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This programme contains some strong language | 0:00:02 | 0:00:07 | |
-WOMAN: -Hello, Paladin? | 0:00:07 | 0:00:08 | |
-WOMAN: -Hi, um, I just wanted to talk to someone, really? | 0:00:08 | 0:00:11 | |
-Yes, are you experiencing stalking at the moment? -Yes. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:13 | |
OK, we're a high-risk service, | 0:00:13 | 0:00:14 | |
so what I'll do is I'll just get some information from you... | 0:00:14 | 0:00:18 | |
He was turning up everywhere that we went, he was threatening us. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:27 | |
We were absolutely petrified. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:29 | |
-WOMAN, CRYING: -I've started getting death threats, | 0:00:32 | 0:00:34 | |
I just don't feel safe. I want my life back. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:37 | |
There's an invisible and invasive crime | 0:00:38 | 0:00:41 | |
that's destroying people's lives. | 0:00:41 | 0:00:44 | |
Sorry... | 0:00:44 | 0:00:45 | |
The police might term it as "harassment". | 0:00:45 | 0:00:47 | |
We'd use the word "stalking". | 0:00:47 | 0:00:49 | |
This film follows Paladin, | 0:00:49 | 0:00:51 | |
a national, independent charity | 0:00:51 | 0:00:53 | |
which fights to protect victims of stalking... | 0:00:53 | 0:00:56 | |
-WOMAN: -I get, like, 40 missed calls a day... -Oh, my God... | 0:00:56 | 0:00:59 | |
..the stalking became, like, a control. | 0:00:59 | 0:01:01 | |
..and three people who live in fear every day of their lives... | 0:01:01 | 0:01:07 | |
I am just walking and she's coming. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:09 | |
..and their journey through the criminal justice system | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
that often fails them. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:14 | |
I know if I stay in my current address, | 0:01:16 | 0:01:20 | |
I'm going to end up dead. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
I'm sick of it, Melissa! | 0:01:22 | 0:01:23 | |
I know you are. I've told the police. | 0:01:23 | 0:01:25 | |
They're supposed to help you, aren't they? | 0:01:25 | 0:01:28 | |
-WOMAN: -Any part of happiness that's supposed to be in our lives | 0:01:28 | 0:01:31 | |
has literally been torn away. | 0:01:31 | 0:01:33 | |
-MAN: -I just wonder when it's going to end. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:34 | |
It will be quicker if I get hit by a bus. Then it will stop. | 0:01:34 | 0:01:37 | |
Are you OK? | 0:01:41 | 0:01:42 | |
-WOMAN SOBS: -I'm just... I'm just so worried. | 0:01:42 | 0:01:45 | |
PHONE RINGS | 0:01:59 | 0:02:01 | |
Good afternoon, Paladin? | 0:02:01 | 0:02:02 | |
Yeah, I'm a caseworker, bear with me one moment, | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
I'll just get up a document. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
So, we support clients that we think | 0:02:07 | 0:02:09 | |
are at high risk of serious harm or even homicide. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
OK. Are you safe speaking on the phone | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
that you've called from, is it the same phone? | 0:02:14 | 0:02:17 | |
A 2017 government report into stalking | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
has revealed nationwide failings | 0:02:20 | 0:02:22 | |
in the way police and the Crown Prosecution Service | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
respond to stalking allegations and offences. | 0:02:25 | 0:02:28 | |
He's said to you, "I'm going to shoot you and your husband"? | 0:02:28 | 0:02:32 | |
OK, so you've reported it to the police? | 0:02:32 | 0:02:34 | |
No police forces in the UK have dedicated stalking units. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:39 | |
We've got a plan of action. It's a very long list... | 0:02:39 | 0:02:43 | |
Set up four years ago and staffed by a specialist team | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
of domestic-abuse caseworkers, | 0:02:46 | 0:02:48 | |
and former police and probation staff, | 0:02:48 | 0:02:50 | |
Paladin advises victims on gathering evidence | 0:02:50 | 0:02:54 | |
and lobbies the police to take action. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
They can log it and report it. | 0:02:57 | 0:02:58 | |
They know when risk is not identified, | 0:02:58 | 0:03:01 | |
stalking can lead to murder. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:03 | |
The restraining order is not robust enough, | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
this is really not going to protect him at all. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
We work with the emergency services to make them aware of the risks, | 0:03:10 | 0:03:13 | |
sometimes police are not aware of the risks. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
So, we try to put in advice, | 0:03:16 | 0:03:17 | |
safety planning, liaising with multi agencies. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:21 | |
If we all work together, | 0:03:22 | 0:03:23 | |
we CAN make that difference, we can save lives. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:26 | |
You got a mouse, a dead mouse, through the post? | 0:03:28 | 0:03:31 | |
Yeah, horrible. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:33 | |
All right, I've got the picture now of the mouse up on my screen. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:37 | |
Alison has been trying to get the police to take action | 0:03:37 | 0:03:41 | |
on her victim Carly's case for the last two years. | 0:03:41 | 0:03:44 | |
-CARLY: -I saw a brown package with my name on it, | 0:03:44 | 0:03:48 | |
and I saw a little speck of blood | 0:03:48 | 0:03:50 | |
and so I just gently opened the top, | 0:03:50 | 0:03:53 | |
and saw it and screamed and threw it down. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
-It must have been really frightening. -It was horrible. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:00 | |
Yeah, absolutely. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:03 | |
It's like she's stepping up the ante and she's escalating. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:06 | |
-Yeah, Alex swears it's her handwriting... -Oh, really? | 0:04:06 | 0:04:09 | |
One in five women, and one in ten men | 0:04:09 | 0:04:12 | |
will experience stalking at some point in their lives. | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
The background to this case is that my victim, Carly, | 0:04:15 | 0:04:19 | |
is going out with Alex - that's her boyfriend - | 0:04:19 | 0:04:21 | |
and Alex's ex-girlfriend is the stalker, | 0:04:21 | 0:04:25 | |
so it's a revenge-stalking case. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:28 | |
She's got this real vengeance and grievance | 0:04:28 | 0:04:31 | |
about him having a new girlfriend. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:33 | |
I mean, she unable to move on. | 0:04:33 | 0:04:35 | |
Two years later, she's unable to move on. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:38 | |
Since she's been stalking me when something happens, | 0:04:44 | 0:04:47 | |
my whole body trembles with fear and anxiety. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
I've never met her, I've never spoken to her. | 0:04:52 | 0:04:55 | |
She can't get over her ex, which is my partner. | 0:04:55 | 0:04:59 | |
It's ever since she found out that we were dating, | 0:04:59 | 0:05:02 | |
I've been targeted. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:04 | |
30-year-old Carly and her boyfriend, Alex, | 0:05:05 | 0:05:08 | |
have been a couple for two years and recently bought a house. | 0:05:08 | 0:05:12 | |
We moved a few months ago, | 0:05:14 | 0:05:15 | |
because we were being stalked and we wanted to live in peace. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:19 | |
We've done everything we can to keep our address secret, | 0:05:19 | 0:05:23 | |
but it was just a waste of time cos she found us anyway. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:26 | |
Carly had this gut feeling that something was coming, | 0:05:26 | 0:05:29 | |
she'd been saying for days, | 0:05:29 | 0:05:31 | |
"Something's coming, I can feel it. I know it." | 0:05:31 | 0:05:33 | |
We knew instantly who would do that. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
I called the police to report it. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:46 | |
You know, everything so far, it's been a game of cat-and-mouse, | 0:05:51 | 0:05:54 | |
I think the only way it can be taken is they're the cat, we're the mouse, | 0:05:54 | 0:05:58 | |
Carly, in particular, is the mouse, | 0:05:58 | 0:06:00 | |
and the fact it's dead... | 0:06:00 | 0:06:02 | |
Is that a death threat? | 0:06:02 | 0:06:04 | |
I don't think the police are taking it seriously | 0:06:06 | 0:06:09 | |
like what measures are being put in place to protect me now? | 0:06:09 | 0:06:11 | |
I don't have a panic alarm, | 0:06:11 | 0:06:13 | |
I have cameras up that I've put up myself, that they didn't provide, | 0:06:13 | 0:06:17 | |
I'm having to protect myself and nobody's listening. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
You're quite concerned about the escalation? | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
I am really frustrated | 0:06:25 | 0:06:27 | |
because the response from police is minimal - | 0:06:27 | 0:06:30 | |
she's probably close on, I don't know, | 0:06:30 | 0:06:32 | |
whether it would be 60 reports to police. | 0:06:32 | 0:06:35 | |
It feels like it's not sitting at the right level now. | 0:06:35 | 0:06:38 | |
We need to address that and bring it to their attention, | 0:06:38 | 0:06:42 | |
perhaps a bit more carefully. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:44 | |
And if we've seen a comparable pattern of behaviour | 0:06:44 | 0:06:48 | |
-in a case which ended in a multiple stabbing... -The Helen Pearson case. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:52 | |
Then we can't ignore that, that has to be taken into account. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:54 | |
Next steps is about really working with police in terms of | 0:06:54 | 0:06:57 | |
what they're going to do. | 0:06:57 | 0:06:58 | |
Are they going to arrest her? What's going to happen next? | 0:06:58 | 0:07:01 | |
-Thanks a lot. -All right, no problem. -OK. | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
The dead mouse is the latest in a sustained stalking campaign | 0:07:12 | 0:07:16 | |
preying on Carly's passion in life - cats. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:19 | |
All the cards I've received from her, anonymous cards, | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
they've been a big cat staring at a little goldfish - | 0:07:25 | 0:07:29 | |
her being the big cat and I'm being the little goldfish | 0:07:29 | 0:07:32 | |
or the little mouse that she's, like, hunting. | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
We've sealed our letterbox up, | 0:07:36 | 0:07:38 | |
cos we were worried that she was going to poison my cat. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:41 | |
A couple of weekends ago, | 0:07:41 | 0:07:43 | |
we woke up to a neighbour knocking on our door just saying | 0:07:43 | 0:07:46 | |
someone had thrown paint over my van. | 0:07:46 | 0:07:49 | |
It's a cat charity, | 0:07:49 | 0:07:50 | |
we save cats, we rescue cats. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:53 | |
Carly has received messages which show the stalker | 0:07:53 | 0:07:57 | |
has investigated every aspect of her life. | 0:07:57 | 0:08:00 | |
It says, "Hey, cat lady, you disgusting human being, | 0:08:00 | 0:08:04 | |
"you are ugly, inside and out, desperate, immoral, | 0:08:04 | 0:08:07 | |
"had their own mother abandon them, probably can't blame her..." | 0:08:07 | 0:08:12 | |
She slates me about not being brought up by a mother | 0:08:13 | 0:08:16 | |
and how I'm not a good enough person | 0:08:16 | 0:08:18 | |
because I've never had a mother's love | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
and that's quite a nasty thing to say. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:22 | |
"PS - Carly, if you have a deposit for a house | 0:08:24 | 0:08:26 | |
"you have money for your nicotine-stained hair, | 0:08:26 | 0:08:28 | |
"you scabby dog." Kisses. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:31 | |
She has targeted my nan, | 0:08:35 | 0:08:37 | |
my grandad, my dad, my stepmum, | 0:08:37 | 0:08:39 | |
my sister, my two best friends. | 0:08:39 | 0:08:41 | |
She's never going to leave me alone, | 0:08:43 | 0:08:45 | |
it's never going to stop. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:47 | |
I hate the fact that someone hates me so much | 0:08:50 | 0:08:53 | |
that she wants to ruin my life. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:55 | |
-PHONE RINGS -Good morning, Paladin? | 0:09:08 | 0:09:12 | |
Good morning, it's Imre Marton speaking. | 0:09:12 | 0:09:14 | |
Hello, Imre, I understand that you've experienced stalking, | 0:09:14 | 0:09:18 | |
the perpetrator is due for release on Thursday. Is that correct? | 0:09:18 | 0:09:21 | |
Yeah, that's correct. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:22 | |
The police called me and they told me she still wants to harm me. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:29 | |
I was told she wants to still kill me. | 0:09:29 | 0:09:33 | |
So, bear with me, Imre, is that correct that the police said | 0:09:33 | 0:09:36 | |
-she still wants to harm you, she still wants to kill you? -Yes. | 0:09:36 | 0:09:40 | |
31-year-old Imre Marton | 0:09:43 | 0:09:45 | |
has been stalked for the last four years | 0:09:45 | 0:09:48 | |
by a complete stranger. | 0:09:48 | 0:09:49 | |
She told me how we should be together. She said she's in love. | 0:09:51 | 0:09:56 | |
OK. Do you think she believes she is in a relationship with you? | 0:09:56 | 0:10:00 | |
Yes, but she's just a stranger. | 0:10:00 | 0:10:03 | |
At the beginning, she did not even know my name. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:08 | |
She just came up with a name. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:12 | |
She called me George. | 0:10:12 | 0:10:13 | |
OK, are you very frightened? | 0:10:18 | 0:10:21 | |
Yes. Yes, I am. | 0:10:23 | 0:10:25 | |
Imre's long-term stalker | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
has been in prison for harassment, | 0:10:39 | 0:10:41 | |
but she's being released in three days. | 0:10:41 | 0:10:43 | |
-Hello! My favourite bus driver. -Hello, how are you? | 0:10:43 | 0:10:46 | |
Hello, how are you? | 0:10:46 | 0:10:48 | |
At first, Imre thought his stalker was just another passenger. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:53 | |
I saw her on the bus, she travelled a lot. | 0:10:53 | 0:10:57 | |
She started to do like round trips, travelling nowhere. | 0:10:58 | 0:11:03 | |
At first, I thought that she was just a bit bored. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
Once she asked me out for a date. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:11 | |
I was a bit shocked and I was really polite. I said to her, | 0:11:11 | 0:11:16 | |
"I'm sorry, I'm not interested, I have a girlfriend." | 0:11:16 | 0:11:20 | |
The thing is, you know, when I said "no," she start to cry. | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
That was the beginning of this nightmare. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
Unemployed 22-year-old Charlie Howell's advances | 0:11:37 | 0:11:41 | |
soon turned to threats. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:43 | |
I'm just walking and she's coming. | 0:11:44 | 0:11:46 | |
She's a dangerous girl. | 0:11:49 | 0:11:50 | |
She told me that if I'm not going to be with her, | 0:11:52 | 0:11:55 | |
she's going to kill me. | 0:11:55 | 0:11:56 | |
She said, "I know your name, your address, | 0:11:59 | 0:12:01 | |
"your number, your name, your date of birth, | 0:12:01 | 0:12:04 | |
"your e-mail address, your car registration, | 0:12:04 | 0:12:06 | |
"all the times and the routes of the buses." | 0:12:06 | 0:12:10 | |
862? | 0:12:14 | 0:12:16 | |
Good morning. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
Imre's stalker even posed as his girlfriend | 0:12:20 | 0:12:23 | |
to get information about his whereabouts from his colleagues. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:26 | |
We could have a couple of instances a day when it got really bad. | 0:12:28 | 0:12:31 | |
It was just crazy. She was just everywhere. | 0:12:31 | 0:12:34 | |
She would know where he was going to be, | 0:12:34 | 0:12:36 | |
what duties he was going to be on. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:37 | |
Can you remember that time at Didcot where we got the phone call | 0:12:37 | 0:12:41 | |
-and she wouldn't get off the bus? -Yes. -She grabbed him once, | 0:12:41 | 0:12:44 | |
he had to push her away to basically escape from her, | 0:12:44 | 0:12:48 | |
left the bus of people there and ran down to the police station, | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
so he must have been petrified. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:53 | |
I need someone to speak to Imre's boss | 0:12:56 | 0:12:59 | |
because there's no work-safety planning at the moment | 0:12:59 | 0:13:02 | |
and he's riding the same bus route, | 0:13:02 | 0:13:05 | |
the same car park that she's aware of, everything's the same. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:09 | |
Paladin caseworker Rosie is worried for Imre's safety | 0:13:09 | 0:13:14 | |
and wants to know what Thames Valley Police | 0:13:14 | 0:13:16 | |
are going to do to protect him. | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
I'm looking for a police officer who has taken over the case. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:22 | |
I'm just trying to intercept and put some interventions in. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:25 | |
I'm going to hazard a guess, she's going to go | 0:13:25 | 0:13:27 | |
straight for those places that are known to her. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:29 | |
Over the last four years, | 0:13:35 | 0:13:37 | |
Imre has reported Charlie Howells more than 100 times | 0:13:37 | 0:13:41 | |
and made 40 different witness statements. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:44 | |
Instead of being charged with stalking, | 0:13:44 | 0:13:46 | |
she was only served with restraining orders. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
There are a lot of statements here. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:52 | |
Restraining orders, | 0:13:52 | 0:13:53 | |
not to enter Oxford centre... | 0:13:53 | 0:13:56 | |
Not to travel on the buses. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:01 | |
Do not contact me. | 0:14:01 | 0:14:02 | |
You know, she breached all of them. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:07 | |
You know, in her mind, | 0:14:07 | 0:14:09 | |
she truly believes I'm with her and, you know, | 0:14:09 | 0:14:12 | |
doesn't understand why I'm calling the police | 0:14:12 | 0:14:16 | |
and why I'm not walking with her on the street, | 0:14:16 | 0:14:18 | |
why I'm running away, | 0:14:18 | 0:14:20 | |
why I'm not acting like her boyfriend. | 0:14:20 | 0:14:23 | |
She has serious issues, in her head. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:29 | |
24/7, | 0:14:29 | 0:14:31 | |
more than four years, | 0:14:31 | 0:14:32 | |
all about me. | 0:14:32 | 0:14:34 | |
And that is really bad. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:36 | |
Charlie Howells was found guilty | 0:14:40 | 0:14:41 | |
of breaching an existing restraining order | 0:14:41 | 0:14:44 | |
and sent to prison for two years. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:46 | |
Paladin can't understand why she's being released | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
after only serving four months. | 0:14:51 | 0:14:53 | |
Yesterday some information came to light. | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
In prison, the perpetrator has been concocting a plan | 0:14:57 | 0:15:01 | |
to harm Imre and she's actually got an accomplice on board. | 0:15:01 | 0:15:05 | |
OK, that is very worrying. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:08 | |
It is. | 0:15:08 | 0:15:10 | |
This is literally all that he's been given, | 0:15:10 | 0:15:12 | |
the police told me about their attack plan, | 0:15:12 | 0:15:15 | |
plus the officer mentioned "they might stab me." | 0:15:15 | 0:15:18 | |
This has only just come to light now, literally... | 0:15:18 | 0:15:20 | |
Do we know if the person that she's in cahoots with, | 0:15:20 | 0:15:23 | |
that she's teamed up with is now out? | 0:15:23 | 0:15:26 | |
That person is already out. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:27 | |
She's got an accomplice onboard, | 0:15:29 | 0:15:30 | |
we don't know where this person is, where they are coming from, | 0:15:30 | 0:15:33 | |
what this person looks like, we don't even know details of the plan. | 0:15:33 | 0:15:37 | |
This is a very, very serious... | 0:15:37 | 0:15:39 | |
Very serious situation. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:41 | |
We haven't updated the last week. | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
So, what I'll put is... | 0:15:47 | 0:15:49 | |
How did she know my surname, | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
my fake name for work, and also my Twitter account for work? | 0:15:51 | 0:15:56 | |
Carly and Alex are keeping a log of the letters | 0:15:56 | 0:16:00 | |
and cyber-stalking incidents. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:02 | |
33... 34... | 0:16:02 | 0:16:04 | |
34 pages. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:05 | |
We've lost count of the number of incidents now. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:08 | |
The stalker put an e-card up, and it says | 0:16:10 | 0:16:14 | |
"Ladies do not start fights but they can FINISH them." | 0:16:14 | 0:16:17 | |
She's tagged her mother in it, | 0:16:17 | 0:16:19 | |
Diane Carter. "Yes. Yes, we can." | 0:16:19 | 0:16:22 | |
They're saying we started the fight, but they're going to finish it. | 0:16:22 | 0:16:26 | |
A year ago, they discovered | 0:16:26 | 0:16:28 | |
their stalker's mother, Diane Carter, is also involved. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:31 | |
If Diane wasn't involved, | 0:16:32 | 0:16:34 | |
I don't think it would have got to this stage. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:36 | |
She's the one that does all the research into our lives. | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
They probably feed each other information, | 0:16:39 | 0:16:42 | |
it probably gets them angry | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
and then they start plotting what they're going to do next. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
Diane Carter has been convicted of harassment | 0:16:47 | 0:16:51 | |
and is subject to a restraining order. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:53 | |
But this hasn't stopped malicious posts on Facebook. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:57 | |
It makes my heart pound whenever I see something on their Facebook. | 0:16:58 | 0:17:03 | |
I know some people will say, "Why are you looking?" | 0:17:03 | 0:17:07 | |
Well, it's actually Paladin have advised me to look | 0:17:07 | 0:17:09 | |
because it puts the case together quite well | 0:17:09 | 0:17:12 | |
and it gets more evidence against them | 0:17:12 | 0:17:15 | |
because they regularly rant about us on there. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:17 | |
There you go, next event? | 0:17:17 | 0:17:20 | |
So, he's talking about your daughter? | 0:17:20 | 0:17:22 | |
Just looking at one of the perpetrators' Facebook page. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:30 | |
Carly's stalker is 29-year-old Poppy Carter. | 0:17:31 | 0:17:34 | |
She's also the mother of Alex's son, who he's only met once. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:39 | |
They broke up before he was born. | 0:17:39 | 0:17:41 | |
She continually uses her little boy | 0:17:43 | 0:17:47 | |
to make her look like, you know, | 0:17:47 | 0:17:49 | |
just a mum, just your everyday mum. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:52 | |
So, you go from your innocent child | 0:17:53 | 0:17:56 | |
who is sitting on the kitchen work surface, that's really lovely, | 0:17:56 | 0:18:00 | |
and then right underneath, you go straight to | 0:18:00 | 0:18:03 | |
"Never kick me when I'm down, | 0:18:03 | 0:18:04 | |
"because when I get back up, you're fucked." | 0:18:04 | 0:18:07 | |
Which is a direct threat to the victim. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:09 | |
And then, we've got the mum, Diane... | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
..in the mix, as well. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:17 | |
"Suck it up, bitch." | 0:18:17 | 0:18:19 | |
Yes, they're doing it in the indirect sense, | 0:18:19 | 0:18:22 | |
so the messages don't say their names on them, | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
so they are trying to be clever, | 0:18:25 | 0:18:26 | |
but then we know that the cat thing is always directed to Carly | 0:18:26 | 0:18:29 | |
because she works with cats. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:31 | |
You know, I hope that the police have seen this. | 0:18:31 | 0:18:34 | |
I think I'll just check with them that they have | 0:18:35 | 0:18:38 | |
because it's very obvious who this is directed at. | 0:18:38 | 0:18:43 | |
In Oxford, Imre's stalker is out of prison, | 0:18:50 | 0:18:54 | |
and he's been told she has a plan to stab him. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:57 | |
The police were here yesterday. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:02 | |
They know she's a threat. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:04 | |
They are going to patrol this place, check in on me... | 0:19:06 | 0:19:09 | |
And the officers mentioned the knife attack is the most popular way. | 0:19:09 | 0:19:15 | |
That's it. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:17 | |
So, if I put a big coat on, you know, it's still not comfy, but... | 0:19:19 | 0:19:25 | |
..I think it's much better to have this than pulling out a knife | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
from your stomach, you know? | 0:19:31 | 0:19:33 | |
She's going to have a curfew at night | 0:19:38 | 0:19:41 | |
regular reporting to staff during the day. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:45 | |
Charlie Howells has been released to a bail hostel | 0:19:45 | 0:19:48 | |
180 miles away in Lancashire. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:51 | |
She is on licence. So, obviously, she'll have conditions. | 0:19:51 | 0:19:54 | |
It would be good to know what those conditions are | 0:19:54 | 0:19:57 | |
and perhaps we can put some recommendations in, | 0:19:57 | 0:19:59 | |
so, thus, she will be managed by probation. | 0:19:59 | 0:20:02 | |
If we can map out how long it will take her | 0:20:02 | 0:20:04 | |
to get from where she is now to where he is now. | 0:20:04 | 0:20:07 | |
Yes, he's still in Oxford. | 0:20:07 | 0:20:09 | |
My concerns are with this that either she's either going to go | 0:20:09 | 0:20:11 | |
straight around there and cause him serious harm | 0:20:11 | 0:20:13 | |
or just continue stalking him at that level, if not escalate it. | 0:20:13 | 0:20:17 | |
The reason why I think that this could escalate | 0:20:17 | 0:20:20 | |
is that she may well now feel aggrieved by Imre that, | 0:20:20 | 0:20:23 | |
"Hey, you gave evidence against me, | 0:20:23 | 0:20:26 | |
"you kept reporting me, you, you, you." | 0:20:26 | 0:20:29 | |
He's feeling that there is almost no way out from this. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:32 | |
In Carly's case, | 0:20:37 | 0:20:38 | |
Alison believes Hertfordshire Police | 0:20:38 | 0:20:41 | |
should be pursuing a stalking charge. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:43 | |
Dog faeces through their letterbox. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
Carly's car keyed on her birthday. | 0:20:47 | 0:20:50 | |
Now, we're at the stage of dead mice arriving in the post. | 0:20:50 | 0:20:54 | |
What concerns is that we've had consistent fixated behaviour now | 0:20:54 | 0:20:59 | |
for two years and a lot of notes saying police couldn't do anything | 0:20:59 | 0:21:04 | |
but this is a Safer Neighbourhood Team Sergeant who is responding, | 0:21:04 | 0:21:08 | |
and I would see this now as a matter for CID. | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
A perfect case of not having the dots joined, | 0:21:11 | 0:21:15 | |
not understanding fixation, not understanding stalking. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
It's a high-risk stalking case and if they don't understand that | 0:21:19 | 0:21:21 | |
they might not get the cumulative risk. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
What I will do is provide you | 0:21:24 | 0:21:26 | |
with some support a bit nearer to the time around court, as well | 0:21:26 | 0:21:30 | |
as you being a witness... | 0:21:30 | 0:21:31 | |
-How did Luton do at the weekend? -They won, 2-1. | 0:21:37 | 0:21:41 | |
Have you been to Watford, then, Carly? | 0:21:41 | 0:21:44 | |
Yeah, once. A long time ago? Never go again. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:48 | |
It's all the foul language! | 0:21:48 | 0:21:50 | |
They were saying, "See you next Tuesday" and everything! | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
-Hiya, Mark. How have you been doing today? -OK, and you? | 0:21:53 | 0:21:57 | |
Carly's family are desperate to bring years of attacks to an end. | 0:21:57 | 0:22:00 | |
She has vandalised her dad's car, | 0:22:02 | 0:22:04 | |
she's vandalised my van, | 0:22:04 | 0:22:06 | |
she's sent hate mail through. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:09 | |
Every week there was something, | 0:22:09 | 0:22:10 | |
I was afraid to be at home on my own. I'm nearly 60 years of age. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:14 | |
I don't need hate mail from a 20-odd-year-old. | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
The stalkers showed their perverse dedication | 0:22:20 | 0:22:22 | |
when they unearthed a 30-year-old family secret. | 0:22:22 | 0:22:25 | |
-It was hand delivered. -It was hand delivered. | 0:22:26 | 0:22:28 | |
I thought it was a wedding invitation to start with | 0:22:28 | 0:22:31 | |
in a coloured envelope. When I opened it up... | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
-SOBBING: -It's got my son's name on it... Sorry! | 0:22:41 | 0:22:43 | |
I don't... | 0:22:43 | 0:22:45 | |
"David, | 0:22:45 | 0:22:48 | |
"what a great role model you are. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:50 | |
"Explains a lot." | 0:22:50 | 0:22:51 | |
And the thing is, I haven't seen my son, | 0:22:53 | 0:22:55 | |
it wasn't my son's fault, this was down to me, since he was seven. | 0:22:55 | 0:23:00 | |
He's now 36 years of age. | 0:23:00 | 0:23:01 | |
Nobody knew about that - | 0:23:13 | 0:23:14 | |
even some of the family members didn't know about that. | 0:23:14 | 0:23:17 | |
Something I kept to myself. | 0:23:17 | 0:23:19 | |
I don't think... I won't ever get over that. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
What kind of person would do that? | 0:23:25 | 0:23:27 | |
Sorry... | 0:23:31 | 0:23:32 | |
It's been a hard part of somebody's life, that is, | 0:23:34 | 0:23:38 | |
without somebody sending malicious, unnecessary... | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
It seems amazing how the police have let it go on for so long | 0:23:44 | 0:23:47 | |
without actually doing anything. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:48 | |
-It seems like she can do what she likes... -Yeah. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:51 | |
..and she's got the law on her side. | 0:23:51 | 0:23:54 | |
You can never relax, you know? | 0:24:18 | 0:24:20 | |
It's just constant in your mind. | 0:24:22 | 0:24:25 | |
Sweet dreams. OK, darling. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:28 | |
I hear her walking about, | 0:24:34 | 0:24:36 | |
opening doors. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:38 | |
I keep thinking, "I wonder if she's put the window alarm on?" | 0:24:40 | 0:24:43 | |
The psychology of somebody like him, | 0:24:45 | 0:24:48 | |
that's cowardly and creeps about in the dark, | 0:24:48 | 0:24:51 | |
that's the stuff nightmares are made of. | 0:24:51 | 0:24:54 | |
Every night, single mum Melissa Thompson | 0:24:57 | 0:24:59 | |
sleeps on the sofa in her kitchen by her CCTV. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:03 | |
I have a crowbar and that stays round the back of my pillow, | 0:25:06 | 0:25:09 | |
round the back of the settee. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:13 | |
It's the only way I'll sleep, if I know that if something did happen, | 0:25:13 | 0:25:16 | |
and he did actually come in this house, | 0:25:16 | 0:25:19 | |
then I've got a chance of stopping him getting anywhere near me mum | 0:25:19 | 0:25:22 | |
or anywhere near me son. | 0:25:22 | 0:25:24 | |
Melissa lives with her mum Edith and her 13-year-old son John. | 0:25:38 | 0:25:42 | |
They think they're being stalked by Melissa's ex-boyfriend. | 0:25:43 | 0:25:47 | |
Look at these things. They've outgrown themselves. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:51 | |
Ex-partners make up 57% of all stalking cases. | 0:25:53 | 0:25:58 | |
I thought he was a very nice man, polite, had a good job. | 0:25:58 | 0:26:02 | |
I thought, "She's all right here, this is the one!" | 0:26:03 | 0:26:07 | |
And then he gradually wanted to take over control | 0:26:07 | 0:26:11 | |
and she wouldn't have that. | 0:26:11 | 0:26:13 | |
I should get plenty of seed pods off that one... | 0:26:15 | 0:26:18 | |
At first, I just took it as a break-up | 0:26:18 | 0:26:20 | |
and he was having trouble dealing with it. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:23 | |
I thought it would sort of calm down. | 0:26:23 | 0:26:25 | |
I just wouldn't answer his phone calls | 0:26:25 | 0:26:27 | |
and I wouldn't answer his texts, | 0:26:27 | 0:26:29 | |
then he started ringing on withheld numbers, | 0:26:29 | 0:26:31 | |
so we blocked withheld numbers. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
The night he turned up banging on the window out here, | 0:26:33 | 0:26:35 | |
I just said to John and my mum, | 0:26:35 | 0:26:37 | |
"Get upstairs and stay up there and lock the door." | 0:26:37 | 0:26:39 | |
And I was on the phone to the police, and his banging carried on. | 0:26:39 | 0:26:43 | |
Me son's upstairs, terrified. | 0:26:44 | 0:26:46 | |
Anyway, two policewomen came | 0:26:48 | 0:26:49 | |
and that's when me mobile started ringing. She said, "Is that him?" | 0:26:49 | 0:26:52 | |
And I went, "Oh, yeah." | 0:26:52 | 0:26:54 | |
So, she answered it and he ranted and raved at her. | 0:26:54 | 0:26:56 | |
She said, "If you don't stop, we're going to come and arrest you." | 0:26:56 | 0:26:59 | |
After six months of abusive phone calls | 0:27:00 | 0:27:03 | |
and sometimes up to 30 texts a day, | 0:27:03 | 0:27:06 | |
Melissa's ex was served with a Police Information Notice - or PIN - | 0:27:06 | 0:27:10 | |
warning him further behaviour would be considered an offence. | 0:27:10 | 0:27:13 | |
That's when it started to get really sinister. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:17 | |
All this damage was happening. | 0:27:17 | 0:27:19 | |
Somebody pulled all the wiring from the hot tub in the back garden, | 0:27:19 | 0:27:23 | |
my windscreen wipers had been pulled off my car, | 0:27:23 | 0:27:26 | |
someone has knocked some stakes into the ground | 0:27:26 | 0:27:28 | |
so that it would damage the lawn mower, | 0:27:28 | 0:27:30 | |
notes on my back door, ranting letters. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:32 | |
Somebody's come close to the house. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:36 | |
Every time I rang the police about an incident or a letter | 0:27:36 | 0:27:38 | |
had been dropped on the door, | 0:27:38 | 0:27:40 | |
all they said was, "Have you got CCTV?" | 0:27:40 | 0:27:42 | |
When they didn't do anything, | 0:27:42 | 0:27:43 | |
because they said, "You've got no proof, you've got no proof," | 0:27:43 | 0:27:46 | |
we splashed out for CCTV, which we couldn't really afford | 0:27:46 | 0:27:49 | |
but we've had to do it, really. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:51 | |
This covers the drive because I've have had a lot of damage to my car. | 0:27:58 | 0:28:02 | |
And the other one was the back. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:04 | |
It's the quietest part of the garden | 0:28:04 | 0:28:07 | |
and also it can't be viewed from the street or any of our neighbours. | 0:28:07 | 0:28:10 | |
Over recent weeks, Melissa and her mum have become more fearful. | 0:28:13 | 0:28:17 | |
A few nights ago, a torch appeared up the garden. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:22 | |
It was dark. Couldn't see who was holding the torch. | 0:28:30 | 0:28:33 | |
And it moved about a bit... | 0:28:33 | 0:28:35 | |
..then it shone straight at the house | 0:28:36 | 0:28:39 | |
as if to say, "I'm here! I'm here!" | 0:28:39 | 0:28:41 | |
And then he went. | 0:28:41 | 0:28:43 | |
It's frightening. | 0:28:45 | 0:28:47 | |
Fancy crawling around somebody's garden! | 0:28:47 | 0:28:50 | |
Melissa hasn't seen her ex at the house since the police notice, | 0:28:51 | 0:28:54 | |
but she can't think who else would be coming into her garden. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
I think he's staying away from the house, | 0:28:59 | 0:29:03 | |
so that he can't be seen, | 0:29:03 | 0:29:05 | |
so it's sort of, "I'm still here, | 0:29:05 | 0:29:08 | |
"and you can put cameras up but it's not going stop me. | 0:29:08 | 0:29:10 | |
"I'll just find a way round it." | 0:29:10 | 0:29:12 | |
Isn't it ridiculous, in this day and age. | 0:29:12 | 0:29:16 | |
I tell you who we want on the job - Frost, off the telly - | 0:29:16 | 0:29:20 | |
or who's the other one? The big...? | 0:29:20 | 0:29:22 | |
-Cracker. -Cracker! | 0:29:22 | 0:29:24 | |
He'd have it solved in a couple of days! | 0:29:24 | 0:29:26 | |
It's clearly a person holding it. | 0:29:30 | 0:29:32 | |
That's definitely torchlight, isn't it? | 0:29:34 | 0:29:38 | |
He likes to come to the property at night. | 0:29:38 | 0:29:41 | |
Ex-intimate stalkers are revenge stalkers. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:45 | |
They are not accepting of the separation. | 0:29:45 | 0:29:48 | |
At the point of separation, that's when they start to stalk. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:51 | |
Such dedication to go into somebody's back garden at midnight! | 0:29:51 | 0:29:54 | |
That revenge motivation is essentially based on control. | 0:29:55 | 0:29:59 | |
Close down their world, isolate them, affect their job, | 0:29:59 | 0:30:03 | |
affect the way they're thinking. | 0:30:03 | 0:30:05 | |
13 months and it's just not stopping. | 0:30:10 | 0:30:14 | |
I could get this revengeful furious ex, | 0:30:14 | 0:30:16 | |
but after all this time, somebody who's willing | 0:30:16 | 0:30:19 | |
to spend that kind of time hunting you down is just frightening. | 0:30:19 | 0:30:22 | |
It is frightening. | 0:30:22 | 0:30:23 | |
I have to drive past his house every morning on the way to work. | 0:30:39 | 0:30:43 | |
There's been a few times when he's seen my car and followed me to work. | 0:30:43 | 0:30:49 | |
If a car pulls up behind me or if there's the same car | 0:30:49 | 0:30:52 | |
that follows me for any length of time, you're thinking, | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
"He's still behind me. Why is he still behind me?" | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
He tried to control me through the relationship | 0:31:03 | 0:31:06 | |
and just came up against a brick wall. | 0:31:06 | 0:31:09 | |
And now what he's doing is just continue to try and control me. | 0:31:09 | 0:31:14 | |
He wants me to me knees and once he's got me there, he's won. | 0:31:14 | 0:31:20 | |
So, I can't allow that to happen. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:22 | |
I've got to...just get on with it. | 0:31:22 | 0:31:25 | |
Imre's stalker has been out of prison for just six days. | 0:31:42 | 0:31:46 | |
She's banned from entering Oxford, | 0:31:46 | 0:31:49 | |
but, last night, an anonymous note was left on his door. | 0:31:49 | 0:31:53 | |
I know if I stay in my current address I'm going to end up dead. | 0:31:53 | 0:31:58 | |
Imre has fled his home and checked into a hotel. | 0:32:04 | 0:32:07 | |
It says, "Keep dreaming, shine like a star... | 0:32:16 | 0:32:19 | |
"Never give up, you are your own beautiful." | 0:32:21 | 0:32:27 | |
"Beautiful" - she called me "beautiful" so many times. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:31 | |
Those are her thoughts. Probably her cellmate wrote it down. | 0:32:31 | 0:32:35 | |
This morning, police finally gave Imre | 0:32:40 | 0:32:42 | |
a picture of his stalker's cellmate | 0:32:42 | 0:32:44 | |
who they believe is plotting with Charlie Howells to stab him. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:49 | |
The emotional toll it's taking on you is very high. | 0:32:51 | 0:32:55 | |
I don't want to go back home till she's behind bars. | 0:32:55 | 0:32:58 | |
It's just not safe. | 0:32:58 | 0:33:00 | |
Yup, yup, I feel for you | 0:33:00 | 0:33:02 | |
and I feel that anxiety... | 0:33:02 | 0:33:04 | |
-I'm still shaking. -The situation is what's abnormal | 0:33:04 | 0:33:08 | |
and what's not right... | 0:33:08 | 0:33:10 | |
-ALISON: -Very concerning level of fixation here. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:14 | |
It's obsession, it's hunting that victim down. | 0:33:14 | 0:33:17 | |
Completely controlling their life. | 0:33:19 | 0:33:22 | |
Hertfordshire Police, please? | 0:33:36 | 0:33:38 | |
Yes, there might be someone who knows the case, | 0:33:39 | 0:33:42 | |
Carly Bradbury's case. | 0:33:42 | 0:33:44 | |
I'm her stalking advocate. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:46 | |
The police have finally arrested Carly's stalker, Poppy Carter, | 0:33:47 | 0:33:51 | |
but Paladin believe the Crown Prosecution Service | 0:33:51 | 0:33:54 | |
are looking at the wrong charge. | 0:33:54 | 0:33:56 | |
I just wanted to speak to someone who might know why | 0:33:58 | 0:34:00 | |
the word "harassment" instead of "stalking" has been mentioned, | 0:34:00 | 0:34:04 | |
with Poppy's arrest? | 0:34:04 | 0:34:06 | |
Hopefully, we can change it to a stalking charge. | 0:34:06 | 0:34:10 | |
I don't want it dumbed down to harassment, | 0:34:10 | 0:34:13 | |
because that's how it feels when they overlook the fixation | 0:34:13 | 0:34:18 | |
and just treat it as a nuisance behaviour. | 0:34:18 | 0:34:21 | |
I don't understand the reluctance to call it stalking. | 0:34:27 | 0:34:30 | |
Because criminal damage and harassment | 0:34:30 | 0:34:33 | |
could be one-off incidents. | 0:34:33 | 0:34:35 | |
This is an obsession. | 0:34:35 | 0:34:37 | |
It's a mental-health thing. | 0:34:37 | 0:34:39 | |
Just because she's got arrested on Friday, | 0:34:39 | 0:34:41 | |
it doesn't mean she's going to stop | 0:34:41 | 0:34:43 | |
because she's fixated and obsessed. | 0:34:43 | 0:34:45 | |
She needs to be convicted for stalking | 0:34:45 | 0:34:49 | |
and get the mental health resources that she needs. | 0:34:49 | 0:34:54 | |
I just wonder when it's going to end. How it's going to end. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:56 | |
-It's not going to end. -You can't take a lifetime of this. | 0:34:56 | 0:34:59 | |
It would be quicker if I get hit by a bus. Then it would stop. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
Poppy Carter's recent arrest | 0:35:11 | 0:35:13 | |
appears to have triggered a backlash from her mother. | 0:35:13 | 0:35:16 | |
So, the stalker's mother... | 0:35:18 | 0:35:20 | |
I don't understand what she's put on here. | 0:35:22 | 0:35:24 | |
She's put a... A baby scan up? | 0:35:24 | 0:35:28 | |
20 weeks pregnant - what the hell is that about? | 0:35:28 | 0:35:31 | |
She's put in, what a good family you are | 0:35:33 | 0:35:36 | |
breaking up with her daughter when she was 20 weeks pregnant. | 0:35:36 | 0:35:39 | |
That's what it's about. | 0:35:39 | 0:35:41 | |
-When was that posted? -Four hours ago. | 0:35:44 | 0:35:47 | |
-Just ignore it. -She's going on about the same things, | 0:35:48 | 0:35:53 | |
like, three years down the line. | 0:35:53 | 0:35:54 | |
Carly, can you put your phone down now? | 0:35:54 | 0:35:56 | |
Cos you know how it's going to make you feel. | 0:35:56 | 0:35:58 | |
Why can't you ignore it? | 0:36:03 | 0:36:04 | |
Cos it's, it's... | 0:36:06 | 0:36:07 | |
because I can ignore it, | 0:36:07 | 0:36:09 | |
but the fact is, when they're doing angry rants like this, | 0:36:09 | 0:36:12 | |
I know that they're going to do something, | 0:36:12 | 0:36:14 | |
and that's what worries me. | 0:36:14 | 0:36:16 | |
Cos every time this happens, something happens after that. | 0:36:16 | 0:36:20 | |
But you can't stop that. | 0:36:20 | 0:36:21 | |
Yeah, but it doesn't stop me from worrying about it. | 0:36:21 | 0:36:25 | |
You can't just switch off. | 0:36:25 | 0:36:26 | |
You can switch off, I can't. | 0:36:26 | 0:36:28 | |
It's me that tries to pick you up when these things happen. | 0:36:28 | 0:36:31 | |
The only person who can pick me up | 0:36:31 | 0:36:33 | |
is the police doing their job properly. | 0:36:33 | 0:36:35 | |
That's the only people that can pick me up. | 0:36:35 | 0:36:37 | |
What's the reason behind these cameras? | 0:36:52 | 0:36:54 | |
-Just a bit of home security? -Well, I'm being stalked. | 0:36:54 | 0:36:57 | |
It's been going on for about 14 months now. | 0:36:57 | 0:36:59 | |
Hopefully, these will do the trick, once we get them set up, | 0:36:59 | 0:37:02 | |
they will pick up anybody walking from this direction. | 0:37:02 | 0:37:05 | |
Additional cameras are being installed in Melissa's garden. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:09 | |
She and her mother are becoming more scared | 0:37:09 | 0:37:11 | |
in the run-up to Bonfire Night. | 0:37:11 | 0:37:13 | |
I'm on edge all the time, you know, | 0:37:13 | 0:37:15 | |
it sounds ridiculous, I know, | 0:37:15 | 0:37:17 | |
but I'm always on edge, if you know what I mean, I can't relax. | 0:37:17 | 0:37:22 | |
We've got this camera here... | 0:37:22 | 0:37:23 | |
I think he's waiting until 5th November, | 0:37:23 | 0:37:25 | |
and he's coming to set fire to something. | 0:37:25 | 0:37:29 | |
I've just noticed something I find a tad worrying - that! | 0:37:29 | 0:37:33 | |
That's been broke on purpose. | 0:37:34 | 0:37:36 | |
That would fire pretty quick.. | 0:37:36 | 0:37:38 | |
Yup. | 0:37:39 | 0:37:40 | |
Fuelling their anxiety, a mutual friend says she's heard Melissa's ex | 0:37:40 | 0:37:44 | |
talking suspiciously about Bonfire Night | 0:37:44 | 0:37:47 | |
and is worried for her safety. | 0:37:47 | 0:37:49 | |
It's a shame he doesn't come in the daytime, really. | 0:37:49 | 0:37:52 | |
Yeah, it is. There's no way he can get down the garden. | 0:37:52 | 0:37:55 | |
-The whole boundary to boundary's covered. -Yup. | 0:37:55 | 0:37:57 | |
-Hello, Melissa. It's Alison from Paladin. -Hiya. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:07 | |
-I just wondered, did you call the police? -Yeah. | 0:38:07 | 0:38:10 | |
And what did they say? | 0:38:10 | 0:38:12 | |
They said, I don't think we need to take a statement or anything, | 0:38:12 | 0:38:15 | |
but we'll get back to you and they didn't. | 0:38:15 | 0:38:18 | |
I'll see if there's any pushing I can do with the police. | 0:38:19 | 0:38:23 | |
Just cos he said Bonfire Night, | 0:38:23 | 0:38:25 | |
it's not necessarily going to be. | 0:38:25 | 0:38:28 | |
It could just be that threat. | 0:38:28 | 0:38:30 | |
He's patient and that's worse. | 0:38:30 | 0:38:33 | |
Like you say, he might be trying to create | 0:38:33 | 0:38:35 | |
this level of fear for you, | 0:38:35 | 0:38:37 | |
this build-up and then not do anything on that day. | 0:38:37 | 0:38:41 | |
You just reach a point where you get sick to death | 0:38:41 | 0:38:43 | |
or frightened of your own shadow, And you think, "Oh, for God's sake, | 0:38:43 | 0:38:46 | |
-"just do whatever you're going to do and get on with it." -Yeah. | 0:38:46 | 0:38:49 | |
The firemen have given us safety ladders. | 0:38:55 | 0:38:57 | |
What a carry on! | 0:38:58 | 0:39:00 | |
I don't know how they expect me to climb over a window sill | 0:39:00 | 0:39:03 | |
onto a safety ladder! | 0:39:03 | 0:39:04 | |
But I don't say anything. | 0:39:04 | 0:39:07 | |
Like you say, you don't know if it's just an idle threat | 0:39:10 | 0:39:14 | |
to frighten you or if he is actually going to do something, | 0:39:14 | 0:39:18 | |
you don't know what he's going to do. | 0:39:18 | 0:39:20 | |
Well, I've rung police and told them. | 0:39:20 | 0:39:24 | |
What did they say? Wait till it happens? | 0:39:24 | 0:39:26 | |
They are supposed to log it, and then when I've rung back later, | 0:39:26 | 0:39:30 | |
-nobody's got any log of it. -This is silly. This is absolute silliness. | 0:39:30 | 0:39:33 | |
I just want it logging, | 0:39:33 | 0:39:34 | |
because otherwise when I ring up and say something's been set fire to, | 0:39:34 | 0:39:38 | |
they'll say, "Why do you think it's him? | 0:39:38 | 0:39:39 | |
"What makes you think it's him?" | 0:39:39 | 0:39:41 | |
Police have basically turned round to you and said, | 0:39:41 | 0:39:44 | |
"Well, let's wait and see if it happens." | 0:39:44 | 0:39:47 | |
They've not said that, but... | 0:39:47 | 0:39:49 | |
In so many words they've said it to you, | 0:39:49 | 0:39:52 | |
and when it happens, it's too late. | 0:39:52 | 0:39:54 | |
Honestly, I've reached that point now where I'm just numb. | 0:39:54 | 0:39:57 | |
Just do whatever you're going to do and get on with it. | 0:39:57 | 0:40:00 | |
Thames Valley Police have made arrangements | 0:40:14 | 0:40:16 | |
for Imre to move into a safe house. | 0:40:16 | 0:40:19 | |
I don't see that much daylight any more.. | 0:40:21 | 0:40:25 | |
So... I hate this curtain... I have to have this, | 0:40:28 | 0:40:31 | |
cos it's always closed so no-one can see in... | 0:40:31 | 0:40:37 | |
and I am not happy about the front door. | 0:40:37 | 0:40:40 | |
I'm planning to cover the glass. | 0:40:43 | 0:40:45 | |
My personal life, it shrinks... | 0:40:45 | 0:40:48 | |
..and... | 0:40:49 | 0:40:51 | |
..this is the only way I can feel safe | 0:40:52 | 0:40:56 | |
if I do those changes like no more sunlight. | 0:40:56 | 0:40:59 | |
It's like a little prison. | 0:41:05 | 0:41:06 | |
But it's safe and I would like to keep it that way. | 0:41:09 | 0:41:13 | |
Alison and Catherine are travelling to Oxford | 0:41:25 | 0:41:28 | |
with an important update for Imre. | 0:41:28 | 0:41:31 | |
This will be the first time they've met him face to face. | 0:41:31 | 0:41:34 | |
Even if the perpetrator is in custody, | 0:41:34 | 0:41:37 | |
it doesn't make a difference. | 0:41:37 | 0:41:39 | |
He's been programmed to be hyper-vigilant | 0:41:39 | 0:41:41 | |
because that's your survival response. | 0:41:41 | 0:41:44 | |
I can't imagine that he's sleeping. | 0:41:44 | 0:41:47 | |
It will be useful to explore that a bit more... | 0:41:47 | 0:41:50 | |
DOOR BELL RINGS | 0:41:50 | 0:41:51 | |
-Hello! Nice to meet you, finally. -Nice to meet you, Imre. | 0:41:51 | 0:41:54 | |
-How are you settling in? -Slowly. It's much safer. | 0:41:54 | 0:41:58 | |
No-one knows about it. | 0:41:58 | 0:41:59 | |
I didn't even tell to my boss that I'm living here. | 0:41:59 | 0:42:03 | |
OK, that's good. | 0:42:03 | 0:42:04 | |
I've got some news. It's good news. | 0:42:04 | 0:42:08 | |
She's been recalled. | 0:42:08 | 0:42:10 | |
So, that means she has to serve the remainder of her sentence. | 0:42:10 | 0:42:14 | |
We've had a long discussion about when would that mean | 0:42:14 | 0:42:17 | |
possibly she might get out. | 0:42:17 | 0:42:18 | |
The end of her sentence will take her to August 2017. | 0:42:18 | 0:42:22 | |
So, how do you feel? | 0:42:22 | 0:42:25 | |
Everybody thinks I'm like a strong male | 0:42:26 | 0:42:29 | |
and I can deal with this - but I cannot, you know? | 0:42:29 | 0:42:32 | |
I lost my girlfriend because of this... | 0:42:32 | 0:42:35 | |
Everything, you know? | 0:42:35 | 0:42:37 | |
So... | 0:42:37 | 0:42:38 | |
It is difficult, you know, still. | 0:42:38 | 0:42:41 | |
Of course it is. I know. | 0:42:41 | 0:42:43 | |
SHE SIGHS | 0:42:43 | 0:42:44 | |
And I, you know, I just wish I had a magic wand, as well, for you. | 0:42:44 | 0:42:49 | |
Why should have to lose your girlfriend and lose all of this? | 0:42:49 | 0:42:53 | |
Actually, if I'm alone I'm always like this. | 0:42:53 | 0:42:57 | |
Imre, I'm so sorry. | 0:42:57 | 0:42:58 | |
I don't want to show it to my colleagues and my friends. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:03 | |
It's too much. | 0:43:03 | 0:43:05 | |
Imre, anyone would feel awful like this. | 0:43:05 | 0:43:12 | |
This is not something that you should have to be living through. | 0:43:12 | 0:43:15 | |
You're human and you want to have a relationship | 0:43:15 | 0:43:19 | |
and you want to have friends. | 0:43:19 | 0:43:21 | |
The thing is, if I have a girlfriend and start a family, | 0:43:21 | 0:43:25 | |
she will be out one day, | 0:43:25 | 0:43:27 | |
and what is she going to do? | 0:43:27 | 0:43:29 | |
She's so messed up, you know? | 0:43:29 | 0:43:31 | |
So, so... In her head. | 0:43:31 | 0:43:34 | |
With short sentences and no psychological treatment in prison, | 0:43:37 | 0:43:41 | |
Imre lives in fear that his stalker will reoffend on her release. | 0:43:41 | 0:43:45 | |
-Thank you. -All right. Take care. | 0:43:45 | 0:43:47 | |
-Have a good journey, then. -Thank you. | 0:43:47 | 0:43:50 | |
It's always hitting me when I'm at home late, | 0:43:50 | 0:43:54 | |
I had those good memories of when I used to have my girlfriend. | 0:43:54 | 0:43:58 | |
I still really love her... | 0:43:58 | 0:44:00 | |
..but... | 0:44:02 | 0:44:04 | |
..you know, she had enough, | 0:44:05 | 0:44:08 | |
and I can totally understand that. | 0:44:08 | 0:44:11 | |
It's not right. | 0:44:11 | 0:44:13 | |
At all, you know? | 0:44:13 | 0:44:15 | |
You know, I just don't want to cry again... | 0:44:18 | 0:44:21 | |
It's just bad. | 0:44:23 | 0:44:25 | |
Poppy Carter is still on bail for criminal damage and harassment | 0:44:42 | 0:44:46 | |
while police gather more evidence. | 0:44:46 | 0:44:49 | |
After the stalker was at the police station last week | 0:44:51 | 0:44:55 | |
for her bail conditions, | 0:44:55 | 0:44:57 | |
her mum started again on her Facebook rants. | 0:44:57 | 0:45:01 | |
There's been quite a number of them. | 0:45:02 | 0:45:04 | |
So, the first one, she put up an e-card saying, "I'll wait." | 0:45:04 | 0:45:09 | |
Which I think she's waiting for what the outcome is | 0:45:09 | 0:45:13 | |
and then she'll start up again. | 0:45:13 | 0:45:14 | |
And she put #dirtyrottenscum. | 0:45:14 | 0:45:18 | |
She put up another e-card, saying, | 0:45:20 | 0:45:22 | |
"All in good time, my pretty," from the Wicked Witch. | 0:45:22 | 0:45:25 | |
So, again, it's just more threats. | 0:45:25 | 0:45:28 | |
I think these posts were put up out of anger, | 0:45:28 | 0:45:30 | |
I think she couldn't help herself. | 0:45:30 | 0:45:33 | |
Unless she's stalking someone else, | 0:45:33 | 0:45:35 | |
who else would these be aimed at? | 0:45:35 | 0:45:39 | |
She's absolutely off her head. | 0:45:39 | 0:45:41 | |
I'm sick of it, Melissa! I really am. | 0:45:57 | 0:45:59 | |
-I know you are. Well, so am I. -I'm holding on, holding on. | 0:45:59 | 0:46:03 | |
It's been going on for so long. | 0:46:03 | 0:46:06 | |
We used to have a quiet, peaceful life. | 0:46:06 | 0:46:09 | |
It's Bonfire Night. | 0:46:10 | 0:46:12 | |
Melissa, her mum and her son John are on edge. | 0:46:12 | 0:46:15 | |
They can sneak round the back of the shed, | 0:46:16 | 0:46:19 | |
just pour some petrol in there, and throw a match and run. | 0:46:19 | 0:46:22 | |
It's next to Paul's buildings, | 0:46:22 | 0:46:24 | |
and it's sure to spread across if he sets fire to that. | 0:46:24 | 0:46:28 | |
If he sets fire to that, Paul will shoot him. | 0:46:28 | 0:46:31 | |
-How many fishcakes? -Two. -Two. | 0:46:31 | 0:46:32 | |
Did you hear anything at all last night? | 0:46:49 | 0:46:52 | |
No. nothing. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:54 | |
-Any bangings, rustlings? -Nothing. | 0:46:54 | 0:46:55 | |
Melissa checks last night's CCTV. | 0:46:57 | 0:47:00 | |
A quiet night. | 0:47:01 | 0:47:03 | |
-Is that good or bad? -No. It's good, it's very good. | 0:47:05 | 0:47:07 | |
I just want to catch him and get some evidence... | 0:47:10 | 0:47:13 | |
..that the police would actually have to use. | 0:47:15 | 0:47:17 | |
I mean, we've had loads of things that could have only been him. | 0:47:17 | 0:47:20 | |
He's so patient. | 0:47:20 | 0:47:21 | |
I always said that's the worst thing about it, | 0:47:21 | 0:47:23 | |
I'll never know when it's stopped. | 0:47:23 | 0:47:26 | |
See you later. | 0:47:33 | 0:47:35 | |
Love you. | 0:47:35 | 0:47:37 | |
Hope it goes well. | 0:47:37 | 0:47:39 | |
After a two-year battle, the Crown Prosecution Service | 0:47:40 | 0:47:44 | |
have finally charged Poppy Carter with stalking. | 0:47:44 | 0:47:46 | |
Today is a court hearing to determine | 0:47:48 | 0:47:51 | |
whether the case will go to trial. | 0:47:51 | 0:47:53 | |
I haven't slept hardly in the last few nights. | 0:47:53 | 0:47:58 | |
I've been getting myself in a state about it. | 0:47:58 | 0:48:00 | |
I feel sick to the stomach. | 0:48:02 | 0:48:05 | |
It's just like the day we wanted for so long, | 0:48:05 | 0:48:08 | |
to finally get her into court, | 0:48:08 | 0:48:10 | |
and, you know, get some kind of justice. | 0:48:10 | 0:48:13 | |
So, I'm feeling nervous about that. | 0:48:13 | 0:48:15 | |
Stalking was made a criminal offence in 2012, | 0:48:21 | 0:48:26 | |
yet few cases make it to court. | 0:48:26 | 0:48:28 | |
My guess is that she is going to plead not guilty today, | 0:48:29 | 0:48:34 | |
it's a way of staying in contact with me. It's a two-week trial, | 0:48:34 | 0:48:37 | |
she will obviously see me there, I'll have to see her, | 0:48:37 | 0:48:40 | |
it's just another way of staying in contact with each other, | 0:48:40 | 0:48:44 | |
another way to torment me. | 0:48:44 | 0:48:46 | |
Alex's stepfather Kevin is going into court on Carly's behalf. | 0:48:49 | 0:48:53 | |
-Are you going to come in with us? -No. -No? I can't convince you? | 0:48:55 | 0:49:00 | |
No, I can't. I feel sick even thinking about it. I can't face her. | 0:49:00 | 0:49:03 | |
I fully understand, but if you change your mind, | 0:49:03 | 0:49:05 | |
-you want to come in? -Yeah, OK, thank you. | 0:49:05 | 0:49:08 | |
It's like I'm living an absolute nightmare. | 0:49:12 | 0:49:15 | |
If she hadn't been arrested after that mouse, | 0:49:19 | 0:49:22 | |
it was getting more and more sinister | 0:49:22 | 0:49:24 | |
where I would have thought it would have resulted in my murder. | 0:49:24 | 0:49:27 | |
Because that's how horror films end, | 0:49:27 | 0:49:30 | |
and it feels like a horror film to me. | 0:49:30 | 0:49:32 | |
-What? -Hello, darling. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:40 | |
-You look upset. -I think it went the way you thought it would. | 0:49:40 | 0:49:43 | |
-Not guilty? -She's pleaded not guilty. | 0:49:43 | 0:49:46 | |
She hired a private detective, which was quite interesting. | 0:49:46 | 0:49:50 | |
-That came out. -What the fuck? Someone has been following me? | 0:49:50 | 0:49:53 | |
You and Alex. That's how she found out where you and Alex live. | 0:49:53 | 0:49:57 | |
What a weirdo! | 0:49:57 | 0:49:58 | |
Who hires a private detective to find out? | 0:49:58 | 0:50:02 | |
And then she still pleads not guilty! Just own up to it... | 0:50:02 | 0:50:06 | |
The full trial will be in three months. | 0:50:06 | 0:50:08 | |
Then Carly will have to face her stalker for the first time | 0:50:08 | 0:50:11 | |
to give evidence. | 0:50:11 | 0:50:13 | |
-ALEX: -Even though it's expected, I am really frustrated. | 0:50:14 | 0:50:18 | |
-Yeah, same. -I can't believe she had the cheek | 0:50:18 | 0:50:20 | |
to get a private detective. | 0:50:20 | 0:50:22 | |
That would explain how she's got our address, though. | 0:50:22 | 0:50:25 | |
I'm in angry mode right now. | 0:50:25 | 0:50:26 | |
I'm still suffering from anxiety, I'm still scared about my future | 0:50:26 | 0:50:29 | |
but I'm pissed off with what she's done to me. | 0:50:29 | 0:50:32 | |
I've had enough of it. I'm not standing for it any longer. | 0:50:32 | 0:50:35 | |
So, just keep throwing it at me | 0:50:35 | 0:50:38 | |
because I'm not... I'm not going to budge. | 0:50:38 | 0:50:41 | |
KEYPAD TONES | 0:50:46 | 0:50:49 | |
Hello, my name's Melissa Thompson, | 0:50:49 | 0:50:51 | |
I've had a long-going stalking problem. | 0:50:51 | 0:50:53 | |
A policeman with you fingerprinted a letter... | 0:50:53 | 0:50:56 | |
There's been a breakthrough in Melissa's case. | 0:50:56 | 0:50:59 | |
Police have found fingerprints on one of the anonymous letters | 0:50:59 | 0:51:01 | |
left at her house. | 0:51:01 | 0:51:03 | |
These could reveal the identity of her stalker. | 0:51:03 | 0:51:06 | |
My ex-partner refused to have his fingerprints taken. | 0:51:07 | 0:51:10 | |
I'd like some information | 0:51:10 | 0:51:12 | |
on whereabouts we are with it right now. OK, thank you. | 0:51:12 | 0:51:15 | |
I don't have any faith in the police now | 0:51:22 | 0:51:24 | |
because they just don't seem to take it seriously. | 0:51:24 | 0:51:27 | |
When you read the whole content of the letters, | 0:51:30 | 0:51:33 | |
it mentions me taking his daughter dancing, | 0:51:33 | 0:51:37 | |
all sorts of personal things that only he could have known. | 0:51:37 | 0:51:40 | |
One paragraph jumps from, like, one nice thing to one rant, | 0:51:40 | 0:51:45 | |
to another rant. | 0:51:45 | 0:51:46 | |
"Not like I did nothing for you, | 0:51:46 | 0:51:48 | |
"more than anyone else in your past, I do believe. | 0:51:48 | 0:51:51 | |
"Do you ever regret meeting me? Wish I'd never met you." | 0:51:51 | 0:51:54 | |
And then it goes from that to like, | 0:51:54 | 0:51:57 | |
"I do hope you've got your health problems sorted out." | 0:51:57 | 0:52:00 | |
Like that policeman said, "That's saved on a computer somewhere." | 0:52:01 | 0:52:05 | |
So, if they took his computer in the first place... | 0:52:05 | 0:52:08 | |
-They would have that. -Then it would be hard evidence. | 0:52:08 | 0:52:11 | |
-It would be proof. -That would be proof, yeah... | 0:52:11 | 0:52:13 | |
..and then they could have charged him with stalking. | 0:52:15 | 0:52:17 | |
We would assign a caseworker and we could go from there. | 0:52:26 | 0:52:28 | |
Seven weeks later, the CPS granted police | 0:52:28 | 0:52:31 | |
the right to arrest Melissa's ex, | 0:52:31 | 0:52:33 | |
to force him to give his fingerprints. | 0:52:33 | 0:52:36 | |
Paladin are hoping for a match. | 0:52:36 | 0:52:38 | |
It looks like I've got a reply from the OIC for Melissa's case. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:42 | |
So, it says, "Hi, the suspect was arrested | 0:52:46 | 0:52:48 | |
"and denied sending a letter. | 0:52:48 | 0:52:49 | |
"Unfortunately, his fingerprints were not found to be on the letter. | 0:52:49 | 0:52:53 | |
"Due to no further lines of inquiry, | 0:52:53 | 0:52:54 | |
"the suspect was released with no further action. | 0:52:54 | 0:52:57 | |
"I hope this helps.' | 0:52:57 | 0:52:58 | |
It is disappointing. If there were no fingerprints on the letters | 0:53:01 | 0:53:05 | |
and they don't match his, | 0:53:05 | 0:53:07 | |
then we can't deny that fact, so we just have to... | 0:53:07 | 0:53:10 | |
The CPS and police have to work with what they've got. | 0:53:10 | 0:53:13 | |
And in this instance, there isn't anything concrete. | 0:53:13 | 0:53:17 | |
But this is the frustrating thing, | 0:53:17 | 0:53:19 | |
you know you really want to start | 0:53:19 | 0:53:22 | |
to see more prosecutions coming through. | 0:53:22 | 0:53:24 | |
Often stalkers don't even get a criminal conviction. | 0:53:24 | 0:53:27 | |
So, it's your ex-partner that's been stalking you, am I right? | 0:53:27 | 0:53:30 | |
This is why we say they steal lives and take lives. | 0:53:30 | 0:53:33 | |
You know, I have a case where it has been 17 years | 0:53:33 | 0:53:35 | |
that have been stolen of that person's life and that's not... | 0:53:35 | 0:53:39 | |
You know, how can that be fair and just? | 0:53:39 | 0:53:44 | |
And how can that person and their family | 0:53:44 | 0:53:47 | |
be expected to live with that for such a long time? | 0:53:47 | 0:53:51 | |
For Melissa and her family, | 0:54:03 | 0:54:05 | |
it's hard to accept that their case has been dropped. | 0:54:05 | 0:54:07 | |
I suppose I just feel a bit numb. | 0:54:09 | 0:54:11 | |
That I have lived this hell for 14 months | 0:54:11 | 0:54:14 | |
and he can just walk on, carry on like it's just not happened. | 0:54:14 | 0:54:19 | |
But the after-effects it'll leave on us will be a lot different. | 0:54:20 | 0:54:24 | |
This is the MP Alex Chalk who is campaigning | 0:54:40 | 0:54:42 | |
-for longer sentencing for stalkers. -All right. | 0:54:42 | 0:54:45 | |
What seems to be a pattern in so many of these cases... | 0:54:45 | 0:54:48 | |
Imre and Paladin are attending a stalking event in London | 0:54:48 | 0:54:52 | |
to raise awareness of how victims are repeatedly failed | 0:54:52 | 0:54:55 | |
by the criminal justice system. | 0:54:55 | 0:54:59 | |
The National Stalking Helpline | 0:54:59 | 0:55:01 | |
respond to calls from victims of stalking. | 0:55:01 | 0:55:03 | |
If the police were doing their job properly and more effectively, | 0:55:03 | 0:55:07 | |
then half of those people may not even come | 0:55:07 | 0:55:09 | |
to the National Stalking Helpline... | 0:55:09 | 0:55:11 | |
Imre wants to share the catalogue of police errors | 0:55:11 | 0:55:14 | |
that gave his identity away to his stalker. | 0:55:14 | 0:55:17 | |
I'm so fed up calling the police | 0:55:17 | 0:55:20 | |
and wasting my time to make those statements. | 0:55:20 | 0:55:23 | |
It's just... It's goes nowhere. | 0:55:23 | 0:55:25 | |
I think the system is not able to help me at all. | 0:55:25 | 0:55:29 | |
Ahh, what happened was she got a warning from the police, | 0:55:29 | 0:55:33 | |
and they wrote down my name on that paper, | 0:55:33 | 0:55:37 | |
on that warning notice, | 0:55:37 | 0:55:39 | |
and she found out my full name. | 0:55:39 | 0:55:41 | |
The police GAVE the stalker Imre's details | 0:55:41 | 0:55:45 | |
on the harassment warning, | 0:55:45 | 0:55:47 | |
the police inadvertently aggravated the stalking, | 0:55:47 | 0:55:51 | |
she was then able to access his phone number | 0:55:51 | 0:55:54 | |
his address, everything. | 0:55:54 | 0:55:57 | |
I think my life is ruined. | 0:55:57 | 0:55:59 | |
You know, I'm going to build up a new life. | 0:55:59 | 0:56:01 | |
You know, even I was thinking about changing my name. | 0:56:01 | 0:56:04 | |
Thank you so much, Imre. | 0:56:04 | 0:56:06 | |
We really hope that today is the start of a process | 0:56:06 | 0:56:09 | |
where we can take stalking seriously, | 0:56:09 | 0:56:11 | |
that we change attitudes to stalking... | 0:56:11 | 0:56:14 | |
I need to deal with this. | 0:56:21 | 0:56:24 | |
I already have some plans for the future | 0:56:24 | 0:56:28 | |
and I'm definitely going to reach them | 0:56:28 | 0:56:33 | |
because I know that I'll be safe again... | 0:56:33 | 0:56:35 | |
..and my life will be much, much better. | 0:56:37 | 0:56:40 | |
For the last four days, | 0:56:49 | 0:56:51 | |
the jury in Poppy Carter's trial | 0:56:51 | 0:56:54 | |
has been listening to the evidence. | 0:56:54 | 0:56:56 | |
Their verdict is expected tomorrow. | 0:56:56 | 0:56:58 | |
It's been a horrible week. | 0:56:59 | 0:57:01 | |
What if she doesn't get convicted? | 0:57:07 | 0:57:09 | |
I am hopeful, but, obviously, it's in the hands of the jury. | 0:57:11 | 0:57:14 | |
They have to decide it now. | 0:57:14 | 0:57:15 | |
Did you look at her? | 0:57:22 | 0:57:24 | |
I could see her in the corner of my eye, | 0:57:25 | 0:57:28 | |
and then I looked at her yesterday. | 0:57:28 | 0:57:30 | |
It's weird... It's weird after all this time, that... | 0:57:31 | 0:57:34 | |
kind of mask was unveiled | 0:57:34 | 0:57:37 | |
and there she is... | 0:57:37 | 0:57:38 | |
I was expecting this monster. | 0:57:41 | 0:57:43 | |
But you know, if you walk past her in the street, | 0:57:45 | 0:57:48 | |
-you wouldn't think that she's done all this, would you? -No. | 0:57:48 | 0:57:51 | |
-You wouldn't think it. -No, you can't spot a stalker. | 0:57:51 | 0:57:54 | |
-WOMAN: -He was constantly on my e-mail, constantly on my Facebook, | 0:58:35 | 0:58:38 | |
trying to meet with me. | 0:58:38 | 0:58:40 | |
Are you afraid that he might kill the children? | 0:58:40 | 0:58:42 | |
-WOMAN: -I can't protect myself. I don't know what he'll do next. | 0:58:44 | 0:58:47 |