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This programme contains some strong language and scenes which some viewers may find disturbing. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:06 | |
-VOICE RECORDING: -This is Richard. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:07 | |
Just to let you know I'm still remanded in prison. | 0:00:07 | 0:00:09 | |
If you still want to keep in touch, | 0:00:09 | 0:00:11 | |
then, just send me a letter some time. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:13 | |
This is the story of how a teenage gap-year student | 0:00:15 | 0:00:19 | |
became one of Britain's worst ever paedophiles. | 0:00:19 | 0:00:22 | |
For nearly a decade, Richard Huckle raped, assaulted and abused | 0:00:32 | 0:00:36 | |
hundreds of children in Asia. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:39 | |
He was extremely dangerous. He was indiscriminate. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:42 | |
Girls, boys, six months to 13 years of age. | 0:00:42 | 0:00:46 | |
On the dark web, he wrote a manual for paedophiles, | 0:00:47 | 0:00:51 | |
and shared tens of thousands of vile images of his crimes. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:55 | |
I just thought of all the children, and it broke my heart | 0:00:57 | 0:01:01 | |
that I had been a part of putting him in that position. | 0:01:01 | 0:01:06 | |
Posing as a Christian, he deliberately targeted | 0:01:07 | 0:01:10 | |
the poorest and most vulnerable victims. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:13 | |
I can say, without any doubt, that the church was his hunting ground. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:19 | |
I've spent eight months investigating | 0:01:19 | 0:01:21 | |
how Huckle got away with it for so long, | 0:01:21 | 0:01:24 | |
and whether he should have been caught earlier. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:27 | |
I want to ask you why you didn't tell me | 0:01:27 | 0:01:29 | |
-about your relationship with Richard Huckle? -OK. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:33 | |
I've followed Huckle's trail | 0:01:33 | 0:01:35 | |
to countries where no-one has investigated before, | 0:01:35 | 0:01:38 | |
and uncovered undetected crimes. | 0:01:38 | 0:01:41 | |
When I stood in front of those two little girls, | 0:01:41 | 0:01:44 | |
it didn't feel good to be right. | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
It didn't feel good at all. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
And I've discovered Huckle may also have abused children in Britain. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:55 | |
He was absolutely prolific. | 0:01:56 | 0:01:58 | |
I would be shocked if there were no victims of his in this country. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:02 | |
In 2005, a 19-year-old from suburban Kent | 0:02:19 | 0:02:22 | |
arrived at this jungle park in Malaysia. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
For Richard Huckle, it was the start of his gap year. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:31 | |
Come on. | 0:02:33 | 0:02:34 | |
This is just a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. | 0:02:37 | 0:02:41 | |
I mean, this is what gap-year travel is all about. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
It's such a privilege. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:52 | |
And to think that they could come here and work on a daily basis | 0:02:53 | 0:02:57 | |
is amazing. | 0:02:57 | 0:02:59 | |
Richard Huckle was part of a group of British students | 0:03:02 | 0:03:04 | |
who'd come to do voluntary work. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:06 | |
-Were they good workers? -Yeah, they were good. -Were they? | 0:03:06 | 0:03:10 | |
They had to clean the elephant poo. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:12 | |
It's not a pretty job! | 0:03:12 | 0:03:13 | |
Yah! | 0:03:14 | 0:03:16 | |
The students came here to decide if they wanted to volunteer | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
in conservation projects like this one. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:22 | |
But Richard Huckle wasn't interested | 0:03:26 | 0:03:27 | |
in working with animals in the jungle. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:30 | |
He knew the kind of voluntary work he wanted to do, | 0:03:33 | 0:03:36 | |
in Malaysia's capital Kuala Lumpur. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:39 | |
-This is where you used to bring the gappers? -Yeah. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
-So, did you bring Huckle here? -Yes, this is where Huckle came. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:48 | |
Ann Jones worked for World Challenge, | 0:03:50 | 0:03:52 | |
the organisation in charge of arranging Huckle's gap year. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:55 | |
I spent a lot of my time organising the placements | 0:03:58 | 0:04:00 | |
where they were going to. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:03 | |
He wanted to go to an orphanage, | 0:04:03 | 0:04:05 | |
but the orphanage that we had selected was unable to take them. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:10 | |
What was your first impression of Huckle? | 0:04:12 | 0:04:14 | |
I didn't like him. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
There was just something about him that made | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end, | 0:04:19 | 0:04:22 | |
and I couldn't put a finger on it. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:23 | |
He always looked dishevelled, he always looked dirty, | 0:04:23 | 0:04:30 | |
and he had just a really bad attitude. | 0:04:30 | 0:04:35 | |
I actually felt he was going to be trouble from the beginning, | 0:04:35 | 0:04:39 | |
and he was. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:41 | |
Ann placed Huckle and another student in a school. | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
His job was to help teach English to young children. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:52 | |
But, within weeks, Huckle was causing problems. | 0:04:52 | 0:04:56 | |
He had a blog that he was posting incredibly disrespectful remarks | 0:04:57 | 0:05:02 | |
about one of the other gap challengers. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:05 | |
He was making very disparaging remarks about World Challenge, | 0:05:05 | 0:05:12 | |
and he was none too kind about some of the locals either. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:16 | |
Ann found Huckle a new placement at a church. | 0:05:17 | 0:05:21 | |
Huckle had told everyone he was a committed Christian. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:26 | |
It seemed like the perfect fit. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:29 | |
They perceived him to be that little lost boy who needed to be nurtured | 0:05:30 | 0:05:36 | |
and, hopefully, their nurturing would change him | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
and give him the confidence to develop and grow. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:43 | |
It's really tough to find out anything about Huckle. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:06 | |
The police have had all his social media accounts pulled down, | 0:06:06 | 0:06:10 | |
but I've discovered Huckle also kept a diary. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:13 | |
And I've managed to get my hands on some of it. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:17 | |
In the diary, Huckle writes about his travels around Asia | 0:06:18 | 0:06:22 | |
and everyone he meets. | 0:06:22 | 0:06:24 | |
In October 2005, Huckle started work as a Sunday school teacher | 0:06:34 | 0:06:38 | |
at the church where he'd been placed. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:41 | |
He immediately began writing disturbing comments | 0:06:41 | 0:06:44 | |
about his new pupils in his diary. | 0:06:44 | 0:06:47 | |
He went into this church, | 0:07:07 | 0:07:09 | |
and I can say, without any doubt, | 0:07:09 | 0:07:11 | |
that the church was his hunting ground. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:15 | |
Mahi was the first local journalist | 0:07:15 | 0:07:17 | |
to investigate Huckle's time at this church. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:20 | |
He used the church, because those who turned up there | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
were very poor people. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:27 | |
When you are poor, it feels good when you are seen around | 0:07:27 | 0:07:30 | |
with a white guy. | 0:07:30 | 0:07:32 | |
It's almost like an up to your social status, | 0:07:32 | 0:07:34 | |
and that is exactly what Huckle capitalised on. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:38 | |
Huckle exploited his western status | 0:07:40 | 0:07:42 | |
to groom one particular three-year-old girl | 0:07:42 | 0:07:45 | |
who attended the church with her family. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:48 | |
So, this is actually the report that you were involved in. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:50 | |
Mahi recorded an interview with this girl many years later. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:55 | |
Her identity was disguised to protect her. | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
-RECORDING: -'I met him in a church. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:01 | |
'He started talking to my mother there.' | 0:08:01 | 0:08:04 | |
-That's your voice. -Yeah, that's my voice. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:07 | |
-RECORDING: -'And then he started coming to the house to talk to her.' | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
-RECORDING: -He started taking photos of me | 0:08:16 | 0:08:18 | |
from the time I was three years old. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
He took videos of me naked. I was scared and couldn't do anything. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:26 | |
He showed me photos of myself. | 0:08:27 | 0:08:29 | |
They were photos that showed nude bodies, that kind of photos. | 0:08:30 | 0:08:34 | |
This child was raped repeatedly by Huckle. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
Mahi says the girl told her family about Huckle's abuse. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:47 | |
She told me that she had actually told her father about it. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
So her father knew? | 0:08:49 | 0:08:51 | |
Her father knew about it. | 0:08:51 | 0:08:53 | |
Now, her father told her to just shut up. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:55 | |
And her grandmother, when I confronted her, | 0:08:55 | 0:08:59 | |
just could not give me a straight answer. | 0:08:59 | 0:09:02 | |
So, this is a child who must have felt really betrayed. | 0:09:02 | 0:09:06 | |
My first question when I came to this country is, | 0:09:14 | 0:09:17 | |
could Huckle have been stopped? | 0:09:17 | 0:09:18 | |
Well, I've just found out | 0:09:18 | 0:09:20 | |
he definitely could have been stopped in his tracks, | 0:09:20 | 0:09:22 | |
if someone had listened to that child. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
It's quite clear that that little child knew | 0:09:28 | 0:09:33 | |
what Huckle was doing was wrong... | 0:09:33 | 0:09:35 | |
..and so she told her family. | 0:09:36 | 0:09:39 | |
And when they did nothing... | 0:09:41 | 0:09:43 | |
..I just can't imagine how she must have felt. | 0:09:44 | 0:09:47 | |
Because where else would she go to for help, | 0:09:51 | 0:09:53 | |
if it wasn't to her family? | 0:09:53 | 0:09:55 | |
When Huckle realised he could groom children with impunity, | 0:10:05 | 0:10:09 | |
he stayed in Malaysia beyond his gap year. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:12 | |
He based himself in the capital, | 0:10:18 | 0:10:20 | |
and gained access to children | 0:10:20 | 0:10:22 | |
by working as an English teacher for schools, orphanages and families. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:28 | |
Huckle raped and assaulted children of all ages, | 0:10:30 | 0:10:34 | |
from babies to young teenagers. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:36 | |
He was a predator, constantly on the hunt. | 0:10:36 | 0:10:40 | |
One of Huckle's favourite hunting grounds was Port Dickson, | 0:10:52 | 0:10:55 | |
just outside the capital. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:57 | |
It's a perfect spot for families to get away from the city. | 0:10:58 | 0:11:02 | |
We know Huckle came to this beach resort regularly. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:09 | |
And, from his diary, we've learned that he had | 0:11:09 | 0:11:11 | |
a very particular grooming strategy. | 0:11:11 | 0:11:13 | |
He used to take photos of the kids that he met on the beach, | 0:11:13 | 0:11:17 | |
and then he would offer them the prints of the photos | 0:11:17 | 0:11:20 | |
to try and win their confidence and gain their trust. | 0:11:20 | 0:11:23 | |
Huckle gave free English tuition to these kids | 0:11:28 | 0:11:32 | |
and, in return, their parents offered him hospitality, meals, | 0:11:32 | 0:11:37 | |
and sometimes a bed for the night. | 0:11:37 | 0:11:39 | |
The entries in Huckle's diary do not explicitly reveal his crimes. | 0:12:00 | 0:12:05 | |
But, at the same time, he was posting graphic material anonymously | 0:12:07 | 0:12:10 | |
on the dark web. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:12 | |
On secret paedophile websites, | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
he uploaded thousands of photographs and videos | 0:12:18 | 0:12:20 | |
of the abuse he was committing. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:23 | |
He made sickening boasts about his crimes | 0:12:37 | 0:12:39 | |
to other paedophiles on the dark web. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:42 | |
Huckle was extraordinarily prolific on the dark web. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:05 | |
He recorded the names of nearly 200 of his victims there. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:10 | |
I want to know if any of his teaching colleagues | 0:13:10 | 0:13:13 | |
were ever suspicious about his behaviour. | 0:13:13 | 0:13:16 | |
-So, is that your Celta qualification? -That's it. | 0:13:16 | 0:13:20 | |
-Ha. -That's the bit of paper. | 0:13:20 | 0:13:21 | |
Awarded by the British Council, Kuala Lumpur, | 0:13:21 | 0:13:24 | |
and you passed. | 0:13:24 | 0:13:25 | |
Sam did an English language teaching course with Huckle in Malaysia. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:30 | |
This is Huckle in a film promoting the course at the time. | 0:13:32 | 0:13:36 | |
-Is that where you first met Richard, then, was he in your group? -Yep. | 0:13:39 | 0:13:42 | |
The very first day I met him was the very first day of the course. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:45 | |
What was your first impression of Richard? | 0:13:45 | 0:13:47 | |
Quiet, mild-mannered, subdued, laid-back guy. | 0:13:47 | 0:13:52 | |
Sam remembers Huckle as a loner who didn't socialise. | 0:13:52 | 0:13:56 | |
He believed Huckle was motivated by a desire to help local children. | 0:13:57 | 0:14:01 | |
I only ever saw him with one child. | 0:14:02 | 0:14:04 | |
He brought the girl to me and my partner's place. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:06 | |
We hung out, we went to the pool, we had food together, | 0:14:06 | 0:14:10 | |
and then we went all the way back into the inner-city, | 0:14:10 | 0:14:13 | |
or the suburbs to get home and meet the mum and the home and everything. | 0:14:13 | 0:14:17 | |
So, for me it was quite natural, it felt OK, | 0:14:17 | 0:14:21 | |
because here's this guy going out of his way, | 0:14:21 | 0:14:23 | |
looking after this young kid. | 0:14:23 | 0:14:24 | |
The mum can't do it, she's working, | 0:14:24 | 0:14:26 | |
and I felt it was quite unselfish, you know, to take care of a child. | 0:14:26 | 0:14:30 | |
And it seemed normal, the rapport between them was fine, | 0:14:30 | 0:14:34 | |
there was nothing to me that was unsettling | 0:14:34 | 0:14:37 | |
or made me uncomfortable at all. | 0:14:37 | 0:14:39 | |
From the research that we've done, | 0:14:39 | 0:14:41 | |
it would look to me like that was one of Huckle's victims | 0:14:41 | 0:14:45 | |
that he sexually abused over a period of time. | 0:14:45 | 0:14:50 | |
How do you feel about that, | 0:14:50 | 0:14:52 | |
knowing that that child went through that, now? | 0:14:52 | 0:14:55 | |
Um. Sick, you know, really... | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
I'm sort of angry at myself that I didn't see this, | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
why didn't I know this? | 0:15:00 | 0:15:02 | |
But it just didn't appear that way at all. But it feels awful. | 0:15:02 | 0:15:06 | |
And I think, how could this happen? | 0:15:06 | 0:15:10 | |
Why... | 0:15:10 | 0:15:11 | |
You almost think like victims, say, "Oh, I'm a victim here," | 0:15:11 | 0:15:13 | |
sort of thing. And it's just shocking, it's like you don't... | 0:15:13 | 0:15:16 | |
There's no signs of abuse because you don't see someone hurting. | 0:15:16 | 0:15:21 | |
Not only did Sam meet the victims, but he met the mother. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
Huckle's totally ingratiated into the family. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
I mean, how does a white Westerner ingratiate himself so much into a | 0:15:42 | 0:15:46 | |
family that he can just bring strangers in | 0:15:46 | 0:15:49 | |
and take their little girl out for, like, a whole day, | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
without having to be really accountable for it? | 0:15:52 | 0:15:55 | |
You know, to look Sam and other people in the eye every day, | 0:15:55 | 0:16:00 | |
and the mother of those kids, | 0:16:00 | 0:16:02 | |
and to know what you're actually physically doing, | 0:16:02 | 0:16:05 | |
and just to continue doing it, takes a real... | 0:16:05 | 0:16:09 | |
..takes a real, kind of, sick individual, to be honest. | 0:16:12 | 0:16:15 | |
Huckle also escaped detection by deliberately targeting some of | 0:16:29 | 0:16:32 | |
the most vulnerable children in Malaysia. | 0:16:32 | 0:16:35 | |
He used to take very poor children | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
on trips to rich parts of the capital, like this. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:43 | |
There's no way that the kids that Huckle brought here weren't impressed, | 0:16:45 | 0:16:48 | |
I'm impressed. I could stand and look at this all night. | 0:16:48 | 0:16:51 | |
On the dark web, | 0:16:53 | 0:16:55 | |
Huckle boasted about the lowly social status of his victims. | 0:16:55 | 0:16:59 | |
He said poor kids were easier to abuse than rich Western ones. | 0:17:09 | 0:17:14 | |
He moved into areas like this deliberately | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
to get access to poor kids. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:21 | |
Huckle exploited the reluctance | 0:17:41 | 0:17:42 | |
to report child sexual abuse in Malaysia. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:46 | |
People from the areas where he | 0:17:46 | 0:17:48 | |
operated are still not willing to talk about him. | 0:17:48 | 0:17:51 | |
I'm sure you rue the day | 0:17:52 | 0:17:54 | |
-that Richard Huckle walked into your village. -Hmm. | 0:17:54 | 0:17:57 | |
Eventually I managed to persuade one local politician to speak to me, | 0:17:57 | 0:18:02 | |
on condition we disguised his face. | 0:18:02 | 0:18:04 | |
Huckle abused children from his village for several years, | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
but he said he only heard about this when British police visited in 2016. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:24 | |
So, the UK police told you that there were specific families | 0:18:24 | 0:18:28 | |
in the village that had been affected, right? | 0:18:28 | 0:18:31 | |
Right. You went to those families? | 0:18:31 | 0:18:34 | |
What did you ask them? | 0:18:34 | 0:18:36 | |
Do you believe that? | 0:18:51 | 0:18:53 | |
That's my question to you. | 0:18:56 | 0:18:58 | |
I want you to tell me if you think | 0:19:04 | 0:19:06 | |
children in your village were abused. | 0:19:06 | 0:19:10 | |
Were they abused? | 0:19:10 | 0:19:11 | |
Have you done anything to change that belief? | 0:19:17 | 0:19:19 | |
Have you tried to change that belief, | 0:19:19 | 0:19:21 | |
to convince these people that it did happen and that they need to be more | 0:19:21 | 0:19:25 | |
careful in the future? | 0:19:25 | 0:19:27 | |
But you can. | 0:19:27 | 0:19:28 | |
What is more important, the protection of the community | 0:19:33 | 0:19:37 | |
or the help for the victims? | 0:19:37 | 0:19:39 | |
They're your children. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:48 | |
They're the next generation of your community. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
That man represents a community that's in complete denial. | 0:20:10 | 0:20:14 | |
And what hope have the victims got | 0:20:14 | 0:20:16 | |
if the whole community won't accept that it happened? | 0:20:16 | 0:20:19 | |
There's children that Huckle abused that are not receiving one iota of | 0:20:21 | 0:20:26 | |
help because there's a community who refuse to accept it happened. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:30 | |
And that's the bottom line in this, | 0:20:30 | 0:20:32 | |
and that's just not good enough. | 0:20:32 | 0:20:34 | |
It's just not good enough. | 0:20:37 | 0:20:39 | |
The longer I spend here, | 0:20:47 | 0:20:49 | |
the easier it is to understand | 0:20:49 | 0:20:51 | |
how Huckle escaped being caught for so long. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
But there's one man I especially want to ask about warning signs. | 0:20:54 | 0:20:59 | |
The pastor of the church where Huckle was a Sunday school teacher | 0:20:59 | 0:21:03 | |
for several years. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:05 | |
Huckle mentions him and his church repeatedly in his diary. | 0:21:05 | 0:21:09 | |
But the pastor has publicly | 0:21:09 | 0:21:10 | |
distanced himself from Huckle in the local press. | 0:21:10 | 0:21:13 | |
I've just met the pastor and spoken to him, | 0:21:16 | 0:21:18 | |
and he's played down | 0:21:18 | 0:21:19 | |
Huckle's connections to both him and the church. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:23 | |
He told me Huckle had never been at a Sunday School teacher at the church. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:27 | |
He'd never got access to the kids on his own, | 0:21:27 | 0:21:29 | |
and that nobody in the church and the congregation had any problem | 0:21:29 | 0:21:32 | |
with Huckle's behaviour around children. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:35 | |
It definitely feels a very affluent city. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:49 | |
Yeah. Very expensive. | 0:21:49 | 0:21:51 | |
I wanted to put the pastor's questionable claims to Ann, | 0:21:51 | 0:21:55 | |
the lady who organised Huckle's gap year and initially placed him in | 0:21:55 | 0:21:59 | |
the pastor's church. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:00 | |
I've spoken to the pastor in charge of the church, | 0:22:02 | 0:22:05 | |
and he told me that Huckle only | 0:22:05 | 0:22:07 | |
visited the church on a number of occasions. Is that true? | 0:22:07 | 0:22:10 | |
I don't believe that's true at all. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
Why would you allow someone | 0:22:13 | 0:22:17 | |
who visits occasionally | 0:22:17 | 0:22:21 | |
to take your Sunday school students? | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
Why would you allow those children to be placed in the hands of someone | 0:22:25 | 0:22:31 | |
you didn't know? | 0:22:31 | 0:22:33 | |
Then, Ann makes a remarkable revelation. | 0:22:33 | 0:22:37 | |
Very soon after Huckle was placed there, | 0:22:38 | 0:22:42 | |
we had a complaint from a parent about Huckle smacking... | 0:22:42 | 0:22:48 | |
..their child. | 0:22:49 | 0:22:51 | |
-He smacked them? -I believe "He was smacking children", | 0:22:51 | 0:22:54 | |
was the phrase that was used, | 0:22:54 | 0:22:57 | |
and that he was also manhandling them out of the classroom, | 0:22:57 | 0:23:02 | |
physically removing them. | 0:23:02 | 0:23:04 | |
And he also was, I guess, | 0:23:04 | 0:23:09 | |
a little violent towards some of them. | 0:23:09 | 0:23:12 | |
For me in my head, that's a massive warning sign. | 0:23:12 | 0:23:16 | |
-So, what did you do? -There was no way Huckle could continue. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:21 | |
I met with one of the elders, the pastor, and his wife. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:27 | |
Their request was that he be removed. | 0:23:27 | 0:23:31 | |
We set up a meeting, and Huckle was called into the meeting. | 0:23:31 | 0:23:36 | |
I asked him to leave the Gap Challenge programme | 0:23:36 | 0:23:39 | |
and to pack his bags, | 0:23:39 | 0:23:41 | |
and to remove himself from the area, | 0:23:41 | 0:23:44 | |
and to organise an immediate flight home to the UK. | 0:23:44 | 0:23:48 | |
Huckle's diary confirmed that he was fired from his job at the church and | 0:23:54 | 0:23:58 | |
removed from the gap year programme | 0:23:58 | 0:24:00 | |
very soon after arriving in Malaysia. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:02 | |
But the diary also reveals that, just one week later, | 0:24:04 | 0:24:08 | |
the church independently gave Huckle his job back. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:11 | |
So, Huckle was placed back with children? | 0:24:13 | 0:24:16 | |
Yes, he was. Huckle was placed in charge by the very people who had | 0:24:16 | 0:24:21 | |
asked me to remove him. | 0:24:21 | 0:24:24 | |
Who was in that room when you had the meeting to remove Huckle from | 0:24:25 | 0:24:30 | |
-his placement? -One of the elders, and the pastor and his wife. | 0:24:30 | 0:24:35 | |
And who reinstated Huckle into the church? | 0:24:35 | 0:24:38 | |
That same elder, and that particular pastor and his wife. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:44 | |
How do you feel about that? | 0:24:44 | 0:24:46 | |
Incredibly angry, very upset, | 0:24:47 | 0:24:50 | |
and I, in many ways, | 0:24:50 | 0:24:53 | |
feel responsible for those children. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:55 | |
I do. And I can't not. | 0:24:55 | 0:24:58 | |
What more could you have done? | 0:25:01 | 0:25:03 | |
I don't know, but I wish I could think of something. | 0:25:06 | 0:25:08 | |
I've talked to that pastor. | 0:25:22 | 0:25:24 | |
He told me Huckle was a casual visitor to the church. | 0:25:24 | 0:25:27 | |
That's completely different to what Ann has just said. | 0:25:29 | 0:25:32 | |
Huckle was dismissed for smacking a child, and he never told me that. | 0:25:33 | 0:25:38 | |
You have to ask yourself why he's not telling me | 0:25:38 | 0:25:41 | |
the full truth. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:42 | |
Good morning, pastor, it's Bronagh Munro from the BBC. | 0:25:53 | 0:25:56 | |
Pastor, I was hoping to grab a conversation with you. | 0:25:56 | 0:25:59 | |
I know we spoke before, but there's been a few issues that have come up | 0:25:59 | 0:26:03 | |
that I'd like to chat to you about. I hope you'll give me a call. | 0:26:03 | 0:26:06 | |
I look forward to speaking to you. Thanks. Bye-bye. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:08 | |
I need to talk to him about some of the things he told me because we now | 0:26:10 | 0:26:13 | |
know them not to be accurate. | 0:26:13 | 0:26:15 | |
So, either he arranges the meeting, or we just have to go and find him. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:21 | |
The pastor messages me | 0:26:30 | 0:26:32 | |
to say he stands by everything he told me before. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:36 | |
It looks like he doesn't want to speak to me again. | 0:26:36 | 0:26:38 | |
I've just discovered there's a child protection conference on in | 0:26:46 | 0:26:50 | |
the city, and we've come down and they've allowed us to come inside | 0:26:50 | 0:26:53 | |
and have a look around. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:55 | |
This is where we have initial travelling sex offenders... | 0:26:57 | 0:27:01 | |
All the key characters that you'd want to speak to are here. | 0:27:01 | 0:27:05 | |
And one of the officials has just told me that they think the key | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
reason for this conference is Huckle. | 0:27:08 | 0:27:10 | |
I've been trying for months to interview the Malaysian police. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:19 | |
I want to ask them what could have been done to catch Huckle earlier. | 0:27:19 | 0:27:23 | |
We're making a film in and around | 0:27:23 | 0:27:25 | |
paedophilia and western offenders coming to countries like Malaysia. | 0:27:25 | 0:27:30 | |
And I wanted to ask you some questions about Richard Huckle, | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
and what happened... | 0:27:33 | 0:27:35 | |
Oh, that Richard Huckle case... | 0:27:35 | 0:27:38 | |
..not in this seminar. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:40 | |
I'm forbidden to answer that because I think it is better for you | 0:27:40 | 0:27:44 | |
to write into my department to ask about that. | 0:27:44 | 0:27:47 | |
I'm very, very sorry. | 0:27:47 | 0:27:49 | |
-No, no... -It's not that I don't want to cooperate with you. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:52 | |
They're holding a whole conference here | 0:27:52 | 0:27:54 | |
about sexual offences in their country | 0:27:54 | 0:27:57 | |
and they won't talk to me about Richard Huckle. | 0:27:57 | 0:28:01 | |
He's probably one of the country's biggest sex offenders to date. | 0:28:01 | 0:28:05 | |
He's convicted. | 0:28:05 | 0:28:06 | |
And it's still a taboo subject. | 0:28:08 | 0:28:10 | |
But then, among the dignitaries... | 0:28:18 | 0:28:20 | |
..I spot the one man I really want to speak to. | 0:28:22 | 0:28:25 | |
The pastor that was in charge of the church that Huckle worked in is now | 0:28:27 | 0:28:32 | |
standing talking to the unit | 0:28:32 | 0:28:34 | |
that deals with child sexual abuse in Malaysia. | 0:28:34 | 0:28:37 | |
This is the guy who won't talk to me. | 0:28:37 | 0:28:40 | |
I certainly have a few question for this guy. | 0:28:41 | 0:28:43 | |
Sir, how are you doing? | 0:28:48 | 0:28:50 | |
-How are you doing? You've met me before. -Oh! | 0:28:50 | 0:28:53 | |
OK, OK, good, good. | 0:28:53 | 0:28:54 | |
Can I talk to you for a few minutes, sir? | 0:28:54 | 0:28:56 | |
I want to ask you why you didn't tell me about your relationship with | 0:28:56 | 0:29:00 | |
Richard Huckle? | 0:29:00 | 0:29:02 | |
Would you like to tell me what the extent of your relationship with | 0:29:02 | 0:29:05 | |
Richard Huckle was? | 0:29:05 | 0:29:07 | |
And I would also like to ask you, sir, | 0:29:07 | 0:29:11 | |
you told me that Richard Huckle | 0:29:11 | 0:29:12 | |
didn't work in your church at the Sunday school. | 0:29:12 | 0:29:16 | |
Sir, that's not a reply. | 0:29:18 | 0:29:20 | |
I asked you questions. | 0:29:20 | 0:29:22 | |
Why did you not tell me that Richard Huckle taught in the Sunday school? | 0:29:23 | 0:29:28 | |
Sir, we've been told by the person who ran the Gap Year Challenge that | 0:29:32 | 0:29:37 | |
-Huckle was placed in your church as part of that challenge. -Ah! | 0:29:37 | 0:29:41 | |
And... let me finish, pastor. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:44 | |
..and that Huckle was removed from his position in the church | 0:29:44 | 0:29:49 | |
and the Challenge because he smacked a child. | 0:29:49 | 0:29:51 | |
In fact, he smacked children. | 0:29:51 | 0:29:53 | |
You told me, when I spoke to you, | 0:29:55 | 0:29:58 | |
that you had never had any concerns | 0:29:58 | 0:30:00 | |
raised to you about Huckle's behaviour. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:04 | |
Pastor, did you take part in a meeting | 0:30:04 | 0:30:07 | |
where Huckle's future in your church was discussed? | 0:30:07 | 0:30:11 | |
Did that happen? | 0:30:11 | 0:30:13 | |
We've been told you were there. | 0:30:18 | 0:30:20 | |
Are you saying that that's not true? | 0:30:24 | 0:30:27 | |
You don't remember, or it didn't happen? | 0:30:30 | 0:30:33 | |
OK. Tell me why you didn't tell me the full extent of your relationship | 0:30:39 | 0:30:43 | |
with Richard? | 0:30:43 | 0:30:45 | |
You didn't think it was relevant to our film? | 0:30:45 | 0:30:48 | |
No, no, sorry, I don't accept that, actually. | 0:30:55 | 0:30:59 | |
It's not something that would slip your memory. | 0:30:59 | 0:31:01 | |
I find that hard to believe, sir. | 0:31:01 | 0:31:04 | |
Yeah, yeah. | 0:31:06 | 0:31:07 | |
Honestly, I don't know who's more rattled - | 0:31:07 | 0:31:10 | |
him or I. Because I didn't expect to bump into him like that. | 0:31:10 | 0:31:17 | |
And still I feel that he's almost afraid to admit that Huckle | 0:31:17 | 0:31:21 | |
was in his life. | 0:31:21 | 0:31:23 | |
And that's very sad when you're standing in a place like this, | 0:31:23 | 0:31:26 | |
where everybody is calling for transparency to help the victims. | 0:31:26 | 0:31:30 | |
Most of the Malaysian children Huckle abused have been left | 0:31:38 | 0:31:41 | |
without any counselling or help. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:43 | |
That's unlikely to change until people here come to terms | 0:31:45 | 0:31:49 | |
with the magnitude of his crimes. | 0:31:49 | 0:31:51 | |
But Huckle didn't only destroy lives in Malaysia. | 0:31:57 | 0:32:01 | |
He also travelled to Cambodia - | 0:32:01 | 0:32:04 | |
a notorious magnet for western sex tourists and paedophiles. | 0:32:04 | 0:32:08 | |
Wow. There's so many tiny, young girls. | 0:32:12 | 0:32:16 | |
I've come to the capital, Phnom Penh, | 0:32:16 | 0:32:18 | |
to investigate why it was so easy for Huckle to commit abuse here. | 0:32:18 | 0:32:21 | |
Have you partaken in a little bit of sex tourism? | 0:32:24 | 0:32:28 | |
Not too much? Just a little? | 0:32:28 | 0:32:30 | |
A little. | 0:32:30 | 0:32:32 | |
Don't touch the camera, now, that's rude, please. | 0:32:32 | 0:32:36 | |
Can I take this one? Can I take two? | 0:32:44 | 0:32:47 | |
-Three? -Yes. | 0:32:47 | 0:32:50 | |
Huckle was drawn to a city where vulnerable and poor children | 0:32:50 | 0:32:53 | |
are readily accessible. | 0:32:53 | 0:32:55 | |
You've been selling in the street ten years? What age did you start? | 0:32:59 | 0:33:03 | |
Wow. | 0:33:06 | 0:33:08 | |
Huckle would also have known about a Cambodian custom called Homestays. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:17 | |
Backpackers and tourists on a budget | 0:33:20 | 0:33:22 | |
pay to sleep in the houses of locals. | 0:33:22 | 0:33:25 | |
In his diary, Huckle records staying with families. | 0:33:28 | 0:33:32 | |
When Huckle came here, he'd organised to stay | 0:33:46 | 0:33:49 | |
with a local family. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:51 | |
Half of his trip he spent with this family. | 0:33:51 | 0:33:54 | |
You get access to the family, you get access to the children. | 0:33:54 | 0:33:57 | |
I want to get a sense of how easy it would have been for Huckle | 0:34:04 | 0:34:07 | |
to groom his host's children. | 0:34:07 | 0:34:09 | |
GIGGLING | 0:34:09 | 0:34:11 | |
Woo! Who's next? | 0:34:12 | 0:34:15 | |
Huckle wasn't put up in this village, | 0:34:15 | 0:34:17 | |
but it's typical of the kind of place western tourists stay. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:21 | |
I think not, just the family, but the whole of the village has come | 0:34:21 | 0:34:25 | |
into the yard to see who we are, | 0:34:25 | 0:34:28 | |
and I think just to have a look at us because we're so different. | 0:34:28 | 0:34:31 | |
Sarun charges tourists less than 4 a night to stay with her family. | 0:34:46 | 0:34:51 | |
-They sleep in this room? -Yeah. | 0:34:51 | 0:34:54 | |
It's very pretty. I like the colours! | 0:34:56 | 0:35:00 | |
I would take the one with the most pink. | 0:35:00 | 0:35:03 | |
Take the prettiest one. | 0:35:03 | 0:35:05 | |
Sarun's children normally sleep on the same floor as the guests, | 0:35:09 | 0:35:13 | |
and she sleeps downstairs. | 0:35:13 | 0:35:16 | |
Would it surprise you that a western man came to Cambodia and, | 0:35:17 | 0:35:22 | |
while he was visiting as a tourist, | 0:35:22 | 0:35:25 | |
he took advantage of local children? | 0:35:25 | 0:35:29 | |
This man, in particular, made the family like him, | 0:35:36 | 0:35:40 | |
in order to get access to the children. | 0:35:40 | 0:35:44 | |
Would that surprise you? | 0:35:44 | 0:35:46 | |
This woman had to sell all her land to pay her husband's medical bill. | 0:35:59 | 0:36:05 | |
And then, after that, she had to rely on people coming here, | 0:36:06 | 0:36:10 | |
to feed her family. | 0:36:10 | 0:36:12 | |
Until I mentioned it to her, it never even occurred to her | 0:36:13 | 0:36:16 | |
that someone could come into her family as a tourist, | 0:36:16 | 0:36:19 | |
and be there solely to take advantage of the kids, | 0:36:19 | 0:36:22 | |
and not just the hospitality. | 0:36:22 | 0:36:24 | |
Huckle ruthlessly exploited the innocence of Cambodian families. | 0:36:47 | 0:36:52 | |
When you read his diary, he says the little girl seemed quite frightened | 0:36:52 | 0:36:57 | |
of him. | 0:36:57 | 0:36:59 | |
As he continues on his trip, day four, day five, | 0:37:00 | 0:37:03 | |
he says he got to hold the little girl. | 0:37:03 | 0:37:07 | |
So, he was winning her over. | 0:37:07 | 0:37:09 | |
Huckle sexually assaulted this two-year-old girl, | 0:37:20 | 0:37:23 | |
and posted photographs of this on the dark web. | 0:37:23 | 0:37:27 | |
He easily slipped out of Cambodia, | 0:37:27 | 0:37:30 | |
and his abuse didn't come to light until years later. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
But Huckle visited another country in Asia, | 0:37:51 | 0:37:53 | |
where no crime of his has ever been detected before. | 0:37:53 | 0:37:56 | |
I know Huckle came to India at least four times. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:07 | |
I can't see any sign of a British or Indian police investigation. | 0:38:07 | 0:38:12 | |
But I think there's a very real possibility | 0:38:12 | 0:38:14 | |
Huckle committed abuse here. | 0:38:14 | 0:38:16 | |
In India, Huckle played up his Christian faith to gain access | 0:38:27 | 0:38:31 | |
to orphanages run by churches. | 0:38:31 | 0:38:33 | |
I've tracked down the first one he targeted, | 0:38:34 | 0:38:37 | |
in a remote and rural part of the country. | 0:38:37 | 0:38:40 | |
Please, please. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:44 | |
The pastor in charge has never spoken publicly | 0:38:44 | 0:38:46 | |
about Huckle's time here. | 0:38:46 | 0:38:48 | |
Pastor Elisha regularly performs exorcisms. | 0:38:50 | 0:38:54 | |
The practice of expelling demons | 0:38:55 | 0:38:57 | |
from people who say they've become possessed. | 0:38:57 | 0:39:00 | |
SHOUTING | 0:39:00 | 0:39:02 | |
Possessed? | 0:39:07 | 0:39:08 | |
In his diary, Huckle describes becoming possessed like this | 0:39:10 | 0:39:13 | |
when he was here. | 0:39:13 | 0:39:15 | |
Please. | 0:39:19 | 0:39:21 | |
Please. Please. | 0:39:21 | 0:39:24 | |
So, what Huckle says is that he became possessed | 0:39:33 | 0:39:36 | |
while he was here with you. | 0:39:36 | 0:39:39 | |
Do you remember that? | 0:39:39 | 0:39:41 | |
When you felt something's not right, | 0:39:52 | 0:39:55 | |
what did you do? | 0:39:55 | 0:39:57 | |
Did you feel that there was some danger with having him here? | 0:40:11 | 0:40:14 | |
We have Huckle's diary, OK? | 0:40:28 | 0:40:29 | |
-We got a copy of Huckle's diary. -OK. | 0:40:29 | 0:40:32 | |
Huckle wrote in his diary that he confessed to you. | 0:40:32 | 0:40:36 | |
-Hm. -And I wanted to know what that confession might have been. | 0:40:36 | 0:40:42 | |
I'm asking because he wrote, "Pastor came to the hotel, | 0:40:49 | 0:40:53 | |
"and I made a confession to him." | 0:40:53 | 0:40:57 | |
So, I wanted to ask you if you maybe remembered even talking to him | 0:40:57 | 0:41:01 | |
in the hotel? | 0:41:01 | 0:41:02 | |
UPBEAT SINGING | 0:41:11 | 0:41:14 | |
What's most alarming about Huckle's diary entries here are his comments | 0:41:18 | 0:41:22 | |
about the children in the orphanage. | 0:41:22 | 0:41:24 | |
He talks about them in the same way | 0:41:24 | 0:41:27 | |
as children he is known to have abused in Malaysia and Cambodia. | 0:41:27 | 0:41:31 | |
He wrote, "I had a long cuddle with a little girl." | 0:41:32 | 0:41:37 | |
OK. Now, that little girl that he wrote that about, | 0:41:37 | 0:41:41 | |
he says came from this orphanage. | 0:41:41 | 0:41:44 | |
How do you feel, knowing that he might have done that | 0:41:46 | 0:41:50 | |
to a little girl here? | 0:41:50 | 0:41:51 | |
How did you feel when you found out about what Richard Huckle had done | 0:42:00 | 0:42:04 | |
to children? How did that make you feel? | 0:42:04 | 0:42:07 | |
This is a really taboo subject. | 0:42:20 | 0:42:23 | |
He was much more forthright than I ever expected him to be, | 0:42:23 | 0:42:26 | |
and he answered every question, and he didn't shy away from anything. | 0:42:26 | 0:42:30 | |
The only thing he didn't answer that I REALLY wanted an answer to, | 0:42:30 | 0:42:34 | |
was what did Huckle confess to? | 0:42:34 | 0:42:36 | |
Huckle travelled all across India. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:02 | |
And it wasn't only rural orphanages and churches | 0:43:02 | 0:43:06 | |
where he looked for children. | 0:43:06 | 0:43:08 | |
He also targeted slums in big cities. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:12 | |
Hello. | 0:43:19 | 0:43:21 | |
Huckle never came here. But, on the dark web, | 0:43:21 | 0:43:24 | |
he boasted about how easy it was to groom children from poor communities | 0:43:24 | 0:43:28 | |
like this one. | 0:43:28 | 0:43:29 | |
May I look inside? | 0:43:29 | 0:43:32 | |
Thank you. | 0:43:32 | 0:43:34 | |
How many people live here? | 0:43:36 | 0:43:39 | |
Seven? | 0:43:39 | 0:43:41 | |
Where do you sleep? | 0:43:41 | 0:43:42 | |
On the floor? | 0:43:42 | 0:43:46 | |
-That's the bathroom? -Yeah. | 0:43:46 | 0:43:48 | |
This is the bathroom. | 0:43:48 | 0:43:51 | |
Yeah? You tip it over. | 0:43:51 | 0:43:54 | |
You sleep here. You wash here. | 0:43:54 | 0:43:57 | |
To eat? | 0:43:57 | 0:43:59 | |
Here. | 0:43:59 | 0:44:00 | |
One room does all. | 0:44:00 | 0:44:02 | |
This place smells. | 0:44:12 | 0:44:15 | |
It's crawling with flies. | 0:44:15 | 0:44:17 | |
It's really dirty. | 0:44:18 | 0:44:21 | |
But this is the kind of place that Huckle came | 0:44:21 | 0:44:24 | |
to look for children. | 0:44:24 | 0:44:26 | |
Huckle's diary makes several references | 0:44:47 | 0:44:50 | |
to one particular girl from a slum. | 0:44:50 | 0:44:53 | |
After tracking her and her family down, | 0:44:53 | 0:44:55 | |
I discover no-one has ever asked them about Huckle before. | 0:44:55 | 0:44:59 | |
To protect her and her sister, we are disguising their identities | 0:44:59 | 0:45:04 | |
and the area they're from. | 0:45:04 | 0:45:06 | |
I felt he was a nice man. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:11 | |
I thought he was helping me. | 0:45:11 | 0:45:13 | |
I thought he was good. | 0:45:13 | 0:45:15 | |
I liked him so much at that time. | 0:45:15 | 0:45:18 | |
This girl was ten years old when Huckle turned up in her slum. | 0:45:18 | 0:45:22 | |
He was 26, and had already been grooming children for years. | 0:45:22 | 0:45:27 | |
He showed me family photos. | 0:45:27 | 0:45:30 | |
He said it's Malaysia, that he was going there. | 0:45:30 | 0:45:34 | |
He asked me to go with him. | 0:45:34 | 0:45:36 | |
So, Huckle wanted you to come to Malaysia with him? | 0:45:36 | 0:45:39 | |
-Yes. -Yes. | 0:45:39 | 0:45:41 | |
I said no, no, I wanted to be with Mum. | 0:45:41 | 0:45:45 | |
Then he told me to go with him, and that he would bring me up. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:49 | |
I said no. I was scared at that time. | 0:45:49 | 0:45:52 | |
Did you see Huckle do something that was wrong to your sister? | 0:45:52 | 0:45:56 | |
He was trying to lift her skirt with his foot. | 0:45:56 | 0:46:00 | |
My sister moved away. | 0:46:00 | 0:46:02 | |
Some kind of fear filled me. | 0:46:03 | 0:46:06 | |
I didn't expect that he would be like that. | 0:46:06 | 0:46:09 | |
I said, "Hey," and I told him off. | 0:46:09 | 0:46:13 | |
He smiled, and took his legs away. | 0:46:13 | 0:46:16 | |
Then I ran away from there. | 0:46:16 | 0:46:17 | |
But Huckle returned to the slum just a few days later. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:24 | |
Pretending that he was making a film about the residents, | 0:46:24 | 0:46:28 | |
he led the girl into a nearby church. | 0:46:28 | 0:46:31 | |
He made me sit in the chair. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:37 | |
He made me sit very close to him. | 0:46:37 | 0:46:39 | |
He started to look at me weirdly. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:42 | |
I felt something was wrong. | 0:46:43 | 0:46:45 | |
My heartbeat was racing. | 0:46:45 | 0:46:47 | |
I was scared. Immediately, I got up. | 0:46:47 | 0:46:53 | |
He came running behind me. | 0:46:53 | 0:46:54 | |
I hadn't noticed that he had locked the door. | 0:46:56 | 0:46:58 | |
I...I couldn't open it. | 0:46:58 | 0:47:01 | |
He came running behind me. | 0:47:01 | 0:47:02 | |
I managed to open the lock and ran away. | 0:47:04 | 0:47:07 | |
Huckle's diary does not suggest he offended in India on anything like | 0:47:14 | 0:47:18 | |
the same scale as he did in Malaysia. | 0:47:18 | 0:47:21 | |
But he made at least four visits here. | 0:47:21 | 0:47:24 | |
None of these have been investigated by the authorities. | 0:47:24 | 0:47:28 | |
When I read the diary, | 0:47:31 | 0:47:33 | |
I had a hunch that Huckle had committed the same type of offences | 0:47:33 | 0:47:36 | |
in India that he did in Malaysia. | 0:47:36 | 0:47:39 | |
And when I stood in front of those two little girls... | 0:47:39 | 0:47:41 | |
..it didn't feel good to be right. | 0:47:44 | 0:47:46 | |
It didn't feel good at all. | 0:47:48 | 0:47:49 | |
One of the first things I noticed, pastor, when I came through | 0:48:00 | 0:48:03 | |
the gate, was this security camera, and the barbed wire. | 0:48:03 | 0:48:06 | |
Were they here when Huckle came? | 0:48:06 | 0:48:08 | |
When Huckle came, they were already there. | 0:48:08 | 0:48:11 | |
I tracked down another pastor who hosted Huckle twice. | 0:48:14 | 0:48:18 | |
By the time Huckle visited this orphanage, | 0:48:18 | 0:48:21 | |
he'd been abusing children for seven years. | 0:48:21 | 0:48:23 | |
So, this was your first building? | 0:48:26 | 0:48:27 | |
Yeah, this was the first building that we did. | 0:48:27 | 0:48:30 | |
Pastor Gandhi says he ensured that Huckle was never left alone with | 0:48:30 | 0:48:34 | |
any of the children during his stay. | 0:48:34 | 0:48:37 | |
When Huckle came here, this is where the children were sleeping, | 0:48:37 | 0:48:40 | |
-is that right? -Yes, this is the place. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:42 | |
But Huckle was not allowed to sleep with them. | 0:48:42 | 0:48:44 | |
-Yes. -He is staying in a different room. -Mm-hm. | 0:48:44 | 0:48:47 | |
The pastor says he had a premonition about Huckle after he first met him. | 0:48:50 | 0:48:55 | |
I was laying on his bed, | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
and I started having some bad dreams. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:02 | |
And what was that telling you? | 0:49:02 | 0:49:04 | |
He started showing me some pictures, some naked pictures. | 0:49:04 | 0:49:08 | |
-Of children? -It's not totally children but there are some other | 0:49:08 | 0:49:13 | |
-pictures, they are ugly. -Yeah. | 0:49:13 | 0:49:15 | |
Then I discerned there is something wrong going on here in this bedroom, | 0:49:15 | 0:49:19 | |
and with Huckle. | 0:49:19 | 0:49:21 | |
That happened overnight, | 0:49:23 | 0:49:25 | |
and you think there's something wrong with Huckle. | 0:49:25 | 0:49:27 | |
What did you do? | 0:49:27 | 0:49:29 | |
The very next morning, I asked him, | 0:49:29 | 0:49:31 | |
are you practising any pornographic practices? | 0:49:31 | 0:49:36 | |
And he simply said, "No, no, no, I don't have such problems, | 0:49:36 | 0:49:41 | |
"I don't have anything like that." | 0:49:41 | 0:49:43 | |
And then I said, "If you are practising any kind of sin, | 0:49:43 | 0:49:47 | |
"then you must renounce it and come to God." | 0:49:47 | 0:49:50 | |
During the nine years Huckle lived and travelled in Asia, | 0:50:03 | 0:50:07 | |
his behaviour on social media | 0:50:07 | 0:50:08 | |
did raise some suspicions back in the UK. | 0:50:08 | 0:50:11 | |
On Facebook, he posted vast numbers of pictures of himself with | 0:50:13 | 0:50:17 | |
the children he was meeting. | 0:50:17 | 0:50:19 | |
I contacted around 20 of Huckle's Facebook friends but only one agreed | 0:50:19 | 0:50:24 | |
to speak on camera. | 0:50:24 | 0:50:27 | |
He went to school with Huckle here in Kent. | 0:50:27 | 0:50:29 | |
In 2012, he challenged Huckle on Facebook about his posts. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:35 | |
But just before we're about to meet, even he gets cold feet. | 0:50:39 | 0:50:43 | |
"I've had some time to think about this | 0:50:45 | 0:50:47 | |
"and not really happy with going ahead. | 0:50:47 | 0:50:49 | |
"I'm a little wary of how this will be seen with the public, | 0:50:49 | 0:50:53 | |
"due to the sickening content from him, | 0:50:53 | 0:50:56 | |
"which is not something I want my name against." | 0:50:56 | 0:50:58 | |
He basically called Huckle out on the amount, | 0:50:58 | 0:51:03 | |
the sheer amount of kids photographs Huckle was posting on Facebook. | 0:51:03 | 0:51:06 | |
And basically accused him of being a paedophile. | 0:51:06 | 0:51:09 | |
According to this guy, Huckle was | 0:51:10 | 0:51:12 | |
really quick to come back and deny | 0:51:12 | 0:51:14 | |
and challenge him about the accusation | 0:51:14 | 0:51:17 | |
but it's really key because it was Huckle's contemporaries, | 0:51:17 | 0:51:21 | |
it was the people the same age as Huckle that kind of thought what he | 0:51:21 | 0:51:25 | |
was doing was a bit weird. | 0:51:25 | 0:51:26 | |
But Huckle only ever revealed his true character on the dark web. | 0:51:31 | 0:51:35 | |
He became increasingly reckless and arrogant about posting videos and | 0:51:38 | 0:51:41 | |
pictures of the crimes he was committing. | 0:51:41 | 0:51:44 | |
Huckle had become so consumed by the abuse that he turned it into a game | 0:51:46 | 0:51:52 | |
and started awarding himself paedo points for abusing the children. | 0:51:52 | 0:51:56 | |
He even set rules where he didn't allow himself to abuse the same | 0:51:57 | 0:52:01 | |
child in the same week in the same way. | 0:52:01 | 0:52:04 | |
The most serious offences, like rape, earned 15 points. | 0:52:06 | 0:52:09 | |
In the year up to November 2014, | 0:52:10 | 0:52:13 | |
Huckle managed to score over 1,300 points. | 0:52:13 | 0:52:17 | |
And he recorded all of this on something he called a paedo ledger. | 0:52:20 | 0:52:24 | |
It was at this point that Huckle's crimes finally caught up with him, | 0:52:37 | 0:52:41 | |
nine years after he'd left the UK on his gap year. | 0:52:41 | 0:52:44 | |
Australian police infiltrated a notorious dark website | 0:52:46 | 0:52:51 | |
and discovered that one of its most prolific users was British. | 0:52:51 | 0:52:55 | |
Police in the UK were alerted. | 0:52:56 | 0:52:59 | |
That internet usage enabled us to identify who he was and where he | 0:53:02 | 0:53:06 | |
was, and then our investigations started to proceed at a rapid rate | 0:53:06 | 0:53:09 | |
of knots at that stage. He was giving guidance to other paedophiles | 0:53:09 | 0:53:13 | |
about how to operate, so that was something completely new to us | 0:53:13 | 0:53:18 | |
and just reflected the depravity and the dangerous situations that | 0:53:18 | 0:53:22 | |
this individual was creating with very young children, | 0:53:22 | 0:53:26 | |
ranging from six months to about 13 years of age. | 0:53:26 | 0:53:29 | |
British police learned that Huckle was flying back from Malaysia to | 0:53:34 | 0:53:38 | |
the UK for Christmas. | 0:53:38 | 0:53:40 | |
On the 19th of December 2014, he was arrested at Gatwick Airport. | 0:53:40 | 0:53:46 | |
20,000 images of abuse were found on his computer, | 0:53:46 | 0:53:50 | |
and he was taken into custody. | 0:53:50 | 0:53:53 | |
During interview, Huckle refused to answer the questions | 0:54:18 | 0:54:21 | |
that we put to him. He showed no remorse whatsoever. | 0:54:21 | 0:54:24 | |
There's not one point in time that he's ever asked about the victims. | 0:54:24 | 0:54:28 | |
He's never asked about their welfare, | 0:54:28 | 0:54:31 | |
he's never asked about the impact. | 0:54:31 | 0:54:33 | |
After months of painstaking interrogation | 0:54:37 | 0:54:39 | |
of the pictures and videos | 0:54:39 | 0:54:42 | |
Huckle had posted on the dark web, | 0:54:42 | 0:54:44 | |
he was charged with 91 offences and abusing 23 children. | 0:54:44 | 0:54:49 | |
This is Richard, just to let you know I'm still remanded in prison. | 0:54:51 | 0:54:55 | |
If you still want to keep in touch, then just send me a letter sometime. | 0:54:55 | 0:55:00 | |
Huckle continued to believe he could escape punishment. | 0:55:03 | 0:55:07 | |
From his cell, he wrote to Pastor Gandhi in India, | 0:55:07 | 0:55:11 | |
the man he'd lied to previously about his crimes. | 0:55:11 | 0:55:14 | |
"Greetings to you and your family. | 0:55:16 | 0:55:19 | |
"For the past 12 months, I've been imprisoned, waiting for a trial, | 0:55:19 | 0:55:23 | |
"a trial that the British authorities want to pursue with me." | 0:55:23 | 0:55:26 | |
He's in Belmarsh. | 0:55:28 | 0:55:30 | |
He says, | 0:55:31 | 0:55:33 | |
"But I would like to assure you that I have done no harm or distress | 0:55:33 | 0:55:40 | |
"despite the serious charges the British authorities | 0:55:40 | 0:55:42 | |
"have put before me." | 0:55:42 | 0:55:44 | |
This letter is dated 27th of March 2016. | 0:55:44 | 0:55:49 | |
So, it's right before his trial. | 0:55:49 | 0:55:51 | |
So, there's no acceptance he's committed any offence. | 0:55:53 | 0:55:57 | |
"God bless you, Richard Huckle." | 0:55:58 | 0:56:02 | |
This guy is either seriously deluded | 0:56:02 | 0:56:06 | |
and completely off the scale | 0:56:06 | 0:56:09 | |
if he doesn't realise that he's done wrong. | 0:56:09 | 0:56:13 | |
Or he's deliberately underplaying | 0:56:13 | 0:56:15 | |
what he did to make sure he keeps Gandhi | 0:56:15 | 0:56:18 | |
as a friend, as a confidante. | 0:56:18 | 0:56:20 | |
But Huckle was fighting a losing battle. | 0:56:25 | 0:56:27 | |
British Police believed they could convict him without any of | 0:56:27 | 0:56:31 | |
the victims reliving the trauma of their abuse in court. | 0:56:31 | 0:56:35 | |
The photos and videos Huckle had posted on the dark web provided | 0:56:36 | 0:56:40 | |
all the evidence they needed. | 0:56:40 | 0:56:43 | |
He didn't record his offending in a way that he was obvious | 0:56:43 | 0:56:45 | |
in those videos. | 0:56:45 | 0:56:47 | |
We couldn't see his face but we could see clothing and | 0:56:47 | 0:56:49 | |
various other items that would lead us to identify him. | 0:56:49 | 0:56:53 | |
I think as the evidence unravelled and as the evidence was discovered, | 0:56:53 | 0:56:57 | |
then I think the penny began to drop and the weight of evidence was so | 0:56:57 | 0:57:00 | |
strong that he pleaded guilty. | 0:57:00 | 0:57:02 | |
A former Sunday School teacher, | 0:57:06 | 0:57:08 | |
considered to be one of Britain's most prolific paedophiles, | 0:57:08 | 0:57:11 | |
is facing a life sentence | 0:57:11 | 0:57:13 | |
for a catalogue of abuse against children in Malaysia. | 0:57:13 | 0:57:16 | |
Richard Huckle, who's 30 and from Ashford in Kent, | 0:57:16 | 0:57:19 | |
admitted more than 70 charges. | 0:57:19 | 0:57:21 | |
Huckle was convicted of abusing 23 children at his trial, | 0:57:26 | 0:57:30 | |
although the judge noted that the ledger where he recorded his crimes | 0:57:30 | 0:57:33 | |
on the dark web contained the names of 191 children. | 0:57:33 | 0:57:38 | |
But the true number of victims is likely to be even greater. | 0:57:44 | 0:57:47 | |
Huckle has refused to hand over the passwords to some of the hard drives | 0:57:49 | 0:57:53 | |
he stored images on and they remain locked. | 0:57:53 | 0:57:56 | |
His diary also reveals he spent time with kids from churches in Britain. | 0:58:00 | 0:58:04 | |
He's getting himself into churches, he's spending time with young kids. | 0:58:34 | 0:58:38 | |
He says he is teaching them and he is also talking his way into their | 0:58:38 | 0:58:41 | |
homes and having sleepovers with them. | 0:58:41 | 0:58:44 | |
He writes about dreaming about these kids and names them, | 0:58:44 | 0:58:47 | |
and he's talking about kissing them. | 0:58:47 | 0:58:49 | |
He was absolutely prolific. | 0:58:51 | 0:58:54 | |
We need to look at what went on in the UK at the times and places and | 0:58:54 | 0:58:57 | |
spaces that he occupied here in positions of trust. | 0:58:57 | 0:59:01 | |
Jim Gamble used to lead police | 0:59:03 | 0:59:05 | |
investigations into child abuse in the UK. | 0:59:05 | 0:59:08 | |
He believes Huckle's movements here | 0:59:08 | 0:59:10 | |
need to be investigated more extensively. | 0:59:10 | 0:59:13 | |
How likely is it that someone like Huckle offended here in | 0:59:13 | 0:59:16 | |
-the UK? -Highly likely. | 0:59:16 | 0:59:18 | |
I would be shocked if there were no victims of his in this country. | 0:59:18 | 0:59:22 | |
So, the fact that his 200 victims, I would say, you know, | 0:59:22 | 0:59:25 | |
if you were to really focus on him and had the resources to focus in | 0:59:25 | 0:59:29 | |
depth on him for significant period of time, there would be more. | 0:59:29 | 0:59:32 | |
I would say that within the next 10-15 years other young people, | 0:59:32 | 0:59:36 | |
who are young now, who have been abused by Huckle, will come forward. | 0:59:36 | 0:59:40 | |
We know Huckle spent a significant | 0:59:47 | 0:59:49 | |
amount of time in a church here in London. | 0:59:49 | 0:59:51 | |
Have you approached that church? | 0:59:51 | 0:59:54 | |
Yeah, we are aware of two churches that he attended. | 0:59:54 | 0:59:56 | |
We've approached both of those churches and we've spoken to them, | 0:59:56 | 0:59:59 | |
and they've assured us that to the best of their knowledge that they | 0:59:59 | 1:00:03 | |
are not aware of any offending | 1:00:03 | 1:00:05 | |
or any suspicions that they had at the time. | 1:00:05 | 1:00:08 | |
I mean, is it enough for the church leaders to say they've asked and | 1:00:08 | 1:00:12 | |
there's been no abuse? Huckle spent overnight stays in some of the homes | 1:00:12 | 1:00:17 | |
of these churchgoers. | 1:00:17 | 1:00:19 | |
Should the NCA call themselves in to talk to these families? | 1:00:19 | 1:00:23 | |
I'm not aware of him staying with families. | 1:00:23 | 1:00:27 | |
But if there are any families, parents, | 1:00:27 | 1:00:30 | |
children that believe he has been engaged in any sexual activity with | 1:00:30 | 1:00:34 | |
children, then we would like to speak to them. | 1:00:34 | 1:00:37 | |
I would not support going and approaching victims direct. | 1:00:37 | 1:00:42 | |
But our responsibility is, as soon as they do come forward, | 1:00:42 | 1:00:46 | |
is then to provide them with the service they absolutely deserve, | 1:00:46 | 1:00:48 | |
which is support for them and then investigate the crimes that are | 1:00:48 | 1:00:52 | |
reported to us. | 1:00:52 | 1:00:54 | |
Richard Huckle was a wolf in sheep's clothing. | 1:01:03 | 1:01:07 | |
A ruthless predator who posed as a friend to the most poor, | 1:01:07 | 1:01:11 | |
innocent and vulnerable. | 1:01:11 | 1:01:13 | |
Lessons must be learned about how he was able to commit unspeakable | 1:01:15 | 1:01:19 | |
crimes in plain sight for nearly a decade. | 1:01:19 | 1:01:22 | |
For now, at least, Huckle's offending has been stopped | 1:01:24 | 1:01:28 | |
but we'll probably never know the full extent | 1:01:28 | 1:01:31 | |
of the devastation and pain he left behind. | 1:01:31 | 1:01:35 |