9/11: Conspiracy Road Trip


9/11: Conspiracy Road Trip

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This programme contains some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting, and some strong language.

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I'm Andrew Maxwell, a comedian.

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But I'm here in New York on a serious mission.

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9/11 was the most shocking day in recent American history.

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2,973 innocent people died.

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Unbelievably, there are many who doubt the conclusions of the official investigation

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and want to believe the American government

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was in some way responsible for this tragic event.

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I'm taking five of them to America on an extraordinary journey,

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to see if I can change their minds. It'll be a tough mission -

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these guys appear to be convinced conspiracy theorists.

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-Rodney? Welcome aboard. Andrew.

-Nice to meet you.

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-Hi.

-Hello.

-Emily.

-Hello, Emily.

-You all right?

-How are you?

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-Hiya. Shazin.

-Hello, Shazin. Andrew. Welcome aboard. Please.

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Done. Let's move this thing.

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How do two towers with two aeroplanes

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get pulverised into...nothing?

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Personally, I'm certain as certain can be

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that the attacks were ordered by Osama bin Laden.

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So we're now going down the east coast of America,

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from New York to Washington, to see where the attacks happened...

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Flight 93 passed right above, and that's where the impact occurred.

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..to meet eyewitnesses...

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I saw melted parts of the plane,

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I saw parts of stewardesses in the building.

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..relatives of the victims...

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I said, "I love you, sweetie," and then we were cut off.

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..and even the chief air traffic controller.

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We at air traffic control did not know what was going on.

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What will happen when they're confronted by the scientific facts?

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Maybe there'll be arguments...

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Don't be blaming them.

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When have I ever done that?!

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..fall outs...

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You don't make any sense at all.

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..and tears.

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You're crying, screaming or happy.

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That's all right. I don't have a heart of stone like you.

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Oh, man! Does anyone have any Prozac?

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Will I end up changing their minds?

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We will seek the truth, brothers and sisters.

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Woo-hoo!

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As we travel through the day that changed the world.

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Welcome to Conspiracy Road Trip 9/11.

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Welcome to Conspiracy Road Trip 9/11. Welcome.

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-CHEERING

-Welcome, team.

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Now, I have reason to believe that all five of you have divergent opinions

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from the official account of events. Is that correct?

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-It is, sir. Yes, sir.

-OK, sweet as.

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It will be my attempt to conjecture and perhaps charm,

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-to persuade you otherwise.

-Good luck with that.

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Charlotte, a nanny, thinks the American government was to blame.

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I think it was Bush and his Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld...

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Rodney, a health worker, studied biochemistry

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and believes some of the science doesn't add up.

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Nano-thermites were found at the wreckage.

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You know, literally.

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Nano-thermites were found. They're military-grade explosives.

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Student Emily is an active member of the 9/11 Truth Movement.

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9/11 was an inside job!

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You know, I do go on about it a lot.

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My housemates said I was preaching about it to them.

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I guess I do talk about it a lot.

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Shazin has some doubts about the official version of events.

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I questioned United 93.

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Some of the passengers made calls to their family,

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and I've always wondered how you can make a call on an aeroplane.

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And Charlie, who studied philosophy,

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thinks 9/11 too conveniently provided an excuse to go to war.

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Sold a lot of weapons!

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It's, er...got some good contracts in Iraq, Afghanistan.

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'You couldn't make up better stuff -

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'a bunch of bearded men, living in caves.'

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-Where would the Twin Towers have sat?

-There. That's the bay.

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No, no. Other way, guys. That way.

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'We're going to the sites of 9/11, to the actual places.'

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I want to see what difference that makes to their opinions.

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Does that calcify them?

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Does they even harden in their opinions?

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Or do they step back and realise this is real...

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There's real suffering here?

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All right, let's do this thing. Come on!

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We're starting the trip where that truly awful day began.

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Ground Zero.

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2,753 innocent people lost their lives here

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when the Twin Towers were attacked.

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Even though an independent commission concluded it was the work of al-Qaeda,

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my five - and allegedly up to a third of Brits and Americans -

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just don't believe it.

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Maybe the site of Ground Zero will give them a reality check.

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Being here, I get this incredible sense of...

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It's not, it's not a calm sense I get around the Ground Zero,

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it's this kind of anxious...

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I don't know, it's a kind of confusion.

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There is a...bad energy around here, bad energy.

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Charlotte was in New York on September 11th, 2001.

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Every moment of that day just flooded back.

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'I started realising that this was a real emotional trip.'

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'She's been obsessed with 9/11 ever since,

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'and has been researching what she thinks

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'really happened for the last ten years.'

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When you start looking at things and it was within...

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within the first day.

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By the end of the day, I was like, "Something is going on here,

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"and I'm going to get to the bottom of it.

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"I probably never will, but I'm going to try."

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And that's how you know hundreds of thousands of other people felt.

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There's not... It might be a conspiracy,

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but there are hundreds of thousands of people that believe it.

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Over the next week, each of my fellow travellers

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is going to challenge me on a conspiracy theory

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they believe proves the official version wrong.

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Will you please welcome to the front of the bus, Charlotte.

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CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

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First up is Charlotte, who thinks the American government is to blame.

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OK, basically, I'm going to be discussing the major queries

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regarding the amateur pilots.

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Holy shit!

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She can't believe the hijackers - barely out of flying school -

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could have steered jetliners into the Twin Towers

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with such deadly accuracy.

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I can't imagine that somebody

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that's had training in some flight simulators

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and can barely fly a Cessna could get into the seat of a 767

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and hit that kind of target at the velocity and speed

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and everything that's needed one time, no practice run.

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It couldn't have been done at that speed,

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couldn't have been done at that velocity.

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So either the data is faulty

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or someone's pulling the wool over our eyes.

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Welcome to Best In Flight.

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-I'm Charlotte.

-Charlotte, how do you do?

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Robert Hadow's an experienced flight instructor.

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I want him to show how hard or easy it is to control an aircraft

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for someone who has never done it before.

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If you're tender with the controls and can take directions,

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-you'll land the plane on your first flight.

-My gosh.

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I don't want to do it.

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Been thinking about plane crashes for the last week.

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The last thing I want to do is get on a plane.

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Charlotte volunteers to let Shazin go up.

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I'd gladly submit to one of these girls to do it.

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-I'd love to do it.

-Shazin.

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That's brave of Shaz,

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because, since 9/11, she's been scared of flying.

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Do you have any problems with birds flying into the plane?

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-It make a big mess on the wing.

-This will get you over your fear of flying.

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You're flying over water, it's so easy!

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Fly well...just don't crash.

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-You couldn't just say, "Have a safe flight"!

-I know!

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Bye!

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-OK, Shaz, you ready?

-Yes.

-Push the throttle all the way up!

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All the way up! OK?

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Woo! Oh, my God!

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Push right, go right.

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Push right now.

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All right, you're doing fine.

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After less than ten minutes' instruction,

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Robert hands the controls to Shazin,

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who seems perfectly capable of flying around Manhattan.

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Now, that should convince the others.

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Look, she's flying.

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This is really scary, actually.

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Oh, my God.

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Bring the stick back a hair, bring the nose up to the horizon.

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-Very nice.

-Wow.

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I'm heading towards that water tower,

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and it's pretty easy to navigate.

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-Obviously, I don't want to hit it.

-Well, I won't let you.

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SHE LAUGHS

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-So, Robert, you're not controlling this at all?

-No, I'm not. All right?

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So how easy do you think it would be for an amateur pilot

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to fly a big, massive airliner jet?

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-Well, in fact, it's easier to fly a big jet.

-OK.

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-For example, you feel the bumps we're going through?

-Yeah.

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-You wouldn't feel that on a 747.

-Oh, I see, I see.

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But it's the same basic principles.

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This airplane, or any other big airplane.

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Now Shazin is about to try

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one of the most difficult manoeuvres of all,

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after just 30 minutes.

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Her target?

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The runway.

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I'm going to ask you to aim directly down the runway.

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So, finding a target, you think, will be quite easy for me?

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I would prefer not to think of it as a target,

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I would prefer to think of it as the runway you're going to land on.

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-Yeah!

-All right, now, you're aimed right at the runway.

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-Yeah, just about.

-OK? Yeah?

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Now just use your feet, a little bit of right rudder,

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-and we're going to fly it all the way down.

-OK.

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-Throttle back a little bit more.

-A little bit more.

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Right. Now. Now we're going to tease the runway. OK.

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-Just hold it there, throttle out.

-OK.

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-Throw the throttle all the way back.

-Yep, got it.

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-All the way back.

-All the way back. All right?

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Now just hold it off the runway, hold it off, hold it off.

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Oops, bit bumpy.

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-Yeah, but you did it.

-But we did it.

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-So I'm very proud.

-And the wing's OK, yeah?

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-Everything's fine.

-Ha ha!

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-All right?

-Fantastic!

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I can't believe I landed a plane myself.

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In such a short space of time.

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-Did you land it?

-Yeah.

-You landed it?!

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-I landed it completely, so...

-Well done.

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Do you think that it would be more difficult to fly a Boeing airplane?

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It might be slightly more nerve-racking, but I would say it's very easy.

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Especially as, prior to this, I hadn't had any knowledge

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about how to work this thing,

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and I've been taught in less than an hour.

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Shazin's convinced, but despite this evidence,

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Charlotte still doesn't believe that with so little training

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the hijackers could fly a commercial jet

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into a target with such accuracy.

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I mean, do you know a lot about Boeings?

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As a matter of fact, yes.

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OK, the exact Boeing that went into the World Trade Centres?

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All they had to do is fly straight and level towards a target.

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So people that trained them didn't believe they could do this,

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and yet the rest of us will just except that they could

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and will dismiss any other possibility?

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I think Charlotte might be a particularly tough nut to crack.

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Emily's been concerned about something different.

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Airport security.

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Now, my main bone of contention is

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if President Bush knew on August 6th -

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which he did, but has categorically denied

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until he actually had to come out and say, "I did know" -

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why did he not step up the security to maximum,

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make sure that nothing gets through?

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So let's go through and we'll see exactly...

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It was. It's like how it was.

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Let's go and meet Buck, and he'll talk through how it used to be.

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-Hello!

-Hey, you're on, Buck!

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I've found a United Airways pilot with many years experience -

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Buck Rogers. Real name.

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He should be able to explain how the hijackers

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managed to get through security with knives.

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If George Bush knew on August 6th, which he did,

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do you feel that the time between August 6th

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and September 11th would have been too short to implement

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security measures with the threat that they had?

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Well, I appreciate your question,

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and I'm sorry I'm not able to quite answer it.

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I can tell you, before 9/11 a lot of airports were such like this.

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There, there were no metal detectors in some airports,

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and people could just walk through.

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In fact, way before 9/11, some people were able to

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just not even go through a metal detector

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and just walk to the gate to meet their arriving passengers.

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That's at the airport. Let's go into the flying world.

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Before 9/11, they flew with the cockpit doors open.

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So, as a passenger, you could actually go into the cockpit

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while the plane was in flight.

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We experienced very little hijackings.

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I mean, there was an occasional hijacking in India,

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there may have been one down in South America or Mexico.

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So in America, there really wasn't anyone attempting to hijack planes?

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-No, we hadn't experienced that.

-Right.

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If something like that had never happened before,

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it's a very unique way.

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Andrew, it said in the report...

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'Unfortunately for my case, the security guard at the check-in desk

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'also has his doubts.'

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It seems a little bit wacky but it makes sense what you're saying.

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If it is a conspiracy, you know, like, you believe those...

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people who executed it, yeah, they were pretty smart,

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they knew what they were doing,

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-but it just happened a little too perfectly.

-Yeah.

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A bit too easily.

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A little... Yeah.

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Either way you look at it, the government screwed up massively

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or they orchestrated the entire thing.

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It's just a big "Who knows?"

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Don't you think we need some actual justice and accountability?

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And when the American people find out that it was criminal elements

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in this establishment that either made 9/11 happen

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or allowed it to happen,

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there'll be a revolution in this country.

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-They know what happened. It was a terrorist attack.

-We don't know happened!

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You weren't there, dude. You just believe in the official story,

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you're just having this obedient psychology,

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which is very worrying, man.

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As people, they're nice. They're nice people.

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There's nothing... You know?

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It's kind of odd that they're...

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They're... They're incredibly cynical...

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..yet incredibly, kind of, childlike and gullible at the same time.

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You know what I mean?

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But these five people - well, to various shades, as we're learning -

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to a certain extent, all five of them believe

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that the American government wiped out their own people

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with civilian planes.

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On 9/11, the hijackers did get through security.

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They did overpower the crew and take over the controls.

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At 8:46am, they managed to guide the first plane

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straight into one of the Twin Towers.

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SIRENS BLARE

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And at 9:03am, the stunned world saw the second plane do the same.

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Oh, my God. Oh, Jeez! God!

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At first, the Towers looked OK,

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but within an hour, the first steel skyscraper started to collapse.

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The investigation concluded that the impact of the plane

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and then the ensuing heat from the jet fuel fire

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caused the Towers to collapse.

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RUMBLING

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That's what the official report says.

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It seems obvious to me, but Charlie doesn't believe it at all.

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Hi, guys, thanks for listening to me.

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I am a proponent of the idea that the Twin Towers

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were brought down in a controlled-demolition manner.

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Those buildings would not have collapsed in the slightest

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from a Boeing 767 hit.

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The main reasons why I think it was a controlled demolition -

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first of all, is that what we saw on September 11th

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with the World Trade Centre were these two 110-storey buildings

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collapsing perfectly within their own footprint.

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What we call a top-down demolition.

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EXPLOSION

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Charlie thinks the way the towers fell

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looks uncannily similar to a normal skyscraper demolition,

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so he thinks it was a controlled demolition

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carried out by the government.

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See? How does it carry on going straight down?

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That's a controlled demolition if I ever I saw one. Thank you.

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CHEERS AND APPLAUSE

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'Charlie's done well, it's a strong case.

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'I'm going to have to take him on.'

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Now, to refute that, we're going to be meeting a demolition expert.

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He might be on your side, Charlie. Let's not be so cynical.

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Dude, if he's on our side, I will buy you a bottle of champagne.

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The point is, you're not going to have to do it on Skype,

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or look at a clip on YouTube, you're actually going to meet somebody. OK?

0:17:050:17:08

-You can talk to him, all right?

-Yeah.

0:17:080:17:10

'Charlie had a pretty conventional life

0:17:120:17:14

'until he was made redundant from the City.'

0:17:140:17:17

'Well, I grew up very gung ho.

0:17:190:17:21

'I mean, I was a banker

0:17:210:17:22

'who joined the Territorial Army to be an officer.'

0:17:220:17:25

I learnt how to lead men, I learnt how to march like a robot.

0:17:250:17:29

I was fully prepared to go to Iraq

0:17:290:17:31

and kill terrorists for Queen and country.

0:17:310:17:33

I guess I kind of had some sort of political awakening

0:17:330:17:36

about the events of 9/11.

0:17:360:17:37

I can't then go and be such a nihilistic...killer

0:17:370:17:42

to go and kill people who may have had nothing to do with 9/11.

0:17:420:17:45

And so I quit, a week before Sandhurst,

0:17:450:17:47

and they were quite pissed off.

0:17:470:17:49

Since Charlie's political awakening,

0:17:510:17:54

he's become convinced

0:17:540:17:55

the United States government blew up the buildings

0:17:550:17:58

as an excuse to invade Iraq.

0:17:580:18:00

Rebuilding has started at Ground Zero,

0:18:010:18:03

and 200 metres up, on the 47th floor of one of the new towers,

0:18:030:18:07

I'm hoping a demolition expert will help me make Charlie see reason.

0:18:070:18:11

Mummy, I can fly!

0:18:150:18:16

Oh!

0:18:190:18:20

I'm trying to get my bearings,

0:18:250:18:26

but I'm presuming this is where the World Trade Centre was.

0:18:260:18:29

The point is, say if Dr Evil came to you

0:18:300:18:32

and wanted to do this, actually rig it and blow those buildings,

0:18:320:18:37

how many men would you have needed?

0:18:370:18:39

We're fortunate here in that these columns have not been covered yet.

0:18:390:18:43

'Brent Blanchard has demolished thousands of buildings.'

0:18:430:18:46

So they're the exact sort of columns that you'd want to rig, yeah?

0:18:460:18:50

Similar. These are smaller than what was in WTC.

0:18:500:18:52

But you can't put an explosive on this and have the column blow up.

0:18:520:18:56

-OK.

-It doesn't work.

0:18:560:18:57

You need to pre-cut this in some way.

0:18:570:19:00

That requires preparation. It requires a LOT of preparation.

0:19:000:19:04

And you would actually have to have some type of explosive,

0:19:050:19:08

similar to this, something very high velocity,

0:19:080:19:11

that will cut through steel.

0:19:110:19:12

It happens in building implosions.

0:19:120:19:14

You don't see it, but that's what it is.

0:19:140:19:16

-That's what you're doing.

-Yeah.

-So, erm...

0:19:160:19:18

The Twin Towers.

0:19:180:19:19

How many times would you need to have done that process

0:19:190:19:22

to pull down the towers?

0:19:220:19:24

Probably hundreds of columns.

0:19:240:19:26

You're talking about a lot of explosive material,

0:19:260:19:29

a lot people who know exactly what they're doing,

0:19:290:19:31

who have a lot of time to work on this.

0:19:310:19:33

So that's how you do a controlled demolition.

0:19:330:19:37

Guys come in, pre-cut the steel girders and wire the whole building.

0:19:370:19:40

I can't see how all this could have taken place

0:19:400:19:43

under the nose of everyone working in those buildings.

0:19:430:19:46

You'd have to pass security,

0:19:460:19:48

get through the doors, and pass the cameras undetected.

0:19:480:19:50

It's not that far-fetched, to believe that somebody could.

0:19:500:19:53

Let's even say you got your equipment in,

0:19:530:19:55

you still need access to the columns.

0:19:550:19:58

I saw the tower start to go like that but then...

0:19:580:20:02

Let's imagine that's there and it kind of...

0:20:020:20:04

carried on straight down into the building,

0:20:040:20:06

instead of just going, buuuuuupp!

0:20:060:20:08

When the building begins to fall, it never, ever tips over.

0:20:080:20:12

But they're saying that the jet fuel doesn't burn that high,

0:20:120:20:15

-enough to melt steel.

-It doesn't have to.

0:20:150:20:17

The little columns need to be supported.

0:20:170:20:19

When it began to fail... As soon as they tip a little off centre,

0:20:190:20:23

they lose a lot of their support.

0:20:230:20:24

When it tips a little more, as you saw in 9/11,

0:20:240:20:27

they have no support now. They have to go straight down.

0:20:270:20:30

So it's simply compressed.

0:20:300:20:32

Brent's been making a lot of sense,

0:20:330:20:35

and I wonder if he's managed to persuade Charlie.

0:20:350:20:38

It makes sense. Ugh. This is hard, you know?

0:20:400:20:42

Cos I've held onto these ideas for years now

0:20:420:20:45

and I've hung out with people who said,

0:20:450:20:47

"Yeah, conspiracy, 9/11, demolition."

0:20:470:20:49

But now I've spoken to a guy who explained to me

0:20:490:20:52

why it's stopped collapsing, and it makes sense.

0:20:520:20:57

-In the morning...

-Yeah?

-..6:30, here.

-Cool, man.

0:21:050:21:09

'It's been a long day, and I may have cracked Charlie.'

0:21:090:21:13

Rodney's a different story.

0:21:150:21:17

You'd think a science grad like Rodney would be more rational.

0:21:170:21:21

I think, yeah, explosives were used.

0:21:210:21:23

I mean, that's been discovered. There's evidence of them.

0:21:230:21:27

There's been two scientific papers on that.

0:21:270:21:29

We're talking about something that very few people know about,

0:21:290:21:32

and that needs to change.

0:21:320:21:34

It seems he's going to be very hard to convince.

0:21:340:21:36

By the morning, Rodney has found a strong ally in Charlotte.

0:21:430:21:47

They're both so convinced Brent and I are wrong,

0:21:470:21:49

they've gone for back-up.

0:21:490:21:51

Tony Szamboti is a mechanical engineer

0:21:510:21:54

who's written articles in professional journals

0:21:540:21:56

about the Twin Towers.

0:21:560:21:57

He's willing to agree it would have been impossible

0:21:590:22:02

to pre-cut all the steel girders unnoticed.

0:22:020:22:04

But he has an answer.

0:22:040:22:06

And I want to show you right here,

0:22:060:22:08

these are pictures of the paper put out by these scientists

0:22:080:22:11

who found active thermitic material discovered in dust

0:22:110:22:15

in the 9/11 World Trade Centre catastrophe.

0:22:150:22:17

When they looked at these red and grey chips,

0:22:170:22:20

they found they had the constituents of thermite.

0:22:200:22:23

-Wow.

-In addition to that - this is a big thing - these chips ignite.

0:22:230:22:27

Right. Exactly, and...

0:22:270:22:29

The thermitic reaction was going on.

0:22:290:22:32

He thinks an incendiary called thermite was involved.

0:22:320:22:36

It's a fine powder that can melt steel when ignited.

0:22:360:22:39

Now, there's no way to structurally explain the freefall

0:22:390:22:44

other than some form of controlled demolition device in there.

0:22:440:22:47

-Why weren't those questions asked?

-Right.

0:22:470:22:49

Charlotte and Rodney now want to convince us

0:22:510:22:53

that the Twin Towers were brought down by a controlled demolition

0:22:530:22:56

using thermite packed around the girders.

0:22:560:22:59

So I've found them a real boffin,

0:23:010:23:03

a thermite expert from the University of California.

0:23:030:23:07

And I've sent them off to conduct a DIY chemistry experiment.

0:23:070:23:11

It's not really an explosive, it's more of just an incendiary...

0:23:110:23:15

-Yeah, it creates a lot of heat.

-Yes.

-Yeah.

0:23:150:23:17

Yeah, but it will demonstrate how steel can be melted.

0:23:170:23:20

It's a simple recipe, mixing very small particles in a powder,

0:23:200:23:25

that creates an intense heat when it burns.

0:23:250:23:27

Look at that. Very, very similar red-grey chips.

0:23:290:23:33

Just be prepared to put a safe distance

0:23:330:23:35

between you and the reaction.

0:23:350:23:37

Charlotte and Rodney are sure that when this mixture is ignited,

0:23:370:23:41

it will cut through a steel beam.

0:23:410:23:44

-Woo! Oh, my God!

-Whoa!

0:23:470:23:50

Oh, it's so hot! Oh, wow.

0:23:510:23:55

So it's aluminium oxide and iron metal.

0:23:550:23:57

They've partially separated, based on their densities.

0:23:570:24:00

-It's dripping to the floor.

-Yes.

0:24:000:24:02

Unfortunately for them, it's clear that three kilos of thermite

0:24:020:24:06

has barely affected the steel beam at all.

0:24:060:24:09

It seems you need a big bucket of the stuff to burn through that.

0:24:090:24:12

Yes, you need a lot.

0:24:120:24:13

You know, probably hundreds of pounds.

0:24:130:24:16

It's unlikely that so much thermite could be so well placed.

0:24:160:24:19

Is it possible to put this stuff in paint and then paint it on?

0:24:190:24:23

In fact, it would act to slow it down

0:24:230:24:24

or prevent the chemical reaction from occurring.

0:24:240:24:27

Would the fire have acted to ignite the thermite reaction?

0:24:270:24:30

Well, it's very difficult to ignite thermite.

0:24:300:24:32

We had to use magnesium ribbon here, and it's very hard.

0:24:320:24:35

Thank you very much.

0:24:350:24:37

It's becoming more and more and more unlikely that this stuff was used

0:24:370:24:41

to bring down the buildings, and...

0:24:410:24:44

Because...

0:24:440:24:46

I really... I'm starting to really question, like,

0:24:460:24:48

what was in it for the establishment to do this with this?

0:24:480:24:52

Like, they had a lot to lose. If they got caught...

0:24:520:24:54

The amount you'd need to put in the buildings.

0:24:540:24:57

If a janitor finds this, calls the police, the police turn up,

0:24:570:24:59

the NYPD finds all these explosives on September 10th,

0:24:590:25:02

it would have brought about revolution in America overnight.

0:25:020:25:06

So it's starting to seem that...

0:25:060:25:08

..the planes did mess up those buildings quite a lot,

0:25:090:25:13

and maybe things like this are unnecessary to explain the collapse.

0:25:130:25:17

But Rodney isn't having any of it.

0:25:170:25:20

He's still holding on to his Thermite theory.

0:25:200:25:23

Good luck, man.

0:25:230:25:25

-I'm not going to go too hardcore, don't worry.

-We don't want to break you.

-No-one will break me.

0:25:250:25:30

One day saying this, the other day saying that.

0:25:300:25:32

It's not good, really. You can't flip-flop every single day. Change your mind every single day,

0:25:320:25:37

and then completely throw the science out of the window.

0:25:370:25:41

Get on the bus, come on!

0:25:430:25:45

Rodney's not the only person I seem to have upset.

0:25:500:25:53

Charlotte hasn't been convinced by my experts either.

0:25:530:25:57

It's just one person. I can't just take one person's idea

0:25:590:26:03

over, like, hundreds of people. I can't do that in just one day.

0:26:030:26:09

I can't just change my mind.

0:26:090:26:11

But if you have an opinion, you have an opinion, you know?

0:26:110:26:14

It's the land of the free, home of the brave. That's how democracy works.

0:26:140:26:17

This one, he's starting to think... And I felt like when I met you,

0:26:170:26:23

you were pretty sure, and I understand you can't be...

0:26:230:26:26

you can't be sure 100% and I'm not sure 100%.

0:26:260:26:30

-No, me neither.

-But that is his prerogative.

0:26:300:26:32

I didn't understand how the buildings could collapse that way and he explained.

0:26:320:26:36

As a person who likes reason and logic and science, it suddenly made sense, and it was, oh!

0:26:360:26:40

At this moment, I have a right to be pissed off.

0:26:400:26:44

On this trip, Charlotte has been relying on Charlie to back her up,

0:26:450:26:49

but the search for the truth is beginning to affect their friendship.

0:26:490:26:53

And I'm feeling a bit guilty.

0:26:550:26:57

I think Charlotte's the most committed,

0:26:590:27:02

the most definitive in her opinions.

0:27:020:27:04

Charlie is very vocal, but I don't think this it's a criticism,

0:27:070:27:11

but I think Charlie's kind of changeable, you know?

0:27:110:27:15

It's a long drive down the eastern seaboard to the site of where the next hijacked plane hit,

0:27:210:27:27

the source of yet another conspiracy theory.

0:27:270:27:30

We're in Washington DC, the capital city

0:27:300:27:32

and home of the vast American Defence headquarters, The Pentagon.

0:27:320:27:37

At 9:38am, September 11th,

0:27:380:27:42

American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into The Pentagon.

0:27:420:27:46

-You see the planes come in?

-No. I didn't see no plane, didn't hear no plane.

0:27:460:27:50

Some of my five don't believe there was a plane at all.

0:27:500:27:53

They can't believe a Boeing 757 full of fuel and passengers

0:27:530:27:59

could leave so little wreckage and such a small exit hole in the side of The Pentagon.

0:27:590:28:04

I'm losing even Charlie again.

0:28:080:28:11

He's assembled us in his hotel room.

0:28:110:28:13

The hole that seems to have been punched through, right? This is the punch-out hole.

0:28:130:28:17

Now, what could cause a punch-out hole of that...

0:28:170:28:21

perfect spherical shape?

0:28:210:28:23

A punch out...

0:28:240:28:26

And people are starting to speculate

0:28:260:28:28

that perhaps this was a cruise missile that hit the Pentagon

0:28:280:28:32

as part of an internal attack on America.

0:28:320:28:35

Do you think that a missile could go in there, unnoticed by the general public?

0:28:350:28:41

Well, a missile is a small, very fast-moving thing.

0:28:410:28:44

Most people don't know the difference between a cruise missile engine

0:28:440:28:48

and an airliner engine, because who's listening out for that?

0:28:480:28:51

In 2006, the government was forced to release some CCTV footage,

0:28:510:28:56

which they claim shows the plane hitting the Pentagon.

0:28:560:29:00

My guys believe the images are too poor to prove anything.

0:29:000:29:04

It's hard to argue with that,

0:29:040:29:06

but they still think it was a US missile. I think that's nuts.

0:29:060:29:09

So to try to get their heads round this one,

0:29:110:29:13

I've managed to get them an audience with the Pentagon's Chief Engineer, Allyn Kilsheimer.

0:29:130:29:19

He was an eyewitness and one of the first people on the scene.

0:29:190:29:22

He should be able to tell us whether the Pentagon was hit by a plane or not.

0:29:220:29:27

Allyn's office wall is covered with letters of thanks

0:29:270:29:30

from the Bush White House.

0:29:300:29:32

This hasn't gone unnoticed by my conspiracy crew.

0:29:320:29:35

That one's Donald Rumsfeld.

0:29:350:29:37

"I, George Bush, by virtue of the authority vested in me

0:29:390:29:43

"by the constitution and laws of the United States..." Anyway, it's a letter from George Bush.

0:29:430:29:47

In this whole devastation, what remains of the plane were there?

0:29:490:29:54

When you think about the building, the Pentagon itself,

0:29:540:29:57

I saw parts of a plane, I saw melted parts of a plane

0:29:570:30:00

I saw parts of stewardesses, OK?

0:30:000:30:02

In the building. And they... One of the things they say is, like,

0:30:020:30:05

how can a plane make a round hole?

0:30:050:30:07

You have to understand how the explosions occur.

0:30:070:30:10

And this is a computer model of what happened.

0:30:100:30:13

OK, so this is the plane flying through the Pentagon,

0:30:140:30:17

and if you look at it,

0:30:170:30:19

you see how it shows the plane disintegrating as it goes through.

0:30:190:30:23

It went through three wings of the building.

0:30:250:30:28

Came out at the A&E drive, which is right there.

0:30:300:30:33

What was left of the plane came through, it was a big round circle,

0:30:340:30:38

which is why so many conspiracy people say it was a missile.

0:30:380:30:41

The small size of the hole can easily be explained,

0:30:430:30:47

because it is where the remnants of the plane came out.

0:30:470:30:50

Leaving almost all the debris and passengers inside.

0:30:520:30:55

What came out was what was left of the plane, which is the tail section.

0:30:580:31:03

-You saw that section yourself?

-Absolutely. Yes, sir.

0:31:030:31:05

But most of the people that I've heard about

0:31:050:31:09

who believe in these conspiracy theories

0:31:090:31:12

had not talked to anybody factually that was there.

0:31:120:31:15

'Shazin and Charlie seem convinced by the Chief Engineer.'

0:31:150:31:19

It's like a younger and older version of you!

0:31:190:31:22

'But Charlotte clearly is not buying my guy.'

0:31:240:31:27

He couldn't even show us parts of the plane!

0:31:270:31:29

I had such a different experience in there then you did.

0:31:290:31:33

The only reason I think he has a motive to lie

0:31:330:31:36

is because he's so closely connected with the people that I believe have made this a cover-up.

0:31:360:31:41

That young girl, clearly, when she walked in the room...

0:31:410:31:44

had a certain opinion when she walked in the room.

0:31:440:31:47

The look on her face was...

0:31:470:31:48

that she didn't want to hear a thing I was going to say.

0:31:480:31:52

Which is more important to you, the truth, or the right answer?

0:31:520:31:55

-Because they're two very different things.

-Who says what is the truth and what is the right answer?

0:31:550:32:00

From instinct, all I can go on is my instinct,

0:32:000:32:03

and if I, in my heart, believe he's not telling me the truth,

0:32:030:32:06

there's nothing he can say,

0:32:060:32:08

unless he can show me real proof of a plane. End of story. All right?

0:32:080:32:14

It was quite dodgy, and a bit sort of suspicious,

0:32:140:32:16

and I knew that from walking in and seeing the letter from Bush and from Rumsfeld on his wall.

0:32:160:32:21

Why do I have to take what he's saying as...?

0:32:210:32:24

But you could have been enquiring, like you have been on the rest of the trip,

0:32:240:32:28

-instead of sulking behind shades.

-I can do what I want,

0:32:280:32:30

just like he can do what he wants. He doesn't account to anybody.

0:32:300:32:35

-The guy was there, he was there!

-What do you mean, he was there? He saw no plane.

0:32:350:32:39

Do you think I'm going to believe someone

0:32:390:32:43

that I believe is behind the conspiracy that is in the pocket of the government?

0:32:430:32:46

No, fuck. Fuck, no. I don't like this....

0:32:460:32:50

'We're three-quarters of the way through the road trip and tensions are running high.'

0:32:500:32:54

'I've been booked to do a gig at a stand-up club and I've invited the gang along

0:33:000:33:04

'to see if a little bit of conspiracy humour can get to them.'

0:33:040:33:09

Last year, an orang-utan escaped from Dublin Zoo,

0:33:130:33:19

and in the newspaper, and I quote, his zookeeper said,

0:33:190:33:25

"We believe he was planning it for years."

0:33:250:33:28

LAUGHTER

0:33:280:33:31

They reverse-engineered his crime

0:33:310:33:33

and they found out over the last 15 years,

0:33:330:33:38

he'd been cultivating a tree to grow against the wall of his enclosure.

0:33:380:33:43

What the fuck kind of monkey Shawshank Redemption is that?!

0:33:430:33:47

LAUGHTER

0:33:470:33:48

PHONE RINGS

0:33:480:33:50

'Right in the middle of my gig, Rodney's phone goes off.

0:33:520:33:55

'Turns out his mother's caught up with him.

0:33:550:33:57

'She doesn't know he's into conspiracy theories, or even that he's in America.'

0:33:570:34:01

She's a bit worried and a bit anxious about where I am

0:34:030:34:06

and what I'm doing, what's going on.

0:34:060:34:08

Because it's all been... I've been a bit secretive about it.

0:34:080:34:11

I've not told many people what's going on. It might have caused issues

0:34:110:34:15

and I wouldn't have been able to come in the end, and I didn't want that to happen.

0:34:150:34:19

So I'm sort of being a bit incognito

0:34:190:34:21

in order to do what I've got to do.

0:34:210:34:24

What I want to do. And it's me juggling things.

0:34:240:34:28

We all like you now that you've brought Captain Groovy into the White House!

0:34:300:34:34

It all went a little bit dark ten years ago,

0:34:340:34:37

a couple of planes went into a building, it all got a bit miserable,

0:34:370:34:40

but we're back on top, right, brothers and sisters?

0:34:400:34:43

-CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

-We're back on top.

0:34:430:34:46

By 9:42am on September 11th,

0:34:590:35:01

three planes had already hit their targets

0:35:010:35:04

and a fourth, United 93, was feared to be flying straight at the White House.

0:35:040:35:09

This man, Ben Sliney, Head of Air Traffic Control,

0:35:090:35:12

gave the order to shut down American air space.

0:35:120:35:16

My conspiracy team want to know why American Air Force fighter jets, sent up that day,

0:35:160:35:21

failed to intercept the hijacked planes.

0:35:210:35:24

They think the US government must have been in on it.

0:35:240:35:26

'I've got Ben, now famous for playing himself

0:35:320:35:35

'in the feature film United 93, to tell them what happened.

0:35:350:35:40

'Much to Charlotte's delight, Charlie is now leading the attack.'

0:35:400:35:44

So in the United States, there is a system in place

0:35:440:35:48

that if a plane of any size goes off course for a while, military jets intercept them, yeah?

0:35:480:35:52

If you've done your homework, you'll know that I believe

0:35:520:35:57

we only had six interceptors available for the whole East Coast.

0:35:570:36:00

So we didn't...

0:36:000:36:02

Is that normal?

0:36:020:36:04

We had a lot of cutbacks in budget, and they closed a lot of squadrons,

0:36:040:36:09

and there were very few aircraft to send up for that type of mission.

0:36:090:36:14

It's budget dollars.

0:36:140:36:16

Given that President Bush was aware of a plan to hijack planes,

0:36:160:36:20

do you feel that aviation security should have been ramped up?

0:36:200:36:26

I think it was a frightful breakdown of security.

0:36:260:36:29

We in Air Traffic Control did not know what was going on.

0:36:290:36:32

No-one had enough of the big picture to actually put it together, I believe.

0:36:320:36:37

So, long story short,

0:36:370:36:38

you think 9/11 happened because the government wasn't talking to each other.

0:36:380:36:42

The various CIA, all these agencies, don't have lines of communication between themselves

0:36:420:36:48

and they could have figured it out, there was enough evidence

0:36:480:36:51

that they could have stopped it all before it started.

0:36:510:36:54

Given what we've been told about the investigations and what each agency knew,

0:36:540:36:58

I think it is very likely that it would have been prevented.

0:36:580:37:02

Wow. That's so great. Thank you so much for your information,

0:37:020:37:06

we really appreciate it, and your opinions.

0:37:060:37:10

There's been no accountability from anyone at all.

0:37:100:37:12

There's still evidence of a government cover-up, that's been admitted by a few people,

0:37:120:37:19

it was just now, there could be a government cover-up.

0:37:190:37:22

There's no "there COULD be a government cover-up", there HAS been a government cover-up.

0:37:220:37:27

They selectively hear things.

0:37:270:37:29

Their takeaway from that will be that the American government did 9/11.

0:37:290:37:33

That's what they just heard.

0:37:330:37:36

Spurred on by Ben Sliney, Rodney thinks if there was a cover-up,

0:37:360:37:41

others, like M15 and the Israeli Secret Service, must have been in on it too.

0:37:410:37:46

There's a lot of espionage going on in the world that we don't know about,

0:37:460:37:49

there's so much in the world going on that we don't know about.

0:37:490:37:52

What possible purpose?

0:37:520:37:54

It includes the Pakistani Secret Service, the Saudi Secret Service, it includes MI5.

0:37:540:37:58

It was called chatter.

0:37:580:38:00

So they all knew 9/11 was going to happen, my point is why did they not tell the US Government?

0:38:000:38:04

Dude, it happens all the time.

0:38:040:38:06

None of us are absolutely, positively...

0:38:060:38:08

Yes, we can! That is not how the world works!

0:38:080:38:12

-How do you know everything?

-Because that's not how the world works!

0:38:120:38:16

-We're human beings!

-We don't know.

0:38:160:38:18

That's the most ridiculous thing you ever said.

0:38:180:38:21

We don't know Santa does not exist, we can't be sure.

0:38:210:38:24

Santa! You're going to bring in Santa Claus?!

0:38:240:38:27

How do we know he doesn't exist? Who here's been to the North Pole?

0:38:270:38:31

-This is getting silly.

-Oh, my God! You're just taking the piss.

0:38:310:38:34

-I am taking the piss out of you, because it's ludicrous!

-You're talking about Santa.

0:38:340:38:39

< I'm done, I'm done.

0:38:390:38:41

You're talking about...

0:38:410:38:43

I'm absolutely done with this, you don't make any sense.

0:38:430:38:46

It's like everything about this 9/11 crap, conspiracy nuts...

0:38:460:38:51

You know, they have an end goal,

0:38:540:38:56

and then they fit their silly jigsaw to make it fit.

0:38:560:39:00

I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle, but I've still got one more chance.

0:39:130:39:16

We're off to the site where the last plane, United 93, crashed.

0:39:210:39:25

This is the celebrated flight where the passengers fought back

0:39:280:39:30

and some made calls to their loved ones,

0:39:300:39:33

but according to some of my guys, the plane didn't exist at all.

0:39:330:39:37

At 10:03am, the first crash investigators arrived on the scene

0:39:430:39:47

and found a large hole, but no bodies and no plane.

0:39:470:39:50

My understanding is that the pieces are no larger than the phonebook.

0:39:500:39:53

It does seem a bit strange for a plane to disappear,

0:39:530:39:57

but for our conspiracy theorists, it's fuel to their fire.

0:39:570:40:02

The coroner, Mr Miller, who works at the FBI, neither he

0:40:020:40:05

nor nobody else knows what happened and caused Flight 93 to go down.

0:40:050:40:09

This is from the coroner of Flight 93.

0:40:090:40:12

He himself does not know.

0:40:120:40:15

The wide displacement of the debris found miles out...

0:40:150:40:18

Basically, everything is speculation. It's all speculation.

0:40:180:40:22

No-one knows what happened with Flight 93.

0:40:220:40:24

Air crash investigator Greg wants to prove to Rodney

0:40:270:40:30

and the others that there really was a plane.

0:40:300:40:34

Fortunately, they were able to find the black boxes, that is

0:40:340:40:37

the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder.

0:40:370:40:40

And the airplane went in at a 40-45 degree angle into the ground upside down.

0:40:400:40:46

The sad thing is is that the human body is like a water balloon.

0:40:460:40:50

And so at a high speed impact,

0:40:500:40:53

the human explodes - as does the airplane.

0:40:530:40:56

And so you won't find recognisable parts of the passengers and the crew on that airplane.

0:40:560:41:04

One other thing is that as the airplane went in, of course,

0:41:040:41:08

this part stops because the ground acts as resistance,

0:41:080:41:11

but the rest of the airplane still has a lot of energy and collapses into this big crater.

0:41:110:41:15

That's why a lot of the witnesses said that the impact crater was very shallow,

0:41:150:41:21

but actually, the airplane had gone in almost 40 feet and then the dirt collapsed in on top of it.

0:41:210:41:27

Greg thinks the simple approach to science may convince them.

0:41:290:41:33

Getting them to use flour and stones could prove to them how a plane can disappear completely.

0:41:330:41:38

This one is actually where the rock went in,

0:41:390:41:44

it displaced the flour out and then collapsed back in

0:41:440:41:47

and actually covered up the entire rock.

0:41:470:41:49

Next, with eggs, he shows them how something can shatter into tiny pieces.

0:41:490:41:55

Now you see the debris has spread out.

0:41:550:41:57

And with water bombs, how debris can scatter over a wide area.

0:41:570:42:02

If you saw the splash...

0:42:020:42:04

..you see how much splash area is covered?

0:42:040:42:07

That's because that higher velocity will take the lighter water particles

0:42:070:42:12

and throw them further. The same with the airplane.

0:42:120:42:15

High speed velocity, you're going to get that big impact crater,

0:42:150:42:19

but the smaller flotsam, or debris from inside the airplane

0:42:190:42:22

will be flung further out.

0:42:220:42:25

And that's why we have debris covering 70 acres out in that field.

0:42:250:42:29

We know for a fact...

0:42:290:42:31

..that the aeroplane was intact as it went into the ground,

0:42:310:42:35

and that it was most likely that the pilot who was flying the airplane...

0:42:350:42:39

..actually rolled the airplane and caused it to crash into the ground.

0:42:390:42:43

It was very... there was a lot of pseudo-science.

0:42:500:42:52

There was basically... we had the water bombs and the eggs.

0:42:520:42:55

-It's not pseudo-science.

-It is!

0:42:550:42:57

The physics and the thermo-fluid dynamics of an egg...

0:42:570:43:00

We're talking about a completely different scenario.

0:43:000:43:04

Greg's physics gets the two sides of the bus arguing.

0:43:040:43:07

Some of them still aren't convinced there was a plane.

0:43:070:43:10

We would like something more tangible.

0:43:100:43:12

Well, of course he's not going to get a bloody 757 and crash it into the field. It's impossible!

0:43:120:43:18

There's one here!

0:43:180:43:21

But the clincher for me is the passengers' phone calls to their families.

0:43:210:43:24

"Hi baby..."

0:43:240:43:28

It's Shazin who's about to challenge me on this one.

0:43:290:43:32

So a lot of people think that you can't make...

0:43:320:43:36

phone calls on a plane,

0:43:360:43:37

but I don't know how this science works

0:43:370:43:40

because we're still not able... we're still not allowed to use our phones on the plane.

0:43:400:43:46

You possibly could have done it in 2001 but not...

0:43:460:43:48

..above 30,000 feet and 42,000 feet...

0:43:480:43:51

..like it has been on the data recorded.

0:43:510:43:53

So are you saying the satellite's completely different?

0:43:530:43:56

There's no such thing as satellites back then. It was all wire towers on the ground.

0:43:560:44:00

-It's impossible.

-How do you know it's impossible?

0:44:000:44:02

I'm not saying anything. Don't put words in my mouth!

0:44:020:44:05

Technically, on the scientific side, it's impossible.

0:44:050:44:08

-We'll agree to disagree.

-But that's not the point.

0:44:080:44:10

It's just scientific fact. That's all I'm trying to say. Let's be empirical about it.

0:44:100:44:14

Let's be empirical about this! Let's get rid the emotion

0:44:140:44:17

and let's look at it as a scientific point of view.

0:44:170:44:22

A lady here talking about her son. She felt the conversation was a bit strange.

0:44:240:44:29

Charlotte is suggesting the phone calls made by passengers on United 93

0:44:290:44:34

were in fact faked by reviewing this interview with one of the victims, Mark Bingham's mother.

0:44:340:44:40

So I'll just play that for you now.

0:44:400:44:42

I get on the phone and he said, "Hi, mum, this is Mark Bingham."

0:44:420:44:47

And he says, "I want to let you know that I love you."

0:44:500:44:54

"And I'm flying...

0:44:540:44:57

"And there are three men that say they have a bomb.

0:44:570:45:01

And I said, "Well who are they, Mark?"

0:45:010:45:03

And he repeated that he loved me, and then the phone went dead.

0:45:030:45:07

What I find fascinating about that video is that he says his full name.

0:45:090:45:13

I don't know if you've ever called your parents and said, "Hi, mum. It's Charlotte Scott-Hayes here."

0:45:130:45:18

..ever in your life. I've never introduced myself to my mother with my full name before.

0:45:180:45:22

And the second thing is, if you notice,

0:45:220:45:25

she asks him direct questions and he never answered a direct question.

0:45:250:45:28

In fact, he repeated what he said before so...

0:45:280:45:31

There's people saying if it was fake, you'd just have some standard answers.

0:45:310:45:37

So what we want to find out is if it's possible at all

0:45:370:45:41

to fake someone's voice, record it,

0:45:410:45:43

and play it over the phone and have it seem like it's come from the air.

0:45:430:45:48

Dr George Papcun is one of the inventors of voice morphing technology.

0:45:480:45:53

He's taken an example of Shazin's voice.

0:45:530:45:56

I think everyone wants to be optimistic.

0:45:560:45:59

When you hear of a tragedy, you want to think that the people...

0:45:590:46:03

Then he makes her say something she's never said.

0:46:030:46:07

So look, I made her say this.

0:46:070:46:08

I think everyone wants to disappear and vanish.

0:46:080:46:11

Oh, my God!

0:46:130:46:15

The results are very convincing.

0:46:150:46:17

-That is so scary.

-That's very, very scary.

-That is so scary.

0:46:170:46:20

So it can be done. So there's some basis to Charlotte's suspicions.

0:46:200:46:25

-If both sides of the conversation were faked...

-Right.

0:46:250:46:29

-..if it really wasn't ever answered by a relative...

-Right.

0:46:290:46:34

..I think you're right. I think it could have been faked.

0:46:340:46:37

But I said "if". This is crucial.

0:46:370:46:39

In that regard, if somehow they were able to get Mark Bingham's voice.

0:46:390:46:44

Maybe they have a recorded phone conversation.

0:46:440:46:46

Even Shazin, the most reasonable of the group, thinks the phone calls could have been edited.

0:46:460:46:51

Charlotte is adamant they could have faked Mark's half of the phone call,

0:46:510:46:54

but for her and Shazin's theory to be right,

0:46:540:46:58

they would have to have used that recording in a live conversation between Mark and his mother.

0:46:580:47:04

Can you show us how plausible it is to fake it where one person is a close intimate relative

0:47:040:47:11

and then you're doing a fake recording of that person?

0:47:110:47:15

Different bits of speech on the sound board and you click on the buttons.

0:47:150:47:18

Have you not... Do you know about sound boards?

0:47:180:47:21

Sure, sure. I think in real time

0:47:210:47:24

it is not practical, and probably not realistically possible.

0:47:240:47:29

Look at what I had to do for... Shazin.

0:47:300:47:36

I had to do take a prior existing recording,

0:47:360:47:38

I had to cut things out,

0:47:380:47:42

switch them around, and then recreate what Shazin said.

0:47:420:47:45

I didn't do that here in real time.

0:47:450:47:48

-Yeah.

-And that, I think, cannot be done in any realistic way.

0:47:480:47:53

My last chance at convincing them they're wrong

0:47:530:47:56

is to get them to talk to the person on the other end of the line,

0:47:560:47:59

Mark Bingham's mother.

0:47:590:48:01

-Hello!

-How you going?

0:48:190:48:22

How are you? I'm Alice Hoagland. How are you?

0:48:220:48:26

-Hello, I'm Shazin.

-Shazin.

0:48:260:48:29

-I'm Rodney.

-Hello, Rodney. How are you?

0:48:290:48:31

I'm fine thanks.

0:48:310:48:32

Emily. Nice to meet you.

0:48:320:48:34

-Hello, Emily.

-You all right?

0:48:340:48:36

Pretty blue eyes. It's a pretty emotional place. I know that.

0:48:360:48:40

Yeah, it's really emotional.

0:48:400:48:42

-It's more emotional for you than it is for me.

-Oh, I'll get there.

0:48:420:48:46

I guess it must be have been kind of unusual

0:48:470:48:49

because you and the other families were just, I suppose...

0:48:490:48:52

getting about your day, living your lives, and all of a sudden you're...

0:48:520:48:56

..thrown into this massive global story.

0:48:560:49:00

It began to be surreal right away.

0:49:000:49:02

I answered the phone and I heard Mark's voice,

0:49:020:49:05

and he said, "Mum, this is Mark Bingham."

0:49:050:49:07

Had he ever introduced himself like that before to you?

0:49:070:49:12

Well, on occasion. And people have made quite a to-do about that.

0:49:120:49:16

One of the persistent rumours is that what I heard was...

0:49:160:49:19

..a computer-generated voice,

0:49:190:49:21

that no son would call up his mother

0:49:210:49:23

and say, "Mum, this Mark Bingham."

0:49:230:49:25

And I was puzzling about it,

0:49:250:49:27

but I realised that he was a public relations man,

0:49:270:49:30

he was used to talking to people by introducing himself on the phone

0:49:300:49:34

like, "Hello, this is Mark Bingham."

0:49:340:49:36

It was what came out of his mouth

0:49:360:49:38

when he was trying hard to be calm and composed and talk to his mum.

0:49:380:49:43

I understand why people would be concerned about stories they read on the internet.

0:49:430:49:47

The internet is something like the Wild West,

0:49:470:49:49

and people can get on there with very few credentials and not very many brains and say whatever they want to.

0:49:490:49:55

I don't think there's anything suspicious about him saying his full name.

0:49:550:49:59

-No.

-Is there any doubt in your mind that it was your boy you were speaking to?

0:49:590:50:04

Not a bit. Not a bit.

0:50:040:50:05

As a matter of fact, I was trying to think of something intelligent to say and...

0:50:070:50:12

..and then we were cut off,

0:50:130:50:16

and I dialled Mark's cell phone number

0:50:160:50:19

and left him two messages and...

0:50:190:50:23

it went something like this,

0:50:230:50:24

"Mark, this is your mum. It's a terrorist attack and you've got to do what you can do...

0:50:240:50:29

"..and get some weapons together and make a run. You're not going to get much help from on the ground.

0:50:290:50:34

"I love you, sweetie. Good Luck. Good bye!"

0:50:340:50:37

And my messages to Mark were numbers 41 and 42...

0:50:400:50:47

..of a whole bunch of messages that were left for him that he hadn't received.

0:50:470:50:51

And then, from listening to the cockpit voice recording,

0:50:520:50:55

clearly they were! They were fighting.

0:50:550:50:58

And what I could hear was a group of about four, five, six, seven...

0:50:580:51:04

..men charging forward.

0:51:040:51:09

I can just visualise Mark leaping over the seats...

0:51:090:51:12

..and letting the other guys run up the aisle...

0:51:120:51:16

..and you can hear them really close,

0:51:160:51:19

"In the cockpit! In the cockpit! In the cockpit!"

0:51:190:51:21

They were already in the cockpit, at this stage?

0:51:210:51:24

Well, that's what we don't know. I don't know.

0:51:240:51:27

We brought Alice to meet you

0:51:290:51:31

because, so could first hand have, someone face to face could say,

0:51:310:51:36

"Yes, I listened to my loved one

0:51:360:51:38

"that day on an airphone. Yes, I completely believe it was them."

0:51:380:51:42

I have no doubt, I have no doubt in my mind at all

0:51:420:51:45

that that's what she believes,

0:51:450:51:46

I have no doubt in my mind that's what she believes.

0:51:460:51:49

Well, do you think she was duped?

0:51:490:51:52

It's a possibility,

0:51:520:51:53

its a definite possibility.

0:51:530:51:55

It can be done we have the technology to do that.

0:51:550:51:58

It could be done very easily I probably could do it myself.

0:51:580:52:01

OK fine.

0:52:010:52:03

She's a lovely lady, but, um...

0:52:040:52:09

but, for example, if it was someone I knew or someone in my family

0:52:090:52:12

I would be relentlessly fighting to get all the evidence out

0:52:120:52:15

and to have someone account,

0:52:150:52:16

everyone should be held accountable, for me personally.

0:52:160:52:19

You know, I would fight tooth and nail to get justice.

0:52:210:52:24

I find it strange that she was...

0:52:240:52:26

maybe she thinks it's not going to happen,

0:52:260:52:28

maybe she's lost hope. Nothing that sad -

0:52:280:52:30

people in the US government could have prevented it?

0:52:300:52:33

should have? And if they didn't they should be held accountable,

0:52:340:52:38

heads should roll.

0:52:380:52:39

I'm not putting anyone down but we're having a fricking debate,

0:52:510:52:55

if I disagree with you I'm going to say I disagree with you that's how a debate works.

0:52:550:53:00

You're making it sound like I'm being an idiot.

0:53:000:53:03

-I'm not saying that you're...

-You're shouting at me!

0:53:030:53:05

Then shout at me back, shout at me back.

0:53:050:53:07

-It just drives me fucking crazy.

-I have a loud voice, Charlotte.

0:53:070:53:13

It's like you are either crying or screaming or happy!

0:53:130:53:16

I don't have a heart of stone like you who can stand in front of someone

0:53:160:53:20

who lost their son and then someone else that says it didn't happen.

0:53:200:53:23

Oh, man, has anyone got any Prozac?

0:53:230:53:27

You've driven me so, so crazy at points.

0:53:270:53:29

It doesn't matter who cries when or whatever this whole thing is really emotional

0:53:290:53:34

and if she wants to cry in front of a mother who lost her son it's fine.

0:53:340:53:37

-It's OK, I never said she shouldn't.

-Well, that's the thing.

0:53:370:53:40

Yeah, I'm sorry if I'm not cold and not crying.

0:53:400:53:43

-Yeah all right whatever, whatever.

-I apologise

0:53:430:53:47

We're at the end of our trip and I want to know

0:53:490:53:51

whether I've succeeded in changing any of their minds.

0:53:510:53:54

Rodney remains convinced it's a conspiracy.

0:53:560:53:58

I think they knew about it and they let it happen.

0:53:580:54:00

I seemed to have failed with charlotte too.

0:54:000:54:03

You believe the American Government, or possibly higher,

0:54:030:54:05

in brackets, Illuminati, were behind 9/11.

0:54:050:54:09

Right, yep.

0:54:090:54:11

Erm, there was no phone calls from the planes?

0:54:110:54:13

Yeah, I still believe in that.

0:54:130:54:15

OK. Er, there was no plane went into the Pentagon,

0:54:150:54:18

it was in fact a missile.

0:54:180:54:19

Yeah, I'm pretty much 80% on that point, I'm still debating that.

0:54:190:54:23

Which one?

0:54:230:54:24

That there wasn't a plane.

0:54:240:54:26

Emily is sitting on the fence.

0:54:260:54:29

I have this-these people telling me one thing

0:54:290:54:31

and these people telling me another thing and I'm in the middle.

0:54:310:54:35

I don't know what to believe because, quite simply,

0:54:350:54:39

we don't know, we don't know what happened.

0:54:390:54:41

Shaz has come to a conclusion too.

0:54:410:54:44

The interesting thing about the trip for me,

0:54:460:54:48

being the least conspiratorial,

0:54:480:54:51

was that people with conspiracy type opinions

0:54:510:54:56

or the people on the trip are...

0:54:560:54:58

..very suspicious

0:54:590:55:03

and I think that that isn't very healthy.

0:55:030:55:07

But Charlie has totally changed his mind.

0:55:070:55:10

I found my personal truth and you don't have to agree with me

0:55:110:55:15

but I can't push propaganda for ideas that I no longer believe in

0:55:150:55:19

and that's, that's what I do so I just need to basically

0:55:190:55:22

take it on the chin, admit I was wrong,

0:55:220:55:24

be humble about it and just carry on.

0:55:240:55:26

The five of them, Charlie, you know,

0:55:280:55:30

the most astonishing really,

0:55:300:55:32

he's completely changed

0:55:320:55:34

from an ardent

0:55:340:55:36

conspiritorialist to

0:55:380:55:39

a weary realist, I suppose, which would be more my position on the thing.

0:55:400:55:44

Its seems in all probability to me,

0:55:440:55:46

and saddening probability to me,

0:55:460:55:49

a bunch of fanatics got through

0:55:490:55:52

because the American government

0:55:520:55:54

didn't see it coming,

0:55:540:55:56

weren't ready for it,

0:55:560:55:58

and in many ways were tragically inept.

0:55:580:56:00

Despite our differences, here at the Pentagon memorial to those who died,

0:56:010:56:05

one thing unites us all -

0:56:050:56:06

it's the sense of tragedy and loss of 2973 innocent people

0:56:060:56:12

on that terrible day in America. September the 11th 2001.

0:56:120:56:17

Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd

0:56:310:56:34

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0:56:340:56:37

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