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'Reports are coming in that one person is dead and several people | 0:00:02 | 0:00:05 | |
'have been injured after a shooting incident at Dunblane Primary School.' | 0:00:05 | 0:00:08 | |
I think I'm more prone to calling it the shootings. | 0:00:08 | 0:00:12 | |
Probably...because I was shot. | 0:00:14 | 0:00:17 | |
I don't ever call it anything like the massacre, | 0:00:30 | 0:00:32 | |
I don't like any unrelated words. | 0:00:32 | 0:00:36 | |
If somebody said, "What happened to your mum?" | 0:00:36 | 0:00:38 | |
I would say, "She was the teacher that was killed at Dunblane." | 0:00:38 | 0:00:41 | |
Dunblane was a tragedy for everyone who was involved. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:52 | |
Some people in the media called it an incident, | 0:00:54 | 0:00:57 | |
which was hardly appropriate. | 0:00:57 | 0:00:59 | |
I don't tell people that my daughter died, | 0:01:07 | 0:01:09 | |
I don't tell them that she was killed. | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
She was murdered. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:13 | |
Thomas Hamilton murdered her. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
..savagery today, savagery that has stunned this town. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:28 | |
'As a child, the anger was...not then,' | 0:01:37 | 0:01:42 | |
but looking back now, and, why? | 0:01:42 | 0:01:44 | |
Why... | 0:01:48 | 0:01:50 | |
my class, why my school? Why my town? | 0:01:50 | 0:01:54 | |
Why? | 0:01:56 | 0:01:58 | |
'It was a bit of a shock when Mhairi arrived, | 0:02:11 | 0:02:13 | |
'because I'm fair with red hair and she was so dark. | 0:02:13 | 0:02:18 | |
'She was very beautiful.' | 0:02:18 | 0:02:20 | |
I don't think she was a very girlie girl. | 0:02:23 | 0:02:25 | |
I think she was a little bit like me, | 0:02:25 | 0:02:27 | |
I don't think she was a very girlie girl. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:29 | |
We didn't go through the sort of dressing up in pink, | 0:02:31 | 0:02:35 | |
princess phase with Mhairi. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
Or at least not before she was five. | 0:02:37 | 0:02:40 | |
Sophie had always been | 0:02:42 | 0:02:44 | |
a very bubbly little girl. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:47 | |
As any biased father would think, | 0:02:49 | 0:02:51 | |
I found her a bright, intelligent girl as well. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:55 | |
The feedback I got from Gwen Mayor, her class teacher, | 0:02:56 | 0:02:59 | |
was that she was bright, she was performing well, | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
and she did always seem to enjoy it. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:04 | |
I don't know, to be honest, why my mum became a teacher. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:09 | |
I guess she just felt it was her calling. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:11 | |
I used to go into her classroom | 0:03:11 | 0:03:14 | |
and see some of the artwork | 0:03:14 | 0:03:16 | |
and stuff she would do, | 0:03:16 | 0:03:17 | |
and the ideas she had. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:19 | |
You know, there was, like, a hairdressing corner. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:21 | |
Erm... | 0:03:21 | 0:03:22 | |
And she just had lots of ideas, I think, | 0:03:24 | 0:03:26 | |
that worked very well with the wee ones. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:28 | |
I struggle to remember a lot about being a child. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:34 | |
But the memories I do have are happy, | 0:03:34 | 0:03:36 | |
and are all really in Dunblane. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:41 | |
We lived on the Wirral, | 0:03:48 | 0:03:50 | |
surrounded by family. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:52 | |
My job brought me up to Scotland. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:54 | |
Dunblane was the place we decided was a nice place schools-wise, | 0:03:54 | 0:03:57 | |
nice place for the kids to grow up so we moved into Dunblane. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
-So that would be '95? -1995. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:03 | |
I always remember when Steve came back | 0:04:06 | 0:04:08 | |
and said he'd got the job, | 0:04:08 | 0:04:09 | |
and we'll have to sell the patio furniture | 0:04:09 | 0:04:12 | |
because all it does is rain in Scotland. | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
When I arrived, it was the largest | 0:04:16 | 0:04:17 | |
primary school in Scotland, | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
it had a large nursery. | 0:04:19 | 0:04:20 | |
And at the age of 42, I felt very proud to be the head teacher. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:27 | |
I was a university lecturer, | 0:04:27 | 0:04:29 | |
I worked at the University of Stirling, and I was a single parent. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:33 | |
Sophie and I were on our own, because her mum, Barbara, | 0:04:33 | 0:04:37 | |
had died two-and-a-half years earlier of breast cancer. | 0:04:37 | 0:04:41 | |
And we'd become a very close unit, she and I. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:45 | |
'I liked seeing her most with her father. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
'And...I liked the two of them together.' | 0:04:53 | 0:04:57 | |
Mhairi was born fairly late in his life, | 0:05:01 | 0:05:04 | |
he was well into his 40s when she was born. | 0:05:04 | 0:05:07 | |
Look in the cupboard. | 0:05:07 | 0:05:09 | |
-He's a big man. -He's a big man! | 0:05:09 | 0:05:12 | |
I was pregnant with Catherine. I was about six months' pregnant | 0:05:12 | 0:05:16 | |
with Catherine. We were very much looking forward to her birth. | 0:05:16 | 0:05:20 | |
'Murray, he became unwell. | 0:05:20 | 0:05:22 | |
'He suffered some sort of catastrophic stroke.' | 0:05:25 | 0:05:29 | |
And he died a week later. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:31 | |
'Mhairi was very sad. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:36 | |
'That's the only way that I can describe her | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
'in the last three or four months of her life. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
'She was very sad.' | 0:05:42 | 0:05:44 | |
13th March was a particularly cold morning. | 0:05:58 | 0:06:02 | |
When we woke up this morning, | 0:06:02 | 0:06:04 | |
I was surprised to find that there'd been quite a heavy frost overnight. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:08 | |
There was ice on the windscreen of the car | 0:06:08 | 0:06:11 | |
and we were slightly delayed | 0:06:11 | 0:06:13 | |
because I had to spend a bit of time removing the ice. | 0:06:13 | 0:06:15 | |
I have a very clear memory of the early morning, | 0:06:21 | 0:06:24 | |
of driving from Stirling to Dunblane. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:27 | |
It was a beautiful morning, it was very bright, it was frosty. | 0:06:28 | 0:06:34 | |
The snowdrops were out in profusion. | 0:06:34 | 0:06:38 | |
There was even some snow on the ground. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:39 | |
There was a real hint of the summer to come. It was beautiful. | 0:06:39 | 0:06:44 | |
The university had arranged a small memorial service for Murray. | 0:06:47 | 0:06:52 | |
I think it was a chance to have a more intimate farewell | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
for his students and for his colleagues. | 0:06:56 | 0:07:00 | |
So on 13th March, the plan was, Mhairi would go to school, | 0:07:00 | 0:07:04 | |
I would take her, and then I think the plan was for my mum | 0:07:04 | 0:07:06 | |
to come and babysit the new baby, Catherine, | 0:07:06 | 0:07:10 | |
and I would go to the memorial service for my husband. | 0:07:10 | 0:07:13 | |
I just found out very recently that I'd won a battle on that morning. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
I'd been fighting with my mum | 0:07:19 | 0:07:20 | |
about what shoes I was going to wear that morning. | 0:07:20 | 0:07:23 | |
She wanted me to wear my wellies, | 0:07:23 | 0:07:25 | |
and I wanted to wear a brand-new pair of boots | 0:07:25 | 0:07:28 | |
that my uncle from Kuwait had sent me. | 0:07:28 | 0:07:31 | |
A pair of Kicker boots. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:33 | |
And she didn't want me to ruin them on the cold morning, | 0:07:33 | 0:07:38 | |
and I was adamant that I was going to wear them. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:41 | |
And I think, you know, I won. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
So I remember taking up Matthew, | 0:07:46 | 0:07:48 | |
and he was always a child that liked you to stay with him | 0:07:48 | 0:07:51 | |
until he joined the line and went into school. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:54 | |
And I remember saying, "Matthew, Mummy has to go now." | 0:07:54 | 0:08:00 | |
BELL RINGS | 0:08:00 | 0:08:02 | |
CHILDREN CHATTER | 0:08:02 | 0:08:04 | |
HUBBUB | 0:08:06 | 0:08:09 | |
We were skipping around the gym hall. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:47 | |
I don't remember the pain of being shot, | 0:08:49 | 0:08:51 | |
I don't remember the noises, I don't remember sounds. | 0:08:51 | 0:08:54 | |
I just remember my leg turning to jelly and falling to the floor. | 0:08:56 | 0:08:59 | |
And then dragging myself to the gym cupboard | 0:09:01 | 0:09:05 | |
where there was other people. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:07 | |
My mum, she would have been the first person that was killed, | 0:09:11 | 0:09:16 | |
so she didn't see... she wouldn't have seen anything else. | 0:09:16 | 0:09:20 | |
Erm... | 0:09:21 | 0:09:22 | |
I can't, I can't... | 0:09:22 | 0:09:24 | |
It's... I can't begin to think. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:27 | |
After crawling into the gym cupboard, | 0:09:37 | 0:09:39 | |
I was very aware of the amount of blood everywhere, | 0:09:39 | 0:09:43 | |
and the crying and the pain that people were in. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:47 | |
Erm... | 0:09:47 | 0:09:48 | |
Obviously, I was crying for my mum, and was very upset. | 0:09:53 | 0:09:59 | |
And I was trying to, you know... | 0:09:59 | 0:10:01 | |
The adults that were in the PE cupboard | 0:10:01 | 0:10:05 | |
were, you know, trying to hush me | 0:10:05 | 0:10:08 | |
because, you know, they wouldn't have known | 0:10:08 | 0:10:11 | |
if he was still alive out in the gym hall, or where he was going next. | 0:10:11 | 0:10:16 | |
When I first burst into the gym that morning, | 0:10:28 | 0:10:32 | |
the sight was unimaginable. | 0:10:32 | 0:10:35 | |
Hamilton was lying, still twitching. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:42 | |
There was an incredible silence. | 0:10:44 | 0:10:47 | |
The air was thick with smoke, cordite, the smell. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:53 | |
And there was a group of children standing. | 0:10:56 | 0:10:58 | |
The first thing we were able to do was to get them out of there. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:03 | |
And I just couldn't believe what I was seeing. | 0:11:06 | 0:11:09 | |
It was unimaginably horrible... | 0:11:14 | 0:11:16 | |
..to see children dying in front of you. | 0:11:18 | 0:11:21 | |
She had sort of defensive wounds, as you would, through her wrists. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:29 | |
Where her arms were crossed. | 0:11:31 | 0:11:33 | |
She also had an injury that... | 0:11:35 | 0:11:37 | |
the evidence would have been from the pathologist, or whatever, | 0:11:37 | 0:11:44 | |
that suggested she'd been punched. | 0:11:44 | 0:11:47 | |
Erm... | 0:11:47 | 0:11:48 | |
She was shot six times, fatal shot through the eye. | 0:11:53 | 0:11:58 | |
Erm... | 0:11:58 | 0:12:00 | |
Which would have killed her instantly, but the thought that... | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
If somebody... If you're standing in front of somebody with a gun, | 0:12:10 | 0:12:14 | |
and you've been punched, | 0:12:14 | 0:12:16 | |
it would suggest to you that | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
there'd been some sort of a struggle. | 0:12:19 | 0:12:21 | |
I think that day... | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
..she did all she could to protect the children in her care. | 0:12:27 | 0:12:31 | |
Erm... | 0:12:31 | 0:12:33 | |
I think to a lot of the parents, | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
and indeed survivors, she died a hero. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:40 | |
She...tried to protect each and every one of us. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:46 | |
Nobody knows what they would do. | 0:12:46 | 0:12:48 | |
You're in that position, do you run, do you...? | 0:12:49 | 0:12:52 | |
But the evidence would show that that's what she did, so I'm very... | 0:12:53 | 0:12:57 | |
..very, very proud of that. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:03 | |
Seeing the staff tending to the injured, | 0:13:09 | 0:13:13 | |
seeing the... | 0:13:13 | 0:13:15 | |
..the bodies of those who had died. | 0:13:17 | 0:13:19 | |
And I think, just in that moment, the enormity of the event hit me. | 0:13:21 | 0:13:26 | |
That moment has never left. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:30 | |
I'm angry I don't have my sister now. | 0:13:44 | 0:13:47 | |
She liked to be called Jo-Jo. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:52 | |
I remember my mum telling me, | 0:13:52 | 0:13:54 | |
when she went into nursery, she asked them to call her Jo-Jo. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:57 | |
And I now refer to her as Jo, or Joanna, | 0:13:57 | 0:14:01 | |
if someone doesn't know who I'm referring to. | 0:14:01 | 0:14:04 | |
This one's important to me because this reminds me of myself, | 0:14:05 | 0:14:09 | |
because she's very colourful, she's smiling. | 0:14:09 | 0:14:12 | |
I don't like seeing | 0:14:13 | 0:14:14 | |
her in her school uniform. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:16 | |
I'd like to remember her | 0:14:16 | 0:14:18 | |
as a young girl, | 0:14:18 | 0:14:19 | |
as, you know, I should have been | 0:14:19 | 0:14:21 | |
growing up with this girl, | 0:14:21 | 0:14:23 | |
kind of thing. We should have been | 0:14:23 | 0:14:25 | |
kind of laughing in the sun somewhere together. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:28 | |
My first memory of being told was when I was about six or seven, | 0:14:30 | 0:14:35 | |
and I remember Mum kind of sitting down and telling me, you know, | 0:14:35 | 0:14:39 | |
this is what had happened. | 0:14:39 | 0:14:40 | |
Cos for so long I wasn't sure | 0:14:40 | 0:14:42 | |
who all these pictures of this girl were, in my living room, | 0:14:42 | 0:14:45 | |
and I thought it was me, and I used to ask, "Is this me?" | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
And, you know, how come I don't have blonde hair any more and blue eyes? | 0:14:48 | 0:14:53 | |
Then Mum kind of sat down and told me eventually what had happened. | 0:14:53 | 0:14:57 | |
I remember just being really confused about it all. | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
And it looms over us all, I think. | 0:15:02 | 0:15:04 | |
And it... | 0:15:04 | 0:15:05 | |
I don't know. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:07 | |
It gets a bit hard to accept that way, even something... Hold on. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:12 | |
-TEARFULLY: -Something as simple as her brushing my hair for me. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:18 | |
It just isn't there. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:20 | |
It does... It just always makes me wonder what the relationship | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
I could have had and it's just not available now, | 0:15:25 | 0:15:28 | |
it's not there at all. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:30 | |
SIRENS WAIL | 0:15:30 | 0:15:31 | |
'Reports are coming in that one person is dead | 0:15:31 | 0:15:33 | |
'and several people have been injured after a shooting incident | 0:15:33 | 0:15:36 | |
'at Dunblane Primary School in Scotland.' | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
'I remember there was some fuss in the street,' | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
there were lots of mums running towards the school, | 0:15:42 | 0:15:47 | |
and a friend...erm... | 0:15:47 | 0:15:50 | |
shouted across the street to me | 0:15:50 | 0:15:51 | |
that there was a gunman in the primary school. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:54 | |
-RADIO: -'We know there are now a number of fatalities, | 0:15:54 | 0:15:56 | |
'I've just been told, and according to the education...' | 0:15:56 | 0:15:59 | |
Steve had phoned, and I'd said, "All right? Are you OK?" | 0:15:59 | 0:16:03 | |
He said, "Yes, but there's been an incident at the school." | 0:16:03 | 0:16:07 | |
I said, "Right." He said, "There's been a shooting." | 0:16:07 | 0:16:10 | |
-RADIO: -'We'll bring you more as soon as we get it here on 5 Live.' | 0:16:10 | 0:16:14 | |
You obviously hope that either the rumours aren't true | 0:16:14 | 0:16:17 | |
or it's a minor incident that's been exaggerated. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:20 | |
But that proved not to be the case when we got to Dunblane. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:25 | |
'I was in London at the time when it happened.' | 0:16:29 | 0:16:31 | |
I was just in my bedroom drying my hair, | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
hundreds and hundreds of miles away and this thing was occurring. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:37 | |
And not having any inkling at the time of what was ahead, | 0:16:37 | 0:16:42 | |
and that basically, that moment, my life changed forever. | 0:16:42 | 0:16:46 | |
'Police were directing you into the house | 0:16:51 | 0:16:54 | |
'on the left side of the school. | 0:16:54 | 0:16:57 | |
'The main entrance.' | 0:16:57 | 0:16:59 | |
So I remember going to wait in the garden, and not knowing anyone, | 0:17:00 | 0:17:04 | |
being fairly new to Dunblane, | 0:17:04 | 0:17:06 | |
hearing two parents in front of me saying, "It's Mrs Mayor's class." | 0:17:06 | 0:17:12 | |
And I remember saying to them, | 0:17:12 | 0:17:14 | |
"Excuse me, did you say Mrs Mayor's class?" | 0:17:14 | 0:17:17 | |
And them looking at me thinking, "Oh, my." | 0:17:17 | 0:17:22 | |
And she said, "Yes. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:24 | |
"All we know is that Mrs Mayor's class have been asked | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
"to go and wait in the blue house across the way." | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
So then I knew my ratio was down. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:34 | |
Where does my son fit in on that? | 0:17:36 | 0:17:38 | |
I can't say that I was feeling frightened | 0:17:40 | 0:17:44 | |
and overly worried at the time. | 0:17:44 | 0:17:49 | |
Erm... It sounds strange thing to do, | 0:17:49 | 0:17:51 | |
but I'm not the only one who's said that... | 0:17:51 | 0:17:54 | |
people were calculating the odds. | 0:17:54 | 0:17:57 | |
This was a big primary school, school roll of 700. | 0:17:57 | 0:18:01 | |
So the odds against your own child being harmed seemed quite low. | 0:18:01 | 0:18:07 | |
HUBBUB | 0:18:09 | 0:18:12 | |
'The media descended upon us in a way that no-one could anticipate.' | 0:18:14 | 0:18:19 | |
It seemed as if every news channel from all over the world was there, | 0:18:19 | 0:18:24 | |
and it was extraordinarily intrusive. | 0:18:24 | 0:18:26 | |
There's 13 children dead at the moment, | 0:18:39 | 0:18:43 | |
two adults and a number of children in hospital. | 0:18:43 | 0:18:45 | |
We're obviously having a tremendous business | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
sorting out who's who and what's what. | 0:18:48 | 0:18:50 | |
Well, I specifically remember, | 0:18:55 | 0:18:57 | |
I was in Strathclyde Police | 0:18:57 | 0:18:58 | |
press office | 0:18:58 | 0:18:59 | |
and it was shaping up to be | 0:18:59 | 0:19:01 | |
a normal busy day. | 0:19:01 | 0:19:03 | |
Some reports were starting to appear on our bank of televisions | 0:19:03 | 0:19:05 | |
in the office, saying that a shooting incident had occurred. | 0:19:05 | 0:19:09 | |
'And we decided to offer our assistance.' | 0:19:09 | 0:19:11 | |
The drive to Dunblane was, erm... well, it was pretty hairy. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:19 | |
For a start, I was obviously travelling at speed. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:22 | |
At the same time, I was trying to formulate in my mind | 0:19:22 | 0:19:25 | |
what I was going to do when I got there. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:28 | |
What I was going to be confronted with, | 0:19:28 | 0:19:30 | |
and how I was going to manage the flow of information. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:35 | |
'I arrived at the school just about 12:30pm, 12:45pm. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:40 | |
'And it was just a scene of chaos and pandemonium.' | 0:19:40 | 0:19:43 | |
The difference in the school was like night and day. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:50 | |
The school was absolutely silent. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
Everything that you would expect to see in a primary school was present, | 0:20:01 | 0:20:04 | |
except the children. | 0:20:04 | 0:20:06 | |
And there was total silence. | 0:20:06 | 0:20:08 | |
At the behest of the police, we had to go back into the gym, | 0:20:13 | 0:20:16 | |
to try and confirm the identities of the children who had died. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:21 | |
This was particularly difficult for me because | 0:20:21 | 0:20:24 | |
these were Primary 1 children, and I didn't know many of them. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:29 | |
And so, I had to take with me into the gym | 0:20:30 | 0:20:35 | |
previous members of staff who did know them. | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
And we had to begin the awful process of | 0:20:39 | 0:20:42 | |
confirming the identities | 0:20:42 | 0:20:45 | |
of the kids lying there. | 0:20:45 | 0:20:47 | |
They hadn't done a register | 0:20:54 | 0:20:56 | |
because they were going to gym after the assembly. And... | 0:20:56 | 0:20:58 | |
SHE SIGHS | 0:20:58 | 0:21:00 | |
..the person that would have identified them best... | 0:21:00 | 0:21:04 | |
Um... She was gone. | 0:21:07 | 0:21:09 | |
But no amount of security could have prepared for the savagery today. | 0:21:17 | 0:21:21 | |
Savagery that has stunned this town. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
Yeah, we were cocooned. | 0:21:24 | 0:21:25 | |
And I think the media knew more about what was going on than we did. | 0:21:25 | 0:21:29 | |
INDISTINCT VOICES | 0:21:29 | 0:21:31 | |
SIRENS | 0:21:36 | 0:21:37 | |
I am Louis Munn, the press officer for Strathclyde Police. | 0:21:43 | 0:21:45 | |
I'm here to assist... | 0:21:45 | 0:21:47 | |
'It was important that accurate information was given' | 0:21:47 | 0:21:50 | |
to the media as quickly as possible, to stop the speculation | 0:21:50 | 0:21:54 | |
that was ongoing at that time. | 0:21:54 | 0:21:56 | |
As a result of this incident, 16 children have been killed... | 0:21:57 | 0:22:02 | |
SHOCKED GASPS FROM CROWD | 0:22:02 | 0:22:04 | |
..and two adults. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:05 | |
That was something like four-and-a-half hours | 0:22:05 | 0:22:08 | |
into the incident when I made that statement. | 0:22:08 | 0:22:12 | |
CAMERAS CLICK | 0:22:12 | 0:22:13 | |
My understanding is that | 0:22:13 | 0:22:15 | |
15 of the children were killed within the school. | 0:22:15 | 0:22:20 | |
And one has since died in hospital. | 0:22:20 | 0:22:23 | |
'What I didn't know when I released that statement | 0:22:23 | 0:22:26 | |
'was that the parents hadn't been informed.' | 0:22:26 | 0:22:29 | |
Now, that should never have happened. | 0:22:29 | 0:22:32 | |
'It was hours with no news.' | 0:22:32 | 0:22:36 | |
It was just the most incredibly long wait. | 0:22:36 | 0:22:38 | |
And it was like a form of torture. Not a word I use lightly. | 0:22:39 | 0:22:44 | |
It was a form of torture, waiting and just not knowing. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:48 | |
Then, they came and told us they were going to take us to the school. | 0:22:56 | 0:23:02 | |
So, they bussed us down the little driveway, | 0:23:03 | 0:23:07 | |
past all the flashing photographers. | 0:23:07 | 0:23:09 | |
Up the main driveway of the school. | 0:23:11 | 0:23:14 | |
And then we were taken to the staffroom. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
Really, the first time I ever got any real information, | 0:23:23 | 0:23:28 | |
hard information, was at 2:45pm in the afternoon. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:33 | |
And that information included being told that Sophie had died. | 0:23:33 | 0:23:38 | |
The police officer couldn't use the word "death" or "deceased". | 0:23:46 | 0:23:53 | |
He... I think he said "casualty" or "victim". | 0:23:53 | 0:23:57 | |
But I remember remarking on that later, | 0:23:57 | 0:24:00 | |
that he couldn't quite bring himself to say | 0:24:00 | 0:24:02 | |
your child is dead, or deceased. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:05 | |
He couldn't... He couldn't give us the finality of the vocabulary. | 0:24:05 | 0:24:10 | |
But it was clear, the news that he was delivering. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:14 | |
Um... | 0:24:14 | 0:24:16 | |
It came as a relief. | 0:24:18 | 0:24:20 | |
It came as | 0:24:20 | 0:24:23 | |
a significant relief, because knowing is better than not knowing. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:28 | |
That is the one thing that I can remember | 0:24:28 | 0:24:30 | |
really, really clearly about that day. I needed to know. | 0:24:30 | 0:24:34 | |
I just needed to know where she was and what she was. | 0:24:34 | 0:24:40 | |
And when they told me she was dead, and she was at the hospital, | 0:24:40 | 0:24:46 | |
it felt that I could begin to come to terms with what had happened. | 0:24:46 | 0:24:50 | |
It's sort of a surreal thing that I think happened in slow motion... | 0:24:57 | 0:25:00 | |
The chances were getting higher and higher | 0:25:02 | 0:25:04 | |
but you're still, in your head, thinking, no, no, no, | 0:25:04 | 0:25:07 | |
it will not be my mum. | 0:25:07 | 0:25:10 | |
But my dad said he knew. | 0:25:10 | 0:25:12 | |
He just knew straightaway. | 0:25:13 | 0:25:15 | |
He got to the school and said who he was, | 0:25:15 | 0:25:18 | |
and he was ushered in straightaway, no questions asked. | 0:25:18 | 0:25:21 | |
It was, "In you come, Mr Mayor." | 0:25:21 | 0:25:23 | |
And put in the library where he was... | 0:25:23 | 0:25:25 | |
He waited, I believe, until about three o'clock till he was told | 0:25:25 | 0:25:28 | |
that she was a teacher that was killed. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:32 | |
I don't remember the pain of being shot, | 0:25:54 | 0:25:56 | |
I don't remember the noises, I don't remember sounds. | 0:25:56 | 0:25:59 | |
The next memory I have is being in the hospital | 0:26:00 | 0:26:02 | |
and having my clothes cut off. | 0:26:02 | 0:26:04 | |
I'm a mummy's girl and I would have been shouting on my mummy. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:10 | |
And even when my mum did arrive to console me, | 0:26:10 | 0:26:13 | |
she said that I was still shouting for her, | 0:26:13 | 0:26:16 | |
I just had no comprehension of what was going on at all. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:19 | |
I just couldn't be consoled at all. | 0:26:19 | 0:26:23 | |
As a group of parents, some went to the children's ward. | 0:26:23 | 0:26:26 | |
And then the surgeon who operated on Matthew | 0:26:26 | 0:26:29 | |
came into the waiting room in intensive care. | 0:26:29 | 0:26:32 | |
The first things he said to us was, "You're Bev. And you're Steve. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:38 | |
"And Matthew has a little sister, | 0:26:38 | 0:26:39 | |
"and his favourite food is baked beans." | 0:26:39 | 0:26:41 | |
And, to be honest, that's the first thing he could have said to us | 0:26:41 | 0:26:45 | |
because we knew he hadn't been shot, | 0:26:45 | 0:26:47 | |
he hadn't been shot so seriously that... | 0:26:47 | 0:26:50 | |
-He couldn't talk. -..he couldn't talk. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:52 | |
The surgeon had told us when he came in that, where Matt had been shot... | 0:26:54 | 0:26:58 | |
Shot twice. | 0:26:58 | 0:26:59 | |
Once through the shoulder, straight through and through, flesh wound. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:02 | |
If you imagine the size of a small child, | 0:27:02 | 0:27:04 | |
there's not a lot of space between the two bones | 0:27:04 | 0:27:07 | |
that make up the shoulder blade. | 0:27:07 | 0:27:08 | |
And, somehow, it had managed to go through | 0:27:08 | 0:27:10 | |
between a very small space in the bones of his shoulder blade. | 0:27:10 | 0:27:13 | |
So it had actually missed again, hadn't hit the bone, | 0:27:13 | 0:27:16 | |
just gone through the flesh there. And then... | 0:27:16 | 0:27:19 | |
-he'd been shot in the chest. -He'd been shot in the back. | 0:27:19 | 0:27:22 | |
Shot in the back. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:24 | |
And, with the one in the back, | 0:27:24 | 0:27:27 | |
it had actually gone through his back, but it had hit the rib, | 0:27:27 | 0:27:30 | |
and then the rib had actually deflected it, | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
so it came out the other side of his back. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:36 | |
And if it hadn't deflected the bullet, | 0:27:36 | 0:27:38 | |
it would have gone straight through his heart. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:40 | |
The children fall into two categories. | 0:27:46 | 0:27:49 | |
They were dead in the gym where they fell, | 0:27:49 | 0:27:52 | |
or they were evacuated from the gym. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:57 | |
And although some of them were very badly hurt, they survived. | 0:27:57 | 0:28:01 | |
Mhairi was the only one who was evacuated from the gym | 0:28:01 | 0:28:03 | |
who did not survive. | 0:28:03 | 0:28:05 | |
'I wasn't with her when she died. | 0:28:07 | 0:28:09 | |
'That's the thing that I regret most. | 0:28:11 | 0:28:14 | |
'That is the regret, the one regret I have.' | 0:28:14 | 0:28:16 | |
MHAIRI CHATTERS | 0:28:16 | 0:28:18 | |
I'd like her mother to have been with her when she died. | 0:28:18 | 0:28:21 | |
I'd like her to have had her mum. | 0:28:21 | 0:28:23 | |
'That's an absolute betrayal. I think that was desperately wrong.' | 0:28:25 | 0:28:31 | |
I feel very angry about that. | 0:28:34 | 0:28:36 | |
I don't have any memories of Mhairi at all, | 0:28:41 | 0:28:43 | |
because I was only three months old when she was killed. | 0:28:43 | 0:28:47 | |
I do wish that I had had a sister. | 0:28:47 | 0:28:51 | |
Um... It's just odd. | 0:28:51 | 0:28:54 | |
I don't think I came to terms with it for a very long time, | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
because I couldn't imagine having a sister, | 0:28:58 | 0:29:01 | |
because I was so used to being raised as an only child. | 0:29:01 | 0:29:04 | |
It's a very odd feeling | 0:29:04 | 0:29:07 | |
that is almost impossible to describe, I suppose. | 0:29:07 | 0:29:12 | |
I still have the kind of grieving and mourning, | 0:29:12 | 0:29:15 | |
but without knowing her per se. | 0:29:15 | 0:29:19 | |
I've lost something, but not experienced what I've lost, | 0:29:21 | 0:29:24 | |
I suppose. | 0:29:24 | 0:29:25 | |
TV NEWS JINGLE | 0:29:34 | 0:29:36 | |
16 young children and their teacher have been shot dead by a gunman | 0:29:36 | 0:29:40 | |
at a primary school near Stirling. | 0:29:40 | 0:29:42 | |
The Chief Constable of Central Scotland said | 0:29:42 | 0:29:45 | |
the killer had four handguns. | 0:29:45 | 0:29:46 | |
He's been named tonight as | 0:29:46 | 0:29:48 | |
43-year-old Thomas Hamilton, a local man. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:51 | |
-TV: -Police photos of the inside of Thomas Hamilton's house | 0:29:53 | 0:29:55 | |
have been released, showing the customised targets he used | 0:29:55 | 0:29:59 | |
to practise his shooting. | 0:29:59 | 0:30:00 | |
Detectives searching his home found thousands of rounds of ammunition, | 0:30:03 | 0:30:06 | |
the telephone book was still lying open | 0:30:06 | 0:30:08 | |
at the entry for Dunblane Primary School. | 0:30:08 | 0:30:11 | |
-Thomas Hamilton used two types of bull, er, bullets... -Bullets, yeah. | 0:30:17 | 0:30:21 | |
..of which the one that came out the back was sort of one of those that | 0:30:21 | 0:30:25 | |
they reckon probably was exploding, because it was, er... | 0:30:25 | 0:30:28 | |
-BOTH: ..quite a nasty exit wound. -Yeah, it was. | 0:30:28 | 0:30:31 | |
He was dressed in combat fatigues. | 0:30:31 | 0:30:33 | |
He had goggles, firearms goggles on, and he had ear defenders on. | 0:30:33 | 0:30:39 | |
He entered the school, walked down the corridor towards | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
the sound of children's voices coming from the gymnasium. | 0:30:42 | 0:30:47 | |
He entered the gymnasium and he systematically discharged | 0:30:47 | 0:30:52 | |
his weapons at the teacher and the children gathered there. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:57 | |
He shot 105 bullets. | 0:31:01 | 0:31:04 | |
He had the capability, um, with the amount of ammunition, | 0:31:06 | 0:31:11 | |
to have actually shot every single child in that school at least once. | 0:31:11 | 0:31:18 | |
Within the three minutes, | 0:31:21 | 0:31:23 | |
he not only shot at the children in the gym, but he went out of the gym | 0:31:23 | 0:31:28 | |
and fired shots at two other classes and at someone who was passing by. | 0:31:28 | 0:31:34 | |
And he then went back into the gym... | 0:31:36 | 0:31:38 | |
..apparently walked round, shot again at one or two of the children, | 0:31:41 | 0:31:45 | |
and then finally killed himself. | 0:31:45 | 0:31:49 | |
In some ways, it's a miracle that anyone survived in that gym. | 0:31:49 | 0:31:54 | |
And Matthew had said, "I remember, Mummy," he said that, um, | 0:31:55 | 0:32:01 | |
"everyone was screaming," um, that he watched people fall to the gym... | 0:32:01 | 0:32:09 | |
-Mm-hm. -..and he lay on the gym, on the floor, and he... | 0:32:09 | 0:32:13 | |
he was crying and the man went away and, um, and he says he was crying | 0:32:13 | 0:32:18 | |
and then, the man came back and he shot | 0:32:18 | 0:32:22 | |
and I think then he realised that he had to be really, really still... | 0:32:22 | 0:32:25 | |
-And be quiet. -..and pretend to be dead... | 0:32:25 | 0:32:28 | |
-Mm-hm. -..otherwise, um, he knew he'd shoot him again. | 0:32:28 | 0:32:31 | |
Yeah, so he just said he just stayed very, very still and very quiet, | 0:32:31 | 0:32:35 | |
cos then he'd think he was dead. | 0:32:35 | 0:32:37 | |
'I vividly remember, um, the...' | 0:32:47 | 0:32:51 | |
the press conference we held just around 10 o'clock that night, | 0:32:51 | 0:32:54 | |
when I read out the names of the... of the children involved. | 0:32:54 | 0:32:58 | |
The children who died are as follows. | 0:32:59 | 0:33:02 | |
Victoria Clydesdale, aged five. | 0:33:03 | 0:33:06 | |
Emma Crozier, aged five. | 0:33:06 | 0:33:10 | |
Melissa Currie, aged five. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:13 | |
Charlotte Dunn, aged five. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:16 | |
Kevin Hasell, aged five. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:20 | |
Ross Irvine, aged five. | 0:33:20 | 0:33:23 | |
David Kerr, aged five. | 0:33:23 | 0:33:27 | |
Mhairi McBeath, aged five. | 0:33:27 | 0:33:30 | |
Brett McKinnon, aged five. | 0:33:31 | 0:33:34 | |
Abigail McLennan, aged five. | 0:33:34 | 0:33:38 | |
Emily Morton, aged five. | 0:33:38 | 0:33:42 | |
Sophie North, aged five. | 0:33:42 | 0:33:45 | |
John Petrie, aged five. | 0:33:45 | 0:33:49 | |
Joanna Ross, aged five. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:52 | |
Hannah Scott, aged five. | 0:33:52 | 0:33:56 | |
Megan Turner, aged five. | 0:33:56 | 0:33:59 | |
And the teacher, Gwen Mayor, aged 45. | 0:33:59 | 0:34:04 | |
I had really bad night terrors that, um, | 0:34:13 | 0:34:17 | |
kept me up during the night and I was just inconsolable. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:21 | |
My mum speaks of having to, like, hold me in the night | 0:34:21 | 0:34:26 | |
and I'd wake up, not just once or twice, | 0:34:26 | 0:34:29 | |
like, four or five times, screaming, crying. | 0:34:29 | 0:34:33 | |
Matthew was sort of, like, hooked up to loads of drips and drains | 0:34:33 | 0:34:38 | |
and machines and all I did was just stroke his hand all night | 0:34:38 | 0:34:42 | |
and, um, and it was... Funny enough, one of the members of staff | 0:34:42 | 0:34:46 | |
came through and she said, "It's just like you've..." | 0:34:46 | 0:34:49 | |
With... She said, "It looks like, it's where you feel, | 0:34:49 | 0:34:53 | |
"when you've just given birth, and you've got that little | 0:34:53 | 0:34:56 | |
"bundle of joy in your arms, and you just can't take your eyes off him." | 0:34:56 | 0:35:01 | |
And that's how it felt. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:03 | |
Um, just having his little hand, um, holding his hand | 0:35:03 | 0:35:06 | |
and just to think, "I am just so lucky. I've got my boy." | 0:35:06 | 0:35:10 | |
HELICOPTER ROTORS WHIR | 0:35:18 | 0:35:20 | |
'The following day... | 0:35:28 | 0:35:30 | |
'I had to go to Dunblane and took part in the...' | 0:35:30 | 0:35:35 | |
in this interview, which came as somewhat of a surprise, | 0:35:35 | 0:35:38 | |
I wasn't expecting to have to do that. | 0:35:38 | 0:35:41 | |
Ladies and gentlemen, can I introduce you to Mr Ron Taylor, | 0:35:41 | 0:35:44 | |
the headteacher for Dunblane Primary School. | 0:35:44 | 0:35:48 | |
Um, I think Mr Taylor would like to just make a...a comment. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:54 | |
My thoughts, and the thoughts of all my staff, | 0:35:56 | 0:36:00 | |
are obviously with the families, all the families whose lives | 0:36:00 | 0:36:05 | |
have been devastated by the appalling tragedy. | 0:36:05 | 0:36:08 | |
Evil visited us yesterday and we don't know why, | 0:36:10 | 0:36:15 | |
we don't understand it, and I guess we never will. | 0:36:15 | 0:36:19 | |
'I thought Ron Taylor was a marvellous man. | 0:36:19 | 0:36:22 | |
'Some of the words he said were quite unforgettable.' | 0:36:22 | 0:36:26 | |
These were all his children, these were all his pupils, | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
and...and...and he lost 16 of them, 16 of them in the most horrific way. | 0:36:29 | 0:36:35 | |
I can't get the images out of my head yet, | 0:36:35 | 0:36:39 | |
and I think that will take some time. It was an appalling mess. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:42 | |
-REPORTER: -Were you able to do anything? -We... | 0:36:42 | 0:36:45 | |
We did what we could. We tried. We, um... | 0:36:45 | 0:36:49 | |
People couldn't understand why I felt so guilty after the event... | 0:36:49 | 0:36:56 | |
..because there is no way any of us | 0:36:58 | 0:37:01 | |
could have anticipated what happened. | 0:37:01 | 0:37:04 | |
There's no way we could've adequately prepared | 0:37:04 | 0:37:08 | |
for what happened, and yet, I felt enormous guilt. | 0:37:08 | 0:37:13 | |
More than just a survivor's guilt. | 0:37:13 | 0:37:16 | |
It was my school. | 0:37:17 | 0:37:19 | |
I felt violated. I felt... I should've been able to do more. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:25 | |
And that guilt... lives with me today. | 0:37:26 | 0:37:30 | |
The things that struck me most was the outpouring of grief. | 0:37:37 | 0:37:41 | |
Lots and lots of people actually came to Dunblane simply just | 0:37:41 | 0:37:44 | |
to pay their respects. | 0:37:44 | 0:37:46 | |
Thousands of tributes that arrived in Dunblane in the shape | 0:37:48 | 0:37:51 | |
of letters, flowers, cuddly toys. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:55 | |
What you realise is that, when something like this happens, | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
the, um, the number of people who are affected by it. | 0:37:58 | 0:38:02 | |
Um, you see the sort of, the immediate people, the family | 0:38:02 | 0:38:05 | |
that are involved, but you forget how far the ripples of the pond go. | 0:38:05 | 0:38:10 | |
The flowers all the way along the street was a wonderful way | 0:38:12 | 0:38:18 | |
of the country showing their support and their love. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:22 | |
But it was also a reminder to us every day | 0:38:22 | 0:38:25 | |
as we had to drive past the flowers. | 0:38:25 | 0:38:28 | |
The last time I saw Sophie before her funeral service, | 0:38:41 | 0:38:48 | |
she'd been dressed in a Lion King outfit that I'd bought for her. | 0:38:48 | 0:38:53 | |
She had always liked The Lion king, even though | 0:38:54 | 0:38:57 | |
she'd been too frightened to actually watch the movie itself. | 0:38:57 | 0:39:01 | |
And I also put with her... her sooky... | 0:39:03 | 0:39:10 | |
which was the last remaining, um, half of a set of... | 0:39:10 | 0:39:16 | |
two sets of pyjamas that belonged to Barbara, | 0:39:16 | 0:39:20 | |
which she had, um, sucked on... | 0:39:20 | 0:39:23 | |
..for years. I tried to persuade her off them, but it had never happened | 0:39:25 | 0:39:30 | |
and so, again, it was appropriate that they were with her. | 0:39:30 | 0:39:34 | |
-RON TAYLOR: -The pressures after the event were, were enormous | 0:39:46 | 0:39:50 | |
and they were unrelenting. | 0:39:50 | 0:39:51 | |
We had politicians coming, we had the Royals who came. | 0:39:51 | 0:39:54 | |
And it was enormously stressful, having to cope with that, | 0:39:56 | 0:39:59 | |
with the outside pressure that it brought, | 0:39:59 | 0:40:02 | |
with the pressure of helping to organise the visits, | 0:40:02 | 0:40:05 | |
but it was entirely understandable why they came. | 0:40:05 | 0:40:08 | |
They represented the country's support and concern for us. | 0:40:08 | 0:40:13 | |
NEWSREADER: From there, it was up to Ward 17, | 0:40:13 | 0:40:15 | |
to see and talk to the five youngsters | 0:40:15 | 0:40:18 | |
and their two teachers who are being treated at the hospital. | 0:40:18 | 0:40:21 | |
I was in there for six weeks or something and, you know, | 0:40:21 | 0:40:25 | |
we were totally overwhelmed by the generosity, | 0:40:25 | 0:40:28 | |
the public sending things or whatever. | 0:40:28 | 0:40:31 | |
The photos of, um, me with the Queen at the bottom of my bed... | 0:40:36 | 0:40:41 | |
I had absolutely no interest in the Queen. | 0:40:41 | 0:40:43 | |
I was sitting with my Playdays magazine, just wanting to look at | 0:40:43 | 0:40:46 | |
the pictures in my magazine, rather than the Queen at the end of my bed. | 0:40:46 | 0:40:50 | |
BUZZ OF CONVERSATION | 0:40:50 | 0:40:52 | |
Matthew, as he came out of intensive care, um, was very quiet, | 0:40:56 | 0:41:01 | |
he didn't really talk very much, um, | 0:41:01 | 0:41:04 | |
he obviously took in a lot of things. | 0:41:04 | 0:41:06 | |
'It was hard, I mean, cos you had to sort of sit there and just listen | 0:41:09 | 0:41:13 | |
-'to what he had to say, er... -Not become too emotional.' | 0:41:13 | 0:41:15 | |
And try not to sort of... | 0:41:15 | 0:41:17 | |
-If we got emotional, then he would get upset... -He wouldn't say... | 0:41:17 | 0:41:20 | |
..then he wouldn't want to upset Mummy and Daddy, so he wouldn't say. | 0:41:20 | 0:41:23 | |
-So... -So you were trying your best just to, just to let him talk. | 0:41:23 | 0:41:27 | |
Ready or not, here I come! | 0:41:27 | 0:41:29 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:41:30 | 0:41:31 | |
But you did get a huge guilt, er, about the fact that | 0:41:33 | 0:41:36 | |
you still had your, your son and others had lost theirs. | 0:41:36 | 0:41:39 | |
But it's when you, you meet those parents and, um, | 0:41:41 | 0:41:45 | |
and you realise that, that... how much we were grieving | 0:41:45 | 0:41:51 | |
for what had happened to Matthew, um, and that hurt, that pain was | 0:41:51 | 0:41:56 | |
so, so awful, to imagine what they were going through | 0:41:56 | 0:42:01 | |
was just something that must be so devastating. | 0:42:01 | 0:42:05 | |
NEWSREADER: As Dunblane Primary opened its doors | 0:42:10 | 0:42:12 | |
for the first time since the shootings, most children were | 0:42:12 | 0:42:15 | |
escorted back by one or both parents. Many of them... | 0:42:15 | 0:42:18 | |
-RON TAYLOR: -We opened the school very quickly after the event. | 0:42:18 | 0:42:23 | |
But it seemed only logical. | 0:42:23 | 0:42:26 | |
What were the children doing at home, | 0:42:26 | 0:42:29 | |
with all the stresses and strains and media presence in the village? | 0:42:29 | 0:42:33 | |
It was better that we reopened the school as quickly as possible | 0:42:34 | 0:42:39 | |
and that they returned to a form of normality. | 0:42:39 | 0:42:42 | |
This has been a... a long, dark week, full of tears. | 0:42:42 | 0:42:48 | |
Dunblane is still in mourning. | 0:42:50 | 0:42:52 | |
However... | 0:42:54 | 0:42:55 | |
..the evil that came last week is gone. | 0:42:57 | 0:43:00 | |
The children returned to school today. | 0:43:01 | 0:43:04 | |
And this is a, a very important day for us, | 0:43:05 | 0:43:08 | |
because today marks the beginning of our recovery. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:12 | |
As a headteacher, what happened to me that day | 0:43:12 | 0:43:17 | |
was the worst experience any headteacher could have. | 0:43:17 | 0:43:21 | |
And of course, it was the worst experience for any parent, too. | 0:43:21 | 0:43:25 | |
And for the parents of the other children... | 0:43:27 | 0:43:30 | |
they were hugely emotional. | 0:43:30 | 0:43:32 | |
But it was very wonderful... | 0:43:34 | 0:43:36 | |
..that almost all the children returned on that day. | 0:43:37 | 0:43:42 | |
Having been shot in the leg, and my kneecap was shattered, um, | 0:43:42 | 0:43:47 | |
my leg had to be in traction, | 0:43:47 | 0:43:49 | |
which means it had to be up in the air, um, for... | 0:43:49 | 0:43:53 | |
to be set again, really, um... | 0:43:53 | 0:43:56 | |
so I spent a lot of time, you know, I couldn't go out in the wheelchair | 0:43:56 | 0:44:00 | |
or anything, I was stuck to the bed for six weeks, um... | 0:44:00 | 0:44:03 | |
..and I had, you know, I had... | 0:44:05 | 0:44:07 | |
That resulted in me being the last one to leave the hospital. | 0:44:07 | 0:44:10 | |
Hairbrush. | 0:44:12 | 0:44:13 | |
'After the shootings and the police had collected all the belongings | 0:44:17 | 0:44:21 | |
'and they'd had them for...' | 0:44:21 | 0:44:23 | |
it must've been some time, | 0:44:23 | 0:44:25 | |
and my mum was given all my stuff back one day | 0:44:25 | 0:44:27 | |
'and there was this, you know, god-awful smell | 0:44:27 | 0:44:30 | |
'and she couldn't figure out what it was.' | 0:44:30 | 0:44:33 | |
There was just a big, mouldy banana in my school bag that was... | 0:44:35 | 0:44:40 | |
There was a very unpleasant smell coming from it. | 0:44:40 | 0:44:44 | |
MOTHER CHATS SOFTLY | 0:44:44 | 0:44:46 | |
SEAGULLS CALL | 0:45:03 | 0:45:05 | |
BIRDS TWEET | 0:45:11 | 0:45:14 | |
-We've been married for a long time. -Yeah, um... | 0:45:17 | 0:45:20 | |
-Too long? -Far too long! -Yeah, 16? -16 years. Together 17. | 0:45:20 | 0:45:25 | |
-Um, married 16. -16. -Yeah. | 0:45:25 | 0:45:27 | |
-It's our kind of escape. -Yeah, it has been, | 0:45:36 | 0:45:39 | |
-and it's been our kind of bolthole for about a decade now. -Yeah. | 0:45:39 | 0:45:44 | |
Maybe this is the place where we feel closest together, | 0:45:44 | 0:45:47 | |
but it's also the place where I feel safest. | 0:45:47 | 0:45:50 | |
'I try to be very consistent. I try to be a focal point that,' | 0:45:52 | 0:45:58 | |
if things are not going well for Isabel, she can rely on me to, um... | 0:45:58 | 0:46:05 | |
er... be a constant for us. | 0:46:05 | 0:46:08 | |
I think the baggage is always there | 0:46:08 | 0:46:11 | |
-and I think that's a problem at times. -Mm-hm. | 0:46:11 | 0:46:14 | |
I don't think it is possible, after Dunblane, | 0:46:14 | 0:46:17 | |
-to have a life that is completely normal. -No. | 0:46:17 | 0:46:21 | |
It's lovely, soft wool | 0:46:24 | 0:46:26 | |
and I do remember her wearing that and it was just... | 0:46:26 | 0:46:29 | |
It was just a lovely little... | 0:46:30 | 0:46:32 | |
..a lovely little cardigan. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:36 | |
It's the only drawing I have that Mhairi did of her sister. | 0:46:36 | 0:46:40 | |
Look, this is Catherine, | 0:46:42 | 0:46:44 | |
with a big, happy smile on her face | 0:46:44 | 0:46:47 | |
and with a fresh nappy on, clearly. | 0:46:47 | 0:46:49 | |
This is a bit special. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:52 | |
She had ladybird scissors and this is her ladybird bracelet. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:58 | |
We used to go ladybird spotting... | 0:46:58 | 0:47:00 | |
..erm, in the garden at home and if we caught a ladybird, | 0:47:01 | 0:47:06 | |
Mhairi would always want it to crawl over her hands. | 0:47:06 | 0:47:08 | |
This is Mhairi's death certificate. | 0:47:08 | 0:47:10 | |
I have thought a lot about, | 0:47:14 | 0:47:17 | |
"It could have been me there, not her." | 0:47:17 | 0:47:20 | |
Erm... | 0:47:20 | 0:47:21 | |
I know it's not my fault. | 0:47:22 | 0:47:24 | |
Erm... | 0:47:24 | 0:47:25 | |
It's not my fault that someone decided to kill my sister, | 0:47:26 | 0:47:29 | |
but I do, a bit, feel... | 0:47:29 | 0:47:32 | |
a bit guilty that I'm the one that survived and not her. | 0:47:32 | 0:47:37 | |
Erm... | 0:47:37 | 0:47:38 | |
I don't think that's an entirely rational feeling. | 0:47:38 | 0:47:42 | |
I recognise myself that that is... | 0:47:42 | 0:47:44 | |
It's not a rational feeling, it's something that you just feel | 0:47:44 | 0:47:47 | |
when this kind of thing has happened to you. | 0:47:47 | 0:47:50 | |
Catherine, erm... | 0:47:50 | 0:47:53 | |
has obviously outlived Mhairi and there's been certain milestones, | 0:47:53 | 0:47:58 | |
certain points in Catherine's life that's been very upsetting for us, | 0:47:58 | 0:48:04 | |
because Mhairi never did this, Mhairi never got that, | 0:48:04 | 0:48:08 | |
Mhairi never got a chance for this. | 0:48:08 | 0:48:10 | |
And in my head, it's hard to think of Catherine as the little sister, | 0:48:10 | 0:48:15 | |
because Catherine is now the big sister | 0:48:15 | 0:48:17 | |
because she's lived so much longer. | 0:48:17 | 0:48:19 | |
I have one final poem. | 0:48:19 | 0:48:22 | |
Give a huge, Loud crowd applause | 0:48:22 | 0:48:26 | |
for Catherine Wilson. | 0:48:26 | 0:48:27 | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE | 0:48:27 | 0:48:29 | |
These are the facts I know about my sister | 0:48:36 | 0:48:38 | |
She's an artist, an architect, a scientist and a gospel singer | 0:48:38 | 0:48:42 | |
She's training to be a vet | 0:48:42 | 0:48:44 | |
A childhood dream that she has loved as long as | 0:48:44 | 0:48:47 | |
Ice cream and she got the science-y side of my father | 0:48:47 | 0:48:50 | |
When I got the philosophy, she loves astrology | 0:48:50 | 0:48:53 | |
And if I'm sick or sad or hate the world, she climbs into my bed | 0:48:53 | 0:48:57 | |
Plaits my hair with affection and I love her | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
She's my sister and I love her and I love her | 0:48:59 | 0:49:01 | |
And she's my sister and my sister and I love her and I love her | 0:49:01 | 0:49:04 | |
And she is my sister and I love her | 0:49:04 | 0:49:06 | |
Or maybe I don't... | 0:49:08 | 0:49:10 | |
'I can sit here and say my sister was' | 0:49:10 | 0:49:11 | |
going to be a vet or she was going to be, I don't know, a rock star, | 0:49:11 | 0:49:15 | |
she was going to be famous | 0:49:15 | 0:49:17 | |
or she was going to be, you know, the next... | 0:49:17 | 0:49:20 | |
um, I don't know, | 0:49:20 | 0:49:22 | |
she was going to run a charity or something like that, | 0:49:22 | 0:49:24 | |
but that might not be true, she might have completely... | 0:49:24 | 0:49:28 | |
We might have completely fallen out, we might not get on, | 0:49:28 | 0:49:31 | |
so I kind of wanted to capture that. | 0:49:31 | 0:49:33 | |
I don't know these facts about my sister | 0:49:33 | 0:49:35 | |
They are nothing more than the fruits of my contemplation | 0:49:35 | 0:49:38 | |
A big "What if?" that keeps me up at night | 0:49:38 | 0:49:40 | |
And I'm forever sorry that I can't say I'm an only child by choice | 0:49:40 | 0:49:43 | |
With me comes the background baggage of a crime scene | 0:49:43 | 0:49:45 | |
That put me on the map | 0:49:45 | 0:49:46 | |
And I never want to say it, I'm too afraid to say it | 0:49:46 | 0:49:49 | |
Dunblane. | 0:49:49 | 0:49:50 | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE | 0:49:51 | 0:49:53 | |
REPORTER: The Dunblane parents believe | 0:49:58 | 0:50:00 | |
that while the police might have made mistakes, | 0:50:00 | 0:50:02 | |
it is, they say, our whole attitude towards guns which needs changing. | 0:50:02 | 0:50:06 | |
I was certainly of the opinion, | 0:50:09 | 0:50:10 | |
and that appeared to be one that was shared between all the families, | 0:50:10 | 0:50:14 | |
that we wanted to do something positive, | 0:50:14 | 0:50:16 | |
we wanted to change the gun laws | 0:50:16 | 0:50:18 | |
and there was no way that that would happen | 0:50:18 | 0:50:20 | |
if we just stood in the background. | 0:50:20 | 0:50:23 | |
And through campaigning, often exhausting campaigning, | 0:50:25 | 0:50:30 | |
in the face of very strenuous and nasty opposition at times, | 0:50:30 | 0:50:36 | |
we were delighted to be able to persuade governments, | 0:50:36 | 0:50:42 | |
both Conservative and Labour, | 0:50:42 | 0:50:45 | |
to introduce legislation which Parliament passed, | 0:50:45 | 0:50:49 | |
which did result in the banning of handguns by 1998, | 0:50:49 | 0:50:53 | |
just two years after the Dunblane Massacre. | 0:50:53 | 0:50:57 | |
I feel my generation probably... | 0:51:07 | 0:51:11 | |
..like the older generation, just can't fathom how... | 0:51:12 | 0:51:18 | |
just awful it all was and how awful it all is | 0:51:18 | 0:51:21 | |
and how it's still affecting us all today. | 0:51:21 | 0:51:24 | |
And then, following that comes... | 0:51:28 | 0:51:30 | |
I'm angry I don't have my sister now. | 0:51:30 | 0:51:34 | |
I feel like she was taken. | 0:51:35 | 0:51:37 | |
And it's all very selfish. | 0:51:39 | 0:51:40 | |
This man didn't consider, actually, | 0:51:40 | 0:51:43 | |
"I'm leaving parents without children | 0:51:43 | 0:51:46 | |
"and siblings without siblings." | 0:51:46 | 0:51:48 | |
When I say it's not how I want to remember my mum, | 0:51:50 | 0:51:53 | |
I find it quite a morbid picture, to be honest. It's sort of... | 0:51:53 | 0:51:55 | |
It is a snapshot of that day. | 0:51:55 | 0:51:57 | |
It's like a picture of him... | 0:51:59 | 0:52:01 | |
and that picture, that's a sort of chilling thing for me. | 0:52:01 | 0:52:05 | |
I find it quite a chilling picture. | 0:52:05 | 0:52:07 | |
It's just typical of my mum, you know. | 0:52:10 | 0:52:12 | |
She's out hill walking and she's got all her make-up on | 0:52:12 | 0:52:15 | |
and her hair is all lovely and she's got earrings on | 0:52:15 | 0:52:18 | |
and she's got her lippy on. | 0:52:18 | 0:52:20 | |
And she's... | 0:52:20 | 0:52:21 | |
She's smiling and her eyes are happy. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:23 | |
I still have these gloves. | 0:52:25 | 0:52:27 | |
That's exactly how I remember her. | 0:52:30 | 0:52:32 | |
Time... is a strange thing. | 0:52:36 | 0:52:39 | |
And I think it's become even more strange since Sophie was killed. | 0:52:41 | 0:52:45 | |
Some of the memories are so strong that they can seem like yesterday, | 0:52:47 | 0:52:51 | |
they can seem like last week. | 0:52:51 | 0:52:53 | |
This is... | 0:53:00 | 0:53:02 | |
This is so important. | 0:53:02 | 0:53:04 | |
This one, on the first anniversary, | 0:53:06 | 0:53:09 | |
is from Princess Diana. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:11 | |
"As a mother myself, | 0:53:12 | 0:53:13 | |
"my enormous admiration for you all grows stronger. | 0:53:13 | 0:53:17 | |
"Your dearly loved children will always be greatly missed, | 0:53:17 | 0:53:20 | |
"especially today, as we remember. | 0:53:20 | 0:53:22 | |
"My thoughts and prayers are with you. | 0:53:23 | 0:53:26 | |
"With love from Diana." | 0:53:26 | 0:53:27 | |
After Sophie died, I can honestly say there was never a time | 0:53:33 | 0:53:37 | |
when I thought, "No, I can't go on." | 0:53:37 | 0:53:40 | |
There were times when I knew it was going to be difficult to go on. | 0:53:40 | 0:53:44 | |
There were times when I was depressed. | 0:53:44 | 0:53:49 | |
But I never, ever felt, "No, there's no point in keeping going." | 0:53:49 | 0:53:55 | |
Of course, it's... | 0:53:56 | 0:53:57 | |
..horrible, when the two people you're closest to have died. | 0:53:59 | 0:54:05 | |
But neither of them would have wanted me to give up | 0:54:08 | 0:54:12 | |
on what life still had to offer | 0:54:12 | 0:54:15 | |
and what I could offer to life. | 0:54:15 | 0:54:18 | |
People have to cope in their own way. | 0:54:24 | 0:54:26 | |
One of the things I have at home is I have a box... | 0:54:27 | 0:54:30 | |
..full of... | 0:54:31 | 0:54:32 | |
..newspaper articles, statements, cuttings, | 0:54:34 | 0:54:37 | |
and it includes my own written version of the events of the day, | 0:54:37 | 0:54:41 | |
and I did that to help. I locked it away | 0:54:41 | 0:54:47 | |
and thankfully, I have never looked at it again. | 0:54:47 | 0:54:49 | |
And it's quite easy to keep that box locked. | 0:54:51 | 0:54:54 | |
It's much more difficult to keep the box in my head locked. | 0:54:54 | 0:54:58 | |
Matthew got to grow, got to go to high school, | 0:55:08 | 0:55:12 | |
got to his 18th birthday, got to his 21st birthday, | 0:55:12 | 0:55:16 | |
we watched him grow and develop from a young child | 0:55:16 | 0:55:21 | |
to just a warm, loving young man. | 0:55:21 | 0:55:24 | |
That's one thing that's very important to Matt, | 0:55:36 | 0:55:39 | |
is the fact that he wants to be defined by what he does in life, | 0:55:39 | 0:55:43 | |
not by what happened to him. | 0:55:43 | 0:55:45 | |
And that's a good thing. | 0:55:45 | 0:55:46 | |
It just upsets me that it makes Isabel sad and emotional | 0:55:52 | 0:55:57 | |
and it's something I can't fix. | 0:55:57 | 0:55:59 | |
It's something I can't make better. | 0:56:01 | 0:56:03 | |
Something I can't bring back. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:05 | |
I don't want you to be upset. | 0:56:18 | 0:56:20 | |
-You're going to cry. I don't want you to be upset. -Sh! | 0:56:22 | 0:56:24 | |
-Talking like that will make me cry! -THEY LAUGH | 0:56:24 | 0:56:27 | |
-I'm really sorry. -I do want... | 0:56:28 | 0:56:31 | |
You just want me... | 0:56:32 | 0:56:34 | |
-You just want me to be happy. -Yeah. | 0:56:34 | 0:56:36 | |
It's what anybody in a comfortable marriage, | 0:56:36 | 0:56:40 | |
relationship wants for their partner, they want them to be happy, | 0:56:40 | 0:56:43 | |
but there's nothing I can do to make that part of your life... | 0:56:43 | 0:56:48 | |
-Different. -Different, or better. | 0:56:48 | 0:56:50 | |
-Yes. It is what it is. -It is what it is. -Yeah. | 0:56:50 | 0:56:54 | |
This event was so unprecedented, | 0:56:58 | 0:57:01 | |
and so huge, with so many implications for so many people, | 0:57:01 | 0:57:05 | |
that we really must mark this important anniversary. | 0:57:05 | 0:57:09 | |
It's very difficult for people, it's very difficult for the community | 0:57:10 | 0:57:13 | |
and many people might not agree with me. | 0:57:13 | 0:57:16 | |
But it's hugely important | 0:57:16 | 0:57:19 | |
to help as best we can those who survived. | 0:57:19 | 0:57:21 | |
And support those who lost. | 0:57:22 | 0:57:25 | |
I've got scarring on my left leg, on both sides, | 0:57:31 | 0:57:34 | |
on my knee and my thigh, | 0:57:34 | 0:57:38 | |
and the doctors at some point had suggested to my mum | 0:57:38 | 0:57:41 | |
that I maybe would want skin grafts to try and cover them up. | 0:57:41 | 0:57:45 | |
My mum, I think she was worried that I'd be self-conscious about them, | 0:57:45 | 0:57:51 | |
getting older and being a teenager, maybe wearing skirts or whatever, | 0:57:51 | 0:57:55 | |
but to me, it wasn't an option. | 0:57:55 | 0:57:57 | |
These are my scars, they're on my body, it's my story, | 0:57:57 | 0:58:01 | |
I'm not going to... | 0:58:01 | 0:58:02 | |
I'm not going to hide them, I'm not ashamed of them. | 0:58:02 | 0:58:06 | |
It is part of UK history now, unfortunately, as well | 0:58:06 | 0:58:08 | |
and it's something that needs to be remembered. | 0:58:08 | 0:58:12 | |
So that everyone's aware that we are still here, | 0:58:12 | 0:58:14 | |
we are still getting on with our lives | 0:58:14 | 0:58:16 | |
and we didn't just fade into the background either. | 0:58:16 | 0:58:20 | |
We still had to power on and push on with our lives | 0:58:20 | 0:58:23 | |
and it's important that everybody knows we're doing it. | 0:58:23 | 0:58:26 | |
And doing it well. | 0:58:26 | 0:58:28 |