June Brown: Respect Your Elders

'My name is June Brown.'

Sorry, love!

For 26 years I've played Dot Cotton in Eastenders.

I was born in 1927, so I'm 85.

You may not be as old as me, but one day you might be.

When I was young I didn't consider being old.

You think you'll live for ever, you know.

Britain has an ageing population, as we know.

But what worries me is that

we as a nation seem to care less and less,

have less and less admiration and respect for older people.

The older generation, they do feel isolated, they feel unwanted,

they feel uninteresting, they feel unvalued, dull.

I want to find out what's gone wrong.

I don't want to make you cry.

I know. Thank you, June, very much.

It's really quite appalling, isn't it?

What does it mean to care, and be cared for?

Ah, it's the wedding.

Do you ever feel that you are a burden.

Yeah.

What sort of care would you like to think that you would have?

I know my offspring will have something to say about my future, now.

So, if you suddenly can't walk, and can't get out of bed,

and can't feed yourself...

-I'd like to die.

-What sort of people would you like...?

-Just put me down.

But I must try to find out if we can change our society

so that it's more respectful to its elders once again.

It is in our interest to remember that one day everybody will be old.

That is... Oh, my eyes, oh, dear. Oh, this is brilliant. Turmeric.

Now, this is for your mind. Kelp seaweed. Iron. Vitamin C.

Yeah, I do take that.

Oh, Royal Jelly, it's frightfully good for your femininity.

So this is very good for increasing your bosom.

I've got one that's 36709, but I don't think it's that one.

This is like a spark plug.

-June, do you take all these pills?

-Yes.

-What?

-Proof positive.

You must spend half your day taking these.

I can take those with my breakfast. I can take four or five at a time.

Looking at all these pills, June, it makes me think that you're worried about dying.

No, it's nothing to do with... It's being healthy.

That's what it is, is being healthy.

It's not getting ill and doubling up and having poor bones.

I know I'm very fortunate.

I'm a working actress, healthy, as far as I know,

and I'm surrounded by a large family.

My daughters, Louise, Sophie, Chloe and Naomi,

and my son Billy, with their children, live locally.

I see more of my daughters Naomi and Louise as they share the job of being my personal assistant.

-Phoebes!

-Hello.

-Hello.

I suppose I still live in an extended family

where grandparents, parents and children are still together.

What does Grandmum want? I'm the only one that asked.

What happens as you get older, they treat you like a child, like a baby.

-Don't get old, I tell you.

-I'll try not to.

You see, I think that the extended family is the natural way to be brought up,

and I had this great fortune of being very close to my grandfather

and grandmother, my mother's parents, and going every day to see them.

When I was growing up, the extended family always looked after its own.

So when my 85-year-old grandfather was widowed,

he came and lived with our family.

My daughters are now talking about what might happen to me,

but I don't want to think about it.

You cannot contemplate what is going to happen to you,

and I trust that I will die well.

So, if you suddenly can't walk and can't get out of bed, and can't feed yourself...

How would you like...?

What sort of care would you like to think that you would have?

How would you like to live that last week if you were...?

Here or in a care home?

I most certainly wouldn't like to go into a care home.

That is absolutely certain. I like my own home.

I don't want to consider going into a care home myself,

but as so many people do, it seems a good place to begin.

My daughter Louise and I are visiting one near where we live.

I think this is an ideal opportunity for us to find out what care homes are really like.

Let's look at the options. What, you know...

Before the Second World War, older people who needed care

were looked after in hospitals, some former workhouses, mainly at home.

It was the founding of the NHS in 1948 that meant the state

starting running the care home as we know it today.

There are now over 400,000 people in care homes in the UK,

and that figure is expected to double over the next 30 years.

-Hello, you must be June. Welcome to Warrengate.

-And you are Kathy...

-Kathy Paling, the manager.

-Thank you.

Would you like to follow me?

Mary had a stroke three years ago and is now bedridden

and has been living here for a year.

-So much younger, doesn't she?

-In real life? Yes.

-Yeah, you look so much younger.

-Actually, I'm older than Dot.

You look very cheerful and well.

Excited about somebody like this coming and happening to me.

-Isn't that nice!

-Cos I'm mainly in my room.

-You mainly stay here.

-Yeah, because I can't walk.

-You're in good health, aren't you? Look very well.

-Touch wood.

Old pagan custom, touch wood.

Do you remember about care homes in the '50s?

I can't remember. Children looked after their parents in them days, didn't they?

-Yes, they did.

-Because families were much together then.

-The family life is going, isn't it? It's gone.

-Yes.

Have you got any ideas why?

I think, my own idea is because women go to work now.

In my day you didn't go to work,

you were looked on as your husband couldn't keep you.

-Yes, there was that, wasn't there?

-Yeah, there was a slur about it.

We're coming to look at the care homes, just in case, as they say.

-This is very good.

-You enjoy it?

-They're very good to me here.

-Are they?

Well, I can tell from your face. Because you're lively.

My children made sure where I came was going to be one of the best.

-Yes.

-What do you feel about care homes in general?

It probably is an improvement if there's something wrong with you,

you know, if you've got diabetes, or if you've got Alzheimer's, say.

-Definitely, in that way. I would much rather be at home.

-Right.

You know, I think you all want to be at your own home with your own children round you,

it's easier for them to come and see me.

40% of residents in care homes suffer from some form of dementia.

I know what a terrible disease this is because my husband Bob suffered from Lewy body dementia

until he died aged 71.

What happened with Bob first of all

was that he began not to be able to add up change.

And then he began to hallucinate.

He began to see people who weren't there, but unpleasant people,

people he didn't know, but people looking at him.

My daughter Louise was his sole carer.

I cared for my father during the final two years of his dementia.

I felt that it made me a lot stronger.

Because until then, I'd only had to really deal with myself, emotionally.

So my husband was fortunate that he could be cared for at home.

Another resident is Margaret, who is in the advanced stages of dementia.

It all became too much for her husband, Brian, when she kept falling over.

I'm very interested in, you know, how you feel about Margaret being here.

The choice was really taken out of my hands, which was perhaps good.

Erm... I mean, it didn't stop me feeling terribly guilty,

but I didn't have a choice, so...

-And so the difference here...

-Oh, it's amazing, I'm no longer her carer.

Two in one, and two five,

and that has brought, that has brought that in to the home...

Has it?

While, you know, the end...

Eh?

-It's fair...

-You have to learn this new language.

It's a special language.

How would you feel about going into a care home? Something like this, or...?

Well, I think this is a very nice one, this is...

It seems very well run. The people that I've met are happy here, which is good.

-It's not something I'd...

-Want?

..want, or...

If you were maybe ill or couldn't look after yourself on your own.

Yes. One doesn't really like to think about that, does one?

No, one sticks one's head in the sand and goes away.

Sweep it under the carpet, don't you?

There's a photograph of Scarlet O'Hara in the corridor.

That's it exactly. "I'll think about it tomorrow", she said.

THEY LAUGH

SHE MOANS

Shhh. You're all right.

It's just lovely to hear her talk. It's great.

Rather than just sit there. It's great.

It feels like it's very hard for June

to even contemplate her sort of mortality.

As good as this care home is this really is one of my worst fears,

ending my days staring at the television.

She has a...

She has a barrier.

She can't bear to think about being dependent.

She's never been dependent on anybody.

She's been the carer, the provider.

What if she was, you know, incontinent?

My father was incontinent. I've...you know...

I've been more intimate with my father

than I would maybe have wished in that respect

and you do what you have to do,

you wipe their bottoms, you clean up their grazes,

you feed them, you...

You do what you have to do.

SHE YAWNS

JUNE LAUGHS

How was that for you?

SHE LAUGHS

Sometime in the future, I think it would be very sensible for us

to consider how you might need help, assistance in later years.

You can see my face.

Hopefully, someone will do the same for me.

-You know, it's not...

-Oh, yes, I know because I've got all the children and you haven't.

It's not just about you but it happens to be about you

because you are the matriarch, you'd like to stay in your own home.

I don't want to be looked after at all.

But you need someone to help you get dressed in the morning or, you know...

-Crikey!

-Yes, but why shouldn't we discuss these things?

Well, that's enough now. I've had enough of it now.

-I don't want to talk about it any more. We've discussed it enough.

-OK.

All my children understand that, for me, the thought of needing care

is something that I do not wish to discuss.

Do you think she's enjoying this documentary?

I think she's finding it interesting.

Yes, I think it's just so different for her that it's...

I think it might make her think a bit about her latter years.

She won't talk about going into care, will she?

BOTH: No.

Why not?

Well, she can't bear the thought of being not independent

and she just has this thing that she thinks

she's going to die in her sleep.

Do you like working for your mother?

Yes, it's very satisfying.

THEY LAUGH

Sometimes it can be very interesting.

THEY LAUGH

It can be very interesting!

My children do keep telling me if anything happens to me

they'll look after me, but I'm not sure that's what I want.

I'd hate to be a burden to anyone.

I'm on my way to see my dear friend

and EastEnders on-screen husband, John Barden.

Since suffering a massive stroke five years ago,

John's been looked after at home by his wife, Enda.

We got on very well, you know. We got to understand each other.

We could give each other notes without offence.

We have a very good rapport.

We had very good timing together and we laughed quite a lot,

which is nice.

I mean, to be serious and laugh when you're working is the best way.

After refusing his advances for a year,

Dot finally succumbed and married Jim Branning in 2001.

Dorothy, will you marry me?

Yeah.

Yeah, I will.

-Hello.

-Hi, June.

-You look wonderful! As usual!

-Oh, and you've done yourself up a treat.

THEY LAUGH

-You scrub up well. Where's John?

-He's in there, yes.

Hello. Oh, you're looking at my dress, are you?

I wore this especially for you.

-Oh!

-I know you like nice clothes.

-Yeah!

Now John, who's 73, can't walk, nor talk and is bedridden.

Enda does everything for him.

John, would you like tea or coffee?

-Yeah.

-Cup of tea?

-Yeah. Oh. Yeah.

-Which? Tea?

-Yeah.

-Tea or coffee?

-Yeah, all right, yeah.

-Go on, say it.

-Tea.

-Oh, fuck off.

-John! John! You mustn't swear!

Very naughty!

Will you say tea for me?

-Tea.

-Tea.

-Merci.

-Tea.

-Come here and have a look.

This one was when we were... The proposal.

THEY LAUGH

-Aw, it's the wedding. Yeah, I know.

-Oh, God. Oh, dear, dear, dear.

I'll hold it and you point cos we can't... Oh! Is that me?

HE MOANS

We're five years into the stroke in June and you know,

he hasn't got any better.

Cor! Facking hell, that...

THEY LAUGH

John was a very talented man.

As well as an excellent actor, he was a superb artist.

This is one of the last things he did.

So sad how clever he was and he can't do any of this any more.

-It's...

-He tried with his left hand

but when you are so capable with your right hand...

I don't know. I couldn't even write with my left hand,

let alone do any drawings or paintings.

When did John have the stroke?

Well, we'd been to the rubbish dump cos we were moving house

and he'd gone outside to have a cigarette.

I was sitting reading the paper

but thought it was too quiet for too long and I went to the study

and he wasn't in there, and I went outside and I found him lying there.

He didn't have the cigarette.

I did think he was dead but he wasn't, and I rang 999

and I did say, "I think he's had a stroke", and that was it.

John requires round-the-clock care, leaving Enda no time for herself.

It's like having a baby.

You're still listening out in case he makes any noise

and I do have to because sometimes he has

accidents in the middle of the night and you have to get up

and see to him because I won't let him lie in anything.

I will make sure he's clean.

As you've seen yourself, he's...he's going the wrong way.

Going the wrong way now.

DOORBELL RINGS

John's main pleasure now is when Enda's grandson Harry visits.

Hello!

-Hello!

-Are you going to say bye-bye to Mummy?

Give Mummy a kiss bye-bye.

Bye-bye. Thank you!

Hello, Grandpa! Hello, Grandpa!

HE SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY

He's not very well, Grandpa.

Aw!

Are you going to give Grandpa a big kiss?

Yeah? Where's Grandpa's big kiss?

Good boy!

-How does Harry get on with John?

-Oh, great. Give him a cuddle.

This is what children need,

to grow up within the family circle with the older generation.

This is what used to happen. I always went to my grand...

Grandchildren are a new lease of life.

This is one thing that takes my mind off my every day chores with John,

having Harry here, you know.

I'm so worried about what looking after John is doing to Enda.

Like me, I know a lot of older people share a fear

of being a burden to their family.

-I want to ask you something, John.

-Right.

It's quite a personal question

and if you don't want to answer it, then just don't.

How does being in this state make you feel?

-Are you content?

-Yeah.

Happy?

This is really personal,

and just shake your head if you don't want to answer,

do you ever feel that you are a burden to Enda?

Yeah.

-Well, you're not to her because she loves you very much.

-Yeah.

HE SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY

All right.

Thank you. Thanks for answering that.

HE SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY

-Oh, dear.

-Oh, dear, dear, dear.

-I've got to go now, we've got to be off.

-Oh!

-Yeah, we've got to be off.

-Oh!

-Oh, dear.

-Oh.

-Bye-bye, John.

-All right.

-OK.

-All right.

-Lot's of love, June, and safe home. Safe home.

-Thank you.

-Bye-bye!

-Thank you for doing this for me. Bye-bye, Harry.

Aw! Aw!

Enda's doing an extraordinary job looking after John

but it's taking its toll on her.

Around half a million older people

have their health needs met by professional carers.

I'm going to spend the day with Julie.

She's been caring for the elderly for the last 22 years.

Julie, how do you think, with all your experience,

how do you think people in this country treat older people?

-Appallingly.

-Yeah.

-They just get forgotten.

Elderly people get forgotten.

Two things my nan always said to all us children when we were growing up,

"It costs nothing for your Ps and Qs" and, "You must respect you elders."

And I tell that to my children.

It made me go quite shivery for a moment.

I had a shudder go through me. But it's true.

-I lost my nan 21 years ago and I miss her to this day now.

-There you are.

And I go round, doing my job, caring for the ladies

and gents I care for, the way I would care for own nan.

-Yes.

-And that gives me my satisfaction of my job.

That's what I'm saying, that's where...

Either you were a caring person, you could have been both,

but that's where you learn to care.

You can't just do it as a job though, June.

-After you.

-Thank you, darling.

We're going to visit Margaret.

She's 82 and is one of Julie's regulars.

Morning, Margaret! Are you all right?

-I hope I'm not interrupting so early in the morning.

-June...

It's a pleasure to meet you.

-Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to meet you.

-Oh, lovely.

Do you mind if I sit on your arm because I'm sort of more level?

Margaret, I'm going to get your porridge ready while you have

a chat with June because you've got to take your insulin, haven't you?

OK, love. Yeah.

-She seems an awfully nice person.

-Absolutely wonderful.

I can't do anything for myself now.

I had a private one and she used to come in and look after me

but I can't afford it any more.

No, no.

-All my savings have gone now, you know.

-Here's your breakfast.

-I'll get out of the way.

-OK. Thank you, June.

Now she's used all her savings, the state helps fund Margaret's care.

She is allocated 30 minutes of carer Julie's time.

It might be a half hour easier if you were very rude and didn't stop

-and talk and make sure that they was OK.

-Well, that's the point.

Cos if you don't get to know your clients, then you don't know

when they're poorly and off colour.

And Margaret even pays for her own pads.

-Her own...?

-Pads.

-Oh, I know what you mean.

-Just for safety, you know.

-She's not really...

-That's disgraceful!

-That's it.

But then if she gets assessed by the nurse as incontinent,

the nurse comes in and assesses what liquid goes in, what liquid

comes out and magics up a number, "Oh, you can have three pads a day!"

Margaret has decided to pay for her own pads rather than be assessed.

I had no idea I would be like this when I got to 80.

I'm sorry, guys, but we're going to have to...

We need to start going on to our next one.

Not finished, but the next person also has a real serious need

that I need to attend to.

And if I had more time...

Yeah, she would stay with me. I know she would.

I get told what time I can have with the ladies and gents that I come to

and it breaks my heart to walk away, knowing that Margaret's

just finished her breakfast, hasn't got washed, hasn't got dressed.

-I don't want to make you cry.

-I know. Thank you, June, very much.

-It's really quite appalling, isn't it?

-It is.

It's horrible leaving somebody like that,

knowing that you could do so much more for them.

Next we go to see a former nurse called Joyce who is terminally ill.

Morning, Joyce!

Anyone who is about to die receives palliative care,

which is fully funded by the state.

Unaware of how to get this funding, Joyce has been paying for her

own care but after a series of assessments,

finally, she got her allowance.

The palliative care started two years ago

and it's taken two years to get it really organised.

I gave my life to the NHS.

I started nursing in 1946

but now I need it, it's not there.

It's been very, very nice to meet you. Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

Yes, and I hope you have a lovely, easy next few months

and the sun shines.

If I can just stay in my own home and do the things that

I enjoy doing and go peacefully at the end, that will be fine.

That's what I wish you.

-If I may.

-That's all I need.

-Yeah.

You would think people would look at her record and say,

"Come on, let's repay her."

But then it's the same with everything.

You don't actually get repaid

but just society itself should behave better.

'It's not just in how old people are cared for that there are problems.

'Many older people feel that they're not cared about.

'The shoving at bus stops because of their slowness

'and the names they get called.

'Coffin-dodgers indeed.'

I want to meet older people who are fed up with being

pushed around and are doing something about it.

PRODUCER: Where are we going, June?

We're going to see Frank who is an ex-taxi driver

and is someone who feels strongly about the way older

people are disregarded, not noticed, pushed out of the way.

We're just a nuisance. A pain in the neck, a pain in the butt.

And we're not. We still have a lot to offer.

I did a little exercise, coming here today.

I use a walking stick, a fold-up walking stick, because I have a bit of a back problem.

So the first bus I get on is full.

So I'm getting on with a stick and I'm wobbling and I'm looking and pleading

but they're all looking away like they haven't noticed me.

-And I'm going, "Excuse me, I'm here."

-Yeah.

-Like that.

But even in seats that are marked up,

"Please give for disabled and elderly people." Didn't matter.

-No.

-but in our day we didn't need those signs.

We were brought up to do it anyway.

I mean, you never read about old people being beaten up,

you know, when you were young.

Absolutely not. Our streets were as safe as anything.

-Our houses were as safe as anything.

-Exactly. How do we change?

-How do we...?

-Can we change? I don't know. Can we?

It's a scary thought, isn't it? To go backwards.

My first thought was, you know, you can't turn the clock back.

-But we've got to change.

-We've got to change somehow.

-How much do I owe you, Joe?

-No, it's fine, June.

-It's on the house.

-That's very good of you.

-Pleasure to have you.

That's proper East End hospitality, isn't it?

What do you think about the way people treat the older generation?

That's what we've been talking about here.

-It's just a lack of respect.

-It's just general respect.

-You ain't got to think about it, it's just common courtesy.

-Yes.

-Please and thank you cost nothing but can go a long way.

-Exactly.

But you've got, we must keep trying though.

It's got to, it should come to an end because it's just crazy.

We've got to go or we'll be late.

-We'll be late for our gig, won't we, June?

-Yeah.

I don't know, it's your gig. It's not my gig.

-Are we going to have a knees-up?

-Sort of, yeah.

-Thank you very much.

'Frank is a member of a group of pensioners called The Zimmers,

'which formed as a musical protest against the way older people are treated by society.'

-This is the theatre.

-The Courtyard.

-The Courtyard. Yeah.

# What the world needs now is love Sweet love

# No, not just for some

# But for everyone. #

MUSIC: "(You Gotta) Fight For Your Right (To Party!)" by Beastie Boys

# Woke up late for school man You don't wanna go

# You ask your mom please But she still says no

# You miss two classes and no homework

# You gotta fight for your right to party. #

So you come on at the beginning as bumbly old...

-Bumbly old crumblies. And then shock them.

-Is that what they think of you?

-"So this is what you think of me," you're saying, are you?

-Yeah.

We want the young people to realise that they're gonna be old once,

at some time, and they should treat us how they want to be treated,

but how do you get that message across?

-"The Zimmers!"

-THEY LAUGH

Just because our bodies are old, it don't mean...

Don't let your body get old! You've got to lift your tummy up.

Look at that! Look at that!

I do feel that so many children don't have grandparents,

they don't grow up with older people, therefore they don't grow up

admiring them, loving them, having an affinity with them, do they?

-That's right.

-I wonder if we could rent a granny or grandad?

RHYTHMIC STAMPING

Sing it!

# We will, we will rock you!

# You've got blood on your face You big disgrace

# Waving your banner all over the place

# We will, we will rock you

# We will, we will rock you. #

WHOOPING

JUNE LAUGHS

'The best way of complaining is the way that The Zimmers do it.'

Because it's funny.

And it's much more telling if you can say things

and be amusing about them than if you whinge.

Whingeing gets you nowhere. The ears close, people turn away.

'I love what The Zimmers stand for but I want to understand

'why it's come to this.

'Why have we lost respect for older people?

'I believe the break-up of the family means many children have lost

'contact with their grandparents

'and young and old have become separated.'

PRODUCER: What are all these photos?

A lot of them are of my childhood, yes,

and a few that I have of my grandfather and grandmother.

And that is the youngest

that I was when I was photographed with my grandfather.

Grandfather was born in 1858

and he was the youngest of 13 children.

He decided that the railway had suddenly become very prominent

and he decided he would go and work in the railway.

He was my role model really, because he was such a good man.

You know, my role model wasn't a footballer or a popstar,

he was this good man who was sort of my idea, almost, of God.

In those days, white-haired man in the sky.

I don't think that way now but that is how I saw him, as goodness.

Yes, I think it's very sad that children are growing up,

a lot of children are growing up who never know their grandparents.

Gradually it has become wider and wider,

this gulf between younger and the older people.

And I don't know, really, how one will bridge it.

I'm beginning to think the absence of grandparents from the family

is a large part of the problem we are facing.

So where in this country can I find grandparents

living with their children?

-Hello! Come in!

-Mrs Patel?

I'm Miss Patel.

'I've been invited to dinner at the Patel family house near Wembley.'

-I've come to supper.

-THEY LAUGH

-You're very welcome.

-Thank you.

That's a lovely smell.

'Granny, known as Ba, is upstairs in her room.'

Are we disturbing you?

-No, no.

-No. Come in.

-Thank you.

If you just light these.

Granny Ba offers to give me a blessing.

BELL RINGS

THEY RECITE BLESSING

Thank you.

Well, we're very interested in your family, your whole extended family.

The fact that you are the head of the family, as it were,

and very well respected.

-And you like it here?

-Yeah.

-Too much.

-Too much?

-I'd say this, you can never be too happy.

-Too happy, yeah.

Ba's been living here for 32 years, ever since her husband died,

and she has helped to bring up her grandchildren.

It's dinner time and Ba is always served first.

Usually, what we do, my daughter and then my wife would give to my mum.

-So she would be served first.

-What a wonderful thing!

What respect!

Anyway, bon appetit, I would say.

No problem. You can have it.

Bon appetit.

I think a lot of people go to her for advice as well

because she is the head of the family.

It's just that respect. They will ask her advice on what to do.

I wouldn't ever kind of leave them behind, if that makes sense.

So, like, for example, I'm guessing when I get older,

when I get married, I'd like to actually have my own place

and live with my wife for a little while.

But if it ever gets down the line where these guys become too old

and they need a little bit of care, I would happily tell them, "Come and move in with me."

I would never put them in a care home.

'Sitting here with the Patel extended family,

'I really believe this was intended to be the way that we should live.

'After dinner, I find that Shelpa is a social worker who works with the elderly.'

You do come across quite a lot of the elderly that are isolated.

They don't have regular visitors.

I always think about my grandma in that position and I think,

"OK. Could I see my grandma like this?"

So I do make that extra effort to think, "Let's take them out."

-Bye-bye.

-Thanks so much for blessing me.

-Ah!

-I know it'll work.

-Have I still got my red dot?

-THEY LAUGH

'Granny Ba's a very lucky woman.

'As I leave the Patel household, I know this family idyll

'is much rarer these days and I don't see how we can bring it back.'

I'm really impressed. I think you're a marvellous family.

I receive some news from Enda.

'Looking after her husband, my former co-star John Barden,

'has been getting a bit too much for her.'

It's just over five years now since John had his stroke.

At last, Enda has taken three weeks off.

'John is in a local nursing home for some temporary respite care

'so Enda can have the break she needs.'

-How do you feel, you know, with John being in here?

-I really miss him.

I actually, he's only been in five days

and I feel as if he's still in the house at night-time.

I really miss him but I have to have this break.

I know I have to have this break.

But it's only for a couple of weeks, so...

-But I miss him.

-Yes.

Miss the old bird.

-Are you bored?

-No.

-Oh, thank you!

You just listening, yes? Yes?

Yeah.

Yeah.

-I dunno.

-THEY LAUGH

'To me, there's a time to live and a time to die

'and I don't want to be resuscitated beyond my natural span.

'How does John feel about being revived back to life,

'when he is so dependent on his wife and where her independence is utterly restricted?'

Enda, have you ever talked to John

about what he feels about being resuscitated?

John, when we do ask you the question

that when you became unconscious when you had the stroke,

do you regret that you weren't taken then?

What would you have preferred?

-Would you have preferred not to have come back?

-Yeah. No!

-No?

-No.

-You're glad that you've come through OK?

-Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

-Yeah. OK.

Well, darling, I'll be off now.

I'm sorry I live so far away.

See you. Bye, darl.

Well, I'll see you as soon as I can.

Thank you.

It's good that John says he's happy, despite his condition.

But for myself, I've come to a decision

about what I want to happen should I ever become incapacitated.

I would not want to not be able to talk.

Imagine not being able to talk when you're a talkative person.

I would not want, at my age, 85, to want to try to learn to walk,

to be fed, to have my toilet dealt with by somebody else,

if you understand what I mean.

This is going to start a trend. It'll all be in the papers.

"Do not resusicate."

-It's so nice that you don't think, "How peculiar."

-Not at all.

Not at all. I totally agree with what you're saying.

-Once your time is here...

-No eccentricity there, due to my age.

-Not at all. Not at all.

-There's a lot, I promise you!

-Thank you very much.

-You're more than welcome.

-What you got there, Mum?

-I've had it made.

-What does it say?

-I can't read it without my glasses.

-"Do not resuscitate." Oh, right.

"Do not resuscitate." Oh.

It's no good having the thing in the drawer

so you want it with prominence.

-Cos you've already got the form thing.

-Yes.

But that's no good, it's in the filing cabinet.

Shall I put it on you?

If you can, if you've got delicate enough fingers cos I'm finding it rather difficult.

-It's more if you can see.

-Exactly, that's the problem.

-All right. We won't go into that.

-Shall I get some glasses?

-No.

-Lovely!

-It should be diamond encrusted!

-It looks like an animal's ID.

-What do you mean it looks like an animal?

-A dog tag.

-Oh.

You could have it tattooed on the back of your neck.

-I don't fancy a tattoo.

-Or on your heart.

THEY LAUGH

"Do not resuscitate." Oh, OK.

When you reach the ripe old age that Mother has,

you get to a stage of life where you probably think,

"Actually, if I have a stroke or a heart attack,

"I might be severely disabled afterwards and not want to go on."

PRODUCER: I think you two are trying very hard to let your mother go.

-Yes. Yes, we would. Yeah.

-I'm not sure you're capable.

-One doesn't know until one's in that situation.

-You never know.

We are aware that she has always, always said,

"I don't want to be dependent. I don't want to be resuscitated."

She's said that for as long as I can remember.

-Have you got a dictionary?

-Is it spelt wrong?

-I dunno.

-Have you got a dictionary?

-Could be. Let's look it up on the iPhone.

-Well, I didn't check it. Has it got too many Ss?

-Sus...

It's got a C instead of a T!

-Oh!

-Resusicate! Resusicate.

-Resusicate.

They might think that means, don't let die!

-They might think you're not able to spell!

-Well yes, I didn't check it.

It is spelt wrongly.

-So it says, "Do not rusticate."

-THEY LAUGH

-That's quite amusing.

-Now we've got a dilemma.

-It's quite amusing!

SHE LAUGHS

'I've reached a decision about my own future.

'I'm also starting to come to conclusions about how

'we could improve the way we treat older people in this country.

'I think that maybe children growing up with their grandparents

'could be part of the solution to making a more caring society.'

That way you would learn to have a sympathy,

a rapport with older people.

You don't think they're a load of old rubbish, you know.

You don't think they're past their sell-by date

and you don't wonder why they're occupying space on the earth.

You, you, they are part of your life.

The problem is, one in five children have no contact with

their grandparents and many children hardly see older people at all.

There are some people who are trying to fill the gap by bringing

the young and old together more.

A parent of two young children called Angela has come up

with an extraordinary idea called Aggie's Grannies.

Young children are taken to care homes to play with older residents.

He likes it, doesn't he?

-Hello.

-THEY LAUGH

Why did this idea come to you?

Because my children,

they've got some grandparents here but all my family are in Australia.

I felt it was sad that they had no contact with elderly people

so I thought I'd start volunteering in an old people's home

and I would take my children in and they just loved it.

They loved it and so did the residents of the home.

And so I thought that I should just do it with other children.

I would like to know if you think that this scheme will help

children to relate to older people.

Since taking my little girl, Evelyn, who is four now,

into care homes and nursing homes,

because when we've been walking up the street

and Evelyn saw an elderly gentleman get in a taxi and she said,

"Mum, we have to look after the old people, don't we?"

And I know that's because she has old people in her life now.

This is a solution.

-Now, we haven't found anything really.

-Any solution... I know.

This is why I feel so strongly about it because it is a solution

and if you get them young,

you get them when they love attention.

And then you get them used to being around elderly people

then they accept them like they did before, you know, in generations before.

It starts here and it goes on through school

and the community is in the care home, not separate and segregated.

-Do you enjoy this?

-I do.

-It's different, isn't it?

-That's right.

You get some contact with young people.

-He's very fond of you!

-He is.

-What do you think of this scheme?

-Nice.

-Very nice.

-Do you?

'It's nearly the end of my journey so I call my family together to tell

'them what I've learnt on the way and what conclusions I've come to.

'My granddaughter Katie is there.'

How do you feel having grandparents has affected you?

Do you know what effect it's had on your life?

I feel I respect my grandparents just because of the way Mum

and Dad brought me up and how we see you often.

'I tell them about the scheme Aggie's Grannies.'

The last place I visited was a care home

and there was a group of old ladies and gentlemen sitting outside

with very small children and they all looked very happy.

You know, the old people were smiling.

They weren't looking like that with no life in their faces.

You know, they were alight and they were smiling

because there was youth there, something to enjoy.

So how would this make an impact? Why would this make a difference?

Well, because from birth, well not quite birth, from young,

young childhood, they would be used to older people.

They wouldn't see them, I think you mentioned the word "aliens", as aliens.

They would see them as these rather pleasant people who are quite interesting.

'If we could roll out schemes like this then maybe,

'just maybe,

'the next generation will be able to develop the same respect

'for their elders that I gained when I was growing up.'

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