Reggie Yates: Teen Gangs

It's hard to believe that, just a few months ago,

streets like this went up in flames.

Homes and businesses were burned to the ground.

Britain went into lockdown.

It seemed like some people felt that looting was just a way

of getting their hands on the material possessions

that they were entitled to.

The finger was pointed at teenage gangs

and more than half the people charged with offences were under 21.

I'm Reggie Yates and tonight I'm trying to find out what makes

gang life the chosen path for thousands of teenagers

in Britain's inner cities.

But I'm starting off with some pretty firm views.

I've long believed that everybody has choices in life

and that no-one is forced to become a criminal

just because they grow up poor.

I grew up on a council estate, in a house that,

for a long period of time, was essentially living off benefits

and I believe that your surroundings don't define who you are.

I think it's you as an individual,

how much work you are willing to put in. That determines how well you do.

But I'm going to test my beliefs on a journey that will take me

to some pretty dangerous places.

Over the last three months, I've spent time with four young people

who've all been right at the heart of gang life in Britain.

It's not been easy for them,

but they have allowed me an insight into their world.

Aaron was a member of one of the most feared teen gangs

in South London and served time in prison.

'I've done a few things, you know, like robbery,'

but paid the price for it.

Talisa's been involved in selling drugs for another London gang

and was the victim of a vicious assault.

How many times were you stabbed?

-I was stabbed about 14.

-14 times?

Shakeel lost a friend to a vicious gangland war.

People do get killed out here. I can't lie about it.

And Darren was a member

of one of the most ruthless gangs in Manchester.

Basically, you wouldn't look at us lot wrong,

cos if you did, you'd be the next one in the back of the ambulance.

So where does the responsibility lie?

Am I right that it is down to the individual

and the choices that person makes, or is it about their environment,

things that are often outside of their control?

I'm going to try and find out.

POLICE SIRENS WAIL

For four years, Aaron Rhoden was a member of one of the toughest gangs

in Stockwell, South London.

Now he's trying to put his energy to more constructive use.

Five days a week, he packs his sports kit

and heads down to the local gym.

But he misses the status and fast money that came with gang life.

You can never get used to having no money,

but it's just something what has to be done sometimes.

Obviously, it's depressing, but I've got to accept it.

Aaron served nine months of a 2.5 year sentence for ABH,

and, since April, he's been out on licence, but is finding it tough.

I might not have the strong enough willpower to stay off the streets,

and the influences come in from elsewhere, and they will just come

and overpower your willpower, you know.

You got have the mind and strength to want to do it for yourself.

So what was life like for Aaron inside a gang and has he really

been able to put the fast money and prestige behind him?

-Hi, how are you doing?

-Good, thanks. Upstairs.

-This is the penthouse.

-Yeah, this is where it all goes down!

You've got loads of things.

All your hats on your wall. Are they like your prized possessions?

Yes, my hats are memories. Look at this one here.

-"031", what's that?

-It was just my current gang at the time.

And what did you guys do?

Get into beefs, altercations, drugs, whatever it is.

You say drugs like it's a small thing.

But for most people, it really isn't. Were you dealing, selling?

It's, like, selling, innit?

You gotta go and get money, however you can get it.

That's the mentality of the young people.

There must have been a moment

when you decided to go down the wrong path that led to

actually being involved in an organised gang.

What was that moment everything changed?

I was about 14 years old and someone had just basically come up to me,

and he said to me, "I just stabbed someone.

"Quick. I got the blood on my knife and everything."

He brought out the knife.

He asked me to just to follow him to the bus stop.

It got to the point where I ended up following him about the whole day.

He, kind of, like, in a way, he kidnapped me.

He took my phone, he took my chain, he took my big diamond ring.

After that day, my trust for people, in general, just went down.

I didn't want to be so exposed like that again.

So after all of that, you started carrying a knife yourself, right?

Would you have used it?

I would have had to. Had to. There's no point in carrying it.

You can go to jail for just having a knife,

so I might as well use it, if I'm going to have it on me.

'Aaron's been upfront about his time with the 031 Bloods gang,

'but I wanted to know why he'd been sent to prison.'

It was a robbery, you know, kind of thing. Drug dealers and stuff.

Why don't you want to talk about what actually happened?

Because, really and truly, the people who were the victims of it,

could be watching right now and they might think justice wasn't served.

They might think, "Oh, I saw so-and-so there.

"He was on the TV there. Don't I remember him

"from the court case, there?" you know, kind of thing.

"Let's go after him, still."

They might be like that. You don't know how people are.

Aaron still has to look over his shoulder whenever he goes out.

He took me to the estate in South London where he grew up,

'and he seemed uneasy about being on the streets with the cameras.'

There's beef, real shoot-outs.

People have shoot-outs all the time. This is Stockwell. This is real.

When was the last time you saw a shoot-out round here?

'08. 2008 was the last vivid one I can remember.

Little party in a pub and someone came and shot it up.

Two bouncers outside the pub, both of them got hit up.

One got shot in his head. Everyone in the club had to walk over

his dead body to get out of the club.

-That was the last real one I can remember.

-How old were you then?

I was...17 or 18.

So at 17, you're stepping over a dead body to get out of a pub.

Did that not affect you in any way?

The shooting and stuff got so regular that things used to happen

and we got to look and laugh about it.

We, literally, came away and if no-one got hurt, you're laughing.

There's no doubt Aaron wants to turn his life around.

But how long will his resolve last?

Because he spent so much time before he went in

being used to the trappings of his former lifestyle,

'I'm not entirely sure he's going to be OK and be able to stick it out.'

I think that the temptation is massive and I really hope

that he doesn't fall to it.

One thing I want to get across is that

gangs are not just a black issue.

In most of Britain's big cities there are all sorts of gangs -

Asian, white and black.

So I'm heading to the North West, once again to find out whether

people there choose to join gangs or are they forced into it?

Here in St Helens,

these young people are part of a rehabilitation scheme.

They've all committed serious offences,

most involving gang violence.

Darren Burns was a member of one of THE toughest gangs in Manchester.

Now he gets a kick out of helping out at this old gym.

How much are you enjoying this?

Erm, it is actually quite fun. You do get a few laughs.

-OK.

-It's what you make of it yourself.

Boxing lessons are the most popular part of the course.

After watching these young people land some pretty fearsome blows,

I took the chance to find out what drove them into gangs.

Basically, you wouldn't look at us lot wrong,

because if you did, you'd be the next one in the ambulance.

That's how it was.

What were you known for?

Drug dealing, weapons, fighting. Everything.

Darren lived in 42 different care homes, from the age of five.

At 14, he joined up with Manchester's notorious Gooch gang.

Other gang members served time for murder

as they fought rivals for control of the drugs trade.

You don't look like the sort of person that would have

a gun in his pocket. What was it that attracted you to it

and did you not think, "This might not be for me"?

At the time, I'd gone through a stage of being bullied at school,

so it was my way of saying, "Listen, I'm not a muppet.

"I'm not going to let you trample all over me."

I wanted the reputation that came with it, the reputation whereas

if you did something, it wouldn't just be me coming to get you,

-it would be someone else.

-You were bullied as a teenager?

-Yeah.

What was the one moment you said,

"They won't mess with me again"?

I went up to the biggest guy in school

and just trampled him all down the stairs, because he was the main one.

I was only in year nine and he was year 11.

So, one of the oldest kids in school and you beat him up?

Yeah, I threw him down the stairs.

After that, did things change? Did people look at you differently?

-Yeah.

-Did you enjoy that?

-I loved it at the time.

I was thinking I was untouchable.

You get this, sort of, invincibility cloak over you,

like, no-one can touch you.

-Now that you're out the gang, do you see it differently?

-Yeah.

Boys will be boys, but it's a completely different perspective now.

Do you not think it's a bit stronger than "boys will be boys"?

I know what you're saying, but when you're there, it's like a family.

You protect each other.

So, Darren believes he had to be in a gang,

as a way of finding security - almost a surrogate family.

His environment gave him no alternative.

But is he just an exception to my belief that it's all about

individual choices? I'm heading back to London,

for a meeting with someone else who's agreed to tell me her story

about life inside a teenage gang.

Talisa Kyei was in a gang from her early teens.

She was often involved in fights,

and earned money as a lookout for drug dealers.

She's moved out of her parents' house

and now lives on this estate in Morden, Surrey.

For Talisa, it's a key part of breaking away from the gang.

Her flat represents independence,

but it also shows the choices she now has to make.

-Hello.

-Hey!

-Welcome.

-Are you all right?

She has to find £120 a month towards her rent

and that's the sort of money she doesn't have.

-This your place, yeah?

-This is my room.

Not the messiest, but it's not the neatest, either.

Don't worry. I ain't getting the Hoover out.

This is the living room, right here.

'Talisa insists she's now out of the gang.

'The turning point came five years ago.'

One day, I got a phone call from my friend and then I came out

my house to meet them, but they wasn't there,

so I was thinking, "What's going on?"

So I saw this dude that I thought I was cool with and I went up to him

and all I remember was I saw a knife and he just went for me.

I didn't really thought anything.

All my emotions went. I was thinking, "How am I going to survive this?

"How am I going to get out? Am I going to see my mum again?"

-And how many times were you stabbed?

-14 times.

-Do you have scars?

I don't really want to show them.

-You don't have to show me, but do you have scars?

-Yeah!

So what do you think when you see the scars from the stabbing?

When it's a bad day, I think, "Why didn't I just die with the scars?"

And then, when it's a good day I think, "I'll overcome this.

"This is what makes me today, and this is why I'm living today."

Since leaving the gang...

MOBILE RINGS

-Don't worry about it. It's OK.

-Are you sure?

-Yeah.

'Talisa's phone rings throughout our interview.

'Something is going on.'

-TEXT MESSAGE BUZZ I'll switch it off.

-Popular girl.

-Who was texting you?

-Is this on camera?

-Mm-hmm.

He's actually one of my friends still, but I just...

-leave it a little.

-Why are they texting you so much?

-Oh, I don't know.

-No? OK.

'I've only known Talisa a few hours,

'but I can tell she knows more than she's letting on.'

-PHONE BUZZES

-What's going on?

Nothing, it's just, one of my friends, like. They just, like...

They are, sort of, on a grind, innit? They still do what they want to do.

I understand what you mean, but for the people that don't,

can you explain what you mean by "on the grind"?

They're still hustling, basically, to live, like, a nice life,

to live a decent life. Everyone deserves things...

What are they...? Hustling how?

-Like, just showing and stuff.

-Selling drugs?

-Yeah.

And why are they calling you?

Because they want me to get one of my friends to get it off them,

but I don't want to do that.

'She says she doesn't want to be involved,

'but explains some people believe

'they're entitled to a better lifestyle,

'even if it is funded by selling drugs.

'Talisa switches her phone off, but when she turns it back on

'it starts up again.'

I actually... PHONE BUZZES

-Oh, my God.

-You just turned it back on again?

-Yeah.

-OK.

I don't want to answer and then he tries coming here.

Come on, answer your phone. You sure?

-'Now there's a knock on the door.' Who's that?

-The boy.

Stay here. Shall I answer it? Yeah.

'It felt obvious that Talisa's friend

'would be coming back once we'd gone,

'but that wasn't quite what she told us.'

-SHE SIGHS

-What happened?

-I just told him to go.

-What did he come here for?

Just to talk to me, but I told him to go.

Is there a temptation, there, to get involved?

Not even a little one?

-Why are you so sure?

-Why am I so sure?

-Cos I know where it can lead me to again.

-And what can it lead you to?

Probably prison or death. This time, death for true, this time.

'You see, I like Talisa, but despite her good intentions,

'I'm worried that she might be letting her environment

'get on top of her.'

I want to say that she's being a better person and moving on,

but the fact that her phone continuously rings

and randomly you've got a guy turning up out of the blue,

knocking on front door, trying to get her to sell drugs for him,

says to me in her mind, she wants to move on and thinks that she is,

but I'm not sure if that's actually what's really going on.

'The next day, I met up with Aaron.'

'He'd agreed to take me to another estate close by

'that was territory of the All Bout Money gang.

'They'd had a serious beef with the 031 Bloods that Aaron belonged to.

'It's part of a turf war that has cost up to ten lives

'in the last decade.

'Aaron seemed nervous here, and sort of on the alert.'

A couple of years ago, you know,

we used to come and meet around here for football,

just chill around here at the little park at one stage.

Do you know what? I've heard about a place called the Hotspot.

-Is that anywhere near here?

-Oh, that's right there, yeah.

-Just there?

-Yeah, right across the road.

what's that, then?

Um, also called Stockwell Gardens Estate, also known as Hotspot.

Why is it called that, then?

-Um, I think because police always used to be round there a lot.

-Yeah?

Yeah, it's just like a big strip, you know?

'It's hard to believe that this little parade of shops

'with a small courtyard

'could be such a prized piece of gang territory,

'but this can be a dangerous place.'

So, if we were to go there now with the cameras, myself and you,

would that be a problem for you?

-Um, yeah, I'm not really trying to condone any of that.

-Why's that?

It's not my job to really do that, you know?

I'm not a reporter. However, you know... Yeah, it's just not me.

-It's not me.

-You look really uncomfortable.

You look really uncomfortable about going over there.

What is it about this area in particular?

It's not even that, but it's like, because of my affiliates, you know?

-They had problems with these lot.

-So, in a situation like this,

where someone who was once in a gang

got into an area that they shouldn't be seen,

even though they're out, is it still dangerous?

It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be, but it can be.

'I finally realise why Aaron's so nervous here.

'This area's at the heart of a postcode war between rival gangs.'

'To try and turn their lives around, Aaron and Talisa

'have signed up for a course of intensive personal coaching.

'I've come to see what they do and how they get on.

'It's not in the sort of place I'd expected -

'right in the heart of London's affluent West End, Covent Garden.

'It's called RAP Mentors, a private company which offers coaching

'to young people at risk of getting involved in gangs

'and to others who want to become mentors themselves.'

-Is it OK to take your mentee home with you?

-No!

'The project manager is 41-year-old David Williams.

'He spent time in prison 20 years ago,

'but now wants to help other young people avoid a life of crime.'

-Is it OK to share a spliff with your mentee?

-No!

'He knows it'll be a hard road for Aaron and Talisa.'

There will always be struggles

because they're living in the same environment,

they're in the same community,

they know the same friends and the peer pressure is very, very great.

'David believes that outside forces can be strong.'

Did anyone do any of that homework?

'At the group discussion, Aaron explains

'why he resisted the temptation to take part in the London riots.'

Even though I felt like I was missing out on an opportunity,

I wanted to be a part of history.

'His decision not to join in the looting

'suggests he's already moving forward.'

And, obviously, I'm on licence as well, so I don't want to go out there

and get remanded straight away

and have to do my licence plus extra charges.

'But Talisa still has problems.'

Sometimes it's not the person, you know, that messes up -

it's their friends around you, cos they're jealous of you

for doing better than them, or whatever.

So sometimes it's people as well.

'Only a few days ago, she was involved in a row on the street

'with another girl in which a mobile phone and money went missing.

'She's still angry,

'and it quickly becomes clear that things haven't been resolved.'

Come in, come in, come in, come in. We're going to put you in the group.

'Julie, the girl from the phone row, walks into the class,

'face-to-face with Talisa.

'Try as she might, it seems Talisa can't escape trouble.'

'Everyone else tries to act as peacekeeper.'

I need to find out if Talisa's all right

and what's being going on. It seems like what's going on outside

of trying to better herself has come back and bit her.

How mad is that?

'I talk to both Talisa and Julie to get to the bottom of what happened.'

Basically, me and my brothers were standing by the station, yeah?

All these others, they came up to us,

sprayed me in my eye with a JuJu spray, yeah?

I wasn't there. She was giving her sister the money.

They was telling me what happened.

'It's a complicated story, to say the least of it,

'and even when I've heard both sides, I'm not much the wiser.'

I don't want to seem like a snitch, but she can't do this to me.

'This may seem petty and juvenile,

'but it's clear passions are running high.

'If they'd run into each other on the street,

'it could have blown up into something much more serious.

'Eventually they make up...for now.'

Thank you very much, all right?

'The afternoon has been an eye-opener.

'I've learned that however much you want to change,

'things from the world outside can come and trip you up.

'I've also learned how different Aaron and Talisa are.'

They're both trying to turn over a new leaf. Aaron is well on his way,

whereas Talisa was distracted right in front of us

and the old Talisa was brought back out to play.

So how well they do and how much they progress,

hopefully we'll find out and hopefully it will be positive.

We shall see, I guess.

So far, it's been an education.

The more I see, the more I understand that that the reasons

people are drawn into gang life are complex and often very different.

I'm heading back to the Hotspot,

the home of the All Bout Money gang, where I'd been with Aaron.

'David Williams from the Covent Garden project is taking me there.'

I'm going to take this right here.

'He's trying to find gang members willing to talk to me.

'The Hotspot is dangerous, even when it isn't dark.

'The police always keep an eye on it

'and tonight, it looks like things may have kicked off already.'

-Are they on their way down there now?

-Mate, I'm not even joking.

I'm serious. That's not even a joke, I'm telling you.

-They're most likely going there now, you know?

-What are the issues there?

Street robberies. Gang culture.

-OK, yeah.

-A bit of hostility, rivalry.

Postcode wars and so forth.

What should I be expecting?

You might meet a few angry people, to be honest.

-When you say angry, what do you mean?

-The riots, for instance.

People are still angry. Young people are angry. They want to be heard.

'They might want to be heard,

'but tonight they don't seem to want to talk to me.'

You want to talk to us, brother? No?

I don't think many people really want to talk to us right now.

I mean, the bright light probably isn't helping.

But hopefully David will find us

someone who's willing to talk to us soonish.

'It looked like it was going to be a frustrating visit,

'But I was beginning to understand why people wouldn't talk.'

I've just spoken to some guys here in Stockwell,

they keep using the same phrase, "dry snitching".

They believe talking to us on camera is basically a gentle version

of going to the police and snitching.

The incredibly frustrating thing about that

is that the things they are saying are so valid

and so bang on to what we're trying to talk about

and discuss in this programme, that I can't...

I think frustrating is an understatement.

Off camera, people told me they felt poverty and police harassment

drove them to seek security in gangs.

But they wouldn't tell me on camera.

I want them to say to you guys what they've said to me,

but they're never going to do it, on camera at least.

Oh, it makes me angry. It makes me so angry.

'Finally, one man does come forward.'

-You up for talking?

-Yeah. What's up?

-Hello, man. You all right?

'He's Shakeel Nascimento, aged 22 and a refugee from the Congo.

'He's lived in London since he was 14

'and he seems to know about gang life from the inside.'

Would you say that you were involved in any gangs?

'He clearly knows a lot about tensions in the area.'

So how dangerous does it get around here?

-Do you know what it was over?

-No, I don't know.

How easy is it to escalate from being just a normal kid

who's getting in trouble at school?

Shakeel wants to tell me more,

but thinks he's said enough in front of his mates.

We arrange to meet a few days later.

London is just one of many places where teenage gangs

have caused big problems.

Two days after last summer's riots began in the capital,

violence broke out on Merseyside too.

A different city, different people, but many of the same problems,

and teen gangs taking a large part of the blame.

Gang turf wars here have reached as far as cyberspace.

But they're also an alarming part of the real world too.

I'm heading for the place that became the focus of the battle

between the rival Nogga Dogz gang from Norris Green

and the Crocky Crew from neighbouring Croxteth.

In 2007, this pub car park

was the scene of one of the most notorious teen gang shootings

of recent times.

-RADIO REPORT:

-'Breaking news this evening.

'An 11-year-old boy has died after being shot in the head.'

It was part of a turf war,

but the victim was a boy who had nothing to do with gangs.

He was just on his way home from football practice.

-RADIO REPORT:

-'The 11-year-old boy had been playing football

'in the Croxteth area of Liverpool.'

Rhys Jones was killed by a bullet

which had ricocheted off a wall and hit him in the back.

The gun was fired by 16-year-old Sean Mercer.

He'd intended to shoot a rival from Norris Green

to earn his spurs.

The boys who played football

with Rhys Jones are now aged 15.

This is their team, Fir Tree FC.

I went to watch one of their weekly practice sessions,

supervised by coach Steve Geoghegan.

Although the dreadful night of Rhys' murder was over four years ago,

it still has very painful memories.

I remember it like it was yesterday actually.

I never heard nothing, I never heard any gunshots.

I don't know why, everyone else in the area did.

I shouted to me dad

that Rhys was on the floor over there, what's happened?

Just before I got there,

a girl got there, and she was screaming, "He's been shot."

And nothing registered.

He was bleeding quite a lot

and I just remember I started crying, really.

It was just numbness.

I felt my whole body shaking

and I didn't know what to do.

I knew, you know...

I knew Rhys had no chance.

Fir Tree FC hosts an annual tournament in honour of Rhys.

Teams from all over the country come to compete for the Rhys Jones Cup.

That's a great ball. Well played!

But, even on the football pitch, there are reminders

that gang violence is only just below the surface.

Some teams were causing us some problems. One team actually said

they were going to come back and shoot us.

And by what's happened to our team,

we don't take threats like that lightly.

Why did they want to shoot you guys?

A bad tackle went in,

and their team got quite aggressive.

So what goes through your head

when you think something as small as a tackle could cause a shooting?

Like a bad tackle, they're obviously going to go in football.

Just the heat of the moment and the game and stuff.

But to say you're going to shoot someone because of a bad tackle,

I find that quite disturbing.

So a decent bunch of lads who want nothing more

than to enjoy their football can be threatened so casually.

I was learning that you can get drawn into street violence,

whether you want to be or not.

It seems like sometimes, you don't even have a choice.

It may be easy to get caught up in that world,

but what about getting out?

Is it possible for young people to break free of their environment

and leave the gang life?

I've got an appointment with a guy in East London

who I hope can give me some answers.

Sheldon Thomas runs a project in Stratford

to counsel and rehabilitate gang members.

It's called TAG - Target Against Gangs.

They use their strong Christian beliefs

to try and convince young people that there is a way out.

What we've done is to get the main players

in these particular gangs

and get them to change the guys in the gangs.

So we've got a philosophy of each one, teach one, reach one.

Today they are reaching out to a mother on this estate.

Her 15-year-old son has become heavily involved in crime,

and she's worried.

Both Sheldon and his assistant Gavin McKenna

are ex-gang members themselves, so they know the score.

But they're not the only visitors today.

Probably come to nick one of them.

This happens all the time, you know what I mean?

The 15-year-old has disappeared.

But I discover there's more to the case.

Last night, this house was visited by a gang

who shot up the windows and front door. It's a message

for the 15-year-old, and his family is living with the fall-out.

People think, "Oh, this don't happen every day."

-It happens every day.

-No-one's doing nothing.

I was just sitting talking to the mother and father.

Look how distraught the mum was. "I have to live here."

The son that's caused the trouble's never here.

Sheldon's one of the people the government speaks to about gangs.

He's even had a meeting with David Cameron.

Today I'm watching him in action.

What's Sheldon's take on personal responsibility versus environment?

Does he think it's down to the individual,

or is it about forces beyond their control?

But before we get round to any of that, he receives an urgent call.

You don't need to worry so much about the six-year-olds.

It's more the 8, 9, and 10-year-olds.

A teacher in East London is worried about a gang problem at her school.

10-year-olds are very sneaky

because they are getting drafted in at that young age.

You are hearing it right.

Sheldon is talking about primary school kids.

In this particular school, they're already showing signs

that something's not quite right with some of the older guys

who are about to go to secondary school. They're ten years old.

How would you draw in someone that young?

Very rarely do you hear of a policeman stopping a 10-year-old.

They know that, so they give them young guys a little £10.

£10 to a 10-year-old is lots of money.

Before you know it, that's how they get trapped.

£10, another £10, now he's got money.

He ain't getting much money at home

because obviously Mum's maybe struggling or whatever.

So that's how these guys are getting caught up in it.

Wow. OK.

No wonder Sheldon thinks prayer is the answer.

HE PRAYS

Christianity is at the heart of his project.

Keep our mind focused on the young men that we have

to go out and sow a seed to.

Father, let us have our goals fixed on them

to bring them into the Kingdom.

Today, we're talking about, "Who am I?"

Because everything we do has to relate to what

the man on the road's doing.

Sheldon's style is like a street preacher.

They step, one step, they're pulled right back...

He starts by getting his team of former gang members

to think about the things we can't control which upset us.

Just touch on it. What exactly are you angry about?

-A father figure.

-What are you angry about?

-Things that happened in the past.

-Exactly.

I've come to observe, but I'm being asked to offer my own thoughts too.

I guess, frustrations, various frustrations.

'Sheldon demonstrates how these outside issues can weigh us down.'

This is what they're carrying. This is them.

He believes we have to accept the hand we've been dealt and move on,

rather than letting outside frustrations hold us back.

I don't have to get up in the morning

and be angry at something I can't do nothing about.

What we can do something about, watch this, is about us.

'It's a persuasive message.'

The thing that came across for me was some of the stuff that he said

actually really applied to me, you know.

My start out isn't that different to some of the people in room.

Hearing what Sheldon had to say rung true with me in some places.

Although I'd experienced some of the frustrations

I'd heard here tonight,

I didn't join a street gang, whereas they did.

Should I take credit for that? Or had I just been lucky?

I left with more questions than answers.

It's been a week since my visit to the Hotspot in South London.

Remember I'd arranged to meet with Shakeel, the guy from the Congo?

The only one who would talk?

He's been in touch and agreed where to meet.

'Not at the Hotspot, but at a cafe in West London

'where no-one will recognise him.'

I'm hoping that away from the Hotspot

he'll open up further about whether or not he'd had a proper choice

about getting involved in gang life.

After an hour, I was wondering whether he would come at all.

When he finally turns up, there's an explanation.

The arrival of his new baby.

Shakeel. Hello, man. How you doing?

-You all right?

-Yeah.

-Good to see you, bruv. You OK?

-Fine, thanks.

-You look tired.

-Yeah.

Were you in the room when the baby was born?

Social Services were involved?

Do you think it may have come from

your reputation and what you do?

Shakeel's begun to open up, but I want to push him further.

He may live near the Hotspot in Stockwell,

but don't he and his friends have a choice

about getting involved in gangs?

Tell me about that t-shirt.

What happened?

Not far from the Hotspot?

He was a good kid? Do you think it was mistaken identity?

But Shakeel's gang hadn't just been victims of violence,

they were behind some of it too.

What sort of stuff did you do then?

Like what?

Are these violent things?

Are you proud of it?

Are you proud of what you did?

What's your view on gangs?

Why do you think there's so many in the city right now?

What's the right reason?

Shakeel had to leave.

I appreciated how honest he'd been with me,

but I was left wondering how he would manage away from his estate.

Could someone who'd been so deeply involved in gangs

ever really find a way out?

Having a daughter means that he's got a reason to turn a corner,

and I hope that he'll do it.

But with the level that he was in before,

and the fact that he's been through so much, the question is,

can he actually do that?

I'm heading back to the other side of London to see Talisa.

She's another one who's found it hard to escape the world of gangs.

She's trying, but is she succeeding?

Tonight I'm invited for dinner with Talisa and her mum, Juliet.

The family has had its fair share of problems.

As I was about to find out.

How you doing?

Yeah, good, thank you. I can smell dinner.

First I wanted to try and talk to Talisa's mum on her own.

On the menu was a Ghanian speciality.

-Hey, Juliet. Can I pop in?

-Come in, Reggie.

-How's it going?

-Lovely.

-Nice.

-Can you smell the food?

-It does smell good. Jollof, yeah?

-Yes, jollof.

-Wonderful.

Jollof is...

The bombshell for Juliet was discovering

that Talisa was taking drugs.

I had no idea she was even smoking cannabis

until she came back from school one day

and I happened to be searching through her bags, just by chance.

And there was a card in there that said, "Girl, lay off the weed."

You know, it never occurred to me, none of my family ever smokes dope.

I didn't even know what was meant by "weed."

She described one of her lowest points as when she was stabbed.

After that happened, did you fear for your daughter's life?

I was... I went into a state of shock.

I allowed my daughter to go away from me so far, as to get into gangs,

and to be stabbed, as well.

Just showed me where everything was going,

and I had to take a deep breath and stop.

Do you feel that she's 100 percent away from the person she was?

I'd say 78 percent!

So, what about the remaining percent?

What is it that's still... what's keeping her?

She's not completely open to me,

but I've developed a sixth sense about her,

and I can tell when she's telling the truth,

and I tell when she's not telling the truth.

Juliet was clearly doing her best,

but I wanted to know how family life had affected Talisa.

Her mum and dad were divorced,

but now live separate lives under the same roof.

Over dinner, it didn't take long for the issue

of her parents' relationship to emerge.

I mean, knowing that you're close, and that you've got a relationship,

how do you feel about knowing that what you did in the past

hurt your mother so much and damaged your relationship with her?

Well, it's more complicated to say, but, I didn't intentionally

mean to hurt her, but through my child life, my mum and dad

never got along, and my brother's more close to my mum,

and I was more close to my dad,

it's like I didn't have to fight for attention.

But I know my mum cares about me,

but because my mum and dad always used to argue, it confused me about

who to like and who not to trust, and who to love and who to not.

So, when my dad left, I thought my rock left,

because my dad was like the person I loved the most in the world.

So, when he left it just broke my heart, my world just went to an end.

For the first time,

I feel we are getting to the heart of Talisa's problem.

In her eyes, everything came down to her mum and dad's separation.

How did you feel about your mother at the time?

I didn't hate her,

but I just didn't understand why it couldn't work out.

I was ten when my dad left. I was still at that age.

It was just really about me trying to find myself,

and trying to scream out for attention.

She knew she had to get away from me,

because I was perpetrator of her unhappiness,

because her father had to leave.

But she was too young to understand the ins and outs,

she'd seen the police being called to this house before

and she knew what was happening.

But when the break finally came she wasn't ready for it,

and so she thought, "My mum's deprived me of my father,

"I'm going to be bad."

-You thought I didn't care about you?

-Yes, 60 percent. Yeah.

At that time how important were your friends to you?

That was the only thing that didn't give me problems.

You saw your mum as a problem...

We were arguing a lot at those times and she kicked me out before,

so there was a lot of arguments,

and I didn't feel wanted here, and I felt like a dog.

It wasn't because I didn't want to be with her,

it was because I felt that this wasn't my house any more.

It must have taken a lot of courage for Talisa

and her mother to speak openly.

I've had a chance to meet a mum who understands

the importance of a stable family.

And how disruptive it can prove

if the influence of a parent is taken away.

So what does that mean for Talisa's future?

I think the fact that her mother has embraced her

in the way that she has

is a key part on keeping her on the straight and narrow,

and moving forward as she wants.

If Talisa is able to become the person she wants to be,

her mother is a key part in making that happen.

Back in the North West, there's someone else I want to see.

He lives on this estate in Skelmersdale,

15 miles outside of Liverpool.

He's the writer and lead rapper on this video.

The song warns about the dangers of carrying knives.

-JJ.

-How are you? Nice to see you.

-Nice to meet you.

-You all right?

-Yeah, good.

JJ Hunter was once a member of a gang that terrorized this estate.

Now he's going straight.

He's got strong views on what drives young people into gang crime.

One word - money.

The people who are driving cars that are worth fifty grand,

and moving away into big houses,

so they start seeing what they're earning

and what they're doing,

and they want to progress with that, don't they?

I think that's where it starts, to be honest with you.

Seeing people with a lot of money and lot of respect,

and then you want to aim for that, as a child,

like you don't know any different really.

So, when you were younger you saw the gang lifestyle as glamorous?

Yeah, to be honest with you,

it's stupid to say at this age now, but at the time, definitely, yeah.

I've been bouncing from one side to the other,

in terms of how I look at how young people get involved in gangs,

some people say it's environment, some people say it's attitudes,

and I came into this believing it's just about the person,

it's the individual.

What do you believe is the real reason for young people

getting involved?

I wouldn't say the person, that's just my perspective,

I'd say the environment and the family members.

Like I said, if you're living in an environment

where there's not much going on,

and you see people doing more than what you are,

and making a lot more money, I think, that entices you, doesn't it?

And that's part of your environment, not yourself, isn't?

It's a simple idea, but thinking back, the temptation of easy money

was something I'd heard from Sheldon and Aaron in London.

'You got to go and get money however you can get it.

'That's the mentality of the young people.

'Ten pounds, another ten pounds. Now he's got money.'

Then there was the gang in Stockwell, the All Bout Money gang.

Maybe money is really what it's all about

for many kids in teenage gangs. And what did Talisa say to me?

'Need to sell drugs. I didn't really care, as long as I got the money.'

As a teenager, I too was faced with the temptation

of earning fast money.

But I was also lucky to be given opportunities in the TV world.

So, personal responsibility versus environment.

What do I think now?

I came into this journey believing that it's all about the individual

and about a person believing that they can essentially take

their environment, ignore it, and move forward,

regardless of what's happening in their own lives,

but, off the back of spending some time out here in the North West,

my mind's starting to change a little bit.

I'm a very proud and stubborn person,

and I don't like to be proved wrong, but I definitely believe

environment is a massive part of how well a young person can do,

and whether a person gets pulled into drugs, gangs,

criminality or not.

I'm reaching the end of my journey, and it is time to say my goodbyes.

Back in London, Shakeel had told us he was on a decorating course

at this college in Greenwich, but he's gone off the radar again.

I was hoping this would be the best place to pay him a last visit.

I think Shakeel seems to be a guy who understands

what this opportunity actually represents,

and hopefully today, we'll see him embrace that.

-Hello, Benita?

-Hello, Reg.

-Reg...

Benita Ager runs the college and she was happy to show me around.

They're here from nine in the morning till about 3:30.

They specialise in offering opportunities

to young people from deprived backgrounds.

Just right for Shakeel - it was a place that could give him

hope and an honest future. So where was he?

He was excited about the course, we brought him on.

He only attended for a couple of days.

He did his induction.

Hang on a second, he only attended for a couple of days?

-Yeah.

-So, is he not here today?

He's not here any more, he's off the course now.

Why is he off the course?

Because he just didn't attend.

We've rang him, he said he was ill one day,

then he said he'd definitely be in the next day,

and the third time we've rang, he switched his phone off.

-We rang him an extra four times, we just couldn't get hold of him.

-Right.

That was a bit disappointing, wasn't it?

The idea was to see Shakeel at work, as it were,

and see him actively going out of his way to try

and do something with himself, and he's not here,

and he's not been here for a while,

and I'm a little bit disappointed, if I'm honest.

Hello, is that Shakeel? How you doing, mate? It's Reggie.

How you doing? Have you just woken up?

Why have you just woken up?

Why are you stressed out?

He agrees to meet by the river an hour later.

But I'm worried this might be another no-show.

When he turns up,

he looks like a man who really doesn't want to be here.

How you doing? You all right?

You sure? You don't look it.

Talk to me, man, what's up? What happened?

How come you haven't been going to your classes?

What is it that's so hard about putting yourself out there?

Do you know what, Shakeel?

There's people watching this right now that don't know you,

don't understand the choices that you're having to make right now,

they're going to be thinking,

"If he just grinds it out,

"gets himself a job, does what he has to do

"and just swallows his pride, everything will work itself out."

Well, you say you're being real,

have you stepped back into that world...?

The last thing I want to see you do is go down

a road that you don't want to go down

but it feels like everything is pushing you in that direction.

Where you going to end up in two years, bruv?

I don't want you to go the wrong way, brother,

but this might actually be the last time I speak to you,

and I don't want to walk away thinking

that you're going to go in the wrong direction.

What do you think is going to happen to you?

What do you really want for yourself?

And how do you think you're going to achieve that right now?

'I really want Shakeel to keep the promise he's just made to me

'to give it a go,

'but sometimes wanting isn't enough.'

Look after yourself.

'I'm sad to be saying goodbye,

'I feel that Shakeel needs long-term help,

'but he's also got to learn to help himself.

'Let's hope he makes it.

'Back at the project in Covent Garden,

'one person at least is trying to make the best of his opportunities.

'Not only is Aaron becoming a success as a mentor,

'but they've also given him a job.

'Three days a week he earns eight pounds an hour doing admin,

'but it's less than what he would earn in a street gang.'

It tempts me every day. I see it every day.

It's part of my environment, that's all I see,

but, erm...it's a conscious decision

I've got to make as to, you know, where I see myself,

my family, my friends,

the people what's gave me opportunities now.

I can't let everyone down like that.

And what about Talisa?

How is she coping with life away from her gang?

Is she strong enough to do the right thing

and resist the lure of easy money through drugs?

I want to help but I know it's up to her.

I said we'd go shopping

to see if she's managing to budget for herself,

but when we meet,

she says she's just had to pay £200 in rent arrears...

..so I lend her 20 quid.

I've got to ask you, if we hadn't have helped you out today,

erm, how would you have paid for your shopping,

or would there even have been any shopping today?

-There would have been no shopping. I'm not going to lie to you.

-No?

-No.

What do you do in situations like that?

You just depend on your friends.

That is actually expensive.

So with the money that you're living off now from benefits,

where is all that money going?

-Be honest with me here.

-Yeah.

-Are you smoking any of that money?

Not as much as before.

A little bit, yeah, but not as much as before.

So what would happen if you stopped smoking?

-Do you not think...

-Save money. Save the money.

Even though I haven't smoked for three or four days, I feel fine.

It's just that when I get the money it's a bit tempting, but...

I hate to sound like an annoying art teacher or something,

but in the next 12 months, you're going to need to focus and not be drawn back in,

but, from what you're saying,

-there's a good chance you will be drawn back in.

-I won't, I promise.

Well, tell me something that will make me believe

that you won't be drawn back in.

If I went back, I'd be a bigger fool than I am now,

and feeling like a fool I don't like that feeling.

I'm not saying, "Never say never,"

but I know this is not going to happen.

You've just got to trust me on this one, Reg.

Trust me.

When I started this journey,

I thought that you make your own choices in life,

and that you just have to live with the consequences.

I'd always had to accept that,

and I believed that everyone else should do the same,

but what I've seen these last few months

has changed the way I feel.

I came into this process

believing that a person is in charge of their own destiny,

but since meeting people like Shakeel and Talisa,

I think environment has a huge say on how far someone can go.

I think, more than anything,

I've got a new-found respect for how fortunate I have been.

I found myself at a crossroads when I was younger,

and I had to make a very clear decision

not to go down a certain path.

I've looked at anybody who's made a bad decision

that's had a tough start as weak and as stupid

to a certain extent and...

..I think I've learned that there's much more to somebody

who's finding it tough,

especially somebody in a teenage gang.

This process has taught me

a hell of a lot about how hard it is to make a positive decision

when a negative decision can benefit you massively,

in the short term at least,

and when you're living hand-to-mouth,

the short term is so much more important.

Perhaps what the young people I've met really need

is a long-term future

that they believe is worth keeping out of trouble for.

Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd