Banged up and Left to Fail?

This programme contains some strong language and some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting.

'My name's Natalie Atkinson. On the surface, I seem like any other 24-year-old,

'but there's something a lot of people don't know about me.'

It's a list of your criminal convictions.

Battery, damage, theft, assaulting a police officer.

'Throughout my teenage years, I was a persistent offender, constantly

'in and out of police cells, and, once I turned 18, prison.

Looking back now and thinking about the time that I spent in here,

it's just mad. It's like... It was my life.

I'm just thankful it's not still going on now.

'I really regret my past behaviour,

'and wish I hadn't done the things I did.

'But repeated short sentences didn't rehabilitate me.

'Prison made me worse.'

I think the whole point of prison is about punishment,

but it's also about rehabilitation.

I wasn't rehabilitated. Not a chance. I was just punished.

I was contained. I was held.

And then let out. End of.

'I'm not alone. Nearly 60% of adults serving short sentences

'will reoffend within a year of release.'

I'll probably end up in prison again,

and I don't want to go back to prison.

'I want to find out why so many of us are coming out...'

Hello! You all right?

'..only to go straight back in.'

I don't want to go back to jail. I don't want to commit another crime.

But I maybe might.

If I don't have support, I know I'm going to reoffend.

Oh, it's freezing!

'I've moved on a lot since my offending days, and, get this,

'I'm even studying a policing, investigation and criminology degree

'in Carlisle.

'And this is the house I share with three of my uni friends.

'Growing up, I thought I'd never have a settled home.'

I just like things nice and tidy.

'As a troubled 12-year-old in Lancaster, I was taken into care

'and moved constantly between children's homes,

'foster placements and secure units.'

Byron Road Children's Home, Slyne Road, Rydell House...

I'm 24 now, and I'd say from about the age of 13,

I've lived in about 25 different addresses, easy.

'Over a quarter of kids in care end up in custody,

'and I was one of them.

'I started hanging round Lancaster town centre

'and getting into trouble with the police.

'Not long after my 14th birthday, I was sent to a secure unit -

'a place where children go instead of prison.'

You can feel lonely, afraid...

With me, I got used to it

after so many times. I just got

used to it and just accepted it.

'Locking me up didn't stop me offending when I got out.

'I ended up serving repeated short sentences in prison.

'I want to find out how being locked up affects other young adults,

and speak to those in charge to see what they think of the system.

'But there's something I need to do first.

'Until now, I've kept my background a secret,

'especially from classmates on my criminology course.

'But it's time for me to come clean.'

Telling people that I've got a criminal record is one of

the hardest things ever. You don't know how they'll react.

A lot of the people on our course actually want to be police officers,

some are special constables already...

SHE BREATHES DEEPLY

I actually feel sick to my stomach.

So if I hand over to Natalie...

Come down here, Natalie, and then it's easier to...

'It's now or never.'

This isn't awkward(!)

So, a bit of background about me. I went into care at about 12,13.

I eventually escalated into the youth justice system.

Within four months, I was a persistent young offender.

I've got 100-and-something offences.

A lot are for police assaults.

It's time for me to admit who I am.

I'm not ashamed of who I am, who I've grown up to be.

I want to use my past in order to, like, help people

that are currently experiencing what I used to experience.

People that are still in the system, a lot of people think that they're no-hopers,

that they're not going to achieve in life,

so I want to stand as an example that, "Yeah, I have been

"heavily involved in the criminal justice system,

"but I'm still a human being, I've still got emotions,

"so I can do something to change."

'I've hid this from them for two years and I don't know how they'll react.'

Why do you think that you, like, assaulted police officers a lot?

Because, when I went into care,

my family lost the right to, like, tell me what to do.

They had no authority over me at that point.

Obviously, police are authority figures.

The minute I connected with a police officer, I thought,

"You're not going to control me in any way."

I have a perspective on that.

I'm an ex-police officer.

I don't appreciate people assaulting my ex-colleagues.

I didn't appreciate being assaulted myself when I was a police officer,

but everyone's got a responsibility to say, "OK, people can change,

"people can bring their lives around."

For me to sit here and say I was a bit shocked

is a bit of an understatement, but I think for you to do this,

and for you to... It shows your character.

I think you've been really strong and I think you've handled it

-really well.

-Ah, thank you.

-I think we should all applaud her.

APPLAUSE

'Ashley's been my tutor since I started university,

'and he's supported me through thick and thin.'

I think you were very brave, doing that.

I know it wasn't easy for you to do,

but I think with your experience, you are in such a much better position

to help people, young offenders, to overcome the problems and recognise

-there is actually a way out of the offending cycle.

-Oh, yeah.

And I know that I'll end up with a job in the criminal justice system.

I still think that the Natalie I know,

the Natalie who's been working hard at university,

-would make a good police officer.

-Mm.

I know it's not going to happen. It can't happen, and you don't want

-it to happen...

-No.

-But I...

-Do you want to know something?

-Go on.

Growing up, I would have said,

if someone had asked me what job I would have been,

I would have been a police officer.

-But then, that trust between you...

-Oh, yeah.

-..and the police

-was destroyed.

-Mm.

-And, we have to acknowledge, through YOUR behaviour.

-Oh, yeah.

'A large part of my criminal convictions involve police officers,

'assaulting police officers.'

I feel really guilty now that I was the way that I used to be,

but there was no controlling me, there was no telling me.

'I've come to see my old police community support officer,

'John Millar.

'The last time we saw each other,

'I was scrapping with him in the street in Lancaster town centre.'

Oh, fucking hell.

What do I say?

"Hi, nice to see you?"

Fucking hell.

It's not awkward at all(!)

-Hello.

-Hiya, Natalie. How are you doing?

-All right, are you?

-You're looking really good.

-Nice to see you.

-Good to see you again.

-What have you been up to?

-Not a lot.

-No? Keeping out of trouble?

-Yeah.

Yeah? Well done.

I don't even recognise you now. Do you know what I mean?

-Crazy.

-Totally different, aren't you?

-No more trackies!

No more track... Yeah, no more trackies!

Right, what I'll do is I'll take you...

-Walk around where you would have been...

-Yeah.

-..when you were in...

Way, way back. You know, them kind of days.

-I used to think I was ten men.

-Yeah, tell me about it!

You used to fight like ten men as well!

'It's mad to think the last time I saw John I ended up in handcuffs.'

Do you remember that night?

-Bottles started flying.

-Yeah.

-Do you remember that?

-Yeah.

-Do you know what I mean?

Bottles started flying towards me, and you were off that way.

-But obviously you weren't fast enough.

-I was never fast enough!

Could you picture yourself with your bottle of cider?

No. I try not to! No, I can.

-Cider, trackies...

-Aye, trackies. Always trackies, wasn't it?

INDISTINCT SHOUTING

Hey, behave!

'Some things round here never change.'

Do one, come on. Don't be silly.

-Bet that brought back some memories.

-I know!

-That attitude.

It's weird cos it's like totally different, being on that other side

where I'm the actual person getting the abuse!

'My nights out in Lancaster would often end up here,

'at the police station.

'Coming back's bringing some bad memories.'

-Have a look in.

-You go in first!

-No, you go in first!

-THEY LAUGH

-I'll walk in first.

-OK. You shut the door!

And this is where you probably woke up a few times.

Yeah.

-Not good, are they?

-No.

I actually don't know how I spent that much of my time in here.

It's crazy, thinking about it now.

You had a vision, do you know what I mean? You just wanted to be

a rebellious type of person, where...

-Rebuke authority, basically.

-Oh, yeah.

-Bet you regret that now, though, don't you?

-I do regret it,

but I chose... I can't blame anyone else for the situation I've been in.

You'd know you were going to get arrested...

-So you...

-I wasn't bothered.

-Yeah.

-The thing was, it's scary that

-I used to actually want to go to secure units.

-Yeah.

It's sad, but at 13, we used to want to go back because it's the only

place where you feel settled, safe, not have to worry...

-And like you said, I'd thrive in that environment...

-Mm.

-..come out perfectly happy, or this...

-Yeah, for a couple of days,

-and then...

-And then straight...

-..straight back on it.

But then, there was... I don't know, there was just something about you

that told me that you were better and you would, one day,

-realise exactly where you were going.

-Oh, yeah.

Because...

As I keep saying, you had the brains, you had the willpower,

you had the common sense, you had the intelligence,

-but for some reason...

-I just didn't use it!

At that time you didn't use it, but look at you now.

-I know.

-I'm really chuffed for you. I'm really, really proud.

-Thanks.

'I can see now John did actually care what happened to me.

'I used to think the police were just out to lock me up.'

It has made me realise that they was more concerned about my young age,

my vulnerability, the welfare side of things, and they was trying to,

like, steer me away from the criminal justice system.

'Despite John's efforts, I was constantly in and out

'of secure units, but at least I felt safe there.

'That all changed on my 18th birthday.

'While my friends made the most of their new-found freedoms,

'I graduated to the adult criminal justice system,

'and a week after I turned 18, I was locked up in HMP Styal.

'I want to visit my old prison, but they won't let me in.

'It's crazy that the one time I want to come back, I'm not allowed.'

I can see some of the houses that prisoners are held on.

There's obviously the main gates, where you go in, in the prison van,

and then you go through, but you can't see the wing, cos the wing's at the other side.

'My history of assaults meant I was high-risk, and put on the wing with

'the most serious adult offenders. It was a whole different world.

'There was violence, fighting, aggression.

'I learnt more about drugs than I'd ever known,

'and got addicted to Subutex - a heroin substitute.

'Many inmates had mental-health problems,

'and one woman took her own life because she couldn't cope.

'I got depressed, started self-harming and became

'so aggressive they put me on strong medication.

'At the end of my sentence, I was released at the gate,

'with no help to find a house or a job.'

I think the whole point of prison is about punishment,

but it's also about rehabilitation.

I wasn't rehabilitated in Styal. Not a chance.

I was just punished. I was contained, I was held...

and then let out. End of.

I eventually changed my life through help on the outside.

Wendy was my youth offending team worker only until I turned 18,

but she carried on supporting me after that,

until I stopped offending.

Wendy's been more than a youth offending team worker.

She's always gone above and beyond.

She's a massive part of my life. I class Wendy like my family.

-All right?

-You're freezing.

-I know.

-Do you want a cup of tea?

-Yes, please. Coffee.

-Thank you.

-You don't have milk in that, do you?

-No.

'When I was at my lowest ebb in HMP Styal,

'It was Wendy who I wrote to.'

Thank you.

Now, that's December '07.

Can you read your writing?

Yeah.

"Hiya, Wendy. It's Nat here. How are you?"

I always used to say that - "How are you?"!

"Good, I hope. Well, I'm fine now. My head was gone the other day.

"It still is, but I'm more settled now.

"I can't believe I'm locked up again."

-SHAKY VOICE:

-I can't even read it.

This was a long time ago, isn't it? Seven years.

When you went to prison, I think that made it worse for you.

You had a big audience to play up to.

You never had that in secure units,

so then that just fuelled you completely,

and made you want to act out.

I do feel guilty for my behaviour while I was there.

I do. And the way I was acting.

And in the end, I think being in and out of prison,

and just growing up in general, is what worked for you.

I think if I had got out of prison and hadn't had the same workers,

I'd have ended up back in prison, and I think

it would have just been that never-ending cycle,

if I hadn't had that consistent support.

Because we'd always been there for you, and watched you fail,

and come back up again, then drop down, and come back up again.

That's why we're so proud of you now! Do you know what I mean?

Because you've done so well.

Just like a little girl, she's like a daughter now, she is.

I've set you off again now, don't you start.

You know that, and I've always told you that, so...

Innit? CHUCKLING: You're supposed to be happy now!

-I think they're happy tears.

-You don't look very happy!

Depressed! No, I am happy, I could have been so...

-I could have been in a different place now.

-Mmm.

When I first came out the prison gate at 18, all I had

was £46.50 - the standard discharge grant -

and the clothes I came in with.

I had nowhere permanent to live,

and felt like everyone could tell I'd just come out of prison.

Without friends like Wendy taking me in,

I don't know what I would have done.

You're often released homeless

and I would have been if it wasn't for them.

I'd have had nobody. I'd have ended up in a hostel if I was lucky,

if I'd have got a space.

And I'd have been back to prison in a couple of weeks.

Nearly 40% of offenders leave prison needing help

finding somewhere to live,

yet a large proportion don't even have anyone

to meet them at the gate.

My experience has made me want to help others

in the same situation.

Alongside my studies, I work in a hostel

which houses young adult offenders with nowhere else to go.

-Hello, Natalie.

-You all right?

-Yes, fine.

'Martin's 24 and has been inside prison seven times.'

I want to know if I can bid on free houses while I'm here.

Yeah, of course you can.

'This time, he really wants to turn his life around,

'starting with a permanent place to live.

'But his criminal record means he's been put to the back of the queue.'

They asked me on my form I filled in, did I have

any criminal convictions, and I thought, "I'll be honest."

You've got to be honest.

"I'll put it down on the form, it's not going to go bad for me,"

but because of my recent criminal history, they put me in band E.

It's sad, that, especially for young people, whether it's education,

employment, housing, you never get rid of it really, do you?

-What support did you have when you was released?

-None.

So you was just released?

Basically, turn you out at the gate and say, "There's £46.50,

"discharge grant from the Government till you get

"your benefit sorted out, goodbye and ta-ra."

And then you present yourself as homeless.

Yeah. To me, a jail shouldn't be able to release you

onto a street, they should have to find you accommodation

before you are released.

Do you think that's a big problem as to why people reoffend then?

-Yeah, definitely.

-No housing, you've got no prospects.

It's just easier sometimes, instead of all this carry-on all the time,

to commit another offence, go back to jail.

I pay 50p a week for a television licence...and that's it.

I don't want to go back to jail,

I don't want to commit another crime, but...I maybe might.

'I know how Martin feels.

'Many young adults see going back to prison

'as easier than struggling to make ends meet on the outside.'

For me, getting a job with my criminal record

was really tough.

I used to hate telling interviewers, and seeing

the look of horror on their face.

But the sad truth is that without a job and the money

that goes with it, you're much more likely to reoffend.

I've come to Preston to see Elliot.

Thank you.

'Elliot served 13 months in prison for a burglary committed

'to feed his drug habit. Six months on, he's now clean and needs work,

'but in the current job climate, with a criminal record AND

'a history of drug addiction, he's finding it impossible.'

It's just pretty soul-destroying when you don't get any replies,

responses, even acknowledgements from a lot of employers.

It just makes you feel...just crap.

'I'm accompanying Elliot on his daily visit to the Job Centre.'

We've got leaflet distributor,

direct sales adviser, industrial cleaner

and a distributor...

So how many jobs do you think you've actually applied for?

At least 15 a week, because that's what I have to do to make

the Job Centre happy. And in that time, I've not had one response.

-That's disheartening, isn't it?

-Yeah, definitely.

I'm not confident any more, I...

I've got bad teeth from using drugs, I'm conscious about smiling

when I see employers, so that will probably give me a bad vibe.

I can understand, totally relate to you, that you do feel

under-confident. I did, I don't like my teeth. I feel so self-conscious,

but you've just got to feel a bit more confident,

and I think you need to give yourself a bit more credit

and think, "I am trying."

'To increase his chances,

'I've suggested Elliot tries volunteering.'

-Get back into a normal working life.

-Yeah.

When you've got nowt to get up for,

you've got nowt to get up for, have you?

'First step is the YMCA, where I got

'my first chance of work after prison.'

I am with probation, I have got a criminal record.

Does it affect any aspect of volunteering with YMCA?

-It would massively depend on what your crime was.

-Burglary.

-Was it aggravated?

-No, no, no.

Just burglary. We would not have a problem with that, OK?

Right, great.

I'll follow these up today,

and if it's positive, like I said, we'll start Monday!

-Nice one, Mandy, thank you.

-Nice to meet you.

OK, you're welcome, no problem.

-So you're happy then?

-Yeah, that was really good.

Something to focus on.

That would be great if I could start on Monday, that would be

absolutely perfect, like. Thank you for suggesting it!

He seems, like, really excited that he's been given that chance

and that glimmer of hope.

I just really hope his references come back OK

and that he is able to start.

'I really felt for Elliot. I know that spending a long time

'locked up can destroy your confidence.'

In HMP Styal, I felt like I was just a number, not a person.

It got so bad I developed depression and started to self-harm.

Almost half of women and nearly a quarter of men in prison

suffer from anxiety and depression.

And these problems can carry on after release.

'24-year-old Sephton's been in and out of prison for years,

'and really struggles with anxiety on the outside.'

This is where I'm from.

Not just here, obviously when you run away from home,

you are from wherever you can stay, wherever you can live,

but, yeah, I grew up around here, my barber shop's just there.

'Sephton's problems started as a child.

'He ran away from home at 12,

'became involved in gangs and got in trouble with the police.'

I've known Sephton for probably 20 years now, I've seen him grow,

seen him turn into a man. All he knew was getting up to no good,

selling drugs, doing this, doing that,

and before you know it - he went to jail.

That's one thing you can get in the hood though, a good haircut.

Are you going to do mine now?

SIREN WAILS

'Sephton really regrets his crimes

'and wants to change his life.'

Thanks.

'But his experience on the streets and in prison

'has left him feeling mentally scarred.'

So, how do you think prison's failed you?

It's meant to be a punishment, but also to rehabilitate you.

Rehabilitating is not the thing, even fighting and bullying - wow!

You see it every day.

I've had fights, I've been beat up by, say, two, three people.

Sometimes you wake up and there's a guy

getting kicked in his head next to your door.

It's like being in the army.

Somebody in the army, when they're out in the trenches,

when they're out in war, they're constantly looking around,

bombs are going off and shots are being fired

and it's really hectic for them.

So then when they come back to society,

mentally, he has been programmed in such a way that he can't help

but react, and that is the same with people on the street and in prison.

So how has prison affected your day-to-day life now?

In jail, everything is basically done for you.

So I can't even use a washing machine.

I can't cook me a meal,

even making a cup of tea, like,

I can do it, but through the frustration,

through the mental breakdown of being trapped in a cell

for so long, some things become...

like an impossible task.

It's a year since Sephton left prison.

GOSPEL MUSIC AND SINGING

Attending his local church four times a week

is helping him deal with his anxiety

and keep him out of trouble.

So happy, it's a happy environment, like really nice.

That's what's basically got me. It's the positiveness, it's everything.

Yeah, it's really powerful.

I can see how it's helped you and the support that it's given,

-100%, definitely.

-Yeah.

'But Sephton's church can only do so much, and when he's not there,

'he's still struggling with everyday life on the outside.'

It was really good, she got to see what's helping me change.

But...if I don't have support, I KNOW I'm going to reoffend.

It's going to happen.

There's no way that I can stay out here,

in the state that I'm in, and not reoffend without support.

Sephton's at an important turning point in his life,

and I really want to help him make a go of things.

I know how hard it is to move on after prison.

It's been over three years since I was last released,

but I'm faced with my past every time I look in the mirror.

I just hate the front tooth, it's, like, black.

It just reminds me of being an ex-offender.

I've had it punched out, I've been hit in the face with stuff,

I was actually running from the police

and I had a WKD bottle in my hand,

and obviously it was wet and I slipped,

and it's obviously knocked it out.

I'm going for a consultation to see if I can get my teeth fixed.

-Hello, Natalie.

-Hello!

-Welcome, you all right?

What can I do for you?

-I'd like a nice, brighter, whiter smile.

-Yeah, I understand.

When I got into offending ways, I stopped looking after my teeth

and never went to a dentist.

So it was big step even going to one a couple of years ago.

I am happy, but I always look miserable

because I've got my mouth shut!

Give me a smile! Go on, that's good.

That's brilliant, thank you very much.

That's a lovely smile there, that's great.

First, we'd try and lighten that tooth,

-and then we'd put a veneer over the tooth.

-Yeah.

-I'm thinking it's the start now.

-Yeah, absolutely.

It went really good, I feel really relaxed now

and I actually CANNOT WAIT to start getting something done to my teeth!

It's not just your appearance that can be affected by prison.

While I was at Styal, I became addicted to Subutex,

a heroin substitute. And I'm thankful

that I haven't got an addiction now.

According to one survey, around a third of those in prison use drugs.

Over the years, Elliot's struggled with the drug addiction

which landed him in prison in the first place.

'So I'm visiting his parents to find out

'if they think being locked up helped.'

-Hello!

-Hello, Natalie, nice to meet you.

-Nice to meet you.

-Pleased to meet you.

-You too.

Oh, look at him there!

He was about 11 here, I think. 10 or 11.

Happy. It's like you've got no worries in life there.

Definitely!

He was very bubbly, very happy. Wasn't he?

He was happy, yeah.

He used to drive the teachers mad.

You used to get away with it, you used to drive them mad,

but you had a smile at the end of it, like.

I got away with everything, I thought I'd never go to prison.

So what do you think about Elliot going to prison,

do you think it was the right punishment?

Do you think prison works?

Did they really help you at all? I don't know.

I think it did help me, just going to prison,

I think the experience of prison helped me.

Well, perhaps its something we've never really discussed.

It's something that I know I don't want to go back to.

There's more incentive on me staying clean

and not relapsing, because if I relapsed again,

and got back onto the drugs again and went down that route again,

then I'd probably end up in prison again,

and I don't want to go back to prison.

'Elliot's positive about his prison experience,

'but there's something he hasn't told me.'

You came straight out of prison and used, love.

-Did you use on your release from...?

-The day.

-The day.

-The day I got out.

So obviously prison didn't stop you using drugs then?

It was the day I got out,

the guys I was released with, he bumped into someone,

he bumped into one of his mates, and he had gear and crack on him,

and yeah...it was the first time I came across it,

and I was like, "Yeah, I want it."

You've come out of prison and you're not that

further forward, Elliot, than what you were

before you went in, in respect to getting your life together.

No, I wasn't any further forward, in exactly the same place.

You're exactly the same, you're not getting your life together.

You know, we said by the time you're 30, you're going to

turn your life around, get on that bandwagon, I'm going to do this.

You're 31. I just don't think you are... You're no further forward.

How do you think prison failed Elliot?

I think ultimately it was the lack... the lack of rehabilitation.

It was punishment, but not rehabilitation.

I just hope you don't go back.

But I would like to say I KNOW you won't go back, but I can't.

I've had enough of talking about me.

I've had enough of talking about me now. I've had enough.

In another... I don't know. By the time he's 35,

he'll have sorted himself out

and got himself a lovely little life and, you know, he's happy.

That's all you ever want your kids to be, is happy, isn't it?

'It's clear Elliot's addiction and time in prison

'has been a massive strain on his parents.'

To be honest, I'm a bit more nervous now about Elliot's future.

He's said, in a way, that prison worked for him

because it brought him off the drugs, but obviously it didn't

because he's gone and scored within 24 hours of being released.

'Sephton's also finding life on the outside tough.

'His mental state meant

'he didn't make the most of opportunities inside prison

'and it's left him unable to cope on the outside.

'I've come to see if I can help.'

He feels bad enough as it is

and embarrassed about the situation he's in -

24 years old, struggles with the basics,

making food, making a drink, doing his washing...

Hiya!

'I think Sephton could be dreading today.'

When was the last time you cooked something for yourself?

Em...

I've never really cooked anything for myself.

Shall we go and have a look?

Yeah.

Right, what are we going to make?

I don't know.

So, what's that?

That's like a stir-fry, if you do chicken and noodles and some veg.

Would that be all right, do you think?

Do you like sweet and sour?

-Yeah, sweet and sour.

-Sweet and sour.

'I've been locked away in a cell for so long, and then'

my people skills is not very well, then paranoia,

so to do something like this, there will be some sort of panic inside me,

yeah, because I can feel it now.

-But hopefully now...

-I can change that.

-Yeah.

It's never too late, is it?

You could be on MasterChef in a couple of years, Sephton,

you never know!

Sephton seemed really nervous while we was in the shop.

'It's such a big thing for him.

'You can tell on his face he's actually thinking,'

' "How are we actually going to do this?" '

How are you feeling, then?

-Anxiety.

-Yeah?

Do you want me to chop the veg?

Yeah? Shall we start, then?

It's something there, I can't breathe properly.

Em, I don't know if I can do this, you know.

'I never expected him to react like this.'

Is it like a fear or...?

Yeah, it's fear,

not amounting to what I'm supposed to be,

or something like that. I don't know. It's like a mental block.

-That sort of like stops you in your track?

-Yeah.

'I'm just going to carry on, take it step by step,

'and see if he comes around.'

Don't they need to be chopped up more?

If you want them chopped up more, chop them up more.

-Smaller bits! Hide them a bit!

-SHE LAUGHS

I think I could get the hang of this.

You are doing ace.

Do you want to put it in?

I can see why some people like cooking!

You're actually making that, aren't you?

-Bet you didn't think that this morning?

-No.

When we went to the shop and got the ingredients,

I thought you was going to run a mile,

then for you to come over and start helping chop the peppers and stuff,

it was just ace. I thought, "Go on, he's done it!"

It's like a piece of art!

It's amazing, I feel even different in myself,

the fact that I know now

there's one less thing that I have to worry about.

-Do you feel proud?

-Definitely.

'Today I've witnessed, with Sephton, that the prison system

'hasn't done nothing for him.

'It hasn't guided him, it hasn't helped him.'

It's not effective,

it's not rehabilitating him.

It's going to be like that never-ending cycle,

the revolving door, that keeps happening.

He's going to come out, commit the crime

and go back if he doesn't get the support.

'Sephton's not the only one needing help to live on the outside.

'Many young adult offenders are from difficult backgrounds

'and have complex problems.

'But from my own experience and what I've witnessed with others,

'the prison system isn't geared up to deal with us.

I've tracked down one of my old governors

'at HMP Styal, Clive Chatterton,

'who has over 40 years' experience

'working in both male and female prisons.'

-Hello.

-Hello.

'I want to hear what he has to say

'about putting young, vulnerable adults behind bars.'

What's the overall lasting impression of Styal, then, for you?

If I was to remember Styal,

I would just remember Styal as being

fighting, anger, aggression.

I was 18.

There was, like, rapists, murderers. Someone took their own life

within the first couple of days of me actually going into the prison.

I wasn't new to the youth justice system, criminal justice system,

I'd been involved since being 13, 14 and I just found it shocking.

I can't sit here and say

I think prison should be a pleasant experience,

but the main aim of prison,

and this has been the same since I've ever been involved in it,

is always to keep people in custody. Right behind that,

we are expected, quite rightly, to do something with the individuals

while they are in prison to reduce the likelihood of them reoffending.

What if prison makes the person worse, then,

because prison made me worse?

OK. I think, in all my time, meeting thousands and thousands of prisoners,

there's less than a handful that I think you could say

that prison or something has made them worse.

One thing I always say to everyone, whether they're an offender or not,

is that we have all got control of our own lives,

we are all responsible for our own actions

and I sometimes think people can look for excuses

or want to blame others or some part of the system.

There's a bit of me sat here,

thinks, "Actually, prison has worked for Natalie,"

because of this fine, young individual I see in front of me.

I'm not trying to put a glossy spin on it.

No, I can understand where you're coming from in that aspect.

If I hadn't had that experience, I wouldn't be who I am today

and I wouldn't be. I totally agree on that point,

but prison did not help me

and I see it with other young adults and it breaks my heart

that people aren't strong enough to get through it

and it's just broken.

'I might not agree with everything Clive said,

'but I do take his point that it's not ALL down to flaws in the system.

'When I think about it, it wasn't until

'I took responsibility for my own actions

'and fully accepted I'd done wrong that I started to change.

'I want to see what other young adult offenders

'think about their crimes,

'so I've come to HMP Manchester to meet 26-year-old Billy

'who's being released after serving two months,

'the latest of several short sentences.'

Hello! You all right? I'm Natalie, nice to meet you.

So you're the ex-con?

Ex-con. Is that what we call us?!

Are you pleased to be out?

Yeah, obviously. I just spent two months in that shit-hole.

So, what was you in there for?

ABH. My brother and a copper.

I didn't hit the copper. I dislocated his shoulder struggling

because he was ramming my arm up my back like a prick.

What were your other charges for?

-Assaults.

-Assaults?

-And robbing cars, TWOC.

Good old days! Only joking.

-Were they good?

-No.

Never good when you get caught, is it?

So, how do you feel about your offence?

Do you feel remorseful for that?

Do I fuck, man!

-No.

-No!

-Why?

Brother's fine, if it was someone else, I would have done.

-What about the police officer?

-Fuck him, he gets paid for it!

Shouldn't have rammed my arm up my back, it was his own fault.

'Billy's totally justified assaulting a police officer,

'he's justified assaulting his brother,'

he's not bothered about it.

His whole attitude, he's not bothered.

-So, where are we going now?

-Probation now.

-Probation?

-Probably dive in the pub for a pint as well.

You're dying for a pint, aren't you?

It means you're free, when you have a pint in your hand!

Did you get your teeth done in jail? Yeah.

I was going around for years without teeth.

How did you lose your teeth?

-Drunken fight.

-Yeah.

So, how did that go?

All right, just got to see him next Tuesday.

-Will they get you a gym membership?

-Yeah, should do.

-Yeah. Something to keep you busy then.

-Yeah.

'Billy's short sentence doesn't seem to have done him a lot of good

'and I want to know whether the opportunities for change

'haven't been available or whether he just hasn't taken them.'

What amount of your offences are assaults, then?

20 assaults or something, about eight ABHs or something like that.

So, have you had any help or anger management or anything?

-No, no.

-Has probation not offered you that?

I've been offered it loads of times, but I've refused it.

You just haven't taken it. So you have been offered that support?

I've just refused.

Can I go for my pint?

'One side of it is about'

the failures, or the system not working correctly, yeah,

but at the end of the day, it's about the individual as well.

If that individual is not ready to make change,

no matter how much support is put in place,

they're not going to change until they want to.

'Not all prisons are the same

'and training and employment opportunities vary.

'On the wing at HMP Styal,

'although I got an NVQ in painting and decorating,

'I felt the priority was to keep me locked up.

'But not everyone's experience is the same as mine.

'I've come to Drake Hall, a female prison near Stafford

'that puts a big emphasis on

'preparing prisoners for life after release.'

Will you just show some ID at the gate when you come in?

All right, thank you.

'And this time I've been let in.'

Drake Hall houses over 300 women aged 18 and over

and Lisa Garnett is in charge of their rehabilitation.

I'm going to take you around and I'm going to show you

the ethos of Drake Hall,

which is very much resettlement focused.

We don't particularly have cells,

it is about women taking personal responsibility for themselves.

Thank you.

This is a typical house unit.

We have a communal association room,

a laundry area and a kitchenette.

Do they actually have their own keys for the doors?

Yes, here, their key is their personal key.

-Hi, I'm Natalie.

-Hi, Natalie.

-Nice to meet you.

It's nice and homely, isn't it?

Yeah, we try and make it as homely as possible.

'Sian's serving four and a half years for a drug-related offence

'and has been at Drake Hall for over a year.'

The places before I come here, you are literally locked up all the time

unless you're working, like cleaning landings or things like that.

Here, you have got responsibility to get yourself up and off to work

and you don't have someone to escort you,

-you have to go on your own.

-More freedom.

A lot more freedom, and I've been working at a dog kennel.

I go there every week as well,

looking after rescue dogs and things like that.

So you actually go out?

Yeah, I go out already, me. I've been doing it for nearly three months now.

-Excellent.

-It's good.

So, what's the likelihood of you being released and reoffending?

Em... No.

Never say never, but no.

Touch wood.

Touch wood, touch wood! But no.

'Drake Hall has its own hairdressing and beauty salon

'where women can gain NVQs to help them get a job on the outside.

'Katie's 24 and is serving seven years for drug trafficking.'

Hi, nice to meet you. I'm Natalie.

I would shake your hand, but I'm covered in hair.

She's currently working towards her Level 2 NVQ.

'Katie's just over a year away from her release

'and ultimately wants to open her own hairdresser's.'

It's like working in a proper salon outside.

We have client after client after client all day. It's stressful but...

-It's normal, though, isn't it?

-Yeah, it's a bit of normality.

They do nails and stuff, so it is good here.

-I've got an obsession with nails.

-And me!

Yours are a lot better than mine!

Mine are quite plain today. I've toned them down!

Do you think, because you've been given that option here,

to do your courses and actually focus on something,

how much of a part has that actually played in your rehabilitation?

A big part, definitely. I think being able to focus on something

and know that by the end of doing this I'm going to get something out of it.

It gives you that lifeline, really, where you actually

-feel that you can go about and live a normal life.

-Yeah.

Cos I don't want to be just like a typical prison bird, you know -

in and out, in and out, in and out, trapped in the system sort of thing.

Do you think you would have had a different view if you had received a shorter sentence, under a year?

I think, yeah. Cos I think the staff haven't really got enough time to work with you

when you're only doing a shorter sentence.

'It's good to see that Katie's used her long sentence productively

'and is looking forward to life after prison.'

I think the biggest difference I'm seeing is about support,

and the emphasis is really on rehabilitation.

They are getting the skills inside ready for when they're released.

And that's one of the biggest differences.

They're not being set up to fail, they're being set up to actually achieve.

'I want to know whether the focus on training and employment

'at Drake Hall has helped other women on release.'

So generally, then, what are the reoffending rates like from Drake Hall?

We have recently done a survey and it would appear that generally

-we have quite a high success rate with the over-12-months.

-Right.

-The highest success rate is with anybody who serves over four years.

-Right.

There's a very low reoffending rate on that,

but our biggest issue is with those serving under 12 months.

That's where we have the least success rate, and again,

that's potentially in relation to the length of time

and the availability of the kind of courses to be done in such a short period of time.

'It's good to know that prison can rehabilitate those on longer sentences.

'But I want to know what the Government is doing to

'reduce the high rate of reoffending for those on short sentences.

'I've heard about some controversial new legislation being introduced by the Ministry of Justice.'

'Madame Deputy Speaker, for too long the most prolific offenders

'have historically received the least support.

'This bill will change that.'

'The new plans mean nearly everyone on a short sentence will have to

'fulfil a strict 12-month supervision order on release.

'And if they don't comply, there will be consequences.'

-Hi, it's Natalie. I'm here to see Frances.

-OK.

-Thank you.

-DOOR ENTRY BUZZES

'Government critics say it's a backwards step,

'and I've come to the Howard League for Penal Reform to find out why.'

-Hi, Frances.

-Hi, Natalie.

'CEO Frances Crook campaigns on criminal justice policy.'

Do you think the current bills are actually going to have an affect on the reoffending rates?

Well, in the past, if you got a few weeks in prison, you got a few weeks in prison and then you were released.

What the Government is going to do now is insist that

if you get a few weeks in prison, you will, in addition to that,

get a whole year's supervision,

and if you don't do as you're told during that year,

you can be breached and you can be sent to prison again afterwards, and again and again.

So it's like several punishments for one offence.

And it will certainly affect young people who often live quite chaotic lives, sofa surfing,

and maybe they haven't got jobs, maybe they've got mental health problems.

So, to do exactly as you're told and to be exactly where you're meant to be every time

is a tall order for young people.

So many of them will end up back in prison for several times.

Why do you think they don't seem to class young adults as a vulnerable group?

I don't know why there isn't a proper protection for adults.

We protect children up to the age of 18, and that's international law.

There's a recognised agreement that anyone under 18 is a child and needs

special protection. But increasingly, science is showing us that 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23-year-olds,

they haven't developed fully and they do need extra protection,

and I hope the Government will recognise that.

It seems to me the Government's plans could be a challenge for young adult offenders.

'I've managed to get a meeting with the Minister for Prisons and Rehabilitation, Jeremy Wright,

'to find out why the Government thinks the new reforms will work.'

I'm quite nervous, to be honest, about meeting the minister,

but I want to know how he proposes that the current legislation

is going to reduce the high reoffending rates.

-Jeremy Wright, nice to meet you.

-Nice to meet you.

-Come and have a seat.

-Thank you.

So, do you think the current legislation, then, is going to be really effective for young adults?

What we want to do is make sure that people get some support in

the closing stages of their prison sentence,

and we want that support to cover the problems they've got,

whether that's a drug addiction, whether it's problems of education, whether it's problems of training.

We want that support to continue through that process of leaving prison

and for at least 12 months thereafter for all adults,

and we've changed the law just this year in order to make sure that that can happen.

Isn't it quite risky, though, extending the 12-month supervision?

Because obviously young adults do get a lot of short sentences.

-They've got nearly 60% reoffending rates just of short sentences...

-That's right.

..within the first year. Isn't it risky, though, telling them

they've got to be supervised for the year?

Won't that have a chance of increasing reoffending rates?

I think it's risky not to. Because, as you say, for the group of offenders that we're talking about,

those who get sentences of 12 months or less,

it's 60% of them reoffending within a year.

We do need, I'm afraid, to take in hand these people.

We need to say to those people, "Look, here's the deal.

"We will make rehabilitation available to you,

"but your job is to change your life yourself, you've got to do your bit.

"You've got to engage with this process.

"And if you don't, there will be consequences."

-And back to prison you go.

-And one of those consequences might be that you go back to custody.

It's good, all these suggestions of positive changes, but...

They're not just suggestions, it's what we intend to do.

So, for 18s and over, we think it's important that somebody takes control

of your supervision and your rehabilitation,

so that you are supported through that difficult period of coming out of prison,

and you're supported, as I said, for at least 12 months thereafter.

'I understand the Government are trying to support young adults both inside prison and on release,

'but I think some of the people I've met may struggle with this new regime.

'I've come to south London to see Sephton.

'In the past, he's been too anxious to attend referrals to the Oxley Centre,

'a clinic that specialises in prisoners' mental health.

'So I'm accompanying him to his first appointment to see psychologist Jackie Craissati.'

-So what does it look like, then? Does it remind you of anything?

-THEY CHUCKLE

-Yeah, it reminds me of prison.

-But at least you know you're coming out.

-Yeah.

'Even being in the waiting room a couple of minutes

'is bringing back bad memories for Sephton.'

A waiting room normally in jail is the place where

-a lot of convicts are all together at once.

-Yeah.

-And one split second, we're fighting.

-Yeah.

And then the guy's punching the guy in the head, like, constantly.

Sephton. Hi, I'm Jackie. Come and have a seat, Sephton.

Natalie, if you'd like to sit there.

I think it's some sort of anxiety.

I get this weird thing where I kind of spaz.

-Like, I kind of shut down. I get scared.

-Yeah.

It's like you've stepped into a battlefield, constantly on defence.

Looking around - who's going to be negative? Who's going to...? Who's trouble? That kind of idea?

Yeah. Who's going to get me? Who wants to hurt me?

It pressures me. It puts too much pressure.

It's like blowing a fuse, isn't it? What you're describing to me

is that you're so...vigilant, that's the word we'd use,

you're so, kind of, on red alert, di-di-di-di, all the time,

that actually you kind of blow a fuse and you don't move.

Ah, this makes so much sense. This is the first... Wow.

Oh, my days! Thank you.

My mind's moving too fast, doing so much,

that eventually it just, kind of...

-The body can't take it, kind of thing.

-Yeah.

How much do you think prison has to do with, like, my mental health problems?

It's relevant, definitely. When you come out, the loss of that structure

leads to a lot of problems in everyday life.

If you saw some kind of psychological therapist for a little while,

helping you with that and getting better at that...

I think I'd be able to deal with my problems so much better

than the way I've been dealing with them.

So how did that half an hour help you?

I'm not even the same person that walked in.

-It's proper given me insight into...my life.

-Mmm.

A light bulb just come to my head. It was like, "Wow, I've got the answer, I know what it is now."

That was amazing.

'I've had some good news about Elliot.

'He got his volunteer job at the YMCA, and today's his first day.'

-Hello!

-You all right?

-Yeah, are you?

-I'm fine, thank you. Priced by my fair hand.

Ooh! Very good! You'll be a pro on clothes, soon.

Yeah, well, I had a few problems today.

I thought one of the arms was missing, right?

-And it turned out to be a halter neck. It's very confusing.

-We're complicated!

So, has Elliot done OK, then?

Yeah, absolutely brilliant. He's been great.

Most people are quite nervous with it, but he's got stuck straight in.

-Brill!

-He'll be running the place soon.

-I don't know about that!

-Getting promoted, definitely!

Start of things to come, definitely.

Yeah, if it leads to something else, that's great.

But for the time being, I'm just happy to be doing something.

It just feels good to be doing something.

'Sephton and Elliot are moving forward, and so am I.

'Today's the day I get one of the last treatments for my teeth,

'and I can't wait for my new smile.'

No way!

That's really good, isn't it?

My teeth played a big part in the way I was feeling.

Definitely. Now I can smile and I can be happy.

I don't feel like an ex-offender. I'm just Natalie, now.

'It's not easy moving on with your life after prison,

'but one thing I have realised is that you can't use your past as an excuse.'

The system isn't perfect, and we're never going to have a perfect system,

but at the end of the day, it's also about individuals

taking responsibility for their own actions.

No-one can blame the system fully for the situation that they're in.

I think my message I would have for professionals, people involved in support,

never give up on someone and never label someone

as a no-hoper and they're not going to achieve,

cos no matter how much they're involved in the youth justice system,

in the criminal justice system, change is possible.