Mini: A Life Revisited

ALARM SOUNDS

In 1975, the BBC broadcast a documentary about

a serial arsonist that shocked the nation.

Yes, Mini. What do you want?

Can I go to the toilet?

Known as Mini, the troubled yet charismatic fire starter was

just 11 years old at the time.

She had this cupboard full of old newspapers,

The Sun, equipment, goodness knows what. I just got the matches

and I set all the papers on fire and I went into this room, you know,

where all the blankets and that was and I set the material on fire

So, that's two rooms you set alight then.

Then I went upstairs and set the beds on fire.

Directed by Franc Roddam,

the film hits as hard today as it did all those years ago.

I think I should be able to set a fire if I want to.

How did you come in the first place to meet Mini

and to come across this story?

In 1975, I was making a documentary about a group of children

in a secure unit.

In the secure unit, there was a more secure unit where there

were 12 children who were considered dangerous, and Mini was one of the 12.

He was considered a serial arsonist

and he'd set fire to his family home.

It just so happened that there was a person in the house.

Mm-hm. That was your dad that time, wasn't it?

Yes!

'When I went to the assessment centre,

'they immediately suggested Mini'

and, first of all, I thought the name is strange.

The kids call him Mini Cooper. Yeah. "Oh," they said,

"He stole the head mistress's car and tried to drive it." So, they were

all like...they were selling him to me as the kid you should interview.

They said, "He's super-smart. He's great.

"He looks like an angel."

I don't fancy setting the school on fire!

And their assessment was right

He was really a smashing kid, really bright, very reasoned,

super clever, thoughtful,

very interesting and very brave and...

And very dangerous. Well, we had yet to find that out.

And I just sort of glanced a box of matches and I was standing there and

there was this whole box of matches standing on the mantelpiece.

I says, "Ah! I'll have them!" So, you know, there was this cupboard.

I just walked in and there was the cupboard full of papers,

and I said, "This is too much temptation!"

I wasn't meaning to burn the house down.

I said, "This is too much temptation. It's got to happen.

He's from County Durham. Yes.

They gave you this extraordinary access.

I think anyone who sees that film wonders how you managed to get it.

I think, partly, at that time, there was

a romance that the public had with television

and it was quite a modern thing Yes, we were a very open society.

You can come in, you can listen watch, do what you like,

and we trust you because we know you like this institution,

and we know you'll come to the same conclusions that we have.

'In fact, the film came to the opposite conclusions and

'that was because of Mini.'

You have your own opinions. Mm-hm.

Strongly. Mmm. Whereas, other people, who don't get into bother...

Don't have their opinions, Charlie.

Now, what do you think's better then? This is what I'm getting at.

You feel it's better to be like you?

Yes, it's getting us into trouble,

but, still, I'm not going to let everyone just say this and say that.

When I started working with Mini. I immediately liked him enormously.

I thought, "This kid is like a braver version of my childhood self."

And, uh, we came from similar backgrounds -

both industrial working class, both had very tough fathers,

both had very strong Catholic mothers, uh,

both were opinionated and both wanted to go our own way.

I was permitted to go my own way and Mini was not.

Now, we're going to meet Mini today. Mm-hm. But, first of all,

we're going to watch the film that you made 38 years ago.

Brilliant. Thank you.

ALARM SOUNDS

Yes, Mini, what do you want?

Can I go to the toilet? Yeah, OK.

Jack, Mini wants to go to the toilet

OK.

It's Mini again. (Right.) Toilet.

Can I just go to the toilet? Right, go on.

This boy, at 11 years old, is too dangerous to be allowed his freedom.

DOOR LOCKS RATTLE

MINI SINGS TO HIMSELF

Good night.

And she had this cupboard full of old newspapers, The Sun,

equipment, goodness knows what

and I just got the matches and I set all the papers on fire.

Then I went into this room where all the blankets and that was

and I set the material on fire So, that's two rooms you set alight.

Mm-hm. And I went upstairs and set the beds on fire.

And was anybody in the house? Aye, my dad.

Right, just date of birth, please.

23...8...63.

So, he's...?

11 and 2.

11 and 2? Mm-hm.

He's from County Durham. Yes.

Right, paint picture, please.

Michael is a diminutive boy...

'For the last five months,

'Mini has been at Aycliffe Assessment Centre in County Durham.

'Here, he's been tested, interviewed and analysed by psychologists,

'teachers and psychiatrists.

'This meeting will decide what's to happen to Mini.'

He particularly enjoys adult company.

He is occasionally enuretic.

Michael was admitted to Aycliffe School following a period of

two and a half years at Redworth Hall Residential School

for maladjusted children.

He was referred to the school when aged eight years

following two offences of arson -

one in his home and the other in a church.

In January 1973, while an absconder, Michael again set fire

to his home, knowing his father to be asleep upstairs.

Two months later, he returned to the gutted house

and set fire to what remained.

During his time at Redworth Hall, Michael absconded 18 times.

He received regular psychiatric oversight throughout this period.

Michael comes from a home where there are reports

of considerable problems in the family.

He started wandering, then running away from home when three years old.

While both parents accept they are unable to control Michael,

they have expressed determination that he should not feel rejected.

They have maintained regular contact with Michael

throughout his time at Aycliffe

Although he has appeared in court on only one occasion, Michael

has been stealing and committing offences of arson from an early age.

Right, thank you. And the medical we have...

He's below average height,

he's smaller than he should be for his age.

There are 90 inmates at Aycliffe Centre.

Mini is one of a dozen particularly disturbed

and disruptive children who live in a high security block.

Here, the staff observes and assesses the children at

all times as they play, as they relax and as they work

These tests will give us a chance to find out what you're like

and what you think you're like Some of them are educational -

reading comprehension and spelling to see how well you can read and spell,

and the other two or three are about your opinions, what you think.

That's one chance you'll get of giving us your opinions

telling us what you're like.

Most of the time we hear what you're like from

other people, like teachers and social workers, et cetera.

'When you open the book,'

you'll see that there are a lot of little

matchstick men drawings down the side.

Against each drawing...

..there are a number...

of different interpretations.

There's A, B, C, D, E.

How do we know what they're doing?

Now, you have to pick one from there that you think is most likely

to happen in that situation.

There's no time limit on it. You can take as long as you like.

OK?

"What does the person in the picture do?

"On a vacation in the mountains. . Hiding from the police...

"Trying to discover gold... Spying on the enemy...

"Crying because he was punished "

Hiding from the police.

Remember, we're asking you what are the differences between being

here at Aycliffe and being at home. You've got plenty of freedom.

You've got plenty of freedom at home and no freedom here, is that right?

What else? Not in vice, you don t.

What else? Do what you like. Where? Here?

At home. At home. Well, you can't do what you like here No.

LOCKS RATTLE

The only reason I done this was cos

something had happened between me and somebody else.

Maddie.

Might have been.

Do you love Maddie? Eh?

Are you still going out with her?

What do you think when you're engaged to her, you noggin.

Well, you could easily get divorced.

I just started getting a piece of glass and going like that.

Look, you can see my arms - perfectly all right,

except for when you dug your nails into me there.

That was your fault, wasn't it Yeah, I tried to grab hold of you.

Did you say night, night...?

I'll tell you something if you want to do that, Mini..

I'm not going to, don't worry. I m not going to do it. I'm not stupid.

Quiet. One at a time.

Write down what rules you would like to make in the school.

How many rules? Go home every weekend. Just the one.

We should go home every weekend Well, could you last a weekend

We'd try! We should have... Yes, Mini?

We should have, like, points, you know. Wrong!

Just a moment, one at a time.

Like, how good you are, you get a certain amount of points.

If you've got enough points, you get more privileges.

Yes, that's a good idea.

Aycliffe Centre is a transit camp.

Most of the children have been through the juvenile courts.

After exhaustive tests, the experts here decide where the children

are to be sent and what form of treatment each is to receive

I'm so gasping, I'd probably have 20 in a day.

I sometimes have ten in a day.

Ten?

What do you use your matches for? Just lighting your cigarettes, son?

You wouldn't use them for anything else? No?

I don't fancy setting the school on fire!

What have you been accused of? OK, what's the main thing?

Nicking.

The main thing is nicking?

What's the other things? Let's write them all down. Nicking..

And doing a bunk and that's that. And setting fires.

Doing a bunk, and lastly?

Setting fires. Setting fires.

Do you place them in that order Uh-huh. That's the most important?

Nicking? Uh-huh. Doing a bunk is...

..more important than setting fires?

No, I'd think setting fires is more important than doing a bunk.

So, you'd put setting fires second.

Yeah. Do you want to know what way I would put them?

What way? What do you think?

Fires first. That's right.

You've noticed that before, I suppose, with people.

Why do you think they concentrate on that one, then?

Because fire is very dangerous It's very dangerous...

If you don't use it properly. Yes.

What are Chipsticks, Mini?

Erm, they're little crisps.

Oh, you seem to have stolen an awful lot of them in your time

Do you like them? Aye. I thought you might.

I've got to mix them with the pop cos it makes me thirsty.

And you're also stealing firelighters.

Aye. And what are you stealing those for?

Or shouldn't I ask stupid questions?

No, you asked me a reasonable question there.

What are you stealing them for Because they've got, you know,

enough paraffin to keep alight for a long time. Mm-hm.

See, cos if you're just putting paper under it that goes up all at once and

by the time you've got the sticks on, it's not getting

enough heat to the sticks to make them burn,

so that stays alight for a long time. You know, enough time to...

So, they burn much better for starting fires? Uh-uh.

Do you do anything special with the stuff to make it burn better?

It depends what kind of fire I'm having.

There's different kinds of fires? Mm-hm.

What's the difference then? Can you explain the difference

I could be setting the shed on fire, I could be having a little stick fire or...

What's the difference between a shed and a stick?

Well, you can chop sticks up, you know.

You've got to sort of squirt.. You've got to put some oil,

something on to get a shed on fire,

or at least build it up with paper and things like that

and then set it all on fire, it gives time for the wood to go up.

What kind of oil do you mean? You know 3-in-One Oil?

Just squirt certain places, then set it all... I didn't know that burned.

It did. It's very good stuff. It's very good stuff?

It just so happened that I was standing there, right?

Watching the firemen and they squirted it and it missed

and it squirted me, right, and I got drenched right through there,

and I was standing there and everyone was round wondering,

and they didn't even see, they didn't notice it was me standing there

I was standing there watching the firemen put it out, right?

It was so dark, they didn't even realise it was me standing there!

'You've worked out things like 3-in-One Oil and'

firelighters on your own? Mm-hm

Because...well, you're interested in doing it, really, aren't you? Mm-hm.

Now, that's what you do. What do you think about it?

Do you think it's a good thing to do? Mm-hm.

To me it is, but to other people it's not. To other people it's not.

Can you understand their point of view when you say that?

Because people don't like having fires set all over the place.

Can you understand that? Yeah.

And do you not want to agree with them? I don't agree with them.

I think I should be able to set a fire if I want to.

If you feel like doing it, you feel you should be able to do it? Uh huh.

If they want to stop us, wait till the fire's going, then put it out.

What if you set a fire to somebody's house though?

Do you feel you should be allowed to do that?

No, I wouldn't set fire to anybody else's house.

What about setting fire to somebody's shed?

Well, your shed's nothing.

There's nothing good, there's nothing valuable in a shed, is there?

And what other places have you done it?

Me house. Your house, and have you done that more than once?

No. Yes! Twice.

Tell me how you did these ones

I just set old papers, you know, in a cupboard.

Oh, so you climbed in the window. Mm-hm.

Got the papers. Mm-hm. Set the fire. Mm-hm.

And climbed out the window again? Mm-hm.

Then you stood and watched? Uh-huh. Uh-huh? It was the bedroom window.

What did you see when you watched? What did you see?

I didn't see anything, I just saw the smoke coming out of

the bedroom window. What did you feel?

I felt good. If anyone was left in there and...it just

so happened someone was left in there.

You said, "Oh, God, if anyone was left in there..." God help them

God help them. And it just so happened somebody was in there.

It just so happened that there was a person in the house. Mm-hm.

That was your dad that time, wasn't it? Yes!

KNOCKS ON DOOR

FAINT CHATTERING

Hello, Roger. Can I see Michael

You've just come off work again have you? Yes.

Hello, son. Have you been a good lad? Aye.

I've got this for Michelle. You've got this for Michelle? It's a dog.

Shall we go before the mob get back?

Before we get killed in the rush, eh? Say cheerio to Mr Parsons.

Cheerio, Mr Parsons. I'll see you between

seven and eight tomorrow night Seven and...? Sunday night.

All right, cheerio, Mr Cooper. Behave yourself, mate.

We've got to look after you the best we can.

And when we got you put in there,

we didn't do it to get you locked away purposely, that we

didn't want you, it wasn't because of that.

We put you in one of those schools so that it could help you and

we thought that by putting you there, we were helping you.

Yeah. You see? You are.

Of course we are, but sometimes you don't seem to realise that

Because there's times where you re at this school,

you're just stooping off for no apparent reason,

and then when we ask you why you've run away, you say you don't know.

So, what can we do to try and help you?

We're doing our best by sending you to school, aren't we? Yes.

You know, we didn't lock you away.

You know...we don't hate you.

You know when I take you back and you misbehave at home... Yeah.

And I take you back on a Sunday night, don't I? Yeah.

You know I must report anything that you do wrong, you see?

Yeah. You know, and by me reporting you it's helping you

it's not going against you, it's helping you.

Yeah, I know that.

Here we go!

There's Kim.

Where's Kim?

There's Kim all right.

Kim.

LAUGHING: He knows it's me!

Don't you, old son?

Hello, Kim. Go on, get the door. Go on.

Kim! Hello, son. Hello, Kim.

Hello. Don't have to get excited, man.

Kim. Come on, Kim! Kim!

Who made this? I did.

Let's see its shaggy coat. Gorgeous.

You're a good lad, aren't you? You're a good lad.

You're a good lad.

THEY CHATTER AND LAUGH

Mum, we had to write down our three wishes and I says,

"I'd like to go to America and enjoy myself,"

and I can't remember the second one, I don't think.

Erm, I'd like a stereo record player with two big loudspeakers.

And...but I destroyed a few things - I destroyed...

Newcastle United's football ground and all guns.

I've got my gutty. Go and get my gutty.

We'll get that other one. Go on then, hurry on.

Mini hasn't spent much time at home in the last two years

and so he's a bit of a stranger to the other boys in the street

He prefers to play indoors with his two younger sisters

who he knows he can dominate.

Right, the first song...

We'll all come in with "I Hate The Devil", right? Right.

Now then, after that, you know you both step forward

and we'll all start singing it

After that, us two step back, Jacqueline stays forward,

she sings "I Could Always", right?

After that, you go in, you two sing "Speckled Frogs"

and after that I'll come in with "The 12th Of Never", right?

And YOU do your best because you do too much laughing, right?

I'll try not to laugh, I'll try You won't laugh.

Never mind, "You'll try not to laugh." You won't!

Right, so do your best.

You won't or I'll make you sit down and you won't come in with any

more songs, right? Don't laugh right, Jacqueline? Right.

Look at me when I'm talking to you. Because if you do,

I'll just make you sit back or stand back, and I mean it.

If you think I'm joking, you try laughing and you'll find out.

Right... And I don't want you to laugh so

you don't have to try, right? Right...

Remember, there's going to be people watching, like Mum and Dad.

Don't let him make you laugh.

If you think he's going to make you laugh, look over towards Dad.

# The devil is a sly old fox

# If I could catch him, I'd punch him in the box

# I'd lock the box and throw away the key

# For all the tricks he's played on me

# I hate the devil

# He is so bad to me

# I love Jesus

# He is so good to me. #

And the holy fathers are going there

to try to bring the Good News to them.

We wonder when we hear about these missionaries,

how we can help them.

And the Lord said,

"Listen to what the unjust judge has to say."

Now then, our God will see justice done to His chosen

who cry to Him day and night,

even when He delays to help them.

Think about it. He was crucified for no reason

He shouldn't have said he was the king of all kings.

But he was the king of all kings.

Yeah, well, he shouldn't go around telling everybody.

But he said that his...

you know, kingdom was not of this earth.

His kingdom was of a higher place.

That's why they crucified him.

But, you see, the people at that time couldn't understand that

because, I mean, there was kings on the earth. Get that out your mouth.

Do you not want to follow it or something? Why?

I don't believe it. But that's your religion.

That's the way you've been brought up.

That's the way we try to bring you up, anyway

And if you wanted to, you know you could understand it and follow it.

Couldn't you, now? I don't like following them kind of things.

What kind of things? But why? Tell me why? Give me a proper reason why.

Just...not "I don't know." Tell us why you don't want to follow it

Cos I don't like it. You don't like it.

And why don't you like it? Why don't you like it?

I've never seen God.

Well, neither have we.

That is rubbish.

You can't believe in anybody if you've never seen them.

Oh, but you can.

Look what he said to doubting Thomas.

Who?

When Our Lord said to Thomas the Disciple...

"Blessed are those that have not seen and believe."

Think about it. Think about the birth of the baby

and what a marvellous thing it is, and all the different things

that happen through life that you can't understand.

It takes a better brain than what ours are, you know?

I mean, He knows what's in people's minds

and why they do different things. I know what's in my mind.

I know you do, but you're not the only one that does.

God can see into your mind.

Well, I believe that.

Well, I don't. Because, I mean there's far too much happened that

you can't understand. But we'll see about this, won't we?

There's got to be another person better than what we are.

He never works miracles for me Hm? He hasn't done one for me yet.

Hello, Mini.

THEY SPEAK OVER EACH OTHER

He's been, uh, he been a good lad. Has he now?

He never gets in trouble on the weekend.

And I will write you this week Right?

- All right. Be good. Be good.

- Come on then, that's a good lad.

'I'm not a person that lets everyone just say this and say,

'"Right, we're sticking with this and that's it."'

You don't like other people...

Telling me what we're sticking at and what were doing.

If I don't agree, I'll say I don't like doing it

You have your own opinions. Mm-hm. Strongly. Mm-hm.

Whereas, other people who don't get into bother...

Don't have their opinions, Charlie.

Now, what do you think's better then? This is what I'm getting at.

You feel it's better to be like you?

Yes, it's getting us into trouble,

but still I'm not going to let everyone just say this and say that.

It's getting you into trouble, but you don't mind? No.

Now, what have you written for your teacher, Mini

I think teachers are here to educate kids.

Uh-huh?

That's it.

Well, tell me more.

I mean, kids have got to be educated.

I mean, if you want a job or something like that.

I mean, if you had to work your pay hours, I mean,

anyone could rob you of five quid or something, couldn't they?

You mean an employer? Somebody who pays you money for your job?

Right. I see. They could nick five quid and say,

"Can I get myself a drink?"

Have you met any teachers that you've particularly liked

I don't like any teachers. You don't like any teachers?

But still they're there to do their job, aren't they?

Did you like St Mary's? No. Why not? I didn't like the head mistress

Why not? She was nagging.

She always nagged at you. What was she nagging about?

Well, you know, she was saying, No whistling in the corridors!" Uh-huh.

She used to say, "Whistle when you get outside the gate." Uh-huh.

And what else? And she used to say, "No biting nails." Yeah.

And things, you know, she'll say it.

I mean, she nags about nothing All the time. Yeah.

I mean, if you go around the hedge, you know like some trees, right

Yeah. On the back was like a pond.

It's in the school and she says "No going over to the pond."

I went, "What's it there for?"

She chose to say prayers and I wouldn't say them.

She tried to make you say prayers and you...?

Wouldn't say them so she gave us the strap.

Did you keep refusing? Uh-huh.

What did you say? I was saying "I don't like saying prayers.

"You can't make us say prayers.

She says, "You're here to learn You'll do what you're told."

I said, "I'm not saying prayers "

She tried to force you to say them? Mm-hm.

So, she gave us the strap. You would never give in?

I never. She gave us the strap

And she strapped you? Aye.

Straight over the hand. What did you do when she strapped you?

She'd have, like, two little boxes, this side and that side full of

calendars and I set them all alight and they went up,

and I rolled it over towards the seat.

To the seat? Why did you roll it over towards the seat?

To set it on fire. Hmm.

Why did you do that?

Cos I didn't like it. You didn't like the church?

That wasn't nice of you. Yeah.

Had somebody not been nice to you there or something? Hm.

It was just an escape. OK.

An escape...

All right, it was a church attached to the school, was it

I see.

And then...did it all burn down this church?

Half of it did. Half of it did

Were you disappointed? Mm-hm.

Would you have liked it all to have gone? Mm-hm.

You know, you didn't like that school you were in.

Had you ever thought of, erm, burning it?

No. No?

While the head mistress... Too many kids in there.

You wouldn't like to do it where there were people? No.

Are you careful about that?

I don't...I don't want to get..

you know, involved in murder.

No. I mean, if I did it would just be murder, wouldn't it?

That's too bad, is it? Mm-hm.

You absconded three times in the month, didn't you? Yeah

When you returned to St Mary's you pinched the teacher's car. Yeah.

How did you do that? Did you go after school? Uh-huh

I went to the staff room. And? Took the keys, went down to start the car.

It was going "Brum-brum!" And I was sitting there, holding it...!

You couldn't drive it?

I was just driving it all over the school grounds going,

"Brum!" And here's me driving round saying, "How can I get out?"

Because the doors, you know, I was only saying now, I says,

"I'll try it," I said, "I'll stop."

I wasn't so sure about getting out! Mm-hm.

You don't get pleasure in the normal way with other boys?

So, you do a bunk?

That is, you run away?

Yep.

You returned...

..to Redworth that month, but the next day you ran away again.

Mm-hm. And you were picked up in Newcastle for shoplifting.

Yeah.

That's when I got sent down to court. Yeah.

That's the first time you appeared in court.

I don't know what's happened. Um ..

You were made the subject of a care order.

What does that mean? You were placed in the care of the local authority.

Yeah?

I got put in other places. Well, that means, uh...

..you have a social worker attached to you, who's

responsible for you. Hm. Yeah?

And you returned to Bernshaw waiting for a place here.

The social worker on the case

acts as liaison between Aycliffe Centre and Mini's home

I don't know where they're going to suggest on Friday.

We've got to wait and see, and we have got to be

prepared for the fact that it may be a fairish distance away.

We want him to spend a full weekend at home

Yes, this will obviously be taken into account.

Um...and...

you know, I think, at the moment you're going down every weekend

taking him out every weekend and it, obviously,

may be too far away for this to be possible every weekend.

Is there no possibility as a parent sitting in on this meeting? No

No, I'm afraid there never is in any of these assessment meetings,

no matter where they are.

The parents are never included

'Well, I think your dad hit you didn't he?'

What did he hit you for?

For being naughty. For being naughty?

So, you knew you'd been naughty

and yet you still tried to stab him after he'd hit you.

He did it the wrong way.

Well, how did he do it that was wrong? In what way was it wrong

Cos he used his fists. He used his fists, did he?

Uh-huh. Instead of just hitting you...

What would you have thought was fair?

Smacking me with the belt or something like that. Mm-hm.

I mean, it wasn't only the backside.

He punched me right into the ribs and that.

And what did you...? He's done that a lot of times.

We've got to live in here with our four children every day,

till they probably get married if they ever get married,

and they go on to live their own lives.

So, what we've got to do,

we've got to have some law and order in this house...

that suits us.

And if they do wrong, they've got to be punished.

And I always punish them if they do wrong.

Hard.

And I'll punish them hard, if they've done wrong,

I'll punish them hard.

It's bound to be wrong for us to be out of the friction without...

I'll punish them hard, there's no doubt about that.

You don't need to tell me things like...

how old your father is and things of that sort, cos I know that,

and what job he used to do and so on.

I want to know more interesting things, like why...

And you may not be able to tell me the things

I really want to know, in fact I don't suppose you will be able to.

You can ask what you want.

I mean, if I said, "You tell me what's exciting about fires?"

You'd find that an impossible question to answer, I'd expect

Wouldn't you?

I just like the flames.

Ah.

You like the flames.

Yes, but...

If you like the flames, one flame

is much like another, it doesn't matter...

what you set fire to, if you simply like the flames.

I mean...

..if you did it simply to enjoy the flames,

why not set fire to somebody else's house instead of your own?

I don't know.

Did that occur to you? No.

There's more to it than liking flames.

Hm.

Well, I think the trouble started with Michael...

It was when I was in the army..

and Kathleen was in hospital having Michelle.

I couldn't get any leave

because of circumstances, and what we had to do was

we had to bring Robert and Michael back up here.

Robert went to his aunts, Michael went to my mother's.

He was only just over two years old.

Now, he was at my mother's for six weeks.

I came back for him and he didn't want to go back home.

Now, when he came home,

he found Kathleen had come out the hospital with a new baby.

The baby was in the cot and the trouble stemmed from there.

It started from when he was about three. He just started wandering off.

Yes. And that started, it went from staying in to wandering off.

I mean, even the doctors saw at the time what was happening. Yes.

You know? They just didn't see. . It's just gone from bad to worse.

Most doctors thought it was a phase, he'd grow out of it.

They thought it was a phase...

It does often happen with children that age when there is a new brother

or sister, that this happens, but it is a phase that they grow out of.

In Michael's case, this hasn't happened.

They've come, your parents, to see you sometimes,

I think, haven't they?

At the weekend, and take you out for the day in the car. Mm-hm.

And according to these notes, there was some time recently when...

..your parents had a row in the car...

and your father made your mother get out of the car.

Have I got that right?

Aye.

Now, what was happening? Were you sitting in the backseat?

Aye.

What was the row about?

I don't know.

Is it to do with...?

Me dad just went off, you know down the beach and he left me

mam behind till she says, "Right, we'll go back." So, he got in the

car and he started to strangle her, and she got out and I came back here.

When you say, "He started to strangle her...

What do you mean? He really got her by the throat

Uh-huh. With one hand. Yes. He had one hand on the wheel.

Yes.

Of course, that's not the first time you've seen that happen, I think.

No.

Hm.

We fight a lot, normally!

We argue. You know what I mean We just don't get on very well

We're both very...

Sometimes we do, but...

..like, difference of opinions, like, if I think it should be this

and Kathleen thinks it should be the other.

You know, none of us will give

Is it a difficult question if I say, "What did you think about that?

Yeah, it could be.

Well, all the same, I'll ask you, "What did you think about that?

Well, it was stupid, I mean, he s only going to get himself into trouble, isn't he?

Well, I'm sort of asking, Mickey...

..who's side you're on,

uh...

in a quarrel like this?

Me own.

The side you're on is your own, yes.

Well, now, if you want to be at home...

..what stops you being there?

Behaviour.

Why don't you decide to improve it?

I have been doing.

The trouble is, of course,

nobody can say what you would have done if you hadn't been here.

I just sort of glanced a box of matches as I was standing there,

and there was a whole box of matches standing on the mantelpiece.

I says, "Ah! I'll have them!"

So, I just...this cupboard, I just walked in and there

was a cupboard full of papers, and I said, "This is too much temptation!"

I wasn't meaning to burn the house down.

I says, "This is too much temptation. It's got to happen." You know

it goes in me mind, I can't get rid of it, so I says ..

"All right, I'll do it!" So, I lit the matches and, "Whee! Woompf!

All the flames and that went, and then all the blankets

and the flames were coming out all over, because me dad..

this is the funny bit,

me dad came on the roof with nowt on!

And he doesn't, he doesn't wear anything when he's in bed, and he

came out on the roof with nowt on and all the ladies staring at him!

And he was all hairy! He's like a gorilla!

You can imagine that with all the ladies in the street!

I liked the laugh when he got out on the roof!

He just got out of bed, he had no time to slip any clothes on!

What did you mean when you said it was too much temptation?

You know it just goes in my mind, "You've got to do it!

"I've got to make that fire!" So, I did it!

Do you often get that temptation? Aye.

A lot of times.

Like for nicking and that, cos it goes in and it says,

"There's this great thing," you know?

As if I really want to do it and so I think it's a great thing

and so it happens.

Temptation goes through my mind and it can't come out.

Like, some things go in this ear and come out that way,

whereas this doesn't go in this side and come out that side,

it goes in there and gets stuck there.

'If I may now summarize the problem...'

home...

..home has been...

the scene of...Michael's problematic upbringing.

There's been inconsistency of handling.

He's experienced aggression and frustration.

Apparently, little attempt has been made to talk through problems.

Although parents are concerned and affectionate,

they find Michael beyond their effective control

'Let's have a go at treatment recommendations

'and then we'll discuss them later on.'

INDISTINCT CHATTERING

'One, that his positive attributes...

'should be capitalised on...

'at every stage of treatment.

'Two...

'..his physical skills should be built up

'in non-threatening areas, such as gymnastics, for example

'He needs to be protected against...

'bullying and intimidation in a larger peer group.

'Three...

'in an educational setting...

'..attempts should be made to extend his potential...

'and his very good verbal ability...

'should be utilised.'

INDISTINCT CHATTERING

'The family should become the focus of intensive case board, as

'indeed it has been,

'as much for the sake of the other children as, erm...

'for the sake of Michael himself.'

'Contact between...

'parents and child should be maintained and facilitated

'although its effects should also be very closely regulated.'

'Michael's social skills should be built up and

'co-operative attitudes developed in him

'through group activities that he can't opt out of.'

INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS

'In view of the history of...

'..antisocial behaviour,

'and the serious risk that Michael presents to himself

'and to the community...

'..he will require...

'long-term treatment under conditions of physical security '

But certainly what we are saying is that, um, in our view,

Michael's problems are such that we cannot entertain, um,

for his sake and for the sake of the public

to let him roam around freely in the community.

Do you agree?

THEY MUMBLE

Right, well, thank you very much.

We will then be making the appropriate application

in due course and, uh, we'll let you know what's happening.

OK?

Sit down.

DOOR CLOSES

You know we had your assessment meeting this morning?

And you've been asking me what's going to happen.

Well, I can tell you what hasn't happened.

You're not going back home.

We're not going to send you back to an ordinary school.

Um, we think your problems...

..are...sufficiently big...

..for some specialists to be involved with you.

For you to receive their attention.

We also think that some of the things that you do. .

..um, creates problems for you. .

and creates problems for other people.

And that we can't really allow for some of those things to go on.

We can't allow you to...

..go on setting fire to places

doing some of the other things you've done.

Well, how do you feel about that?

Not very happy.

Eh? Not very happy. No, I know you aren't.

Is that it? No.

There isn't very much we can do about it, Michael.

I know it doesn't make you happy,

but there isn't very much we can do about it.

OK, son? Uh-huh.

What is going to happen is that you're going to be

at Aycliffe for the next three or four weeks,

until we've found out exactly who's going to have you where.

And then I promise to let you know myself.

All right?

Promise what? I promise I will tell you where you are going...

..and who's going to be working with you.

OK. Right.

Now, anything we can do to

make your life happier whilst you're here?

No.

There isn't?

You've been here long enough, haven't you? Yeah.

Yeah. Are you getting fed up with staying in this place?

Uh-huh. You are?

Uh-huh. HE SNIFFS

Yeah, I know.

Right, well, as I said before, we don't

think it would be right for you to go back to an ordinary school.

It wouldn't be good for you, it wouldn't be good for other people.

Hey.

Go on.

Out you go.

Hello. Haven't I met you before He's our senior social worker, yes.

Would you like to take a seat?

I'm sorry about that.

I don't know if you remember my senior social worker.

We met before. Yes, we met back in December. Yes.

Now, I'll move over. Yes.

I don't think you'll be particularly pleased with this, but, um...

Well, we'll tell you if we're not.

We ruled out the question of him coming home, because apart

from anything else, you yourselves have said you couldn't cope.

Well, there's nothing guaranteed about this,

cos we don't know yet whether they'll accept him, you know,

they are making application from the centre for Michael.

It's a very good special treatment centre,

which is extremely good because they've got,

apart from anything else, they've got a higher ratio of staff.

It's practically a one-to-one ratio of staff to children. Yes

They've had some really good results from this place. Yes.

But it's in Essex. No chance.

There's no chance. As far as going to Essex is concerned, rule it out.

MUM: We'll think about it.

I've thought about it, it means he's away from home and it's impossible.

He's missing family contact and

that's one of the main things he likes.

He is not going to Essex.

HE SNIFFS

MAN SIGHS

All I'm saying is, I hope they'll have you.

I very much hope they'll have you.

I'll certainly be putting on all the pressure I can so they'll

have you, but, um, your parents will have to come to London to see you.

That doesn't mean you won't go home,

but I can't tell you exactly what's going to happen inside the place.

The people inside will have... What about tomorrow?

Eh? Did you decide about tomorrow?

About what? The weekend?

About the weekend?

Well, we don't think you should go home for the weekend. Right.

OK, son?

ALL SPEAK OVER EACH OTHER

But he's only 11. I agree he's only 11.

I'm not on about that, but just look at it this way..

You can't ask his opinion, if that's...

Of course, you can ask his opinion. He knows where he's going.

Does he want to come home on a weekend or does...?

Well, he'll naturally say he wants to come home on a weekend.

Of course he will, because he knows we're family.

But it's maybe not the best...you know, I mean,

he still needs treatment.

Of course he needs treatment, but can they not do it some other way?

Is there not an alternative school?

Near enough to that class of school?

In the area or even if it's in Nottingham somewhere? We can get down

to Nottingham, I've got relations there. I could stop a weekend.

It will have to be somewhere near Nottingham. Not happening!

SENIOR SOCIAL WORKER: Well, this is the only unit.

Not happening, even.

'This is the best establishment for a kid of this age,

'as we've said before, there aren't these establishments

'anywhere in the country. You know, they're not spread all over.

'This is one special unit where they get a relationship of Michael

'to one person who he can identify with.'

Now, they try to mould them,

to bring them up, to socialise them,

I'm not saying it can work, it works with some of them,

but it doesn't work with all of them,

but surely you've got to clutch at any straw.

You know, I mean, I cannot promise you... Do you want him to go?

No, I don't want him to go. I don't want him to go.

THEY ALL SPEAK OVER EACH OTHER

I think anything has to be tried. You think anything has to be tried?

To help Michael?

Well, if you know what you're doing by sending him down there. .

Don't you put the blame onto me Don't you make me feel guilty.

I'm not making you feel guilty

Why are you putting a brick wall between Michael and us?

That's what I'm getting at.

'Can I put it this way?

'Right, he's on a care order, which means that the authorities

'can decide what is good for him.' You can send him anywhere, can't you?

You're saying they've took over

You've still got the father's rights as a father of a child,

but you've lost the care and control of the child, which the

courts have decided that you are unable to exercise

so they gave the care and control to the authority.

Right. Right?

But, as I'm saying, if the solution is going to make...I mean,

I can't give you a guarantee that it will,

but this is the best solution that we can come up with at present,

and until somebody else brings up something different, this is

all we can try, and all we're asking you is leave it in their hands

Today, almost 40 years on, Michael 'Mini' Cooper

and Director Franc Roddam remain close friends,

but their lives have been very different.

Roddam would find fame in Hollywood, but Mini's life has been

defined by the decision made when he was 11 years old.

Shit.

That happened. I'm doomed!

Yeah, you're doomed, you're doomed!

Yeah.

A whole box of matches standing on the mantelpiece...

'A follow-up film was made ten years later in 1985

'and featured Mini watching the original for the very first time.'

I wasn't meaning to burn the house down.

I said, "This is too much temptation, it's got to happen."

You never saw that film, Mini, until...

nearly ten years later.

Yes, that's right. I, um...

I think it was broadcast originally in '75?

Um, and I wasn't allowed to see it.

Then when I made the second film ..

in '85...

..the first day of filming was me watching the original,

which was quite shocking, I have to say.

Shocking in what way?

I thought, "Could so much really have changed in ten years?"

Here was a little boy, he's really confident...

very opinionated,

very determined...

um, intelligent...

..but the adult...

..who was watching the boy...

was in stark contrast to that.

The self-belief had been eroded over a period of time.

I looked a little beat-up.

Felt a little beat-up.

And when you saw the film and you saw that little boy,

did you think, "Yes, that's the person I still am?"

I felt more like that's the person I want to be again.

Without the fire.

We'll all come in with, "I Hate The Devil", right?

BOTH: Right.

Now, then, after that, you both step forward

and we'll all start singing it After that, us two step back.

Jacqueline stays forward, she sings "I Could Always." After that, you go

in, yous two sing "Speckled Frogs",

then, after that, I will come in with "The 12th Of Never", right?

Franc, when you first came into Mini's life,

what did you make of him?

Were your sympathies immediately with him

or did you see that there could be problems there for...society?

When I met him, I thought, "This kid is...

"he's dangerous, but I think he's curable."

That's what I felt.

But the people in the institution,

certainly the psychiatrist there, said to me, "You have to get rid

"of that romantic notion in your head that people can be cured.

"Some people just have to be managed."

And he put Mini in that category and he said,

"This kid should be locked away for a long time and be treated.

Even though I'm not a professional, I disagreed.

I thought, Mini's OK, and...

..I thought there will come a time

when Mini will be able to express himself without fire

and show that, in fact, he's an OK kid and that guy was wrong.

Did you do anything special with the stuff to make it burn better?

Well, it depends what kind of fire I'm having.

There's different kinds of fires? Mm-hm.

What's the difference then? Can you explain the difference

I could be setting the shed on fire.

I could be having a little stick fire.

Why did fire become your weapon your resource?

I think, principally, um...

..it was my only voice at the time.

Prior to the fires beginning, um ..

..I was being told what to say what to think, what to feel,

what not to say.

Um, but never allowed any form of free expression.

When I was trying to...

if you like...challenge what was going on,

question what was going on,

it was generally met with brute force, aggression,

intimidation, threats, violence, yeah.

Um, and that began the spiral, if you like.

What did you mean when you said it was too much temptation?

You know, it just goes in your mind, "You've got to do it!

"I've got to make that fire!" So, I did it!

Yeah. Do you often get that temptation? Aye.

A lot of times.

After we finished filming, Mini thought, when we were filming,

he thought, "This is great. I'm allowed to talk, I have an opinion,

"people seem to like what I am saying.

"I like these guys, they're fun "

We just got up and left, like all film crews.

Within about a week or two, I got a call from British Rail Police

"Your nephew has arrived at King's Cross without a ticket." My nephew?

Anyway, I realised who it was, I went and picked Mini up.

It happened about 18 times over a period of time.

After 18 times, they called me and said, "It's not in Mini's interests

"for you to see him anymore.

"He's using you as an outlet to escape

"and an outlet not to take the treatment seriously.

"So, cut the ties."

They told Mini it was my idea,

and Mini, for ten years, thought that he'd been abandoned by his pal.

# Love you twice as much tomorrow... #

The second BBC film was made shortly after they reconnected,

and followed Mini as he emerged from a decade of confinement

and psychiatric care, reinventing himself as a comic magician.

I'd like you to put your hands together

and welcome the fabulous Mr Johnny Oddball.

APPLAUSE

Good evening. ALL: Good evening.

Oh, quick! I'm going to ask questions later so you'll have to be quick.

Do you know, I've got to take this off.

I feel stupid wearing this. Do you know, if my mother saw me

wearing this hat, a pink hat, she'd think...I'm going to take it off.

THEY LAUGH

'I never felt fully confident'

in what I was doing.

And I think, on some level, I never really believed in what I was doing.

I think it was a mask.

I think I used it for a while..

..to, um...

to mask that fact that I had just emerged after

many years of institutional life.

And rather than having to deal with the difficulties that

ensue from that...

I threw myself into the act.

A little trick, ladies and gentlemen.

First of all, a handkerchief, a blue one that used to be a red one.

And...a red one...

that used to be a blue one. You've seen this before, haven't you?

ALL: Yes!

After a period, it started to unravel.

Uh, as I began to unravel.

And...

I haven't done any magic for about 20 years now.

SLOW PIANO MUSIC PLAYS

'The problem is, often in cases such as this,

'when you get placed into a care situation,

'at a very, very early age you're removed from the family.. '

You then have to develop a whole new set of standards in order to

survive the environment you're placed in...

which are often more hostile than

the environment you were removed from.

Once you emerge 15 years later. .

..those standards...

which you've developed and kept. .

and protected...

..have to remain in the institution,

because they can't be applied in wider society.

Therefore, no sooner have you walked out of the institution,

you're actually only equipped to remain in it.

And, when you're alone...

what was once a very, very bright mind,

can actually become your enemy

In 1990, Mini committed another act of arson,

his first in almost 20 years, and was handed a life sentence

Jail, secure mental health units

and halfway houses have dominated his entire existence

But with Roddam's help, he's recently

channelled his experiences into a revealing new book.

I loved every aspect of writing the book.

I loved having a routine, a reason to get up,

you know, it wasn't a situation of having to get up in the morning

and then having no idea what you were going to do with your day.

Um, this gave me a discipline, a structure, a routine,

and I surprised myself, actually.

I exceeded my own expectations because discipline's a quality

that's been quite elusive for me for most of my life.

And to suddenly develop it...but I think that came

because I had a purpose.

As it turned out, Mini was like this extraordinary, devoted writer

and soon started writing massively and honestly and openly

and we ended up with a book which was 865 pages long,

which was an extraordinary achievement on his part,

and then together we spent over a year editing it

Um, what I thought was that...

I'd always been concerned about Mini's life inside

and what it was like to have to go through those experiences.

I realised I didn't know half of it.

There was a lot more to his life and a lot more to him.

What now, Mini? After the book? What's next for you?

Well, presently, I'm at peace more than I have been.

Um, in terms of what the book's given me...

it's given me back a large chunk of my self-belief.

When I read it in its current form...

..I saw the little lad again.

And I actually sort of quietly said to myself, "Oh, he has come back!

"He has come back! Great!"

Um, I'd like to take that forward, um,

in whatever form...I'm not entirely sure at the moment.

I perhaps would like to do another writing project.

Um, but I do believe...

in whatever direction I go forward with...

..I'll do so with more belief.

And if you want to see the follow-up

to "Mini", "Johnny Oddball",

in full, it's on the red button now.

Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd