
Browse content similar to Teen Killers: Life without Parole. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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This programme contains some strong language | 0:00:02 | 0:00:04 | |
and scenes which some viewers may find disturbing from the start | 0:00:04 | 0:00:07 | |
I just killed Cassie! This is not a fucking joke. I stabbed her in the throat. | 0:00:07 | 0:00:11 | |
-Dude, I just killed Cassie. -Oh, my God. -Oh, fuck! | 0:00:11 | 0:00:15 | |
I mean, it went by so fast. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:16 | |
-Shut the fuck up, we've got to get our act straight. -OK. | 0:00:16 | 0:00:19 | |
High school is a very hard time. | 0:00:57 | 0:01:00 | |
I had no idea who I was. | 0:01:00 | 0:01:02 | |
I had no idea where I fit in among my peers | 0:01:02 | 0:01:06 | |
and I thought that I was | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
a nobody at my high school. | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
And I wanted to be known and so... | 0:01:12 | 0:01:17 | |
I tried all these different identities. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:21 | |
And I couldn't, you know, find an identity that I could... | 0:01:21 | 0:01:27 | |
not be pushed out of, I guess. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
So I got into Columbine. | 0:01:30 | 0:01:32 | |
'We saw these two kids. They were white and they...' | 0:01:32 | 0:01:37 | |
'Bombs are reported to have gone off.' | 0:01:37 | 0:01:39 | |
'Upwards of a dozen people were injured...' | 0:01:39 | 0:01:42 | |
Columbine kind of created a subculture | 0:01:42 | 0:01:47 | |
for disenfranchised, you know, kids, | 0:01:47 | 0:01:51 | |
who don't fit in anywhere. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:54 | |
I saw, at the time, they transcended their high school. | 0:01:56 | 0:02:00 | |
For the hour that they did what they did, | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
they were in the spotlight. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:06 | |
And that's what I wanted. | 0:02:06 | 0:02:09 | |
I wanted to be in the spotlight. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:11 | |
Actually, I was really actually going to do it. | 0:02:19 | 0:02:21 | |
INDISTINCT SPEECH | 0:02:21 | 0:02:25 | |
Hey, look, it's Cassie. | 0:02:25 | 0:02:26 | |
-Hey, look, I don't... -Hello, Cassie. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:28 | |
How are you today? | 0:02:28 | 0:02:31 | |
I'm getting you on tape, OK? | 0:02:31 | 0:02:33 | |
Say hi, please. | 0:02:33 | 0:02:35 | |
-Hi. -OK, see you. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
When I first met Cassie Stoddart, | 0:02:37 | 0:02:39 | |
I think the first memory I have of her | 0:02:39 | 0:02:43 | |
is we were joking around in class | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
and she was smiling. | 0:02:46 | 0:02:49 | |
And that's the image I have in my mind, now. | 0:02:49 | 0:02:52 | |
I can't get that out of my mind. | 0:02:52 | 0:02:54 | |
And... | 0:02:55 | 0:02:56 | |
Man, it's hard to talk about. I... | 0:02:59 | 0:03:01 | |
But in the beginning, | 0:03:05 | 0:03:08 | |
she was just a nice person and she... | 0:03:08 | 0:03:10 | |
..you know... | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
Sorry. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:16 | |
I was attracted to her | 0:03:22 | 0:03:23 | |
and I thought she was a special person. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:26 | |
But she started going out with this other kid I knew in high school | 0:03:26 | 0:03:30 | |
and it kind of struck me hard. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
And I was like, "OK, so I am a loser." | 0:03:33 | 0:03:37 | |
Wait! | 0:03:37 | 0:03:38 | |
-Have you seen Torey? -Nu-uh. | 0:03:38 | 0:03:41 | |
He's supposed to meet me here at 7:30 and it's 8:19. | 0:03:41 | 0:03:45 | |
He's an hour late. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:48 | |
You don't even care, do you? | 0:03:49 | 0:03:51 | |
-Not really. -LAUGHING: OK! | 0:03:51 | 0:03:53 | |
'I met Torey Adamcik in sophomore year. | 0:03:56 | 0:04:00 | |
'He started talking about the movie Scream, | 0:04:01 | 0:04:06 | |
'how it'd be cool to actually | 0:04:06 | 0:04:09 | |
'do a Scream-type crime.' | 0:04:09 | 0:04:12 | |
And I was like, "Oh, OK." He was like, | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
"Have you ever, you know, thought about that?" | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
"Not really. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:18 | |
"I mean, I've thought about other things like, you know, | 0:04:18 | 0:04:22 | |
"Columbine." | 0:04:22 | 0:04:23 | |
And he really wasn't into that. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
And I was like, | 0:04:26 | 0:04:27 | |
"Well, I could either be alone | 0:04:27 | 0:04:31 | |
"or I could join his plan | 0:04:31 | 0:04:33 | |
"and be with him and, you know, | 0:04:33 | 0:04:36 | |
"not be alone." | 0:04:36 | 0:04:38 | |
Torey got here and it was about eight months | 0:05:03 | 0:05:06 | |
where we would come up every three weeks. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:08 | |
And we'd leave right after work on Friday, | 0:05:08 | 0:05:12 | |
drive up all night, come stay in the hotel. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:15 | |
We wouldn't miss a visit for anything. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
Torey's a good kid and we enjoy the visits. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:20 | |
We have a good time | 0:05:20 | 0:05:22 | |
and Torey is the same person he was before he went in. | 0:05:22 | 0:05:26 | |
My mom still treats me like a mom | 0:05:26 | 0:05:28 | |
and she tells me to brush my teeth | 0:05:28 | 0:05:31 | |
as she's leaving the visiting! | 0:05:31 | 0:05:33 | |
And... | 0:05:33 | 0:05:34 | |
..tells me to go to bed early or whatever. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:38 | |
Just the typical stuff. | 0:05:38 | 0:05:40 | |
But I don't know, I think they're just worried about me. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:42 | |
You're just a really good kid. | 0:05:42 | 0:05:44 | |
Torey's a good kid. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:45 | |
And Torey is just a kind, kind, kind person. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:49 | |
And we're still a family. | 0:05:49 | 0:05:50 | |
He's still every bit as much a part of our family as before. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:54 | |
I remember the first article I read about my case. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:58 | |
Jeez, I mean, they made me sound like this brutal, | 0:05:58 | 0:06:01 | |
cold, psychopathic killer. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:04 | |
They were talking about Brian. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:06 | |
They were making you just like Brian. | 0:06:06 | 0:06:08 | |
-They put us, like, as the same person. -They lumped them together. | 0:06:08 | 0:06:11 | |
I only hung out with him for six weeks before this happened. | 0:06:11 | 0:06:15 | |
I think it's crazy how... | 0:06:15 | 0:06:18 | |
the...last week of me being on the street, being free... | 0:06:18 | 0:06:25 | |
really has affected the rest of my life. | 0:06:25 | 0:06:28 | |
If you were to watch that video and nothing had happened, | 0:06:28 | 0:06:31 | |
it would literally be a joke. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
I don't know if it was my... | 0:07:00 | 0:07:02 | |
It was probably my fault and I should've seen it, but I just... | 0:07:02 | 0:07:07 | |
He did not seem capable of something like this. | 0:07:09 | 0:07:12 | |
And...he completely caught me off guard. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:16 | |
I was just in... | 0:07:16 | 0:07:18 | |
I don't know, I just couldn't believe it. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:21 | |
There should be no law against killing people. | 0:07:24 | 0:07:26 | |
I know it's a wrong thing, but... | 0:07:26 | 0:07:30 | |
Hell, you restrict somebody from it, they're going to want it more. | 0:07:30 | 0:07:34 | |
We've found our victim and sad as it may be, she's our friend. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:39 | |
But you know what, we all have to make sacrifices. | 0:07:39 | 0:07:43 | |
Our first victim is going to be Cassie. | 0:07:43 | 0:07:45 | |
She's going to be alone in a big, dark house | 0:07:45 | 0:07:48 | |
out in the middle of nowhere. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:51 | |
How perfect can you get? I mean, like, holy shit, dude. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:55 | |
-I'm horny just thinking about it. -Hell, yeah! | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
I don't know if either of us would've done it if we were alone. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:04 | |
We fed off each other, I guess. | 0:08:05 | 0:08:08 | |
It was a formula for disaster in the end, you know. | 0:08:08 | 0:08:12 | |
The time is 9:50. | 0:08:12 | 0:08:15 | |
September 22nd, 2006. | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
We know there's lots of doors. There's lots of places to hide. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:24 | |
I unlocked the back door, so that's all unlocked. | 0:08:24 | 0:08:28 | |
Now we've just got to wait. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:30 | |
I was actually the individual who snuck downstairs | 0:08:30 | 0:08:34 | |
and unlocked the basement door. And... | 0:08:34 | 0:08:37 | |
Huh! It's that one...choice, | 0:08:37 | 0:08:42 | |
where I was just kind of going along with it. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:46 | |
I really didn't stop and say, "Why am I doing this?" | 0:08:46 | 0:08:50 | |
I just did it. And... | 0:08:50 | 0:08:52 | |
That one thing that I did, er... | 0:08:52 | 0:08:58 | |
you know, started this whole thing. | 0:08:58 | 0:09:00 | |
And that's something that is hard to deal with. Um... | 0:09:00 | 0:09:06 | |
Because all I had to do was just not do that | 0:09:06 | 0:09:09 | |
and this may have never happened. | 0:09:09 | 0:09:12 | |
Cassie was there alone and, er...we both had masks on. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:39 | |
He walks up and he tells me, er... | 0:09:41 | 0:09:44 | |
"You do something scary that's going to freak her out." | 0:09:44 | 0:09:49 | |
And I'm, like, "OK." And so I grab a door and I open it and I slam it. | 0:09:49 | 0:09:54 | |
And, er... | 0:09:54 | 0:09:56 | |
Er...then... | 0:09:56 | 0:09:58 | |
..then we just kind of go to the room and the crime happens. | 0:10:00 | 0:10:04 | |
And we stab her. | 0:10:04 | 0:10:06 | |
I really don't... | 0:10:06 | 0:10:08 | |
have a lot of v... | 0:10:08 | 0:10:11 | |
er...vivid, er...memories of the actual incident. | 0:10:11 | 0:10:17 | |
Er...I have what they call a... | 0:10:17 | 0:10:20 | |
..er...flashbulb images of that. | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
She's...breathing hard and... | 0:10:26 | 0:10:30 | |
and her eyes are open. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:32 | |
And she's looking off someplace else. | 0:10:32 | 0:10:36 | |
And, er... | 0:10:36 | 0:10:38 | |
And then I... | 0:10:40 | 0:10:42 | |
I remember... | 0:10:43 | 0:10:45 | |
Er...so many, like... | 0:10:45 | 0:10:50 | |
She wasn't screaming, but in my head, I can hear that. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:54 | |
I know she screamed before it happened to her. And, er... | 0:10:54 | 0:10:59 | |
But in my memories I have, | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
she's...screaming. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:07 | |
When it did happen, | 0:11:11 | 0:11:12 | |
I was just too shocked to do anything | 0:11:12 | 0:11:15 | |
and I just ran from it and hid from it. | 0:11:15 | 0:11:18 | |
And I made a lot of mistakes. | 0:11:18 | 0:11:21 | |
But... | 0:11:22 | 0:11:23 | |
They were... | 0:11:23 | 0:11:25 | |
I don't know. I just think... I look at myself now and I'm 21 | 0:11:27 | 0:11:32 | |
and I think how stupid I was at 16. And I just think... | 0:11:32 | 0:11:36 | |
..how I feel like | 0:11:38 | 0:11:39 | |
I'm paying for somebody else's mistakes at this point. | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
PLAYERS CALL TO EACH OTHER | 0:12:10 | 0:12:13 | |
When I was 13 years old, | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
I had a friend who was over. | 0:12:19 | 0:12:20 | |
He was hanging out in the house and my mom just went left on me. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:25 | |
He said, "Man, your mom's really a bitch. | 0:12:25 | 0:12:27 | |
"You should kill her." | 0:12:27 | 0:12:28 | |
And I mean, I didn't really take it seriously | 0:12:29 | 0:12:33 | |
but that's the first time the thought was planted in my head. | 0:12:33 | 0:12:35 | |
I started escaping into that daydream. | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
When things got really bad, I could say, | 0:12:38 | 0:12:40 | |
"Oh, yeah, one day they're going to be gone." | 0:12:40 | 0:12:42 | |
'In the early morning hours of December 17, | 0:12:42 | 0:12:46 | |
'15-year-old Jacob Ind slaughtered his mother and stepfather | 0:12:46 | 0:12:49 | |
'in their Woodland Park home with the help of a friend.' | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
'Jacob Ind reportedly tried to block out the screaming.' | 0:12:53 | 0:12:56 | |
'His appearance is that of a studious prep school student. | 0:12:56 | 0:12:59 | |
'But they say Jacob Ind was cold and cruel, | 0:12:59 | 0:13:02 | |
'that he recruited schoolmate Gabriel Adams to do the job.' | 0:13:02 | 0:13:05 | |
The kid was Looney Tunes. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:07 | |
And I just knew he would help, | 0:13:07 | 0:13:09 | |
so I asked for his help. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:11 | |
I just didn't want anything directly to do with it. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
I just wanted the problem solved, things to be gone. | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
I didn't want to see it, I didn't want to hear it, | 0:13:17 | 0:13:20 | |
I wanted nothing to do with it. | 0:13:20 | 0:13:22 | |
I just wanted them gone and that's what I thought would happen. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:25 | |
I was sleeping when I heard the gunshots go off. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
The .22 that I gave to Gabriel... | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
..really didn't have enough of a punch | 0:13:37 | 0:13:40 | |
to get the job done. | 0:13:40 | 0:13:42 | |
I went down the hall and saw the... | 0:13:42 | 0:13:44 | |
..their door was open to their bedroom. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
It was like one o'clock in the morning. And... | 0:13:49 | 0:13:52 | |
I saw my stepdad, he was bleeding | 0:13:55 | 0:13:58 | |
and he said he'd been shot. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:01 | |
So I went back to my room and I got some pepper spray | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
and I came back and I sprayed 'em with the pepper spray, | 0:14:07 | 0:14:10 | |
my mom and stepdad. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:12 | |
And I went into their bathroom and closed the door. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:17 | |
And I figured, | 0:14:17 | 0:14:18 | |
"OK, maybe this can end. | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
"Maybe this can be over by now." | 0:14:21 | 0:14:23 | |
And it kept going and going and going. | 0:14:23 | 0:14:26 | |
I couldn't see anything but I heard that there was still ruckus. | 0:14:26 | 0:14:30 | |
I just wanted it to be over. | 0:14:30 | 0:14:33 | |
And so eventually... The .357 was in the closet, | 0:14:33 | 0:14:39 | |
in the bathroom, | 0:14:39 | 0:14:41 | |
and I grabbed that. | 0:14:41 | 0:14:42 | |
I loaded it with one bullet and I opened up the door | 0:14:43 | 0:14:47 | |
and I saw my stepdad there, slumped kind of against the wall, | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
and I shot him in the head. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:52 | |
And he fell over. | 0:14:53 | 0:14:55 | |
I turned around and went back, put another bullet | 0:14:59 | 0:15:03 | |
and my mom was there. | 0:15:03 | 0:15:05 | |
I shot at her | 0:15:09 | 0:15:10 | |
and I missed her. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:11 | |
And... | 0:15:12 | 0:15:13 | |
So I turned around, went back, put in another bullet and... | 0:15:14 | 0:15:17 | |
..went to shoot her again. | 0:15:19 | 0:15:21 | |
And she asked me why, | 0:15:21 | 0:15:23 | |
cos at that point it dawned on her what was going on. | 0:15:23 | 0:15:27 | |
And I told her cos she was cruel | 0:15:27 | 0:15:30 | |
and I shot her and she fell over. | 0:15:30 | 0:15:32 | |
I was just so... | 0:15:46 | 0:15:48 | |
..I guess disturbed by what I saw. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
I grabbed my alarm clock, | 0:15:52 | 0:15:54 | |
went to the downstairs couch... | 0:15:54 | 0:15:56 | |
..and I just laid there. | 0:15:58 | 0:16:01 | |
And I couldn't think and I said, | 0:16:01 | 0:16:02 | |
"Man, I fucked up. | 0:16:02 | 0:16:04 | |
"I fucked up so bad." | 0:16:04 | 0:16:06 | |
Brian didn't want us to know how much pain he was in. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:26 | |
He kept that very, very separate | 0:16:26 | 0:16:30 | |
from our life with him | 0:16:30 | 0:16:33 | |
and the family's life with him. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:35 | |
He just didn't want us to know how much pain he was in. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:40 | |
That's the thing that kept us up at night the most, | 0:16:40 | 0:16:43 | |
for the longest amount of time, was trying to find... | 0:16:43 | 0:16:46 | |
trying to remember something that we missed. | 0:16:46 | 0:16:49 | |
We adopted Brian at birth. | 0:16:54 | 0:16:56 | |
When I think about our relationship | 0:16:58 | 0:17:00 | |
and how strong of a relationship we had with Brian and how... | 0:17:00 | 0:17:05 | |
..good of a relationship we had with Brian, it... | 0:17:06 | 0:17:09 | |
If you... | 0:17:14 | 0:17:15 | |
If you walked into our house back then... | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
..we were normal. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:23 | |
And why we didn't recognise | 0:17:25 | 0:17:28 | |
that we had such a problem... | 0:17:28 | 0:17:32 | |
..is horrific | 0:17:36 | 0:17:38 | |
and something we still cannot bear. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:43 | |
(I'm sorry.) | 0:17:49 | 0:17:50 | |
PHONE DIALS | 0:17:53 | 0:17:55 | |
RINGING | 0:17:55 | 0:17:57 | |
-Hello? -Hello, this call is subject to monitoring and recording. | 0:17:57 | 0:18:01 | |
'On November 6th 2002, Stacey and Gary Alflen were shot to death | 0:19:10 | 0:19:15 | |
'in what many say was the couple's dream home. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
'In opening statements, | 0:19:18 | 0:19:19 | |
'prosecutors painted the killers as cold-blooded who "kill for fun," | 0:19:19 | 0:19:23 | |
'maintaining that Josiah Ivy acted as the gunman.' | 0:19:23 | 0:19:26 | |
My brother is going to be 26 years old this year | 0:19:38 | 0:19:41 | |
and he will have spent ten years, a decade, in prison. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:44 | |
And it's a commitment to stay in somebody's life | 0:19:45 | 0:19:48 | |
with that circumstance. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:50 | |
The majority of families forget about them. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:57 | |
My parents visit him every week, too. | 0:20:07 | 0:20:10 | |
He's chosen to forgive | 0:20:10 | 0:20:13 | |
and he's so very grateful of my parents' relationship | 0:20:13 | 0:20:17 | |
and willingness to commit to visiting him, | 0:20:17 | 0:20:20 | |
to being interactive in his life. | 0:20:20 | 0:20:22 | |
And they have a great working relationship. | 0:20:22 | 0:20:25 | |
What do you mean they have a great working relationship? | 0:20:25 | 0:20:28 | |
What I mean by a great working relationship | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
is that he's not embittered | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
by anything that happened in our childhood. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:38 | |
You know, my parents spanked us when we were kids. | 0:20:50 | 0:20:53 | |
I don't know if these days that's considered abuse or not. | 0:20:53 | 0:20:57 | |
I didn't really look at it like that. But... | 0:20:57 | 0:21:00 | |
OK. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:28 | |
OK, so maybe, yeah, | 0:21:30 | 0:21:31 | |
I guess there's some stuff I really don't want to talk about. | 0:21:31 | 0:21:35 | |
At least not on camera, you know? | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
But... | 0:21:38 | 0:21:39 | |
I don't ever talk about it. | 0:21:46 | 0:21:47 | |
No. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:51 | |
As far as our childhood, it was... | 0:22:03 | 0:22:05 | |
..my parents regret a lot of it | 0:22:09 | 0:22:10 | |
and I think they would do things very differently now. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
But you can't go back in the past. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:16 | |
And Josiah has forgiven my parents. | 0:22:16 | 0:22:18 | |
I know you used the word but did you guys grow up in a cult? | 0:22:20 | 0:22:23 | |
Yeah. When we were younger, | 0:22:26 | 0:22:28 | |
we definitely grew up in, like, a religious cult. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:32 | |
I will tell you, I don't think... | 0:22:45 | 0:22:47 | |
Like, I don't... | 0:22:47 | 0:22:48 | |
..like remembering our old home. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:52 | |
And at the end there, | 0:22:56 | 0:22:59 | |
you know, | 0:22:59 | 0:23:00 | |
right before Josiah was going to be sent away... | 0:23:00 | 0:23:02 | |
..you know, you walk in every room | 0:23:05 | 0:23:08 | |
and you have memories of things... | 0:23:08 | 0:23:09 | |
..that you'd rather not have. | 0:23:11 | 0:23:13 | |
Do you feel like I'm still being closed? | 0:23:32 | 0:23:34 | |
I think you're being as open as you're capable of being. | 0:23:37 | 0:23:39 | |
On the abuse stuff, yeah. | 0:23:45 | 0:23:46 | |
AMBER: | 0:23:50 | 0:23:52 | |
Just... | 0:24:05 | 0:24:06 | |
How old were you when your stepfather molested you? | 0:24:51 | 0:24:54 | |
Four. | 0:24:54 | 0:24:55 | |
-Four... -Do you remember it? -..five, six... | 0:24:55 | 0:24:58 | |
A little bit of it. | 0:24:58 | 0:24:59 | |
I mean, it's still something very easy to run away from | 0:24:59 | 0:25:03 | |
and not address and not confront. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:06 | |
The brain is a beautiful mechanism | 0:25:07 | 0:25:10 | |
in keeping stuff like that shut out. | 0:25:10 | 0:25:13 | |
How long did it go on for? | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
And did your mom know about it? | 0:25:16 | 0:25:17 | |
Did you ever tell anybody? | 0:25:19 | 0:25:20 | |
No, God, no. I never told anybody about it. | 0:25:20 | 0:25:23 | |
Can I ask what they did to you? | 0:25:23 | 0:25:25 | |
It's not really something I like talking about, at all. | 0:25:25 | 0:25:29 | |
He would have us get undressed... | 0:25:33 | 0:25:36 | |
..then tie us, | 0:25:39 | 0:25:41 | |
start to masturbate... | 0:25:41 | 0:25:43 | |
And after he was done, | 0:25:44 | 0:25:46 | |
he would get dressed... | 0:25:46 | 0:25:47 | |
..and say, "You're so BLEEPing dirty. | 0:25:52 | 0:25:55 | |
"Go and take a BLEEPing shower." | 0:25:55 | 0:25:57 | |
How do you treat a kid like a piece of shit? | 0:26:01 | 0:26:03 | |
You know, how do you do that to him? | 0:26:03 | 0:26:05 | |
I can't wrap my brain around that. | 0:26:05 | 0:26:07 | |
I mean...just the cruelty of it. | 0:26:07 | 0:26:10 | |
My mom used to give me enemas, | 0:26:15 | 0:26:16 | |
from when I was like four or five years old and stuff, | 0:26:16 | 0:26:19 | |
for reasons that didn't make any sense, you know? | 0:26:19 | 0:26:22 | |
To me, you think back and it's like, "Well, that's odd." | 0:26:23 | 0:26:27 | |
My stepdad was the source of terror. | 0:26:29 | 0:26:33 | |
He'd slam me up against the wall and tell me he'd crush my head in. | 0:26:33 | 0:26:37 | |
But that was more tolerable really, | 0:26:37 | 0:26:40 | |
to me, | 0:26:40 | 0:26:42 | |
than the cruelty and coldness of my mom. | 0:26:42 | 0:26:45 | |
That... | 0:26:46 | 0:26:47 | |
..filled me with more despair than anything else. | 0:26:49 | 0:26:51 | |
I could put up with getting beat up, that's nothing. | 0:26:51 | 0:26:54 | |
It hurts a little while and then it goes away. | 0:26:54 | 0:26:57 | |
But being berated for three hours at a time, four hours at a time, | 0:26:57 | 0:27:02 | |
being told how you're worthless, how you deserved what you got. | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
When I was a little kid, | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
and this is when I was getting molested | 0:27:08 | 0:27:11 | |
and probably the worst abuse... | 0:27:11 | 0:27:14 | |
..my mom told me never to tell the cops anything | 0:27:15 | 0:27:19 | |
cos if I ever called the cops, | 0:27:19 | 0:27:21 | |
they would come and give THEM a medal | 0:27:21 | 0:27:25 | |
because I was such a horrible, rotten kid | 0:27:25 | 0:27:28 | |
who deserved what they gave me. | 0:27:28 | 0:27:30 | |
And that stuck with me. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:34 | |
I spoke up as much as I could... | 0:27:35 | 0:27:39 | |
..with as weak as I was at the time, | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
I thought I was screaming from the mountaintop. | 0:27:43 | 0:27:45 | |
You know, objectively I was making tiny whimpers. | 0:27:47 | 0:27:51 | |
But I raised every red flag I could | 0:27:51 | 0:27:54 | |
and no-one paid attention. | 0:27:54 | 0:27:56 | |
I don't know, it put me in a very deep, dark place | 0:27:58 | 0:28:03 | |
where I didn't see an option. | 0:28:03 | 0:28:05 | |
I joined the Bloods at around the age of 14. | 0:28:44 | 0:28:47 | |
And as a Blood, you know, | 0:28:48 | 0:28:50 | |
it didn't really mean much of anything except selling crack... | 0:28:50 | 0:28:54 | |
..getting into some fights here and there with the Crips. | 0:28:55 | 0:28:59 | |
But eventually, | 0:28:59 | 0:29:01 | |
it became more serious. | 0:29:01 | 0:29:03 | |
As they started shooting at us more, | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
we started shooting at them more often. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
And the first time that I ever shot a gun... | 0:29:09 | 0:29:13 | |
..I killed someone... | 0:29:14 | 0:29:17 | |
..a young man who was just walking home from work. | 0:29:23 | 0:29:26 | |
We said to that man that day, he was walking down the street | 0:29:30 | 0:29:32 | |
and we said, "Hey, what's up, Blood?" | 0:29:32 | 0:29:34 | |
He said, "I don't gang bang." | 0:29:34 | 0:29:36 | |
One of the people I was with jumped out of the car and said, | 0:29:39 | 0:29:42 | |
"I didn't ask you if you gang bang. I said, 'What's up, Blood?'" | 0:29:42 | 0:29:45 | |
And that young man took off running. | 0:29:45 | 0:29:47 | |
You know, we laughed. "Oh, look at him. He's running!" | 0:29:49 | 0:29:52 | |
That man got back in the car, we circled round, | 0:29:55 | 0:29:58 | |
we were going home. We were about to go home. | 0:29:58 | 0:30:00 | |
We weren't even thinking about this guy any more. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:03 | |
But then we saw him running to a house. | 0:30:04 | 0:30:06 | |
And when he got to that house, he knocked on that door | 0:30:09 | 0:30:13 | |
and three Crips | 0:30:13 | 0:30:16 | |
came out of that house. | 0:30:16 | 0:30:17 | |
And that's how the whole incident started. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:24 | |
That's when I made the decision, | 0:30:26 | 0:30:28 | |
"I'm going to, you know, | 0:30:28 | 0:30:30 | |
"shoot a gun at these guys' house, to scare them." | 0:30:30 | 0:30:33 | |
TOREY'S MOTHER: He was just a kid. | 0:30:58 | 0:30:59 | |
I mean, at 16 years old he was very easily influenced by his friends. | 0:30:59 | 0:31:04 | |
Torey's much more of a follower than a leader. | 0:31:04 | 0:31:07 | |
-I mean... -Yeah, who I was at that point | 0:31:07 | 0:31:10 | |
and who I am now, | 0:31:10 | 0:31:12 | |
it's like totally different people. | 0:31:12 | 0:31:14 | |
But who Torey was at that age, at 16, he still didn't commit this crime. | 0:31:14 | 0:31:18 | |
-I mean... -He's not saying that. He's not saying that. | 0:31:18 | 0:31:21 | |
-I'm saying... -He has changed. | 0:31:21 | 0:31:22 | |
I've made some mistakes and I learned from them. | 0:31:22 | 0:31:24 | |
But your mistakes weren't anything you were charged with. | 0:31:24 | 0:31:28 | |
-They weren't the murder and the conspiracy. -Yeah. | 0:31:28 | 0:31:32 | |
That was Brian. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:33 | |
It must be harder because you're innocent, | 0:31:35 | 0:31:37 | |
to be facing it. | 0:31:37 | 0:31:39 | |
Yeah, I guess. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:42 | |
It's not unusual that he... | 0:31:46 | 0:31:49 | |
you know, had that response | 0:31:49 | 0:31:52 | |
and his parents having that response. | 0:31:52 | 0:31:56 | |
I mean, it's a lot to deal with. | 0:31:56 | 0:31:58 | |
I mean, you have to accept the societal brand | 0:31:58 | 0:32:05 | |
that you are a convicted murderer. | 0:32:05 | 0:32:08 | |
And that is a very scary term | 0:32:08 | 0:32:13 | |
to have affixed to your name. | 0:32:13 | 0:32:17 | |
And that's...so it's really hard. | 0:32:17 | 0:32:21 | |
He wants to please his parents. | 0:32:21 | 0:32:26 | |
He wants to go home. | 0:32:26 | 0:32:28 | |
And his, kind of, behaviour is really common | 0:32:29 | 0:32:33 | |
and it's ordinary, I think. | 0:32:33 | 0:32:35 | |
Um... | 0:32:35 | 0:32:37 | |
I think what makes somebody | 0:32:37 | 0:32:40 | |
extraordinary | 0:32:40 | 0:32:42 | |
is when they face everything | 0:32:42 | 0:32:46 | |
and just kind of... | 0:32:46 | 0:32:48 | |
..accept it. | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
It's a hard thing to admit, you know? | 0:32:51 | 0:32:53 | |
I killed Cassie Stoddart. | 0:32:53 | 0:32:56 | |
I stabbed a 16-year-old girl to death. | 0:32:56 | 0:32:59 | |
That's pretty hard to say. | 0:32:59 | 0:33:01 | |
Life never gets so serious | 0:33:08 | 0:33:10 | |
until something like that happens, you know? | 0:33:10 | 0:33:14 | |
You know, I was a 17-year-old kid, I didn't take anything serious. | 0:33:14 | 0:33:18 | |
I hardly ever went to school. | 0:33:18 | 0:33:20 | |
I was always skipping class, | 0:33:20 | 0:33:22 | |
smoking weed, getting drunk. | 0:33:22 | 0:33:25 | |
That's all I ever did, you know? | 0:33:26 | 0:33:28 | |
Sell drugs. | 0:33:28 | 0:33:30 | |
I mean, life wasn't serious. Nothing was serious... | 0:33:30 | 0:33:32 | |
..until I took someone's life. | 0:33:34 | 0:33:36 | |
I mean, man, I wanted to get out of the gang right then and there. | 0:33:39 | 0:33:42 | |
You know? | 0:33:42 | 0:33:43 | |
BRIAN: When I first got here, | 0:33:49 | 0:33:51 | |
I tried to blame others. | 0:33:51 | 0:33:54 | |
And I met this individual in here | 0:33:58 | 0:34:00 | |
and he asked me what happened, my crime. | 0:34:00 | 0:34:03 | |
And I told him, | 0:34:03 | 0:34:04 | |
"Oh, you know, I'm not exactly sure what happened. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:08 | |
"You know, they s...they said I killed her. | 0:34:08 | 0:34:12 | |
"I'm not even sure if I did or not." | 0:34:12 | 0:34:13 | |
And he sat me down and he was like... | 0:34:13 | 0:34:15 | |
"Stop giving me a whole bunch of bullshit, OK? | 0:34:18 | 0:34:22 | |
"If you want my help, | 0:34:22 | 0:34:24 | |
"you have to completely be honest with me." | 0:34:24 | 0:34:28 | |
And he taught me about how... | 0:34:29 | 0:34:31 | |
..I owe a tremendous debt to Cassie Stoddart | 0:34:33 | 0:34:37 | |
and the only way that I can even start paying that | 0:34:37 | 0:34:43 | |
is to first of all | 0:34:43 | 0:34:46 | |
tell exactly what happened to her. | 0:34:46 | 0:34:48 | |
And... | 0:34:48 | 0:34:50 | |
And do not dishonour her | 0:34:50 | 0:34:54 | |
in anything that you do in your life. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:56 | |
And I've, you know, I've tried that. | 0:34:56 | 0:35:00 | |
It's very hard. | 0:35:00 | 0:35:01 | |
It's very hard. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:03 | |
But I think that... | 0:35:03 | 0:35:05 | |
..that's all I can do. | 0:35:07 | 0:35:08 | |
And I have the obligation. I have to do that or I'm... | 0:35:08 | 0:35:11 | |
I'm... | 0:35:11 | 0:35:13 | |
..you know, a monster, I guess. | 0:35:14 | 0:35:16 | |
-SEAN: -When I got to prison, | 0:35:50 | 0:35:51 | |
I still got myself involved | 0:35:51 | 0:35:53 | |
in certain situations that were gang-related. | 0:35:53 | 0:35:57 | |
Still, even then, I felt like | 0:35:58 | 0:35:59 | |
it was like clothes that didn't fit, you know? | 0:35:59 | 0:36:02 | |
It just wasn't me. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:04 | |
And it only took one incident in prison | 0:36:04 | 0:36:06 | |
for me to say, you know, | 0:36:06 | 0:36:07 | |
"I'm living the same ridiculous way I was living | 0:36:07 | 0:36:12 | |
"before I got locked up, man, | 0:36:12 | 0:36:14 | |
"and I've got to stop this." | 0:36:14 | 0:36:15 | |
A friend of mine got into a fight with a Crip. | 0:36:17 | 0:36:20 | |
I went to retaliate. | 0:36:20 | 0:36:22 | |
After it was over with, I just lined all my friends up in the gym | 0:36:22 | 0:36:25 | |
and I told them, | 0:36:25 | 0:36:27 | |
"I'm out." | 0:36:27 | 0:36:28 | |
I'd been studying Islam, anyway, you know. | 0:36:29 | 0:36:32 | |
And I told them that I'm going to... | 0:36:33 | 0:36:35 | |
I'm going to take this way of life called Islam. | 0:36:35 | 0:36:40 | |
I'm going to take it serious. | 0:36:40 | 0:36:42 | |
And in order to take it serious, | 0:36:42 | 0:36:43 | |
I can't live two lives | 0:36:43 | 0:36:46 | |
because Allah didn't make two hearts in one breast. | 0:36:46 | 0:36:51 | |
So I chose to, you know, | 0:36:54 | 0:36:57 | |
live the life of the Muslim | 0:36:57 | 0:36:59 | |
and I left the life of a Blood behind me. | 0:36:59 | 0:37:02 | |
When I first went to solitary confinement, I was 17. | 0:37:29 | 0:37:33 | |
I was stuck in a cell and I couldn't run away from who I was. | 0:37:33 | 0:37:36 | |
And solitary, that's where all the worst of the worst are, | 0:37:38 | 0:37:43 | |
which at the time I thought the greatest convicts, | 0:37:43 | 0:37:46 | |
the tough guys, the real guys are. | 0:37:46 | 0:37:48 | |
But eventually, I had to decide | 0:37:48 | 0:37:51 | |
whether I wanted to be like those around me | 0:37:51 | 0:37:55 | |
or if I wanted to be the type of man I idealised in my brain. | 0:37:55 | 0:38:01 | |
And then I started looking at myself more in-depth | 0:38:02 | 0:38:06 | |
and said, | 0:38:06 | 0:38:07 | |
"I don't want to be who I am right now either. | 0:38:07 | 0:38:10 | |
"I don't like who I am right now." | 0:38:10 | 0:38:12 | |
So I started going layer by layer through who I was, | 0:38:12 | 0:38:16 | |
through how I thought, | 0:38:16 | 0:38:19 | |
what my outlooks on life were, | 0:38:19 | 0:38:22 | |
characteristics. | 0:38:22 | 0:38:23 | |
And if I didn't like it, I'd work on it, | 0:38:23 | 0:38:27 | |
work on that one thing till I got rid of it, | 0:38:27 | 0:38:30 | |
move to the next item. | 0:38:30 | 0:38:32 | |
And as I learned new lessons from my studies, | 0:38:33 | 0:38:38 | |
I'd learn to apply it into my life. | 0:38:38 | 0:38:41 | |
Forgiveness is one of them, | 0:38:43 | 0:38:45 | |
being a more forgiving person. | 0:38:45 | 0:38:47 | |
Um... | 0:38:48 | 0:38:49 | |
To try to have empathy with others | 0:38:51 | 0:38:53 | |
and to empathise with where they're coming from | 0:38:53 | 0:38:56 | |
and from their situation, | 0:38:56 | 0:38:58 | |
rather than solely from my own, judging from my own experience, | 0:38:58 | 0:39:03 | |
which is definitely a radical change in thinking | 0:39:03 | 0:39:06 | |
for most people! | 0:39:06 | 0:39:08 | |
I mean, it really changed how I looked at the world | 0:39:08 | 0:39:11 | |
and how I viewed human interactions and dealt with people. | 0:39:11 | 0:39:15 | |
And I... To me, it's one of the most important lessons I've learned | 0:39:15 | 0:39:18 | |
so far in prison. | 0:39:18 | 0:39:19 | |
BRIAN: I want to have a chance at a life. | 0:39:22 | 0:39:26 | |
I understand that, you know, Cassie can't | 0:39:26 | 0:39:29 | |
and I...I never ignore that. | 0:39:29 | 0:39:34 | |
You know, she is dead | 0:39:34 | 0:39:37 | |
and not anything is going to change that. | 0:39:37 | 0:39:39 | |
You know, I did something terrible. | 0:39:39 | 0:39:41 | |
And, you know, | 0:39:41 | 0:39:43 | |
there has to be consequences for that. | 0:39:43 | 0:39:48 | |
You know, everything we do in life, there are always consequences. | 0:39:48 | 0:39:51 | |
Oh, man, my consequences hurt my dad, my grandma, | 0:39:51 | 0:39:55 | |
my aunts, | 0:39:55 | 0:39:57 | |
even my friends and neighbours at school. | 0:39:57 | 0:39:59 | |
I had no concept that what I was | 0:40:01 | 0:40:04 | |
doing was going to hurt so many people. | 0:40:04 | 0:40:07 | |
I was completely clueless about it. | 0:40:07 | 0:40:10 | |
And that's...it's hard for me | 0:40:10 | 0:40:14 | |
to build up much sympathy for my mom and step-dad. | 0:40:14 | 0:40:20 | |
Though, I did originally, right off the back. | 0:40:20 | 0:40:23 | |
But for all the innocent people that were hurt, like my brother | 0:40:25 | 0:40:31 | |
and like my family... | 0:40:31 | 0:40:32 | |
..it's almost unforgivable. | 0:40:35 | 0:40:37 | |
And it's a weight that I try to avoid, try to keep off my shoulders | 0:40:37 | 0:40:43 | |
for years and now that I've embraced it, | 0:40:43 | 0:40:49 | |
my driving factor is, I have to make it up to them. | 0:40:49 | 0:40:53 | |
They're the only thing in this world that I give a damn about any more. | 0:40:53 | 0:40:57 | |
And they're the reason I want to be the best person I can be | 0:40:57 | 0:41:01 | |
and make something of myself, as to make it up for them. | 0:41:01 | 0:41:06 | |
I don't know, I have a lot of ambitions. | 0:41:06 | 0:41:09 | |
I mean, if I were to get out... | 0:41:09 | 0:41:13 | |
I mean, I know exactly what I would do with my life | 0:41:13 | 0:41:17 | |
but being here that's all I have is just these...it feels like all | 0:41:17 | 0:41:23 | |
I have is just to sit here and rot | 0:41:23 | 0:41:26 | |
and there's no redeeming qualities, there's nothing I can do, | 0:41:26 | 0:41:30 | |
really, to alleviate any... | 0:41:30 | 0:41:33 | |
I don't know, | 0:41:37 | 0:41:38 | |
it's like just watching yourself decompose. | 0:41:38 | 0:41:41 | |
It's just horrible. | 0:41:41 | 0:41:42 | |
He's been in prison six years | 0:41:46 | 0:41:50 | |
and he's still on his first day, | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
you know. | 0:41:54 | 0:41:55 | |
He hasn't progressed at all and that is going to hurt him in the end. | 0:41:55 | 0:42:00 | |
You know, either psychologically, | 0:42:00 | 0:42:05 | |
if he has a conscience, or the courts. | 0:42:05 | 0:42:09 | |
They don't want to hear that you're completely innocent. | 0:42:09 | 0:42:15 | |
You know, he's not innocent. | 0:42:15 | 0:42:18 | |
He's not. | 0:42:18 | 0:42:19 | |
You know, I'm not innocent, I'm guilty and he's guilty | 0:42:19 | 0:42:22 | |
and that's where we all should start at. | 0:42:22 | 0:42:27 | |
20 years, I would say about 20 years after that incident, | 0:42:35 | 0:42:40 | |
I began to try to put a plan in motion to, | 0:42:40 | 0:42:46 | |
instead of feeling bad, feeling down, | 0:42:46 | 0:42:48 | |
feeling depressed about what | 0:42:48 | 0:42:51 | |
I did, to try to help people. | 0:42:51 | 0:42:56 | |
Starting with the people that I was around, you know. | 0:42:56 | 0:42:59 | |
I didn't have to reach out to the free world, there was | 0:42:59 | 0:43:03 | |
a bunch of gang bangers in prison. | 0:43:03 | 0:43:06 | |
You know, so I reached out to them. | 0:43:06 | 0:43:08 | |
Let them know, you know, hey, there is a better life to live for you. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:14 | |
There's a life that makes more sense. | 0:43:14 | 0:43:17 | |
I had a lot of good, positive mentors in prison | 0:43:17 | 0:43:21 | |
and they would always hand me a book, they would always say, | 0:43:21 | 0:43:24 | |
"What have you read today?" | 0:43:24 | 0:43:26 | |
"I haven't read anything today." | 0:43:26 | 0:43:28 | |
"Well, good, I have something for you here." | 0:43:28 | 0:43:32 | |
And I came up like that in prison, I grew up like that in prison. | 0:43:32 | 0:43:35 | |
I began to educate others | 0:43:35 | 0:43:37 | |
and I began to pass on those same things that those men taught me. | 0:43:37 | 0:43:41 | |
I started feeling like this is what I'm supposed to do. | 0:43:41 | 0:43:44 | |
And I wrote to Governor Ritter... | 0:43:46 | 0:43:48 | |
I didn't write to beg him to let me out of prison, I wrote him | 0:43:52 | 0:43:57 | |
and asked him, would it be OK with him | 0:43:57 | 0:44:00 | |
if I were put in a position where I could try to keep young | 0:44:00 | 0:44:04 | |
people from doing the same stupid thing that I did. | 0:44:04 | 0:44:08 | |
My last son was convicted of first degree murder | 0:44:20 | 0:44:23 | |
when he had just turned 17, brain just wasn't mature enough. | 0:44:23 | 0:44:28 | |
I thank God that I'm not judged permanently on how I acted | 0:44:28 | 0:44:32 | |
when I was 16. | 0:44:32 | 0:44:33 | |
We need to fairly assess mitigating | 0:44:33 | 0:44:37 | |
factors in some of these juvenile cases. | 0:44:37 | 0:44:39 | |
And we need to fairly assess who that person is today. | 0:44:40 | 0:44:45 | |
If I could say something? | 0:44:45 | 0:44:46 | |
All of this makes it sound as if we're making excuses. | 0:44:46 | 0:44:50 | |
A life was taken, we can not mitigate that | 0:44:50 | 0:44:55 | |
and we can not say, "Somehow, it's OK..." | 0:44:55 | 0:44:58 | |
Because whether this kid was 15 or they're 35, somebody was killed. | 0:44:58 | 0:45:04 | |
But I think we have to look beyond that | 0:45:04 | 0:45:07 | |
and that's where Sharletta comes in. | 0:45:07 | 0:45:09 | |
Sharletta Evans lost her three-year-old son, Casson, | 0:45:09 | 0:45:12 | |
to two juvenile lifers in a drive-by shooting, | 0:45:12 | 0:45:16 | |
let Sharletta tell her story. | 0:45:16 | 0:45:18 | |
Hello, thank you, Mary Ellen, erm, 17 years ago my three-year-old son, | 0:45:21 | 0:45:29 | |
Casson Evans, was killed in a drive-by shooting. | 0:45:29 | 0:45:32 | |
21 bullets were fired, one bullet into the back window, | 0:45:32 | 0:45:36 | |
entered into his temple, shattered his brain stem. | 0:45:36 | 0:45:42 | |
So, the paramedics showed up, right when they came into the house | 0:45:42 | 0:45:46 | |
where we were standing, erm, Casson took his last breath in my arms. | 0:45:46 | 0:45:51 | |
I was overwhelmed with grief and sorrow. | 0:45:58 | 0:46:04 | |
Not knowing what to feel, not knowing to sit down, stand up, | 0:46:04 | 0:46:08 | |
go to sleep or stay up. | 0:46:08 | 0:46:10 | |
You're just consumed with sorrow. | 0:46:10 | 0:46:13 | |
I knew they were teenagers but I wanted justice. | 0:46:14 | 0:46:18 | |
Years are going by, one of the shooters, | 0:46:21 | 0:46:24 | |
his mother came to me after 11 years and asked me | 0:46:24 | 0:46:27 | |
would I beg her pardon, would I pardon her son | 0:46:27 | 0:46:31 | |
and her for these deeds that they'd done and I'm like, | 0:46:31 | 0:46:36 | |
"Wow! Are you kidding?" | 0:46:36 | 0:46:39 | |
You know, "No!" And I just walked away. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:42 | |
I began to argue with God, I began to cry and argue with God, | 0:46:44 | 0:46:48 | |
like, what is wrong with these people?! | 0:46:48 | 0:46:51 | |
They still don't get it! | 0:46:53 | 0:46:55 | |
I would not forgive anybody and I'm angry about this. | 0:46:56 | 0:47:00 | |
Right there, I recognised the presence of the Lord, | 0:47:05 | 0:47:10 | |
the spirit of God saying, "Would you forgive?" | 0:47:10 | 0:47:15 | |
My heart began to soften and have compassion, where I found myself | 0:47:15 | 0:47:22 | |
crying and praying and... | 0:47:22 | 0:47:28 | |
..literally, weeping for who they really were | 0:47:29 | 0:47:32 | |
and what has happened to them in their lives that caused this | 0:47:32 | 0:47:35 | |
act of violence, this emptiness within themselves. | 0:47:35 | 0:47:40 | |
This could actually be my very own son! | 0:47:42 | 0:47:45 | |
My surviving son was, at this time, | 0:47:45 | 0:47:48 | |
16 and 17 and...this could very well have been him. | 0:47:48 | 0:47:52 | |
So, I pretty much put myself | 0:47:54 | 0:47:58 | |
in the place of the offender | 0:47:58 | 0:48:03 | |
and the offender's family. | 0:48:03 | 0:48:05 | |
The guilt and the shame | 0:48:05 | 0:48:09 | |
is there for the offender's family. | 0:48:09 | 0:48:12 | |
My whole family... | 0:48:15 | 0:48:17 | |
My whole family... | 0:48:17 | 0:48:19 | |
..we won't ever be able to understand | 0:48:21 | 0:48:26 | |
what the victims' families go through | 0:48:26 | 0:48:28 | |
but our whole family... | 0:48:28 | 0:48:30 | |
..hurts. | 0:48:34 | 0:48:36 | |
Are we, as a society, | 0:48:42 | 0:48:44 | |
are we grown-up enough | 0:48:44 | 0:48:47 | |
and spiritual enough to say, | 0:48:47 | 0:48:48 | |
"OK, there is redemption and rehabilitation for some of them"? | 0:48:48 | 0:48:53 | |
And does this person deserve a second chance at life? | 0:48:53 | 0:48:56 | |
Has he shown remorse? What does that look like? | 0:48:56 | 0:48:59 | |
-JOSIAH: -I've made terrible decisions, | 0:49:13 | 0:49:15 | |
they're the worst I've ever made. | 0:49:15 | 0:49:18 | |
And I've had to live with those, ever since. | 0:49:18 | 0:49:21 | |
There are so many things that I should have done differently. | 0:49:21 | 0:49:24 | |
I'm so sorry about what happened to them. | 0:49:27 | 0:49:31 | |
I... | 0:49:31 | 0:49:32 | |
I don't know. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:39 | |
After the crime had happened, | 0:49:51 | 0:49:53 | |
I had horrific dreams, bad dreams, | 0:49:53 | 0:49:55 | |
where she was there. | 0:49:55 | 0:49:57 | |
And just graphic... | 0:49:57 | 0:50:00 | |
..gruesome dreams about her dying. | 0:50:02 | 0:50:04 | |
I would wake up in the night | 0:50:04 | 0:50:07 | |
and I would be scared, | 0:50:07 | 0:50:09 | |
like, terrified. | 0:50:09 | 0:50:11 | |
Now I have dreams of her at school | 0:50:21 | 0:50:25 | |
and everything's, you know, good. | 0:50:25 | 0:50:28 | |
She's...always smiling. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:31 | |
But I always know, in the dream, | 0:50:33 | 0:50:36 | |
that I killed her. | 0:50:36 | 0:50:38 | |
And those dreams are... | 0:50:38 | 0:50:41 | |
..are even worse. | 0:50:42 | 0:50:43 | |
And that's, like... | 0:50:51 | 0:50:53 | |
The only thing I can do | 0:50:53 | 0:50:55 | |
is hurt myself. | 0:50:55 | 0:50:56 | |
It takes away the... | 0:50:59 | 0:51:00 | |
..pain of... | 0:51:02 | 0:51:03 | |
..just knowing what I did. | 0:51:07 | 0:51:09 | |
Remorse equals pain, | 0:51:14 | 0:51:15 | |
your feeling of pain for what you've done to someone else. | 0:51:15 | 0:51:19 | |
And it's very easy to deny pain | 0:51:19 | 0:51:22 | |
and run away from pain. | 0:51:22 | 0:51:23 | |
And I did it for a long time. | 0:51:23 | 0:51:25 | |
And then I started becoming aware | 0:51:26 | 0:51:29 | |
of everyone else who was hurt... | 0:51:29 | 0:51:31 | |
..and feeling remorse for that. | 0:51:32 | 0:51:35 | |
And then running away from that pain, as soon as I realised it. | 0:51:35 | 0:51:38 | |
I said, "Whoa, no, no, I don't want to feel pain." | 0:51:38 | 0:51:41 | |
So, "No, it's not my fault that all those people are hurt. | 0:51:41 | 0:51:43 | |
"I'm going to still put it back on my parents. | 0:51:43 | 0:51:46 | |
"If they didn't do all that to me, | 0:51:46 | 0:51:48 | |
"then these people wouldn't have been hurt either." | 0:51:48 | 0:51:50 | |
And it took... | 0:51:52 | 0:51:54 | |
..probably close to a decade | 0:51:56 | 0:51:58 | |
before I could have the strength | 0:51:58 | 0:52:01 | |
to stop and say, "No... | 0:52:01 | 0:52:03 | |
"My fault." | 0:52:05 | 0:52:06 | |
What makes so much of it worse, | 0:52:08 | 0:52:10 | |
now, thinking back on my childhood, | 0:52:10 | 0:52:12 | |
is now that I'm a grown man, I've seen kids, | 0:52:12 | 0:52:15 | |
I've seen what the relationship's supposed to be with your parents. | 0:52:15 | 0:52:19 | |
Obviously they had to have been mentally ill. | 0:52:19 | 0:52:22 | |
You know, they were passing down garbage from their past, | 0:52:22 | 0:52:25 | |
you know, it's a cycle. | 0:52:25 | 0:52:27 | |
They had their own issues that led into it, | 0:52:27 | 0:52:29 | |
that lessened their culpability. | 0:52:29 | 0:52:32 | |
And when you start thinking about that, it's like, | 0:52:33 | 0:52:35 | |
"Wait a minute, they didn't deserve what happened to them | 0:52:35 | 0:52:38 | |
"that caused them to be that way." | 0:52:38 | 0:52:40 | |
And it starts feeding into itself and it's like, | 0:52:40 | 0:52:42 | |
"Wow, if I'm going to say I deserve another shot | 0:52:42 | 0:52:47 | |
"because I was screwed up and I was made to be who I am, | 0:52:47 | 0:52:51 | |
"then I have to have the same amount of empathy for them | 0:52:51 | 0:52:56 | |
"and what they went through, that made them into who they were." | 0:52:56 | 0:52:59 | |
-SEAN: -Now, on January 8th 2011, | 0:53:24 | 0:53:28 | |
one of the sergeants in my cell house | 0:53:28 | 0:53:31 | |
called me into his office | 0:53:31 | 0:53:33 | |
and spun his computer around and said, | 0:53:33 | 0:53:36 | |
"Do you recognise this name?" | 0:53:36 | 0:53:37 | |
It was the governor's website. | 0:53:41 | 0:53:42 | |
I said, "Yeah, it's my name." He said, "What does it say?" | 0:53:42 | 0:53:45 | |
It says, "Sean Taylor..." | 0:53:45 | 0:53:46 | |
"..sentenced in 1990..." | 0:53:49 | 0:53:50 | |
"..to life, for first-degree murder, | 0:53:53 | 0:53:56 | |
"has had his sentence commuted... | 0:53:56 | 0:53:59 | |
"..to parole." | 0:54:02 | 0:54:03 | |
I started crying immediately. | 0:54:10 | 0:54:12 | |
I went back in the cell house and hugged all my friends. | 0:54:22 | 0:54:25 | |
And, you know, everybody... | 0:54:25 | 0:54:27 | |
everybody just was, you know, standing around crying... | 0:54:27 | 0:54:31 | |
..praising God. | 0:54:33 | 0:54:35 | |
Everything feels beautiful out here, man. | 0:54:38 | 0:54:41 | |
But I never try to lose focus. | 0:54:41 | 0:54:43 | |
I say, even though, you know, I've been blessed | 0:54:45 | 0:54:48 | |
and I'm enjoying my life out here, | 0:54:48 | 0:54:51 | |
there's still always the mission | 0:54:51 | 0:54:54 | |
to make sure that I can do whatever I can do... | 0:54:54 | 0:54:59 | |
..whatever I can do to stop some young person... | 0:55:00 | 0:55:04 | |
..from doing something like I did. | 0:55:05 | 0:55:08 | |
I have personally seen my dad cry | 0:55:12 | 0:55:18 | |
two times. | 0:55:18 | 0:55:20 | |
And the first time | 0:55:20 | 0:55:22 | |
was when I won a scholarship | 0:55:22 | 0:55:27 | |
for a science project I did. | 0:55:27 | 0:55:30 | |
And the other time | 0:55:31 | 0:55:32 | |
was when he was on the stand in court. | 0:55:32 | 0:55:35 | |
And... | 0:55:35 | 0:55:36 | |
..he was crying because I hurt him so much. | 0:55:37 | 0:55:41 | |
Your parents, they love you so much | 0:55:45 | 0:55:49 | |
and then you show them this | 0:55:49 | 0:55:52 | |
by destroying them. | 0:55:52 | 0:55:54 | |
I've got special parents. | 0:56:00 | 0:56:02 | |
CRYING: I just wish I could... go back in time. | 0:56:09 | 0:56:12 |