43 | |
In 1999, Loyd Grossman visited Trump's palatial country club | 0:06:45 | 0:06:49 | |
of Mar-a-Lago in Through The Keyhole. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:52 | |
Now, the theme of this room is fairy tales, | 0:06:54 | 0:06:58 | |
and particularly the tale of Sleeping Beauty, | 0:06:58 | 0:07:02 | |
and it's a real tour de force. | 0:07:02 | 0:07:04 | |
Just look at some of the details. | 0:07:04 | 0:07:05 | |
With its full-length portrait | 0:07:05 | 0:07:08 | |
of Trump in cricket gear, detractors see the building | 0:07:08 | 0:07:11 | |
as a monument to his own ego. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:13 | |
There's a fantasy about Mar-a-Lago. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:18 | |
You walk into it, and... | 0:07:18 | 0:07:21 | |
You feel as though you are in another place. | 0:07:21 | 0:07:25 | |
It's, er... | 0:07:26 | 0:07:27 | |
It's architecturally fascinating. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:29 | |
Celebrated interior designer Carleton Varney | 0:07:35 | 0:07:38 | |
not only maintains a residence minutes from Mar-a-Lago, | 0:07:38 | 0:07:41 | |
but also has lived two floors below Donald Trump | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
in New York's Trump Tower for the past three decades. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
All right, so, this is me with Rosalynn Carter. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:52 | |
This is the Obama invite to the party. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:55 | |
That's Jean Kennedy. | 0:07:55 | 0:07:56 | |
Having redecorated the White House in the past, | 0:07:57 | 0:08:01 | |
does he think that Trump's style tells us anything about the man? | 0:08:01 | 0:08:05 | |
There's something in him that radiates to... | 0:08:05 | 0:08:08 | |
..things that are... | 0:08:10 | 0:08:12 | |
..not of the manner... | 0:08:14 | 0:08:17 | |
..classically born. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:21 | |
I think he is a person of fantasy in every way. | 0:08:21 | 0:08:28 | |
Not only because of his personality, | 0:08:28 | 0:08:31 | |
but because of his...de rigueur, his look. | 0:08:31 | 0:08:35 | |
There's nothing mundane about Donald Trump. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:38 | |
So Trump has always been the formidable presence | 0:08:40 | 0:08:43 | |
we see on our screens today. | 0:08:43 | 0:08:45 | |
But now that he occupies the highest office in the land, | 0:08:46 | 0:08:49 | |
arguably even in the world, | 0:08:49 | 0:08:51 | |
what does the art world make of him today? | 0:08:51 | 0:08:54 | |
It might seem that the art world is in open revolt | 0:08:57 | 0:09:01 | |
against America's new president. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:03 | |
Some of New York's galleries have held exhibitions | 0:09:04 | 0:09:07 | |
denouncing Trump in the immediate aftermath of his election... | 0:09:07 | 0:09:11 | |
..while artists like Ai Weiwei and Shepard Fairey | 0:09:12 | 0:09:15 | |
haven't held back, either. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
And away from the big cities, | 0:09:18 | 0:09:20 | |
artists across the country are also responding. | 0:09:20 | 0:09:23 | |
The bus I've been travelling on was once a campaign vehicle | 0:09:30 | 0:09:33 | |
in the weeks after Donald Trump first announced his candidacy. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:37 | |
But its purpose seems to have evolved a bit since then. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:41 | |
Now it is owned and operated by artists | 0:09:41 | 0:09:43 | |
who've been engaged in political activism for a decade. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:47 | |
This, I have to say, is exceptionally surreal. | 0:09:48 | 0:09:52 | |
You were, what, following him as he went around the country, or...? | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
Well, the bus only goes 50mph and he has a jet! | 0:09:55 | 0:09:57 | |
-THEY LAUGH -So ... | 0:09:57 | 0:09:59 | |
We would look at the primary schedule for what states that day | 0:09:59 | 0:10:02 | |
was the primary, and we'd go to all the Trump rallies we could get to. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
And so, basically, it was kind of a protest artwork | 0:10:05 | 0:10:08 | |
that had followed the Trump schedule around the country. | 0:10:08 | 0:10:11 | |
I mean, it's fascinating, | 0:10:11 | 0:10:12 | |
because I know you call it an artwork, | 0:10:12 | 0:10:14 | |
but it also is clearly a piece of political protest, really. | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
So, which is it primarily for you? Is it art, or is it protest? | 0:10:17 | 0:10:22 | |
Oh, no, for me, it's mostly a piece of art. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:24 | |
I mean, my work tends to focus on politics and economics, | 0:10:24 | 0:10:28 | |
and so I think that art needs to be more present in those fields. | 0:10:28 | 0:10:31 | |
We never say we're protesters, we always say we're artists, | 0:10:31 | 0:10:34 | |
and this is an artwork about Donald Trump, | 0:10:34 | 0:10:36 | |
so just by eliminating that word from the conversation, | 0:10:36 | 0:10:38 | |
we were able to engage with people much more. | 0:10:38 | 0:10:40 | |
What about the reactions that you got when you were driving | 0:10:40 | 0:10:43 | |
around in the campaigns? | 0:10:43 | 0:10:44 | |
Did it ever turn violent or aggressive? | 0:10:44 | 0:10:46 | |
I'd say the last month, six weeks before the election, | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
people would yell at us, "Kill them, bomb them," | 0:10:49 | 0:10:51 | |
things like that, it got very violent. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:53 | |
'Prolific authors Paul Auster and Siri Hustvedt | 0:10:53 | 0:10:56 | |
'also aren't fans of Donald Trump.' | 0:10:56 | 0:10:58 | |
Why is it that, you know, many, many, the majority of artists, | 0:10:58 | 0:11:02 | |
writers, cultural people, just instinctively dislike the man? | 0:11:02 | 0:11:06 | |
SHE CHUCKLES | 0:11:06 | 0:11:08 | |
-Uh... -You mean, aside from the fact that he's a vulgar brute? | 0:11:08 | 0:11:12 | |
SHE CHUCKLES | 0:11:14 | 0:11:15 | |
I mean, his political positions are obnoxious, he's obnoxious, | 0:11:15 | 0:11:20 | |
and he seems to have, as you say, | 0:11:20 | 0:11:22 | |
nothing but a philistine's taste in art, | 0:11:22 | 0:11:25 | |
so, why would artists think that he was someone interesting? | 0:11:25 | 0:11:29 | |
He's not. | 0:11:29 | 0:11:30 | |
Um, he's an appalling creature, | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
and he's so unqualified to be president, | 0:11:33 | 0:11:38 | |
he knows almost nothing. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:39 | |
You are both writers, you are both artists in that broad sense - | 0:11:39 | 0:11:43 | |
what should artists do? | 0:11:43 | 0:11:46 | |
Is there a responsibility, a sort of moral obligation upon artists, | 0:11:46 | 0:11:49 | |
do you believe, to react, to respond? | 0:11:49 | 0:11:52 | |
Yes, I think that artists have, | 0:11:52 | 0:11:55 | |
and will continue to ally themselves, | 0:11:55 | 0:11:58 | |
with the resistance movement as a whole. | 0:11:58 | 0:12:00 | |
And I think that agitprop can be valuable, overtly political art, | 0:12:00 | 0:12:08 | |
but it's often, er, schematic, er, shallow... | 0:12:08 | 0:12:13 | |
You can't dictate what kind of art artists should make, | 0:12:13 | 0:12:17 | |
because, you know, a novel about a tea party on Fifth Avenue | 0:12:17 | 0:12:21 | |
might be the most heartbreaking, important work of the decade. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:26 | |
-It's impossible to know. -Is there a...? | 0:12:26 | 0:12:28 | |
In a funny way, is there a sort of...? | 0:12:28 | 0:12:30 | |
This will sound perhaps perverse, paradoxical, | 0:12:30 | 0:12:33 | |
-but might Trump be a force for good in the culture? -I think so. | 0:12:33 | 0:12:36 | |
I think the enlivening, not just of resistance, | 0:12:36 | 0:12:41 | |
but of the kind of humour | 0:12:41 | 0:12:45 | |
and creativity that is...made under pressure | 0:12:45 | 0:12:52 | |
will be part of the Trump era. | 0:12:52 | 0:12:54 | |
While writers see some reasons to be cheerful under Trump, | 0:12:54 | 0:12:58 | |
readers are turning to dystopian fiction in their droves. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:02 | |
Naturally, Nineteen-Eighty-Four is suddenly | 0:13:02 | 0:13:07 | |
on the bestseller list. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:08 | |
I think most readers who are resorting | 0:13:08 | 0:13:11 | |
to dystopian fiction right now are from the left. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:15 | |
It's just a way of comforting yourself with discomfort. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:19 | |
It's saying there is a good reason that you are upset about this, | 0:13:19 | 0:13:23 | |
you are on the side of right because you are trying to prevent | 0:13:23 | 0:13:27 | |
this from happening to your country. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:30 | |
The other thing that I think is a positive response to Trump | 0:13:30 | 0:13:34 | |
is this new birth of activism across the country. | 0:13:34 | 0:13:38 | |
I think, for the first time, | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
women are leading the Resist movement, | 0:13:41 | 0:13:45 | |
that there are more active women than ever before, | 0:13:45 | 0:13:50 | |
and they are not followers, but actually leaders. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:54 | |
-CHANTING: -Hey-hey! Ho-ho! Donald Trump has got to go! | 0:13:54 | 0:13:58 | |
Hey-hey! Ho-ho... | 0:13:58 | 0:13:59 | |
Donald Trump's election has mobilised women across the world, | 0:13:59 | 0:14:02 | |
incensed by the misogynistic comments he's made over decades. | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
Even before last January's women's march, | 0:14:06 | 0:14:09 | |
Trump had been inspiring feminist work, | 0:14:09 | 0:14:12 | |
like this video from Pussy Riot's Nadya Tolokonnikova, | 0:14:12 | 0:14:16 | |
who was imprisoned in Russia for her political protest art. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:19 | |
# Listen to your women | 0:14:19 | 0:14:21 | |
# Stop killing black children | 0:14:21 | 0:14:24 | |
# Make America great again... # | 0:14:24 | 0:14:26 | |
So, the video is about how, um, | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
how America could look like | 0:14:30 | 0:14:33 | |
under the Trump administration, | 0:14:33 | 0:14:34 | |
and obviously, it will be pretty violent towards women. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:37 | |
And under Trump, that suddenly...? | 0:14:37 | 0:14:39 | |
Under Trump, it became a really big topic, | 0:14:39 | 0:14:41 | |
but it's not just about America, | 0:14:41 | 0:14:43 | |
it's about the whole world, | 0:14:43 | 0:14:45 | |
and I honestly live without borders, so that's why I'm helping | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
my American friends to bring up this issue, | 0:14:48 | 0:14:50 | |
which is really important. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:52 | |
And I was disappointed with Trump, too, and we just wanted to slap him. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:57 | |
He just said that we don't need, actually, | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
to fund programmes for women who are victims of domestic violence, | 0:15:00 | 0:15:04 | |
we just don't need it. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:05 | |
He said that it's a waste. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:07 | |
I was watching the video, and, you know, because it is satire, | 0:15:07 | 0:15:11 | |
in some ways, it is quite broad-brush, | 0:15:11 | 0:15:14 | |
you know, women get branded. | 0:15:14 | 0:15:16 | |
Now, clearly, that's not happening in America, so, is there a sense...? | 0:15:17 | 0:15:22 | |
Oh, it is, it's happening. | 0:15:22 | 0:15:24 | |
When you're a girl and you're 13 years old, | 0:15:24 | 0:15:28 | |
and your President calls a woman "fat pig", | 0:15:28 | 0:15:34 | |
she is branded. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:36 | |
It is what is called stigmatisation. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:38 | |
And the President is a big figure - | 0:15:38 | 0:15:40 | |
every time when you watch the news, you see his face, | 0:15:40 | 0:15:43 | |
and he is saying terrible things about women. | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
What do you think artists should do in America, in a time like this, | 0:15:46 | 0:15:51 | |
if they oppose Trump, personally, politically? | 0:15:51 | 0:15:53 | |
Should they feel they have a responsibility | 0:15:53 | 0:15:57 | |
to make protest art? | 0:15:57 | 0:15:58 | |
I'm just trying to think, not just about what will happen tomorrow, | 0:15:58 | 0:16:02 | |
or in one year, | 0:16:02 | 0:16:05 | |
but what will happen after 50 years. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:07 | |
I think you just have to take your hands and do something. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:12 | |
Ah, I can see this Astroturf plinth, Brian... | 0:16:14 | 0:16:17 | |
Brooklyn artist Brian Whitely found himself under | 0:16:17 | 0:16:20 | |
the full scrutiny of the law when he provocatively erected | 0:16:20 | 0:16:23 | |
a gravestone bearing Trump's name | 0:16:23 | 0:16:26 | |
in Central Park last year. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:28 | |
-With the Police Department sticker! -Yeah. Evidence. | 0:16:29 | 0:16:32 | |
-Oh, in fact, an evidence tag! Right, fantastic. -Evidence tags. | 0:16:32 | 0:16:35 | |
As I understand it, the Secret Service, | 0:16:35 | 0:16:37 | |
they saw this thing as a death threat to Trump. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
Yeah. I get the knock on the door, | 0:16:39 | 0:16:41 | |
and two Secret Service guys and two... | 0:16:41 | 0:16:44 | |
Intimidating people? | 0:16:44 | 0:16:46 | |
Yeah! Two NYPD officers in suits. | 0:16:46 | 0:16:49 | |
I was fingerprinted, photographed, | 0:16:49 | 0:16:51 | |
I'm on a Secret Service watchlist. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:53 | |
Suddenly, it starts to sound kind of Kafkaesque, very dark. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:56 | |
Yeah, it does, it becomes, um, a bit troubling. | 0:16:56 | 0:16:59 | |
But at the same time, I was within my rights. | 0:16:59 | 0:17:04 | |
At the end of the day, after the interrogation, | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
the piece was, um...it was brought down to a littering fine, | 0:17:07 | 0:17:11 | |
because that's all that they could actually get me on in New York. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:14 | |
But do you not think - I mean, slightly to play devil's advocate - | 0:17:14 | 0:17:17 | |
if a tombstone had appeared overnight during Obama's presidency | 0:17:17 | 0:17:20 | |
saying, "Barack Obama, born...", you know, the same thing | 0:17:20 | 0:17:23 | |
would have happened, surely? | 0:17:23 | 0:17:25 | |
Or you feel that something has changed? | 0:17:25 | 0:17:26 | |
I think something has changed. | 0:17:26 | 0:17:28 | |
Everything, for me, ties back to what Trump's been campaigning upon - | 0:17:28 | 0:17:31 | |
alternative media and alt-right people are now | 0:17:31 | 0:17:34 | |
becoming more into the mainstream, so you see more hate crimes | 0:17:34 | 0:17:40 | |
going on in this country and less denouncement of that. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:44 | |
He was condemning the First Amendment, saying, | 0:17:44 | 0:17:48 | |
well, maybe this First Amendment is a little too liberal for his taste. | 0:17:48 | 0:17:52 | |
The First Amendment being, we can say... | 0:17:52 | 0:17:53 | |
people in America are allowed to say whatever they wish. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:56 | |
Freedom of speech. | 0:17:56 | 0:17:57 | |
What about, more specifically, | 0:17:57 | 0:17:59 | |
the issue of Trump's impact on the arts? | 0:17:59 | 0:18:01 | |
Well, I think it's changed the dynamic, for sure. | 0:18:01 | 0:18:03 | |
I mean, for me, being, like, one of the first artists | 0:18:03 | 0:18:06 | |
to do a piece, like, I knew immediately | 0:18:06 | 0:18:07 | |
when he was campaigning that I had to respond, | 0:18:07 | 0:18:10 | |
and you're seeing it more so now than ever. | 0:18:10 | 0:18:12 | |
I don't see a lot of artist peers of mine | 0:18:12 | 0:18:15 | |
who are sitting in their studios, doing, you know, | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
abstract expressionism or something like that. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:20 | |
They are focused on politics now. | 0:18:20 | 0:18:22 | |
Trump's first 100 days in office were a blizzard of activity... | 0:18:27 | 0:18:31 | |
..with North Korea, | 0:18:33 | 0:18:35 | |
travel bans, | 0:18:35 | 0:18:37 | |
meetings with foreign leaders | 0:18:37 | 0:18:38 | |
and the Syrian crisis dominating the news agenda. | 0:18:38 | 0:18:42 | |
Apart from picking fights with Hollywood stars on Twitter, | 0:18:42 | 0:18:46 | |
Trump's only real engagement with the world of culture | 0:18:46 | 0:18:49 | |
has been a series of quarrels over federal funding | 0:18:49 | 0:18:52 | |
for the National Endowments for the Arts and the Humanities. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:56 | |
These agencies, roughly equivalent to the Arts Council in Britain, | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
were once located in this Washington building - | 0:18:59 | 0:19:02 | |
now, ironically, a Trump Hotel. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:05 | |
In his draft budget last March, | 0:19:06 | 0:19:09 | |
the President proposed eradicating them entirely. | 0:19:09 | 0:19:12 | |
But, after much brinkmanship with Congress, | 0:19:12 | 0:19:15 | |
they have now been awarded almost 4 million extra, | 0:19:15 | 0:19:19 | |
though the threat of elimination still looms on the horizon. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:23 | |
How would you characterise Trump's attitude | 0:19:26 | 0:19:28 | |
towards the arts in general? | 0:19:28 | 0:19:30 | |
Americans For The Arts, among the things that we do, | 0:19:30 | 0:19:33 | |
we survey all the presidential candidates. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:34 | |
Donald Trump's answer was that he loved the arts, | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
but when asked about funding of the arts, public money, | 0:19:38 | 0:19:41 | |
what he said was, "I would leave that to Congress." | 0:19:41 | 0:19:44 | |
So, that's pro-arts in attitude, unclear about public policy. | 0:19:44 | 0:19:49 | |
But how much money are we talking here? | 0:19:49 | 0:19:51 | |
Well, it's symbolic. | 0:19:51 | 0:19:53 | |
We're talking about 46 cents a person in America, that's tiny... | 0:19:53 | 0:19:57 | |
-In a year? -Yeah, in a year, 46 cents per person. | 0:19:57 | 0:20:02 | |
Why should the government be funding the arts? | 0:20:02 | 0:20:05 | |
I think that the case for the advancement and the support | 0:20:05 | 0:20:08 | |
of the arts starts off with the fact that the American public wants it. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:12 | |
89% of the American public in polling says they want art | 0:20:12 | 0:20:16 | |
in the lives of their children. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:18 | |
They want art in schools as part of their curriculum. | 0:20:18 | 0:20:22 | |
It's a small percentage of people | 0:20:22 | 0:20:24 | |
that actually are against public funding for the arts | 0:20:24 | 0:20:27 | |
but they're very vocal. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:28 | |
It's also very true that the arts are an economic impact benefit, | 0:20:28 | 0:20:32 | |
they're a jobs benefit, all the data shows that as well. | 0:20:32 | 0:20:35 | |
So this must feel like a very strange time | 0:20:35 | 0:20:39 | |
to be forced to continue to make that case | 0:20:39 | 0:20:42 | |
with Donald Trump as president. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:44 | |
It comes up in the entire history of our country again and again. | 0:20:44 | 0:20:49 | |
There are forces that want things | 0:20:49 | 0:20:51 | |
like the arts and culture in their lives, | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
with the help of government, | 0:20:54 | 0:20:56 | |
and there are forces that want everybody to be on their own. | 0:20:56 | 0:21:00 | |
32 years ago, the Reagan administration | 0:21:00 | 0:21:03 | |
put forward elimination of the arts. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:05 | |
That was turned around and the funding of the arts was kept. | 0:21:05 | 0:21:09 | |
There have been many attempts to eliminate | 0:21:09 | 0:21:12 | |
the National Endowments for the Arts and Humanities, | 0:21:12 | 0:21:14 | |
and there have been attacks on the corporate broadcasting system | 0:21:14 | 0:21:16 | |
all along - this is nothing new. These things go to Congress. | 0:21:16 | 0:21:19 | |
Congress ultimately decides what the budget is going to be. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
A lot of people felt somewhat complacent that Trump | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
wouldn't actually propose these cuts to begin with. | 0:21:25 | 0:21:27 | |
But anybody who's predicting anything about American politics | 0:21:27 | 0:21:30 | |
at this point is likely to be chastened by reality. | 0:21:30 | 0:21:33 | |
Throughout this political gridlock, many have rushed | 0:21:33 | 0:21:37 | |
to ridicule Donald Trump. | 0:21:37 | 0:21:39 | |
100 days in office, so many accomplishments - | 0:21:43 | 0:21:46 | |
lowered my golf handicap, | 0:21:46 | 0:21:47 | |
my Twitter following increased by 700, | 0:21:47 | 0:21:50 | |
and finally, we can shoot hibernating bears. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:52 | |
My boys will love that. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:54 | |
Sir, here's a new bill that you must read immediately. | 0:21:54 | 0:21:56 | |
It lowers taxes for only Republicans. | 0:21:56 | 0:21:59 | |
-Can't Fox News read it and I'll watch what they say? -No. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:02 | |
You have to read it. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:03 | |
Oh, God, this is horrible. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:08 | |
This was supposed to last me the whole four years. | 0:22:09 | 0:22:12 | |
And he's caused more than a few family feuds. | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
I'm the one who's got all the heavy hitters supporting me. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:21 | |
I mean, I have got the cream of the crop. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:24 | |
I've got Sarah Palin. | 0:22:24 | 0:22:26 | |
I've got Chachi. And get this, | 0:22:26 | 0:22:30 | |
I've even got the best Baldwin brother - | 0:22:30 | 0:22:32 | |
Stephen Baldwin. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:34 | |
LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE | 0:22:34 | 0:22:36 | |
What do I think of my big brother's impersonation? | 0:22:36 | 0:22:39 | |
Erm... Brilliant. | 0:22:39 | 0:22:41 | |
Very funny... | 0:22:41 | 0:22:43 | |
Technically, when it comes to the comedy stuff. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:47 | |
I got in trouble when I said that | 0:22:47 | 0:22:49 | |
I didn't think his impersonation was funny. | 0:22:49 | 0:22:52 | |
What I really said in the context of it was I didn't think | 0:22:52 | 0:22:56 | |
some of the stuff they were doing was fair to other family members. | 0:22:56 | 0:23:00 | |
It started to get pretty creepy and personal. | 0:23:00 | 0:23:05 | |
Think of it this way. If a person you did not know came | 0:23:05 | 0:23:08 | |
from a foreign country | 0:23:08 | 0:23:09 | |
and just started flattering you, what would you do? | 0:23:09 | 0:23:12 | |
Marry them. | 0:23:12 | 0:23:13 | |
Stephen Baldwin first got to know Donald Trump | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
when he was a memorable contestant on Celebrity Apprentice. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:22 | |
I would hope that Hollywood | 0:23:22 | 0:23:23 | |
would soften its tone towards President Trump | 0:23:23 | 0:23:25 | |
cos the more they break him down, | 0:23:25 | 0:23:28 | |
the more difficult they make his job. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:31 | |
And again - this is going to sound pretty sketchy, what I'm saying - | 0:23:31 | 0:23:36 | |
I think Hollywood hates President Trump. | 0:23:36 | 0:23:39 | |
Not everybody. There are some organisations | 0:23:39 | 0:23:41 | |
in Hollywood that are conservative. | 0:23:41 | 0:23:43 | |
But I think we're going to see a big movement, | 0:23:43 | 0:23:45 | |
the pendulum is swinging back the other way now, so, sure, | 0:23:45 | 0:23:48 | |
Hollywood is going to be kicking and screaming for quite some time. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:51 | |
And I even cast a foreshadowing here of Hollywood better be careful | 0:23:51 | 0:23:58 | |
about how much it makes fun of Donald Trump | 0:23:58 | 0:24:00 | |
cos I think it's going to lose a lot of its audience | 0:24:00 | 0:24:03 | |
if it doesn't, kind of, swing back | 0:24:03 | 0:24:05 | |
to the middle a little bit and lighten up. | 0:24:05 | 0:24:07 | |
When Baldwin undertook some artwork | 0:24:07 | 0:24:09 | |
as part of a surprising Apprentice task, | 0:24:09 | 0:24:12 | |
he was joined in the gallery by his agent Matt Rich | 0:24:12 | 0:24:15 | |
who'd also run the publicity for Trump's Miss America pageant | 0:24:15 | 0:24:18 | |
for two decades. | 0:24:18 | 0:24:20 | |
What I'm finding, and I think it's fair to say, | 0:24:20 | 0:24:24 | |
is a lot of people who work in the arts, | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
they feel a natural resistance, for whatever reason... | 0:24:27 | 0:24:30 | |
Why do you say natural of all things? | 0:24:30 | 0:24:32 | |
Well, they resist. There seems to be a lot of opposition | 0:24:32 | 0:24:35 | |
to Trump and the Republicans. | 0:24:35 | 0:24:37 | |
-I would certainly not call it natural. -No. -Not in any sense. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:40 | |
So the thing I'd love to get a sense from...from you | 0:24:40 | 0:24:43 | |
is whether or not you believe that that resistance is as widespread | 0:24:43 | 0:24:47 | |
as perhaps it's painted to be? | 0:24:47 | 0:24:49 | |
No, I don't believe so. | 0:24:49 | 0:24:50 | |
My sense, though, is that | 0:24:50 | 0:24:52 | |
someone who has something to lose | 0:24:52 | 0:24:54 | |
might feel threatened by a boycott | 0:24:54 | 0:24:57 | |
or by, "Gee, Meryl Streep, sort of the queen of our industry, | 0:24:57 | 0:25:02 | |
"is saying this, we must also believe it." | 0:25:02 | 0:25:06 | |
I don't think people believe it in their heart. | 0:25:06 | 0:25:08 | |
And I think there is, what's that great term from Spiro, | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
Vice President Spiro Agnew under Nixon? | 0:25:11 | 0:25:13 | |
"The great silent majority" of performers | 0:25:13 | 0:25:17 | |
probably feel differently, but keep their mouth shut. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:20 | |
There is no advantage in backing Mr Trump vocally | 0:25:20 | 0:25:24 | |
and there are perceived disadvantages. | 0:25:24 | 0:25:26 | |
What seems to outrage the cultural elite the most | 0:25:28 | 0:25:31 | |
is when one of their own goes rogue | 0:25:31 | 0:25:33 | |
and publicly declares support for the new president. | 0:25:33 | 0:25:36 | |
January's inauguration was a stunning case in point | 0:25:38 | 0:25:42 | |
because every four years, the tradition is you have | 0:25:42 | 0:25:44 | |
luminaries from the world of entertainment | 0:25:44 | 0:25:47 | |
who ring in the newly elected or re-elected president. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:50 | |
So Bill Clinton had Michael Jackson, Elton John. | 0:25:50 | 0:25:53 | |
George W Bush had Ricky Martin. | 0:25:53 | 0:25:56 | |
Barack Obama had Beyonce. | 0:25:56 | 0:25:58 | |
But Donald Trump...? | 0:25:58 | 0:25:59 | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE | 0:26:03 | 0:26:05 | |
One star who did heed the call was Sam Moore, | 0:26:05 | 0:26:08 | |
of legendary Stax Records duo Sam And Dave, | 0:26:08 | 0:26:11 | |
who enlisted once he heard that Trump was in need. | 0:26:11 | 0:26:14 | |
Despite braving the cold January air | 0:26:14 | 0:26:17 | |
the backlash against Sam was immediate. | 0:26:17 | 0:26:20 | |
Rapper Snoop Dogg branded him an "Uncle Tom". | 0:26:20 | 0:26:23 | |
I'm not an uncle... | 0:26:25 | 0:26:26 | |
I'm a father, I'm a great-grandfather | 0:26:26 | 0:26:28 | |
and I'm a grandfather. | 0:26:28 | 0:26:30 | |
I'm none of the uncles, OK? | 0:26:30 | 0:26:32 | |
So... | 0:26:32 | 0:26:33 | |
But it was ridiculous. | 0:26:34 | 0:26:37 | |
'It was doing what I felt was right and I knew it was right. | 0:26:37 | 0:26:40 | |
'I just sang and then I turned and I walked off.' | 0:26:40 | 0:26:43 | |
# I'm talking about America... # | 0:26:43 | 0:26:47 | |
'I felt wonderful. I did. I felt wonderful. | 0:26:47 | 0:26:51 | |
'I felt like I was part of America.' | 0:26:51 | 0:26:55 | |
I am an American. | 0:26:55 | 0:26:57 | |
I was not an African-American, | 0:26:57 | 0:27:00 | |
I wasn't a coloured boy, I wasn't negro, | 0:27:00 | 0:27:03 | |
I was a man that loves his country | 0:27:03 | 0:27:08 | |
and I was doing something in honour of my country | 0:27:08 | 0:27:12 | |
'at a special time on a special day. | 0:27:12 | 0:27:16 | |
'And that's how I took it.' | 0:27:16 | 0:27:18 | |
# Oh... | 0:27:18 | 0:27:22 | |
# Yeah... # | 0:27:22 | 0:27:24 | |
Mr Trump... | 0:27:26 | 0:27:28 | |
Brash, says things, unpredictable. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:34 | |
He's accomplished something, whether you like it or not, | 0:27:34 | 0:27:37 | |
whether you want to give him the credit or not. | 0:27:37 | 0:27:39 | |
So why don't you stop, guys, ladies and gentlemen, | 0:27:39 | 0:27:44 | |
and let's just give it a chance? | 0:27:44 | 0:27:46 | |
You know what? If we get behind him to do well, to succeed... | 0:27:46 | 0:27:51 | |
..he'll do better. | 0:27:54 | 0:27:55 | |
I like his cut. | 0:27:57 | 0:27:58 | |
Trump's fan base also extends to younger enthusiasts, | 0:28:03 | 0:28:06 | |
some of whom signalled their support for the president through artwork. | 0:28:06 | 0:28:10 | |
-This is the new apartment. -This is the new apartment. | 0:28:12 | 0:28:15 | |
-I am still just moving in. -Yeah, OK. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:18 | |
Since the election Lucian Wintrich has become | 0:28:18 | 0:28:20 | |
a poster boy for the alt-right, following the exhibition | 0:28:20 | 0:28:23 | |
Daddy Will Save Us, | 0:28:23 | 0:28:24 | |
which he organised in support of Trump in New York. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:28 | |
His photography series, Twinks For Trump, | 0:28:28 | 0:28:31 | |
loomed large over the gallery. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:33 | |
And the name of the show was what? It was Daddy... | 0:28:33 | 0:28:36 | |
-Daddy Will Save Us. -Daddy? | 0:28:36 | 0:28:38 | |
A joke that we, | 0:28:38 | 0:28:40 | |
a lot of gay Trump supporters were playing off of, | 0:28:40 | 0:28:44 | |
is we need a strong father figure, a masculine figure, | 0:28:44 | 0:28:49 | |
finally in the White House. | 0:28:49 | 0:28:50 | |
It feels like there's a satirical component there. | 0:28:50 | 0:28:52 | |
I'm still struggling to quite get what it is. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:54 | |
Before this... Before this project came along, | 0:28:54 | 0:28:57 | |
people would say, "Trump supporters, they are ignorant, | 0:28:57 | 0:28:59 | |
"they're old white men who work in the coal industry in the Midwest." | 0:28:59 | 0:29:03 | |
That is the declared premise of who supports Trump. | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
I personally thought it was very, very funny to take that imagery, | 0:29:06 | 0:29:11 | |
take this classic trucker hat and throw it into a new context. | 0:29:11 | 0:29:17 | |
Is there an irony that perhaps, well...I don't know. | 0:29:17 | 0:29:21 | |
You said many of the models wouldn't vote Trump. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:24 | |
Most of them rejected both of the candidates. | 0:29:24 | 0:29:27 | |
Almost everybody, I don't know anybody around my age | 0:29:27 | 0:29:32 | |
who is gay who really applauded Hillary. | 0:29:32 | 0:29:34 | |
What seems to have happened subsequent to the election | 0:29:34 | 0:29:38 | |
is a transformation for you | 0:29:38 | 0:29:39 | |
from artist to White House correspondent, right? | 0:29:39 | 0:29:43 | |
-Right. -For The Gateway Pundit. | 0:29:43 | 0:29:45 | |
Just describe what The Gateway Pundit is. | 0:29:45 | 0:29:47 | |
The Gateway Pundit is a right-leaning website. | 0:29:47 | 0:29:50 | |
It's still fast news | 0:29:50 | 0:29:52 | |
so we're functioning in a fast news era. | 0:29:52 | 0:29:54 | |
How did you get into it? Because one of the things that... | 0:29:54 | 0:29:57 | |
My understanding - and you tell me if I'm wrong - | 0:29:57 | 0:30:00 | |
is that you sort of pitched up in Washington and, | 0:30:00 | 0:30:03 | |
what do you call it, the traditional media correspondents, | 0:30:03 | 0:30:06 | |
they do things in a different way, | 0:30:06 | 0:30:07 | |
and it seems like you're trying to goad, provoke them, | 0:30:07 | 0:30:12 | |
for reasons that maybe you'll explain. | 0:30:12 | 0:30:14 | |
I don't know. Is that fair? | 0:30:14 | 0:30:15 | |
I mean, it's relatively fair. | 0:30:15 | 0:30:17 | |
I thought I'd actually have to provoke them | 0:30:17 | 0:30:19 | |
and then I realised me just being in the same room as them | 0:30:19 | 0:30:22 | |
really bothers them, cos they know I got this position | 0:30:22 | 0:30:25 | |
after a series of erotic Trump photographs, | 0:30:25 | 0:30:30 | |
which is, in and of itself, I think, hilarious. | 0:30:30 | 0:30:32 | |
Vote The Deplorables - what is this? | 0:30:35 | 0:30:38 | |
So that was actually done by Sabo, | 0:30:38 | 0:30:41 | |
who he is a Los Angeles street artist | 0:30:41 | 0:30:44 | |
and he was wildly pro-Trump | 0:30:44 | 0:30:46 | |
so, yeah, we got the toupee here, which is wonderful. | 0:30:46 | 0:30:49 | |
Just explain how it's a positive image. | 0:30:49 | 0:30:52 | |
Um...because, again, we are the new punk rock. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
Part of the fun of being a Trump supporter | 0:30:56 | 0:31:01 | |
is it is counterculture, it is like New Wave or, yeah, | 0:31:01 | 0:31:07 | |
the skinheads, before skinheads became Nazis. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:11 | |
Are you...? Do you share any of the concerns, | 0:31:11 | 0:31:14 | |
the fears that other people have about Trump? | 0:31:14 | 0:31:16 | |
We need to disrupt the federal government right now | 0:31:16 | 0:31:18 | |
and Trump is doing that. | 0:31:18 | 0:31:21 | |
He is doing it in such a wonderfully pop culture way. | 0:31:21 | 0:31:26 | |
'As Lucien demonstrates, | 0:31:26 | 0:31:28 | |
'arguably the biggest culture shock with the advent of Trump | 0:31:28 | 0:31:30 | |
'has been the administration's relationship with the media.' | 0:31:30 | 0:31:34 | |
These attempts to lessen the enthusiasm of the inauguration | 0:31:34 | 0:31:37 | |
are shameful and wrong. | 0:31:37 | 0:31:39 | |
Sean Spicer's beleaguered press conferences | 0:31:39 | 0:31:42 | |
have made headlines around the world. | 0:31:42 | 0:31:44 | |
This was the largest audience | 0:31:44 | 0:31:46 | |
to ever witness an inauguration - period. | 0:31:46 | 0:31:49 | |
One of the biggest changes has been the upending | 0:31:49 | 0:31:51 | |
of the usual pecking order. | 0:31:51 | 0:31:53 | |
In the past, outlets like CNN, the Associated Press, | 0:31:53 | 0:31:56 | |
they were given first dibs on questions, | 0:31:56 | 0:31:59 | |
but now, a new breed of correspondent | 0:31:59 | 0:32:01 | |
is making its way into the bear pit. | 0:32:01 | 0:32:04 | |
Some of them are known as Skyper fans, | 0:32:04 | 0:32:06 | |
because they ask these innocuous questions | 0:32:06 | 0:32:09 | |
that are sycophantic to the Trump administration | 0:32:09 | 0:32:12 | |
and get beamed into the White House press room | 0:32:12 | 0:32:14 | |
via online video messaging, | 0:32:14 | 0:32:16 | |
leaving those big beasts from the traditional media | 0:32:16 | 0:32:19 | |
groaning in frustration. | 0:32:19 | 0:32:21 | |
The whole media landscape is being reshaped, | 0:32:21 | 0:32:24 | |
with the administration even threatening earlier this year | 0:32:24 | 0:32:28 | |
to abolish funding for public service broadcasting. | 0:32:28 | 0:32:31 | |
There has been some speculation | 0:32:31 | 0:32:33 | |
that perhaps this gambit's motivated by a certain character | 0:32:33 | 0:32:37 | |
who pops up from time to time on PBS's beloved Sesame Street. | 0:32:37 | 0:32:42 | |
Grump! | 0:32:44 | 0:32:47 | |
# Who has more trash than anyone does? | 0:32:47 | 0:32:49 | |
-# Grump! -Grump! -Grump! | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
# Who has the best rubbish and scuzz? | 0:32:51 | 0:32:54 | |
-# Grump! -Grump! -Grump! | 0:32:54 | 0:32:56 | |
He's coming! Here he comes. | 0:32:57 | 0:33:01 | |
-# I'm the trashiest -Grump! | 0:33:01 | 0:33:03 | |
-# I'm the grouchiest -Gru-u-u-ump! | 0:33:03 | 0:33:09 | |
I am Donald Grump | 0:33:09 | 0:33:11 | |
and I have more trash than all of you | 0:33:11 | 0:33:14 | |
so nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah! | 0:33:14 | 0:33:16 | |
Of course, this was far from a real attack on Trump. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:20 | |
But the new POTUS's trash talk has seen a surge in hostilities | 0:33:20 | 0:33:24 | |
between the president and the mainstream media, | 0:33:24 | 0:33:26 | |
causing some to draw parallels with other regimes. | 0:33:26 | 0:33:30 | |
Trump himself said, in very chilling terms, | 0:33:30 | 0:33:35 | |
the press is the enemy of the public, | 0:33:35 | 0:33:39 | |
which is frightening. | 0:33:39 | 0:33:41 | |
I mean, this sounds like something we would have heard | 0:33:41 | 0:33:45 | |
under Hitler and Goebbels back in the day. | 0:33:45 | 0:33:50 | |
It was also the title of the play by Ibsen, for goodness sakes. | 0:33:50 | 0:33:54 | |
Enemy Of The People. | 0:33:54 | 0:33:56 | |
And so if he feels that he can start attacking the press in this way, | 0:33:56 | 0:34:03 | |
in other words, calling it fake, lies, | 0:34:03 | 0:34:08 | |
anything he doesn't like, | 0:34:08 | 0:34:11 | |
then I could see a moment, if things go in a certain way, | 0:34:11 | 0:34:16 | |
in which they can start taking away freedom of speech | 0:34:16 | 0:34:20 | |
and make it legal. | 0:34:20 | 0:34:21 | |
No, not you. Not you. Your organisation is terrible. | 0:34:21 | 0:34:25 | |
Today, it seems Trump's modus operandi | 0:34:25 | 0:34:29 | |
is to label all those who oppose him as liars or weaklings. | 0:34:29 | 0:34:33 | |
In no sector is this more pronounced than the world of news. | 0:34:33 | 0:34:37 | |
Some in Trump's administration say that the mainstream media | 0:34:37 | 0:34:40 | |
were too cosy with the old order. | 0:34:40 | 0:34:44 | |
Do you remember how, last year, "post-truth" | 0:34:44 | 0:34:46 | |
was the Oxford Dictionary's word of the year? | 0:34:46 | 0:34:48 | |
Maybe you've already forgotten | 0:34:48 | 0:34:50 | |
because it's now been superseded by another, related phrase - | 0:34:50 | 0:34:53 | |
fake news. | 0:34:53 | 0:34:56 | |
Don't be... I am not going to give you a question. | 0:34:56 | 0:35:00 | |
You are fake news. | 0:35:00 | 0:35:01 | |
"Fake news" first gained some currency | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
when Buzzfeed began investigating websites sprouting up online. | 0:35:04 | 0:35:10 | |
I think we saw | 0:35:10 | 0:35:12 | |
fake news start to bleed into the campaign | 0:35:12 | 0:35:15 | |
in the spring and summer of 2016 | 0:35:15 | 0:35:18 | |
and really, what you saw were these sites | 0:35:18 | 0:35:20 | |
you had never heard of - Trump 365, trueconservative.com - | 0:35:20 | 0:35:24 | |
things you'd never heard of publishing stories that, | 0:35:24 | 0:35:27 | |
when we really dug into it, were the most widely shared stories | 0:35:27 | 0:35:30 | |
on Facebook that day. | 0:35:30 | 0:35:32 | |
They appear to be teenage entrepreneurs, | 0:35:32 | 0:35:34 | |
there have been questions about | 0:35:34 | 0:35:35 | |
whether there were any Russian... if there was anybody from Russia | 0:35:35 | 0:35:39 | |
anywhere near that operation but that hasn't been shown. | 0:35:39 | 0:35:41 | |
As soon as a lot of...what I would say the legitimate media | 0:35:41 | 0:35:45 | |
started reporting on this phenomenon of fake news, | 0:35:45 | 0:35:47 | |
the answer from people who are making up stories and spreading lies | 0:35:47 | 0:35:50 | |
was "No, you are fake news." | 0:35:50 | 0:35:51 | |
So he seized on fake news | 0:35:51 | 0:35:53 | |
and turned it around | 0:35:53 | 0:35:54 | |
so anything that is basically | 0:35:54 | 0:35:56 | |
negative about him is now fake news, | 0:35:56 | 0:35:58 | |
which was clever. | 0:35:58 | 0:35:59 | |
It's the same sort of... | 0:35:59 | 0:36:02 | |
That is the 1984 aspect. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:04 | |
During the election, when he first started saying "Crooked Hillary", | 0:36:04 | 0:36:09 | |
everybody said, "That's over the top, it won't have any impact." | 0:36:09 | 0:36:12 | |
It turned out to have enormous impact - | 0:36:12 | 0:36:14 | |
very simple phrases, just repeat them, repeat them. | 0:36:14 | 0:36:18 | |
Hillary is an unstable person. | 0:36:18 | 0:36:20 | |
There is no better place for short, catchy messages | 0:36:20 | 0:36:23 | |
than Twitter's 140 characters. | 0:36:23 | 0:36:27 | |
It is interesting, the tweeting. People think that it's a sign | 0:36:27 | 0:36:31 | |
he's crazy, but he's sort of crazy like a fox. | 0:36:31 | 0:36:33 | |
He sees it, I think, as his own TV network. He has got... | 0:36:33 | 0:36:37 | |
Between Twitter and Facebook and various other online mediums, | 0:36:37 | 0:36:41 | |
he claims to have between 50 and 100 million followers. | 0:36:41 | 0:36:46 | |
Now if you compare that to the number of people | 0:36:46 | 0:36:48 | |
watching broadcast news every evening, it is much bigger. | 0:36:48 | 0:36:51 | |
So whenever there is a big, unfavourable story about him, | 0:36:51 | 0:36:54 | |
usually the Russian story, | 0:36:54 | 0:36:55 | |
inevitably, he comes out with some sensational tweet. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:59 | |
Like a lot of people, | 0:36:59 | 0:37:00 | |
I think he's addicted to the online world and tweeting, | 0:37:00 | 0:37:03 | |
but also sees it as an invaluable tool, | 0:37:03 | 0:37:06 | |
so that is why he doesn't give it up. | 0:37:06 | 0:37:07 | |
I have met so people who support... | 0:37:09 | 0:37:12 | |
I hope President Trump succeeds at making America great again. | 0:37:12 | 0:37:16 | |
..or oppose America's new president. | 0:37:16 | 0:37:19 | |
The only person he believes in is himself. | 0:37:19 | 0:37:22 | |
I'm not sure I can see these two sides ever reconciling. | 0:37:22 | 0:37:25 | |
But I wonder what his ultimate impact on the arts will be. | 0:37:25 | 0:37:29 | |
Perversely, having become this hate figure | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
for many people on the left associated with the arts, | 0:37:33 | 0:37:37 | |
Trump, paradoxically, seems to be stimulating creativity | 0:37:37 | 0:37:41 | |
because he represents something, he's a symbol of something | 0:37:41 | 0:37:44 | |
that artists can oppose and rail against. | 0:37:44 | 0:37:47 | |
But at the same time, Trump, time and again | 0:37:47 | 0:37:50 | |
has proven wrong those people who've dismissed him - | 0:37:50 | 0:37:52 | |
at one stage, he was supposedly this vile clown, | 0:37:52 | 0:37:55 | |
with zero chance of making it to the White House, | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
and look what happened there. | 0:37:58 | 0:38:00 | |
So I really believe this is no time for complacency. | 0:38:00 | 0:38:04 | |
Any civilised society must cherish artistic expression | 0:38:04 | 0:38:08 | |
and surely nowhere more so than in a country that prides itself | 0:38:08 | 0:38:13 | |
on being the land of the free. | 0:38:13 | 0:38:15 | |
Donald Trump is a very nice person. I am a nice person. | 0:38:33 | 0:38:38 |