Browse content similar to Degas and the Little Dancer. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
£18,500,000... £19,000,000 and £4,000,000... | 0:00:02 | 0:00:05 | |
The art world, a place of outrageous fortune. | 0:00:05 | 0:00:09 | |
95, selling at 95,000,000. | 0:00:09 | 0:00:11 | |
But beneath the surface lurks danger. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:14 | |
I probably turned out about 200 fakes over a six, seven year period. | 0:00:14 | 0:00:18 | |
You're committing fraud on a grand scale. | 0:00:18 | 0:00:22 | |
International art dealer Philip Mould uncovers sleepers, | 0:00:22 | 0:00:25 | |
pictures with a secret past. | 0:00:25 | 0:00:28 | |
Now he's bringing his detective skills to solve more mysteries locked in paint. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:33 | |
In the past we looked at pictures, | 0:00:33 | 0:00:35 | |
now almost you can look through them. | 0:00:35 | 0:00:37 | |
I'm Fiona Bruce. As a journalist I'm used to hunting for facts. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:40 | |
We're teaming up for a new series of investigations. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:44 | |
This case will be one of the most challenging we've ever faced | 0:00:46 | 0:00:49 | |
as we try and prove that this little dancer | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
was painted by one of the world's most famous artists. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:56 | |
Our investigation takes us from the ballet in Paris... | 0:00:57 | 0:01:01 | |
That's it, isn't it? I mean, that is it. | 0:01:01 | 0:01:03 | |
To Germany, and the biggest forgery scandal of modern times. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:07 | |
When these paintings were thought to be genuine, | 0:01:08 | 0:01:10 | |
how much were they worth? | 0:01:10 | 0:01:12 | |
Millions. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:14 | |
With cutting-edge science and new research, | 0:01:14 | 0:01:16 | |
can we persuade the world's experts to accept it as a genuine work? | 0:01:16 | 0:01:20 | |
If it is a fake, it's a very good one. | 0:01:22 | 0:01:24 | |
This is, I think, on a knife edge. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:26 | |
Mayfair, London. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:47 | |
Where the very well-heeled come in search of jewellery, | 0:01:47 | 0:01:51 | |
fashion and fine art. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:53 | |
Fancy a bit of window shopping? | 0:01:53 | 0:01:56 | |
I wouldn't say no. | 0:01:56 | 0:01:57 | |
Many a multi-million pound deal has taken place behind these doors. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:03 | |
So what do you think of that dreamy little Monet? | 0:02:03 | 0:02:06 | |
That could look rather tasty above your fireplace. | 0:02:06 | 0:02:09 | |
Now guess how much that is. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:11 | |
I don't know, you know I hate guessing! | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
What would you say? | 0:02:14 | 0:02:15 | |
-North of a million pounds. -Wow. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:19 | |
It's amazing, isn't it, just think - it's a piece of canvas | 0:02:19 | 0:02:21 | |
and just the power of the artist's imagination and you get a value like that. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:26 | |
Yeah, but it's also because the art world's authorities | 0:02:26 | 0:02:29 | |
agree on its authenticity. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:32 | |
I mean, this can be a street of broken dreams. | 0:02:32 | 0:02:35 | |
I mean, for every picture that's fully accepted | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
there are hundreds with question marks above their head. | 0:02:37 | 0:02:42 | |
Which is where we come in. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:43 | |
Patrick Rice and his son Jonathan have made an appointment | 0:02:50 | 0:02:53 | |
to show us a painting that has had a question mark over it for decades. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:57 | |
-Hi there. You must be Patrick. -Hello. -Fiona, nice to meet you. | 0:02:59 | 0:03:03 | |
But they believe it's an important work | 0:03:03 | 0:03:06 | |
by one of the world's most sought-after artists. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:09 | |
Here's the painting. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:10 | |
So this is the painting. Can I unwrap it? | 0:03:10 | 0:03:14 | |
Yes, please. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:15 | |
Oh, my word! | 0:03:23 | 0:03:25 | |
-Degas, it says. -Yes. -Gosh. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:36 | |
It certainly looks like a Degas. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:40 | |
One of his dancers. Well, that's a typical Degas subject, isn't it? | 0:03:40 | 0:03:44 | |
-I think it is, yes. -Well, dancers by Degas, | 0:03:44 | 0:03:48 | |
I mean it's one of those great cliches out there, isn't it? | 0:03:48 | 0:03:51 | |
Yes, well, it's interesting because obviously in some ways the main subjects | 0:03:51 | 0:03:55 | |
are the double basses coming out at the front, you know, | 0:03:55 | 0:03:58 | |
which gives it a rather dark quality | 0:03:58 | 0:04:01 | |
but I think it's a very interesting painting. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:04 | |
And how did you come by certainly what looks like a painting | 0:04:04 | 0:04:09 | |
by one of the great Impressionist masters? | 0:04:09 | 0:04:12 | |
Well, my father bought it at the end of the war from Knoedler's. | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
-Which was an art dealer. -Yes. | 0:04:15 | 0:04:18 | |
And presumably it wasn't cheap? | 0:04:18 | 0:04:21 | |
No, no, I think it probably was about the right sort of market price | 0:04:21 | 0:04:24 | |
-for the time, £800. -£800, just after the War. -Yes. | 0:04:24 | 0:04:29 | |
-That's the equivalent of £20,000 in today's money. -Yes. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:33 | |
Patrick's father, Edward Denis Rice, was a gentleman farmer from Kent | 0:04:34 | 0:04:39 | |
who married an American heiress in the 1930s. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:43 | |
The family fortune gradually disappeared at the end of the 20th century | 0:04:43 | 0:04:47 | |
and the painting is one of the few surviving mementoes of a more prosperous age. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:53 | |
But Danseuse Bleue, the Blue Dancer, doesn't appear | 0:04:53 | 0:04:57 | |
in the official record of Degas works, the Catalogue Raisonne, | 0:04:57 | 0:05:02 | |
and one expert who examined it in 2009 expressed doubts about its authenticity. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:07 | |
What didn't he like about the painting? | 0:05:10 | 0:05:12 | |
There were a few things. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:14 | |
The face of the dancer, which I think he called trivial, | 0:05:14 | 0:05:18 | |
the position of it, I think he said it was not a formal pose. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:24 | |
And the draughtsmanship of the heads of the double bass and then, | 0:05:24 | 0:05:28 | |
the other one, I guess the bigger one, would be the signature. | 0:05:28 | 0:05:32 | |
Did he not think it looked like a Degas signature? | 0:05:32 | 0:05:35 | |
He had problems with it. | 0:05:35 | 0:05:36 | |
Without the Catalogue Raisonne, | 0:05:38 | 0:05:40 | |
without the expert backup, it's extremely difficult to sell. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:44 | |
If this is Degas, what's it worth? | 0:05:46 | 0:05:49 | |
Well, it's easier to ask what it would be worth if it weren't by Degas - | 0:05:50 | 0:05:55 | |
-probably a few hundred pounds. -Yeah. | 0:05:55 | 0:05:57 | |
-As a work by Degas, possibly half a million. -Yeah. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:03 | |
So, if you succeed in proving that this is by Degas, | 0:06:03 | 0:06:06 | |
what do you have in mind for it? | 0:06:06 | 0:06:09 | |
Well, it was handed on to me by my sister in order to help my side of the family. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:15 | |
You know, it is very valuable and the best way that it can be useful | 0:06:15 | 0:06:20 | |
to the whole family is to sell it. I think whatever happens, | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
it's going to be extremely interesting to clear up the whole mystery of it. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:27 | |
The stakes couldn't be higher for Patrick's painting. | 0:06:35 | 0:06:38 | |
Degas is one of the most popular artists in the world. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:41 | |
He's been the subject of blockbuster exhibitions | 0:06:42 | 0:06:45 | |
and his works take pride of place in galleries such as the Courtauld Institute in London. | 0:06:45 | 0:06:51 | |
I'm going to show you just how high the bar is set. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:55 | |
I mean, if we're going to prove that Patrick's picture is by Degas, | 0:06:55 | 0:06:58 | |
it's going to need to have all the hallmarks of the master who did this. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:03 | |
Just beautiful, isn't it? | 0:07:10 | 0:07:11 | |
Isn't that feeling of artificial lighting extraordinary? | 0:07:17 | 0:07:20 | |
The shadow of the rose on her dress, is cast in that very dramatic way. | 0:07:20 | 0:07:24 | |
It's almost like a snapshot, isn't it, | 0:07:28 | 0:07:31 | |
frozen in mid-pose. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:33 | |
I mean what I love about it is, I mean you know like so many women, | 0:07:35 | 0:07:39 | |
I did a tiny bit of ballet, sort of clumping around the village hall, | 0:07:39 | 0:07:42 | |
-when I was small... -Clumping?! | 0:07:42 | 0:07:45 | |
Absolutely, and it is every little girl's kind of dream, | 0:07:45 | 0:07:49 | |
those impossibly frothy toile, lighter-than-air skirts. | 0:07:49 | 0:07:55 | |
He used the ballet like some artists used landscapes, | 0:07:55 | 0:08:00 | |
others used still lives, to conquer all the great quests in art - | 0:08:00 | 0:08:04 | |
feeling of light, feeling of colour, feeling of atmosphere. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
Feeling of movement. | 0:08:08 | 0:08:09 | |
And movement of course, yes. | 0:08:09 | 0:08:11 | |
And do you think our painting can live up to that? | 0:08:12 | 0:08:17 | |
I mean, it is a tall order, isn't it, | 0:08:17 | 0:08:19 | |
however this is a much bigger picture. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:22 | |
Probably you could say rather more ambitious | 0:08:22 | 0:08:26 | |
and I think there's enough trace elements for us to take Patrick's picture seriously. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:32 | |
I really don't think this rules it out. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
Trouble is, Patrick's picture is not in the Catalogue Raisonne, | 0:08:35 | 0:08:38 | |
and this painting of course is. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:41 | |
Yep, and there it is. | 0:08:41 | 0:08:43 | |
425, stamped, numbered, provenance there written up. | 0:08:43 | 0:08:49 | |
I mean, we've got to find a way of getting Patrick's picture into this. | 0:08:50 | 0:08:54 | |
Back in Philip's gallery, it's time to assess the challenge ahead | 0:09:06 | 0:09:10 | |
with the help of our head of research Dr Bendor Grosvenor, | 0:09:10 | 0:09:13 | |
a man with an acute eye for art and a keen instinct for evidence. | 0:09:13 | 0:09:19 | |
I've been having a look at a high-resolution scan of Patrick's picture here | 0:09:19 | 0:09:23 | |
and I think once you get your head round the composition | 0:09:23 | 0:09:25 | |
it's actually quite an intriguing prospect. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
So, we've obviously got a little ballet dancer on a stage | 0:09:28 | 0:09:30 | |
and then I think to the right of her, | 0:09:30 | 0:09:32 | |
seems to me like a sort of grotto, background scenery | 0:09:32 | 0:09:35 | |
and then on the left what looks like a seascape. | 0:09:35 | 0:09:38 | |
And those dark looming shapes in the foreground | 0:09:39 | 0:09:42 | |
are in fact double bass heads. | 0:09:42 | 0:09:45 | |
So, this is an orchestra pit and what we're seeing is a performance. | 0:09:45 | 0:09:49 | |
Those double bass heads are rather awkward, aren't they? | 0:09:51 | 0:09:54 | |
Or interesting, depending on your point of view. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
I mean, it would be good to know if Degas painted that kind of thing in that way. | 0:09:57 | 0:10:02 | |
But he likes a challenge, Degas, he does awkward. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:06 | |
OK, so what do we know about the picture's history, its provenance? | 0:10:06 | 0:10:10 | |
Well, very helpfully for me, Patrick still has the original invoice | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
from when his family bought the picture in 1945 | 0:10:13 | 0:10:16 | |
and at the bottom of the invoice it says "provenance." | 0:10:16 | 0:10:19 | |
"This picture was bought direct from the Artist by Goupil & Co." | 0:10:19 | 0:10:23 | |
They were a famous firm of art dealers in the 19th century, | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
"In 1882, and sold by them to Monsieur Emile Heilbuth, | 0:10:26 | 0:10:30 | |
"Founder and editor of the well-known art magazine | 0:10:30 | 0:10:33 | |
"Kunst und Kunstler of Berlin, and now comes from his daughter." | 0:10:33 | 0:10:37 | |
So, we've got a previous owner who was an editor of an art magazine | 0:10:37 | 0:10:40 | |
who bought it from a dealer who bought it from Degas himself. | 0:10:40 | 0:10:44 | |
That's pretty compelling, isn't it? | 0:10:44 | 0:10:46 | |
It is if we can make it all add up. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:48 | |
Unfortunately I think I've spotted a mistake already in this legend. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:53 | |
It says here that the picture was bought in 1882 from Degas, | 0:10:53 | 0:10:56 | |
but we know that Degas was only dealing with another dealer, | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
Paul Durand-Ruel, until 1887, so the dates don't quite work. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:04 | |
So, how worried should we be about that? | 0:11:04 | 0:11:07 | |
Does that mean it's a fake? | 0:11:07 | 0:11:08 | |
I don't think we should get too hung up on this. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:10 | |
This was, remember, 50 years after Degas sold it, it was passed | 0:11:10 | 0:11:14 | |
from father to daughter, you know, things get lost in that process. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:18 | |
The crucial thing though is to find it physically written in the Goupil Stock Book. | 0:11:18 | 0:11:23 | |
Philip, you're always saying that you can tell as much about a painting from the back as the front, | 0:11:23 | 0:11:28 | |
so is there anything on the back of this painting that can help us? | 0:11:28 | 0:11:31 | |
I'm glad you remembered that but I'm afraid, in this instance, | 0:11:31 | 0:11:34 | |
it's a red herring. There is something on the back | 0:11:34 | 0:11:37 | |
but it's a Christie's stencil. | 0:11:37 | 0:11:39 | |
And Patrick's family took it to Christie's in the 1970s | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
when he was trying to get it authenticated then. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:44 | |
But it's not necessarily a bad thing that we haven't found | 0:11:44 | 0:11:46 | |
exhibition labels and signs of it being out in the public. | 0:11:46 | 0:11:50 | |
This was a private painting that didn't get that light of day. | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
Hmmm, well OK, so putting the back of the painting | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
and the provenance to one side then, is there anything else | 0:11:57 | 0:12:01 | |
we can do to establish whether or not this is a genuine Degas? | 0:12:01 | 0:12:03 | |
I mean this has had some serious accusations thrown against it. | 0:12:03 | 0:12:07 | |
We need now to try and rebuff those. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:09 | |
If there's any new evidence we can unearth at all, | 0:12:09 | 0:12:13 | |
then it might just mean that the people who are compiling | 0:12:13 | 0:12:16 | |
the Catalogue Raisonne will at last put it in. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:18 | |
Our search begins in Degas's hometown. | 0:12:26 | 0:12:30 | |
Paris. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:31 | |
First stop, the Musee D'Orsay. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:38 | |
Once a railway station, it now houses one of the world's finest collections | 0:12:46 | 0:12:50 | |
of Impressionist art, including some of Degas's most important paintings and sculptures. | 0:12:50 | 0:12:56 | |
So, this is the man, Edgar Degas. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:03 | |
He was 21 when he painted this self-portrait, | 0:13:04 | 0:13:07 | |
but he was looking back in those days, | 0:13:07 | 0:13:09 | |
he's looking back to the Old Masters who really influenced him. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:12 | |
So, how did this rather stiff, self-conscious looking | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
young man turn into the artist who created paintings full of vibrancy | 0:13:17 | 0:13:21 | |
and movement, and who may have created Patrick's painting? | 0:13:21 | 0:13:25 | |
The son of a wealthy banker, Edgar Degas was born in Paris in 1834 | 0:13:29 | 0:13:35 | |
and briefly trained as a lawyer before becoming an artist. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:39 | |
The seriousness of his early work gave way to something altogether more daring | 0:13:39 | 0:13:44 | |
and expressive when he discovered the bohemian world of the stage, | 0:13:44 | 0:13:49 | |
as curator Xavier Rey explains. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:52 | |
Xavier, nice to meet you. | 0:13:52 | 0:13:55 | |
Nice to meet you and welcome at the Musee d'Orsay. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:57 | |
Thank you. | 0:13:57 | 0:13:59 | |
This particular painting, what can you tell us about it? | 0:13:59 | 0:14:02 | |
This painting is one of the first ballet scenes by Degas | 0:14:02 | 0:14:05 | |
and it's a view that was very unusual for that time, | 0:14:05 | 0:14:09 | |
when you see the orchestra in the foreground | 0:14:09 | 0:14:12 | |
and just the legs of the dancers of the background. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
But you notice something similar to Patrick's picture? | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
Of course, the composition with the double bass sticking up | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
into the stage area. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:23 | |
But in the same way that the double basses | 0:14:23 | 0:14:26 | |
somehow link you with the stage in Patrick's picture, so too this | 0:14:26 | 0:14:32 | |
seems to sort of, almost like a ladder | 0:14:32 | 0:14:34 | |
up into all the effervescent colour. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:36 | |
Well, that's fascinating and it makes Patrick's picture | 0:14:36 | 0:14:39 | |
seem slightly less outlandish. | 0:14:39 | 0:14:41 | |
There's a continuity of thought there between this painting and Patrick's. | 0:14:41 | 0:14:44 | |
You could see, exactly, you could see how the idea evolved. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:48 | |
In 1874, a radical group of painters called the Impressionists | 0:14:49 | 0:14:54 | |
staged their first exhibition in Paris. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:57 | |
Alongside works by Monet and Renoir was a painting by Degas | 0:14:59 | 0:15:04 | |
that showcased everything he was passionate about in art. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
So, this painting shows what the ballet scenes will be all Degas's career. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:16 | |
A study of movement, of different poses of ballet dancers | 0:15:16 | 0:15:21 | |
and also the study of the artificial light. | 0:15:21 | 0:15:24 | |
Could Patrick's little Blue Dancer claim a rightful place | 0:15:27 | 0:15:30 | |
on stage with the rest of Degas's ballerinas? | 0:15:30 | 0:15:33 | |
We need to take our research a step further | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
and find out more about how Degas painted his favourite subject. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:41 | |
It was a real thrill to see the realism of the poses, | 0:15:49 | 0:15:53 | |
of the dancers, you know, scratching, yawning, | 0:15:53 | 0:15:56 | |
tying up a ballet shoe, fastening a ribbon, and I don't know enough | 0:15:56 | 0:16:01 | |
about ballet to assess whether the dancer's pose in Patrick's painting | 0:16:01 | 0:16:06 | |
is realistic in the way that Degas would have painted. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:09 | |
No, that's something you need to check out further. | 0:16:09 | 0:16:12 | |
I mean, we've seen a lot of evidence today, but provenance is an issue | 0:16:12 | 0:16:17 | |
and it's something I'm going to need to tighten up. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:20 | |
At the time we think Patrick's picture was painted, | 0:16:23 | 0:16:26 | |
in the 1880s, Degas was frequently attending ballet performances | 0:16:26 | 0:16:30 | |
here at the Palais Garnier, a spectacular opera house | 0:16:30 | 0:16:33 | |
in the heart of Paris. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:35 | |
I'm following in Degas's footsteps to get an insight into the world | 0:16:37 | 0:16:41 | |
that inspired him, and to search for evidence that might help prove | 0:16:41 | 0:16:45 | |
he painted our Blue Dancer. | 0:16:45 | 0:16:47 | |
I want to find out if the scene depicted in Patrick's picture, | 0:17:05 | 0:17:09 | |
bears any relation to a performance Degas would have seen here. | 0:17:09 | 0:17:12 | |
Archivist Mathias Auclair has searched out visual records | 0:17:12 | 0:17:16 | |
of two ballets that featured a grotto and seascape | 0:17:16 | 0:17:19 | |
as part of the set, Sylvia and The Tempest. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:23 | |
We have photographs of the set of Sylvia, | 0:17:23 | 0:17:27 | |
and you can see it's Greek style with a temple. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
It's a bit of a stretch, isn't it, but I mean there is some water here, | 0:17:32 | 0:17:36 | |
and a sense of an arch, but that's probably about it. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:40 | |
The other one that's been suggested is possibly The Tempest, | 0:17:41 | 0:17:44 | |
have you got anything about The Tempest from this time? | 0:17:44 | 0:17:46 | |
-Yes, we have... -From 1889. -Design of the costumes. | 0:17:46 | 0:17:49 | |
Gosh, this wasp waist here. Is that some designer's idealised version of a woman? | 0:17:51 | 0:17:56 | |
Perhaps this one with the electric blue because it's... | 0:18:06 | 0:18:13 | |
Yeah, yeah...and the shape and the style of the skirt, | 0:18:13 | 0:18:17 | |
of the tutu, the headdress. | 0:18:17 | 0:18:20 | |
Maybe. | 0:18:20 | 0:18:21 | |
Possibly, yes. | 0:18:21 | 0:18:24 | |
After a glimpse of the costumes in the archives, | 0:18:26 | 0:18:29 | |
and those hanging now in the costume department, | 0:18:29 | 0:18:32 | |
it's easy to understand why Degas once said his chief interest lay | 0:18:32 | 0:18:35 | |
in rendering movement and painting pretty clothes. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:40 | |
But I'm still hoping the ballet might provide us | 0:18:40 | 0:18:42 | |
with more compelling evidence to support Patrick's picture, | 0:18:42 | 0:18:45 | |
and on the other side of town, Philip is on the hunt for more clues | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
about the painting's history. | 0:18:48 | 0:18:50 | |
According to Patrick's invoice, we should be able to trace his painting | 0:18:57 | 0:19:01 | |
right back to the moment it left Degas's studio. | 0:19:01 | 0:19:05 | |
It's a tantalising prospect, | 0:19:05 | 0:19:07 | |
but all I've got to go on are two names, Goupil and Heilbuth. | 0:19:07 | 0:19:12 | |
To find out more, I've come to visit the archives of the man who managed Degas's business affairs, | 0:19:13 | 0:19:19 | |
renowned art dealer Paul Durand-Ruel. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:23 | |
He was well acquainted with all the players in the Paris art scene | 0:19:23 | 0:19:26 | |
and his descendants Flavie and Paul-Louis have been searching | 0:19:26 | 0:19:30 | |
his records for information about the names on our list. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:34 | |
The first stage in our provenance is that we have a record of the picture | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
being sold by Degas to Goupil. Now, who is Goupil? | 0:19:38 | 0:19:42 | |
Goupil was mainly a seller and producer of lithographs and prints, | 0:19:42 | 0:19:50 | |
but then Theo Van Gogh, the brother of the painter Vincent, | 0:19:50 | 0:19:54 | |
worked with Goupil and was a very astute dealer | 0:19:54 | 0:19:58 | |
and he brought quite a lot of business to Goupil. | 0:19:58 | 0:20:03 | |
This is good news for us. | 0:20:04 | 0:20:06 | |
Degas was notoriously picky about who he did business with | 0:20:06 | 0:20:10 | |
but he trusted Theo Van Gogh | 0:20:10 | 0:20:12 | |
and sold him some paintings of dancers between 1887 and 1891. | 0:20:12 | 0:20:17 | |
So, there's a real chance that Van Gogh's brother would | 0:20:19 | 0:20:22 | |
have bought our picture? | 0:20:22 | 0:20:24 | |
-Yes. -Well, there's a thought. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:26 | |
The last owner of this picture was a chap called Emil Heilbuth, | 0:20:27 | 0:20:31 | |
who had a German connection, can you tell us anything about him? | 0:20:31 | 0:20:35 | |
Well, Durand-Ruel had quite a long and active relationship | 0:20:37 | 0:20:41 | |
with Heilbuth, he was sort of an unofficial agent in Germany. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:47 | |
He knew collectors there and acted as a middleman. | 0:20:47 | 0:20:51 | |
This is intriguing stuff. Emil Heilbuth, the previous owner of Patrick's picture, | 0:20:51 | 0:20:56 | |
wasn't just the editor of a German magazine, he was also an art dealer | 0:20:56 | 0:21:01 | |
and he seems to have been a keen buyer of Degas's works. | 0:21:01 | 0:21:04 | |
You have here Degas bought by Heilbuth on 25th of October 1895. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:11 | |
Ah, now that's interesting, because it shows that Heilbuth | 0:21:11 | 0:21:15 | |
has a particular interest in this artist Degas. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:17 | |
With Fiona and I following up leads in Paris, Bendor and Jonathan | 0:21:19 | 0:21:23 | |
turn their attention to the criticisms levelled at the painting. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:27 | |
The auction house Christie's had expressed interest in the picture | 0:21:27 | 0:21:30 | |
in 2009 until a Degas expert they consulted | 0:21:30 | 0:21:34 | |
found fault with the dancer's face and the artist's signature. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:38 | |
But are there grounds for a second opinion? | 0:21:38 | 0:21:41 | |
So, we've got here three absolutely authentic Degas signatures | 0:21:42 | 0:21:46 | |
on different pictures, but I don't know about you, but to me | 0:21:46 | 0:21:49 | |
they look as if they could all perhaps be by a different artist. | 0:21:49 | 0:21:52 | |
-That one's very sort of rapidly painted, isn't it? -Yeah. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:55 | |
And what I like about this one at the bottom is your expert | 0:21:56 | 0:21:59 | |
said that the G was a little bit problematic | 0:21:59 | 0:22:01 | |
but I find that quite similar to yours. | 0:22:01 | 0:22:03 | |
Yeah, absolutely. | 0:22:03 | 0:22:04 | |
And then here we've also got the sort of hook of the D. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:07 | |
Yeah. And I think with your picture it's quite interesting | 0:22:07 | 0:22:11 | |
because it's quite small it's different from doing a... | 0:22:11 | 0:22:15 | |
a signature on a big finished painting, and it's a little bit like | 0:22:15 | 0:22:18 | |
when you're trying to sign your own signature | 0:22:18 | 0:22:20 | |
on the back of a credit card. You always get it wrong, don't you, | 0:22:20 | 0:22:23 | |
it doesn't quite look like your normal signature, | 0:22:23 | 0:22:25 | |
but maybe that's what was going on with Degas here. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:29 | |
If I was forging that picture, I think I would go out there | 0:22:29 | 0:22:32 | |
-to make the signature look... -Look really good. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:34 | |
More like a Degas signature. So, the fact that it looks peculiar, | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
-could actually be an argument in its favour. -Hmm. | 0:22:37 | 0:22:40 | |
What else did the connoisseur not like about your picture? | 0:22:41 | 0:22:44 | |
He had concerns over the face of the dancer. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
The face of the dancer, right. | 0:22:47 | 0:22:49 | |
He described it sort of "trivial features". | 0:22:49 | 0:22:51 | |
I mean, I suppose you can see what he means in a way, | 0:22:53 | 0:22:56 | |
because it is a little bit awkward, isn't it? | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
With that funny little sort of grimace | 0:22:58 | 0:23:01 | |
and that funny little pair of eyes. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
Well, it's a very subjective thing. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:06 | |
Even though it is sort of very simply drawn | 0:23:06 | 0:23:09 | |
I think it's also very sort of competently drawn. | 0:23:09 | 0:23:12 | |
Well, I've been having a little look amongst other Degas. | 0:23:14 | 0:23:16 | |
What I think's really interesting is that the faces of these little figures | 0:23:16 | 0:23:20 | |
-are actually, you could call them trivialised too, couldn't you? -Yeah. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:23 | |
I mean, this one here looks like it was drawn by a five-year-old. | 0:23:23 | 0:23:25 | |
Yeah, it does. | 0:23:25 | 0:23:26 | |
And we've got some more examples here. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:28 | |
Again you could say that these are rather trivial faces, | 0:23:28 | 0:23:31 | |
couldn't you? | 0:23:31 | 0:23:32 | |
So, I think what we're dealing with here is... | 0:23:32 | 0:23:34 | |
It's quite difficult to actually make a firm opinion on a little face | 0:23:35 | 0:23:38 | |
like that because in real life it's tiny, | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
isn't it, I mean look, it's not even half a centimetre big. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:45 | |
The Degas expert who examined Patrick's painting | 0:23:55 | 0:23:58 | |
was also critical of the dancer's pose. | 0:23:58 | 0:24:00 | |
As an artist, Degas was meticulous about the way | 0:24:02 | 0:24:04 | |
he portrayed his dancers, depicting realistic ballet positions. | 0:24:04 | 0:24:08 | |
But can we prove that the dancer in Patrick's painting | 0:24:10 | 0:24:13 | |
is balanced in an authentic ballet pose? | 0:24:13 | 0:24:16 | |
Back in the Palais Garnier in Paris, | 0:24:22 | 0:24:25 | |
I enlisted the help of the head of ballet, a dancer, and a photographer | 0:24:25 | 0:24:29 | |
to try and recreate the scene. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:31 | |
We have here a picture which may or may not be by Degas, | 0:24:36 | 0:24:40 | |
but the important thing I wanted you to look at is the pose of this dancer. | 0:24:40 | 0:24:45 | |
Viviane, is this pose wrong? | 0:24:45 | 0:24:48 | |
Well, what we're wondering, Leonore, is if you could take that position, | 0:25:00 | 0:25:03 | |
we could catch a snapshot of it and then we could compare it with this. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:07 | |
-Yes. -Yeah? Great. | 0:25:07 | 0:25:09 | |
Sebastian, do you want to, let's see if we can capture that. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:12 | |
Degas was fascinated by the new technique of photography. | 0:25:21 | 0:25:26 | |
He got his first camera in 1895 | 0:25:26 | 0:25:28 | |
and used it to take photos of himself and his artist friends. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:32 | |
But in an age when taking a photo was a slow and laborious process, | 0:25:35 | 0:25:39 | |
Degas still had the edge in his art, | 0:25:39 | 0:25:41 | |
capturing the turn of a heel or the twirl of a skirt | 0:25:41 | 0:25:45 | |
in a way that the early photographers could only dream of. | 0:25:45 | 0:25:49 | |
Now I don't want to be fussy but I think she's looking down. | 0:25:49 | 0:25:51 | |
-Ah yeah, yeah, yeah. -I think she's looking down like that. | 0:25:51 | 0:25:54 | |
C'est un problem? | 0:25:54 | 0:25:57 | |
Is that a problem, would you not naturally do that, or...? | 0:25:57 | 0:26:00 | |
Or it's OK? Oh, brilliant, OK. | 0:26:00 | 0:26:04 | |
SHE SPEAKS IN FRENCH | 0:26:04 | 0:26:06 | |
So, the position's not fixed, you're swaying. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:08 | |
IN FRENCH | 0:26:08 | 0:26:09 | |
So, so, yes, looking down, facing forward. | 0:26:21 | 0:26:25 | |
That's exactly it, I think. That's it, isn't it? | 0:26:35 | 0:26:38 | |
I mean, that is it. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:39 | |
Good. | 0:26:41 | 0:26:43 | |
Thanks very much. | 0:26:43 | 0:26:45 | |
The third one. | 0:26:56 | 0:26:58 | |
That's it. | 0:26:58 | 0:26:59 | |
I mean, that's real progress for us. Degas could have painted that. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:03 | |
Oh, look at that. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
I have to say that is better than I expected. | 0:27:08 | 0:27:10 | |
Thank you, thank you, Leonore. That's just great. | 0:27:10 | 0:27:13 | |
After a fruitful trip to Paris, we reconvene back at Philip's gallery. | 0:27:17 | 0:27:21 | |
Bendor has been looking for hard evidence to back up the story | 0:27:21 | 0:27:24 | |
on Patrick's invoice and he thinks he's found it. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:27 | |
Now, I've been having a look in the Goupil & Co Stock Books | 0:27:29 | 0:27:33 | |
and there is a reference to what could be our picture, | 0:27:33 | 0:27:36 | |
it's here in 1889, stock number 19873 | 0:27:36 | 0:27:42 | |
and the title of the picture is Danseuse Bleue Et Contrebasses, | 0:27:42 | 0:27:45 | |
which means Blue Dancer and Double Basses, | 0:27:45 | 0:27:47 | |
and it was bought from Degas for 600 francs. | 0:27:47 | 0:27:50 | |
Then in the final Goupil Stock Book instalment, | 0:27:50 | 0:27:54 | |
we find that the picture was sold to Heilbuth. | 0:27:54 | 0:27:58 | |
On paper the provenance is all very convincing, but we need to prove | 0:27:58 | 0:28:02 | |
that the painting Patrick has now was the same picture | 0:28:02 | 0:28:05 | |
that's in all these stock books from earlier on. | 0:28:05 | 0:28:08 | |
But I've been going through the Catalogue Raisonne here, | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
with which I've become very familiar, and unfortunately here's a picture | 0:28:11 | 0:28:14 | |
-I think you might recognise. -Gosh, that's almost identical, isn't it? | 0:28:14 | 0:28:18 | |
-To Patrick's painting. -Mm-hm. | 0:28:18 | 0:28:20 | |
It hangs in an art gallery in Hamburg | 0:28:20 | 0:28:22 | |
and it was given to them in the 1920s by a collector, | 0:28:22 | 0:28:26 | |
who bought it in the 1890s from our friend Emil Heilbuth. | 0:28:26 | 0:28:32 | |
Heilbuth? | 0:28:32 | 0:28:33 | |
That's extraordinary because we're dealing with the same provenance, | 0:28:33 | 0:28:38 | |
well, sounds like it, the same composition. | 0:28:38 | 0:28:41 | |
So, we have to ask ourselves, is that going to be a problem? | 0:28:42 | 0:28:46 | |
This is our first serious obstacle. | 0:28:48 | 0:28:51 | |
If the entry in the Goupil Stock Book actually relates to the Hamburg painting, | 0:28:51 | 0:28:56 | |
is Patrick's picture just masquerading as a genuine Degas work? | 0:28:56 | 0:29:01 | |
-Bendor, can we see both pictures side by side? -Yes. | 0:29:01 | 0:29:04 | |
Because surely, I mean look at them, we have to at least consider | 0:29:04 | 0:29:07 | |
the possibility that Patrick's is a copy, you know, a fake? | 0:29:07 | 0:29:11 | |
Well, I share your concerns. | 0:29:11 | 0:29:13 | |
Though presumably if it was fake that would be before 1945, | 0:29:13 | 0:29:16 | |
because after that date it was in the possession of Patrick's family, | 0:29:16 | 0:29:20 | |
-we know that. -Yes, although unfortunately the mention of that year, 1945, | 0:29:20 | 0:29:24 | |
slightly rings alarm bells in our world, wouldn't you say? | 0:29:24 | 0:29:27 | |
I have to say that chilling date can be the kiss of death | 0:29:27 | 0:29:31 | |
to an otherwise decent provenance. | 0:29:31 | 0:29:33 | |
I mean, if you can imagine you've got the end of the Nazi era, | 0:29:33 | 0:29:37 | |
the end of the Second World War chaos... | 0:29:37 | 0:29:39 | |
There are literally thousands of masterpieces that go missing | 0:29:39 | 0:29:42 | |
and it becomes a wonderful smokescreen for forgers | 0:29:42 | 0:29:45 | |
to try and pass off their fakes as those missing originals | 0:29:45 | 0:29:49 | |
and in fact in Germany the police have just been prosecuting | 0:29:49 | 0:29:52 | |
a master forger who was doing exactly that. | 0:29:52 | 0:29:55 | |
Well, maybe then we could talk to the German police about our painting | 0:29:55 | 0:30:00 | |
and see how they spotted their fakes. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:02 | |
I've come to Berlin, to follow up Bendor's lead | 0:30:10 | 0:30:14 | |
about a major investigation into fake artworks with stolen provenances. | 0:30:14 | 0:30:19 | |
I've secured a meeting in the grandly named | 0:30:20 | 0:30:23 | |
State Criminal Police Office Department of Art | 0:30:23 | 0:30:27 | |
with Marcus Schonfelder, one of the detectives who helped convict | 0:30:27 | 0:30:30 | |
Europe's most prolific modern forger, Wolfgang Beltracchi. | 0:30:30 | 0:30:36 | |
He was jailed for six years in 2011 for creating 14 fictitious works | 0:30:37 | 0:30:43 | |
by renowned modern artists, but police believe he faked many more. | 0:30:43 | 0:30:47 | |
We've got French, we've got Dutch, we've got German, | 0:30:50 | 0:30:53 | |
we've got Modernism, we've got Cubism, Surrealism. | 0:30:53 | 0:30:58 | |
I mean, he could turn his hand to anything, couldn't he? | 0:30:59 | 0:31:02 | |
Yeah, it seemed so. | 0:31:02 | 0:31:04 | |
When these paintings were thought to be genuine, | 0:31:04 | 0:31:07 | |
how much were they worth? | 0:31:07 | 0:31:08 | |
-Millions. -Millions? | 0:31:08 | 0:31:11 | |
-Millions. -Wow. | 0:31:11 | 0:31:12 | |
The most valuable I think is the Derain. | 0:31:12 | 0:31:15 | |
For more than 4,000,000. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:19 | |
Wow, and I mean he managed to trick art experts, | 0:31:20 | 0:31:25 | |
gallery owners, museums. | 0:31:25 | 0:31:28 | |
Yes. For a long time, I think for more than 20 years. | 0:31:28 | 0:31:33 | |
The genius of Beltracchi's crime lay in the way he researched paintings | 0:31:34 | 0:31:38 | |
that had gone missing during the Second World War. | 0:31:38 | 0:31:41 | |
He then created his own versions of them, claiming the paintings | 0:31:41 | 0:31:44 | |
had suddenly resurfaced from long-lost Jewish art collections. | 0:31:44 | 0:31:48 | |
He made fake labels for the collections, | 0:31:50 | 0:31:52 | |
soaking them in coffee so they would look old. | 0:31:52 | 0:31:55 | |
Beltracchi's partner Helene even posed beside the fakes | 0:31:57 | 0:32:00 | |
in period dress in a photograph that was doctored to look like it had been taken in the 1920s. | 0:32:00 | 0:32:07 | |
A trick that was only exposed when the police discovered | 0:32:07 | 0:32:09 | |
they'd bought the bronze sculpture in 2003. | 0:32:09 | 0:32:13 | |
And how many did he paint? | 0:32:16 | 0:32:19 | |
In the last interview I heard that he painted works from 50 artists, | 0:32:19 | 0:32:24 | |
so you could count.. | 0:32:24 | 0:32:27 | |
-Dozens and dozens and dozens. Hundreds? -Perhaps. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:30 | |
I don't know, really. That's his knowledge and his... | 0:32:30 | 0:32:34 | |
-And he's keeping it. -And he's keeping it. | 0:32:34 | 0:32:37 | |
So, presumably there are Beltracchi fakes on museum walls still? | 0:32:37 | 0:32:45 | |
-In collections, in galleries? -Perhaps. | 0:32:45 | 0:32:48 | |
The art world fell for Beltracchi's fakes | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
because they had the provenance of the original missing work. | 0:32:51 | 0:32:55 | |
Could someone have played the same trick on Patrick's father in 1945? | 0:32:55 | 0:33:00 | |
Looking at the possible Degas, the sale letter talks of, | 0:33:02 | 0:33:07 | |
it was sold in 1945 and it's written, | 0:33:07 | 0:33:10 | |
a history of who it belonged to. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:13 | |
-But that could be made up, we just don't know. -Yes. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:17 | |
Beltracchi was finally caught when forensic tests | 0:33:19 | 0:33:22 | |
on a suspicious picture revealed the presence of a pigment | 0:33:22 | 0:33:25 | |
that didn't exist at the time it was supposed to have been painted. | 0:33:25 | 0:33:29 | |
My advice would be to go to a scientist to analyse the pigments, | 0:33:32 | 0:33:37 | |
the layers, everything. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:39 | |
-So, expert connoisseurship on its own is not enough? -No, not really. | 0:33:40 | 0:33:44 | |
The Beltracchi case shows how important science can be in exposing fakes. | 0:33:51 | 0:33:56 | |
To be sure that there are no suspicious pigments | 0:33:58 | 0:34:01 | |
in Patrick's picture I've come to University College London | 0:34:01 | 0:34:05 | |
to meet Kathleen Froyen, an art historian with a high-tech gadget | 0:34:05 | 0:34:09 | |
that wouldn't look out of place in a James Bond film. | 0:34:09 | 0:34:12 | |
An art gun that can identify the chemicals in oil paint | 0:34:15 | 0:34:19 | |
and trace them right back to the artist's palette. | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
We're looking for chemical elements, and from the combination of elements | 0:34:24 | 0:34:29 | |
that we find we can deduct which pigments were used. | 0:34:29 | 0:34:33 | |
I see, so every pigment has its own, as it were, | 0:34:33 | 0:34:35 | |
DNA that this gun can pick up. | 0:34:35 | 0:34:38 | |
Yes. On average we'll find about ten to 15 elements. | 0:34:39 | 0:34:43 | |
This is good cos we've actually found mercury here | 0:34:45 | 0:34:48 | |
which means that he used vermillion to paint this very bright red. | 0:34:48 | 0:34:52 | |
I see, so mercury is the sort of bed-fellow of vermillion as it were. | 0:34:52 | 0:34:57 | |
-Yes, it is. -What does vermillion tell us? -Well, the Impressionists, | 0:34:57 | 0:35:00 | |
and Post-Impressionist painters, were particularly attracted to this pigment | 0:35:00 | 0:35:03 | |
because it was a brilliant scarlet, so they loved using it, it really caught their eye. | 0:35:03 | 0:35:08 | |
There is one pigment that we just don't want to find in Patrick's picture. | 0:35:08 | 0:35:14 | |
Titanium White. | 0:35:14 | 0:35:17 | |
Only in use a year after Degas's death in 1917, | 0:35:17 | 0:35:21 | |
its presence would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt | 0:35:21 | 0:35:24 | |
that the painting is a fake. | 0:35:24 | 0:35:26 | |
-So, you're going for the bonnet of the dancer? -I am, yes, | 0:35:27 | 0:35:30 | |
it's the most obvious area where there's white present. | 0:35:30 | 0:35:33 | |
Well, this is very encouraging. As you can see here | 0:35:50 | 0:35:53 | |
the main elements found are lead, which is good because it indicates that probably lead white | 0:35:53 | 0:35:59 | |
was used and not titanium white. | 0:35:59 | 0:36:01 | |
-As opposed to the dreaded titanium. -Yes. | 0:36:01 | 0:36:03 | |
Phew. | 0:36:03 | 0:36:04 | |
Also a combination of copper and arsenic, that we found here, | 0:36:06 | 0:36:09 | |
indicates that most likely he used emerald green, | 0:36:09 | 0:36:13 | |
which is fascinating because it was used a lot in Degas's time, | 0:36:13 | 0:36:18 | |
but throughout the 20th century, kind of phased out | 0:36:18 | 0:36:21 | |
because it was poisonous and the pigment was eventually banned in the 1960s. | 0:36:21 | 0:36:27 | |
Oh, right. Well, that helps us a bit. | 0:36:27 | 0:36:29 | |
The pigments in Patrick's painting seem to be consistent | 0:36:33 | 0:36:36 | |
with the Impressionist period. | 0:36:36 | 0:36:38 | |
There's even evidence of certain colours specific to Degas's palette. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:44 | |
But to be more confident that it isn't just a copy of the one in Germany, | 0:36:50 | 0:36:55 | |
I've brought Patrick and his painting to Hamburg's renowned art gallery. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:59 | |
For the first time in his life | 0:36:59 | 0:37:01 | |
Patrick will be able to compare the two paintings side by side. | 0:37:01 | 0:37:06 | |
Can his Blue Dancer hold its own next to a genuine work | 0:37:06 | 0:37:10 | |
with remarkable similarities? | 0:37:10 | 0:37:13 | |
Ah, there it is. | 0:37:15 | 0:37:16 | |
Ah, yes. | 0:37:17 | 0:37:19 | |
That's an extraordinary moment for me. | 0:37:19 | 0:37:22 | |
Yes, fascinating as the double basses are placed almost exactly | 0:37:24 | 0:37:28 | |
in the same position. It's extraordinary. | 0:37:28 | 0:37:31 | |
Yes, the most obvious | 0:37:31 | 0:37:33 | |
and sort of distinctive difference is in the tone. | 0:37:33 | 0:37:36 | |
This is possibly a more brightly lit scene | 0:37:37 | 0:37:40 | |
and that's a bit more twilight, wouldn't you say? | 0:37:40 | 0:37:44 | |
This has got a... Yes, it is a twilight, heavier look to it. | 0:37:44 | 0:37:48 | |
-This is much more modern looking, really. -Yes. | 0:37:52 | 0:37:55 | |
-It's slightly brasher. -Yes, yes. | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
There's a chunkiness about it which is very pleasing, | 0:37:58 | 0:38:02 | |
actually I think it's lovely. | 0:38:02 | 0:38:04 | |
You're about to say you prefer this. | 0:38:04 | 0:38:06 | |
No, no, no. | 0:38:06 | 0:38:07 | |
Comparing the pictures on the wall is one thing, | 0:38:10 | 0:38:13 | |
but the gallery have agreed to help us go one step further | 0:38:13 | 0:38:17 | |
and take their painting out of its frame for closer inspection. | 0:38:17 | 0:38:21 | |
Meanwhile, I've arrived in Hamburg with a mission of my own. | 0:38:27 | 0:38:31 | |
This was the hometown of the mysterious Emil Heilbuth | 0:38:31 | 0:38:35 | |
and I want to know more about the man who figures prominently | 0:38:35 | 0:38:38 | |
in the provenance of both paintings. | 0:38:38 | 0:38:39 | |
I've come to the gallery's archive to meet historian Dr Alex Bastek. | 0:38:41 | 0:38:46 | |
He's written about Heilbuth's life and career | 0:38:46 | 0:38:49 | |
and shows me the only known photo of him. | 0:38:49 | 0:38:51 | |
He attended the art college in Munich, | 0:38:53 | 0:38:56 | |
and we know that there must be paintings by Heilbuth as well | 0:38:56 | 0:39:01 | |
but we've no images of these at all. | 0:39:01 | 0:39:05 | |
We know him best as an art critic, he wrote for several art magazines | 0:39:05 | 0:39:09 | |
like Kunst und Kunstler, in fact Heilbuth was the first art critic | 0:39:09 | 0:39:14 | |
to write a favourable article about Claude Monet in Germany. | 0:39:14 | 0:39:19 | |
So, he was a supporter of Impressionism in Germany? | 0:39:19 | 0:39:22 | |
-Yes, right. -Now you say he was an art critic but obviously, | 0:39:22 | 0:39:24 | |
I mean, he owned Patrick's painting, so he was, what was he, a collector? | 0:39:24 | 0:39:28 | |
He collected art to re-sell it, he was occasionally working | 0:39:28 | 0:39:32 | |
as an art dealer as well, but most of all to teach the public | 0:39:32 | 0:39:37 | |
what is modern art. He held lessons at the Weimar Kunst Academy | 0:39:37 | 0:39:43 | |
with his three Monet paintings he possessed. | 0:39:43 | 0:39:46 | |
So, he saw it as his mission, did he, to convert people | 0:39:46 | 0:39:50 | |
-to Impressionism and to painters like Degas? -Yes, very much. | 0:39:50 | 0:39:53 | |
We have a quite interesting letter here written in 1893, | 0:39:53 | 0:39:57 | |
where he describes the painting of Degas. | 0:39:57 | 0:40:01 | |
"Greater beauty and achieved with these simple means | 0:40:03 | 0:40:06 | |
"I can not imagine". | 0:40:06 | 0:40:08 | |
That's what he wrote about Degas. | 0:40:09 | 0:40:11 | |
Heilbuth's passion for Degas made him a convincing salesman. | 0:40:13 | 0:40:17 | |
He sold the painting that now hangs in the Hamburg gallery | 0:40:17 | 0:40:20 | |
to a wealthy German collector who proudly displayed it | 0:40:20 | 0:40:23 | |
alongside his Old Masters. | 0:40:23 | 0:40:25 | |
You can just make out the double basses there, | 0:40:28 | 0:40:30 | |
can't you, in the foreground. | 0:40:30 | 0:40:32 | |
Without a photograph of Patrick's painting hanging on Emil Heilbuth's wall, | 0:40:38 | 0:40:42 | |
we can only assume that he kept it all his life | 0:40:42 | 0:40:45 | |
and passed it on to his daughter, as the original invoice suggests. | 0:40:45 | 0:40:49 | |
The fact that Heilbuth never sold the painting | 0:40:49 | 0:40:52 | |
that Patrick certainly believes is by Degas, | 0:40:52 | 0:40:54 | |
do you think that's unusual? | 0:40:54 | 0:40:55 | |
No, there might be several paintings he kept just to possess them, | 0:40:55 | 0:40:59 | |
and to be an art collector as you expect someone to be. | 0:40:59 | 0:41:03 | |
So, not necessarily because he couldn't sell them, | 0:41:03 | 0:41:05 | |
because he didn't want to sell them? | 0:41:05 | 0:41:07 | |
No, just because he loved this one and wanted to possess it. | 0:41:07 | 0:41:11 | |
Back in the gallery's library, | 0:41:12 | 0:41:15 | |
the moment of truth has arrived for Patrick | 0:41:15 | 0:41:17 | |
and me as curator Jenns Howoldt unveils their Degas dancer | 0:41:17 | 0:41:21 | |
and we get the opportunity to make a direct comparison with Patrick's painting. | 0:41:21 | 0:41:26 | |
Hello there, how nice to meet you, | 0:41:26 | 0:41:28 | |
and thank you so much for taking this painting out of its frame for us. | 0:41:28 | 0:41:32 | |
I have to say this is a terrific moment, isn't it, | 0:41:38 | 0:41:40 | |
I mean, there is no better way than comparing art | 0:41:40 | 0:41:44 | |
-than in the flesh like this, is there? -No, absolutely. | 0:41:44 | 0:41:47 | |
I have to say something strikes me, now we're seeing the two, | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
the two patients, as it were, naked, without their clothes on. | 0:41:54 | 0:41:58 | |
Your picture is thicker, the paint has a little bit more depth. | 0:41:58 | 0:42:03 | |
Yes, I noticed that. | 0:42:03 | 0:42:04 | |
The Hamburg painting seems altogether more spontaneous, | 0:42:04 | 0:42:08 | |
even the ground layer of white paint that the surface has been primed with is doing some work. | 0:42:08 | 0:42:15 | |
This makes this picture so interesting, | 0:42:15 | 0:42:17 | |
because this has to do with light, | 0:42:17 | 0:42:20 | |
and he uses this areas of the priming as a light source. | 0:42:20 | 0:42:28 | |
And I get the impression that there's more... | 0:42:28 | 0:42:32 | |
..more of a sense of evolution in your painting | 0:42:33 | 0:42:36 | |
as if he's trying to arrive at the composition. | 0:42:36 | 0:42:39 | |
Yeah, I think so, it seems to have involved more of a struggle really. | 0:42:39 | 0:42:43 | |
The other one maybe came much more easily. | 0:42:43 | 0:42:47 | |
Yes, I mean, in your picture, | 0:42:47 | 0:42:48 | |
it looks as though the solution has been arrived at | 0:42:48 | 0:42:51 | |
and he's playing, you know, he's playing with ideas and colours. | 0:42:51 | 0:42:54 | |
Exactly, it's got a lighter touch altogether. | 0:42:54 | 0:42:56 | |
Degas was an experimental artist who liked to try out different | 0:42:56 | 0:43:00 | |
techniques and materials. | 0:43:00 | 0:43:02 | |
As an alternative to canvas, | 0:43:02 | 0:43:04 | |
he occasionally painted on wooden panels. | 0:43:04 | 0:43:07 | |
Patrick's picture is on mahogany, but what about the Hamburg painting? | 0:43:07 | 0:43:12 | |
Do you happen to know what wood yours is made from? | 0:43:12 | 0:43:15 | |
Yes, this is, um... Obviously, it's mahogany. | 0:43:15 | 0:43:18 | |
-It's mahogany? -Yeah. | 0:43:18 | 0:43:21 | |
I mean, there are quite a few possible choices of wood, | 0:43:21 | 0:43:24 | |
so the fact that they're both mahogany I find very encouraging. | 0:43:24 | 0:43:29 | |
And although yours is covered with brown paper | 0:43:29 | 0:43:33 | |
you can see that the edge has been similarly bevelled, | 0:43:33 | 0:43:36 | |
which allows you to fit it into a frame better, | 0:43:36 | 0:43:40 | |
apart from anything else. | 0:43:40 | 0:43:42 | |
But one immediate thing that I've just noticed is this stamp | 0:43:42 | 0:43:47 | |
on the back. Now I wasn't expecting to see that. | 0:43:47 | 0:43:49 | |
Do you know anything about that? | 0:43:49 | 0:43:52 | |
Not exactly, we can read one single word, this is "Paris". | 0:43:52 | 0:43:59 | |
-I should think it's the artist's supplier. -I think that's quite possible. | 0:43:59 | 0:44:04 | |
-But it gives us a lead, another lead. -Yes, yes, yes, it does indeed. | 0:44:04 | 0:44:08 | |
What we've seen today is actually really encouraging | 0:44:10 | 0:44:14 | |
and we've seen two paintings that share very much the same characteristics, | 0:44:14 | 0:44:18 | |
I mean, the same approach to the subject matter, | 0:44:18 | 0:44:21 | |
the same support, seeing how they're both on mahogany. | 0:44:21 | 0:44:25 | |
I have to say I'm slightly more optimistic than I was, | 0:44:25 | 0:44:29 | |
but I still think we've got quite a way to go. | 0:44:29 | 0:44:31 | |
How did you get on? | 0:44:35 | 0:44:37 | |
INAUDIBLE RESPONSE | 0:44:37 | 0:44:39 | |
We both had cause for optimism after our visit to Hamburg, | 0:44:39 | 0:44:42 | |
but we still needed to find out why the painting suddenly appeared | 0:44:42 | 0:44:46 | |
in a London art dealers at the end of the Second World War. | 0:44:46 | 0:44:49 | |
If Patrick's picture is genuine, we have to believe it was in the hands | 0:44:53 | 0:44:57 | |
of Emil Heilbuth's family until this point, | 0:44:57 | 0:45:00 | |
and the only people who can confirm that are Heilbuth's descendants. | 0:45:00 | 0:45:05 | |
But we've made a thrilling break-through. | 0:45:09 | 0:45:11 | |
We've tracked down Heilbuth's great-granddaughter Hilary. | 0:45:11 | 0:45:15 | |
She lives in America but she's flown over here to give us some answers. | 0:45:15 | 0:45:19 | |
Hilary, thank you so much for coming. | 0:45:20 | 0:45:22 | |
Oh, it's a delight, thank you. | 0:45:22 | 0:45:23 | |
Can you trace back the family connection for me? | 0:45:23 | 0:45:26 | |
Emil Heilbuth married an Englishwoman and they had a daughter, Katie, | 0:45:26 | 0:45:31 | |
my grandma, and she had a son Claude, my father, | 0:45:31 | 0:45:35 | |
and there he is when he was at Oxford. | 0:45:35 | 0:45:38 | |
And then it ends with you, for the purposes of our story. | 0:45:38 | 0:45:41 | |
Yes, he had me. | 0:45:41 | 0:45:42 | |
So, is there any specific family memory about the sale of the picture | 0:45:42 | 0:45:47 | |
we're looking into? | 0:45:47 | 0:45:48 | |
Oh, yes. My father specifically recalls | 0:45:48 | 0:45:51 | |
my grandmother having to sell this Degas ballet dancer painting in 1945 | 0:45:51 | 0:45:57 | |
because she needed money. | 0:45:57 | 0:45:58 | |
It's fascinating. | 0:45:58 | 0:45:59 | |
Hilary's grandmother Katie married an Austrian Jew, in 1933. | 0:46:01 | 0:46:06 | |
They lived in Vienna until the rise of the Nazis forced them | 0:46:06 | 0:46:09 | |
to flee with all their belongings. | 0:46:09 | 0:46:11 | |
She had the foresight to get to London, | 0:46:11 | 0:46:14 | |
because that was where her family was, and where my grandma went, | 0:46:14 | 0:46:18 | |
the collection went, after Emil died and left it to her. | 0:46:18 | 0:46:22 | |
So, your grandmother inherited a whole collection from Emil Heilbuth? | 0:46:22 | 0:46:25 | |
-Hmm. -So what sort of names are we talking about? | 0:46:25 | 0:46:29 | |
There were two Manet lithographs, large ones, | 0:46:29 | 0:46:32 | |
there was a Munch painting. | 0:46:32 | 0:46:35 | |
We've still got this little Degas dancer, | 0:46:35 | 0:46:37 | |
is what we've always known it as. | 0:46:37 | 0:46:39 | |
This is a reproduction of it. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:41 | |
It's a very sweet-looking little sketch, isn't it? | 0:46:41 | 0:46:44 | |
It's charming. | 0:46:44 | 0:46:45 | |
So, in terms of the provenance of this painting then, | 0:46:45 | 0:46:48 | |
we're doing pretty well, aren't we? | 0:46:48 | 0:46:50 | |
I mean, if we're tracing it from Degas to Goupil, Degas's dealer, to your great-grandfather... | 0:46:50 | 0:46:57 | |
Down through the family, to your grandmother, | 0:46:59 | 0:47:02 | |
to your father who remembers this painting being sold, | 0:47:02 | 0:47:05 | |
we then pick up the trail at Knoedler's, | 0:47:05 | 0:47:07 | |
the dealers, where we have the document saying it was sold to the Rice family. | 0:47:07 | 0:47:12 | |
I mean, that is an unbroken line of provenance. | 0:47:14 | 0:47:18 | |
-Yes. -Doesn't get much better than that, does it? | 0:47:18 | 0:47:21 | |
I mean it's the sort of evidence that would convince a jury, | 0:47:21 | 0:47:24 | |
but will it convince the Catalogue Raisonne writer? | 0:47:24 | 0:47:27 | |
Hilary's story is compelling | 0:47:29 | 0:47:31 | |
but Bendor might just have found the hard evidence | 0:47:31 | 0:47:34 | |
we need to back it up. A separate entry in the Goupil Stock Books | 0:47:34 | 0:47:38 | |
that proves Emil Heilbuth did buy two virtually identical Degas dancers. | 0:47:38 | 0:47:44 | |
I've found a little nugget of provenance which I think is going to help our cause. | 0:47:44 | 0:47:49 | |
It turns out that the picture in Hamburg, which we know belonged to Heilbuth, | 0:47:49 | 0:47:53 | |
has its own provenance going all the way back to Degas in 1889. | 0:47:53 | 0:47:57 | |
So, there's no question of the provenance of Patrick's picture | 0:47:57 | 0:48:01 | |
being muddled up with the picture in Hamburg. | 0:48:01 | 0:48:03 | |
In fact, the Hamburg picture, ironically, | 0:48:04 | 0:48:07 | |
could actually help us prove Patrick's, | 0:48:07 | 0:48:10 | |
because it could easily be some sort of variance, | 0:48:10 | 0:48:12 | |
some sort of first idea, for the Hamburg painting. | 0:48:12 | 0:48:16 | |
I mean, we sell versions of things all the time. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:18 | |
I mean, Henry VIIIs and Nelsons, coming out of our ears. | 0:48:18 | 0:48:22 | |
Patrick's painting could be a study for the other one, | 0:48:22 | 0:48:25 | |
I mean artists did this, we know that Degas did this | 0:48:25 | 0:48:27 | |
and added to which, they're both on almost identical panels. | 0:48:27 | 0:48:31 | |
Well, I've done some research into the label | 0:48:31 | 0:48:34 | |
which you found on the back of the panel of the picture in Hamburg | 0:48:34 | 0:48:38 | |
and it comes from a firm of artists' suppliers called Rey & Perrot | 0:48:38 | 0:48:43 | |
and their headquarters were just round the corner from Degas's studio. | 0:48:43 | 0:48:46 | |
Annoyingly, we haven't got that stamp on the back of Patrick's picture, | 0:48:46 | 0:48:50 | |
but I have had Patrick's picture X-rayed | 0:48:50 | 0:48:52 | |
and it shows at the very least that it was prepared with a base layer | 0:48:52 | 0:48:57 | |
or a ground layer of lead white paint, which is just how people | 0:48:57 | 0:49:01 | |
like Rey & Perrot used to prepare the panels they sold to artists in Paris. | 0:49:01 | 0:49:06 | |
OK, so both paintings are on the same professionally prepared | 0:49:06 | 0:49:12 | |
19th century artists' supplier panel. | 0:49:12 | 0:49:16 | |
Which is circumstantial at best really, | 0:49:16 | 0:49:18 | |
but then if we add in the pigment analysis that you did | 0:49:18 | 0:49:22 | |
and the provenance, does this mean we are now ready to submit | 0:49:22 | 0:49:26 | |
Patrick's painting to the people who write the Catalogue Raisonne then? | 0:49:26 | 0:49:29 | |
Nearly, but not quite. | 0:49:29 | 0:49:31 | |
There's a woman I would love to show this to - Anthea Callen. | 0:49:31 | 0:49:36 | |
She's seen as an oracle on this whole subject of Impressionism. | 0:49:36 | 0:49:40 | |
If we can get her blessing for this picture | 0:49:40 | 0:49:44 | |
I'd feel so much more comfortable taking it out to France. | 0:49:44 | 0:49:47 | |
Getting an audience with Dr Anthea Callen hasn't been easy. | 0:49:51 | 0:49:55 | |
She divides her time between Britain, France and Australia | 0:49:55 | 0:49:59 | |
and her expertise as an authenticator is always in demand. | 0:49:59 | 0:50:04 | |
She's reviewed the results of our forensic tests on the pigments | 0:50:06 | 0:50:09 | |
and the panel but will she buy into our theories about the signature | 0:50:09 | 0:50:14 | |
and the face of the dancer? | 0:50:14 | 0:50:16 | |
She agreed to meet us at the Courtauld Institute in London | 0:50:17 | 0:50:21 | |
to offer her opinion. | 0:50:21 | 0:50:22 | |
Anthea, hello. What do you make of our little painting? | 0:50:26 | 0:50:32 | |
It's an interesting problem. It's an interesting problem. | 0:50:32 | 0:50:35 | |
There are all sorts of things that are good about it | 0:50:35 | 0:50:38 | |
but I think there are definitely some serious queries as well. | 0:50:38 | 0:50:42 | |
So, you've seen the tests now we've had done, | 0:50:43 | 0:50:46 | |
the chemical analysis of the pigments, | 0:50:46 | 0:50:48 | |
and they all seem to suggest that they're late 19th century | 0:50:48 | 0:50:51 | |
or were certainly used at that date, now how do you respond to that? | 0:50:51 | 0:50:54 | |
I think the pigments are very characteristic, | 0:50:54 | 0:50:57 | |
both of the period and of Degas. | 0:50:57 | 0:51:01 | |
What you find a good deal of in the results is the earth colours. | 0:51:01 | 0:51:06 | |
Like red iron oxide, or yellow ochre for example, | 0:51:06 | 0:51:10 | |
which aren't characteristic of most of the Impressionist painters' palettes, | 0:51:10 | 0:51:16 | |
but nevertheless were regularly used by Degas, so that's all good. | 0:51:16 | 0:51:21 | |
What about the signature, how does that look to you? | 0:51:21 | 0:51:23 | |
Because that has been raised as an issue in the past. | 0:51:23 | 0:51:26 | |
Yes, the signature goes very woolly after the D. | 0:51:26 | 0:51:32 | |
The D I can accept but between the D and the S it goes rather sort of blurred and woolly. | 0:51:32 | 0:51:40 | |
I mean, the signature did keep changing, though. | 0:51:40 | 0:51:42 | |
Oh, absolutely, yes, absolutely. It's possible but it's... | 0:51:42 | 0:51:48 | |
Give me something which you think is really against, | 0:51:48 | 0:51:51 | |
because your expression suggests that you stand both sides of the line. | 0:51:51 | 0:51:54 | |
Well, I would be concerned both about the... | 0:51:54 | 0:51:58 | |
in a sense, the draughtsmanship, the construction of it. | 0:51:58 | 0:52:03 | |
For example, in the heads of the double basses, for me the drawing is not quite right. | 0:52:03 | 0:52:10 | |
He hasn't fully articulated the forms of those bass heads | 0:52:10 | 0:52:16 | |
which he does in other work, so he clearly knows the instruments really well. | 0:52:16 | 0:52:21 | |
One of the least convincing elements is actually the face. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:27 | |
It's almost too cute, too pretty. | 0:52:27 | 0:52:29 | |
I have to say I love what I'm hearing in a way | 0:52:29 | 0:52:32 | |
because this is connoisseurship in action. | 0:52:32 | 0:52:34 | |
Sure, but with the greatest respect to you, Anthea, | 0:52:34 | 0:52:37 | |
obviously connoisseurship is an opinion and there will be several opinions. | 0:52:37 | 0:52:40 | |
-Of course, but some people are more informed than others. -Absolutely! | 0:52:40 | 0:52:44 | |
With Anthea sharing some of the same concerns as the Degas expert | 0:52:44 | 0:52:48 | |
who examined Patrick's painting in 2009, | 0:52:48 | 0:52:52 | |
the idea that someone else had a hand in the work still can't be ruled out. | 0:52:52 | 0:52:57 | |
Have you ever seen other Degas in inverted commas, | 0:52:58 | 0:53:01 | |
that look like this? | 0:53:01 | 0:53:03 | |
No, I haven't actually, I haven't. | 0:53:05 | 0:53:07 | |
So, I mean if it is a fake it's a very good one. | 0:53:07 | 0:53:10 | |
Whoever has done this knows what they're doing. | 0:53:10 | 0:53:14 | |
-So, either Degas, or a master of crime. -Exactly. | 0:53:14 | 0:53:18 | |
This is, I think, on a knife edge. | 0:53:18 | 0:53:20 | |
With one of the world's leading Impressionist experts finding | 0:53:22 | 0:53:26 | |
it too close to call, are Patrick and Jonathan still happy for us | 0:53:26 | 0:53:31 | |
to submit the painting to the Degas Catalogue Raisonne in Paris | 0:53:31 | 0:53:34 | |
for final judgement? | 0:53:34 | 0:53:36 | |
Given that we have this slightly double-edged response from Anthea, | 0:53:38 | 0:53:43 | |
are you prepared now for us to go forward? | 0:53:43 | 0:53:46 | |
Oh, definitely yes and I think on balance it's good news | 0:53:46 | 0:53:52 | |
and we have to just accept what happens at the next stage. | 0:53:52 | 0:53:55 | |
The case we've built up makes it a far easier judgement | 0:53:55 | 0:54:00 | |
to say that it is by Degas than it's not. | 0:54:00 | 0:54:03 | |
The Blue Dancer is making the most important journey of her life. | 0:54:04 | 0:54:09 | |
All we can do is wait. | 0:54:13 | 0:54:16 | |
The fate of the painting now lies in the hands of Galerie Brame and Lorenceau, | 0:54:16 | 0:54:20 | |
the Parisian firm who control the Catalogue Raisonne. | 0:54:20 | 0:54:24 | |
They have the sole right to rule on the authenticity of Degas's work, | 0:54:24 | 0:54:28 | |
and in the art world, new and previously unknown Impressionist paintings are a rare discovery. | 0:54:28 | 0:54:35 | |
But after more than a month of intense scrutiny, | 0:54:40 | 0:54:43 | |
the Blue Dancer is back in England and a letter has arrived from Paris. | 0:54:43 | 0:54:50 | |
Depending on what's in this letter | 0:54:53 | 0:54:54 | |
Patrick's painting is either worth a few hundred pounds or a few hundred thousand pounds. | 0:54:54 | 0:55:00 | |
-Are you ready? -Mm-hm. | 0:55:00 | 0:55:02 | |
Oh, my God, I'm trembling slightly. | 0:55:04 | 0:55:06 | |
"Brame and Lorenceau. | 0:55:12 | 0:55:14 | |
"Nous avons le plaisir... We have the pleasure to confirm to you | 0:55:14 | 0:55:17 | |
"That the painting described below, which you have submitted | 0:55:17 | 0:55:20 | |
"For our appreciation is an authentic Degas." | 0:55:20 | 0:55:23 | |
-Oh, my God! -That's fantastic. -Oh, my goodness! | 0:55:23 | 0:55:27 | |
We've done it, we've done it! | 0:55:27 | 0:55:29 | |
That's the shortest, sweetest, most fantastic letter I've ever read. | 0:55:29 | 0:55:32 | |
Oh, my gosh. Oh, I just can't believe that. I was convinced... | 0:55:32 | 0:55:35 | |
-So was I. -When I woke up this morning that... -Ah, ye of little faith. | 0:55:35 | 0:55:38 | |
Yeah, this was not going to be. Oh, my God! | 0:55:38 | 0:55:41 | |
And have you noticed it's already begun to change. | 0:55:41 | 0:55:45 | |
THEY LAUGH | 0:55:45 | 0:55:46 | |
It's shining. | 0:55:46 | 0:55:47 | |
Patrick and Jonathan are going to be here any minute, | 0:55:47 | 0:55:49 | |
and I can't wait to tell them. | 0:55:49 | 0:55:51 | |
After more than 60 years of uncertainty, | 0:55:56 | 0:55:59 | |
Patrick and Jonathan are about to get the proof they've dreamed of. | 0:55:59 | 0:56:03 | |
Hi there, nice to see you both. | 0:56:05 | 0:56:07 | |
The results are in here. | 0:56:08 | 0:56:10 | |
How are you feeling? | 0:56:12 | 0:56:14 | |
Well, I think we both feel absolutely on the edge, | 0:56:14 | 0:56:18 | |
because we know how tricky the whole business is. | 0:56:18 | 0:56:21 | |
We think it's unlikely that it got through. | 0:56:21 | 0:56:24 | |
Well, brace yourselves. | 0:56:24 | 0:56:26 | |
"We have the pleasure to inform you that the painting described below | 0:56:28 | 0:56:31 | |
"That you have submitted for our appreciation | 0:56:31 | 0:56:33 | |
"Is an authentic work by Edgar Degas." | 0:56:33 | 0:56:38 | |
That's absolutely fantastic. That is, thank you. | 0:56:38 | 0:56:42 | |
-Isn't that great? Are you shocked? -Congratulations. | 0:56:42 | 0:56:45 | |
Thank you so much. | 0:56:45 | 0:56:48 | |
-It's congratulations to you actually, or everyone here. -Here is your Degas. -Brilliant. | 0:56:48 | 0:56:52 | |
-You're completely shocked. -No I am, I am really shocked. | 0:56:52 | 0:56:55 | |
I mean, I think it's a real kind of lesson in not giving up | 0:56:55 | 0:56:57 | |
because I really didn't think it was possible. | 0:56:57 | 0:57:02 | |
With this letter, the line at the bottom here says | 0:57:04 | 0:57:07 | |
"This painting will be reproduced in the second supplement | 0:57:07 | 0:57:10 | |
"Of the Catalogue Raisonne of the work of Degas." | 0:57:10 | 0:57:14 | |
Now that is the seal of approval that you need. | 0:57:14 | 0:57:18 | |
If you're going to sell this painting, that's what you need, you've got it. | 0:57:18 | 0:57:22 | |
I mean, what would that be worth now? | 0:57:22 | 0:57:24 | |
Well, I can see, you know, for a pocket-sized Degas | 0:57:24 | 0:57:26 | |
there would a lot of collectors out there who would love this. | 0:57:26 | 0:57:29 | |
A ballet image by the great name, I could see it being worth half a million if not more, | 0:57:29 | 0:57:35 | |
half a million pounds if not more. | 0:57:35 | 0:57:36 | |
Yes, yes. Obviously with my children the best thing would be that it were sold | 0:57:36 | 0:57:42 | |
-and it would help with their mortgages and everything else. -Do you feel your dad should do that? | 0:57:42 | 0:57:46 | |
-I'm not going to tell him not to. -That was the arrangement. | 0:57:46 | 0:57:49 | |
I think this calls for some champagne, I don't know about you. | 0:57:49 | 0:57:52 | |
Most definitely. | 0:57:52 | 0:57:54 | |
Cheers. | 0:57:55 | 0:57:57 | |
To the christening of the new Degas. | 0:57:58 | 0:58:00 | |
I'm so thrilled for them. | 0:58:05 | 0:58:07 | |
You know, to think that one letter has made all the difference. | 0:58:07 | 0:58:11 | |
And you know so often in this world that I occupy, | 0:58:11 | 0:58:16 | |
I've seen people's dreams crushed, | 0:58:16 | 0:58:18 | |
but equally on occasions I've seen lives transformed. | 0:58:18 | 0:58:23 | |
And do you know, | 0:58:23 | 0:58:25 | |
I'm already looking forward to the next painting that turns up. | 0:58:25 | 0:58:27 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:32 | 0:58:33 |