Stanley and His Daughters Arena


Stanley and His Daughters

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"My bone cleaveth to my skin

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"and to my flesh,

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"and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth.

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"Have pity upon me.

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"Have pity upon me, O ye, my friends,

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"for the hand of God has touched me."

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Tell me, how has your relationship changed over the years?

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Well, it has changed a lot.

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It has changed a lot.

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-Yes.

-And for the better.

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Yep.

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Well...

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-So...

-I... I...

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..was just rather self-centred,

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and though I was very fond of Unity, always...

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..I don't think I was very kind to her.

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-In fact, I know I wasn't.

-Well, you were a bit jealous, really.

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-You were a bit jealous, really.

-I don't think I was jealous, actually.

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-Oh, yes, definitely, Shirin. I experienced...

-I don't think...

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I experienced jealousy from you.

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-You felt jealous of...?

-No!

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I experienced it from you!

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-You experienced...

-You were jealous of me.

-Yes.

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-I'm not criticising you...

-No, no.

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-..I'm simply making a statement.

-Yeah.

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You were experiencing the fact that I was jealous.

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-Well, it seemed to be...

-Yeah.

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..which wasn't altogether surprising, really,

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under the circumstances.

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I don't, erm, remember being jealous...

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-No.

-..of Unity, but...

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..who knows? I guess I was.

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Of course, it's strange...

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Strange? That was taken out the washing machine.

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-Right.

-Anyway, let's go.

-Yes.

-Not much to see.

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Have you taken out of the cupboards?

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Did you open the cupboards and take what was there?

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-Everything's gone out of the cupboards, Mum.

-OK.

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-There were those big dishes in there.

-Yeah, they've all gone.

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-They've all been safely packed.

-Oh, good.

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Oh, it's changed so much, because Mum has forgiven Shirin.

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Shirin can be herself, and apart from being a little bit fussy,

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which annoys Mum... She says, "Oh, Shirin, stop fussing!"

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But it takes time in any relationship

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for anyone to learn, work out, understand.

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So, how's it going to be in Wales, now?

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It'll be all right. If she annoys me, I'll tell her so,

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and if I annoy her, she'll tell me so.

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Do you think you've got a more honest relationship now?

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Oh, yes. I think so, don't you?

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-Hmm?

-I think we have a more honest relationship now.

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-Oh, yes.

-I think so.

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Oh, yes.

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She's got her friends and her church

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and her various things down there.

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Well, I'm not frightened, now.

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I'm not frightened of...

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..making things worse, you know?

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I was putting my foot in it thoroughly, beforehand.

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Well, that's his painting palette, presumably.

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Yes.

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-It looks very big.

-Yes.

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Can you show me how he would hold it?

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-Well, you hold it with your thumbs right here...

-I've never held one.

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-..like that.

-Yes.

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-The thumb goes through there.

-Yeah.

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-ARCHIVE FOOTAGE:

-This is an art class in a little village school.

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It's a rather special day because a real artist lives in the village,

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and today, he's come to join the class.

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The artist is Stanley Spencer.

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The school is at Cookham,

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which is a quiet and pretty English village on the River Thames,

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and not far from Windsor Castle in London.

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Stanley Spencer was born in Cookham and went to school there himself.

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He has lived in the village for most of his life.

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His house is just opposite the school

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and looks out across the playground.

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Stanley Spencer's work was first shown in London in 1912,

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and he's been painting hard ever since.

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Now, he is one of the best-known artists in Britain.

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His drawings and portraits are admired by many people.

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His paintings hang in most of the public galleries in Britain.

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He has become one of the most individual artistic personalities

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of his time.

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STANLEY: You see, everything has a sort of double meaning for me.

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There's the ordinary, everyday meaning of things,

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utilitarian meaning, and the imaginary meaning about it all.

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-ARCHIVE FOOTAGE:

-From the beginning, the events and prophecies

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of the Bible have been, for him,

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the most natural and exciting of all subjects.

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In his art, they come to life in vivid scenes,

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full of the sense of wonder and a new awareness.

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One of the...

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One of the things of which we both,

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my dad and me,

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thoroughly agree is that

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religion is saying ta to God.

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That is what he used to say.

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He said, "Religion is saying ta to God."

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What did he mean by that?

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Thank you!

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So, thank you for nature and life and everything?

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Music, people, situations.

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And...

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..of course Burghclerers used "ta".

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There's something so

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inspiring about Burghclerers.

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It's a...

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You know, one says inspiring, which lifts you up,

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but it also knocks you over.

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STANLEY: The pictures in this chapel

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really divide into two major experiences

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that I had in the 1914 war.

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You see in the top picture there,

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you can just see a bit of the Macedonian scene.

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One was Macedonia scene, and the other was Bristol Hospital scenes.

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The arch pictures and the ones below

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are, more or less all of them,

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Bristol Hospital scenes.

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The one above is Macedonia.

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And here we have the big altar

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resurrection picture, which is also Macedonia.

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When I did this altar piece,

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Resurrection, I wanted it to be

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in Macedonia, I wanted it to be in a particular place that I remembered.

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And I felt that all that I hoped for

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of all the coming back home and everything,

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could be, so to speak, celebrated there.

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This picture speaks to me

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more than many sermons, because,

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you know, his main interest

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was in resurrection and redemption.

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Well, you couldn't have a greater example of redemption

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than those two hands.

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It's just incredible.

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And actually, it was when they were still...

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..when they were courting, when our parents were courting.

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And Mummy, bless her, posed as one of the figures

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lying on the floor.

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And also as Christ...

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There's actually a drawing of her

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posing for this picture.

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Well, the great difference

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between our parents

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was that they wanted no difference.

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They wanted something you can never get in this world...

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..perfect.

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You know, complete unity.

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They got Unity, of course, the child,

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but they couldn't really get this unity.

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It was a...

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It was in one way...

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..the same philosophy,

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and in another quite different.

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A different approach.

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They...

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They were, as I think someone said,

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"these God-besotted Spencers".

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Something of that sort.

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Well, my mother's family moved

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from Oxford to Hampstead,

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and I think my grandmother bought number 47...

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..and that's where I was born, in the top bedroom.

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Shirin was born at the Vale of Health Hotel

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on Hampstead Heath,

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and I was born up there.

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Do you have fond memories of it?

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Oh, yes, very fond. I loved it.

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It was my beloved home and garden.

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I really loved it.

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"Season of mists and mellow fruitfulness

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"Close bosom-friend of the maturing sun

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"Conspiring with him how to load and bless

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"With fruit the vines that round the thatch-eves run."

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I can't remember the middle bit.

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-And then...

-It has not often seen me...

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-Sorry, dear?

-What about, "Autumn sitting beside thee"?

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-Oh.

-Yeah.

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"Oft how I've seen thee by thy store

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"Thy hair soft-lifted by the winnowing wind

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"Or by a half-reap'd furrow sound asleep."

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And something about watching the last oozing, hours by hours.

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A German friend of mine was very put out.

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He said, "Who's got time to do that?"

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And I forgot to tell him that it was autumn, not a human.

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THEY LAUGH

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-Autumn stays a long time.

-Yes, yes.

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When things got difficult in Cookham,

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my mother came up to Hampstead,

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with Unity as a really little child,

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and she had a small room.

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There was room for the bed, there was room for a cot.

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It wasn't a big room for another child,

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and there wasn't room in any other room.

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So it was best if I went to stay

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with someone local

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who was related, even distantly.

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And this was Mrs Harter, who was the mother of Gwen Carline.

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My mother's family were Carlines.

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This is Gwen Carline, the widow of my mother's brother Sidney.

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So I went there, I didn't know how long I was going to stay.

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But I went there when I was getting on for six.

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LANGUID PIANO MUSIC

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Oh, well, when I was born, everything...

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I seemed to disrupt everything,

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cos Mrs Harter said she'd look after Shirin.

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She was...the connection she had was her daughter had married Sidney.

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She said she'd look after Shirin,

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but she never returned her.

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And Mummy didn't have the courage to ask for her back.

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So it was pretty awful, really.

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Then, when the War came, I was sent off, taken to Epsom,

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which was ridiculous,

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because Epsom was on the flight path from Croydon Aerodrome to the coast.

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So that was a bit stupid, and deprived Mummy

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of both her daughters.

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All she ever wanted was to have two little girls,

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and Daddy and I discovered...

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I also thought that maybe this is partly what caused her to go mad.

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-That her family was split up and taken from her?

-Yes!

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No need. No need at all.

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I mean, if she couldn't have coped,

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she could've got a nanny in to help.

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Already had Miss Swiss Alps.

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SHE CHUCKLES

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This is Cookham village.

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The River Thames passes behind it in a series of gentle bends

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which enclose flat meadows lined with trees.

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By the river and amongst the trees, there is a peaceful church

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and churchyard.

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There are none of Spencer's paintings inside,

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but this church is an important factor in Spencer's mind.

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The village gardens are shaded by flowering shrubs and magnolias,

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or by tall, black cedar trees.

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It's a quiet place with a life and an atmosphere of its own, where

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everyone knows everyone else and where life goes at its own

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unhurried pace.

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Cookham is a kind of newspaper to me,

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through the pages of which I am anxiously

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glancing in the hope of finding something about myself in it.

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On the whole, it's rather satisfactory.

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I seem to find here and there bits, and it sort of

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writes me up very well. But you understand what I mean -

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that I find something of myself all over the place.

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LANGUID PIANO MUSIC

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She made a beeline for Daddy because he got a bit of money.

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Do you think she was after the money?

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Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

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Well, she was a lesbian, she wasn't interested in Daddy.

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Have you got any memories of her, even though you were very young?

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-Patricia?

-Yeah.

-I met her once when I was about nine.

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And being terribly stupid and gullible... She came in rather

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smarmy, and so I shook hands with her, but Shirin fortunately

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didn't, cos she was much more shrewd and perceptive than I was.

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She had written a letter to Mummy...

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..saying, "Dorothy and I are going on in advance,

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"and Stanley is finishing a landscape.

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"And if you could come down and see to your own things,

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"you know, collect anything that belongs to you,

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"and then come on with Stanley, if you like."

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-On the honeymoon?

-To the honeymoon!

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Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

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I mean...

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And, of course...

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I mean, she would have known what would have happened,

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guessed what would have happened

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when Mummy came down to Cookham and there was Daddy, and he was

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so delighted to see her and it was, you know,

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it was almost as if nothing had happened.

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Well, you know, in a way, he was...she'd...

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..have no letters from him at all, and...

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..and so...

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you know, to be greeted like that...

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And, of course, they committed adultery.

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It's a mad, mad situation!

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Because Mummy never felt herself...

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..not to be his wife, really.

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But she was willing to do this.

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She did, she did go down and she did sign the divorce thing.

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You know, she'd never, ever

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thought she was going to be divorced.

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LANGUID PIANO MUSIC

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"You deserve to be cursed.

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"And there is no doubt that you will be,

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"and sooner than you would like.

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"It is not possible that such infinite cruelty could fail

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"to surround, eventually, your own life.

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"Where the hurt-bearing atmosphere...

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"Some tragedy will certainly come...

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"..that you would do anything to prevent.

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"You cannot entertain a devil and trust him

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"not to turn round on yourself

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"and destroy you.

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"Your cruelty will surround your life as it has already

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"entered into your Academy pictures...

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"..the compositions, but more especially, the shapes

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"are cruel shapes.

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"A sensitive person would be knocked backwards

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"and fly from those pictures.

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"You deserve to have a murdered

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"person tied to your back forever,

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"in such a manner that you can never escape from it."

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MUSIC: Let Yourself Go by Ginger Rogers

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# Come, get together

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# Let the dance floor feel your leather

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# Step as lightly as a feather

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# Let yourself go

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# Come, hit the timber

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# Loosen up and start to limber

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# Can't you hear that hot marimba?

0:31:050:31:07

# Let yourself go

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# Let yourself go, relax

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# And let yourself go, relax

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# You've got yourself tied up in a knot

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# The night is cold but the music's hot, so

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# Come, cuddle closer

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# Don't you dare to answer, "No, sir"

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# Butcher, baker, clerk and grocer

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# Let yourself go. #

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-And this home, for you, has been a happy place?

-Oh, yes.

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-And so...

-Not enough visitors, but it's really nice.

-Yeah.

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And so we're wanting now to just thank God for your time here?

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-Yes, yes.

-And also to pray for you as you're moving home and going to

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Wales. How would you say you're feeling about moving to Wales?

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-I'm feeling sort of strange.

-Yeah.

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A bit strange. But I think it'll be all right.

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-Yeah.

-And I...

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My sister will be there, that's partly the reason.

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But she said she hoped she wasn't dragging me to Cowbridge.

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Well, she is dragging me... LAUGHTER

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..but it's quite a nice drag.

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This is from Ephesians 3.

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Unity, I pray that, out of God's glorious riches,

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He may strengthen you with power through His spirit in your inner

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being, so that Christ may dwell in your heart through faith.

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And, Heavenly Father, thank you for Unity.

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Thank you for this house that she has lived in.

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Thank you for the rest she's enjoyed here.

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Thank you for the laughter that's been had here.

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Thank you that this place has been a home of happiness

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and contentment and creativity

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and hope.

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And so, Father, thank you that in the Lord Jesus,

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as Unity moves to Wales, thank you that you will continue to

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be with her, that you will be at home in her.

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And so, Lord, we pray for her, we pray that she might know

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the joy of the Lord as her strength.

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That she might know the peace of the Lord in her heart.

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And that she might know the love of the Lord Jesus at her right hand.

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-And we pray this in Jesus' name. Amen.

-Amen.

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-You're very brave...

-Am I?

-..starting a new house...

0:33:320:33:36

Oh, I don't know.

0:33:360:33:38

I suppose... Well...

0:33:380:33:40

..life's got to be lived.

0:33:400:33:42

LANGUID PIANO MUSIC

0:33:470:33:51

In this painting of Hilda, Unity and Dolls,

0:34:510:34:55

my mother's in the background and I'm in the foreground...

0:34:550:34:58

..and I've got...

0:35:000:35:01

I'm holding Golden Slumber Sonia Rose in my arms.

0:35:010:35:04

Here she is.

0:35:060:35:08

Here's little Sonia Rose, looking a bit...

0:35:080:35:11

..a little bit sort of...

0:35:110:35:13

I don't know what, quite, but...

0:35:130:35:16

..there she is.

0:35:160:35:18

And what's her full name?

0:35:180:35:20

Golden Slumber Sonia Rose.

0:35:200:35:23

-And did you name her?

-I did, certainly.

0:35:230:35:26

Oh, yes.

0:35:260:35:29

Originally, she had black hair, but

0:35:290:35:32

because I cut it, then she had different coloured...

0:35:320:35:36

..hair.

0:35:360:35:38

There she is, bless her.

0:35:390:35:41

-She's a pretty little thing, isn't she?

-Beautiful.

0:35:470:35:50

There you are, Sonia Rose. You go back in there, dear.

0:35:530:35:55

Whoops.

0:35:570:35:59

Oh. There we are.

0:36:030:36:07

Mummy doesn't look very happy.

0:36:090:36:13

I'm just kind of ordinary, I suppose.

0:36:130:36:15

Is this at a time of the family breaking up?

0:36:170:36:20

Oh, yes.

0:36:200:36:22

I think the family had.

0:36:220:36:24

In 1937, Minnehaha got left a house in Epsom...

0:36:260:36:32

..which had been her childhood home. I mean, Epsom itself.

0:36:340:36:38

Big house.

0:36:380:36:41

And so she moved there, together with me.

0:36:410:36:45

So you can imagine how I...

0:36:480:36:50

..I missed them.

0:36:500:36:52

I missed Unity and...

0:36:520:36:55

..my mother and my father.

0:36:570:37:00

I hadn't seen my father, actually, since I was about six.

0:37:000:37:05

I didn't see him much, no.

0:37:070:37:09

You know, very seldom.

0:37:110:37:14

He...you know, he did keep in touch with Mummy,

0:37:140:37:18

and of course with Unity, because she was there.

0:37:180:37:22

But, no, I didn't.

0:37:220:37:25

And then...but being in Epsom meant that I wasn't in Hampstead,

0:37:250:37:30

so I wasn't near my mother, couldn't be at any meetings that there were.

0:37:300:37:35

Did you feel very lonely?

0:37:370:37:40

I did feel...

0:37:410:37:43

I suppose...

0:37:450:37:47

..in a way, I felt exiled.

0:37:470:37:51

I wasn't all that lonely -

0:37:520:37:54

I had nice friends, and Minnehaha and Gwen were very kind to me.

0:37:540:37:59

I mean, I got very naughty and got punished a bit,

0:37:590:38:02

but nothing much.

0:38:020:38:04

But, no, I...

0:38:050:38:08

..I just missed them very much.

0:38:080:38:10

# Oh, how amiable are thy dwellings

0:38:130:38:16

# Thou Lord of hosts

0:38:160:38:21

# My soul has a desire and longing

0:38:210:38:25

# To enter into the court of the Lord

0:38:250:38:29

# Ha-na-na-na-na, la-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee. #

0:38:290:38:34

I can't remember the rest, but in the end, it says...

0:38:340:38:37

# I'd rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God

0:38:370:38:41

# Than dwell in the tents of the ungodly. #

0:38:410:38:45

I love this bit.

0:38:450:38:46

"I'd rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than

0:38:460:38:49

"dwell in the tents of the ungodly."

0:38:490:38:52

Poof! Prrah! Posh! Poof! SHE LAUGHS

0:38:520:38:56

LANGUID PIANO MUSIC

0:38:580:39:01

I remember my mother being very...

0:39:230:39:26

Well, she was in bed and it was 11 o'clock in the morning,

0:39:260:39:29

and she was depressed.

0:39:290:39:32

And suddenly she rose up in bed and stretched a hand out in front of her

0:39:320:39:39

and said, "I hate him. I hate him."

0:39:390:39:42

Well...

0:39:460:39:49

..it was tragic.

0:39:490:39:52

It was appalling.

0:39:520:39:54

It was cruel...and...

0:39:540:39:58

..it was so unjust.

0:40:000:40:03

The way he was behaving.

0:40:040:40:07

But I'm afraid at that time...

0:40:090:40:12

..he felt that, in a sense,

0:40:140:40:17

as an artist, as a genius, he could do anything.

0:40:170:40:23

"I will go for a walk through Cookham churchyard.

0:40:260:40:29

"I will walk along the path which runs under the hedge.

0:40:310:40:34

"I do so and pause to look at a tombstone which rises

0:40:360:40:41

"out of the midst of a small privet hedge which grows over the grave

0:40:410:40:47

"and is railed round with iron railings.

0:40:470:40:50

"A little to the right is a simple mound,

0:40:520:40:56

"guarded at either end by two small firs.

0:40:560:41:01

"Both are upright and elliptical in shape.

0:41:010:41:05

"I return to our house and put it down on paper.

0:41:060:41:11

"I think still more hopefully about the resurrection.

0:41:120:41:16

"I go to supper, not oversatisfied with the evening's thought,

0:41:170:41:23

"but know that tomorrow will see the light.

0:41:230:41:28

"Tomorrow, in my flesh, I shall see God."

0:41:280:41:34

Unity, why do you think Shirin was jealous of you?

0:41:380:41:42

Well, I was four and a half years younger than her

0:41:440:41:48

and that is a very difficult age gap for a child to tolerate, apparently.

0:41:480:41:53

Do you think it was anything to do with the fact

0:41:560:41:59

that you were with your mother?

0:41:590:42:01

-Probably. Could be.

-And Shirin was with Mrs...?

-Could well be.

0:42:010:42:05

Mrs Harter... She wasn't kind to my mother.

0:42:060:42:10

You know, I mean, all my mother ever wanted was to have two little girls

0:42:120:42:17

and Minnehaha virtually commandeered us.

0:42:170:42:21

And it's not surprising, and I think Daddy and I agree,

0:42:220:42:26

it's not surprising that Mummy became a bit mentally ill

0:42:260:42:30

and said that Mrs Harter was coming to murder everybody.

0:42:300:42:35

I think probably Mummy wanted to murder Mrs Harter.

0:42:350:42:38

Well, we...

0:42:420:42:43

For years, I didn't understand...

0:42:430:42:46

..erm, what Unity was trying to say to me.

0:42:470:42:52

-Why not?

-And...

-Why not?

0:42:520:42:54

-She was saying...

-Why not?

0:42:540:42:56

-Hmm?

-Why not?

0:42:560:42:57

Well, I didn't have the capacity to understand that...

0:42:580:43:02

-What?

-It wasn't...

0:43:020:43:04

Well, because you'd say, "You know."

0:43:060:43:08

-Well, you did know, Shirin, and you pretended you didn't.

-I didn't know.

0:43:080:43:13

-No, a lot of the time you did.

-No, I didn't actually know

0:43:130:43:17

but that was because of...

0:43:170:43:20

..my own...

0:43:230:43:26

..lack of knowledge, and lack of knowledge of myself and...

0:43:290:43:33

What I really need is integrity.

0:43:330:43:36

That's what is really essential,

0:43:380:43:42

because it is...

0:43:420:43:44

..being honest with yourself, with other people, and...

0:43:460:43:53

I've always valued other people.

0:43:540:43:58

I've had great love for other people, but I haven't always...

0:43:580:44:02

..understood because I didn't understand myself, you know?

0:44:040:44:08

And I feel, in a way,

0:44:100:44:15

I'm discovering a bit about integrity.

0:44:150:44:18

Rather late.

0:44:210:44:23

But better late than never.

0:44:230:44:25

My father was very musical.

0:44:510:44:54

He came from a family where everyone played an instrument.

0:44:540:44:59

He used to say that Beethoven was like humanity striving for heaven

0:45:060:45:14

and Bach WAS heaven.

0:45:140:45:16

Straighten the piano up on three.

0:45:210:45:24

Point the piano that way.

0:45:240:45:26

-Cup of tea?

-Hurray!

0:45:450:45:47

Which way up is it going in?

0:45:570:45:59

SHE PLAYS: God Save The Queen

0:46:010:46:06

LAUGHTER

0:46:060:46:08

Shirin has a real network of friends here,

0:46:500:46:53

an amazing network of friends, and her church, and she's made

0:46:530:46:57

a real home, and she's still active in her village and her community.

0:46:570:47:02

Mum has friends in London

0:47:020:47:04

but she's not active with them in the way Shirin is.

0:47:040:47:07

If I've got to look after both of them, or provide care, or...

0:47:070:47:10

..whatever way, to get care for both of them, in the future,

0:47:100:47:14

financially, it's a no-brainer to bring Mum here than to take Shirin

0:47:140:47:19

to London, and Mum agreed, and so we've done it,

0:47:190:47:22

and so far, it seems to be, it feels to be the right decision.

0:47:220:47:26

And Shirin and Mum are getting so close,

0:47:260:47:30

and as I said, Shirin's never had, since she was four...

0:47:300:47:33

I know we've asked and talked about them living together,

0:47:330:47:36

but living together unconditionally in a happy space,

0:47:360:47:41

this is the first time.

0:47:410:47:42

And they are happy together, and that's wonderful.

0:47:420:47:45

Tell us about this painting.

0:48:580:49:00

Well, it's packing up our trunks at the end of term

0:49:000:49:06

to go home for the holidays.

0:49:060:49:09

And...

0:49:090:49:11

..that's about it, really.

0:49:140:49:16

Are you self-taught? You said you had to work it all out for yourself.

0:49:160:49:20

Oh, yes, I hadn't been to art school.

0:49:200:49:22

I mean, we had a good art teacher at school

0:49:220:49:25

but I hadn't been to art school.

0:49:250:49:27

"Oh, how I long to paint.

0:49:380:49:41

"A man told me that Malta possesses many old churches

0:49:420:49:47

"full of frescoes

0:49:470:49:49

"and one in particular called the church of St Paul,

0:49:490:49:53

"which contains the life of St Paul on its walls.

0:49:530:49:56

"When this man told me this, I began to long.

0:49:580:50:02

"I couldn't help thinking what a glorious thing it was to be

0:50:020:50:06

"an artist, to perform miracles, and that I wanted to work and couldn't."

0:50:060:50:13

"If I see a man putting a bivouac up beautifully,

0:50:150:50:19

"I want to do it myself.

0:50:190:50:23

"And when I read of Christ raising the dead,

0:50:230:50:26

"I want to raise the dead myself."

0:50:260:50:29

The one of the picnic where Patricia is there -

0:50:520:50:55

does that still make you... Do you get cross?

0:50:550:50:57

Well, I...

0:50:570:51:01

..I've sort of dealt with it.

0:51:010:51:05

Erm... Obviously, when people bring that time up,

0:51:050:51:11

it's uncomfortable.

0:51:110:51:13

Because... More because of me than because of Patricia.

0:51:140:51:20

Because of how I felt about her

0:51:220:51:25

and the fact that I think

0:51:250:51:30

she's the only person in my life I've hated.

0:51:300:51:33

And I guess it was partly jealousy.

0:51:360:51:38

And I think I must have realised quite early on that...

0:51:410:51:49

..she was taking my dad away.

0:51:510:51:53

There is in the copyright a clause

0:52:260:52:29

that you can pretty much reproduce anything,

0:52:290:52:33

but you cannot reproduce the double nude.

0:52:330:52:36

Shirin can't look at it.

0:52:360:52:37

And the pain for Shirin has been immense and total, it's complete.

0:52:390:52:47

Recently, she's softening on it

0:52:470:52:51

because of, I've put conversations to her, saying, you know,

0:52:510:52:55

in time, people will be able to see this picture more, so...

0:52:550:53:01

Mum can look at the picture. Shirin can't.

0:53:010:53:03

For Shirin, I don't know whether it's difficult to

0:53:060:53:10

look at your pretty much fully... full frontal naked father,

0:53:100:53:14

or whether it is Patricia.

0:53:140:53:17

And it's just the fact that there is the woman -

0:53:180:53:21

there are other pictures with her in but this one's pretty brutal

0:53:210:53:25

for a daughter to cope with, for a woman to cope with,

0:53:250:53:28

for an old lady to cope with.

0:53:280:53:29

So, it's bloody painful.

0:53:300:53:32

Christ fell asleep and when he woke in the morning, he said,

0:54:120:54:15

"I will arise now and go to my father."

0:54:150:54:17

And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness.

0:54:200:54:23

For wheresover the carcass is,

0:54:260:54:28

there will the eagles be gathered together.

0:54:280:54:31

How often would I have gathered the children together,

0:54:330:54:37

even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings.

0:54:370:54:39

And Jesus said unto him, "The foxes have holes and the birds

0:54:410:54:45

"of the air have nests

0:54:450:54:47

"but the Son of Man hath not where to lay his head."

0:54:470:54:49

And when he sent them away, he departed into a mountain to pray.

0:54:510:54:55

He said those paintings were painted

0:55:000:55:02

at a very difficult time for him. When was that?

0:55:020:55:04

Well, it was after his second marriage had broken up.

0:55:040:55:09

And...

0:55:110:55:13

You know, he was very courageous.

0:55:160:55:19

But he...

0:55:230:55:24

He just got on with the job and did more paintings, and of course

0:55:240:55:30

the Christ in the Wilderness series came out of that time too.

0:55:300:55:34

And some of those paintings - fantastic, like The Scorpion...

0:55:360:55:41

SHE EXHALES

0:55:410:55:42

That's amazing.

0:55:420:55:43

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions

0:55:470:55:51

and over all the power of the enemy,

0:55:510:55:54

and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

0:55:540:55:56

Then why take ye thought for raiment?

0:55:590:56:02

Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow.

0:56:020:56:05

They toil not, neither do they spin, and yet I say unto you that

0:56:050:56:09

even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

0:56:090:56:13

This kneeling position was a memory of seeing my baby Shirin

0:56:130:56:17

looking down into the long grass.

0:56:170:56:20

This picture of the...

0:56:220:56:24

..Christ in the Wilderness, and it's The Scorpion.

0:56:280:56:33

The colours are very muted.

0:56:370:56:40

The colour of his robe and the rocks around and the sand beyond that,

0:56:410:56:49

they're just the same, the same colour.

0:56:490:56:53

He is one, he's absolutely one with nature.

0:56:550:57:00

But he's got this little scorpion in his hand

0:57:020:57:07

and although it says, "You should take up scorpions and snakes

0:57:070:57:12

"and any deadly thing, they will not harm you,"

0:57:120:57:16

what he's really doing is looking at this scorpion

0:57:160:57:20

with great attention and great affection, you know, being...

0:57:200:57:26

In the looking at nature, that time, he's...

0:57:270:57:33

He's looking at the creation,

0:57:340:57:38

and he had a big part in that, so, you know,

0:57:380:57:43

the scorpion is one of his creations and he's jolly interested in it.

0:57:430:57:48

It's so loving.

0:57:500:57:52

You know, and also, though I don't really...

0:57:530:57:57

I'm not particularly interested in the...

0:57:570:58:01

..you know, astrology,

0:58:030:58:07

I am under the sign of Scorpio,

0:58:070:58:11

and...

0:58:110:58:12

..I think I can sort of put myself into it

0:58:140:58:20

and feel that he's looking at me with kindness.

0:58:200:58:25

Sort of, "I'll give you another chance, old girl."

0:58:270:58:30

That is my Uncle Will.

0:58:360:58:38

He was the oldest brother in a family of about eight children,

0:58:380:58:42

Spencer children, and very much sort of revered by the younger members,

0:58:420:58:48

and Daddy and I visited him in Switzerland.

0:58:480:58:52

On this occasion, he had been ill,

0:58:520:58:56

so he was in bed, and Daddy sat on one side and I sat on the other

0:58:560:59:02

and we drew him,

0:59:020:59:04

and Daddy said he thought my drawings were better than his.

0:59:040:59:08

I think, actually, on this occasion, my drawing WAS better than his.

0:59:090:59:13

It was more sympathetic, somehow.

0:59:130:59:16

And then I came back from the Slade one day,

1:00:191:00:22

I'd just started at the Slade, from Wimbledon Art School,

1:00:221:00:27

and I came in and I said, "How's Mummy?"

1:00:271:00:31

And she looked very serious,

1:00:311:00:34

so I dashed out of the house, and I ran and ran and ran and ran and ran,

1:00:341:00:39

all the way up a steep slope leading to New End Hospital,

1:00:391:00:45

and as I came up the stairs, I saw Daddy come out of the ward

1:00:451:00:50

and I realised that Mummy had died,

1:00:501:00:53

and I let out a great big howl

1:00:531:00:56

that reverberated all around that bit of the hospital.

1:00:561:01:00

They're both very brave woman

1:01:291:01:31

because they've come through it and they've coped,

1:01:311:01:34

and I've see it when I was younger. I've seen Mum's depression.

1:01:341:01:38

I've come home from boarding school for the weekend

1:01:381:01:41

and Mum's in her pyjamas under her clothes

1:01:411:01:43

because she couldn't be bothered to get dressed properly

1:01:431:01:46

and she's met me off the bus.

1:01:461:01:47

And when she was depressed in London, I didn't know where

1:01:471:01:50

home was going to be till we got there and it's a bedsit

1:01:501:01:52

in Sutherland Road near the Harrow Road, off Maida Vale.

1:01:521:01:56

And...

1:01:561:01:58

..I've had to just lump it and get on with my day, weekend,

1:01:581:02:02

go back to boarding school. Um...

1:02:021:02:05

And Shirin at that time was in Africa.

1:02:051:02:08

I don't know whether Shirin went to Africa...

1:02:081:02:11

I don't know the motive but I think a lot of the motive is,

1:02:121:02:15

the safest place to be is as far away as possible from this...family.

1:02:151:02:21

And how long had you suffered from depression?

1:02:281:02:31

15 years or so.

1:02:311:02:33

Maybe even more.

1:02:331:02:35

I did a strange thing called the Landmark Forum.

1:02:371:02:40

Tough, very tough, and...

1:02:411:02:44

You have to do lots of different things, and at the end, I...

1:02:451:02:49

You have to get up on the platform and say who you are.

1:02:501:02:54

I said, "Who I am is the possibility of daring, joy and love,

1:02:541:02:59

"and I give up being the victim."

1:02:591:03:01

And when I said that, I was freed of the depression!

1:03:011:03:04

But it was because I said it publicly that I was freed.

1:03:041:03:09

Had I said it in here, I wouldn't have been freed.

1:03:091:03:12

I did go to the Forum,

1:03:141:03:18

which Unity had been to, and...

1:03:181:03:23

And that's when she said, "I forgive you,"

1:03:231:03:27

and I wasn't quite sure in particular what things

1:03:271:03:30

she was forgiving or just general forgiveness,

1:03:301:03:33

but that was fine, and...

1:03:331:03:36

And I thought, "Oh, well, perhaps she no longer wants to reject me."

1:03:381:03:45

Reject you?

1:03:451:03:47

-Reject you?!

-Yes.

1:03:471:03:50

-Since when?

-Every...

1:03:501:03:52

-Well, I did feel rejected, obviously.

-Oh, well. Oh, right.

1:03:521:03:56

Because I couldn't...

1:03:561:03:58

Because I didn't have the nous to understand what was going on.

1:03:581:04:04

I think you understood very well.

1:04:041:04:06

-Sorry?

-I think you understood very well.

-No, I did not.

1:04:061:04:10

I know you deny it, Shirin, but I think you did.

1:04:101:04:12

At some point fairly recently, I think I realised that...

1:04:571:05:02

..it was important to forgive... forgive her, and that also,

1:05:051:05:12

if I didn't forgive her, I wouldn't be forgiven.

1:05:121:05:15

And hope is nothing flimsy-whimsy at all.

1:05:301:05:34

Hope is strong and kind

1:05:341:05:39

and I hate to disagree with the great poet who wrote,

1:05:391:05:45

"Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold..."

1:05:451:05:49

I personally believe in a strong centre.

1:05:511:05:56

A warm, kind...

1:05:571:05:59

..no-nonsense centre.

1:06:011:06:03

I do believe that, and I've had nearly 91 years' experience

1:06:051:06:11

and I do want to thank you all for coming.

1:06:111:06:14

It's just lovely to see you

1:06:141:06:17

and now I'm all ready to say hello to everybody.

1:06:171:06:22

LAUGHTER

1:06:221:06:23

And you're wonderful. And John has been fantastic.

1:06:231:06:27

I never thought this day...

1:06:271:06:30

Well, I mean, talk about hope...

1:06:301:06:32

LAUGHTER

1:06:321:06:34

..but I always HOPED it might come,

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and it has come.

1:06:371:06:39

And I can't say what it means to me,

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and to Unity.

1:06:451:06:46

When Daddy...

1:07:561:07:58

..when his coffin was in Holy Trinity Church,

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it was there because the cremation was going to be the next day

1:08:041:08:10

and the day after that was going to be the funeral...

1:08:101:08:13

-I'm cold!

-..and they were rehearsing a nativity play...

-I'm cold!

1:08:131:08:18

And it was children,

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and there were little children dressed as angels,

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and one adorable little angel, plump and confident,

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and she put her elbow on the coffin.

1:08:321:08:36

She was just doing this.

1:08:361:08:39

You don't mind, Mummy?

1:08:391:08:41

She was just doing this, and...

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..I thought how Daddy would have loved to draw that.

1:08:461:08:52

There was something brilliant about it.

1:08:521:08:55

That's what I wanted to say.

1:08:591:09:01

Yeah. Well...

1:09:061:09:08

"Writing this letter has been strange.

1:09:201:09:23

"I feel as though I am writing to people in general

1:09:231:09:27

"rather than to you specifically.

1:09:271:09:29

"At the same time, the thought of writing a personal letter to you

1:09:291:09:35

"feels almost impossible,

1:09:351:09:37

"perhaps because I felt so much grief when you died.

1:09:371:09:40

"This lasted a long time in various ways.

1:09:441:09:48

"I'm so glad that's far in the past.

1:09:481:09:51

"And maybe getting too close would feel unwise...

1:09:531:09:57

"..but my love for you, Daddy, is deep and enduring for always,

1:09:591:10:04

"as is my love for Mummy.

1:10:041:10:07

"If someone told me you were both at the bottom of my road now,

1:10:071:10:12

"I would run like the wind to you both and envelop you in my arms

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"and hug you and kiss you.

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"All I can do now is say goodbye, God be with you,

1:10:201:10:25

"and to give lots and lots of love to Mummy and to you

1:10:251:10:30

"and to send you your grandson's love...

1:10:301:10:33

"..even though he does not know I'm sending it to you.

1:10:341:10:38

"This is getting like the ending of some of Beethoven's works,

1:10:381:10:43

"where he can't decide how and when to end a piece of music."

1:10:431:10:49

MUSIC: Prelude in C Major by Johann Sebastian Bach

1:10:531:10:58

It's very strange having Unity in a different place.

1:13:241:13:29

What was the last 18 months like?

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Wonderful.

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Difficult.

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At times, sad.

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At times, very happy.

1:13:451:13:48

But I really felt there's only one Unity and...

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..she does it well. But...

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I say she wasn't too bad,

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and when I say something like that, it just is...

1:14:081:14:13

.."I love you, dear." And...

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And one knows what I really mean.

1:14:211:14:24

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